#paimon redemption arc

[annachum]

Paimon : What does my son Stolas see in that pesky, loud little imp by the way?

Blitzo : * defends Stolas and saves his ass multiple times and actually came to get Stolas' sibs and Octavia to warm up to him *

Paimon : You know what, I'll give him and his fellow executioners a chance because at least they can help my faction in fighting against my ex allies

Amethyst : I told you that Stolas and Blitzo's dynamic isn't that different to ours especially when we were younger, dearest.

[narwhalandchill]

RIGHTTT ohhh u put all of these examples into words so well too what the hell - the only point i would Really add here is another aspect of the liyue AQ that gets missed so easily which is.

yes, zhongli managed to trick ajax because the entire board was laid out from the beginning so that this would be possible. and yes he tricked us. but theres also Another group of very smart people whose plot he Completely had figured and thats the qixing. like. if the gnosis had been inside the exuvia. childe wouldve just straight up WON. he figured out why and how the qixing would act in an attempt to limit the fatuis activities and prevent him from reaching the exuvia and he just finessed that shit anyway💀💀💀 i love him

also another favorite for sure is how his intelligence shows itself in particular through his social skill and street smarts like just look at meropide! not only does he figure out how to make a daring escape to his soulmate sorry his other half sorry his narwhal but he 1) figures out the hidden rules of the system right away 2) gains trustworthy (like THATS the hard part dude!!!!) and loyal allies to assist him and 3) actively exploits the superstition around the breaking of the hidden rules to cover up his disappearance even better. like he was just casually gaming the ENTIRE system 😭😭

but yeah hes Always been smart as hell! and the only reason childe tends to take things at face value even if it comes back to bite him in the end isnt bc hes dumb or gullible its simply a conscious CHOICE he makes because he cannot be Bothered to deal with all that scheming bullshit upfront. like its not worth his time or effort to overcomplicate every single matter like that. if ppl turn out to be lying or scheming, hes just confronting them upfront once its relevant.

my man skips the harbingers' powerplays and mindgames not out of inability to mastermind schemes just as elaborate as theirs but simple disinterest and disregard for the kind of methodology and mindset it would take. its something childe considers beneath himself, not something above his capability somehow. like Literally its just not a skill tree hes investing into lmao

anyway. 100% agree with Everything u said this was a lovely addition!!!!!

how are we feeling about this project amber update

assuming this is in relation to childe bc who the fuck else JWDJWJKDJKW anon im so sorry if not. also so so sorry for how out of hand this got. i am simply unwell about him.

But! Well. there certainly are thoughts

(obviously 4.6 datamine of arle SQ and her voicelines; This Will Not Spoil Anything Abt The Main SQ Plot, i only discuss the relevant parts. also some p Heavy negativity towards fanon ooc at the start youve been warned dont @ me)

(i mean i didnt even read anything of the SQ but The scene w childe so idek the main plot of the quest rly either lmao. tho go at ur own risk if u wanna check the dialogue out; its the 2nd quest log but it does hint at the greater story)

TLDR: how i feel abt his appearance in a vaccuum? quite solid despite the briefness, actually. accounting for the way fanon is 100% likely going to be reading into this and turning it into the Lets Infantilize Ajax Even More 2024 championship? conflicted.

in other words; a certified labyrinth warriors moment - theyve expanded on childes character in a very interesting and quite a compelling way and while i Do like the potential in what im seeing from hoyos end theyve also done it so that its going to be misinterpreted to hell and back by fanon so i kinda have an immediate jaded love-hate moment going on JJWJDKJDKJWJDWKJ

its literally just labyrinth warriors flashbacks - that event has some of my ALL TIME favorite insights into who ajax is and how he views the world and himself but when the event came out all everyone cared abt was to warp it into baby boy stuck in scawwy paper boy dungeon dehumanizes himself by calling himself a weapon and doesnt love himself he is such a sad trauma meowkitten 🥺🥺so yeah

bc like lets look at this properly for a bit; okay he went back to fontaine to look for skirk still somewhat injured and waa waa my 286 month infant baby cannot Make decisions like that!!!!!11! which is to say. i am tired of him getting this shit every time.

is it smart of him to get on the move immediately with just the bare minimum of rest? no. do i like that hes straining himself before proper recovery? not particularly no. do i feel the particular need to psychoanalyze this grown man and feared warrior whos 100% survived Way Worse in Way More Extreme Situations for it? hell fucking no.

while not at all the course of action a medical professional would approve of. from childes POV its perfectly logical hes priorizing going back for skirk when its literally the FIRST TIME shes showed up in like. a Decade. when hes been looking for her all this time are you kidding me 😭😭😭 but fanon must keep fanoning for their widdle baby girl so what does a hater like me know

anyway. seething and venting over im gonna try to avoid bringing up how much i hate this kinda infantilization of ajax now im sorry for bringing it up so much on ur innocent ask anon KJWDJKWKJDJDKWJKD. neutral discussion moment. i Promise

so it seems that theyre going for the pulcinella-is-shady-about-ajax (and prolly his family) angle for good and like. personally for me as long as the only real source of that claim was scara (a cynical edgelord who doesnt believe in non-exploitative human relationships, mind you) i was rather skeptical towards just instantly drawing that conclusion, but well. with the scene in arles AQ it appears to be sth theyre building towards

i actually really fucking loved that scene bc while theres outsider perspectives (scara obvi; and even arles line for him has that vibe. and ppl still take that shit face value 💀💀) and a lot of fandom assuming childes like. completely clueless and naive and ignorant towards the potential risks involved with trusting pulcinella. this is actually a very clever demonstration of quite the opposite? and showcasing how despite his aversion towards schemes and lies hes still intelligent and knows the kind of people hes dealing with when it comes to his fellow harbingers

like. childe has a negative opinion of arle based on what pulcinella has told him about her because at face value many of her deeds are in heavy conflict with his values of loyalty and family. and because he does not have the further context behind her actions and what the HotH under her is really like. Obviously hed hold a very hostile and wary view towards arlecchino

(ESPECIALLY when with all this biased intel hes still going to run into kids from the house!!! and then hes going wtf? these are good kids. what the hell is that knave doing with them??? blink twice if you need help i will start a civil war for yall like thats how he is with kids!!!!)

so YES. pulcinella has given him if not false then at least misleading intel based on the political tension between himself and arlecchino and the wider HotH. and childes taken that at face value! sure! he is close with pulcinella of course he would!

BUT. THEN. he returns to fontaine and seeks arlecchinos help looking for skirk. and observes her behavior and modus operandi for himself as well as the kids. does he go "nah she must be just hiding the crazy evil shit i would never distrust pulcinella" and leave it at that when reality doesnt completely match his expectations?

NO. because when offered the opportunity through the traveler asking about the HotH childe immediately capitalizes on the opportunity to prod for answers and see if pulcinella is lying to him!!!!

and hes so fucking smart with the way he does it too???? i LOVE his intelligence. the entire thing is so simple yet elegant; it Completely relies on his reputation as the kinda gullible harbinger whod Never scheme or hide Anything to indirectly affirm or deny his suspicions. he doesnt Need to Pretend to care about the possibility of arle betraying the kids bc he genuinely does!! and when she pushes back against the accusation he doesnt Need to fake admitting to her that well, actually, its all just rumors so he could be completely wrong. and so on. like he navigates the entire thing so effortlessly. and whats the end result?

childe has Confirmation of pulcinellas possible ulterior motives in action AND that arlecchino is a much more reliable ally than he initially assumed. all the while appearing as just The Straightforward 11th. like obviously id need to hear it voiced first to be sure but in text it v much gives the impression hes almost kinda just. playing up the threats towards arle and being "dumb" on Purpose?? to get the answers he wanted out of arle without appearing like hes fishing for anything particular. and i just hhhhhhhhhhh

i love when he does this so muchhhh!!!!!! 😭😭 he doesnt need to become some machiavellian schemer to be able to strategize !!!!!! he avoids scheming bc he Dislikes it not bc hes incapable of it like this has Always been the case Since Liyue AQ and i love whenever they show that side of himm . my Beloved

so anyway. while i do still think the like "pulcinella is bad and has his family hostage" is still kind of a generic plotline and i hope the writing regarding the whole thing wont ultimately turn out to be sth That simplified and black and white. its p clear theyre doing Something with pulcinellas motivations and as they are. im Really glad theyre letting it show that childes not just some completely passive party being manipulated in this all. he Is thinking abt this stuff and his position among the harbingers. ig we shall see where it goes - not the greatest fan of the concept still, but canon text supports it becoming a thing way more than when it was just scaras word we had for it. hope theyll surprise me positively w how they go about it!

then briefly for the rest uhh

also loved arle and childe just shittalking the rest of the harbingers it was amazing. i wasnt expecting this kinda dynamic between them at all but its great lmao. also i wanna see childe hang out w the HotH kids

as for project stuzha; so we dont really get anything solid on it other than being summoned back to snezhnaya for it is apparently a Big Deal. but still very interested. let my man have his endgame significance Trust

childes appearance was obviously v brief ultimately but that was clear from his leaked linecount to begin with - i am pretty satisfied with what they seem to have done w him. like its not The Best but also i wasnt expecting his lore to get some massive expansion in another harbingers SQ . the worst i feared was that it was just going to be a flashback of arle returning his vision which did Not happen so massive W. i am super hyped to hear this scene voice acted proper and happy to see him again, i really hope he gets to appear at least once more in an interlude or dains quest or something before going on hiatus again but idk if thats too much to ask LKKWJDJWDJWD

also: i am never changing my namecard after this patch drops. oh my godddddddd its So Fucking Beautiful 😭😭😭😭

But. Yeah. lots of good stuff. unfortunately lots of it will get misinterpreted and fanon will get obnoxious about it. but i still love getting to see him again and i am speedrunning that namecard day fucking one mutuals and/or followers in EU please add me (UID 711090267) ill need coop buddies for the world bosses

thank youuuuuuu for the ask i hope this monstrosity of a monologue doesnt scare u off 💀💀💀

[an-emovision]

𝓡𝓮𝓵𝓪𝓽𝓲𝓸𝓷𝓼𝓱𝓲𝓹 𝓗𝓮𝓪𝓭𝓬𝓪𝓷𝓷𝓸𝓷𝓼 - 𝓦𝓪𝓷𝓭𝓮𝓻𝓮𝓻

A/N: HDBHEIBFROIEBKMDF LOOK AT HIM LOOK AT MY BABYGIRL OH MY Warning(s): Mentions of violence(obviously), cursing ——————•°•✿•°•——————••——————•°•✿•°•——————

❀- Redemption arc my ass ❀- Ya'll see that shit eating grin? he'd spit in your face and call you a slur ❀- Anyway ❀- The relationship started out.. rocky to say the least. You two didnt necessarily hate each other anymore but there was still tension

❀- I mean you did beat his life long goal out of him... so yk ❀- When he first realized his feelings he immediately went to Nahida. Confused and slightly disgusted at his feelings he explained them to her ❀- She'd laugh as he asked her how to get rid of them ❀- "Quit laughing this is serious!" Embarrassment written across his features ❀- Nahida didn't have much experience in this field so she'd give him what little information she could. Small things like basic relationship advice ❀- You had loved him far before he realized he loved you though ❀- Of course you were a bit ashamed to admit you had a crush on the harbinger and Paimon absolutely ragged on you for it ❀- And really you thought you had gotten over it but the moment you saw him at Pardis Dhyai those feelings came rushing back again. ❀- Even after the fight you'd pace in your room as you contemplated his well being. When you expressed your worries to the god of wisdom she'd give a knowing smile as she assured you of his safety ❀- And once the irminsul incident was settled and he was now 'Wanderer' you'd tell him of your feelings and reluctantly he'd confess his own ❀- You loved him, and would often express it. Small kisses to the cheek or asking if you could hold his hand or hug him ❀- You always asked, it had been centuries since Wanderer allowed anyone to touch him so you made sure to be careful ❀- Though he'd never express it outwardly he loved you to and deeply appreciated how gentle you were with him in the beginning. he had no clue how romantic relationships worked ❀- As time went on he felt more comfortable with telling you that you didnt have to ask to touch him anymore

❀- Obviously this made you unexplainably happy ❀- And he became more comfortable with expressing affection towards you ❀- He would be less mean at times, as his way of telling you he loves you ❀- hes a very gentle lover when he needs or wants to be ❀- He can be a bit insensitive at times, old habits die hard. To be honest you just need to tell him that hes being a dick and upsetting you and he'll probably apologize ❀- probably

❀- He'll say some mean shit not because he means it but because he just doesnt know how to not do so ❀- He'll call you names like stupid, or rat, or weak. Most of the time its a joke and you know that but there are times when you just cant handle his bullying ❀- Of course he'll stop if you really want him to, he loves you its just he doesnt always know how to express it ❀- Hes like a little boy, bullying you because he likes you ❀- But again, his childishness is made up for in his soft intimate moments.

❀- "Look im sorry okay? just come here, damn." He'll say, arms wide open as he invites you into his warmth.

——————•°•✿•°•——————••——————•°•✿•°•—————— 𝐹𝑒𝑒𝓁 𝒻𝓇𝑒𝑒 𝓉𝑜 𝓇𝑒��𝓊𝑒𝓈𝓉!

[justanotherhh]

What if Striker got a redemption arc?

Hello Hello!

it's a funny sort of question that, because so far neither of the Hellaverse shows are at a point where they've gotten into questions about villain redemption, so it's pure speculation

the closest is characters like Alastor being involved with the hotel (meaning redemption arc questions are built in), Blitzo+Stolas sucking at relationships, which is hardly villain behaviour (the killing people is the show operating on other morality levels/people just go to heaven or hell anyway and alive-people don't seem to be the focus, understandably), and possibly Mimzy who isn't a villain so much as an antagonist with a big ol' question mark over her, and Lillith, likewise, big ol' ???????

out of all the out-and-out villains we have in Hazbin the Vees, Adam, Lute, and arguably Sera, and in Helluva Mammon, Paimon, Crimson, Striker, Stella&Andrealphus, the DHORKS, the CHERUBs... maaaybe Satan, but we have yet to find out

out of that list, I feel like Adam and possibly Lute are the most likely to have some kind of redemption arc in Hazbin

and in Helluva.... yeah, I'd say Striker couuuld. I don't know if he would, because he's a foil and mirror to Blitzo, the person who's figuring shit like this out while Striker is firmly entrenched in his (much more extreme) beliefs, but there's plenty of reasons (thematic and narrative) why he could shift

what could a redemption arc look like? well, he's had a string of failures, although with Stella it was under order, and with Crimson it was really more his own guards. There's potentially a wall he'd have to hit in terms of failure, because I doubt he'd change his mind without being forced into a corner. the question is whether he would choose to die rather than do things like idk. accept help. make amends. even talk about his past

I think it'll come around to his past, how it's presented on the show (if it's ever fully shared), and whether it prompts his narrative in another direction. does it garner him some sympathy, sure, but mainly, does it introduce some wriggle room for him to look at things from a different perspective than he does

2. if he did have a redemption arc, I'm not entirely sure atm what the details of it would look like: my main thought is that he doesn't seem like someone who would want to get close to others, even if he didn't want to actively kill them, but maybe it's just the choice at some point to go off and be a lone ranger, but for good......

[nagipeko]

people scara would have suibaited the most if genshin was allowed to have that:

1. childe

2. paimon

3. dottore (post redemption arc)

[taviokapudding]

What is up with the Genshin writing team always being so inconsistent with paimon & traveler? I know they're both fed up & don't want to be pulled into bs again but a balance is needed.

Childe shouldn't get a pass because the traveler knows them a bit more.

Why is the harbinger who almost drowned Liyue and indirectly almost drowned Liyue a second time as a byproduct of the first attempt (in Shenhe's hangout we leanred he used an ass ton of fake seals of permission that never were recovered and moved with the ocean currents into osial wife's underwater jail domain) getting a slap on the wrist because ✨️besties✨️when we barely even know Lyney and he isn't an issue in the grand scheme of Fatuus they know?

Like I actually hate that I side with Paimon on this one given how fucking racist she's been in Sumeru (which is when she went from inconsistent but still a goofy kiddo to actually fucking annoying & intolerable). The traveler should still be wary of all harbingers consistently; I genuienly liked how they were with Scaramouche because even after the "redemption arc" it's still not a fully good terms relationship & they're slowly transitioning to like each other. There needs to be some more & similar tension & wariness around Childe in general.

And a reminder Childe is the only harbinger that we know of who has shown control over modified abyss mage powers- which from the pov of the traveler should be both terrifying and the bare minimum to keep a safe distance; was the upside down statue sacrifice, the burial grounds of those carrying the immortality/monster curse, & reliving their sibling's flashback not enough to get them to develop a little bit of hesitance?

Lastly Childe is an order away from stabbing the traveler in the back to keep his family safe. And this isn't an inference, the traveler knows this and is told multiple times before Fontaine. Why tf is Lyney catching so many strays that are partly the fault of Childe & Dottore?

I'm pissed about Lynette too but the siblings know their job is dangerous and the risks if something goes wrong. Lyney hasn't attempted mass murder & stated they experience glee with killing people.

The way I want to grab my Lumine and lecture her on her stupidity.

[annachum]

Valid take

I remember Viv did say that Paimon isn't going to be a Big Bad in Helluva. But I'm still looking forward to a somewhat redemption arc for Paimon - like regarding all the chaos so far, Paimon has to learn the hard way that some things in the Hell Royal systems has to change. And in the demon myths, Paimon has multiple children taking on important Goetian jobs. And Vassago often being a secretarial figure to him

That being said, I have an HC where Octavia is one of Paimon's fave grandchildren focally because Octavia is kinda like Stolas' mom in her youth. With post Sinsmas events after IMP and Stolas save Octavia, and with the Grimoire being with Octavia, I can see Paimon offering extra personal tutelage to Octavia in how to properly use the grimoire and to take over the monthly horoscope reports ( one of Stolas' royal duties ) for the time being. Octavia is trained by Stolas to one day take on his duties, but Octavia will ofc have help in that, so it would be interesting to see more on Stolas and Octavia's relationships with various other royals in Helluva S3

Hot take, but I don't think Paimon was actually that bad of a father. It actually seems like he loves and cares about his children, but just genuinely doesn't know how to connect with them. To me, it feels like Paimon's own father was abusive or neglectful and now Paimon wants to connect with his kids because he doesn't want them to feel the way he did, but he struggles to connect with them because he never had an example.

I mean does this really look like a terrible father? To me, it looks like a confused father who is trying

Sure, there is this quote, but hear me out. He's royalty; his schedule is BEYOND packed. He doesn't seem like an abusive or neglectful dad; he seems like an overworked dad. And who knows if there's really a lot of them. I've seen people have 3 or 4 kids who can't keep up and say there's too many of them. And, I'm sure for a busy, overworked dad, 3 or 4 kids is A LOT.

And let's not forget, while he may not have physically taken Stolas to the circus, but he did take the time out of his day to sit there and watch through the whole thing with his son

Not to mention, he NOTICED exactly what Stolas liked, what made him happy. He was PAYING ATTENTION. And he CARED enough about his son's happiness (and probably knew his son was lonely as he mentions his son has no friends) and he tried to buy him whatever made him happy (even though it was a person 😑 but we're not hear to argue if he's a good person, we're hear to argue if he's a bad dad or not). Paimon knew he couldn't be there to fill the emptiness in his son's life, so he hired someone to do just that so his son wouldn't have to feel lonely and unloved.

And without Paimon taking Stolas to this circus and buying Blitz for him, Stolas and Blitz may have never met. Even as adults, the only reason Blitz tries to steal from Stolas is because he knows where Stolas lives and he knows he has this book and what it can do, all because Paimon bought him

I'm not saying Paimon deserves a World's Best Dad Award, far from it. But at least he tried, and that's more than Crimson, Cash, and a lot of other dads can say. Paimon may not be a stellar dad, but he's not a terrible dad either, and I need scene where Paimon and Stolas have a heart to heart and Paimon realizes his son is in love with an imp and reflects on his own behaviors and beliefs towards imps

[factsilike]

About the Traveler-

The game doesn't show this much, but when it does, or hints at something like this, the majority of the playerbase doesn't really seem to care. And as someone who really, really loves the Traveler and their complicated relationship with their sibling, it's really disheartening to see. I don't see a lot of people discussing them.

When someone/something has been a constant by your side your whole life, since the moment you were born, and then when that constant is suddenly ripped away from you in an unfamiliar environment, you're going to feel it's absence. Keenly. It just makes sense that you will.

And the game doesn't show this often, but I imagine that the Traveler does talk about their sibling a lot. Probably with Paimon; little things along their journey probably remind them of their sibling and their previous journeys into different words and their own home.

Maybe sometimes they just lie awake at night unable to sleep, staring at the twinkling, bright stars dotting the dark canopy of the sky from which they were born. Closing their eyes, a tear trickles down their cheek. Their heart aches, as they feel the painful, but now familiar absence of their other half, which is too concentrated and potent at quiet moments like these, when there is no work or commissions, or other people of Teyvat around to dilute it.

I'm not good at writing.

Though, we have seen in-game that what reminds the Traveler of their sibling the most is other people's relationships with their own family/loved ones.

The game hasn't given us much reason to care about the abyss sibling (in fact, they seem to be actively antagonising them) so I understand why the majority of the playerbase doesn't seem to care about them either. Which is really surprising to me, because you're telling me of the two twin travelers who have traveled so many worlds and have the birth and death of stars together and have had their only world/home destroyed (or so it's implied in the lore, I don't know this for sure) and literally only have each other as a constant in their long lives, one would abandon the other like this so callously? It makes no sense, with what we've seen so far with the abyss sibling's behaviour. I know we're still missing huge chunks of lore of what happened exactly with Khaen'riah and Celestia 500 years ago, but I refuse to believe that a bond that would've only gotten stronger throughout all their travels together after supposedly losing their home, could be that shallow (the Traveler certainly doesn't).

Maybe we're both in denial.

But anyway, if Hoyoverse does go fully down the route making the abyss sibling an antagonist that we have to fight at the end of the game or something, it will be in my opinion, a nonsensical and bad one, for it will make no sense, given the twins history. They better give us a redemption arc or something for the abyss sibling.

[thatringboy]

Anyone else kinda let down by Wanderer’s redemption?

Don’t get me wrong, the cutscenes are super sick and amazing, but like the storyline?? Ehhhh?

Spoilers below

Okay SO when Greater Lord Rukkhadevata erased herself from existence, it was gut wrenching and cathartic. It was seen coming a mile away, but also you couldn’t realize what was happening until she hugged Nahida and vanished. There was emotional weight to what she did and the Traveler’s promise to keep her a secret was heavy

Then the following character quests were also hard hitting! We watched one of the few people Cyno could trust get swallowed up by sand out of grief for a dead son. We watched and participated in a high-stakes debate against an Akademiya scholar while also navigating a complicated father-daughter relationship with Nilou. We helped Nahida settle into the hands-on approach she was taking to being an Archon while also establishing that one cannot run from the consequences of their actions forever

In all of these quests, there were high stakes, mental puzzles to be cracked, big emotions that needed to be processed

and then the Wanderer’s interlude quest fell flat on its face.

Don’t get me wrong, the set up was amazing for it. I was so excited when I was chasing Scaramouche into the Sanctuary of Surasthana and listening to the writers chat about the history of Taratatsuna (I definitely misspelled that but it’s 6:12 am and I don’t care)

And Scaramouche’s interactions were witty and fun! However, I didn’t like how the Traveler and Paimon’s lines were just some variation of “you’re an asshole and we hate you” like c’mon that’s so dry

But seeing Nahida’s authoritative side is always fun so I didn’t let my hopes down

Cutscene in Irminsul was dope. Learning about what happened to Niwa was dope. Learning the gore-y part of what happened was dope.

So I guess my problem is with Scaramouche being able to “erase” himself from existence. There was no warning, no big build up, he just did it. I remember dropping my phone and yelling to my friends “oh he did NOT just do that!” And I just… why would he do that????

Maybe I’m misunderstanding Scaramouche’s character and his motivations, but nothing about him to me screamed “let’s go erase the past”. Is that just me?

And then us immediately finding him in Sumeru was dope and the Wanderer is peak Autism coding (I too space out when people steal from my workplace) but even then, the immediate switch from a deep conversation about the futility of Scaramouche’s actions to finding the Wanderer was jarring

I do like that the Traveller immediately checked up on the Kamisato siblings and Kazuha to see if anything had changed, that was sweet

But like the Fatui diplomats in Mondstat have already changed their voice lines to wondering why the 6th Harbinger position hadn’t been filled in centuries and all I could say was “Jesus Christ whyyyyy”

Erasing himself from the timeline completely negates the fact that he’s done horrible things. He knows this, the Wanderer had accepted that part of himself (which was an absolutely beautiful scene) but since nobody fucking knows who he is, the power he held, the status and the attitude, it’s all meaningless

I don’t know, maybe I’m just disappointed by the game establishing that erasing oneself from existence isn’t a decision to be made lightly and then immediately turning around and pressing RESET with Scaramouche/Wanderer for some weird redemption arc that didn’t even really redeem him

Did anyone else feel this way or were different opinions had about his quest?

[ii-van]

so i’ve just been spoiled for the archon interlude quest with scara so i’m gonna be quickly talking about it utc

idk i’m kinda disappointed? i think that’s the best way of putting it.

i haven’t played the quest yet but from what i’ve heard apparently he just gets wiped from everyone’s memories apart from the traveller, paimon and nahida, and now he’s all good and dandy? it feels a little underwhelming to use irminsul as a quick escape for a villain’s ‘redemption arc’ if that’s what it’s called.

maybe my expectations are just too high after having experienced villains and super morally grey characters like edelgard and dimitri from three houses because THAT is what i feel is good writing.

sigh i hope everything makes more sense when i actually play the quest. it’s just very cheap sounding atm and i hope that one day we finally have some irredeemable characters that DONT JUST SUDDENLY FLIP SIDES IN A SINGLE QUEST. like this is the same guy who legit tried to unalive us with INTENT right???

[awkwardandeccentric]

Also I will never get over the apologetics for Stella’s abusive behavior and the demands for a redemption arc. Meanwhile, nobody’s out here doing the same for Valentino, Vox, Velvette, Crimson, Cash, or Paimon. Hell, even Stolas, who has done nothing anywhere close as bad as any of these characters and has been on his redemption arc since S1E7 (albeit in the background, but it still counts), they don’t want one for. Just Stella. The only (*coughwhitecough*) woman villain.

Hmmmm

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Have you noticed that the complaints about the Hellaverse are the complete OPPOSITE of the complaints about the recent Disney and Pixar animated films?

They complain that Disney is too scared to write actual villains nowadays, then they complain that Hellaverse villains like Stella (and to a lesser extent Crimson) are TOO evil and DON'T have a sob story or get redeemed.

They complain about how Disney is too scared to write romance nowadays, then they bash every single Hellaverse romance for different reasons (Stolitz for being toxic and unhealthy, Chaggie for being bland and generic, plus changing their mind about HuskerDust despite it originally being a popular ship).

They complain about recent Disney films like Encanto being obnoxiously overanimated and that they can't do subtle animation anymore (as well as using similar complaints about Don Bluth films and even Klaus), then they complain about Hazbin Hotel looking stilted and lifeless (to the point of comparing it to Family Guy) and wish it was all rubbery like a Bob Clampett cartoon or the later SpongeBob seasons.

They complain that Disney can't write flawed protagonists anymore and that characters like Asha are boring flawless Mary Sues, then they complain about Hellaverse characters like Stolas being TOO flawed.

They complain that Disney and Pixar films nowadays are too light and soft and they can't do dark edgy films like Hunchback or The Incredibles anymore, then they complain about the Hellaverse being TOO dark and edgy.

This is what I mean when I talk about the inconsistency of social media critics and how I have no idea what people like or dislike anymore.

[sheshepherd]

so what did y'all name scara? i named him blorbo and everytime i see him i just 🥺

also i don't think i've seen a redemption arc quite like his in newer media and it's so good. him, nahida, and the traveller being the only people who actually remembers (we can't say abt paimon bc yknow... she's paimon)

this is me begging for the story quest now

also spare kaeya & wandered interactions please i'd love that spicy interaction

[flokali]

Ngl I slandered Ei for a while now because of her waifufication but at the same time I was waiting for a redemption arc, and damn did they deliver.

That quest was just 👌

And the Ei and Miko banter at the end? Absolutely adorable 10/10 love the dynamic

Honestly, I get why people might’ve disliked her first quest - on the surface it seems very fan-service-y - but not going to lie, I adored it.

It’ll have to go under the cut because I go into spoilers about the quest/lore and rant so much I could talk about Ei and her brilliance for hours it’s not even funny, like can you tell she’s one of my favorite characters??

I felt so bad for Ei throughout the quest, just taking her around and seeing her reaction - I mean, definitely they played up for the whole “naive waifu” narrative but it was also so sad to see, unlike the other two archons who - albeit having different amounts of involvement as archons - were able to interact and live in their respective nations, you can say what you want about Venti and Zhongli but they definitely knew and were up to date with things happening in Mondstatd and Liyue respectively.

Ei, on the other hand, had no idea - she adores Inazuma with her whole heart but decided to neglect it in hopes of making her people happy and to fulfill what she believed was their dream, seeing her experience Dango Milk and read silly novels and see how shocked she was at the progress she had once been so fearful of felt sad (if not just pitiful), it was such a stark contrast to Makoto and how involved she was with the daily lives of Inazuma’s residents (she’s implied to have been out and about in Inazuma and interacting with her people);Ei saw her worth restricted by her ability as a fighter, not a ruler. She was naive and stubborn and it took her 500 years of solitude, a failed decree, the death of her sister and closest friends to experience her own region, her own nature and the her deceased sister’s life’s work, for the first time and she was shocked and, most importantly, regretful for her actions. The end of her quest had me so excited to see what they’d do with her, the implications of a fight between her and Raiden and the clear regret she held for her actions were so interesting and it showed a clear difference between herself (the Ei who has experienced Inazuma) and Raiden.

The second quest kind of solidified these feelings for me about Ei and made an already tragic and well-written story so much more amazing to me, it honestly did her and Makoto so much justice… Her actions always stood out; her distaste for her gnosis yet her fear of the Heavenly Principals, the reasoning behind the creation of Raiden Shogun, those questions kept me hooked through her first and second archon quest and honestly I adore the direction they seem to be heading towards for her </3

And her relationship with Yae Miko is so precious, they care about each other so much - Yae’s lines about entrusting “her God” onto the traveler’s hands and her absolute shyness when Paimon and the traveler try brining it up >_< The way until this point, Yae has been the bridge between Ei and Inazuma and finally is able to spend time with Ei, even if she says she’s only doing her job as her familiar, it’s clear Yae and Ei care about each other deeply; I’m literally in love with them and their relationship.

[signoras-pet]

Here's the Hoyoverse Villains Formula🙄

Traveler finds bad guys

Beat up bad guys

Bad guys cower in fear and Paimon says annoying stupid witty one liner

Bad guys want to turn good and become best friends with traveler

Rinse and repeat

Thats the one of the many things I hate

Its why I love Signora. She didn't fall in love or try to become best friends with Traveler

That's why I already hate Scaramouche's whole plot. He was set up at this cool cold ruthless caculating villain but now that he got his ass beat, "he was humbled"

Let me guess, we are supposed to forgive all the shit he did because "mom didn't love him"

Then he gets he gets his boring redemp arc and now hes best friends with everyone.

Now repeat with all harbingers because "fuck having consquences for your shitty actions"

ehhhh i feel like a scara redemption makes sense. the way i see him is like a teen or a young adult that has let themselves wholly be shaped by their own trauma. yes they hurt people, yes they’ve committed atrocities, but their redemption isn’t to beg for forgiveness of their crimes, their redemption is to recognise themself.

Scaramouche isn’t bound by his trauma. He isn’t just a vessel for a gnosis, and he’ll never reach his mothers expectations because Ei has no expectations. I think the reason Scara is called ‘Wanderer’ instead of Scara or Kuni is because he is starting the next step of his life, but to make that step he must run from the horrible things he’s done

[empyrangel]

I’m not gonna respond to anything in the body of the reblog because I just feel like I’m repeating myself too much, but you said something in your tags that I need to comment on.

Firstly, Scara did murder people I think, I can’t remember who but it was somewhere his convoluted backstory.

That aside, while I don’t think his redemption arc was S tier or anything (I was quite disappointed that they decided to remove him from existence and most people’s memories so he didn’t end up facing any real consequences for what he’s done both before and as a harbinger such as him being responsible for the fall of Kazuha’s clan) it wasn’t like you seem to think it was. Scara didn’t wash his sins away or anything, he was given the choice to be able to reject his past life and be that innocent person who never joined the fatui or became vengeful, but he decided instead to accept that part of himself back because he knew it was still a part of who he was and if he made bad choices in his past he wanted to live with them. Also he wasn’t immediately forgiven completely I’d say. The traveler and especially Paimon still regard him with skepticism and suspicion, like when they were unsure about Nahida giving him a second chance, or how they treated him during the inter-darshan games event. Again, it’s not perfect, but it’s much better than how Arlecchino is written. To be more like Arle’s quest Scara would have had to reject his past self, and also Kazuha or someone would have had to wax poetic at the end about how Scara is still a good person despite everything he did and the people he killed, like how all the characters sing Arle’s praises at the end of her quest despite everything she had just done to them.

Finally got around to doing the Arlecchino story quest and I gotta say. what the fuck. genuinely this might be the worst story genshin has ever put out

I was so hyped for it between all of the quests in Fontaine being so good up until now, and the trailer making it seem really dramatic and tense and like it was really going to go in depth about the dynamics in the house of the hearth, just for it to be as boring as it was frustrating.

Part of what made it such a bore to sit through is that we already knew exactly what was going to happen in it. They spoiled so much of it with that terrible amine short they put out prior to the quest. There was no mystery or suspense around Clervie’s identity or all the terrible things she was accusing the house and the Knave of because we already knew she was Arle’s childhood friend and she was talking about the old Knave and not the current one. Seriously, why did they release that short before the quest? And everything that wasn’t spoiled beforehand was painfully predictable. When they were talking about Arle executing people for just wanting a better life than being forced to work for a terrorist organization, I knew there was no way they were going to commit to that. That is way to absurd and cruel and they were absolutely going to chicken out from making Arle villainous so it had to be a red herring. I joked to myself that there was going to be some big reveal about how actually Arle hasn’t been killing these people, she’s just been putting them in witness protection and giving them new civilian identities to live under. And you’re fucking telling me that they actually pulled that shit? Like unironically that was the route they chose to go with? That’s laughable.

This applies to the anime short as well as the quest, but Crucabena was such a one-dimensional cardboard cutout of a character. She was evil to an absurd, almost comical degree, and that’s literally all she was. It’s so obvious she only exists to make Arle look like a better Knave by comparison (and to give her a pathetic sob story of a childhood). She’s not even her own character and she only exists as a foil for Arle, that’s ridiculous.

And that leads into my biggest problem with this quest, which is not only how they absolutely refuse to let Arle be portrayed as a villain or even a morally grey character, but how that leads to insane levels of favoritism that simultaneously harms her character, the characters of everyone else in the quest, and the story itself. I mean the narrative really bends to Arle’s favor in a borderline Mary-Sue-like manner.

She’s all-knowing, apparently. She just knows about both of the plots going down behind her back with no explanation as to why and no prior characterization of her as being omniscient. She knows because she’s ✨special✨ and she just does. Neuvillette has been established to have the power to resonate with and read people’s emotions, but oh so conveniently he can’t read Arle’s emotions. No explanation as to why except that she’s just ✨special✨ and ✨emotionally repressed✨ and he just can’t. She’s also omnipotent btw, because we can’t have the audience believing that Arle is anything other the most perfect most special girlie in Teyvat. The traveler has fought and won against gods, and dragons, and dragon gods, and three other harbingers? Well fuck all of that because they can’t beat this mortal human with ✨special✨ fire magic. Did I mention how strong and special she is? What even was that fight though? Again, the trailer hyped it up so much just for it to fall completely flat. The traveler didn’t manipulate the elements, why not? Were they even trying? Arle just showed them some vision and it completely disabled them. But the audience doesn’t have the context as the what the vision was or what it means (because god forbid we ever get any traveler lore) so it just feels like some lazy cop-out to make sure Arle won the fight no matter what, because she’s the most specialist girl and she’s the best at everything. Can’t have her looking weak.

And that’s another thing, Arle doesn’t have any weaknesses or character flaws. Technically she does, for example she is extremely emotionally repressed. But the narrative isn’t aware that’s a flaw and therefore doesn’t treat it like one, instead she’s treated like the pinnacle of existence. She’s all-knowing, undefeatable in combat, immune to all other characters abilities, a master manipulator, she always has the upper hand against everyone else, she’s intelligent, organized, ruthless, unable to be influenced by emotion, she’s everything except a well-rounded character because this game is so insistent on keeping from Arle from actually being shown as a villain that they somehow did a 180 and made everyone think of her as a hero and the greatest thing since sliced bread. And that leads me to the worst problem with this quest.

The massive Arle dick sucking contest that is the end of the story quest. What the hell was that? Instead of killing people for simply wanting a better life, it turns out Arle forcibly removes people’s personalities and sense of self in a process that is explicitly stated to be extremely painful, and then drops them off in the court of Fontaine with no memories and no idea who they are to fend for themselves for the rest of their lives, but apparently since she doesn’t kill people everyone starts worshiping the ground she walks on? Did everyone conveniently forget that Arle forces children to join the house, then manipulates them into not trying to leave by pretending that the penalty for that is death, and then when people inevitably begin to hate her for being a piece of shit, she removes people’s personalities and sense of self in a process that is explicitly stated to be extremely painful, and then drops them off in the court of Fontaine with no memories and no idea who they are to fend for themselves for the rest of their lives. And on top of that, she’s brainwashed the children of the house to believe that not wanting to forcibly work for a terrorist organization for the rest of your life is the same as betraying your family. And she made the siblings believe that they had to fight her and win to get her to spare the other members when she was going to do that already. Let’s not pretend all that’s not extremely fucked up.

But then you have the two npc’s who were wanting to leave apologizing to her because they were pissed she forced them into the house and made leaving illegal? Like wtf are you apologizing for, you guys are completely in the right? And Lynette and Freminet, who had been beaten by Arle so badly they said they couldn’t move for two days were like “Well that wasn’t even 1% of her power, she could’ve killed us if she wanted to but she went easy, we’re very grateful for that.” Grateful for fucking what? That she didn’t kill you? That’s absurd. And Lyney, who is currently being groomed by Arlecchino to soon take her place in the cycle of abuse, thanks Arle for sparing him and letting him be in the house. He calls her a hero. These people think they actually owe Arle lives for bringing them into the hearth wtf. When I said that the Arle favoritism was ruining other’s characters besides her own, this is what I meant. The siblings could have had some development in this quest. They could have finally woken up to Arle’s manipulation and we could have some nuance to their opinions on and loyalty to Arlecchino while still having them stay in the house because it’s the only home and family they know. But no, all of that got trashed in favor of showing the audience how great Arle is for not killing and experimenting on children and how everyone loves her, and is blindly obedient, and never questions her.

But I think the worst of it was Clervie. We get that whole backstory about how Clervie dedicated her life to seeking freedom and opposing Crucabena’s terrible way of leading until she couldn’t take it anymore and decided the only way to be free was to die. And then she witnesses everything that happened at the ruins. Arle threatening to kill people just for wanting to leave a place they never chose to be a part of, the people begging and crying for their lives, Arle demanding that rules must be upheld above people’s lives, the blatant way Arle was using “loyalty” to manipulate the people in the house, her making the siblings fight her with the lives of the other members on the line, her painfully removing people’s memories and personality and kicking them out. Clervie saw all that and still told Arle that she was a good Knave and Clervie approved of what she did. At this point the game might as well just come out and say “See! Everyone loves Arle and thinks she’s the greatest. Even her friend who opposed the old Knave for being cruel thinks she’s doing a great job. That means you have to like her too. Pay no attention to what an actual piece of human shit she is and just admit that she’s the specialist and the bestest character :)” because honestly that would have been more subtle than all this bullshit.

And what really gets me is that in the quest they explicitly made a point about how sad it was that the children except for Arle and Clervie were too brainwashed to realize how cruel the old Knave was, and then they went and pulled that ending. This goes beyond irony.

Only good part of the quest was that conversation between Lyney and Freminet at the beginning and Lynette calling everyone a dumbass. This whole quest should’ve just been them.

I had such high expectations because all of Fontaine so far, from the archon quest, to the world quests, to events, to story quests have been almost perfect. I’m so pissed that we’re leaving this incredible nation on such a sour note.

[zaneswhite]

Inazuma Quests/Kokomi Quest Spoiler warning!!!!!

As much as I like Scaramouche, if he does show up again, I do not want him to have a redemption arc or become friends with the Traveler. At all. We need characters who are shit people who stay shitty or at least heavily suffer from the consequences of their actions.

Part of the reason that the Inazuma chapters writing was so bad was because of how quickly everyone just stood up, brushed off dust, and forgave Ei. Yeah, theres some aftermath but there was no real lasting collateral damage.

Even characters who suffered at her hand personally (see: Kazuha. He claims that he doesn’t hate her and isn’t mad at her but I don’t believe him for a second. We’ve established that he’s a character who likes to hide things. I fully believe that he holds some type resentment even if he doesn’t say anything) just up and forget about things she’s done.

I loathed the way that the Traveler immediately tried to befriend her even after she tried to kill them. Boohoo, you have a sad backstory, cool, anyways, what about all these people you killed. And the only thing that the story has as an excuse is ‘well, it wasn’t really her it was a robot that she made that looks like her, lmao, so it’s fine’. She made the Raiden Shogun to do everything while she sat in a sword. She admitted that she was aware of at least some of if not all of the bad things that were happening. She is very much responsible for all of the destruction and death caused by the Shogun even if it’s just indirectly.

I fully agree with Yae’s statement about being a kid locking themselves in their room. Because that is what she is. A whiny kid who had something bad happen to them and instead of getting the proper help, she pitched a fit, used a whole ass nation as a awful coping mechanism, locked her self in her room and ultimately walked away without a punishment because ‘oh, the dog did it, so even though I bought the dog, riled it up, then neglected it, I’m not really responsible for the vase breaking cause I didn’t do it. Sorry, I guess, anyways, can I have a cookie?.’

The traveler has literally given the archons who have done less more shit than they have given Ei. Like, Paimon literally yelling at Venti for using his own damn toys how he wants is a meme now. We gave him more crap for messing with his own stuff then we gave Ei for literally ruining or ending lives.

Hell, in Kokomi’s story quest Kujou Sara is shown to get more of the blame for the war than the Shogun or Ei does. And she takes full responsibility for everything she’s done even though she was lied to for a lot of it. Her ‘I fully believed I was doing the right thing’ makes sense. When she finds out that she is helping with attacking people needlessly in a dishonest way she goes and helps to fix the source of the problem. Her redemption makes sense. You could even argue that she is a victim in the situation too. She’s literally in the process of making peace with Kokomi, gets threatened for something she didn’t do or know about ONCE AGAIN and STILL takes responsibility for it. She is probably the only antagonist in Inazuma who comes even close to deserving the Travelers or anyone’s forgiveness. (She has her own writing issues but we’ll get to that later).

The writing team needs to stop kissing all of the asses of characters who did horrible things just because they have sad back stories. ‘Uwu, they do bad things because they’re traumatized, now watch them get away with it’. If they give the same treatment to Scaramouche or any other evil characters or antagonists in the future, I will lose it. It’s bad writing. And Ei needs to learn from her general. I think she’s cool but her writing is not it.