#obviously like.... spoilers and stuff

[peofun1]

Compiling Metaphor Refantazio humans and their Hieronymus Bosch inspirations

Enemy spoilers up through 7/17 on the in-game calendar

far from complete, since I'm nowhere near done with the game yet, but these are all the funny little guys I've managed to find the inspirations for! I've put the enemy's names and the names of the Bosch paintings in the alt text for each image.

I highly recommend checking out Bosch's paintings, for these guys and the many other fantastical and macabre creatures in his works. it's kind of like a game of I-spy, lol

enemies I was NOT able to find a 1-to-1 inspiration for under the cut. if anyone out there HAS spotted a better match for these ones, feel free to add on!

so I couldn't find a good match for the big terrible baby, unfortunately. best I can say is that Bosch tends to paint a lot of creatures that are just a human head on legs.

same goes for the giant sandworm; I couldn't find anything even remotely similar even after scouring through every Bosch painting (and some sketches!) I could find. it feels inspired by The Garden of Earthly Delights, but I didn't see anything that really resembled this thing.

but again, if anyone knows of a better match for either of these, I'd love to see it!

[thecindercrow]

Nimona (2023) dir. Nick Bruno and Troy Quane, and based on the graphic novel by ND Stevenson

[wuntrum]

i was like woah thats kind of crazy that the church would be down for severance and view their innies as people with distinct souls and then i was like ohhhh right they also probably like it because of the control exerted over this new life that the outie has created

[rbtlvr]

chat i think i might be cooking with this (hugemassive spoilers for both games :thumbsup:)

[youruinedmylifebynotbeingreal]

Sorvus may not be canon but you know what IS canon.

Them being there for each other. Them having inside jokes. Them telling each other things nobody else knows.

[the-mang0tree]

unfortunately s3 left me with a brainrot the size of megop + prowl

[ruporas]

post-trimax vash meets stampede wolfwood

[ID: Black and white comic of Vash and Wolfwood of their Stampede versions. The comic starts with Wolfwood continuing off a conversation, saying “I didn’t mean t’say anythin’ bad to her. She just took it the wrong way. But anyway...” Wolfwood speaks with a hand gestured flippantly while Vash, who’s seated next to him, just listens. Vash thinks to himself, “Talks more about himself... Honest expressions... Immature, though he was pretty immature too.” He smiles and continues to think, “And yet...”

A panel of Vash’s eye directed now to the sky. He thinks, “Some things are bound to be the same with us...” He thinks of a memory, the version from Maximum of him and Wolfwood, back shown as they chatted underneath two moons, one moon with a hole through it. Vash continues, “Isn’t that right, W-“ His thoughts are interrupted by Wolfwood coming into a view, a close up his deadpan expression. Vash utters out “-olfwood..?” with a nervous expression. He starts to explain, “Um. Sorry if it seemed like I wasn’t listening, I was! So, let’s keep talking?”

Vash smiles and puts his hands together as he says, “okay?” Wolfwood glares at him with gritted teeth and Vash immediately remembers, “Right, he’s more short-tempered...” He continues to think, “Maybe Plan B works with him—“ before he’s grabbed by his coat collar aggressively and changes thoughts, “OK, never mind, brace for impact..!” But he’s surprised when he’s tugged instead, him and Wolfwood flops against the ground. Wolfwood puts an arm over Vash and says, “I don’t need to be entertained, blondie. If yer tired, we can go to sleep.”

Two close up panels of Wolfwood and Vash’s eyes looking at each other, Wolfwood taking off Vash’s glasses as he says, “Am I wrong?” Vash thinks to himself, “Actually... I was being genuine when I said I wanted to keep talking. I don’t feel tired at all. But, I think you know this body more than I do.”

Vash’s thoughts continue, “I can’t deny the me you’re fond of from being taken care of. And I could never deny your kindness. Even though...” Vash finally smiles and says, “You’re not wrong...” Wolfwood smiles back before tugging Vash closer and says, “Then, let’s sleep.” Vash asks, “Should we get a blanket?” Wolfwood asks, “Why?” before kissing Vash on the cheek, “I’ll keep you warm.” Vash puts his face into both his hands and flushes. Wolfwood smiles cheekily and asks, “What?” Vash responds, “I was caught off guard..” Wolfwood says, “You’ve said worse though.” Vash responds, “Did I...” The panel phases out and the dialogue returns to Vash’s thoughts. He thinks, “I want to stay a bit longer. Talk a bit longer.

You’re tired here too. The future is always going to be unfair to you. I want to protect you from it. I want to hold you close so you won’t go far.” The thoughts overlap the scene of Wolfwood now sleeping peacefully against Vash with an arm over him, Vash’s jacket draped against him as a blanket. Vash looks at him and a small thought bubble thinks, “He can fall asleep first...” His previous thoughts continue, “I know I can’t. I already had that chance.” A close up of Vash putting his hand over Wolfwood’s. He continues, “I wasn’t capable once, I can’t be sure I’d be capable a second time. And in a way...”

Vash’s thoughts continue with the back drop of the sky, Stampede’s sky of two moons without holes, “Some things are bound to be the same. But I know you’ll be loved again and again in a way I’d never know.” A split panel, one half contains the sleeping face of Wolfwood from Stampede, the other of Wolfwood from Trimax. In turn, the Vash lying down looking fondly at Wolfwood shifts to the post Trimax Vash while the other versions, Stampede and earlier Trimax, are faintly drawn next to him doing the same. Vash closes his eyes and finally drifts to sleep as the final text reads, “Goodnight, Wolfwood.”

[accirax]

Danganronpa: Despair Time Chapter 2 Episode 12 Dissection

DANGANRONPA DESPAIR TIME IS BACK, BABY!!!

And in the vein of what many others have being doing since the episode came out, I will here be posting my thoughts on what this latest episode has brought to the table. This post will be a mixture of pointing out things I found fun/interesting and more serious theorizing about the murder and the events of the surrounding chapter. I also tried not to read too many other people's opinions or theories before writing my own post so that I hopefully wouldn't have my immediate opinions swayed, so I apologize if I've missed any critical easter eggs that others have pointed out or if I'm just beating a dead horse.

Let the episode commence!

SPOILERS for Danganronpa: Despair Time through Chapter 2, Episode 12!

Really important/long stuff will probably have a header-y title under it as well. I also might skip around in time a bit to put relevant pieces of evidence together? IDK, I'm kinda winging this for this first episode.

The Whole AM/PM Thing

Charles: The evidence against David-- in fact, our entire line of reasoning hinges on the fact that Arei must have been killed at around 7:30 PM last night. But the primary reason we believe the murder occurred at that time is because of the fish found at the crime scene. From that, Teruko concluded that since the killer accessed the relaxation room for water, the murder couldn't have occurred during night time. So, unless I'm missing some other piece of evidence that could explain it... Why couldn't the killer simply have taken the water during daytime and stored it for later use?

Well, by this point I think that pretty much everyone (on Tumblr, at least) was in agreement that Arei was killed in the morning rather than the evening, no matter who their personal choice of killer was. So, the murder happening in the morning isn't much of a surprise.

For all my talk of trying not to look at others' theories, I did talk with my sister @venus-is-thinking in person after we watched the episode, and she brought up a really good point that I'd like to reiterate here. Sorry for stealing something that you'll certainly bring up in your post as well! I just want as many people to be aware of it as possible.

During the investigation, Nico says that they fed the fish last night after they ate dinner, and didn't notice any fish missing at that time. To be fair, Teruko tries to press them for a specific time, and Nico responds that they don't remember at what hour exactly they fed the fish or ate dinner.

However (likely relevantly to the murder) we do have specific intel about last night's dinner to get a better sense of some timing. When Teruko is talking to Charles and Whit in the Computer Room, Whit remarks that it's "past dinner time," and Teruko's stomach growls. This is likely using Whit's internal clock and sense of when dinner time is as opposed to a MonoTV-mandated meal time, but given that no one else is in the Kitchen besides Teruko, Charles, Whit, and David when the former three enter, and we know that Nico must have had dinner before the Relaxation Room closed at 10 PM, we can probably assume that Nico also ate dinner around a regular "dinner time."

However x2, we also know that, after Teruko, Charles, and Whit go to the Kitchen, Whit sends David to the Relaxation Room, and Teruko mentions that she was planning to eat there as well. That means that we have three accounts of students believing that the Relaxation Room was open at that time, so we can assert that the terucharwhit dinner scene occurs before 10 PM.

So, what does this mean? Well, we'll start by assuming that Nico ate dinner at, like... 6:30? Hu says that she and Eden have a tradition of cleaning up after dinner together, starting at 7 PM. I'm ballparking that eating a meal might take about 30 minutes, so that would mean everyone is done at 7:00. Therefore, Nico probably fed the fish at around 7:00 as well.

We'll also set egg dinner (that's what I'm calling terucharwhit + David dinner now) at, like 9:30. Once again assuming that someone could eat dinner in about 30 minutes, that means either David or Teruko could comfortably eat their dinner before the Relaxation Room closed. It also gives the culprit basically the widest possible amount of time to steal the fish, and I like to be as all-inclusive as possible.

To return to the main point for a moment, Venus' argument was that, because Nico interacted with the fish at night and didn't notice any of them missing, the culprit still must have taken the fish at night (but before 10 PM), not just at any point of the day. Based on my time frame, that means that whoever killed Arei (or someone working with them) must have gotten the fish at some time between 7:00 and 9:30. Let's run through who that could possibly be:

Teruko: There's a small window of opportunity for her to have done it before meeting with Charles and Whit in the Computer Lab, but we didn't see her do that, so I'm gonna say no.

Xander: He was dead.

Charles: I'm pretty sure Charles and Whit have claimed to be together all day, and they were at least already together in the Computer Lab working together on something before Teruko entered. Assuming they weren't in on this together, I'm going to give him a tentative no.

Ace: So, assuming that Ace was telling the truth about overhearing David and Arei on the night of Day 7, he would have been in the Gym at ~9:30 on the night the fish were taken. That is to say, if he had just taken the fish (and potentially even hid them in the Gym fridge), he absolutely could have gone to the Gym afterwards. I don't remember him having any sort of alibi otherwise. Easy yes.

Arei: Given that, other than Ace (and David) claiming to have seen her at 9:30, no one is admitting to have seen Arei since lunchtime, Arei did have a window of opportunity to take the fish. Obviously, why she would (inadvertently or not) help her killer to kill her is still a huge question mark, but we're talking possibility, so it's a yes.

Rose: Rose has no alibi ever because she's asleep. Yes.

Hu: Hu and Eden claim to have a continuous alibi together between 7 and 10 PM. Again, unless they're in on it together, tentative no.

Eden: Same as Hu. Tentative no.

Levi: Levi was "doing his laundry," which even he admits is shaky at best. He's a yes.

Arturo: J says that Arturo was by her side from the entire time between 7:30 and 10 PM. Third time's the charm-- unless Arturo and J were in on it together, Arturo is a tentative no.

Min: She was dead.

David: David entered the Kitchen for egg dinner at ~9:30, but we don't know where he was before that. Similarly, we don't know what happened at the end of Ace's story, which leaves David a window of opportunity to have taken the fish just before the Relaxation Room closed. Either way, definite yes.

Veronika: Veronika was with Teruko at the end of the night, but we don't know where she was before that. She had an opportunity; yes.

J: Arturo's alibi goes both ways. Tentative no.

Whit: Same as Charles. Tentative no.

Nico: Nico both had ample opportunity to have taken the fish before 9:30, and could have been lying about the timing of the fish despite that. Another easy yes.

So, what does that tell us? Well, it likely means that either the killer has to be Ace, Arei, Rose, Levi, David, Veronika, Nico, or someone who has one of those seven as an accomplice, or I/the students have something wrong about the timing. Venus' other point was that it's weird that that hasn't come up at this point in the Trial, so don't be surprised if we come back to it later. Or we're wrong.

And those were my notes on... the first two minutes of the Trial! That whole ramble that probably could have been a whole theory post by itself! God, I need to pick up the pace...

Dang, what a cool detail that literally none of us picked up on (as far as I remember). Seriously, how did nobody even throw that out as an off-the-wall possibility? Anyways, if the body was still swinging, that means the murder-- or at least the hanging-- was recent recent. Sadly, given that no detail is given as to who arrives in the Motive Screening Room when, I don't think we have any further evidence to pin down who this might have been at the moment. Keep it in mind, though.

Okay, so I believe that J is right about "answering her own question" here, but that does therefore lead us to the conclusion that the body probably was drenched in water at some point. I do not know why. It'd be interesting if it was to clean blood off of Arei's body, although Artruro-not-being-the-killer pending there weren't any cuts or scrapes on her body. It could have also been a mistake, it's just weirder to have a mistake that covers the entire body in water. Or, it could be a failure in Arturo's alibi, which is obviously a major point of the episode.

I literally said exactly this while Ace was talking. Thank you Charles <3

First point that I feel people have commented on already: we now know that the DRDT cast believes that they are about 18! This makes sense, given that they believed that they were about to enter their first year of college, which, in the United States, happens at about 18.

Secondly...

Arturo: I started studying medicine when I was twelve. Twelve! All that amounts to is six years of medical training!

Arturo: I was only able to get this far in such a short amount of time because I specialized in plastic surgery, and nothing else. I neglected everything that wasn't immediately relevant to my goals.

Felicity is 3-4 years younger than Arturo. Therefore, she was 8-9 when Arturo started studying medicine. I don't think we have enough info at the moment to speculate as to when Arturo might have left home to pursue being a doctor, other than that 14 is generally the minimum possible age of employment in the US, while the legal age to live alone is 18. I'd love to dive into this more, but I don't think we've been given enough to complete a full timeline. Still, important to keep in mind.

A certified W for verturo shippers. "Adorable" is such a word choice.

Oh, so that's where that came from. Convenient that it doesn't seem to be relevant to this murder, because I have no explanation for it. I wonder if it'll be relevant in the future, though, or if it was just a funny gag that DRDTdev wanted to include.

As much as I've tried to refute Whit mastermind theory in the past, I have to admit that this moment was pretty suspicious for Whit. "Because it was funny" could easily be a coverup for "that's an executable offense but I'm programmed to not want to kill my mastermind so I let it go." It's still not concrete proof by any means, but I can tell that I'll be seeing this screenshot more in the future if I try to argue against Whit being the mastermind again.

Mechanisms, you say? 👀

I have been thinking so much about what the fuck this line means ever since Whit said it. Did they actually spend the night together, and Whit is just framing it in a subversively funny way? Is he saying that he's so sure that Charles doesn't have any friends other than him that there's no possibility that Charles could have been with anyone else other than him? Is he secretly the mastermind, and knows that Charles was alone through watching a security camera? Was he just saying that to be random and banking on being correct? Sir, I do not understand you. You're the best <3

Are J, David, and Veronika Telling the Truth?

Given how popular of an option J being the killer is (and to a lesser extent, David as well), I'm sure there are plenty of people out there right now wondering if this alibi, which seemingly clears J, David, and Veronika of being the blackened, could possibly be untrue. That's what we're going to attempt to examine right now.

For starters, I'm going to eliminate the possibility that all three of them are co-conspirators in Arei's death. Like, yeah, it's possible-- I guess-- but I don't understand what any of their motivations would be, or even if they did all have corresponding motivations, why any of them would have shared them with each other prior to the Trial. It also seems like a mess narratively, with three largely unconnected characters coming together to pull off an unsupported major stunt. So, I don't think this was a planned lie to conceal their teamwork.

All of them do also have plausible enough reasons for being out early in the morning. J shared hers with the Class-- she was hoping to have an Arturo-free breakfast. David makes lots of sense, as he was probably looking around hoping that there would be a body so that the secrets wouldn't be revealed. Veronika might have been awake for the same reasons; looking around for a body in hopes of having another exciting Class Trial. Or, maybe she was just so excited about seeing all the motives that she couldn't sleep. Either way, it doesn't seem too unbelievable to think that any of them would be awake in the morning, so I'm not inclined to believe it's a lie.

The only way I think you could get out of this disqualifying these three is if you say that all three of them, but especially J, are exceptionally quick on their feet.

For this to work, J has to realize ahead of time that David was trying to draw votes to himself in order to purposefully fail the Trial, bank on the fact that this is true, and throw this fake alibi out to him, hoping that he'll accept. If J could win the Class Trial as a blackened, this would also end the killing game early, which is David's stated goal. Veronika is an easier get, given that she might agree to a chaotic lie if she found it interesting enough, but it's still a gamble.

However, this situation is incredibly niche, and still really only works if J specifically is the killer. I think we can pretty officially take David and Veronika out of the running with this. Personally, trying to see things from DRDTdev's point of view, I think he just wanted a clean sweep to remove David from killer contention, and added J and Veronika as collateral as two people who aren't the killer.

I would personally take this alibi as concrete proof that J isn't the killer, but I understand if anyone still thinks there are enough holes in its suddenness to keep J in contention. My deepest condolences to J!culprit truthers-- I'm sure that alibi must've stung. (/gen)

"Harm yourself for fun" secret go brrrrrrr.

I'm making this my new tumblr header.

Yeah, seems in accordance with his actions to me.

Oh my god another "good person" name drop AAAAAAAAAA--

Being good corresponding to sacrificing something is super interesting. Whether he's a culprit or an accomplice or what, I can't help but feel like this theme might apply to Levi in the near future.

But also, David is saying that the sacrifice is being seen as a good person, not that you have to sacrifice being seen as a good person to do good things. That part seems like it relates to David's career. He doesn't seem to like being around people very much, but he's seen as a paragon of motivational speaking because he thinks that those speeches, will, overall, do some good. David would rather be a nobody, but he'll sacrifice himself to do some good for others. Or, at least, that's the charitable reading.

And, the other "good person" jumpscare. This brings our "good people" counter up to 6, including Teruko, Eden, Arei, David, Levi, and Xander.

What the Fuck is David Talking About?

David: After all, it's still unbelievable to me... That I'm the only person here who remembered him. Even if you all lost a year of memories for this killing game, there's no reason you shouldn't have recognized who he was.

Alright. So! This was one of the biggest reveals of the episode. Probably unrelated to the Trial at hand, but very intriguing for the story overall.

I went back to rewatch some of the most prominent David/Xander scenes. From David's introduction, here's everything he says before Xander runs off to grab the pen and paper for the autograph. All of these are said directly to Xander.

David: Woah! (chime sound) Sir, is everything alright? You gave me quite the scare.

David: Yes, that's me, although I don't believe we've met before.

David: Ahaha, you flatter me. But yes, it is my goal to inspire others. I wish to make everyone realize that their aspirations are within grasp; all they have to do is find the motivation within their hearts to inspire them.

David: O-oh, wow. I'm incredibly honored, I suppose? Sorry, I don't really know how to respond.

Interestingly, there isn't actually anything to directly contradict the idea that David remembered Xander at this point, if you get a bit creative with it. Just because David "doesn't think they've met before" doesn't mean that he doesn't know who Xander is, and being "genuinely honored" could have been more genuine than most people interpreted.

There are only two points of contention, the first of which being that David calls Xander "sir." That does read more as David not knowing who he is-- he doesn't call Xander "Xander" even though Teruko already said Xander's name. However, depending on how highly David thought of Xander in the past-- because he certainly seems to think highly of Xander in the present-- David might have wanted to call him "sir" at first as a sign of formality and respect, before getting Xander's permission to be on a first name basis. Even if Xander still calls him Mr. David.

(Goddamn I typed Xander so many times in that paragraph)

The other weird point is when David says "anything for a fan" in response to Xander asking for an autograph, but that's far more excusable. Like, Xander is a massive fan of his, so calling Xander a fan is reasonable. David might have been happy that such a cool guy as Xander was a fan of his, and was stressing that fact out of delight. Or, this is after Teruko caught him slipping, so he could have also reverted into default customer service mode and said that in a more scripted mindset.

Meanwhile, in the scene where David approaches Teruko and Xander after Nico flees the lunch table...

... I CAN'T BELIEVE WE FUCKING MISSED THIS.

Do you see that? Do you see where David says "in person"? That strongly implies that David knew Xander not in person prior to the killing game. Good god, it's been there all along.

Other than that, the scene is full of David being embarrassed at Xander speaking highly of him, David speaking highly of Xander, and, of course, the mutual "you're my idol" moment. Dude, I thought that David was just gaslight gatekeep girlbossing here. You're telling me that everything he was saying about thinking that Xander was the coolest guy on earth was legit? Unreal.

Anyways, I don't have the time to rewatch, like, the entire first Trial to check up on every little comment David makes, but I find that comment about knowing Xander in person definite enough to conclude that David knew who Xander was since the very start of the killing game, not that he remembered something about Xander along the way.

How exactly David knew about Xander is still up in the air. I know that Microphony has a theory that David remembered Xander from their time together at Hope's Peak, and while it's a great theory and I don't doubt that the two did go to Hope's Peak together, I have a bit of a hard time believing that. My only holdup is that I feel like letting David remember Hope's Peak would be too powerful, and having him remember being with Xander at Hope's Peak while remembering nothing else about his time there is too... like, specific? Nit-picky? I don't have the word, but I hope you understand what I mean.

Instead, I think that David might remember what Xander did in response to the North C and Chariton incident that presumably earned him the title of Ultimate Rebel. That makes more sense to me as something that would make David idolize Xander in the same way that Xander idolized him-- if David just remembers their time at school, he would probably remember Xander on more friendly terms. It would also be super convenient to have David still be alive with memories of, say, Richard Spurling, to share with the class in future chapters, now that Xander is too dead to say anything more on the subject.

Sadly, I don't remember if there's any information in Literature Girl Insane to point theories in either direction. I'm gonna have to rewatch FF's video again sometime fr.

Is David Telling the Truth?

David: We're... in a television show, after all. That's... what MonoTV said, right? "Entertainment" is an ongoing show. If Min successfully got away with the very first murder and escaped while we all died, then isn't that way less interesting for a TV show? What's the point of roping 14 other people into one murder, only to kill them all off immediately? The killer is supposed to fail and be executed. We're all supposed to catch the killer, again and again, and participate in trial after trial. You're supposed to try to survive. All of you who are trying to survive these class trials to continue living on are playing straight into MonoTV's hands. As if I'll accept that. I don't care how low I'll sink, or how despicable I'll have to become. I'll do anything to carry on Xander's ideals by ending this killing game, even if it means that I have to dirty my hands.

Firstly, I'm so glad that we're returning to the fact that this is a televised killing game! It seems like it has to be really important to whatever the lore is, so I'm glad that the students haven't artificially forgotten that fact until Chapter 6.

Secondly, I phrased this part as "is David telling the truth" because, initially, I thought that David had a different reason for lying about killing Arei. My thought was that he thought that pathetically advocating for himself would only make himself look more guilty, so he switched up tactics by making it look like so easy of a victory that people like Teruko would wind up proving his innocence themselves. Because that seemed plausible, I wanted to examine if David could have come up with this explanation on the fly. He's known for lying and should be socially savvy, so it's possible that this argument was just a red herring to conceal his true intentions.

However, given the prior section in which I argued that it really does seem like David knew and admired Xander prior to the killing game, I'm more inclined to believe that this was the true reason. Furthermore, this was a really interesting scene, and it'd be a shame to introduce such a fascinating character idea to toss it away for an "actually, he was just trying to lie about this Chapter 2 Trial."

There's also the good ol' Literature Girl Insane, for real this time. This plan reminded me so much of the "tallying votes" scene that I had to check it out for myself.

[12] “Majority rule” is known to be the fairest method of making decisions for a group. That's why murderers never complained when we voted for them to die.

The voting results definitely sound like David's plan. If he successfully made himself the killer, everyone would be executed, and while he would have "victory" over the killing game, it would certainly be a hollow one.

The 16 vote tally is still a bit more confusing, but I think you could relate it to David's plan as well. If you assume that David is the one getting all of the votes, you could say that his plan to end the killing game no matter the cost (throwing away his career, being hated by everyone, possibly even killing someone himself) might make him guilty of a crime/worthy of being voted for, whether he literally kills someone or not. Therefore, if the majority hates him and he achieves the closest thing to "victory" that he can, there's no reason for him to complain if it means he has to die. It could be his justification for why he has to fill out his mission, even if, in his heart, he doesn't want to.

I don't know if that's the explanation of footnote 12 or just an explanation with the new scenes given, but I think it's a possibility. There's also certainly far more to dive into regarding both David's worldview and the motivations behind the killing game, but if I started looking into that now, I wouldn't publish this post until way later. I'll have to leave that analysis for another time and/or another person.

Love Hu for this. At least for someone like me, who finds David's mindset sort of relatable at times, it's important to have someone around to point out the flaws of compulsive martyrdom and give a reality check that doing something wrong in the pursuit of what you think is right is still (sometimes) an utterly fucked up thing to do. They're both such good characters, and they work off each other so well.

Furthering the above point, even if David is doing it for what he believes to be "good" reasons, he's still ultimately manipulating people! You know, like his secret said!!! You don't have to believe that everyone is stupid to believe that you're smarter than them and you know what's best. But there's also the delicious irony that, despite Hu being the one to say this to David, she's also the one talking over Nico.

I am so sorry to all the whitvid shippers in the crowd. Unless this is the dynamic you crave, idk.

I wish that this line was voice acted just so that I could hear Ace's "uhh umm" Nico impression.

Are Hu and Nico Lying?

We're back at it again.

Needless to say, this is way more suspicious than J, Veronika, and David's alibi. First of all, Hu and Nico are only two people, which makes it far more believable that they could conspire on the murder together. Second, unlike the former random group of characters, this latter pair are very intertwined. And third, this supposed breakfast occurred in a private location that only Hu and Nico could have possibly seen, as opposed to J, who said she was in a public location. If Ace or whoever had been in the public Dining Room at 7:30 AM, he could have called J out for lying, whereas no one can contradict the idea of Nico and Hu being in Nico's room.

However, for Hu to be lying and for Nico to not oppose her (despite pointing out the fact that they were interrupted) would strongly imply that they'd have to be in on the plan to murder Arei together. The easiest way to get there would be to assume that they were also in on the plan to murder Ace together. Understandable enough; I'm sure we're all aware at this point that Nico and what appears to be Hu's wire were both found at the scene of the Gym crime. They could've tried to murder Ace, got caught, and then switched targets to a different bully because Ace was too on guard? Nico would have been able to grab the fish, so there's no issue there.

I'm inclined to believe that Nico and Hu are telling the truth just because I personally don't believe either of them to be Arei's blackened, and I don't understand what either of their motivations to be an accomplice specifically would be in this situation. It would be pretty hypocritical of Hu to go off on David for trying to control whether everyone else lives or dies if she was currently the blackened trying to get everyone else to die so she could live. Or, even worse, if she was an accomplice trying to get everyone else to die so that Nico could live. That'd basically be what David was trying to do with a different coat of paint!

However, this could easily be a lie, especially given how suspiciously late it was compared to what J said. We had a whole David monologue in the middle. Those things last for ages.

WHAT THE FUCK!!!

Okay, so, obviously, I could try to go over the implications of this, but with the next episode only a week away (I cry tears of joy), I think it's in my best interest to leave whatever I'll have to say about what Levi is doing until we have more information about his mindset. What a cliffhanger, though. Levi accomplice nation, it's currently looking... iffy.

Anyways, that was a fantastic episode! I loved getting a chance to learn more about Arturo, David, Xander, and the rest of the gang, with promise of more interesting things to come in the near future. I can't believe that they still haven't talked about the actual murder method at all. And that there were literally no trial mechanics in this video. Who needs 'em?

I hope you enjoyed my perspective on the episode. If you have any additions or questions, feel free to send me a comment or an ask. There's also a chance that I'll add onto this myself after seeing other people's ideas to respond to them. But for that, I'll have to read other people's ideas. I'm off to see what my mutuals have to say >:D See ya!

[witchlingcirce]

Tbh, I think the writers kind of fumbled by making so many of these characters not be adamant for the side there supporting! 😭😭

WHYYY is Aemond the only team green member team green??? Whyyyy is Jace the only team black member locking in (won the north, vale and the freys)

Can y’all get up or something ?? 😭😭😭

[booasaur]

Beacon 23 (2023) - Official Trailer

[billpottsismygf]

Finally some good fucking food! Thank you, wwdits writers! I can only rave about this episode. It was enjoyable throughout, but it really kicked into gear with Nandor's initial protectiveness at realising that this new job was taking advantage of Guillermo just as much as Nandor ever was.

That scene with Jordan saying he had something better for Guillermo than a speech, letting him think it would be a promotion, had me saying "it's the pilot again" out loud. And then the portrait came out. I love that they weren't too on the nose about it, but anyone who remembers the glitter portrait will understand the significance of it, and will feel the full joy of Guillermo flipping out rather than just accepting it.

God, the adrenaline surge when he started shouting at Jordan and then broke the stake off the desk. Honestly, he should have just staked the guy. Still, it was even more satisfying to 1) have Nandor rushing in to defend him and then 2) let Guillermo take Jordan down for all his dodgy business dealings.

The final couple of scenes between Nandor and Guillermo are what I've been waiting for all series. Clearly the writers didn't know how to pad out the time before they got here, because we've had almost nothing between them until this point, but now that we've got here I'm so fucking pleased. They're working together again! Guillermo's in the house again! Nandor is recognising and lauding Guillermo's status as a warrior again! Whatever the final episode brings, I'm glad at least that they're spending time together again.

[what-aboutno]

An analysis on c!Owen and his behaviour throughout the Outsiders SMP series!

Some disclaimers before I go into this. There will be spoilers up ahead! I would like to warn anyone reading that this post will mention some blacklisted members from the smp because their characters play a role in showing us about cOwen.

For convenience, all the members mentioned are the characters, not the actual ccs themself. Some of this might seem all over the place, but when the characters learn random parts of themselves at different points it's bound to happen.

Owen has changed a lot as the series has progressed and many find his personality to have changed entirely towards the end, however, this isn’t really the case. When we go over his character, we can see his core values have stuck with him throughout the series, so in this post, I will go over how exactly he has changed over time and his character in general.

To make it easier, I’m gonna split it into 3 parts. Early maze days, the introduction of clearing 2, and post memories.

During the early maze days Owen establishes his character very early on. Right from the beginning, Owen arrives with the demon Rasbi. They are notably one of the three pairs that come up, with most coming up the elevator alone. The first time we see him, Owen immediately takes up a role as a protector, asking if Rasbi knows how to fight in case there is danger up ahead.

In this first section, we can also see that he acts a lot more childish and naive. He’s very emotional and easily upset by his past. He can be seen jumping on rocks with Mohwee and the others and crying on his first night over his loss of memories. The overwhelmingness of the clearing gets to him. This isn’t to say he is some weak, stupid or soft character though. 

Owen may be naive in believing things should be played in certain ways according to his rules but there are many instances where we can see he’s not stupid. First episode he can immediately recognise what knife Oeca is holding “Hey that’s a throwing knife right? No that’s a dagger” 

After getting more settled in the maze he asks about the maze’s agriculture, he mentions everyone is unarmed despite fearing the dangers in the maze. He starts asking about protection, armour, shields and notably, “So this place is safe on the inside? It's safe to walk at night?” He’s already worried for everyone’s safety here, he knows the maze is dangerous so is there anywhere that’s safe? 

Very early on his past also becomes a very important aspect of his personality. He is probably one of the first to remember anything significant about his past. By episode 2 he is getting flashbacks about how to make a bow. But he makes a javelin first, noting “I think I was a hunter. No, I was an archer. I was a hunter. I was a soldier? I was good at this.” He then proceeds to aim the javelin at Oeca’s name, because at this point he can’t fully trust Ocea. He is very quick to violence, although he doesn't want Oeca dead, he certainly can’t trust in him. 

Another important note is that Mohwee is one of the people in the clearing he respected and saw as someone with the ability to act. Which is why we get this interaction where Mohwee calls out “Owen.” and Owen replies with “yes sir”. His past even without his memories is important and ingrained enough he still acts like this, and this only continues as we go through this section.

The first time they go in the maze as a group is when Apo arrives. This is a very important moment for Owen because their first trip in the maze solidifies his personality throughout this section and maybe even the series. Oeca is shot because Mohwee was careless and brought anyone in. When the group comes back, Owen asks Graecie, “How many entrances are there to this maze?” After finding out this is the only one that opens, he refuses to let anyone get hurt again and starts blocking it off.

Trust and promises are very important to Owen here too because it's one of the key reasons he blocks off the entrance. It’s not just Oeca getting hurt, it’s the fact he promised Graecie he wouldn't go in. “I broke my promise.” He also takes Apo’s word very seriously in the mine when he tells Owen he didn’t pull the lever. Also because of this he only trusts himself to go in the maze.

When the entrance is blocked off Owen is quick to violence and threatens people if they try to get past him. After finding the old battle axe he starts using it to threaten and intimidate people. “Anyone who goes past this (the gate) i will attack”

“Anyone else that will, I will just cut down” are some of the things he says. He punches Mohwee for trying to get past him. When Oeca comes back after Mohwee’s disappearance, Owen follows him with that battle axe trying to talk.

Owen then goes on to say “I’m not looking for violence” and “I'm not collecting weapons this was instinctual (points at bow)” he doesn't want people to think he’s dangerous and he knows people are scared of him.

Even if he seems aggressive he still wants to protect others. Owen goes back in the maze to look for Mohwee after he randomly disappears on their way back. “My job is to protect people and I will do that to the best of my abilities. At every possible stage”

When Mohwee disappears Owen takes a massive risk to stay in the maze overnight to see if the gates would open. “The only thing I remember about my life Graecie, is that I was raised to protect people. That's all I remember. And I know it was dumb and stupid to go in the maze but if it got us a step closer to finding Mohwee. I was willing to make that risk”

So we’ve established that Owen cares about the people in the clearing even if he doesn't trust all of them, he wants to protect them and he will do it no matter what. It's the purpose he has given himself in order to be useful.

He knows it doesn’t work how he wants it to. People are scared and wary of Owen’s protection. There are multiple instances where he tells his voices, “They don’t get it,” because he knows people don’t trust his methods. His method of control is disliked by a lot of people. 

Ori is one of the main characters to go against Owen. Owen hates this because not only does it risk the safety of others but it goes against his main purpose he gave himself. He takes this job very seriously. So when Ori goes in the maze it’s no wonder Owen becomes very violent.

“Ori I'm seriously sorry I will break your legs and I'm very close to it. Are you gonna make me. “

He doesn’t see himself to be super aggressive though “People think I'm being really aggressive when I talk like ‘oh hey if you come near me I'm gonna break your legs’ but I'm saying it in the most friendly way I can, you understand that right? I'm not trying to be aggressive with that”

“I'm saying like if you do step in here I will have to break your legs. In like a very gentle and I'm very sorry I hate to inconvenience you but I do have to break your legs.”

When Ori sneaks into the maze, Owen talks a lot about his purpose. Things like “Don't, I'll fail them. They'll kill me. My entire purpose here is to stay by this door and stop you from coming in.”

Owen hates to know he is failing the purpose he has given to himself “When I discovered I was a soldier that's what I set myself to (protecting others) but what do I have to show for myself? I have tried my hardest to protect these people. And get they look at me and tell me I'm a tyrant” “you're not in control, who are you to say what happens?”

He would do anything, even if it meant sacrificing himself. As shown before when Mohwee disappears but also as he protects the gate after the second lever gets pulled he says “I'm going to protect them if I die in the process so be it”  

Another note before this section ends is that it’s not just Ori who opposes Owen. Sillvia also talks about Owen’s method of leadership.

Sillvia about Owen: Owen I think you would be great. If not for the fact that you have a militaristic mindset. I don't want to see your leadership spiral into a place where Apo wants. Owen I fear you and I want you to know that. I actually fear you and I don't say that about many people. And ruling should not be through fear. You are a terrifying individual and to see you be in a position of power would be a slope we cannot afford or gamble slipping down. We've seen you tussle with Ori. I know you're a strong individual. You could lead us quite well but it's the risk that comes with your leadership that I am not willing to risk. 

The perception Owen has of himself differs from how he comes off. It becomes more of an issue later but we can already see this happen. 

So as clearing 2 is introduced this is what we know about Owen. He was a soldier once, he wanted to protect people in the clearing even if it meant sacrificing himself. He’s nice to others but his methods are still aggressive and violent, ready to hold a weapon to someone if needed and Owen cares a lot about trust. 

With the introduction of clearing 2 we can see how Owen changes and develops. He’s very cautious of clearing 2 members because for all he knows they could have led the creature that destroyed half their clearing in on purpose. 

Owen also faces betrayal from Apo. We know trust is something Owen values a lot. It’s mentioned in the early days, and it’s a major part of why he feels so strongly about Apo lying. During the scene where Owen faces Apo after finding he pulled the lever that killed the second clearing, his main issue with Apo isn’t the fact that he killed people. It was the fact he lied to him.

“You lied to me. Why did you do it? No no no I don't care about the lever. Apo why did you lie to me? You're my friend I trusted you. I stayed there. I held your back when oeca said it was you. I put my name on the line. Because we stood together in the mine and I asked you to swear to my face that you didn't do it. And you lied to me. Im meant to be your friend and you lied.” 

You can also see what Owen values in a person when they discuss Apo’s punishment and Owen says there's 3 main things he did

- went into maze without group consent

- pulled the lever

- he lied

Owen only adds on at the end that he left Squidney.

With all of this too we see Owen for the first time back away from the job he gave himself. He backs away from leadership, we start to see how tired Owen is from the stress of it all. His reasoning has to do with his trust being broken.

“What's the point they're all liars. This entire place is filled with filthy liars. Every single person. All I've ever done is tried to protect them”

“Forget it. I'm done. I'm don't helping people. No I'm not villain, I'm not a hero I'm nothing.

From now on there is no leader of the maze. They put me in charge. My word means nothing to them I'm done.”

“How am I meant to protect them when I try and stop them with physical force im made out to be some kind of monster. When I try to reason with them I'm made out to be soft.”  

Owen being viewed as soft has always been something he’s aware of. People tend to think because he’s kind that they can do whatever they want (sneak into the maze etc) and this perception Owen is a soft person develops. Even if he’s emotional and kind we’ve seen before in early maze days he is not soft. 

Owen tries to ignore all his problems but with it he grows more aggressive than before. His tone changes when he speaks about other people to his voices.

“To visit him would be to acknowledge he exists. And right now the last thing I want to do is consider the fact that this thing lives and breathes and eats and sleeps under my feet. The sooner he wastes away and fades into nothingness the better. I don't see a life going forward with him in it” - Owen about Apo

“The more I look around these stupid 4 walls the more I'm reminded that he that. That I trusted him.”

"he's everywhere. It's like a disease. Like it festers. The outside looks fine and you look just below the surface and it's rotting vile and it's him”

Apo: Just give me a chance.

Owen: why should I? So you can have another tick to the long list of times Owen has naively believed there is some good in the people that infests this clearing? Oeca, mohwee, Bekyamon, Magic, Graecie, Ori, you, liars. All of you.

I’m not just putting quotes here just for you to see oh trust is important! But more so for you to see that Owen changes when his trust has been broken or when he sees someone as a threat. Some of these things sound very similar to what Owen would say when he gets his memories back. Because to Owen trust and protection are 2 very important values. When that is broken he can’t be certain someone isn’t a threat. 

With this change Owen does become more aware he isn’t the most approachable person due to his methods. I do want to bring up this quote first though 

"Can I kill someone? Ive been thinking about this recently I say I'm a soldier. But I've never actually killed anyone. All my life in these 4 walls I've spoken about security and fighting and I can't remember a time I've actually taken someone's life. What if I have to. What if it comes to that I don't think I could stomach it either. I doesn't feel like me. It's not me it's not who I am. No I can't. I'll only attack this person if they do something first. And even then I'll just aim to incapacitate" - Owen about Ash

This is an interesting quote from Owen knowing his later actions but it’s not that out of character. If we look at every flashback he’s had so far we can see the life of a soldier is not one he’s always wanted.

Owen to his dad: What if I'm not ready to be your protector? No It's what you've always wanted! What if I wanted to do something else? What if I don't want to be a soldier what about me when do I get to look out for myself.

However he is always ready to attack if he needs to, if it comes to it he would do anything to protect someone. I think that means to kill even if Owen doesn’t think so at this point. 

His notebook btw

Another note about his behavior is that because of how others view him he almost dies from the creature’s venom. Ayngel even said before Owen is more angry. Other people even though it sounds jokingly say Owen gets grumpy when people disrupt him, leading to no one but Soup to check up on him when he gets stung.

When Bek comes back he doesn’t hesitate to do the things he did before. He does what he thinks is right and protects Magic by aiming a javelin at Bek. He says he’s not violent but anytime he feels like he’s in danger he pulls out a weapon. He did it when he was in Soup’s basement, he does it anytime he hears about someone potetially harming Rasbi, and he did it when he heard Oeca attacked Graecie. 

Owen in general is a fighter at heart. Even if he says he doesn’t want to kill anyone he is still ready to attack. 

Owen: this isn't you Ori. You fight. That's what you do.

Ori: what are you talking about?

Owen: you fight people. When you don't get your way you fight. You and I are the same

At the end of this section, the group decides not to go back in the maze. They had lost Squidney, Oeca, Mohwee, with the presumption that Red, Apo and Graecie were either dead or dying. Owen is tired of it all “Every Time I've tried to protect someone they've ended dead Kyle” he tries to hope but he is so tired. This tiredness also explains some things that happen when he gets his memory back. 

So to summarise before looking at Owen when he gets his memories back, this is what we know about Owen. He wants to protect his friends, he believes in trust a lot, he is both seen as more aggressive and angry these days and soft at the same time, he wants to be a good leader but other people don’t listen. Not much has changed since the early maze days, but it’s a more solid character now. 

When the reunion comes around Owen in the story has finally had a moment to think about everything that happened between him and Apo. His main regret in the series was how he treated him even if he broke his trust. 

Owen loves to contradict himself a lot but it’s a very human trait he has. He has complex feelings about Apo, and Beks and a lot of people. Yet he’ll still offer his protection to them. It’s because of this the ‘sudden’ shift in personality he has becomes very shocking to the audience. 

Since right before he sees Apo, Owen is very emotional here. Very similar to how he was in the early maze days. It’s out of his character to hope for something like seeing Apo because he knows it’s very unlikely he’ll see him again. However he gives himself this hope, one more chance. 

When Owen regains his memories the tone shift is obvious. He acts less emotional, he seems more mature. But we do need to consider this is someone who just had a lifetime of memories shoved back in his head and his core values are so strong that Owen doesn’t hesitate to act the way he used to. 

There’s lots of similarities to Owen here to the one we’ve known. Like his purpose. He sets one for himself immediately after arriving in the clearing. Even as he talks to Apo about his past he talks about his purpose

“I had a purpose once. I was useful, vital, adored. And suddenly everything changed. The world grew tired of blood shed. When all you're good for is violence, when you've been breed into a killing machine, a nation of peace will toss you aside like a spent torch”

There’s an obvious difference here right? The man we’ve watched in the maze who wanted to protect his friends just killed his best friend. This is definitely a different person right? Yes and no. Owen hasn’t changed that much, and I'll explain why after we go through some more things. But it’s important to note that this isn’t a completely new person, this isn’t something that is unexpected when we go through the information we already have about Owen. 

“I know what you are, you are everything wrong in the world has to offer. You are the amalgamation of all the gluttony and lust of humans with the evil and cunning of demons. You stand as a testament to everything vile. You are a disease on the face of this earth and I am it's curse” 

Apo: this isn't you you've changed 

Owen: incorrect, this is me. The man you manipulated and lied was nothing more than a puppet driven by the instinct to survive. 

Owen wants protection for his friends. He goes to extreme lengths to keep people safe, so when he remembers demons as this evil creature that will hurt people for their own gain he wasn’t going to stand around and do nothing right? 

Surprising or not this is very in character for Owen if we look at everything else we have from the series. To him, he is still doing his job, the one he’s done since day 1 in the clearing. Just now the threat isn’t just the maze and the occasional person, it’s demons. 

The way Owen became a demon hunter is essential too. He used to live in comfort, and based on past flashbacks he was training to be a soldier even if he didn’t fully enjoy it. His mother was a poet and his father was a general. He had grown up hearing all about how terrible demons are, and he didn’t understand until his village had been burned down.

One negative interaction with demons had put this deep hatred in his heart for them. Before his memories returned he was ready to forgive Apo, he knew he wasn’t as dangerous as he made him out to be. But when the sudden influx of memory comes, he has this past knowledge that Apo is a threat. 

Since Apo had hurt Owen before this only adds to it. Remember Owen really values trust. Apo has broken that trust in the past, so everything combined and letting go of the final restriction it’s no wonder he kills Apo. 

Despite this ‘massive personality change’ Owen has, when he returns to the clearing he still makes sure Magic is safe. He doesn't tell people about the lava rising so he wouldn’t cause panic. He still cares about these people. 

But Owen starts to view all the demons as a threat, every demon in the clearing has done something to suggest they could be dangerous. The reason Owen kills Guts is because they poisoned the food at the feast, which led to Magic being poisoned. He carries out this duty for protection

I think another thing people tend to forget about Owen is that he's been slowly breaking apart trying to fit what others want from him as seen in the last section. And it took a major toll on him. His outburst at Magic is one of the ways shown to us how much stress he’s been under. Perhaps even guilt he’s been feeling.

Magic: if you don't you're just putting everyone danger by not leading us… in there…

Owen: danger? You want to talk about putting others in danger? All of this coming from who exactly? The woman who's clearing burnt down under her leadership? The woman who lied about that previous position of leadership as she lacked the spine to correct her friend when she lied? The woman who was tied up and left for dead by that same friend? The woman who swore to protect a stranger only to them shot down in front of her? What the woman who stood still as her friend was ripped apart beside her? Oh yeah the magnitude of your failures Magic is deafening. Do you hear it? When you fall asleep at night, do you hear the screams of the dead who's blood stain your hands? How do you cope? When you find out be a good friend and let me know would you? Been looking for a way to shut them up. 

Owen does try to justify his actions to his voices even if they don’t listen. He knows people here aren’t good. He’s known this since clearing 2 was introduced, but with his memories back he feels like he has to carry on this duty by killing the threat. That’s the only way to keep people in the clearing safe right?

Owen to voices: have you stopped to think why I'm doing this? You seem so attached to these creatures, why? What good have they done? These people aren't good people. None of us good people. We're all in here for a reason. Just because you haven't taken your rose tinted glasses off to see that doesn't mean the rest of us haven't. 

Like before he won’t let anything stop him, even if it means hurting a few people. He doesn't hesitate to pull out a weapon when he hears Ayngel might know him. He can’t risk anything ruining his plans because he can’t afford to. He’s so tired. I think at this point anyone that was a major threat to him he would kill. 

Ayngel: I feel like I recognise you. You and your face from somewhere 

Owen: oh? (Starts to pull out knife from his bag)

Ayngel: I've been having this thought and it's got me thinking (Owen pulls out a knife in case)

Ayngel: actually, honestly forget it. It's all a dream and I'm overthinking

The only exception to his thinking is Rasbi. Rasbi actually hasn’t done anything wrong to him personally. She’s one of the few people that didn’t break his trust but he still kills her. Why? 

First off he doesn’t see her as the friend he wanted to protect but instead as something he protected only to kill in the end to fulfil his duty. Her sister is the reason why he ended up in the maze, so even without Rasbi directly harming Owen in any way it’s enough for Owen to kill her. I’m sure any small mistake or detail would have led Owen to killing any demon, because it only proves his thinking. 

Owen barely survives after Rasbi attacks him. So as Owen starts planning how to kill Krow he starts going a bit insane. His room is a mess, his mind is a mess and he can barely stand it anymore. We really start to see him fall apart here

Owen: this yolk is a burden is a burden I can't carry for much longer. I'm tired. I want to rest. But I took a pact, I made a promise. A glorious death is his for who his country falls and either I or they thing will have to die before I stop. 

Something that’s brought up when discussing the idea of ‘Maze Owen’ is the fact that we can see ‘glimpses’ of him in different interactions. For example when Owen and Krow go out into the maze and Owen spots Puddy he makes sure Puddy doesn’t die by keeping him away. Even if he’s aggressive in the scene the fandom interpretation is the care he has for Puddy as ‘Maze Owen’ slipped through. But It’s not out of character for him to still show care for people after his memories are returned based on everything we’ve seen.

Before ‘killing’ off Krow, Owen does say this “There's no escaping who you are” Which is really interesting since most characters he’s interacted with will tell him in the maze you can escape who you used to be. Owen knows for a fact no matter what he does in life now he will never have anything outside the maze. Because the world doesn’t need him anymore. He kills the demons as his final act of service to the world because he has nothing else to offer. 

When Krow finally comes back and Owen gets hit in the head he says to the rest of the group “I was protecting you all.” and “You don't know what they're like! You haven't seen the outside world.”

Looking at his final moments we see that everyone that Owen has cared about doesn’t trust him anymore. They don’t believe his protection was needed. He’s told that he will not get out of this cell. He’s left alone in the silence of the cell. Finally with the time to think. He starts experiencing multiple flashbacks and it makes it hard for him to think. 

We’ve seen in the past how Owen deals with multiple flashbacks. It gives him a headache or causes him pain in some cases. He also becomes really emotional afterwards. This follows the same case. Except he starts to realize some things.

Krow: I know those eyes. That glint of desperation for approval but knowing it's never coming. We're more similar than you let yourself believe you and I

(Flash back ‘i was an archer.?’ ‘i was a hunter?’ I was a soldier)

“I was a tool. Used.”

He knows he’s going to die soon and he starts to panic. The most important line he says is 

“So what now? This is it!? I deserve to die in battle. I killed them. It was what I. Its just what I was meant to do. I was trained. Should i have? I should have. I should have. I can't think inside my head, it's split in two” 

“So what voices? What was I before then huh? Was that me? Is that who people trust? People trust that one. Old Owen. Yes? It wasn't me. That wasn't me” flashback about Apo first coming up

“I can't think. I can't. They trusted him. They trusted him but not me? My head…”

After this he pleads with Magic to let him out. Owen claims “I hurt them, I hurt my friends. Rasbi, Guts. And Apo, Krow I don't know why I did those things” He pleads and cries. And he's desperate

Owen: “No magic it's me please.” 

Magic: “You kill people owen”

Owen: “It wasn't me I'm sorry. I just wanted to keep people safe.” 

Owen: “Magic please don't go… no… magic. You can't do this.”

Magic: “I can and I am” 

I think when we look at these final clips there’s a very important thing happening. Owen is separating himself from the past. He can’t understand why his friends don’t trust him. Even though nothing has changed. To him his eyes have been opened to the dangers of demons and he fulfilled his purpose. 

Why does this separation even happen? This is where we move to the final part of this long analysis and look at theories. There’s no way I can say for sure this is right or this is wrong. I can only tell you what I think based on the material already there. 

So before I go into this I have to emphasize I am not saying you can't refer to earlier Owen as maze Owen to explain Owen at different periods of his life. I'm saying when we really look at it, maze Owen doesn't exist since they're the same person. 

So what am I talking about? The concept of ‘maze’ Owen has been around for a long time. Even ccOwen talks about his character like that. The idea that just because Owen didn’t have his memories that he was some sweet, soft guy that needs to be babied is something that affects a lot on how you view him as a character. 

'maze' Owen doesn't actually exist because it's a way that Owen has come up with to justify to himself how he could have cared for demons without shattering his ideals. This is confused with Owen have distinct personalities and missing how he hasn't strayed from his ideals since the start with his idea of protecting everyone.

To separate that period of Owen's life in the maze ignores the fact that the characteristics you see in Owen post reunion are the same from before but taken to the extreme.

He's always been capable of ‘evil’'. It's the same as every other character in the series. We don't separate them like we do with Owen. Every character in the series is inherently morally gray, they do things out of desperation to survive. You can never say someone is 100% good or bad. 

Owen’s same mindset of 'I need to protect the people I care about because they're in danger now' carries through. After the reunion in his head demons are no longer part of that group he wants to protect. 

The separation of 'maze' and post reunion Owen forgets even in the post memory phase he had the ability to love like 'maze' Owen had. He released Puddy, he started a small farm, he started to relax. It's all part of him.

In his final moments he says a few important things to note. The first being "I was a tool. I was trained. Should I have... I should have." And then right after "I can't think in my head it's split in two"

It seems some take this as 'maze' Owen coming back and fighting with Owen on should he have killed Apo and the others. However rather than 'maze' Owen coming back i think it's this internal conflict he has with himself and his ideals.

Before he says this he's getting flashbacks to the early maze days where he showed kindness to demons. Something he would never let himself do in the past outside the maze. And something he would never do after he remembers it all.

Then he says to the voices "Is that who people trust? Old Owen" while those memories are playing. The voices respond saying they miss that Owen and he replies "Yes? That wasn't me" this is possibly where it further adds to the whole 'maze' Owen is a different person thing.

Rather than facing the fact that his thinking doesn’t make sense anymore he separates himself from those memories. As soon as Owen accepts that demons are not these creatures that betray and kill you at any moment, his life has no purpose.

Owen’s thinking comes from the manipulation and propaganda he's been fed. In his final episode we get these quotes which show just how much his thinking revolves around protection and also showing what years of training did to him.

He understands he was a tool that was used. He's well aware everything he is doing may not have a purpose and yet he still plays this part. He can't break away from that thinking because if he lets himself, Owen has to face the fact that his whole life had no true meaning.

That is a terrifying thing to do. He has been in this environment for so long you can’t just take him out of it. 

Going over everything you can access in Owen’s pov, we know that before gaining his memories Owen is a person that cares deeply about his friends, he risks himself to protect them, he won’t hesitate to hold a weapon against someone he sees as a threat. Owen thinks trust is an important value to have, he takes it very seriously. But we also know that not everyone likes Owen and his leadership. He’s seen with a military mindset, people don’t want to upset him and it nearly costs his life.

Now let’s compare that with the Owen we get to know after his memories return. He wants to protect the people he deeply cares about, he risks himself to protect them, he doesn’t hesitate to hold a weapon against someone that he sees as a threat, only now the threat is demons. When we start looking at these differences, yes, Owen when he regains his memories is different, his tone changes, he murders people. But those core values we’ve seen throughout the series stay with him.

It’s one of the reasons why Owen can’t understand why no one in the clearing is on his side. He protected them against the threat they didn't know about. That is his purpose, and that’s what he’s good for. Remember right at the beginning of the series Owen sets his purpose to protect these people, now this is still the same. He views demons as a threat because he hasn’t had good experiences with them. Even if Apo became his friend in the clearing, Apo ends up lying to Owen, and betraying his trust. Guts became his friend but Guts tried to poison Magic. Owen has never fully trusted Krow and that distrust only furthers once he knows what Krow is capable of based on his experiences with demons.

So let’s go back to the previous question: who was it there? You’re probably thinking well how do you explain maze Owen and the chips. ccOwen has mentioned before that it's a possibility for the chips to alter memories. Maybe Starr suppressed those memories and maze Owen was there again. Or he was hit hard on the head right? Maybe his chip was damaged and it altered his emotions and memory.

There is too little known information to us as an audience about the chips in their head. We know they can supposedly make the outsiders lose track of time, alter their memories, their emotions and change how they act. But if the chips in their head is the explanation for everything then why does Owen remember killing his friends when he talks to Magic? He says it like he wasn't the one doing it, like he watched someone else do it. How do you explain his behaviour then? If the damaged chip really made him act like that then why do flashbacks still occur when he's in prison? He seems to have no control over those, so the chip must still work fine?

I think when we look at his character the maze has already changed him whether he likes it or not. There’s more doubt in him than before. He lets Apo go with extra time. He hesitated before he ran after him. No matter how small, he has changed.

But when Owen talks about himself in the past he makes this separation. The voices in his head won't stop calling for the guy they used to know, even though he's right here. I think Owen doesn't even want to acknowledge at one point he was friends with the demons he hated so much. 

In that prison cell all his ideals and values are facing him. Everything he's done and he's known has been a lie. I think he knows this but can't bring himself to acknowledge that. Would you admit what you thought for your entire life was wrong? That you killed countless for nothing?

When faced with death Owen becomes desperate. Which I think explains his behaviour with Magic. That is his last hope and he knows people like the older version of him. I don't think he's fully lying though when he says i don't know why I did those things. Not because maze Owen came back or anything but because in the maze he no longer has this duty but he still carries it out. He's so tired from it all and he wants to leave it behind but he can't.

So let's go over his death scene one more time. “My head it's split in two” I think the explanation for this is that he was just hit with a bunch of flashbacks of his first days. Right before this he also says ‘I was a tool. Used’ I believe in his final moments where he has a moment to think he starts to fight himself. Should he have done all this for a country that throws him away the second he's useless? He was trained to do this. But should he have really? That's what I think is making him say my head it's split in two. He's fighting his own views and alongside these positive memories it makes him confused. And overwhelmed.

It's important to note Owen doesn't have a single bad flashback about Apo and Rasbi. He doesn't think about the levers, he thinks about his friends that he met. That he protected.

The more flashbacks he gets the more defensive he becomes. “I'm right here you can't convince me otherwise” He doesn't understand why the Owen in his memories is trusted so much, even though they're the same person. In his mind he's doing what he's always done. protect.

“It wasn't me I'm sorry I just wanted to keep people safe” everything he says to Magic is half genuine and half lie. I don't think even Owen knows which parts are which. It's easier if he separates himself into the nice trusted Owen and who he is now.

No matter what in the end, that was Owen. Not Maze Owen but Owen who is desperate to live. He's tired of it all. He's finished his mission and he won't even get to see what he thinks will be an honorable ending for him.

Remember what Owen says to Apo? "The man you manipulated and lied was nothing more than a puppet driven by the instinct to survive."

So of course he'll do anything to survive even if it means playing up the truth.

It's hard to separate Owen into these neat boxes and say for sure that was Maze Owen at the end or that was full manipulation. Because like Owen everything is a bit grey here. Maze Owen wasn't the best person, he hurt his friends, people were scared of him. And post memories Owen isn't some misunderstood guy that needs babying either. 

My final thoughts on this debate is that in the end the one that pleads for his life is just Owen. To separate him and say it was Maze Owen doesn't allow you to understand how complex Owen is as a character. And continues to let you believe that Owen can't do anything wrong. Not understanding sometimes a good person is capable of this evil. To the end Owen still believed he was doing what was right and that was protecting the ones he cared about. So has anything really changed since the start?

[starrysharks]

jaundice has like 3 crazy lesbian situationships it's rough for her

[deoidesign]

Hm... I'm feeling benevolent...

[weirdozjunkary]

Having to wait till fucking January, while everyone else gets to see the third Sonic movie in December, has to be the worst fucking punishment the universe has ever given me. I am gonna lose it.

[intuitive-revelations]

I don't know if I'm excited or frustrated at the 'future children' angle for Susan's origin. On one hand... I'm very interested in the possible links to the likes of Miranda, the Other etc.

On the other hand... ok confession time: This may make me a minority in the fandom, but I actually really dislike the 80s-90s retcons of Susan's origin. (Birth of a Renegade, Lungbarrow etc.)

I kinda just like her and the Doctor being some of the last surviving members of what was once a family on Gallifrey. I find the mystery and tragedy of what happened on Gallifrey, with implied student uprisings and political assassinations, far more intriguing than any twists saying "actually she's not really his granddaughter". Fortunately, some things can be canonwelded into that (eg. Susan really could be also related to the president / descended from Rassilon), but stuff that actually gives her an origin elsewhere is always a pain.

Idk. I just see once being a parent (and losing it all tragically) as such a crucial part of the Doctor's background and Susan fits very well into that as far as I'm concerned. Anything disconnecting her from that, or worse erasing it completely, ultimately damages what I find to be one of the most compelling things about the Doctor and Susan. :/

The few posts I've already seen talking about this suggests this is an unpopular opinion, but I'd be interested to know what people think, and if they agree or disagree...