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my-bated-breath · 4 years ago

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On an Immensely Popular Post

Disclaimer: What I’m writing here may not be completely accurate -- like most works of art, literature, and even STEM tend to be -- and as a new fan of ATLA, a few of the metas I publish may be obsolete or unintentionally insensitive. That being said, I like to believe that I can contribute something valuable to this fandom. In all my (real) metas, I wish to be as objective as possible and not rely on my biases, fanon, or common “knowledge” that may just be misconceptions. If anyone reading this finds something to be false or contrived, I am always welcome to constructive criticism. What I am not welcome to is senseless hate or bashing.

My first experiences with the ATLA fandom begun a long, long time ago, but the most recent and powerful revival of my love for ATLA started with me actually watching the show and soon after, with me falling into the endless abyss of ATLA metas on Tumblr. Sifting through the well-written analyses and the emotion-based rants had taught me a lot about critical thinking and the power of influence, so now I’d like to present a meta that critiques an extremely popular post with over 60,000 notes. And since it’s so popular, this is the part where I must make yet another disclaimer.

Disclaimer: I hold nothing against lesbians4sokka (whose name has now been changed to comradekatara). They have the right to share what they want, but since this particular post has become so influential that it’s still being reblogged regularly to this day, I believe it is within my right to criticize it - emphasis on “criticize,” which is different from “hate.”

Now that that’s out of the way, let us begin:

Lesbians4sokka/comradekatara covers 3 main subjects in their post, which I will quote/summarize below:

(1) Ma/iko: “...the entire foundation of mai and zuko’s relationship was built on how miserable they were together, and how they would just sit there and hate the world together— letting their misery fester as they enabled each other’s depression— and I think that’s really unfortunate because they would work so well as friends if they weren’t trying to make their dumpster fire of a relationship work.”

(2) Zutara: “similarly, what makes zuko and katara’s dynamic so compelling is that they share the same flaws, only as opposed to mai’s apathy and misery, it’s katara’s rage and guilt that zuko identifies with. they both share trauma over having lost their mothers, and both in a similar way (sacrificing themselves for them) and they both cope with their grief through rage, often misplaced… katara and zuko have a deep & profound friendship, but if they were to be in a relationship, they would only bring out the absolute worst in each other thru enabling each other’s rage and emotion-driven decision making.”

(3) Z/uk/ka: this pairing makes for a healthy and wholesome relationship because throughout the boiling rock, we see that “sokka and zuko make an excellent team, as they balance each other perfectly. sokka thinks big picture, and plans ahead, but zuko will charge into situations.” They inspire each other, they trust each other unconditionally, they become more open and supportive of each other, they share a lot of common interests and narrative parallels, and in general, just make each other happy (which could work both platonically and romantically).

As for my response: I’m sure many of you are expecting me to start to save the “best for last.” That assumption would be incorrect because I actually have the least to say about point 3.

I agree that Z/uk/ka can be a good relationship. Their dynamic is funny, playful, supportive, etc. etc. (there are so many positive adjectives I could use to describe their dynamic, the list could go on forever). And they could make a great couple.

…

What, did you expect more from me? That’s it, I’m done.

I’m not here to attack Z/uk/ka as a ship, because while I can never actively ship it (I’m a sad, narrow-minded exclusive shipper, always had been and always will be) I can objectively appreciate them as one. It’s points 1 and 2 I’m more concerned about.

Now, since we’ve already begun working backward, I’ll begin my critiques on point 2: I could write extensively about the parallels between Zuko and Katara, including but not limited to shared pain and a few shared flaws - and just a few, because their weaknesses diverge in many important places. However, since I’m trying to write as objectively as possible and since Zuko-Katara parallels have already been discussed to death, my analysis will focus elsewhere.

However, something from comradekatara’s post that I would first like to address is this-

[Zuko and Katara] both cope with their grief through rage, often misplaced. in the southern raiders, they both act deeply insensitively towards sokka by acting as if his grief over his mother’s death is somehow less valid simply because he is a lot quieter in his coping mechanisms and doesn’t project his rage & guilt onto everyone else.

- or rather, the idea that Zuko and Katara’s shared pain causes them to act insensitively towards Sokka (and though the post does not mention it, Aang as well).

(Note: these points have already been covered by countless metas before mine, so you can skip/skim this section to read a newer argument in the next section.)

Even ignoring the fact that the Southern Raiders had many out of character moments, Katara’s insensitivity towards Sokka is first and foremost a reaction against his insensitivity towards her.

_____

Dialogue from Season 3, Episode 16 “The Southern Raiders”:

Aang: Um ... and what exactly do you think this will accomplish?

Katara: [Shakes her head in dismay.] Ugh, I knew you wouldn't understand. [Begins to walk away.]

Aang: Wait! Stop! I do understand. You're feeling unbelievable pain and rage. How do you think I felt about the sandbenders when they stole Appa? How do you think I felt about the Fire Nation when I found out what happened to my people?

Zuko: She needs this, Aang. This is about getting closure and justice.

Aang: I don't think so. I think it's about getting revenge.

Katara: [Angrily.] Fine, maybe it is! Maybe that's what I need! Maybe that's what he deserves!

Aang: Katara, you sound like Jet.

Katara: It's not the same! Jet attacked the innocent. This man, he's a monster.

Sokka: Katara, she was my mother, too, but I think Aang might be right.

Katara: Then you didn't love her the way I did!

Sokka: [Hurt] Katara!

_____

While I believe that Aang’s principles of forgiveness are morally sound, the way he pushes his beliefs onto Katara undermines much of her grief. At first, Aang tries to relate to Katara’s experiences by comparing them to his own, but there is a forceful connotation to his dialogue that suggests that Aang considers himself to be the moral authority compared to Katara. Hence, Aang judges Katara (“I think it’s about getting revenge”) without trying to reach out and understand her, forgoing the empathetic common ground in favor of taking on the moral high ground.

Thus, when Sokka tells Katara, “she was my mother, too, but I think Aang might be right,” Sokka is not only saying that Katara should choose forgiveness, he is implying that Aang is the ultimate moral authority on this matter and that Katara should accept that. Moreover, similarly to Aang, Sokka’s opening line, “she was my mother, too,” had the potential to establish common ground between himself and Katara, but the added “but…” places Sokka on the moral high ground against her instead. Of course, when we remember that just two lines ago Aang equates Katara to Jet, Sokka agreeing with Aang seems even more thoughtless and unsympathetic.

So when Katara lashes out against Sokka, ostensibly “acting as if his grief over his mother’s death is somehow less valid simply because he is a lot quieter in his coping mechanisms and doesn’t project his rage & guilt onto everyone else,” it is important to note that Sokka undermines Katara’s louder, more visible way of grieving as well (though that discounts that for most of the show, Katara only uses her grief over her mother’s death to sympathize with others).

Moreover, Katara’s line, “then you didn't love her the way I did!” is hurtful, yes, but it is not necessarily equivalent to “you didn’t love her as much as I did.” Katara’s love for her mother is different from Sokka’s because her pain over her death is different -- after Kya’s passing, Katara had to carry the emotional burden of becoming a pseudo-mother to Sokka (see Sokka and Toph’s conversation in “The Runaway”), a burden that did not cease after she joined the GAang (see the entirety of “The Desert”). To Katara, Kya was not only her mother, but the representation of the childhood she lost and the sacrifice made to protect her life. Sokka simply does not have that same relationship with Kya.

I do not mean to say that Sokka and Aang unfairly taking on the moral authority in this situation means that this authority instead belongs to Katara (and Zuko) - “The Southern Raiders” is filled with questionable moments from all parties involved. However, TSR is an episode that delves into Katara (and Zuko)’s relationship with a mother’s sacrifice, so how Zuko and Katara respond to this specific trauma from their past does not dictate how they respond to painful circumstances in the present/future. Let’s see how this is true.

Sozin’s Comet, Part 1: The Phoenix King

No doubt Zuko and Katara felt some form of frustration upon Aang’s disappearance, so let’s see how they “[enabled] each other’s rage and emotion-driven decision making”:

Here, Katara and Zuko make a decision together that turns out to be calm, rational, and not at all emotionally-driven despite their mutual frustration and worry towards Aang.

Sozin’s Comet, Part 2: The Old Masters

Zuko holds immense pain and self-loathing over betraying Iroh, yet Zuko and Katara’s conversation does not enable/exacerbate negativity from any party involved (since Zuko often translates his grief into anger, and Katara was evidently angry at Zuko’s betrayal). Instead, their conversation is open, encouraging, and constructive.

(Note: this is where the review of points made by previous metas ends.)

Hence, to say that “[Zuko and Katara] would only bring out the absolute worst in each other [through] enabling each other’s rage and emotion-driven decision making” - when we are given in-canon examples of the opposite being true - would be a sweeping and inaccurate generalization.

But for the sake of argument let’s say that, hypothetically, Zuko and Katara’s relationship would fail because they only bring out the worst in each other. And here’s where the argument falls apart for me - Is the argument here that Zuko and Katara have an incredibly meaningful friendship yet somehow this “friendship” causes them to enable each other, thus encouraging each other’s worst flaws and regressing each other’s growth? Is a healthy friendship - much less a “deep and profound” one - not one where two individuals can learn from each other in positive ways and balance each other’s shortcomings?

Or is it something different we’re saying here? Are we saying that two individuals can have a “deep and profound” friendship and yet the moment their relationship shifts from platonic to romantic, they are terrible for each other?

While many significant platonic bonds are stunted when they become romantic, I still believe it to be common sense that some of the best romantic relationships stem from a platonic foundation. But since much of “common sense” on the internet sees that “sense” is nonsensical and “common” is a nicer way to refer to mob mentality, I have done my research to show how Zuko and Katara could have been an excellent case of a friends-to-lovers relationship.

An excerpt from my meta, “Research Shows that Zutara Would Have Been the Ideal Friends to Lovers Dynamic.” (give it a read if you want to see references to relationship-research and an overanalysis on diction/tone)

The reason why Zutara is framed as a “toxic and unhealthy” relationship is that their romance would be a classic example of the enemies-to-lovers trope, a trope which modern media has not been particularly kind to. However, when executed correctly, enemies-to-lovers can produce a healthy and loving relationship, frequently relying on friendship as an intermediate between the “enemy” and “lover” stages in the most well-executed versions of this trope. Meanwhile, the trope of friends-to-lovers is just as popular as enemies-to-lovers, though the specific dynamic required between two individuals to achieve this transition is not well-known. Recognizing this, Laura K. Guerrero and Paul A. Mongeau, both of whom are involved in relationship-related research as professors at Arizona State University, wrote a research paper on how friendships may transition into romantic relationships…

According to Guerrero and Mongeau, “...scholars have argued that intimacy is located in different types of interactions, ranging from sexual activity and physical contact to warm, cozy interactions that can occur between friends, family members, and lovers…” Guerrero and Mongeau then reference a relationship model where the initial stages (i.e. perceiving similarities, achieving rapport, and inducing self-disclosure) reflect platonic/romantic intimacy through communication while the latter stages (i.e. role-taking, achieving interpersonal role fit, and achieving dyadic crystallization) often see both individuals as achieving a higher level of intimacy that involves more self-awareness.

In the rest of my research-based meta I demonstrate how Zuko and Katara’s platonic interactions in the show fit into the stages of communicative intimacy (i.e. perceiving similarities, achieving rapport, and inducing self-disclosure) that Guerrero and Mongeau describe as being mutual between friendships and romances. As such, crossing the line between friends and more-than-friends most likely would not cause a dramatic shift in the Zutara dynamic since much of Zuko and Katara’s platonic intimacy easily translates into romantic intimacy. I’ll end off with another excerpt from my meta.

Excerpt from “Research Shows that Zutara Would Have Been the Ideal Friends to Lovers Dynamic.”

“...it would be remiss to simply dismiss the Zutara dynamic as one that would instantly become toxic should they pursue a romantic relationship.”

With that little thought in mind, let’s move onto point 3: an exploration of friendship, romance, and why toxicity is not exclusive to the latter.

Let’s start with what I agree with:

“The entire foundation of mai and zuko’s relationship was built on how miserable they were together, and how they would just sit there and hate the world together— letting their misery fester as they enabled each other’s depression...”

I’m not sure how necessary it is for me to elaborate on this point given that it’s already been accepted by comradekatara and perhaps 60,000+ other users on Tumblr (a gross exaggeration but this remains unimportant), but in her essay, “Zuko, Mai, and the Nature of True Intimacy,” Araeph contributes more nuance to the concept of Ma/iko and mutual misery, stating that,

Unfortunately for [Zuko and Mai’s] relationship, Mai is and will always be a pessimist—a character trait, not a character flaw, in her. The key difference lies in how Mai and Zuko use their negative feelings. When Zuko sinks into negativity, he gives up on any actions that will materially change his world for the better; Mai, on the other hand, can remain negative even at the height of her character development, and it does not impede her ability to act.

So while Mai enables Zuko’s depression, Zuko does not necessarily do the same for Mai. Nonetheless, throughout their relationship for the first half of season 3, neither of them communicate constructively or push each other to grow as people.

This may be the third disclaimer I’m making, but I first want to say I have nothing against Mai. However, I do have something against the idea that “[Mai and Zuko] would work so well as friends if they weren’t trying to make their dumpster fire of a relationship work.”

Their relationship is a dumpster fire, yes, but will the flames cease simply if the amount of intimacy in the relationship changes?

comradekatara state themselves that their entire romantic relationship is quite depressing - they are only able to connect through empty physical intimacy and mutual hatred of the world. Without that, there is little left for them to bond over. Once Zuko overcomes his conflicting morality and inaction from the first half of season 3, he becomes someone who is strongly guided by his principles and beliefs. However, for the entirety of the series, Mai is characterized by her moral apathy. To cite from Araeph again,

It is moral intimacy that is the last and worst omission for Mai and Zuko… Zuko’s struggle to find and follow his principles is the most central aspect of his character, yet it is a struggle Mai neither understands nor respects…

Lack of moral intimacy (not sharing the same core beliefs) is something that applies to both platonic and romantic bonds. Thus, just as transitioning from a meaningful friendship to a romance does not inherently create toxicity in a relationship, switching from a romance that exacerbates one (or both, depending on how you interpret it) party’s misery does not necessarily erase the preexisting negativity in a relationship - perhaps some of it may subside, sure, but as long both parties continue to fail at communicating and understanding each other, even their friendship seems bleak at best. In this case, Mai and Zuko may work well as conditional friends, or in other words, friends who are only friends when they have something to mutually be miserable over. And this tiptoes the line of speculation, but they could be a formidable political team. But unless the Ma/iko dynamic shifts drastically in the lovers-to-friends transition, I’m not sure if there’s much potential in a friendship between them.

In conclusion, there is a lot I don’t agree with from comradekatara’s post, but if there’s one takeaway I want to impart onto everyone who’s read this far, it’s this: crossing and uncrossing the line between platonic and romantic bonds is not always a transformative experience for the relationship, and the nature of human relationships is a complex spectrum -- not a light switch that can only be set between healthy and unhealthy.

Thank you all for reading!

#atla #atla meta #my bated breath analyzes #this is more pro-zukka than anti-zukka #but I will include neither in my tags #zutara #anti maiko #once again this is a critique #not a post meant to tear anyone or their views down #my bated breath's posts

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vivifrage · 4 years ago

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hey can you tag your stuff w/ the pale king or lurien w their names so they dont get thru my blocks? i dont wanna have to scroll by anyfin w/ two disgusting little men oki? ty!

Mkay. Let’s look at this one versus the previous ask.

I probably would have some ideological disagreements with the previous asker, and I don’t want to be waving flags without knowing exactly what it’s for, nor do I want to paint a target on my back. (I’ve been in anti spaces, I’ve witnessed the “background checks” that occur and the shit people get even for things years old and after changes of heart.) I hope the solution to that works for them, even if it’s another tag to add to their blocklist. They asked, no moral judgment on it, all’s well. I’m glad they asked rather than stay uncomfortable.

But like, my friend, you waltzed in and decided to insult two characters I enjoy (else I wouldn’t be reblogging enough with them for this to be an issue) in the process. Sure, they’re fictional, they don’t care, but actual people sure aren’t endeared by denigrating things they enjoy. Especially when asking a favor of said person. Surely you recognize how fucking rude that is, right? Is this honest to god how you treat people? Do the people around you honestly think this is okay, or would you turn on them the moment they disagree with you on these things?

(Look. If it was just a rude anon in my inbox, that’s one thing, but it’s not very hard to figure who this is and frankly, this isn’t the first instance of being disrespectful to other people in the fandom. Not to mention what sure as hell looked like a massive ass covering when being called on tying an oft-demonized identity to a character you dislike, explicitly mentioning you dislike him while doing so, and then using a headcanon to say people shouldn’t be doing a ship you dislike. And tbh I do notice patterns of who dances around my “men are actual human beings too, some are marginalized and suffer abuse, they deserve support and respect” posts and instead goes right for No Nuance November/subtle TERF support move of reblogging the ones critical of the patriarchy and men’s behavior.)

So. I’ll tag the Pale King and Lurien. And I’d also recommend taking a long, hard look at how you treat and think of other people.

#anti culture mention #Anonymous

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mrs-nate-humphrey · 4 years ago

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you’ve talked a little bit about this wrt dan, but i’m curious: what are your favorite seasons/arcs for the main gg characters? (serena, blair, dan, nate, jenny, vanessa) cause everyone’s personalities tended to uh, shift a bit from season to season and storyline to storyline, and i’m wondering which eras of those characters were your favorite?

oh, so i sat on this question for a very long time, and spent a ton of time thinking over it. here we go!

i loved the way serena was written in s1 and s2. she was so full of joy despite all the difficult things she’d endured, so bubbly and warm and... lively is ALWAYS the adjective that comes to mind for serena, despite how it’s a terrible pun. but yeah! she had an energy to her that was very childlike & genuine, and i loved that about her - despite the things she’d endured, she was so full of light (?? how do i describe this.) i know that serena’s arc gets notably more tragic s3 onwards, but i feel like the way she was written lost a bit of depth s3 onwards as well. she had a sharp wit, and a good sense of humour, she was playful and... most notably, she had this little giggle? that she literally NEVER does in the later seasons, which makes me sad?? she stopped laughing like a child at the age of, what, 19?? idk. in s1 & s2 serena had so many layers, and i feel like as the seasons went on they tried to, uh. keep only the surface layers? they didn’t really do justice to the character they started out with.

my answer for vanessa is actually the exact same, with slight modifications. vanessa’s energy in s1 and s2 was unparalleled. literally the best. i loved her and the way she was critical of everything and YET so ready to learn. compared to all these rich, privileged, white people... her presence was just SO good and so important to me, because the way she was so critical of the uber rich was something nobody else really was, and i think that perspective WAS valuable and should’ve remained, haha. idk what it was about s3, but i feel like they didn’t keep the crux of who vanessa was? it wasn’t a BAD vanessa season as much as an incomplete one. i felt they could’ve done so much more with a character like vanessa.... she’s so vibrant and full of life! and the way s3 was for her was very surface. and then in s4 they just demolished her character entirely. i’ve said it before, i’ll say it again: what jenny, juliet and vanessa did in 4x09 was TOTALLY out of character for vanessa. she would never, ever do that. and by the time s4 came around... someone else said this, i don’t remember who. but they said that vanessa was basically being used as a plot device more than as a character. notice how she’s always in the right place at the right time to overhear the right thing? it’s a travesty, because vanessa was just..... so significant to me. like her being there added so much value & even changed the tone of the show imo.

my blair feelings are very complicated. i think she’s fascinating, and i love leighton & her performance. i love book blair so much more than show blair, and idk why or how to explain it. i mentioned this in that post where i ranked the characters, but while watching blair in high school specifically i can’t EVER forget that she would probably hatecrime me, and even when she’s out of school she is still supremely racist at times. i actually liked blair best in s5 - and i know she was going thru ~tragic~ stuff (i think they dialled the tragedy too high actually, like, blair had TOO MUCH on her plate and from a storytelling point of view it was... ambitious, to say the least, to hope to bring all out of that out on tv) but like, keeping her tragedy aside. her capacity for kindness and care really shone thru while she was with dan, and i liked how the d/b relationship took her out of her comfort zone and her “but im a Waldorf!” bubble and let her, idk, be a person. i liked her in s4, too. i feel like blair is a really good, nuanced, fleshed out character as blair, and the way she clung to being a waldorf combined with her rich-white-girl privilege got kind of boring after a while because like. she’s not like louis? her character has so much depth. her character doesn’t need to be reduced to a title, because she’s SO much more than that.

i feel like i need to do a lot more rewatching when it comes to dan because i CANNOT be objective about him. he reminds me far too much of myself!!! down to his flaws and his mistakes and his issues – i was a precocious little shit in high school at times in very similar ways to dan, i like to think i’ve grown out of that (& am perpetually making an effort TO grow out of falling into those patterns) & that’s what i want for dan, too. dan’s arc feels real to me, because a lot of it is my arc, too. feeling lonely, out of place & unaccepted in high school --> being a popular kid in college… that hits really close to home. s1 & s2 are important seasons to me because i’m extremely protective of awkward, trying-his-best high school dan (he can be awful at times, but he can be earnest and sincere, too!) i feel like s4 is actually the best dan season – took me a while to get here, but halfway thru my s2 rewatch that’s how i’m leaning. but dan’s arc was very interesting to me, and i wish they’d kept his heart. trying to retcon him as evil fell absolutely flat to me, like. who are you convincing! one of my friends and i were joking about how georgie blackmailed dan into pretending to be gossip girl (she obviously has dirt on him that nobody else does.) anyway. dan’s arc felt pretty true until the end of s4. i wasn’t a big fan of how he was written in s5, i felt like something had been taken away from his character, but i don’t know how to say it better. you’re right though, i have gone over this a lot! so i’m not going to break my head over it, ‘cause we’re already a thousand words in and i still have nate and jenny to go.

speaking of jenny, though: i think dan’s storylines REALLY needed more of a big brother arc. the way he was characterised, especially in s1, was very “i would kill a man for my baby sister” and i have NO idea where that went or why they got rid of it. (actually, i do have some idea. fucking chip wiskers apologism & elevation of chair over literally anything else. sigh)

okay, now speaking of jenny in terms of jenny. i liked her s1 arc, like, her trying to make friends with these people & trying to keep her morals and realising she can’t do both was interesting. i think that should’ve been that with her clashes with girls in constance, though. and afterwards, either nothing happens, or she transfers out of constance, etc. jenny’s s2 arc makes me sad – she was exploited and treated like dirt in so many ways :( the jenny/agnes was interesting in s2, though, and there’s no way to interpret it that ISN’T lesbian. i’ve always felt like jenny’s feelings for nate in s2 are very comphet. jenny’s s3 arc made me even sadder than her s2 arc- she was alienating all her friends one by one, making everyone hate her, and just…… spiralling. she really needed a better support system. her s4 arc made no sense. like. why did she come back in the city to fuck with serena like that? it didn’t feel right.

yeah, all that said… i feel like there are many super intriguing elements of jenny’s storylines and arcs, like, even within canon events if things had been executed differently, it could’ve been actually good/empowering. but the writers hated jenny. and this show was never a feminist show.

ah, so… nate. he started out as a flake in s1 & s2. that’s his whole thing. he doesn’t know who he wants to be / how to get what he wants / how to get where he wants. he takes people for granted. he isn’t dependable or reliable, he lets people down (most notably, blair & vanessa.) and he means well, sure! but his life is like amber and he’s trapped in it. he doesn’t follow his heart, he’s too busy trying to please the wrong people, etc etc. in s3 he’s suddenly so ready for commitment, which always breaks my heart because vanessa!!! but anyway. s3 has a shift in his character, possibly him getting dumped at prom and realising that high school is over and one thing that tethered him to his family (being a kid, being a high schooler, being a minor, whatever) – one big thing that held him there is gone. so it makes sense that he starts trying to be his own person. i like s3 nate, and s4 nate. we see nate sort of gradually try and be a moral compass, and it’s interesting to me. when i write d/n fic something i really focus on is dan finding nate dependable, and i think that’s a value that builds in nate over time. nate of season 1 is not dependable, nope, no way. but nate of s4 seems like a decent friend to have. in s5 and s6 they more or less threw his entire arc to the wind and gave him so many shitty storylines (sage spence, wtf? nate would not do this. he’s been on the opposite end of this before, he would not carry the pattern forward, ffs.)

idk. this almost hit 1.7k, LMAO. i hope it made some amount of sense!

#anon #this is long enough to be a fanfic LMAOO #meta

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lemongogo · 5 years ago

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hey im the anon abt gyutaro/ume and i dont remember what happens to demons after they die ?? did i miss smth ? regardless i wanna ask what do you think their fate should be ? cause on one hand i think they're just victims of a cruel world who took the first way out they could find but on the other hand it doesnt rlly justify all the slaughter, and i also think abt the demon slayers who also suffered horrible fates and used it to fuel their determination to save other people from that pain

hi !! i don’t think kny ever explicitly mentions what happens to demons after they die (as in we never have concrete evidence of where they go or how their lives after are spent), but i think the general consensus is that the demons go to hell.

in some cases, the family can decide to go with them (ex: rui and i think akaza? if i remember correctly?) but their fate is pretty much sealed from that point forward i believe.

heres a pic of gyuutarou and ume, actually, in chapter 97 !!

but yeah !! thats something i think about a lot tbh. as you mentioned, many of the demons we’ve seen have either been groomed into demonhood (rui, ume, susamaru, etc.) or had their pain and suffering exploited (akaza, gyuutarou) for the sake of advancing other demons’ plans (muzan, douma, etc). so i agree ! a lot of these characters are unfortunate victims in themselves and its impossible to view their stories without incorporating the struggles they’ve had to face as both humans AND demons. especially considering that lots of these individuals experience muzan’s abuse regardless of their status relative to him (such as with the upper and lower moons). i think this is best explained through akaza’s relationship with muzan,

(ch. 67)

(ch.156)

and further explored though tanjiro’s observation of rui’s death. he notes that being a demon, for most, is an existence punctuated by extreme grief and despair, and that’s equally supported, i think, by the humanization of these demons following death. that their original conscious is restored (albeit with knowledge of everything they’ve done) and are oftentimes plagued by the guilt of what’s happened.

(ch.43)

what he says here is probably what sums it up for me. that while it’s important to condemn these demons and hold them accountable for the truly awful things they’ve done, it’s also important to consider the suffering they've experienced through existence alone. its so !! complex !! and thats what i love about kny. i love how .. you have some demons who are entirely despicable and bask in the carnage they create, but you also have some for whom demonhood was simply what appeared to be the only answer towards living a healthier life or righting the wrongs that’ve been done to them (usually with false promises and manipulation unbeknownst to them). and .. its so hard to figure out where to.. draw that line. or view these characters at least. because you sympathize with their pain, but you also realize that their actions have caused endless pain for many hundreds of people. tanjiro losing his entire family, giyuu losing his. shinobu watching her sister die before her very eyes, and kanao the same. the ubuyashiki family’s curse or the slaughter of himejima’s children. you look at characters like sanemi, shinobu, or giyuu and understand that you cannot invalidate their view of demons either. while kanae and tanjiro may find hope and humanity in demons, they exist as monsters who feast on pain to everyone else. its important not to discredit their perspective when making a personal choice to observe the demons’ hardships yknow. shinobu’s anger is just as warranted as tanjiro’s optimism and that neither are wrong for how they personally feel demons should be handled after death.

im like. AAAAAAAA theres so much to it , its really hard for me to condense into a few sentences AHAHA im so sry for making u read this if u still are. but . i guess i’m not too sure. i think maybe, had i experienced the same pain as those above, it would be easy for me to say the demons deserve to go to the worst hell imaginable regardless of what they’ve gone through because that history isn’t accessible to everyone like it has been the audience (or that they’ve seemingly made the conscious decision to cause harm w/o understanding the ways in which demonhood obscures their original conscious/morality). but at the same time, you have those like tanjiro whose world view is shaped by positive encounters with demons like nezuko, tamayo, yushirou, etc. where it seems very evident that . theres more to it than what meets the eye.

one of my friends ive talked to about this had a rly good perspective on it thats kinda stuck with me since !! she said she likes to view their conclusion as some . separation of identity?? if that makes sense?? that the demon side of them goes to hell while their human form goes to heaven (or division into whichever afterlife). and !! i think thats a really neat interpretation because there’s obvious descrepancy between demon personas and human personas. that the demon personas are like. exaggerations of their flaws, almost (akaza becoming hellbent on battle spirits and physical victories when hajuki’s fury & determination was fueled by love in a sense) while their human personas are the truest sense of self. and depending on which influence there is (muzan vs the appearance of loved ones), their identity changes accordingly. so ! idk ! thats one nice way of looking at it. holding their demon personas accountable while also recognizing that many of these characters deserve some form of healing after many hundreds of years of abuse. its hard because ofc i don’t want to negate the harms they’ve caused but its also? not cut and dry given the environment they were placed in and the fact that muzan’s blood essentially removes their humanity against their will you know. so in this way at least you have both forms of self receiving the proper conclusion.

whwhwhw so im. !!!!!!!!!!!! ah !! i can’t say i have a definite answer but i think the one above is smth thats comforting to me. i think the story settles with sending them to hell once they’ve regained their past self but also .. “softens” it by providing them company by their loved ones who are willing to go w them?? so thats rly cool to look at too. because it holds them accountable for all that’s happened but also.. recognizes that they’re not wholly responsible for it either and that .. even in hell they’re able to keep their connections and human emotions/experiences . its tragic yet oddly. fitting, i think, of the kny narrative. while i like the aforementioned interpretation, i also really.. appreciate the way its set up in canon too. like yeah i want the best for them but also. it fits in with the tragic nature of demonhood and what it meant for them all. oddly enough.

u make a good point too !! about demon slayers experiencing the same hardships but using their pain to help others. i think a lot of it is plainly chalked up to luck in terms of.. what they were exposed to following tragedy. how shinobu and kanae were saved by himejima, tanjiro saved by giyuu, kanao picked up by shinobu and kanae, sanemi given the guidance of kagaya while akaza was killed by muzan during his lowest moment, ume and gyuutarou were cornered by douma, rui misled by muzan, etc. i think circumstance is definitely a large factor in determining the paths that were taken. such as sanemi’s anger being validated and heard by ubuyashiki vs, say, akaza’s same anger being intentionally exploited for muzan’s gain.

aaa anyways. theres a lot 2 be said about this. like. SO much on my mind and obviously the extent of muzan’s abuse goes far deeper than what’s briefly mentioned here but. i love talking about the complexities of kny . and how i view the demons vs the corps and how each of them have grown into their respective stories . AA but ill end it here THNK U >> also so sry for making u read thru all of this i get so excited i could talk abt kny all day long if i had the chance AAA

#Anonymous #asktag #tldr: UH im a sympathetic bitch who wishes for some form of recovery for Some demons while also #finding it necessary to hold them accountable.#and easy way to do that is to split identities between human and demon persona but thats mighty convenient for such #a large issue so . the current narrative is probably the one i still oddly like #just bc the little peace they get before descent into hell is. really big #and their support by loved ones following them thru is also. really big #anyways. ya viri i thot of what u said bc its so good #its been a while so idk if its the exact version of how u view it but thts how it stuck w me JSBFSKBFSBJF #naywaysb I LOVE KNY AAAAAAAAAAAAA screams #kny #kny spoilers #kny manga #save for later

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freckliedan · 6 years ago

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can you describe the first time u saw the vday vid?

oof. yeah b, i can- i'm not sure what level of detail u were looking for with this ask but i might have both more and less than you were hoping for? i have a very weirdly strong memory for things that have happened in my life - less so for things that happened during 10th grade & half of 11th grade bc i was dissociating so hard then - but my memories go back into first person around halfway thru 11th grade, which is when i found dnp, so. i remember watching the vday vid for the first time pretty damn well.

(under the cut because i do not know how to not make essays)

i was 16, it was late november/early december of 2012, and i'd first watched a dnp vid in mid/early november. less than a month after the vday leak. so. it was just over six years ago and it was late at night and i was on my computer after i was supposed to be asleep, i’m sure of that. it was dark out; nighttime during alaska winters is something that’s hard to describe to people who haven’t experienced it before. it’s an omnipresent lack of light.

so it was nighttime and i was almost certainly the last person awake in my house. my mom and sister always were asleep before me, and my parents had separated the summer before my 10th grade year so it was just the three of us at home. i would’ve been in the bedroom i’d had since i was seven.

(replying to this ask feels weird, because even though i moved out when i was 18, i moved back in with my dad almost two years ago now and my bed is in the exact same place in the exact same room as it was when i was in highschool? it doesn’t feel the same as it did then, everything is better than it was when i was younger, but it’s still so weird to be revisiting this so many years later).

my bedframe had drawers and storage built in, and i would tuck my computer away in the second drawer down and pull it out once everyone else was asleep so i could go back on the internet. i definitely did that, the night i saw the vday vid. i didn’t have a tumblr yet, then; i just would regularly check a handful of people’s blogs (the only person whose blog i remember looking at specifically is @thelionandthellama ! finding them again in the phandom this year was so wild and incredible for me).

and like, it was november of 2012.

the vday video was still on tumblr like.. i watched the vday video on tumblr. it was a different time it was a messy time. i probably saw something mentioning it, maybe this gifset? and i remember it.. didn’t take me long to find the video. the tumblr it was on wasn’t even password protected. i tried watching it again a little bit later, though, and the entire blog was gone.

anyways. not to sidetrack right when i get to the part where i’m actually talking about the vday vid itself, but you know how there’s a difference between knowing something rationally and knowing something in your bones or in your gut? like, how sometimes you feel the things you know.

i used to know in my bones that love wasn’t real, romance was 100% of the time inevitably doomed/not real/a lie, and that when people didn’t get divorced it was just because once they stopped being in love they still were friends enough to like, coexist in the same house and life. i knew love wasn’t real i knew it and i knew i was never going to find love and that there was no point.

i was very sad. my parents’ divorce hit me pretty hard but i knew so many other adults who divorced like i didn’t have a reason in my life to believe that love was real or possible! i knew it was fake.

and then i saw the vday video and i remember sitting against my wall and the world just going still when i watched it. because i was anticipating something big, and i already believed that dnp would be good together-i think that’s the only time in my life i would call myself a shipper? before i knew anything. now i just consider myself a supporter of their relationship and someone who’s inspired by/a fan of their love.

back to the video, though. i watched it alone in the dark and i didn’t beleive in love and i’m certain i watched it more than once in a row, that first time. i don’t think it was the moral question that it is now. i know there’s people who morally don’t feel like they can watch it or that they want to? and that’s so valid, and things have gotten awfully convoluted at this point in time around the vday video. but back then i was just a kid in the dark looking for something to believe in and i found it.

i think i cried? i probably cried. because like. i watched it and love was real again. love is everything to me the entire world is love it’s the thing i believe in more than anything else and the vday video made love real again. i watched it and then i watched videos of the halloween gathering and i just. i knew love was real again. i knew they’d said it was a prank. i knew that. but i watched the video and i knew it was real. i knew it. and love existed again.

so, yeah . not to be soppy but dnp literally put my life on the trajectory that lead to me meeting or getting close with everyone i love and consider family and were the start of me figuring out my mental and physical health and what i want to do with my life and i remember sitting in the dark watching the vday video and now i’m in a world filled with light and love and i’m so fucking thankful every single day. this is soppy and long and perhaps not at all what you were looking for but like.

when i watched the vday video i knew it was real and i’m still certain of that and i still cry watching it sometimes. i can’t make eye contact with phil in the video i think watching the vday video is what made me realize how rare it is for phil to actually make eye contact with the camera and it fucks me up .

ok im done. ty for the ask b it was nice looking back down memory lane

#den chats #vday vid #referential #this is a lot of an essay huh #anon #den replies

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coffeeandcalligraphy · 6 years ago

Text

Chapter titles! | June Writing Update

Hey People of Earth!

It’s JULY which means we’re due for a June writing update! I honestly didn’t do very much writing in June (was June even a month? did it happen??), so like with May, this update will be pretty short!

FOSTERED #6

I’m kind of at an eh with this book, honestly! This month consisted of stressing over a scene I couldn’t get quite right, until @sarahkelsiwrites gave me some awesome advice while I was mid *sarah help me*. She said “Just end it where you’ve written up to and come back to it later” which is so insanely simple, but helpful. Because I take long breaks between writing scenes sometimes, I tend to lose sight of a lot of details/initial excitement for scenes, which is basically what happened with this scene! So coming back to it later is actually a lot more helpful than trying to piece together words I meant to write weeks prior, if that makes sense. This was actually something I tried to actively avoid, but it seems to be working way better now!

Sarah is my #1 supporter and I dunno man this book wouldn’t have made it past literally the first chapter header if it weren’t for her lol, so bless her patient soul.

Also, me when I’m writing:

youtube

sarahhhhhhhhhh

my kayak is sinkingggggg

sarahhhhHHHAahhh

I did do a thing I REALLY LOVE for this book this month and that’s chapter titles!

A few months ago, I wrote a chapter that I just *knew* needed a chapter title (Table Manners). After writing it, I tried naming the rest of the chapters in this book, and it wasn’t actually as fun as I thought it would be lol. I couldn’t come up with anything I liked, so I dropped the endeavor.

Welllll I came back to it a few days ago and well I have a whole list now:

honestly this book suck but deez titles doeeeeee

I’ve been writing this book for 9 months and this is like the only happiness it has brought me.

For those who can’t read my handwriting lol:

Breathing Room

Catherine

1997

Max

Double Jointed

Paper Negative

Earl Grey

Table Manners

Girl

Fort Tilden

Fluoxetine

Mother

The Garden

these!!!

!!!

I love them !!!!

they are my babies!!!

their content suck but I love them !!!! beautiful !!

Which chapter title is your favourite? I’m rather fond of how the list meshes as a whole because the atmos thooooo but I *love* Catherine, 1997, Girl, and Fluoxetine!

I thought it’d be cool to do a quick run down of why I chose these titles because there was a lot of thought??

PEOPLE YOU WILL NEED TO KNOW:

Reeve

main character

stressed and tragic

Foster

love interest ?? kind ? of ??? tofu boi???

?????

he’s hardly in any of these chapters so just imagine him making lentil soup instead??

Lonan

problematic brother of MC

has picked a fight with Harrison for *no* reason, currently in his first month of being salty (TM)

Harrison

feisty af but has a big heart

is tired of being walked on by Lonan

hurt af but using that salty energy to help people aw

Darren

the only morally correct character

doesn’t realize what he’s gotten into

Emily

evasive, acts as a manic pixie dream girl figure throughout the novel, is unfortunately romanticized a lot even though she’s very much just a normal girl

1. Breathing Room

Ch. 1 is set in a very ‘claustrophobic’ time for every character

Gang is very divided after *various conflicts, but somehow manages to be suffocated by each other’s problems?

Both Harrison + Foster need some ‘breathing room’ from Reeve lol me too

how do you take a vacation from your first person narrator

2. Catherine

Reeve tries 2 be Darren’s new friend

Helps him set up his library

Title inspired by Catherine Earnshaw (Wuthering Heights)

Foreshadowing for where Reeve’s character ends up (particularly in her relationship w/ Darren)

Since they’re making a library, Wuthering Heights was *relevant*

3. 1997

“My mom met my dad on a Tuesday morning in 1997.”

that’s basically it

I dont know why this sentence just isn’t my parents met on a Tuesday morning etc etc but ok

lmaooo what is writing

4. Max

The name of Reeve’s father (who has died)

She heads out on a ‘de-stress’ vacay with Darren who is her new father figure ?? yonks

Lots of father references, mostly named Max because of Darren’s paternal-ness

5. Double Jointed

@sarahkelsiwrites gave me this idea lol

let’s just say our girl breaks someone’s fingers ??

and a relationship ??

ouch??

6. Paper Negative

Reeve is looking thru family photos

Lonan shows up and starts being a brat

he’s the negative haaha

7. Earl Grey

Reeve makes Lonan tea and some is subsequently spilled

8. Table Manners

Harrison fights w/ Lonan and Reeve has the audacity to tell him he needs to find some manners lol

9. Girl

Reeve glorifies Emily as being this eccentric but perfect person when in reality she’s just a girl

At the same time, degrades her as a ‘lolita’ figure

Lots of toxic femininity

Highkey not stolen from John Lennon

a giiiiiiiiirl

This excerpt kind of explains the whole unhealthy a) glorification of her and b) judgements Reeve makes (tis long and unedited as a heads up):

She’s perched on the armchair next to him. Her feet, unsocked and half-baked laze atop the teakwood desk. She’s at a beach, maybe. Lost her sandals in the tide, mind in the boardwalk. Her hair is shorter, cut to curl at her chin. Red, as always, like the carmine lacquer chipped off her toenails. Shoulders are thin, her waist edges toward gaunt. But I’m sure he doesn’t tell her that. She’s beautiful to him. Starving herself, or taking turns fondling the new Marlboros he sticks between his lips, she’s still beautiful. A puff from him, trade-off, pivoted elbow, kiss from her. Her ribs stick out beneath her tank top, but he loves her. Size zero, tape measure a noose. With all her flaws, he makes love to her through rings of smoke.

Smoking kills you. I want to tell her. That smoke goes straight for your throat. You’ll be forty at twenty. What about your beauty regime? Butted out like he’ll do to your heart, to that cigarette you do unspeakable things to. Aren’t you afraid of being ugly?

I won’t, though. She’s doing nothing wrong. Sat in shorts with her bra leering from under her tank-top, toes flexing, shoulders meager. Guilty, no, garish, yes. I’ve never noticed the gold she wears in her ears until now.

Somehow, she’s managed to remain on his side. With her body like dust, and temperament like mercury, he sits at his desk with her, lets her look at the findings on his laptop screen. I should get them rings for their left hands, an extra diamond for her. A mantle and a spellbook, a white dress and a bouquet. A four-post bed complete with a chiffon canopy for when he canopies her. Rose petals, and champagne. Congratulations. I’m so happy for you. I’ll save the date.

She is a girl, like me, but with his attention. A girl who hasn’t asked for the speculation I impale her with. A girl who doesn’t deserve it. I should be ashamed of myself. That’s what my mom would tell me if she heard the vile thoughts I choke Emily with. You should apologize and be friends with her, Reeve. That’s two weeks grounded, until you learn it’s not ladylike to ridicule her because you aren’t her. It’s not ladylike, Reeve, not ladylike. Where are your manners, young lady?

who doesn't have manners now ???

10. Fort Tilden

A memory about a family reunion at this particular place

11. Fluoxetine

Reeve recounts her mother’s use of antidepressants

Lots of gaslighting in this chapter

12. Mother

The saddest of the titles, recounts a betrayal of a mother figure

Kind of very sad when reflected with the contents of the chapter

13. The Garden

Recounts an experience in a garden with a boy

The setting for the death of a relationship where things are kind of in constant growth? backwards growth?? decay ??

So yes! I rather love these, lol, they bring me very much happiness.

Onto some book stats:

CURRENT WORD COUNT: 56 449

CURRENT PAGE COUNT: 97

STUFF I’VE BEEN LISTENING TO: Ohhh, I mentioned a few of these in my goals update post, but definitely additions to my shippy playlist: Some Kind of Love by The Killers, Happier (Acoustic) by Ed Sheeran, And I Love Her by The Beatles, Can’t Say No by Conor Maynard (my *personal* favourite)

MEDIA I’VE BEEN DIGGING:

Sarah drew this GORGEOUS duo portrait of Ris and Reeve:

(yessss Harrison’s nose is so satisfyinggggg)

I also made a header for Paper Negative w/ this family photo I found in the licensed for reuse w/ modification section on Google:

EXCERPT:

I edited this into the chapter of doom, and you know, I just re-read it and I’m not mad?? I think there are like *adjectives for dayzzzz*, but I think it’s almost where I want it??

His room is warm. Smells of old coffee and cigarette smoke. Emily isn’t here with him. But she’s left her things, yes, her books, and her spells, charms, and crystals. A circle of stones on her dresser, the clamshell rosary looped around the mirror. Set with candles, and beading, a dish of mildewed water. He’s dashed his cigarettes over her incense, and from the look he shoots me when he catches me looking, I figure he’s left them there without her permission. She occupies half of his room, her space bent in a diagonal path from half the door, to the right of the night table. Where she is, her space still breathes, ribbonned and decorated, pinned with dried flowers, and flutes of perfumes. Where he is, his space jitters.

It’s no surprise the left half of the room beams with just his energy. Lighters, and chewed pen caps, posters and pictures and drawings tacked to every breathable inch of the walls, even leaking onto the ceiling. The map, hanging next to his bed, ripped and sewn together again by bits of cellotape. Two opposites under one roof.

And what would I be, then, if I inhabited this room? Not a roommate, or partner, but possibly a lampshade, or chest of drawers. Unimportant enough to not notice every day. Only missed when unavailable. Perhaps I would be of no particular use, too, like Emily’s hanging terrarium, or Harrison’s tossed out marker drawings.

So that’s all for this update, y’all. Hoping July brings back a spark, lol. If not, you can bet I’ll be thoroughly looking for it in the meantime. ;) Thanks for reading!

--Rachel

#writingupdates #writerblr #amwriting #writing

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demenior · 8 years ago

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get to know the blogger night: top ten ships you have and why they're great. [you can do five if you want i just thought you might find it hard to choose]

Top 10 Ships in No Order:

Dean Winchester/Castiel

Steve Rogers/Sam WIlson/Natasha Romanova/Bucky Barnes

Shiro/Ulaz

Jake/Cassie

Rachel/Tobias

Derek/Casey

Rose Tyler/The Doctor/Jack Harkness

Will Graham/Hannibal Lecter

Sora/Kairi/Riku

Larka/Kar

Reasons below, cut for length!

Dean Winchester/Castiel from Spn

I will always love these two. The narrative set them up so incredibly well. They were both raised by absent fathers to be soldiers and to never question orders. But where Dean started to realize the abuse his father heaped onto him and was working away from this, Castiel remained loyal to an increasingly corrupt system. Their early interactions, where Dean is afraid of the powerful creature hiding in a human body that Castiel is, and Castiel’s absolute faith in Dean and curiosity about humanity, which leads to them slowly dancing around one another and ultimately forming such a strong relationship that the forces of heaven rushed to rip them apart rather than let them realize they could create their own destiny!!! just!!! end me i love it.

They are totally a case of ‘both think the other is way out of their league’ but at the same time don’t expect each other to be perfect, and accept one another for whom they are. And one is a human with the weight of the world on his shoulders, who’s been forced into so much evil that he doesn’t think he’s capable of being loved, and the other is an indescribable force of nature and love that took a human form just to meet him :))))

I’ve long-since moved on from Spn but I’ll always be fond of the dynamic of Cas & Dean.

Steve Rogers/Sam Wilson/Natasha Romanova/Bucky Barnes (and any combination of) from the MCU

My ot4. My loves. CAtWS ruined my life and gave me this dynamic 4-some that are all broken and hurting in one way or another and find some support in each other. They’re all such wonderful characters and the idea that they could find what they need in each other just delights me. I want them all to be happy!!!

Shiro/Ulaz from Voltron: Legendary Defender

This is nearly a crackship, considering Ulaz dies the same episode we meet him.

But Shiro is nearly my ideal character-- someone striving to be good and be solid ground for others in constantly-changing, difficult times-- who also suffered unimaginable hardship and suffering. Shiro’s not a character that we see opens up much, and yet he nearly threw himself at Ulaz when they met. He argued against all possibly logic that Ulaz had to be a friend, had to be trustworthy, and even though the group had never met a friendly Galra at this point, Shiro (who, again, was held captive and tortured for a year by the Galra) was the one who advocated for him.

From there, the best part about them is the potential. Why did Ulaz free Shiro in the first place? What were his intentions? Was he honest in the things he said to Shiro or was he playing a deception and Shiro believed it?

Also, height differences. And alien differences B^J

Jake/Cassie from Animorphs

While Animorphs is primarily a story about the horrors and the consequences of war, it also deals with the rammifications of how the battlefield destroys personal lives as well.

I love all of the Animorphs kids, but we all know Jake is my special darling child. Jake and Cassie are childhood sweethearts that everyone knows like each other. Sometimes they even sit beside each other on the bus!! Even if they don’t know what to say. Just, ah, my darlings. It’s such a sweet setup. They’re going to date, get married, and be happy together forever.

Except, war happens. And Jake is forced to become someone Cassie’s not sure she can love. That’s a lie- I believe Cassie still loves Jake, but she won’t be happy with him.

Jake’s proposal, at the end, when he knows he’s about to paint his hands red with his family’s blood and win the war through attrition, and he hasn’t told anyone else yet... he reflects on all they’ve been through in 3-4 short, long years and who they are and he, he wants to go back. He wants to hope they can still have a happy ending.

Jake and Cassie forever give me heartache because they both did get their best possible ending. And it wasn’t together.

Rachel/Tobias, from Animorphs

How could I talk about Jake&Cassie and not mention these two? The (arguably) beta couple who fell in love with the dichotomy of each other, who loved each other to oblivion. They wrestled with huge issues like Tobias’s body, Rachel’s bloodthirstiness and yet despite it all they loved each other until the end.

He wore a human face so she could see him mourning her before she died. Her last words to him were ‘i love you’ and he carried-- the description that he actually struggled to lift the urn always breaks my heart-- he took her ashes to spread them as his final goodbye. These poor kids didn’t deserve the harsh hand fate dealt them, but they made the best of it with one another.

Derek/Casey from Life with Derek

THEY’RE MEANT TO BE TOGETHER. DON’T LOOK AT ME LIKE THAT. HE’S A REBEL AND SHE’S A GOODY-TWO-SHOES. THEY COMPLETE EACH OTHER.

[they’re also step-siblings thru marriage and IT’S MEANT TO BEEEE]

Rose Tyler/The Doctor/Jack Harkness from Doctor Who (primarily 9th Doctor)

I love the dynamic of these three so much. There’s a huge fondness in my heart for how the three of them normalized what was, the show was hinting at, essentially an open relationship. From the show I believe it was to remain un-consummated and ‘will-they-won’t-they’ but the dialogue and body language of all three always indicated they these three were more than just friends.

More fun with aliens!! You can never go wrong!!! Also, Jack is involved and y’all should understand the huge imact that Jack Harkness had on wee Dem.

Will Graham/Hannibal Lecter from NBC Hannibal

I love the incredibly awful way these two come together, fall apart, and sew themselves up again. I love the dynamics of this show in general. But how refreshing to have leads-- antagonists, often-- who are also in love with each other but also in love with life and morality and the meanging of emotion. These two mainly went into otp status after the ending of Hannibal, in which it was confirmed that the whole series was/is essentially a long, dark, macabre urban fantasy love story/fairytale.

Sora/Kairi/Riku from the Kingdom Hearts series

Again, all childhood best friends who end up in the middle of a war that’s been happening since before they were even born. They were all naiively chasing adventure, and then found themselves seprated across different worlds, part of all sorts of manipulations and, in Riku’s case, eventually falling into darkness trying to protect the other two.

The first game started off almost setting them up to be a gross love triangle, and while elements remain, it’s actually become a story about three friends who adore each other and want to be together and protect one another.

The three of them spent three whole games trying to get back to one another. Sora gave up all of his memories and was locked in a coma for a year, Kairi lost her heart/soul and then her memories (and then she gaind them back because she loved them so much!!!), Riku eventually gave up his own body and became what he feared the most in order to protect Sora and Kairi. The three of them united KNEW Riku even when he had the face of their enemy and they all bawled at being together again and I bawled too.

I love these three so much.

Larka/Kar from The Sight

The Sight is my absolute favorite book of all times and I usually reread it at least once a year.

Romance isn’t the forefront of this story either, but love itself- in all it’s forms- is continuously shown to be one of the strongest forces in the universe.

Larka and Kar endure a lot of ordeals together, and he is pivotal in saving her life several times including her depression after most of her family dies and she is under the impression it is because of her. Kar is the only one who can bring Larka back from the dead! When she travels to the red meadow to gain answers, and wants to stay with her family where she won’t have to suffer anymore. But she returns!! Because Kar pours out his heart and calls her back!!!

And in the end, Larka knows she is going to her own death. And has accepted it. But at the last moment she looks up and sees Kar waiting for her to come back to him, so they can have a life together, and it’s her love for him that makes her fight against fate and destiny to get back to him.

And, to loosely quote the scene because it’s beautiful, “between Larka and the cliff, between hope and fairy tale, stepped reality. What really happens. Larka missed the ledge, and they all watched as she fell towards the rocks below”

And now excuse me while I cry.

#THIS IS!!! SO LONG!!!!#replies #asks #about me #get to know me meme #krakendra

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miyaio · 8 years ago

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desu2!!

desu 2 meta brings out the tl;dr beast in me b/c i’m always thirsty to talk excessively abt this game.

My favorite parent-child relationship

- i think otome and koharu win by default, tho io’s brief scene w/her mother and the background we get on her relationship w/her parents is v heart-wrenching. i love the way otome’s single mom status is depicted–it feels very nuanced and sympathetic, without shying away from the way having parenthood thrust upon her would realistically impact otome’s life and koharu’s. when otome mentions in tri arc that she misses being koharu’s mother, despite how selfish that would be (as it would come in exchange for her cousins’ lives), i teared up, ngl. koharu herself is also really precious, tho i wish we had a consistent appearance for her–it seems to change between vanilla desu 2, ds2a, and tri arc?

runner-up goes to airi and her dad, despite the fact that she thinks he’s dead. the dera-deka sub-arc is well-worth doing at least once, imo. it made me bawl, and it’s also necessary for 100% compendium completion.

My favorite sibling relationship

- can i say saiduq and the other septentriones? yamato and miyako are the only sibs we see onscreen (tho airi mentions having a little brother), but tbh, i’m more interested in miyako’s side than i am in yamato’s. what goes on in the septentriones’ minds–if they even have “minds” as people would perceive the concept–is fascinating to me, and i really wonder what saiduq thinks abt his former “siblings”. does he simultaneously pity and envy them for lacking his autonomy? does he see them as extensions of polaris’ will that deserve to be beaten down by humans? the denizens of the akasha stratum are one of my fav aspects of desu 2′s worldbuilding, so i’m always hungry for meta on them.

My favorite family relationship (other)

- airi and ronaldo in a found family situation……… i love the way their dynamic develops, w/neither one aware of how strong a connection they really share. i do wish we’d had more of them bonding over their memories of airi’s dad (which i’ve always hc’d as happening at least on egalitarian route), but seeing how similar the two of them really are is always cute. airi loves her gay uncle 2k17

My favorite friendship between two people

- uffff this is so hard b/c i like a lot of my ships b/c of their friendships…….. ig i’d make it a tie between hibiki + daichi and jp’s trio’s dynamic as a whole? even tho jp’s trio isn’t two people, haha. one thing i really like abt hibiki in comparison to like, every male protag ever, is that it’s p heavily implied that he’s not popular at all. the one thing ds2a did right was hibiki’s backstory, which i think still fits in w/gameverse!hibiki’s description as someone w/a “blank” past. his friendship w/daichi and the relationships he forms w/the main cast mean a lot more in the context of daichi really being his only close friend at the start of the game, imo. s/t i love abt hibiki + both daichi and io is that their friendships are based on equity, abt hibiki supporting the others and working w/them as equals to help them realize what wonderful ppl they are in their own right, rather than him being the ultra-charismatic authority who’s always Cool and in control. like, this is the guy who has such Serious dialogue options as “RAINBOOOOOOW!!” and “tell everyone yr gay for yamato”. hibiki being really isolated from most ppl aside from daichi feeding into his decision to pursue the human admin end of br is a meta for another time, ig.

jp’s trio’s various relationships are all v interesting, in terms of the spokes of the triangle and all three of them together. it’s really refreshing to see that kind of dynamic between adult women who are professionals–their bond feels a lot less?? transient than it might between yet another group of high schoolers. you get the sense that all three of them being adults is what lets their friendships bloom and be so important to them, as the people they were in high school are hardly the same people they are now. the event in tri arc where fumi and makoto take care of a fatigued otome and tell her that she can lean on them, too, really made an impact on me. all three of them play off of each other so well in a variety of settings, and it lends a v mature, multifaceted air to their dynamic. otome taking a different faction than fumi and makoto, and how different fumi and makoto’s own reasons for joining yamato are, is also worth mentioning in that the three of them aren’t always in agreement, and that’s a part of friendship, too.

My favorite friendship between a group

- team nagoya……… i’ll be the first to say that i dislike both the extremist routes. whether or not the writers intended to make the player feel that way is subjective, and may well depend on where a player falls on the smt alignment continuum, or even on desu 2′s version of that continuum. either way, i at least liked egalitarian better than meritorious b/c team nagoya has such a strong rapport w/one another, compared to the cognitive dissonance-riddled mess that is team osaka. based on their dialogue from any daichi route, the members of team nagoya definitely know they’re not necessarily vying for the best solution to their very legitimate concerns. they’re a lot easier to sympathize with b/c their grievances are very real–as joe says in “dream’s end”, while society may be growing less prejudiced over time, for many people, there is no time to “wait for things to get better”. the problem lies much more in going thru polaris to make a change, as the ending p clearly (and horrifyingly) demonstrates that polaris just uses team nagoya’s passion for its own ends.

at any rate, the interactions between the four of them are great, from ronaldo and airi’s aforementioned dynamic, to joe and otome’s complimentary playful attitudes, to how airi represents the future that all three adults are fighting for. it’s really telling that team nagoya consists of three adults and one teenager–otome puts it most clearly in her post-defeat dialogue on daichi routes when she says that she was fighting desperately (yet short-sightedly) for the future of the world’s children. imo, airi really represents that future to the three adults, as a teenager who has already had so many doors closed in her face due to inequity. airi’s own stubbornness, selective self-flagellation, and issues w/moving on aside, schooling in particular really is s/t that can shape a child’s entire life, and i’m sure ronaldo, joe, and otome realize that. so seeing how well all four of them interact w/each other and how airi represents both the best and the worst of team nagoya’s ideals def makes them my fav faction.

My favorite mentorship

- speaking of airi’s interactions w/the adult cast, makoto + airi is so good….. i love how constructive makoto is w/airi, giving her the tools she needs to move forward in life w/o telling her to get over it, or denying that airi’s been screwed over by forces well beyond her control. makoto’s not a perfect mentor, but (as her name suggests), she’s honest w/airi, and owns up to it when she reacts too harshly. i think it’s great to see makoto helping someone in a way she knows for sure is right, in contrast to how uncertain her cognitive dissonance abt other issues in sep arc must be making her feel. on the flipside, airi gets to begin moving forward w/life again, which in turn contributes to helping her reconsider her own alienating abrasiveness (can you tell i like airi b/c she and severa are so similar……). the moral of airi and makoto’s mentorship isn’t “never ever give up on yr dreams b/c you can only ever have one True goal in life”, nor is it “there’s no need to challenge injustices done unto you b/c if you don’t rock the boat, life will move on eventually”. airi’s sub-arc comes to a more nuanced conclusion, and i don’t think she could’ve gotten there w/o makoto’s influence.

My favorite rivalry

- does hinako and yamato count? i love how often she calls him out, and how she’s not afraid of him in the least. while i doubt yamato sees hinako as much of consequence, she makes her beef w/him plain, w/o going “DIE HOUTSUIN MY JUSTICE IS SCREAMING” ala ronaldo www her voice is much-needed in a lot of situations, too. her confrontation w/yamato over whether or not he cherrypicked the results of the medium compatibility tests to get rid of io is really well-done, esp if you infer that hinako knows abt io’s own disastrous confrontation w/yamato earlier on friday.

My favorite hatred/antipathy

- while i know miyako and yamato don’t straight-up hate each other, their dynamic as enemies (or at least in opposition to one another) is great. i’m not just saying this b/c i love seeing yamato get dragged, i promise–there really is just s/t satisfying abt miyako not taking his shit at all, despite her own cognitive dissonance and his valid points abt the futility of her plan. yamato -> saiduq is also fairly interesting, tho ds2a bloated itself so much w/a tepid exploration of how their dynamic could potentially be explored that i’m not too keen on meta-ing it more. yamato is kind of a hate sink amongst the cast, tbh www saiduq’s own rebel angel-turned-usurper dynamic w/polaris is p unambiguous hatred, but it’s v interesting, given how saiduq feels he has no choice but to die as polaris’ sword on every other route. really seeing him shuck that alcor designation (ppl who call saiduq by that name when he explicitly says he dislikes it still drive me bonkers in 2017) and take up heaven’s throne is v satisfying.

My favorite potential relationship between characters who never talk in canon

- do u have a moment to talk abt how we were robbed of more io-joe interactions……… if anyone’s actually read this far, you probably do lmao in any event, i think this is mostly a limitation of how the fate system is constructed, and you can see the writers stretching and experimenting w/it in tri arc. if future desu games expand into s/t like fe’s support system, where you can see the fate system-equivalents between all characters, sometimes w/o the protag even present, i think that’d be a great step forward. i bring this up for one area in particular where i really wanted to see more joe-io interactions: on tuesday, after io’s parents die. joe has a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it line in his own fate system w/hibiki abt how his own parents are dead, but it’s not framed in a more genre-typical “tragic orphan backstory” way. it really raises the question about when someone whose parents have died is too old to be called an orphan, given that joe is only 25.

this dialogue suggests that the losses are then fairly recent, tho joe writes them off w/his patent-pending brand of escape-avoidance. for all his flakiness (his term), tho, joe really does try to fill a big brother role for tokyo trio, and this is where i think he and io could have some v fruitful interactions. i think that most of the cast isn’t really faced w/the immediacy of the high likelihood that their families are dead, w/the exception of chars like joe, jungo, airi, and keita, who all lose parents prior to the game. io, on the other hand, watches her mother die in her arms. she displays astounding resilience and focus in how quickly she draws herself back together after the loss, despite her r5 confirming that she had pretty constant suicidal ideation throughout the rest of the week (and quite possibly before the game, too). as joe is the closest to io out of the four aforementioned characters at that point in the game, i really, really would’ve loved to see his take on providing her comfort and guidance in the wake of her sudden loss. i think it would’ve been a good set of conversations for both of them, especially if you buy into the reading that both joe and io let themselves die should the player fail to prevent their death clips. in this respect, i’m interested in the similarities between joe and io, and i think a good heart-to-heart between them early on in the game would’ve led to a variety of other interactions.

#usamimi desu

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tremendouscollectiondreampo-blog · 6 years ago

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michaelmullen · 8 years ago

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FB Post about the scientific consensus in climate change

Here's a link to start, forst posted courtesy of T. Wagner: http://billmoyers.com/2014/05/16/eight-pseudo-scientific-climate-claims-debunked-by-real-scientists/

A friend was heckling the idea of anthropogenic climate change. Especially the 97 percent consensus theory. I wrote this: Ok, first, the consensus question. You're right, it's not 99 percent, it's "97-98 percent of climate scientists most actively publishing in their field" instead! Lol. I found a better source than this oft referenced opinion poll that is the go-to donkey that gets tails pinned on it by ACC skeptics. Seems to me part of the problem with that particular study that Larry Bell skewers is that it's an opinion poll the questions of which could be variously interpeted. So I found a rigorous study of the writings of scientists on the subject of climate change in peer reviewed journals. This is an abstract on a study of expert credibility and climate change: http://m.pnas.org/content/107/27/12107.full This is the best kind of objective scientific assessment. This article takes a rigorous approach to examination of the climate debate among scientists by looking at peer reviewed journals, and this looks to me like a very even handed approach to answering the questions 'what do scientists think about the climate change question', and 'what is the relative credibility of scientists in the debate'. It addresses these questions by examining papers published in peer review journals. It is exhaustively foot noted (a nicety which Mr. Bell does not bother with in his opinion pieces), the study sets standards and baselines for what constitutes credibility, prominence, and expertise in the scientific community generally and the climate research community specifically. The study also makes a distinction between researchers who are in the field of climate studies and those who are not, but it crunches it's numbers both ways and makes it clear that the results aren't significantly different either way. Please read the whole thing through at least once. I read it through entirely twice, and then double and triple checked certain sections. TK

So that friend of mine said that he read the PNAC article,but then he said a number of things about it which indicated to me he had not read it. Here’s my response: TK Are you sure you read that whole paper? They didn't ask any questions. The paper detailed a comparative study of the climate expertise and scientific prominence of researchers either Convinced or Unconvinced of ACC, and it utilizes their publication and citation data to make the comparisons. It's very clear. Maybe I misunderstood your point in the comment you entered at 2:12pm yesterday(Monday)? There were no questions asked of any researchers by the people that authored that paper. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you think that science does not involve consensus?! The reason most people on earth think the world is round these days is because of broad scientific consensus that supports that theory, going back a couple thousand years to astronomers in Persia or something, but supported by additional data starting in about 1492. The theory that is addressed in the paper is detailed: all the researchers examined in the study had "membership on multisignitory statements about ACC" either pro or con. In other words, they all signed statements, either in support of or in opposition to, "the tenets of ACC outlined by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change". So at that point the position of every scientist is delineated clearly: they either support the IPCC declaration about ACC or they don't. I see no confusion there. Then the study goes on to examine the climate expertise and prominence of each researcher. The study that i made available for you to look at--which directly addresses the %99 thing that I want to discuss--makes not a single mention of the Mann hockey stick, nor did it make any mention of the pros or cons of carbon fuels. It deals solely with measuring agreement within the scientific community on the question of climate change and whether human action is largely responsible for the change in climate we are currently experiencing. I'm sorry, but the ONLY way we are going to be able to address this is to keep focused. The study makes no mention of carbon fuels, fertilizers, insecticides, moral consequences of climate change, possible impacts on the transportation sector, possible damage to the economy due to possible failed post carbon fuel innovations. No, this study addresses exactly one thing, the level of agreement or disagreement among climate scientists on the subject of anthropogenic climate change. And the study addresses this subject exhautively, thoroughly, and rigorously. And since that is the question I raised, that is what I am finishing this post on. Near the end of the Results and Discussion section of the study--right before the Materials and Methods section--is a paragraph that acts as a summary of the study's findings. The following quote is the majority of that paragraph: "We provide a large-scale quantitative assessment of the relative level of agreement, expertise, and prominence in the climate researcher community. We show that the expertise and prominence, two integral components of overall expert credibility, of climate researchers convinced by the evidence of ACC vastly overshadows that of the climate change skeptics and contrarians. This divide is even starker when considering the top researchers in each group. Despite media tendencies to present both sides in ACC debates (9), which can contribute to continued public misunderstanding regarding ACC (7, 11, 12, 14), not all climate researchers are equal in scientific credibility and expertise in the climate system". And to further drive home the point, I took this quote from the Abstract at the beginning of the paper: "Here, we use an extensive dataset of 1,372 climate researchers and their publication and citation data to show that (i) 97–98% of the climate researchers most actively publishing in the field surveyed here support the tenets of ACC outlined by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and (ii) the relative climate expertise and scientific prominence of the researchers unconvinced of ACC are substantially below that of the convinced researchers." I will address Mr. Bell's op-ed next.

This was supposed to be the first of a few stabs at taking on Larry Bell’s piece. I never got around to finishing: it takes a long time and alot of work, and I wasn’t sure my frien was reading the stuff I was putting up. Anyway, here it is: Ok. Addressing a few issues of content in Larry Bell's Forbes opinion piece: Before I begin, i find Larry Bell's opinion piece to have a number of instances of dismissiveness, arrogance, and sarcasm. This is disappointing since I have been given to understand lately that dismissive arrogant sarcasm was the specific specialty of The Left. Lol Mr. Bell implies that nothing g of value came out of the $5m that the NAS used for the 2007 study. From the Proceedings of the Nat'l Academy of Sciences Here are a few papers published based on the 2007 NAS study referenced in Larry Bell's opinion piece --Irreversible Climate Change Due To Carbon Dioxide Emissions http://m.pnas.org/content/106/6/1704.abstract --Adapting Agriculture To Climate Change: http://m.pnas.org/content/104/50/19691.short --Global Food Security Under Climate Change: http://m.pnas.org/content/104/50/19703.short --Here is the top Google link that leads to all the rest: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=0... After i started looking thru it I realized the extent of what I was looking at. I paged thru and scanned the titles. Not a single title duplication over 100 titles. These are the results of the studies which sprang out of the $5,800,000 spent by the NAS in 2007. That looks like money well spent, given that scientific research is expensive. On the other hand, 5 million wouldn't even have bought an F15 when I was in the USAF in the '80s. In terms of government expenditure that ain't much at all. The National Academy of Sciences is one of the most trusted sources of scientific study and literature in the world, all of its studies are peer review studies, which means that if you are a scientist publishing a paper on something, then other scientists who aren't necessarily your friends or allies (in fact they are frequently in competition with each other for prestige, recognition, credibility, etc) check your work. The essence of the peer review process is constructive criticism. The notion that scientists--whose work has to endure the close scrutiny of knowledgeable fellow scientists--can't handle constructive criticism is outright funny. That's like an NFL quarterback having a 5-year-old style fuss because all those big meanie linebackers are trying to scare him. TK

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