#not to mention the whole thing with peter in s4

[somuchbetterthanthat]

S3 is obviously the jonelias season, as far as TMA goes, so much so they weren't allowed to have more than one scene per season afterwards cause the chemistry was burning our ears (at least that's what I assume is the very real and concrete and logical discussion that happened in the recording room), but that can't stop me from constantly remembering the crumbs we got afterwards and how insane they were

You know the thing where Peter mentions Elias a thousand times before Elias finally acknowledges that he even exists? That but Elias is constantly discussing Jon with other people in S4 but Jon does not mention him AT ALL until after the whole Feeding Reveal and - and i know i repeat myself, okay, I know i must be so annoying about it, but like, genuinely, seriously, this is what Jon does, with his alloted "talking about elias time": he says he'd hoped Elias would have advice on how not to feed from people's trauma. Jonathan Darling Sims, the man you ARE. I love you so much.

I love Jmart ok, I do, and S4 is their season, if anything, and EVEN SO, in the episode where Jon is running to save Martin, the very same Jon who had Martin's name on his lips the whole season (hell the whole podcast, but, yknow), the moment he is in the Panopticon there's a pause. "How?" he asks. "Suffice to say I called you" answers Elias (oh the mindlink of it all that never was, nnGH) and then "My, you have grown. A masterpiece, isn't it?" "Yeah, it is." (BEHOLDING KINK-) and theeen "That's your...body?" AND THEN the whole discussion where Elias is like "if you harm it it wouldn't go well" and jon is like "maybe it'd be worth it" and I just. JON IS HERE TO SAVE MARTIN; JON HAS BEEN THINKING ABOUT MARTIN THE WHOLE SEASON; and in this one scene, this one moment, Elias is the one who has to remind him of Martin.

Admitedly I recall S5 the least, but I'd be remissed not to mention that Martin wants to kill Elias soooo much more than Jon (the martinelias of it all is for another post). HOWEVER, Jon is angry, which is logical coz, you know, Elias did steal his voice and agency and put in on the path of monsterhood just so that he could do that and they could "end the world together" so like. Your Feelings Are Valid, Jonathan. NONETHELESS, The fact that Jon was thinking of Elias and being so angry against him that it triggered more of his power and made him see the Cabin for what it was??? That the Eye was like "hey darling, you're not home yet, come on" and that's what starts Jon and Martin's journey to the Panopticon? I'm sorry, but it's BASICALLY "Suffice to say I called you" all over again.

The fact that Jon cannot actually see Elias the whole time because "a pupil cannot see inside itself" or whatever the line is.

"Agonized bliss". "Then why did you heed the call?" "Because that's where I belong." (scratching at the walls at this point)

"G.O.O.D. L.U.C.K."

[zabala0z]

Welcome back to “listening to S4 of TMA and sobbing!” I’m your host, you know me, unfortunately. I swear to god-

MAG 125: Civilian Casualties

Am I going insane or was Callum McKenzie mentioned before??? The name is so familiar and I searched through all the transcripts and my notes. Closest thing I could find was in A Sturdy Lock, the old man’s last name was McKenzie but I don’t think that’s related. Anyways, I think this is the slaughter

Also the bullet. And Melanie’s screaming. Is that also related to the slaughter, her increase in violence??

MAG 126: Sculptors Tools

The whole time I was like “is this Michael??” But no this guys name was Gabriel but then he mentioned Sannikov and I was so confused until Jon mentioned the worker in clay and I immediately shrieked. And Gertrude stopped him. What a badass.

Martin talking to Tim makes me wanna scream. And Peter said some interesting stuff. Isolation. Elias’s ritual. I think Peter is trying to make a ritual for The Lonely before Elias because competition or something. And then the “when it’s over, you won’t want to tell him” like wtf does that mean. This is why I equally hate him with Elias.

MAG 127: Remains to be seen

Very The Eye. I actually never thought much on Jonah Magnus but I should’ve because yeah, that guy is suspicious. I need to pay more attention to old timey statements.Also, “I was trying to see if the statements called to me” like Jon, you know that makes you look more unhinged, right??? And Martins mom is dead now which makes me wanna like strangle myself.

And then there’s the infamous bastard; love Elias’s prison arc, it suits him more.

(EDIT 9/19: forgot to mention, Albrecht said at one point “I don’t read the books, the books read me” which reminds me of MAG 91 when Mike said he couldn’t read that one book but it read him. Think those are related. Okay that’s it)

MAG 128: Heavy Goods

I know they (or he now) are evil but Breekon was low key sympathetic during this. Also, DAISYS ALIVE. Oh so Daisy can be alive but Tim can’t, someone rip out my throat. ☹️ but I am happy. And sad. She sounds like she’s going through it according to Breekon. Or at least Breekon words extracted by Jon, which, by the way, what the hell. He can do that??? Starting to realize the true horror of his powers cause damn.

MAG 129: Submerged

Oh yay, gentrification. The true horrors of the world.

“I miss you” so what if I screamed! I need to like punch a pillow after every Martin/Jon conversation.

Anyways, I think this entity is like the buried? Can the buried count with water? Drowning? You know? Anyways “The Sunken Sky” is like the coolest name ever for The Buried. How do they all have such cool names?? Apparently Gertrude sacrificed Jan Kilbride because he was marked by The Vast and throwing him diwn a pit was enough. That’s the guy from MAG 106. There always seems to be at least one sacrifice to stop a ritual, y’know. Hate it

I have a bad feeling about Jon trying to find Daisy. Because duh. And basira is off on a secret errand which I believe is whatever Elias told her about. The new way to defend themselves. I don’t know who it’ll be. Maybe a new character?? If not, I can’t think of a strong character who could help them, especially associated with Elias

Okay!! I think that’s everything. I’ve been filling my sketchbook with TMA art, I love it. Final thoughts, uh, hate Peter, worried for Martin, worried about Melanie, overly analyzing everything, etc, etc. I hate my brain can’t ever stop when listening to this.

[erikiara80]

@starsarefire824 You asked me to explain my tags about Will “vanishing” from many scenes. It took me a while, but I’m here with the evidence.

I talk about the snow ball here . I was rewatching the episode and I noticed that after Mike and El kiss, I can’t see Will anymore. 

We see him dancing with that girl, so he should be there, but he’s not. Before the last shot with the Mind Flayer it seems like Will never went to the snow ball. And it’s very interesting, since the whole show starts with his disappearance, and Joyce, Mike and other characters ask many times where’s Will? or can’t find him.

And every time it happens, there’s always something going on with the UD or even the lab.

In S3, Will seems to disappear behind Billy/MindFlayer/Vecna. This is so intentional. It really seems like Will isn’t there, right?

In S4, it happens more than once. Especially at Suzie’s. The scenes in her house are definitely foreshadowing of the rest of the season, and imo, of S5 too. So here Will disappears during “the love confession” (so, connection to Byler but also Vecna)

Noah slowly moves and then poof, you can’t see him anymore.

But here it’s even more clear, because in the third shot Noah is not there at all. I rewatched the scene many times. And I’m not sure what this moment with the kids in the kitchen means, but they mention Peter and salt, two things that are connected to Henry and water (salt kills spores. Also, Bobokahn’s theory in the comments) This is when Cornelius turns out the lights. And in the Creel House Nancy said: When Will was in the UD, lights came to life...

In this shot in the desert we can still see Will’s arms, but it’s so weird if not done on purpose. Plus, look at the difference between his outfit and Mike’s! Will's basically blends in with the desert.

But while I was looking for scenes with Will, I found something about Mike too. I could be wrong, but I can’t see him, and even if he’s there, it’s hard to see him.

This is when Eddie is talking to Jason. 

But then, where’s Mike?

Techically, he’s behind the girl with the glasses, but my point is, it’s like they’re trying to hide him. Because we can still see Dustin and his hat.

So, yeah. It’s intentional. And imo it’s all connected to Joyce’s question in S2. The most important question. What happens when my boy is gone? 

Owens never answers, but I think we’ll get the answer to that question in S5.

And Mike is part of that answer, because, of course he is

[aemiron-main]

Creelarke and the Lost Boys of Montauk

Alright, so! Something that’s interesting as all hell to me is that Scott Clarke is the name of a real person. And sure, “Scott Clarke,” is likely a common name, but this isn’t just any Scott Clarke.

This Scott Clarke was one of the lost boys of Montauk.

So, if you’re unaware, “Montauk,” was the original name for Stranger Things.

Take a look at the original pitch for ST:

Scott was originally supposed to have a much larger role. And he was also compared to Indiana Jones, which is a whole other can of worms in and of itself. He’s also described as the key, which is interesting considering not only all of the key imagery in ST, but specifically key imagery tied to Henry and the Creels (Robin’s keyhole jacket at the Creel house, saying she “found a key,” when shattering the door’s window, the attic door being locked for Erica, etc) .

However, as I mentioned earlier Scott Clarke was also the name of a real person, one of the lost boys of Montauk, who vanished on a fishing boat in Montauk in 1984.

As well, not only do we have the “lost boys of Montauk,” but we also have the Lost Boys from Peter Pan (and Peter Pan is on the S4 movie board), which, considering this post that I made regarding all of the “Peter,” references in ST and the idea of Peter being Scott from another timeline (especially considering the Hawkins Lab extras that look weirdly similar to Scott), is definitely interesting.

As well, the movie “The Lost Boys,” is on the S4 movie board, and so, that “lost boy,” imagery keeps popping up in ST, and is also tied to Scott via the lost boys of Montauk.

Also, not only do we have the real lost boys of Montauk regarding the ones who died at sea, but we also have the Montauk Boys who were allegedly kidnapped in Montauk and experimented on (this is why the original ST pitch was called Montauk). Which, again, is interesting considering that post I linked about the Hawkins lab extras who look eerily similar to Scott.

I’m not quite sure how it all ties together yet, but there’s definitely something here. Especially with Henry/Edward messing with time so much, and the Lost Boys from Peter Pan being boys who “wouldnt grow up”- and the original Peter Pan has Peter kill the lost boys to prevent them from aging, and has him obsessed with death rather than obsessed with eternal life. We’ve also got the whole “skull rock,” scene in S4 (Skull Rock is from Peter Pan), where Eddie/Edward Munson is hiding, which makes me think of Edward Creel and some sort of connection to him, especially if Scott was actually Peter in the Edward timeline.

As well, not only is Skull Rock tied to Peter Pan’s lost boys, but Steve mentions vampires when he’s at Skull Rock, and the characters from The Lost Boys (1987) are vampires, so again, that lost boy imagery keeps coming back:

We also get this exchange at skull rock:

Which is interesting because Scott was the one teaching about electromagnetic fields in S3 and explaining them go Joyce.

Anyway! Much to think about. It's interesting that Scott somehow knows so much about sensory deprivation tanks and information related to gates, and also has extras at the lab that look weirdly similar to him, and also shares a name with one of the lost boys of Montauk and was also suppsoed to later be "essential" to solving the mystery of what happened in Montauk according to the pitch. What is going on with him?? What does he know??

[somereaderinblue]

USM Good Carnage!Harry AU

WARNING: SPOILERS FOR USM S2 & S4 WILL BE MENTIONED

I’ve been getting back into USM & recently, I’ve rewatched S4E21-23 (Spider-Slayers Trilogy), S2E8 (Carnage) and have gotten hooked on this amazing Parksborn fic by @ultimatepeter-man​.

Before I get into the actual AU idea, pls bear with me. In the Spider-Slayers Trilogy, MJ debuted as Spider-Woman.

Long story short: After the whole Carnage Queen fiasco, some of the symbiote stayed bonded to her which gave her a suit + powers similar to Agent Venom.

Now let me make this clear. I LOVE badass action girls & the first time I watched this, I was thrilled to see MJ get a chance to shine as a fellow spider.

BUT

Honestly? This doesn’t vibe with me, mainly bcz it feels waaaaay too rushed. This literally happened near the end of the show. The fact that MJ was largely absent throughout the series made it feel as though the writers wanted to shove the MJ x Parker ship into our faces after not touching a het ship at all.

(Pls note that I have NOTHING against that ship. I’m just saying that the writers didn’t do it right here.)

Which brings me to my next point: our boi Harry Osborn, who compared to MJ, played a much bigger role throughout the series. He had more involvement, more development and frankly, USM Harry had some of the best chemistry with Peter. Yes USM is what got me into Parksborn, so sue me. 

Which brings me to this AU:

Instead of MJ getting a symbiote power-up at the end of the series run, let Harry get one. Except this time, (1) he firmly uses it for good & (2) it’s the Carnage symbiote.

How it happens:

-During S2E8, slight divergence wherein Peter successfully tells Harry he’s Spidey before most things proceed like canon.

-However, during the fight, Goblin seemingly manages to destroy Venom, leaving Harry ‘powerless’.....or so everyone thinks.

-Cue Parksborn going on a date, baddies attack and BOOM! Harry reveals that the symbiote decided to stay with him.

-Sprinkling some inspo from MSM, Carnage now has an orange-grey color scheme similar to Hobgoblin.

-Old married couple bickering happens between Parksborn as they kick ass back to back.

-“Why didn’t you tell me?!” “Says the guy who was Spidey for how many years now?!” “This better not be your villain origin story!” “Two words. Daddy issues. But I’m still here, aren’t I?” “....touche.”

-MJ can still be involved of course, but maybe as their guy in the chair. Maybe she helps SHIELD by trying to contact other teenage heroes who are on the run/living on the streets. 

-But yeah, Pete gets a BF + new teammate, SHIELD academy happens and Harry briefly has a rivalry with Flash/Agent Venom bcz he’s lowkey salty abt how he treated Peter in the past before getting over it.

The end.

(Sorry if the structure of this is messy but his idea came to me after binge-reading Parksborn fics & binge-watching USM + MSM while high on caffeine.)

[a-mag-a-day]

I hope you know how utterly INSANE 158 makes me feel, really just these three last episodes of s4 do.

Like the whole NotSasha thing when she comes back?! I freaking held my breath and I wanted to punch Peter SO BAD. And Julia and Trevor? Daisy going back to the Hunt?!

And Gertrude dying... her trying to burn down the institute and then her FUCKING KNOWING IT WAS JONAH- truly the 16th fear of tma.

All of the obstacles of this episode felt like a season finale to a cartoon, how there was a lot of build up to pay off for with burning Gerry's page and all the way back in s2 when they simply sealed NotSasha in the walls... it's all so satisfying, and it's a vibe I really enjoy.

Okay and then not to fucking mention all the PANOPTICON SHIT like the Jonah thing had been spoilt to me but !!! I love a big dramatic villainous reveal. And Peter genuinely whining like a baby when Martin thwarts his plan... this whole episode really does feel like a cartoon and I LIVE for it.

And listening to this episode after 160... the last bit with Elias and Jon just feels extra slimy knowing he's poking and pushing Jon's buttons about Martin so he'll go and get a Lonely mark.

Anyway, this is PROBABLY my favorite episode in the series? But cannot WAIT for the next two to follow!

Truly a monolith of an episode

[piperslovebot]

What if Sean came back for Ellie in s6 instead of Emma?

Gonna put this under read more so I don’t offend anyone.

For starters, Sean wouldn't be in jail and expelled since Peter's whole thing was that he was trying to get Emma and tried to sabotage him. And Sean would continue school and his plans to run his own shop.

Sean and Ellie may have a rocky start in the beginning, with Ellie still being hurt over Sean leaving. Not to mention her crazy crush on Craig *eye roll*. But eventually they’d become friends and more civil.

Eventually Ellie may have a realization about how horrible she acted while infatuated with Craig and try to make things right, like with Manny for example. She wouldn’t date Jesse because her feelings for Sean are coming back. Then they’d get back together and try to make things work. Even losing their virginities together (though I don’t buy that they never had sex in s4 when living together).

As for the army thing, if he does do it, I think that Ellie would actually be supportive and help him train (like Owen and Anya). And they’d try and make a long distance relationship work, eventually get married, and have babies.

[manyfandomocs]

Hi I would like to know about your teen wolf characters (both the ones you are all about rn and the ones you want to work on) Tell me one important fact about each one and one fun fact please and thank you!

Yes yes absolutely as you wish

Avalon Ridley

Important: She's known about the supernatural aspect of Beacon Hills her whole life, cause she's always known she's a witch

Fun: She's been besties with Lydia since the second grade

Beckett Grove

Important: His birth parents didn't technically abandon him but he doesn't know that until (so far in my ideas) about s4

Fun: He was on the basketball team with Derek for like, half a season before he quit

Candace Monahan

Important: She's taken care of Gilead her whole life, but obviously it was more official when their parents died and they moved to Beacon Hills

Fun: She was a gymnast when she was younger

Caylin Hale

Important: When Peter came back and first saw her, he was planning on recruiting her for his pack

Fun: Her and Jackson have movie nights every week

Devin Parrish

Important: His parents are absent at best which is why he chooses to move to Beacon Hills with Jordan

Fun: He pretends to need Kira to tutor him to talk to her

Dylan Bradford

Important: Dylan's known about the supernatural since he was kid and saw a hunter shoot at a werewolf in the woods

Fun: He only started playing football cause he didn't make the lacrosse team and now that's why he actually has a lacrosse grudge

Ezra Brady

Important: Erica originally only was flirting with him to get to Scott

Fun: He only joined the lacrosse team cause Scott and Stiles were joining

Gilead Monahan

Important: He was the closest to his dad's best friend before his death

Fun: Gilead usually goes by Gil

Guinevere Bates

Important: She does ultimately remember who killed her uncle, which is what jumpstarted her banshee powers

Fun: She likes photography

Griffin Browning

Important: He's never been super dedicated to the hunting lifestyle the way his family wants

Fun: The only thing Griffin really likes about hunting is the traveling

Henrietta Atwood

Important: She's going after Scott because Peter asked her to, though around this time she has a huge crush on Peter that he is aware of and uses to manipulate her

Fun: Lydia and her had sleepovers every weekend in middle school

Julian Knights

Important: Despite the age difference, he really does see Chris as his brother and Kate as his sister

Fun: He does call Allison his niece which, while technically true, does kind of annoy her

Leon Hastings

Important: So far I'm thinking his mom chose to move to Beacon Hills on purpose, that with her mythology research she somehow found how much was going on in Beacon Hills

Fun: Jackson had a small crush on him

Serena Morgan

Important: Since I don't think it's been technically mention yet and just alluded to in her initial ask, she's a Siren. But I might change whether or not she already knows that

Fun: Isaac's dad does not like when she's over because she does not exactly hide her distaste for him

Vivian Bell

Important: Her name is on the dead pool which is how she really gets involved in everything

Fun: Mason is her neighbor

[angelhummel]

It seems the Gleeks/klainers like you who have been there from the beginning love season 5b and the newer crowd in last five years hate it. And I think it’s what they did to Blaine’s character in that arc.

He’d been such a high achiever, leader of glee club really, getting into Nyada and engaged and they made him into this dependent wreck who lied and smothered Kurt. I don’t like what they did to his character at all.

weeell of course you know that i'm gonna disagree with that whole last part bc that's not what they did at all

they clearly showed us blaine struggling with body image issues that were exacerbated by his mental health issues. he was never a perfect person who had it all together, even when he was leading show choirs and getting good grades and getting into elite performing schools. we see these issues as early as season two. being oblivious to kurt's obvious feelings, overstepping with people like burt when he asked him to talk to kurt about sex, being unsure of himself - with his sexuality, not understanding people's intentions with him, not sure if he could even be a good boyfriend himself. He was kind of always a "wreck" and it's funny that that used to be what people hated about him and now people seem to see it as a reason to love him all the more

And like. Idk I think he had a dark point in s5 where he was handling things wrong and not communicating or coping like he should've been. I don't think he was 100% leaning on Kurt for support or smothering him. We actually get to see them doing their own things in those few episodes, like Blaine with June and Kurt with Peter Pan. They still support each other when they're off doing their own thing, but say that a success for one of them is a success for both of them bc they're partners who root for each other and know how to cheer the other one on

But even before that I mean, Blaine just went through a huge life change in graduating high school and moving from Lima to New York. That's no small feat. Everything's different, school is stressful, Kurt gets put in the damn hospital. Things are chaotic, and different, and scary. And we see all the NY characters coping with their new circumstances at different points in time. Sam, Santana, Mercedes, Rachel, Kurt - they all have different points of doubt, of feeling like they don't belong or not knowing what direction to go in. Blaine was far from the only one floundering, and it's unrealistic to expect any of them to be 100% sure of themselves and their lives at any point in time, but especially in s4-5

And I appreciate your ask and how you phrased it, with the dichotomy between original fans and newer fans. Because to me that also reads as the divide between older fans and younger fans. As in like, people who were teenagers or older who watched the show when it aired, and the teens or young adults who have just gotten into the show in the last few years*. Because those viewing experiences are bound to be different

I've had around a decade to watch and rewatch Glee, to process everything in it, and for my thoughts and opinions to morph and mature. Not to mention a decade of brain development and personal growth and life experience that would shape how I view a teen show like this. I didn't start watching Degrassi or PLL until relatively recently, and I know my thoughts on those shows now aren't the same as they would've been if I was watching them when they originally aired, either as a kid, teen, or even young adult

Obviously I'm not saying age = wisdom but when it comes to something like media analysis I do think that more life experience gives you more perspective and helps you understand things like this a little differently. I mean my blog is just shy of being 5 years old and I know there are things I said in 2018 that I don't agree with anymore. You just process things differently and you're gonna have changing opinions the older you get, that's just how it is

all this to say i think you mischaracterized blaine and did his s5b self an injustice lol. but that's just my opinion. i'd like to hear from some older/younger/newer/older fans and see if this is a common pattern

*im sure there are plenty of people who watched the show when it aired and were way too young for it, and grown adults who are still getting into it today. this statement was just a generalization and not meant to speak for everyone in the fandom

[aemiron-main]

the repeating names are going to make me lose my mind

AUGHDHDHHHHV THIS IS ALL MAKING ME INSANE. THERES SO MUCH HERE OMG SO!! Let’s go through this because there’s SO many repeating names.

Extended List of Repeating Names

Alice

Current Alice list:

Alice Gilbert

Alice Creel (Victor’s daughter)

Alice Creel (Victor’s wife in the Edward timeline)

Henry

Current Henry list:

Henry (the hunter)

Henry Creel

Chrissy

Something that’s really gnawing at me with all of the Chrissy stuff is how similar early versions of Chrissy’s hair were to Karen’s hair and how similar Chirssy’s final ponytail style is to Alice’s hair. I’m staring directly at the whole “Karen is Daughter-Virginia from the Edward timeline,” thing and how much the Cunningham family parallels both the Creels and the Wheelers. And like you said, the Creels’ car is an oldsmobile.

Current Chrissy list:

Chrissy Carpenter

Chrissy Cunningham

Pete/Peter

Current Peter list:

Pete Freeling

Petey McHew

Peter Owens

Peter that Brenner mentions on the intercom

Peter Ballard

Peter Bingham

(Also staring at the fact that Peter Pan is on the S4 board)

Jack

We’ve also got Sheriff Jack Kaulfield, who's mentioned in the Indianapolis Gazette article about the Creel murders:

Max also has an Uncle Jack:

Current Jack list:

Col. Jack Sullivan

Jack mentioned by Jason

Max’s Uncle Jack

Sheriff Jack Kaulfield

Patrick

They also re-used the name “Patrick.”

We have the Patrick from S4.

But then there’s also this Patrick from S1.

Current Patrick list:

Patrick the Lab Guy from S1

Patrick McKinney

Rick

I’m also staring at “Rick Neary,” vs Reefer Rick and all of the Ricks on the video store computer vs Richard Brenner being mentioned in the S1 newspaper article about Will’s vanishing.

But even better, jumping back to that Patrick scene from S1, we also learn of a Mr Schaeffer in that scene- a RICK Schaeffer.

Current Rick list:

Rick Neary

Rick Schaeffer

Richard Brenner

Reefer Rick/Rick Lipton

Rick Alderman

Rick Conroy

Rick Joiner

Rick Kimsbrough

Rick Maher

Rick Matteson

Rick Maranjo

Rick Pratt

Rick Sanchez

Rick Tobler

Rick Zimmerman

Edward

Current Edward list:

Edward Munson

Edward Creel

Larry

The name Larry is also frequently re-used.

We have Larry the Lego construction guy from the S4 Surfer Boy Pizza scene with Will and Jonathan.

We have Larry Kline:

And we have Larry Brantley:

And we also have Larry Peacefield:

Current Larry list:

Larry the Lego construction guy

Larry Kline

Larry Brantley

Director Larry Peacefield of the State of Indiana Crime Laboratory

Brantley and Bradley

And then there’s the whole Brantley vs Bradley thing that I talked about in this post.

Max’s mom’s boss is also named Mr Bradley:

And we've also got Bradley's Big Buy:

And Philip Bradley from the Weekly Watcher article about the Creel murders (see the Philip section for his screenshot bc I ran out of image room)

Currently Bradley list:

Mr Bradley (Susan’s boss)

Bradley’s Big Buy

Philip Bradley

Something else that caught my eye is that during the Mr Bradley conversation, Max talks about “letters,” and then when Robin says Bradley instead of Brantley, she talks about “words and letters.” (Max's "letters" line happens RIGHT after the Mr Bradley line)

Philip/Phil

Phil/Philip are also names that get re-used.

We have Phil Larson, who complained about stolen garden gnomes:

We have Chrissy’s dad, Phillip Cunningham:

We have Philip Bradley, the District Attorney mentioned in the Weekly Watcher article about the Creel murders:

We also have St Philip’s Catholic Church in the Indianapolis Gazette article about the Creel murders:

And honourable mention for Phyllis the Lunch Lady:

Current Philip/Phil list:

Phil Larson

Phillip Cunningham

Philip Bradley (district attorney mentioned in the Weekly Watcher)

St Philip’s Catholic Church

Phyllis the Lunch Lady

Jen/Jennifer

Current Jen/Jennifer list:

Jennifer Hayes

Jen Woo (the girl with Scott)

Charles

Current Charles list:

Charles the Weatherman, mentioned on the TV in S4

Pastor Charles (the pastor at Will's funeral)

Charles Sinclair

Becky

We've got Becky Ives:

And we've also got this Becky mentioned by Nancy to Steve:

Current Becky list:

Becky Ives

Becky (Girl mentioned by Nancy to Steve)

Diane

We've got Hopper's ex-wife, Diane:

And we've got this Diane on the TV in S3:

Current Diane list:

Diane from the TV

Diane (Hopper’s ex wife)

Sam

We've got Sam Owens. And we've got this Sam on the TV in S3:

Current Sam list:

Sam Owens

Sam on the TV in S3

John

We’ve got Deputy John Snow mentioned in the Indianapolis Gazette:

And we’ve got this John, mentioned by Larry Kline:

Current John list:

Deputy John Snow

John (mentioned by Larry Kline)

Lauren/Laurie

Current Laurie/Laura list:

Laura Cunningham (Chrissy's mom)

Laurie (mentioned by Nancy to Steve alongside Becky)

George

Current George list:

George Burness, who supposedly told Officer Callahan that he jumped off the cliff at the quarry and survived

George Smith, one of the early casting names for one of the characters for ST stage production before The First Shadow was officially announced

Eleanor

Current Eleanor list:

Eleanor Gillespie

Eleanor (El’s fake name)

Owl Imagery

AND OH MY GOD YES THERE’S SO MUCH OWL IMAGERY WITH HENRY/VECNA!!

We have the owl hooting when Will is possessed (no subtitle for this one but if you watch the scene, you can hear it clearly)

And the owl chess piece with Henry in the lab

And there’s the owl hooting when Max is running away from Vecna in the graveyard

And I’m sure there’s more that I’m forgetting right now.

And this might be a stretch but there’s something rattling in my brain about Eleanor Gillespie vs Alice Gilbert and the “G,” last names when thinking about the possibility of an Eleanor Creel (which, if El is actually a Creel, she’s likely Edward’s daughter, which would mean that Mother-Alice would be El’s grandmother, so I’m Staring at Alice Glibert).

Four Years

And the four years thing is definitely rattling something for me because two years is something that comes up CONSTANTLY in timeline analysis (Victor is two years younger in Edward’s timeline, Eddie Munson’s missing poster is off by two years, the Creels moved to Hawkins two years earlier in Edward’s timeline, the Creels lived in Hawkins for two years in Edward’s timeline etc etc). I haven’t seen a ton about four years specifically, but it’s gotta tie in somehow, because four years DOES pop up quite often.

And focusing on four years specifically and the fact that four years from the garage scene takes us to 1979, and that Hopper’s been back in Hawkins for four years and that it’s been four years since the elden tree campaign, and Eleanor Gillespie getting her head attacked during those four years and the massacre happening in 1979 and GOD WHAT IS GOING ON THERE’s DEFINITELY SOMETHING HERE!!!

It’s really interesting to me that Eleanor Gillespie got her head attacked during those four years, beginning in 1979, because shouldn’t that be the end of when El got her head attacked by 001, considering that she sent him to superhell? Unless, of course Brenner was the one attacking her mind. Staring at all of the weird, absolutely constant, Vecna-Brenner parallels… god.. what is going on here.

so @aemiron-main's recent post pointing out Hopper mentioning some girl named Alice got me thinking how it's strange how many minor randos mentioned have names that get reused later on the show.

definitely weird that Alice and Henry both get recycled. those are the big ones, but there are more.

not going anywhere with this, but fyi I think this is Henry. I don't know if it's the same Henry who went missing, but seems likely.

whoever Bev Mooney is, we have another BevMo in the mix - the news anchor who reports Chrissy's murder is named Beverly Moss.

and speaking of Chrissy:

Chrissy Carpenter is awfully similar to Chrissy Cunningham.

also the Creel family's car is an Oldsmobile

"give me those names again" LOL okay: we've got little Petey McHugh / Peter Bingham / Peter Ballard / Lab Peter (I've lost track of the various Peters of petergate), Reefer Rick, Lt. Colonel Jack Sullivan, and... whoever this Jack is:

a flayed Hawkins High student, presumably.

I was calling this a coincidence until I got literally here in the post realized that all of these are mentioned by/to/in connection with Hopper, and are all people introduced in Season 4.

the only s4 exception I've thought of so far is

btw I swear didn't somebody say something about Henry and owls once? "attacking heads"... "four years" being mentioned yet again in the first episode (when the kids are leaving Mike's garage)... '79-'83... I feel like I'm seeing something out the corner of my eye here. Eleanor Creel I'm rooting for you

that's all I've got off the top of my head, if you can think of more please jump in, I would love to see if there's a pattern here that holds up??

[erikiara80]

Stranger Things- Fringe parallels (spoiler on Fringe)

(Still working on this theory, so I edited some parts)

IF this theory is correct, it could be a spoiler on some of the biggest plot twists in S5.

Let's begin.

I'm analyzing every screenshot of the Nina Project scenes, reading theories on different timelines, loop theories. Then I remembered the name Peter.

Henry is Peter Ballard-the orderly. Sam Owens' son, Peter. So, Henry is Peter? And given the huge parallels with Will, Will is Peter too? The key of everything?

The parallels between Stranger Things and Fringe are becoming more and more clear. And it makes me even more curious to know: Why Will? We've seen the Henry-El parallels. Papa. Telekinesis. Telepathy. Now gates. So, if Will is also like Henry and Henry can manipulate time...

My theory is that the story could be a mix of Fringe, Back to the future, The Talisman and The Dark Tower.

Here I'm going to focus on Fringe

Like I said, there are many parallels. Eleven and Olivia Dunham, especially in S4. All the mentions of Peter. The glitching in the Rainbow Room.

Maybe, when Brenner started to use Henry, he learned that he didn't just have telekinesis, he could manipulate time, even see possible futures or threats. Then the massacre... the UD... the gates and the apocalypse. Thank you, Brenner.

How old Peter was when he died in the Prime World?

Seven.

When he died, his dad went to Alt Earth and kidnapped the alterante version of his son. And the crossover between worlds caused devastating consequences in Alt Earth. Henry ending up in the UD is causing the end of the world.

El is like Olivia

There have been El-Olivia parallels throughout the whole show.

But in S4 everything became more obvious, because of all that glitching in El's memories that we've never seen before. And because S4 introduced Henry/Peter, who could very well represent the Peter Bishop of Stranger Things. But with powers. His not just his existence the problem, but what he's doing.

About the glithing. That's a very important moment.

Imo, El was remembering her past, but with the glitching WE, the audience, were seeing for the first time different timelines simultaneously*. There are different Henries, the kids' position and even age change. In one shot their bones are broken, in another shot they are not. Many timelines. But it doesn't matter how many differences there are. The ending never changes. The story always ends in tragedy.

The beginning of the flashback/memory, El seeing the same moment in the Rainbow Room over and over, it's the biggest clue about the plot twist of the story: it's a loop, and not actual parallel worlds you can visit (so really BTTF + Fringe + The Dark Tower)

So, the parallels with Fringe are there, but of course it's not the same story.

*I said it's the first time that we see different timelines simultaneosly, thanks to the glitching. But we've actually been seeing them, at least two of them, from episode one, from the scene of Will's kidnapping. In fact, there's the shot where he has the shotgun, and the other where shotgun is still in the shed. Then, there are articles where Brenner's name is Richard, others where the name is Martin. It's always been there, but we needed S4 to start putting the pieces together. So far it's been subtle.

Peter in Fringe and Stranger Things

Fringe. The main character, Peter, shouldn't exist in the Prime World because Prime World Peter died when he was a child. But his father Walter went to the Alt World and kidnapped Alt Peter, and since then, the gate Walter opened has caused devastating consequences for that world that risks to collapse.

ST. Henry and Will were both kidnapped. And they both ended up in a different world. Also, it seems that their very existence can change everything. Henry can destroy the world. Will can save it.

Fringe. The advanced substance Alt World uses to quarantine the regions devastated by anomalies. Amber.

ST. In S3 we see the green goo, which is connected to the Russians and the gate.

Green goo could also be a reference to the game Fortnite.

The story: A mysterious island that holds the Origin of the universe itself is being abused by a mysterious organisation. A mysterious figure emerges from an escape pod housed in the remnants of a meteor in the crater of the island. From there on, everything slowly unfolds into chaos.

Interesting.

Fringe. The only solution they found in Fringe to save the Alt Universe? They erased Peter so everybody forgot about him. But slowly, people who loved him started to remember him.

ST. Maybe this is how Henry's story ends. Henry could be the Peter of ST that must die to save the world. Or it's Will who's being erased, or realises Henry needs him, so he thinks he has to sacrifice himself and disappear to save the world. They already hinted at something like that. In S2 Joyce asked Owens what would happen when he doesn't remember anything. When her boy is gone. Plus, the video posted on the ST account on IG in 2017, where Will disappears from the S1 photo, just like Marty Mcfly.

There are many options.

Look, more references to Peter. This time, there are also a key and number twelve.

And twelve is associated to Will

Other clues about different timelines.

In the first article in S1, that's actually Terry and El story, not really Joyce and Will. He was an unwitting victim, not a subject of the government program. Ok, maybe they forced the journalist to rewrite the article. But could still be a hint. In S1, Brenner is named Richard in the articles Hop reads. And in S4, in the articles about the massacre at the Creel House, Henry becomes Edward, Alice is the mother and Virginia the daughter... Little differences. But same story.

Also, what Joyce tells Brenner. That he took her boy away from him. Yes, kinda. But not really. It's very ambiguous. But maybe, in another timeline. Another time the story repeated itself, but differently...

Mr Clarke talks about the multiverse in S1. Infinite versions of our world. Only a bit different. But maybe the twist is Time. The story that keeps repeating itself because in the end the kids lose but Henry doesn't completely win.

Another interesting thing is the poster of the movie Sixteen candles we see at Family Video. The story is about people forgetting about the birthday of the protagonist.

And look at the main character. So we see the poster in S3 but not in S4. But in S4 we got her to remind us of that movie.

I'm going crazy.

Birthdaygate is even crazier that we thought, imo. Maybe something risks to erase Will. Or maybe in another timeline his birthday is in May. And we saw that timeline. But this time, even the GA noticed the date on the tape and said the writers forgot Will's birthday.

I also need to talk about the UD, of course. The Talisman (spoiler: there are parallel world there too, with copies of the original characters) the possible meaning of the rose as a reference to The Dark Tower. There's so much to talk about!

MORE CONNECTIONS BETWEEN ST AND FRINGE

EDIT: Thank you adipishingsystem. I didn't remember that in Fringe, ep 1x17, Walter is watching a video recording of the testing done with Cortexiphan (in 1982). Young Olivia is in a room which she's burned completely with her mind...

William Bell (the other doctor, played by Leonard Nemoy), "Is the incident contained?"

Assistant, "Yes, Dr. Bell."

Bell, "How bad?"

Assistant, "Bad."

Bell, "Casualties?"

Assistant, "Not sure yet. We can't locate Brenner."

I mean!

And in S2 of ST,  Joyce is discussing getting professional help for Will with Hopper. She says: "Well, there's that guy in Boston that's supposed to be..." But Hopper cuts her off before she can finish. Was she talking about... Walter? Or Bell? Omg? They really did it.

Lol, and there is MORE! I keep finding things... Working on another analysis!

[swtsuna]

STRANGER THINGS 5: THEORIES

These theories envolves around Will, Max and Eddie. (I know what is the first stage of grief, thank you very much). Take your time.

Also, this contains spoilers of Stranger Things VOL. 2. If you haven’t watched and don’t want to be aware of what happens, I advice you to stop here.

As we all know, there will be a timeskip from S4-VOL2 to S5. Based on this account (and I’ve seen in other places around Twitter) S5 will take place on 1988, making that a two years timeskip!

If in one week a lot can happen in Hawkins, let alone two years. Based on that, let me start the theories (made by this unhealthy mind of mine).

Max

Our beautiful Kate Bush enthuasiast ended season four in a hospital bed. She died for over a minute but Eleven made her heart beat again. That was really lovely if not for the fact that while in her mind, El couldn’t see a thing. Max is in coma, brain-dead.

On that scene we saw Lucas reading “The Talisman”, book written in 1984 by Stephen King and Peter Straub. Let’s see the plot, shall we?

“Jack Sawyer, twelve years old, sets out from Arcadia Beach, New Hampshire, in a bid to save his mother Lily, who is dying from cancer, by finding a crystal called "the Talisman". Jack's journey takes him simultaneously through the American heartland and "the Territories", a strange fantasy land that is set in a universe parallel to that of Jack's United States. Individuals in the Territories have "twinners", or parallel individuals, in our world. Twinners' births, deaths, and (it is intimated) other major life events are usually paralleled. Twinners can also "flip" or migrate to the other world but only share the body of their alternate universe's analogue.”

Tell me this isn’t similar to what’s happening in our beloved fictional city, Hawkins. I dare you. Do you really think I was finished? There’s more.

“In rare instances (such as Jack's), a person may die in one world but not the other, making the survivor "single-natured", with the ability to switch back and forth, body and mind, between the two worlds.”

The “earthquake” in Hawkins happened when Max was “dead”. Vecna was still in her mind and that’s why I believe she is not dead. Remember season one? When Eleven saw Barb dead? El can see dead people. Max is alive, but she is still trapped to Vecna. And as we know, Vecna can manipulate scenarios, so maybe he did that so Eleven wouldn’t know where she was.

And of course, she can’t switch back and forth with her mind and mostly body. But in two years? There’s likely a chance to her bones be back on the road (not literally lmao)

Therefore, there is a chance to, fully, save Max. Hinting the book and making some parallels: to save our favorite red-haired, someone will have to go to Upside Down and search the “Talisman”. I just don’t know what would be this Talisman. And since Lucas was the one reading... (Lumax endgame, they are my parents I can prove.) 

ANOTHER MAX THEORY:

This is Raven Queen, Goddess of Death, from D&D. 

“The Raven Queen is trapped by her fascination with the past. She sits in her fortress, amidst all the memories of the world, looking at the ones that please her most as though they were glittering jewels. Many great wizards have attempted to understand her motives, but like a raven she has always remained cryptic, keeping her cache of secrets just out of their reach.” —  Alustriel Silverhand

“The whole existence of the Raven Queen was focused on collecting memories and strong emotions, typically associated with loss and tragedy.” (click here to see more).

Technically, it’s impossible to Max be Raven Queen (or sorta), since she’s almost as old as Vecna (in D&D world), but I see some similiarities between them, mostly on the “memories” part. Vecna is also her enemy (lmao who isnt) since he wants her power so he can deal, more properly, with the Realm of Death.

She was never mentioned in Stranger Things so this is basically bullshit but that would be hot because Raven Queen is hot.

Eddie

As I said before: yes I know what is the first stage of grief. I will never accept what the Suffer Brothers did to us. They can run away with US Government but not with small-town people? That sounds weak to me, hallowed be Vecna’s name doing the job for us. Yep, hunt the freak (Hawkins people).

Anyways, let me stop pushing my personal agenda and let’s go with the theory.

Did I say Raven Queen wasn’t mentioned in Stranger Things? Well, at least this character was:

But Vecna lives.

Kas is a vampire knight, known as Vecna’s right hand. Kas was a valiant warrior and it was said that he could enter a battlefield at the most complete disadvantage and still emerge, not only victorious, but also without a single dent in his armor. This skill in battle attracted the attention of none other than Vecna, who invited him to be their general. Kas' years of loyalty and efficiency led Vecna to present him with a mighty sword, which would become known as the Sword of Kas (yes, one of the most famous artifacts in D&D). 

Kas and Vecna. (two bros chillin in a hot tub five feet apart cuz theyre not gay lmao i miss vine)

On top of that, there are a lot of explanations on how Kas became vampire, but the 3rd and 4th are most likely on ST universe:

1. Nerull & Battle of Thousand Eyes 

During the Battle of Thousand Eyes, Nerull (God of Death) whispered to Kas to betray his master in exchange for a divine favor. Kas, with his lust for power, accepted and attacked Vecna with the sword he had been gifted from his master. That cost Vecna his left hand and one of his eyes (got that eddie "left eye" scene?)

Nerull nevertheless decided to grant Kas a minor favor: his soul was given strength and speed, but accompanied by an insatiable thirst for blood, which would be known as the Vampiric Curse.

2. Sword of Kas 

The sword itself whispered to Kas, convincing him to slay his master and usurp his power. The battle destroyed Vecna's Rotting Tower, and cost his left hand and eye. Kas himself was flung across the multiverse to Vecna's Citadel Cavitius on the Plane of Ash. The time he spent so close to the Negative Energy Plane changed him into a vampire.

3. The Silver Mask of Kas

Kas became a vampire with the help of Vecna and through a ritual involving The Silver Mask of Kas. Menadora Zarovan (Vistani fortune teller who knows a lot about Vecna and Kas), claims that any other stories regarding the origin of his vampirism are lies spread by The Cult of Vecna.

4. Bats.

Bats? Vampire? Hello, there’s a connection! I would say it’s hard to believe (or happen) that the bats-bite turned him into vampire but Bram Stoker would be hella mad at me. And, literally, everything is possible.

Bats, in the Upside Down, can’t kill, as I saw people say. And I’ve seen people have a theory that Eddie actually fainted (since he lost much blood) and found somewhere safe to hide (jesus arms lmao im joking). That’s why his body wasn’t brought up to Hawkins. And, I mean, since he is a wanted by police, hated by his city who see him as a murderer, wouldn’t be easy to just bring his body back and “finish” that?

Also, see that:

“Presumed dead”. Not dead. Presumed. Okay, I might be surviving on crumbs BUT LISTEN: Dustin couldn’t walk properly but what about the others? Nancy, Steve and Robin could’ve brought is body back to Hawkins. And really, that two-days timejump was ridiculous to say at least.

So, they saw Eddie’s body lying there and did nothing? Knowing it would bring “peace” to Hawkins (since he is wanted even tho by something he didnt do)? They saw his body and were like lmaooooo jokes on you metalhead freak how can you be an ozzy fan and die by bats lmao POSER

Vecna is coming back, and stronger than he ever was. And he’s absolutely coming back with an army. Final season? Epic fight between the most powerful people on that show? They need to gather strenght and our 001 needs his right arm on battle. And what is the better place to search if not the Upside Down?

Still, I think if Eddie becomes Kas, would be by a brainwashing made by Vecna, but Dustin would “free” him. I even have the script:

“You said ‘Never change, Henderson’, but you did”. I can see myself crying again. I just want some like void!stiles on Teen Wolf S3. That was hot.

I don’t see Eddie/Kas with a sword, I’d rather see a guitar (LMAO it suits him better). And then, who knows, he can play “The Final Countdown” since people hyped that song on TikTok. 

Apparently, “When It’s Cold I’d Like to Die”, song that played during Eddie death scene, is the same song that played when Eleven was trapped in the Upside Down on Season 1.

Will

Last but certainly not least: William Byers. You would’ve loved to meet Eddie, two of the greatest brains in D&D campaigns. But I’m not here for that.

Everything started with Will, so shall everything end with him.

I personally would love to see him becoming the “traitor”/villain along with Vecna. I hate seeing gay people suffer, I like seeing them MAKING OTHERS SUFFER!!! YAYYYYYY!!

He is connected to the Upside Down, to Mind Flayer, to Vecna and it all makes me remind of The Serpent

(you nicknamed my baby after the loch ness monster?????? got that? twilight reference? vampire? bats? eddie- ok.)

“The Serpent is a mysterious and powerful entity associated with the lich-god Vecna, who whispered to him the secrets of power and lichdom. It is believed by some to be a deity of overwhelming other, by others the force of magic itself with a will of its own, and by some a fiction of Vecna's madness.”

"An entity known only as the Serpent speaks directly to Vecna. Others—daring to call themselves wizards, magicians, and sorcerers—manipulate the tiniest aspects of the Serpent and call it magic. But Vecna speaks to the Serpent, and the Serpent speaks back."— Vecna Reborn (1998), p.4

We all know he will be the main character on that last season and that he is connected to Vecna

“He’s a sensitive kid” — Joyce Byers & Victor Creel talking about their respective children

In my opinion, he will be possessed by Vecna (if he can EVEN MORE) somehow during season 5, I’m not sure if Vecna’s physical body “died”/”ended” when Robin, Nancy and Steve were shooting at him and setting in on fire but it would be either him or Max, to be his vessel.

And I rather believe it’s Will, because as I said: Everything started with Will, so shall everything end with him.

(note: lmao thats what happens when a tv show kills off one of your comfort characters and favorite white boy of the month. dont be like me kiddos, sleep well and drink water. also that kas part applies to the 3 of them if you analyze i dont know why i wrote that lmao lemme know your theories)

[cryptid-crawly]

magnus archives au where instead of peter lukas in s4 its simon fairchild. also au where one of the srvhives crew takes the place of helen richardsonand becomes the distortian at the same time in canon. (apologies if i misunderstood the way this works lol) :)

Okay first, let’s do Peter swaps with Simon:

Simon lost a bet with Elias and that’s why he has to take over the institute. He does *not* want to. This stuff is super boring.

Which is why, when he makes Martin his assistant, Martin basically gets full control of the institute as the new boss. Everyone gets raises and better life insurance that includes clauses for if you’ve been eaten by the sky, etc.

Simon doesn’t give two fucks about a new fear so he kinda just slaps the files down on Martin’s desk and is done with it. Since Martin isn’t being pushed into the lonely, he shares this info with Jon, who awkwardly suggests they should review it over at this nice cafe he found. (Supernatural coffee date!)

Simon still causes problems ofc but he’s not interested in whatever stupid agenda Elias has. He buys a new building for the institute that’s a skyscraper and forces everyone to work on the top floor. It has one of those pools that’s got a clear glass bottom that extends past the building. Also mandatory team building exercises that are skydiving.

Elias is going mad trying to manipulate Peter into doing something that will force Jon to confront him. Peter is away at sea and definitely ignoring Elias’s calls.

Bonus: turns out the skyscraper thing is convenient because when other entities/avatars attack Helen likes making doors that lead to the outside. Of the 70th floor.

Someone else becomes The Distortion:

Michael took Helen still, but Tim was being sus about Jon and started looking into the whole “Michael” thing. This ended with him being eaten by a yellow door sometime late Season 2.

Tim hasn’t come into work for a few weeks. Jon thinks maybe he quit or maybe he’s plotting to murder them all. Martin is worried until he goes into the tunnels to try and help Jon run away from the Not-Them, is eaten by a door, and finds Tim again! Yay Tim’s alive!

Meanwhile Elias is acting like he knows what’s going on but in fact he is very confused. Where is Tim? How has he been avoiding work without getting sick? Did he manage to quit? Was he eaten by a clown doll? He would’ve pieced it together after Martin sobs saying he found Tim in the hallways but they didn’t escape together except Jon convinced Martin to keep quiet. He has his suspicions. Also Elias doesn’t care that much.

Tim becomes the Distortion because he’s so mad that *someone else* gets to kill Jon. Really it’s just exchanging one homicidal persona for another, but Tim isn’t planning on killing Jon immediately so it works out.

Tim returns to work at the archives. No one mentions his time away. Elias is really confused but whenever he asks Tim just gaslights him and is all “what time away? Are you sure you’re okay boss?”

Bonus: Elias finally figures it out when Tim returns with Martin after the whole circus fiasco. Tim: hello boss Elias: aren’t you supposed to be dead

[erikiara80]

Yep, this. Although at the beginning of S2 (2x02- El scene) it looks like the UD is stuck on Nov 13, and in the ending scene with the Mind Flayer in 2x09, the UD version of the school has the decorations of the snow ball (so it's December 84) I'm sure that Nov 6th is extremely important. The Duffers said that the UD being stuck on that day is the key plot point of the whole last season!

And they made a whole scene to reveal that. They know about the other two scenes so there must be a reason. I'm working on my analysis on the huge Stranger Things - Fringe parallels, and Henry -Will - Peter Bishop parallels (so many mentions of the name Peter in S4! Henry's orderly name was Peter, Owens' son, Peter, the Peter at the shop where they buy guns)

Also, Nina is one of the main characters in Fringe. El is so similar to Olivia (they both use and isolation tank) In Fringe, S1, Walter and Bell, during their experiments on kids in 1982, mention a Brenner, and in S2 of ST Joyce talks about wanting professional help for Will and mentions a doctor in Boston (probably Walter Bishop, lol)

So yeah, Back to the future, Fringe, The Dark Tower... Can't wait to see what all this means

Thinking thoughts...

[wibble-wobbegong]

Dear tumblr user wibble-wobbegong,

I went to bed immediately after reading your petergate analysis. My mind was frothing. My blood was boiling. I thrashed around while I slept, disturbing my usual 4 hour schedule, and when I arose, the only thought I had in my head was OWENS.

Now after sitting upright staring into the ceiling for a while I had a couple more thoughts, so I wrote them down, which resulted in "peber bad to father??" buried deep in my notes app. I have interpreted this to be about the "too much salt, Peter! Father's kidneys!" line (in reference to Peter Bingham) which 4 AM me thought was foreshadowing/hinting at their trauma. May I have your take on Peter & Owens father-son relationship? Do you think that line was hinting at a possibly abusive past? Is that why Owens never mentioned Peter?

Honestly, I'm just trying to make sense of whatever the hell I was thinking last night. Your analysis left me with a lot of good questions, and I just don't have the strength (finals!! gag me with a spoon) to make sense of my own theories.

-- Nonnie

anon i spent a solid five minutes laughing at that intro oh my GOD. i’ve done the exact same things so many times

so, owens’ and peter’s dynamic is a really interesting one!! you’re definitely onto something with the “too much salt, Peter!” possibly referring to peter’s feelings/actions against owens

from what i can tell, there are three key characteristics of owens that make him different from the other parents we’ve seen;

1. he’s dedicated to science and experimentation

2. he does so with the intention of helping others and is generally against harm being done to children. his highest priority in every season is about saving people, hence refusing to let them kill will and being somewhat manipulative to el because he believed she could save hawkins if her powers were returned

3. he’s too passive to actually prevent harm from being done to children, but he’ll never do it himself. he let the doctor in s2 continue to hurt will but he listened when hopper told them to stop (the doctor only follows orders from owens, so owens’ listening to hop led to the doctor stopping). owens returns el to her abuser without informing her of his presence beforehand and lets brenner push her and be creepy, but he’s frustrated with brenner the whole time and makes it clear he doesn’t want hatm to come to el.

generally, i think owens’ moral compass can be summarized by his little monologue to brenner

he’ll compromise his principals, his life, his family’s life, if he sees a way to save people. he’ll allow bad things to happen for the greater good. that doesn’t mean he wants those bad things to happen and he doesn’t necessarily want to do them, but he thinks they’re necessary for progress/the sake of people’s lives.

owens isn’t a very good person, but he’s not bad either. when i say he’s neutral in a way no other character truly is, i mean it in the sense that he does both good and bad for the sake of people’s lives. he hurt will to help save him and refused to let him die. he hurt el and gave her up to her abuser because he thought it would give el her powers and she could save hawkins (he also puts emphasis on her friends and family to make it more personal for her).

because of owens’ history with brenner and the fact that he worked at the lab prior to his introduction and his ties to the creel family, it suggests that he’s been involved with brenner’s work from the start. they work as partners in S4, so it doesn’t seem like a subordination dynamic. he replaces brenner at the lab.

before the lab starting heading down the path of MKUltra-esque experiments after capturing henry, it seems as though it started as a place dedicated to conversion therapy (if not, then an allegory to it). virginia wanted to send henry to brenner for some reason, and she seemed to hate him, but we don’t have much reason to believe she actually knew about henry’s powers. many have discussed virginia’s abuse of henry and how that possibly entailed sexual abuse related to bathtubs (i’d recommend looking at @/aemiron-main, @/hereos-byler and @/laozuspo for a deeper dive into the relationship between henry and virginia). if virginia were abusing him for her hatred of his powers, that part doesn’t really connect. abusers don’t often use logic, so of course it’s possible, but it seems much more likely she was doing so because he was “sensitive” and “quiet”, both of which we can associate with queerness through parallels to will.

basically, virginia most likely got in contact with brenner for conversion therapy.

i say all this because that also suggests owens was involved in conversion therapy at his own location; ruth, nevada. as a man of science as well as it being in the 50’s when homosexuality was popularly regarded as a disease backed by science as well as something that could be cured. it wouldn’t be much of a stretch to say owens was a conversion therapist. unlike brenner, he probably wouldn’t have gone to the same extremes of physical and sexual abuse. there was definitely some, but he does have his limits in what he thinks is okay to do to children for the sake of saving anyone, as we see in S4.

peter, being owens’ son, was probably aware of what his father was doing. this is where things get a little blurry for me, because i seriously doubt owens was experimenting on his own son but at the same time, with owens’ savior behavior, i don’t want to rule is off entirely. i don’t know for sure when owens figured out peter was gay, whether it was through his relationship with henry or if he had been displaying “queer” behavior earlier on, like will.

either one could lead to a hatred of his father. it wouldn’t be the same as any other relationship we’ve seen, because if owens hadn’t been experimenting on peter an an attempt to “save”him, peter could’ve resented him anyway for doing that to other people. if owens had been experimenting on peter, it likely would’ve been a mixture of psychological abuse and minimal physical and sexual abuse. owens gave lenience to the doctor in s2, allowing him to push will harder than necessary, but he also tries to draw the line when he thinks el is suffering too much (but he crumbles under brenner’s authority).

owens wears a lot of grids, suggesting that he himself doesn’t commit sexual assault but that he does create a space for others to do so. he’s the web for the spider. owens allows others to commit acts of violence. at the same time, if he were the highest authority figure at his location, he would’ve been able to call off things when they went too far like he tried to do with el. determining his exact limits is difficult because of how little we know about him, but they’re significantly lower than brenner’s.

peter’s relationship with his father, either way, is bad. it’s definitely possible peter tried to hurt owens, either to save those at the lab or out of his own hatred for owens (more likely the second one when we consider that the apocalypse could very well be based on peter’s own wishes). owens loved peter. his fucked up actions are based on wanting to save people.

in a way, owens seems to have grown from those days. he makes no comment on will or mike and he has the thing where he doesn’t question el when she corrects max’s gender. neither is really a confirmation, but can be interpreted that he no longer cares for conversion. it could be a result of peter’s death, seeing what his actions had driven his son to do. seeing that none of his experimentation stopped peter from loving henry, if he was being experimented on pre-henry.

owens doesn’t mention peter because the only people who would even know who peter is and are still alive are victor and henry. it’s part of why i have my suspicions about owens and the way he asks questions that lead to henry even when he shouldn’t have that knowledge. sometimes, it seems like he’s poking around looking for henry and he keeps finding leads but not answers. idk, owens and henry are a whole other thing

thanks for the ask!! hope that answers your question :)

[beepboop358]

Victor Creel Theories

(also includes ST movie DNA series: Star Wars)

Victor Creel is described as "a disturbed and intimidating man who is imprisoned in a psychiatric hospital for a gruesome murder in the 1950s." We know he will be institutionalized at Penthurst mental hospital, where Peter Ballard works, based on leaked on set pics.

There a few possibilities regarding his character:

He could be a former test subject with some kind of powers and a connection to the upside down (which would also follow the even/odd season pattern of a main character being directly involved with the upside down creatures) I think it's highly likely that Victor Creel will be involved with the mystery/danger in Hawkins in some way, and have a connection to the upside down. He could also be disturbed on top of this, and he could be involved in Eleven's storyline this season.

That he is not a test subject and is ONLY mentally disturbed.

He may be related to one of the already established characters. Most likely Joyce, and maybe Terry but it's a stretch.

Before I go any further into that last possibility, I just want to preface that this idea of an "evil father/grandfather with powers" could be a purposeful Star Wars parallel. The Duffer brothers have already paralleled and used Star Wars references a few times in the show:

In Star Wars, Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father, and Palpatine is Rey's grandfather (aka the literal worst guy in the universe). A common theme in ST is abusive/bad fathers - that post here. Interesting...

Palpatine is also Anakin Skywalker's father, so Luke and Leia are both the grandkids of Palpatine as well as Rey is, but it's unclear if they are just force midichlorian related or actually dna related as well but I won't get into that here!

Luke and Rey are both force sensitive (have powers), so are Darth Vader and Palpatine; their descendants (kid/grandkid) have powers, and so do they (father/grandfather) The descendants use their powers for good, while the ancestors use their power for evil. Who has powers in ST? Eleven and Will - and they both already have this idea of abusive/bad/evil fathers: Will has an abusive father Lonnie, and Eleven has an abusive father figure Dr. Brenner "Papa".

So... Victor Creel being the evil/bad grandfather to either Eleven or Will and the evil/bad father to Joyce or Terry, would make a FULL Star Wars parallel to people who are morally good and have powers (Will and El - Luke and Rey), discovering they are the descendant of an evil male figure who also has powers (Victor Creel - Darth Vader and Palpatine)

If Victor Creel turns out to be the father of anyone in the show my bets are it's either Joyce Byers or maybeee Terry Ives.

If he was a test subject, its likely he went "crazy" with some of his powers and the government couldn't cover it up so they declare him mentally insane to get him committed, and he probably goes insane being locked away as well. Personally, I think he may be 001 or an early test subject, when they were still working out the kinks of the program, and I think he does have a big connection to the upside down.

The Duffer Brother's on s4: "In Hawkins a new horror is beginning to surface, something long buried, something that connects everything"....

Now let's get into the possibilities for Creel's storyline/who he could be related to (split into 3 parts).

Part 1: Creel could be Joyce's father

Based on Victor Creel's description as "disturbed" and that he is "in a psychiatric hospital", it could connect him to Joyce's bloodline.

There are several comments in the show hinting to this idea of mental instability in Joyce's family:

s1 ep.5: When Lonnie comes to visit in s1 after Will goes missing, Joyce says to Lonnie "No, don't look at me like that, like how everyone is looking at me, like I'm out of my damn mind" He responds saying "I think you need to consider the possibility that this is all in your head. Remember your Aunt Darlene?" Joyce quickly replies, "No, this is not that."

That conversation, although quick, is very telling. Lonnie is implying that Joyce had an aunt who was mentally unstable - and Joyce clearly knows about her aunt being unstable because she responds to his comment by saying what's she's experiencing is not that (the mental instability of her aunt)

s2 ep.2: Joyce says to Bob, "this is not a normal family", when he suggest moving out of Hawkins.

I used to think Joyce was always was referring to the whole 'my son got stuck in an alternate dimension with supernatural monsters and is now traumatized, and we were sworn to secrecy by the government' thing but maybe she is also referring to her biological family.

s1 ep.2: When they are searching for Will, one of the other police officers, says "Joyce is one step from the edge" and the other officer responds "She has been several steps for quite a while now".

If Joyce is related to Victor Creel biologically, and he did also happen to be a test subject, has powers, or has some other relation to the upside down, this could possibly have contributed to whatever kind of abilities Will has, because he would be a descendant of Creel. But Joyce does not seem to have any powers and neither does Jonathan. If they were related to Creel, it's odd that they both didn't get powers, but Will did. I've always thought Will was born with his powers, like El.

We know almost nothing about Joyce's past, it's never discussed in the slightest in the show, which I feel like is purposeful. We don't know Joyce's maiden name; she doesn't change it back after she and Lonnie divorce. Maybe the Duffers are saving Joyce's backstory for s4 (and possibly s5), like I think they are doing with Will and El's connection. Will, El, Hopper, and Joyce were pictured in a series of 4 tweets posted by the stranger writers, hinting to the main 4 storylines for season 4. My analyzation of this tweet here.

I think it's possible that Joyce's storyline this season could also have to do with her past- not just her searching for Hopper- but also more personal information about her. Perhaps we will see flashbacks of younger Joyce and maybe learn about her biological relatives.

Noah also said this would be the darkest season for Will, so this idea of being the grandkid of someone evil or disturbed could fit into that.

Part 2: Creel could be Terry's father/Eleven's grandfather

The only other person I could see potentially having a biological; relation to Victor Creel could be Terry Ives and Eleven, (because it would complete the Star Wars parallel mentioned earlier) but it's a stretch for several reasons, the main one being that Terry and Becky's father Bill Ives, died in a car crash (year unknown).

So for Victor Creel to be Terry's father that either has to be:

Her adoptive father OR

Her mother cheated and led Mr. Ives to believe Terry was his kid but her father is really Victor Creel, and Becky is actually Bill Ives son (which would explain why Becky has no powers)

Right of the bat it's interesting Terry's father's name is Bill. Bill is a nickname for William (Will Byers full name is William), and Billy's a nickname also for William... Hmmm....

Immediately after El is born, Terry is adamant that Brenner stole her child to use as a weapon to fight the commies BECAUSE SHE HAD SPECIAL ABILITIES - and she's completely right about everything. How does Terry know El had powers immediately after she was born? Because she knows she has developed some kind of special abilities from the experiments as well. When El goes to visit her mother in s2, THE LIGHTS FLICKER, just like they do when the upside down is near, but it's not Eleven controlling it. Her Aunt Becky says it's just the wiring, and Eleven responds: "IT'S MAMA. She wants to talk." And then we see Terry's NOSE BLEED, just like El's does when she uses her powers.

Quick side note about El's biological father is Andrew Rich: (It's revealed in the canon novel Suspicious Minds that Andrew Rich is El's father) He was a college student who got expelled from school due to protesting the Nixon address, making him eligible to be drafted in the Vietnam war, and he died in battle. Terry was involved in the Project MKUltra experiments at Hawkins National Laboratory in College, under the direction of Dr. Martin Brenner, but didn't know she was pregnant at the time. Andrew never even knew Terry was pregnant, meaning she was extremely early on in her pregancy at the time he was sent away, not even Terry was aware yet. It's also stated in this book that BRENNER HAD A HAND IN GETTING ANDREW EXPELLED SO HE COULD SEND ANDREW AWAY. The novel states that Brenner has Andrew drafted because he wants to SCARE Terry, to show her how much power he has over her life. There's definitely some history between Terry and Brenner that we don't know about yet.

If Victor Creel is in fact Joyce's father it's interesting that the powers seem to have skipped a generation with Joyce, and also one kid with the Byers, but if Victor Creel is Terry's father, no generations were skipped in passing down powers. ANYWAYS, this is all just theories and speculation since we have no actual concrete reasons to believe he will be related to Joyce or Terry.

Part 3: The possibility that Creel could be involved in Eleven's storyline this season does not rely on them being biologically related.

**One of the filming locations for this season is the Claremont House, which is RUMORED to be Creel's house and also "Vecna's lair" the new monster for s4 (unconfirmed) This is the house the Hawkins group goes into in the ST4 sneak peek, where they see the grandfather clock striking midnight. If that's true, there's a connection between Creel and the upside down and having powers, which could connect Creel to Eleven. The Duffers: "In Hawkins a new horror is beginning to surface, something long buried, something that connects everything". This thing "that connects everything", could be Creel's storyline (his possible connection to the lab/upside down/person in the show), because Creel's storyline also spans all the way back to the 1950's and before that, so there's our "long buried" part most likely.

Robert Englund recently revealed in *an interview* that his character Victor Creel gouges his eyes out, making him unable to see. Englund also mentions what it's like working with Millie Bobby Brown and talks about the first time her met her, he doesn't mention any other cast members in detail like he does Millie.

He's clearly working closely with Millie's character Eleven.

But why? I think Creel could be involved with Eleven getting her powers back, and her reliving her past. Once the government baddies realize El has no powers, they're gonna want them back. If Creel was in fact a test subject, maybe there is some kind of connection between them, Such as Eleven revisiting what happened to her in her past and how that could relate to her getting her powers back.

Another thought I had was that perhaps the gruesome murder he committed is somehow related to something that ends up impacting in Eleven's life.

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Whatever Victor Creel's storyline is, it will be an important one, and it will carry somewhat into s5, since he will be a returning character. He is not signed as a series regular, but as a recurring character, which means we don't really know to what capacity he will be in s5. It could be flashbacks mostly, or he could have just as big or small of a role.

Source: indie wire

That detail about eyes being gouged out reminds me of fear street 1666 when the townsmen who was sacrificed to the devil becomes possessed and gouges the kids eyes out. Leigh Janick, director of fear street, is married to Ross Duffer. They both direct and make horror/sci-fi themed series about kids in a small town set in the 80's, who fight supernatural evil with a heavy undertone of queer themes, that are even filmed in a lot of the same locations (the mall, the town streets, etc.) I'm not saying it's the same thing, it definitely won't be. But there's so many similarities between ST and Fear Street, I thought I would mention this as another.