#nesta is with cassian in canon do you see me shipping them?

[achaotichuman]

Y'all canon really aint that serious.

[justthinkinboutbooks]

It is absolutely wild to me that there are people out there who read all 4.5 ACOTAR books and then read Azriel's bonus chapter and went, "WHATTT??? Elain and Azriel? Since when do they like each other???"

Like how did you miss that, babe? Sure, their attraction wasn't as in your face as Nesta and Cassian's, who are two extroverts that wear their hearts on their sleeves--the exact opposite of Elain and Az--but all the signs were there.

If it came as a surprise, then you missed something. You didn't pick up what SJM was putting down because the BC wasn't written to introduce us to that potential pairing. It already existed.

And look, Elriel doesn't have to be your ship, but they are canonically interested in each other and have been for a while. The BC did not "end" whatever attraction there is between them. Its purpose was to show was to see that attraction in action.

If you didn't see Elain and Azriel coming, that's on you.

[lovemyromance]

SJM: I thought it was obvious??

AKA - No analysis needed. The clues are there. Things are already happening.

Please keep your 80 page PowerPoints and highlighted words from your “8 books of canon” (none of which are actually from ACOTAR, btw) to yourself.

“I thought it was obvious” = no deep dives needed. No extrapolation or analysis necessary. The words are already on the page. You don’t have to work harder than SJM to come up with your own theories (*cough* see HOFAS crazy hype theories vs actual book)

“I thought it was obvious”

The ONLY couple currently mutually attracted to each other is Elriel. They have had moments since ACOMF. ACOSF did not end them, it gave them the setup for the next book. They are set up for the greatest tortured forbidden romance of the series, how can you dispute that? Why would you WANT to dispute that love story? I don’t want ACOSF 2.0 which was all physical and no substance. I want an angsty, slow forbidden romance. I want to fall in love when the characters fall in love. Elriel will give us that.

“I thought it was obvious”

The other ships do NOT exist on the page at the moment. Elucien, I will give credit to because they are still mates so that COULD happen still. But right now, where ACOSF ended, they had barely even seen each other in a year. The only romantic coded interactions have been between Azriel & Elain thus far.

“I thought it was obvious”

Elucien & Gw*riel have not shared any romantic moments. There is no romance between them at this current time in the series. I am not talking about “what could happen” or “what could Sarah be setting up” because she said it was obvious. That means it’s there already. There’s no reason to hypothesize and theorize about ships that don’t currently exist in the book. Because - and say it with me-

“I thought it was obvious”

What is obvious about elucien? Other than the fact that they are mates. That’s it. That’s all they have. Not even a conversation on the page. Not even a shared shy glance or brush of their fingers. It’s the equivalent of an arranged marriage neither of them seems to want. Analyzing 20 sentences about flowers and sunlight, going out of your way to prove feyre is an “unreliable” narrator when she questions the bond (but Cassian, fashion police of Velaris, is a very very reliable narrator)-Why? Is any of that obvious to the casual reader? No.

“I thought it was obvious”

I’m not even going to spend many words talking about Gw*nriel, as I don’t see it as anything more than a crackship. They have like 4 platonic interactions. Friendly. Banter, sure. But not all banter is a clue that people are predestined soulmates. Most people who read their interactions are not going to overanalyze spark and glow and shadow behavior. They shouldn’t have to because - again - none of that is obvious.

“I thought it was obvious”

Shy glances and subtle scenes in the background wasn’t enough for those who claim to be reading experts. So SJM released a bonus chapter where in clear black and white text, you see both Azriel and Elain desperate for each other. This man is willing to BEG on his knees for a taste of her/ the end. Why would you even want him with anyone else after that?

“I thought it was obvious”

All these characters I’ve mentioned have been supporting characters this entire series. Nothing concerning them is going to happen in someone else’s book-but the seeds have been sewn. Any scene with Elain could have been written with Lucien or her sisters instead of Azriel - but it wasn’t.

Ex: when majda says, “if anyone can figure out what’s wrong, it’s a mate”

Lucien is THERE. Feyre is THERE. Nesta is THERE. But who figures it out - not her mate, nor her sisters - Azriel.

Lucien could’ve shown her the garden, feyre could’ve sat with her and listened to Elain’s garden plans till 3am - but no - it was Azriel.

And this man is the only one in the NC I’m convinced that has an actual job and responsibilities. So he is choosing to spend what little free time he has with ELAIN. What’s not clicking, folks?

“I thought it was obvious”

Sarah-we love her-but she is Queen of cliches. Her writing is not some insane thriller level that has you gasping every page turn. She likes threes, she likes happy endings, she likes her male LIs desperate for their female counterparts. The answer to Amarantha’s riddle was LOVE. CC had “through love all is possible”.

You really think she wrote the line “hoped love would trump even a mating bond” and it meant nothing?

SJM doesn’t do anything easy. But she said it was obvious- because it IS.

[lifeisabiscuit]

It will never not bother me how people are like Elain doesn't owe Lucien anything, she doesn't want him, he should take a hint, leave her alone and stop stalking her (even though he moved to the human lands and only comes when requested and doesnt even see her everytime hes there or at solstice where he kindly brings gifts for her and Feyre and she barely acknowledges it. Like, no girl the gifts don't make him entitled to your affections but aren't you supposed to be the kind sister? He hasn't done anything wrong). Even in canon, Feyre barely tries to meddle in their relationship (or lack thereof) and even questions why not give Elain and Azriel a bond instead. They never clear up that he was not the reason they were taken (and neither was Tamlin but of course they would let them keep blaming him instead of taking responsibility for their part), they just dangle her in front of him to make him compliant and keep doing things for them (sounds a lot like what they did to his brother with Nesta).

But then, when Nesta clearly makes it known she wants nothing to do with Cassian (like Elain has about Lucien), they let him follow her around and lock her in a house with him. Don't even get me started on the bonus chapter where he cornered a human woman and asked about her virginity. No matter what Nesta wanted, Cassian wanted Nesta so they had to be together, ignoring every thing she's said and every sign she's made that she wanted him to leave her alone. No, let's lock them up together instead and force proximity. I don't care if deep deep down she wanted him too, she told him to leave her alone. He found glee in locking her up with him where she could not go anywhere without him. And so many people think this is romantic and goals? They think Nesta deserved to have her wants ignored because Cassian wanted her.

I don't believe the problem was that Nesta was sleeping around, but because she wasn't sleeping with Cassian and he was throwing a pity party. Because as soon as she started sleeping with him even though that was another of her vices, all of a sudden no one had an issue with it.

Like, it seems like just another way to punish Lucien for 'not helping Feyre' against a high lord (something everyone excuses Cassian from because Rhys is his high lord) and punish Nesta for being a child "letting" her sister hunt (even though Feyre made her mom a promise and was never going to listen to Nesta whether she told her not to anyways).

Cassian didn't even really want Nesta more than physically, they had to break her to make her more what he wanted and then he never even said he loved her. He wanted a mate, Nesta wanted Cassian. And the thing is, I don't even have a preferred Elain ship, I just want Lucien to stop being toyed with. But I don't think Lucien even wants a mate, so I could see him actually falling for Elain for who she is, not just her beauty. If anyone would give him a chance. Like, even if she still wants to break the bond, at least talk to him.

I dunno, The double standard between how people treat the sisters is annoying.

[acourtofthought]

hi, so.. i'm genuinely curious. why do you ship gwyn and azriel? because for me, i don't think gwyn has shown any romantic interest in azriel, and even he himself thinks they're not close enough to be friends. do you think sjm is going to throw all of elriel's moments away in previous books just for a ship built off of a spark in the chest and a private dagger lesson which happened off page?

because if she does, i think it will be fan service. major fan service.

thank you.

You say all the E/riel moments but if you really care about what I have to say (as you felt the need to message me) I hope you'll actually pay attention to the things I'm telling you.

It's not all the E/riel moments. It's all the E/riel moments that were almost instantly followed up by Az's fixation on someone else or lack of true interest on his part.

Az figured out Elain was a Seer? He then went on and agreed that they shouldn't bother following through on her visions.

Az announced he'd get Elain back only after Cassian first said they'd get her back? He went on to disobey Feyre's orders to get Elain to safety so he could stay behind and save Feyre, risking Elain's life in the process. He also said he'd be the one who could also take Briar though it was Elain who helped save her, something Az never acknowledged. Just like he never acknowledged her saving him too when kicking the hounds and Cassian, Nesta when she stabbed the king.

Az gave Elain TT? That's because Mor begged him to sit out of battle. He sat out of the one thing he's known for, being the first to throw himself into danger, because the female he in canon loved at the time had tears in her eyes and asked him not to enter the fight. Also, he didn't bother to check on Elain after the war or provide his condolences for the loss of her father.

Az was so sweet taking the potatoes from Elain's hand? Only a few chapters before he was relieved not to have to get her a gift to help her celebrate her first Solstice after being turned fae and he went on to stare at Mor with heat and yearning while Elain sat in the room with them.

He stared at Elain's headache powder for a year while he imagined what she'd look like during sex? He was pissy towards Helion because of Helion's question on where Mor was. He interrupted Nesta's question to Feyre on whether Elain knew about the pregnancy to ask if Mor knew. And because he STILL looks at Mor with longing glances. "Few and Far between" doesn't equal Zero. It means they still exist though to a much lesser degree......all while he's supposed to be so captivated by Elain. He didn't bother asking Elain how she was doing after her fights with Nesta, didn't bother saying he'd help her train her powers. You know, important things when it comes to endgame couples.

Not to mention Az wasn't remotely affected by Elain's catatonic state, where she was withering away. Lucien was DEVASTATED. Az drew straws so he didn't have to stay behind and guard her. THAT'S supposed to be who I want for Elain? The IC was not allowed to enter the Rite otherwise it would guarantee death to them all. Nothing prevented Az from staying with Elain to guard her.

Did you read the TOG series? Did you see how many moments existed between Dorian and Celeana? Beautiful moments too. Did you see what transpired between Celaena and Chaol? She literally tells Chaol that she'd always choose him, she says that he is her home.

Tell me how anything that happened between Az and Elain is any more poetic than what we witnessed between Celaena and Chaol yet Sarah had no problems chucking that out the window.

How about the buildup between Nesryn and Chaol? Sarah had her travel with him to the Torres Cesme, she was willing to accept him with his disability yet Sarah knocked down that house of cards in Tower of Dawn.

Dorian and Sorscha?

Feyre was engaged to Tamlin for gods sakes.

I truly don't understand how you think buildup means anything in Sarah's books. Unless two characters are mates, Sarah will easily tear down whatever buildup once existed between two non mates.

Theia and Fionn were forbidden lovers yet she went on to stand by impassioned as he was murdered only to later be willing to give up everything for Aidas, her mate.

And though you'll refuse to see it, I think Sarah already ended them on Solstice. Az and Elain were doomed from the start and there has now been 7 months that have passed from Solstice until the events of HOFAS. We are given absolutely no buildup for the E/riel ship in all that time, not since Elain returned his necklace. There has been no on page bantering between them, no longing glances, not even an indiscernible peak out of the corner of their eyes at one another.

"All the E/riel buildup" except it's already gone? E/riels entire buildup amounted to an almost kiss that never happened in a bonus chapter which makes it pretty easy for Sarah to move on from considering she tore down Feyre's engagement to Tamlin within the span of a few chapters. And Feyre and Tamlin had an entire book dedicated to them.

You can ship E/riel still, of course, but you can't honestly act like it would be difficult for an author like SJM to walk away from whatever they had going since she had no issues breaking apart multiple other characters who shared so much more.

Serious question for you.

How many books do you read where at the very start of the novel, the two characters instantly want one another?

Did Claire want Jamie at the start of Outlander? Pretty sure she was married to and in love with her husband. She also tried to escape back to said husband after marrying and sleeping with Jamie.

I just read a book where the guy ends up helping a girl who was homeless and she's worried that he'll expect sexual favors from her as she's seen happen on the streets and he says and thinks "she's not remotely my type" though of course they end up together and she's the most beautiful thing ever.

Off the top of your head I'm guessing you can't tell me 5 books where the endgame couple starts the book already in love or romantically interested in one another. So why would Az and Gwyn not being true friends yet be a problem at all?

As far as Gwyn's interest or lack thereof, I don't even need the bonus but if after 2 years and knowing what Elain did during the war he still doesn't think she's capable of handling the darkness of the trove but after a few months he believes in Gwyn's ability to make it through the Rite, it's pretty obvious who the author is setting up as his love interest. Sarah's writing and preferred behavior for her MMC with his endgame person is not difficult to spot at this point.

While we don't currently have confirmation of physical attraction (something that could easily change with a simple change of pov), we do have confirmation of curiousity on Gwyn's part. And a lot of admiration on Az's side.

How is that not a wonderful jumping off point for these two characters? Az is no stranger to lust for beautiful females but he doesn't often give them credit for standing on their own two feet. And Gwyn's curiousity about Az, a male, after what happened to her, is a huge step forward already.

Gwyn started SF not having left the library in 2 years but by the end she was fine being alone with Az on the top of the roof in the middle of the night. She was teasing him over his title, "Shadowsinger."

I'm not sure how you don't see that as being playful / flirtatious. Does that mean she's in love with Az and wants to jump his bones? No, it's just the first hints we're seeing. I'd rather only see hints of something before two characters are ready to bang one out on page before they've even had a POV and shared any sort of meaningful conversation (which Az and Elain have never done, they have never spoken about anything of true importance). That's the difference between a romance book with sex and a book with smut.

As for Az, I'd much rather wait for his romance to build on page, where he's only focused on one female, rather than the shit-show that has been the Mor / Elain situation. Where he can't even admit to his best friend that he's over Mor in the same chapter he thinks how he's not thought of a plan on how to be with Elain beyond his sexual fantasies.

Elain deserves a hell of a lot better than that. And so does Gwyn. Which is why I'm glad Az isn't romantically interested in her at this point in time. Have you ever liked a guy who was panting over you and another girl? It's really not the romance E/riels like to pretend it is and I'd rather Az truly come to terms with his past with Mor and letting her go (something that he has not fully done) before he shows any romantic interest for his endgame person. But with Gwynriel I see that future potential. The banter already exists, she's a bit bloodthirsty like Az, she's seen him slaughter which means she's seen a little what Az is capable of versus how he's behaved around Elain, and his shadows are happy around her (which is better than how Az notes they tend to vanish around Elain after telling us how they're his companions). Not to mention Az won't suffer being around someone who already has a mate and will forever have that mate.

Crying fanservice because you don't get your way rather than paying attention to the author you're reading is a copout and I hope you respect Sarah's writing more than that.

[oristian]

Why do you not ship Elriel? I just love all of their little moments

For a variety of reasons. I want to first begin by saying that, if I believed without a doubt that Elain and Azriel were endgame, I would still ship my ships, but I would always emphasize that I know my ships are not endgame. I have always been that way—I follow the direction that the media is going. If the books cemented an Elriel endgame, I would not create as much content as I have; I would not have even joined the fandom.

I always say that how I read the books was the backbone of why I ship Elucien and Gwynriel so heavily. I read all five books within a span of a little over a week, back-to-back. I did not have years in-between reading them, so all of my opinions and theories were answered in a timely manner. I do think that the festering in the fandom and the years stretch between the source material is what drives so much tension—there is not anything new, so people create their own material. It is almost like a crush; the longer you sit with it, the more drawn out it becomes.

As for Elain and Azriel, I just never felt anything when reading their scenes. There was no connection, no chemistry, no tension, et cetera. It was easy to forget their scenes as they read so platonic. Especially in ACOMAF. In ACOWAR, I never picked up on anything romantic happening between them, but I did notice scenes between them. The one scene I did find to be touching was the Truth Teller scene, but I was so focused on Nesta and Cassian that nothing else really stood out to me. I could easily see what the author was doing and it was very similar to Twilight. Everyone knew that Bella and Edward were endgame, but New Moon came around and gave the readers Bella and Jacob, just to test the waters. However, it was obvious that nothing more would happen between them and we would just have to wait for Edward to return. Very similar to what happened in ACOWAR. Lucien was removed and Elain had scenes with Azriel, but we all know she will end up with Lucien. It’s just how books work.

When I read ACOSF, I did not realize that more books were coming, nor that this began a spin-off. I was under the impression that that was the final book in the series. I was still rooting for Elain and Lucien and just assumed they’d get together in the background. When Azriel and Gwyn started interacting, I believed that they would be a background couple that got together at the end of the book. It was just so obvious. I ended up joining the fandom about four months later and found out about the bonus chapter and felt sick reading the first half, seeing how Azriel thought of himself and how just wrong he and Elain were, only to see the juxtaposition of the second half with him and Gwyn and how calm he became. That further cemented to me that Gwyn and Azriel were happening.

There is no harm in shipping whatever you want to ship. I still ship noncanon couples; everyone does. I think what further drives me away from Elain and Azriel is the fanon mischaracterization of both of their personalities and how the scenes between them are given so much agency in fandom when … it does not exist in the books. (Plus, the NSFW-ization of certain scenes that should not be romanticized) I think fanon Elriel is much more interesting than canon Elriel and I have found myself really liking some fanart and such of them—I could ship fanon Elriel just fine because it’s interesting. If that was what was in the books, I would struggle to ship my ships.

Sorry, this was so long aha!

[iocaisaint]

Random ACOTAR takes

cw*: my unsolicited opinions

I agree with #that woman that canon Lucien and Nesta (and I mean pre-ACOSF) would've been terrible for each other sorry

As of right now Nesta is the only Archeron sister with direct connection to the Dusk Court, like her and her alone 🤷🏾‍♀️

Out of the love square (?) Lucien is lowkey the only one with a storyline that isn't made out of paper mache and hope. There's so many angles you could go: Beron, Eris, LOA, The Autumn Court or Spring Court, Tamlin, or Day Court, Helion, being an heir, or helping Vassa with Koschei + his overall friendship with Jurian + Vassa + humans as a whole and that's without touching on the mating bond even once. Real set-up wished she'd done that with everyone else

That being said, I disagree with a bunch of Lucien's stans when it comes to his characters, y'all have a power fantasy for him that's in direct contradiction to how he's actually written (I mean I get it the books treat him like trash)

If Nesta is pregnant I'll have a crash out to end all crash outs.

Everybody in this fandom bar maybe Feysands are shipping fanon, the scenes that y'all talk about and the ones that exist on page are either not the same or straight up don't exist.

I hate the HK/HQ plot even for Nesta, like is blatant colonialism.

Everybody here is a hypocrite when it comes to their faves we'd all be happier admitting then bending over backwards.

I do not care for Elain, simply because fanon Elain is so far removed from what's on page, that most her pro arguments simply don't make sense to me.

There's no reason for Helion to give up his Pegasi but I know HOFAS was a mess but when the place was revitalised after the Asteri were murdered they came back, my guess is that place and the prison are mirror worlds so the same will happen once the Prison is liberated

Azriel isn't boring but he also isn't extremely interesting. If he was a girl no one would gaf about him, but there are enough concepts of an idea where I could see his book not being awful.

Neither the pro or the anti side gives a fuck about Emerie, double points if you're engaging in that ship war. No I won't expand on this, I'm right.

Nessian sucks, that's all.

Actually no I'm expanding on that point, the fact that people defend no "I love you" from the MMC is crazy, that fact that people defend Nesta being threatened without Cass stepping in even worse, the fact that Rhys knows he can berate Nesta in Cassian's presence....like they had an 800+ page book and I'm still having to hear about how they need to "grow as characters" y'all aren't serious people

I've become more neutral-positive to Feyre because some of the arguments against her are just crazy but on that note she'd be deeply more entertaining if the narrative wrote her refusal for self reflection as a flaw

Gwyn cannot be a evil light singer and irrelevant at the same time please pick one.

Also I don't hate the light singer theory, sorry. Monsters not actually being monsters is this series's bread and butter. It'd be great if a woman finally got that treatment

I can already tell Eris is about to be retconned to hell because SJM hates a character not being vindicated by the narrative to redeem them (she already started by implying Eris wants his father dead for #feminism). Let it be known I like/d him as is

I don't get into arguments about Rhys cause I find him boring. Y'all are fighting day in day out about faerie Ronald Reagan

Nesta should've been bi, how tf did we get stuck with Mor

I have more but that's it for now.

[offtorivendell]

Do you think Nesta/Cassian have a true mate bond or a corrupt cauldron bond? I see a lot of people say they think Eris is her true mate and some people say the complete opposite 😅

Hi anon!

Disclaimer: more word vomit I'm sorry.

TW: discussion includes birthing winged babies and all that entails. If this is a sore topic for you, then I recommend giving this a pass. 💜

Spoilers: I'll be discussing the entire Maasverse, please beware.

I think both Nessian and Feysand have true or soul bonds, which I suspect may be a type of carranam bond, rather than corrupted Cauldron bonds.

Whether or not true/soul bonds are equivalent to carranam bonds - though as I have said before, it appears the sisters may have powers "to match" the brothers (per ACOSF) - it would make ZERO sense for Feyre and Nesta to be mated to Rhys and Cassian respectively for the sole purpose of creating more powerful offspring, given the risk to mother and child when a winged bub is born to a woman with the (I'm sorry) incorrectly shaped uterus/birth canal. And wasn't there a 50/50 chance of a winged baby, with a full Illyrian procreating with a high fae female? Those aren't great odds for the Asteri. But both couples do share bonds consisting of multiple golden threads, ergo: I suspect they share the true or soul bonds about which @silverlinedeyes and @icedflames originally theorised years ago now.

Personally - and imo this was supported by HOFAS, with what we learnt of Hunt's ancestry and design - I lean towards Feysand, Nessian and Elriel all being foretold as a way to free their land from the magical chains left by the Asteri/Daglan of the past. I think that what is most important is the pairing's ability to support each other, and make each other more powerful, rather than to create stronger children from which the Daglan can feed, hence why they complement each other's magic so well and, if I'm right about them being carranam, they can act as conduits for each other as well, further amplifying their strengths.

To complete the poetic balance of 3x3 being fated, I think Elriel were also meant to have a true/soul bond until Koschei (or Someone) loaned his (or Their) otherworldly magic to the King of Hybern*, allowing him to control the Cauldron. This hypothetical, new ability to Make powerful spells, combined with Azriel being downed by Jurian's poisoned ash arrow to the chest, may have created an opening for the corrupted Cauldron to cast a thread between Elain and the next best male, Lucien.

* My thoughts are that Koschei is either a prince of Hel and/or a Valg-type creature (how that plays in with the Daglan I'm unsure), and the King of Hybern was possessed in a way similar to what we experienced in TOG. But if the King of Hybern was a Valg prince, or had the borrowed powers of a Valg king (or queen), then it is not out of the realm of possibility that he could have tweaked the threads of fate to generate a false bond between Elain and Lucien in order to keep Elain and Azriel apart, as Maeve did between Rowan and Lyra to separate him from his true mate, Aelin. There are great theories that delve into the parallels between Elriel and Rowaelin, I recommend checking out @riddlecrux (I'm 99% sure).

It's always fun to theorise, so as always, no hate to anyone who thinks differently than me - shipping with your heart is absolutely valid, even if your fav pairing doesn't end up being canon - but I really do not think that SJM is splitting her loved up pairs with accepted mating bonds. This goes for Feysand, Nessian and Bryceriel Quinlar (hooray fatigue), all of whom have made strong declarations of love for each other. That would cheapen SJM's romances so much.

Besides that, while I understand focusing on ships - because this is romantasy after all, and the couples are integral to the overall plot - I don't see how Nesta and Eris would work into the poetry of a prophecy that we already know:

Life and death and rebirth

Sun and moon and dark

Rot and bloom and bones

Hello, sweet thing. Hello, lady of night, princess of decay. Hello, fanged beast and trembling fawn. Love me, touch me, sing me.

Madness. Where the first half had been cold cunning, this box … this was chaos, and disorder, and lawlessness, joy and despair. [...] Rhys picked up the Book of Breathings.

Light and dark and gray and light and dark and gray— - ACOMAF, chapter 57

The Book of Breathings gave us this beauty back in ACOMAF, and while there are many attempts to make sense of it (and I think many could be right), if we're talking about romantic pairings, I don't see how it could encompass any ships other than those of the brothers and sisters present. Where would the balance be in that? While there are certainly plots that people have theorised for pairings other than these three (and of course, I acknowledge that Elriel isn't canon endgame at this point in time), I haven't read any that would tie into the themes of three we have seen established by SJM: sisters, brothers, mountains, stars etc.

Eris is an intriguing character and Neris a fun ship (I don't hate it at all), but in canon it wouldn't flow, at least to me. Though of course I could be wrong.

Anyway, sorry for the mess of this response. I hope my thoughts make at least some sense lol.

Edit: I was about to post and then @wingedblooms and her beautiful mind struck again. Anon - and anyone else - please read her reblog of my post about the Asteri corrupting mating bonds, it's beautifully written and I have similar thoughts (as usual).

[elrielffs]

The amount of hypocrisy I see in this fandom is RIDICULOUS. "I dont like elain because shes boring and bland. az deserves someone who is strong and not a flower girl." I guarantee you that once that next book comes out.... bro, many people are going to switch up so bad. They did this with nesta. Mind you, people HATED nesta and now when nesta book came out, everyone switched up and started hating feyre, rhys, cassian, and the inner circle. its so laughable.

And with elain not being a warrior or fierce girl bootok seems to love 24/7... because 2 b really h... YALL ARE THE BLAND ONES. We need something different for once! Like i love the badass fmc but bro, lets see a different fmc for once.!

It really is.

I def agree that we will see a switch up on Elain when her book is out for sure, if they bother to read it when their ship doesn't happen.

It always amazes me that people think there is nothing deeper to Elain than we have witnessed so far--that she is entirely surface level and SJM will not flesh her out even though she's dropped HEAVY HEAVY hints about it.

Also, I don't get why people hate on Elain so much when they are trying to steal her plots, her friends, her family, her place in the IC? Most antis really want Elriel/Elain but without Elain and a Frankenstein not even accurate/canon Gwyn in her place.

And as for Eluciens? They want Elain to be a side character in her own book and just support Lucien and strip all her choices she is making and just be as boring and bland as they imagine her to be.

I always found people who switched up on the IC and Feysand really gullible or influenceable. You got 4 books of people loving the IC and Feysand (or those people that for some reason hate read the trilogy because what do you mean you read the whole series but hated Feyre????) but suddenly they are shown in a less than positive light and it's fuck them, they're awful?

And I'm not saying they are above criticism or they never make mistakes but that's what good characterization and narrative tension are made of! Nobody wants to read a book where everyone always says/does the right thing and everyone gets along.

AND YES. I really feel the shift happening in the genre. People are tired of the girl bosses. I'm so excited for Elain and her gentle femininity.

It really feels sometimes like people in the fantasy/romantasy genre can't like a female character unless she shows male/masculine traits. (People are also wayyyy more forgiving of male characters than female. Elain v. Azriel being a good point) Not that being a warrior is inherently male but that it's more traditional but all that's a whole separate topic.

But anyways, I feel like the genre is ready for FMC's like Elain and when her book is here people will be singing a different tune and we'll see the switch up on Elain like we did with Nesta.

And more books will have FMC's like Elain because SJM is THE romantasy author and sets the trends.

[darklinaforever]

Why do I see a lot of people who are fans of Gwynriel and Elucien getting excited about the bonus chapter of the new SJM book when in fact there is absolutely nothing about these ships in there... Seriously, they're becoming embarrassing with so much.

Like, the disillusionment they're going to have when Elriel becomes canon is going to be crazy and honestly I'm kind of looking forward to seeing it. No, because they become ridiculous with their ships fanon.

We're tired of this excuse about "but they're soul mates" when it was proven in SJM's ACOTAR that soul mates don't always work.

Damn, in several books Lucien and Elain have not had any positive interactions and don't even want to see each other otherwise they are uncomfortable. DO PEOPLE CAN READ ?!

Once a pro Elucien told me that it's not because Azriel and Elain spend time together that they will be endgame, like... Yes, it's certain that SJM will make Elain end up with a guy that she avoided several books. You have to wake up after a while.

Then, recently I saw people saying that Elriel interpreted lust as equal to love, because it's obvious that Azriel only feels sexual attraction to Elain. Like... in several books we only had one scene like this, everything else showed them spending time together, respecting each other, listening to each other, etc. Damn, Azriel kept Elain's gift without touching it and simply looked at it every night for a whole year but yes he only feels sexual attraction to her. These people really need to wake up, because they look so ridiculous.

Also, I love the fact that they act like it's not a particularity of SJM that its male characters are turned on to death by the women they love. Like... did you see Cassian's thoughts about Nesta ?! But yes, act as if Azriel was a perverse exception...

These people are pathetic and can't read. Once again, I can't wait to see the disillusionment they will face when Elriel becomes canon as has been planned for several books !

[nikethestatue]

One of the most common questions that we--Elriels--ask for the past going on 4 years, is HOW. How can (you) not see Elriel? How can (you) not see the buildup throughout the books? How do (you) not see the development of their relationship? HOW? Because, in the words of the author, it's pretty obvious.

We've heard things like 'SJM changed her mind!' 'SJM is a fated mates author!' (we'll come back to that later) 'SJM set up a new ship in the bonus chapter!' "Gwyn and Azriel are so similar and have the same powers! They are equals!' "Gwyn and Azriel have banter!!!' 'It's only lust between Azriel and Elain!'

And that brings me to Nesta and Cassian.

Nesta and Cassian had a whole VERY long book. We've all read it. It's a book of lust and love between the two of them. Of LOTS of banter. Of sex. Of becoming 'equals' and Nesta taking on military-style training, becoming an Oristian to Cassian's Carynthian. We find out that Nesta's been madly in love with Cassian since the moment she saw him. We get 'golden threads' binding them on Solstice and them being revealed as fated mates.

You might say--yes, we know all this! why are you wasting our time with the synopsis?

I'll explain.

Lately, especially post HOFAS, I've been seeing more and more 'theories' about how Nessian is a 'fake bond' and that Nesta and Cassian aren't actually mates. No. Apparently, the Cauldron, enraged at Nesta stealing some of its power, threw out a fake mate bond at her and Cassian as a curse and in retaliation. She's been shackled to Cassain. Whereas her one true love is Eris. Her real mate. And in the next Nesta book, Cassian is going to get killed and Nesta will move on to Eris and live happily ever after.

Which brings me to another couple--Bryce and Hunt. Who are chosen mates and who've gone through unimaginable trials and hardships, only for people to ship Bryce with Azriel (unironically). In this case, we had the same story--the Quinlar bond was fake. Hunt was going to die. Bryce would find happiness with Azriel.

The same people who foam at the mouth with 'ELUCIEN are fated mates and SJM is a fated mates author' are writing metas about how Nessian have a fake bond. The same people who scream about Gwynriel's 'BANTER!' and how they are equals, now say that the Nesta and Cassian have nothing in common, and apparently, she has more in common with...Eris?

And my point is simple--no matter what SJM says or writes, there will always be absolutely deranged detractors of everything that is canon, of everything that she had said, of everything that's been published.

So, it's not us. It's actually them. We are not the crazy ones who happen to read the text and come up with logical conclusions. We are not the ones who don't have 'reading comprehension'. We are not the ones 'who've never read a romance'. We are not the ones who 'never had a relationship'. No. We simply read what SJM put down on paper and we have a rational approach to canon.

But it also means that even if she made an announcement TODAY, saying out loud, online, in writing--the next book will be Elain's and she will be paired with Azriel--there will still be thousands of people out there denying it. They will be coming up with scenarios of how that will absolutely, definitively, 100% never happen.

In this fandom, fanon rules. Not the author's own words. Not the books. Not any logical conclusion. Not anything rational.

The more I see of this nonsense, the more I understand why SJM pulled away and why no matter what she says, she will be disregarded and people will flock to BookTok and listen to insane 'theories', disseminate them and then argue until someone gets a heart attack about how the theory is 'correct'.

Basically, cheer up Elriels. You ain't crazy. Don't let anyone gaslight you into believing that you are wrong. You are every, very right.

[theshadowsingersraven]

It’s interesting to me that E/riels often bring up Elain’s agency, but overwhelmingly have no issue with the lack of agency Nesta had in her relationship with Cassian, or how Rhys and Feyre’s relationship started with a kidnapping. Or they insist Gwyn can’t have a relationship because she’s a rape survivor, but that somehow doesn’t apply to Rhys’s abuse by Amarantha. Fandom (and this is a widespread issue, not specific to ACOTAR) can never just say “I don’t like this ship” anymore. They always have to bend over backwards to make it problematic and immoral. I prefer Elucien because I think it’d be something new, while E/riel feels too close to Feysand and Nessian. That’s really it! I don’t see the need to insist it’s the morally correct choice, or to twist canon to paint E/riel as abusive and shippers as abuse apologists. Can we all just calm down?

I got this before Elaingate and forgot it was sitting in my drafts lol

EXACTLY. I feel like because of the prevalence of unspoken or sometimes fully spoken online morality litmus tests puts people in a mindset of "I have to have a reason to like/not like something or someone is going to say I'm wrong."

Which I don't fully blame people for, but I definitely would like them to be a bit more self-aware about it? Like...why are we bringing someone's actual personality to what they enjoy in fantasy? That's the point of fantasy, it's not real. It's a safe avenue to explore things you normally wouldn't in real life.

I think there's a unique aspect to this fandom that leans super conservatively and rigidly to canon. There's very little gay representation, and every time people try to invalidate Gwynriel based on Gwyn's trauma because "Az is kinky" without realizing that kink is not just Christian Grey's Room of Pain or whatever tf it's called. Kink can be very empowering for survivors and can help them heal through having very clear sexual boundaries, dynamics, and safe words. It's exposure to sex that stops when they want it to, and that can be so healing.

I think a big issue in this fandom is that people are trying to use real-life comparisons to fictional characters on a morality scale, while completely glossing over their psychological complexity. Especially to invalidate or validate ships. It's just giving half-baked arguments online with the equivalent of rumor-mill-level veracity information to people about characters that fans can't analyze thoroughly.

I just can't take a lot of people in this fandom seriously when they get so up-in-arms. People can just say "ship bad" and go on their way, but they definitely do not lmao.

[nestastits]

I just want to let yall know that even though I’m an elucien and gwynriel person, elriels are welcome to follow me and interact with my page so long as everyone is respectful to each other. And I say this because most of the time when I see threats regarding the ship war, it’s always an elriel saying something horrible about sjm or people who ship elucien/gwynriel. Not saying that there aren’t some bad eluciens/gwynriels out there, it’s just everytime I’ve personally received hate or seen on another post that has to do with the ship war it’s always been an elriel😭. But this goes for any of the characters/ship stans cause some of yall be crazy lols. I’ve seen “Feyre stans” tell Nesta fans that they should die bc they must be an abuser too😭. I’ve seen “Nesta Stans” tell Feyre Stans or ic stans that they should go die for liking “abusers”.

I at the end of the day like ALL of the acotar characters☺️. And I appreciate each of them for their depths and diversity. It pains me to see people in this fandom think they can only like one character and the rest must be shitted on. If you can’t like more than one character, or if you don’t like any of the main characters to the point of not liking the books or sjm, please stop reading the books😭. That is just plain stupidity to continue with the books and be in the fandom if you literally hate everything. Go be miserable with yourself and stop projecting onto others in the fandom. And stop putting the characters up against each other, especially when in canon they all try to uplift one another and don’t have as much beef as what fanon creates between them 😭.

But the point of this post is to say everyone is welcomed here so long as they are respectful to each other and to me.

The only people I’d rather not have here are anti Nesta’s, anti Cassian’s, and anti Nessian’s. I love Nesta and cassian as individuals and as a ship and I don’t want to see unnecessary and stupid hate against them. 😭. Also anti Valkyrie people, if you hate them please just block me now.

[chairofchaos]

Don’t even begin to think that my Azris obsession keeps me from shipping them with other characters.

Eris x Thesan? Listen… I’ve thought about this way too much I HAVE THOUGHTS.

Azriel x Gwyn? Imagine the SPARRING. UGH.

Eris x Cassian? UNDERRATED. (I have a lot to say about this one)

Azriel x Suriel? THEY WOULD KNOW EVERYTHING.

Eris x Nesta? I would have believed it in canon.

Azriel x Elain? YEAH LETS DO IT

Eris x Rhys? Missed opportunity. Let them be free.

Azriel x Cassian x Rhys? LETS GO TO THE BIRCHIN, BITCH

Eris & Azriel (PLATONIC OR NOT) x some peace and quiet? IDEAL.

AND FOR DUSK: Thesan, getting to date whoever he wants, and if that means Eris or Azriel or BOTH, I'm in. Let me know what you want your bb to see when we chat next. I can't wait to hear about it. <3

I’m out here making my babies fall in love and kiss people and get their hearts broken. Be a good little fandom freak. Fuck around and find out. Or, you know, make your characters FAAFO. It’s always more fun that way.

[gwandas]

Hey! I saw your Nessian commission and I think it’s beautiful art. I was wondering what your stance is on Nessian because I found it intriguing. I know you’re very Cassian critical (me as well). How do you manage it while still holding love for and engaging with the ship? I have a hard time doing it (as a former nessian shipper) and it made me wonder. What parts of Nessian do you enjoy, what makes it still worthy of love, what do you wish for them in the future? Such interesting topics.

Anyway love your blog have a nice day!

Hello!!

Uh honestly I don't love it 😅 and even pre-ACOSF I was neutral on both the ship and Cassian as his own character. The extent of me engaging with it is reblogging art where I think she looks hot. I commissioned that piece because I'm a big fan of that particular artist's versions of both Cassian and Nesta and I wanted to participate in a Nesta-centric event.

The redeemable parts of canon!Nessian to me are all Nesta. I'd even say all the way back in ACOMAF she was doing all the heavy lifting to make the ship look good (@ae-neon wrote this post on pre-ACOSF Nessian that I think summarizes it perfectly). I've never once doubted that she loves that man. His POV feels very empty to me compared to hers. At the end of the day, she's stuck with him, so when I'm in an optimistic mood I'll try gaslighting myself into liking it 👍🏾 it's hard though when I was never obsessed with the ship in the first place. Like, I barely read fanon!Nessian because I'm not clinging onto what the stans wished it was (and because I'm picky and can't read fics where he's the exact opposite of who he is in the book. I basically only read the post-ACOSF/HOFAS fix its where there are some consequences for canon events)

I am pretty optimistic about the Ember and Randall chapter leading to some sort of reckoning for them. Although what gives me pause is that they're probably not getting another book, so I'm not confident SJM would write something as dramatic as Nessian temporarily being apart or whatever from another character's POV. I don't know. It's the only reason I'm interested in her finally announcing what the next book will be about because I'm hoping? It'll give us some clarity on what direction Nessian is going in? It's funny because after ACOSF I was ready to move on because I assumed SJM would pull her usual move and just make them randomly healthy going forward after the atrocities committed while getting together but then she wrote HOFAS which both pissed me tf off but also gave me an ounce of hope for some actual growth for Cassian who has been the exact same guy as when we were first introduced to him but like I said that all depends on what the next book is. My Roman Empire is SJM saying her reaction to rereading ACOSF was "wow I was really mean to myself back then" which made me go HUH like,,, should I get my hopes up that she sees something wrong with what she wrote? Maybe! The HOFAS bonus chapter makes me think there's a chance.

TLDR I'm not just Cassian critical I hate his ass but she's stuck with the guy so I'm willing to make the best of it.

[acourtofthought]

Okay so scrolling the Lucien tag and not even 5 posts in I see an e/riel!

Now I’m at the point where I don’t bother to engage with them bc I do not see any point, but I am still curious. This person was saying Eluciens & Gwynriels have to twist cannon and the characters (sure Jan), but what really stuck out to me was that one of those “twists” is Azriel feeling nothing more than lust for Elain…

… where is a single shred of proof that Azriel feels more than lust? Which book, which page number? Because it’s literally explicitly stated that he’s planned nothing beyond the fantasies he’d pleasured himself to. So where is the more? I know you used to favor E/riel. Is there anything more you’d point to?

💖🧼

NTSSM my love!!!!! ❤️ I hope you've been well!

People can headcanon all they want that Az has real feelings for Elain but there is no irrefutable evidence and that's a big part of why I grew to really dislike the E/riel ship.

Az was point blank asked about his known feelings for Mor and he refused to answer. I've seen all sorts of debates about this, "he was just caught off guard!" "He doesn't like to talk about his feelings!" but again, those are all fanon theories right now. He in canon and in his POV did not admit to no longer being in love with her and was not willing to reassure one of his best friends that he wasn't about to just use his sister in-law for sex. Cassian noted his longing glances for Mor were fewer in between but that's not completely gone and we know she was traveling for much of SF. There can't be as many looks if the person isn't around.

Az was asked point blank what his plans were when it came to Elain and once again Az said nothing, followed with him thinking how he hadn't thought beyond the sexual fantasies he pleasured himself to.

Az witnessed Elain's major fight with Nesta, he knew there had been another fight prior to it and he couldn't even be bothered to ask her how she was doing once they were finally alone.

Amren reprimanded Az for not believing Elain capable and we didn't see a single shred of remorse at his doubting her.

Az in canon showed admiration for Gwyn. Az in canon has never shown admiration for Elain. Az in canon credited Nesta for her part in the war. Az in canon has never acknowledged anything Elain did in the war. Az in canon felt a spark in his chest at the thought of Gwyn's happiness. Az in canon never noted feeling a spark for Elain. Az in canon thought of Gwyn's charming irreverence and how different she is now compared to when he first met her. Az has never thought a single thing about Elain's personality or her growth. Az in canon did want to taste Elain but Az in canon also has taken many lovers over the years. Az in canon spent 1 year staring at Elain's headache powder but Az in canon spent over 500 years staring at Mor with longing. We were also told that Az is upset that he didn't get what his brothers had which does provide readers doubt to Az having real feelings for Elain. The author specifically wrote the lines she did in a way that caused many to say "he doesn't want Elain for who she is but what she is in terms of the 3 sisters / 3 brother setup". Compare that to his love for Mor which has been a plot point since book 2 (something that was even discussed in the Cassian and Nesta bonus) and there is no doubt that Az had actual feelings for her.

If a romance author can't convince the majority of her readers that the MMC actually wants the FMC beyond sex and entitlement then I have to say she's not writing a very good romance. Especially when she's not a dark romance / bully romance author (those genre's are a bit different).

Az in canon did lend Elain TT but he turned around and looked at Mor with heat and yearning while Elain sat in the room with them (so clearly the TT scene was not really meant to be romantic). Az did head to Hyberns camp to save Elain but he also told Feyre he'd save Briar while they were there. He then disobeyed Feyre's orders to get Elain to safety so he could instead stay behind for Feyre. Az would have never gotten hurt had he left when Feyre told him to, he got hurt because he didn't want to leave Feyre. He was then ready to fly back into battle while injured but only sat out after Mor begged him to.

And when we flip that, where is the proof that Elain has feelings for Az? I'm not talking about a little crush or flirtation, a willingness to hook up, I'm talking "I will sneak behind the backs of my friends and family to have a forbidden romance with Az and don't care what that means for the peace of our lands because he's worth everything to me."

Was it when she was kidnapped by the Cauldron because she thought it was Graysen? Was it when Az was about ready to pass out from his injuries and she never bothered to ask after him? Was it when she knew he was bothered by her mating bond but had zero interest in actually talking to him about it in his POV? You know, actually sharing in a real conversation with depth after a year where they both pretty much avoided one another rather than thinking hooking up was the better option? (It's giving Tamlin and Feyre who chose not to talk about everything they were dealing with UTM and instead thought banging one out was the smart choice. Sarah doesn't have her endgame couples hooking up before dealing with the hard stuff). Was it when she returned his necklace and was written to be completely indifferent to him the rest of the book? Where she showed zero evidence of sadness or mourning after Solstice?

That E/riels accuse us of twisting canon when they've got Elain as a bloodthirsty, dagger wielding, black leather wearing liar who doesn't care whose feeling she hurts is something else.

I realize that Elucien's saying Elain might have secret feelings for Lucien and is overwhelmed by her physical attraction to him which is one of the reasons she draws back is also a fanon theory right now but the difference is we have empirical evidence to back that up because it's what was revealed about every single Archeron sister to date. Where she ignored, berated, etc. her mate because she was so overwhelmed at being drawn to them (even if she didn't fully understand why that was). Sarah is a Fated Mates author along with many other Fated Mates authors. We have actual data to support that Elain and Lucien as mates will end up together and that Elain has possibly been struggling with her feelings for Lucien all this time.

And yes, there are many yet to be proven Gwynriel headcanons but how could a male feeling something spark in his chest at the simple thought of a female's happiness, a female he really only just met, be considered anything but the first hints at a future romantic pairing?

Az felt happy thinking of Gwyn feeling happy. What is the definition of love if not that?