#need max to say “my boyfriend” in s5

[hopsbyers]

it's a lumax thing

[iennoganan-aha]

I thought I was done being disappointed in stranger things. Falling out of love with a hyperfixation that brought me so much joy already sucked, but the whole Noah Shnapp shit really ruined it for me. I wasn't planning on watching or supporting season 5 anyways, but finding out Argyle won't be in s5 has really stripped away any want still buried deep in my brain man, like I'm not even slightly interested in watching illegally now. (I wasn't planning on it but curiosity is strong sometimes)

Jonathan was my favorite character, and Argyle is SO important for his character. Like putting aside how important Argyle was to the plot of s4, his importance to Jonathan was reason enough for him being there since Jonathan NEEDED him.

Argyle was the ONLY relationship he had that didn't have expectations. He could be free and loose and himself around Argyle. This isn't hate towards Will or Joyce or Nancy because he loves them and the story likes to ignore it but those relationships all come with expectations that the story has hinted at being hard for Jonathan to manage.

He loves his brother and his mom but the role he was forced into so young has really damaged him and how he views himself. The expectation to be a fatherly figure, an authority figure, a protector. I know Jonathan doesn't mind doing it because he loves his family but it's a lot of pressure and if s4 told us anything (again, even if the story likes to gloss over it for some reason) that pressure was too much for him.

And I LOVE Jancy, I love Nancy, but again s4 told us directly that in some way he feels a lot of pressure with her. He feels the need to give up on his dreams in one way or another, because it's either he goes to college with Nancy doing something he doesn't exactly wanna do, or he doesn't and he loses his girlfriend. He fears communication with her because she might get upset, at the end of s4 you can see that while he trusts Nancy and doesn't think anything is going on with Steve because he also trusts Steve, we can't deny the writers might do some lame ass love triangle bullshit this next season which will put even more pressure on Jonathan because now he might lose his girlfriend to his previous bully 🧍‍♀️

Argyle was SO healthy for Jonathan's character! He helped get Jonathan out of his comfort zone in some ways, in all 4 seasons with Argyle Jonathan was the most free and silly and acted like a teenager! He could just be a teenager with Argyle. He wasn't a supportive big brother or boyfriend or oldest son or any of the stigmatizations from his home town with Argyle, he was just Jonathan. Instead of worrying about taking care of Will, or getting a job to help pay bills or (at the time) fighting monsters, he was playing golf in the middle of a car dump with his best friend, getting high in their pizza van and having fun. I dunno, I just think it's a shame we're taking away his only friend that he isn't dating or related to.

I also fear that the did it for a reason of pushing the love triangle because let's be real if Argyle was there Jancy would just communicate. Argyle wouldn't stand for them dancing around each other and Steve being an issue he'd be like 'talk it out 👏🏼👏🏼'

Again this isn't even MENTIONING how important he is to the plot of s4 in general? Some people say he was just the comic relief and while he definitely played that role, he also is the reason half the main cast are alive?? Without Argyle; will, Mike and Jonathan would be dead! They would have no escape from the government SHOOTING THEIR HOUSE AND TRYING TO KILL THEM. they would have no transportation to find El, they'd have never even found El! They'd never have found a place to make a bathtub so El could save max, they'd never have made it back to Hawkins! He is an important character not just to Jonathan (because while I adore their friendship and this post may make it seem that way) HE IS NOT AN ACCESSORY TO JONATHAN! He was a fun character, a relavent character!

They could have done so much with him, imagine how he could have interacted with other characters? Character pair ups that could have been awesome? Steve and Argyle would be SO FUNNY! Argyle and Dustin, Argyle and Lucas bonding over neither being fucking white, Argyle and Robin being a comedy duo, Argyle and fucking Nancy having a conversation as Jonathan best friend and girlfriend respectively, or Argyle finally just meeting the girl he's heard about for a year- i dunno the possibilities are endless and the duffers are lame for not doing ANYTHING with the potential of these characters.

Oh well, I lost respect for Stranger Things a while ago, but a part of me is still passionate about the story being told and it really is a shame for Jonathan's character. But I shouldn't be surprised the writers have always kind of hated Jonathan. Those stonathan moments better be great I guess, I dunno I won't be watching it 🤷🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️

[mikesmelodrama]

eleven doesn't need a boyfriend to be happy. (an analysis)

some mlvns say bylers hate el but that just isn't correct at all?

the argument is near always that "wanting mlvn to break up means you hate el because she's happy with mike"

now, first of all: did you ever stop to think whether mike happy with el?

because maloobans also say things like "just because will likes mike doesn't mean mike has to like him back."

okay! with that same logic, just because el likes mike doesn't mean they have to stay together. their relationship has been rocky for a while. mike has trouble saying he loves el. if els feelings are unrequited in s5 (which i don't believe because i think she realised she doesn't love mike at the end of s4 and neither love each other anymore), it wouldn't make sense to keep them together.

second of all: is el the happiest she can be with mike? in s3, we see el finding herself with max who says "there's more to life than stupid boys." and el IS happy without mike, but i believe she was still in love with him in s3 and that's why they got back together. however, i think mike wanted to stay broken up at the end of s3 but was caught off guard by the love confession

i'm not even gonna get into the shitshow that was mlvn in s3 but y'all have seen it, so...

third: i'd assume most mlvn shippers are straight - therefore they're watching the relationship through a heteronormative lens, and thinking that el would need a boyfriend to be happy is a heteronormative idea.

some melvins say they want mlvn to get married and have kids, which is also a heteronormative idea.

i don't necessarily like eddie but in his wise words: "forced conformity is killing the kids."

so, what do we learn from this?

el needing to be in a relationship goes against the idea stranger things is trying to push. the idea that stranger things is saying over and over over again is that you don't need to be "normal" according to society.

for example:

dustin is disabled. will is gay. lucas is black. max is (likely) disabled in s5 if she wakes up. joyce is a single mom. robin is gay. jonathan is bullied. murray believes in alien conspiracies.

obviously, all of those things (except the alien conspiracy lol) are normal but in the 80's they weren't treated as such, or even now.

with characters like that, is ST really going to push a relationship like mlvn to be endgame? NO.

you don't need to be in a straight, unhappy relationship because it's what society wants you to do. you can be a freak, and just because a boy and a girl are friends, doesn't mean they need to be together.

also, "boy finds traumatized girl in woods, takes her under his wing, they fall in love, end of story."

does that sound like what's best for el? because when you think about it, el doesn't need mike and vice versa. she hasn't needed him since she moved in with the byers, because she has a loving family & friends. mike isn't the only important person in her life.

and having els arc to be diluted to being some nerds superhero girlfriend with very little personality of her own wouldn't be a good way to end s5 on.

having mike just be rude to will for no reason and magically figuring out all his troubles with saying i love you to his girlfriend (that can't possibly have anything to do with him being queer, can they?) and them being happy forever wouldn't be a good way to end s5 on.

what el needs is to be independent and learn what she likes without a boyfriend she's heavily codependent on. SHE DOESN'T NEED A RELATIONSHIP AND ISN'T READY FOR ONE.

the truth is, she doesn't know enough love and healthy relationships to be with mike while being independent and figuring out her own identity. i honestly believe even canon elmax would work out better than mlvn, even though i'm a single, independent el truther at heart.

hope you liked my little ramble!

i really hope we get platonic elmike in s5 cause we were ROBBED 😭

[starsundertheceiling]

Byler proof!! Which we do not need by this point but hey, it’s still nice to have more byler proof, right??

honestly idk if we know this by now or not but I’ve just realized this so I’m sharing

So!! Owen trying to persuade El to join him and restore her powers, remember?

We have this:

Everything onscreen corresponds with what Owens is saying (proof for that later, below). But in this case?

My first thought was Oh, they’re showing us Mike when Owens says ‘a very real possibility this program fails.’ They are literally telling us m:leven is bones.

But then I started thinking more about it and: Yeah, they ARE showing us Mike. The program (the monologue) failed, and El’s friend Max died (if not for El literally doing the impossible, she would never see her again).

But they are also showing us byler here. Jonathan leaves the frame and we see byler, both of them in the middle of the screen. Yes, Mike is in the foreground but Will is literally RIGHT THERE. Not even on the side. In the middle. Before Mike obstructs our view of him, he’s the central point (because he doesn’t move, so he has to be right in front of us so we pay attention to him. Mike is moving so our attention is naturally drawn to him until he stands right in the middle too). <- The entire point is: They clearly want us to focus on both Will and Mike. Plus, Jonathan says, “The reservation’s under ‘Byers’.” just a second earlier. Maybe I should’ve started with that.

So, “the very real possibility this program fails” = it’s the 80s, homophobia everywhere, Mike is still trying to battle his gay, Will is indeliberately doing everything to sabotage his chances... If it was all real instead of a show, the chances that byler gets together would be... woefully small. (I didn’t say that, Owens did. I believe in canon byler in every dimension.)

And if THIS program (byler) fails? In S5, if the power of gay love doesn’t prevail in the crucial moment? Everybody dies. El, byler, Dustin, Dustin’s mom, Harrington’s hair, Mews’ ninth life in LA, Theodore Decker in Antwerp—everyone. Vecna slurps people’s minds like Mike Wheeler slurps his plain skim milk.

What I mean is, m;leven program had a very real possibility of failure and it already did. Byler has a very real possibility of failure but they aren’t allowed to, because that would be the end of all.

And to support the dramatic “end of all” part: Everything we see on our screens corresponds to what Owens is talking about. (yada, yada, proof below) but in this instance? “And if it does, you will never see your friends again?” And they show us her brothers and boyfriend? Nobody who she primarily considers as a “friend”? Because, of course, Will is her friend, and Mike is her friend, yes, yes. But if you asked her what they are to her, what would be the first things she says? Maybe it would be friend since she still uses “friends don’t lie” with Mike (she does, doesn’t she? *genuinely cannot remember 100%*) but even if, Owens could have easily said “you will never see your family and friends again”. I just don’t understand why he didn’t, when that’s what would better suit what we are shown.

This led me to think that “friends” here is the final bell, “Friends” are not just “friends”, it’s everyone. It just feels like he’s talking about everyone. He is. He literally is, I didn’t need to say all that lmao.

Hope you see the vision. Here’s the proof that Stranger Things creators do their job and know stuff I know—which, honestly? the bar is on the floor. 

Brave friends, good people, Lucas onscreen. Makes sense. Lucas best boy.

Hop keeps swimmin’ because he knows El is still there, waiting for him. And Joyce. But then he thinks Joyce died bc of him. Darn. But El is still there as his reason to hold on just a little while longer, fight on just a little while longer, sing on just a little while longer.

I thought it was funny that when Owens starts speaking about starting to work on the program, he is literally shown with his computer, preparing a program. Not writing one, no. Just sending emails. He gets cushy money for his doctor diploma (? in question?) and sending emails. And asking a li’l boy questions that don’t do anything, and manipulating a teenage girl.

Government doesn’t believe in the power of love. How fitting. How sad.

Max. I love Max. They put her in the middle of our screens just like they put her in the middle of our hearts in the eye of the storm. Plus, to stress how very in the middle of the storm she is, and that it’s Max, Max it’s Max, helloo it’s Max that’s in the eye of the storm, they made her interrupt the long-ass speech in the middle of a sentence.

Kinda like they made Jonathan mention “Byers” when sliding the camera towards byler with Mike in the front and Will behind because REMEMBER WILL IS THEREEE

[demetriandelibinaryboyfriends]

@leoisnthere09 I decided to reply to your comment via rb since you made me realize there are a few things I forgot to mention!

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, of course, as well as their own headcanons about what happened where we, as the audience, couldn't see the characters. For me, if something is neither overtly shown nor heavily implied via subtext, I can't view it as canon. (Which also applies to the Johnny & Robby reconciliation arc you mentioned, btw. I think they bungled this plot badly, and basically went "trust us, their relationship got better!" instead of doing the work of showing that happening.) Assuming Demetri was a good and attentive boyfriend offscreen doesn't work for me because that's a) pretty lazy writing and b) the woman of science in me just can't buy something when we're given no evidence for it. I can't believe Demetri is a good boyfriend when, working strictly off the canon text we're given, there is no definitive, undeniable proof of it, while I can name several examples that indicate the contrary.

And when you contrast him with, say, Miguel, Daniel, or Robby, who show engagement with their partner's interests and knowledge of their partners' personal lives outside of them, it's even harder for me to defend Demetri's apparent lack of interest in Yasmine's life. It's possible the showrunners THOUGHT they were portraying Demetri as a good boyfriend and didn't realize the implications of Yasmine basically losing her personhood to be a prop for him. But honestly, I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt for sloppy and inattentive writing when I KNOW that they can make a good mlw relationship when they actually try.

"Yasmine doesn't look like someone who would take shit from anybody, especially her boyfriend." S1 and S3 Yasmine? Yeah, absolutely. Her sense of self-worth and self-respect was maxed out basically to the point of making her a vain egomaniac. But then they did a complete 180 with her in S4, and basically removed all but the tiniest scraps of her original personality to have her primary trait be obsessing over Demetri 24/7. I think S4 and onwards, all bets are off on if this new Stepford Wifed Yasmine would retain any of her pride and dignity from earlier seasons, including regarding what treatment she does and doesn't take from her boyfriend. She is allowed a little of her personality back in S5 and S6, but even then, she feels the most like an actual person and the least like a trophy girlfriend caricature in her scenes...without Demetri. As soon as she's with him, she becomes this endlessly supportive and endlessly horny piece of arm candy with no life of her own.

When I compare S5 Yasmine with S4 and S6 Yasmine, S5 Yasmine seems the mentally healthiest. In S4 and S6, she's making her existence all about her partner, doing things like getting into his nerd stuff, hyping up his karate, and flying all the way back to the prom for him, when I seriously doubt Demetri would do the same for her. It's depressing, but I honestly think the healthy sense of self and self-value that would make S1-S3 Yasmine balk at the thought of dating Demetri were intentionally written out of her character to justify her staying with a guy who does not appear remotely interested in anything beyond Yasmine's looks and popularity. Because you're halfway right--the S1 Yasmine we initially meet WOULD demand better, and would NOT stay with someone who wasn't "all in" with her, so to speak.

Yasmine is a difficult character to analyze because she's written so inconsistently. In my original post, I kept my focus solely on Demetri, in the vibe of "if we look closely at Demetri's half of this equation, here's what I think is going on." I don't think we necessarily need to dive into Yasmine's motivations to deduce whether or not, using what we're already given, Demetri is a good boyfriend or not. However, examining Yasmine's side of the story does provide some interesting context. Because yeah, ultimately we DO have to wonder why she would stay in this kind of subpar and unequal relationship for so long.

The real answer is probably just that incredibly misogynistic writing reduced her to a periphery object in a male character's story, but Yasmine's Stepford Wifification is the canon we're given to work with, for better or for worse. In-universe, there's a few semi-plausible explanations as to what's going on.

The first explanation is just that Yasmine is a fucking moron, and is too blinded by teenage hormones and infatuation to realize her boyfriend is not that into her and isn't interested in getting to know her as a person (and, as far as I can tell, has not convinced me whatsoever that he's into women at all). She buys his paper-thin "good boyfriend" act hook, line, and sinker, and is none the wiser that her own boyfriend basically has no object permanence when it comes to her. This is semi-supported by canon, which likes to make little digs at Yasmine's intelligence, so...the writers clearly don't think much of her astuteness. There's a couple major issues with this explanation. The first is that I love women, and I like to believe we women are the proud owners of more than two brain cells at any given time XD Not that I was immune to making dogshit choices when I was subjected to Smitten Teenage Girlhood, but someone like Yasmine would know better.

Which brings me to my next point, which is that Yasmine HAS to have social smarts and some measure of emotional intelligence and manipulation skills to get her in the role of being the most popular girl in school. Hormones and infatuation could get her obsessed with Demetri for a few weeks at most, but I do not buy for a second that she'd still be in a braindead, drooling stupor over him after nearly a year of his half-assed, performative boyfriendry. It doesn't matter if Yasmine isn't book smart--a queen bee type would ABSOLUTELY be able to recognize that her boyfriend was a) revolving their relationship around him and his needs at the expense of her and her needs and b) gay. And sure, neither of these facts has been explicitly stated, so they're not canon canon. But I'd argue both are supported by the text and subtext we're given far more than the opposing alternatives. So, since I prefer to think poor Yasmine Nolastname isn't the dumbest person alive, I'm forced to examine other possibilities.

Another explanation is that Yasmine is using Demetri for reasons of her own. Perhaps, being a conventionally attractive and popular (ex popular?) blonde girl, she feels even more social pressure than Demetri to date--specifically traditional heterosexual dating. It's important to note that throughout S1, Yasmine does not have anything resembling a male love interest. The only guy she quasi-flirts with at all is Kyler, and it wouldn't make sense for them to have dated in S1. After all, if Yasmine and Kyler were on their way to becoming an item, why wouldn't Yasmine rub it in Sam's face during the scene where Sam confronts Yas and Moon in Moon's car? And before that, Sam and Kyler were dating because Yasmine set them up.

Come S3, Yasmine has lost much of her social standing, and probably doesn't need being seen as "undateable" to further decrease her popularity. She sees a safety net in Demetri--a relatively harmless, low-maintenance guy who isn't totally awful to be around and who, as @uncreativity-is-my-skill pointed out in their tags, is not going to pressure her into sex. Now she doesn't have to worry about pressure from her family or social circle to get a boyfriend, and she can go "See! See! People still want me! Even after the front wedgie!"

The reasons WHY Yasmine isn't broadly interested in dating could be similar to Demetri's--maybe she's asexual, a lesbian, or is just waiting for college to date. Ultimately it doesn't matter, though, the bottom line being that Demetri is just as much a tool to her as she is to him. In this case, her supposed obsession and fixation with him would be as much of a facade as Demetri's "good boyfriend who worships his girlfriend" act. Who knows--maybe she's outright using him to try and turn herself "normal" because, like Demetri, her disinterest in romantic relationships is seen as abnormal and potential fuel for bullies.

The third possibility--and the one that overall paints Yasmine in the best light--is that Yasmine knows Demetri needs a beard/general cover-up, and she willingly plays the part. Maybe she felt sorry for him, already being someone she viewed as low on the food chain, or maybe she developed some platonic affection for him sometime during S3. Either way, Yasmine caught onto the fact that Demetri was gay (or generally "abnormal" in a way where not wanting a girlfriend would draw attention to him), and she decides--perhaps as part of a genuine desire to be a better person after her actions in S1!--that she's going to give him one less thing to worry about. Here's this guy who, until pretty recently, was the school laughingstock, but Yasmine can see how badly he wants to be accepted by his classmates. And, considering she's been established as generally uninterested in dating for whatever reason, she loses nothing by appearing to be in a relationship with Demetri. I mean hey, it's not like any guy she actually wants is going to not pursue her because she's off the market, right? (And, of course, if she'd rather date girls or no one at all, this...isn't something she likely feels the freedom to be honest about, both with herself and with her peers.)

So Demetri gets a cool guy boost and gets to appear normal, and Yasmine's reasoning for going out of her way to do this is basically "fuck it, why not?" Think Glinda from Wicked, Cher from Clueless, and the Pink Ladies from Grease--Yasmine makes another person's "coolness makeover" her personal project that she does for funsies! Of course, stroking her own ego and feeling like she can pat herself on the back and say "wow, look what a good person I'm being!" likely plays a role as well XD And that would explain why she makes a point of saying everything Demetri wants to hear and doing what will make him look the best--she's all over his nerd shit, she acts insatiably horny for him in front of everyone, and she hypes up his karate and does a whole bit about how he's not a loser. I truly believe that in her heart of hearts, Yasmine could not give less of a fuck about nerd shit OR karate, nor is she so lacking in self-respect and common sense that she wants to publicly pork the most obviously homosexual man of all time. Nevertheless, she is on a mission to turn a loser dweeb into a shamelessly badass baller--either for her own entertainment/amusement, or just to see if she can. And this requires some light lying, as well as using the powers of emotional manipulation for good instead of evil. Perhaps Yas views Demetri as more of an accessory or a pet than a partner--he's there to make her look good ("look, I have a cool long-term boyfriend who is smart and confident and does karate! See how normal and desirable I am!") and to entertain her with his silly karate drama and nonsensical tech jargon ramblings. She has no emotional investment in any of it, of course, but it adds some spice to the bland world of high school.

We could have a mixture of the second and third explanations as well, with Yasmine needing a beard/cover of her own while also figuring she might as well provide a beard/cover to someone else who needs one. Maybe one or both of them view it as a "I'll scratch your back and you scratch mine" type of situation. Although judging by how hard both characters commit to acting out the Stereotypical Straight Couple bit in their S6 scene, I think this is more a subconscious thing than something they've ever actually discussed. In either case, Yasmine has a motivation for playing the role of the obsessively devoted girlfriend--she's either covering her own "un-teenage-girlness" of not actually WANTING to obsess over boys, or furthering her pet project of Make Demetri Popular while ensuring her test subject has reason to keep wanting to hang around her XD Perhaps both at once! A girl's gotta keep herself busy, especially when she needs it to not get out that she's a lesbian, or something else taboo.

Both the second and third explanations would give Yasmine good reason for immediately dumping Demetri after the dancing incident. In the case of using Demetri as a beard/cover up, Yasmine has to kind of re-evaluate the net gains and net losses from the situation. She decides, understandably, that the social capital gained from having a long-term boyfriend doesn't outweigh the social capital lost from being seen as a girl who would take back a cheater. If she's started to feel like she needs to stay in this relationship to preserve her social standing, Yasmine now has the perfect excuse to get out. And she takes it, because being seen as a single, boyfriendless loser with no game is preferable to being seen as a doormat who takes back cheaters. And, finally, the objectively smartest thing to do for the sake of her appearance lines up with what Yasmine actually wants.

And in the case of Yasmine willingly bearding for her friend/pathetic pet wet cat? Well, it's clear to see her services aren't needed anymore, if Demetri is beard-shopping in Barcelona! This could be seen as a betrayal ("But I was going to make you fashionable! And respectable! And you throw me away for another beard??? :(") or a relief. Perhaps an entertaining pet project isn't worth the trouble when continuing the facade of that relationship would look bad to the people around them, like Eli and Moon. Or perhaps the fun has worn off for Yasmine, but now she's in too deep in this weird little game to just cut herself loose without her social circle prying their noses into it--similar to why Demetri might feel like he can't break up with her, ironically. Yasmine is tired of this farce of a relationship, and the entertainment value and "I'm such a good person for helping him!" satisfaction she gets from Demetri no longer justifies the exhaustion of pretending to care about all the bullshit Demetri blathers about. So when the perfect excuse presents itself, Yasmine doesn't hesitate to end her bearding project. And then she goes right back to hooking up with Moon, like she was obviously doing right before Eli video called Moon akjuhkdshfuyb

Another thing worth noting here is that even though I don't buy his Straight Guy Act in the least, Demetri has been shown to be, on the large, an exceptionally good actor. Both Eli and the audience were thrown for a loop when Demetri revealed in S6 that no, actually, he wasn't totally gucci about all that fuck shit Eli did in S2 and S3, and is still dealing with lingering trauma and resentment. This surprised us because he hid his unresolved feelings so well for 2 seasons straight. We bought that he moved past it all, and so did Eli. Demetri is good at concealing his true emotions and putting on a facade when he deems it necessary. It just isn't immediately obvious because we more often see him in situations where he doesn't give a shit, and just blabs out unfiltered thoughts because he decides it's relatively harmless. But Demetri deemed it necessary to repress his feelings about Eli's S2 and S3 actions in order to not further jeopardize their friendship. He deemed it necessary to fake an obsessive straight crush on a girl he's ultimately whatever about in order to fit in. He deemed it necessary to hide his own uncomfortableness around and dislike of karate in order to support Miguel and Eli at the AVT and Valley Fest.

In the context of him and Yasmine's relationship, I think if he was uncomfortable or put off by her being overly sexual with him, he could pretty easily mask it. And he would definitely think it was necessary to do so, since it would raise questions if he didn't want this hot girl all over him. Another possibility is that he's comfortable and unbothered around Yasmine because he knows she's all bark and no bite, so to speak. The sexual flirting is probably more for show than anything--two teenagers bending over backwards to seem interested in sex because it's the "normal" thing to do. He probably knows at that point that Yasmine talks a big game because she can, but she's not going to initiate anything more than like...making out XD If that were the case, Demetri probably WOULD be pretty chill about the ass-slapping and such, despite not being attracted to her. It makes him look good and he knows by now that Yasmine's not gonna try to actually sleep with him, or anything too crazy.

I realize now that in my original post, I lowkey made the Yasmine-Demetri relationship out to be this cut-and-dried situation where Demetri is subjecting some poor girl to his deceitful wiles. I definitely should not have made it sound so one-note, because it's a lot more complicated than "Yasmine good, Demetri bad." I don't think Yasmine is some hapless victim, nor is Demetri the sole perpetrator. Really, the only situation in which Yasmine would be entirely a victim is the "Yasmine is a huge moron" scenario, which I still believe is unlikely due to Yasmine canonically having at least some social and emotional intelligence. In most other scenarios, Yasmine and Demetri are both in the wrong for not being honest with themselves and with each other about what they want, and staying in a situation that isn't really beneficial to either (in the long term, anyhow). Yasmine most likely has her own ulterior motives for going out with Demetri, and I seriously doubt she's as into him as she wants to seem. Most scenarios that account for Yasmine's cunning and people smarts indicate she's doing this as a favor to Demetri and/or she's using him for her own purposes.

So, in kind of a happy accident, I...do not think the partner directly affected by Demetri being a bad boyfriend was actually that hurt by it. Yasmine, as I see it, doesn't care that much about Demetri's bad boyfriendry because she doesn't particularly care about having any kind of boyfriend, whether she considers them "good" or "bad." She's simply arrived at the conclusion that it's a better look to have a boyfriend than not, so she picked one she viewed as too much of a weenie to push her around and who doesn't care about her enough to take up too much of her time.

However, said bad boyfriendry is still there (imo, anyways) and still worth talking about, even if Demetri was lucky enough to find a girl who doesn't give much of a crap. The fact is that in most relationships like this, especially irl, a partner who endlessly supports their SO only to never have their own life, passions, and hobbies engaged with by said SO is GOING to be hurt by it. And at the end of the day, what we see onscreen is a girl revolving her life around her boyfriend and getting 0 indication that he appreciates it enough to bother knowing her at all. What we see is Yasmine seeming to know Demetri so deeply--enough to challenge his insecurities and stick her neck out to support his passions--only for him to turn around and not return that devotion and commitment in the slightest. And honestly, I hate that this is not seen for the relationship red flag that it is.

Maybe most surprisingly in all this is that I didn't always hate Yasmine and Demetri as a ship! I thought they had an entertaining dynamic back in S3, and I could buy them having a little fling. Hell, I was even willing to entertain the idea of bisexual Demetri back then! Granted, I don't think the showrunners ever sat them up as something that would last, considering they don't really have anything in common aside from being judgmental and having gotten wedgies. But Yasmine's anger about her attraction to Demetri and Demetri's continued surprise she's talking to him at all was a funny contrast, and Yas helping him save face with the cast signing was a sweet moment.

I think what thoroughly ruined them for me in S4 was that the show took the goofy gimmick pairing too seriously, and tried to sell us on Yasmine suddenly being so obsessively committed that she would abandon her dad's wedding to go to prom with Demetri. Considering we got 0 indication of Yasmine being a closet nerd in S1 and S3 OR her being someone who felt anything but disdain for karate, they really just...had her be super into all of Demetri's shit out of left field and removed all of her own shit. They highkey had to give that girl a lobotomy to make her and Demetri work as a long-term pairing ;_____;

If the show had kept their unserious dynamic from S3, then I don't think I'd be so harsh on them. But as is, S3 yas/metri and S4 yas/metri feel like two entirely different dynamics. They rewrote an existing dynamic that actually worked okay in a really gross and harmful way, and I wish there was more acknowledgment of that when talking about these characters and this ship. Yas/metri didn't HAVE to make Yasmine a trophy girlfriend, and they could have had them go in a more fun and more believable direction. But the fact is they chose not to. I think a lot of the time, people don't differentiate between what actually happened with Yasmine and Demetri from S4 onwards, and what they wish happened. They try to project the more enjoyable S3 yas/metri onto the later seasons, and it just...doesn't work, because their relationship was basically revamped from the ground up and had all the life and fun sucked out of it. It's totally valid to miss that, but I think it's disingenuous to pretend they kept yas/metri the same vibe in later seasons when they...really, really didn't. And it's a bummer they didn't, for sure :(

On a final, lighter note, it's highkey incredibly funny to me that the current preview pic for the "cobra kai spoilers" tag is my tag screenshot from the original post. Nothing on there is a cobra kai spoiler. That is all already stuff we dun knew. The only true (recent) spoiler on there is not even correct, since I am no longer confident Yasmine actually likes bleunamis.

I was going through my blog for the past few months when SUDDENLY

Truly I love when one of my posts ages like fine wine. Gourmet cheese, even. I have never felt more validated in my entire life XD Literally the only thing that was possibly disproven here was that, as @baldwinboy5ive has pointed out, Yasmine never confirms she actually likes bleunamis and we can't say for sure that that wasn't just Demetri assuming she did ^^;

"Ohhhhh it makes no sense Demetri cheated on Yasmine! He's obsessed with her! He worships her! Like I don't even like the ship but this is how he acts in canon!" Besties how do I explain to you that Demetri is not obsessed with Yasmine, not even a little bit. He's not even obsessed with the idea of her, although he might have been at some point. He SAYS he's obsessed with Yasmine, and he clearly wants the people around him to THINK he's obsessed with Yasmine. But his actions do not remotely indicate that, and never have.

If Demetri was actually obsessed with Yasmine at any point, we would know such things as what her hobbies are, what her hopes and dreams in life are, where she wants to go to college, what kind of job she wants to have, which school subjects she's okay at and which ones she struggles with, or literally like. Anything else that makes her a person. We as the audience don't know any of these things because Demetri, who should know a good chunk of this information if not all of it, has never made a single mention of anything Yasmine-related beyond the most obvious and surface-level details.

Unfortunately, throughout S6, Demetri forgets Yasmine's existence every time she walks offscreen. And even when there would be a natural opportunity to bring her up, i.e. when the kids are talking about college, Demetri does not make a single peep about her or how she factors into his post-high-school plans. Even in S4 and S5, Demetri only brings up Yasmine's existence a couple of times (once when talking to Eli about how karate helped him land a hot girl, and once when trying to give Miguel relationship advice for his own girlfriend). Neither of these are Yasmine-specific--Demetri talks about her like she fills the "girlfriend" role in his life and has no importance in of herself. Eli should get back into karate because karate got Demetri a hot girlfriend! Demetri is justified in giving Miguel girl tips because he has a hot girlfriend! It could literally be anyone and the way Demetri treats her and talks about her wouldn't change.

Moreover, if Demetri was as obsessed with Yasmine as he claims, they would maybe have one (1) conversation that wasn't about Demetri and his shit. Their relationship is all about him, and Yasmine revolving herself around him and his needs. She cares about karate because of him! She cares about nerd shit because of him! He plans their dates and orders food he assumes she will like without her actually indicating she will! And when, pray tell, has Demetri ever embraced, asked about, or indicated even minimal knowledge of Yasmine's interests???

Not. One. Fucking. Time. He barely ever talks about her and we have no proof he knows anything about her. That is literally the farthest thing from obsession. I can tell you as an ex middle school girl who was not immune to intensive and all-consuming crushes, I could probably write biographies for all my objects of affection solely based off of info they had mentioned to me or things I found out secondhand. I retained all of it, and I fixated on it. I talked about their lives nonstop and bored the shit out of all my friends. THAT is obsession. THAT is worship.

"But he calls her queen! He calls her goddess!" These are...not uncommon pet names for people who are dating. And in any case, pet names do not mean shit. Guys will call girls "baby" or "sweetheart" or "honey" and then abuse them and treat them like garbage. If anything, lavish, extra-ass pet names like "my goddess" can actually be used as a subtle manipulation tactic. Because hey, if I'm calling you something that implies I kiss the ground you walk upon, then maybe you won't notice that I never ask a single question or remember a single thing of substance about you, right? If I TALK like you're my whole world and then some, then maybe you won't notice that I am meeting your emotional needs at all because I do not actually know or understand you at all!

Now, I don't think Demetri is truly so much of a piece of shit that he's manipulating Yasmine intentionally. I think the over-the-top pet names are just one more thing he's using to sell the image that he is a Totally Normal Guy Who Is Thrilled To Be With This Hot Girl and cover up the fact he is not actually into or interested in her at all. More on this later.

"But it's because Demetri and Yasmine barely get any screentime! Demetri hasn't brought up any details about Yasmine because it's not relevant to the story!" And let's stop to think about why that is, eh? Demetri doesn't consider his partner to be worth a mention or even a passing thought in regard to...literally everything else in his life. And in S3, S4, and S6, Demetri gets plenty of screentime to maybe like. Say one (1) substantial thing about Yasmine. And the crazy thing is that it could incorporate seamlessly into the "comic relief side guy" role they are often determined to keep Demetri in. Imagine Demetri yapping at karate practice about designer fashion or nail salons or something else Yasmine talks to him about, and Johnny overhears and is like "ha! I knew he was a weird sissyboy!"Only to find out he got into these things by proxy via his incredibly hot girlfriend. Like it would NOT be hard to use this relationship for one-off jokes that would be on-brand for this show's humor, and yet. They don't. Instead of seeming even mildly interested in his girlfriend's existence, the showrunners have Demetri make pop culture references and situational snarky comments.

Now, you're probably wondering why someone like Demetri, who usually unapologetically does what he wants and doesn't give a shit if people don't like it, would initiate and stay in a relationship that he does not actually want to be in. And the reason, to me, is simple: He wants to fit in.

Demetri, from the beginning, has struck me as someone who doesn't have much interest in girls and dating, but wants people to think he does to appear "normal." Admitting he doesn't care about something most teenage boys obsess over would instantly "other" him and make him an even bigger target for bullying, which we know he's been dealing with for some time. And then, when Miguel and Eli both show overt interest in girls and get girlfriends, the pressure only increases. At this point, he's already worried they're going to leave him behind because of karate. The last thing he needs is something to cement to the two best friends embracing traditional masculinity that he's some kind of abnormal freak, and something they need to shed so as not to ALSO be seen as freaks.

(The why of Demetri's disinterest in girls and dating is irrelevant here, but for what it's worth, I think the simplest and most straightforward answer is that he's closeted and gay. If you don't see that, however, it's also possible he's acearospec. OR he just...is not impressed by any of the people he meets as dating prospects and maybe wants to wait until college to find a more meaningful connection with someone than just "they're hot and we have spicy make-out sessions." But in the world of high school boys--especially the toxic masculinity-obsessed world of Cobra Kai--this is NOT something you can ever outright say if you want people to respect you.)

Flash forward to Demetri getting with Yasmine, and attaining the safely unattainable. What is he supposed to do here that won't expose the "otherness" he's been trying to hide all along? He still has no real interest in her--he never did, and now he has to worry that might become apparent. Even when he (presumably) gets to know her, it's clear he's not too engaged or captivated, considering how he never demonstrates knowing any more about her than he did in S1. And he can't break up with her, considering all the unwanted attention that would bring. Because WHY WHY WHY would he give up every sane, NORMAL guy's dream??? Demetri's life may be in a more stable place--Miguel and Eli are his best friends again and he has a wider friend circle on the whole--but for all he knows, the only reason he was able to achieve this kind of happiness was BECAUSE he conformed. He got a hot girlfriend--the apparent ULTIMATE mark of social status in this dudebro-run universe--and if he willingly gives that up, he could lose everything. If he admits he doesn't want a girlfriend just for "having a girlfriend's sake," maybe Miguel and Eli will reject him. Maybe the rest of his friends and support system will, too. After all, so many of the people in Demetri's network are in relationships--Sam, Miguel, Robby, Tory, Eli, Moon. Hell, even his senseis! Johnny is dating Carmen, and Daniel is happily married. Being single by choice would make Demetri the odd one out. And after the abandonment issues he developed in S2, no way in HELL is he doing anything to jeopardize his support network.

And that brings us to Barcelona. Demetri got a significant confidence boost from beating Eli in the flag fight, and is starting to realize that he's more desirable to girls than he thought. Maybe he doesn't have to settle for Yasmine as a cover-up if there are other girls out there who could fill that role. Because that is all it is--a role. We have every reason to believe Demetri doesn't value romantic entanglements with girls for their own sake; to him, they're just a tool for showing off his coolness via "look! I get bitches!" as well as a means of fitting in with his peers.

So here comes Maria, offering Demetri a chance to show off just how cool and baller he is to his peers via giving him the ultimate thing men should strive for in this universe--girl attention. Demetri doesn't need Yasmine anymore. She's thousands of miles away, and there's a girl right in front of him who will help him project the image he wants. Why should he be concerned with a girl he only ever pretended to like to maintain appearances? Hell, maybe there's even some resentment there, if Demetri legitimately felt like he couldn't break up with Yasmine without subjecting himself to social scrutiny.

Add this to Demetri's falling out with Eli, and it gives him even more motivation to dance with Maria. Note how Eli is the one initially checking out Maria--enough so that Demetri slaps him like "you have a girlfriend!" And when Maria comes over, Eli feels like he has to say no out of principle. Demetri sees an opportunity to get under Eli's skin via dancing with a girl he's attracted to, and hey--it works, doesn't it?

Worth noting that Eli is ALSO a pretty shit boyfriend who knows basically nothing about Moon, but unlike Demetri, he has a more clear-cut feeling of "I shouldn't do this because it would be wrong." Demetri, meanwhile, is either so numbed out from the guilt of using Yasmine for his image that he wouldn't have any left to feel for cheating OR he knew what he was doing from the jump, in which case...why the hell would he feel even an iota of guilt for cheating, or hesitance to do so?

I suspect it's the former, since Demetri isn't like...a sociopath. But I do think he has been using Yasmine for quite some time now, whether he actively feels bad about it or not. And that's so clearly and obviously wrong that, in Demetri's mind, it dwarfs any "wrongness" of dancing with someone else when you're technically in a relationship. So might as well have some fun and make Eli mad, right?

"But you're biased because you ship Eli and Demetri!" Bizarrely enough, a lot of the complaints about the cheating plotline are coming from...other Elimetri shippers. At first I thought it was kind of funny (like...can't we just take the win and be happy, guys? Can't we celebrate the fact we've been saying Demetri doesn't give a rat's ass about his performative het relationship, and we were proven correct?), but now it's starting to get on my nerves. I feel like a lot of people in this fandom like Demetri not for what he is, but this like...kooky goofy funny wholesome comic relief guy they've built up in their head. Or people SAY they love his Villain Arc and want him to be a horrible cunt in Part 2, and then they flip tf out and claim he's OOC when he actually DOES do morally questionable things. The Demetri fandom apparently can't handle him being flawed if it's not in like...a safe and sanitized way where he doesn't act like thaaaaaaaat much of a jerk.

And what's even MORE frustrating is the way people are spazzing out over Demetri being flawed in a way that is VERY MUCH supported by what we have seen of his character for the rest of the show. Yes, he WOULD cheat, actually! Yes, it DOES make sense for him to cheat on a woman with another woman as a closeted gay boy (or something else significantly outside the cishet norm)--he has no real investment in his romantic relationships with women! the people around him seem to indicate that "getting chicks" is the ultimate mark of prowess, badassery, and success. Demetri figures "Hey, as long as I'm doing that, it doesn't matter who the fuck the chicks actually are. I just need to meet my Normal Heterosexual Quota before I go do something I actually give a shit about, like playing Dungeon Lord."

All this can be true, by the way, without Demetri being an absolute steaming shitpile of a person. We KNOW he has redeeming traits! He's incredibly loyal to and protective of his friends, and has been especially ride-or-die for Miguel, Eli, and Sam. He loves playing the entertainer, and he clearly eats it up whenever he makes Eli or one of his other friends laugh. He's sweet and loving with his female friends like Moon and Sam (which makes it all the more apparent to me that he...doesn't really care about Yasmine tbh. He has far healthier relationships with his platonic friends than his own partner!). He found it in him to forgive his best friend for some truly heinous shit, and probably would have been content for it all to be water under the bridge if not for the college debacle. Demetri is not unilaterally a bad person because he caved to the pressure to have a girlfriend and then...dealt with it poorly when he realized he didn't actually want her. His flaws and shortcomings are what make him interesting!

So often people see him in this really black and white way that really does his character a disservice. It's always "my Demetri is the bestest kindest gentlest most caring boy in the world and would NEVER cheat!" or "Demetri is absolute TRASH because he cheated on his girlfriend even though Miguel did too and we forgave he ass, and now nothing else about him or the context he did it in matters!" It's like no one wants to engage with his complexity, or stop and put some thought into his motivations and mindset before going "IT'S BAD WRITING BECAUSE I WANTED HIM TO BE A GOOD BOY AND HE'S A GOOD MORAL BOY IN MY HEAD AND THEY MADE HIM AN ASSHOLE >:(" Demetri can deeply love and fight for his platonic friends while treating the women he gets romantically involved with as interchangeable and unimportant. Both can be true. And if that makes you uncomfortable--GOOD! People are complicated, and characters that show that and force audiences to reckon with the multifaceted, messy, and often contradictory aspects of human nature are a positive thing. Especially in the age of purity culture writing characters off as The Epitome of Goodness or Pure Evil, I think approaching character analysis with nuance is more important than ever.

And finally...friends, I'm going to be so real with you for a second. I, the person behind this account, am a woman. I have dated and been in relationships with men. And frankly, it concerns me that it took cheating for a good chunk of this fandom to recognize Demetri is a shit boyfriend. And even now, with pretty infallible proof he's a bad boyfriend, I still see people in denial, saying "he wouldn't fucking do that to Yasmine! It was OOC! Why did they randomly have him decide to treat his girlfriend badly!" Ladies and gentlemen, have we been watching the same show??? He has never ever treated his girlfriend well, swinging back and forth between othering her as this larger-than-life Concept™️ and showing their relationship off like a prize. He uses her as a vessel to project what he wants onto and tell all his problems to. Just because Demetri isn't outright abusive and insulting Yasmine every 5 minutes doesn't mean he isn't toxic as hell. Their relationship has always been all about Demetri, and he only values Yasmine insofar as she can stroke his ego and fit the nebulous "dream girl" mold he's cooked up.

And I am pleading for women who like men to demand better than what Demetri Alexopoulos has to give. I mean, first of all, please get a better gaydar, because I have met an astounding number of irl gay men that remind me of that boy XD So if you meet a guy who's Demetri-coded to an above average degree...definitely double and triple-check he hasn't got you lined up to be his next beard before you get your heart broke ^^;

In all seriousness though, ladies. I know society is always telling us shit like "ohhhhh find a guy who's OBSESSED with you and WORSHIPS you and calls you a QUEEN!", but none of that means jack shit if a man doesn't want to actually learn anything about you and humanize you as more than an ideal. It's hard to be able to have good, thoughtful conversations with someone and be silly and goofy and relaxed and your most authentic self when you're constantly yelling down from the pedestal they put you on ^^; And please, for the love of god!!! I don't care HOW much you like a guy, you get the hell out of there if every single one of your conversations is about him. Romance is meant to be a partnership, not a girl erasing her entire personality and then some to cheer on a boy who does not even know where she's going to fucking college. Know your worth, seek better, demand better. Never settle for some dipshit who forgets about you every time you walk out the room because he called you "golden goddess."

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk 🩵 TL;DR I fully support the Demetri cheating plot and hope it will eventually be the wake-up call people need to see this man was NEVER a good boyfriend to Yasmine Nolastname. I'm so happy she finally realized she deserves better than being some gayboy's beard cheerleader coolness trophy, and I wish her the best of luck in pursuing people who actually want to fuck women ♀️

[apatheticlexicographer]

ok so picture this:

s5 starts. will is, obviously, getting a lot of focus, and even more of the story is told through his perspective. he might try to patch up m!leven's relationship a little, but there are more pressing concerns. mike is avoidant whenever he tries to talk about it, just like he was during their talk in the cabin at the end of s4.

eventually will brings it up to el, thinking she might be more receptive, but she just stares at him blankly. "me and mike? will, what are you talking about? we broke up weeks ago, i thought mike told you?"

when mike said she had talked to him a little back in the cabin, this was what he meant. they split before s4 even ended. admitting to will that they had broken up for good would be opening so many cans of worms at once, though, so he did what he does best: repress it and avoid it.

would it be kinda weird to have them break up offscreen??? you'd think so, but considering the show's track record it really isn't that implausible.

lucas and max broke up in the gap between s3 and s4, and while it was implied she dumped him in solidarity with el back in s3, i don't remember her saying it explicitly to his face. steve and nancy never had a formal "breaking up" conversation either, or at least not one that we saw. joyce and lonnie divorced before the start of the show, and she never broke up with bob. even whatever happened between vickie and her boyfriend happened offscreen!!!

the only explicit onscreen breakup we've had was between m!leven in s3, and that was portrayed in a way that made it clear that it wasn't serious or permanent.

similarly, we haven't seen officially stated "getting together" scenes. first kisses and confessions, yes, but the closest we've had to a "will you be my boyfriend/girlfriend" was when mike asked el to the snowball in s1. this wasn't entirely played for laughs, but it was definitely shown as something lighthearted and naiive. hell, el didn't even know what he was talking about!!! not exactly the peak of romance...

if the only stated breakup was something temporary and childish, what does that say about the only stated get-together???

in general, the writers seem to prefer changing the status quo of relationships between seasons, and then expanding on the change within the season, rather than showing the shift onscreen. people meet, part ways, grow closer, grow apart- the dynamics don't stay stable in the interrim, and some of the most important things are only explored as their aftermath.

it might seem a bit extreme to have something as important as the show's flagship ship fall apart offscreen, but it would make a huge twist for the audience. it would also explain the need for the 2 days later timeskip- having them just break up offscreen would be pushing it, but this way it would technically have happened during a timeskip.

honestly, i started writing this mostly as a what if situation, but the more i think about it the more i think i might be right.

(it would also make an amazing setup for Big Byler Fight. mike finds out el didn't commission the painting and will finds out mike hid the breakup from him. now they both have a reason to be pissed. boom.)

[strangeswift]

mike lucas anything oh my god

Congratulations Ella nancysglock you have been selected to receive ✨️a ficlet✨️

This takes place post S5, senior year of high school. Sill in Hawkins. Established Byler and Lumax. And. It's fluff. I've written fluff. Don't get used to it.

-

Lucas and Mike walked through the mall, Mike attempting to tune out the grating sounds of the Christmas music playing over the speakers.

They'd driven an hour to get to this godforsaken mall. Sometimes, despite the poor effect on the local economy and the Russian lab in the basement, Mike kind of missed having Starcourt in Hawkins.

They had to weave through the line of kids waiting to see "Santa". Mike looked over at the man wearing a red suit and a synthetic white beard and cringed.

"I've always thought that was kind of-" He started.

"Creepy?" Lucas finished.

"Yeah. Who lets their kid sit on some random guy's lap?" Mike said.

"And who agrees to do that job? I mean come on, that guy's definitely a felon," Lucas added.

Mike snorted.

The air smelled of too strong flowery perfume and Chinese food, mingling into a borderline nauseating aroma. Mike wrinkled his nose as they passed the food court.

"What's wrong?" Lucas asked.

"Smells," Mike remarked.

Lucas raised an eyebrow, "You're such a baby. Can we please focus? We need to figure out what we're getting for Will and Max."

"I already know what I'm getting for Will," Mike said.

"Good for you, man," Lucas said sarcastically.

"It's not my fault you don't know your girlfriend as well as I know my... Will" Mike said.

Lucas laughed. "Could you have meant your boyfriend?" he asked.

"Yeah, whatever," Mike mumbled, averting his eyes as they continued to walk through the crowd.

"It's fine, man," Lucas said casually.

And it was fine. Mike knew that. He knew Lucas was happy for him. "It just feels weird to say... out loud," he said.

"Well, it's not," Lucas said matter-of-factly.

"Not what?" Mike asked.

"Weird," Lucas answered.

Mike paused. "Okay."

"Okay," Lucas echoed.

A small smile tugged at Mike's lips, he made sure not to let Lucas see.

"So let's find gifts for Max then," Lucas said, changing the subject.

"Gifts plural?" Mike questioned.

"Yeah, one from me, one from you," Lucas said with a smirk.

"Oh I am not getting Max a-"

"She got you one," Lucas interrupted.

"No she didn't," Mike argued, "You're making that up."

"Maybe, but you don't know that for sure, do you?" Lucas said.

Mike rolled his eyes, "I don't even know what girls like."

"Welcome to my world," Lucas said.

"I thought you knew what girls liked. Remember when you took me shopping to help me get El back?"

"We didn't even get her anything, and you didn't get her back," Lucas said with a laugh.

"I did eventually," Mike mumbled, "That's not the point. I mean aren't you like an expert?"

Lucas shrugged, "I thought I knew everything back then. We've both matured a lot."

"We have, haven't we," Mike remarked.

"Oh. No I meant Max and I have matured, you definitely haven't," Lucas joked.

Mike rolled his eyes, and quickened his pace so Lucas had to jog to catch up as they walked into a department store that looked like it had lots of... girl things.

"What are you getting for Will anyway?" Lucas asked as he felt the fabric of a scarf hanging on the rack.

"Art stuff he wanted and uh... I wrote him a letter," Mike said, flushing a little.

"That's not a bad idea. I should write Max a letter," Lucas said.

"What if I wanted to write Max a letter for her gift?" Mike joked.

Lucas huffed a laugh, "We can both write her a letter I think."

"Dear Max, you are my closest and dearest friend. I think you're so smart and beautiful, I love you soooo much-" Mike began.

Lucas laughed, "She'd probably hit you."

Mike shrugged, "Worth it."

"She wrote you a letter, you know. When she..." Lucas trailed off.

Mike could tell from his tone of voice what he was referring to. "Really?" he asked.

Lucas nodded.

Mike paused. "We should get out of here. There's a skate shop on the other side of the mall, she'd probably prefer something from there."

Lucas frowned, "Yeah... Yeah, why didn't I think of that?"

Mike shrugged, "You were too focused on getting the type of gift a boyfriend is supposed to get for his girlfriend?"

"When did you get all wise and shit?" Lucas asked.

"Speaking from experience," Mike said.

Lucas clapped him on the shoulder, "Let's go look at skateboards."

"Oh actually, I just need to grab one thing from here for Will."

Lucas raised an eyebrow.

"He likes those stupid fucking Christmas candles," Mike explained.

"They do smell good," Lucas said, "I like the cinnamon ones."

"Yeah? Well you can pick it out then," Mike said.

"Sure, but I'll tell Will I picked it out, and he'll probably hug me instead of you," Lucas said.

"Yeah? Well I'm gonna write Max the best letter she's ever read, it'll make your letter look like shit," Mike countered.

"I'll leave the letters to you, I'm gonna get her a new skateboard," Lucas said with a laugh.

"Dear Max, I actually think you should leave Lucas for me, because-"

Lucas slapped Mike's arm to shut him up, "Come on, idiot, let's pick out your stupid fucking candle for your boyfriend," he said fondly.

After arguing extensively about candles and finally selecting one, they started walking toward the skate shop.

"I wish I was actually going to be in Hawkins for Christmas," Lucas said.

"You should tell your parents you don't want to go to the ski resort," Mike suggested.

"I tried, they don't care," Lucas said.

"Well, you're an adult," Mike argued.

"As of a month ago," Lucas pointed out.

"Whatever, I think you should stay. We need you for the campaign. Erica too," Mike said.

"You guys will be fine. Max and El said they'd fill in," Lucas said.

"Yeah, only because you asked them," Mike mumbled.

"They'll do it," Lucas promised.

Mike hesitated. "Well maybe we just move the campaign up."

"You'd move the campaign for me?" Lucas asked.

"Of course," Mike said.

Lucas paused, "The skate shop's there," he said, starting to walk toward the store.

They walked in and Mike admired the wall of colorful skateboards. They were cool. Or whatever.

"I thought you said there was no way you guys would finish the campaign before Christmas," Lucas finally said.

Mike shrugged, "If Will and I pull a couple of all nighters we probably can."

"You don't have to do that," Lucas said.

Mike absently spun one of the wheels on a display board, "I know, I want to."

Lucas smiled. "Okay."

"Hey, I think we should test out the boards," Mike said.

"You can't ride a skateboard," Lucas said, exasperated.

"How hard can it be?" Mike asked, taking the display board off the shelf and setting it on the floor.

"You're gonna bust your ass," Lucas said.

"No, you'll catch me!" Mike said, stepping onto the board and wobbling, holding his arms out for balance.

"Get off, you're gonna fall," Lucas said.

"I��� yeah," Mike said, teetering on the board, "Can you… I need help."

"You need help stepping off of a skateboard?"

"Yeah, I'm gonna fall!" Mike said, a bit panicked.

Lucas rolled his eyed and extended a hand. Mike grabbed his hand and started to lift one foot, but the board rolled slightly and he froze.

"Oh my god, dude," Lucas said, holding out his other hand.

Mike grabbed both of Lucas's hands and hopped, rather than stepped, off the board.

Lucas was practically doubled over laughing, and Mike tried to look offended but a grin spread across his face.

"Hey! No buy, no ride!" a voice said from behind them.

Mike scowled as they turned around to see…

"Keith?" they both said in unison.

"Hello troglodytes," Keith said in his deadpan nasally voice.

"What the hell, you work here?" Mike asked, picking the board up and returning it to the rack.

"Yep," Keith answered, "Moved to the city for school."

"There's no way you skateboard," Mike said dubiously.

"Why, because I'm a nerd? That's presumptuous," Keith said.

"Do you skateboard?" Lucas asked, eyebrows raised.

Keith hesitated. "Job's a job. Are you gonna buy anything?"

"Yeah, uh I'm looking for something for Max, I was thinking a new board," Lucas said.

"Mad Max," Keith said, smirking.

"Uh… yeah. So I guess do you have any recommendations?" Lucas asked.

Mike scoffed.

"Well, that one's our latest model, it's a-" Keith started.

"We'll take it," Mike interjected.

"What?" Lucas asked.

"Dude, we don't know shit about skateboards and neither does he. It's the latest model, we'll take it," Mike said.

Lucas hesitated. "Alright. We'll take it."

After they checked out, they walked out of the mall.

Lucas looked like he was thinking about something, then he finally asked, "Did you mean it, about the campaign, I mean? You'll move it up?"

"Yeah, dude. You're our ranger, we need you," Mike said.

Lucas smiled.

"More importantly we definitely can't play without Lady Applejack," Mike added with a smirk.

"Definitely not," Lucas agreed.

[eddiemunsonssoulmate]

I just got some bad news (my beloved DND campaign gets cancelled because some other players don't invest enough time and constantly miss sessions), so I could really need some positive thoughts right now.

So could you please write the essay about why killing Eddie would be bad writing? I need the hope, that while losing my DND campaign I at least don't lose my favorite DND nerd...

(btw I agree with everyone else, your stories are great and I love how you write Eddie!)

That’s a horrible thing, I’m so sorry! Loosing a D&D group always sucks, happene to me too many times. So in this case, your wish is my command~

101 on why Eddie isn’t dying and if he does, why I’m suing the Duffers for bad life choices and burn the Netflix HQ.

I'm sorry for any typos in there but it's past 11pm and I'm tired

Maybe teeny tiny spoilers ahead but actually not really because it's 99,9% me trying to make him survive.

Let’s start with the bad things but I promise it gets better!

The foreshadowing for his death is huge. “Outside of D&D, I’m no hero.” and “I did what I do best, I ran.” and “There is no shame in running.” 

Him coming in as a new, beloved character and we all know what the Duffers do with them

The trailer scene in the Upside Down where he plays guitar to distract the Demobats

No one knows how he gets out of being hunted by the whole town

Overall it feels like they’re setting him up to be a martyr, dying a hero’s death in Volume 2 and being, once again, another sacrificial lamb for the show.

That’s exactly where my problem already starts.

Been there, done that. Barb? Sacrificial lamb. Bob? Sacrificial lamb. Billy? Sacrificial lamb, little longer buildup than the others at least. Alexei? Sacrificial lamb. See where this is going? I’m tired of the sacrificial lamb trope. “Oh, it’s a new season and we need another death but we’re not going to kill anyone from the actual main cast, let’s throw in more sacrificial lambs.” It gets boring. Predictable. They talked about Season 4 as having “high stakes” and being “gut wrenching''. For me, high stakes are not writing in a new character only to kill him off as a sacrificial lamb later on. That’s pure laziness.

What’s the difference between all those others and Eddie? Barb? Only in season one, died quite fast. Bob? Older and only Joyce’s boyfriend when we all knew she and Hopper would end up together. Billy? Villain coded. Alexei? Just a cute russian with no real relevance. Edide on the other hand fits perfectly in the established group. He’d be the 5th young adult, making the kids and young adults the same amount of people. Which also brings me to my next point

He fits in. He is similar to Max and Robin joining the main group, fitting right in there. Something those other death’s didn’t have. Gaten even compared Eddie’s introduction to Max and Robin, so that gives me a little extra hope.

The season is about finding your confidence. What kind of message is that if Eddie finds the confidence to be a hero only to die two seconds later? Right, it would basically say “Hey, don’t find your confidence, it has bad consequences.” Leaves a really bad taste in my mouth if you ask me.

Joseph wants to come back and hinted multiple times at Eddie’s return. Of course he might just be teasing but ya know it gives me hope. “Oh, yeah, I think so. I can’t see why not. I’d be furious if they’re not bringing me back.” Is the first quote from him. Means to me, they could totally bring him back because he’s not dead and it wouldn’t make sense to not bring him back in S5. For the second I don’t have the actual quote but it was about Eddie and Jonathan meeting in S5 and Joseph was like “We’re pushing for it in Season 5” or something like that. Would be a weird thing to say if he wouldn’t have the possibility to come back, right?

One thing most people don’t know about is that the Duffers took inspiration for Eddie from Damien Echols, a member of the West Memphis Three. He was accused of murdering three kids but was later on proven innocent.

The trailer scene still has me concerned, not going to lie, but given that Dustin is with him, I can see them fleeing into the trailer and finding shelter from the Demobats in there, giving the others just enough time to get into Vecna’s lair.

Joseph did a fantastic job with Eddie and that’s not really a reason to not kill Eddie but I just wanted to mention it here.

They have also been hyping Eddie up before the season started, he’s included into the main poster right in the middle of the main group and tbh, it would be a really really wasted character if they’d just kill him off.

I might be reaching because I need a lifeline here. I might be thinking too much, I might try to turn it all positive but just thinking about his death rubs me the wrong way because at this point, none of us would be surprised if he really would die. We’d be devastated and sad for sure but not surprised because that’s just how the Duffers did it in the past. And that’s why I, as a writer myself, would just not do it this time.

They’re building up for a final season, a big war coming to Hawkins. The stakes have to be higher than a sacrificial lamb.

Thank you for coming to my ted talk called “Eddie’s death would be my 13th reason”, thank you for staying, hope you have a nice day.

(Also thank you very much <3)

[itsryuworld]

what happened with vol.2? I'm the only one feeling robbed?

what the hell happened with jason and his friends chasing the hellfire? suddenly became a "sinclair's hunting" out of nowhere. i don't get it.

what about stancy? robin said steve didn't know what he wants but then he's been thinking in his six nuggets with nancy bc always has been nancy? what?

max was robbed too! i love her so much, she did an amazing performance in "dear billy" but then?? awful. i prefer her to die than her staying in that position now.

lucas was there just to be max support? that's unfair, he deserves his own arc too.

why has karen his own poster this season? she didn't do anything relevant.

eddie died for no reason. he didn't need to come back, but he did it anyway. he was perfectly portrayed and everybody loves him but still someone needs to die and they don't take risks so there's eddie, let him die or whatever.

eleven was learning so much about herself, growing up and find her way, and then she's with mike again and everything gets awkward again. she has her powers now and she's bald, so mike can be her boyfriend again, seriously? don't do this to her!

and will, oh let me start with will! they made him dirty again!! he was there just to suffer and suddenly became a matchmaker for m*lvn despite his own feelings, so he's again hurting and sad, and they promised a will's amazing coming out scene (and it was sweet and significant, but wasn't enough) but it DIDN'T HAPPEND. "will's sexuality will be adressed this season" it wasn't. people are still saying he's not gay and he's in love with eleven. how can you do this to him again? stop it.

and what on earth happened with mike wheeler? i don't know him anymore. he's now eleven's boyfriend but nothing else. he's an asshole and he's useless at this point. he's just there to makes her girlfriend stronger with power of love. he's a bad friend, a bad boyfriend, a bad person even. why mike turns out this way? it's terrible, he's so unlikable now and its sad, i feel so sorry for him.

and what was so funny, though? the cast said things that never happened. we've been tricked? they talked about a lot amazing things but we got nothing. i am so disappointed, only two episodies but it was so awful and disgusting. not will vecna'd? no, even when we saw the harness? the swingset? the "trying to be normal in the pattern, he's trying new things"? nothing happend.

i just feel like vol.2 doesn't fit vol.1 for a lot of reasons. what the fuck they did? mike saying "a fight you can't back from" but then "i love you el, the day i meet you in the woods my life started, i can't live without you"

it feels so out of place, i'm sorry. everything was weird to me. but byler EVEN WIERERD. they set up everyhing for what? will sad and heart broken once again while m*lvn are the main couple for no reason?? and still it seems like byler could actually be something in s5 because we had some hints too! i'm so exhausted but still i'm a delusional for byler.

i don't expect my ship anymore, because they'll need to do A LOT of work to fix it after put mike to saying "meeting you in the woods was the best day of my life" with will stading by his side and despite that was will's worst time bc was taken to the upside down and was traumatized for doing nothing wrong in his life!!

byler vol.1 should be ashamed of byler vol.2!! they were crazy for eachother in vol.1, ready to jump into eachothers arms and THEN WHAT? mike was afraid to lose eleven that's why he didin't say "i love you" before? NO SHIT. doesn't make sense.

i'm done. you better make a perfect byler endgame explaining everything or just stop playing with our hearts and give will a boyfriend an let him be happy, duffer brothers!!!

[shutuperce]

How are you Percy?:) what is something on your wishlist for season 5?

i'm good!!! winter break just started so lots of writing is happening :D

i already have a list going here of my s5 wishlist but!!! yay!!! i get to list more cus i have endless amounts :P

jopper get a lil date (maybe surprised by their kids) where they have candles and snacks and a lil picnic blanket. it's the apocalypse and the world might be ending but they get their date finally <3

robin comes out to dustin their friendship means the world to me and then steve & dusty can have a matchmaker scheme with robin and vickie >:) that might be too goofy for s5 but i don't care hehe

the party hanging out as a group... i love their relationships with the older characters but i need them and their goofy shenanigans and d&d references okay

will gets to cuss vecna out <3 (let him say fuck again netflix)

group hugs. that's all. think of the will/dustin/el one when the cali gang gets to hawkins, the bywheelclair one in the hospital, the s1 hug by the quarry, dustin and el and mike in s3 at starcourt.

holly wheeler gets her moment

no more stoncy love triangle

el and mike break up. it's mutual and they stay friends and it shows how their characters compliment each other so much better when they're not in a relationship. all the toxic mlvn shit is talked over and mike comes out to her and she is so accepting. she also tells him about her side of their struggles and he apologises for being a shit boyfriend. anyways elmike rights this season babe

lumax because they are amazing and i want max to open up to lucas and maybe they have a solid cry in each other's arms. and it highlights the fact that they're in love, yeah, but also best friends.

the above, but make it byler.

there are definitely more but that's what i'm thinking rn!! sending love and ty for the ask <333

[wackywriterwhowriteswhenever]

What the entire fuck was that?

Vol. 1 set up so much potential and then they just didn’t take advantage of it.

First off there was no reason the episodes should have been that long. You could’ve wrapped them up in about half the run time.

Aside from that, the whole thing was super problematic: The Queerbait with Will and his obvious feelings for Mike, and the turning around and having Mike say his life began the day El met. And he knew he loved her then; BITCH, WHAT? Where in the fuck did Mike show that AT ALL in season one?

Meanwhile, you have one of the only Black characters being held literally at gunpoint. I don’t need to tell you how problematic that is.

And they did Max and Eddie dirty. You put Max through all that only to have her barely be alive at the end of the season, what the hell?

Vol. 2 reminded me why I don’t place a lot of emotional investment in media and temper my expectations. But even doing both of those, I expected something way better than this.

My personal belief is The Suffers got big egos after S2 and decided to make the show bigger to line their paychecks and boost those egos. They sacrificed their characters and the plot for fan service.

Now all this said, I have MINOR hope for Byler. And I stress minor. Obviously they would have to address this shit and do it well in S5. If they’re smart about it, it could happen.

My reasonings are mainly from the “epilogue” scenes. Take this shit with a grain of salt. 

1. You got Robin bonding with Vickie after Vickie breaks up with her boyfriend. And you see Vickie acting super similar to Robin. This reminded me of Byler.

2. Milkvan didn’t kiss during Vol. 2 at all. They barely even hugged. So the affection between them was kept to a minimum.

3. In Hopper’s Cabin, you have that small Byler moment. I appreciated that Mike even put a comforting hand on Will’s shoulder during that scene. And what caught my attention right away before this was Argyle wearing rainbow socks when they arrived to the cabin.

4. At the tail end when everyone is watching Hawkins burn, pay attention to the staging of the characters behind El. You’ve got Nancy and Jonathan, then Mike and Will then Hopper and Joyce. They are spaced apart from each other, yet Mike and Will are in the center of two now canon couples. Aside from that, in all the pairings, the member of the Byers family is on the right.

I realize I’m probably talking out of my ass on this. I don’t trust The Suffers to do it the way I think they should unless they hire me personally to consult on the show. But part of me has to remain hopeful, even though most of me is hugely pessimistic. 

[jancys-blue-bayou]

I’m not planning on watching volume 2 because of the sheer mess of volume 1 and the disgusting Stancy shipteasing but could you say what the gross Stancy scenes are and if there’s actual substance behind them? Make it make sense please I just wanted Jancy to reunite and be happy and have them have their own individual storylines without this stupid love triangle :(

Hey anon so after all I'd def recommend watching volume 2 if you watched volume 1 because, well volume 1 is worse. On all accounts, both regarding Jancy and just the show in general. And the season ends with Jancy having a sweet reunion, then there's an ambiguous scene with them where they talk but don't really resolve all the tension between them, but at least say they're okay. And most importantly: Final shot of s4 has Jancy, Jopper, Mike, El and Will all together watching how the Upside Down is now fully leaked into our world. And in the shot they have Jopper stand together holding hands and Jancy stand together holding hands. So the season ends on Jancy holding on and staring danger in the face again together, which is of course good. Plus the fact that they mirror Jopper in the scene, the Jopper ship was super realized in vol 2 with making out scenes and all.

The Stancy shipteasing remained just shipteasing and onesided. It was very gross to watch and completely unnecessary (the love triangle is absolutely not needed, they're doing Nancy a huge disservice and Steve as well). First shiptease moment in vol 2 is when Nancy comes out of Vecna's trance (Nancy has a really good scene with Vecna that opens vol 2 so that was cool), basically Vecna just lets her go after telling her everything (why he did that I don't fucking know maybe it'll come up in s5?) and when she snaps out of it Steve catches her and is like "I've got you". Gross but nothing more than that.

Then there's like a moment when they and Robin go into the UD again later, they like halt and look at each other for a moment but nothing more.

There's a scene where Steve randomly tells Nancy that his future dream is to have 6 kids and drive around the country in a winnebago WEIRD THING TO TELL YOUR EX WHO HAS A BOYFRIEND STEVE. Nancy is surprised and says "That's... nice?" and then is like "except for the 6 kids part". She clearly doesn't want to be a baby making factory in a winnebago. I take Nancy in that scene as not really into Steve's future dream but glad he suddenly has one after being so directionless previously. Then later when they're in the UD Steve tells her he wants Nancy to be the woman in that future dream, aka his baby making factory (my words not his but). Nancy looks at him shocked but Robin interrupts before she can respond.

Then they're p much busy fighting supernatural stuff so not anymore big shipteasing moments between them after that, that I can remember at least but I pulled a 13 hour shift before watching vol 2 so I might forget smth.

So the season ends with the Cali gang finally rolling back into Hawkins two days after the big battle. Jancy have a super sweet reunion, he lifts her up and everything, presses a kiss to her forehead. Apologizes for that she couldn't get a hold of him and she tries to start explaining what happened in Hawkins but he tells her he knows, and she's confused and he says he'll explain everything. During this Steve is in the background looking forlorn and Robin pats his back lol.

Then Jancy and El, Max and Will go to see Lucas and Max at the hospital (Max is in a coma). Jancy don't have any lines in this scene but I like that they took the kids.

Then they're at Hopper's cabin, where they plan to hide El. The cabin is in uh bad shape so Nancy whips everyone into cleaning mode. Jancy then have a scene where they talk while boarding up a hole in the wall. First they have a funny moment watching Argyle being weird. Then Jonathan says he's sorry he wasn't there, but Nancy says she's glad he was with Mike and Will. Then Jonathan says he's glad she was in Hawkins bc "Otherwise, who'd have been in charge? Steve?" WHICH IS TRUE everyone in Hawkins would've died 20 times over by ep 3 if it wasn't for Nancy. But here's what I despise the Duffers for, they then have Nancy say: "He's actually grown up quite a bit, you know?" Which is like, fine whatever, that's not saying she has feelings for Steve but it's just so weird to keep a little shipteasing alive still by having Nancy bring up Steve here. Then Jonathan asks if they're okay and Nancy says yeah, but there's some hesitation from both, then they agree it's hard and Nancy says "life keeps throwing things in the way of our big plans" and Jonathan is like "sure seems like it". Then Nancy jokes about putting "saving the world" on your college resume. Then she asks "not that it matters at all" if he's gotten his acceptance letter and he says no not yet and doesn't mention the community college thing. Then scene ends. Then Jopper show up and the Byers family have a sweet reunion as Nancy looks super happy watching it, then it ends with the final shot I mentioned above.

So this was rambling but yeah to sum up: I still think Jancy is endgame. But I hate how the Duffers have written them lately. I don't get why they try to keep the played out love triangle alive into s5 but I guess they think it's good for buzz around the show or whatever. Like I said I hate they have Nancy mention Steve in that last talk, not bc I think she has feelings for him, but bc it's just unnecessary. I think the other stuff they talk about in that scene, the feeling that life keeps throwing obstacles in their way, and the issue around their college plans, that's enough for tension in the relationship. The Stancy shipteasing is completely unnecessary because it's clear Nancy absolutely doesn't want what Steve wants. Also, given all the "looks" in the Stancy shipteasing moments, take note of this: The way Nancy looks at Jonathan is WAY different, deeper, happier, muuuuch more meaningful than how she looks at Steve.

I think Jancy will work through some issues in s5 and come out the other end together. The obstacle of issues around college plans can be solved a myriad of ways, and like Nancy and everyone else says by the end of s4, stuff like that don't really matter much anymore given everything else that's going on. Jancy will be together for s5, face off against evil together again, when they're at their best. And I do think they'll work through their shit and at the end be together.

[dasecretnebula]

Rating Stranger Things Ships:

Byler - 10/10

It’s cute and it makes sense! I feel like it has a lot of evidence! Like the parallels between canon ships! Also the fact that Will is canonically in love with Mike! I don’t think I thought this could be a thing before, but I later realized how beautiful this ship really is! It’s what I’ve been obsessed with for the past few weeks!! <3

Mileven - 3/10

I used to kinda like it more but idk. It’s not the worst but it’s a little weird. I don’t think the first thing El needed after being raised in a lab was a romantic relationship. Like Mike had to teach her what privacy was! He basically kinda raised her too?! And even in S4 it still wasn’t very good. I kinda wanted them to be friends from S1 tbh

Lumax - 8/10

I was just okay with it at first then I started to like it! It’s a pretty good ship! :) love how supportive Lucas was in S4. They’re totally endgame!

Elmax - 7/10

So cute!! I love the fanart! I don’t really ship it (mostly because of Lumax) but I still like it! I loved the scenes they had together. It was nice seeing El do things she actually likes with Max! I definitely like it more than Mileven.

Jopper - 10/10

Yess!! It’s my favorite canon ship and it’s nice knowing that it’s definitely endgame! (unless something happens in S5? Which it probably won’t) I looveee the idea of the Hopper-Byers family! It just feels so perfect! I need a Jopper wedding!!

Ronance - 7/10

I don’t feel like it’s canon but I like the idea of it! The fanart is so cute! Also they’re part of the “fruity four” and I love the idea of that! They make a good duo!

Steddie - 9/10

Also part of the fruity four. This might not have a lot of canon evidence and I didn’t really see it at first, but seeing all the fanart and stuff really made it grow on me! They would make a cool couple! I like headcanons that come along with this including bisexual Steve (because bi and lesbian solidarity) and then being Dustin’s dads!

Stancy - 2/10

Eh no. I don’t know why the shows trying to kinda make them a thing?? I don’t think it’s very good writing. Like it’s weird that they broke up in high school because Nancy realized she didn’t actually love him then she loves him again? Idk

Jancy - 7.5/10

Not my favorite but better than Stancy. I know they have problems or whatever but I think they can work it out. Like as long they don’t break up for Nancy to get with Steve! I think I mostly like this because I find it funny that three kids of the same family like a Wheeler lol! I like the Byler parallels too! Also Murray ships it so I say it’ll be endgame probably

Stonathan - 6/10

I kind like the idea of this! It would be interesting. One thing I think about a lot is how a “love triangle” usually isn’t actually a triangle, it’s more like an arrow ^, but if it were to be complete the two people in love with the one person would also be in love so then it would have three sides! It’s like:

Canon (typical “love triangle”). If Stonathan were a thing (real love triangle):

Steve Johnathan. Steve. ————Johnathan

\. /. \. /

Nancy. Nancy

So that would be fun and kinda satisfying! For a while I’ve wanted to see something like this happen!

Jargyle - 6.5/10

It’s wholesome but I don’t really ship it. The idea of weed smoking boyfriends chilling together is cute! Also them being dumbasses together

Harringrove - 1/10

Nah Billy is a jerk plus him and Steve really don’t get along

Anyway I’ve spent too much time on this 💀

[quidfree]

I agree with everything you said about the finale of Stranger Things 4. The ending is rushed and kinda lacks of emotional impact (really annoying bc it could have been so much better, like El and Hopper reuniting).

I kinda think the Duffers want to keep everything vague as much as possible for, like they said, "the big reveal in ss5", "everything comes full circle",... there's been discussions and analysises where ss5 will go down but it's just based on small hints and subtexts. It's like the main role of ss4 is a set-up for ss5, like an 'open-ending' where every scenario is possible, which is hella confusing tbh.

I have to admit that I was rooting for Will and Mike in vol1, but Vol2 makes me realise that Michael Wheeler is really in need of character development (pls give my boy Will the protangonist era back)

Sorry for my rambling, but i do want to know your take on the character dynamics and what are your most favorite scenes?

ah anon sorry for not answering for like a week, i conflated this w my other stranger things ask and deluded myself into thinking i had

i agree w your finale thoughts- i don’t follow the media circus around the show much but i do get the impression s4 is meant to be set-up for s5, which is very annoying to me because if you’re a good writer set-up should not negate storytelling… there are many shows which use a season to set something up but still tell a compelling standalone story in that season!

re mike and will, i’m fairly neutral abt it, the same way i feel abt all the canon ships in stranger things- the kid ships are all sweet enough, although this season mike and el have been kind of tiring for me (in part because mike did p much nothing this season except be el’s kind of dumbass boyfriend). in any event i think will and mike both could do w a return to early season protag focus and that will deserves an actual coming out and general arc in s5. also you can do better, will!

response to your qs on dynamics and scenes beneath the cut :)

looove steve and his kids obviously- steve and dustin are a no-brainer, but i do wish the others got a couple of real moments with him too (as may be obvious bc i literally wrote that).

steve and robin are very fun. the whole older teen group was great this season, since their personalities were a nice mix- i have to say eddie and steve were really enjoyable together. their dual older brother energy to dustin was very cute. as was eddie’s flirting. or whatever that was meant to be.

on siblings- wish we got some mike and nancy interaction ever. glad lucas and erica got brief moments this season. jonathan and will bonding was very good if brief and a missed opportunity to talk abt the rainbow elephant in the room.

families except the bylers continue to be hilariously absent in the show. when can CPS be called on these people. mikes mom hugging him dramatically will not make me forget how bad of a parent they all are lol.

always enjoy the friendships between the kids- liked will and el a lot this season even tho it was tragically understated, loved mike and will seeing lucas again in hospital, and max’s memories of the group in dear billy. mike and will’s conversations were also admittedly good, despite the unrequited love of it all- they had a relationship core to the show once, so it still holds some weight. i do like lucas and max a lot but i wish lucas wasnt spent so much on Being There For Max hes forever sidelined for no good reason.

underwhelmed by the russia storyline in general- hopper grated on me in s3 and im always team joyce so kind of tired w her having to put up w him and murrays “oh you” vibes but i do enjoy their battle-readiness as a couple. didnt care much abt yuri or the other russian guy (dmitri?) bc it all felt so overdone.

fav scenes: obviously max escaping vecna to kate bush (deserving of her renaissance). the others are going to be random excerpts bc my mind is blanking. eddie telling steve “harrington will drive wontcha big boy” + steve telling nancy he has 6 kids already. the part in the finale where everyone jumps through to the upside down and then throws their weapons through too bc the montage was fun. el throwing the helicopter and then telling papa to choke. will singing neverending story. the ep 7 monologue where 1 reveals the whole plot to nancy (jamie campbell bower fun). the finale segment where everyone is kicking ass and nancy has a shotgun. the way will is like “what friends??” and el goes “stfu” in ep whatever it is. el and max’s reunion. etc.

[jfkd19800]

well... just finished s4v2 of stranger things... I have some thoughts.

First ep length complaints. they def could’ve edited some shit down, but also I think it would’ve been better in 30min eps with like 20 eps in the season. Why aren’t shows doing that anymore??? They had perfect opportunities for good cliffhangers mid ep that should’ve been where the ep ended. Honestly it felt like this season was built for binge watching, none of the episodes really felt distinct. I will happily binge watch any show cause that’s how my brain works, but if I watched it an ep at a time, I don’t think I would’ve kept up with it since the eps were AN HOUR AND A HALF. That’s just not reasonable for a week night

Now spoiler time.

They said will’s sexuality was going to be talked about, it wasn’t. it was just pure gay pinning and the poor boy being in love with his straight friend. diddn’t have high hopes for willxmike, but I at least thought will say he’s gay. but NO

The max thing, i kinda get. But like what killed her? her eyes weren’t a bloody mess and her neck wasn’t snapped, WHAT KILLED HER? I did like the focus on max and el’s friendship, & how it links into how eleven increases her powers, & I get that she restarted max’s heart. But are they going to get into the theological shit of ‘max’s spirit’ needs to be returned to her body to wake up???

Now eddie’s death. litterally the same thing happened to steve, he should be fine. The timing doesn’t make sense, dustin literally jumped back into the upside down as quickly as he could. and are you telling me he didn’t jump on a bike to get to eddie faster??? that kid does not understand caution, I know he fucked up his ankle/foot, but like would that really stop him? Also eddie’s death felt cheap, like yay he didn’t run, but it’s not a payoff if he dies as a consequence of not running. Also dustin always saw him as a hero, so what is this? And eddie not getting recognized as innocent by hawkins is some bullshit.

(I understand they’re playing into the paranoia, but this feels half-assed and unfinished, no comeuppance, even the death of the captain of the basketball team, only lucas knows how he went, and only lucas saw him for the raging lunatic that he was, so the town’s gonna continue to idolize him)

Not saying I would’ve wanted this to happen, but steve was right there. he had his whole bit about wanting a big family and keeping hope and looking forward to the future despite all the shit. he’s right there. Steve dying for nancy, robin, or dustin (eddie at a push) would feel sincere & not half-asses. Also it’s a tv show about a girl with powers, everyone could live, there’s nothing stopping that, it felt like they were waiting for the kiddlets to grow up to finally kill off some characters, if they wanted ‘realistic’ someone from the main cast other than joyce’s boyfriend would’ve died s2 with the demodog/tunnels.

I read some other posts about how half the stuff they said would be addressed this season wasn’t and how a bunch of promo shots and characters seen bts just weren’t included. I’m assuming they started filming s5 at the same time & that netflix is doing the thing where the next season comes out in like 6 months. (which feels like bullshit for the post-production folks).

[fangsforfags]

Shameless Characters as Songs I like:

Frank Gallagher: Prescription by Mindless Self Indulgence. It talks about needing to take pills, and Frank Gallagher loves pills. Honestly it just suits him. 🤷

Fiona Gallagher: To Build A Home by Cinematic Orchestra. We shoulda seen this coming. I mean come one, she seriously went since she was 6 to keep her family together! She always tried for them and was always there for them--pretty much becoming like a mom, a parent, a "home" to her siblings. She's worked so hard to keep them home from Dcfs whenever they got separated. She was the only person close enough to a parent that cared for the kids, and she deserved so much better. She became a better mom than Monica and a better dad than Frank. She became the parent her siblings needed. She made sure they were safe because they are her life.

Lip Gallagher: Get It Up by Mindless Self Indulgence. I really didn't want to use another MSI song but there's a part in the song that says, "...just whatever you do don't talk about your fucking boyfriend while we're having sex..." And it just reminds me of Lip because there are times where his partner is talking about someone else while they do it and it just makes this song choice for him even more relatable.

Ian Gallagher: Wires by The Neighbourhood. I think this song goes good with Ian because there's a part where the singer talks about giving someone their medicine and I think of Ian. And the whole song reminds me of Ian and his bipolar because "the wires got the best of him," where the "wires" is his mental illness.

Debbie Gallagher: Smack a bitch by Rico Nasty. I was debating on songs because I dislike Debbie by a lot and was debating in using Lily Allen's song "fuck you." But I chose Rico's song because honestly Debbie isn't afraid to throw hands with someone. In s5, she went and beat up Holly and Ellie (for no reason bc Debs is a bitch like that) and fought that homeless lady in s7 over that corner. So, Debs throws hand.

Carl Gallagher: Teenagers by My Chemical Romance. Honestly, Carl is a tough, intimidating, ruthless person who could beat the shit out of you. I mean, even in early seasons Carl was kinda ruthless to people and pets. This songs just works for him.

Liam Gallagher: Cool Blue by The Japanese House. Honestly I see Liam as this song because Liam is this quiet, calm, collected kid and this song is soft and calm. Yes i know it's used in s1 of 13rw, but this song reminds me of Liam. It's just a nice song to listen to and Liam is pretty quiet and he's a nice kid too.

Mickey Milkovich: Mistakes Like This by Prelow. This song gives me closeted!Mickey vibes man. When the singer is pretty much saying how they can't stop thinking of a person but they know they shouldn't get involved, it reminds me of Mickey before he started actually caring about Ian. Because he wanted Ian, but he knew he shouldn't want him because of his dad. So he tries to keep Ian away with the "feelings" and all that shit.

Mandy Milkovich: Not Your Barbie Girl by Ava Max. We know that Mandy doesn't let guys use her. In s2 Mandy tells Lip that after a 3rd time they either figure it out or stop, meaning she wasn't gonna be someone that was used only for sex. She had plans for a relationship, and doesn't let boys control her. She's also held a shotgun to T*rry so respect for that. :)

Veronica Fisher: OMG by Iggy Azalea and Wiz Khalifa. I think this song goes to Ms. Veronica Fisher because nobody can compare to her. She's absolutely beautiful and she knows it. She's a bad ass bitch too and doesn't fuck with anybody that tries crossing her. A. Fucking. Queen.

Kevin Ball: Never Gonna Give You Up- Rick Astley. Haha, get Rick Rolled bitches. ✌😄 nah jk but Kev deserves this song because he's so fucking loyal from loving V and only V, to helping the Gallaghers when they need it. Kevin is a really loyal guy and loves everyone and is a protector for his friends and family. Everyone needs a Kevin in their life. :)

Karen Jackson: Daddy Issues by The Neighbourhood. Yes another song by them, deal with it. But this songs reflects Karen perfectly because her dad did humiliate her in front of a group full of people. He called her a whore and made her think he loved her again. It caused her to fuck up a lot and not care for consequences. But with her dad being a dick and her mom not really being there for her to see her succeed, it fucks you up.

Sheila Jackson: Ms. Jackson by The Outkast. "IM SORRY MS. JACKSON. NEVER MEANT TO MAKE YOU DAUGHTER CRY..." Lol but seriously i see Sheila with this song, well because she's Ms. Jackson. And that part I have quoted makes me think if Lip and Karen. But the song overall makes me think of Sheila. Sheila if you're reading this we miss you and want you back. :(

Yo if you got any songs you think would work better with them just comment! :)