#offscreen as an offhanded mention.

[lemonlumens]

crazy that they literally got married and still don’t have a trust title

[nicollekidman]

curious what your expectations are for spuffy/spike in the buffy reboot. what would you want to see, and how do you think they should handle the fact that spike’s not in his 30s anymore? or would you rather they just leave him (and angel) out of it completely?

fears vs. expectations vs. hopes are all entirely different and all of them give me an equally fatal stomach ache anytime i try to articulate them so the only thing i’ll say is that i hope the ending note of the original series isn’t retconned or lessened by what they chose to do moving forward. also she needs a burn scar on her hand, THAT is nonnegotiable.

[hasarjunadoneanythingwrong]

so i've seen a post that says that you can't say that karna gets treated better than arjuna, and that karna is haunted by arjuna in the narrative. I can't reblog the post but I respectfully disagree with it and I'm going to explain why.

the first point is fate/apocrypha. in this, karna compares siegfried to an opponent he once knew during their duel. in the post, it's argued that he projected siegfried onto arjuna and that's now his main interest throughout the series. however, karna's main interest in the series isn't just seigfried (although he did want to fight him again, which is why he fights sieg) but rather to have strong battles in general. it's also ignoring his confrontations with vlad, his decision to stay with the red faction and why (to protect the master he is no longer contracted to) and his interactions with Semiramis and Amakusa. his comparison of siegfried with arjuna, while significant, is not so massive that you can accurately say that it negates every other aspect of his characterization in the story. the most important thing it achieved is that it makes him very interested in fighting him, and when he decides he wants siegfried as a rival and the saber dies he later challenges sieg as he can channel the warrior. its disingenuous to say that arjuna is haunting karna's narrative when he doesnt appear at all beyond a single offhand remark.

the next point is that arjuna gets the costumes. this one is just wrong? karna has two costumes, although i hesitate to call the second one a proper costume. Burning Garment of Three Gods is in fact the first free story costume you receive in fgo, unlike most other costumes which you receive through limited time events, and the glasses costume is from an event where he again gets a (minor) role. while both arjuna's alts have a costume each that doesnt negate karna having costumes?

the next thing is a bit rough. 'arjuna gets the character arcs in fgo.' this one is true. its also because arjuna is the fgo original and karna had 2 previous fate entries to receive characterization in, so him receiving it was less of an required focus than it was for a brand new character who had nothing. at the same time, i do agree that karna needs to have more done with him in the game.

the next one is also very rough. in it, the op mentions that arjuna got a lostbelt that karna received poor treatment in. I do agree that how karna was treated, namely being dead for most of the chapter and only brought back for one big battle before being killed again was very poor handling. however....arjuna alter was also really poorly handled? he was offscreen for most of the lostbelt, his motivations were both incredibly unclear and required you to have played the interlude of another ssr, he was given no depth of character or internal consistency, and they didnt give you any greater understanding of who he was or why he behaved the way he did. he is generally agreed among most fate fans to be the most weakly written of the lostbelt kings, and its in part because rather than tell us anything about arjuna's life, indian history or mythology, or the mahabharata, they once again retrod the karna vs arjuna plotline. just because he's the lostbelt king doesnt mean he was done better than karna-if anything, his treatment was potentially worse because while karna's one dimensional handling set him up as a noble hero, arjuna alter's set him up as an unreasonable villain. saying that karna is used as a crutch for arjuna requires also acknowledging how arjuna is constantly and consistently used to enhance karna since the minute he was added to fgo, which is how you get titles he was never called by like 'the endowned hero' (it may be a poor translation of one of his actual names, Dhanañjaya, which means one who conquered wealth and gold but i doubt it) and why one of the first things that's mentioned whenever arjuna shows up is that he killed karna, when thats only one of his achievements and not even the most notable one.

which brings me to my next point: karna is handled one dimensionally in fgo. but it is always as a misunderstood hero, and arjuna is primarily handled as his supporting cast, whether as a jealous villan or long suffering straightman. if you are going to show frustration at people who are glad arjuna got content independently of karna, you need to acknowledge that out of the 23 odd events and story chapters arjuna has showed up in, only around 5 have not also included karna and out of the 8 that arjuna alter has been in, only 4 have not had karna in them. karna has been in 27 events, and 9 have not included arjuna-its not a large amount, but its still the same amount that arjuna and his alter have put together without him. Arjuna in fate, especially at the time of his creation, existed as a supplementary unit to further enhance karna's story as a hero who was oppressed by others, which is how you get things like this

while both their profiles have a heavy focus on the other, karna's talks about his actual life and history to a far higher degree than arjuna's does, while arjuna's fully devolves into his resentment and dislike of karna. he was first as foremost written as 'karna's obsessive rival' to further expand karna and karna specifically, and the later focus on trying to give him more depth was because he was popular and they wanted to do more with him. there was no consideration for who he was historically or his real personality or feats, there was no consideration for what he actually was- they wrote him as a person who would, in his own words 'become the darkness' to karna's light simply for the sake of it

THAT is why fans of arjuna want more content of him independently of karna. is it true that karna has his own issues with his writing? yes! but that doesnt change the fact that for a very long time, arjuna has been twisted from his mythogical origins in fate to make him someone that he simply isnt, and thats what people want to see less of. no amount of poorly executed ssrs or events they both get shortchanged in to emphasis them hitting each other with sticks will change the base issue with arjuna's writing until fate acknowledges this.

and to be clear, i dont think its wrong to be upset that karna doesnt get a lot of in depth expansion in fgo. but that isn't the fault of arjuna, and it's really unfair to try and say that with how often arjuna has been used as a plot device to show how unfairly biased people are at karna

[gayhotpriests]

I'm glad you liked the finale but I figured I would throw my opposing thoughts into the ring on why most people (across social media, not just tumblr) didn't like it:

Eddie and Christopher didn't talk at all about returning to LA or even why Christopher left in the first place so there's absolutely no resolution to the El Paso storyline or the Kim thing. Chim just said "come back" - I'm glad Eddie is home too but what was this entire season for if that was how it was going to end?

Maddie had her baby offscreen which after all those "Athena has to help Maddie deliver the baby in a earthquake" theories passed around was kind of a letdown. Again, no emotional resonance. Personal preference here but I loathe the name and Athena's "Hi Bobby"

Chim and Athena needed a conversation but spent most of their screentime together trying to save cart guy and a random dude that the audience doesn't really care much about (I don't, at least) then a quick "Bobby would be proud". Nice I guess but there wasn't any reason for her to heal on the Chim situation that quick

The 118 was never truly in danger, Eddie saved Ravi and Buck in ten seconds. The zip line was cool but the stakes never rose so it didn't make me feel anything. The big moment was the 118 saving cart guy but their cohesion as a team in the field has never been in question, it's their cohesion as a family after Bobby that needed to be worked on and they're all still barely speaking to each other.

No resolution to the Buck and Eddie fight last episode regardless of a friendship or romance angle. Nothing on Tommy either. I could be okay with that because as you said, packed episode, but why do a Buddie PR tour right before it? If people's expectations were raised then it was because ABC did it on purpose knowing there was a fist bump at most. I didn't expect a kiss or a confession of love but I think it's fair that people were disappointed that there was literally no progress in their relationship on any level

Chim's speech was nice but ultimately empty because nothing has backed it up across multiple episodes. Mara's adoption was wonderful but it lasted all of six seconds. Bobby's death has barely been dealt with in any emotional way. Not one single storyline was given a satisfying conclusion. I'm glad Eddie is home but if that isn't built to then it's just blah. Ravi is nice but I 110% prefer Bobby so if the exchange was Ravi for Bobby then that's a gigantic negative to me

So yeah, sorry to spew in your inbox

my first reaction to this was like, okay but who even asked lmao. but that's on me since i'm irritable af lately sooooo let's discuss since you took your time to write this i guess

first of all i enjoyed the finale for reasons i'll be explaining and all the negativity i've been seeing online (only tumblr, because i don't mess with X) has really just. brought me down. as per usual. one of the things i used to like about 911 was the fandom, the sense of comunnity there was, and i really liked engaging with people here. lately though it feels as if nobody even fucking likes the show, all i see are complains and people angry at everything. and like, it's just a tv show, can't people just enjoy things nowadays? but maybe that's just a me thing.

anyway the post got way too fucking long but more on the points anon made under the cut:

re: eddie and chris. the show has never been big on telling every single thing. we only see big conversations some of the time, and fights are almost never solved by talking. and we did see eddie and chris make up on our screens! they were never going to talk about kim because she was no longer relevant (they let this thing go on for too long and probably the GA wouldnt even remember her if she was brought up again) and chris staying in texas had more to do with eddie's feelings of inadequacy as a father and his parents trying to keep him away than the original sin, so to speak. tbh, i'd expect an offhand mention of how "things are better now" next season and that's it. do you guys even remember how the show dealed with shannon's passing back then? i was never really expecting to have them SAY the words on screen. also, it's was implied that eddie would no longer ASK chris to live with him, instead he'd dad up and just tell him. so the way they ended that storyline checks out for me. was it entirely satisfiying? idk i'd have loved for chris to have more lines during those last few scenes, but that's mostly because i missed him.

the han's baby number one (aka jeeyun) was born under extreme circumstances. madney's entire plot that season was about the pregnacy, starting with being apart bc of the pandemic, and then the birth was built up for at least 2 episodes, then there was albert's accident during blindsided, etc. and even after, maddie's ppd plot spanned all of s5, and a bit of s6. they were never going to replicate something remotely close- tim did explicitly that that chapter is closed, any new babies were always gonna have a nice and safe birth experience (*side eyes the throat-slashing*), even when they did acknowledge the past struggles, we were reassured then that things are better and they were ready to move on from that. if anything i was confused about the timeline bc i felt like maddie was pregnant for like a year but also for only 2 months. anyway. another thing is that to me baby han number 2 was a plot device from the beggining, both for the surprise mid season finale baby announcement and now for the name reveal. mostly because of my first point i'm okay with the birth being off-screen.

honestly i couldn't care less about the athena-helps-deliver-baby theory bc it never made much sense to me? and after they set up the athena-chim debacle the previous episodes it was pretty much obvious that they were going to be trapped together so athena could face bobby's death and accept it. and again: they didn’t "spend all that time rescuing a rando"- this is the definition of the job, they're first responders above all, they ARE going to constantly be saving random people. and they're going to give them their all as if they were saving a loved one because that's the life they chose and they fucking love it. honestly, cart cop guy did get the treatment bobby should have gotten, yes, but the point of the show is that any and all of us has the right to be given that. no matter how much of an asshole they are, or if they're a fucking saint: everyone deserves to be saved. i missed bobby wildly and i feel it was fucking unfair to let him go like that during the contagion arc, as a character, but in universe? chim and athena would never not do what they did. and frankly i feel like they needed that connection, as i said chim being alive was forcing athena to confront bobby being dead, and she didn’t want to accept that, so she got angry at him instead. grief is fucking unfair like that. so once she reconnected with chim as a person, and with cart cop's sacrifice mirroring bobby's, she was able to see chim not giving up on him like he wouldn't have given up on bobby, just like bobby didn’t give up on chim. and so she could accept his sacrifice. so yeah, i'm happy with that.

btw i'm kinda neutral about the name- i loved that they chose robert, of course, but the nash part is just. weird ngl. but athena saying hi bobby as closing line? i thought it was sweet! a classic, if you will. lacks creativity, at worst.

i agree that the buddieravi rescue had low stakes, but that wasn't the point of the scene for me, since the high stakes rescue was athena-chim. remember in s2, when buddie were on the high-rise rescuing ali, and hen got trapped underground? guess who was never in actual danger? anyway, that one was more about establishing eddie's return as a necessity for eddie himself (not for us, since we obviously wanted him back), for him to realize he is an essential, indispensable part of the 118, bc if it wasn't for him coming to help buckravi wouldn't have been rescued on time, nobody would have thought of that stunt, etc. the point is that eddie's out-of-the-box quick thinking got them to safety on time, and no one else could have done that. nah, this was all you. oh and also the building collapsing just as buck crossed over was reminiscent of that moment in the earthquake arc with the elevator and buck dodging it. as you said, lower stakes, but helps solidify eddie's feelings and doubts about texas, and i felt that he was looking for last minute flights more on obligation than anything, because he wasn't 100% sure yet, he still has trouble choosing his joy, and buck's transfer request earlier on the episode and chim's speech at the end gave him that last little push he needed, because he got the reasurance that the 118 needed him.

the 118's work as a team had been fractured since bobby's death and cart-cop's rescue worked to show them realizing that they can do this without him. and none of us like to be reminded of this, but when people die, the world keeps spinning, and life goes on. it is healthy to move on, to find your footing after someone dies, and of course a high stress job like theirs forces them to come to terms with it faster because it's life or death, and they did so during the rescue. and their cohesion as a family was worked on through the job, because those two aspects of their dynamics are intertwined intrinsecaly and when they were able to work through their issues on the field, they were shown to return to that point where they can all be together to celebrate life and joy as a family- this time having all of them (minus chris! i missed him there terribly!) at the hospital meeting baby han.

regarding the buddie fight, we did get resolution, in the same freaking episode. i know people wanted eddie to explicitly say "i'm sorry" and felt like his apology was lackluster, but i personally felt like it was very in character. he's an actions-instead-of-words kind of guy, buck is the one who needs words. last time they fought, buck was arguably in the wrong so he needed to say his apology and hear that he was forgiven; this time, since eddie was (understandably) very much unfair and a dick to buck, it was his turn to apologize- but of course we wouldn't get to see a heartfelt conversation, because he's always shown buck his love through christopher (something i've talked about before), so acknowledging he was a dick + giving buck chris? i felt it was enough, was completely in character, and is also on theme with the show don't tell vibe they've been going with for a while.

on the tommy front, well, I haven't seen the contagion arc, only watched some scenes later, so i might be wrong, but to me it felt like having tommy help buck was more of an olive branch so they could move past the fight and let their relationship rest in peace. now we're in a place were, if necessary, they can bring tommy back at some point, but personally (and i got the sense the cast felt the same lmao) i don't think it will happen.

bestie i've been here for years. they spent the entire ryliver tour saying buddie wasn't happening this week and it didn't. it is kinda our fault for not believing them.

what do you mean chim's speech was empty? i think it's the total opposite! as i said the 118 was fractured since bobby's death, chimney above everyone has felt that, and we have repeatedly been shown and explicitly told that chimney is the heart of the 118. if anyone was going to say that, to make everyone stay were they are needed, to help everyone remember that the 118 isn't just a job but they're family- it would be chim, of course. and tbh i agree with every single word he said, idk, maybe yall's opinion is a bit clouded by other negative emotions, but the speech to me also served a main purpose of further solidifying chimney's place as the 118's new leader and possible captain- and that was built up with hen's hesitance and later decision to not accept the role, and with the cart-cop rescue where, when the team was together, he was the one to give orders and everyone followed, and they were able to do a succesfull rescue thanks to him. and also to remind us as the audience that bobby's legacy is the family built in that firehouse. that nothing will ever be the same because bobby is gone, but we need to embrace that and remember that the heart of the show isn't a single character, but the dynamics between all of them,

also i was kind of joking when i said bobby died so we could have ravi main for s9. of course it's not a fair exchange, but one i'll gladly accept IF it happens.

i hope you see my point of view and why i'm satisfied with the finale, though i don't expect you to agree with me, you said your piece and now i've said mine. i also should note that i didn't interact much with the fandom during 8b so my expectations were different. i also went through a big loss in my family during s8, so it gives me both emotional distance and the ability to connect with other aspects of the show during all this. 911 is my comfort show, and honestly the grief arc after bobby's death has felt real to me, has helped me accept some of the things that happened in my family after my abuela's death, and also work through my own grief. and i get that that's a unique experience, just as everyone's experience is, but it's really discouraging to see everyone just be negative and hateful all the time.

i get that theories and collective clowning are really fucking fun, but you should also be able to manage you expectations, be realistic and accept that not every fan theory will be true, and that the show will not always give the audience what they want (which is something tim and the cast has also repeatedly stated). and also: we're not in the writer's room, as much as we'd like to be and, i've been here long enough to trust the writers to be as true to the characters as possible, and to have learned that i need to watch the show for what it is and not what we make it to be in our collective hive mind.

lastly, please, and this goes for everyone, if the show no longer brings you joy- nobody's forcing you to watch. i get that we need a space to vent, but maybe- maybe flooding a space with negativity and then stewing in those emotions isn't as healthy as it seems! look for the brightside, be grateful that we have such a great cast and crew creating something for our enjoyment, that they give so much love to it. oh and also fuck tim minear :)

[hexhomos]

hey I’m here from ur Twitter, saw some of your posts about gale/astarion mystra stuff because I haven’t played the game yet and wanted to know about TWs/if it’s handled well/etc. I don’t really mind spoilers if they’re necessary! thank you

Id say as pretty traditional DnD adaptation game there is a lot of bloody battles and i guess... disturbing implications? when it comes to things such as kidnapping/murdering/cannibalizing people and general eldritch assassin blood cult stuff that has to do with the BG series.

If your particular concern are depictions of SA/CSA the game is written in such a way that they all took place quite some time in the past, and those discussions exist mostly in the realm offhand mentions or between-the-lines presence in the dialogues of companions -- as all of the core companions in this game are in some way abused and not quite cognizant of that abuse all of the time, and the player has the option to help them.

MILD EARLY SPOILERS FOR BG3 WARNING

Gale and Astarion are the only companions where that theme of abuse/agency crosses into sexual territory; Astarion explicitly speaks about being tortured in non-sexual ways as part of being a thrall/vamp spawn (basically an eternal servant for a Real Vampire) and his romance route includes multiple discussions of those things & the atrocities he's committed under that household. The game writers do not include sexual abuse in those infodumps- that i know of- but Astarion seduced people to their doom and has a weird relationship with sex as a result. Gale is not aware that he was being groomed at all and actually believes that he's the one who did badly towards his abuser, but the other companions Will question this interpretation of events and as the story goes on if you romance/befriend Gale he is able to look back on his situation and realize the 'love' he was used to was frankly sort of rotten in comparison. idk how deep it goes if you're doing friendship only but i can attest at least in romance mode that happens.

There are other situations in game (particularly at a brothel) where allusions to their abuse are made and they seem very uncomfortable being peer pressured or propositioned to. I think for a game of this size and mainstream appeal it's handled fairly well, mostly kept offscreen, and has thematic relevance to the story as a whole and the storylines of the other companions. Multiple parts of these storylines are also incredibly optional: you have to seek out these characters to learn more about them, and some of the more telling interactions aren't *given* to the player so much as found if you pay attention, if you get what I mean. I think BG3 as a whole is very entertaining and well written but you should go in knowing a measure of gritty dark themes are a central part of this setting, and while not all of it is perfect, it's one of the Best for its genre.

as a postscript: characters in this game can literally break up with you if you cross or don't care for their boundaries.

[the-owl-tree]

Opinion on Fernsong? Even if he wasn't related to Ivypool he's a waste of a mate and I don't understand the hype with how nothing he is imo.

i'm not the biggest ivy fan (as mentioned) but rip ivy fans they shoved her in a cishet relationship so fast with one offhand dialogue that fernsong didn't even bother to follow up on. i get the whole "he probably did it offscreen" logic but you've gotta understand how baffling it is for this misogynistic book series which places such deep emphasis on the role of the mother to make a big moment out of this and then....not show it or even have bristlefrost mention being primarily raised by fernsong in the nursery. so yeah no! i'm not willing to give this series a bone! it doesn't get to sing its own praises and then not actually commit to it!!

my feelings on him are nothing. he's a nothing character, he was there to be ivypool's rushed mate so she could pump out protag babies and make a big grand statement about helping and then not actually doing it. he's a complete nobody to her story, i don't find their chemistry or relationship appealing. he isn't someone she trained with, understands what happened with the dark forest, he's like....nothing! i don't care for him and i don't care for his relationship with ivypool...which is the only thing he has going for him lol

[sonicasura]

This was the second Transformers timeline—the one where they arrived early enough to save Cliffjumper, menaced Airachnid plus MECH, and helped repair Breakdown. Him, Knockout, and Starscream technically joining this version of the Inertia faction still blew their mind. All they said back before the Terrorcons hit was that the three should remove their Decepticon symbols so no one mistook them still.

Knockout and Breakdown “joined” a little after the Omnitrix User helped to restore Cybertron as a way to pay back a life debt. (Or spark debt apparently.) The seeker—self-imposed true leader of the Decepticons in every other timeline—had officially joined weeks after. As in, swore on ceremony and all. Dart barely had time to process that because it was during one of their shorter visits to check on the Vehicons.

He was the main one out of the three that they knew the least about when it came to simply interacting with him. Starscream was a scientist, so they had kinda dumped a few offhand projects on him to tinker with. How does Cyber Matter react when it’s made with non-Predacon DNA, very very brief tests into accessing the shadow dimension—

“No, Starscream. We do not use live test subjects. By the Omniverse, start with an unintelligent drone or something to make sure the access point’s stable.”

The Seeker was by far the more troublesome of the three former Decepticons yet never on purpose. Dart had to force themself to be very calm even when he flinched away after making a mistake many times in the beginning. Always, always inform him if they were going to be in their Predacon form. (Crest not being given the opportunity to exist in this timeline was a slight low blow. But, Shockwave was arrested so…)

Bygone’s mech mode reminded him too much of Megatron evidently—if the warlord hadn’t already deactivated… He would have been.

—————————

Verbal slip-ups were far more common.

Over four million years of existing and being partially robotically autonomous had a way of ingraining habits. Frankly, they were called and even thought of worse things to be addressed by than Starscream’s accidental slip-ups.

They were severely questioning what a pre and post Dark Energon infected Megatron was thinking as the Seeker started addressing him as “Master”. He seemed embarrassed every time he made that particular mistake toward Dart. Most of the time it was when something scared him, but the rarer slips were when he was working on something and said it without thinking of the present.

His wings drooped whenever he realized.

—————————

The Omnitrix user was under no illusions that Starscream or the other Decepticons were any shade of innocent. But, they were the type to give other beings a chance to atone for their past deeds. Rotting away in prison or being given the death penalty would insure no further harm was caused… Yet it also made sure no good could come from the offenders.

(Always find out what led them to this. Was it a mental health thing that never was given the care it deserved, did small things eventually snowball into escalation, were they hurt?

Always easier to solve others problems.)

.

.

.

Soundwave was not someone they thought they would extend that effort too.

—ROB’d Anon.

This is why Dart rarely mentions the second Transformers timeline. It was incredibly awkward in the beginning to get used to being around a former Decepticon Starscream. Again, the shapeshifter does visit “offscreen”.

Looks like we're back to the second timeline. Even though the Decepticons aren't wholly innocent, you couldn't help but feel bad for them as Megatron is not only an awful leader but an abusive liar too.

[geminicollisionworks]

After an offhand line in an old ask of yours, I (with my Althaar-grade understanding of human intimacy) have been trying to work out who in the main cast had the mentioned brief offscreen sexual relationship that will never be acknowledged in-show but regardless affects how these characters are written.

There are easy exclusions, of course, but still many candidates. My current top candidates are Chip and Torianna, because this is something they would, I think, both end up doing, immediately regretting, and mutually swearing never to speak of ever again (though I have to wonder if Fraall, who enjoys flotting with them both, would've mentioned it by now if they had).

Now, I am not asking for an answer (unless my assessment is correct), but how would you feel about humoring me with a clue, namely between which episodes this regrettable encounter has occured?

Hmmmnnn...

Berit & Ian put a few things in Life With Althaar here and there that are... not exactly just to amuse ourselves, but as we've said, as flavor. Though it is also to amuse ourselves. And we've often wondered if any of our listeners will "figure [this background running gag] out."

But we've never actually discussed how to respond if someone does figure out one of our silly things, or comes close enough to want or warrant hints.

Like... the one thing that a certain set of non-recurring characters have in common (which, if you noticed it, would allow you to predict certain things about events involving these characters immediately upon their being introduced).

Or... the [who/what] that is quoted in every episode of Season Three (granted, there are quotes galore in all episodes, we just decided after randomly quoting the same source in 3.01 and 3.02 that we'd keep it up for the season and see if anyone noticed).

But the past "secret" relationship is considerably less random, and while not originally conceived for the show, happened organically in the writing and acting and helped in creating a dynamic between the characters that just felt right.

It is not Chip and Torianna. Though your thoughts on the "why" for them make perfect sense, and it's absolutely in character for them to have had that happen as you laid out (both Chip and Torianna have somewhat long histories and numbers of past brief unsuccessful love affairs). Alt-Universe slash-fic writers, have at it if you like! But in canon Althaariverse, nope, didn't happen. It certainly would fit a number of classic sitcom tropes, but no.

As to Frall's take on it if it had happened, yeah, they might give both parties grief about it, but I like Berit's idea that Frall wouldn't explicitly hassle Chip about the relationship specifically, but if it had happened, that would be the reason behind Frall's constantly flotting with Chip (since Torianna is Frall's closest friend, insofar as an inexplicable, nigh-omnipotent energy being has friends). Frall's actual reasons for needling Chip are, of course, thoroughly Frall-ish and inscrutable.

As to hints to what we have layered in...

It didn't happen between episodes. It happened before the show begins. Years before, in fact.

It was not a one-night-stand, but actual open dating for a short time. It was not "regrettable," but rather nice and sweet, just, in the end, not really right for either in the longer term. It ended very amicably.

Frall, of course, knows, but would never mention it to either, let alone tease. But some others know too, and it has been whispered about, but it never comes up because it would just not be cool.

There are slight verbal felicities between them they don't allow from many others, if any at all, and both have occasionally mentioned personal idiosyncrasies of the other that a friend might know, but an ex would be more likely to.

And that's enough hints. Too many? Is it obvious now?

Personally, as one of us two creators has old flames, preceding our 23 years together, who we remain close to, with no weirdness or tensions, we thought it was a nice, real dynamic that actually happens in our world that isn't so often found in the sitcom form (pace Chloe and James in our beloved Don't Trust the B---- in Apt. 23), and wanted to explore it, quietly.

Thanks for asking!

[mysteryloversbookshelf]

“Happily Ever Aster”

What are some of your headcanons on how some of the characters lived happily ever after? We won’t know for sure until being mentioned offhand in future seasons but it’s still fun to come up with ideas. Here is how I vision some of their happy endings. I’m putting it behind the read more in case some people still haven’t seen the season finale yet

Grace and Hannah

It’ll be weird for a minute since Edgar is dead and as terrible as he was I’m sure they’ll still have to grieve him in some way. Once that passes I see them continuing to travel together and maybe Hannah working with Grace in her antique shop. Rather than another yurt, I could see them living in a cozy cottage surrounded by more psychotropic plants. Idk if they’ll marry, but I see them adopting a baby or maybe getting a sperm donor and their baby being weird af like a mini Wednesday Addams.

Feng and Vivian

After news of Edgar’s death breaks out and people check out Kyler’s videos from the weekend, I can see a lot of people flocking to try baobing for clout but falling in love with it. They’ll get a boost in sales and Feng will end up opening even more locations. Now that he has enough money to pay off debts and etc, I see him and Vivian traveling the world together and her teaching him how to live it up. He doesn’t have to play it safe anymore so I could see him and Vivian sending Grace and Zoë pics of them both skydiving and other thrill seeking tourist stuff. Maybe offscreen Aniq and Zoë asked Vivian to help choreograph the first dance at their wedding and it turned out amazing.

Travis

Since he became the house and beat Sebastian, he can afford to fly out and visit Weronika. Does anyone remember what he does for a living? I could see him feeling inspired at actually discovering the crypto scam and taking courses so he can be a legitimate detective. Maybe he will even create an agency to help other people that have been scammed out of their crypto.

Isabel

She may not have been able to hold Edgar accountable for drugging her but she’s at least finally free. Howie is a close friend but maybe they’ll become something more at some point. With her personality I don’t expect her and Hannah to ever have a perfect relationship, but after that moment they shared while telling the mind movie, maybe they can get to a decent place. Probably not though after how she treated Grace.

Sebastian

Yeah he lost a bunch of money and was fired by Isabel, but you can’t keep a scammer like him down. He’s either about to start running cons with his cousins again or he’s going to attach himself to a wealthy older lady like Isabel and live out the rest of her life in luxury before moving on to the next one.

Aniq and Zoë

When they go see Danner in the time jump, are the rings to show that they’ve already married or are they still engaged? Either way, I don’t care to see a wedding. We’ve already been there and done that with Grace even if it did end terribly. I’m fine with seeing hilarious wedding and honeymoon photos/videos and calling it a day. It’s too bad Yasper is in prison because he would have been a really fun best man. Imagine the wedding toast 😂

Danner

Assuming season three will be the afterparty for the premiere of her movie, I hope that the person killed isn’t Jaleel White. Danner has been through enough so that would suck to do that to her character when she finally found what she wants to do in life.

Ulysses

He obviously doesn’t deserve a happy ending after trying to kill Feng. It might be too much of fan service, but the idea of him being cellmates with Yasper and them both performing together for the other criminals is hilarious to me. Knowing him, he’d probably be using his knowledge from his travels to scam the other inmates into giving him money for food and etc.

What about you guys? It would be really cool to be able to compare these headcannons to what will actually be canon in the future seasons.

[grinchthem]

seriously though they did shirley bennet so dirty. her setup was actually so interesting? she was trying to make something of her like without her husband after being a stay at home mom. but then the show hardly ever had her date? she seriously dates like a small handful of unnamed guys over the course of the whole show when the other characters get whole arcs dedicated to their dating lives. i actually kind of like that they brought up the tension of her often feeling separate from the group because of her beliefs and being a parent, but it's just kind of mentioned as a throwaway every few seasons.

i also quite liked the andre plotline, i thought it was in character. but then they completely blew it up to create drama in season 5 where shirley just kind of mentions offhand that she and andre separated again and "he took the kids," which is then NEVER MENTIONED AGAIN? you would think that this would actually be a huge deal for shirley, since her family and her kids are so important to her, but no, it's simply not mentioned.

obviously them quietly writing her off the show for some bullshit reason was disappointing, but even then like. did she take her kids with her when she moved?? did she and andre get back together offscreen (??) or did she just, like, abandon her life? (very ooc)

i feel like the writers literally forgot that she existed for long periods of time and would completely drop plotlines that they introduced for her. also she has some of the fewest lines of any of the characters per season. so disappointing

[quixoticrobotic]

who's a pair of atop the fourth wall characters you'd like to see get more screentime together?

literally all of them??????? which like i understand why we dont get that, obviously, thats a ridiculous demand. like logistically its not very doable i know this. i basically play with all the characters like dolls in my head i dont expect a ton casual slice of life character driven stuff from this show

but that being said...

off the top of my head

Mark and Linkara but like with them acting like friends and goofing around and mark actually getting to act like a teenager whos found family is a bunch of goofballs, rather than that weird dynamic where mark is just like the embodiment of patience and kindness and wisdom despite being a teenager talking to like, the first adult he ever felt safe around. like i wish the partnerfriends dynamic was a little more balanced??? like mark still has to have like thoughts and feelings and problems??? his best friend is right there!!!

Jaeris and LITERALLY EVERY REMEMBER OF THE COMICREW. like i guess its implied off-screen but like it really feels like they forgot the "to" in "enemies to mutual respect to friends" like. theres so much potential like i cant even type it all up but like.

ok so jaeris is bitter and cynical and frankly jealous that this comic book geek has ALL HIS LIL FRIENDS and ooooh cool wow thats so great you know what the power of friendship and kindness has done for jaeris? FUCKING NOTHING! and like Jaeris going from being like kinda disgusted by this group he kinda sees as like saccharine to the point of cringe like "goody two shoes and his bands of weird losers who like him" to having this big support system other other humans who he feels safe around LIKE PLEASE

nimue and eliza. like!!!! its canon nimue was the first member of the comicrew eliza really trusted that is canon! also like I know nimue just isn't very outwardly emotional and i love that for her! i think her characterization is really great! but like i'd like to see her when she's like. actually just kinda chillin, by nimue standards. and eliza is just always a really compelling and very funny character and just. i want them to hang out. also femslash

Mark and 90s Dude! smells like teen spirit and a literal teen spirit! they both have transmasc swag and i want them to goof off and be pals!

Joanna. just. any mention of joanna she has not been mentioned ONCE since her last appearance EVEN THOUGH YOU'D THINK JAERIS WOULD MENTION HIS WIFE, HIS WIFE WHO HE LOVES SO MUCH THATS WHAT POWERS HIS MAGIC GUN. HIS WIFE WHO HES MARRIED TO WHO IS PRESUMABLY WAITING FOR HIM BACK HOME WHENEVER HE SHOWS UP. IS SHE OK? IM STARTING TO WORRIED SHE'S LIKE DEAD, OR THEY GOT DIVORCED OFFSCREEN OR SHE JUST GOT RETCONNED OUT OF EXISTENCE OR SOME SHIT

tbh i wish the characters just mentioned each other more? it would help a to to make these characters feel like friends and allies who actually like each other. also it'd make it feel like the characters all have lives. like have linksano mention the romantic partners he canonically has like have him mention the fact that he went on a date, have linkara casually ask nimue if erin can still make it to bad movie night or if shes busy, have characters ask linkara how mark is doing since THE WHOLE COMICREW KNOWS MARK EXISTS, have harvey mention playing pokemon cards with linksano, LET JAERIS TALK ABOUT HIS WIFE, just like little offhanded comments that make it feel like they interact with each other

[aviculor]

Plot spoilers for the Teal Mask

I'm not surprised they were doing the "history was wrong" plot twist. In fact, it was obvious. However, it's just so hard to take the original story seriously when Ogerpon looks like that. What scary ogre? You mean this little leaf child?

I'm getting some mixed messages about the Loyal Three. So they were a trio of thieves who stole Ogerpon's masks and were killed by Ogerpon in front of the villagers who interpreted what they saw as a trio of heroes fending off an evil oni at the cost of their lives. That much I get. But why does the quest info talk about the three being worshiped by name for individual reasons, and about them becoming smart/strong/beautiful by wishing for it? Was this before or after they literally died? Someone mentioned offhand that Okidogi's mask is greener than its actual self, is that supposed to imply that the three were completely different in their original lives and what popped out of the burial site are like...deified versions, based on the people of Kitakami's conceptions of them? Maybe Kieran wished really hard that they would come back so the villagers would see them for who they really are, and the weird stories that cropped up in the centuries gone by intermingled with what he knew to be the truth? Briar did say that Kitakami flows with a similar energy as the terrastal phenomena, and it would connect to the prevailing theory that paradox pokemon are Sada/Turo's wishes given life. I suppose the real question is where did the toxic chains on them come from?

The order things played out in is a little strange. Like, we learned the truth about the loyal three before they even showed up. And with Kieran playing devil's advocate from the get-go, the pre-release information was the only time we were ever expected to buy the legend of the Loyal Three. As soon as the Festival of Masks happens, Kieran and Carmine's grandpa tells you what really happened and there's no more mystery to solve, you're just hunting down and beating up some shitheel zombies to collect Ogerpon's masks again. Kieran also managed to change the village's opinions offscreen so there was no drama to deal with there.

[holmoris]

The mario rpg staff got interviewed for the remake and mentioned offhand that the mystery egg was originally supposed to be a casino prize because the casino's entire deal was being as time consuming and boring as possible, solely because they thought it'd be funny and the evilest thing ever, and I agree. If they'd actually put the mystery egg there, the process for getting the game's rarest item, Sheep Attack, would be: (smrpg spoilers, obviously) 1. Reentering booster tower and climbing halfway up to find the ball-juggle game, which appears there lategame without prompting.

2. Winning the ball-juggle game 20? times to get the casino entry card. 3. Actually finding the casino itself. Two npcs in the entire game give one-line hints to where it is and getting the actual door to appear requires an interaction that's used nowhere else in the game, in an otherwise empty room, in an area with 6 of those rooms. 4. Winning a casino game called 'look away' which is basically a coin flip 100 times. Each run is multiple dialog boxes and just smashing A+Left requires about 25 minutes of inputs to get the wins you need. Win 100 would give you the mystery egg. 5. Equipping a specific, special, expensive worthless item available in Marrymore only (the B'tub ring) on Peach and having her use the egg in fights 10 times, forfeiting her turn each time. This turns the egg into Lamb's Lure. 5. Using Lamb's Lure 10 times in fights for a 25% chance of turning an enemy into a sheep and making it float offscreen. You need to hit with it 10 times to get the 'The flock is full!' message and turn Lamb's Lure into Sheep Attack. Your reward for all this? A reusable item that causes the game to lag horribly, removes enemies from fights at random and is notorious for causing softlocks. Whee!

evil game design must never be done for money reasons. evil game design must be done for the love of evil itself

[beatricebidelaire]

actually something i’m constantly wondering about is, all the little details in canon about beatrice and olaf, the things mentioned in the books, were they …. intentional. well, maybe intentional is not the right word, it’s more like, did he put those in with the intention of hinting a history of friendship between them behind the scenes, if that makes sense. like, a lot of olaf and beatrice dynamics are our own interpretations and guesses since we don’t see them together in the same scene in the books (by same scene i mean it more in a “on screen” way like the way two characters are in a scene at the same time, instead of offhandedly mentioned that they are offscreen doing something together)

(netflix does have them on screen together, for example the opera night, but that scene is actually not as compelling b&o friendship hint/evidence compared to other scenes where they don’t actually show up together. olaf’s “remarkable woman. flammable.” is iconic. klaus’s line “mother said actors will eat anything” is interesting not just because beatrice obviously knows olaf who is an actor, but she also is one herself.)

the thing is that as much as the interpretations of their dynamic is guesswork, it’s guesswork based on canon lines. olaf’s “your mother told me the same thing ha but one day when i was 7 year old”. or when he says sunny’s beans is “worse than that salad your parents used to make”. or how ghede in ?4 told lemony that beatrice is accompanying olaf to the edge of the forest, hinting the two probably did their apprenticeship together. like when i read ?4 it made me wonder did handler put that line there wanting to hint at a deeper backstory of friendship between the two of them, considering how they were already confirmed to have known each other before the age of 7. it’s unclear if at that time they’re part of vfd or not. but it’s a possibility that they know each other before vfd. they did their apprenticeship together in their teens. she was part of the opera plot, part of the operation who murdered his parents. he hunts down after her children as revenge, more than a decade later. their lives were so revolved around each other in some way. she is his motive for revenge the revenge that drove the plot of asoue forward. they were basically childhood friends who’ve known each other forever turned enemies. was DH thinking of this when he puts the lines in. because even disregarding my personal interpretations and guesswork there’s no denying that they did at least know each other at 7, possibly earlier. did their apprenticeship together. became enemies at some point. mr handler do you know. one one hand i think there’s no way he doesn’t when i type these all out on the other hand some of the details are such trivial offhanded mentions in canon that it’s possible it’s just an afterthought and not something intentional …… or is it. mr handler pls.

[expelliarmus-percabeth]

nhie season 3 thoughts

aneesa has screamed bi vibes since her appearance but im so glad they actually made it canon! I wasn't expecting that. I'm glad they decided to scrap her and fabiola though, it was turning out to be kind of a meh ship and it felt like anessa just latched onto the nearest person for emotional support after her terrible rs with ben. also fab didn't seem to be into anessa as much as she was into her :( PLEASE GIVE ANESSA A LOVING GF IN SEASON 4!!!! my girl deserves sm better :( though i will say that it's kind of annoying they had all that "omg who's going to make the first move" tension that eventually led to nothing... it felt so half-hearted

eleanor and trent actually work together stupidly well. I love them your honour <333

fabiola's romantic storyline with eve has never interested me much i felt like it was the blandest thing i have ever watched.... glad they broke up and never mentioned eve again 💀💀💀 i really hope they don't redo that whole storyline with addison i think fab deserves more layers and nuance to her romantic relationships. also the fact that we got to see devi and eleanor lose their virginity on screen (at least the start of the scene) but fab's was just an offhand remark like "oh yeah we just did it offscreen"??? cmon.

rhyah is a terrible but unfortunately realistic character. perfect representation of people who will smile to your face and secretly thank god that they're not suffering your misfortunes. shoutout to the actress for doing such a great job I actually wanted to punch her in the face

paxton continues to steal my heart. I just wish they gave him a more concrete goal or desire other than him being a "kind and nice" person. (and tbh based on all the ghosting of the girls he had sex with wasn't even like. an EXCEPTIONALLY nice and kind person. so.)

I think the daxton breakup was handled the way it should be - the problem with the relationship was there from the start, it's that devi only sees paxton as this unattainable dream that signifies her ascending into popularity or whatever and doesn't like him as an actual person other than for his looks.

also i think it's hilarious how haley appears for like one episode to become best friends with paxton again to make devi jealous then completely disappears for the rest of the show

I don't understand why rhyah introduced des as someone who was bullied a lot and sad and lonely when it's clearly established later on that he's in the popular clique and does have friends??? There doesn't seem to be any logical reason other than for the writers to pull that "he's actually hot" twist on us... and man did not mention sea slugs ONCE

i seriously love nalini so so much.... I have a special spot in my heart for characters who act all tough but are actually soft inside. The scene where devi tells her shes not ready to leave her mom yet she just wants one more year and you know her mom was thinking the exact same thing about her daughter.... i started tearing up fr

every line out of nirmala's mouth is iconic and comedy gold. "I'm a regina" so true bestie

I really hope we get to see more of ben having more male friends in the next season bc the paxton and ben scenes were genuinely sweet. stop fighting over devi!!! just be bros

speaking of ben i go back and forth on him a lot because he's honestly really douchey at times and the way he treated anessa while they were together was just.... not it. but honestly the last scene where devi gave ben the one free boink card is going to live in my head forever. the way they didn't need to say a single word??? the way it should have been cringe but wasn't??? the way they smile at each other and slipped in???? WOW.

also the irony/character development of ben calling devi an "unfuckable nerd" in s1 to him quite possibly being her first in s3 is not lost on me

[tcba]

Wait, is the sex thing actually gonna happen?/gen

Offscreen, I should make it VERY clear its ALL offscreen. it's only like. offhand mentioned. But yes there is freaky mentally ill trans sex