ghostlycleric

[ghostlycleric]

Thinking about how if you cut the whole Cali rode trip plot out season four would not be altered at all. They were missing for a whole episode and nothing was hindered.

So why not cut it?

Because season FIVE would be DESTROYED by it.

Because Byler is so vital it needs this set up. Foundation laying seems useless when you don't know something will be built.

Yes. The Cali plot could have been cut entirely. They were glorified chauffeurs with extra obstacles for filler (and literally only one extra obstacle). But that's actually Byler PROOF.

It was useless to the season 4 plot. So the only reason to keep it in when they could have easily just incorporated the characters into other plotlines - they're able to fly to Hawkins, they go with Joyce, some do one, some do the other, whatever - the only reason to isolate them then have them do seemingly nothing of value is SETUP for something that IS needed.

The only reason for having that is if without it, season 5 rolls around and now VITAL plotlines are out of the blue. It is the "blank makes you crazy" to "From Mike". The "I love her" to "from Mike".

Because Byler was not a plotline in season 4. Not really. Not totally. Not vitally, at least. What it was was threads woven back of a plotline in season FIVE. What it was was planning, preparation.

Jonathan and Argyle are basically comedic relief. Mike and Will do nothing to help El except get to her with a car that they did not drive or need to be in for their plan to work. And if the plot were Mike and El, Mike and El would be there, no. The plot is Mike and Will talking, is just the conversation topic - the same way Will was for Mike and El in season 1.

Mike and Will only setup romantic plotlines, assist the supernatural plotline in no, and are physically isolated from affected any other characters' plotline, but have no romantic payoff and their romance is not even addressed.

Because this isn't a vital season plotline. This is "I know you wanna see what the NINA Project is doing but season 5 would be shit without this you guys I promise".

Don't care about it but can't live without it of storytelling. Almost everything in season 4 is the same without it. But almost everything about the ending of the show is exponentially different. Season 4 is unchanged. But season 5 falls apart. Without Byler. Without us knowing the little things here and there that we now know.

Because if you go over it, barely anything even happened in their plotline. I've said this before, it really was just a bunch of unpaid setups - which makes sense given season 4 and 5 were supposed to be one season.

It's really just because we need to go into season 5 with the knowledge in the back of our minds "Will loves Mike, Will lied to Mike tpo get him to stay with El, Mike's scared the truth about his love for her would hurt her, Mike told El he loved her to save her life".

4 facts. 4. Not plotlines, facts. Some of which are single scenes, many of which are just single lines. It's information. It's setup. It doesn't matter now. But not cutting it is their way of saying it WILL. "It'll pay off," as the Duffers said to Finn Wolfhard.

Nothing else happened in this plotline and they could have integrated these characters elsewhere. This plotline didn't even really have a plotline, just a sparsely scattered series of facts.

But as someone who predicts lots of mysteries accurately, THAT'S how they show you their hand. Not what they tell you is important. What they try to convince you is useless (but made space for anyway).

That's a twist the only way to do a twist. They said in tightening the season 4 scripts they went back to episode 1 to write in that Eddie played guitar so it was planted for later. This is the same thing. It's just planting things so they aren't out of the blue. THIS is how you do a twist, and why we know to predict one. People are right, they do not have a love story plotline. But what they do have is 'rewatch details' with no other purpose. What they do have is "uselessness".

If season 4 is unaffected by their plotline, it means season 5 falls apart without it.

[ghostlycleric]

They are by definition a love triangle. This discourse applies to any love triangles containing media as well. There are two types of love triangles, and they’re the two you showed in this post.

While many people believe the B and C love A triangle should be called a “love angle” or a “love corner,” both are considered a love triangle by definition.

You’ll actually find both definitions depending on which dictionary you look at. Some combine the definitions as well.

BOTH are love triangles because BOTH serve the same narrative purpose. You can seperate them by triangle and angle, but there’s really no use because as a narrative device they do the exact same thing.

Willelmike are a love triangle, even if you’d prefer to call them a love angle (because it means the same thing for the narrative). (I personally prefer angle but use triangle because it’s just the more common term🤷).

Friendly reminder that the WillElMike situation is NOT a love triangle.

It actually pisses me off so much when people say this

THIS is an example of a love triangle. The arrows form into the shape, as the name comes from that. But we all know this isn't the situation in the show.

Now as you can see here, Two arrows are pointing towards Mike. It's not a triangle shape - more of an inverted V. Even if it was switched to Mileven, it would be the same. I mean, calling it a love triangle doesn't even make sense.

I know this isn't a big deal but just needed to say this

[ghostlycleric]

Okay so I’m gonna predict how byler-full parts of st5 marketing will be, and then I’ll come back to this post after each thing to see if I’m right.

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS FOR FUN. I HAVE NO INSIDER INFORMATION. THIS IS JUST BASED ON VIBES. I’M NOT CLAIMING ANY OF THIS TO BE ACCURATE. THIS IS JUST FOR FUN.

So I thought the pre-production and filming era would be m*leven postive, but they’ve barely been mentioned and have one official st5 picture where they’re on the same screen together. And it was from the very start of filming well over a year ago. I’m still absolutely baffled by how byler positive marketing has been so far. Even so, I’m trying to keep my expectations low, and I feel like as actual marketing starts things will probably change.

[A lot of the terms I’m using are usually used interchangeably. For this post they mean: Teaser Trailer: a minute or less of blink and you’ll miss it clips throughout the volume. Teaser: a minute or less of one basically uninterrupted clip of a scene from st5 (ex. Welcome to California for st4). Trailer: Over a minute blink and you’ll miss it clips that come out no sooner than a month before the season itself releases.]

Volume 1 Marketing Predictions

Teaser Trailer(s): Def m*leven positive, maybe even byler negative/not even there. Teasers mainly show where our characters start off, so if m*leven is together at the start of st5 then they’ll be shown together in the teaser. My only hope for byler content in the teaser is if they continue the og party marketing they’ve been doing since production marketing kicked off.

Actual Teaser Trailer(s): TBD

Teaser(s): Slightly more likey to be byler neutral than a teaser trailer. I don’t even know if we’ll get teasers like we did for st4 and st3. They’re super off the usual schedule with all this, but if we do, I can see byler being shown in some way in a teaser. Like if they show living situations, and if Will really is living with the Wheelers, I can see us getting something like that.

Actual Teaser(s): TBD

Trailer(s): At least byler neutral, maybe byler pos? I think they spend so much time together this season that it wouldn’t make sense to not market them in the trailers. I could also see them marketing m*leven right up into the release of vol1, which is why I think it could be byler neutral. I think we’ll have scenes of byler together but also scenes of m*leven together. It’ll be insanely suspicious if neither pair appears together in the trailer at all.

Actual Trailer(s): TBD

Poster(s): Byler pos, just like in st4. Again they spend so much time together that the posters will likely reflect that. And when I say byler pos I mean they might like be looking at eachother or smth. And I don’t mean the the floating head/body posters, I mean the ones with actual backgrounds (if we even get those😭)

Actual Poster(s): TBD

Interviews: M*leven pos/byler teasey. I think interviews are going to stay nearly the same. If they drop anything like “if you’ve been watching the show, you should know [Will’s] not interested in El. He’s interested in someone else in the group” again I’d actually be shell shocked. I would never recover. I think Finn will continue saying m*leven pos stuff, and other cast members may tease byler while still saying m*leven pos stuff. They know byler is popular, and I think even with byler endgame we could be getting some byler neg stuff just to throw us off😭

Actual Interviews: TBD

If you have any different predictions and wants to share or make their your post like this I’d love to see them. I’ll update this post as I think of more things to predict, but I won’t change my predictions after the target media is released.

[ghostlycleric]

Mike giving El a ring between s3-4 fully tracks with his behavor and means nothing for the endgames. He picked El flowers in s4 and wrote her so many letters “because she’s [his] girlfriend.” The ring means just as much as the flowers did, or as much as the expensive bear from s3 would’ve if he could afford it.

The flowers made El upset once she saw the “from” attached to it. The ring likely had a “from” letter with it as well, so it would’ve made her upset too. (If it was sent by mail, it would’ve had a letter signed from with it. If it was a gift for christmas, the wrapping paper would’ve said “To, El From, Mike”). We also know El kept all Mike’s letters even though they made her upset, even made a little shrine for them, so yes she would still keep the ring.

And, either way, if the ring was meant to symbolize their longevity she would’ve torn it off during their s4 fight. Then Mike could’ve had a token from her to look at throughout st4 to show how worried he is; he could’ve stared longingly at the ring instead of at Will during the van scene. They could’ve had a moment where Mike put it back on her finger (after the monologue, most likely). But they never acknowledged the ring. They had the opportunity to make it important and chose to ignore it.

The ring has no canon significance whatsoever. It’s a romantic action just as empty as everything else we’ve seen him do in canon.

[ghostlycleric]

As someone who takes literally every out-of-show proof with a grain of salt, this is such a foundational writing concept that I just don’t see them lying about. Some stories prompt open endings, and the Duffers have clearly decided this one doesn’t. I’m like 99% sure this interview puts implied/up to interpretation endgames of any ships off the table completely. If byler doesn’t end up explicitly together then they aren’t endgame at all.

I’m almost 100% SURE mileven will NOT be endgame but I feel like byler wont be endgame either. I literally think byler is so well set up but im just so terrified that they will just leave it up to interpretation.😪

[ghostlycleric]

The Duffers are very open to letting actors have a say in their character arcs. I’m pretty sure David Harbour has said he collaborated with the Duffers for Hoppers arc too. So, yes, it’s likely that Noah and/or Finn have a say in their character arcs as well, but it’s not confirmed (as far as I’m aware).

Someone said that Robin only turned out to be lesbian and in live with tammy thomson after all that straightbaiting in s3 was because Maya recommended to the brothers that they could also do things this way and experiment or something.

Then my friend, isn't it bold of you to assume that neither of the main casts, much less Noah or Finn asked for something similar as well? Considering Noah is very much a canon gay in real life and that he literally said that Will's character over all helped him a lot with coming into terms with his own sexuality.

And the signs of Mike being queer are more than enough.

Like, how didn't that cross your mind?

[ghostlycleric]

Our clerics Will the Wise and Holly the Heroic 😭 and their paladin, I guess.

[ghostlycleric]

That Cleric line is sus as hell, and I think it's not actually about El

So. When the first reference to this quote said that Mike was talking about El, I was very weirded out by the idea of El being a cleric. It didn't make much sense for her character and I couldn't really see the point of switching El and Will yet again in their D&D persona.

But seeing the actual quote... El isn't actually mentioned anywhere on here, which makes me think that the first leak might have been jumping to conclusions a bit. (honestly, even believing this quote is also jumping to conclusions because it's sus to have such direct quotes this early, but I digress. I'm gonna assume this one is reliable for this post)

On this post (it's a compilation of most textual leaks we got so open at your own risk), the quote is under the "Role-Playing Inspired" category, and juxtaposed right next to a nickname that seems very interesting : Holly the Heroic, which is probably a reference to a D&D persona for Holly, similar to Will the Wise. And I think this little picture below is her figurine.

Interestingly enough, @will80sbyers has made the observation on this post that it might be the same figurine she has on her necklace on that old leak of her in the Wheeler's House.

So my guess right now is that this speech from Mike is actually him trying to comfort and reassure Holly through creating a D&D character for her ! It would also explain why the powers described don't really align with El's powerset (they don't entirely align with a Cleric's either, but it's not the first time the writers have made no sense in terms of D&D classes abilities so whatever), or why the hell Mike would openly be talking about his girlfriend's power when she's supposed to be in hiding because of them.

That all sounds pretty in-character for the guy who is known to escape real world issues through his fantasy game, wouldn't you say?

My curent guess is that Mike is not taking Holly's worry about Mr Whatsit seriously ("Monsters are not real" as he says in one of the leaks, he seems to think it's a fantasy), which is why he thinks that comforting her with imaginary games will be enough. It probably won't be, which will almost certainly lead to him blaming himself (potentially what the "Nancy looking at Mike with concern" pic was about ?).

(Thanks to @will80sbyers for the leak pics, it made it much easierr to find what I was looking for)

[ghostlycleric]

sunlight

i went a little ham with the rendering. do me a favor and zoom in, cause the resolution is so high that every time i flipped the canvas i could hear photoshop crying out in pain

i had a ton of fun drawing the details. also if u noticed my paladin design on the wall, i love u

reblogs much appreciated :3

[ghostlycleric]

Straight people think Will ending single represents lack of dependence on romance for happiness but it actually represents queer people settling for their dreams being inaccessible just like they thought they were.

Will isn't wrong about romance making him happy. He's wrong about never being able to get it. You know he's wrong about something, that's a character arc. You were close. But you did not have the experience to understand. (Next time, ask a queer person when you don't understand instead of firmly deciding then arguing with queer people on queerness)

[ghostlycleric]

Generally:

Teasers come out at any time during production, are shorter than a trailer, and focus on setting/exposition. ST teasers essentially show us where our characters are starting off without telling us whats going on.

Trailers don’t come out until like a month or two before the season releases at the earliest. These are longer than teasers and include the actual plot of the season. ST normally releases multiple trailers with a final one released within the 2 weeks before the season releases. Trailers are also more likely to be put on the actual Netflix page, while teasers are just posted on social media. (Though the st2 teaser is on the netflix page, as well as a title tease for one season.)

This is just what I’ve noticed from going through past ST teasers/trailers, so don’t mark my word on this, but this seems to be how the ST marketing team seperates the two (when I google the difference, I get mixed results, so it seems these rules don’t apply to every production).

guys i’ve been hungry for content but i actually dk the difference between a teaser and a trailer 😕

[ghostlycleric]

I am very skeptical about this, but I am also bored, so here’s some more evidence.

I do fully agree that this is Noah’s handwriting. I’d also like to note he definitely didn’t write these things quickly like he did on the whiteboards.

OP said it doesn’t make sense for them to not have been filming, and there’s more than just scripts to prove that.

I actually happened to find exactly what this is😭

That green light clearly indicates that they had audio equipment running when they took this picture.

And besides the fact that they were definitely filming, the note being written in such a grammatically correct way just doesn’t make sense if it’s just a casual note passed between people on set.

Who would put something in quotation marks if they were not repeating something they have already heard/read? (Or maybe Noah was revising a line he read in the script, and this is just how he wrote it down.) The capitalized R in Rubix’s cube??? Either Noah hates being grammatically incorrect or this was a professional note he didn’t just write on a whim.

And the toy beside it may indicate one of two things: whatever room they’re filming in has figets in it, or someone on set was playing with that figet while filming. (Or, secret third thing: someone took a toy off set to figet with.) If this was someone on set, it’s not a stretch to say someone was playing with a Rubix’s cube while filming. Which would disprove this being inside the show.

But we know Will Byers does canonically figet with things, such as the ball he was bouncing around anxiously before his and Mike’s first heart to heart in st4. And like OP said we know Mike canonically had a Rubix’s cube on his bedside table.

Imo, the quotation marks and grammatical correctness just don’t make sense if that note isn’t official/professional in some way. I don’t know anyone who would pass a casual note so carefully written😭

The Note on Ross's Insta IS Byler Content!! (Handwriting Analysis and Context)

Okay, so on my Twt tl and on byler tumblr i've seen this (kind of flirty?) note that was posted by Ross Duffer on insta during filming resurface a lot:

As one person pointed out a while back, the only character we really see with a Rubik's Cube is Mike, which you can see that he keeps in his bedroom on his nightstand in season 1:

So, we can take a guess from this and say that the note is probably in Mike's room, or at least in his house... But who is it from?

(this is where I become a detective, haha)

SO, some people had pointed out that the handwriting kind of looked like Noah's, but I have noticed that some of the cast have similar handwritings so I wanted to put it to the test:

First, I found the interview Finn, Noah, and Millie did where they're writing on whiteboards, and I took screenshots of all of Noah's answers to compare:

Then, I did a side-bye-side of some letters (and one letter combo) and......

There is zero doubt in my mind that Noah wrote this note, especially when looking at the handwriting for the 'e' and the 'go' it's a basically perfect match!

Now, a lot of people have argued (and reasonably so) that this is probably just a note that Noah left out of character for the Duffers or some other cast member, but I want to explain why I think that it's actually likely that it may be part of the show:

Firstly, if you look at the script resting next to the note, you can make out only a couple words, but the one that stands out to me is "message:" In my opinion, it wouldn't make much sense for the Duffers to be casually be carrying the script and setting it down to take pictures in a character's room if there isn't something being filmed there, especially when we can assume from "message:" that the note or some other written message will be shown.

Also, it honestly makes sense in terms of the plot - this post was on day 1 of filming, and we know that they filmed portions of episode one that day, where we are almost definitely going to see the Byers staying at the Wheelers' (and therefore Will staying in Mike's room), meaning that it would make sense for Will to be leaving this note at some point in that episode

In all I obviously don't think this note is an actual plot point, but it is a cute easter egg and little bit of a look into Mike and Will's s5 dynamic if it really is part of the series :)

[ghostlycleric]

punished by love

[ghostlycleric]

Holy crap it just hit me this season is gonna be so good wait. That shot looks incredible stop it. THE LIGHTING??? HELLLOOOO????

[ghostlycleric]

Maybe the ST5 teaser was the friends we made along the way

[ghostlycleric]

WAITWAITWAITWAITIWJEKRORNRKRK

Yeah the suspense IS killing me why was that ALL CLIPS WE’VE ALREADY SEEN

[ghostlycleric]

bylers and the byler-adjacent side of the stranger things fandom are/is such a double-edged sword because on the one hand it's fantastic to have thousands of super well-thought out analysis posts easily available but on the other hand it's hard as shit to come up with anything that somebody hasn't said before in some capacity