#if i have two people in my life that dont like each other

[soyales]

i have no defence for this, my opinions came rushing out, please ignore thanks byeee

ok so i get that madoka magica is like peak anime, an eternal work of art and trancendent divine tragic yuri, but like i wanna yap about the amazingness of orpheus and eurydice’s tragedy.

so orpheus and eurydice’s story comes from thousands of years of cobbled together bits and pieces from oral tradition right? its not really a medium that lends itself to continuity and meaningful foreshadowing, symbolism and the like. its honestly probably that ancient poets just thought, “i think this is how it went? whatever story some old guy told me twenty years ago probably did this right?” and just went full send on whatever the hell they felt like talking about, superimposing their own interpretations and perspectives onto this fable. ALSO THE GREEK MYTH HAS ITS OLDEST SOURCE FROM ANCIENT ROME, THATS *CENTURIES* AFTER ITS SETTING. theres no way any modern depiction in any way can stay “accurate” or “faithful” to its original form, our “original” is already a re-telling thats basically fanfic at that point. it has three (3) total story beats, eurydice dies, orpheus goes to the underworld, orpheus fails. its not so much about the story, i think, more of the message it sends about the finality of death and futility of humanity in the face of death, which I would argue is like the crux of most tragedies. it always ends in death, and the tragedy of their love centres around death, and their inability to escape it. i think it is more of a relatable tragedy to us non-magical girls turned immortal divinity, even though absolutely none of this shit is literally realistic to anyone outside a fictional world, its an analogy, of the suffering caused from the death/abandonment of loved ones. they don’t really need further depth into their characters nor relationship, i think it exists nicely as an ideal or concept, to be doven into by anyone.

i can’t say much about madohomu because its been a while since i had last seen it, but from what i remember it gets kinda insane with the lore and yeah i remember it being an amazing experience with brilliant writing, but i don’t want to say definitively that its a better story. it is, but like i dont want to admit it ok?? its a single story of a single writer’s mind, while my classical greek otp is a mishmash of thousands of years of artists of all kinds.

even with the messiness of mythos and the simplicity at its core, orpheus and eurydice have many different versions of their tale over time, a real life history that madohomu just dont have, and i think it sort of makes up for the less stable premise. it has just a richer history that i think is really interesting, weaving in the history of each storyteller in each rendition.

take hadestown the featured pic, it plays real fast and loose with the commonly accepted lore of the myth — the song he sings is different, the setting changes from the golden age of heroes in the hellenistic area to some sort of western railroad wild west-ish place, eurydice isnt a nymph, the satyrs arn’t there, etc. — but it still runs through the same simple story beats. it is different to ovid’s metamorphoses’ depiction of them, where they seem to focus more on the “no matter what you can’t escape death”, whereas hadestown seems to say more that “no matter what you can’t escape capitalism” (i know im grossly generalising it, shush.) all this to say its a different take, made by different people, and my own take in my mind is also different to all of yours as much as yours are different to all others, even if it is only in the most minute way. theres no right answer with these old ass myths, while there can be a slight directive with something more modern and crafted as pmmm.

theres just something super tragic about the fact that no matter how many renditions and versions orpheus and eurydice’s story goes through, all of them end up with the two being separated. their most remembered story beat is that orpheus fails her, and they don’t manage to live happily ever after, which is a special sort of tragic at least to me. also im defending orpheus now. i swear he’s not an absolute loser failure ok??? hes somewhat functional, but less so without eurydice. he’s literally walking out of the underworld, escaping death. at his point in time, NO ONE HAS DONE THAT BEFORE (no one still has, but i digress). the sheer stress of that compounded with the fact that he’s dealing with gods — who in ancient greece are famously known to not want to benefit mortals like he — would make anyone in his position weak. its a little mistake, that unfortunately has grave consequences attached. how easy is it to hear a sound behind you and instinctively look and check? with the knowledge that your love of your life may or may not be behind you no less. he was just about leaving the underworld, the sight of the sky ahead of him, what if he thought they had already succeeded? a small misconception, a tiny movement of the head, just a small turn of his eyes and everything crumbles before him? its his fault, and he knows it best. but also i can’t judge him for that, he does way better than i think most people would do in that situation. most people wouldn’t have even stepped foot beyond the acheron and he went fully in and out without killing himself (entirely).

alright thanks if you read all of that, i can’t even read that and its only been 5 seconds since I typed the last sentence. 14 seconds now <333

anyways madohomu supremacy lets goooo tragic yuri wins <33333

Tragic Ships Tournament: FINAL ROUND

Propaganda under the cut!

Orphydice:

"y'all probably know the story of orpheus and eurydice. but they are SO tragedy. they are TEXTBOOK tragedy. they redefined the genre. on their literal wedding day as she's walking down the aisle eurydice gets bit by a snake and dies. orpheus loves her so much he goes down to the underworld to try and save her. hades allows him to take her back to the land of the living, as long as she walks behind him, and he cannot look back, otherwise her soul will be taken. he's mostly fine , but begins to doubt and at the very end of the tunnel, he looks back. they lock eyes for a moment before she disappears back into hell. orpheus is then so distraught that he wanders the earth singing mournful melodies and gets stoned to death by some nymphs who think his sad songs are bumming them out. DUUUUDE their story consumed my every waking thought as a child."

Madohomu:

"madoka magica aired 12 episodes in 2011, with a sequel movie titled “rebellion” released in 2014. it’s been over 10 years since then, and these two have become the face of yuri. if someone makes a meme about loving yuri and makes a collage of example ships, madohomu are 100% gonna be present. video essays, fanart, fics, music videos and all kinds of fan projects featuring them are still wildly popular on all social media platforms.

but let’s talk about them (without going into too many spoilers, so this will be about the thematics in their relationship). they are light and darkness. the ying and the yang. forever intertwined. one would not exist without the other, yet they cannot exist together. for madoka has too much love for every living thing and too little for herself. and homura has too much love for madoka it blinds her to everything and everyone else, and she struggles with deep self-hatred. madoka has forsaken her own existence for the world, and homura has forsaken the world she created for her. the show has a lot of religious imagery, and madoka is akin to a god; there’s a shot of homura, who grew up catholic, kneeling at the feet of a gigantic statue of madoka, praying, but her hands stain her clothes. because if madoka is god, then homura is lucifer - specifically, iblis, the muslim version of lucifer, who loved god so much he betrayed him, for he’d rather defy him than bow to his creation, humans. and homura would rather defy the sanctity of madoka’s wish, rather than obey its laws, for she will take madoka’s happiness in her hands, if she refuses to. in the movie, dolls representing homura’s inner machinations yell, “gott ist tot”, for homura’s god, madoka, dies in the movie, when homura remembers that madoka was human first, and godhood was something she reached to save everyone, against her best interest and happiness. their relationship is one of love, kindness, obsession, devotion, hope, faith, worship - they are the thesis and the antithesis, the beginning and the end, the alpha and omega, an unstoppable force and an immovable object. forever locked in a struggle, never fully embracing, for madoka will always sacrifice herself for the world, and homura will always doom the world and herself for madoka."

[flyndragon]

One of the biggest problems with any half-serious reconciliation between WWX and JC is the fact that WWX's post-canon family, the ones he now loves as much if not more than JC, all have reason to loathe and mistrust the latter (LWJ - look at canon, LSZ and WN being the 'leftovers' (JC's word) he wanted put down and whose entire family he voluntarily led and contributed the most to slaughter. I don't think any of the three would 'ban' a detente but they couldn't possibly want JC (cont)

2/ in THEIR lives and why should they? WWX wouldn;t ask of of them. So how do you think the WWX and JC would manage to connect - just at Koi Tower? JL would probably like that, and it would respect WWX's other loved ones' feelings and history.

Anon, first of all - thank you for sending me my first ask? I am very much not an expert on anything mdzs, and have only written one (arguable) meta on why I like a ship. I haven't published any fanfic (due to my own insecurities, not necessarily because I don't write it, lol) on this topic either.

But, if you really want my little opinion about it, I can give you a couple thoughts! In a list, because that's how my brain functions.

1. Lan Shizui - He is going through a time after canon, but that is completely disconnected to JC! He probably has very few thoughts about the guy post-canon other than the fact that one of his adopted dads really doesn't like the guy.

He basically is rebuilding his identity as a Wen and learning more about them (implied by his post canon road-trip with WN) and is going to be busy reconciling this new identity he may have suspected was missing but didn't know about with his identity as a Lan. Jiang Cheng wasn't the only person at the siege! LQR and LXC were there too!! That's his uncle and (essentially) his grandpa! I think he's going to be way more preoccupied with the deep emotional issues from that than he will from any interacting WWX does with JC

And we also have to question how close is he with wei wuxian post canon in our fanfic. I know we as the fandom and fanfic authors love to make them act as a father and son, completing, along with LWJ, a nuclear family. But LSZ has lived the vast majority of his life without any idea he had a connection to the yiling patriarch! They share a cute moment at the very end, but he's off to find himself with WN. Lan Shizui has been raised by lan wangji and had wei wuxian as an occasional babysitter for 6 months or so when he was four, and he only has barely started remembering that time in his life.

When I look at Shizui I don't think he has the power or desire to stop WWX from reuniting with his brother. And, even if he wanted to, I don't think any reconciliation would make a big enough impact in his life such that JC was 'forced' on him. Even if jiang cheng visited the cloud reccesses, LSZ is gone. And even if they were there at the same time, would they be forced to interact? The way JC is most likely to be 'in [shizui's] li(fe)' is through Jin Ling. Which isn't going to be affected by the relationship between wwx and jc.

2. Wen Ning - Admittedly, I am the least familiar with his character out of the three you cited. But, although his big snapping moment with the golden core reveal, I don't know how specifically afraid of or pissed off at JC he is post canon. I think he mostly doesn't like Jiang Cheng for emotionally hurting WWX more than for anything involving the Wen. WN participated in the war, he knows what JC went through. I think that if he sat down for a minute and contemplated the things he said at the reveal, I think he would know they were a bit unfair. If he is going to be angry at JC for the burial mounds siege, he also has to be angry with LQR, LXC, a lot of unnamed cultivatiors from every other sect, and most minor sect leaders. Along with anger for the previous major sect leaders who are now dead.

And he wasn't even at the siege.

I think that most of wen ning’s anger at JC is on behalf of wwx, who he feels was wronged by JC. So if wwx wanted to reconcile, I highly doubt WN would stand in his way. And again, as with shizui, I don't automatically think that wwx reconciling with jc means that WN is automatically going to be forced to interact with JC.

3. Lan Wangji - Why does lwj hate jc? Seriously. You said 'look at canon', and I agree, LWJ does hate JC in canon. and JC responds to that hate with hate. It’s not hard to nail down - LWJ hates jc because of wwx. because even though he was at wwx's death and knows that JC didn't actually stab his sword into wwx, he firmly believes that the actions JC took drove wwx to his death. Its the same reason he hates himself during the timeskip.

That, and LWJ is used to being the only petty bitch in the room (cloud recesses). He doesn't have the emotional insight to recognize that sometimes yelling at someone can be a sign of how much you care. They have different communication styles, and that mostly comes with lwj judging how jc interacts with wei ying. Though we, as the audience, with wwx's pov and our own insight, see they love each other, lwj cannot. So he thinks JC is just actually being mean for no reason.

But again, like WN, he is weak for wei wuxian. if wei wuxian chooses to have a better relationship with his brother, LWJ might protest but I think he would ultimately relent.

This will mean he might have to spend actual time with JC, but ... he's chief cultivator. He's GOING to have to anyway. Not to mention, it seems like he did anyway, judging by their junior night hunt supervision.

I don't think wei wuxian would mind their continued animosity. In fact, in certain scenarios, like their night hunt chaperone death glare match, I bet he'd find it kinda funny.

4. You seem to taking specific umbrage with JC calling the wen remnant 'leftovers', and believe that he specifically wants wen ning and wen yuan to die. You probably took this specific word from chapter 73 of the exiled rebels translation of mdzs. If you look a bit closer, you can also notice that JC's next line of dialogue "I doubt you'll even return all of them". He is making this argument because he wants the brother he loves to be safe and somewhere JC can protect him. He is, throughout this entire scene, pointing out that this is a political disaster and how this hurts both his brother and the jiang. and even then, he does NOT expect all of the wen clan to be returned. He is expecting Wei Wuxian to smuggle a few (or even a lot!) of them away - perhaps people like granny and any children?

Also, wen ning is a fierce corpse who just killed some dudes. Although he did so justifiably, he is still the sort of demon that cultivators kill all the time, and wwx hasn't shown that its even possible to bring back his consciousness. We know he will, but that’s a ridiculous idea to the average cultivator. JC doesn't think he's telling WWX to kill a person at this point but a zombie, which they as cultivators kill all the time.

5. But, in the end, should LSZ, LWJ, and WN all hate JC's guts and refuse to even look at his fucking face post canon - they DO NOT control wei wuxian. WWX has met someone and listened to what they wanted him to so when he wanted the opposite perhaps three times in his entire life. If there is a reason that he thinks he should go talk to his brother, if there is a reason he thinks he should go to lotus pier, if there’s a reason he thinks his brother doesn't hate him anymore and wants to have WWX in his life, WWX is GOING to GO. That’s just his nature.

(the reasons are obviously the territory of fanfic)

WWX respecting 'other loved ones' feelings and history' does not mean denying himself of an equally important relationship in his life. Maybe it means not taking them when he goes to visit JC (and yes, I mean at lotus pier). Maybe it means not talking about Jiang Cheng to them. But it doesn't mean abandoning any hope of ever having a positive relationship with his brother again.

Reconciliation is not about them. Its not about how much hurt JC arguably caused other people surrounding WWX. Its about these two brothers reconnecting with the last person from their family living.