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gender-chaotic · 4 years ago

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Oh boy b**tleba*bes talking about stuff they have no clue about lmao

Warning talk mentions of b**tleb*bes, over sexualization of minors, and a bit of adult stuff.

Im goldenbeetle shipper whos been here a while now and is a proud drinker of loving barbara maitland juice not gonna deny our community has some issues mostly in the past with leaving babs out of fics and art and focus more on adam and beej as well as more adult content. But this is something myslef and many people IN OUR OWN COMMUNITY has been speaking out about for a long ass time now you can search the tags for posts adressing leaving Barbara out including by myself so jot that down, so we dont need b**tleb*bes who barley know anything about our community telling us about our content especially when some of y'all openly mock our ship and made it clear you do not care about it, thanks. many of us especially more recently add barbara in, ive seen so much goldenbeetle content that includes babs including again my own content, ive purposefully drawn solo babs and beej so if you're saying there no content that includes her or just beej and her you're very VERY wrong, come to me or most shippers we can provide lots of golden beetle content with babs and even just babs and beetlejuice. Not to mention a few of your own b**tleb*bes have made beetlejuice and adam content and usually leaves Barbara out and focuses just on adam and beej but go off i guess lol.

Many people draw barbara also draw her based off her actresses' who are both women who don't have very large breasts on top of that gena davis' dress for Barbara did not reveal much, kerry's showing a bit more with a deep neckline still covered alot of her body. Many people arent drawing babs with big knockers and sexy clothes because were trying to repress her sexuality and make her dress like she's in the handmaids tale, shame women for being sexy, its because barbara and adam are canonically a white bred suburban couple who are "vanilla" its their personailty, i drew babs with smaller breasts and more "canon compliant" for a while before i changed it up. Obviously you CAN draw barabra and even adam as sexy and babs with big tiddies, i draw barbara with larger breasts now, and show her cleavage and I've been doing this for a while and i have draw PLENTY of sexy and pin up style babs as well adult content with her beetlejuice, and adam, I've also posted it on here so again y'all dont know what you're talking about. I know others who have drawn sexy barbara and barbara with larger breasts just because its not common and YOU haven't seen it doesn't mean its not out there.

Have y'all seen art of anyone oc's like including self ship oc's with beej?? many of them are sexy and/or have pretty bug breasts (not complaini g btw yall are doing gr8 i love your oc's) or other adult female characters in the show I've seen of art thats sexy of miss Argentina and delia as well as art of them with larger breasts and dressed more "sexy" because that's their character, dress more revealing and prefer to be "sexy". Ive also never been attacked or seen any other "anti" attack a creator for making sexy art or big breasted versions of female characters that are canonically adults in beetlejuice, this includes myself who has openly posted suggestive content of babs even on here infact Ive seen people actually like that stuff they just don't make it themselves so claiming "no one is allowed" to draw barbara sexy or adult content of her is also a huge load.

Not to get too personal but speaking from experience as a person who developed at a very early age i got my first real bra at 7 or 8, had D-DDD breasts throughout middle school and highschool, currently has g-h cup breasts, has been overly sexualized my entire life by people of all ages because of this, and also deals with ALOT of dysphoria because of It am A-ok with representation of women with larger breasts, including suggestive/sexual art of them, women of all body types including their breasts but that's the thing i highly doubt y'all care about large breasted women I've seen the argument when talking about the over sexualiztion of large breasts

"well you dont care about women with big breasts we exist too!"

"Dont erase our body breasts!"

I get it! But its pretty clear this argument is usually only being presented to tokenize us and then someone will draw a big tiddied lady with wide as birthing hips, a dumpster truck ass, back that looks like it son the verge of breaking, and a waist that varies from size skinny to "holy sh*t did all your organs get sucked out???" If yall really care about women with big breasts draw women of differing body types with big breasts, draw them chubby, fat, ACTUALLY curvy, give them stretch marks, a double chin, ect. You fucking cowards say were mysoginists for "not giving barbara big tiddies"

Most of b**tleb*abe adult lydia art looks like a mix of jessica rabbit, elvira, and morticia addams with the same 2 or 3 body types over and over again, infact ive run into plenty of b**tleb*bes art where lydia has either has big tits or like a B-ish cup ("aged up" lydia thats looks almost exactly like her teenage self canon(s)) not really an inbetween but you "totally care about women with large breasts" its not tat you only care about adult lydia to make her ooc, project onto her and make her to sexy goth queen many of us wanted to be when we were young and watched beetlejuice, ship her with beej so she can be his big tiddy goth gf its TOTALLY about ""feminism"" uh huh....

And where has YOUR sexy barbara art been hmm? b**tleb*bes draw so little art of barbara or either maitlands other than to be in the background and react to beej and lyida's shenanigans, or scold them because babes portray the maitlands or way more protective and prude than in canon, and the little art I've seen babes draw of her isn't sexy big tiddy babs. I have at most seen a handful of deetzland fics with adult content including barbara and that's it. Its very clear many of yall care mostly about lydia and beej especially boinking be honest now. So dont bring up our ship or barbara as a "gotcha antis".

And lastly Lydia, i dont think any of us are saying she cant grow up, we literally just think its gross to sexualize a character who is a minor in canon and age her up solely to be with a canon adult. Ive seen "antis" draw adult lydia in a tasteful way and develop her as she grows up because they're interested in her charcter and no one has taken issue with it at all. Lydia in all canons doesnt have big honkers in any canon either, yes minors can have breasts, even larger ones. I mentioned above that was me, and you can have a character who is a minor who looks more developed than others where its not gross and sexualized (jackie lynn thomas from svtfoe is an example, mami from madoka isnt really sexualized in canon from my memory) i think representaion of all body types abd breast sizes is important for young women but lydia isnt one of those characters even in canons where shes 15-17 and going through puberty.

Let lydia be a child jfc, stop being creepy and getting pissy when people draw lyida with the same breast cup in canon and make her look like the average teen/tween she is, that isnt misogyny its treating a character who is a minor appropriately.

The ACTUAL misogyny is over sexualizing and aging up a tween/teen character soley to do the horizontal monster mash with a adult charcter, write her so that she really only cares about said adult character and the spawn that pop out of her from him, she dies young but parents and friends who cares shes got beetlejuice!, Forget the entire life she leaving behind too, and giving her the body of a pixar mom or h*ntai protagonist a majority of the time.

Your performative white feminism is showing.

#beetlejuice #beetlejuice the musical #oops opinion time #oops opinion time!#fandom discourse #beetlejuice discourse #discourse #ship discourse #shipping discourse #sorryfor the rant/popping #working on requests and art #but rae darkemess demntia raven way openei #opened* her mouth to spew more word diarehha

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let-me-make-you-proud · 5 years ago

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Tangled: The Series Q&A with Kait.

This is a recapitulation from today’s (September 14, 2019) Questions and Answers session with Kait on the Tangled Discord Server.

Q: Which Disney princesses outside of Tangled the series can you see Varian being friends with? Nonfranchise ones included.

A: I think Belle is the first one who comes to mind!! She’s super studious and goes against the grain…not to mention her father is an inventor who’s a little off-base! 🙂 I think he’d be super comfortable experimenting with Belle and her dad and reading awesome stories! (Maybe even sharing the Tales of Flynn Rider with her! …Assuming she hasn’t read it! Haha. ) He could also eat ham sandwiches with Anna. Sorry. Second thought. Lol!!

Q: So Kait, as a storyboard artist on the show what kind of little details, quirks or creative touches did you or any other artists put into Varian scenes you or others storyboarded?

A: Ha!! Any acting scene with Varian I had…I pretty much based off of Anna Lencioni (my best friend/ another board artist on the show.) Anna makes these very specific expressions and she gestures to herself a lot and closes her eyes and creases her brows and says things like “A-huh! Actually…” or “Um!!” Before making a point and it’s always reminded me of him.

She kept a “flynnolium” prop from Halloween with green goo in a vial in her cubicle at work so long it grew mold. She said she was studying it. She found scrap metal in her boot one day. She has a basement lab for her experiments and crafts. She befriended two raccoons at her last apartment. She is the most accident-prone person with freckles I’ve ever met…she’s pretty much him.

Jeremy Jordan’s reads give you so much to work with…and I love that character so much I feel a natural sort of understanding of how he might say something or do something…but Anna would always do these specifically Anna things that I had to use for Varian.

Q: Do you have any specific advice for aspiring storyboard artists or people who aspire to work in animation?

A: Gestural drawings help you learn to draw fast…which is a very important part of storyboarding. I would say storyboarding‘ s biggest requirements are clarity and speed. Lots of productions have different requirements in terms of what they look for from story artists. Tangled‘s leadership cared a lot about drawing skill, animation, layout, etc. because it more strongly informed the animation studio to have those things. The show I’m working on now (Monsters at Work) is a 3D show…so for our production, the emphasis is more on story and speed. We pitch ideas more than we pitch drawings…so clarity is important and acting is too, but we’re far less precious about tying down drawings and animating since we shift into the 3D production pipeline after story. The boards are still very important…but the more technical aspects are a *little* less so. The focus is just more on story and character and what the board artists can bring to their scenes.

So I’d say just practice drawing…maybe try and give someone a prompt or ask a friend for one. Choose a theme! Maybe vampires? What’s the worst thing that could happen to a vampire? What’s the best thing? What’s the funniest thing? What if they were also an alien? Or fused with a werewolf? Or chained to one? What would happen? Giving yourself a starting point for an idea will inspire you to explore all the possibilities for humor, drama, etc. in that idea. If you’re struggling to give yourself a prompt, try looking online…or maybe choosing a song you like or a passage from a book for inspiration.

There’s also this really fun thing you can do to study cinematography and shot composition called a “three tone” exercise. Basically…put on your favorite (live action) film, grab a sketchbook, grab a black and grey marker, and use the white of the page for your third tone. What you wanna do is (as you’re watching or while pausing) sketch a small thumbnail using only three grey tones of what you see on the screen. Draw the shot- where the characters are, try and duplicate the lighting…it teaches you a lot! 🙂 (Phew!)

Q: Do you have any fun non-spoiler head canons about Varian?

A: I think his favorite dessert is apple pie and I think he bakes recreationally very often! He’s probably a good cook. (Though he may have one or two minor accidents……a burnt thing here and there. Minor oil splatters….haha!!)

Q: What’ve been your favorite episodes, both to storyboard and in general? Of course, no specifics if it’s S3

A: Haha! Well…What The Hair and Queen for A Day have special places in my heart because they were such big moments for my favorite character…(Varian, haha.) But I’d say the episodes I had the most fun boarding are all in season 3!!! Which is exciting! I have to start compiling some work to post! 🙂 I think the episode I had the most fun with is one you guys will really enjoy.

Q: Will we get some interesting surprises (In Season 3)?

A: Without any spoilers- absolutely!! The show is always full of those.

Q: So We’ve heard many fans express why they love Varian as a charcter before, I’d love to know what drew you and Anna to Varian as well and why you guys personally found him to be a great character.

A: When Shane Prigmore originally pitched the character to me, he was much younger. He was like 11 or so, I think? Maybe 12? He’s still pretty young…but what Shane said was that he wanted him to go from this wide-eyed kid to this dark, angry person whose bangs fell over those wide, bright eyes…just full of rage. That idea was super interesting to me…it just hit on something in character development that I felt like I’d never exactly seen before? He was so young and it was such an interesting idea to me to make a child the villain and to give that child a strong reason to be angry? It felt like it was taking this child very seriously, which I appreciate. It felt very real and very dark.

The thing that threw me through a loop but also evolved my fascination with the character was Jeremy Jordan’s casting. I listened to a lot of the auditions they had for various actors and I had seen a ton of Shane’s concept art of the character…a lot of them were VERY different than what we have now. One version Ricky Roxburgh (writer) contributed to had Varian cast as an adult in the story. But when I heard Jeremy I felt like I totally understood who Varian really was.

He was a well-intentioned disaster with unchecked emotions. That. Is me! Haha!! I see myself in his imperfections, his emotionality in spite of his creative and often intellectual thinking. He wants to ascend to these levels he may not be ready to ascend to…he feels this need to prove himself and seek validation. I don’t know, I guess I relate to that! And I’m just a sucker for good guys gone bad. The other half of this, of course, is that he’s very charming and cute and super reminds me of my best friend, Anna Lencioni.

Q: Which character do you most like seeing interacting with Varian?

A: It’s a little spoilery for me to reveal that……..but I think you guys are gonna know when it happens! Haha!

I can’t wait to post THOSE boards

That’s actually right out of the episode I think I liked boarding the most, haha.

Q: If there was one prop (furniture, object, the like) from the Tangled series that could be made real and you could keep, what would it be..?

A: I think it’d have to be those little alchemy orbs that Varian throws? They just suddenly clean the whole castle hallway somehow and like…could use me some of that. He also has the one that removes stains from tablecloths, so. I’m sloppy. That’d be a big help. Haha!

Also his staff is pretty cool 😉, I boarded/created that staff…David Lee (prop designer) did its final design…haha

Q: I have a question about a scene in season 1. When Varian got back the first part of the scroll he mentioned that it took him a while to translate it. Has he really been able to read it or has it been a bluff?

A: Varian can indeed translate what’s on the scroll. 😉

Q: Do you have any networking advice for those trying to get into the animation industry?

A: Post your work!! Make it easily accessible, tag it well, just show what you’ve got online! Upload boards, animatics, drawings, etc. Creating an online presence can really help put your name out there. Apply for internships, jobs. I know it’s hard to network because a lot of industry professionals don’t have time to answer specific questions or give portfolio reviews…so it’s sort of important to take some initiative on that and be self-motivated.

For me, I studied the portfolios of Disney feature story artists, CalArts students, etc. and tried to structure the presentation of my work based on that. Also, it helped me get a sense of what pieces of work would best showcase where I was trying to go and what I was trying to do. I’d ask yourself those questions as you develop a portfolio and artistic voice online! 🙂

My first feature job after a trainee program in New York at Blue Sky happened because Doug Sweetland (Pixar animator, feature director, awesome dude) found my work online and liked it. He just reached out based on that!

Shane Prigmore actually reached out to me for Tangled similarly.

Q: Besides Varian, do you have a favorite character that you’ve boarded?

A: I always love Eugene. He’s the second character I think I’m most like. His acting was really fun to play with and I felt like I could push his expressions a lot because he’s so funny. I loved boarding Lance too (I boarded a lot of Lance in S3!!) but MAN was he hard to draw, haha! His face shape is just really hard to draw at certain angles.

Q: With Varian cosplay that is going on, what Disney character would you like to see Varian dress up as next?

A: Jack Skellington! Halloween is afoot. Jack is another well-intentioned disaster. Guess I have a type!

Q: What’s Varian’s opinion on raccoons, are they his favourite animal?

A: I imagine it’s because Ruddiger is always finding interesting things in the trash and giving them to Varian to use in his experiments. Also, they’re fat and cute.

Q: There’s a bit of an argument going on over how many freckles Varian has. Can you confirm how many he has?

A: Ha!!! Yes…one second… 14!!

Q: How big do you think Corona is? Like Vatican City small or Arendelle big?

A: You know, with the wall and all, it actually feels a little on the smaller side to me? I’m sure there’s a little bit of discrepancy between the movie’s version of Corona and our version…but based on where we went within Corona on the show, I’d say it feels on the smaller side.

Q: Are there any non-spoiler Varian scenes or moments that didn’t make the cut that you can share?

A: MAN. Yes. There is one scene that changed after I rolled off the episode and I’m very sad about it. I’ll post it after the episode airs! There was also a line of Varian’s that I boarded to a specific read from Jeremy Jordan and that read was not chosen in editorial later so…I’ll post that one too, haha!

Q: What is your favourite song from the first two seasons so far?

A: All my favorite songs are in season threeeeee…hahahaha!! I think Let Me Make You Proud or the Buddy Song are my favorites. Buddy Song still gets stuck in my head now and then.

Q: What do you think Varian would order at a drive-thru? Specifically at chipotle 😂

A: Chipotle isn’t a drive thru!! Hahaha He’d get the kid’s quesadilla from chipotle. I think Varian is a fries/chips kind of person…something to snack on while he works! He probably also likes milkshakes.

Q: (Continuation from the question above) Chocolate or vanilla?

A: He’d revolutionize by combining them both. FOR SCIENCE!

Q: What is, in your opinion, the most challenging part of varian’s design to draw?

A: His goggles, hahaha. Or just his…hair in general.

Well it’s funny too because when you board these guys, you get used to doing a shorthand for them and then when you go to draw them FOR REAL you realize how complicated that actually is and how wrong your shorthand actually was? Hahahaha

Q: is Varian ticklish at all?

A: I feel like Varian, Eugene, and Lance are all equally ticklish. To the point of absurdity. Cass would fight it as long as she could…but when it finally got to her, she’d laugh uncontrollably. Rapunzel, she’s the TICKLER.

Q: What do you think Varian opinion and belief on magic is now that he’s seen it with his own eyes?

A: I imagine that he certainly believes in it now and no longer underestimates its powers…but I imagine he’s ultimately more comfortable staying in his own lane and working with worldly properties!

Q: If Varian would have been able to meet Demanitus…how would their conversation had looked like?

A: I feel like Varian would have had a TON of questions about his legendary device and whether or not he truly traveled dimensions.

Q: Did Varian have any other friends in old Corona before he met rapunzel?

A: Probably not many…he’s a bit of a hermit. I think Ruddiger is his best friend……. It’s sad but I also think that’s kind of why it hurt so bad when Rapunzel wasn’t able to help him. Also why he was SO excited to have Rapunzel, Cass, and Eugene come visit.

I think the village looked at Varian as a little unstable or worrisome. I’m sure everyone knew he was very nice…but they were likely very unnerved by his inventions.

Q: Do you think Varian ever tried to synthesise gold or the elixir of life like a real alchemist?

A: I’ve wondered that myself!! I think his alchemy has proven to be more about other people…helping others, making people proud. Maybe if someone he cared about was in need.

Q: If you were to meet Varian in real life, what would you say to him?

A: What elixir did you make to get THAT kind of volume? His hair’s so POOFY! Honestly, I’d probably just give him a hug.

Q: How much does Varian know or remember about his mom?

A: I’d say about as much as the photo of her on the wall.

Q: Is there spoiler about his hair streak? Or is it just by design?

A: It’s totally by design. I think it’s safe to assume it’s probably the result of some lab accident!

Q: In what ways is Jeremy Jordan like Varian?

A: I don’t know Jeremy Jordan personally, haha! But I think a lot of these inflections he adds to Varian sort of off the cuff probably come very naturally to him. I know he often wants to do his own pass at the musical arrangement Alan Menken writes…like he’ll want to do something a little different, in his own way, and it will change the song completely!! In an awesome way. That’s a little Varian-esque. In the “Let Me Make You Proud” reprise…Alan Menken had sung that “they are going to pay…they…will…pay” all in a low, downward tone. Jeremy wanted to scream it and make it powerful and angry and loud when he said “PAY” and you could just hear the spite in his voice for the “they will pay.” Genius!

Q: What was the most shocking moment/revelation of the series to you (minus anything season 3)?

A: It’s hard to say because I knew most of what was going to happen long, long ago. I think one of the things that made me go “oh dang!” was something Tom Canfield boarded. It’s that part in Destinies Collide where Lance slices the entire statue down the middle with a sword. What a BAMF!

Q: What were your thoughts on the early concept of Varian having an apple orchard and being a farm kid instead of a young alchemist?

A: He still kinda has those things! Quirin is a farmer as well as the village leader and there are apples on their little farm estate! 🙂 I think that makes Varian very unassuming as a mad little scientist. I’m sure that’s how (Ruddiger and Varian) met! Remember, he used his purple tacky goo stuff to catch raccoons so they wouldn’t eat the crops! And Ruddiger’s favorite snack is apples. 😉

Q: What is his official height and weight?

A: Smol.

Q: How did you guys come up with Varian’s name? And was there any other name suggestions for him before the name ‘Varian’ was chosen?

A: I’m not sure who came up with that name, actually! I’m sure it has something to do with the meaning of the word “variant” which means something that varies, changes in form.

Q: What’s his last name?

A: His last name!! I have NO idea and it bothers me!!! A Disney magazine referred to Varian, Ruddiger, and Quirin as “The Ruddiger Family” and I still haven’t stopped laughing about that.

Q: What sad Disney movie moments would make him cry?

A: Oof. Lion King.

Q: What musicals do think Varian would enjoy?

A: Little Shop of Horrors! I think he’d see himself in Seymour! Or Wicked…you know, that villain arc.

Q: How did Arianna and Fred meet?

A: I actually don’t know off the top of my head!

Q: Would Varian enjoy rollercoasters?

A: I think he’d enjoy how they’re MADE and then scream his head off while riding one, throw up his cotton candy and corndog, and go play carnival games instead. Then get mad that they’re rigged.

Q: So what comes next for you now that the series is almost over? Any big plans?

A: Well the series wrapped for production a while ago! I’ve been on another show for almost a year now! 🙂 I’m working on the new Disney+ show Monsters at Work as a director! It’s an awesome, awesome show…totally next-level…I’m shocked that I’m getting to be apart of something like this. It’s a direct sequel to the movie that serves as an office comedy (a la The Office, Parks and Rec) and has so many characters that fit immediately into the Monsters Inc world. Monsters Inc is my favorite Pixar movie…so I literally come to work and leave work on the same high! It’s an awesome, awesome show with a great crew! 🙂 It’s also just really exciting to be apart of the first original animated property for D+!

Q: How would you compare working as a director to working as a storyboard artist?

A: It’s hard work, just as hard, but in a different way! For me personally, I’m a little easily fatigued by drawing? I get a little creatively frustrated because my thoughts move quicker than my hand. Or because I don’t always feel like I can execute in a drawing what I’m thinking in the way that I want? Part of that is just being an artist…and it’s not ALL the time that I feel that way…but I think I have a certain stamina for drawing that I found challenging to increase.

Directing is just different! It has a lot more to do with managing a team, communication, coordinating, listening, speaking up, problem-solving, being very aware of story as it applies to ALL parts of a production. I don’t draw as often anymore. You have to consider a lot more…more people, more constraints, more difficulties, more opinions, more solutions…it’s just MORE. And you also still have to draw! 🙂 It’s very busy work, but it’s AMAZING and I love it. I feel like I’m contributing to animated storytelling a lot more in this role, actually. I love working with people, I love workshopping, and I love helping! I’m also just spoiled to be working with some great people right now. It’s a blast.

Q: Are any Tangled: The Series crew joining you on that show?

A: Yes!! Tom Caufield and Wendy Sullivan were on it for a minute, but they’ve both moved on to Dreamworks recently! James Suhr (board artist), Isabelle Gedigk (season 3 board artist), Naomi Hicks and Casey Coffey (revisionists), David Lee (props), Ricky Roxburgh (writer), and I are all working together again! It’s awesome.

Q: Does Varian, deep down, blame himself for the amber?

A: I believe he does.

Q: How do you deal with artist’s block?

A: I try to think about the intention behind what I’m doing. Why is the scene I’m working on very important to the story? If it feels unimportant or boring, how can I make it interesting? What can I do on my end to make it more inspiring or fun without going too far off the rails and still serving the scene’s purpose?

If it’s not work-related, I try and start with some fan art or something familiar for me to draw. I have a lot of scribbly Varians in the margins of a lot of my sketch documents. I use him as a warm-up a lot. It helps build my confidence to draw something familiar/ that I think I can draw pretty well.

Q: What’s the hardest scene you’ve ever had to board?

A: Oh God. ANYTHING with action. I’m not an action gal. Lots of stuff in S3. I was board partners with Wendy Sullivan and ended up getting a lot of action to board even though she’s WAY better at it than me!! It was an interesting challenge…but it was very, very challenging. Ben (Co-EP) was a great mentor to me in the scene I did for the mid season. He was very patient with me, despite my shortcomings as an action board artist, haha. I enjoy boarding for comedy much more.

Kait: Anyways, I should probably head off now! Thank you guys so much for all the questions!!!! You’re awesome! I hope you’re all super excited for S3! It’s a great one.

#tangled #tangled the series #rapunzel's tangled adventure #varian #Q&A #Tangled crew #Question & Answers #Kait #ruddiger #Rapunzel #Eugene #Lance #Cassandra

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bellatrixobsessed1 · 4 years ago

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There is really no comparison with Iroh though. He is an adult charcter (even in his 50s perhaps) Fully stable and confident functioning adult. Is any adult going to take seriously a messed up teenager yelling at them? (esp since he knows exactly why Zuko is this way and sincerely wants to help him). You just can't compare a kid acting up in fron of an adult and kid being kind of abusive to the other kid. That's not the same kind of damage at all.

So I got like 6 anons at the same time. I’m not sure if they’re all from the same person but I’m going to respond as if they are. Also screeches at tumblr for their word count because it makes it so much harder to answer long asks lol.

For reference; here’s the rest of the ask I put it in italics (they’re in reversed order);

The hardest thing though for Katara and Azula to become close is that she needs to understand Azula's background to or give her. But seeing Katara look sorrowful when Azula broke down at the end... it showed me that she started understanding Azula. Katara likes to heal people unconditionally and compassionately and Azula would be the type of person she wants to help make better, especially because Katara understands what it feels like to see that darker side of yourself and confront it

Anonymous said: Both Katara and Zuko are Azula's foil so either one of them is good. Her brother Zuko and girlfriend katara as her new family ;D. But reallly... Katara and Azula would learn the most from each other since they are perfect complements.

Anonymous said: Sokka would be too guarded as a person, however I really think Katara would help Azula a lot. She's the most compassionate and open member of the Gaang. She's also Azula's foil. She open with her feelings as a person while Azula is guarded. She can teach Azula to express herself more and give her emotional connection. At the same time though, Katara knows when Azula goes too far and can stop her. This is why I also love shipping them together because they are the perfect foils for each other.

Anonymous said: and emotionally scared and manipulated him the most out of anyone hes met but eventually I think they too would become friends once Sokka realizes that they share a lot fo similarities (but this is also the hardest friendship to develop). Azula, Tooh, and Katara would become an awesome girl squad though and Zuko's annoying little sisters :D

Anonymous said: I always thought that Toph and Azula would be the closest friends post canon out of everyone in the Gaang. Aang and Azula would eventually come around though I think it would be hard for Azula to respect Aang's carefree and forgiving mindset. Azula would also become friends with Katara once Katara understand what Azula's been through and shes the most compassionate person. Sokka and Azula are probably the least likely considering Azula put his girlfriend in jail.

That’s also fair but I think that to a degree it’s the sentiment that counts. By this I mean that Zuko exhibited some of the same toxic tendencies. And that he tended to lash out and bite at people who helped him. If we go with 50′s for Iroh’s age wouldn’t that make it elder abuse? Just because Iroh is an adult doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have feelings. This is kind of a silly example but if you watch shows like Dr. Phil, you see examples of teens that absolutely terrify their parents. I’m not saying that Zuko is on this level but. I am saying that it’s still not right for him to constantly verbally berate Iroh. It doesn’t matter how old or stable you are, if someone is constantly talking down to or about you, you’re not gonna feel too good.

But taking the opposite approach (saying that it is fine for Zuko to verbally lash out at Iroh because he’s an adult) I then I have to ask; why is it okay/taken seriously for Ursa to be afraid of child Azula? So many people side with Ursa who is also a stable adult and say that Azula should have been written off for being mean to Ursa. And at that point Azula is a younger child. But it’s no big deal when Zuko lashes out at Iroh?

I just sometimes feel like there’s this massive double standard when it comes to the siblings. It sometimes seems like Azula gets demonized for the things that Zuko gets a pass for. If it were Azula who had burned Kyoshi Island and sent an assassin after the gaang, people would drag her name through hell for it. Zuko seems to get let off the hook.

I’ll also extend this point by saying that Zuko also lashed out at Azula. Where Azula was mentally abusive to Zuko, Zuko was physically abusive. He usually always tossed the first fireball. In (I think) The Guru he challenges her to an Agni Kai that she rejects. Basically it’s not just one sided. And both siblings are not particularly healthy for each other.

As far as Toph and Azula goes, I think that they’d probably become friends first like you said. I just feel like their sarcasm and dry humor would help forge a friendship. And Toph wouldn’t really take any of her shit. So it kinda just works. But she doesn’t have the wise mentor thing going on. I think that Aang would be a logical follow; he’s very kind and forgiving. But I can see Azula taking advantage of that to a degree. So I think that maybe Aang and Toph tag teaming helping Azula could work. And then like you said, I can see Katara warming up next. Since Aang trusts her I think that’d help Katara do so, plus she’s got the mom instinct. And yeah, I think Sokka would still be a bit bitter and hesitant.

But honestly I think that this order would change depending on the circumstance in which her redemption would be written. And I also think that all of the above would come after she’s already started a redemption arc. As mentioned, I think that Azula’s redemption would best be started with a totally new character or a character she’s had very minimal/no interactions with in canon.

As for the Katara bit; she’s also someone I considered to be the first to warm up to Azula. As you mentioned she’s very compassionate and sympathetic and, like Toph, she wouldn’t let Azula walk all over her. I can see her having the patience to try to work with Azula. And like you said, she’s got a natural inclination to heal and help so I can see that working.

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