#ooc: if there is a batkid you want included

[officialbruciewayne]

so, do you have a favorite son? i hear you have several

(asking for a friend, of course)

I see. I wonder if we have similar friends.

I suppose now is as good a time as any to teach Red Robin a little about fatherhood. I'm old, so I'm entitled to a little bit of rambling, so I hope you indulge me, Red Robin.

People often say your children are a reflection of yourself, but I strongly suspect those people do not have children. Or if they do, then they are missing out on really understanding their children.

They certainly do not have my children.

Not one of my children is a reflection. They are a vision. It is like witnessing the dawn- no matter how many different sunrises I see in my life, I am humbled every time.

In order of how I received my blessings, because I must put it in an order, and chronologically is at least a logical place to start. My apologies Duke.

Dick, my eldest. I see in him integrity, love and hope. When I think of the future, I see his face. His parents would be so proud of him and so am I. He gave me the gift of his childhood, and I will love him forever.

Although James is really her father, I still consider Babs to be my first daughter. Her understanding and her vibrancy are her gifts to the world, and I am lucky to know her. I think the entire world is.

Jay deserved better from me. All my children do, but especially Jaylad. Despite my many missteps with him, I am coming to understand the strong, loving man my son has become. Something he did without my help.

Timmy was the best surprise of my life. His brilliance, his kindness, his insight and his courage... all of these things came into my life at a time when I didn't know how to appreciate these gifts. I owe my life to Timmy.

I don't know if Steph sees me as a father to her. She and I do not work well together, and I've used that as an excuse to dismiss her. It is through other's eyes that I am discovering that what I saw as stubbornness and impulsivity is determination and fearlessness.

Cass is... ah I miss her sometimes, but how can I not be proud to see her become more than she ever believed she might be? She is sweet, and she is funny, and she deserves the world. I would tear this city down to keep her safe.

Damian is... I feel I have missed so much of his life. It is private, but Damian's beginning in life was very harsh. I wondered for a long time who he would have been if I had known about him sooner, but that regret keeps me from understanding the son I do have. A child with more love than he has ever been taught what to do with.

And Lena, my darling. She came back into my life then- and it is a miracle that she did. A miracle that she was not lost to me forever. I fear sometimes that she is. That I failed to protect her heart. It's not that I want to earn her trust, I want to teach her how to trust again, build it up within her.

Harper is maybe... another who does not see me as a parent. She has built a family for herself with Cullen, but I want her to know I see her. I see her bravery. Her and Cullen are my kids too, at least to me. The strength of finding and fighting for your family is something I cherish.

Many of my kids have complicated relationships with their own families, and that is part of why legal adoption is not always what a child needs. Duke has come into my life after experiencing tragedy and he needs to know that the world has not ended, that his parents will recover, and that I am not replacing his dad. But he is still my son, and I hope he knows that.

It is fairly... well documented that I experienced the loss of my own parents at a young age. I have tried to be the man that I needed that night. To each and every child that needs me.

I hope this answers whatever question you really wanted to ask Red Robin. Thank you for the opportunity to talk about my little flock.

[bestangelofall]

(inspired by that post you were talking about + other comments I’ve noticed around recently) I think it’s funny how people will conflate the word “abuse” with “assault” to make Jason look extra bad (he did not abuse Mia or Tim. He is not in an intimate relationship with them. He’s an enemy that attacked them, these are superhero comics you would not call Two Face Dick’s “abuser” be serious for one moment), but when it comes to situations where there is a relationship with an ingrained power imbalance (Bruce and his children for example), nobody knows how to use the word “abuse” anymore

People can't simply say they dislike a character because they don't vibe with them and that's it anymore. I just can't get behind that, personally. (But then again, for me, the worst sin a character can "committ" is being boring and uninteresting...)

Everything has to be dressed up in therapy speak and words that don't mean exactly what people think they mean... such as abuse, like you said, which would imply a power imbalance which does not exist between Jason and Mia or Jason and Tim (of course, though, if you want to write an *AU* where he gets into a relationship with either of those characters (or any other character), and abuses them due to the dynamic you're going to develop, I say go for it, you do you.)

Although *personally* I think it's kinda a bit out there to put Jason in the role of an abuser, tbh... he doesn't really have that kind of power over anyone (arguably he has over Bruce, but does he really? I think you could write him that way in fic and it would be reasonable depending on how you write it, because Bruce is (very) susceptible to some kinds of moralistic manipulation, but in canon, of course, we only see the opposite where the dynamic of Jason and Bruce is concerned (or Bruce any of the other "batkids").

The damage to fandom's perception of Jason simply because in a lot of his official art he looks like a forty year old is so bad (though I don't particularly think he looked that old in the GA issues in particular, from what I remember). (Or because he's ugly too, let's not forget that DC (well, actually, not exclusive to DC by any means) is always pushing the ugliness = evilness thing. And like, Jason is so ugly in a lot of his comics, including UTH).

And the damage that Teen Titans Vol 3 29 caused for the experience of being a Jason fan is... [redacted]

Also, let me take the opportunity to say that I don't think either of those situations were OOC for Jason. I mean, not that I've heard that many opinions that the GA issues were OOC for him, but I definitely have seen a lot of "Titans Tower was OOC, Jason would never." (that difference is, of course, due to the fact that a lot more people care about Tim Drake than about Mia Dearden, because both situations are quite similar).

*CANON* Titans Tower, as it happened (i.e. Jason beat Tim, skill issue, Tim was sassing Jason *while* being beaten) was not OOC.

Going back to the "abuse" thing, and also to the age-difference that people love to stretch - Jason was treating both Mia and Tim as equals when going after them like that... there wasn't in any way a vibe of "going after kids because they are easy" (and of course, if we analyse these events from the standpoint of Jason having been dead + catatonic for a long period, in the meta we could propose that that sort of idea would've never even crossed his mind).

*ALSO* you do you, and you write anything you want in fanfic. Believe me, I'm not a stickler to canon in the fanfic I read/write in most fandoms I'm in (and even if I were, the "you write whatever you want" still stands). And fandom is fandom, so of course a thing like Teen Titans Vol 3 29 would be explored to hell and back in fanfic. I just complain a lot about it because, mind you, I nowadays filter out Tim's character tag (unless I'm in the mood to maybe look for a Jaytim fic that I can read, since, on average, the Tim/Jason fics are better characterized than Tim & Jason ones), and I still get sooooo many fics where Jason is angsting about "the horrors he committed" there. I guess that made me bitter. But oh well... it is what it is.

Thank you for the ask! And sorry for derailing lol

[nox140497]

The Waynes

Authors Note: So this is my first male reader insert..... and it's pretty bad....... so if you don't like it, don't read this one.

Summery: Dick and the others are slightly ooc (maybe not though) in this one. Ok, Dick's vvveeeerrryyyy ooc..... sorry... not sorry.

Warning : uhhh, language cause Jason's in this one.

Also, really long, sorry

Info: I mean you could be female but I'm gonna be using he/his/him if you guys want I'll do the female one of this too, let me know if you guys want that.

Background: You are m/n Queen son of Oliver Queen and Nyssa (spelling of that please?)Al Ghul. You, like your dad, 'brother' and 'cousin', are an archer however you have other powers too.

Control of all ellements including shadow and light.

Shapeshifting like Beastboy, you're not green though, all your animals are black.

Your favourite form is a large wolf that people believe is a dog when in civvies.

You are also half demon... thanks alot Ras...

You also have super speed like Barry who is your Godfather.

Your Suit is similar to Dick's though it is just black.

Nobody knows the batboys' secret IDs yet except for m/n in this one. Also Dick and m/n have been dating for 4 years and m/n is very protective of not just Dick but of all the batkids. The team doesn't know this though 'cause they don't show it as Nightwung and Ghost (if you have a better hero name for him please let me know cause i'm thinking he's going to pop up in alot of my other oneshots, pehaps another book, and I can't come up with anything better than that so please help), though they are close.

Dick Grayson is a clingy, cuddly teddy bear. .

They will sometimes flirt with one another.

Bruce trusts him with the birds 'cause he's technically Damians causin and part demon.

He is the only 'meta' allowed in Gotham.

Also the boys all listen to him and like to cuddle when they seek comfort or warmth. (He runs hotter than a normal human and can adjust his body temperature)

Also Dick has an accent that he hides as Nightwing and m/n absolutely adores it, Dick has no idea why.

Ages:

Batgirl:19

Nightwing:18

Red Hood: 16

Red Robin/Robin: 14

Robin: 10

Ghost: 19

Kidflash: 20

Artimis: 20

Miss Martian: 20

Supperboy: 21

Aqualad: 22

Beast boy: 15

Lagoonboy: 16

Wondergril: 14

Bumblebee: 21

Zatana: 21

Masterlist

Prompt List

-------------------------

Nightwin's P.O.V.

It's a normal day at the cave. We were all doing our own thing when the Zeta beam lit up.

'Recognized Batman 01'

Everybody groaned as the big bad bat entered and ordered us to the mission room.

I groaned softly as I looked at the screen and saw a family photo of us on it. I could hear 'Red' Robin do the same slightly behind me and m/n snickering softly beside me. I nudge m/n in the ribs rather harshly and hear him grunt softly in response and I smirk.

"Team, as you probably know, this is the Wayne family. Recently, the oldest, Richard Grayson-Wayne, has been receiving death threats..."

Out of the corner of my eye I see m/n get a dark look on his face as he glares darkly at the wall behind Bats. I also see a slight green glow behind the lenses of his mask. How others don't notice it is beyond me but whatever.

"and Bruce Wayne has asked for our help in protecting his kids." Bats finishes.

"So what? We have to babysit a bunch of rich brats?" Lagoonboy growls in question. Batman and m/n twitch slightly.

"Yes." Batman says blandly. "And Nightwing, Robin, and Ghost will not be joining you." He finishes, and all three of us do a doubble take mostly 'cause Ghost wasn't going on the mission.

"Excuse me?" M/N growled, stiffening beside me the glow behind his lenses intensifying slightly. I descreatly take his hand and squeeze before letting go.

"You have a more important mission." Bats said. M/n raised a questioning eyebrow. Bats just gives him a look, and he relaxes beside me and nods once. The glow of his eyes lessened but not disappearing.

"What, why do they get to sit this one out?" Wally whines childishly

"Because Nightwing and Robin are comming with me to try and find the source of the threats and as I said Ghost has a more important mission to attend to" Batman growled making the others take a step back. Wally just pouted. I heard m/n snort in amusement at his godbrother (godcousin?).

With that, batman walked back to the zeta tubes, and the three of us followed him out and to the batcave.

Recognized Batman 01

Recognized Nightwing B01

Recognized Ghost B02

Recognized Robin B12

"So what is this ever so important mission that I am supposed to have B?" M/n asked curriously, tilting his head slightly to the left as we all removed our masks.

"You're going to make sure that my boys don't kill each other before whoever this is gets the chance, as well as making sure that they don't kill the team." Bruce said as he sat down at the Batcomputer. M/n nodded, and mock saluted before turning to me and Tim with a smile.

I smiled back as we headed to the changing rooms and then upstairs. Tim slipped upstairs and into his room as we headed into the kitchen for a small snack ( he is a speedster after all) and then headed to the living room and calapsed onto one of the coutches, to cuddle and whatch tv until dinner.

At some point, I must have dozed off because the next thing I know, I'm being lightly shaken by my boyfriend.

"Dinner time, Dickiebird." He said softly, gently brushing hair out of my face.

I hum softly as I start getting up and stretch slightly. I hear a soft chuckle from beside me, and I blush lightly, looking over at the dark-haired boy.

"What?" I ask with my accent shining through earning a soft smile and a kiss from my boyfriend. He loves my accent. I don't know why.

"Nothing, my love. You're just cute when you wake up, that's all." He says in a soft voice, causing me to blush more. I hear another soft chuckle before I am pulled up along with him. That's one of the things that I love about him, despite almost being as tall (cough taller cough) and almost as muscular as Bruce he's always so soft and gentle with my brothers and I. Unless absolutely neccessery like when breaking up a fight and even then he never uses his full strength.

"Comon before Jay eats all the food." He says in an amused tone, and I chuckle slightly, following him into the dining room and the chaos that is a normal dinner at Wayne mannor.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

M/N P.O.V.

I woke up the next morning with my beautiful Bluebird cuddled up to me still blissfully asleep. I noticed a while ago that he sleeps better when he's with me, so I come over as much as I can. I mean, I do have my own place in Gothem and have been thinking about asking him to move in with me.

Buuuttt.......

He is only barely 18, and I really don't want DaddyBats breathing down my neck. Thank you very much.

Anyway I do need to go get some clothes and stuff at home but I'm so comfortable and I really do not want to get up and besides Dick's finally getting some sleep and I know if I move he will most likely wake up.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Still M/N P.O.V.

It's about an hour later that Dick starts to stir in my arms.

I smile and lightly run my fingers through his hair. He moans softly and snuggles closer to me.

"Good morning, my love." I say softly into his hair.

"Morning." He mumbles back.

"We should probably get up and go to breakfast before Alfred sends one of your brothers to get us." I say gently, rubbing his back.

"Mmhhnmmm." He hums back. I chuckle slightly and nuzzle his hair again before starting to move to get up.

"Mmmmm." He whined in protest, clinging to me like a koala and trying to keep me in bed with him. I chuckle again and run my fingers through his hair again.

"Com'on Dickie you need to get up and eat, and I need to go to my apartment to get my stuff." I say in a soft voice.

"Nnnoooo." He whines.

"Yyyeeesss." I say in the same tone. He lets go of me and crosses his arms with a pout, and I smile before pecking his lips.

He sighs dramatically and grabs my hand before following me out of bed and then downstairs to breakfast, where all the others already are. Bruce smiles at us from over his newspaper as everybody else just looks up at us. I smile back and thank Alfred as he places coffee and breakfast in front of Dick and I.

"The team will be here in about an hour, and then I will be leaving and leaving you boys in m/n's hands. Please behave and don't kill anyone." Bruce says once he puts the newspaper down.

"They know better than to try B. Don't worry, we'll be fine." I chuckle softly while being glared at by 3 sets of eyes. I turn to the three younger boys and raise an eyebrow at their glares. They flinch and turn back to their food. I spot an amused smile on Dick, Bruce, and even Alfred's faces.

After breakfast I peck Dick's lips and leave the manor to go and collect my things from home.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

By the time I return to the manor and slip in the front door unnoticed, I notice that the team is already here seeing as I can hear the chatter comming from the lounge room. I slip over to the door of the room after placing my things at the foot of the stairs to take up later and lean against the doorframe whatching silently. I notice a set of teal eyes as well as a set of steel blue eyes (Jason and Tim who are facing the door) flick up to see who was in the doorway. I also saw the other two birds stiffen a bit before relaxing when their brothers did nothing but return to watching the team.

Most of the team looks somewhat annoyed at having to be here, or maybe it's just Jason or Damian annoying them who knows. I smirk, waiting for someone other than the birds to notice me.

They do not.

I stand there for 10 minutes before clearing my throat and taking satisfaction in whatching them jump. I know the boys noticed me the minute I walked into the doorframe, and probably when I walked in the front door, but the rest definitely did not. They really do need more training.

The team stares or glares at me as Dick jumps up and practically throws himself into my arms.

"Some protection you lot are. If I wanted to kill you all, I could have." I snarled as I held Dick to my chest, and he snuggled into my neck.

"Ghost, what the hell are you doing here? Batman is gonna kill you when he finds out you aren't on that important mission he sent you on." Artimis growled through the now established mind link. I meerly raise an eybrow and scoop Dick up, making him squeak, and carry him inside and sit on the couch with Dick in my lap and the other 3 boys get up to curl up either beside me leaning on my shoulder (Tim and Dami) or sitting on the floor leaning on my legs (Jason).

"You can talk to me outside the link they know my secret identity." I sighed as I ran my fingers through Jays hair.

"THEY WHAT!!' The team exclaims. I feel Jason and Tim flinch a bit, and I run my hands through their hair to calm them down slightly. I meerly glare at the team.

"I've known them since Dick was adopted, so what? 10 years? 11? And as you can see, we're really close, so yes, they know my identity." I say slightly annoyed.

"11." Dick murmers softly, still snuggling into my chest, eyes closed. I smile softly and kiss his hair.

The team just sits and stares at me.

"Does Nightwing know your new plaything is a rich brat?" Wally asks through the link again.

"Yes." I drawl cooly. Sneering and glaring at the fact that he just called my boyfriend a brat and implying that he is meerly a plaything, an object.

Only I get to call him a brat.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Still M/N P.O.V.

It's been a week, and I want to stab something. Peferably someone on the team. They are infuriating. They won't leave the boys alone. It's getting on their nerves as well as mine, and worse, Zatana won't stop flirtting with Dick. Because of their frustration, I've had to break up more fights than I normally have to, and Dick's become even more clingy, not that I mind that, though. We have resorted to hiding in the cave, and I have considered taking them to my place instead, but that would result in DaddyBats breathing down my neck, and again, I don't want that. It doesn't help that they can't go out on patrol to let out their anger either.

I really hope Bruce finds this guy soon.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

M/N P.O.V

Ok so I swear to God if B doesn't hurry the hell up and get his ass back here soon I'm gonna cut a bitch or I'm gonna let Jason or Damian kill them. I can see that Dick is close to thinking the same thing. And THAT'S saying something because he's probably the most sensible of us. So if they continue this they're doomed.

We've taken to hiding in the Batcave more often because otherwise there's gonna be blood and alot of it, and it helps seeing as we can try and get a lead on the guy threatening my bird.

--------------------------------------------

The team being so invasive has messed with the boys' sleeping schedule, not that they had a very good one to begin with (Read, don't have one at all). They've all become more clingy because they're tired and while I don't mind the boys being clingy the snotty and down right rude comments from the team over the mind link are starting to get to me, to the point where if Dick isn't with me at all times I fear I might go Demon on them and nobody wants that. I know I won't hurt the boys if that happens, but still not something I want to happen.

Currently, the boys and I were cuddling on the couch while the team sat around the living room chatting over the mind link. I wasn't paying them much mind instead focusing on my own mind conversation with the birds, something the team didn't know I could do. Then again, the team doesn't know my full power . Not even my 'cousin' knows. Anyway, I wasn't really paying attention to the teams conversation until a comment caught my attention, and I tensed under Dick who was again in my lap.

"I don't see what n/n sees in that brat. I mean look at him I bet he can't do anything without n/n holding his hand. I mean he can do sooo much better than these rich fakers, the kid probably doesn't even love him and is using him, I mean look who raised the kid, Bruce Wayne is a playboy and his brats probably take after their father." My 'cousin' said through the link obviously forgetting that though I was not participating in the conversation I was still connected to the mind link and could infact hear them.

Dick looked at me when I tensed and noticed that my eyes were starting to glow green. He quickly shifted in his spot and wrapped both arms and legs around me to try and calm me down. Once I was calm enough I turned to the team and gave them a glare so powerful all of them shrank away from it.

"You have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe instead of judging them based on what the danm press says about them, do the intelligent thing and get to know them first." I snarled coldly through the link, and they all flinched. I got up with Dick still being a koala bear on my waist and walked out closely, followed by the other three birds.

[olivia-anderson-fanfic]

What do you think about people that hate Maribat

I'm pretty sure my opinion here is going to be controversial don't unfollow me pleaseeeee. I need external validation to surviveeeee.

Alright, I've done all I can to keep you guys. On to my opinion:

... I both do and don't get it.

For context, I'm a DC fan. It's why I have more DC references in the stuff I write than ML ones. It's why I usually write DC headcanons to wind down. Literally just yesterday I went to the store and bought like five comics and complained to my family about how I could never find any of the batkids in normal bookstores.

So, as a DC fan, I get it. It's annoying to scroll through the tags of one specific character and find a bunch of stuff that's only kind of related. Fellow Duke Thomas stans will know what it's like to look through his tag and see a bunch of stuff that doesn't even include him, it sucks. It's probably even more annoying for pure DC fans because they might not even like ML. Overall, yeah, I get it's annoying and I can only suggest blocking tags like 'maribat', 'ladybug', and 'marinette dupain-cheng' to try and help.

I also get the whole 'it's OOC' complaint on some levels... but it doesn't bother me all that much. There's so much canon that we all have to just pick and choose what we like. Some fans have a preference for hypercompetent!Dick Grayson, some like himbo!Dick, I think they're both fine as long as it fits the story being told. Dealing with different interpretations is just a part of being a DC fan.

But I also don't really get complaints like 'It's a kid show!' (see the RWBY and Fortnite crossovers) or 'It'll never happen' (yeah, obviously).

... I really don't know how to end this. Overall, I think people should be allowed to enjoy content however they want as long as it isn't harming anyone but I understand why pure DC and pure MLB fans would be annoyed. Both sides are valid in their interests and feelings and, as long as they aren't harassing each other on posts or in their inboxes, they're fine.

[m00nslippers]

Just a few more of Jason Todd’s feats (Part 2)

Part 1 | Part 2

This is continued from Part 1, where I went through most everything relevant in the Preboot-era for Jason that I’m aware of. The exception to that is the events of Countdown which does feature Jason but also had him fighting extra-dimensional people so there is not much relevance to the main DC universe, and Lost Days where he doesn’t fight anyone who has ever fought anyone else of note. Happily, Jason kept the vast majority of his stories as canon after the reboot, so the only things from Part One that are questionable are things that don’t take place in Batman comics. I totally forgot Nightwing: Brothers in Blood though so I’m adding it, even if it isn’t canon anymore.

As before, I’m listing the major fights where Jason fights against skilled vigilantes or assassins, basically people skilled/important enough that you can use the match to measure his ability, so I’m discounting fights with nobodies and goons and low tier vigilantes/criminals.

To reiterate from Part 1, Jason is often in a position to kill his opponents, so in many matches he could technically win at any point, but he chooses not to. In the New 52 and beyond Jason acts more as a hero/protagonist in many cases so he runs a lot less and fights other Bats less often. But as before in the case that he does run or the fight is inconclusive, I’m just going to call it a ‘tie’. I’m going to rate the outcome of matches as such:

Win - Jason kills, incapacitates, checkmates or otherwise defeats his opponent.

Tie with an advantage - Jason escapes or stops the fight with less damage than his opponent or having achieved more goals.

Tie - More or less an equal amount of damage, or goal achievement on both sides.

Tie with a disadvantage - Jason escapes or stops the fight with more damage than his opponent or not having achieved his goal.

Loss - Jason is captured, incapacitated, checkmated or otherwise defeated.

Let me just preface this by saying that many fights in the New 52/Rebirth, especially any instance where Jason fights alongside other batkids--especially Tim and Damian--Jason is purposefully made to look incompetent and the other superior, contrary to pretty much everything we know about Jason and Damian or Tim’s skills. Not that Tim or Damian are bad fighters, but Part 1 of this series makes it pretty damn clear that Jason is superior to both in skill/ability--which makes sense, he’s bigger and older and been fighting longer, there is no shame in that. So take the fights that involve them with a grain of salt, because most of them paint one or both characters as OOC. I usually try to be quick with the summaries of fights but I’m going to go into why some of these fights don’t make sense.

Nightwing: Brothers in Blood (1996)

Nightwing (Jason Todd) vs Nightwing (Dick Grayson)

Win - Jason actually saves Dick from falling off a building right before this, which Dick doesn’t really appreciate. They roll about fighting on the rooftop a bit with Jason seeming more playful while Dick is furious, ending in Dick hanging off the side of a building Lion-King style and Jason slashing his hand to drop him, effectively winning the fight.

Nightwing (Jason Todd) vs Nightwing (Dick Grayson)

Win - Dick leaps off a catwalk to try to fight Jason in civilian identity, which is silly but whatever. They trade some good blows but in the end, Jason knocks Dick out and escapes.

Batman, Incorporated (2012)

Wingman (Jason Todd), Redbird (Damian Wayne), The Hood and El Gaucho vs Merlyn, Sportsmaster, and thirty of the best League Assassins.

Win - Jason just walks through these guys. Damian shoots Merlyn with an arrow which was helpful but completely unnecessary and Jason electrocutes the guy. El Gaucho and The Hood help out but they struggle throughout. Jason casually takes out anyone who gets close. I only bother mentioning this fight at all because we are explicitly told these guys are THE BEST THIRTY assassins the League has, including named guys like Sportsmaster and it’s a joke. That is the level Jason is at.

Red Hood and The Outlaws (2011)

Red Hood and Starfire vs Lady Shiva, Manbats and Bronze Tiger

Tie with an advantage - Jason starts this fight chained to a pillar, which he gets out of in the blink of an eye. He then proceeds to punch out some manbats, gets in a fight with Lady Shiva, which he wins with a nerve strike, though it’s implied to be cheating by the dialogue, and then trades blows with Bronze Tiger. Granted, he gets in a tight spot with Bronze Tiger, for Star to jump in and assist. I’ll call it a tie, but anytime you take out Lady Godamn Shiva it’s a win.

Red Hood vs Ra’s Al Ghul

Win - This fight has more going on than just the martial arts, there’s magic Well of Sins/All-Caste stuff going on too, but generally speaking it’s a sword fight between Ra’s and Jason, in which Jason has the upper hand throughout and in the end he strike Ra’s down and strips him of the power of the Well of Sins.

Red Hood vs Ravager

Tie - Jason and Ravager are pretty evenly matched but it’s likely neither are trying their hardest because even after they stalemate each other, the fight ends and they go about their business.

Batman And Robin (2011)

Red Hood vs Robin (Damian Wayne)

Tie - By his own admission, Jason isn’t fighting his hardest against Damian. They exchange blows, Damian at one point has Jason at sword point, but Jason pulls an electrified baton like Nightwing’s, only Damian isn’t there, he’s escaped with his objective, which is Jason’s Red Hood helmet. So you may wonder why I classify this match as a tie when Damian seemed to get away with his objective. Well, it’s because Jason’s helmet can be remote detonated. Jason technically has Damian at a checkmate, but he’s not going to blow up his baby brother so I’d call this a tie.

Red Hood vs Batman

Tie - Jason is compromised through this whole fight but despite feeling betrayed and anxious he manages to hold it together pretty well. He and Bruce trade blows that results in a similar amount of damage but neither are really trying to win they just want to hurt each other. In the end, Jason is the one to decide to stop fighting and walk away.

Batman Eternal

Red Hood vs Batgirl (Barbara Gordon)

Loss - Even though Jason really is purposefully not hurting Barbara, because she’s been mind-whammied to think he’s the Joker, it still shows him getting his ass kicked more than it probably should. Basically Jason losses because he’s not trying to win. The win is waking Barb up, which he does, so it’s hard to tell how useful this fight is to gauge his abilities.

Batman & Robin Eternal

Red Hood vs Orphan (Cassandra Cain)

Win - Jason pretty clearly had the upper hand in this fight, though Cass gets some good hits in. Jason checkmates her twice, Cass breaks the first one when Jason is distracted on the phone with Dick, only for Jason to get her in another that could have resulted in real injury if Dick hadn’t stopped him from landing the blow.

Red Hood and Red Robin vs Bane

Tie with a disadvantage - First of all, Tim just gets in the way in this fight but it’s presented as if he is the smarter/superior fighter/strategist somehow. Jason gets a good hit or two on Bane even if he takes some bad hits too. But Tim straight up throws some birdarangs into Jason’s chest like an idiot and then when Bane manages to get Jason down, Tim pulls Jason’s gun and ‘checkmates’ Bane...except who in the hell believes Red Robin would actually pull the trigger to kill Bane? Nobody, so it’s a stalemate at best. This fight is dumb and Tim especially is written stupidly in this fight but I’d be remiss if I didn’t include it.

Red Hood and Red Robin vs Azrael

Tie with a disadvantage - This fight is less out of character but is still stupid. It shows Jason on the ground right at the beginning but doesn’t even show how/why that happened. Red Robin refuses to run when Jason tells him to, as if he’s going to have better luck against the guy, and jumps into the fight with Azrael. He knocks off his helmet somehow but then pretty much gets whooped, at which point Jason gets a good knock on Azrael, steals Tim and escapes.

Deathstroke (2014)

Red Hood vs Deathstroke

Win - Granted, Slade says his healing factor is compromised in this fight, but when it comes down to it, that doesn’t make him fight better, just bypass damage. They trade blows pretty evenly but as soon as Slade seems like he might get a real hit on Jason, our Jay just shoots him and it’s over.

Robin War

Red Hood vs Robin (Damian Wayne)

Loss -  This fight is short and completely stupid. Jason doesn’t land a hit, Damian essentially knocks him out with the ground.

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016)

Red Hood vs Artemis of Bana-Migdall

Tie - Artemis has an overwhelming strength advantage over Jason, shattering his helmet with one punch and deflecting his bullets, but Jason does manage to briefly knock her out with the tazer in his bodyarmor, which some might call a win, but considering he was on the ropes most of the fight seems like a reach. After this they team up, and the fight ends without a clear victor.

Red Hood and Artemis of Bana-Migdall vs Orphan, Azrael, Batwing and Clayface

Loss - Hey, remember those fights with Azrael before in that trash comic that shall not be named? This is a more accurate representation of Jason’s strength. Jason starts off fighting Batwing, Clayface and Azrael, which he seems to easily be able to handle individually and in twos, while Artemis takes on Orphan and gets a hit in on the other opponents when there are openings. The fight seems pretty well in hand until Bizarro is taken out, causing Jason to turn to save him, at which point Batwing tasers him with a shot in the back. Despite technically losing, Jason was clearly superior to any single fighter on the other side who participated.

Red Hood vs Batman

Loss - This is the only time Jason has ever outright lost to Batman, but he was compromised and rushed through the entire battle, having been trying to rescue his friends and then reacting to their presumed death. He made a few defensive maneuvers and counters but it was clear he wasn’t trying to fight, whereas Batman beat at Jason, even when he was checkmated. Despite being rescued by Arsenal at the end of the battle, Jason definitely lost, but it’s difficult to say how invested he was in winning to begin with.

Teen Titans (2018) Annual 1

Red Hood vs Robin (Damian Wayne)

Win -  Jason starts off the fight trying to avoid fighting or hurting Damian. He lets Damian get in a number of hits on him without retaliation, until Damian pulls some kind of box that seems to upset Jason enough to get a real fight going. At this point Jason destroys Damian, the kid really never had a chance. And Damian resorts to trying to stalemate Jason with a suicide bomb, which Jason calls Damian’s bluff on and just leaves the battle with Damian defeated.

Conclusions

Fights from the New 52 and onward involving Jason are inconsistent compared to those before the reboot.

In his own title he fights mostly within a team and has few solo fights with street-level martial artists to really gauge his abilities.

The few times he does though, it upholds the skill that he is shown to have in the preboot era, showing him defeat Lady Shiva, Ra’s Al Ghul and survive in a match against Bronze Tiger, Ravager and Artemis of Bana-Migdall.

Taking into account all of his feats, it’s pretty easy to point out which fights are outliers: every fight with Tim in Batman and Robin Eternal and the fight with Damian in Robin War. Some other fights in Batman Eternal are also suspect.

Before these instances Tim never really had much chance against Jason in past fights. He could get good hits but for the most part he was on the defensive and absolutely nothing has changed to make him suddenly superior enough to perform better in fights or treat Jason the way he does in those comic runs. Jason is just completely written out of character in those runs. He doesn’t even act like himself most of the time.

Similarly Damian beating Jason at all is stupid, especially since it’s later shown Jason is still superior enough to Damian to basically toy with him. Damian being shown easily defeating Tim is also dumb because Tim tends to do better against Jason than Damian so really Tim should be a slightly better fighter than Damian.

A number of other fights also show Jason not dodging big, clearly telegraphed punches or dive kicks that make him look really incompetent, and which he would never be shown getting hit with in his other appearances.

The only fight involving Jason in those comics I’m not dismissing out of hand is Jay vs Cass. Cassandra fans will probably be upset with Jason beating her, but with Jason easily beating Shiva, and Cassandra also shown beating Lady Shiva in Detective Comics, it’s consistent at least. I’m tempted to say she wasn’t really trying, but considering Jason was about to open her up, that would be a pretty dumb decision. Unlike Jason, all of Cassandra’s appearances from the preboot have been completely retconned, so you can’t take any of them into account in this new iteration of her.

Basically just anything involving Jason in Batman Eternal and Batman and Robin Eternal and Robin War is stupid and you shouldn’t base your idea of his character on either of those runs because they’ve proven themselves to be inconsistent with EVERYTHING ELSE EVER WRITTEN ABOUT HIM.

Honestly the only good thing about his appearances in those runs is he consistently has the best one-liners.