#my problem is i need a villain but i dont like villains??? i like stories where people are nice but thats boring

[guckies]

I don’t have many hopes for any lore conflicts especially with the soulfire members considering all the relationship conflicts were just seemingly thrown out the window as soon as they got back to quesadilla

[mewtwoandme]

I was hoping this would all blow over, but since it's continuing to happen, now with people attacking other artists of the commewnity. I'm putting out my two fucking cents! Cause this whole art/character theft and pointing fingers, who stole what from who bullshit it driving me up the fucking wall!!

Long story short, it started with me and one other blog whose name I won't mention publicly. Despite the horrible light they tried to paint me in, I don't want anyone going to this person and ganging up on them. This person had some serious bitterness towards more "popular" artists and claimed that I've made characters similar to theirs and once used a pose they apparently used before (which was a very common pose, considering it was a reference from the game version of mega Y). Since then, they had desperately tried to conjure up evidence, narrowing down to the most miniscule detail how I've been stealing from them when I hadn't even known their blog existed until I was forcefully thrown into that unnecessary drama with the unhinged call-out posts they've made. With this being said, I'd like to point out that they never came to me or addressed this concern with me in the first place. They had every opportunity to privately DM me if they had suspected I was "stealing," but no, simply because they already made up their mind that I was a thief, that was a good enough reason to lack common fucking sense and decency, making what should have been a private issue public, going on to villainize and dehumanize me. And apparently, it hasn't stopped with me either, cause recently I've been seeing other artists in the community having to deal with this where people are being white knights on high horses, pointing fingers on how one artist's mewtwo looks "the same" if not "totally identical" as another artist's mewtwo. I refuse to believe it's a coincidence. But what makes me disgusted is that since TC's post, apparently it's had the opposite effect on some people and they're hopping on this blame bandwagon like it's some damn media trend!!!

This is NOT okay! Nothing about this kind of behavior is funny! It's upsetting to all of us. We dont need you causing problems where there isn't any, thinking you're doing us a favor! The majority of us are adults for gods sake! We are old enough where we don't need other people coming to us being tattle tails saying this person did this and that. That's what little children do! If you suspect any form of theft, I think I speak for ALL creators in this commewnity that we'd prefer you DM us privately saying something like "Hey, I think this person is copying you, might wanna look into it." And if possible, provide a link to the art in question, for which we would kindly thank you for making us aware and we'll handle it ourselves from there. Just a brief, yet SIMPLE interaction...that's all we ask!!! Don't even come at me with "Well, it's scary attempting to talk to an artist that's well known." Or dare I say ~pOpUlAr~ If you claim that taking the first step to send me a quick DM makes you nervous, yet you have no problem making public call outs in posts or asks, belittling and degrading what could actually be innocent artists doing nothing wrong, literally leaving yourself open to all kinds of comments and opinions from all kinds of people....I'm sorry but your anxiety isn't as bad as you say it is then, if being rude and ignorant in a public post/ask is easier for you. If you come to us, shaming someone else who 9/10 probably isn't doing anything wrong, thinking you'll be in our good graces for doing so, sorry, you're not going to be told, "Good job!" with a pat on the back and given a lollipop! You're just being an asshole.

Quick reality check for everyone who's made it this far before I end this train wreck of a rant:

People can have similar ideas that coincide with one another! There's only so much you can do when a whole community is focused around drawing the same character! We mainly draw mewtwos and mews, you're bound to find a plethora of similar colors, patterns, and designs because of it! Creativity only goes so far when trying to stay true to a character and not stray too far. It's not a crime to take inspiration from other artists' characters, we actually encourage this! It makes us feel good that you liked something we've done and you want to incorporate it into your own designs! It makes us happy that we inspired you! The line is crossed when someone does a literal copy/paste of a character down to the exact detail, and they call it their own original creation. That my friends is what stealing actually is!

[rollforgaslight]

I know kipper cunt is a fictional character but I want y'all to keep something in mind:

fantasy high specifically is a coming of age story that has acknowledged the teen villains are children at the end of the day and should not be written off as evil and nothing else.

romanticizing trauma is a very complicated issue and indicative of deeper psychological problems. Hell, the bad kids only found out she felt this way because they read a file she thought would remain UNSEEN by her peers. As far as we know she has only told Jawbone about this. This is a young girl that is reported to have anger issues before she even went to the mountains of chaos so we can clearly see she isn't well or in a good headspace.

maybe I feel so strongly about this because I in my past romanticized other peoples trauma and I know what its like to be in that mindset. and looking back I can see why I felt that way. I had a complicated life like everyone else but because my life was good on paper I thought I needed something worse to happen to me so my psychological and emotional issues would be valid. I thought I wasn't valid in having issues because in theory I shouldn't have a reason to. I know thats a shitty thing to do which is why I never told anyone about it. its a very frustrating experience to have because you know its wrong but for the life of you, you cannot figure out why you desperately want something bad to happen to you.

I also wanna say this is an experience that is different from Dream Tannaka. Dream is a caricature of this issue but what Dreams character does not cover is how it truly feels to have this issue. you feel like a fucking asshole because you know at the end of the day you dont truly want someone else's trauma but you can't help but crave it for some reason. and you feel like you can't tell anyone about it because you know it will make you look like an asshole. Its very similar to the experience of having taboo intrusive thoughts that horrify you.

I will reiterate that I know kipperlilly is a fictional character but this show is no stranger to discussing complicated topics--especially through villains. ESPECIALLY child villains.

[ganondoodle]

random thought about the memory system

a big difference between why botws memories worked so well but totks didnt is mainly bc in botw, there wasnt that much plot, you kinda knew what was up by the time you left the tutorial, all memories serve you just as well as link, sending you around a hyrule you dont know, the few scenes of main characters do a good job of giving you an idea of who they are, but the majority is focused on zelda and link, why she acted to cold to him at first and later became friends, the characterization being not jsut in memories but also in how people remember them, their diary etc, when you meet their ghosts theres a familiarity to how they talk to you, they know and care about you, its like giving you late friend one last visit; getting memories out of order really doesnt hurt that characterization and overall it really just serves to flesh out the past and what made this world the way you see it now but mainly it gives you characters

in totk, its ... the main plot driving thing, you are here for the story now more than the world bc you know the world already, besides the sages stuff (that isnt much either besides some legends that apprently were always a thing but never popped up until now), its basically the entire plot and it all hinges on it, its trying to be both plot and character introduction AND characterization, which it simply cant do; we already know zelda and what shes like, but its like the game itself doesnt know what to do with her now, she doesnt do anything, she stands around listenign to strangers talk, whenever she says anything shes dismissed or it simply doesnt matter, the most she does is go around to faceless and nameless sages of old we dont know nor care about in a damn near copy paste scene begging them to help link of the far future somehow even tho they really have no reason to and then she swallows a stone bc she has literally no other choice; fleshing out the past doesnt work either bc this past is so far removed from anything of the world and people you know that theres simply no meaningful connection to make you really care, there are no characters alive that knew the people of old ...except mineru and rauru are still there, but then dont tell you shit, theres so much you dont know about them, their world or history and they dont tell you anything bc *gestures vaguely* ?? even ganondorf only says some standard villain stuff that tells us pretty much nothing about him nor rauru, no one in your time asking you who the hell that ghost powered robot is? no she sits in her robot somewhere deep underground (how does she even get out of there at the end, she needed you to drive her around to her own temple after all) given how straight up obsessed hyrules entire population is with sonau stuff they sure dont do anything with a literal person from that time and then at the end she jsut goes poof, welp, guess we will never, sure, fine keep your secrects; getting the memories out of order destroys literally any kind of story that was there, like it wasnt predicatble from like memory 3 to where it would go (predicable can be good but in this case its boring as hell) anyway

.. theres more i could talk about but this is already longer than intended and i want to do other things but this with my evening, you probably heard most of my problems with this game in my rants by now anyway

[pruneunfair]

Rating female leads in manhwa.

Navier

6/10, I absolutely hate her writting and has devolved into a mary sue who only reacts to everything around her while her mass of supporters never shut up about great she is. Her synopsis claiming her as someone who loves all her subjects gets contradicted when its shown she doesnt really care about the slaves.

BUT in season 1 she wasn't bad, I liked her resolve and it was when she actually cared for her people, I feel like if we got to see a clear backstory beyond "she wasn't allowed outside when she studied to be empress" I would understand her total apathy more.

Ariande

7/10, I adore villains, especially villainous protagonists and at first I liked the idea she wouldn't be any better than her family but still had a soft spot for Arabella, she loses a few points because it turns out she's excused for killing people before in the name of "love" and is viewed as someone who can do no wrong.

Adelaide

10/10, she's like Navier but better, she has more noticeable flaws and while she is a kick ass warrior during the tower arcs she still is human and can't always take it alone without consequences, she acknowledges Diane's struggles and makes an effort not to be her enemy and is proof that you dont need to make FL overpowered gods to be strong women. A beautifully made FL in a underrated story

Robellia

1/10, She doesn't divorce her husband despite the title literally being "I will divorce my tyrant husband." But that's more of a problem in most other manhwa. She's too much of a perfect epic goddess for me and most of all she does the whole "buying all the slaves but giving them a home." to make her look even better, what is with manhwa and inserting slavery for no other reason other than to make the FL look better?

Arianna

0/10, there is nothing good about her. Other than being a mary sue and a personality that only revolves around the latest sexy man, she legit forces another guy to join her haram by threatening diplomatic war on his kingdom and bodyshames her fiance but all of a sudden wants him more than ever when he loses weight, it took a random chick being inserted with a 🍇ist persona to make her look "better."

Yerenica

6/10, in any other story, this girl would've been despised by the fandom for being a homewreaker/pick me. She gives me so much second hand embarrassment but she's not terrible, I actually really like her design too. Not a fan of the kidnapper-hostage relationship she and the ML have though.

Pereshati

10/10, the best one here. She feels so much more human than the others on this list, she's got flaws, a relationship with the ML Therdeo that has both realistic progression, blunders, but overall healthy love, she also has relationships outside of her husband which I really love, I actually get scared for her when shes in danger instead of the usual "oh great, heres the typical kidnapping trope", a great motherly FL

Hestia

5/10 I will be easy on her since I just started reading my derelict favorite but I've only heard bad things about it through spoilers so I don't have much hope, also girl, please acknowledge that just because your favorite character did it for love doesn't mean he's absolved for murdering 2 people, thank you

Edith

9/10, my 3rd favorite on this list. You do not know how happy I was when instead of immediately viewing Rhyse as a rival to defeat, she was actually nice to her and the chapters of them were so sweet, she even acknowledges that it isn't anyone's fault for acting out but the author who is pulling the strings.

Layla

8/10, I feel so bad for this poor girl. For some reason I noticed on reddit and tiktok that she's getting hate for not standing up to herself or just not being the usual "girlboss" protagonist, did it not occur that she cant do much to a duke!? Layla deserves so much better and she needs to be far away from Matthias, I don't care if it's "dark romance" he is torturing her for his own pleasure.

[whywoulditho]

I'm glad, that DC writers are changing constantly and therefore the characters are protected from the Bat-family. The Bats are the cancer of DC comics. There wouln't be any independant characters anymore if they could gez their grubby hands on the other DC families

That's another way to look at it.. I agree that they're trying a bit too hard to connect every character to the bats' storyline. so you might have a point there. maybe it would create more bad than good if they let batfam authors interfere with the other storylines... but i still wouldn't call the bats the cancer of DC. I think if you took the bats out of DC, it would lose like half of its charm and quality.

with all that being said though, i still think the biggest problem of DC romances (or comic book romance in general) lies in each run having separate authors. think about why harley x ivy worked. it's because both of those characters already existed before they got together. both of them were loved villains and later anti-heroes, they both have their own story, their own past and their own redemption arcs. they're both INTERESTING. and when DC made the risky choice of making them a couple, it worked.

i'm not saying it would work with any other characters, or that they should make all their major characters date each other. but if you want to explore romance in your comics you have to give the readers an actual relationship, involving two realistically written and interesting people. not a major character and their accessory love interest. that's my issue with tim x bernard, or jon x jay. no one will get attached to, or even invested in, these relationships because we don't know anything about the love interests. they're just some random people. even if you try to give them personalities they will still not have a story outside of their relationship with the major character. bernard and jay were only created so tim and jon would have someone to kiss. it's hard to care about them, and therefore their relationship. they're just boring romance side plots.

you can introduce a character with the sole purpose of making them a couple with one of your major characters and still make it work, like batman and catwoman. you can create chemistry with a new character just as well as you can with already existing ones. but i think we need more of the first option. less last minute love interests and more people falling in love. i think what makes DC special is that they show us so many different versions of their major characters, we get to see them grow and change (take notes, marvel) so it wouldn't be off-brand to see already existing major characters, like superboy and robin, ending up together. not when it's DC. to be honest i think it would be like super iconic of them to do that. and i also think that DC fans would much rather have their favorite characters end up with the kind of person they went through hell and back with instead of like, a random citizen. tim and kon have so many parallels. they're both people who didn't have to be heroes at all, but still chose to do it. they both struggle with carrying a mantle too big and the fact that they were not chosen for it makes them even more insecure. they also have a past together, they're close friends, they would take a bullet for each other. so much potential. dont even get me started on damian and jon. those two are like, literal mirrors of their fathers. they have huge legacies on their shoulders and they're like quite literally the only people that could understand one another. again, so. much. potential. i'm not saying they have to be together, but if DC was gonna write romance for these characters I wish it could have been with each other.

[dkmbookworm]

Oh my god so this topic exactly is why I dont see diomedes fitting in with epic. Like im a HUGE fan of him (and odypendio) and I could see him being in Ithaca in some post-canon even in the epic canon but he is just not A Character in Epic to be encluded in ody's time in the trojan war as as close as he is in the source material yaknow

Oh definitely. I think it’s fun when I see works include diomedes in a future/post-canon fic or comic. But Jorge is trying to keep his story self/contained to the odyssey itself because it creates a clearer storyline to work with

Most people have read the odyssey in hs and have a decent understanding of its plot, but by composition the Illiad wasn’t covered as much outside of notes (at least in my school’s case). He already has to juggle a lot of characters and storylines and musical themes and motifs, so this just makes it easier for him as an indie creator + he is retelling his story to get the theme he wants across most.

It’s why he has been explicitly clear that epic cannot be supplemental material over reading the odyssey. You will fail, he took creative liberties for his retelling. To say the least about translating a character for a modern audience within the setting itself

Just think of how much it takes in terms of the set up to have a character who opens the story with killing a baby. And still walk out of it sympathetic after that. We have an entire trope around “wouldn’t hurt a child” for villain character and Odysseus explicitly goes against this. Because we have the set up that he is being faced with trolley problems throughout his journey “the blood on your hands is something you won’t lose, all you can choose is whose”. Violence is inescapable in this world and you have to make a decision about whose blood is going to be spilt, your own or someone else’s.

But this kind of falls apart if you consider the original illiad as canon to this and see what ody was during the actual war. He was already ruthless, downright cruel at times. And this has been memed on plenty in cases where diomedes comes back into the story to recount what they did together in the war. If the illiad was adapted, any idea of what happens specifically has to come from Jorge as this is his version of Odysseus and would need to fit into his storyline/character progression for him.

The death of Iphigenia, abandoning Philoctetes, enslaving Hecuba, etc. All these things contradict actions/decisions Odysseus takes in the story and it makes sense to leave them out in this context.

[beesmygod]

today is webcomics day. i am bea and i make "A Ghost Story" - part 1: pre-gaming

webcomic day is a yearly celebration of the art form concocted by the screentones podcast team as a way for people to see how the sausage gets made. my webcomic "a ghost story" has been running for over 10 years, and yet i still don't think i can say i am good at making a webcomic. regardless, the comic is getting made because otherwise i become very, very sick in the head. today i would like to share with you the process of making a page of "A Ghost Story" from start to finish. either this demystifies the process or will make you think im so cool and strong for doing this 2x a week. instead of reblogging this one post until it gets very long, i will be posting individual updates that i will then compile and post on my personal website. block the tags now if you HATE comics and want them to EXPLODE.

if you have any questions, even things like "what the fuck are you even talking about" feel free to ask. i want to feel confident in what i make again and i think sometimes interrogation from an outside source is really

---

that said, let's get started. wait just kidding i want a cup of coffee first, hold on.

ok now im ready. i have a big glass of water. i have coffee. i have a headset for the parts of work that don't involve typing words. i can't type words and listen to some streamer babble in my ear at the same time, so it has to be instrumental music or nothing. i just took my meds so they should kick in after about 30 mins. i woke up late today, which is weird and annoying. but maybe i can work late instead.

first off, i need to know where i'm going beyond this one page. if i dont know where im going with something, then i usually create something that sucks that i have to deal with later. hold on my internet died, i have to reset the router. ok, anyway.

what's rattling around in my brain is that not only do i have to deal with maxine's current predicament, i am also dealing with multiple plot elements i need to wrap back around to from the previous chapter. luckily, im about to put maxine down for a nap, which means i can get back to those other elements:

i need to finish the exposition from the three ankou characters for this story arc establishing their motivations as the oppositional force in the story. the "villain" is not these three specifically, but their boss. they need to have a loose understanding of what's going on in order to communicate this to the audience. god this started turning into a huge ass paragraph so i'll just keep it short there.

we've jumped back to before jack's horrible day from the first chapter of this storyline so we have to make our way back toward that and then lapping it, which means wrapping up his various open threads like:

feeding victoria and learning something new about her

finding out alice is a very exceptional employee who is getting many awards

watching valdo call lily while interrupting her during something personal to ask her for help with maxine's situation.

jack meeting with valdo and lily the day after they first met so jack can just tell them straight up that lily has 4 sisters she doesnt know about.

help that girl with her poltergeist problem. remember that. i've had jokes for this rattling in my head for like 4 years. im going insane.

and also the fucking tilberi!!! that has a point its going somewhere!!! there's a larger menace here!!!

other things to set up the climax of this storyline. sexual tensions, hints at larger emotional problems not immediately evident to the reader

lots of moving parts. and i feel like im moving in slow motion to get to them. i can see them all weaving together in my head, its the process of putting that onto paper that's proving difficult.

ok that took an hour starting and stopping. -_- let me write the next part as i keep brainstorming on how to approach this page. taking a "rubber duck" approach to this might help. heres an image from the last page i worked on (i have a 5 page buffer rn so the site does not match the finished pages) to get us semi-situated.

also because images will help people understand what skill level we're working with here. i need to be able to communicate an idea to the audience; if the art also looks good on top of that, then that's just an added bonus. but the ability to communicate my ideas is sometimes hampered by my lack of artistic skill or comics language ineptitude. like those speech bubbles kind of fucking suck but at a certain point you have to just hit print on what you're working on in order to keep your already glacial pace.

webcomics is a tightrope act where you're also spinning 4 plates at once. the trick is to keep the audience from realizing how many actually fall or how wobbly they all are. the act sucks but technically its not a failure.

[descendantsramblings]

First of all, take your time with the storys (god i love your writing style, its not rushed and not too cheesy or out of character) And cause my Brain is a full on simp for Morgie and the Boy is just a little good one that wants to fit in, i have another idea

Maybe a story based on the Deleted scene pics of Him sleeping(?) alone in the Hideout from the lagoon in this chair(?) and of him finding the book

-

in the whole thing morgie and reader have this Tension like always and are pretty close (they are in love but both dont know how to make the first step and they know it wouldnt really be good news for uliana which scares morgie off)

Male!reader is another villain kid that is also in Ulianas crew but mostly in the background, he didnt go to the office to steal the cookbook nor did he look out for merlin with morgie (maybe reader is even secretly slightly friends with bridget who knows)

Morgie went to find the cookbook in chloe's and red's room after finding out what happend to uliana and the crew, he hesitates to open it and goes back to the Hideout in the lagoon where he starts to panick a little cause his friends are frozen, he is all alone and it all depends on him now.

On one side he wants to impress uliana and the others and be a good villain like his Mom (cause he has a reputation to hold up and he has mommy issues lmao) but on the other hand he doesnt think that Bridget deserves it and he doesnt wants to really be like his mom, morgie also opens the book which also proves that he is good in his heart

Reader comes into the hideout to see morgie having a complete life crisis and he tries to comfort him, Reader wants Morgie to leave the villain group cause he just isnt a villain and a good soul at heart but Morgie thinks that this will just cause more problems so he sticks with this life now (god bless him)

Morgie ends up not doing the prank and telling Uliana later after she is unfrozen that he just didnt find the cookbook and he couldnt pull through with the pranks and that he and Reader couldnt think of anything just as cruel for Bridget before castlecoming but they totally did still try to.make bridgets day bad (they didnt xD)

You’re so sweet, thank you so much. I really do try, end up reading it like 4 times before I post it and find something I wish I changed a day later. And I love the concept of a secretly good VK being with Morgie (who is also secretly good idc what Disney has to say on the matter)!! I’m so excited about this one

True to Heart

Morgie le Fay X Reader

Pronouns used: He/him/his

Summary: When faced with something that knows the truest part of your heart, it’s bound to see right through you.

Warnings: Uliana sucks, they're very touchy but really this is just fluff with some panicking. Death mention but it’s sorta playful

Word count: 2K

   It had been hours since he heard from Uliana. Surely the sea witch should have come by his room by now , yelling at him about how he needed to be ready for their plan. Convinced he’d do it at the drop of a hat to be part of her main circle. She was a fool of course, that he believed with his whole heart, she was ridiculous to believe he’d hurt Bridget. It would be like asking him to hurt Hades. They weren’t close but he had an obvious care for them, that was easy to see. Uliana was an idiot to believe he would even consider letting go of that part of himself. There were few parts of his morals he could actually hold in the position he’d put himself in. He’d be keeping one, (Y/n) was not the type of guy to betray anyone. Despite that though, he was on his way to go find the dreadful girl and her friends, skipping across the rocks of the black lagoon. Regardless of who he wanted to be, villainy ran in his blood, he had no other options but to be on their beck and call. Well, he assumes he did have one other option, but the idea of being alone by choice wasn’t exactly one that made his chest all warm and fuzzy. And to leave certain people in the crew would kill him. 

    “Oh what did I do?” The familiar voice panicked, speaking to himself as he paced the length of the hide out. “Why did I take that? What do I do with it? Why did I?” Morgie is speaking faster than he can make sense, repeatedly looking over at some old book settled on the table. (Y/n) slinks in, carefully making his way up to the boy. Not that he noticed the presence of his, well he can’t actually tell you what Morgie considers him. Arms outstretched, grabbing his biceps from behind, “Morgz, where are your friends? I thought Ulilana would’ve come by to snatch me up by now.” Hazel eyes are panicked and wild, turning and staring into the most comforting face he’s ever seen. “I-” he takes a deep breath, stepping closer for his friend to hold him closer, “I failed at being a good watch and now they’re all frozen and I don’t know what to do because it’s my fault and I don’t want to do this alone.” 

    His right hand slides up Morgie’s arm, resting on his shoulder as his left hand cups his cheek. “Morgie, I will never let you be alone. Now, tell me what we’re doing.” He watches Morgie’s eyes close, rubbing the boy’s cheek with his thumb lovingly. “I can’t ask that of you,” he breathes forcing his eyes open as he pulls away from the boy’s hand, “If pranking Bridget falls on me it has to fall on just me. I know you like her and I couldn’t make you do something like that. It would ruin your chances.” (Y/n) laughs, tapping Morgie’s cheek with his hand and letting go to look at the book on the table, “Morgz, Bridget is a lovely friend but I do not like her. Not like that. Now,” he drags a finger over the cover of the old book, “Is this the book that Uliana wanted?” He pauses, turning around. His back straightens in shock, realizing just how close Morgie had gotten, he could feel the sorcerer’s breath on his face. He was really close, far too close. 

    “Did you say Uliana was frozen?” “They all are,” he steps back ever so slightly, as if he realized how close he’d gotten all of a sudden, “I heard those two girls talking about it. They said there was a spell on the book that keeps people with evil in their heart from being able to use it. Something like that and they opened it and now,” he shakes his head. “Now they’re all frozen,” (Y/n) bites his hand to hold back a laugh, “They didn’t research the book before they went to get it?” He turns back to the book, “So what are you planning to do with it?” Morgie’s hands settle on either side of him, chest pinned to the boy’s back with his breath fanning over (Y/n)’s exposed neck.  

    “I mean, I need to do the prank don’t I? Uliana is going to be fuming if I don’t and it would make my mom happy. Or at least I hope it would. So I need to do the prank, right?” He bites his lips, eyes fluttering closed as he relishes in the closeness. They’d never act like this in the hideout if Uliana had the chance to see them. she had her qualms when it came to them both -one more than the other- no reason to make it worse. “So, you want to prank an innocent girl so that two women who can’t even see you would be proud of you?” He shakes his head, “It’s not that I want to prank her. I just, I need someone to be proud of me. You can understand that, can’t you?” “Morgz,” he shakes his head, turning around and putting them nearly nose to nose. He can hear someone take in a sharp breath, Morgie seeming to hold the gasp in as he stares at his friend. He was almost sure the sound had been him. “You do not need to make Uliana and your mother happy all the time. What would make you happy?” He shakes his head, the motion making their noses brush up against each other. “You know it’s not that simple.” 

    “Okay, then open your magic little book, serpent boy.” He lets out a sound that (Y/n) thinks is supposed to be a laugh. “I can’t, villains can’t open the book. That’s literally how we got in this situation.” He nods, grabbing Morgie’s face in a way that would make most people raise their brows. The display was a touch two cozy for the two boys to just be friends. “Open the book. If you freeze then I will unfreeze you and help with the prank.” He raises a brow, eyes drinking in his best friend’s face, “And if I don’t?” “How about we focus on if you do first, huh?” Morgie lets go of him, stepping to the side so he can look at the book. “What if,” he takes a breath, looking over at his friend’s gentle face, “What if you can’t turn me back?” His hand reaches out, smoothing a strand of Morgie’s hair into place, “Well, then I will fight tooth and nail until I can. I can’t be without you.” He picks up the book with slow shaking hands, eyes flickering back over to the other boy. “I really think you should open this. I mean, we know that you could open it and be just fine. You’re so,” he looks the boy over, licking his lips, “You.” 

    “Morgz, open the book. I promise you, we’ll be okay.” Morgie takes a deep breath, bracing himself for the worst as the cover of the book gives way to his hand. Sliding open without so much as a shine of a spell coming off of it. His eyes flicker open, slowly looking over the page before looking up to his friend. “I didn’t freeze.” A smile comes across his face, walking over to Morgie’s shell chair and falling into it. “You knew that,” he turns to watch as he speaks. “You knew I would be okay.” (Y/n) looks up at him from his seat, smiling at Morgie, “Of course I did, I know you. You might be a le Fay but you’re also,” he pauses, shaking his head, “You’re you. There’s no need to be Morgie le Fay right now. You can just be, Morgie.” 

    He shakes his head, walking over to his friend and falling to sit between his legs, “I can just be Morgz.”  Without so much as a second of hesitation (Y/n) wraps his arms around Morgie’s waist, lightly pulling him back to lay down on top of him. There’s no hesitation on the other boy’s end either, the sorcerer melting into his arms, his head lulling back to rest on his friend’s shoulder. The two boys become a tangle, the tip of his nose brushing against (Y/n)’s cheek bone as he gets wrapped into his arms. A grossly adoring and gentle display that the other boys of the group would never give into. Words can’t explain how happy he is for the curse on that stupid book. “What am I supposed to do now? I mean, if I’m not evil what am I doing with the villains?” (Y/n)’s hand comes up to scratch at the boy’s scalp as he speaks, Morgie letting out a whine at the contact.

    “That’s a great question, what are you doing with the villains? You and I both know that you deserve better than this.” Each of the other boy’s words fan across his cheek and lips as he speaks, the air of it tickling his cheek,  “You know why.” He was so close, how had he let himself pull the other boy so close? His mind was in overdrive, doing everything he could to think about something, anything, other than the closeness. “You know you don’t have to be her mini me, right? You don’t have to be here just because of her.” He scoffs, nuzzling further against (Y/n)’s cheek, “Why are you with us then? Everyone knows you’re nothing like your dad.” A hum follows the words, stroking the boy’s hair instead of responding. “I mean realistically, Hades and I are the only ones you hang out with one on one. And I think everyone knows you’re not a fan of Maleficent. But you’re still lumped in with us. What’s the point of it?” “You,” he has his eyes closed as he says it, bracing for whatever the response would be. 

      Morgie stills, (Y/n) honestly hadn’t noticed he was still nuzzling against him until he stopped it. Grip loosening so the boy could get up and leave him. But he doesn’t, he can feel Morgie’s eyes burning into the side of his face. “Look at me.” “What?” “Look at me,” he grabs the boy’ chin, tilting him over to look at him, “Open your eyes.” “I’m okay actually.” “Please,” he whines it, cupping the boy’s face. And they both know there’s no way (Y/n) ignores that tone in his voice. Eyes slowly opening. “You’re stuck here because of me?” “I want to be stuck with you.” 

  Morgie sits up, looking over at the book with a sigh, “How are we supposed to get that thing back into Merlin’s office?” (Y/n) shoots up, looking at the boy with bewilderment in his eyes, “What?” Morgie lets out the shell of a laugh, turning to him, “Well, if you’re stuck with them because of me, then while they’re frozen, we can do things your way.” He looks at the sorcerer with the softest eyes, lip caught between his teeth in hopes of stopping the grin that begged to stretch across his face. “You’re not gonna prank her?” He turns, pointing at the other boy, “We’re not. We are however going to have to work together to figure out how to lie to Uliana though. Because we are so, so dead if we don’t figure this out.” “Morgie le Fay! I am so proud of you!” He laughs, pulling him into his lips. It’s soft, short, barely even a kiss but he relished in it all the same. Morgie was kissing him, he got to kiss him. Whatever was set to happen to them didn’t matter, he could roll with the punches. For a while, at least for the next day, the two not-so-villainous Villain kids could live true to their hearts. That could be enough, for now it would be enough.

“So uh,” (Y/n) pulls back nervously, wiping his bottom lip with his thumb, “Since we already have the tickets to castle coming do you want to“ “Please.”

[yellowbluemoonshine]

I just can't wrap my head around the narrative purpose of Nina. Her characterisation was lacking, she didn't leave any memorable impression I even forgot what she was about other than a leverage for Johan or a refuge in a way.

Her motives were not really mapped out well I feel like the author could've expanded on that more. It overall left a bad taste in my mouth.

What do you think?

About Nina;

I agree with you. I read a lot of Nina metas and i understand what she was supposed to symoblize (Nina; human, Tenma; God, Johan; Devil) but i think Tenma fits the role of human anyway and it doesnt work in Nina's case because she is not some random victim whom Johan killed her parents. She is her brother so her forgiving him at the end (especially when she already forgave other villains) doesnt work out as 'act of love'.

So the reason I think she isnt much memorable to you, thats because she is too similar to Tenma during the series.

They are good people who helps others

They investigate Johan separately but somehow at the same time.

They both project their inner monster on Johan so they think killing him will solve everything

Both use guns

Their interaction with Dieter is same

Everyone loves them

They are the only people Johan cares about and only people he lets them live Though Nina is different, her personality is more expressive and extrovert but this side of Nina is barely seen. Only at the beginning and ending. Tenma's character and ideals makes sense for his character because he is a doctor, also why he is obsessed with Johan but Nina as Johans sister, she couldve been different. More personal, more obsessive.

This is the problem with writing "good people". Her place in story is also mess and kinda replacable....yes, even though she is Johans sister. When i said replacable, i mean a lot of scenes were just there. Even if she wasnt there, nothing would change.

After not being able to meet her, Johan never go after her. He is more obsessed with Tenma, not Nina.

After escaping from her brother, she didnt need to meet Neonazis. Another character would stop the bomb and Tenma would see Johans writing anyway.

Her training from sugar man is just side character story, couldve been Tenma and same with meeting old cop. It couldve been Tenma who met the guy and nothing would change.

Even if Nina didnt come library, Tenma still wouldnt shot Johan. Her "dont shot him" scene with Nina has no build up and cringe. Johan didnt even interact with her at all in that scene and Nina also doesnt attempt to talk with her brother. She literally acts like random cop who suddenly appeared in the scene.

Other characters learnt "nameless monster" book, or 511 or the mansion etc on their own.

Nina remembering her flashbacks, or learning other book stories etc was important information only she knew but she never shared those informations with other characters. Its almost as its just written for audience to learn, to understand Johan.

Her interaction with Johan at broken house, that was meaningfull. That was only them after all but that scene didnt change anything for Johans plans. Johan was already remembering his memories and planning his suicide anyway. Only usefull information is that Nina found out Johan will kill himself but neither Nina and Tenma cared that information enough to do something different. Then at the end everyone find a way to find Franz's town.

At the end, another usefull and important flashback we get with Nina. Only Dr Gilleun heard this but its not like he did anything about it. Then Nina ran to Johan and told him she forgave him. Of course. Of course, it is important but its not impactfull (for audience) if Nina can forgave other characters. And once again, this doesnt stop Johan.

And no, Tenma wouldnt shot Johan even Nina didnt come. Even Nina didnt tell him to save Johan later, he would still save Johan. Literally any other character could say that.

And at the end, Nina lives her life again just a normal girl. Tenma is the one who is with Johan and his words 'You had a name' is what saves Johan at the end.

I am not saying she isnt important character. She is but as character, she didnt change things much, even though she shouldve as main heroine. She shouldve played more role that affects things around her, especially her interaction with Johan. But it didnt.

We could maybe say the same thing for Tenma or other characters but not really. There is already a certain role Tenma symbolize, humanity, saving lifes and most other characters are just side characters. But thats the thing. Nina isnt meant to be side character. She was supposed to be main heroine but even characters like Lunge and Eva, even they mess up or dont do much, they are still more memorable because their invidiuality shows itself. They affect the storyline in their own way.

I think we shouldve seen her inviduality more rather than her just going after on her own. I mean, on her own way, different than Tenma. Most importantly, i wish we shouldve seen her love for her brother, her family (Fortners) but her connection with them, our connection with people shows us who we are. Maybe she shouldve traveled with Tenma, then their connection would makes sense. And definitely we shouldve seen more about the her connection with Johan and her memories as Anna and after remembering, it does affect her so she shouldve done something to affect things around her as Nina, as heroine but none of these happenned.

So i understand why she can be forgotten because we dont see much of her really. And thats a shame. I wish she has done more, and more on her own way, more different than Tenma, more personal because its her brother but she acts like they are strangers so well. I think she isnt well written.

[sweetandsourcookies]

while im all in for new dragon cookies just like the next person, i have my doubts about how longan could get implemented?

i would have to elaborate, so im willing to do. all the other crob dragons i would absolutely love to see, but with longan i have a big problem. first and foremost, in crob, we know that their plan pretty much involves fucking the universe up and rebuilding it to how they want it. that now is a very high stake goal. i think the story's villains would get oversatured a lot if longan was involved - considering we got not 1, not 2, but, counting all the beasts, SIX over-arching antagonists (beasts + dark enchantress). i dont take cookies of darkness into consideration for this matchup, simply because they are servants of dark enchantress, and while they are one of the main antagonists, they are not "overarching" bad, like dark enchantress or the beasts.

i absolutely also do know that crob and crk cookies can have different motivations and goals - like pitaya dragon cookie, whose stories are vastly different in both games, but there are still points in their character that do matchup in both of the games. throwing out a character's whole personality for a different game might not be the best thing to do.

so, to summarize, my point is that longan's plan would more likely just oversature and overblow the story - we already need to deal with dark enchantress. oh wait, now we gotta deal with the beasts. WAIT, NOW THE IVORY DRAGON? the stakes could be raised higher, but i feel like it would create an unitentional mess. i also cannot see the connection between DE, the beasts and longan - de and beasts are clear, the former wants to free the latter, but what about longan? their relationship chart with dark enchantress says well that their goals are contradicting, like longan wanting to wipe out all the cookies.

if deviss does implement longan, i think the best way would be either:

a) in a "new big evil has risen" fashion, when all evil is defeated and we get the sweet epilogue.

b) an unexpected threat that cookies of both sides could not see, so now they have to work together to defeat longan. this could lead to some awesome characterization, though.

id love to hear my followers thoughts and i encourage a nice discussion! just please be civil, correct me if i got anything wrong, and i hope to have a nice convo! :]

[seaweedbraens]

Honestly ricks new book has just inspired me to reread wcwsthwas again.

I'm convinced Rick doesn't remember who his characters are anymore.

ill be the first to admit my characters can also be ooc! i think ive also fallen into the 'annabeth as a mom friend' trap (though piper is usually annabeth's mom in my fic) and i do think i have a lot of work to do keeping my characterizations consistent.

but heres the crux of my problem, right: this isnt my job. im a girl in my twenties who works full time and writes for fun. my ao3 is my hobby, and the characters i write are not canon. thats why it KILLS ME that rick writes with such a loose pen. in this new book, ive seen at least 5 inconsistencies, and thats IGNORING the timeline one (because why are people acting like leo is alive???). he has changed....just core things about characters. like grover the vegetarian eating a bacon sandwich and clovis now being morpehus' son. lack of attention to the little details, imo, just shows a lack of care. and as @glove23 pointed out, it shows that he really doeant respect his readers. he's acting like we're idiots, like we arent going to notice the changes. and, at the risk of aounding like a scooby doo villain, HES GETTING AWAY WITH IT TOO!! twitter laps up everything he does. it infuriates me to a whole other level.

this man is retconning shit left and right, tweaking stories previous to suit whatever new one he's writiig at the moment, and it just comes off as disrespectful and sloppy. fic writers are doing better than him at just about everything at this point. im not even talking about ME. there are heaps of really incredible pjo authors who seem to understand and respect the source material far more than rick seems to these days. and thats a goddamn shame.

ive read snippets of the book - some parts are okay and some are passable but most feel...weird. i dont know if its just me, but even the percabeth felt off. i hate how percy calls himself dumb in, like, every second sentence. when did that become a thing? and WHY? i wouldnt be surprised if this was ghostwritten. tbh, i hope it is. like you said, it feels like rick doesnt know how to write his characters anymore :/ sucks but i feel like i need to add a disclaimer to every fic now: this author has read only the original pjo and hoo books and all characters are written based on the ones of those series.

ANYWAY THIS IS NOT WHAT U ASKED FOR I WENT ON A BIGASS TANGENT IM SORRY SHSKSKSJSKSK

sidenote: to the poor souls running the riordanverse wiki, GOOD LUCK

[ganondoodle]

one of the few zelda youtuber guys that seems to actually love totk made a video about it (i guess bc so many talked about why they dont like it) and while i didnt watch it i took a peek into the comments and of course its full of people going "LMAO people only dislike it bc it didnt validate their crazy theories!!" "its always the same when a new zelda comes out lol at first they hate it and then later its a classic haha idiots" "people who dont like it are just caught up in their nostalgia and cant accept anything new being introduced!!"

also thanking him for "speaking up" about loving the game ... which i find kinda mind boggling bc the internet is full of praise and 10/10s for it

i obviously dont want to villainize people that love totk but like .. these kinds of comments are so unecessarily judgemental? how dare someone NOT like an entry in the franchise and voice legit criticism, how dare someone not worship the game just bc it has zelda on it! CLEARLY they are just made delusional by their own fantasy and will realize later just how wrong they were! hah! those fools!

on my rants there were quite a few people who actually said they like the game but agree with alot of my views on it regardless, it is very flawed but i can also see that the good things outweigh the bad stuff for others, even if i legitimately hate it; but i also had to block multiple people bc they got so butthurt about me criticising it

and i dont think its 100% just an opinion thing either, totk, even when i disregard my personal feelings on the matter, has alot of problems, moreso than the other zeldas (each judged for how it was in their time) and in pretty much every part of the game too (story, lore, continuity, gameplay and rewards, UI-) and i think alot of it stems from its conception, they have never done a true direct sequel before and it came from a DLC idea, and it shows (though i still believe even coming from that you could have done something way better..... bc they also made botw, which seemed to prepare fertile ground for more storytelling that was all discarded for NO reason)

BUT that doesnt mean you cant like it anyway! there are some very horribly shitty games out there that are beloved by people anyway! and thats fine! i love ww and botw, both of which HAVE flaws too! and thats okay!

you dont need to be dismissive of any hint of criticism like that, there is no holy honor to defend, it just makes you look like a jerk

[joelletwo]

wrestling with the 4devas bitchslap again to convince myself its fine if graveyard wins the best ep tourney: it's not the other bloggers who are wrong, it's me

not a complete response to but definitely in conversation with and asking some of the same questions again as @reductionisms's 4devas essay, which tries to square gintoki's "life doesn't need to be fun, i just need you to live" being a series-sanctioned message he's given to villains as an arc-concluding moral continuously up until 4devas with it here being an incorrect worldview that needs to be (physically) corrected by shinpachi, the straightman tonal signpost of gintama

a conflict i have been perplexed by ever since i got to this line on my first watch a year or two ago, since i've seen this line before! all over fandom! as part of the general "dont [bottom text] kill yourself" motivational messaging of gintama that i love!

and, briefly, when i hit 4devas i was also in the middle of being really frustrated by the new arc pattern i was seeing crop up: i loved the villains-turned sympathetic-turned someone worth saving by gintoki tune of the first half of gintama, but it fell massively flat for me in Yoshiwara in Flames, where i was never convinced to be on housen's side but had to watch him get a heartwarming redemptive death at the side of the woman he abused anyways.

then shortly after i had the same exact experience in Red Spider with jiraia, and i thought, if this is what gintama is gonna do with its shitty dudes from now on im gonna quit the fucking show. and then shortly after that i met jirochou and saw him cut down otose the woman he loved (under a raining sky!!! the fucking sky motifs!!! the signpost im about to watch a dude be shittily violent to women and be expected to feel sorry for him about it) and saw too much red to really take in the rest of the arc level-headedly or care about anything in it lol.

so it was written off in my mind as the 'otose almost gets fridged' arc until i rewatched it this week. then i had to remember, oh yeah, there's a ton of political maneuvering fakeouts in this arc that i never actually squared back with how the plot presented itself prior to the reveals, so i'd still been thinking about the "fakeout" plot. then i read the manga version with all the "truths" in mind from the start, and finally i felt like i could understand what this arc is doing a little better.

(way) tldr (4.4k words. sorry): do i love this arc? eh. do i still hate it? eh. but it's doing stuff!

first, i was able to see an echo in all the "actually i was planning to betray you the whole time" "actually i was working to help you the whole time" plot beats of what sorachi does with the larger edo/universe story further into the back half of the manga. if i ever sound like i didnt enjoy or wasnt convinced by the execution of these "reveals," it's because i didnt and wasnt, lol. but it's fun that he had fun with them i guess.

the arc starts with pirako ingratiating herself into yorozuya, then having a classic "bump into you and pretend to be injured to extort you" encounter w her dad's gang. to resolve this without escalating into violence, gintoki... does it back to them, which is really funny. but thus the tone is set for the arc of: DISHONEST APPROACHES TO CONFLICT.

pirako isnt honest about her overall intentions the, like, seven different times that she "admits her real ones." kada plays at peacekeeper in the devas while being the ultimate person scheming to get the upper hand over everyone else in the end. (she's also secretly harusame, evil amanto outsider who acts as a unifying force for the kabukicho fighting itself to band together against and expel: sorachi's favorite move! the problem was never internal, it's the shadowy REAL antagonists who infiltrated us)

jirochou and otose are ultimately doing a pantomime of conflict to try to keep temperatures down and escalations from breaking out, so no one they care about has to get hurt. gintoki doesn't know this until the end, but he follows in their footsteps after his encounter with them in the graveyard: he plays at having given up to the rest of yorozuya so they'll leave and escape the coming kabukicho war, the same thing otose was trying with him. it fails both times. i'm really not sure why gintoki and otose thought it would work, honestly. they should know their kids are stubborn as hell.

but gintoki is in a bind because of the things he needs to protect, and all of his actions are primarily in service of that, to the detriment of how he'd prefer to act if he were less restricted. he is unsurprised and unoffended to hear saigou is only willing to warn them, not help them, because her son is in danger if she acts directly. all four devas are, seemingly, being mutually restrained this way, holding back even when blatantly manipulated to do so. the other constant of this arc: everyone is dishonest, and no one wants to risk losing what they have.

gintoki understands that! of course! he's had to make that calculus before, after all :)

and this arc is just one big cliff scene echo: the entire graveyard scene pushing gintoki to emotional regression because he thinks he's losing another parent figure, one he's just seen the Gintoki Figure of the arc cut down, no less (takasugi stolen valor when he goes berserk against him and only ends up uselessly bleeding out on the ground about it, honestly). otose goes into this willingly so gintoki can live. he accepts this decision because he values protecting her values (her kids living on) and is briefly broken by it (the story says, before giving him shinpachi to "put him back on track"). prior to the bitchslap, after saying he just wants them to live, even if it has to be without him, he says:

i dont have a good understanding of when we start getting reveals of gintoki's backstory versus foreshadowing because i went into gintama already knowing most of it, but definitely by the recent red spider where we get our first real look at (or really, first listen to) shouyou. but here we actually get some of what gintoki felt about it, which he keeps closely guarded even when the whole truth comes out: he's done his best to survive having lost, but it was so unbearable he can't face losing again.

(also, honorable mention backstory echo, the person calling him a brother sets his home on fire to drive him and his parent figure out of town. as i liveblogged: this one would really hurt gintoki if gintoki cared about anything oboro ever did!)

but with the shinpachi story-rerouting, they get the good end, keep everyone (otose, yorozuya, all of kabukicho, even pirako and her dad - everyone but kada) safe without having to sacrifice a single thing, even keep gintoki hopeful for this outcome. so, as goose points out, we are left to understand that there could have been a good end on the cliff, that something is different here than there, and, skipping a lot of math, that that is the people around gintoki.

which i do find really funny to imagine as a slam on takasugi and katsura. sorry you kids suck too much, your teacher dies bc u were cringefail. but lets look at it.

everyone is dishonest, no one wants to risk what they have: gintoki rallies himself to keep fighting but is determined to do it alone. kagura and shinpachi fight him on this; they can't leave because they don't want to lose their home, they can't let him fight alone because they don't want to lose him. they're just as restricted by what they have to keep safe, but their only option is to act where everyone else's is inaction. shinpachi says:

if i may skip over the bitchslap itself for now, gintoki does consent to let his allies fight with him after it. yorozuya stands alone against saigou, who's heavily demoralized but resigned, strongarmed into fighting them by the threat to her son. but on seeing their resolve to keep protecting their own precious home and family she says:

and, to skip straight to my thought, i think this is what turns the tides back in their favor. there are more twists and turns to the fight. pirako equates what binds saigou, which she herself equates to what binds the yorozuya, to what binds her:

(with an intentional distinction that she's willing to actively destroy the others', as opposed to their purely self defensive fighting, which is echoed at some point in her distinguishing gintoki from jirochou in the same way, that jirochou not only lives to protect like gintoki but is willing to destroy in the process. i don't find that part as interesting, but it's more fuel to the power of having something to protect as a driving force as an arc theme.)

so now all three stand on the same ground, absolutely unwilling to give up what they hold dear, but all their cards are on the table. they aren't dealing in 12 dimensions of tricksy defensive pre-emptive moves anymore. they know it wouldnt work, anyways, since they all know their drives to protect are the same and no one will be talked into backing down. now they can directly duke it out and let the winner be determined that way, on strength of will. even before the actual circumstances change, the fight somehow feels freer seeing how inevitable it is. and with everything out in the open, yorozuya can now protect each other and saigou's son, taking out one side of the conflict.

(and with everything out in the open, the ultimate 4devas villain can become the single person who continues to betray the others, kada, whose further machinations - with everything out in the open! - saigou (and later yorozuya) can choose to protect pirako from. everyone wins! because everything was out in the open! do you see where i'm going)

and so we come back to the question: gintoki is corrected, the arc is rerailed to the better outcome. so is the correction justified?

what does the correction accomplish outside of its moment? most convincingly to me of goose's presented options, i also think it's done as a thematic shift, a, okay, just live was a strategy that worked before but now doesn't suffice, so we need something more.

as to why this is needed now and not earlier or later...tldr bad planning <3 but like.

we have, prior to this, a consistent thrust of arcs where gintoki teaches people to lose. as well, while we meet the harusame and we visit space and we get the barest glimpses of takasugi's weird shadowy background moves there, largely we're dealing with kabukicho characters and kabukicho stories. we see or only hear about the shogun for short comedic moments only. we've largely dropped the series intro focus on things like the shinsengumi or hasegawa acting as foreign diplomats. it's a local series, a hometown series, a kabukicho and not even an edo at large series, a personal story about gintoki making personal connections with his personal experience as a flawed person with a flawed approach to life that has let him, chronic slacker, get by on the bare minimum.

at this moment, chapter 300, we have a slow trickle of gintoki backstory starting to come out to us. we've recently expanded the story focus to include yoshiwara, which gets a callout in this arc by kada to keep it relevant. we have an arc of sorachi testing out plot beats that he'll use again for the endgame, in all the political maneuvering and alliancing and betraying and shadowy outsider space governmenting, where he's also doing a lot of echoing of that backstory that only becomes clear later. so it's possible he's thinking about shifting gears and setting up for the eventual endgame, which means getting out of the episodic cycle so things can stick.

and after this arc, to my opinion and memory, we stop getting the classic gintama flavor sympathizable'd antagonists. a lot of the bigger arcs don't even have clear Big Shot antagonists anymore, being more about the shouyoucore theme of characters fighting against themselves, or if there is one they're always explicitly part of the Shadow Government now, a unified and more daunting force than someone they can win over with an inspiring gintoki interaction.

so 4devas does act as a turning point at least in some way. and it's not possible to say this definitively, since all gintama arcs are ultimately never going to be about gintoki or his friends Actually losing something instead of beating the odds, but it does feel like theres a different flavor to, say, dekobokko with its direct look at how chars lives could be different and better and they will still choose to keep struggling as themselves. and Kintama arc definitely doesn't feel like an early days arc, like it can only resolve the way it does with a gintoki who is now able to face his past and the possibility of losing again and again and again (now with, natch, his faith that yorozuya will by his side when he does).

why now, after 300 chapters of letting it sit ignored in the back of his brain working out perfectly fine except when it doesn't (the very reminder of shouyou in a fight making him go Demon Mode, which is like regular gintoki but worse at fighting, bc he is so unprepared to think about shouyou)? well i personally am in big favor of the "take a decade off" strategy for facing problems. it worked for me too. realistically watsonianly its nice to let things percolate in the brain and do some of the processing behind the scenes until its less immediately painful. and he's made many bonds over these 300 chapters, shown in this arc when the whole town rallies behind him, that are there to support him when he needs it now and weren't there before.

realistically doylistly eh. bad planning.

and so we come back to the question: gintoki is corrected, the series as a result is rerailed to a writing space where things can start changing (leave the episodic, as you guys say, sazae-san format). it's useful in the future. so is the correction justified in terms of what comes before it? was the correction needed?

thinking about the bitchslap leads to thinking about the cliff scene leads to (sorry kagura and katsura, you guys arent really relevant here) pitting shinpachi and takasugi against each other in how they act with something on the line they can't bear to give up.

i don’t need the lesson of 4devas to apply logistically to the cliff scene. once they were set up on that chessboard, frozen in their assigned places as a backstory, it’s not like takasugi could’ve power of friendship’d his way out of being physically retrained if he decided he wanted to. it’s set up as a forced choice, it has to play out as a forced choice.

but we see that even before it’s asked of him, takasugi is willing, prepared, unbothered to give up his own life for shouyou’s. this is, goose lays out in the sequel, the cardinal sin in gintama - a teacher shouldn’t outlive their student. it would have been especially egregious to shouyou, whose whole desired life’s purpose is to raise students who can outlive him and outgrow him, take his lessons and go out into the world and do their own thing with them. takasugi doesn’t expect to do this and doesn’t seem to see a point in the possibility if shouyou isn’t back with them.

though we can also think of shouyou as a little too quickly willing to give up on the cliff - sorry, gintoki, the suicidal guy has thought about it for .02 seconds and decided the best outcome is for you to kill him even though he could get out of this no problem. maybe its no wonder gintoki gave up too. can we ask katsura what he would’ve done?

and is takasugi different from shinpachi there? he rejects the mentor’s attempt to exchange his own life for his. he’s not willing to consider a life without him.

but shinpachi is convinced no one is going to die. because they’ll be there together. incredibly naive - shinpachi and kagura, restricted to one option by what they need to protect like everyone is in 4devas, have acting as that one option because they are still free in a way gintoki and the other adults aren't. they’ve never actually experienced the impossible choice that forces you to give up, so they can act as if there isn’t one - what else would they do? why would they think to give up?

but gintoki is defined by having lived the impossible choice. its built into the foundation of him as a character and leaks out everywhere. he couldn’t have relied on his friends on the cliff because they were quite forcibly removed from the picture as an option, not by his or their choice. its written as an inevitability, logistics we find out later be damned.

if we refocus to 4devas, we can look at the Gintoki Figure for a different angle. jirochou, after he and gintoki resolve the arc conflict by being able to team up because they - say it with me - put everything out in the open, tells gintoki about his impetus for abandoning his family and coming back to his wayward life in kabukicho, the death of otose's husband.

it's, um, another now really obvious parallel to gintoki, lol. characters talk about how jirochou does everything he does in this arc to try to atone for his failure to both otose and tatsugorou, and i guess thats true bc he was written that way but he has an odd way of showing it, but anyways he resolves that, despite his guilt over this, all he can do now is keep living and keep protecting what they loved together. he's come to the usual gintama message all on his own, reinforcing that this is the correct way to live in this series. he had his own unavoidably shitty situation, and he came to terms with it.

so then where did jirochou go wrong, in the narrative's eyes (other than abandoning one woman and their child to deal drugs in the town of his other woman while ignoring her)? was there a point he could've changed how their trio's story played out? but he loved and trusted tatsugorou, and he was happy to step aside and let him be the one by their otose's side. i doubt he would have been happy stealing her away even if it were possible.

but if we look at the resolution tool of 4devas... he never put everything out in the open!!! everyone knows he loved otose, but in more of an open secret way. in classic romance plot, he never confessed for second male lead rejection closure. indeed, in the closest we ever get to a main character having a romantic plot in gintama, the very ending of the arc flirts with him doing just that now that he's made a little progress with the arc message, with the entire cast of the arc expecting him to (and interrupting before he can).

but if he had when they were young. if he had been honest with his friends. could it have opened up other options that weren't available on his own, that they didnt know to offer? i have a preferred one lol. but u can get creative with all sorts of life paths that avoid tatsugorou dying that way or, at the least, jirochou feeling chained to a shameful life (living in a town he doesn't go out in to protect a woman he doesnt talk to and feeling like he doesnt deserve the family he abandoned for this) because of it.

and then if we take this and rewind back to the cliff... we get to grind my favorite ax, "shouyou shouldve told literally anyone literally anything about his deal." if gintoki knew more about shouyou, they could've faced his horrors together, the whole time. he couldve known that shouyou was being literal calling himself a demon and not internalized his own identity as one for life just because shouyou bonded with him over it. i truly genuinely think the logical conclusion of all of gintama's big messages are that shouyou and gintoki should have been more open with each other.

but i don't think sorachi thinks that. and, you know, by 4devas rules, the unriskable precious things he was protecting by staying silent were his students' humanity, and secondarily his own fragilely newly hopeful heart that literally couldnt stand another 10 millionth round of rejection (killed himself and then went on a 12 year rampage over it. girl i would too).

and takasugi really isn't dishonest about what's going on in his head when he tells us he expects to die for shouyou. that's as cards on the table as i could ask. gintoki is, a little bit, by omission. he does what i'd want him to here - tells takasugi try just not dying - but doesn't give him a reason to, and doesn't tell him he has no plans of letting anyone die for shouyou.

so what goes wrong on the cliff - shouyou is happy, gintoki is happy, oboro's even kind of happy, katsura is irrelevant - is that takasugi is blindsided (whoops) by their silent agreement that betrays the one he thought he and gintoki had. and then ruins everyone's party about it and spends the next ten years doing so for good measure.

which is also, basically, what shinpachi is going through that prompts the bitchslap, too. he thought they were a team, that they had each others backs, not that gintoki is a one-way protector of them. he is blindsided by gintoki lying to and tricking them and hiding things from them. he is hurt by gintoki feeling hopeless all by himself when he could share that with them and be encouraged by their endless child optimism.

and would it need to have changed anything on the cliff? in the moment after the bitchslap, what contributes to gintoki changing his mindset is tama telling him, we trust that you're capable bc youve always shown us that, can you trust us this time? when, later in the arc, gintoki seems to regress by sending kagura and shinpachi away, he asks them to trust that he's still trusting them, relying on them to help shoulder his burden, and in return they know he's staying alive, not self sacrificing. maybe it would've helped just to feel on the same team and not shut out, to be able to trust gintoki like gintoki was trusting shouyou?

so. two paralleled instances of gintoki making a bad situation worse by keeping to himself and being too self sufficient. that feels clear cut that feels fine im okay with that as a takeaway. do i think its exactly what sorachi had in mind while writing this, as opposed to just a good series 'hey lean on your friends' moment to read cool and tug at the heartstrings? eh lol. i think theres definitely room to read takasugi into this arc (i still need to refind the takagin 4devas post...) but its not so baked in that i think he was a PRIORITY in the plotting.

but is the shinpachi SCOLDING necessary is the scolding justified... and yes its in response to life doesnt need to be fun i just want you to live. still a confusing framing i can't immediately square. but/and more immediately its directly responding. to gintoki opening up to them about his insecurities!!

which, as said, he doesnt do!! he doesnt talk about his failures! its basically like, here and to hijikata that one time and otherwise even when we know all the facts about what happened we still never hear gintoki himself talk about it. (so he really DOESNT learn the lesson here either. he stays dissociated and triggered every time utsuro comes up. he tries to solve the altana baby problem on his own. he doesnt talk to his new friends OR his old friends. bwah. gintoki. silver soul.)

so this is like. its just in the wrong order!! its just in a baffling order lol. if you want gintoki to share his burden do you need to punch him when he shares it. does it also need to sound like you're blaming him for not being capable of upholding his promise to protect anyone when thats the insecurity thats got him all discombobulated this arc in the first place (a whole set of notes i took on this that i didnt find a place for in this post)?? its so weeeeiiiiiirddd lol i dont liiikeee itttttt. theres plenty of things shinpachi can validly punch gintoki for but this is such a weird one.

so i guess. having a clearer understanding of this arc do i hate it less? YES honestly. i hate fakeout plots generally they irritate me but everything... more or less makes sense by gintama standards now that i have the whole plot in mind.

do i hate jirochou less SORT OF? i enjoy him. in his individual relationships. i like his shitty dad deal i love shitty dads. i like him pining for otose who genuinely likes him but also brings up her husband every sentence she says to him just to keep him down. i like his parallels with gintoki that they both explicitly acknowledge and find macho comfort in. hes still not theeeeeeeee most well-developed gintama antagonist but you know? i at least think otose and pirako would want to be around him after this.

do i feel like i have a clearer understanding of the bitchslap moment. NOT CONVINCED I DO. i feel like its going to be one of those things that slips in and out of my understanding like sand in cupped hands. i have a tentative understanding of it that i dont think sorachi actually had in mind. so i dont think ive solved it lol.

will i be cursed to think about 4devas forever? god i hope not. am i okay with it beating farewell shins in the polls. god i fucking hope it does. in the horrible timeline where i have to see 305 make it all the way and then lose i guess id rather it be to this one than to hijigin. consider this poll propaganda?

[bonesandthebees]

Hey! Trying to get better at writing and honestly I thought World Forgetting was great! You dont have to answer this but what were some of the things you thought didn't work structurally?

aw thank you I'm so glad you enjoyed!

(first, this is not me asking for anyone to send me a ton of reassurance or fishing for compliments. these are just problems I have with my story from a writer's POV. don't worry about me, I know there's a lot of good stuff in the story. I just try to analyze my own writing objectively when I can to try and improve my skills)

now it's kind of hard to put all of my thoughts about my issues with WF into words, but I'm going to try so prepare for a lot of rambling under the cut

I think the most glaring structural issue is pretty much the entirety of the third act. it feels very rushed for everything that gets introduced in such a short span of time (for the record, when I refer to the third act I mostly mean all the plot events that follow after ch 12, when wilbur brings tommy to las nevadas and he nearly escapes only to choose to willingly stay)

everything past this just feels very... messy to me. we get introduced to the rest of the syndicate—Minos (Sam), Rhadamanthus (Puffy), and Aeacus (Ponk) and also get confirmation that Lethe and Styx are Ranboo and Tubbo respectively. then the only time Sam, Puffy, and Ponk feel even somewhat plot relevant again is when Hannah shows up at the sbi house and the syndicate has a whole meeting discussing wtf to do now. after that those three sort of just... disappear.

I was so caught up in trying to finish the story at the time that I didn't really care too much about it, but in retrospect that's always bothered me. why did I introduce Sam, Puffy, and Ponk in such a cool dramatic way if I was barely going to use them? Ponk at least has a function for being present in the story—they are the Syndicate's healer, which is undeniable proof to Tommy that the Syndicate didn't kidnap him for his healing abilities because they already had a healer. I mean, of course it's obvious why I threw them all in, it's a fanfic and sometimes you want to include every character you can even if they're not really serving much of a purpose. which is totally fine and there's nothing wrong with that, but for my longer stories that's not a crutch I personally like to fall back on. if I introduce characters in a way that makes them feel like they'll be important, I want to pull through on that.

at the same time, there's not really a place for those three in the finale. I needed to limit the amount of heroes and villains involved in the big final roof battle because if not I'd drive myself insane trying to write that many characters in a single scene at once. if I really wanted to fix that, the easiest and probably best way to be killing my darlings a bit. cut puffy out entirely (sorry puffy), mention that Sam is Minos solely because his tech manipulation power is necessary for tommy to get kidnapped in the first place but specify he's mostly retired, and probably mention Ponk in a similar position as not really being part of the syndicate but acting as their healer anyway.

also, I was in a tricky spot where I feel like there should've been more at least a bit more downtime between the syndicate meeting -> tommy confessing to wilbur he actually does have his memories -> hannah showing up and telling them about dream's plan -> tommy letting himself get taken by punz so he can confront dream. it feels very rushed to me, but at the same time the fic was already so long and there wasn't a need to drag it out even more, so that's why it's tricky for me to parse.

oh, and there are still issues before ch 12. one of my biggest weak points in world forgetting is how much time we spend with tommy just being trapped in the house/in his room. of course it makes sense, he's kidnapped. but it makes the story feel very stagnant that we don't get to see virtually anywhere else for such a huge chunk of the story as tommy works out his memories. tbh a lack of location variation is a weak spot in a lot of my fics. world forgetting isn't the worst example though. that award would probably go to stars, as much as I love the story I can recognize that it's pretty dumb that they virtually never leave phil's palace for the entire fic. but that's a ramble for another day. basically, even though there was a lot of emotional development going on for that chunk of WF, there's basically no real plot development. so that bothers me too.

also, while I really like the first act of world forgetting when tommy is still with dream and think it's the most solid, I do think it drags on for a few too many chapters. probably could've cut it down a bit.

[scalproie]

kfp4 is literally fine. idk why everyone is so mixed about it

that being said I do have some gripes with it like: the anachronistic names like steve and larry did piss me off bc it broke the immersion SO HARD for me. I dont remember it being such a problem before

Kai and Shen were distracting. Them being here with no narrative importance was obviously going to make people go "hey why dont they do more/have literally no lines?" rather than "oh look it's Kai and Shen! All the previous villains are here!", like I genuinely wouldve been fine if we just saw the chameleon transform into them or them not being here at all. It shouldve just been about kung fu masters which neither Kai nor Shen are. Genuinely only Tai Lung shouldve shown up.

Speaking of him, LOVED Tai Lung's inclusion, his scenes were great and I'm glad we got him back even for a bit. BUT. he was underutilized as hell. Like obv I wasnt expecting him to have a major role or to end up the new dragon warrior (like many people thought/hoped would happen for some reason? Guys it wouldnt have been satisfying) or even to have a scene with Shifu (like if THAT does happen, it needs a bigger focus and obv the movie was not going to be about that)... but I think he shouldve had longer scenes with Po. And unlike the other two main villains, he does have potential narrative importance: the movie is about the dragon warrior title itself again like the first movie (second was about Po himself, third was about chi as a whole/the panda village), and Tai Lung does embody the mastery of physical strength, which is what the chameleon is after. So yeah, while I dont want him to steal the spotlight more than he does anyway, I still think he couldve been used for more than just for a few snarky comments, and I'm a bit sad if this really is the last we'll see of him but also yknow, glad we got Just A Bit more. His very first and last scenes were sweet tho, him finally calling Po dragon warrior was nice (as long as I dont think too much about it tho lmao)

Anyway

The 5 not being present is such a non-issue for me. I love them sooo much DO NOT get me wrong but like genuinely, what would they have added to the story? How would you have worked them into it without breaking everything? I do not get why them not being here was such a deal-breaker for so many people bc you wanna argue they were well-utilized in kfp3? I'd rather the story focus on Po and another new character than trying to juggle the 5 into it, and besides, we got an explanation for why theyre missing (even if a little on the nose) so im not asking for more.

Anyway I'm gonna wait a few years before people calm down and realize kfp4 is literally fine, even good dare I say, because I remember how it was when kfp3 came out in 2016.

And speaking of kfp3, it has it easy bc "The Kung Fu Panda Trilogy" sounds nice and people just put it alongside the masterpieces that were kfp1 and kfp2 even tho, in my honest opinion, kfp4 is better, is funnier (the humor is on par with kfp2's even), has a similar pacing anyway, and the chameleon is a better villain than Kai byyyeee