#nathema arc

[anchanted-one]

Playing the Nathema conspiracy again.

Words can't describe how much I hate this arc. Sorry for the rant.

1. Reset button. The whole arc is a reset button designed to wipe zakuul and all KOTFEET plot points right off the board. To pretend, poorly, that it never happened. If you really wanted that done, just have us blow up the fleet while sacrificing the Gravestone. Only thing left is Zakuul's offscreen destruction.

2. Leaves us looking really foolish and incompetent. In just a matter of months, the Order of Zildrog manages to do what we couldn't in the main campaign. Songs are sung across the galaxy of how we, the player characters, had ultimate power in our grasp only for it to be snatched away by a relatively small cult.

3. A Gemini droid. A fucking Scorpio Clone. The ghost of that smug robot had to rear its head one last time. Not like i was itching for more self-important droid (AI is getting on my nerves irl as well). And she won. Got what she wanted

4. Vinn Atrius. A final reminder that Zakuul worships Valkorion. And sees us as having thrown the first punch. Heck, Zakuul even tells us we can fuck off now, since we no longer have a fleet. If the rival faction turns up to destroy them, I'd love to be the one to tell Vinn the tragic news. Remind him that destroying the alliance ironically led to Zakuul's final destruction. Like Gemini, he too accomplished his objective.

5. The nathema mission itself. Yet another moment when Force users forget they can use it. Literally drop the ceiling on zildrog! That would ending the stupid plot. And the idea of the secret allies... we don't know half of them, and the rest were irrelevant. Like Mortis. Why is he back? Now, of all times? And what's his beef with Lana?

6. The plot was way too dumb, and required our characters to be proportionately dumber. Even the villains suffer from this when needed. Theron alone could've foiled it in several different ways, since the 5D chess players trusted him so easily.

7. I just hate the Theron "betrayal" and the possible execution.

[thenachlegacy]

This is the outlander during the entirety of the Umbara/Nathema arc.

[cryo-lily]

Whaat? Has Hell frozen over? I’m actually sorta posting more about pieces I’ve been working on?? Jokes aside, I know It’s been forever since I was able to get back into writing formally with life blindsiding me once again but I digress!

Thank you Thank you to both @pentacass & @magicallulu7 for tagging me in the WIP Wednesday/whenever or Six sentence Sunday thingy. Sorry it took me so long to get around to...Whatever this turned into!

Isadola’s brow furrowed slightly as she tilted her head back up to meet her partner’s gaze once more, “It really doesn’t bother you?” she questioned, trying her best to hide the apprehension in her voice.

“You’re just asking this now? Why not back on Yavin years ago when-” Lana caught herself as she felt a wave of fear from the miraluka in front of her. It became clear to her then that Isadola was still learning to overcome her fear of letting anyone, even herself, see her without her mask; of possibly seeing the unfortunate scars across her eye sockets that she tried so hard to keep hidden behind the mask she always wore.

Before getting a full response back Isadola began to tilt her gaze toward the floor once again before the Sith caught her gently by the cheek and stopped her, tenderly running her thumb across her cheek. What little fear on the matter Isadola still had quickly melted away with the loving gesture, before the pair leaned in for a short kiss before pulling away.

“Does that answer your question?” Lana briefly smiled back, catching the other mid-blush.

“I’m not going to start crying if that’s what you're after…” Isadola joked as she pouted slightly, pulling away from her lover’s grasp. Making it clear if she could joke about it she was already feeling better.

The Sith tilted her head slightly taking in the little details of the Jedi’s face before responding. It was no secret to her by this point of her love’s unique traits even for her species. It being extremely rare for any miraluka to still have any genetic trace of the eyes they once had. Regardless if it was questionable that having only tear ducts allowed her the ability to cry at all, but the scars across Isadola’s face conveniently stopping at such features allowed her to fill in the gaps of her limited knowledge on the matter. It was clear whatever was done to Isadola when she was younger, they wanted some answers to the matter of the species losing their eyes and the connection of their ability to see with the force.

It all mattered little to her in the long run, what was done to Isadola didn’t define the reasons she had fallen for the Jedi in the first place. Noticing the black-haired woman had turned away from her again in a vain attempt to compose herself, “What’s this the wise Barsen’thor herself caught off guard once again?” Lana couldn’t help but poke some fun to try and break through whatever that still lingered in her love’s mind that had kept her so reserved this whole time.

“Do not call me that.” Isadola bristled, “I hated the title when it was given to me back then, and I hate that it still follows me now… Besides I’m no longer a Jedi anymore than you are a Sith'' She crossed her arms slightly frustrated.

“Speak for yourself Darling.” an eyebrow slightly twitched with annoyance with her partner seemingly wanting to be stubborn today.

“Oh forgive my lord. My deepest apologies…” Isadola half mockingly held a hand to chest as she bowed slightly.

A sly smile crossed the Sith’s face when she heard the rare imperial accent slip through the mocking statement made towards her, “Your accent is slipping again dear.”

Isadola bit her lip nervously, clearing her throat before responding back, “Well I suppose it’s good thing it’s just us then. Not that anyone would believe you that it was real at any rate” She couldn't help the gentle smile that crossed her face as she took another step closer once again to her partner.

**I have no idea who to tag for WIP Wednesday or Six sentence Sunday, so I suppose just whoever reads this and feels like they want to do it as well!

[ebitenpura]

Wheezes at his "I'm a resource??" like of course you are Eight, that's been your story arc ever since....well, your Intelligence days...

[christinethalassinou]

My poor Inky, going through yet another chain of traumatic events that will surely scar him for the rest of his life... Theron, you better be the most loving, caring and supportive partner ever. Ahiyah needs you.

(Yepp, did the 'Traitor Arc')

[lanabenikosdoormat]

HI MARS. THESE TWO FOR BOTH SOLARIAN AND JUNTER PLS 🥺 29. one headcanon about this OTP that breaks your heart 30. one headcanon about this OTP that mends it

Ata I’m going to CRY these are about to be so good thank you pookems.

SOLARIAN 🧡❤️

29. The whole Nathema arc. Aside from Lana of course, Theron and Jed were as close as can be. It’d been years since they’d been a thing by that point. And losing him was a pain like no other. Jed put on a face about it, he’d say he knew Theron was going to come back. But deep down he wasn’t even sure that was true. He’s lost everything before, of course it would happen again.

They don’t sleep in the same bed for like three months after. Not because they don’t want to, but because of Jed’s own fear.

30. I have so many! Jed and Theron both taking time to recalibrate each others cybernetics — because they’re the best at helping each other. Theron kisses Jed’s knuckles every time they say goodbye. Jed being taller than Theron and picking his ass up to carry him to bed when he’s being too much of a workaholic. SHARING CLOTHES. Holding each other at night when the nightmares get to be too much. When Theron starts to get his grays, teasingly calling him a “Silver Fox” and using that as a codename.

JUNTER 💚🧡

29. Literally everything about them. The fact they’re rabidly obsessed with one another to the point of delusion. That secretly they both wish they could leave behind their respective organizations but they’ll never actually act upon that. They’ll nearly kill each other and then make out sloppy afterwards. But they’ll never address it. Everything regarding Onomonophobia. At this point in Jed’s life he isn’t built for stability, and Hunter is anything but reliable. They’re both crashing into each other, destroying themselves from the inside out and it’s horrifying and beautiful to watch.

30. While posing as Legate, they’d spar a lot. It was always hate fueled from Jed’s perspective whereas Hunter thought it was a ball. But afterwards, they’d quietly slump side by side and sit in silence. They could just get up and storm away. But when neither of them are talking (and boy that’s a rarity) there’s something oddly familiar about it all. They’ll even help each other up, before going back to their terrible ways.

[larena]

Polyamory in SWTOR?

Performing a high-risk experiment in my current SWTOR playthrough. Romanced Koth in KOTFE/ET because I've never done it before, and I love him, and I wanted to see his Date Night (which is really great). But then got to the end of ET and though about how *little* content Koth gets after that point. He *may* get more in coming updates, since they got Ike Amadi in the booth for Date Night. But it's still so little. Meanwhile you know who's gotten a lot of screentime lately and I've also never romanced? Arcann. And I actually really like the paralels between my Jedi Knight's arc and Arcann's. But am I really gonna dump Koth for him? That doesn't seem great. Then I had a thought. You... don't have to actually do the "Things Left Unsaid" quest that leads to a character breaking up with you if you get with someone else. What if I just... date Arcann *and* Koth. And I was very unsure if this would work. I don't know how the flags work in SWTOR - would Arcann's romance flag override Koth's anyway even if I didn't do the mission? But I was curious, and it seemed like a decent risk. So I started Arcann's romance, and untracked Things Left Unsaid, and went forward waiting to see what happened. And so far, just before starting Jedi Under Seige... it seems like it's working. I received Koth's post-Umbara romance letter, *and* saw Arcann's romance scene pre-Nathema. And Arcann's Date Night is available as well. We'll have to see if I get Koth's romance scene in Hearts and Minds but I'm feeling confident. Very happy to get my extremely unintended form of polyamory. If anyone at Broadsword sees this, please don't fix this. Or make the fix just *enabling* dating everyone for real.

[tiredassmage]

🖊 + may i hear your thoughts about whoever is on your mind.. a crumb of meowmeow...

*coughs.* I've held onto this for way longer than I ever thought I would or planned to and since we all are missing Tyr (affectionate), I'm going to attempt to put some Tyr content on the feed. I am only slightly sorry that it's the heartbreaking, feels-filled and fueled kind, lol.

So! *claps my hands together* We're going to need a spoiler cut because I'm going to talk about the Nathema Conspiracy again. Maybe properly for once. Because boy howdy is there a lot Tyr Deckard has never unpacked about the implications of the Nathema Conspiracy! [Edit: and some. Agent specific and other general story spoilers from before that point as well. General advice: this post is for after the Nathema Conspiracy arc is resolved, lol]

Iokath and onward has really interesting implications with Tyr for a boatload of reasons, really. As Alliance Commander, the decision to ally with the Republic on Iokath puts him in opposition with Acina - who, if memory is serving correctly and if not is just my own personal taste of how the story plays - is serving around the Dark Council and eventually on it in the era where Tyr was actively serving in Imperial Intelligence, or at least shortly after it. While I can't claim to have successfully completed the Dread Masters nor the Seeker droid questlines because of those sneaky little operations and heroics they tacked on at the end of those quest lines, I've sent Tyr to work for Acina on early Dread Seed investigations at least once, and to say the least, it leaves a bitter taste in his mouth. Certainly her remarks on Iokath do the same - it solidifies that impression, the story as Tyr knows it, that he's only been as good as his work wasn't too much of a risk for the Empire, and for the Council in particular.

Which is kind of its whole own separate ramble that isn't what I said we'd talk about, but I'm not sure I've really publicly discussed it and foggily I think it's only been implied in some of my older fic writing here or there. Which... is a bit of a shame, really. Empress Acina nearly seems like a Sith he might be able to work with, up until that moment. Intelligence should have retired you when they had the chance - the kind of proof for Tyr's opinion that the Empire hasn't changed in the nearly twenty years he's spent in his Intelligence career. In hindsight, it probably feels foolish to have ever considered maybe some experience would've taught her something, to give just enough belief that the Empire might finally have a leader that would take it in a direction of improvement, but... Unfortunately, nothing that happens there and after really gives him much time to linger on it.

But, again, that's... a different podcast for a different day, as I've fondly picked up from a recent professor, lol.

SO. About the actual promised subject of this post, lol! I always have to be very careful introducing Tyr in my mind palace to the traitor arc as a story piece in general because... here's the thing... Tyr's incredibly loyal, at his core. But he's loyal in the way that he'll tear himself apart to save you the trouble of trying to do the same thing. His loyalty is the kind where he asks to be told the truth so he can lie for you.

And also the kind of loyalty where he'd pull a trigger on you for the sake of a long-term bigger picture outcome where you might be better off. Were the roles much different, Tyr very easily could've been the Alliance traitor, and unfortunately for anyone he cares for, I know he'd sell the role hook, line, and sinker. Which for now is just sort of a thought exercise @ho1ythunder and I like to torture our blorbos in occasionally, for the most part, rather than... a primary version of events, if you will. But it's a very interesting and chewy one because very few other instances tempt Tyr to show his loyalty in such a spectacularly disastrous (for himself and others) fashion, and therefore I think a lot of those closest to Tyr just... don't really. know, entirely, that he's... that way. He's incredibly good at masking such edges in the careful dance of duties he performs.

His loyalty and his saying he'd never (like to) hurt the people he cares for is no less genuine for this reality of him, certainly. But Tyr Deckard is not a man who does anything by halves, and on a gamble like the one against the Heralds for the sake of the Alliance and a Commander he'd trust and be loyal to? That's the last job in the galaxy to ever do by halves, if he wants even half a shot at it actually working in the Alliance's favor.

Tyr's the type that would end up in the Alliance either way, likely - very likely as an Intelligence asset, if not finally in a directing and overseeing operations role by that point in his life and career. He's likely worked with Lana practically from the start on locating the Outlander; they already served fairly close together in Sith Intelligence and Tyr is... not really the type to stay idle about something like Zakuul. He was already uneasy in the Empire given his... sympathies and mission history, after all, and the Republic's just as deep up Schitt Creek, if you will, about Zakuul, so defection to the SIS isn't really an ideal option at that point anymore.

The Alliance was where he could do the most good. He believes in that idea - of pulling together both sides, of forging something new and possibly better to confront something bigger than any one of them. And as Nine, he's played more than his fair share of spy games with shadow organizations - from the Star Cabal to the Shroud to the Revanites.

Regardless of how the Eternal Throne is resolved, unrest is almost a given with that much change going down in Zakuul. With the resources of Alliance Intelligence, it's... no stretch to consider someone with Tyr's track record could hunt down the Heralds. And it maybe should be little surprise he'd infiltrate them and play along to try to get information.

Unfortunately up to and including setting up an Umbaran train incident. To put the business end of a blaster against someone he likely respects and trusts. Someone he could even be quite close with.

Because he promised he'd never let a threat like the Heralds get that deep, that close to destroying what you've built.

Or, if you've been... less kind... Well. Tyr's had a bit of enough of his life being out of his own hands. Still, it's a lot of deaths on the line. A lot of lives.

Either way, the Heralds have to be stopped.

Infiltration. Assassination. Manipulation. All specialties of your ex-Cipher. Is it really any wonder he'd go so far? A doubt he's not above planting himself. For the sake of the cover. For the sake of keeping enough of Atrius's faith in his commitment and ability to follow through to figure out what he needs to gain the Alliance an edge it desperately needs.

And that is all interesting enough, I'd say! But no, I couldn't ever be that nice to him. I have to go and make sure Shara Jenn's involved regardless of him not being the main character! Because frankly Shara's reappearance on Nathema could ALSO probably be its own post and Tyr to this day STILL hasn't unraveled for me how he feels about it (his argument is that she already said there's nothing for them to discuss. And he can do many things; raise the dead and make amends with them is not among them). So her with a Tyr that's actually working for the Alliance within the Heralds is EXTRA chewy and interesting!

Because I like to believe she still remembers enough about how he works. Still remembers the younger Cipher Nine that stood against Darth Jadus, with no backup available and only her in his ear for advice, and argued with her that the human cost of the Eradicators was unacceptable. Her idealistic underneath the pragmatic facade of a well-trained operative Cipher Nine that defied the second most powerful living Sith, likely knowing full well it was likely a futile gamble with his own life.

That Cipher Nine doesn't match the work of the Heralds here. Oh, sure, they talk, they make nice. Maybe even rekindle a bit of those lost nights shared between them on Dromund Kaas nearly a lifetime ago now. But they're both playing a game.

A part of him still loves her - loves the woman he used to know. He may never have been able to fully trust her again after the Castellans - it was hard for him to trust anyone, but it made what he felt for her no less real. Maybe the same parts of her that are suspicious of his working against the Heralds' goals, the same parts that likely drive her to share advice with Atrius that this ex-Cipher she knows can't really be trusted outside of arm's reach... Maybe those same parts of her would like to still trust him.

But it doesn't matter. Imperial Intelligence is still gone. Cipher Nine's an Imperial ghost story. And it's been a long time since she's answered to Keeper of Operations Division.

And it's this... nexus of everything, everything it costs that... Normally, if it had been just any One of these acts in isolation...

If it'd just been the train. If it'd just been putting a blaster bolt through a trusted ally and friend? He likely could live with doing it again.

But all of it? An ultimate accusation from Atrius that he's betrayed everything and everyone he's ever claimed to hold loyalty for?

Imperial Intelligence for the deal with Ardun Kothe. Shara, for the same deal. He turned his back on Sith Intelligence to run off on this 'ghost hunt' with Lana. He's betrayed the Alliance now as well.

And all of that still nearly cost the Alliance everything. It almost didn't work. It nearly kills him. The hope he had for Shara to have made it out of this web of lies and madness that mired Intelligence in its cannibalization is utterly extinguished by her even being involved with the Heralds. He couldn't save her.

Was it worth it..? Was the cost... really worth it? Even in victory? Even though there's an Alliance left to judge his actions?

Little else - perhaps... nothing else he's done or survived has ever... really felt too far. But this would be. This was, he painfully realizes once the act's already finished. When there's nothing left but sparking machinery and the tang of blood on his tongue.

He might not be able to bear to ask for forgiveness, the bitterness of it all is so strong. He couldn't believe he'd deserve it, for what he's done. For what it's cost.

But will you? Could you? Enough to make him live with the guilt and the shame.

And if you could, well... Cipher Nine might finally cede he's been at this perhaps... too long. Another call like that.... It shouldn't have happened in the first place.

And THAT. That!!!!! To find a scenario where someone like Tyr, who... I'd say almost doesn't know how to quit. He doesn't just... give up, on anything. I'm sure a fair few would wish it'd take less to make him consider slowing down, to finally hang up the drive to be something like Atlas, with the weight of everything always upon his shoulders. But... damn, it sure is chewy something finally could. >:3

Tyr Vaiken Deckard, the man that you are etc etc. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

[serenofroses]

Kinda sad the new (Vaylin) hair won't work with Jadis' armour (Venerated Mystic or alternatively the Voss Inquisitor) due to clipping in the back (the chestpuece has to be a flat surface for the back).

maybe I find her a new armour that work with the hair, and say she changed armour before or during Dread Wars arc.

though it does not clips through on Nathema Zealot. hm.

[pentacass]

I know it’s not your canon for your OCs; but how different do you think things would be if Ves *was* the Outlander? How would Lana have dealt with that loss and how would Ves have dealt with everything? I’m so fascinated by the thought of it

^ ask equivalent of throwing my brain into a blender loll thanks for the ask!! <3 Short answer:

Long answer:

Things will be much bloodier. And, unfortunately, post-KotET Ves will not become a better person (or heal, at least) as she does in canon.

Let's do this based on my fic: where Ves meets Lana much earlier in the timeline, because I'm not sure Ves is able to fall in love so quickly, and with so much happening between SoR - KotET.

With this, things will be simultaneously much better and much worse for Lana when Ves is thrown into carbonite. Better because their bond already exists, and she knows for certain that Ves is still alive. Worse because her search spans five long years, which makes her question her own sanity in darker moments, wondering if she isn't just deluding herself with an imagined presence. When the carbonite poisoning sets in, Lana will feel so much more pressure to find her soon, before losing her forever.

Finding Ves will be a huge relief, and after Ves becomes the Commander, I'd wager things couldn't be better for Lana. The Commander, her hope, and her love are one - her direction is clear, loyalty unquestioned. Ves is hers to follow unto death.

There will be angst about pushing her love to the forefront of danger of course, but that's a given for any Outlander who romances Lana. I just find this interesting because it contrasts with Lana's actions in my fic, where she chooses not to turn to Ves, instead following some Force-led belief to find the Jedi Knight who would be Outlander. This creates tension within Lana: that she'd placed a saviour's mantle on her friend's shoulders, in order to protect her love from facing the same risks.

So Lana will have things easier, in a sense, for this AU :p Same for Ves too, up til the end of KotET. After, however... *sharpens knife*

Waking from carbonite after five years will not faze her badly - she'd seen and done much weirder shit. Being thrown right into a race to save the galaxy won't slow her down either - she'd won the struggle from slave to Dark Lord. She can and will ascend further onto the Eternal Throne.

What will drive her is the need to take revenge on Arcann and, more importantly, to relieve the pain Lana had endured through the five-year search.

With Darth Avriss at the helm, the Alliance takes a much darker path - enemies are executed without hesitation, allies kept on a tight leash. No regard is given to Zakuulan lives - she lets the reactor explode, and cripples Zakuul with Kaliyo's bombs.

When the time comes, she'll kill Senya for protecting her son, slay Arcann with the galaxy as witness, and end Vaylin without remorse. She will claim the throne as Empress, to Lana's delight.

She'd have an easier time with Valkorion squatting in her head, having been through it before. But Valk's presence does disturb her - she can feel faint ripples of the power he keeps hidden beneath the surface. He isn't under her control, and she knows he's a snake lying in the grass, waiting to pounce. So she doesn't take any of his offers, only falling prey to it that first time to save Lana. (Who proceeds to kick her ass about it.)

She doesn't kill Theron during the Nathema arc, knowing Lana would be upset by it, deep down.

But here's the kicker for Ves, post-Alliance. In this timeline, she hadn't suffered through Zakuul's invasion, watching her own power fray, confronted by the ephemerality of everything she'd built in the Empire. Her spirit hadn't been broken by her own struggle against a superior force. Her belief in the Sith Empire and her own power is still intact, and she is determined to get it all back.

Her Alliance joins the Empire. She wrests back her own seat on the Dark Council, and reclaims the title of Darth Avriss in full. She is restored to her former glory, power at her fingertips, love at her side, and yet, yet.

The core struggle of Vestra's character is this - she is someone who was meant to walk in the light, but was stolen by the dark. She was born with a heart that loves unabashedly, that will fight hard to right wrongs. Even as a slave, with hope dimmed in her eyes, she worked with her parents to care for the others, protecting slaves younger and weaker than her.

Then the Sith came and broke her, rebuilt her, taught her to view the world through blood-smeared eyes. She took to her new life and flourished, yes; but she is also prone to vicious self-hate if she looks into the eyes of her reflection for too long, to moments in the dark with a knife's point held to her own chest, to drowning herself with spice and sex to escape her reality.

When she returns to the Empire, with an Alliance purged of those who'd be willing to help her (my JK and JC), she cuts off all possibility of climbing out of this cycle of self-hate and destruction.

Lana would still be happy with her, in all her power-drunk, strutting glory. But Ves, Ves, Ves. I'm sorry. You will die thinking that with your passing, the galaxy will be made a better place.

[wayfinderlegacy]

I may not LIKE the traitor arc, but the Nathema flashpoint is pretty! ...I would honestly love an absolutely gratuitous story piece where we time travel back to when this place was Medriaas because as local Sith Nerd I would LOVE to see this city (at least it looks like a city in a lot os portions of the flashpoint) in its prime!

...Need to work on my Sith Pureblood headcanon lore doc some more because I have THOUGHTS about those temples!

[sullustangin]

Just wanted to say that your Eva/Theron series is amazing. I just finished your Yavin 4 story. It's so rare to find a finished piece with this kind of length and quality. Although romance is clearly the main part of the story, I also loved your secondary characters, especially Kallig and Fria. I loved the conversations about the nature of the force and the odd friendship between these two. Any plans to include these two characters in more of your writings?

Thank you so much! The Yavin fic is probably the biggest thing I'll ever complete (or attempt to complete!). There were a few moments when I was just thinking, "Oh, I need more OCs."

Then it became "oh noes, too many OCs, I need a spreadsheet, a 20-sided die, and a bottle of Bombay Sapphire." :D It worked out.

Spoilers for the series below the cut for those who wish to avoid them:

Yes, Fria and Kallig will be seen again in the series, sporadically. There is a LOT that will happen between now and when Fria joins the Alliance full-time. She joins shortly after the resolution to the Nathema Conspiracy and after Theron and Eva elope. I wrote about it here as part of the second anniversary of Eva's creation. This has wider arc spoilers, buuuut at the same time there's a LOT in between that the reader won't be spoiled on.

Fria and Rass Ordo may be a thing? I don't know yet. This is still very nebulous -- I'll have to see what Fria says when we get there. But Rass is smitten.

[swtorpadawan]

Well...if you're doing it again. Pages 42, 173, and 210 for your dearly departed and presumably still cherished writing journal.

Thanks for this ask, @abysskeeper !

‘Bad Ideas’ - My Writing Journal - Is Dead So i can't show you guys the screencaps, since some of the notes on these pages may be used in future WIPs.

Having said that….

Page 42: This is a side project that i might never actually go through with. Star Wars in general - and SWTOR in particular - has not been kind to the Rodians. Most SWTOR Rodians are petty, selfish, cowardly and annoying, regardless of who they are or what they are actively doing. Sure, a few are antagonists, but strictly as patsies. That's my postion. Page 42 includes a list of the Rodians you encounter in the game, and how their characterization buries an entire species.

Page 173: So… my Halcyon Legacy differs veers greatly from the "canon" story post-Knights of the Eternal Throne. The canon story gives you the "Traitor" arc and the confrontation with the "Order of Zildrogg". Mine doesn't do that. Having said that, their IS a secret order, one that includes several established enemies from the game. (Remember "The Nathema Conspiracy" where some of the enemies are player dependent? That was cool.) Page 173 was an early list of characters for MY Order. MY Conspiracy. That's gone through some iterations since i came up with the idea, but several of them are still on the "current" list, and it discusses their motivations for plotting against the Eternal Alliance.

Page 210: This is a list of "random" headcanons for my Halcyon Legacy that didn't seem to fit in any other area. Most of it is boring, but some fun parts include various friendships that form between Alliance members. One example is Ashara and Guss, two characters who don't fit into the Jedi/Sith dynamic. They're very different, of course, but both are kinda outsiders. Another pairing is Doctor Lokin and Darth Malora, both of whom give off serious "mad scientist" vibes. I imagine two two discussing their experiments over tea.

Hope this is interesting. Thanks again!

[cryo-lily]

HEY

about that thingie with losing a loved one who doesn't stay as a ghost. how does it happen for issie and lana? (pls take this as a cue to drop every single juicy angst deet and more if you wanna :p)

Thanks @pentacass for the ask! Sorry it took me a bit to get this answered.

Now for the rabbit hole of angst since you asked! *(cracks knuckles)* So where to start...

For Isadola & Lana- Their bond grew stronger as time went by. When you take either half away from the other it leaves a void that the other can't stand, leaving them empty in a way. But if there was ever one out of the two them that wouldn't linger as a ghost I'd be Issie, for a variety of reasons beyond Isadola's connection to death (Sith Inquisitor AU Issie reference).

And Lana not having a reason why Issie doesn't linger for her would leave her trying to tear at the empty space for answers. Even during Isadola's stint in carbonite was too close to this for Lana's comfort. At the fringes of her senses Lana felt Isadola wasn't gone but the faint feelings of Issie's agony, despair, and pain being like wisps of smoke just beyond her reach, leaving her with a drive for answers of what happened- and a need she probably ignored of wanting to fill the void it left, beyond the wider issues growing in the galaxy during Isadola's absence.

That all assumes Issie dies in some natural form but not killed. But then that poses the question I've floated around myself of:

What would worse for the galaxy? Lana losing Issie, or Issie losing Lana? And to be honest I'm not sure. But I wouldn't guarantee that either would be good, if either had their bond forcefully severed and one being taken away from the other. Leaving the other empty and angry. Having that void in the force, the emptiness left behind by the other. I'd honestly worry about how far either of them would go.

And if any of this happened after they started their family would only make the overall issue worse. Lana having to try and cope with that void in the force that deprives her of the comfort she had gotten used to over the years. But also being reminded of Isadola whenever she'd see their 3 biological daughters, or even seeing a lot of Issie's personality in Orla too. Which would only make that emptiness worse.

Meanwhile Issie losing Lana would just send her off the deep end, the final straw. After losing nearly everything serving the galaxy she loses the love of her life would be a point of no return for her. As Theron got a very brief glimpse of when he shot Lana on the Umbaran train in the Nathema arc.

Okay- this rambled more than I intended, but hopefully some of this rambling was a decent answer lol. Honestly your short post about this same topic with Ves & Lana was probably 1000% better worded than this scatter brained response.

Regardless Thank you Thank you for the ask! I don't get many of them for Isadola or the Shir Legacy ^-^

[ebitenpura]

Wip Wednesday

Awawa, it's upon us again! Wow, it's been awhile. I'm sure I've missed too many of these I've lost count, but if I've ever been tagged I love and appreciate you and am sorry my writer's gauge ran empty at that time. Now, onto the wip.

It's Nathema Conspiracy hours in my brain, specifically thinking about that botched Watcher 2 reunion and then the whole deal with Eight's version of the Traitor arc where he goes with Theron and...lots to think about. lots to unpack.

“You!” Vinn Atrius bristled at the sight of Theron, who quickly drew his blaster and answered in kind. The Zakuulan knight shrieked as the bolt impacted against the exposed portion of his armor, sparking and smoking. He spun and tumbled to the ground, motionless. 

“Been wanting to do that for ages,” Theron grit out, his expression flinty and hard. Betrayal was a two-headed snake, but he was more than happy to bite the hand that fed him. What was it Vinn said to him? ‘Know your place?’ 

He knew his place. Exactly where it was. 

Theron glanced back at Eight and Lana just a breadth’s width behind him. 

Eight’s stare was steady, razor focused as ever. Yet behind those dark, murky eyes was a man who devoted himself to causes beyond the pale, to people he loved, and Theron’s gaze softened.

Even when the world was against him, Eight had chosen to follow because he hadn’t wanted Theron to be alone. Words didn’t even begin to explain what Theron felt for the other operative, who had broken through the walls he'd built around himself as a spy just to make sure Theron wouldn’t regret his choices.

Theron set his jaw. A soul like that deserved more than what the Alliance had burdened him with. 

Lana locked eyes with him next, pulling him away from Eight. 

For a moment Theron could sense the uneasy mistrust behind those intense eyes of gold. He’d left her hurting and confused ever since Umbara, and if Lana was anything, it was frighteningly driven when her anger was given form. He couldn’t say he deserved her friendship at this time, nor the trust of the Alliance. For all he knew, she’d come here specifically to choke the life out of him. Letting her was a stretch, but…

As if sensing the guilt gnawing at him from inside out like a worm that had buried itself in his guts, Lana’s tight-lipped demeanor gave way to a flicker of emotion– and she nodded.

To the end, whispered the memory of those heartracing moments when they promised to die fighting together seizing the throne. He tightened his pistol grip.

Right. To the end. 

Emboldened, he quickly turned his attention to the remaining offender, only for his advance to be stopped short by the hexagonal net of the rayshield activated by GEMINI 16. 

Theron banged on it with the butt of his pistol, frustration mounting in his blows- it didn’t give. 

“Theron,” Eight called to him, anxiety painting his usually collected voice in an odd note that Theron had never heard  before.

“Organics fight so hard for their survival. But you’re too late–the thrones have been filled. Zildrog is summoned.” GEMINI 16’s monotonous voice grated against his ears. Theron banged harder against the forcefield, futile as it was.

“Theron!” Eight sounded desperate– frantic, even. Theron whipped around. 

Eight’s gaze was trained on one of the pods. It contained a woman in an Imperial uniform, her eyes closed as she sat unnaturally still in the seat of her cage. 

Theron recognized her from the holo as the one who had set the guardian droid on them. Shara, Eight had called her, with a wistful air that bordered on nostalgic. 

His voice contained none of that gentleness now, all previous softness cut away like the dull trim of a knife on a sharpening block as his attention turned to their enemy. “What have you done to these people?” Eight leveled at Gemini 16, the midnight of his eyes compressed into fine points of lethal focus.

The promise of death, the ring of metal removed from its sheath- a silent fury so intense it raised goosebumps on Theron’s forearms roiled beneath that smooth veneer like ink released into water, and the SIS spy felt nothing but pity for those who had ever earned Cipher Eight’s ire– an honor not even Emperor Arcann had been subjected to. 

Unphased by his intimidation display, GEMINI 16 continued. “They served a purpose they hadn’t anticipated– fuel for Zildrog’s awakening.

First, he will destroy the shackles that kept me enslaved to your kind. Then he will obliterate your pathetic Alliance as a reward to Atrius for playing his part.”

[alakirist]

Well, I was told to scroll past which is a sure way to get me very curious, so of course, I read it xD.

I see what you’re getting at, and I think this was their intention, that both Arcann and Vaylin were broken in their own way, but they just failed to execute it. You say yourself that there should’ve been options to not use Vaylin’s conditioning, but the lack of those options means that the entire point of the story is lost, in my opinion at least. The tragedy of “a person being broken beyond any help” does not work if nothing of substance was even tried. The Outlander can’t refuse to use her conditioning, can’t show any sympathy over Nathema. Arcann never apologizes for betraying her, and neither does Senya. There were no good attempts, if there were and those didn’t work either than this would’ve been made sense and have been actually tragic.

Vaylin and Senya

Vaylin hating Senya should not have been something that should’ve used as a proof that she’s irredeemable and beyond help, and I think the writers intended for it to be so, unfortunately. Senya get her away to be tortured for years while promising that it would help her while Vaylin was a little child, that must sting horribly. It’s something some people would never able to forgive, it’s not even comparable with any irl forms of abuse considering the force’s involved, and while Senya did come to regret it but by that point Vaylin was not only abused, but her brain was tampered with both chemicals and force powers by that point, she was a broken person who was left in a nightmarish cage and forced to become a monster.

Now, of course, wanting to kill her is going overboard, but I don’t think hating Senya or wanting nothing to with her is. I hope that when they bring Vaylin back as Syl, she will have her own story focused around Satele and their newly formed relationship. Senya and Arcann are dead for some people, so the best way to include them for those that are alive would be a couple of interactions where Vaylin let’s go of her hatred and just says that she wants to live a life without them because she can’t get past them hurting her. It would be a very mature and bittersweet conclusion to their arc. And of course this would mean that for people for whom they’re dead they can still enjoy a full arc with Vaylin rather than it being severely trimmed down because you killed relevant characters two years ago.

2. Arcann, Vaylin, and glee

I see a lot of people say that Arcann didn’t show any pleasure in committing atrocities while Vaylin did, and I don’t think it’s fair. This is not the only variable in who deserves redemption arc or any sympathy at all, and not all of them get discussed.

First of all, Arcann did actually show glee. While I agree it was overall less than Vaylin but it’s still very much there. Just look at his Asylum fight. He says “You will hang on my wall for eternity”, after he kills HK he enthusiastically says “I can’t wait to kill all you friends”, at the start of the chapter he brags about killing scions because they are “blinded by faith and prophecies” while he makes hard choices and forges his own path, all while standing on a pile of scion corpses. He also says Mandalorians kamikaze-zing themselves is amusing. It may not be as much as Vaylin but to say that he takes no pleasure in his villainy is incorrect. Could they write this differently? Absolutely, they could portray Arcann as someone who tries to be a semi decent ruler who despite his tyranny, is not a maniacal mass murdered. They could’ve Mande Vaylin be the one who commits crimes, either pushing Arcann to commit them or going rogue and committing them herself. But they didn’t, and I don’t want to let bad writing slide just because the non-conveyed intent probably had more sense than the presentation. The presentation is what we god.

Secondly, there is body count. Now, of course both Arcann and Vaylin are responsible for countless of people’s deaths, and it would be silly to say one is more deserving of redemption because one of them has a bit more zeros on their number, but it is important to note that Arcann commits greater atrocities, they are just always off-screen. Vaylin kills three knights because she doesn’t like odd numbers? Arcann makes them all fight each other to death until one half kills the other(!!!). Vaylin bombs Voss? Arcann bombs five planets but we never see the process nor are those planets the players are familiar with in some way. Vaylin kills a comp? Well, so does Arcann, but he conveniently got a resurrection chapter just before the choice to redeem Arcann dropped(I know it’s easier to bring back a droid than a person of flesh and blood without force, but I’m willing to bet there was some sentiment of ‘people won’t hold HK against Arcann when it comes to Voss, so you know, now would be a good time to give him a resurrection plot’). Also, Arcann commits actual definable genocide as he exterminates a religious order, which are included in the Wikipedia definition just like ethical and racial groups. Vaylin does not, all she cares about is killing specific people. Yeah she kills people Arcann tells her to kill, including the scions and the 5 bombed planets, but she wouldn’t have done without Arcann’s command, so most of the responsibility hinges on him. However, this isn’t what I believe to be a pivotal matter in comparing the two. All the body count stuff does is just make me question whether Arcann deserves any redemption or forgiveness at all. I believe that a certain point the person has crossed a moral horizon where their ability to change doesn’t matter, they should die either way to deliver retribution to countless people they harmed in their rampage. Onto the next one.

There is a matter of diminished responsibility. I don’t know much about it beyond a quick Wikipedia skim, so sorry if I’m making mistakes, but it seems like something that is used in courts to lessen the criminal’s sentence if there were strong mitigating circumstances as they were not completely in their mind. Vaylin, I believe, qualifies. It doesn’t help that the purpose and effect of many of the torture scenes isn’t clear and is just thrown there for edge, we know quite a bit. She had chemical implants installed in her brain, was forced to spend years on a planet that drives force sensitives to madness and hollows them out as people(just look at Lana’s reaction or what) became of Nathema zealots after prolonged exposure. She is also shown to have been suggested to rituals which in the trailer shown to forcefully have made her eyes go yellow. It seems to go beyond just abuse and torture, it’s actual brainwashing. She is never directly mindcontrolled in her twisted state, but the reason she ended up in this state was due to a uniquely mortifying experience that most Star Wars characters and literally not a single person irl can grasp. I think that makes jer legible for diminished responsibility.

Arcann doesn’t have that. I will say that I know many people say that comparing abuse is bad but in this case, I don’t think so. It would be bad if Arcann and Vaylin were not massive war criminals and this whole abuse discussion wasn’t central to how sympathetic or deserving of forgiveness at all they are. Arcann is never shown to have been victim of forceful rituals, his mind was never tempered with and while he did have harsh physical training with knights, Valkorion, but Valkorion never twisted him the same way he did Vaylin. The main source of Arcann’s rage is shown to be his father’s detachment or neglect, which is kinda the exact opposite of what he did with Vaylin. He took interest in Vaylin because she showed power, because she showed potential that he didn’t see in the boys. His treatment didn’t go behind being the victim of dismissal or neglect of a clever abuser, but that doesn’t put him on the same level as Vaylin or at least it shouldn’t. The force seemed to reinforce his inner evil, but it was never enforced upon him. Like Dooku, Maul, Anakin, many others, he was nudged towards dark side by a person who was pure evil, but he never has his choices or freedom taken away from him the way Vaylin.

Their cases not comparable as it this point I call bullshit of the narrative of ‘Vaylin being troubled from the start’(btw Senya says the boys were aggressive in one of the dialogues as well, so they weren’t perfect flowers either). I don’t see how a person that became evil of his own volition with a ‘push’ from outside forces is somehow better and more sympathetic or deserving of redemption than someone who was literally drowned forcefully in the sea of darkness, if we’re talking metaphorically.

but maybe their message is “it doesn’t matter how many crimes you’ve committed, what truly makes a person redeemable is that they can and want to change”? Perhaps, but they messed that up too.

3. Arcann’s ‘redemption arc’

Or to call it like it is, a brainwashing arc. Saying he chose to make amends is not too different from saying that the Imperial Agent choose to be a loyal servant of the Republic that hides info from their own organization. Okay, not THAT bad, but running up. He made no choice to become better, at all.

One thing he unquestionably chose to do was to save Senya. Does this show that he’s somehow capable of change? Not really. I guess you could say it’s similar to Vader saving Luke in the iconic ROTJ moment, but Vader’s redemption is just getting him a few peaceful moments with his son who forgives him before Vader dies. No one is forced to deal with Vader roaming around freely or not serving any punishment, this redemption arc is very much between Vader and Luke. If Vader actually did survive and got the Arcann treatment, I’d be very quick to call Luke a selfish asshole who puts one family member above the wounds that were inflicted on the entire galaxy.

So what about Arcann? He never hated Senya, him saving her was in character for who he was in KOTFE. He never hated his mother, he never openly defended her near Vaylin either, but he was far less enthusiastic about killing her as you said yourself. He even nudged Vaylin to remember some of the good times they spent with her in chapter 13, a failed attempt but it was still there. I don’t think he would’ve killed Senya even if she lied at his feet, defeated, at least not without enough hesitation to let her slip away. He felt all that while still bombing planets, bragging about genocide, hanging off the walls, and his carbonate collection. Both of those were path of his character. So yeah, him saving Senya after she mourns his loss and pouted out her heart is natural development and does not contradict anything we see from him before.

The ONLY case where he shows any remorse if he goes through a shady Voss ritual which ‘cleansed his rage’ and ‘washes away the hate’(it’s even in the dialogue). What happens if you kill Arcann’s mom? Well, he doesn’t t change at all, he remains the power hungry dictator with the only change is that he accepted the love for his mother and wants to avenge her. There is no learned lessons, there is no desire to fix mistakes. He could’ve been trying to become a better ruler and fix the mess his family created without wanting to ally with the Outlander. He doesn’t do any of that. To be fair, I once tried to look at Dark Arcann scenes with this particular interpretation in mind(that he learned some sort of lesson and wants to change, just without siding with the person who killed Senya) and there is nothing in the game to contradict is, so I will say it’s a viable headcanon, but it’s still headcanon. All we know for sure if that he is largely the KOTFE Arcann. I honestly really love the short non redemption arc in KOTET they give him if you choose to kill him, it shows that not everyone who can be redeemed should. And every time I think about how he bragged about being the master of his own fate, the more poetic it becomes that his fate was to have his execution broadcast for the whole galaxy to watch, the justice for countless people he harmed while he dies on his knees and has completely failed all of his goals.

His regret and desire to change comes from being subjected to a force ritual. There couldn’t have been many days passing between KOTET 1 and 6(since they all follow directly from one another as a plot thread), so it’s not like he had some long time to reflect. Even if he did, this being shown off-screen is unsatisfying and unreliastic. When he comes back, he is an entirely different person. He doesn’t care for power anymore, he is very kind and compassionate, apologetic, and shows zero signs of rage. He never struggles with it either, all of his words about it are superficial. he says he “fears that he becomes his old self” but we never see him lapse into the person he was, even for a moment, the show don’t tell principle is completely messed up here.

He just undergoes a complete 180 switch and no one in the Alliance says a word besides some very mild comments from Lana and Theron. Not Koth? Not Aric? Not the Star fortress companions that had to endure mini Death Stars on top of their home worlds? It’s ridiculous. The fact of the matter is that Arcann never ever shows remorse for anything but killing Thexan unless he’s actively brainwashed by Voss. And yeah, similar rituals were performed to some PCs in Vanilla, but they never forced them to have a complete personality switch. They served to cure actual tangible force diseases like Inquisitor’s mind being cleared of force ghosts. They never cured the entire personality and made people into completely different people. I find it very ironic that in KOTET trailer, they show force rituals being done on Vaylin as something that makes her turn evil and to the darkness. The do exact same thing with Arcann. We don’t even know if he was willing to do it, he was unconscious and Senya warns us that he will turn against us all if the ritual doesn’t happen. Vaylin never has anything like this done on her, the Holocron only frees her from direct mind control and Jarak procedure frees her from the command phrase, there is nothing that’s done to undo the force rituals or the damage that was done to her mind, it’s simply not attempted.

TLDR: Arcann’s actions and character after dies ex ritual is meaningless, he might as well be some Voss spirit they summoned to possess him.

4. Conclusion

As to whether the question of “does Vaylin deserve a second chance?”, I’m honestly not sure. I’m torn between lessening her sentence because of the diminished responsibility and sending her in a psychiatric ward. She definitely commited enough atrocities and I can’t say killing her is evil, even if she supposedly changes her way. 95% of my character killed Senya and Arcann, whether LS or DS, and they would do the same to Vaylin because they’re not interested in buddying up with chaotic mass murderers.

But Vaylin certainly deserved better treatment from the game and is imo by far the most sympathetic member of the family. If they want her to be a tragic person that cannot be saved, then show other people making attempts. Show Senya saying the words she did in Echoes while Vaylin is still alive, show Arcann apologizing and admitting that he mistreated her, too, show the Outlander extend genuine sympathy to her instead of using her conditioning. Without it, the story falls apart, and in this case, it was not a good story

Unpopular opinion

But before we start, some warnings are on the way.

Don’t waste your time on this post if you are a big fan of Vaylin. Just scroll.

I’m not kidding. I know there are a lot of people who wants to have a redemption arc for Vaylin, and this post is more likely gonna make these people angry at me, and none of us want this, so just scroll. 

It’s not Vaylin hate post though. I like her, and I don’t want to spread hate any more than there are already. If anything, Vaylin deserves redemption no less than Arcann or anyone else. Yet I have some “but” about it, and this is there you better scroll.

If anything, you are free to hate and unfollow me. Just do not misunderstand me. That’s the only thing I ask.

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