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nobodysdaydreams · 6 months ago

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Your take on the si-5 is great. Kepcobi somewhat makes me cringe, as popular as it is. Its an abusive relationship whichever way you slice it

Anon, thank you for the compliment. I'm glad my SI-5 post has hit home for so many people.

Kepcobi as a ship was not the focus of that post (it was more about the SI-5's dynamic in general), but as for your thoughts on Kepcobi being abusive, I 100% agree that it is. Disclaimer: I know a lot of people who follow me ship Kepcobi, and that's okay. I personally do not ship characters that often, it's just not really my thing, but you can ship whatever you want, as long as we're talking about two consenting adults and not glorifying or romanticizing toxic and abusive elements and calling them out for what they are, it's your life. Ship what you want, have fun. It’s not like I or anyone else can stop you.

But with that said, while I'm hyperfixating and dropping hot takes and long character analysis ramblings, this does bring up another one of my very controversial Wolf359 opinions, which is that, in fairness to the SI-5, most of the most popular ships in Wolf359 and the ones with the most canon evidence are either set up for tragedy, incredibly toxic and abusive (most of them fall into this category tbh), or out of character and most of these hold true regardless of whether you look at the relationship platonically or romantically.

Again, ship what you want, do not let me stop you, and this opinion doesn't mean I don't see the appeal of these ships and why people ship them (that I understand), but I still stand by this statement, love in depth character analysis, and would be happy to explain it.

Let me break this down.

Arguably the healthiest and most popular ship in Wolf359 is Doug and Hera, but even that one is still doomed to tragedy from the very beginning whether you look at them platonically or romantically. Even before Doug loses his memories, Hera has a whole monologue where she contemplates what it will be like for her when Doug "goes away forever" because she is an AI could theoretically live until the end of the universe, and he is a human with a very unhealthy lifestyle of cigarettes, alcohol, junk food, poor hygiene and little exercise. He has magic alien blood in him now, but even that would probably only extend his lifespan so much. Also, any relationship involving Hera risks a power dynamic issue by design (because she's an AI whose free will can be taken away through coding at any time, and she was designed literally to serve the crew). However, I believe this affects Hera's relationship with Doug noticeably and significantly less than the other characters, particularly because we see Doug depend on Hera just as much as she depends on him, though in different ways. However, Hera still expresses her frustration that Doug doesn't realize she can always hear him and that he can't understand or experience everything she does and that he initially called her "robot girl" and didn't realize he was being insensitive (though to be fair, Doug accidentally said insensitive things to everyone). They do work through these barriers over the course of the podcast and it's not necessarily Doug or Hera's fault some of these miscommunications and issues exist, it's circumstance. I do really appreciate that Doug relies on Hera as much as she relies on him due to his executive functioning difficulties. I will say as someone with ADHD who often has friends and partners with more anxious and aware tendencies that balance me out really well, I related heavily to Doug Eiffel and do see why he and Hera have such a close relationship. Their friendship is wonderful, I see the appeal of the ship, and I love these characters so much they are my favorites, and I desperately wish that they could have had better things. They deserved so much better. But their relationship is, unfortunately, no matter how you chose to look at it (platonic or romantic) very tragic from the start due to the circumstances that make their relationship complicated and doomed to end up with Hera alone in the end whenever and however Doug and the rest of her friends “go away forever”. 💔 (and I do plan to write a fic about this because it makes me so sad. Poor Hera).

While we're talking about Hera, I'll also mention her and Maxwell. I’ve always believed that there is a difference between what I personally ship, and what we have canon evidence to prove. And while it took me a very long time to come around to the SI-5, I do think you could argue that we have some canon evidence that Hera might have had a crush (romantic or friend crush however you’d prefer to see it) based on the way she talked about Maxwell. Was this a mutual crush? Clearly not to same degree given Maxwell's betrayal, and therein lies the power dynamic issue I mentioned earlier, which is very applicable to Hera and Maxwell given Maxwell's coding skills. Hera likes Maxwell because she helped fix her and while Maxwell did so at great personal sacrifice and views the AI as people, she still has the coding skills to hurt and control them if she wants to (and she ultimately chooses to do so). Even though she apologizes for it and doesn't want to do it, she still does it, and it's pretty terrifying when you think about it. She forces Hera to tell her where her friends are and be subservient to her commands, very similar to what Pryce does with the restraining bolts. Part of what makes Hera's character so sad to me is that she's set up to be in abusive situations. She needs Maxwell, but Maxwell doesn't need her. She likes Maxwell because Maxwell views her as a person when so few people do, but even that is just the bare minimum. If Maxwell had the chance that Jacobi and Kepler did to change, maybe things could have been different, and I do really wish we could have seen a redeemed Maxwell develop a healthier friendship with Hera (and wrote a whole fic chapter where Hera reflects on that in the middle of my “a duckling imprints on Jacobi” fic), but unfortunately, we don’t get to see it.

And speaking of characters that are set up to be in abusive situations: Cutter and Pryce, and this again doesn’t matter if you see them as romantic or platonic. Look, I understand that just because two people are evil does not mean they are necessarily in an abusive relationship, you can be evil and still love your wife or husband or “weirdly devoted platonic coworker”. But even though I think Cutter and Pryce care about each other, I still think their relationship is abusive and we have canon evidence for it too. Disclaimer: I don't like Miranda Pryce, she was awful towards Hera and the other AI, she did unspeakable things, she's evil. She's a bad mean lady. But that doesn't mean she can't also be in an abusive relationship, and I believe she is in one whether you see it as romantic or not. You can be an abuser and a victim, those are not mutually exclusive. Even if you assume the whole "Pryce met Cutter as a child when he was an old man" thing was just a metaphor that didn't mean anything, there's still probably some sort of age gap between them even if they met when they were both adults. Putting that aside, there's still a huge power dynamic issue between the two of them. In the surface, they are in an alliance that benefits them both, but the benefits are not equal in the slightest. Their alliance allows Cutter to get a possibly infinite extension on his otherwise normal life span, have superpowers, get his revenge, and control the world. Their alliance allowed Pryce to live and see for the first time. She was disabled and going to die young, she was angry at the world and was originally motivated to build AI to be her friends to do whatever she wanted simply because no one else loved her or wanted to be her friend and she felt the only way to get that was to force people to love and obey her. Cutter was the only one giving her an option that allowed her to survive. That doesn't make it right, but it does make it understandable as does her frustration, bitterness, and hatred towards herself and humanity compared to Cutter's more positive silly attitude. But even once they're in a partnership, it's not a balanced partnership.

The story they tell at the beginning of Brave New World puts her and Cutter in a very uncomfortable "Cutter is her savior" narrative that, if you do assume they met when they were both adults, explicitly infantilizes Pryce and romanticizes that dynamic. We also hear multiple examples of other characters, both good guys and bad guys, acting disgusted or disturbed by Pryce's appearance, particularly her eyes, and Cutter seems to be the only one who isn't bothered by them. We also see Cutter interact with almost the entire cast throughout the course of the show, but Pryce mostly interacts with just Cutter or is in a lab by herself until the very end. She’s extremely isolated and most of the main characters don’t even know who she is until the end despite her being Cutter’s “work wife/worse half” and supposedly second in command at Goddard Futuristics. Now, don't get me wrong, I do think Cutter loved Pryce. I just think he did so in a very controlling way. Sure, he allowed her to call him by his first name and speak disrespectfully to him and openly criticize him, he called her the smartest woman in the world and admitted she was even smarter than he was, he praised her for her AI and rebuilding the world in her image and called her a god, and he was worried when she was in danger. But he also told her the one thing he feared was her making her own decisions in a crisis and messing up and that her one job was to back whatever decisions he made. He insisted on having control and the final say in their relationship. Then he forced her to apologize to him in the most condescending and patronizing way possible. It's giving 1950s in the worst possible way, which does sadly make sense given Cutter was born in the 1920s. Furthermore, Cutter also briefly considers whether it's even worth rescuing Pryce even though he does care about her. He ultimately does, and given that this is Cutter, that probably means a lot, but he still criticizes her for her behavior right after she almost died. It’s certainly more emotional abuse than anything else, but the signs are still there and the way that Pryce acts after she forgets about Cutter and his plans haunts me to this day. She goes from screaming at Hera and Doug to quietly apologizing for being confused and asking for help. I’ve never met a character I dislike so much and yet feel so bad for. I made a whole post about how Pryce and Cutter’s relationship and characters were a toxic mirror of Hera and Doug’s relationship and characters and I honestly think those might be some of my favorite parallels. I could talk about them forever. I will likely make more posts about it. But onto the other ships.

Then we have Kepler and Jacobi, and I already did my whole SI-5 post, but yeah…look. Is there canon evidence to support the ship? sure. Is it a healthy ship in a platonic or romantic sense? Heck no. Warren Kepler is a walking HR violation and some of the comments that he makes are just straight up… I don’t even know what to say other than Kepler is an arrogant jerk and a bully who clearly loves that he can get away with this kind of stuff, and Jacobi’s devotion and loyalty to Kepler is incredibly unhealthy. There’s also the issue of the savior complex and power dynamic issues I talked about with Hera and Maxwell and Pryce and Cutter that show up AGAIN here because Kepler saved Jacobi from unemployment and is his boss. Like with the other ships, I think Kepler did care about Jacobi to an extent just like Cutter cared about Pryce and Maxwell cared about Hera, but like those relationships, I still don’t think Kepler cared about Jacobi as much as he needed to or in the way he should have. In this case, it’s more in a “I care about you because we’re having fun or rather I’m having fun, and that’s what I care about” way rather than an “I sincerely love and care about you” way as evidence by the fact that Kepler compared Jacobi to whisky, didn’t care that his best friend died, and these two tried to kill each other. Though I do think a part of Kepler was sorry in end and acted more like he genuinely cared about Jacobi, it took him a ridiculously long time to get there. Plus then we have Jacobi’s whole implied thing with Klein “going badly” where he admits to being the toxic one and look: having that happen with one person at the evil space company is bad enough but two? Jacobi needs help. The man is a red flag running towards other red flags.

Finally, we have any romantic ship involving Renée Minkowski and any of the crew. Minkowski and Lovelace is the most popular one, but honestly, any romantic ship with her, whether it’s healthy or not, feels super out of character to me for a very simple reason. I cannot believe that Renée Minkowski would EVER cheat on her husband. The rest of the ships I’ve mentioned, toxic as most of them are (Doug and Hera being the main exception though their story is still very sad 💔) I will concede do have various degrees canon evidence, but the idea that Minkowski would get in a romantic relationship with anyone in her crew is just so wildly out of character to me. Minkowski, the woman who follows the rules of Pryce and Cutter, memorized the whole manual, and lies awake at night fretting about ethical dilemmas, willingly breaking her wedding vows? Absolutely not. She would never. She might have had a disagreement with her husband about coming to space, but they didn’t divorce over it. Clearly they weathered that storm, and Dominik was willing to wait for her to come back, he supported her dreams! She calls him wonderful, and the video messages she tried to send him were so sweet and personal you can just tell she loves this man and they have a good relationship. Now, with that said, I don’t think it’s entirely impossible to consider Minkowski getting into another relationships after her return to Earth. Dominik thinks she’s been dead for a few years and it’s not crazy to think he might have moved on and she unfortunately might have to move on too, but until that’s confirmed, I do not believe Minkowski would ever even entertain the idea of breaking her word to him, I just can’t see that being in character for her at all. Again, you can ship what you want, don’t let me stop you, but personally, I headcanon that Minkowski and Dominik are still happily married to this day, if nothing else because Dominik is probably pretty well off if he has his own secretary plus whatever salary bump it’s implied that Cutter gave him after Minkowski started working for Goddard, and he is probably more than happy to provide lodging and support to his wife’s loyal crew who saved her life upon their return. It’s the least they deserve after the horrors they went through: a lifetime of luxury vacations and five star hotels on Dominik Koudelka’s dime. Plus I feel like the reactions of the crew would be so funny. Minkowski invites them to stay with her since they have no place to go, and they’re worried about taking up all this space in her house, but then they get to her place and realize how big it is and are like “finding out you were married was shocking enough, but HE AND HIS FAMILY ARE INSANELY RICH TOO??? And super generous and willing to let us be your free loader roommates in your million dollar mansion to thank us for saving you??? Why on Earth would you not mention this earlier?” And Minkowski’s like “he’s a wonderful person and is the love of my life, the fact that he and his family have tons of money is not why I married him, nor is it a detail I was required to share with any of you”. Anyway, now Doug and Jacobi are getting invited to all these fancy rich people VIP events with Minkowski and Dominik and Minkowski has to beg them not to embarrass her (*cut to these grown men doing cannonballs in the country club pool*).

That’s about it for the main popular and canon ships. I suppose if you want to include Lovelace’s crew or some of the other crews, you could get healthy romantic ships out of that (although they’d unfortunately still be tragically doomed for obvious reasons). As for the other characters, I know Hilbert is mostly just for crack ships, but I also feel like the character would be so disgusted at the thought of being shipped with anyone, platonically or romantically. He’s not as old as Pryce and Cutter, but he’s still old enough to be almost everyone else’s dad. I feel like if asked about workplaces relationships for an official form his reply would be “absolutely not. My coworkers are young enough to be my children. Children I don’t even like. Children I would disown.” “They’re in their 20s and 30s. That’s an adult.” “If they are adults, they might try acting like it.”

I also find any platonic or romantic ship with Rachel unbelievable unless it ends with her betraying them for power, which I think she’s done before. I made a post about it, but the fact that she immediately understood the choice Cutter was facing when he had to decide whether rescuing Pryce was worth risking the mission makes me think she’s been in a similar situation.

To make a classic Bods’ long post short (too late), all these relationships fascinate me whether you choose to see them platonically or romantically (everyone has their preferences), but although many of them have canon evidence and strong narrative appeal, most if not all of them are tragic, toxic, or in the case of some of the romantic ones, out of character and/or random. I do understand the appeal and encourage you to ship what you want, write the relationships the way you wish they were (sometimes we all need that), but at the same time, the canon shipping and relationships thing being mostly sad and/or toxic is not just an SI-5 or Kepler and Jacobi exclusive issue. I just wish we had more redemption arcs and had them sooner. Then maybe we could have nice things. But no. So many of these characters just HAD to go and be evil and ruin not only their own relationships, but other people’s too. Sad.

#I just want them to all be friends #But they had to go end in tragedy or be toxic #And for what? For why?#Hera deserved so much better 💔#Pryce and Jacobi? I mean… let me put it to you like this #I’m glad they were the ones to survive instead of Cutter and Kepler #But they still have a lot to answer for #I also wish Maxwell had survived. I know she would have made the right choice (eventually)#W359 #w359 spoilers #wolf 359 #wolf359 #Long post

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secretcircuit · 3 years ago

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sleep / insomnia chatter under z cut... i am so tired lol

since surgery i have had such a hard time sleeping... i already deal with insomnia periodically, but this has worsened it A LOT. a few different things have contributed to it. in the immediate days following the surgery, (1) the post-anesthesia inability to sleep... then (2) having to sleep on my back without moving much (i usually sleep on my side & switch from side to side a LOT in one night. i am very restless)... and now (3) having more energy now that i’m recovering well, but not being able to give that energy an outlet via the more rigorous exercise i’m not allowed to do yet.

i have been doing what i can -- guided meditations (which rly helped the first week especially); trying to keep good boundaries around “if i’m in bed, i’m sleeping; otherwise i should get out of bed” (granted with mixed success lol, i’m in my bed rn); light walking as i am allowed to... but ugh i am so frustrated. i just want to sleep. thankfully i have been able to read a lot & listen to interesting podcasts (i’ve been catching up on the “millennials are killing capitalism” episodes i’ve missed) but jesus christ i am so sick of it lol... some small bright sides... waking up early means i get to hear the birds early :) i love birds!!!!! they bring me great joy :> ... tonight i got to see the moon :) she is very pretty!!!! and like, i LIKE reading, so i’m glad i have more time to do it (i have also been able to write, though not tonight).

it’s been a little over four weeks... so in just under two weeks, i’ll be able to return to more intense exercise (which always helps me sleep) and also -- HOPEFULLY -- sleeping on my side. im medically cleared to do it, but it’s just not very comfortable right now unfortunately because of how the incisions are placed. they don’t hurt exactly but... it’ll be a little while before it’s comfortable i think.

anyway ... goodnight???

#katertalks #kt gets surged 2022

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flying-elliska · 4 years ago

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so, I finished the magnus archives ...(spoilers)

unfortunately i'd been spoiled for most of what happened in it but it was still cool to listen to especially since the audio work on it was incredible (those haunted tape noises are the coolest thing i've ever heard on a podcast, it was so slick)

it worked for me on the level of the emotional reaction. it was very sad and poignant. i often find horror stories difficult because either the characters are assholes and then i don't care and the whole thing becomes pointless for me or i get too attached to the characters and then I'm devastated when bad things happen to them and this was definitely the former. I really wish these characters existed in a spooky paranormal fantasy/workplace comedy-drama where they could get the comfort and overwinnings they deserved, but alas. i get they were bound by the genre though and that bad things needed to happen. i think they did a good job of balancing the horror and tragedy and not making it too grim at the same time.

it didn't blow me away either tbh, like for instance the s4 ending did. but i think after all the insane levels of world-building up they did, it was bound to be a bit underwhelming, with some arcs and characters left underused (Agnes!!!!). it misses a bit of a wow factor i had at other times in the series. the thing with horror is that there is only so far you can push character growth before it becomes too optimistic, and so when you go really deep into a character arc that's not strictly a corruption, it can often feel frustrating and unfinished in terms of emotional payoff.

I have mixed feelings about s5 as a whole. It's really cool that they experimented with something new, the concept of the fearscape is fascinating, and some of the statements are among my favorites in the whole show (the Sick Village, Recollections, the Gardener, Wonderland, the Processing Line, Moving on...) and really bring the cosmic horror/metaphor for the horrors of capitalism/ableism/abuse/etc in a way that feels strangely cathartic and understanding and glorious - but a lot of the others, especially in act 2/3, felt very forgettable and repetitive, and less like stories that could stand on their own, which i loved about the more traditional statements. Once it becomes clear that Jon (and Martin as a consequence) can't really be hurt, and the more it all becomes very detached from the real world, the sense of doom and foreboding that they did so well throughout the whole show kind of vanishes. The tension weirdly feels lower because the worst has already happened. I really believe in 'more is less' when it comes to scary things, and in a hell world where everything is horrible everywhere, it has less impact after a while. I did love the relationship between Jon and Martin providing those moments of humanity and warmth in the midst of it all, though, that was sweet.

the end itself...well, I found the dilemma interesting on a character level. of course Jon would sacrifice himself ; he feels so guilty he would doom the entire world to die rather than have to shoulder even more guilt for the fears potentially conquering other dimensions. he's spent so long feeling powerless and out of his depth that he would grasp this chance to finally make a choice and have agency and protect at least some people and keep the fears from extending their reach. but i love that he wasn't able to see it through either. it's so human. him and Martin breaking their promises to each other isn't miscommunication, it's deeply rooted in their respective personalities. of course Martin would do anything not to lose Jon since that love is basically the thing that saved him from the Lonely.

i don't think any of the options they had were the 'right choice' - both were shitty and atrocious, but the one that ended up happening is the one i would have picked, because it leaves some space for hope. If Jon had chosen to end their world to trap the fears, killing billions of people in the process, that would have been certain doom. With the fears sucked into other dimensions - first of all they had no certainty that the fears didn't already exist somewhere else, and any of the other worlds still have a fighting chance. I mean, it still sucks tremendously, it's very scary and ethically questionable and a massive risk, but at least it's open and it leaves it up to the people in the other worlds to make their own choices. And their world has a chance to recover. I find the idea that people remember what happened and the concept of a post-post apocalyptic world fascinating. I also really like that Melanie, Georgie and Basira (and the Admiral) made it out alive, and that we don't really know what happened to Jon and Martin. For a horror podcast that's super dark, violent and depressing, it's kind of awesome how they managed to sidestep 'bury your gays' very elegantly.

I've read this head canon somewhere of Jon and Martin being scattered across dimensions as these not-quite-human anymore entities that work to warn people and counteract the fears, powered by love and the desire to make things better, and I think that's my favorite post-canon option, because while it's still kind of a horrible fate it's also the one that gives them the most agency and it's also kind of romantic (way too much for a horror podcast, I'm aware, but i like that open endings like these allow you to make your own decisions about what happened).

also, the Web won, which is terrifying. the idea that it's using people as neurons ! horrible. amazing.

on a philosophical level I'm not sure i find the whole thing all that interesting, as a thought experiment, because i don't believe the universe is this consistently evil in the real world, so i don't find it super relevant. I'm also not the kind of hardcore fan who remembers a lot of details about previous seasons, so maybe I'm missing something.

But yeah overall I think in terms of storytelling this remains a pretty decent ending with enough layers to make it satisfying. it wasn't transcendent but it didn't ruin the whole thing, at least (*cough cough the Black Tapes*) and I can see myself listening to it again in a few years. and i'm definitely going to need a few fix-it fics now.

#tma #the magnus archives #tma spoilers #jonmartin #tma s5 #tma finale #podcast review #also there is no better way to listen to a spooky podcast than to bike through the woods at sunset #both pleasant and kind of sinister it's great

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untitledtallgeesepodcast · 4 years ago

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[TRANSCRIPT] EPISODE 10: DESTABILIZING THE MECHA-WIFE DICHOTOMY

Cathy 00:00

[midi version of Just Wild Beat Communication plays, fading as Cathy speaks over it]

Cathy 00:03

Hello and welcome to another episode of Untitled Tallgeese Podcast. I am this episode's host Cathy and I am joined by my lovely co-panelists Kat, Mallory, and Caitlin. Today we will be going over Episode 19, "Attack on Barge" and Episode 20, "Infiltration of the Moonbase." We pick up where we ended with Zechs, who has been found by Howard, whom you may remember as Duo's scrap metal salvager. It turns out that Howard used to be one of the engineers who helped design Tallgeese. Howard offers Zechs a way back into outer space, which Zechs eventually accepts, but not without first posturing in classic 19 year old fashion that the man formerly known as Zechs Merquis is now dead.

Cathy 00:44

Meanwhile, Duo stages an attack on OZ, but his Gundam is beaten by the Taurus mobile dolls, and he himself is captured when his self destruct mechanism doesn't work. His arrest is broadcasted everywhere on the Colony News Network, capturing the attention of Heero, who menacingly implies that all weaknesses must be eliminated. After infiltrating the OZ base where Duo is captured, however, and faced with actually needing to pull the trigger, Heero thinks better of it and breaks them both out by tricking the mobile dolls into believing the OZ's own Leos and spacesuits are the enemies. However, Heero and Duo are sadly forced to leave the damage Deathscythe behind.

Cathy 01:20

Elsewhere, Wufei stages the episodes titular attack on the Barge. He just so happens to intersect with Lady Une, who, in her peaceful ambassador persona, has an elaborate telepathic conversation with Wufei and her second command Nichols about how Outer Space should be reserved for peace. Nichols, frustrated and confused about Une's dueling personas, orders the Barge's beam cannon to shoot at Wufei. It manages the damage Shenlong Gundam marginally, but sacrifices a number of OZ's own soldiers in the process. Wufei, disgusted, uses his triton to light a literal fire under his own ass and flies off.

Cathy 01:55

In the next episode, Heero explains that he must kill the Gundam scientists, who under the thumb of OZ have been ordered to make all new and better mobile suits, the Mercurius and Vayeate. Duo wants to go with him, but injured is forced to remain behind. Speaking of injured Gundams and their pilots, on Earth, Sally Po tries to destroy Sandrock but encounters the Maganac forces who are trying to rescue it for Quatre. After realizing they should form a support group, and that the Maganacs actually have names, Sally Po helps them escape.

Cathy 02:22

OZ has been very busy. For one thing Lady Une submits a proposal for the colonies to form their own nation with one catch: they have to help OZ produce mobile suits and military equipment. Understandably, the colony representatives are wary of this proposition. But Lady Une goes full Treize on them, talking about how fighting is part of the spirit and beauty of mankind. At the same time, OZ has been trying to recruit random amateurs to act as test pilots, only one of those amateurs turns out to be none other than Trowa. As his final test. he's ordered to destroy a damaged site while Duo helplessly watches a broadcast. Because Trowa makes it to the final rounds, he wins a meeting with Lady Une. His barbed accusations that OZ is pretending to be friends with the colonies in order to win them over causes Une to have a mental breakdown. After she recovers, Une escorts Trowa and four other lucky pilots to the Gundam scientists where they meet the new mobile suits, the Veyeate is not actually functional. It reacts seemingly to the presence of Trowa, only to reveal that it's Heero clear snuck aboard. Unfortunately for Heero, Trowa manages flip through the air and get to his own gun faster, arresting Heero on behalf of OZ. And scene.

Caitlin 03:33

Can I just say, that, remember being 19 and thinking, [dramatically] "my former self is dead!" [laughter] and then totally, totally reinventing your look and your life for college. I think that's Zechs in these episodes. [laughter]

Mallory 03:53

Zacks is going away to college

Kat 03:54

To space college!

Caitlin 03:55

You've broken the mask of your like, high school nerdiness and now you're [laughter]

Mallory 04:02

now you're free faced and hot.

Caitlin 04:04

To be you sexy self, yes.

Cathy 04:07

I didn't think of it that way but that is totally true. And Zechs, he plays a surprisingly marginal role in these first, in these two episodes, which is kind of surprising because he'd been really important in the episodes leading up until now. And I didn't really process that until now, where you point out that literally the only thing he does in these two episodes is act like an emo fool and then flies off. [laughter]

Caitlin 04:31

Well he's dead. So he's,

Mallory 04:32

Yeah.

Caitlin 04:33

He's like, in exile because he's dead right now. [laughs] He's, he's like resting.

Mallory 04:38

Yeah, he's like symbolically killed himself.

Kat 04:40

Yeah, and complaining about getting help from Howard. Like, "Ugh, this is so much trouble to just get me to space."

Caitlin 04:46

This is like Genji in the Tale of Genji when he sent off to like, it, be punished in exile for a couple of months, [laughter] whatever. And all he does is like hang out by the seaside and like make a new girlfriend. [laguhter] This is Zechs right now. How, Howard is the girlfriend? [garbled] Serious, Genji in Exile.

Kat 05:07

I'm glad you're bringing this serious analysis here.

Caitlin 05:10

Yeah, this is, this is literature.

Cathy 05:11

I love it. And I'm glad we somehow managed to shovel in Tale of Genji into this because [laughter]

Caitlin 05:16

Uh, this will not be the last time we talked about Tale of Genji, all right?

Cathy 05:20

So, you know, I have to apologize, I know that I am supposed to be host and I've admitted that I don't really have any deep thoughts about episodes 19 and 20 other than I love them, and they're really entertaining. So I guess I'm gonna throw Kat under the bus, one of the things you wanted to talk about is the OZ use of propaganda and kind of information control in these two episodes.

Kat 05:44

Yeah, so we've spent a lot of time as a podcast talking about Lady Une, and the different roles that she takes on. And it's really interesting to see her utilizing the broadcast television that they have going on in the colonies. I'm not sure if it's clear if that's getting broadcast to Earth or not, but she's definitely using it to control the flow of information to the colonists, including when they captured Duo -- deciding whether or not maybe jokingly, to execute him publicly, whether or not he's, he's pretty enough or ugly enough that the colonists would sympathize with him if he was ugly.

Caitlin 06:20

And unfortunately, he's extremely good looking.

Kat 06:23

He's too beautiful, so he must die. And I think it's kind of the culmination of all the control that she's had over their media streams leading up to this episode.

Mallory 06:34

And you also see, like you hear the spin in the broadcasters and what they're saying, which is really interesting, like, they're always like, "these young troopers are vying for a spot with OZ!" You know, like there's a, there's a celebratory kind of tone to all of the newscasts that we are seeing and hearing

Kat 06:55

And we get a lot of plot exposition in those news broadcasts of these episodes, I think a little more, like we've gotten clips and stuff, or they just want to explain something. But I think it kind of leads the plot in these episodes in a way that it doesn't quite do elsewhere.

Caitlin 07:11

One of the things that I think is really interesting about the use of propaganda here is that it comes along with the realization of the split in Lady Une's personality and I think that there is a way in which you can view her split personality as mirroring, or like metaphorically performing the split between OZ's reality and OZ's performance, right? OZ's propaganda image. To a certain extent, it's like she's become like the physical and mental manifestation of the doublethink required to be both the front-facing OZ image of a peaceful colony helper, trying to bring everybody together. And the cutthroat OZ that we know is the reality.

Mallory 07:54

Exactly. She's a hamfisted metaphor for like the cognitive dissonance at the heart of Oz. You know, like this focus and emphasis on niceties and gentility and grace and saving face versus the cutthroat merciless militaristic takeover that OZ and the Romefeller Foundation are actually carrying out. It's like sort of her mental break at this point -- is it signaling a split between these two factions? Like Treize seems like he's at odds with the Romefeller Foundation in some way.

Cathy 08:28

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, at one point in Episode 20, right, when she goes back into her room after she talks to Trowa, she says, something like, "Am I doing this for OZ? Or am I doing this for Treize?" [crosstalk]

Mallory 08:37

Yeah, "Or is my master Treize?"

Caitlin 08:39

I thought, I thought that was very interesting. It also reflects the parts of her that are... So like, her considering, "Do I work for OZ? Or do I work for Treize?" is also, "Aam I doing this work as the harsh and cutthroat colonel?" versus "Am I doing this work as the kind and gentle Lady?" Where like, one of them is the person who works for OZ, and one of them is the person who loves Treize and is just doing this out of duty and affection for him.

Kat 09:09

The episodes are so blatant, and kind of the colony-facing version of her is weaker, like she's stronger in uniform, and it's sort of like this weaker facade that they are putting on to the colonies? But also it's working, so I guess it's a testament to how intensely she's making herself believe in this persona slash, she has to put her entire belief into it for it to work.

Mallory 09:34

For her.

Kat 09:35

For her.

Mallory 09:35

Right, because it's been established that like, part of her character is that she can't, she's a bad liar. So it's almost like she has to make herself believe that what she's doing is good?

Kat 09:46

Yeah.

09:46

In order to promote this soft face OZ

Caitlin 09:50

It's what politicians do, we see it all the time.

Cathy 09:53

To me a really interesting part of this, and I don't think it's explicit. I think this is just me projecting on it, but there seems to be to me like a hollowness or an emptiness about what OZ actually stands for other than wanting power. We just have Treize, right? Like Treize is the entire idealistic "heart" of OZ. And when you remove that from the equation, it's kind of like, what are we even all doing? Like how does, how do any of the powers differ from each other? They really don't. [laughs] They just want power. And so I really find this interesting, trying to grapple with like, what power means or what, what anything stands for, what do ideals mean? and seeing Lady Une like, break down, actually, physically and mentally in a way that was really obvious, felt really like relieving to me, just to be like, that is the thing we all struggle with. And I think, surprisingly, Gundam Wing made a really potent and relevant comment about it. Like, it is just hard to understand what any of us are fighting for, when it comes to big power structures. It doesn't mean anything. We're all meaningless in it.

Mallory 10:57

Yeah especially when, like, the lines that you are being fed by those powers are like vague things about the heart of OZ. And what does that even mean? Like you can't base a belief system on like this vague concept.

Kat 11:12

It's hard to base like a whole governmental structure around the nobility of man's fighting spirit?

Caitlin 11:17

But also that is, this is fascism,

Mallory & Kat & Cathy 11:20

[crosstalk of agreement]

Caitlin 11:20

that you have. It's purely a lust for power. There's, there's a creation of a set of ideals, that -- those ideals only exist to keep people in the existing power structure, and replacing any sort of actual belief with a fixation on one central leader, as Treize has done. It's fascism. It's what we're seeing today, basically. [muttered] Sorry, not not to get political at our Gundam Wing,

Cathy 11:46

Not to get political in our, in our podcast about an anime that is about politics.

Kat 11:50

Well, I was gonna say, I think as a kid, when I watched this, I think I was a little more sympathetic, but in a more simplistic way about Lady Une? And to me, it felt very much like, she suddenly saw that peace could be achieved and realized that her true self was fighting against it and couldn't handle that dichotomy. But now that I know that every politician can just live with 1000 pounds of cognitive dissonance in their head at all times, I don't know if that's really a thing that's going on, like if that was a naive reading of it.

Caitlin 12:23

Yeah, if you, if you recall, from our argument last time, about like, is she, has she already sort of lost herself at that point? Or is she in the process of losing herself, we were sort of, we were sort of split on whether this was an active choice that she'd made, if it was like a deliberate choice to sort of split this part of herself off, or if it just sort of ruptured by mental break. And I think now we sort of see the transition. Whereas like, last, the last few episodes that are lead up to this, I was like, okay, she's deliberately creating this persona, because she knows that she's not really good at this stuff.

Kat 13:00

Right.

Caitlin 13:01

So she's created this other other person. Now she's now she's broken,

Mallory 13:06

It was sort of the ease with which she could do that was a foreshadowing of the cognitive dissonance that would then come back to haunt her, and that we're seeing her sort of pay for now.

Kat 13:18

She seems so assured of herself and like the Lady Une militaristic persona, even though she doubts herself when Treize chastises her, but that's the only time she's not like, do these fucking plans, like I'm telling you to do it, now. And for her to be so unsure of herself in the other persona is really interesting.

Caitlin 13:38

I'm actually kind of sick of her. I feel like this is kind of a hackneyed plot move

Mallory 13:42

Mhmm

Caitlin 13:42

on their part. I don't really buy like split personality as a trope.

Cathy 13:47

Let's move on, let's move on then. Caitlin is sick of her crap. Let us move on to our second point: mobile dolls. So I think there's a lot of really interesting themes in these two episodes about what it means to be a pilot and kind of human intelligence versus robot intelligence. You know, we see this both in the way Heero escapes from the base with Duo. And then also in Episode 20, when we reunite with the Gundam scientists, and their whole point is essentially like, it doesn't matter who's who in the mobile suits. It just matters who the pilot is.

Caitlin 14:21

Yeah, there's a really great moment where the mobile dolls very stupidly kill their own people because they're in the same suit that Heero was wearing. Yeah, they've had their targets switched around, which demonstrates that the mobile dolls are not a great solution to the problems [laughs] of war? I like that, though it's sad that they killed their own guys.

Mallory 14:44

Yeah, I mean, it's like a real surprise that an unmanned machine could be manipulated, you know, hacked.

Kat 14:50

Weird.

Mallory 14:51

Strange.

Cathy 14:52

Totally weird.

Mallory 14:53

Who could have predicted that?

Caitlin 14:55

AI did not solve all of our problems.

Kat 14:57

I like how pissed Nichols -- or possibly not Nichols -- is though when Trowa goes, "it doesn't matter which one is better because the better pilot will win" or whatever. And the OZ soldier flips out because I guess he's bought totally into this too. And they did take down at least one Gundam pilot with the mobile dolls. So like, how dare he even question the idea behind the mobile dolls, even though they brought him in literally to be a good pilot.

Caitlin 15:28

And then you have the whole thing where Heero's in the suit that's supposed to be non functional so it seems like it functions and then Heero -- it's actually Heero, that whole thing. I was sort of thinking of our other big contemporary mobile suit in the room, Evangelion.

Cathy 15:44

Oh god [laughs]

Caitlin 15:45

The, the machine is actually a part of them and it's not really about like pilot skill. It's about sort of a connection that is like, primal and animal. Whereas in Gundam Wing you have a connection with between the pilots and their suits? We sort of see this when Duo flips out about that's like being publicly executed.

Caitlin 15:45

Which came out the same year. The whole, the whole like, thing is that this terrible idea of children piloting a mobile suit only really works if the mobile suit is some sort of like biological and psychological projection of themselves slash their mother.

Cathy 16:04

Yes.

Caitlin 16:07

And with Quatre and the Maganacs, who are like we have to rescue Quatre's Gundam.

Mallory 16:29

Yeah.

Caitlin 16:29

Yeah. But that isn't like, the same thing as a mobile suit can function without the pilot or a mobile suit is something that needs, is an animal that needs control, like an Evangelion.

Cathy 16:39

Although it's interesting because I think in the last four episodes, we have seen examples of this. So for instance, Sandrock, of course, just kind of walks off right without Quatre.

Caitlin 16:51

And he's like, get out of me.

Kat 16:52

Yeah [laughs]

Cathy 16:53

It was kind of like a weird open question as to whether or not Deathscythe, like didn't want to blow up with Duo in it? or if there was actually a failed self destruct mechanism. And they leave that kind of open. Similarily, and I know I called this out in my background when I was summarizing this, I love the way the end of Episode 20 is set up because there is this moment where I was almost wondering if my memories of this episode were incorrect, and that Mercurius and Veyeate really just sort of light up because Trowa is there, right? Like I was just like, oh, are they responding to Trowa? But then it turns out, it's because Heero is there. So there are all these little moments where they're kind of like building in this doubt, like, what are the Gundams? What are mobile suits? How tied, like what is that symbiosis. And I think it is really interesting that it comes out at the same time where Eva kind of like definitively falls one way or another on it, that they kind of just leave that open.

Kat 17:48

Bringing in Tallgeese, this episode too, like Zechs shows up just so we can hear again about Tallgeese and I think his relationship with that mobile suit is very much about his synchronisation with it. Like, it's harder to pilot than all the other ones so they continually talk about how like, you'd have to be a human or like, it gave him a frickin heart attack, because it's so difficult to pilot kind of thing.

Caitlin 18:12

So it does sort of reflect our relationship with machines in real life. I think a lot where you're like, Yes, I am, I am the driver of this car. I don't think this car is able to make its own decisions. I think most of us can agree that AI cars are kind of stupid, the self driving cars.

Kat 18:29

Yeah, thus far.

Mallory 18:31

I mean, I really want one but

Caitlin 18:33

When you think about people's relationship to their cars,

Cathy 18:36

Mmhmm.

Caitlin 18:36

It's an extension of self. And you get people who are who are obsessed with cars, who name their cars who refer to them by female pronouns. You have these really intense relationships with technology that the show plays with a lot even while saying, verbally, It's the pilot that matters, not the machine.

Cathy 18:55

So before we leave Mercurius and Veyeate, I want to say I actually found that really interesting and much more interesting when I saw them this time as I'm older. You know, they're red and blue. So I just want to like put that plug in, you know, there's a very kind of symbiotic relationship between red and blue.

Caitlin 19:12

[gasp]

Cathy 19:13

Just generally

Caitlin 19:13

I ship red/blue. All of my ships are reds and blues. Oh my god!

Cathy 19:18

Like they're, you know, there's a, there's a general kind of fandom-y trope and work trope, literary trope about red and blue. Heero ends up popping out of, I think it's Veyeate, who is the blue one, and the blue one is the one with the really great beam cannon. And then the red one, Mercurius has the shield. So I mean, the one interesting thought I had, like literally the only one thought [laughs] that I in these two episodes is that there's a great Chinese idiom called zìxīang máodùn" (自相矛盾). And máodùn is the Chinese term for sort of being self-contradictory and kind of like unable to go anywhere because you're kind of tying yourself up in knots. And that word in that phrase [Baldwin] actually comes from two separate words [mall], which is a spear or a lance and [twin] which is a shield. And it comes from a really classic story [Ed.'s note: from the Han Feizi] where this merchant is saying he has, you know, the world's best lance and then the world's best shield. And then somebody asked him, "Well, what happens if your lance attacks your shield" and he's unable to answer? [laughter] And so when we say "máodùn" like "oh my god, I'm so máodùn" like, "Oh my god, I'm so you know, I'm tied up in myself in knots, and I can't figure my way out," you know, I'm really confused, I'm really troubled, what we're really saying is, we have an unbreakable shield that goes up against an unstoppable lance.

Cathy 19:37

So I thought, you know, here, there's this moment where it's like, very much implied, they don't make a big deal out of it, but you have Heero and Trowa who I've always in my head kind of put in the same axis, you know, like they are kind of like the same people but on two different ends. And they are representing, they're both undercover in different ways, Heero has actually snuck into the beast, Trowa has gone undercover [laughs] as an amateur pilot for us. They end up kind of repeating this cycle sort of over and over again, throughout the series, and then it comes out in this really obvious reference to having a spear and having a shield. So I thought that was really fun.

Caitlin 21:20

Cathy you're not gonna believe this. It's the same word in Japanese. Oh, is it really? For conflict contradiction? It's mujun (矛盾). So I had to look at the characters of máodùn. But yeah, it's it's mujun in Japanese, which just means contradiction, but it's the same spear and shield, yeah.

Cathy 21:35

There is kind of a wonderfully elemental and like contradictory sense with Veyeate and Mercurius is that I didn't catch on the first time I watched it and just wanted to share with the group.

Kat 21:48

I think that's fascinating to me, because I love the interplay between Heero and Trowa there when Heero drops his gun and he's in the beam cannon. So in that case, shield wins. [laughter] Because I mean, Trowa's on the defensive

Caitlin 22:05

Shield wins!

Caitlin 22:06

You know what else is a dichotomy? [laughing] That is operative in many of these [laughing]

Cathy 22:15

Uh oh.

Mallory 22:18

Seme and uke.

Kat 22:21

Dammit

Cathy 22:21

Dammit. Alright, where's this going? [laughter]

Caitlin 22:24

It's not going anywhere, it ends right there, that's [laughing]

Cathy 22:30

Well, I am going to selfishly move this conversation then to I think I really love which is the whole Heero/Trowa/Duo like trio dynamic that is happening. There's a lot of stuff that is going on between these three people on every leg of this triangle that is happening in Episode 19/20 and I just would love to talk about it.

Mallory 22:53

There's a lot of emotional entanglement going on.

Kat 22:56

So I liked when Trowa sees that Duo is captured and then -- on his Gundam TV -- and is like, "I bet Heero will handle that, it's cool." Like just, just assumes that he's going to take care of that guy.

Mallory 23:10

Well he knows right you know knows that Duo is like Heero's first boyfriend.

Caitlin 23:16

I liked when Duo said, "I don't want anyone else besides you to kill, kill me Heero." And then when Heero's like, "Yeah, I'm actually going to kill you," Duo's like WHAT?

Mallory 23:24

"Why would you do that?" Sad puppy eyes.

Caitlin 23:27

"WHAT? You're really, you're really gonna do it?"

Cathy 23:31

And I love how that is also then followed up by a scene where Trowa is actually forced to shoot Deathscythe and doesn't hesitate.

Caitlin 23:42

That depressed me.

Cathy 23:43

There's like this beautiful like, to me. you know this like, I don't even know what to explain about it. Where like Heero goes with the express intent to kill Duo and then does-- isn't able to do it for one reason or another which is not really, you know, even lingered upon but it is amazing, see, I love that.

Kat 24:00

It's they're, they're in love.

Mallory 24:01

Could, he just couldn't he doesn't know why

Cathy 24:03

He just couldn't and

Caitlin 24:04

He's not good at killing people, actually,

Kat 24:07

He's not good at killing hotties he likes.

Cathy 24:09

What I love specifically is both of these scenes involve a thing where the assault ,the assailant throws away his gun. But in this case, Heero throws a gun at Duo and says "your right hand is okay, right?" being like, you can use this gun.

Caitlin 24:22

Aww

Cathy 24:23

And then in Trowa's thing, he throws away his puny little gun so that he can ask for beam cannon so they can actually destroy Deathscythe. So I, again, I have no idea who wrote this. But like if you read that in a fic, you'd be like hell yeah, this person knows what they're doing.

Mallory 24:39

Oh, yeah.

Cathy 24:40

I just wanted to point that out. I loved it. I ate that up with spoon

Mallory 24:43

The shipping the one true pairing OTP./OT3 energy is real strong in these episodes.

Cathy 24:49

Oh so good

Mallory 24:49

And Kat and I have been watching the dubs and then watching the subs after for each of the two episodes and the delivery of the dub actors versus the sub actors is so different between Duo and Heero that it like really informs the pairing dynamics that you might see in fic.

Kat 25:11

Yeah, watching the dub is like, "Oh, I see." Like, this is exactly fic duo where he's like, you're gonna kill ME? Versus like, "oh, you're really gonna kill me?" Like it's it's so different.

Mallory 25:25

It's it's really different. And like, for me the difference in the delivery of the the exchanges, especially as they're escaping after Heero has rescued Duo is so different. In the dub, Duo and Heero's relationship is more one-sided, like Duo likes Heero and has affection for him, but Heero is still kind of like closed off. But in the sub, I hear more, sort of, we're already in love with each other, but we don't know it yet. Whereas in the dub, this is like, pre we even have feelings for each other. Does that makes sense?

Caitlin 26:00

It's interesting that you do so much deep reading of these inflections when I was just like, the dub acting is not very good. [laughter]

Kat 26:10

Well, I mean, it could definitely be that.

Mallory 26:12

right?

Kat 26:12

But it just, it feels so different. But I guess more in terms of how it might inform fandom reading of the characters.

Mallory 26:21

Yeah,

Kat 26:21

Like watching one or the other. Like I if I watched only one I would have a different view of how those two characters interacted.

Mallory 26:30

Right, the first time I ever watched Gundam Wing and then went and read fanfic, I was I was really confused by the presentation of Duo because in fanfic he's just kind of this like hapless... I don't know sort of like [laughing] not the not smart character [laughs]

Caitlin 26:49

He's a baka!

Kat 26:50

He's a dumb baka.

Caitlin 26:52

That's the term.

Mallory 26:52

Okay, well, I just didn't, didn't want to say it. [laughs]

Caitlin 26:55

Do we, do we need to pull out the vows of not making Duo a baka again?

Cathy 27:02

Nooo we don't

Kat 27:03

Oh my god. Yeah.

Cathy 27:04

We don't we don't need to go to the Society for the Defense of Duo's Intelligence.

Caitlin 27:08

Yes, we need to review our laws of not making Duo a baka.

Kat 27:14

He has read one book. But I mean, he's, he's just not, like he gets overwhelmed by mobile dogs. It's not like he's a moron getting captured and stuff.

Cathy 27:23

I do also want to say that, like he does, he is following this particular like, hurt/comfort trope.

Mallory & Kat 27:31

Yeah/Mmhmm

Cathy 27:32

That I don't know why was so pop-- I don't know if it's still popular now but it was incredibly popular then. And in order for that trope to work, somebody has to constantly like be beat up or like in

Caitlin 27:45

Yes

Cathy 27:45

a state of pain or in a state of peril

Caitlin 27:48

Umm

Cathy 27:48

And unfortunately,

Caitlin 27:50

I think this is definitely still a thing but it's a little bit different now. Whump has evolved I think,

Kat 27:56

Yeah.

Caitlin 27:57

it still exists though.

Kat 27:58

It's not quite the same

Cathy 27:59

And, but it definitely doesn't exist the same way as it used to, which was very explicit and very blunt. And in order to get there you kind of had to put one of the characters kind of in like stupid situations I feel like? and

Kat 28:11

Yeah,

Cathy 28:12

Yeaaaah

Caitlin 28:12

And that was Duo so I,

Cathy 28:14

These days you're not allowed to beat characters up as much. You kind of have to justify it.

Kat 28:19

Yeah, I think also you find fewer authors that are like I'm gonna write 40 fuckin fic and Duo is gonna get his ass kicked in every single one of them.

Cathy 28:28

Yeah (?)

Caitlin 28:29

I don't know though, because if you, when you dive in, in the tags, you can see some really wild things with contemporary fandoms. It's just not the fic that's, that's dominating the like, rec lists or like the circles that

Kat 28:41

Definitely the whump is a lot less dark.

Mallory 28:44

Yeah.

Kat 28:45

Well, good thing Gundam Wing canon provides. Duo gets his ass beat multiple times n canon so... by other pilots, it is great. That's why he's a fave.

Caitlin 28:53

He looks beautiful in these episodes

Kat 28:56

He really does

Caitlin 28:57

When he's like beating up in the cell. When Heero's like, "No, you can't come with me because you're useless." [laughter]

Caitlin 29:03

And he's like, be a little kinder next time.

Cathy 29:06

I love that Heero was just like, well go to school for me. I'm like, are you?

Mallory 29:10

Yeah.

Cathy 29:10

[laughter] What is wrong with you, Duo doesn't look anything like you?

Kat 29:14

Didn't Heero already go to that school? [laughter]

Caitlin 29:16

He made a whole speech

Mallory 29:17

You made a whole speech in front of everybody.

Kat 29:19

"Oh, you're gonna be real popular buddy."

Cathy 29:23

And I kept being like, is that like, I remember this. I really do remember this scene where he's just like, go to school. And like now I'm watching and I'm like, it is just as weird as I remember it. [laughs]

Caitlin 29:33

Wait, wait, wait, you know what the real point of him saying that is so now we know that Duo knows that Heero used his name,

Kat 29:41

Right, yes.

Caitlin 29:41

to enroll in school. So now Duo in our fanfics can think, "oh my god, he used my name, he's obsessed with me."

Kat 29:47

"What a fucking weirdo." [laughter]

Caitlin 29:49

"Maybe he really is in love with me. Blah, blah, blah blah." So that is like, him saying that I think is some sort of like pure fan service where it doesn't really make any sense and it's just to let us know that this character now knows this other character thinks about him.

Cathy 30:04

I completely lost my shit at this episode, I just want to tell you. I was like watching it and losing my shit.

Caitlin 30:10

These are really good episodes. I like fell asleep during them 'cause there's something wrong with me obviously. But they're really good episodes, a lot of stuff happens to the point where I think it's hard for us to think of things to like, really substantive things to say. They're just good action episodes.

Cathy 30:25

So before we move on, one last thing, you know, we had this amazing moment with Sally Po and the Maganacs when they met each other and they're kind of like, "you know, a Gundam pilot? I know Gundam pilot." It was great. I'm glad that we haven't forgotten Sally Po.

Kat 30:43

I'd like that you shouted out the Maganac names because in one of my one of my notes is like, "it's so nice that they have names now."

Caitlin 30:49

They all have names

Cathy 30:51

I love them.

Mallory 30:51

And they have personality. And I like that they're ribbing with each other like, "Oh, Abdul's plans never work the way they're supposed to, ugh."

Caitlin 31:00

Yeah, there's a token fuck up. It's great.

Kat 31:02

Yeah. [laughter]

Cathy 31:05

I really, I mean, I, those are like the little things that I think. I don't know, it just overall, there is a really rich universe in Gundam Wing that I'd forgotten about the first time I watched it. And it was nice to see that there are these moments in the show that there's no reason for anybody to shout out. But the fact that each of the Maganacs had a name. Each of them had a personality.

Kat 31:25

And some style.

Cathy 31:26

Yeah. So we kind of had like a weird hybrid cultural artifact that we wanted to talk about today. Kat you had brought up this video, which is of Super Robot Wars.

Kat 31:39

Yeah.

Cathy 31:40

Which is a part of the Gundam franchise more generally. And then I also just wanted to talk about my experience with Gundam fighting games, but you first.

Kat 31:48

So Super Robot Wars isn't just the Gundam series, but it's most, most of them are produced by Sunrise, but it's like a Bandai Namco Entertainment game. So even Evangelion mecha have shown up in it. But there's a ton of different Gundam characters and robots, like a turn based RPG with different characters mecha and storylines they pull from all different anime series, mostly Gundam.

Caitlin 32:19

Does it give you more information about the Gundam Wing world? Do you get like more details with the characters?

Kat 32:27

Not a ton, sadly. I mean, not for gonna wing. Maybe for other ones. There's like one specific Super Robot Wars, Super Robot Wars W which was for the DS that had Quatre and Duo, and Duo is disguised as Heero Yuy and you have to play a mission to sneak them to Earth. I've watched like YouTubes but Super Robot Wars always felt like one of those canons like side canons that I could never really access as a kid? And now that I could do it, it's sort of like eh. Treize is in it actually, Treize is in Super Robot Wars W also, he's the Federated Earth Nation President.

Cathy 33:08

So I okay, so there there is a running joke I have with my friends and this is kind of rude and I'm really sorry. I do think there is a certain element of like, what I usually associate with kinda Reddit anime fandom, or a certain element of like, and I'm sorry to say this but like "cis male anime fandom on Twitter?" And I call them Dragon Ball versus Naruto fans and those are people [laughter] are always talking about who is stronger, or like who would win in the battle, Naruto vs Goku? And like, to me that is like the least interesting thing about watching either series.

Caitlin 33:43

It's the dumbest shit.

Cathy 33:44

Right? Like I don't give a shit. Like

Kat 33:46

Right, who would smooch who?

Mallory 33:48

Yes,

Cathy 33:48

The reason why I bring this up is like, is I wondering if, if that is what Super Robot Wars is supposed to appeal to? Like? Is there an element where you want to see all of the Gundams from, and all of the like, mecha from the different series come together and fight. Like who? Like what is the appeal of this game?

Kat 34:10

I think it is. It's like getting to interact like with all these different things from franchises you like. But it's not like a mecha-to-mecha thing all the time. I don't know it's maybe it is, it's not a fighting game though. You're, it's an RPG.

Cathy 34:26

Okay,

Caitlin 34:27

Interesting

Kat 34:27

The White Fang from Gundam Wing in the future is like a villain. Like they ally with a rebellion from Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam so like, so it's that kind of thing. But I

Mallory 34:41

I mean, I can see why people would why it would appeal to a certain segment of population that games manufacturers would assume are watching the shows. [laughter] You know, it's it's just like the novelty of seeing. I don't know, isn't that why movies like Civil War? And

Cathy 35:01

Yes, absolutely.

Mallory 35:01

all of those are so popular because it's like, I just want to see them bashing against each other like Superman versus Batman versus Iron Man, you know,

Kat 35:10

There's got to be a mecha versus mecha game though like that feels like it has to exist. This one is interesting, because I think it's interesting that Gundam Wing is sort of outside the greater shared Gundam universe. So for them to pull it in for this was always interesting to me, because I was like, I always liked Gundam Wing as a kid because it's like, "oh, I can watch this. But I don't need to watch this other stuff that's going to be like 20 bucks for a VHS tape with two episodes on it."

Caitlin 35:39

Right. But then you could you could get into Gundam Wing, and then you could be like, oh, Gundam Wing is in Super Robot Wars. So I play that and then suddenly you get into these other things,

Kat 35:48

Right. exactly.

Cathy 35:50

So I actually played Gundam Wing: Endless Duel on an emulator and Gundam Wing: Endless Duel is actually a robot versus robot fighting.

Kat 35:59

Hell yeah!

Cathy 36:00

And, um, I really don't remember how I got this. I think somebody handed me like a CD-R? of all these have like an SNES emulator.

Caitlin 36:10

C! D! R!

Cathy 36:11

And there was Gundam Wing Endless Duel and I think like a Sailor Moon flaming game, maybe?

Caitlin 36:16

There is a Sailor Moon fighting game.

Caitlin 36:17

Yeah, that definitely exists, yes.

Cathy 36:19

So I played, so I remember, you know, and my mom was never gonna listen to this, she'll never know that I did this. I used to, like sneak down into our basement, like get on the computer in our basement and like play, like, you know, from the hours of like, 2am to like 4am, play like Gundam Wing Endless Duel, which was all in Japanese at the time, I had no idea was going on. So I was just like, mashing buttons. I was not particularly good. But it is great. And there is a lot of like, you know, obviously everybody forms opinions about like, who is the best Gundam and who is the worst Gundam? Like I think Heavyarms sucks. [laughter] So it's always like, beat up on Heavyarms while you're playing? Because you're like, "Yeah, he suuuucks." And like, there is this really fun moment where you get to try on all these weird ideals that come up in Gundam Wing. And I'm sure that's true of every Gundam game, but I like there is a moment where it's like, "oh, yeah, this is what it feels like to be a cishet anime male being like Naruto vs. Goku." That was my Naruto versus Goku moment.

Kat 37:18

I feel like the suits definitely made it further then the characters and Gundam Wing

Caitlin 37:23

was very much their own characters in a lot of ways. And like a lot of fans are just really into the cha-- and into the suits. It's like, it's like, instead of your waifu who you have your mecha. Maybe or maybe you can have both.

Kat 37:36

Uhhh, my mecha could be my waifu. [laughter]

Cathy 37:40

On that note, thank you guys for joining us to discuss Episodes 19-20 and also marrying a robot.

Caitlin 37:48

Nothing wrong with that.

Cathy 37:49

Nothing wrong with that. We appreciate all robot fuckers on this podcast. [laughter] Thank you guys, see you next time.

Kat 37:59

Keep in touch! Hear about our new episodes on Twitter at TallgeesePod. Find our full transcriptions on Tumblr at UntitledTallgeesePodcast dot Tumblr dot com and follow us on Instagram at UntitledTallgeesePodcast for behind the scenes deets, fandom artifacts, and memes.

#gundam #gundam wing #mobile suit gundam #anime nostalgia #90s anime #anime podcasts #untitled tallgeese podcast #episode 10 #transcripts

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whovianfeminism · 6 years ago

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Whovian Feminism Reviews “The Woman Who Fell To Earth”

It feels like I’ve been waiting ages for this. And finally, she’s here. And she was brilliant.

Doctor Who made an exuberant return to our screens with a new showrunner, an almost entirely new creative team, and — for the first time in the show’s historic 55 year run — a woman as the new Doctor. “The Woman Who Fell to Earth” was a busy episode with an impossibly long list of introductions to make, and yet it managed to welcome the Doctor’s new “fam” in a story filled with horror, humor, and plenty of heart.

I won’t lie — I needed this episode to be good. After fighting for a woman to be the Doctor for so hard and for so long, I don’t think I could’ve handled the heartbreak if it had been subpar. It’s not really fair that TV shows and movies with women leads are held to such impossibly high standards, but that’s the unfortunate side-effect of sidelining women for so long and featuring them in the lead role so infrequently. Our hopes and expectations are so high precisely because we have such limited opportunities. Thankfully, “The Woman Who Fell to Earth” met and even outperformed our expectations. The very few trolls who are still harassing supportive fans were drowned out by the overwhelmingly positive response to Whittaker and her new friends, and the ratings went through the roof. Whittaker has utterly captured the fandom, and more importantly, she’s brought in an entirely new generation of fans.

Nevertheless, you could practically feel the tension about the Doctor being a woman running through the episode. The Doctor herself was notably unbothered by the change, simply asking “Does it suit me?” (God, yes it does). But her final monologue was squarely aimed at the audience:

Because we’re all capable of the most incredible change. We can evolve while still staying true to who we are. We can honor who we’ve been and choose who we want to be next.

This is a final Hail Mary throw to the fans who were still unconvinced. Each Doctor is new and different from the one who came before, building and changing and evolving the character over the decades. This is just another evolution — grounded in the show’s deep history but looking forward and beginning to embrace the character’s full potential. It’s a deliberate choice to embrace the future, instead of remaining stagnant and trapped in the past.

Jodie Whittaker knew the importance of the role she took on, and she performed it brilliantly. It’s always difficult to judge a new Doctor in their first episode, since they are supposed to be a bit unbalanced and chaotic post-regeneration. But even when the Doctor didn’t quite have a grip on who they are, Whittaker was a force to watch, attacking every new scene with an unquenchable energy that was utterly captivating. She captured the Doctor’s earnest, childlike joy just as easily as she assumed the Doctor’s strident anger.

It’s incredible that Whittaker didn’t extensively watch Doctor Who before assuming the role, because there’s echoes of so many previous Doctors in her own performance, from Patrick Troughton’s physical humor to David Tennant’s hectic energy. Between the out-of-commission TARDIS, the big new family, and the cobbled together bits of Earth and alien tech, I was even getting a Pertwee-ish vibe from this story. But the Thirteenth Doctor is clearly stamping out her own personality. When the Third Doctor would’ve tried to escape Earth, she lingered. Where the Tenth Doctor would have gotten carried away, she focused.

The moment I truly fell in love with her was when, frustrated by her inability to get anything done without her sonic screwdriver, she decided to go ahead and build one herself. It’s been alluded to before that the Doctor has made their own sonic, but this is the first time we’ve ever seen them do it onscreen (the last two Doctors had theirs magically supplied by the TARDIS). That sequence, set to Segun Akionla’s gorgeous score, is going to be iconic. This is a Doctor who is going to do things on her terms and build it her own damn self.

But the Doctor can’t do everything on her own, and her new friends show quite a lot of potential. Yaz was given the least attention this episode, but I have a feeling she’s going to be the one to watch. She’s driven, ambitious, and ready to run into danger — perfect companion material. But Yaz is a cop, and she’s used to being in a position of authority in dangerous situations. We’ve already seen her clash with the Thirteenth Doctor over who will be in charge, and I have a feeling that we haven’t seen the end of that conflict.

Ryan was the true heart of this story. He’s earnest and sweet, even if he has his moments of explosive frustration. He’s also curious and open to believing some of the more incredible things that the Doctor says. Together, Yaz and Ryan balance each other perfectly. Yaz pulls Ryan into trying new and dangerous things, and Ryan encourages Yaz to be more open to accepting that the world is a bit wilder than she could’ve possibly imagined.

I’m still warming up to Graham. He had a few comedic moments, and his relationship with Grace was adorable, but on his own he’s a little bit harder to handle. He was prickly with Ryan in a way that was uncomfortable to watch; I actually cringed when he suggested Ryan would blame his mistake granting access to the Stenza on his disability. He’s also more inclined to leave a dangerous situation, which doesn’t make him a natural candidate to be a companion. I'm curious if his character will grow or change at all while traveling with the Doctor.

Representation was a quiet focus of this story. In addition to the first woman Doctor, we had three POC lead characters, a diverse supporting cast, an interracial relationship, a nontraditional family unit, and a character with a disability. And none of these was a huge deal, it was simply reflective of the world in which we — and these fictional characters — inhabit.

Doctor Who has had a mixed record of handling disability, but I was pleasantly surprised by how well Ryan’s dyspraxia was handled. It wasn’t magically caused by aliens and wasn’t miraculously cured by the end of the episode. It wasn’t the key to solving the issue at hand, but it didn’t limit Ryan from being a hero either. It introduced the disability to thousands of viewers without stigma or shame, and since the episode aired the internet has been filled with thrilled responses from people with dyspraxia.

But there was one major failure in this story — Grace’s death.

Of all the Doctor’s new friends, Grace was the most suited to being the Doctor’s companion. She wasn’t afraid to run towards danger — in fact, she loved every moment of it. She kept her eye on the bigger picture and always asked the right questions. And she kept everyone in check, including the Doctor (and that’s no small task). She would’ve loved every moment of adventure in the TARDIS. Instead, she was summarily killed off just as her adventure was getting started.

I was following the conversation on Twitter during the simulcast premiere. While everyone was sad at Grace’s untimely death, the disappointment was particularly pronounced amongst black women. I highly encourage everyone to read Tai Gooden’s review in Hypable and listen to the TARBIS (Time and Relative Blackness in Space) podcast’s response to hear directly from black women and understand why they were so hurt by Grace’s death.

In my mind, Grace’s death is absolutely an example of fridging —a death created for the sole purpose of causing Ryan and Graham grief and propelling their characters forward. Her final words were to encourage Graham not to be afraid without her. Ryan’s YouTube commentary, where he grieves over her death, anchors the beginning and end of the story. And given that Ryan and Graham never got along well on their own, Grace’s death will almost certainly be a recurring theme between them now that they’re trapped in space together. It was such an unnecessary waste of a fascinating and vibrant character. For a story that was so intensely focused on presenting an inclusive and progressive vision of Doctor Who, fridging a black woman in the very first episode was an egregious betrayal.

The one caveat here is that Grace was described in early press releases as a “returning character,” which seems to imply that she will be in future episodes. I suspect that she’ll be seen in flashbacks, or that the TARDIS team will travel back in time and see her at an earlier point in her life (or it was a deliberate misdirection and Grace won’t be seen again). But it is possible that Grace’s death will somehow be reversed. I would appreciate that. However, bringing Grace back to life won’t erase the damage that’s been done. Her death will still have been used to motivate Ryan and Graham. And it will still have been a disappointing moment in what should have been a fresh start for weary fans.

#Doctor Who #The Woman Who Fell To Earth #Jodie Whittaker #Thirteenth Doctor #Series 11 #Reviews

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berniesrevolution · 6 years ago

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What follows are excerpts from Working People, a podcast by Maximilian Alvarez in which ordinary people talk about their lives, jobs, struggles, and aspirations. These excerpts accompany Max’s essay “Can The Working Class Speak?”

JESUS ALVAREZ on losing everything, driving for Uber

Maximilian Alverez:

I’m curious to know, because we talked about it a lot over this conversation, and you’ve lived such an interesting life, and have come such a long way from that garage in Guadalajara, when your mom passed away, when you were six. And so, jumping closer to the present, you’ve said a number of times that the Great Recession that really kind of hit in 2008, and the after effects that we’re still dealing with in significant ways, that this was kind of the real — this was the big meteor type of event, for you, for our family, and for a lot of working families around the country, and around the world. I guess, how did that translate on the real estate side that you were on?

Jesus Alverez:

That’s been, I think, to me, the most frustrating portion, that I worked all these years in real estate to provide, and have always been able to. When the real estate market crashed, unfortunately, I tell people that never in a million years would I think that I’d be one of the casualties, because I handled property owned by the banks, the bank owned properties and stuff like that. So never in a million years did I think that our family would be one of the casualties. But as it turned out, when the market crashed, we lost some rental property, we lost the office building that I was a partner in. The business crashed, Mom’s business crashed, and as you know, we ended up losing our house. And that is super hard to get over, to think that we worked so hard to achieve whatever status we have. To have it all — it’s like water going down your arms, dripping at your elbows [laughs]. The only way I can describe it is “it’s all gone, it’s disappeared.” And it’s been tough to get back, really tough mentally. Because no one wants to talk about what happens personally, ourselves included. It’s depressing, it’s embarrassment, all that kind of stuff. And I was surprised that when we went through all of this, everybody was too busy with their lives. Nobody really reached out to see where we were at, or throw us a lifeboat or whatever. But I realized, every family’s got to survive. But having gone through all of this, having achieved what I thought was success, and then to have it all go away, and now kind of re-starting, I think it’s a big thing, swallowing my pride, to go back out there and start all over. But we still have our health, we’re still here. I always look at it as though I am a boxer — we’re still in the ring. I’m old and I’m fat, but I’m like George Foreman. I still got a good overhand right… I’m hoping to land a good right on a good deal, and get us started back up. Which I think it will. I’ve got to call my mom again.

But it’s interesting, now I’m driving a little bit for Uber. And when I went to apply or whatever, a lot of the people I saw were people my age, or older. And statistics show that a lot of people driving, or these kinds of things, are people who need secondary, or people who have lost a lot of stuff. I always thought it was just going to be the younger people, but no, it’s a lot of people my age or older, and it’s sad. As I talk to a lot of the passengers, interesting when I talk to a lot of them, because I’m pretty good at getting the conversation going now, and so I talked to several who have lost their house or whatever. And I’m thinking man, they’ve gone through the same thing, and I can relate to the emotions they went through, the depression. I think the main thing for me is that I realized is that we went through some depression. And so we’re finally, I think, over that curve, and we’re working our way back up. But I think unless you go through something like that, it’s really hard. And maybe we didn’t reach out for the help that we should have.

[…] Just two days ago, I picked up a lady at a restaurant. She was about my age, and we start talking. She’s from Mexico. And we started talking about how when she got married, her husband left the family to come to the United States, so he could try to find a job to provide. I think she said it was 1984 and he was making $3 an hour, sending the money back. And she was trying to raise I think three kids down there with the goal of eventually bringing them over. And then eventually, they were able to save enough and stuff for them to come over. But then one of the sons didn’t want to come to the United States, he wanted to stay in Mexico or whatever. It’s a little bit sad how our families get torn up. Torn up just trying for betterment, the Mexican culture or whatever. That’s what people don’t realize. We don’t want to just come over to come over and take jobs. It’s for survival. Any family would do the same thing just to provide for their family, which is hard. Nobody wants to leave their family behind. But if it was turned around to the other cultures, they would do the same thing. They would do whatever they have to do to provide for their family. And that’s the part they don’t talk about. We’re not trying to do anything that nobody else would do. We’re just trying to provide for your families, even at the tough part of ripping the families apart. Because there’s unfortunately there’s not enough economics in Mexico or other countries to provide. People don’t want to split their families up just to do it. And it’s sad when I talk to some of these people, and this lady. She’s gone through a lot. Her family had been split. Her husband is over here, she’s over there in Mexico trying to raise the kids and stuff like that, and it’s like, man. We all got our stories, and a lot of those like that.

LADONNA BRAVE BULL ALLARD on survival

LBBA:

I am the first in my family to ever attend college, and that was through the love and grace of my grandma. I am the first in my family to graduate college. My sister was second. And all that I learned going to school was “America needs to be educated.” We need to know the truth of what is really happening here. We need to start looking at our economics, because right now, my reality: I am a widow. I live on a widow’s benefit. It’s barely enough to make my monthly payments. I have to figure out how to, at 63 years old, how to make a little extra money to get all my bills paid. I plant my own garden. I gather roots and berries, and prepare for winter. I have a wood stove, so we gather wood. But at 63 years old, there are other people who are sitting back, in their retirement, having a very comfortable life. That is not our reality. It is not how we live. When we have people here on the reservation living without electricity, without running water — people are hauling their water — we live in a different world than the rest of America, our own home, our own homeland, where the roots grow out of our feet. Where we can tell the history of this land for thousands and thousands of years. To be pushed until America makes us invisible. And so I am pushing back. I am saying, “I am alive. We are still here.” We have our hands out saying, “let us teach you how to live on this land. Let us teach you how to respect the water. Let us teach you how to respect the land. We can do this for the betterment of the world, we do this so your grandchildren’s grandchildren can drink clear, clean water.” We are standing here offering our help.

We have never ever been an aggressor, we have only been defenders of this land. And we will continue to defend the land and the water. So growing up, that is how I grew up. I grew up a very difficult Indian childhood. Foster homes. Boarding schools. My two younger brothers were farmed out to a farm, and they were able to return home. Does America really know their own history, their own background?

Maximilian Alverez:

I really don’t think that many do. I’m so gripped by everything that you’re saying. Not only your work as a historian, but as you’re saying, the very kind of way of life, sustainable, communal way of life, these forms of knowledge that, you said, you have to teach the rest of America, even though the rest of America not only doesn’t know, but often doesn’t even see that these forms of living, that these communities are even there. So it seemed that for a moment, over the past few years, that with the No DAPL movement, that more Americans were starting to learn. Do you feel that — and you started by saying what a lot of people around the country who are protesting the separation of families at the border, is that this has been going on in Native communities for centuries.

LBBA:

Since 1492.

(Continue Reading)

#politics #the left #current affairs #working class #economic inequality #poverty

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dailyaudiobible · 6 years ago

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06/07/2019 DAB Transcript

1 Kings 2:1-3:2, Acts 5:1-42, Psalms 125:1-5, Proverbs 16:25

Today is the 7…I was gonna say 17th…but it’s the 7th day…I don’t even know where the 17th came from. Let's just start this over. Today is the 7th day of June. Welcome to the Daily Audio Bible. I am Brian. It is a pleasure, it is an honor, and it is a joy, and really it's remarkable that we can get together like this every single day, let God's works word speak to us, and know that we’re not on this journey alone. So, welcome to today. It’s great be here with you. We began the book of first Kings yesterday, which simply picked up where we left off at the end of second Samuel. So, first Samuel dealt basically with King Saul's life. Second Samuel, for the most part, dealt with King David's life and now we are at the end of King David's life and his son Solomon has been made King and we noticed some drama in Solomon becoming King. This is kind of become a common thread in David's family. And we’ll pick up the story where we left off yesterday. We’re reading from the New Living Translation this week. Today, first Kings chapter 2 verse 1 through 3 verse 2.

Commentary:

Okay. So, from our time in first Kings we said goodbye to King David and we've been traveling with King David for quite a while now. So, we’re saying goodbye to somebody we got to know pretty well. We saw that the transfer of power to his son Solomon did not go smoothly and we also saw that Solomon’s gonne need more than political alliances and smarts to rule and this is becoming very clear to him.

In the book of Acts we continue to see the gospel move forward. So, every day, people were being taught in the temple complex near a place called Solomon's Colonnade. People were finding healing and the believers were all held in high regard even though a lot of people who respected them kept their distance, right, and stayed on the sidelines because they were afraid of the religious leaders. And for good reason. The religious leaders were envious over the momentum Jesus message continued to gain. So, they through the apostles in jail. An angel freed the apostles who went right back to sharing the Good News. And, so, the Sanhedrin rearrested them and dragged them before the high priest, right? “I gave you strict orders. Don't ever talk about this guy again. And instead of obeying us you filled Jerusalem with all of these words about Jesus”, right? And Peter’s like, “but who are we supposed to obey here? Like, we have to obey God.” And then he took the chance. He had to share the gospel with the most revered of Israel's religious leaders. And it’s so interesting because they behaved in the same way they had behaved with Jesus. Like if we remember Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead, I mean, once word got to Jerusalem their response was to get together in a meeting like this and figure out how to kill Jesus. And, so, that's exactly what they were trying to do with the apostles, figure out how to get rid of them too except for one person named Gamaliel who as one of the leading Pharisees and respected by all according to the book of Acts. One of his students, as we will find out when we get to his writings, one of his students was another Pharisee named Saul. Saul hated what was going on with this uprising, this Jesus thing. He hated it. He wanted to stamp it out. He had no idea he was on a collision course with a faith that would completely transform him from the Pharisee Saul to the apostle Paul. And, so, we kind of ended today's reading with Gamaliel, who had been the instructor, one of the instructors for the apostle Paul, the Pharisee, Saul. He said, “my advice is to leave them alone because…basically because if there's no energy behind this it's going to dissipate and go away but if God is behind this there's nothing you can do to stop it. And you might find yourself proposing God.” So, we should take note here that in surprising ways God is protecting those who chose to obey Him in spite of the intimidation and this continues to give us this firsthand look at how it was this faith took root after Jesus ascended to the Father, This people empowered by the Holy Spirit became passionate witnesses, and they didn't care what they had to go through to bring light into the darkness, and we’ll continue to observe that as we continue our journey through the book of Acts.

Prayer:

Father, we thank You for Your word and we thank You for all of its different facets and complexions, the different ways that it speaks to us. We thank You for the stories of our spiritual ancestors who have gone before us paving the way for things that we just take for granted now. So, we thank You for allowing us to read their stories and enter into their stories. We also thank You that we have a story that we are telling and it's a continuation of the same story. And even as they paved the way for us we are paving the way for those who will come after us now and everything matters and it's important. And, so, as we enjoy the stories of the formation of the early church we ask that You seal them in our hearts because we’re telling the same story. Come Holy Spirit we pray. In the name of Jesus, we ask. Amen.

Announcements:

dailyaudiobible.com is the website, of course, it’s home base, it is how you stay tuned and stay connected to what's happening.

And what we've been announcing here, what were excited about is the upcoming event over Labor Day weekend, that’s August 31st through September 2nd and we’ll be doing our second annual global campfire Family Reunion. We had a fantastic…so much fun last year doing it because we just didn't know…we thought maybe we’d just do it…see what happened but there was so much energy, so much excitement about doing it again that we are and we had to find a place that we could handle more people and we did, up on the lake, not too far from the airport, very convenient to Nashville. I mean it's beautiful and there's just tons to do out there. Like, there’s ziplines, ballfields. There’s the lake. So, canoeing and this giant slide into the water and volleyball and there’s a climbing wall a soccer field…anything…I mean…it's just amazing…there’s a ton of stuff to do out there. So, come with your family. There are some huge bunkhouses for a family or maybe a couple of families get together. There are bathrooms in them and everything. There’s yurts. There’s like a little yurt village. And last year we did this where if you kind of coming alone or just coming with a couple of people maybe you just want to grab a bunk in the men's bunkhouse or the women's bunkhouse. And there’s spots there. You can bring your RV and camp, or you can tent camp. It's just a place to come with the family, play together, make friendships together, deepen relationships together all at the global campfire Family Reunion 2019. And, so, you can get all the details at dailyaudiobible.com in the Initiatives section. Just look for Family Reunion 2019 and all the details will be there and you can register and we’ll see you soon.

If you want to partner with the Daily Audio Bible, you can do that at dailyaudiobible.com as well. There’s a link that lives on the homepage. Thank you. If you’re using the Daily Audio Bible app, you can press the Give button in the upper right-hand corner or the mailing address is PO Box 1996 Spring Hill Tennessee 37174.

And, as always, if you have a prayer request or comment, 877-942-4253 is the number to dial.

And that is it for today. I'm Brian I love you and I'll be waiting for you here tomorrow.

Community Prayer and Praise:

Hi Daily Audio Bible, this is Amber I’m calling from Illinois and today is June 5th and today I’m asking prayer for myself. I’m just kind of in a point in my life where I feel like things are like a fog if that makes sense at all. I work in the trucking industry. In August it will be four years since I made this adventure and when I say, work in trucking, I have never ever in my life worked for an industry where people are so wicked and unruly. Like, on a daily basis I get verbally abused, called out of my name and our management does nothing about it. They just say, “suck it up and move on and to take it personal.” But it’s hard not to take things personal when people are downright calling you the b word or the c word. It’s hard to not take that personally because intentionally somebody call me out on my name not matter if you’re frustrated or not. And lately I’ve been really feeling burnt out of my job. Like I’m grateful to have a job, don’t get the wrong but some days it’s just mentally draining, and I feel like I just…I can’t do this anymore. So, I’m just kind of at the crossroads where maybe I need to do something else or what. But…I don’t want to get emotional. But a position for another department came up and unfortunately, I wasn’t notified about it, so I was unable to apply and now it’s too late and it’s just…it’s very displeasing. I try to think of it as, you know, something that I really wanted. It may not be something that…

Hi Daily Audio Bible, good morning, this is Grace from Tampa. I’m calling…I want to thank God for all of you. It’s May…no it’s June 5th and I just listened to the June 5th podcast and Brian talked about the notion that, in the book of Acts, Peter says, “why…why do you consider this strange?” And I also heard a prayer request for a little boy who is going through surgery and I thought it was perfect timing. I tend not to call because I worry about sounding a little clumsy in my prayers, but I thought that it was perfect that those two…that the message today and that prayer request came in on the same day. So, Lord God we command healing for that little boy, that little boy who is undergoing surgery in Denver Lord God. I thank You that You love the little children, You love them so much Lord God and that You hold them close. And, so, Lord God, I thank You for complete and total healing for the little boy, that this will be a testimony, that when he is 8 and 10 and a teenager and a grown man Lord God that he can look back and see that You had Your hand on him from the very beginning Lord God. So, thank you Daily Audio Bible. I consider you all praying for me even when I don’t call in as often as I need too. I thank you all for praying for me and I’m praying for every single one of you. I love you all. Bye.

Hi, this is Vicky from Arizona and I’m just calling because I am so encouraged to hear everybody’s prayer requests this morning. There was a gentleman that called in that had gone through divorce who had been involved in drug addiction and he just said when he heard this he just felt love from everybody. And that’s what I feel. I was like, there’s so many people when they call in you just feel the love that we are, you know, a family. And God really has blessed me to be a part of this and I am just so grateful and so thankful for Brian and for everybody that prays on a daily…or just whenever you feel like it because I know that God does hear our prayers collectively and individually and He just is such a good God. And I am praying for myself today for God just to encourage me because I do feel discouraged. I feel like I need more, more of God, more…you know, they said that signs and wonders will follow those that believe and that’s what I want. I’m just hungry for more of God to move in my life and my situation. I pray for people, that God would…that I would see things happening because I feel like we’re living in an age that we have to have an expectancy and God just move because it’s our faith that moves Him. So, I’m praying for more, whatever that is, more of God, more expectancy, more joy, more peace, more of everything that Jesus died to give me because I know that is…I’m just hungry and He said that He will fill us. So, I am seeking Him…

Good morning Daily Audio Bible family, my name is Tammy from Canada. I am so thankful for all of you. I’m new to Daily Audio Bible but I am so thankful to hear your voices and hear how you’re all growing and praying for each other and that I can be part of this family. I called in about a month ago about my daughter Chantel, she’s 23 and she’s been struggling going through anxiety and depression and she’s withdrawing from her schooling and she’s been struggling with life. And I asked for prayer. I have a praise report. It’s only a month but she’s doing so much better and I truly believe it’s the prayers of the saints. She has interest in life now and hope but still has a ways to go and I guess that’s why I’m calling. She needs to move at the end of the month, so June 30th and she needs to find a place to stay, a safe place, a place where she can grow and be around healthy people. And, so, I ask that you would pray that God would provide a place and also provision because she really doesn’t have any…doesn’t have any money at the moment, doesn’t have a job and withdrew from school so her funds from schooling are not available to her. So, she really…I pray that God will just really show her his love and provision and in a beautiful place. I thank you so much. I thank you to know that you are there praying. That just helps my momma heart, that I’m not going it alone. So, thank you so much Daily Audio Bible family. God bless you all. Bye for now.

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jmspttt · 6 years ago

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Excarnational Christianity

It’s a funny thing growing up in the church. All my life I have been a part of various southern Californian, non-denominational, evangelical churches. These are all beautiful communities full of people who, to the best of my knowledge, have the purest intentions and are using all the tools that they possess to love and serve God. I love all the people I have grown up with and been shaped by; I owe so much to them! In the last few years however I have experienced a trend in christian culture that is described by philosopher and theologian Charles Taylor as “Excarnation”. I do not want to throw stones, so I will start and probably end with the experience of my own life of faith.

I am a 27 year old life long male evangelical who was naturally bound for the now cliche path of deconstruction. I had all the usual doubts and questions that people do growing up in conservative western christianity. How does the problem of evil, free will/god’s sovereignty, the trinity and the existence of hell work? Obviously these are old questions that Christ followers have been thinking through for a long time, but I thought they were profound and unusual questions to ask. After not having intuitive answers to these questions and being plagued by the general existential anxiety of being a teenager, I slowly became more and more open to christian thought, and thought in general, outside of my narrow tradition. I remember the first time I stumbled upon Tumblr accounts of quotes from the Desert Fathers, mystics of the greek orthodox, and catholic philosophers, incredible! I had no idea the contemplative and spiritual practices that were available. I remember starting to read The Practice of the Presence of God and feeling discouraged because I couldn’t think of how such a beautiful life was possible. Unfortunately this only scratched the surface and planted a seed. At the time I didn’t have the motivation or drive to really seriously dive into the theology of these christian traditions. It was easier at the time to just let the questions unsettle my faith than to actually take them head on and seek God in them. Much of the last four or five years has been a lot of feeling resigned to having a sort of halfway faith in which I lived with some of the ideas but without much of the actual experience of a life with God.

As I became more and more used this halfway-ness, it became easier and easier to question all of it. What are ideas without experience? I think that it is impossible to be proven into believing something that is so ethereal and abstract as a metaphysic of God as a personal being who has a real affect on the material world. Around 2013-14, as this became more and more normal, I also stumbled into the world of podcasts. At the time I was still adjusting to the life of an electrician and podcasts became a welcome companion. I became familiar with a whole spectrum of thinkers on all variety of topics, from the super conservative to the super liberal, the mystics as well as the materialists and the whole spectrum of “Godly” to “Worldly”. It’s hard to over exaggerate the variety here. I am thankful for the thousands of hours I have listened to the now well known christian deconstructionists, the new atheists and the cast of characters known as The Intellectual Dark Web. These were all people I was excited to learn from. I learned how I could bend my faith and question most of our christian ethics to fit within the materialist, secular lenses I had become versed in. Please don’t misunderstand me, I am still trying to find the right language for these shifts in my life. I say materialist and secular in the most neutral tone possible, without any of the vitriol I remember hearing the conservative culture of my childhood condemn the best music out there as “worldly” and “secular”. I simply mean I became more and more comfortable with a faith-less or unspiritual lens of viewing my own christian faith. My faith became less and less a force that shaped me, and more and more something I just thought that I possessed in a distinct compartment of my life. Looking back I think that is the critical difference. I maintained all the proper ideological commitments to my faith, but lacked all experience of it. I understood that emotions and experience are completely arbitrary paradigms and thus a lack of these was not a real reason to seek a new way of thinking. Isn’t that what part of faith? Believing without feeling? I told myself I shouldn’t worry too much what I feel but I should be concerned with having right belief and right action.

This brings me to the term Excarnation. I had never heard of this concept before until reading James K.A. Smith’s book “How (Not) to Be Secular”. The book is a commentary and guide to a much larger work by Charles Taylor called “The Secular Age”. That is book is over 800 pages and supposedly very challenging so I opted for the guide. In the book Smith highlights what Taylor calls Excarnation:

“The process by which religion (and christianity in particular) is dis-embodied and de-ritualized, turned into a “belief system.” Contra incarnation, sacramental spirituality.”

I won’t be able to do this concept justice entirely on my own so I would really recommend picking up the book or listening on audible. My takeaway though was that this concept describes perfectly the feelings I have experienced in my life of faith. I have felt the movement towards excarnational christianity when our faith is made more into a call to serve, a set of ideas, or a moral code instead of an experienced way of believing in and being shaped by the transcendent reality of God.

What am I even saying?

I realize at this point I am starting to sound very highfalutin (I can’t believe that is actually a word). So what do I mean by all this? I simply believe that as my experience of faith inevitably lost the naive confidence of fundamentalism and conservative belief, it became open to all sorts of serious legitimate criticism. This shift allowed for the process of deconstruction to begin and thus a willingness to question how sound all my beliefs were. This sort of questioning coupled with a commitment to not leave a community of faith then disrobed my lived experience of the faith of any sort of transcendence. Again I fear that sentence was ridiculous. What I mean is the weekly church service as well as my participation in our christian community ceased to be anything special or transcendent, but instead became as hollow or ordinary as any other social gathering. I found that when the fundamentals of spirituality are questionable or seem untrustworthy all the magic leaves. At that point it feels impossible to expect an experience of faith, much less one that could actually change what my feelings or desires are inside my mind and my heart and by that change, create a real change in my way of life.

I would not be so bold as to state that this is happening to many other people, but I also don’t think I am all that special or unique so I would like to propose that as a question. Have you experienced this sort of shift in thinking or experience? Does Taylor’s concept of excarnation resonate at all with you? I am grateful to Taylor and Smith for giving me the framework to articulate what I think is a real, personal phenomenon. I have felt and experienced this thing, but I have not had the right language to explain or convey what this internal shifting feels like. I think we all know how frustrating to feel something and understand and not know how to articulate it.

I could, and might eventually, write a lot of strongly worded paragraphs on the specifics of how disenchanted and uninspiring I, and maybe an entire generation of believers, feel that mainstream western evangelical christian faith is, but I am worried that I would veer off into uncharitable waters. My intention and hope is that I have described what that disenchantment and excarnation feels like on personal experiential level. I am still trying to untangle what was self imposed and what was externally caused in that whole process. On the constructive side, I cannot describer how grateful I am though that I have found a whole set of writers and preachers that have renewed my life of faith and commitment to the church. There are really, really good and sincere thinkers and communities of people who are trying to do the good and hard work of living as “Apprentices of Jesus” and all it entails.

To close, I would like to offer a bit of G.K. Chesterton’s Orthodoxy:

“When I fancied that I stood alone I was really in the ridiculous position of being backed up by all Christendom. It may be, Heaven forgive me, that I did try to be original; but I only succeeded in inventing all by myself an inferior copy of the existing traditions of civilized religion...I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy.”

#Christianity #christian life #life of faith #theology #christiantheology #christianblog #theologyblog #Charles taylor #James K.A. Smith #Secularism #spiritual formation

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dropintomanga · 7 years ago

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A State of the Manga Mind Address

For as long as I can remember, I preferred reading manga over watching anime. Mostly because of the lack of fillers and censorship. But now I may have a new reason to prefer manga. Earlier this year, Anime Feminist interviewed a former Aoikgahara (the infamous "suicide forest" in Japan) volunteer about coverage of mental illness in anime and manga. The interview opened up my eyes about why I don't enjoy as much anime as I used to and how manga continues to intrigue me.

The interview with the volunteer, whose name is Makoto Kageyama, goes in-depth over their experiences with mental health, volunteering at Aokigahara, Japan's views on mental health, and their concerns over how mental illness is portrayed in anime compared to manga. They talked about the ever-popular trope where love and friendship save the day.

“I will be honest, I don’t like the stories where the issue gets solved magically with the power of love and friendship, it’s like a lazy way to solve things. Usually in anime, they make the issues look light or don’t explain them properly. Most of the stuff is “X-chan is sad (when clearly depressed and with a mental issue), we will bake this cake and they will see they are not alone and they will be cured from the sadness.”

And after that, the issue is never mentioned again and magically X-chan is cured. Also, in media where a character does get mental health care, they are shown as crazy and somehow that gives them a bad image like only crazy people go to get help for mental health.

That makes sad even though I’m an avid anime consumer. That’s why sometimes I stick more to manga in that sense.”

Kageyama later talks about hikikomori portrayals in anime versus real-life. They explain that even though hikikomori may get out of their shell, they still have trouble re-adjusting to people and it's a gradual process. Kageyama also points out that hikikomori being a "moe" trait in anime is a double-edged sword. They wonder about whether entertainment should triumph over information.

“I know anime is supposed to make you happy again; I mean, that’s the way it’s sold. But still, it could also be good for media to help others and there’s few anime that can do that. Like I said before, there’s more manga about mental health issues than anime.”

With that said, here’s some thoughts I have about some anime/manga series with regards to mental health coverage/inspiration.

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First off, I didn't enjoy the A Silent Voice anime movie's ending. It felt a bit too optimistic and summed up Kageyama's thoughts about anime sometimes. The movie ending was basically "Oh hey, there's friendship tension. But it's okay, with the power of love, we're all friends again!" The manga ending had all the characters on uncertain paths regarding their futures. They weren't as chummy with each other as before. It was much more realistic. Someone once mentioned to me that this is an effect of KyoAni making the movie. The ending was a "happy fantasy" that may have irked fans of the manga.

I don't want My Lesbian Experience with Loneliness and My Solo Exchange Diary to become anime. Both are great introductions into the mental instability of a young adult, but they are better suited for live-action. I'm sure fans would love anime adaptations of both memoirs. It's just that the messages the author wanted to bring out may be filtered in a way that doesn't do her works justice.

I have second thoughts about Takano Ichigo's orange. While I do like the series' approach to depression and suicide, I later realize that the series promotes love and friendship as the complete solution to all of one's inner trauma. Yes, teenagers are smarter than you think, but adults still have an edge due to wisdom gained from years of experience.

I also find Naho being the "chosen one" to save Kakeru a bad lesson to teach young women interested in romance. It's impossible to cater to every demand and need of a person. After listening to a podcast about why marriage is harder in modern life, I want people to be realistic about love. People expecting partners to be everything (best friend/lover/life coach/etc.) to them end up becoming frustrated with life.

Shonen series are inspirational to many fans and I still think they are worth following. Friendship, hard work, and victory still matter to a certain extent. Shonen promotes social resilience, the ability to stay calm in times of adversity with help of role models along the way. Having meaningful social connections is an important part of becoming a mentally healthy individual. It's just that some fans may take lessons from shonen in the wrong way.

They tend to like shonen (particularly anime adaptations of popular battle series) because of the focus on self-improvement and not making excuses in order to succeed. I feel as if the "friendship" aspect is ignored a great deal. In a way, shonen-style thinking can lead to a bad case of either victim blaming, deep shame, or both in the same time. Life doesn't have that element of "control" that shonen series incorporate well.

Speaking of the lack of control, Berserk and all of its cruel uncertainty makes it one of the most inspiring manga series despite its offensive nature. I will talk about this in a future post. It’s so unfortunate that the studio behind the new anime adaptations of the series overshadowed the richness of Guts’ continued journey with their obsession with CGI animation that looked awkward.

I need to get into March Comes in Like a Lion because of the constant praise from mangaka and fans. Kageyama mentions that they were surprised it got animated, but liked how the anime didn't shy away from the heavy stuff. It gives Kageyama hope for future anime series that can portray mental illness in an effective manner. The fact that March Comes in Like a Lion captures thoughts and feelings I have is something that should be on my list after years of hearing about it.

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With that said, I did get a chance to speak to Kageyama on Twitter a short while after the interview. I asked them about anime and what anime studios can do better in portraying mental health in a realistic light. I also asked them about what would get more Western fans to read manga. This is what they told me.

“I think the problem is that Western audiences are more lazy when it comes to reading manga. Since in Japan, life is always on the move and manga/books are one of the best companions during your trips to work or school. Manga culture is kinda like your companion during mornings, while anime is your companion during afternoons.

If you think about it, most anime air during the afternoon. Mostly because people come back from work and school and they don’t feel like reading. So in a way, it’s more balanced out.

Meanwhile, life in the West is much different. People are more "social in a wrong way” if you don’t mind me adding. One thing I learned from living abroad is that people try to find more comfort in social media, games and anime. They then become lazy or disinterested in reading manga. I also realize that people tend to be more depressed because of the internet too.

I think that if manga was promoted better in the West, especially in a way that the possible reader could say “I can relate to this”, people would read more manga. Especially because of the so-called “risky topics” I keep mentioning, which are not risky. They are just human topics and nowadays people from both Japan and the West are afraid to talk and see humanity, but at the same time, they crave for it."

There’s so many responses I have towards toward this, but Kageyama is right to a certain extent. People in the West slowly gravitate away from books towards television as they get older. My boss said one of her New Year’s resolutions this year was to read a new book every month. I don’t know how far she’s gotten into it, but since most resolutions don’t end well, maybe she’s given up on it.

Reading for pleasure is such an anomaly in my part of the world since schools over here condition people when they are young that reading is supposed to be boring. While manga and graphic novel sales are making gains in the U.S., books are not selling well in general.

And regarding why people reject and crave humanity, that's because of the randomness and luck involved in getting it. People want to be sure that things will have a happy ending. That's what they expect, when there is no guarantee that life will go as planned. Anime, in a way, reduces randomness to ease the minds of fans. Manga is all about embracing randomness and the sheer amount of series and topics covered, when compared to anime, attest to that.

Yeah, randomness is bad, but it can lead to wonderful realizations such as appreciating manga for what it is - a medium for the kind of stories that need to be told and told in a way that shows people how human we really are. Learning about the interview with Kageyama was a random stroke of luck in my favor and i felt better for it.

There are comics out there that talk about mental illness. Graphic novels are raw and gritty. They’re a great medium to visualize whatever thoughts anyone has.

I’m not going to criticize anime fans for only sticking to anime because I like seeing characters in motion as much as anyone. I also think there’s a lot of low-quality manga out there. Reading is a big investment of one’s time and in some cases, a luxury. But if you have a favorite manga-to-anime adaptation that left you feeling disappointed and you never read the source material, the original manga can help alleviate your disappointment. The intimacy of reading a manga through the lens of the original creator is an experience that can move you because manga is almost like a personal journal of one’s thoughts, feelings, and ideals made larger through imagination.

For someone craving humanity, manga is a certain start that can lead to a better state of mind.

If you would like to talk to Kageyama about all things mental health-related in Japan, you can contact them on Twitter at @kurietachan.

#manga #mental health #psychology #humanity #mental illness

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borbersk · 2 years ago

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So, it's reasons you want!? Well, I have plenty of better things to do, but this is the Internet so we all know I'm playing for maximum pimento wastage. Beware potential minor spoilers, but I'll try and avoid it.

The vanishing act is a hilarious drama that managed to do what Ricky Gervais wishes he could. It made a pitiful, impolite, insecure, dislikable character funny, and did I in such a way that you find yourself rooting for this detestable little bastard even though I you ever actually met him you would hope it was the last time. This got me through a week and a half of being shut in a room in the Spanish heat missing my friends, and the plane rides to and from. And the ending was fucking unbelievable. The perfect blend of foreshadowed and surprising

The beacon holds a special place in my heart. It's not the best audiodrama out there by any means but that doesn't mean it's not good. It wraps you in a blanket of what I (as an irishman who watched someone play life is strange and then read the comics and knows nothing about this type of thing beyond that) call gay American west coast indie culture. Like, the main character feels like her older, more mature sister sang Jimmy by moriarty. The characters all feel like they have thir own problems and like that makes then human. The lore feels like something I used to write about my friends when I was fantasising about going on adventures and honestly it doesn't fit the format. Audiodrama just isn't the right choice for what they were attempting, but that makes up for itself as audiodrama was the only way this project would be as good as it is. The whole thing radiates diy project/labour of love energy, and that's what appeals to me

The absolute reverse of this is the lovecraft investigations. This is the BBC going back to their radio broadcasting days and showing us that what they do best is still done best by them. The actors, writers, and sound engineers are all on-fucking-point and while it lacks a certain amount of humanising grit in the gears that's a small price to pay for what is the audiodrama equivalent of something like taboo or cursed (look, I'm not usually one to use a Netflix original as an example of good media but they were some good watching. We need more dark fantasy) in that it's professionally made, unfortunately advertised, and underappreciated in the mainstream

Going back to the good indie shit, tapes from beyond is one of my all time favourite audiodramas which is saying a lot. This psychological fuckery gets to me in the same way as the first episode of the magnus archives did. But whereas the magnus archives relatively quickly turned into a more monster of the week thing for me with some amazing horror thrown in, this one stays thrilling if not actually scary throughout. I'll admit some of the more important plot points are more predictable than I'd like and... honestly kinda shit, and the believability of the meta subplot dissolves sooner than it could've, but the bulk of it is nearly perfect. It's just those few moments that brings it down. And all in all it's a magical show that does something I've seen attempted so many times before, but actually does it well, which is rarer than you may think

Last in my top five audiodramas that you haven't already heard would have to be brimstone Valley mall. It's hard for me to describe a comedy podcast without just saying "it's funny", but this is so much more than just a comedy podcast. There are plots upon subplots all held together by some of the funniest scenes you'll get in the format. This is one of the two podcasts that got my boyfriend into them. He sent me a voice message after listening to the last episode frustrated by the fact that there was no more to it. The characters are all compelling, interesting, fleshed-out, and yet wacky. This one is harder to accurately describe without spoilers, so I'ma just shut up and let you listen to it and form your own opinion

My most popular post since coming back is about recommending podcasts.

Good and valid. Please keep recommend g me your favorite podcasts that are macabre yet funny, dark and brooding, mysterious and gruesome, yet again still light in some places.

Some of my faves, throughout the years:

The Magnus Archives

The Amelia Project

The White Vault

WTNV

Currently on my To-Listen list:

Wolf359

Silt Verses

Archive 81

The Bright Sessions

If you can pitch it to me, I'd very very very very much appreciate it. Just saying 'I like this' doesn't inform me on *why* you like it, and I'm more interested in why you like it versus a one sentence plot summary. Thank you in advance to anyone who recs!!!!

If you'd like me to yell at you when I listen, please let me know. I love yelling at people when I'm listening to something they really enjoy :)

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intergalactic-zoo · 4 years ago

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I decided, apropos of nothing, to put on Joss Whedon's Zack Snyder's "Justice League" while doing some work today. I discussed the movie when it came out eleventy billion years ago, and thought it was fine. It's not good, but grading on the curve of every DCEU movie up to that point, it was a solid B-. Sitting in 2021, I remember bits and pieces of it—Steppenwolf looking like he stepped out of an XBox 360 cutscene, the decent cell phone video of Superman that was marred by the terrible attempt to CGI out Cavill's moustache, all the characters sounding like their rough counterparts in "The Avengers"—but not a lot of details.

Obviously the intervening years have altered my perspective on the film, both through the revelations about the behind-the-scenes racism and abuse and through the fanatical and also frequently abusive behavior of the fans clamoring for this version of the film, which absolutely definitely existed and was finished years ago and also needed an additional $70 million dollars and reshoots to complete.

That perspective has not been altered for the better.

Against my better judgment, I'm going to watch the Snyder Cut sometime, probably this weekend, so I figured it'd be good to see how it deviates from the theatrical release, like I did for the Lester and Donner cuts of "Superman II" so very long ago. I don't expect to enjoy either one; my feelings on the superhero movies of Zack Snyder are well-documented, and even under the best circumstances, four hours is too @#%*$! long for a superhero movie. But four hours of nihilistic spite dressed up in cinematic deepities and CGI with a sepia-toned overlay is unlikely to be the best of circumstances.

Will it be better than two hours of the extremely generic re-skinned "Avengers: Age of Ultron" that got released to theaters? There's only one way to find out!

Boy, the New 52-ass character designs in the DC logo opening sure didn't age well. When was Rebirth, like, the year before?

Pretty neat that it's got Mogo and Jessica Cruz in there, though.

That cell phone scene was a lot better in my memory. Like, the kids with a podcast are kind of charming, but I remembered it being a good Superman moment, when it's really just kind of nothing. Certainly not enough to justify the extremely bad CGI. And is the negative space on the S-shield supposed to look so gray?

Gotham City looks like the background of a Robert Rodriguez movie, but I actually like it here. It feels grimy and a little uncanny, the way Gotham should. A big building with "JANUS" on it in glowing letters and big coal chimneys out of Victorian London are what I want to see in Gotham, along with copious brooding gargoyles and enormous iron statues of Greek gods that you could drive a car on.

A building that is continually being robbed by either Two-Face or Maxie Zeus

"Batman Forever," for comparison

Ben Affleck's Batman rasp is at least as silly as Christian Bale's. Batman can just talk in a voice, my dudes. I watched bits of "Batman & Robin" and "Batman Forever" to track down the right screenshots, and it's so much better when Batman is a guy with a deep voice rather than a guy who sounds like he's gargling gravel and sand.

The crook asking "where does that leave us?" because Superman's dead is a little weird given that Superman was a public figure in this universe for literally a year and a half. In 2021, it's a bit like asking how we could go on if Billie Eilish died, except Billie Eilish hasn't, to my knowledge, ever been involved in a fight that leveled a major city.

The maudlin mourning sequence probably should have come before Batman backflipped over a snarling Kirby monster and "Mindhunter's" Holt McCallany hopped around on a rooftop, because I laughed out loud at the unhoused person's "I Tried" sign and I do not think that was the intended reaction.

And then the Leonard Cohen cover gives way to the Danny Elfman score, and it sounds like "Batman" '89 again. God, this movie really is a mess.

I appreciate Wonder Woman explaining her powers like she's in a Chris Claremont comic. How long until we get a superhero movie with a proper reference caption? I just want to see a box in "Into the Spider-Verse 2" that says "*It happened in Spectacular Spider-Man #206, True Believers!"

I really wish superhero movies could stop having the scene where superheroes talk about how stupid superheroes are. It feels so self-conscious. Just embrace the concept without being ashamed of it, please.

I also wish we could have dialogue less on the nose than everything Henry Allen says. He talks exclusively in clichés about movement—"running in circles," "standing still," "find your own path." We get it, he's talking to the Flash.

I keep forgetting that this movie is a fetch quest. It could have worked if we'd seen more than Themyscira before. This could be like that sequence in "Avengers: Endgame" where we go on a little memory tour of the previous films, but instead it's a return to Paradise Island, our first brief, boring glimpse of Atlantis, and a nuclear plant cooling tower. This is one of the problems with setting the "let's get the team together" movie before you've met most of the team or established most of the set pieces.

The boom tube effect is pretty good. It's a shame Steppenwolf looks so much like a character from a Zemeckis film. I do appreciate that Joss had enough restraint to avoid dropping "Magic Carpet Ride" or something when he showed up.

Fus roh dah!

Also, I realize the ship has largely sailed on this, but the Amazons are supposed to be an incredibly advanced society; maybe we could stop depicting them as exclusively armed with bronze-age weaponry.

You know, it's hard to see Lois Lane so...despondent? Demoralized? Even in the wake of Clark's death. Like, Lois was pretty weepy for a few issues of the comics after Superman died, but within two months she was accosting cops and breaking into Cadmus in a wetsuit and punching dudes in the teeth. Lois Lane is a stone cold badass, and the only film in this erstwhile trilogy that came close to understanding that was "Man of Steel."

The frustrating thing about the dialogue is just how obvious it is that Joss knows how to write exactly as many characters as are on the Avengers. Batman just sounds like Tony Stark, Wonder Woman banters like Black Widow until she needs to exposit like Thor, it's just so lazy.

And so is the backstory of the Mother Boxes. I actually really like the "all the races of man joined together with the gods and the Green Lanterns to repel Steppenwolf" angle, because it makes this idea of uniting as a League into a theme that you could build a movie around (that movie was "The Fellowship of the Ring"). Unfortunately, they do it by stripping the Mother Boxes of anything that made them interesting as a concept and turning Steppenwolf into a low-rent Thanos. Thanos is supposed to be a low-rent Darkseid, get it right.

I was going to rag on Bruce for comparing Flash's suit to "the space shuttle" in the present tense, when the space shuttle program ended six years before this movie came out, but I suppose Bruce Wayne is a cranky old guy in this movie, so it kind of works.

Man, poor Ray Fisher, in addition to everything else, having to read this warmed-over Bruce Banner dialogue.

Not gonna lie, hearing the Elfman Batman theme is pretty great. It's nice that Batman and Wonder Woman have really solid, recognizable motifs in the score, even if they had to reach back 30 years to find one for Batman. It's a shame the other characters don't get anything so clear and distinctive.

Casting J.K. Simmons as Commissioner Gordon was a pretty good move.

Our first full glimpse of Cyborg is a bit uncomfortable. Up until this point, we've seen him in sweats, so seeing him without clothes...it's like that bit in "Cats" where Idris Elba takes off his coat and even though he's covered in CGI, you can't help but think "okay, he's naked now," a thought you only have because he was wearing clothes before.

Batman does his "disappear while Gordon has his back turned" bit, and it becomes a gag because only Flash is left behind. Except that we've seen that Flash perceives things at a higher speed than others, so why would he be caught off-guard? Wouldn't their disappearance have happened in basically slow-motion to him? Why did Wonder Woman and Cyborg disappear when Batman did? How did they know to do that? The only reason Flash is left behind is for the gag, because he's the comic relief character right now, but it would make more sense for literally either of the others to be the one in that position. It feels like a "kill your darlings" moment. Like, they decided that this gag was more important than making sense, when they could easily have done a different gag—like Flash noticing that Batman was leaving and stopping him in the middle.

The Nightcrawler is a bad idea. It doesn't really make sense as the thing Batman would bring to this fight with Steppenwolf, and it's loaded up with guns, which...come on, guys. It doesn't even get a clear enough spotlight to be properly toyetic.

If you needed any confirmation that Joss saw how much better Quicksilver was in "X-Men: Days of Future Past" than in "Age of Ultron," the Flash is here in this battle to make it obvious.

God, the "Flash is awkward about being on top of Wonder Woman" gag feels like it lasts a thousand years. It's like something out of a "Big Bang Theory" episode.

It physically pained me to hear crappy Steppenwolf quoting New Gods #1.

I know there's pathos to Cyborg's character, but, like, is this really the version that they thought people wanted to see? Is this just the Brooding League? I thought a part of the reason for bumping Cyborg up to the big League was to bring in people who love the version on "Teen Titans," but there's nothing of that character here.

On the other hand, they've sidestepped the modern problem of making Barry Allen act like Wally West by instead making Barry Allen act like Bart Allen with a head injury.

I really like Bruce Wayne in a vest.

There's so many things that would have made this movie better, but honestly? I think Superman should've stayed dead. Obviously I love the character, and I even love Cavill's performance, but a movie about a superhero community coming together and being inspired by Superman's example to be better—you know, the thing Batman says at the end of "Dawn of Justice"—would have been a lot better than a movie where two characters we just met dig up Superman's grave to MacGuffin him back to life. It still wouldn't make that much sense that Superman would have such a massive impact after just a year and a half of public superheroing (come on, Snyder, if you're going to do the Christ allegory, why not give him three years?), but it would have been a better way to showcase what the character means to this universe and to these characters.

This runs into something I said way back when I first saw "Man of Steel": You shouldn't make General Zod your first-movie villain. I've been comparing this film to "Age of Ultron" a lot, but I'm starting to realize that the entire DCEU—with the possible exception of "Wonder Woman"—is made up of the second movie in each character's respective franchises. Zod should have been the villain Superman faced after he was established, to raise doubts about the character's allegiances and present him with a seemingly impossible threat. Batman should have fought Superman after a movie where we established what Batman's deal is, how he got to be so angry and bitter. The Justice League should have faced an enemy too big to fight without Superman after the movie where a threat and Superman's legacy inspired them to unite together. Heck, even "Suicide Squad" would've been better if they'd saved the "one of our own is a traitor" plot for a sequel, where we might have some emotional attachment to some of the characters.

Boy, Barry Allen attempting a fist bump with Cyborg and then laughing off the rejection with the phrase "racially charged" hits real bad in the wake of Ray Fisher's discussion about the environment on-set.

One thing to appreciate about Cavill's Superman is how much he exemplifies the hairy-chested, dimple-chinned version that Dan Jurgens draws.

And Elfman works the John Williams theme into the score. The motif works well the first time, less so the second when he's trying to kill the Flash. Hitting it in a more minor key would have been nice. Again, it's a shame they had to go literally forty years back in time to find a recognizable Superman theme when there were two Superman movies leading up to this.

This fight between Superman and the League is bad and unnecessary, but the bit where Superman reacts to Flash in super-speed is well-done, marred only by the incredibly doofy look on Flash's face.

God, Cavill doing the gravel-voice, asking "Do you bleed?" might be the worst part of this movie. Although Lois Lane entering the plot for the first time in an hour so she can say "the sun's gettin' real low" to Superman is a close second. Why isn't she involved in the formation of the League? Why wasn't she a major character in this?

Batman's "something's definitely bleeding" comedy bit feels like something out of a View Askew movie, and not only because it's Ben Affleck.

Clark's discussion with Lois, "it's itchy," it's yet another jarring tone shift from what we saw immediately before. And the greenscreen work on the farm (reshoots, I expect) is somehow worse than the moustache removal.

The bit with Aquaman baring his soul because he's sitting on the Lasso of Truth is the closest one of the comedy bits in this has come to actually working for me.

And then, adding to the "Age of Ultron" comparisons, we're back to fighting an enemy in a small Eastern European nation. The red skies are a nice touch. The Batmobile's 50-caliber cannon and chainguns, less so.

Did...did the Flash just say "oh snap"?

And Aquaman saying "my man" to Cyborg with the exact same inflection as Bradley Cooper in "Get Out" is another one of those real uncomfortable moments.

And then Batman gets a laser gun, because why not?

Superman asking "how can I help" and then rushing off to save civilians is maybe the best moment for the character in the entire DCEU. It's also nice that Superman gets a moment to help more or less each character with their individual missions.

And then Wonder Woman drops the "I work with children" line, which is the best line Black Widow gets in this movie.

Cyborg gets his "booyah" moment, which feels forced but at least makes some sense with his character arc. Flash gets his fistbump. Not-Sokovia gets to be the setting for a Jeff Vandermeer novel, and the team gets their triumphant moment in the sun.

We're on to denouement, and Lois gets the closing narration, which is mostly fine. It would work better if she weren't basically a cameo in the movie. I do like that it ends on "look, up in the sky," and that Cavill finally gets a chance to do the shirt pull.

Except that's not the end. First we get the beginning-of-credits scene with the Superman/Flash race, which is cute but unnecessary. And then a truly awful cover of "Come Together" before the post-credits sequence where Lex Luthor meets up with Deathstroke and his truly ridiculous dye job.

In summary, Joss Whedon's Zack Snyder's "Justice League" is a bad movie. In fact, it's several bad movies stitched together into a shambling bad movie Frankenstein. And tomorrow I'm going to watch Zack Snyder's Zack Snyder's "Justice League: The Snyder Cut," which is getting surprisingly positive reviews. I do not expect to enjoy it, because I really don't think my problems with this movie will be fixed by making it broodier and longer, and my track record with enjoying Snyder's films is basically nonexistent. But I'm watching it, because I'm a glutton for punishment, and at least if I do it while I'm still on vacation from Twitter, I won't be tempted to join in the undoubtedly toxic discourse.

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