#not anti ship but anti 'it's canon'

[fandom-hoarder]

Ok so the destiel/DEAstiel conversation in Fan Fiction always makes me think of this:

When I still shipped it, I said, "It's NOT DEAstiel for dean and castiel, it's destiel for destiny!" 😅💀

So since my latest final seasons rewatch, I've been thinking about Chuck pushing "destiel besties" to split up Sam and Dean. Chuck is the one that keeps bringing Cas back, after all. Chuck can't stand that every time he throws something at Sam and Dean, instead of killing each other they CHOOSE each other. Something he and Amara don't/won't/can't do. Even the cage was Sam's choice more than the Mark was Amara's.

Castiel IS the "spanner in the works," but he's CHUCK'S device. 👀👀👀👀

Even as Chuck was writing Castiel's 'I love you' to the WRONG Winchester, he was killing the rest of their friends and magical support system one by one also. All the parts of Castiel's speech that don't fit are Chuck. A lot of their supposed best-friend ship is probably Chuck. Maybe Castiel actually does have "a crack in his chassis" from being with the Winchesters; and Chuck doesn't always write it out, it's more like he has an end goal and some plot points he wants to hit and tropes he likes to use, but he lets them fill it in (like Sam finishing the spell for Eileen himself, because this is an ability he has -- a characteristic, you might say).

It's like how when you're writing and a character seems to have a mind of its own and takes the story on side quests, and you might be like 'ooh didn't expect this' but it's still you writing and you get back on track. Effectively that is "free will" under Chuck, except when Sam and Dean exert their ACTUAL free will in choosing each other and NOT being told what to do. Defying the writer's end goal and changing it entirely.

[kiwisandpearls]

“I’m anti cringe culture!”

are you cool with people shipping things you don’t like? Are you cool with people making fanfiction you don’t like? Are you cool with people making fanart you don’t like? Are you cool with canon x oc stuff? Are you cool with self-shippers? Are you cool with furries? Are you—

[queermikewheelertruther]

“You only hate Mileven bc it’s straight!”

Not quite!! Maybe if Milkvan was as good as this top tier, adorable, romantic, genuine, authentic, passionate, and likable relationship these two have I would actually enjoy it.

[meowdy-all]

I know i did NOT just get a wincest shipper across my dash in the year 2024

[bootsysblog15]

“Byler just doesnt make logical sense-“

Must i remind you that this is a science fiction tv show..? Based off of a fantasy role-play game..?

Byler could leave in a flying car Grease style for all i care. At that point i think id cheer louder 💀

[ghostlycleric]

I’m pretty sure Mike and El are the only couple in the show that don’t have shared interests.

Lucas and Max: Arcade games

Dustin and Suzie: Science/Technology

Jonathan and Nancy: Documenting life (Through Photography/Journalism)

Joyce and Hopper: Investigation (Hop was a cop, Joyce is Joyce) +caring for their kids

Mike and El are never given any interest that they both have and do together. Their relationship isn’t even given much volume beyond their trauma bonding. They actually went out of their way to have El dismissing Mike’s interests and only have El gain her own when she’s away from Mike.

With every other couple we have scenes of their shared interests adding to their relationship. Scenes that prove that their dynamic is rooted in a real, not-purely-physical connection.

There is one other couple who didn’t have shared interests… (*cough* Steve and Nancy *cough* who are broken up *cough*).

Mike and Will by default have a lot of shared interests. They’d be the only best friends to lovers in the show (which is actually crazy in a show with so many couples and friendships). DnD, despite being the root of the party itself, is specifically tied to these two in an interesting way. They’ve used dnd a few times as text above a more romantic subtext, which I feel like deserves its own post.

(I feel like it’s worth noting that technically they have Art (writing and painting), but Mike’s interest in writing has never been specifically confirmed in the show, so I’m not counting that.)

I’d be really interested in seeing canon byler having an isolated interest in season 5 that goes beyond subtext. Even if it’s still dnd, just isolated.

[lol101elated]

"MIKE IS NOT GAY!"

PLEASE LOOK AT THESE PHOTOS THERE IS NO SIGN THAT HE IS GAY!🤓🏳️‍🌈

[givingairtomymouth]

Kudos to all the Zutarians, it takes resilience to constantly defend a perfectly fine non canon ship from people who did not understand the concept of "ship" to begin with.

[lambmotifz]

can’t believe there’s still people who get angry at the fact that wincest shippers exist when the show’s creator openly said he puts homoerotic subtext between brothers

[k8lynjoy]

I genuinely want to know what show the people who say that Aang never respected Katara are watching. "Aang never let Katara feel anything other than what he wanted her to feel" "He idealized her" "He didn't care about her feelings" "He didn't support her the way she supported him". WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS FROM??? That's a rhetorical question because I already know what episodes/moments they're using to make those assertions (The Southern Raiders and the kiss in Ember Island Players), and even then, THEY'RE WRONG.

Let's start with TSR. This episode gets so misinterpreted it's not even funny. First off, Aang was never even upset with Katara in this episode, he's just warning her against killing someone??? He never gets mad at her or berates her. He just talks to her with a level head??? He openly acknowledges that he knows and understands how much rage and pain Katara is in, and he never tells her that she shouldn't feel it, he just advises her not to act rashly because of it??? Where is the lack of respect? Where is he ignoring her feelings or getting upset with her for not acting the way he wants her to? He lets her take Appa and even tells her that he understands that this is a journey she needs to take and supports her doing so, he just doesn't want her to kill someone. Honestly Aang shows more respect for Katara by knowing who she is as a person and not enabling her in her revenge than Zuko who is only going on this trip with her so that she'll forgive him, not because he actually cares that she's upset over the death of her mother (and this is not Zuko slander before people take it as such, I love Zuko, but it's not even subtext that his motivations in this episode are selfish and not about Katara).

As for the kiss in EIP, yes, it was not okay. Yes, it was a mistake. Yes, he shouldn't have done it after Katara laid a clear boundary, but he recognizes that immediately. After Katara- rightfully- gets upset with him, he gets upset with himself. We also see that he never repeats that mistake again and is fully okay with letting Katara lead after that. Which is why it's Katara who initiates the final kiss on the balcony. And if you still don't think he learned anything from it, he starts to ask for her consent in the comics before kissing her, showing that he absolutely DID grow from that mistake. So, we're really going to let one moment where a 12-year-old boy made a mistake dictate the entire show and negate everything that came before it??? That's coocoo banana's behavior.

I also think that those assertions are completely baseless because when does Aang idealize Katara? When does he hate her rage? When does he not support her? Is it when he laughed with her after she stole from pirates? Or in that same episode where he constantly reaffirms her skills as a waterbender- first by saying that he's able to pick it up so easily because she's a great teacher and then later when he refers to her as a waterbender which makes her so fucking happy? Is it when he gets so upset that Pakku refuses to teach Katara how to waterbend that he tries to walk away from his own waterbending training? Is it when he goes behind Pakku's back to teach her anyway? Or when he stands by actively cheering her on when she's raging against the patriarchy and fights Pakku? Is it when he calls her Sifu Katara because she expressed that he referred to Toph that way but not her? Is it when he helped her commit ecoterrorism and told her she was a hero for helping the people in that Fire Nation village? Is it when he holds her after she breaks down because she learned how to bloodbend? Is it when he comforts her after Jet's death? Is it... you get the point, don't you?

Aang recognizing Katara as someone who is strong and capable is not him idealizing her. Him not enabling her committing murder is not him hating when she feels rage. Aang actively supports Katara's rage on multiple occasions, he just doesn't enable her when he knows she's acting out of character. If you don't ship Kataang, that's fine, but please don't make up baseless accusations to try and tear them down just because you're mad that a ship that had no basis in canon (potential is not evidence) wasn't canon.

[geegers22]

Some Zukka shippers need to understand that “Zutara shippers spend so much time arguing that their ship should be canon. Zukka shippers don’t care if our ship is canon or not because we’re above the ship wars” isn’t the sick burn they think it is.

Like YEAH obviously. Zukka is a ship that has almost no standing in canon in the first place. So many Zukka shippers admit that they are drawn towards the dynamic because they just like to see the characters together (there’s nothing wrong with liking a ship for this reason).

But the entire reason that Zutara is still as popular today as it was 15 years ago is because the narrative strongly suggests that it would be canon. If ATLA was a bottle, many Zutara shippers believe that the wrong cap was screwed on in its final moments.

Zukka is a ship that is not backed by the narrative while Zutara is heavily backed by the narrative. So of course our conversations are going to revolve around different topics.

It’s not “above the ship wars” to complain about Zutara shippers gathering too much evidence that our ship should be canon, it’s actually inserting yourself into the ship wars.

[the-badger-mole]

@allnewalldifferentwildspider

I will say, I think it's interesting when people say that arguing that the finale and Kataang happening the way it was just giving Aang what he wanted is somehow us taking Katara's agency away. Katara was rightfully angry with Aang in her last two encounters with him. Giving her agency within that narrative would look like her actually having a conversation with Aang and telling him how she felt. I don't just mean romantically, I mean having an actual conversation where her conflict with him is laid out and resolved, like it would be in any healthy friendship, and much more a healthy romance. People can argue that they had a conversation off screen. That's fine. I will never tell anyone they can't headcanon whatever they please. It's none of my business unless they make it my business. Have so much fun. Don't even think about me or my opinions. They don't matter.

However, she never had that conversation. It's not in the show. It's not in the comics. It's not canon. The way her moment of "oh, I like him" was set up implied that she only considered him romantically because he ostensibly singlehandedly "saved the day" (he most certainly did not). There's never a moment where she gets to be vulnerable with him and have him help her carry her burden. No moment of why she might like him romantically (and also, may I add, we never see what, aside from her looks, Aang likes about Katara). Any "build up" of Kataang on her end is largely done through external circumstances and not the result of her coming to understand her feelings (this from the passionate girl who wears her heart on her sleeve for the entire series). They are also never again brought up by her- and the times it brought up by Aang in canon are disastrous (Lava Fissure Incident. EIP. Arguably DoBS). Katara never has a chance to confront Aang on his blatant disrespect of her culture, and it's never walked back- in fact, IIRC, in the comics, he supports the soft colonization of the SWT by the NWT.

I can understand why people have the headcanon that Katara and Aang had a deep conversation off-screen that resolved all their issues and gave Katara a chance to tell him she liked him and why. I think that if you ship them, you kind of have to headcanon something like that. But I do not think canon supports it. Their deep conversations center Aang and his feelings. Katara's feelings never seem to matter that much to Aang. He didn't even care that Katara and Sokka had lost their father to the Fire Nation after Hakoda sacrificed himself to save Aang's stupid behind. He wanted to go run off and play. Our hero, ladies and babies. There has to be a lot of head canoning to make Kataang work. I know because everything I hate about Aang and Kataang is canon. If I'm basing Kataang on the canon, it looks just like the glimpses we get in LoK, only with a lot less hero worship of Aang.

Don't get me wrong, all the overt romance in Zutara is pure headcanon. I recognize that and I love that for us. What's not head canon is that Zuko shows Katara a ton of support and respect in their short onscreen friendship. And at the risk of upsetting Aang's fans, I will argue Zuko showed her feelings more consideration than Aang ever did in the entire series.

[kittybbyshift]

Daily reminder : your f/o loves you more than anything in this world. In every universe.

[oneofthedrunksattheoverpass]

the bachelor party is always on my mind bc yes it was fun and silly but the writers were soooo intentional about it like it’s the episode tying up buck’s coming out arc and they have tommy show up and the writers could have tried to make tommy into this supportive and fun LI but instead they chose to portray him as bored and unenthusiastic and eventually end up leaving along with everybody else except for eddie who from the start is just as into the party and even suggested matching costumes with buck then he proceeds to get drunk, do karaoke, let buck hang all over him, and overall just matches buck’s freak like literally nobody else can

[showaboutdeath]

I love you proselfshippers!

☆ - I love you proselfshippers who have been "called out" by antis

✿ - I love you proselfshippers who used to be antis/"safe"shippers

☆ - I love you proselfshippers who selfship/like media made by antis

✿ - I love you proselfshippers whos fandom is full of antis so they can't talk about their ships without getting attacked

☆ - I love you proselfshippers who selfship from kids media

✿ - I love you proselfshippers who selfship from adult media

☆ - I love you proselfshippers who selfship with child characters

✿ - I love you proselfshippers who selfship with adult characters

☆ - I love you proselfshippers!! Even if you weren't specified, and I love you proshippers who aren't selfshippers or don't use the term

(/p)

[bootsysblog15]

'idk why you guys are acting like Mike doesn't know if he likes el or not-"

bitch wtf is this. care to explain why after his girlfriend was like "hey I reciprocate your feelings lets lip touch" he

doenst close his eyes and just stand there

MAKES TAHT WEIRD ASS FACE LIKE WTF IS THAT

IMMEDIATELY GOES TO WILL AND ASKS IF HED EVER JOIN ANOTHER PARTY

and we know finn is not a bad actor. THAT means something. u can deny it if u want but ur not getting anywhere by ignoring it