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irithnova · 6 months ago

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This is a repost but I've made some edits, it was originally in response to an ask I received about how I personally go about making Siberia OCs (as a complete foreigner) and how I portray their relationship with Russia

Start of post:

I know that you're probably aware but for anyone who stumbles upon this post, I'm not Northern Asian or Siberian myself. I'm just someone who's interest/hobby is researching Northern Asian history and culture (started with just Mongolia, my interest also extends to Central Asia) which started when I was around 13/14? So please keep that in mind. This is a post written by an outsider (with the perspectives of Northern Asians taken into account of course), for other outsiders.

If I'm being quite honest, Hetalia Siberia OCs in particular are quite a... Niche corner of the Hetalia fandom. Especially in the anglophone/Western fandom. I'd say they're more popular in Russian speaking country personification communities (not always specifically Hetalia) purely because of the obvious - Siberia is a part of Russia. Unfortunately I do not speak Russian, nor am I really familiar with the Russian speaking hetalia fandom or country personification circles. However I have spoken to Northern Asian folk who are a tad more familiar with these circles than I am, and have come to find that even then, people who post Siberia personification OCs are few and far between, and those who do, post them very rarely and there's little else of these characters other than once in a blue moon art.

In the Western/English speaking fandom, as I've said before, there's really not a lot of us. Most representations of Siberian hetalia OCs usually come down to sparse dottings of fanart across different sites such as Tumblr, Deviantart, and Instagram. I am not on the hetalia amino so I wouldn't know but I highly doubt there are many, if any, Siberia OCs posted on there. I frequent hetalia twitter, particularly amongst North Asia (by that I mean Mongolia) adjacent posters, who are mainly Japanese. However it seems as if Mongolia is the furthest North most will go. So the circles I'm personally aware of (well not really circles as there's not a lot of us in the English speaking fandom) that do post about Siberia OCs are mainly here on tumblr, instagram, and I guess some rare art posted on Deviantart.

Honestly I don't think I can really recommend someone in these circles that I'm aware of (other than @peonycats as we developed a lot of these OCs together along with a lot of research of course) in terms of writing their relationships with Russia respectfully or writing respectful OCs in general for quite a few reasons:

Some of these creators don't post their OCs frequently enough for me to pass a judgement on/have become inactive

I don't know some of them personally, so again, cannot pass any judgement

Some creators genuinely have really insensitive portrayals of Siberian groups relationships with Russia

I am aware of certain creators who have excused racism against Northern Asians and others who have defended the Russian state's mistreatment of them (yes, despite posting about Northern Asians). I'm not giving out specific names but I'm not going to recommend them either

This isn't me trying to toot my own horn when it comes to hetalia Siberia OCs as despite my long standing interest, I want to reiterate that I am not from there. But to answer your question on how I would personally represent them/how I'd approach representing them from an outsiders POV (I guess this could apply to other country personification communities too such as countryhumans because of the common theme but I've only ever been in hetalia so,):

I think part of the question can be answered with the post you are referring to. It is vital to understand the nature and history of why Siberian groups are a part of Russia in the first place - colonisation. And it is just as vital to understand and acknowledge the effects of colonisation on such groups and the ongoing mistreatment and injustices they face under the Russian state. Without this in mind, representations of Siberian groups' relationships with Russia end up being tone deaf and one dimensional at best. At worst, orientalist caricatures and/or colonisation apologia.

This does take a lot of reading and research. Not just on the aforementioned topics, but also on orientalist depictions and stereotypes that are associated with Northern Asians. It's all good to be knowledgeable on how the colonisation of Siberia took place and ongoing injustices indigenous Siberians face, but that with no understanding of racist and exoticised stereotypes - a majority of which being a result of colonisation and an overall eurocentric outlook on "unsettled" peoples (putting "unsettled" in quotes here because the concept of a people being unsettled is in itself a eurocentric concept that was used to justify colonisation and the concept of "virgin land" that I talked about in my previous post), still results in insensitive depictions, both overall as characters and especially with their relationship with Russia. It's no good touting facts about how the Sakha people were colonised but then make up headcanons about how Russia had to "teach" Sakha to "behave" (this is a real example I've seen).

That being said, whilst it is obligatory that those topics are read about and applied accordingly, I also believe giving them agency is just as important. I don't want to say "putting too much emphasis on the colonisation aspect" but rather, emphasis on the colonisation and ongoing injustices without giving them a level of agency can also result in insensitive depictions. Siberian groups did and continue to fight/push back against the Russian state and it is just as important that their efforts and diligence against the face of their oppressor is acknowledged. It is correct to acknowledge that they are victims of Russian imperialism, but it is also correct to give them agency and depict them giving Russia pushback. Otherwise, this sort of portrayal diminishes the vast efforts Siberian groups have gone through and continue to go through against a much more powerful nation, and you end up with a bunch of OCs who's entire characterisations consists of merely being a punching bag for Russia.

On the other hand, and this is a depiction I've seen: there is such a thing as tokenising Siberian groups solely in order to signal to people how much you hate Russia. In this way, Siberian groups are depicted only as tools for the original poster to vocalise their distaste of Russia, with little exploration of their relationship with Russia outside of this and frankly, little exploration of them as characters and their history/culture overall other than "lol guys look they're trolling Russia!!!1" (and this is on the rare occasion that they are even talked about by such creators). I have absolutely no problem depicting them trolling Russia or conspiring to ruin Russia's day or something because we all know he deserves it, but this should not be the sole way in which such groups are ever brought up - if they are even talked about in the first place. I'm not saying to depict their relations with Russia as only doom and gloom and I do think the concept of them trolling him or annoying him is funny, but when such groups are only brought up in order to show them pwning Russia and nothing more, it, 1) runs the risk of downplaying the severity of the mistreatment they go through 2) runs the risk of these OCs not having any character outside of their relationship and interactions with Russia 3) can even give off the impression that Russia is the victim of their bad behaviour rather than the other way around.

It's even worse if offensive stereotypes are used in these depictions. Whilst Greenland is not a part of Siberia, groups in Greenland and Siberia are in many ways related not just through history and culture but also in the ways in which they are stereotyped. I've seen a depiction in which it seemed as if the creator was acknowledging that indigenous Greenland groups are mistreated, but to combat this they portrayed Greenland as being a violent, unruly drunkard that "abused" Denmark all the time, but it's okay because Denmark deserved it. Not only is an offensive stereotype of indigenous Greenlanders being used in this "look at Greenland owning Denmark!" portrayal, but Denmark is almost seen as a victim of Greenland's bad behaviour rather than the other way round. This is why I said that it is so important to learn about offensive stereotypes that are associated with Northern Asian folk, because you can be knowledgeable on how they are mistreated but still create insensitive depictions if you are not familiar with racist stereotypes. Nothing wrong with depicting Siberian groups giving Russia pushback, or depicting them annoying or trolling him, but please don't fall into using offensive stereotypes to do so and do not solely use these groups as a tool to display your hatred of Russia - that in itself is dehumanising.

When I say that "I'm not saying to depict their relations with Russia as only doom and gloom", that certainly doesn't mean portray them as being in love with Russia with little acknowledgement of ongoing injustices. Ships are a tricky enough subject in the hetalia fandom because of the nature of the content, however it's important to be sensitive if you are portraying an indigenous and settler relationship, especially if the colonised are still a colonised people with no independent state of their own and are "autonomous regions" that are a part of the coloniser nation state. I will not speak on Siberians who may choose to do this as this is their lived experience (though, I have not come into contact with any so far that do so - and those I have talked to about this topic have shown great distaste towards these types of depictions), but if you are an outsider who chooses to do this you seriously need to be careful (speaking as an outsider).

I cannot tell you what to ship or what not to ship. But I can sure as hell tell you that I have seen depictions of Sakha (for example) being portrayed as a woman who is infatuated/in love with Russia, who has "forgiven" Russia for everything he did, and who selflessly does things for him. And I can't say that the Sakha people I have talked to are impressed with this portrayal.

It's even worse when you consider that the whole "Sakha woman selflessly in love with a Russian man" is literal colonisation apologia:

There is an overglorified myth promoted of a Sakha woman called Abakayade selflessy marrying a Russian settler by the name of Semyon Deshnev, whereas in reality she was forcibly converted and married to him. The picture of the statue I linked above is colonial apologia, that is supposed to represent the "love" between the natives and settlers.

I myself do not ship any Siberian indigenous group with Russia and I'm not planning on doing so. All I can say is to tread lightly, and don't push out flimsy half-baked portrayals without thoroughly thinking about it considering the steep power imbalance between the indigenous and the settlers, especially amidst the recent and ongoing disproportionate mobilisation of indigenous peoples in the invasion of Ukraine. How I see it anyways, there are much higher stakes when shipping an indigenous group and it's settler vs two nations who have a long history of warfare with each other like France and England, or at least two independant nations. I, as an outsider, personally would not romanticise or make a lovey dovey relationship between an indigenous group and the settler group period - especially as I am not indigenous in any sense and when it comes to Siberian indigenous, those I have talked to so far from this region seem to unanimously dislike such portrayals.

This point kind of links to my previous one, but I would not portray a Siberian group and Russia's relationship as the Siberian group being some sort of helper or even something of a mom friend - a "rock to lean on" in Russia's life who "keeps Russia in check". I have seen this portrayal with Sakha, Kazakhstan and even Belarus. It's already quite odd to depict the colonised comforting the coloniser. However it gets a little more problematic when you realise that the colonised are almost being portrayed as accessories of Russia/ enthusiastic bearers of emotional labour for Russia. I have spoken to a Northern Asian who is more familiar with Russian country personification communities and they've seen a portrayal that unfortunately, fits that description almost perfectly.

It's important to portray their relationship with Russia as rounded and with both sides having equal say and shown to be fully developed characters in their own rights, though this applies more specifically to the Siberian OC in the relationship as they are the ones who are often reduced to accessories in their relationship with Russia. By this I mean that depictions of their relationship with Russia centre around Russia's feelings and perspectives with little thought put into their feelings and perspectives. They simply act as sidekicks or side characters to Russia rather than fully fledged out characters with their own agency and opinions. Further, it's pretty egregious to show the Siberian group as acting as comforters to Russia who willingly and even enthusiastically partake in engaging in large levels of emotional labour for Russia to "keep Russia sane" when Siberian groups have historically been exploited by Russia and continue to be exploited by Russia to this very day. From fur tax, to forced conversions and Russification, to nuclear testing sites that resulted in poor health conditions for those who inhabited the area, to the disproportionate mobilisation of indigenous Siberians in the invasion of Ukraine - it hasn't stopped. This isn't to say that you're not allowed to depict a lighter side to their relationship, but to boil it down to "Sakha/Buryatia/Chukotka etc. are fiercely protective of Russia/selflessly goes out of their way to help Russia/act as Russia's rock to lean on" is very... Questionable, considering the circumstances.

Bit of a side note but in general you should not be treating Siberian OCs as exoticised accessories. Of course there is nothing wrong with admiring their clothing or jewellery or arts, however it becomes a problem when outsiders use these aspects of their culture to mystify such groups and subsequently view them through an exoticised lense - and so they are reduced merely to pretty objects for outsiders to ogle, and not groups of real people. Because of how niche Siberia OCs are, some may think that drawing a Siberian in a pretty headdress or posting "Siberian aesthetics" and calling it a day is enough to be deemed as knowledgeable or sensitive on the culture in question despite other actions showing otherwise, because there's not really anyone to call them out on their questionable treatment of such cultures. But just know, it's not acceptable to reduce such cultures to merely aesthetics, real research and most importantly respect is the priority (I have unfortunately interacted with people who would repost indigenous Siberian clothing and aesthetics for example but then at the same time, justify/dismiss their mistreatment under the Russian state.)

On an (almost) final note, I would never portray Russia as being a father or even teacher to any Siberian group - period. I've talked about this in a previously very strongly worded post, however portraying Russia as a father to any Siberian group holds many questionable and downright offensive connotations. First of all, these groups existed before Russian colonisation, they had their own unique histories and cultures before Russian settlers arrived. These groups have histories that go back further than the very concept of Russia. This sort of paternalistic outlook is often used by settlers around the globe and colonisation apologists - that the groups they colonised had no culture and no real tangible history before their colonisers arrived, and that the coloniser in question acted almost as a parent and/or teacher to the colonised, lending them a generous hand to "civilise" and "enlighten" the "barbarous" indigenous people. This kind of portrayal of a Siberian group's relationship with Russia is misguided at best and colonisation apologia at worst. Siberian history did not start when Russians arrived, culture was not gifted to them by Russia.

Finally (can you tell I'm a professional yapper?), this is about portraying 2P!Russia or the "evil side" of Russia as... The Asian/Siberian part of Russia. This goes far beyond a mere "disrespectful" portrayal of Russia's relationship with Siberian groups. I'm going to insert an excerpt here on an up and coming post of mine that centres around how anti-Mongolian sentiment manifests, however anti-Mongolian and anti-Siberian sentiment often overlap because they are Northern Asian groups,

Brief summary of what oriental despotism is:

Oriental despotism is the theory that Asian societies are more inclined/prone to authoritarianism than European societies. It is a eurocentric view which paints Asian civilisations as a monolith and ignores complex power structures and nuances in favour of oversimplifying them as simply being authoritarian/having an extremely strong centralised and most importantly "despotic" (basically, backwards) rule.

"...Russia's weirdness and antisocial behaviour when compared to other European characters being blamed solely on Mongolia/Asiatic influences in Russian culture is the theory of oriental despotism rearing its ugly head even if people are not aware that they are doing it.

This next point not only talks about Mongolia but the indigenous Siberians of Russia. I have seen people make 2p!Russia (AKA "evil" Russia) Asian or represent Siberia because:

1)They want to show the Mongol/Tatar influence/side of Russia

2)They want to show the Siberian side of Russia

Considering 2p Hetalia characters are often portrayed as the "dark side" or "evil side" of nations I don't think I need to explain why this is racist, especially after the explanation of what oriental despotism is

In the case of the Siberians I'd argue it is even more egregious to do this. Siberia is a part of Russia because of Russian imperialism/colonisation. Many indigenous Siberian people were killed, their languages and way of lives close to destroyed or destroyed period, and are being disproportionately mobilised by Russia in Russia's invasion of Ukraine. In fact, Siberian soldiers, especially Buryats who are a Mongolic people, are being scapegoated for the brunt of Russia's war crimes in Ukraine.

Pope Francis himself scapegoated the non-(ethnic) Russian soldiers for a majority of Russia's war crimes in Ukraine:

“Generally, the cruellest are perhaps those who are of Russia but are not of the Russian tradition, such as the Chechens, the Buryats and so on,”

From:

...So not only is Russia being called a continuation of the Mongol Empire, with articles titled "Putin Khan" being published without anyone batting an eye, and with a Siberian/Mongolic ethnic minority being scapegoated for Russia's war crimes despite them being victims of Russian imperialism and an ethnic cleansing, do you understand how insensitive it is to make the "dark/2p Russia" a representation of Siberia or the Mongol/Tatar influence on Russia?

To note: It's not just Buryats being disproportionately mobilised.

To use Russia's indigenous Siberian population as a representation of 2p/dark/evil Russia is so unfair it beggars belief. Those people are victims of Russian colonisation, yet their "despotic, Asiatic" ways will be used by racists to scapegoat Russia's bad behaviour onto, despite again, being victims of Russian colonisation and imperialism themselves.

Yes, Russia colonised you, forced you out of your traditional ways of life and destroyed the use of your language. Yes, the Kremlin is unfair to you and you live in the most deprived and poverty stricken areas of Russia. Yes, you're being disproportionately mobilised in Russia's invasion of Ukraine. But you committed the crime of ruining the whiteness of Russia simply by existing there - your despotic Asiatic ways is one of the reasons why Russia is so backwards, you are at fault for the brunt of the warcrimes committed in Ukraine because you are inherently more "barbaric" than white Russians.

"Confronted with a world ruled by the settler, the native is always presumed guilty" (Frantz Fannon)""

That's all I have to say on that topic for now. I decided to include it as although it's technically kind of a portrayal of Russia's relationship with Siberian groups, as the Siberian groups are all blended into one and then made the "evil" part of Russia. It's genuinely one of the worst interpretations I've seen of Russia and Siberian groups in a hetalia context.

Oh and, this should be obvious. Singular Siberia OCs (as in, "Here is my aph Siberia OC who represents THE WHOLE of Siberia and is the amalgamation of EVERY SINGLE SIBERIAN GROUP INTO ONE!!") will always be offensive, period. I talk about this in a previously strongly worded post and the post mainly centers around this point. What's funny is, this post was part of the reason of why someone thought it was acceptable to harass me with fake accounts on, as they (not Siberian or even Northern Asian) argued people should be "able to do what they fucking want <3" (actual quote) in terms of depicting singular Siberia OCs. Meanwhile, actual Siberians agreed with the post. So, there's that. Again, this seems to be an acceptable interpretation to some which I would find funny if it wasn't so... Stupid? It's like making a singular Africa OC. It completely undermines the diversity of the groups that inhabit Siberia. I've seen people justify this kind of depiction by saying "well all of these cultures were killed by Russia/are dead now anyways so that means it makes sense for them all to be portrayed through (1) personification" I'm sorry but 1) So many of these cultures are still alive and kicking, they most definitely aren't "all dead" 2) Who the hell are you as an outsider to declare a culture dead? Especially when there's evidence to the contrary?

The worst singular Siberia I've seen was an abomination of the singular Siberia OC and "Russia as a father to Siberian groups" mashed into one. It went like "Russia was walking along the empty snowy plains of Siberia and found a little girl there who was the representation of Siberia and he raised her and is partly her biological father". Let's break this down:

Strike 1: The concept of Terra Nullius or "Virgin Land" - Siberia was not an empty no mans land for settlers to roam around in and lay claim on, it has been the home of indigenous Siberian groups for thousands of years

Strike 2: Undermines the brutality of the colonisation of Siberia and the atrocities that took place

Strike 3: Singular Siberia OC

Strike 4: Russia being this personifications biological father and the father who raised her. This has... Extremely disturbing connotations, especially on the biological father part when you consider the sexual violence indigenous Siberian women were subjected to. This is also why I bitched about that interpretation I saw of Sakha being portrayed as a woman who is hopelessly in love with Russia.

Here's that strongly worded post in question, yes I do sound like a grade A bitch here but you would not believe the crap I've seen that lead up to me making this post:

What's most important in depicting Siberian groups' relationships with Russia is by seeking out Siberian perspectives online whether it's through forums or videos, and if it's possible - asking them directly. You cannot make an OC that is a representative of a nation/group of people without centering and incorporating the aforementioned peoples voices, especially if the OC in question is a representative of an indigenous group because frankly, there are higher stakes with such depictions. I understand with certain groups it's harder to directly reach out to them, whether it's because there's not very many of them or for other reasons. In the meantime though, that should not stop you from doing reading and research, and getting into contact with other groups and asking their perspectives.

TL;DR

It's important to do research on the colonisation of Siberia and the ongoing injustices Siberians face at the hands of the Russian state in order to depict a sensitive portrayal of a Siberian group's relationship with Russia. Research should also be done on racist and exoticised stereotypes Northern Asian folk face in order to avoid such stereotypes when depicting such relationships with Russia. They should be acknowledged as victims of Russian imperialism but they should also be given agency and should also be depicted as giving pushback so as to acknowledge the efforts Siberian groups make in order to fight back against mistreatment of the Russian state. I would not personally portray a Siberian group entering into a romantic relationship with Russia as the Siberians I have spoken to are uncomfortable with this kind of depiction, if you choose to do so however as an outsider - be careful.

Siberia OCs should not be treated as accessories or enthusiastic bearers of emotional labour to Russia and should first and foremost be fully fleshed out characters with their own thoughts, feelings and personality outside of Russia before depicting their relationship with Russia so as to avoid unknowingly portraying them as accessories to Russia. I would not portray Russia as being a father or "teacher" to any Siberian group as the former is blatantly historically incorrect and offensive, and both are concepts that are used by settlers and colonisation apologists alike ("the indigenous had no culture or tangible history before we came, we acted as a teacher/parent to them in order to civilise them). Singular Siberia OCs that are meant to represent every single Siberian group in one personification will always be offensive. When making Siberia OCs and depicting their relationships with Russia, research and seeking out Northern Asian perspectives is vital.

My personal interpretation:

Honestly, I think the most positive feeling Siberian groups feel for Russia is tolerance. The baseline emotion they have for him is dislike/distrust. I see Russia as kind of being... Fake nice to them if that makes sense? Not in a two faced sense but I think he likes them on a very surface level as of course they are a part of Russia so he will include them in on things/have groupchats with them/visit sometimes but it's kind of like. Beyond that he isn't so nice in the sense of actually taking their complaints and criticisms to heart and has an "everything is fine ^J^" mentality to things. So many places in the far East of Russia are extremely neglected because the Russian state does not care to improve living conditions for such places - Tuva being a prime example. I think Russia usually gives more attention to regions that he can get something out of, like Sakha with his rich mineral reserves.

Sometimes for PR purposes he'll tokenise Northern Asian groups to tout himself as being a #rich and #diverse nation like "wow, I am such a diverse nation and we treat our ethnic minorities/indigenous groups as one of our own" and "our ethnic minorities are not victims unlike American SJW ones" (actual shit I've seen Russians say). Basically, he'll use them to big himself up all the while his treatment of them is questionable at best. I also think Russia orientalises them to an extent and will sometimes refer to them as "fierce warriors" or some other bullshit like that (again, actual shit I've seen Russians say) and usually doesn't really take their complaints seriously or kind of brushes it off, if not that he'll minimise their complaints. A lot of them usually bite their tongue and roll their eyes at this.

There are quite a few (like Sakha for example) I think who go full on lawyer mode as a way to give Russia pushback (this forces Russia to respond essentially) but also I do think it's funny when they just conspire to ruin Russia's day somehow or troll him/are snappy or petty to him. Basically, they only really tolerate him at best and see right through his childish/innocent/friendly demeanour. Not to say that there aren't lighter moments between them or that every interaction between them ever is antagonistic but yeah. Hm I don't think they're as...Afraid of him as a lot of other nations are? Not that they don't ever fear him or fear the consequences of questioning his actions, but moreso that well - they're a part of Russia of course and so are more used to him. Less fear going around more "oh god what's he going to do this time".

#hetalia world stars #hetalia world series #hetalia world twinkle #historical hetalia #hetalia siberia #aph siberia #hws siberia #aph russia #hws russia #hetalia russia #ivan brag

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