#or to be better at being the other side of anders

[ghost-bard]

im like varric in a lot of ways, mainly that I too have an odd fascination with sebastian vael but instead of being a little freak that insults him every five minutes bc why would varric ever admit to potentially being infatuated with him, im very open about wanting to fuck him. i could make him worse, but he'd be better for it.

[vaguely-concerned]

just going about my day idly contemplating how some of the ways hawke can interact with a romanced anders are not at all unlike how they interact with leandra (and a bit of carver too, especially with a purple hawke), and then thought about my hawke in the timeline where he romances anders and was hit straight in the face with 'was he ever actually in love, or was he just desperately trying to renegotiate with his mother's ghost in any way he could' and now i need to lie down. this is the power of dragon age 2

[mayhemforlace]

It's crazy remembering Hawke can become Viscount of Kirkwall for a minute. HAWKE.

[rosykims]

i was so set on replaying veilguard for the davrinmance but oh my god im SO attached to my agent-of-fenharel hardingmancer rn i actually think the choice is out of my hands lol

[gentleoverdrive]

[01/19] And the privilege of a twenty-two kilometer TOMBSTONE! (004)

A good deal (not everything, obviously. Especially not the misogyny, which is a problem the fandom is still very much grappling with) of the Fódlan/Fódlan lords discourse surrounding Fire Emblem: Three Houses and Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes came/comes down to "sports team"-like tribalism shenanigans. ---- I don't know how much of this constitutes a "hot take" within Fire Emblem community/fandom spaces, but it's something I often think about because, as someone who was considerably cooler on the setting of Fódlan, I'm consistently baffled by the amount of shit that got flung wrt the lords, the student houses, the church and people just refusing to take a step back to go "HOLD THE PHONE...!" ---- And it was just fucking staring at us the whole time. Like whatever Kusakihara has said in those interviews that get quoted so often to make some sort of salient point, I still find it hard to believe that not one of the big brained video essayists, content creators, etc who love to yap for minutes on end didn't take the time out to comment on how blatant the behavior lots of fans displayed. ---- And how it likely was by design. Like I'm not gonna point at Kusakihara and Yokota (The IntSys and Nintendo directors for 3H) and say "Villain(s)!" like I'm some sort of underwater-based cartoon character or something, but still: Like they have COLORS and ANIMALS in the names of the student houses/teams, and one of the DLC options for costumes is pretty much just a football/basketball uniform, like COME THE FUCK ON. ---- Like I ain't telling FE fans to get invested into watching/participating in team sports or whatever (you should, tho'!) or that big team sports aren't crooked as hell (point me at a financially lucrative team sport and I will point ya' at their governing body being run more like a mafia org), but recognizing that most fandom communities across types of hobbies as a whole aren't all that different is always very sobering. ---- So please, pretty please with sugar and a cherry on top, whenever someone says something mildly inflammatory about your fave from Fódlan (FFF), just remember: There's probably some sports-like tribalism thing going on. Or they're being misogynists, which is unfortunately a common problem within this fandom at large, not just localized within the pocket of Fódlan Emblem. Or they just don't like the character(s) and are poor at putting into words, which is fine. ---- Anyway, hope this helps one of you to realize one of the pitfalls that comes with being part of a fandom, try and see if you can see it elsewhere in this fandom, MANUELA AND SHAMIR BEST WOMEN, EAT MY ASS, YOU ZERO TASTE-HAVING MOTHERF-- ahem, sorry about that. Stay safe, and I'll read you on the next one!

[felassan]

David Gaider on Fenris, under a cut for length:

"Fenris. Now, DA2 is a story all on its own but I'm not going to go there other than to sum it up as "we had just over a year and a half to make this". It's why I only wrote one follower, Fenris, and although it'll make his fans mad: I probably shouldn't have. Let me explain. The way we'd approach making the followers is brainstorming a list of concepts covering first the array of gameplay classes (and sub-classes) and then making sure they each have some skin in the game when it came to the story's conflicts - ideally having characters on both sides of the major ones. Why? You can't make a player care about the world, but you can make them care about characters who care about the world. It's the easiest way to provide hooks into a conflict, outside of it knocking on the player's door. Heck, it's probably better than that. Players will burn the world for approval. After that, we'd decide things like romances/sexuality. Then the writers would pick who they'd write. I always let my writers pick first. I figured they do their best work when it's something they're inspired to write... and they got so few chances at ownership, I wanted to give it whenever I could It's why I (reluctantly) let Patrick wrest Cole from my grasp in DAI, a character I'd created in Asunder. It's also why I let Jennifer take Anders in DA2, who I'd started in Awakening. In this instance, it meant I was left with the angry elven warrior character who nobody else appeared to want."

"It should have been my first clue that something was up. The second was how the artists had zero clue what to do with him. The art concepts were all over the place - from mages to crows to... well, even weirder. No matter how hard I tried to explain the idea, the artists simply didn't seem to get it Does this mean he was a bad character? Not exactly. Just an idea that probably deserved some re-examining. You can tell when an idea has a certain spark, and part of that is being easy to communicate. Sadly, there wasn't time for any re-examining even if it'd occurred to me. And it didn't, not yet. If it had, if I had time, maybe I'd have re-booted him as a templar. Someone pro-templar rather than anti-mage, who could give a personal hook into Meredith and give the templars some badly-needed humanity. But this falls into the shoulda-woulda-coulda category. I had a follower to write. Quickly. I struggled, at first. It was hard to get away from "Fenris hates everything, all the time". It felt very one-note, and I didn't know where to take him. My third clue, I guess. I also wasn't sure if I was the right person to write a former slave. I did know that couldn't be the center of his story. I did know trauma, however. How it can eat you up. How the hate and resentment is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies. How it can infect your relationships. Fenris's trauma isn't my trauma, obviously, but here I dipped into a more personal part of myself than I'd ever done before."

"It gave me the center of his story I was missing, but wow was it uncomfortable. In a good way, maybe. I likely wouldn't have, if I hadn't been so desperate. In a way, I think DA2 had some of our best writing *because* of the timeline. It was raw, with little time to sand down the interesting parts. I wouldn't have done the "Fenris doesn't talk to you for three years" thing if I'd known we were going to cut all the reactivity initially planned for the time jumps. When that call was made, I campaigned to cut the jumps to a year, but there was no time for the revisions it'd need. So, um. Awkward. I used to get asked where the name came from, and I... don't remember? Obviously it's derived from Fenrir, but I don't recall why we picked that. Someone pointed at Fenris the Feared from Joe Abercrombie's books... and I did read them, so maybe the name lodged in my head? Wouldn't be the first time. Casting Fenris turned out to be easy. He was the first time I requested a specific VA and got him. (The other times were Merrill and then Solas, my two "I want these specific Welsh actors, please".) Why? OK, if you must know, I'd played a bit of Final Fantasy XII. I heard Balthier. "Yes, that." 😅 And Gideon Emery was a delight, as it turned out. Consummate professional, and that lovely gravel in his voice... good god. Bite the knuckles. There was a struggle to find the voice at the outset where I did my best not to say "just pls do Balthier" but he found Fenris on his own and it was amazing. Overall, Fenris turned out better than he had any right to, considering the rocky start. He had a lot of soul, a vulnerability forged by pain that struck a chord with a lot of players, and I'm glad. Do I regret anything? Probably having him live in a corpse-filled mansion that would never update. That's a hindsight thing, though, as again the cut to reactivity over the time jumps came late. Outside of that, maybe letting the player give him back to Danarius? Poor shock value and a waste of resources because almost nobody took the option. Good evil options are ones that are tempting to take. And the lyrium tattoos. Interesting concept, but they're probably why you'll never see Fenris in a future DA. He requires a custom body, and the tattoos make that expensive. It's why I put Fenris in my 4th DA novel - the cancelled one. Don't fret, though. He died in it, so this way he lives on. 😉"

[source thread]

User: "Wait wait how does he die in [the cancelled novel]??" David Gaider: "Gloriously, after taking up a cause he didn't believe in at first but then made his own, one that allowed him to rediscover what it meant to be elven." [source] David Gaider: "I’m not sorry about the novel cancellation. I’m the one who cancelled it. I am kinda sad we couldn’t make it work, though. Considering it was after I left the DA team, it would have been my final DA hurrah." [source] David Gaider: "From my perspective, it was kind of "well if you're never going to use him again, let me at least give him a proper send off" and the story required a glorious death... but I get that's not the story his biggest fans would want (which is Hawke + Fenris 4ever), so it's just as well." [source]

User: "You all did some incredible work with such a tight deadline" David Gaider: "I'm of the opinion that even if we'd had only another six months to bake, DA2 would be remembered as a classic and not either a flawed gem or underbaked sequel, depending on who you ask." [source]

David Gaider: "Just to clarify the "they're probably why you'll never see Fenris" thing, as it's spawned commentary: 1. It's the reasoning as was explained to me back then. 2. Obviously, if Bio *really* wanted to, they'd find a way around it. But it was a complication that meant he couldn't be included casually." [source]

[theoncomingchaos]

Who loves Rook: Spite or Lucanis

I've been seeing a lot of discourse about this, and I just want to add my thoughts.

I might be totally wrong about this, but here we go. When Spite was put into Lucanis, he was still Determination. The fact that he changed throughout the torture, forced insertion, and imprisonment suggests to me that they have been put into a speedrun of a similar situation to Anders and Justice/Vengeance where they have started to meld. (As Anders put it, you wouldn't know where one begins and the other ends). Just like Anders and Vengeance, Lucanis and Spite can have separate consciousnesses and even disagree about things, but their core values have started to influence one another and become a part of one another- heightening certain aspects.

I think this melding is why we see some dialogues where Rook tells Lucanis that he sounds like Spite and similarly it's also the reason for the shared attraction- which I fully believe is coming originally from Lucanis.

I'll be honest my first time through I romanced Lucanis and was very disappointed. I didn't even see him and Neve ever flirt (she only ever encouraged us!) But still, it seemed to go from 0 to 60 with him. Now, I am on my second playthrough and I only just met him, but I am starting to see some really subtle looks and dialogues that suggest that Lucanis wasn't lying later when he said he was attracted to Rook from the beginning, but was afraid to really pursue anything or even acknowledge the possibility of being with them. With his fear of trusting people, ptsd from the prison, failed history in romance, and his new situation with Spite that he still hadn't worked out yet, he never thought anything would or could ever come of his feelings. We know Lucanis loves romance stories and likely longs for one of his own, but in such a situation it must have seemed truly impossible and terrifying to let someone else in. Especially someone you really care for and are starting to trust. So, he pushed it all down. Rook flirts? Maybe a small smile, but then quickly lock it all up with everything else he can't handle. Focus on work. Don't think about Spite, or Rook, or anything difficult.

However, if the melding has already happened as I suspect, then the feelings Spite is expressing are shared with (and likely sourced from) Lucanis, he's just better at expressing it directly- which makes sense for a spirit that was once Determination. When you first talk to Lucanis after the rescue, the thing Spite says about Rook changes accordingly to your tone, but to me the responses still sound like they come from Lucanis and are then echoed in Spite: "He doesn't want to hurt us." Even the "He's more fun than you" is something Lucanis seems to think about himself as he is fully aware that much of his life has not been his own and believes "all he knows is death."

Leading back to the main point, Lucanis's trust and interest in Rook would be heightened by Spite the way Anders' anger towards the templars was heightened. Even though they are finally free from the prison, their is a sense of constant suffering from still feeling trapped by fear, regret, and pain- Spite feels that suffering too. The elements of determination are still within him the same way justice is another side to vengeance. Both spite and vengeance are the results of failing to achieve their goals of Justice and Determination. Spite sees Rook as a way to free them from pain and restraint, a glowing and beautiful key to the prison door, and he is determined to do what needs to be done to solve the problem. That's why he doesn't hesitate. He has no fear. He wants to talk to Rook. He wants Rook to come in and free them.

After Rook has freed them, they become a source of comfort and safety, once they encourage Lucanis and Spite to find a way to cohabit comfortably, the two continue to meld, and the need to protect Rook, to love Rook, to keep them, is very deeply shared. Now, IF Spite was somehow removed or even somehow restored (Both of which I think are impossible) that would likely change. Determination outside of Lucanis would likely become more like Compassion. He would likely forget the horrors he experienced to return to his original purpose.

So, that leaves some final questions, particularly one Hawke helpfully asked Anders- Is Spite an unwilling party in the threesome?

That's up to everyone's own morality. While both Spite and Lucanis didn't have a choice to become like this, it is the situation they are in and the way they have to find a way to accept and live with because there really doesn't seem to be any real way to change it. Through their time together, Lucanis and Spite have influenced each other and grown into something new. Part of that is Spite also loving Rook. In that way, for those who are feeling (rightfully) underwhelmed by Lucanis's romance, Spite can almost be seen as a symbolic expression of Lucanis's love.

All that being said, I think there were some small things they could have done to make the romance more satisfying over all...but I'll save that for another post.

[dragonageconfessions]

CONFESSION:

The one thing I appreciate about Anders in 2 is the point of contrast he shows with Wynne. Like the first game establishes that demons possessing people is bad and they become monsters. But oh wait, the nice old lady is possessed, and she’s fine, maybe even better! Cool this issue is more complex than we were initially led to believe!

Then along comes Anders, all merged up with a spirit, and this time it’s even a spirit we know and not just a vague entity. Except this time it’s not okay. This time the supernatural entity living inside our companion doesn’t take a back seat and come out when requested if you do a side quest, he comes out when he wants to and sometimes he’s forcibly taking control and killing people he’s theoretically trying to help for *checks notes* being scared of him. They’re in a toxic spiral where both of them reinforce each others anger, creating a feedback loop of righteous indignation and a need to act, damn the consequences. After the first game tells us hey maybe being possessed isn’t so bad, 2 does the opposite and says yup it can be bad even if you did it with essentially pure intentions, doubling down on how complex and issue it can be.

[fromtherift]

(Puts on my communism goggles) I think staunchly pro-anders fans are fascinating because to me at least it shows how to most people revenge is more important than actual progress. People will always want to do what feels good over what is right, because progress often is slow and unsatisfying in the moment.

My main issue with Anders’ action isn’t that he did something extreme, it’s that he did in the wrong place. Why the chantry over the gallows, where the actual templars were and there would be less civilians to hurt? He had Hawke on his side, he could have planned to evacuate people or put some safeguard in place to minimize civilian damages in the gallows, since most of the people in the gallows are not civilians. Blowing up property - especially if the property houses information and shelter for the oppressing party- is good. It’s a great plan. It would have made a much bigger impact and put a lot less mages across Thedas in direct danger if it was the gallows that were destroyed and not a chantry.

But Anders was wrapped up in vengeance (and we can have a whole discussion about how responsible Anders is for the actions of Justice). The point wasn’t to make the world better for mages at that point- the mage-Templar war that ensued did not ensure any kind of rights for mages depending on what you did in inquisition, and many had to die for being made automatically complicit in crimes against Andraste (even if they were believers themselves, that’s just the consequence of BLOWING UP THE CHANTRY), it was to do something extreme to feel like he was doing something just for the mages. Blowing up the chantry made this a statement on religion. It distracted from the actual grievances about the abuse taking place in mage circles.

There is no justice when collateral damage in the form of life is acceptable. That is no way forward, and it will create a lot more problems in the long run than it solves. It creates Martyrs, people who won’t rest until their own versions of feel good revenge is satisfied.

But it did feel real good to see the chantry- at that point housing people sheltering from danger- blow up as a symbol of your hate to the Templar order. It felt real good and that’s all that mattered.

This is great commentary on real world situations where good people - and Anders was a good person, dedicated his whole life to doing right by others and the world around him- get corrupted and twisted and pushed to do things that a younger version of them might never condone. When things get bad enough and no one wants to listen these kinds of actions seem to be the only way forward. The issue, ultimately, is not Anders. It’s not even Kirkwall. It’s fear against magic and a distrust of strangers, both issues that would never be solved or even addressed with terrorism. Anyway. He’s a fascinating character and his writing is really interesting to me

[postcardsfromheapside]

So I finished my DA2 replay, and I had wondered if I would feel differently after taking my time with it, and with the perspective of Veilguard. And yes, in small ways I do, but about the series and about Anders, I don't. That is to say: I think Veilguard is a fucking fantastic capper to the series (I mean, pray there is more, "hope for the best, expect the worst" as the Mel Brooks song goes), and Anders is relatably angry, even if the "betrayal" is frustrating and heart-breaking.

Also, there's just too much Dragon Age just the same way there's too much Tolkien, it's just that I can relisten to Tolkien via audiobook while I work and don't have time to constantly replay Dragon Age to absorb every little detail that my broken brain forgets (and I'm pretty good with lore) and I wish parts of this fandom were more curious than scathing about things they've obviously forgotten. Or skipped through, according to some of them, because I guess the context of dialogue and a cut scene isn't necessary for some of them to weigh in on things.

Word vomit of notes below the break:

First of all.

Can these two just fuck already. Watching Cassandra go from throwing him around to absolutely ENTHRALLED by Varric's complete bullshit is just going to make it so much better when I hit the "Guilty Pleasures" quest again in DA:I. This woman is SEDUCED by his story-telling, and you *cannot* convince me he wasn't gagging on his power trip.

Second.

I never played Mark of the Assassin before, and had completely forgotten Felicia Day was in DA2, and laughed like hell. I really enjoyed it. I haven't really used a stealth option in a game since leaving Skyrim for other stuff (do we ever really leave Skyrim?) and it was really fun, but I think the wyvern at the end of the DLC was actually the best fight in the entire game, even more than Corypheus. It hinted at the dragon battles to come in Veilguard. Also, I loved how Anders' dialogue got more relaxed outside of Kirkwall, like shedding the city let him loosen up. The back and forth with Hawke about his fantasy for being rescued was completely unhinged - after I accused Hawke of being feral and lacking social graces, I've decided the two of them match each other's freak and they're fine.

Third.

All the people who were losing their minds about the line "A crow never abandons a contract" and acting like the devs forgot Zevran.

He literally addresses it in the game. I keep having these moments where shit that people bitched about regarding Veilguard is addressed right *there.*

"The crows do like saying that, but I am living proof it's a lie."

No one actually forgot, but I'm sure the Dellamorte's wish to the Maker a motherfucker could.

When people complain the writing in Veilguard is too modern, I'm going to remember Hawke complaining exactly like this. She sounds like I do when I'm side-eyeing my friends in the year of our Maker 2025.

Fourth.

I had planned on romancing Blackwall this DA:I run, finally, because I'm a little obsessed with this Warden throughline from Anders to Blackwall to Davrin. From a cage, to hope/redemption, to a more meaningful path of positive change and impact.

They both haunt Veilguard's narrative and dialogue.

And then of course:

hrm.

Fifth.

I do hope we get another DA. Or supplementary material. Because I want to know what the fuck is going on with this story I had forgotten the details of, especially with the decision regarding the Nadas Dirthalen.

These two fucking idiots. I can't believe in different lives I've schtupped them both. (I can absolutely believe it)

Sixth.

The worst part of Meredith is she sounds like conservative family members of mine. 'Better to punish the innocent than risk even one guilty person go free', rather than the opposite. To them it sounds so reasonable. To us, it's abhorrent to punish everyone else for other people's crimes.

I couldn't bring myself to feel betrayed by Anders, even though I tried to play my Hawke as I think she would have felt: betrayed by the secret-keeping, if nothing else. The shock and hurt at the innocent lives. But it's hard not to feel an understanding when I sit here in a political situation with - maybe not less fraught, but at least less fantastical - implications and certainly still feel like violence is inevitable and we are way past the point of compromise and words.

Anyway.

This dwarf.

[nethxibis]

Okay, fine, I'll talk about Justice/Vengeance. Some spoiler adjacent things included in this post for veilguard and other DA games.

Anders is convinced he ruined Justice by their joining, and I completely disagree. In the Fade, everything is fluid, changeable, and malleable. We know from DAtV and DAI that spirits can be "twisted against their purpose" and change from their "positive" aspect into their "negative" counterpart. I think there's more to this.

When we meet Mythal in the Crossroads, even though this is her "Retribution" manifestation, we can still impress her enough for her to show her Benevolent side. In my opinion, this hints that changing the states between the "good" and "bad" sides to spirits in dragon age is fluid just like the nature of the Fade itself, and easily done in their home environment. The lines between Determination and Spite, Justice and Vengeance, Wisdom and Pride are extremely blurry, and I think that in the Fade, those aspects can be easily flipped between.

In Crestwood in DAI, we meet a spirit extremely unhappy with the rigidity of the world outside the Fade, with things not bending to their will becoming incredibly frustrating. I am convinced that this rigidity of the waking world is what makes switching states for spirits nearly impossible, almost locking them in either the spirit (good) or demonic (bad) manifestation of their aspect. This rigidity in itself IS what "corrupts" good spirits.

When Justice is first ejected from the Fade, he probably is in his more vengeful state of mind - chased out of his home, with no way back. I believe that the second he crossed over, he became somewhat locked in that partially demonic manifestation. Firstly, his personal quest in DAO is literally to take vengeance on whoever killed Kristoff. This is no Justice. Furthermore, he expresses a wish - normally, spirits should not have wants, yet he asks the Warden Commander for a lyrium ring. Spirits should also not be possessing anybody, that is the domain of demons. When Cole comes over from the Fade in his Compassionate state, he does not possess the body of the original Cole, he makes himself manifest in his image instead. Justice, however, chooses to possess both Kristoff's body and later Anders.

All in all, I believe Anders had little to do with Justice's corruption into Vengeance, Justice was lost to it the second he crossed the veil. Perhaps in time, he may have learned to tune into his more "just" self - like Spite can when he agrees on a plan with Lucanis to save Caterina, which has not an ounce of spite to it, only Determination. But being stuck in a city built on blood magic, in the worst slum of said city, surrounded by everyday injustices and Anders' own need to avenge Karl and other mages, there was no chance for him to learn to cope better in this ugly, rigid world.

DAO Baroness, when I catch you... She ruined my boys :(

[stop-breaking-my-heart-dragonage]

You mentioned you romanced Lucanis, how do you feel about Neve x Lucanis getting together if you don't romance either of them?

It's fine, I guess.

I romanced Davrin on my first playthrough, and I'll be honest, Neve and Lucanis getting together came out of no where for me. After the scene played, I realized that I rarely had them together in my party, and if I had, it'd probably make more sense. Or have more chemistry.

I left that scene like, "...What just happened? Oh well, good for them, I guess, have fun!"

I had Neve in my party a lot [Davrin and Neve were my go-to duo], and Lucanis was unfortunately benched until it was time to do his quests... which is really ironic, like if you had asked me who my least favorite companion was at the end of that first playthrough, it would've been Lucanis.

It doesn't help that I saved Minrathous, so I missed out on some of his personal quests, too.

I didn't dislike him or anything... though learning about Spite did have me throw him off the table of potential love interests because that Anders Romance Trauma [affectionate] kicked in and I said, "noooooo, I'm not doing that again, you cannot make meeee-"

Which, again.... ironic. Because he crawled his way back onto the table and made me feel things. It healed some parts of me. But also did more damage. It's complicated, like being an andersmancer makes it a whole other discussion for another day.

I will say, I saw a lot of talk about Neve and Lucanis prior to doing his romance which made me wonder if it was another Isabela and Fenris "Isabela bad because she USES Fenris if you don't romance him" situation where players are weirdly jealous and take it out on the female character... which uh oh.

Yeah, I can honestly say I never felt "threatened" by Neve while pursuing Lucanis. I brought them out and about several times, waited to see if they'd flirt or anything, or give me a reason to feel that he liked her more than my Rook, and like... It's not just a Neve and Lucanis thing.

It's more to do with Rook feeling like an outsider within the group who isn't allowed to interact with their companions until the game tells them to. Walking around the lighthouse feels really lonely sometimes because you're just approaching your friends, listening to their conversations, and then they look at you like "....can we help you?" and you just... walk away. Also the visual during team meetings where everyone is sitting together with Rook on the other side by themselves with only Assan sitting at their feet...

...again, topic for another day.

Anyway, aside from that? No, I never felt like they crossed a line for me that would make feel like they liked each other better than Rook. If there is banter that does, then I didn't get it.

There was this really sweet banter after I locked his romance in though, the one where Neve commented on Lucanis smiling more and making sure he recognizes that he's happy with Rook. That only endeared me to Neve more than I already was, I adore her.

But if I'm not romancing either of them? Let them have their fun, y'know?

[thingsidrawgohere]

I just finished my first run of DA4 and let me say- I probably got my money's worth. If one wants to view the experience via a purely mercantile lens. I found many bits of cheese and touched the insides of many angry creatures. But if one wishes to frame the thing as Art- Hell, if one wants to solely discuss it as the Fourth in a series of lore-dense, narrative RPGs, then, Cousin, We've Got Problems. Three interconnected niggling ideas that kinda all lead to the conclusion- for me, at least- that modern design practices simply do not trust the player. News flash, right?

Anyways, I think I'm going to have some thoughts on this subject to avoid other thoughts, thank you.

Full-Throated Spoilers Beyond. And a lot of them. It's long.

Idea 1: DA2 is my favorite of the series. That's not the problem; it's the setup. I know what I'm about and it's interesting characters interacting over time. Flawed characters. Abrasive, opinionated, STUPID ASS ANDERS characters. The story was scaled well for a handful of total losers and it was political. The most humanly political of all the games, I think. That's a very low bar, particularly for AAA, but it felt better to stand in a street, to be personally effected by events, than to look at a literal map of icons and notes and distant decisions as in DA3. It's important, I think, for DA to be about Being, Getting Dirty. You aren't a king. You shouldn't be.

Side Note 1: DA2 is a fucking miracle. The old gag that FO New Vegas, blessed be, was made in 18 months is trotted out to display Can-Do Attitude and DEEPLY unethical labor practices. DA2 got less time, fewer reusable assets (due to a different art style), and had to rebuild most of the engine. A. Miracle.

DA4, on the other hand, has a series of supportive, well-adapted people who have all worked very hard on themselves in therapy and know all the fucking right words to say. They chat with one another with kindness and sober fondness. In the One Instance of interpersonal friction, it is resolved with grace and speed. I find this Horrid. They fucking forgot to give these people negative traits. It's likability slurry. They experience no hard growth, hold no horseshit ideas, suffer no lingering doubts. It's not only unnatural but it's lifeless. It becomes Written. I can see the fucking author waving at me. I've got a note from my run that reads 'Rook told the man who is forcibly living inside his head "Thank you sharing that" and I want to scream.'

And that would be bad enough except the ideas are there. You've got a reluctant father story. Someone trapped between two cultures. A older man, already terrified of aging, of death, taking a Much Younger lover. That's Fucking Meat. I can see the writers straining against something but what they deliver is still person-shaped missed opportunities that repeat, that repeat, that repeat. It's So Frustrating. There's flashes of Good Writing. Of good character beats. But Also- from my notes, a character had just held her brother as he died, inexplicably for a second time, and Rook gives her a little pep talk that ends with him asking "You good?"

And the fucking woman says "I'm good" in response. She seemed to mean it.

How does one- react to that as a viewer? I told a man who wanted to be a lich more than anything to Not and he was cool with it. He never brought up being a lich again. He wasn't even upset. I let a man's city die and he's like I Get It, Bro. No Harsh Vibes. It rings hollow.

Talking over Solas' memories, collectively pulling out the meaning behind them- that was some of the best characters-interacting writing in the whole thing. And it's HOURS into the game. A shame.

Side Note 2: A lot of a loved-one death as motivation in this old refrigerator. If you get a name and one line, Oh Boy Brother, you are prolly gonna die bad. Lazy.

If I'm going to talk about Emmrich, let's talk about his romance. I honestly thought it was bugged. I Am playing through another run as a comparative but Wow. Larian and BG3 absolutely reconfigured what's acceptable in these types of story beats. This particular romance felt regressive, in a sense. Like a last minute addition. The very definition of love coins. No charisma or honest affection between the characters. Nothing allowed to percolate (more on that in a second). Just- now you are ROMANCED. Which means on the Blue Moon instance he has anything to say regarding being in a relationship, the best you can get is a 'dearest' at the end of a sentence. I was Excited by the idea of Emmrich really struggling with a May/December situation but he Doesn't. He has a few lines implying that he Could but it leads nowhere.

And they fuck in a coffin (???) and it's not even hot (!!!). Unforgivable. Double Unforgivable. I heard there was spice in this game? This is baking soda.

Related, a few lines awkwardly dodged the question of Emmrich's previous relationships and I have an inkling, without experiencing the other romances, that this is the world's largest case of gun-shy after the backlash with DA3's non-playersexual romances. This man can not be confirmed to be Anything but Into Rook, whatever they might be. There was also a throwaway line with Taash how she prefers women and that's as much as I saw of explicit preferences. I don't envy anyone trying to address the rabidity of fandom but it feels like unnecessary acrobatics.

Side Oh No: It's so bad that I'm honestly thinking of doing a fixit fic regarding the romance/character writing. And God, I can't right now. I have to finish my other project first.

Idea 2: The pacing. That's what ruins so much. There was a scene of a gnarled, fucked-up gate, torn from its hinges. And my guy says "Something Big must have torn apart that gate" all ominous, building a sense of- Nope. The very big darkspawn is standing ten feet away on the other side. I hadn't even swung the camera around the hall to see it before my guy goes "That big darkspawn must have torn apart the gate!"

Yes, I know there's an issue in open world games these days wherein devs are allergic to a player's millisecond of not knowing where to go but this feels applicable across the whole game. A problem isn't allowed to fester. It is brought to attention and then swiftly dealt with. If there's a locked door, a difficult decision, a feeling beyond Protestant determination, it will be dealt with, Post Fucking Haste. It's like the game doesn't trust the player to hold tension.

This happens not just in barks or small set pieces. Whole arcs work this way. Like Harding's longterm personal quest. She gets a handful of lines about feeling vaguely angry or perhaps thinking she Should be More angry about Lore Dump Retcon and then at her culmination, she's fighting her own anger. A vicious, hot, searing thing- and it wasn't earned. At all. There was room to telegraph this theme, bury it in the dirt to let grow roots. They didn't. One Line was given about her people pleasing tendencies And she's not really shown to be people pleasing to her own detriment. This is Chekhov's Gun in running shoes. It doesn't work. It feels like it comes out of left field.

Hell, there was a mission that was like SURVIVE IF YOU CAN and it was like- literally a long hallway. The Pacing is all Off.

Idea 3: I don't like that I must do this but DA4 doesn't understand its own flavor. The One Thing you Cannot Do is have Minrathous, the city of slaves and blood mages, seem nice. Particularly in the poor parts of town. You Cannot have the Crows be a lovely dovey band of scamps. You Cannot have the Blight be reversible. You Cannot CANNOT say "elves have it pretty good" as my Elvish Rook said with his face flaps. No. NO. You Cannot side-step the politics of this setting. These are the bones on which these characters are hung. To lessen the world is to lessen, to decomplexify them.

You know what my elf didn't hear in the town that canonically trades in bodies that look his? Knife ear. Eh to fantasy slurs but my point is no one said a cross word to my guy. The Qunari living in the town that had been warring with the Qunari for Centuries seemed totes fine. There were no alienages. There were no proper templars- even from other regions. No Mage Circles. No mage issues at all. Hardly anything whatsoever regarding the Chantry or Andrastianism, even as the game takes place in the Super Anti-Pope town. I had a literal demon-possessed man in my party and the world did not react.

I had a friend describe this Thedas as feeling smoothed out and Yeah. It feels like all the nasty bumps have been deemed undesirable. I don't know what to make of it. Is this simply taking the world in a different direction? Is it a mandate to tone down the unpleasantness, for sales? A shift in design ethos? Is this a sign of a very troubled project as it was with Andromeda?

I don't know. Is this still a Dragon Age game without its politics? There's enough here for me to wonder if Bioware is even Bioware anymore. There's a TREMENDOUS amount of work, of skill in DA4. Just Absurd. The environments are thick, Thicc. But work alone is not a virtue. Have we ship of Theseus'd so far that the people- the real people, not the logos- who have interests aligned with what made DA1 special are no longer there? Something went wrong with this project, narratively. Something I don't know how to fix without addressing basement level assumptions I'm clearly not privy to. I hope they can.

Final Thoughts: Game development is a fucking hole into which one pours one's relationships, time, and health, physical, mental both. It gives satisfaction very rarely. They shipped. In that way, huge success. It's not even, fundamentally, a 'bad game'. But it is a victim of a modern philosophy of pre-chewed ideas and player distrust. VGs are ultimately a business and, in these last few years, there's been a unimaginable devastation to the workers in the industry- even as the money flows ever upward. The desire to sell well has morphed into a NEED to sell well, even among the 'kept' studios. Big studios, Grand Dame Studios sitting on top of past critical and financial successes, been killed by their overlords recently. No one is safe. It's suddenly quite dangerous for large studios to make anything remotely niche, remotely unclear and Bioware has both Andromeda And Anthem under its belt. They're probably feeling the pinch. They needed a hit and hits, these days, are increasingly smooth. And DA4 is very smooth.

That's just my feeling on the matter. I'll see what a second run yields.

Smaller thoughts:

I don't care about the combat but that was- odd. The illusion of depth with all the skill trees and types of damage and subsystems of attack- all boiling down to a one button push. It's odd. I played rogue on PC so perhaps it's different for other classes, on console. But I pressed the button at the man and when I got a halo, I pressed another button and then pressed the first button again. No matter where I was on the skill tree, it never changed, never felt different. I don't know. It felt. Odd?

There was a Honest To God "It's quiet- Too quiet" and it just Happened. I would have pulled out every one of my teeth to avoid that. I get the jokey-okey but fuck, man.

Where's the chest hair? WHERE? Body hair? ANYTHING? Davrin has plastic chest. It's freaky.

Gloom Howler Gloom Howler Gloom Howler. Frankly, that whole storyline had a large gulg of the farcical. I laughed my ass entirely off when, upon her defeat, the Gloom Howler said "I'm sorry" and took a nap so hard that the scene wiped to 'some time later'. That was insane editing. PACING. And- naming. Gloom Howler. Gloom. Howler.

Teeth. Dear God, the teeth.

The devs were in a real pickle here, no doubt. My great sympathies. There's an Overwhelming abundance of world states that DA3 could have left on the board and I understand the balancing act between acknowledging the events of older games and staying generic enough DA4 could apply to All of them. Is Cassandra the White Divine? Or is Leliana? It's a nightmare of choices. Any of the people that Could be Divine can not be mentioned without lore issues. Who's on the throne in Orlais? Ferelden? Where's beloved so-and-so? Dorian canonically did return to Minrathous so he can 'safely' appear in game- but he fucking can't talk about Iron Bull, who may or may not be alive. Isabela canonically goes back to piracy but she can't talk about events in Kirkwall because she may not have been there for them. Oof. That's not a lot you are Allowed to acknowledge. The Poor Bastards.

Watched a braid slip off a person's shoulder, organically, as they were talking. Started at the bottom and look where we're at, technologically. And speaking on the technical, a lot of textures didn't load right. For the entire game, my guy's left shoulder armour thing had a much lower rez texture than the rest. Three hard crashes, which isn't the worst. One Wonderful mission wherein Lucanis' hair and his knives were the only bits of him to render.

I'm not touching the non-binary storyline. It was clunky, for sure, but the greatest sin was using Our words. There is canonical words for NGC/NB people in fiction and to not use them shows a fundamental distrust towards the source material and the players both. It's the linguistic version of the quest marker or the barks telling you where to go.

I still don't know how I feel about the dead Varric twist. Feels goofball but he got to hang out in his little pajamas. I wish I was in little pajamas.

Solas was pretty fucking tight but I think a lot of that was due to his VA. Something about the voice direction, in general, felt- flat? But old Solas was doing it good.

Ending. God, I get it. People are tired and satisfying endings are hard. And DLC exists, more cynically. But Hells Bells, I'm getting to the point wherein even the slideshow is annoying. Give me a fucking Ending to the Choice Game. Don't you fucking 'Spider-Man Will Return' at me, you bastard. I'm a child of fucking god.

Yes, I got the secret ending. I know. That was Also bullshit.

I feel better getting that all out of my system. Thank you for sharing that.

[wizardsix]

ok... so I have finally finished veilguard after about 90 painful hours (two playthroughs). im not gonna write an actual review about all of my detailed thoughts bc it'll actually take days, this is just to at least get my general thoughts out and see if anyone else feels the same or if ive actually lost it.

overall it is the weakest dragon age game story-wise, and I'd give it a nice lukewarm 4/10.

(i wrote this post right after I finished the game on the weekend so maybe I sound a bit harsh, I tried to edit it to be more reasonable lol but I didn't really want to delete this since I do still stand by a lot of this)

I really tried to go in with an open mind, bc I always want to experience media in full before making any kind of judgement, but about a few hours in I had this horrible feeling that once again this was another soulless, rushed game, and I still don't feel any different after finishing the game.

what stuck out to me was that there's no sense of urgency despite what the plot is, serious topics are not treated with care as the writing overall is shallow, and the gods as well as any other enemy you encounter are just cartoon villains (and apparently the lore retconning, but I'm not well-versed enough to dissect that so I won't).

I can't take this plot seriously when it feels so disjointed and forced and lazy. and I see no point in caring about anything when choices literally don't matter. no say in who you recruit, no say in the relationships with them and they have almost no awareness of rook, definitely doesn't matter if you have allies or not bc they show up anyway, and only four companions are locked into unavoidable decisions where one of them bites the dust no matter what (which is strange bc why are harding and davrin forced to die no matter if they're at hero status while bellara and neve can literally survive blight if they're at hero status), so it's impossible to try to strategize for better (or worse) outcomes with all the people you've gathered when there's only one right answer that the game pretty much tells you instead of letting you think for yourself (and side note this game does an incredible amount of hand holding). the game actively tries to trick you into thinking your choices matter with the onscreen notifications, but nothing matters bc the devs clearly had only one story in mind and for some reason lied that it had "complex choices".

also rook in general wasn't interesting as a protagonist bc they were written to be perfect. they always know what to say and are so supportive of everyone. they never struggle with anything. not even with leadership beyond "man leading a team is hard :/" but it doesn't actually show how hard it is by having actual volatile conflict between the companions* or showing how their plans sometimes fail. which, if we actually had choices that mattered, would have helped develop that struggle. also? what's with everyone being so friendly? I'm not gonna get into that but everyone is so eerily nice and it's been said a lot but yeah, the world is extremely sanitized and devoid of any real conflict aside from the gods I guess.

*(like off the top of my head cassandra fighting with varric and accusing him of not being on their side or how the inquisitor can literally punch dorian and solas if approval is low enough or fenris and anders bordering on killing each other is not the same as lucanis and davrin distrusting each other or people being uncomfortable with emmrich's necromancy. it just scratches the surface of conflict and never goes anywhere)

and let me say real quick again, there's nothing wrong if they wanted to make a more rigid story about being a hero. it's been done a million times and it can be executed well, but if you do that you need to make sure you 1) don't lie to people and 2) actually flesh out your (especially main) characters and plot to give people a reason to care. look at dragon age 2. hawke is a fixed protagonist with their own life front and center. they ultimately only have two choices (siding with mages or templars), but it works bc the game took time to build up the conflict straight from act 1 so by the time chaos happens in act 2 and 3 you understand why bc it's Been brewing the whole time. it just makes sense. the villains as well have sound reasons and feel real instead of being evil just bc. the story is more grounded, yet you have choices. you decide if hawke ends up alone or not. you decide how they approach situations with force or diplomacy. there's none of that in veilguard. a game that supposedly took 10 years to make. when dragon age 2 took almost 16 months (yes I know da2 also has problems like the fact that the templars are always proven right but this isn't the place to dissect that).

I want to be fair though and I do want to restate what I enjoyed about the game. the cc (though would it kill them to have more variety in face textures like age and body types beyond average.. also no colour wheel... especially since they claimed their cc was so good), the map progression/visuals/exploration (how certain places become more blighted overtime), the factions (though I feel there should have been more content for your faction, and helping them or not should have mattered more), the combat (did not feel like a slog, pretty fun and mindless), the companions (bellara, davrin, emmrich, harding, and lucanis had solid personalities and stories despite my complaints. neve was not memorable and I just feel sad for taash's bad writing), certain parts of the story were good, the intro and the point of no return sequences were solid, and the ending didn't feel rushed or boring compared to inquisition. and yes, I do appreciate that rook can be trans, I just think a little more subtly and care would've been nice.

another thing I did like and predicted was that varric died at the beginning of veilguard, and for a second I actually enjoyed that because i thought we were finally (a bit too late tho) getting some depth to rook and their own struggles of accepting his death and carrying this weight without him. and while I do think maybe they should've taken more time to establish the mentor/mentee relationship so we really feel rooks regret, I still think it was at least the right direction where in their grief they still see him, giving advice and narrating their journey.....but then it turned out to just be solas manipulating them the whole time, immediately destroying any emotional weight this reveal had.

whenever bioware has good ideas they shoot themselves in the foot and make it about solas. it's like nothing in the world exists without solas being involved somehow, and that is just incredibly boring and uninspired to me. not to mention solas just being an insufferable ass the whole time, which is fine, but it's not even in a compelling way like he used to be. he became so ugly by the end and the fact that the devs consider redeeming him the "good ending" and not giving him what he deserves is very telling and once again shows their own bias is king over good storytelling (solas' feelings should not come into play here, whether you/your companions live or die should determine good/bad ending since solas is trapped no matter what, only difference is who is trapped with him. idk but I personally think different endings actually means different outcomes). i will not go into the bs of the secret post credit scene, bc frankly I'm fed up with bioware's shitty writing and I won't be playing their next world ending space aliens game (unless they miraculously pull a good story out of their ass but lbr).

overall the bad outweighs the good for me. it's fun to play as a game, it's a decent fantasy game, but the story just doesn't do anything for me. sometimes I wonder if dreadwolf was a completely different game and was scrapped for veilguard last minute. maybe this was yet another inevitable industry fuck up and maybe there was a good story planned at one point. idk. all I know is bioware lied. respect and credit to the poor devs and writers who actually cared and to those who were kicked from the project, but in the end bioware promised too much and delivered too little.

[notebooks-and-laptops]

Hi!! I absolutely love your analysis on Veilguard, and I also love Sten, so how do you think he would fit in the game? What would his presence change? Like you said, it could give us a sympathetic point of view on the Qun (and maybe some Taash and Sten interactions?)

HELLO its been a while since you sent this but please know I've been thinking about it near constantly and have finally pulled my thoughts together into something coherent. I have a couple of 'options'; one involves the game basically maintaining the same quality but being a tad better rounded for the qunari, the other is if they actually took Sten and all he represents seriously.

Option one: Faction Leader

Look so here is the thing. There is no reason why the game, as is, could not incorporate a 'Qun' faction. It would actually be really fun; I've wanted to play as a member of the Qun since DA2 and I know so many of us have Qun headcanons for our Adaar or their parents. Unlike the other backgrounds that seem to be more suited to particular races, the Qun is literally a state/religion/philosophy and thus any race could be a member (we know for certain plenty of elves defect to the qun and I'm sure humans and dwarfs do as well). (I do think this faction would need to seriously consider whether or not it allows for a 'mage' class, because it would be a lot of work to explain why a Saraabas is allowed to just be walking about. They could pose it as their mage came into their powers late and when they were found out immediately left with Varric, but thats the only way I could see it not being a potential pressure point)

Sten thus slots into the game here as a faction leader; he is the Arishock. We see a different side to the Qun; those antam who did not leave it behind. We get to hang out with some Ben'Hassrath as well. In my ideally world the other faction leader in this scenrio would be Tallis, who has regained her place within the Qun (but I'm biased because I'm in love with Tallis). But you could also have Gatt because I think he's quite an interesting character, would call Neve out on being Tevinter, wouldn't let you easily look away from slavery AND I feel his bitterness, anger...its so fun, I wish we'd gotten more of him, I want him back.

The thing is....this game wants to treat the qun better, I think. But in doing so they ignore parts of the qun that genuinely were interesting culturally (Saarabas - god that one da2 quest kills me every time) and also...we don't MEET anyone who is really representaitve of the qun. Taash is there, but her questline of 'I can accept non-binary but I draw the line at multicultural' is...questionable to say the least, and from the stats it seems most people push her towards Rivan anyway. Shathann is from the qun and still holds it as important, but she feels more of a plot device to tell Taash's story than anything else. We've got the Qunari on the beach who tells the weather, but again, its not the Qun as a whole.

And to replace the 'evil' Qun we just get the 'evil' Antam. Who are now equipped with growling and turning into horrible beasts so. That's uh. something.

So actually having a qun faction, maybe letting us see Par Vollon, letting us interact with people there who actually live under the qun, letting us see Sten...it would be really interesting. And further, Sten being involved in this game makes perfect sense. Who is the Qunari going to send when it realises that they have a double blight on their hands? Probably the guy who actually fought in the fifth blight and helped finish it. You can also easily retcon any Sten death by saying he somehow got out of the cage and made his way on his own - its not perfect but it'll do considering the same is done with Isabela for DA2.

And Sten links us to DAO. In da2 we had Anders, Lothering, Flemeth, Merrill, Isabella...a lot linked us back to Fereden and DAO. In Dai we had Varric and Cassandra back from DA2 (as well as Hawke) and we had Leliana and Morrigan and potentially Loghain/Alistair back from DAO. Morrigan IS in DATV as a kinda link back to dao but she's not really around in that capacity here. Sten could talk about Ferelden, the blight, all of that stuff.

AND are the qun really just...standing by and letting the antam do whatever? they haven't sent ANYONE after them? Haven't tried to stop them in any way? There's no Antam who didn't defect? I don't know man, I really dislike the way the Antam are portrayed in this game. It really just feels it was done the way it is so the writers could pull a 'well we aren't saying ALL qunari are like this, just these ones'.

So just. Give us a qun faction. Let me play it out. I'm sure they'd handle it about as well as any other faction, but it would at least I think allow them to explore the Qun better than the Lords of Fortune do.

I also think this would mean Taash has a qun presense that isn't demonised and isn't their mother, which would really help them. They could go talk to the shadow dragons AND they could go talk to Sten. Bonus points if Sten assumes their a man to start with because they fight. BONUS BONUS points if we can get more on the qunari and gender.

The Better Option: Butcher, the Dragon King, The Qunari, and The Blight

OKAY SO the Butcher. I want Sten to be the Butchers like, narrative foil.

Because here me out, the Butcher should be SO MUCH MORE INVOLVED IN DATV. Other than Ghilian'han and Isseya (and maaaaybe Illario) he's the interesting villian this game gives us and he's just GONE SO QUICKLY. He's the opposite of the Arishock; he came to this city and instead of dispising it he FELL IN LOVE WITH IT. How fun!

Meanwhile, the Dragon King SUCKS. I wrote a whole post on that which you can find here but basically bleh, he's poorly written and poorly thought out. So lets just get rid of the Dragon King, and have the Butcher be our main Qunari/antam antagonist. Then lets have Sten here as someone who ALSO fell in love with a different place (Ferelden) but went home anyway, who went back to duty, who worries in the privacy of his own mind, about what it would mean if Ferelden fell to the Qun.

But also....as the Butcher is becoming less and less a follower of the Qun while believing hes doing right by the anatam...have sten ACTUALLY follow the Qun. I want to know more about Kosslon the prohet I really thought this game would give us that and it never did. I want to know about the Qun from someone who yeah has been travelling but who never really left it like Bull does.

I think this would also allow the crows to breathe a bit more because we could get some questioning around if the crows really ARE a good option for Treviso. Is the qun? Are both bad? Maybe both are bad? Annnnddddd now I'm thinking about how nicely this could dove-tail into a Zev cameo with Sten bringing him in.

I think Sten would also be really important for the blight as detailed above, but equally...I think having Sten react to the blight being basically the fault of a bunch of powerful mages? Thats an important perspective here! God, DAI goes out of its way to be like 'can mages be trusted' and even makes the alternative future of a pro mage character become anti-mage (leliana from the alternaitve future my beloved). But in DATV there is absolutely NOBODY who says mages are fucking things up - not even Varric who canonically is absolutely sick of mages and templars.

So Sten can do that for us because Qunari don't trust magic. And Sten can also play of Davrin for blight stuff (I think Davrin would have so many questions).

And like most legacy characters, if taken seriously...Sten offers us a chance to get rid of all this sanitisation because Sten is a complex character who has complex opinions on mages, who literally killed a whole family, who loves his homeland and the qun but has a soft spot for ferelden. Sten who will encourage you to get rid of all the mages in the mage tower, and who will see a lot of your do-goodery as a waste of time against the larger goal, but who also likes order and will defer to you as the leader.

Anyway thank you for the ask! Sorry for the long response. I love Sten though and think he should have been here.

[explodingchantry]

I have a video essay planned for my opinions on the confused (not confusing, but confused) politics of dragon age and it will be like 7 hours long with only 3 views but it will be the best essay I'll ever write. As part of it I want to include sth interesting I've realized in my da2 replay: that of the different ways the qunari conflict and the mage conflict are written.

See, both conflicts are meant to be nuanced but actually have a pretty clear answer based on our own real life liberal ideals. For the qunari conflict, the ideal is "don't be fucking racist": characters who are openly bigoted against the qunari such as sister petrice are ridiculed by the narrative, which is obvious in the framing of all quests in which she takes part and in the dialogue and within the game itself; the enemies you fight which aid her are called "fanatics" and "mob" within the game. It is nuanced in that the qunari aren't exactly... Friendly, and they have a history of colonialism of their own, but the narrative is actually still pretty black and white. They remained peaceful for 4 years in spite of numerous provocation, until their literal most important cultural and religious artifact was refused to them which led them to violence to retrieve it. It's nuanced because it isn't "the qunari are fully innocent" but also isn't "the qunaris are cunts and the racism was warranted". The qunaris are people with flaws that deserve criticism outside of the fact that they're qunaris. The narrative is very clear that those who hate qunaris on principle are bigoted idiots.

For mages, and furthermore anders, suddenly the narrative is more muddled. You could argue it's because the situation is more complex, and in some ways you'd be right. But I was shocked upon my replay of how often anders' sanity is put in question. How even a hawke who ROMANCED HIM will call him deeply troubled to defend him, or downright call him crazy... Once again whilst defending him. The latter is admittedly partly due to purple hawke options sometimes just being.... Downright disrespectful and mean, but it remains striking. Even more so when you note how often anders' rejection of templars and the chantry are rejected by other characters, including mages themselves, whilst fenris' vitriolic hatred of ALL MAGES REGARDLESS OF BACKGROUND is only challenged by anders - who, again, gets his sanity questioned several times throughout the game, minimizing the perceived value of his opinions - and potentially hawke, sometimes, in a few dialogue options.

And don't even get me started on the whole blood magic portrayal lol.

You could attempt to say that, well, while the writers wanted the qunari conflict to have a clear answer, they didn't want it to be the case for mages. But.... Did they really? At the end of the game Orsino's stupid blood magic blob monster transformation is very obviously framed as tragic, meanwhile again Meredith's sanity is shown to have been compromised the whole time which puts every one of her previous actions into question. I'm pretty confident in my opinion that the writers likely meant the message to be "the mage/templar conflict in general isn't black and white but in this instance siding with Meredith is obviously wrong" (as a note: it is far more black and white than the narrative pretends it is and mages should be free, obviously.) this is backed up by the fact that, you know, SHE WAS THE FINAL BOSS AND WAS CORRUPTED BY RED LYRIUM.

There's a better, deeper discussion to be had regarding dissecting those two narrative threads and observing how the writers' bias affect both, I think. Because as soon as you try to say the writers write certain characters OOC or show negative bias towards a certain group, like mages, people will try to spin it as it being because the writers want to present a nuanced issue. The thing is that, yes, they are trying to do that - but they are doing it in an imbalanced, biased, and sometimes downright mean spirited way. Because I haven't even touched on how everyone refers to anders, even when they refer to him positively. There's always a but. Even deeply sympathetic characters disapprove of his activism. That sways the balance the writers apparently attempted to have. It sways it pretty fucking badly.