#not a nancy apologist

[ghostlyfleur]

Honestly, Nancy could have been a great character, but the show tries so hard to brand her as this sweet, perfect girl that all the shitty things she does get overlooked. It's like other characters, especially those who were wronged by her, aren't allowed to be pissed at Nancy. Robin wouldn't have been so nice to Steve if he had given her the energy Nancy did. And yet throughout s4, Robin wanted her approval, which was so ooc based on what we know about her in s3. Or Steve being so in love with her even though she cheated on him, which is such a sore point for him. It made him look so pathetic in s4. He deserves better than that. All the people who ship stancy only ship it because Nancy deserves Steve's love over Jonathan. They never ask if Nancy is right for Steve. He wants someone who loves him with all their being, which isn't Nancy. He was always her second choice. The fact that he might never know Nancy cheated on him makes me sick because he deserves to know, so he can move on and see it's not entirely his fault for fucking up. The show made such a huge deal of cheating, and Steve, it's the only real knowledge we have from his family life, yet he isn't allowed to react to it. They put him through it in s1 as a joke where he absolutely lashed out and got reprimanded. And then seriously in s2, where he just had to roll over as a sign for change, though he should have been hurt and pissed.

The show refusing to let Nancy learn from mistakes is what's killing the character. But you also have to ask if it's truly the shows fault or is it Nancy's character at this point because we see a pattern, and people like her really exist. She's so stagnant, she's still the same character she was in s2 with more gun experience.

Sorry for this, but I'm also so frustrated by her and the rise of stancy shippers. (If she gets with Steve without any reflection, I'll throw up. Or worse, Steve is dying for her or Jonathan as an act of "true love." I need to get him out of that awful show)

i totally agree, babe! please always feel free to send me your thoughts.

and yeah, people keep trying to make excuses for nancy because she “could’ve been better with better writing blah blah blah” but that’s not the case imo. it’s not that the poor character is being abandoned like i believe steve’s is… nancy has always been entitled and had a superiority complex and a ridiculous need to have boys fighting over her.

her whole persona and attitude makes others feel like they need her approval, you’re right. and she definitely does not deserve this fucked up altar she’s been put on.

and how she acts as though steve owns her an explanation for being friends with robin? and how she treats robin like shit bc she thinks robin’s with steve? like fuck off… what an entitled upper middle class diva. and all the while flirting with steve when she has a whole fucking boyfriend already? a boyfriend she cheated on steve with, mind you.

i hate cheaters. i hate entitled assholes.

it’s not that nancy is a good, straight a’s, perfect girl next door, but the writing is bad — nancy is an asshole that does some good for the group ‘cause she wants to avenge barb or whatever, and uses that an excuse to be a dick.

disclaimer: this is my opinion btw. i def don’t care if anyone disagrees, and please don’t try to rant and change my mind.

[godofstupidsentences]

Sometimes it’s just you and the character hated by the whole fandom against the world

[maxmayfieldghostwrotethis]

lex lore ☆___★

🎸 hi! i'm lex, she/they, 19, lesbian, autistic, and looking for ST friends i have no idea how tumblr works im a twitter child 🎧 mike wheeler and max mayfield kinnie (and platonic bffs truther) they're literally the same person in different fonts.

🌟 full time worker and student but i find time to act unemployed. sometimes i write, sometimes i'm silly

🎮 i enjoy: byler (canon truther), ronance, elmax, lumax, jancy

📼 i absolutely loath: billy, brenner, lonnie, vecna 📽️ i seriously can't wait to know: why will was taken if he wasn't bleeding, why the time stopped in the upside down that same day, the lore behind "let's start a new party, you and me", mike's letter for will, why mike is always late in the first episode, and if they're finally gonna make will curse more 🤍 other things i enjoy: dead poets society, spiderman,

i do NOT support n**h s*****p so don’t follow me if you do.

i stand with PALESTINE. *pfp credit to owner!! i took it from pinterest but i'm not sure who made it :)

[a-healthy-dose-of-apathy]

not my usual content but in 2023 i want more mike angst. there’s plenty of room for it in that kid. fuck him up y’all. mike has all of the “ugly” trauma responses like anger management issues, low self esteem, commitment issues, etc. explore that outside of just being haters 😭.

[ladyinbl00d]

mickey didn’t deserve to die, he just wanted to be a serial killer who had a trial☹️

[magnapinna-sp-a]

Rip Queen Gertrude Robinson you would of love Nancy Sinatra

[ronanceisintheair]

How could someone sane hate Nancy Wheeler?

She did nothing wrong ever in her life.

I know this, and I love her.

The answer is in the question: "someone sane"

Any sane person would not hate nancy wheeler. Any sane person would not have ill feelings towards nancy wheeler.

It's the sheer mental gymnastics that people have to go through to have hate in their hearts for her.

[wrathofthegodsfrontman]

My roommate just said Nancy Wheeler is annoying and now I want to kick her out of my apartment but maybe that’s harsh idk

[nancydfan]

I will die on the hill that scott shouldn’t have been the villain in ToT, and it was lazy writing to have the bitter, nihilistic dude discovering that life was actually always getting worse.

[oh2e]

I love being on the periphery of fandom and only seeing things like “I’d love for people to stop calling [character] the villain and calling her absolutely awful and irredeemable” instead of actually seeing people say those things because I love her

[jonathanbyersphd]

You know there's many different ways that you can kill the one you love The slowest way is never loving them enough Do you really want to know where I was April 29th? Do I really have to tell you how he brought me back to life? 

High infidelity

[xirayn]

The photo scene is largely misconstrued by the fandom. Nancy is not naked, she has her bra on and no pictures are taken of her and Steve having sex. Does that excuse it? Absolutely not. Jonathan is 16 in the 1980s, however, and the culture around consent was extremely different than it is today.

As Steve is the trope of the 80's jock bully turned on it's head, Jonathan is the trope of the outcast/loser. In 80s media, this character was supposed to be cheered for using cunning or coercion to circumvent the social hotness hierarchy. Getting a picture of a girl's back in her bra is nothing compared to using a ladder to watch a half-naked pillow fight (Animal House), drilling a hole in a wall to watch girls shower in the locker room (Porky's), looking up a girls skirt and possibly touching her inapprppriately (The Breakfast Club), or any of the other 'boys will be boys shennanigans' from almost any 80s teen movie. The fact Jonathan does recognize that he shouldn't have taken that picture and apologizes (and he does even if Nancy glosses over it) is what turns the trope on it's head.

And it continues with all of the situations Jonathan could have taken advantage of Nancy's emotional or inebriated state. If Stranger Things was written in the 80s, he would have with full approval expected from the audience.

Steve is older than Jonathan. If he is 'just a teenage boy', then so is Jonathan.

okay so I reblogged a post from @thestobingirlie a while ago but I wanted to dive a little more into this so basically

I👏DON'T👏CARE👏 how poor Jonathan is. taking naked photos of your classmates without their knowledge or consent is fucking weird and creepy and it baffles me that people still defend him on this

"he was looking for Will-" in Steve Harrington's backyard??

"Steve didn't have to break the camera tho-" let's keep in mind that not only did Jonathan violate Nancy's privacy but also Steve's. plus at this stage, Steve is like 16, so yeah, he broke the camera. as he should. some guy he barely knows has photos of him and his girlfriend having sex. that's weird dude.

i feel like people really overstate how much of a dick Steve was in season 1. honestly imo for every shitty thing he did there was a somewhat reasonable explanation behind it. he was literally just a 16 year old kid with absent parents and who was heavily influenced by the people he surrounded himself with but that's a WHOLE other thing we're not gonna get into rn

ALSO pls correct me if I'm wrong but did Jonathan ever even apologise?? then he and Nancy just get together WHILE SHE'S👏STILL👏DATING👏STEVE👏 and they both act like he was the problem the entire time????

[theshippirate22]

…

[thembohux]

My god do you all realize how fucking WILD Layla would go for The Craft???? Because I just did lol

[bylerschmyler]

While I totally agree with everything you said I think it's the perspective we get that makes Nancy look like someone Mike can't talk to. I just want to point out that they only had one Season (S3) where their arcs are intertwined before the big gathering. Yes she didn't gave him reassurance and comfort during season 3 but Mike didn't make it easy to agree with him. Nancy's S3 arc was driving to independence, being a strong women. So it wouldn't make sense if she would agree with Mike in S3 about Elsl's decisions.

Also in extended canon (Books and comics) she is sometimes a source of reassurance.

not to be too real but since we're talking about it... we always talk about will feeling lonely which is fair, but... it is such an Ugly, isolating, and genuinely heart-wrenching feeling to be the odd one out in your family, and to watch them treat others who aren't related to you the way you wish they would treat you, to watch them perform their familial roles with them and not you.

nancy's the only person in his family that mike could talk to, the only person that has the same trauma and would understand, and yet... he can't. they don't ever talk unless it's to be snippy and bite. nancy spends more time caring about max and will than she does mike, her own little brother.

holly is too young for him to bond with like that. she's just barely a kid, one that still needs to be cared for.

his mom tries her best, but he doesn't feel comfortable being vulnerable with her. considering the fact that she did everything "right" according to society's standards and married their dad of all people, i doubt he feels comfortable showing her who he really is. he lets her hug him when he's at his lowest, but we don't see them actually connecting.

his dad is just some ghost that haunts his house. he doesn't care about mike or think highly of him at all. the only times we've seen him pay mike any attention are when he belittles his interests, mocks him, punishes him, or shuts him down by telling him to listen to his mother. the only support he gets from him is financial in nature.

meanwhile, everyone else has a family they can turn to. dustin, despite lying to his mother to keep her out of his shenanigans, seems to have a decent relationship with her. even if he doesn't, he still has steve and robin. lucas is shown to have a healthy relationship with his parents and erica. will and el have their family.

max's situation is different, but she has the backing of the party; people that love her and actively try to help her and pull her back into the world of the living. she isn't thrust into a leadership role that doesn't allow for vulnerability. she has nancy who is willing to fight monsters for her, el who literally performed a miracle for her, and lucas who has stood by her since the beginning.

and mike... well. he has will back now, sure, but... things have been different between them for a long time now, even if they're both trying their best to be how they were before. and before then, will obviously was in california, not returning his calls or reaching out, making mike feel like he'd lost him for good.

so... all that being said, it's not that surprising that mike is the way he is: riddled with abandonment issues, wanting to be needed, immediately apologizing whenever he dares to open up, inclined to give others the protection and comfort no one's ever given him, prone to jealousy and possessiveness, unable to be completely and wholly honest about what troubles him, not exactly the most open to new people, and someone with appallingly low self-esteem.

you know how they say people that are drowning don't always look like they're drowning? that's mike.

[sharkneto]

So. Season 4.

Let’s start with the good. In no particular order -

The road trip. Loved the energy of them all together again and suffering mildly and looking terrible. I appreciate we didn’t waste a bunch of time with them without their powers.

Gene and Jean were great. Loved their energy, the right level of weird. Nick Offerman and Megan Mullally were perfectly cast for the roles.

Liked the idea of the Keepers, the consequence of all the timeline meddling leaking through.

Loved the concept of the subway-between-timelines. That aesthetic slaps for the map alone.

 The Truman Show Christmas Town. They nailed the creepy energy, I liked how ridiculously well-armed it was, I liked that they all died badly, I liked that the Umbrellas got to flex their powers. Diego’s flipping and bullet-mancy was fun, as was him cheating at the axe game to win his kids toys. Luther finally being properly bulletproof was also nice.

Ben Doc-Ock-ing around on the Horror. And the Horror dragging behind him while powers were booting back up. Silly fun.

Loved that Viktor dated and was unable to hold on to every eligible woman in Halifax. Daddy Issues strike again and again, poor guy.

It makes no sense for the level of tech in the show, but I did laugh at Ben being a Crypto Bro. That is the exact way in which his personality sucks.

Jerome and Nancy. If they had left Diego being suspicious of Lila seeing that “little Greek guy” as a “haha it’s just Five!” joke, it is very funny. But they didn’t. Alas.

I didn’t hate the ending! I will always think redemption through living is a better and more powerful conclusion, but them all dying to save the world because they’re the force causing repeat apocalypses was always on the table as an option. I thought they did a good job hitting emotions, them all snarking together until the end felt in character and heartfelt; if other writing choices didn’t happen before it, I think they could have really stuck that landing. I thought the easter eggs of characters from earlier seasons was fun, I hope the Handler still sucks as a regular person.

Overall, I was vibing for the first four episodes. Was it perfect? No. It was never going to be, but I could overlook the usual UA cringe and plotholes because my favorite guys were back on the screen and having good character moments together and fumbling along to save the world. I don’t usually care about spoilers, but I worked hard to avoid S4 spoilers specifically because I didn’t want expectations. The show was going to do what it was going to do, and I didn’t want to judge it for things it was never going to be. And that strat worked well for the first half of the season! It was on par with S3, which I’m an apologist for – had stuff I liked and stuff I was going to be happy to ignore, but overall we’re having a good time! My favorite dysfunctional family is here, I had missed them!

Then Ep5 hit. And we’re onto the problems and things I would change (under the cut --)

The biggest problem of the season is that the pacing was wack, in both an internal time-frame and technical-writing frame.

Internally, media for some reason has no idea how long a year is. Some of the Hargreeves’ problems at the beginning of the season would have worked much better if we were jumping in at year two or three of being in the new timeline, six years is a long time. Diego and Lila’s growing pains at being parents and living a domestic life, how to balance having kids makes more sense to be at this point. And the first couple years of adapting to no-powers-new-universe is way more interesting that hopping in once they’re all settled into mostly-sad patterns (which is in character for them all, they’re disasters). Why not an opening montage of them in their active struggle? Why are we picking up six years later? Unfortunately, because of Ep5, it does feel like the whole point of such a long time jump was to get Five’s body to a legal age and not just so Aidan wouldn’t have to pretend he’s physically a teen anymore (even though we have 30-year-olds playing teens all over other TV shows).

From a technical writing standpoint, for a show that only has six episodes to bring about a satisfying conclusion to a plot as convoluted and bonkers as UA has, they squandered Episode 5. The first four episodes we were moving along, finding plot points, getting Umbrellas in position to move things forward, and then Ep5 hits and is anyone except Viktor and Ben doing something for the plot??? The show is at its strongest with the Umbrellas are together, and it went out of its way to split them up. I also usually love character time, but we had no time to spare! We spend most of the episode either with Five and Lila in the subway, or with Klaus in the world’s most fucked-up situation. And neither do anything to build meaningfully towards the final episode! A weird choice to have your show screech to a halt in its penultimate episode.

Usually, Klaus’ side adventures loop in some important detail that pushes things forward in an unexpected way – he destroys Hazel and ChaCha’s briefcase because of Vietnam, he finds the Kugelblitz, he puts Reggie in position to use Oblivion. This time? He’s getting used and abused by a gang and buried alive to be reunited with Allison so that we… gain nothing? Except Klaus and Allison have made up from their fight? Why did I have to watch Klaus get possessed and fucked for that to happen? Why did they do that to him and me. I don’t mind angst and the incredible fucked-up situations, but it has to be earned and the story didn’t gain anything from it. Klaus just had a horrific time because that’s what he gets, I guess.

And now we get to Five and Lila. Five and Lila, Five and Lila, Five and Lila. The thing is – I don’t hate the idea of them. Obviously, it’s not anything I was ever going to ship on my own, but if they’re going to do it, I can see how and why. They even set it up in a way that I go “yeah I get it.” The thing is, after setting it up, they completely forgot what makes either character themselves or compelling so that they could be shoehorned into Cottagecore Bliss in the greenhouse and the most boring romance possible. If we're committed to doing this, I wish they’d had a weird trauma-bonded relationship in the rat pits of the subway, I would have understood that. Supported it even, tbh. Let them be weird and feral together, yelling and emoting at each other over eastbound vs westbound trains. Instead, Five, who for the past three seasons has been driven by his need to save his family, is happy to delay returning and give up on them to keep very quietly playing house with Lila. What the fuck. Lila, who cannot handle domestic life with Diego and her three children, can handle being a housewife with Five and wear soft sweaters and dresses. They didn’t try to kill each other once! I said way back after S3 aired that I didn’t like Lila’s pregnancy plot because it was going to tie her down in weird ways, and lo and behold! UA writers cannot write women, and it sucks that Lila was yet another casualty of that.

And then the whole thing shafts Diego. I know Diego and Lila don’t have a particularly healthy relationship, but he’s an Umbrella and Lila’s mom is the Handler. I think they do pretty well for what they’re working with, they have a fun chemistry, and it seemed (before this season) they really loved each other. Why did Steve write them off instead of letting their arc be them falling back in love (well, I guess that was Diego’s arc. Wasn’t Lila’s)? Now the three of them get to spend the final episode of the entire show in an unhappy, unnecessary love triangle instead of us getting to watch the Umbrella Academy fully join together to save the world one last time.

After all of that, the rest of my complaints feel like small potatoes. Why don’t we do another numbered list to round out this essay. In no particular order –

It sucks Ben was the plot driver of the season and then doesn’t even get to die with his family, just melted and turned into mindless Cleanse Goo. I was excited for him to get to do more, was excited for a payoff for Viktor trying to return the favor of Umbrella Ben sacrificing himself for him. I wish the Cleanse was more squiddy because it was made out of the two squiddiest characters.

UA has gotten more and more flexible with powers as the seasons have gone, but I straight up do not know what Allison’s power was at the end. Was she telekinetic? Was she Rumoring reality? Why did we have to use that to graphically crush a man’s balls in front of Claire? I liked that the powers got an upgrade and a twist, for the most part, but that only works if we know what they are. Lila has laser eyes and I thought that was it until they needed her to mimic powers again in the last episode. Five can’t blink anymore because he now just goes to the subway (still an aesthetic that is cool, and a cool way to have it tied in a different way to time), unless he’s doing it with Lila? Viktor just has energy now, I guess, sound doesn’t seem to be part of it.

Abigail. I did not fully follow what her motivation was. I wanted her to be comically evil, worse than Reggie, but – again- UA writers can’t write women so I guess she was just a good guy benevolently taking skin suits so she could get the world to end to save the world. Boring. Reggie also should have recognized his wife even if she was wearing Gene and kissed Nick Offerman.

Why didn’t Five have a reaction to his Apocalypse? He had PTSD flashbacks in S1! He was trapped there for four decades! It’s been six years but it’s not like he was working on his mental health during that time. No reaction???? Don’t even get me started on Delores and his “Good thing I’ve never been married” comment.

I’m not usually for fan service, but it felt like the season was actively trying to avoid fan service. Was Gene and Jean’s dance really the only dance party of the season? Five doesn’t have a single fight scene to fun music? Five doesn’t kill anyone all season??? What the fuck.

I wish the Fives in the Five Diner were Sean Sullivan. Bring back Old Five, why would Five fuck up his jump back in every timeline.

The gratuitous fat shaming. It’s always been bad with Luther, but absolutely ridiculous the comments made about Diego.

I don’t particularly like Sloane but where the fuck was Sloane. And I hope Ray not being in the show was a scheduling conflict, because that was tragic that he off-screen left Allison with no further explanation or context. Didn’t feel very Ray.  

A lot of character arcs from over the whole show stagnate or go backwards. Luther is back at the Academy after working to build his own identity. Klaus I guess has to be on drugs if he has his powers. I don’t know what’s going on with Allison and Claire’s relationship – it seems bad at the beginning but just sort of fixes itself when they go rescue Klaus? Diego tries to have an arc to understand how much good he has with his family, but the writers won’t let Lila be part of that. Don't get me started on Five.

I wish the writing team cared enough to actually know the characters. Luther’s powers aren’t tied to him being gorilla’d – that was a separate event, why would the marigolds re-gorilla him. Lila likes bracelets, one of the very first things she did in the show was take and keep the one Diego made. It’s little things, but they go a long way in making us know the creative team cares, rather than just jerking around these characters because they have an idea the think is funny or shocking and requires characters to go against their established personalities and motivations to pull off.

Overall – it was fine, which is not the energy you want when finishing one of the most popular shows on one of the biggest streaming platforms. I get why people are upset, I get a lot of mourning is happening, but I hope we can find a spot where we can enjoy what we have and play in the space again.

It was always going to be a rough goodbye. This show, as cliché as it is, changed my life. I started writing because of it. I’ve made some incredible friends because of it. It helped me figure out I was trans, because of Elliot Page. I’m going to miss it. I’m going to keep hanging around here having fun with the characters, but I’ll miss the fandom, too, as people move on to whatever the next new thing is.

It's been a ride, everyone!