#st4 theory

[stranger-theory]

thanks to thiiiiis post for reminding me, im gonna rant about gay people :)

When you genuinely think about the Pizza Place Talk through a metaphorical sense, its so fucking queer coded.

Mike is shown fruit on pizza. Mike reaches the conclusion that fruit on pizza is wrong and he is uncomfortable with it because "fruit on pizza is blasphemous" (this being a word used to describe something that disrespects anything holy or relating to god). Mike is told he needs to try it to actually form an opinion rather than immediately disliking something because it's not normally "okay" to like. Mike tries fruit on pizza. He finally agrees that fruit on pizza is okay, good, safe and the right choice for him.

I think what makes this scene even better is that Mike and El's talk about their relationship was immediately interrupted by this scene. I also think El being encouraging about this, even going as far as shoving the pizza in his mouth😭, is an indicator that she'll be part of Mikes self discovery journey. I really need ElMike to heal my soul, please and thank you Duffers.

[itswhatyougive]

Something that's been bothering me is a small detail in ST4 set design, specifically Eddie's trailer.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the only place I remember seeing prominently displayed laundry baskets full of dirty clothes, both in the Right Side Up and Upside Down versions of the trailer.

I keep thinking back to Eddie's pointed comment to Jason Carver in the very first episode of S4, about basketball being a game where you "toss balls into laundry baskets". They drove that line home even further by having Dustin repeat it back to Eddie at the cafeteria table.

It's giving me this nagging feeling that Jason and Eddie have more history than we're led to think.

Eddie said it with such bitterness and anger, loud enough that he wanted Jason to take the bait, which he did.

The latest chapters of Hellfire in ST Puzzle Tales also reinforce the fact that Eddie is very very touchy about basketball and the basketball team. He calls it "gross" and he doesn't even want to see Lucas wearing his basketball jacket. It seems oddly "personal", this chip on his shoulder about basketball and Jason.

Do they have some kind of shared history? Is it meant literally, do the laundry baskets have some kind of significance? The Upside Down version of the trailer is stuck in 1983, is it possible three years ago or more Jason used to come over there for some reason? Or is it a figurative thing?

Part of me thinks that new Eddie Munson book that's coming out will have something about Jason in it. Flight of Icarus is set in 1984, so possibly after whatever history he and Jason had. Eddie would be a senior (first time) at Hawkins High School and Jason would've been a sophomore.

[stevesbanana]

Stranger Things Incorrect Quotes:

Billy: “We are not gonna cry over a guy that doesn’t know what y=mx+b means”

Y/n: “Do you?”

Billy: “This isn’t about me.”

[byler-alarmist]

Yeah, if we ever see Hawkins high school ever again, i'm gonna need the principal to explain to me why the colors of the school are green and orange 💚🧡

What do you think is the significance, anon? I hadn't spent too much time thinking about it, to be honest. Green could be Byler endgame I guess because blue and yellow, but what's orange? Red and yellow? Dare I say.....Elmax 👀👀 lol j/k. Unless....?

I love the "freshmen love their tigers" thing. It was soooo unnecessary for them to include as a sign, and then they made sure to have all the tiger imagery around Will.

[bubblegumteeastuff]

Let's say that the idea of ​​reappearing is not very good for me, why? I don't know, but hey! here we are back!!

—BGTSTUFF* ˚ ✦

[miaisagirllover]

remeber that pre st4 theory that billy was vecna

yea that was crazy as hell like yall couldn’t accept he died💀

[bubblegumteeastuff]

A year since byler give us their second love fight, and one of THE best romantic moment of season four, and all that theory's about blue & yellow, besides to all the evidence make obvious all that we We already know from season two from the "crazy together" to Mike apologizing to Will three times in season three and obviously in season four the rink or mania fight, next to Will's painting in the van with Jonathan Realizing that Will is not talking about Eleven, he talks about him in what seems like the declaration of love of the season, and unfortunately season five will arrive very late because of the WGA and recently the actors' strike in Hollywood and Stranger Things 5 will be streaming in 2025...

The question for us is should I stay or should I go

current mood:

[myname1sca1]

When Finn Wolfhard's nervous lying tell (pursing his lips) shows in his acting

[sapphicslut777]

this scene in st1 when karen is saying to mike “i want you to feel like you can talk to me, you don’t have to hide anything from me” she had no idea about the el plot line at this point… she was letting him know it’s safe to talk to her

suspiciously like this scene from st4 when jonathan is hinting to will that he knows he’s gay and is comforting him and telling him he loves him no matter what and he’s “here to talk, now more than ever” ❤️❤️❤️

[stranger-theory]

"It's Been a Year, Mike"

Okay so like Joyce tells something along the lines of "I thought I lost you for eight months" to Hop when they talk again in s4, right? That's already enough proof that Byler are being dramatic when they say a year had gone by. HOWEVER☝️, after the day Hop "died", literally two months went by until the Byers actually left Hawkins. THATS SIX MONTHS. Mike and Will are so fucking dramatic and it shows. But I also wish to pose some meh theories off of this.

So the Duffers are obviously aware of their timeline, like no shit, but this does bring me back to all those theories about how time is weird or possibly being tampered with. I'm gonna throw some crazy accusations out there without much backing, but they're just possibilities, I'm aware they may very well not happen.

1. Vecna's messing with the time to make the "betrayal" feel worse. Maybe he got into their heads and made it genuinely feel like a year. He has a special connection with Will, and Mike was literally just in Hawkins, he could've.

2. They were actually referring to more than just the Byers move. Maybe by "year" they were talking about the general disconnect that'd been happening with them for a bit of time, starting before they even moved to california.

3. To show that it's not one sided. Will is being a dramatic gay about the whole thing because his feelings are hurt; usually when something hurts so much, you kinda throw out any actual reasoning or exaggerate events. We know Will is doing this because he's in love with Mike and has known him for literally ten years, I'd be upset if that guy ignored me, too. But Michael on the other hand..

[bubblegumteeastuff]

Is BYLER PROOF

Mike thinking he lost / he’s losing Will

[teambyler]

Mike was saying "I love you" to Will

Most people see Mike's monologue and think of it as "proof" that he and El are an endgame couple, but it's actually one of the strongest hints of a Byler conclusion.

Because Mike was saying "I love you" to Will.

Sounds crazy? Of course! He was speaking directly to El, after all. What the hell am I talking about?

Some have focused on contradictions and other issues with what Mike says, including listing El's superpowers instead of the full person she wants to be loved for being. Plus he had to do it (and was pushed by Will), or else El and their friends in Hawkins might have died. It does seem like El sensed something off in what he said, which would explain why she hardly talked to him afterward. But I actually disagree about Mike's "I love you" being a total lie. In the official script it's written that it had a positive effect on El (although the way it was ultimately shot and edited made it more ambiguous). (I got this screencap from a TikTok video):

And so, in the van, Will DID make Mike love El. Mike MIGHT have wondered whether Will was talking about himself too, but one thing he was convinced of was that that El loved him because "he's the heart." Feeling like she loved him for who he was made him love her. I think it's more accurate to say that, while Mike's monologue may have had issues, he DID feel something genuine... BUT the logic of events leads more toward a BYLER conclusion than away from one.

The problem for Mike and El is that Mike was saying "I love you" to the idea of El that WILL put in his head:

Will said that El felt like a mistake, and that Mike made her feel like she was better for being different. She was terrified of losing him and so that's why she pushed him away.

So Mike came out of that conversation with new feelings for El: he thought that SHE needed HIM to love her, not because of "dumb luck," but because of his unique qualities. Who HE is helps her be a superhero.

But El's journey in Season 4 was to LEAVE Mike to "be a superhero." When she left a note for Mike, she tellingly signed it "From El." When she realized he couldn't say he loved her, she chose to let go of their romantic relationship. Her journey in Season 4 was about finding who she was independently from others in her life (most importantly her "papa" Dr. Brenner). El went through her own journey that REQUIRED separating from Mike.

By the time they reunite, she has grown. Instead of Mike coming up with the plan (like so many times before), EL came up with the piggyback plan. While she was piggybacking, Mike said "I love you" -- but having her self-image rely on how Mike sees her was something she was moving away from.

She had felt like a monster. What liberated her from feeling that was NOT Mike and not an elusive "normal life" (with a relationship) -- let alone something as token and symbolic as saying "I love you." She had to realize this on her own:

There were clues in Mike's monologue for her to pick up on that he wasn't fully telling the truth, first and foremost him saying that he "knew, in that moment, that I loved you." (He couldn't have, when he was openly scheming in s1 to get her sent away, possibly to a mental hospital, loud enough for her to hear.)

But Mike DID love El when he said "I love you." Mike saw someone who desperately needed him, someone whom MIKE was a hero to and not just the other away around.

That person he was thinking of, of course, was WILL.

It wasn't like it was news to Mike that El needed his love: El confronted him earlier in the season for not saying he loved her. We all saw that El's heartbreak didn't convince Mike that he loved El.

Ironically, it was WILL'S heartbreak, HIS emotions, and HIS words that did. And Mike felt something real this time, because it came from WILL.

Will's words affected Mike deeply. Deep down, Mike wants to be someone's hero. He's the leader; he's "the heart." When dealing with a superhero like El, he can admire and love her, sure... but does it make MIKE feel loved for who HE is? Does a romantic relationship with El COMPLETE him? Mike doesn't want to be a discount Lois Lane. He wants be loved because who HE is makes him THEIR hero, too.

Mike has always been bullied, misunderstood, and angry. He rambled just before Will's speech about being "some random nerd" and feeling like he didn't deserve El. He felt inadequate, and this affected him ("leader Mike" recedes when he's in a relationship with El, and comes forward when someone -- usually Will -- needs him). Will's point "You make them feel better because they're different" doesn't just describe El + Will; this is what Mike is looking for, too.

Being "some random nerd" is part of why Will loves him so much. Will's painting was the perfect gift; Will knows and understands his best friend better than anyone. The D&D theme was a tribute to Mike the nerd -- he sees everything he is, the "good" and the "bad" -- AND he sees the hero and the leader. WILL's love for WHO MIKE IS made him feel like he's a good person.

(Here's an angelwithnightmares video that shows this about Mike exactly)

Mike's journey in s4 was him rediscovering that he is a hero. And this required separating from El and hearing this from Will. Will said that he's the leader of the group: "You keep the party together." And earlier in the season he reminded Mike "you guys saved me" (with a proud "I did, didn't I" reaction from Mike that was super cute lol).

Will's love gave Mike the strength to be a hero again. Mike pretty much used Will's words in his monologue to El. Two scenes at the end of Season 4 foreshadowed "leader Mike" coming back; his speech to El, and his "We will" shoulder grab with Will. Whatever issues there were in his monologue, this was THE callback to "leader Mike" of s1 and s2. He didn't help El beat Vecna, but he helped them survive. Mike spoke of his genuine platonic love for El, while thinking it was romantic love. And it was WILL's romantic love that helped him be this hero, to say "I love you" to the person he thought made him feel that way, who as it turns out was WILL.

So we'll have a final season where there is this hugest of loose ends when it comes to Byler: Mike will somehow realize that Will in the van was describing himself and not El. Mike will realize that the first time he felt romantic love, was because of Will, and that Will more than anyone helps him be the hero he wants to be. (It's the perfect formula, writing-wise, to make a closeted boy confused about his romantic feelings!)

AND Mike will learn that Will sacrificed his own happiness for him and El. How does that NOT lead to Mike loving Will even more than he already does?

Finn Wolfhard himself said about the van scene:

How is he this clueless right now? What with the Will scene... I remember asking the Duffers, "Why would he not know all this?" And they were like, "Don't worry, kid, it'll pay off in the end."

I think it will.

-teambyler

[robin-buck1ey]

Nancy wheeler, the woman that you are

[luv-byers]

Soooo, i’ve seen people talk about how mike and will are looking at each other here but has anyone noticed this?

It’ s important enough to add it to the poster but NEITHER OF THEM has used a bike for the hole season…

Foreshadowing season 5 huh, interesting……

[stranger-theory]

GUYS WHY ISNT THIS MORE TALKED ABOUT

Outside The Wall: What Would El Have Seen If She’d Gone Through The Tunnel During NINA?

So, I was rewatching the tunnel scene during NINA, and something hit me- what would El have seen if she had gone through the tunnel during NINA?

Sure, IRL/in 1979, if she’d actually gone through the tunnel, she wouldve seen the forest outside of the lab/the rest of Hawkins etc etc.

But what about within NINA? What if NINA El had gone through that tunnel? What would be on the other side? Does NINA simulate anything beyond the lab? Would it have just been an empty void? Would El have gone into another part of her own mind like how she goes through various parts of Max’s mind later on in S4? Would El have ended up in Henward’s mind like how Max found a backdoor into Vecna’s mind and what I’ve talked about with a.) Henward being sentient and present during NINA/hooked up in a NINA tank and b.) this post that I made re: a “backdoor” into Vecna’s mind and how a “backdoor” is a coding term, which would tie into NINA’s computer programming.

And this also makes me think of Pink Floyd’s The Wall & all of the references to The Wall in ST, versus the white bricks in HNL during NINA resembling the white bricks from The Wall, versus the direct reference to The Wall right after that tunnel scene:

Versus the song “Outside The Wall” from The Wall, which is about the idea of breaking the cycle (staring at El’s literal cycle in the beginning of NINA where she’s stuck in a loop/cycling through all those doors that lead to the rainbow room), also how all it takes to break that cycle is a change in perspective- to break down the wall/ specifically to get outside the wall/out to the other side of the wall, which is exactly what El would have done if she’d gone through that tunnel.

Would El getting outside of HNL have ended a time loop? Would it have ended the simulation entirely?

What would El have seen outside the walls of HNL if she’d gotten out during NINA?

I wonder if she would’ve gotten a literal change in perspective- if she would have, maybe, ended up seeing stuff through Henward’s eyes- especially with what I just talked about re: a backdoor into Henward’s mind and also what I talked about in this post with the line about how a “scared enough ONE” might use the tunnel, and the idea of Henward having tried to escape the lab via the tunnel when he was younger/small enough to use the tunnel.

[randomthingzzzzzz]

OK HELLO so i was rewatching season 4 and i just noticed in the last scene in the background behind el looking at upside down hawkins IT LITERALLY LOOKS LIKE WILLS EYES ARE CLOSED LIKE HES IN A VECNA TRANCE?? LIKE HOW HAVE I NOT NOTICED THIS BEFORE?? i have looked everywhere and have not seen anyone talk about it I feel like im going crazy!! PLS IGNORE MY HORRIBLE PICTURE because i don’t have the episode downloaded so i couldn’t screen shot it from netflix but pls tell me im not crazy?? also u can see in the back his face stays like that like it’s not him blinking or anything. SOMEONE PLSS TELL ME IM NOT CRAZY!!