#my contribution to the jc fandom

[sofistefiart]

My friends convinced me to post my JC fanart here as well so here’s some stuff from the past few months

[mifeng-xiaojie]

This is the last I’ll say about the “canon Jiang Cheng” wankery.

It has been a spoken and agreed upon rule of Tumblr fandom before there was a Jiang Cheng to love or hate that you DO NOT put your hate in the character and ship tags and that you do tag it with “anti-character name”. The reason is because fans utilize those tags to find and share art, fiction, and discussions about their favorite characters. The tags have always been meant to be a space to bring people together positively.

It’s long been understood that anyone who puts hate in the tag either doesn’t know any better or they just want to start shit. I’m late to the fandom, but my impression of the JC antis and this whole tag mess is that you all just want to start shit and be miserable because honestly, the majority of you all contribute more hate and negativity to fandom than you do anything else. You talk about JC fans being delusional. Ok, and? Even if they are, they’re having fun! They’re making friends with each other and bonding over their love for this character, which is how fandom is supposed to be. You’re worried about this so called delusion because why again?

Ya’ll knew that naming the tag “canon” would be contentious. Different people have different interpretations of canon, but rather than accept that in good faith, you’d rather accuse people of lying, making things up, and being delusional. Do you feel better doing that?

It’s a fictional story we’re all supposed to be having fun with. Yall make shit not fun. I hesitated for a long time to even engage with this fandom because of the amount of hate and vitriol I see antis spewing on a day to day basis. I just recently watched as antis on that confession blog appeared to have gotten their face chewed off enough by JC stans so then they tried it with the JGY stans and proceeded to get steamed rolled again. Yall do this shit to yourselves and cry victim. Stop it. Get some help. Get jobs. Mow the lawn. Do something productive. This ain’t it.

[olderthannetfic]

Re: https://www.tumblr.com/olderthannetfic/738859016693874688/why-do-some-popular-things-have-such-small & the person who replied to it in Another ask about Slay The Princess --

This answer was a facinating read as someone currently in the James Cameron's Avatar fan space -- i was only 8/9 when the first movie came out, and wasnt very into fandom Yet, but around the early 2010's when i Did get into it and went looking, there was almost Nothing to be found (and the few that Did exist were either short character studies written by some of the smartest people on the planet or troll fics), less than a 1,000 Total in the media tag on ao3 iirc?? And i remember feeling Fine with that, for the exact readon you both mentioned -- the first Avatar is a very well rounded film, no matter what everyone cares to say about it. It was Written to be a stand alone film, and bc JC is good at what he does, that Worked, and there truly wasnt much to write fic about besides Extreme au shenanigans or a few theoretic between-scenes, you know the type.

Then the second movie came out Last year and then the Game came out THIS and the fandom has just. Exploded. It's almost funny because so many of the younger fans, who were in it for x readering with the Sully kids, keep complaining about how "the fandom is dying 😭😭" in the tags the past few months and i just have to stare at it like pal just because we're not still shooting metaphorical fireworks about how much we loved the sequel and game doesnt mean we've all Moved On 😩 Im still Diligently mpregging the resurrected villain in my new longform crack fic thats probably going to be finished around the time the 5th movie comes out. Wee child you must Power through with us. Increase Your Fandom Stamina 💪😎🏃‍♂️!!!

But yeah it's just been Extremely interesting seeing how drastically things have changed, going from that completed, hard-to-write Wholeness from how compact the first film was vs the Flood of worldbuilding and lore and new characters we've been given (and have yet to Get, there may be some evil f/f fics beyond the horizon...) and how much the Sequel has contributed in the process of making Avatar easier to enjoy Casually, rather than as a "stereotypical", "extreme" strawman'd Avatar fan of yor (our elders who i respect most vehemently, for their help in understanding and writing the Na'vi conlang in all our fics 💪❤).

Even though the canon movies have a lot of problems, ive been luckiy enough to see the Fandom do what its always done best -- ive met wonderful people and Incredible artists while the life experience + background knowledge who can flesh out the areas of the concept that JamCam has yet to delve into, for whatever reasons he claims to have, and ive And others have felt moved enough by it all to start writing our Own incredibly self indulgent and sincere stories, within the same framework! Bc good lord it really is a sandbox. The moment you start diving into all the Implications of Avatar's universe, how the RDA is run, how Eywa works, etc etc etc.... jesus. ive lost so many hours of sleep reading real academic papers on Actual xenobiology (yes its a real thing, it both is And isnt what you think it is) for these movies, its nuts.

So some days like Now i just have to sit here like. Wow. We built this house And made it a home. and its Awesome. these asks made me want to gush about it 🥰 thats all! tysm!! Love this blog SO much, keep up the great work n have an awesome day everyone!!!

--

[fuckyeahjcchasez]

I just know I’m going to be disappointed by something and I just hate it.

I know myself, I know that I’m going to find some little issue that’s going to bother me enough to completely ruin it for myself.

It’s going to be something. It’s going to be how much more lines Justin gets than JC, it’s going to be the fact that Justin co-wrote the song and didn’t ask JC to contribute. It’s the fact that everyone is going to be talking about Justin in some way shape or form - positively or negatively. It’s going to be me letting myself be bothered by how much shit people are talking about JC.

The whole fandom is going to be joyous with merriment and I’ll be in my corner crying over some imaginary slight in my head because I won’t allow myself to have nice things without brainwashing myself into thinking that there’s always someone wrong so I just have to get over it or thinking that because I’m me, everything I like is inherently shitty…

[misa-angel]

Look at him

Look at his fucking face

Lying there

Maybe dead

If he aint dead imma beat him into hell myself for scaring everyone like that, stay alive bitch

[professionaltrashsstuff]

Thank you @orion-flux for the inspiration

[grewlikefancyflowers]

Hello,

Can you please elaborate on Wei Changze's and Wei Wuxian's position in the Jiang sect?? Wei Changze is always said to be a servant to the Jiang sect but wasnt he also a cultivator? Was he not a disciple of the jiang sect? Further wwx is always said to be a "son of a servant" or a "servant" sometimes. YZY indirectly calls him a servant(chapter 51) and so does JGS (chapter 71). Does that mean the disciples of the sect are considered as servants to the leader and his family??

So, what we are told canonically is that WCZ is JFM's 'most loyal servant' and his 'old friend' (ch. 56, 29). I don't think it outright states he was a cultivator? Though he did die on a nighthunt, Mianmian's non-cultivator husband also nighthunts with her, I don't know if we can assume anything from that. [Edit: nvm that, it says he and CSSR were cultivation partners] WCZ was also free to leave the Jiang Clan and live his own life seemingly without backlash.

About WWX we are told that he is the head disciple, his father was a servant but WWX is not. Despite that, some regard him as a servant anyway, though JFM is angered by YZY referring to WWX as such (ch.51). He was also not allowed the leave the Jiang Clan without backlash due to JC regarding this as a wrongdoing against him (ch.73, 87, 103).

Out of WWX and WCZ it seems as if the one who was a servant held in some ways more privilege than the one who was head disciple. This highlights something that has been on my mind for a while, discussions within fandom on this have largely not addressed or missed the nuanced and often contrary ways in which privilege and discrimination functions (both irl and in MDZS).

Those lack status and privilege by birth are entirely subject to the whim of others in gaining it.

This is how you end up with situations like JYL peeling lotus seeds for WWX, because she sees him as a brother and likes to do nice things for him, while YZY becomes infuriated that JYL is behaving as if she's 'somebody's servant' (ch.51), finding it demeaning because to YZY WWX is not a family member nor anyone of value. To her, he is a servant, she refers to him as such and treats him as such (ch.51, 56, 57, Lotus Seed Pod). And this is one of the few things that JFM (who typically avoids conflict) becomes angry at her over (ch.51), to him WWX is the son of a friend who he valued greatly. JFM treats him well, teaches him to cultivate, hinders (some of) YZY's treatment of him. So, if not for JFM, & YZY had her way, what would WWX be within Lotus Pier? Nothing more than a servant. And if JFM had wanted to, he could have simply taken WWX in as a servant. If JFM had seen fit, both WWX and his father could have never done anything more than sweep floors and fetch tea.

When WWX attends the Cloud Recesses lectures, we're told that the reason he makes such quick friends with the young masters of other clans is because they all know that despite WWX's father being a servant, JFM, his sect leader, treats him like a son. So they follow his example and treat WWX as they would treat all the other clan heirs present, looking past his parentage only because they're young and don't care about such things (ch.13).

Strangely, the respect and privilege WWX had seems to disappear under JC's leadership. WWX's cultivation did play some role in this, though the reason for backlash against him was in large part due to how it threatened jianghu hierarchy — they were fearful of him & what he represented. So, this was their motivation for wanting to bring him down, but this wasn't exactly what enabled them to do so. JGY actually summarised pretty neatly how JC's contributed to this.

Fortunately for everyone, you [JC] didn’t seem to have a terrific relationship with your shi-xiong. [...] Sect Leader Jiang, if only you had been nicer to your shi-xiong in public, given the impression that your bonds were unbreakably tight, making the others feel that they were no room to exploit between you two'

When JFM treated WWX well, others followed suit, when JC openly treated WWX bady, now everyone else was allowed to as well! We can also see this in how JC awards WWX no recognition for basically having won the SSC and revived the Jiang Sect for him. Even JGS officially adopted JGY for his contribution to the SSC, giving him status and protection. JC gave WWX nothing.

On Phoenix Mountain, when people call WWX a son of a servant, JYL doesn't even bother trying to argue against it with something like 'what's wrong with servants,' her defense of him is 'A-Xian is a disciple of the YunmengJiang Sect. He grew up with my brother and I, and so he’s as close as a brother is to me. Calling him the ‘son of a servant’—I’m sorry, but I won’t accept this. [...] Madam, A-Xian is my younger brother. Him being humiliated by others, to me, isn’t just a small matter.”'

It's not 'don't treat people like this' it's 'you can't treat a member of my clan, someone I see as a brother like this,' and this is the only thing that could possibly work. All these people care about is status and birthright, the only way a person who doesn't have these things innately could gain any respect in their eyes is if they're awarded it by someone who already has those privileges.

This is why discussions about WWX being 'a privileged young master of a great sect', though not necessarily incorrect, miss the point so badly. It doesn't matter how much privilege he had (or has), all of it was subject to the whims of others, never truly his. It could be taken away just as easily as it could be given. Everything he had was dependent on goodwill and generosity, and on him behaving as those who bestowed it wanted him to behave.

[tea-cat-arts]

Dude, you're arguing semantics and being borderline condescending on a vent post. It's left open to interpretation on whether or not he killed wwx, not in the "did he or did he not drive a sword through him" sense (since we know he didn't do that), but in the "was jc's participation in the siege a major contributing factor to wwx's unstable mental state, therefore causing the spiritual rebound" sense. My phrasing in the original post was not the best as it was a vent post where I'm pretty sure I tagged it as something like "this is not a jc analysis post," but ya- this post is not reflective of all my thoughts on him.

The bad thing he did is being a participant in the killing of 100+ mostly innocent people. He was an active participant in that, and it is disingenuous to solely frame it as not risking his clan (up until the burial mound siege, I think it would be fair to say that, but after that nah- he lead a revolt against doctors, children, and elderly who were mostly just minding their own business). It's a complex situation where I do think factors like "the Wens should probably pay some kind of reparations to the cultivation world as even though they weren't active participants in the clans atrocities, they still financially benefited from them," and the fact that Jiang Cheng had just lost his sister and was incredibly susceptible to propaganda because he was angry and grieving (just an example. Not all the reasons) should be taken into account, and they're why I would never call jc himself a bad or evil person, but killing 100 people who didn't even have an army to fight back is a pretty undeniably bad thing to do.

I fully agree though that the fandom tends to over exaggerate his actions related to demonic cultivators though, and they were not at all who I was referring to when I said "hurt and killed innocent people." Like, wwx also talks about how creating living corpses via murdering innocent people was a trend among demonic cultivators... if Jiang Cheng was actually allowed to kill anyone, it probably wasn't like "Jim Joe down the street who summoned a ghost one time"

(Disclaimer: this is a vent post)

Jiang Cheng discourse is frustrating because I feel like it always boils down to a debate on whether he's a good or bad person when like-

Such a central idea throughout all her books is that everyone has the capacity for good and evil. The cannibal who's been sewing political discourse for centuries is also a halfway decent dad, the prince who once tried to save all the common people ended up turning on them and releasing a plague, the guy who schemed and killed his way to chief of cultivation sacrificed himself to keep his best friend safe, the world's most dedicated internet hater also improves the lives of almost everyone around him... trying to force this narrow frame of good and bad people on her stories just doesn't work.

When it comes to Jiang Cheng in particular, I feel like the context for his actions gets completely thrown out the window in favor of focusing on the ways in which he was an asshole, but Jiang Cheng isn't really in a position where he can afford to be kind to everyone. The man has a whole clan to watch out for- as a kid, he couldn't just stand up to the Wens because every action he took would be interpreted as a reflection of the Jiang Clan's stance (and they were not in a position to go to war with the Wens). As an adult, he thought he couldn't afford to stand up for either wwx or the remaining Wens because it would risk putting his very freshly reformed clan who just finished a war in conflict with 3 other major clans. He is shown to have the capacity for love and the capacity for kindness (ex: getting all the hiers out of the cave and running all the way back to Yunmeng for help, putting himself in danger to draw the Wen scouts away from wwx, co-parenting Jin Ling with Jin Guangyao, being an attack dog against anyone who hurts his family, guarding wwx from dogs as a kid, standing up to his mom and asking her to stop when she berates wwx), but he rarely has opportunities where he can just follow all of his own values without it putting his clan at risk. I also feel like the ways in which he's kind get dismissed because he doesn't act nice. Like, he's not willing to put on a smile or be chatty like either Lan Xichen or Jin Guangyao. He's an anxious, rage-filled, asshole who hates losing, and that is on display at all times.

And ya- he's absolutely done some awful shit. He's fallen for propaganda, he's hurt and killed both wwx and potentially hundreds of innocent people, he doubles down on his mistakes instead of reflecting, and he votes with the leapords eating your face party, and he'll be spending a lot of time alone and filled with rage and regret because of it. I do not deny that all that shit is true about him, but what I'll argue against is the idea that it's all he ever was and all he'll ever be

Normally, I believe in death of the author, but in this case mxtx's comments from a 2016 interview support my stance on him, so I'm gonna bring it up (Link to full interview. It's a fun read)

But ya: shout out to my fellow Jiang Cheng fans who like him, but think he's an asshole and want to push him down a flight of stairs

[flyndragon]

One of the biggest problems with any half-serious reconciliation between WWX and JC is the fact that WWX's post-canon family, the ones he now loves as much if not more than JC, all have reason to loathe and mistrust the latter (LWJ - look at canon, LSZ and WN being the 'leftovers' (JC's word) he wanted put down and whose entire family he voluntarily led and contributed the most to slaughter. I don't think any of the three would 'ban' a detente but they couldn't possibly want JC (cont)

2/ in THEIR lives and why should they? WWX wouldn;t ask of of them. So how do you think the WWX and JC would manage to connect - just at Koi Tower? JL would probably like that, and it would respect WWX's other loved ones' feelings and history.

Anon, first of all - thank you for sending me my first ask? I am very much not an expert on anything mdzs, and have only written one (arguable) meta on why I like a ship. I haven't published any fanfic (due to my own insecurities, not necessarily because I don't write it, lol) on this topic either.

But, if you really want my little opinion about it, I can give you a couple thoughts! In a list, because that's how my brain functions.

1. Lan Shizui - He is going through a time after canon, but that is completely disconnected to JC! He probably has very few thoughts about the guy post-canon other than the fact that one of his adopted dads really doesn't like the guy.

He basically is rebuilding his identity as a Wen and learning more about them (implied by his post canon road-trip with WN) and is going to be busy reconciling this new identity he may have suspected was missing but didn't know about with his identity as a Lan. Jiang Cheng wasn't the only person at the siege! LQR and LXC were there too!! That's his uncle and (essentially) his grandpa! I think he's going to be way more preoccupied with the deep emotional issues from that than he will from any interacting WWX does with JC

And we also have to question how close is he with wei wuxian post canon in our fanfic. I know we as the fandom and fanfic authors love to make them act as a father and son, completing, along with LWJ, a nuclear family. But LSZ has lived the vast majority of his life without any idea he had a connection to the yiling patriarch! They share a cute moment at the very end, but he's off to find himself with WN. Lan Shizui has been raised by lan wangji and had wei wuxian as an occasional babysitter for 6 months or so when he was four, and he only has barely started remembering that time in his life.

When I look at Shizui I don't think he has the power or desire to stop WWX from reuniting with his brother. And, even if he wanted to, I don't think any reconciliation would make a big enough impact in his life such that JC was 'forced' on him. Even if jiang cheng visited the cloud reccesses, LSZ is gone. And even if they were there at the same time, would they be forced to interact? The way JC is most likely to be 'in [shizui's] li(fe)' is through Jin Ling. Which isn't going to be affected by the relationship between wwx and jc.

2. Wen Ning - Admittedly, I am the least familiar with his character out of the three you cited. But, although his big snapping moment with the golden core reveal, I don't know how specifically afraid of or pissed off at JC he is post canon. I think he mostly doesn't like Jiang Cheng for emotionally hurting WWX more than for anything involving the Wen. WN participated in the war, he knows what JC went through. I think that if he sat down for a minute and contemplated the things he said at the reveal, I think he would know they were a bit unfair. If he is going to be angry at JC for the burial mounds siege, he also has to be angry with LQR, LXC, a lot of unnamed cultivatiors from every other sect, and most minor sect leaders. Along with anger for the previous major sect leaders who are now dead.

And he wasn't even at the siege.

I think that most of wen ning’s anger at JC is on behalf of wwx, who he feels was wronged by JC. So if wwx wanted to reconcile, I highly doubt WN would stand in his way. And again, as with shizui, I don't automatically think that wwx reconciling with jc means that WN is automatically going to be forced to interact with JC.

3. Lan Wangji - Why does lwj hate jc? Seriously. You said 'look at canon', and I agree, LWJ does hate JC in canon. and JC responds to that hate with hate. It’s not hard to nail down - LWJ hates jc because of wwx. because even though he was at wwx's death and knows that JC didn't actually stab his sword into wwx, he firmly believes that the actions JC took drove wwx to his death. Its the same reason he hates himself during the timeskip.

That, and LWJ is used to being the only petty bitch in the room (cloud recesses). He doesn't have the emotional insight to recognize that sometimes yelling at someone can be a sign of how much you care. They have different communication styles, and that mostly comes with lwj judging how jc interacts with wei ying. Though we, as the audience, with wwx's pov and our own insight, see they love each other, lwj cannot. So he thinks JC is just actually being mean for no reason.

But again, like WN, he is weak for wei wuxian. if wei wuxian chooses to have a better relationship with his brother, LWJ might protest but I think he would ultimately relent.

This will mean he might have to spend actual time with JC, but ... he's chief cultivator. He's GOING to have to anyway. Not to mention, it seems like he did anyway, judging by their junior night hunt supervision.

I don't think wei wuxian would mind their continued animosity. In fact, in certain scenarios, like their night hunt chaperone death glare match, I bet he'd find it kinda funny.

4. You seem to taking specific umbrage with JC calling the wen remnant 'leftovers', and believe that he specifically wants wen ning and wen yuan to die. You probably took this specific word from chapter 73 of the exiled rebels translation of mdzs. If you look a bit closer, you can also notice that JC's next line of dialogue "I doubt you'll even return all of them". He is making this argument because he wants the brother he loves to be safe and somewhere JC can protect him. He is, throughout this entire scene, pointing out that this is a political disaster and how this hurts both his brother and the jiang. and even then, he does NOT expect all of the wen clan to be returned. He is expecting Wei Wuxian to smuggle a few (or even a lot!) of them away - perhaps people like granny and any children?

Also, wen ning is a fierce corpse who just killed some dudes. Although he did so justifiably, he is still the sort of demon that cultivators kill all the time, and wwx hasn't shown that its even possible to bring back his consciousness. We know he will, but that’s a ridiculous idea to the average cultivator. JC doesn't think he's telling WWX to kill a person at this point but a zombie, which they as cultivators kill all the time.

5. But, in the end, should LSZ, LWJ, and WN all hate JC's guts and refuse to even look at his fucking face post canon - they DO NOT control wei wuxian. WWX has met someone and listened to what they wanted him to so when he wanted the opposite perhaps three times in his entire life. If there is a reason that he thinks he should go talk to his brother, if there is a reason he thinks he should go to lotus pier, if there’s a reason he thinks his brother doesn't hate him anymore and wants to have WWX in his life, WWX is GOING to GO. That’s just his nature.

(the reasons are obviously the territory of fanfic)

WWX respecting 'other loved ones' feelings and history' does not mean denying himself of an equally important relationship in his life. Maybe it means not taking them when he goes to visit JC (and yes, I mean at lotus pier). Maybe it means not talking about Jiang Cheng to them. But it doesn't mean abandoning any hope of ever having a positive relationship with his brother again.

Reconciliation is not about them. Its not about how much hurt JC arguably caused other people surrounding WWX. Its about these two brothers reconnecting with the last person from their family living.

[plan-d-to-i]

I'm feeling like such a whiny bitch but I just. really didn't like the translation of mdzs. I know it flows better in some ways but the changes are just, it doesn't feel like mdzs. Also, it kinda softened jc. I was hoping they wouldn't, but. I'm just sad. I had such expectations. Now I have to listen to my Identitarian cousin comment on wwx's cultivation from a 'christian' perspective (bc it has 'demonic' in the name, I was already expecting it) and how jc was just being cautious and he was right, bc the tl says it was 'precautions against people being possessed by wwx' and that they were sure to 'lose half their lives' by his torture, BUt they weren't killed. he was doing the 'good work'. (why she even reading it?!! leave it ALONE!!)

Sorry for coming to you to whine, but I miss the old tl. I wish they had fixed the flow but not changed so much of the words, ig. Why can't the Jingshi be called the Jingshi?. I miss 'great news!' and 'mark your words' and just. UGH

haha don't worry I will be the bigger bitch. I really really didn't like it. I knew I wouldn't like it when snippets were posted, and I didn't like it when I got it. But I didn't buy it thinking it will be life changing. I bought it because it was important to me to a. further compensate MXTX for the joy her work brought me <3, and b. to contribute to showing publishing companies this genre is financially profitable. That there is a market for it so they're incentivized to invest more in such translations in the future. Which is why I believe everyone should buy them (if they have the means). Also I don't pretend that my taste speaks for everyone. I'm sure 99.9% of people will be more than satisfied. The art additions are nice.

I agree that it made some weird choices re some of jc's lines and added words, changed some meanings/emphasis [what was the reason! it's not in the og text]... Don't love what they called his sword. Admittedly I might not be so sensitive to it if this fandom weren't such a shit show. The glossary is all over the place, esp the character one? The tone is all over the place. Are we being silly? Are we being serious? Are we being random? Is it an actual glossary with facts or are we misleading the reader for suspense. Don't see the point. I would've preferred if they used it to keep more pinyin in and just add the definitions there, eps since a majority of the target buyers are already familiar with the work & names. It can feel a bit like someone popped open a thesaurus to make the translation different for the sake of having it be different, so it can feel like the linguistic choices lack continuity. I too will miss the things you mentioned... But I also think perhaps the dissatisfaction stems from the fact that I ended up reading all the translations that were out there in whatever varying degrees of completion they were. So in my heart I couldn't help but wish for (the impossible) something that would distill the best in all of them into one ultimate translation to rule them all. But ofc that wasn't going to happen, this is just another new translation. So it depends entirely on how you vibe with the translator's sensibilities. It will also be particularly hard not to compare it against what you're used to that was your first intro to the story in the english language. A bit like hearing a beloved song in a different key... it might sound a bit off but the meaning is still pretty much the same.

[no-assbutt-like-you]

I can understand your frustration with how JC is portrayed by most of the fandom (I share similar frustrations) when I first read the novel I honestly can say I had no opinion on him, he was just a character that (in my eyes) contributed to wwx’s downfall and had a somehow close relationship with him on their junior years. But, then I reread the book and I read analysis (from both extreme sides) and like you i ended up just not liking his character.

I feel like most people who have some level of reading comprehension and read the novel can see he is an antagonistic character, regardless of if they like the character or not, that’s something that mxtx made clear in her writing. I feel like a lot of the issue with extremes in the fandom is more reactionary to each other than anything else. The stans act even more protective and adoring of him in reaction to criticism about his character, while the antis act even more negative about him in reaction to the people who purposely blind themselves to his negative traits (of which there are many).

From the people I see who are critical of him, they don’t even necessarily hate him. They just don’t like how a lot of people refuse to acknowledge the bad things he did in canon in favor of this “best tsundere brother” persona that is so popular in fanon

About your mention of him sacrificing his golden core for WWX the same as WWX did for him, this is actually not true. In canon (the novel) neither JC nor WWX know why Wen Zhuliu is called the core melting hand until he destroys JC’s core. JC didn’t know he was going to lose his core when he distracted the wens, he had no idea that was a possibility, which is why when he wakes up afterwards he asks WWX if he knows why the core melting hand is called that way and becomes suicidal because he feels he will never be a cultivator again. He regrets it almost immediately, and only becomes spirited again when there’s a chance he can get his core back. This is different from WWX, because WWX knew what was going to happen when he decided to give his core to JC, he agonized about it and all but he still did it with the full knowledge of the consequences.

And while I personally don’t believe JC considered WWX as a brother I do think he cared about him in some way before the whole lotus pier fall. A scene that comes to mind for me a lot with this is when he carries WWX after the punishment for breaking curfew or when he does his best to get him help in the Xuanwu cave. But here’s the thing, those small hints of caring are easily overshadowed by the poisonous words and actions he constantly shows WWX during both of his lives, like constantly telling him LWJ hates him, or torturing him with a dog later on, or killing the wens even though he knew he owned them a life debt and they were defenseless people.

I completely agree with you on the fact that YZY is the worst, no arguments there. But, with JFM I don’t completely agree that he was a bad parent or that he didn’t acknowledge JC. He did try to teach his son, we see it right after WWX is rescued from the cave, he tries to teach him about why the things he says are wrong and is immediately interrupted and then belittled by his wife. A parent can’t do much parenting if they are constantly put down and insulted in front of the child. JC completely believes his mother when she says the crap she says and JFM is too mild mannered and beaten down to say anything so it reinforces what YZY says in JC’s mind.

And yes, the best Jiang is Yanli. Hands down the best one of the bunch, especially because she truly treats WWX like an actual brother.

ok, let's talk about jiang cheng.

i hate the two extremes that the fandom has when portraying jiang cheng's character.

he's either the best brother the world has to offer or the worst scum of the beings that ever stepped his foot on the planet.

not many actually acknowledge the canon jiang cheng.

(note that i'm neither speaking against him nor for him so take every sentence without any emotion behind it. also, this is written by a person who doesn't like jiang cheng as a character but doesn't hate him - at least most of the time - either, so do with that what you will.)

he lead the siege against the burial mounds in the grief of losing his sister, the person who he loved the most in the world. but it was stupid that he, of all people killed wei wuxian with the reason being wei wuxian killed his sister, when jiang yanli so clearly sacrificed herself so that wei wuxian could live.

he was entirely jealous of wei wuxian since he was a child and has taken decisions in his adulthood with jealousy and envy many times. but it is also important to note that ever since he was a kid he did not have the acknowledgement of his father and all he had in the form of his mother was a person who constantly compared him to someone he wanted to (and to an extent, succeeded) love as a brother, berating him for not being as good and taking put her jealousy and trauma on her child, making him a shell of negative emotions. the latter doesn't, by any means, excuse the former (i cannot stress this enough), but the former cannot be said without acknowledging the latter.

jiang cheng's feelings towards wei wuxian are very complicated for both us as an audience and himself too. he cared for him and wanted him by his side. the fact that he at least cared for wei wuxian is shown when he distracts the wen guards onto himself so that wei wuxian is not caught by them. like it or not, jiang cheng did sacrifice his core for wei wuxian as wei wuxian did for him. and he wanted wei wuxian to be always by his side, it's clear when he speaks about the broken promises between them. but, at a lot of times i felt that he treated wei wuxian as a subordinate more than a brother even though he wanted to treat him as a brother, but he never really realized that he didn't actually treat him the way he did. (correct me if i'm wrong here but this is how i interpreted it.)

jiang cheng is a hypocrite (like a lot of people in this series). he always speaks about wei wuxian's debt to the jiang sect, but he completely brushes aside his own debt to wen ning and wen qing and doesn't even attempt to help them when they're in a dire situation. in fact, he led the siege that killed their family in the burial mounds. lotus pier was fallen and he could not afford to anger the entire cultivation world, but if he holds someone else as to how they should regard a debt, he himself should regard it the same.

fandom has created the divide where either jiang cheng becomes this ray of sunshine for wei wuxian and helps him by turning his back against the entire cultivation world, which is disregarding what his very character is written for, giving into the societal pressure and someone who runs on negative emotions due to his upbringing. or, he is the evil person who doesn't acknowledge the sacrifice made by wei wuxian and demanding that it doesn't matter if he gave his core to jiang cheng because he owes the jiang sect. an action of wei wuxian that jiang cheng evidently has very strong feelings for and sends him into an emotional mess (granted, it doesn't take much for him to go into an emotional mess). and i hate both versions just as equally.

talking specifically about jiang cheng and wei wuxian's relationship, i personally believe that there is no reconciliation. there is an silent agreement that they do not hate each other and an acknowledgement of what has happened between them (silent, because it is never actually spoken about in detail after the mess of emotions that is guanyin temple), but they cannot put what has happened behind them and treat each other like they did during their teenage years, as much as people would love to see that. they can be nothing more than two people who shared a past and cannot be anything less than that either.

wang zhoucheng softened jiang cheng's character for me along with the writing for cql i admit, but it has also made me see things that i otherwise wouldn't have after looking at the sheer bitterness that the adult jiang cheng was in other adaptations.

either ways, i can't bring myself to completely like his character. i dislike his character for a lot of things he did. a lot of actions he has taken without having to bear the consequences of them while every other person of 'lower standing', in their eyes, has to bear the consequences of not only their own but also others has left a sense of bitterness in me that i don't think can ever leave.

there are many other things that i haven't spoken about, but it just pissed me off a bit to always see either 'good brother jiang cheng' or 'scum of earth jiang cheng' and the rarity of the actual jiang cheng.

on a side note, i hate yu ziyuan. she had a powerful core and a husband who would've listened to her but all she did in life was let bitterness consume her to such an extent that she fucked up the life of both her own son and an orphan, even forcing her daughter to take up the role of a mother at a young age. she could've been so much more but she decided to waste her entire life having jealousy and envy over a woman who never actually directly did anything to her, going as far as to abusing the said woman's son (emotionally, if not physically before the lotus pier fell).

i don't have any strong feelings about jiang fengmain's character but he could've done a lot to help jiang cheng by just acknowledging him. he wasn't a good parent and it can never be excused by how shitty his relationship was with his wife.

the only jiang who deserves everything is jiang yanli. precious, precious shijie.

[happyanimelover]

jc is a toxic person

 for the people (mainly jc stans and  yunmeng bros reconciliation stans) that are saying that wei wuxian and jiang cheng should reconcile . NO !!! THEY SHOULDN’T . their relationship is TOXIC !!!!!. here are some characteristics of a toxic person : 

 1)CHORONIC ANGER : the person uses anger to control .and you can find your self tiptoeing around their anger. (  How many times did wwx have to make jokes, smile, and try to satisfy jc so he wouldn't become upset, and how many times did jc stans expect wwx to dismiss his bitter and harsh comments as a sign of worry when they weren't? He shouldn't say that even if he doesn't mean it.)

2) PUNITIVE MINDSET : felling as thought people deserve the bad things that happen to them (Jc believes that the Dafan Wens deserved and even contributed to their deaths simply because their surname was Wen.)

3)EXCESSIVE INSECURITY : where the person needs you to reassure them constantly.(How many times did wwx have to hold himself back so that jc wouldn't have to put up any effort and could simply coast in his family name )

4) SELF-CENTERED : take more than they could give .while they still may give it’s easy for them to feel like they’ve given too much.(Jc believes he made a huge sacrifice for wwx when it was simply a hasty and careless action; if he knew they would melt his core, he would never do it. And, to be honest, I'm surprised he didn't think they'd melt his core. What did he expect to happen to him, for example? That they'll just let him go after thrashing him, if that's the case, WOW!his stupidity is mindblowing!!!!.. it was going to be a meaningful sacrifice if he didn’t regret it immediately .

5)THEY PUT YOU DOWN : like that time in the billing lake where wwx stated ideas about the compass of evil and jc told him to stop daydreaming and shit .

6)ABUSIVE : we all We're all familiar with JC's demeanor and how he lashes out at everyone in his path, torturing innocent people, and wwx (with a dog).

7) VICTIM BLAMING: blaming wwx for everything bad that happens to him. his parents death his sister’s husband death (jin zixuan is a dumbass who told wwx to put down his weapon when 300 hundred of archers were shotting him and even tried to restrain wwx which led to his death .and for jiang yanli death even thought she was grown ass woman who made the choice to sacrifice her self for wwx ).

ngl it honestly feels like half the fandom is living in bizarro land because in WHAT universe is "you promised to be my servant for the rest of your life" a sweet loving thing to say to someone. like... am i supposed to feel sorry for jc? I DON'T I mean what did u expect? Reconciliation? Why would u forgive someone that become ur #1 hater in life and death?

People who dismiss these warning signals are either ignorant and didn't see them, toxic people who are perplexed that they didn't get their way, or people who grew up with a toxic person and believe it is typical behavior because even objectionable behavior can feel familiar and comfortable at some level . so to the people who are saying we have mother like yu ziyuan and say it tiger mom or some shit no it’s not. go seek some help. So your mom/dad out here whippin you or verbally abusing you? that isnt strict parenting that ABUSE !!!!!.

[vrishchikawrites]

So! I've only been in the mdzs fandom for about a year. I haven't been able to read the actual novel so most of what I know comes from fanfiction. And something that's recently caught my attention is how the majority of the fandom seem to misunderstand JC's character. I used to think he wasn't 'that bad' because all the fics I've read portray his character as better than he is in the source material. But now, thanks to your meta, I've realized that he is not the 'poor, misunderstood soul' (1/2)

most of the fandom seems to portray him as. I guess my question would be: why? Why do so many people seem to misunderstand and even flat out ignore the things that are clearly stated in text. I get trying to defend your favorite character by turning a blind eye to little details about them but with JC they seem to ignore his entire personality (2/2)

The answer is fairly simple. They want to. They have become attached to a character and what to see him in the best light. If canon doesn't provide enough material to do so, fanon will. They replace the more undesirable aspects of canon with fanon or change characterizations to suit that wish.

Which, I honestly don't mind if everything is properly tagged. After spending some time in the fandom and seeing how people have softened opinions on different characters and either modify or misinterpret the characters to suit their vision, I decided to just let go of this particular gripe.

JC stans aren't the only ones doing it. They are certainly the most vocal in trying to get everyone to follow the path but man you will find stans of so many different characters trying to do the same thing. Softening canon, replacing certain canon characterizations and actions, etc, is common everywhere. Which you will eventually have to accept. Everyone has a different view on characters and defending anything too strongly will only get you grief.

My advice, seek out content that you like, accounts that provide pleasurable content, and turn a blind eye to everything else.

Anything else? Not worth it. I've seen people turning into nothing but wank accounts with nothing new to contribute because of this.

[admirableadmiranda]

Hi, sorry in advance for this rant bcs i just saw this take that made me go through a thousand stages of what the fuck. Tldr someone said that wwx and jc are two sides of the same coin and one can’t live without the other and im just?? For jc yeah i can see that but wwx?? Like.. how?? I dont hate jc (novel) but i do abhor this fandom little meow meow that he’s become. Anyways, they also said that life was a little more unfair to jc because he didn’t get the happy ending that wwx got and i mean... wasnt his character arc more than enough?? ppl do know that happy endings are not a requirement for every character, right?? these ppl do know that lxc and a bunch of others didnt get their happy ending too right?? they know that jc isnt the main character right???? (i sincerely doubt it) it’s so infuriating to see how his “stans” these days are pushing so much for him to have this “protagonist halo”. And tbh, isn’t it insulting to their “poor” jc that they’re making him seem still obsessed over wwx when he himself already said in the end that ppl should go back to where they belong and that he cant believe event after all these years, he still wants wwx to acknowledge him? Side note, jc lead a MASSACRE on innocent people and did wwx ever demand apology from him? No!! And I personally enjoyed his arc so much because he’s turned into a character who’s trying to finally stop obsessing over the past and his shixiong and yet these stans keep pushing this narrative that he hasn’t moved on at all like what the hell give him a break?? He’s done with the past and he wants to MOVE ON. Yet y’all are there making him seem like an obsessed poor puppy goodness me.

It's okay Anon, I invite your rant. Come tell me about how much it sucks that Jiang Cheng stans are taking a somewhat interesting character and stripping him of all of that.

Jiang Cheng does get a pretty happy ending by Modaozushi's standards, he's still alive and in a position to make different choices. That's way more than most characters get! Especially given his position in the story! He's one of the key antagonists, his actions directly contribute to pretty much every negative event that comes through. Xue Yang and Jin Guangyao both were killed and deservedly so, because they would not stop hurting people. Jiang Cheng is given another chance to prove he could be better if he wants.

And it is very insulting in many ways how they want to take away his one good decision to let Wei Wuxian go. Because while some stans seem to think that he's soft and fragile and didn't do any of these things, plenty of them just want him to continue to hurt everyone around him without regard. And his journey throughout the story really is learning that his words have consequences. His actions have reactions. If you continue to hurt and berate and abuse people, they will eventually want nothing to do with you. And you cannot change that. Jiang Cheng realizes that he cannot keep tying Wei Wuxian to him and everything is too broken to be fixed and lets it go. That's pretty huge for characters like him. It makes me upset that they refuse to acknowledge that, or blame Wei Wuxian. Jiang Cheng's arc ends with him not blaming him any longer. His stans just don't get him.

I'm sorry you're having a hard time enjoying Jiang Cheng as he should be in this fandom. He is a less interesting character when the stans get their hands on him. I would highly suggest continuing to come talk to me (who is less bothered by JC as long as my poor Wangxian aren't suffering at his characterization) or even better, @jiangwanyinscatmom, the most trustworthy fan of Jiang Cheng around as well as fabulous person in general. She will happily talk to you about who he is and how we should really care for him if you need a friendly ear.

[no--envies]

The destruction of the Tiger Seal and Wei Wuxian’s death

A really popular theory in the fandom is that WWX died destroying the Tiger Seal, either because of an explosion of all the energy it had accumulated or because trying to destroy it affected him to the point that he couldn’t control the resentful energies anymore. This theory often implies the destruction of the Tiger Seal was a relatively fast process and that WWX started to destroy it when the sects besieged the Burial Mounds, because he didn’t want it to fall into the wrong hands.

However, the novel explicitly contradicts this theory:

It wasn’t as though Wei Wuxian, after forging such calamity, had refused to destroy it. However, creating the thing had been difficult enough; destroying it was every bit as difficult, and demanded an incredible amount of his time and energy. Moreover, by then, he already vaguely sensed that his own situation was precarious, and sooner or later, everyone would turn on him. The immense power of the Yin Tiger Tally meant that no one dared touch him while he was wielding it—thus, Wei Wuxian kept it, for the time being. He only split the tally into two, so that anyone attempting to use it would first have to put both pieces together. Furthermore, he decided never to use it without thinking carefully through the consequences.

In all, he only ever used it two times, and both times, it shed rivers of blood. The first was during the Sunshot Campaign, and after the second time, he finally found the determination to destroy it. One half, he completely obliterated. But before he was able to finish disposing of the other, the Siege of the Burial Mounds descended upon him. He had no control over the events that followed.

(Chapter 30, Fan Yiyi translation)

This passage is very clear: WWX had completely destroyed the first half of the Tiger Seal before the siege happened. At the time, he was in the process of destroying the second half, but then he died and couldn’t do anything about it anymore. It’s also stated that destroying the Tiger Seal required an incredible amount of time and energy, which was one of the reasons he hadn’t decided to destroy it earlier.

Given the amount of resentful energy the Tiger Seal contained, it’s not surprising that both creating it and destroying it were such difficult processes. Even a much less powerful object like the bell WWX had made for JL took a long time to create:

Wen Ning, “Young Master, is this what you’ve been making for the past month or so, when you were shutting yourself in the Cave on days upon end?”

Wei WuXian, “That’s right. As long as that nephew of mine carries this bell around, not a single creature whose level is just a bit too low can even think about getting close to him. You can’t touch it. It’ll probably leave you affected for some time as well if you do.”

(Chapter 76, ExR translation)

If a bell that could only protect a person from the weakest creatures took a whole month to create (I assume because a lot of energy needed to be stored in it), how much longer would it take to destroy an immensely powerful artifact like the Tiger Seal, which could even surpass the power of its creator and didn’t recognize a master? We’re talking about something that was forged from a piece of metal that had accumulated resentful energies for centuries and WWX himself admits making it into a usable tool was a long and difficult process. Even destroying just a half probably required a lot of time to gradually dissipate all the resentful energy that was stored in it. Since we know the siege happened three months after the bloodbath of Nightless City - and considering WWX probably had other things to do in the meantime, like strengthening the defenses of the Burial Mounds for the attack he knew would come sooner or later - he had enough time to successfully obliterate one half of the Seal and start destroying the other one. Before he could completely destroy the second half, the sects arrived to besiege him and he had to focus on protecting himself and the Wen remnants.

Moreover, the process of destroying the Tiger Seal didn’t only require a lot of time, but an incredible amount of energy as well. By the time the siege happened, he was probably already exhausted. This would explain why he received a backlash and lost control of his army of corpses, since we know demonic cultivation is affected by the mental state of the one practicing it. Besides, seeing JC - the person who was once like a brother to him - lead the siege meant to kill him and destroy everything he was fighting for didn’t help his mental state at all. All of WWX’s guilt and grief at the time were already a lot to bear, but knowing that his former shidi hated him so much that he took part in the siege as the leader must have shaken him quite a bit. We don't see him sad often, but one of the few times we do is when he gets reminded of JC's role in his death while he's watching a group of kids impersonating them in a game based on the Sunshot Campaign (chapter 32).

I think WWX did what he could to protect the Wen remnants, but his exhaustion combined with his unstable mental state made him lose control of his demonic cultivation and receive a backlash, which led to him being torn to pieces by his own ghost army and dying in a really gruesome way.

The fact that he died because his cultivation method backfired and he was torn to pieces by the corpses he could no longer control is stated in the novel multiple times:

“Rejoice, rejoice! Say, which hero dealt the finishing blow to the Yiling Laozu?”

“Who else could it be? His disciple-brother, Chief Jiang Cheng of the Yunmeng Jiang Sect! [...] Sect Chief Jiang killed his own disciple-brother and destroyed his lair for the good of us all. The Burial Mounds are gone!”

[...]

“But that’s not what I heard. I thought one of his evil tricks backfired and he was shredded to pieces by those ghosts of his. Some say that they bit and tore at him so viciously that by the end of it, his body was no more than a slurry of flesh and bone dust.”

(Chapter 1, Fan Yiyi translation)

After a moment of silence, Wei Wuxian said, “What else have you heard?”

“Jiang Cheng, Clan Chief Jiang, brought people to encircle and besiege the Burial Mounds. He killed you, sir.”

“I have to clarify this. He didn’t kill me. I died because one of my techniques backfired.”

Wen Ning finally lifted his eyes and looked at him directly. “But, Clan Chief Jiang, he clearly—“

“It’s impossible for someone to walk on a lonely, single-log bridge safely and soundly for an entire lifetime. It couldn’t be helped.”

(Chapter 43, Fan Yiyi translation)

Jin GuangYao, “It is true that body sacrifice cannot be proven, but whether or not he is the YiLing Patriarch can. Ever since the YiLing Patriarch had received the cultivation backlash and been torn to dust by his ghouls on the top of the Burial Mounds, his sword was collected by the LanlingJin Sect. But, not long afterwards, the sword sealed itself.”

(Chapter 50, ExR translation)

Some of the things that were said about the first siege - like that JC had dealt the fatal blow to WWX - were untrue, but since the backlash is something WWX himself confirms we can safely take it as a fact. Also, a lot of people were present during WWX’s death and witnessed it with their own eyes, so they knew how he died. JGY, who described WWX’s death as him being “torn to dust by his ghouls”, was probably one of them since the Jin Sect was on the frontline as one of the main forces.

In my opinion, WWX started destroying the Tiger Seal not long after returning to the Burial Mounds. What finally made him decide to eliminate such a dangerous artifact from the world was the bloodbath it had caused at Nightless City. He had originally resolved not to use it unless it was really necessary, but he ended up activating it when he wasn’t clear-headed at all, in a moment of extreme desperation and grief after his whole world had crumbled, his beloved shijie had died and everyone condemned him and blamed him for everything that had happened. He wasn’t proud of all the people he had killed and didn’t want something like that to happen ever again, so he finally resolved to destroy the most powerful weapon he had, which until then he had kept as a deterrent to discourage others from attacking him, since he sensed that sooner or later the cultivation world would turn against him.

He knew perfectly well that destroying the Tiger Seal would leave him in a more vulnerable position (though he still had his demonic cultivation to protect himself and the Wen remnants), but he chose to do it anyway because he knew it was the right thing to do. Such a terrible artifact couldn’t be allowed to fall into the wrong hands under any circumstances, and he knew his own fate was sealed since the sects had already labeled him as the scourge of the cultivation world and sooner or later they would come to besiege him. Instead of perpetuating the cycle of violence, WWX chose to willingly put himself in a more precarious position, but it wasn’t the destruction of the Tiger Seal itself that killed him. It was a series of circumstances that his decision partially contributed to.

[roseclaw]

Hi! Thanks so much for pointing me towards the screvenge tag the other day! I had a jolly time going through the fics 💕

I also wanted to let you know that I have indeed read your installment to the tag too, and that I absolutely loved it. The atmosphere you created was so addicting, and I really admired how you incorporated the canon-related events into the story. I really need an entire show of this with fifty episodes.

So thank you for the fic, it was wonderful, and thank you for the pointers! 🥰

I'm glad you had fun going through the screvenge tag! It's such a good tag. And I'm delighted you enjoyed my contribution to it! It’s very sweet of you to say. If that fic hadn't been for an event with a deadline, it very easily could have been a 100k+ monster.

However, I've posted over 525k for this fandom so far and have another 50k ready to post when the event deadlines come to pass, so I there's more than enough food out there to enjoy! And no one else is writing for the silverfox!JC tag or the werewolf!NHS tag, so I need to fill that niche!

I love your art, by the way! I think, like, half my queue is your art. XD