#my caryl bullshit that is

[peletiersdixon]

constellationsoftears >>> peletiersdixon

[riosnecktattoo]

okay I know I was being salty but I didn't realise Carol and Daryl said I Love You to eachother in the finale like I have gone back in time 7 years and I'm WEEPING

[emeryhiro]

What Daryl and Carol mean to each other

And why France may have been the best thing for Caryl

This idea has been sitting in my drafts for about six months, but now that we're only 9 days away from the Tribeca premiere, I finally decided to flesh it out and post it.

This post can be taken as part two of my previous one on what Carol means to Daryl [here], but it can also be read independently. And just as a disclaimer, this is just my understanding and opinions on Caryl and all the scenes I mention below. So grab a nice cup of your choice beverage and get comfy 'cause I had a lot to say, and this turned out to be a long one.

I want to start by pointing out some moments where Daryl and Carol got to enjoy each other's company and talk in peace.

Yup, that's all of them... a long list of 4...

I didn't realise how rare these moments were until I started looking through season after season. Don't get me wrong; I know there are countless sweet and meaningful moments that they've shared both on screen and off screen (implied), but very few that we've seen without heartbreak, grief, or danger looming over them. And even the moments in the gifs above were still sandwiched between disasters.

I've read and received many questions, such as, "Why have we had to wait all these years and are having to continue to wait for Caryl to be canon?" and "If it was going to happen, it would have happened by now." and I feel like the above gifs answer all of that.

These two have endured unimaginable pain before and after the outbreak, and throughout it all, they have been each other's light, held each other together, helped each other heal from their past, and become the strongest versions of themselves.

However, they have never been allowed to be selfish, to take a moment to think about what they deserve, or to imagine the possibility of accepting the love they want and need; why? Because they have been so busy protecting and making sacrifices for everyone else.

For the past 13 years, they have been content as long as they have each other in their lives, accepting their current circumstances as long as the other seems happy. But during all that time, they also connected in more ways than they had realised.

The major connection I wanted to point out is that their lives depend on one another now (mutually inclusive). Whether knowingly or unknowingly, they are alive at this moment because of each other. I don't mean this just in a 'save their life when they're in danger' way but also as a 'I can't imagine my life existing beyond yours' and 'I can't distinguish between my life and yours' kind of way.

I briefly touched on this in one of my previous posts about Carol [here], and the show, in general, has been a lot more open with us regarding what Carol wants, but here are a couple of more nuanced instances from the later seasons where we see those feelings show from Daryl and Carol's perspectives:

~~~~~~~~

S10 EP3 Ghosts (Daryl)

The first scene I wanted to mentions is when Alpha confronts them about crossing her border. The moment she says, "You have to be punished," and the whisperers reach for their weapons, we see Daryl shifting on his feet as he prepares to move at a moment's notice.

And as soon as Carol talks back to Alpha, calling her words "Bullshit", Daryl is already moving.

He immediately places himself between them to shield Carol in case Alpha decides to attack her.

Then, when Carol snaps and tries to shoot Alpha, Daryl grabs and takes complete hold of her.

He's not just trying to stop her; he's using himself to shield every inch of her from any possible incoming assault from the whisperers.

Once Alpha allows them to leave, he grabs Carol and her bow and arrows without a second of hesitation (leaving behind his own crossbow) and immediately moves Carol away from the situation.

Once again, when everyone is in danger all Daryl can think about is Carol, making sure she's safe and unharmed, with no concern for himself.

I also think it's so beautiful and important to point out here that while all Daryl could think about was shielding Carol, Michonne was also there trying to protect both of them ♡

~~~~~~~~

S10 EP3 Ghosts (Daryl) - Part 2

The second one I want to mention is later in the same episode when Daryl and Michonne rush Carol back to Alexandria/Siddiq for help after she cuts her arm open badly.

We first find Daryl holding onto a column outside to steady himself while he waits to find out if she's okay.

When Siddiq comes out full of hesitation and can't find the words to answer Michone when she asks if Carol is okay, we see a look of pure fear on Daryl's face.

He freezes; he's holding his breath and won't dare move or say anything because he feels like his whole reality is hanging by a thread, and in the moment, the smallest thing or whatever Siddiq is about to say next might make it all fall apart.

~~~~~~~~

S10 EP9 Squeeze (Daryl)

The third moment I wanted to mention is when Carol is hanging off the edge of a rock in the cave, risking her life just so she can try to destroy part of Alpha's horde, but Daryl finds her and is so confused and terrified by what she's doing.

He tries to tell her, to warn her that she's gonna get herself killed if she tries to go through with what she's planning.

Look at how he flinches and instantly loses his breath when her hand slips a little... breaks my heart every time.

When she responds to him by saying, "She killed my boy", Daryl's fear is now also combined with desperation because he realised that he didn't need to warn her about the possibility of getting herself killed; he realised she knew the risk all along and was in such a low place that she was almost welcoming the consequences.

What previously was a tone of alarm in Daryl's voice turns into a whisper, and he's now pleading with her. Without saying the actual words, he's begging her to choose to live again, even if it's just for him.

~~~~~~~~

S10 EP14 Look at the Flowers (Carol)

What Caryl wants is also kind of answered in 10x14, where Carol is having an internal confrontation with herself. Subconsciously, she has chosen and manifested Alpha (who is now dead) as the face and voice of the one confronting her.

Timestamp 19:10 - 20:15

When "Alpha" says to her:

"Being out on your own... you've tried it before. They always pull you back. Always wanting more. Love. Motherhood. Death. But they don't know what you truly want. Admit it. What do you want? Say it..."

Carol responded by saying :

"I want to be alone."

To which "Alpha" says:

"Yeah. That's not it."

So the question here is, if it's not love in general, motherhood, death, or being left alone, then what does Carol actually want?

It's important here to note that Carol already knows the answer to that question. She's only asking herself this question because she hasn't accepted it; she isn't being honest with herself yet.

Timestamp 33:15 - 35:20

While Carol is stuck under the rubble and can't get out as the walker is getting closer to her, "Alpha" taunts her by saying:

"Stop fighting. No matter what you do, you lose people. Sophia, Lizzie, Mika, Henry, Ezekiel... And if you go back, Daryl could be next."

To which Carol responds:

"I could never let that happen."

This internal confrontation with herself and the realization that even when everything else in her world is dark, just having Daryl and making sure he's okay is worth living for and fighting for and that it's not too late for her to start over. The acceptance that that's who/what she truly wants gives her the strength at that moment to fight again, dislocating her shoulder to get free and killing the walker that was about to reach her.

~~~~~~~~

S10 EP16 A Certain Doom (Daryl)

Looking back at 10x01 for a second, Carol asks Daryl to run away with her, but he says no and explains that life in tiny boat cabins is not for him. Then Carol presents the idea of running away on his bike instead, and he's much more enticed by his idea; however, by the end of the episode, they both agree that they can't because they still feel responsible for the people around them and making sure that they're safe against the threat from Alpha. 

Back to 10x16, after Carol went to lead the horde off the cliff, Daryl would have almost been expecting and terrified that she wouldn't come back, that she'd take this "out" and end her own pain in a permanent and self-sacrificial way like she's tried before, but this time, he wouldn't be there to beg her to come back to him and to save her. 

Once again, we find him leaning and steadying himself against a tree, preparing for the worst possible news or, as the episode's title suggests, a certain doom.

And when he sees her again, he can't take his eyes off her.

He doesn't believe his eyes at first; he looks all over her to make sure she's not hurt, but when she speaks, asking him if he's good, he finally breathes again, letting out the breath he's been holding.

The community is safe (for now) since the horde has been dealt with, and his next immediate thought is, "You still got me" and "New Mexico is still out there." He immediately brings back the idea of running away together; why? Because he now knows that this time he got way too close to losing her forever and will not be risking that ever again. He's now ready to leave everything and everyone else he cares about behind, so he'll never risk losing her again. 

He loves her so much that, once again, all else comes second.

When he hugs her, he pulls her in tighter than ever before, making sure he's holding onto as much of her as possible because he needs to know that this is real, that he's actually holding her, that she's right there, unharmed and breathing, and not just a part of a dream of what he wants to see. 

I believe he forgives everything in that instant, including her actions that led to losing Connie, because his pain is not worth causing her any more of it. He will now carry that guilt for himself, taking as much of her burden as possible just to make living a little easier for her. Because he'd rather shoulder all the pain and guilt than lose her, and because he can live with the pain and guilt, but he can't live without her. 

~~~~~~~~

S11 EP24 Rest in Peace (Daryl & Carol)

I believe the events of the season 11 finale forced them to come to a new level of internal acceptance. Seeing the people around them lose the ones they love the most started a spark, and it started to force them to have those internal conversations.

The reality began to sink in for both of them that there had been too many close calls to keep denying themselves what they truly wanted, and It's now more true to them than ever that their tomorrow isn't guaranteed.

We all expected this to be the moment they went for what they'd wanted for so long, but we were wrong; their wounds were just too deep, and their instinct to self-sacrifice was once again too strong.

A year later, we see them once again dedicating their lives to helping others, Carol taking over Hornsby's job and helping put the commonwealth back together, and Daryl setting out to see what's left out there, hoping to find Rick and Michonne and bring them back to their family.

~~~~~~~~

TOWL S01 EP04 What We (Daryl & Carol) - A Parallel

There's a pretty important parallel that I'd like to point out as well. In episode 4 of TOWL, when Micheonne asks Rick what the CRM took from him, Rick responds to her by saying:

"When I got taken, I fought, and I fought, and not just by trying to get away, but by how I would dream. I'd meet up with Carl in my dreams. And that's how I survived in here. Kept me alive... But then I started dreaming of you [Michonne]... and it kept me going... I can't live without you. Without you, I die."

It's important here to note that Rick is speaking to his wife. When he was taken away and at his lowest, he survived because when he went to sleep, he dreamed about Carl (his son) and Michonne (his soulmate) and his happy memories with them.

So what does Daryl dream about when he's taken away and at his lowest? (TWD:DD S01 EP01)

He dreams about Judith (his surrogate daughter) and Carol (his soulmate).

He dreams about Judith telling him that he deserves a happy ending too, and his very next thought is of Carol, seeing her again and being with her again because that's the happy ending he truly wants.

And what does Carol dream about when she's at her lowest in season 10?

She dreams about Henry (her adoptive son) and Daryl (her soulmate)

She dreams about the life she's always wanted, a home, a family and a life with Daryl because that's the happy ending she truly wants.

Also, just a quick mention that even Michonne refers to Rick (her husband) as her friend when speaking to Virgil in TWD 10x08 (TS: 40:00 - 41:20)

~~~~~~~~

So why is TBOC going to be any different? And why was Daryl ending up in France the best thing that could have happened for Caryl?

Because they have finally reached a point where they almost believe they've lost the other, they have been forced to feel the dependence of their existence on the others.

They have never been truly separated before, not to this extent. And what to them was previously only a fear has now become a reality.

When they're reunited, it's going to be with a completely new perspective and total understanding of the extent of their need for one another, and the idea of just having one another in each other's lives will no longer even remotely come close to being sufficient.

I'll elaborate a little...

After all these years, we've seen them constantly save one another and be terrified of losing each other. But no matter what, nothing got them to the point where they felt they needed (more than anything) to confess to the other. So far, everything they have faced during the main show has been different shades of the same thing, and the urgency was never high enough to outweigh their self-doubt and insecurities.

What France has given us is a whole new level of steaks. Where we'll find them in season 2 is on the verge of believing that they'll never be able to see each other again; this, coupled with the fact that they don't even know if the other is even alive, and the fact that the distance and time apart has given them a true taste of how much they need the other, we now have the perfect and unique recipe for something that outweighs their self-doubts and insecurities.

It's the age-old idea of you don't know what you have until it's gone. The difference between:

Watching everyone around them lose the people they love most: they empathise with them, their heart breaks for them, they may even be devastated by that loss, and ultimately, it probably makes them cherish the ones they still have even more.

They, themselves, losing the person they love most: this is something that needs to be experienced to be understood. It's reality shifting, and the pain/loss outweighs anything else.

And now, after experiencing that loss for themselves, by some miracle, they're given another chance with that person... what a way to completely shift someone's priorities and ability to act past insecurities.

~~~~~~~~

To wrap up I wanna go back to Norman's words from the NYCC TBOC press conference:

"[Carol] feels something's wrong. They have that kind of bond, where there's a lot of unspoken things that are said... the bonds that we made in the flagship show are still very strong... [Carol] can take care of herself, of course... but the bond just keeps getting stronger and stronger..."

And David Zabel's words from his interview with Entertainment Weekly (interview link):

"The main focus of season 2 for me was always Daryl and Carol coming back together and what does that mean? And it becomes ultimately a story about how we as people can save each other. She's trying to find him, but in the process of telling that story: How are they ultimately getting to a place where they're kind of saving each other?...showing what's happening inside these characters as people in the most intimate personal way"

Daryl and Carol have loved and cared for each other so profoundly, especially when they couldn't love themselves, even to the point of sacrificing their own happiness to prioritise the others. If that is not the true meaning of soulmates, then I don't know what is. And we all know that some of the greatest loves are routed in the truest friendships.

~~~~~~~~

Thank you to everyone who read through this! I know it was an extra long one, and it could have been even longer, but I've decided to post their moments from 10C separately, as there's a lot more to break down there. I really enjoyed writing this, and I'm so happy/grateful that I have this platform to share these thoughts with you all. I'd love to know your thoughts on the things I've mentioned or missed ♡♡♡

As some of you already know, I'll be attending the Tribeca Premiere for TBOC in 9 days. After that, I'd like to write and share a spoiler-free-ish afterthought for this post, including what I've taken away from episode 1, what was said during the cast panel afterwards, and my thoughts on what's to come for Caryl. If anyone would like to be tagged when that's posted, please let me know.

I'll be posting a more detailed and spoilery analysis of Episode 1 once it's actually released.

[my-mt-heart]

NYCC 23 Thoughts

I know Caryl fans are more than ready to celebrate. I am too for what it's worth. Believe me, I'm so ready, but I also have concerns that some may not want or need to hear right now. And I get it. Fandom is supposed to provide a space for us to enjoy our favorite shows and characters without real life obstacles bleeding into it. My blog has really pushed those boundaries over the past year and half, so if that's not what you're looking for, feel free to scroll on by or block. If for some reason my rants are of any use to you, however, then here goes another one. Ahem.

Four middle-aged white men walk onto a stage...

…And proceed to make complete asses of themselves.

This is my biggest gripe with TWDU right now. It perpetuates the same tired, limited perspective of the upper class, middle-aged white man in not one, but all of the new spinoffs. TOWL is supposed to be about Rick and Michonne, but it's no secret Gimple favors Rick. Dead City is supposed to be about Negan and Maggie, but the showrunner only goes on and on and on about Negan/JDM in his interviews. S2 of le spinoff is supposed to be about Daryl and Carol, but...well, I'll get to that. My point is, representation offscreen matters because it affects what we see onscreen and which viewers will be drawn to watch. Personally, I didn’t feel drawn to anything during that panel, not because Melissa finally being announced isn’t exciting, but because the people speaking on her behalf always find ways to ruin the moment.

If Gimple wasn't going to talk about his show, I don't understand why he needed to be there. If it was a tradeoff, I would've rather seen Melissa up there and hear what she had to say about her own return and her own character in her own voice. If that still wasn't possible, I fully respect that, but there has to be some other way to deliver news besides constantly relying on male EPs who don't understand what her fans value about her. I worry this is how it's going to feel when I'm watching S2. I want Carol, but not a misrepresentation of her. Greg Nicotero is directing the premiere. Okay...and what about the other two blocks? Any women/POC directors? Anyone who's going to honor Carol the way she deserves instead of treating her like an extension of Daryl's story?

So, yeah. About that title. First of all, “The Book of Carol” is an odd choice in itself. The biblical allusions are annoying because they don't speak to who Carol is as a character. I’m not mad that it implies we’re getting Carol’s POV—quite the opposite—but I don’t like the confusion it’s causing either. Let’s be clear, Carol is not a short chapter in Daryl's story. She is Daryl’s story. Calling Melissa a "series regular" is extremely poor wording, and a sincere fuck you to whoever approved it for the announcement. She is a lead with EP credit and creative input. I am so sick of AMC leaving it up to the fans to debate her worth. Tell us she’s vital to the show, tell us it’s her show, and use clear language. Stop giving her haters more ammo they don't need and stop giving her fans more anxiety they really don't need.

Honestly, it would’ve been easier to accept if S2 was formally called TWD: Book of Carol. The problem is "The Book of Carol" is not the title. It's a subtitle of a (sub)title, and it's bullshit. It feels like a scam, another way to try to convince us we're getting what we want when we're not really getting much of anything. I don’t know if they're worried about false advertising since S2 won't be a Daryl and Carol story—more like a Carol story which, again, I’m not mad about as long as it leads to a reunion and canon by the end. Or maybe they’re stubbornly clinging to the belief that Daryl’s name is what sells despite the atrocious ratings suggesting otherwise. Daryl AND Carol do sell though, so why not lean all the way into it? Why risk turning the show into a laughing stock with obnoxious titles? These characters don’t deserve that.

Another thing that worries me is how it'll be promoted. As "The Book of Carol" or Daryl Dixon S2? Is it going to vary based on who AMC is trying to placate? Is "The Book of Carol" going to be smaller than Daryl Dixon on all the key art? Including Carol in the title was supposed to show that Daryl and Carol are equals. That way, Norman and Melissa would also be treated as equals by viewers and by co-workers. This doesn't look very equal to me...

Why —why 😩— do they need to keep rehashing the filming location's origin story, and by rehashing, I mean lying about it and dragging Melissa and her fans through the mud when all we want to do is move the fuck on? I don't like that Gimple (savagely) threw Norman under the bus, and I don't like that Norman, whatever his intentions were, threw Melissa under the bus. Again, this is why we need to hear Melissa's thoughts on the show, specifically what Carol's (and Caryl's) journey will entail not just plot-wise, but emotionally. It's not fair to put all that responsibility on her to make everybody else look good, and I hope it won't come to that, but the people on that panel yesterday really weren't doing themselves or the show any favors. I was pretty unsettled by the number of times I heard the phrases "I wanted this" or "we wanted that." Has anyone ever taken the time to understand what their audience wants? Or has the show really just been a vanity project all along?

I was wary about Zabel pretty much from the start, but finally getting to hear him talk about Daryl cemented how poorly he understands who he is and more importantly what he means to fans. A man being torn between his former way of life and his new one is nothing groundbreaking. It's actually a pretty standard formula that can fit a lot of conventional heroes, but it does not work for Daryl Dixon. Daryl Dixon is not a conventional hero. Daryl Dixon is the most loyal character in TWD history, and it's been well established his loyalty is to his found family of over a decade--Rick, Michonne, Maggie, and especially Carol. We will never buy that Daryl could be torn between them and people he's only known for weeks/months. Someone who tries to force that should not be showrunning. Period. I am terrified to learn more about how Zabel views Carol because so far, it sounds like he doesn't think much of her at all. If he did, maybe he would've written something more substantial for her in the finale.

We'll see what happens on Sunday. Hopefully they'll release the S2 teaser. Hopefully it’ll provide more reassurance. Hopefully something will. At the moment it just doesn't seem like AMC is capitalizing on Melissa's return as much as they could, and they're definitely not capitalizing on Caryl yet. That being said, and I can’t stress this enough, I do trust Melissa’s judgment. If she chose to come back—and she did—it’s for good reason. The wait is going to be difficult, but next year we’ll have six full episodes of Carol trying to find her soulmate. Nobody is taking that away from us no matter how many times the men put their foot in their mouths.

[that-left-turn]

Please, I beg you, please stop posting any anons that try to invalidate Carol, Mel, Caryl or the fandom. I'm on practically any platform. That anon is full of bullshit and tries to warm up allegations from years ago. That bullshit with not speaking out etc is as untrue as their newest claims.

Please, by posting these anons you're unfortunately dragging their bullshit on our accounts too.

Can't we just outright ignore them, please. We don't need that drama. And it's always the same anon jumping from one Caryl account to another every few days.

I really love your account and how you're always interacting with people but no matter how you explain something or not. These fans don't want to understand your standpoint. For them, all Carylers are bad. So please, let's just enjoy our fandom and leave drama out of our safe zone.

If you'll indulge me, I'll explain my reasons for engaging and then, we can see where that leaves us?

I'm aware that there are anons who don't reach out in good faith. (You should see some of the asks I don't post 🫣) I'm not gullible and my response isn't about convincing these anons or having a never-ending argument. I don't want drama. I want to reach the lurkers and the passersby. People who haven't given the workings of racism much thought, or who don't have ready access to this information or a cultural cheat sheet to decipher it. Not everyone lives in the US, and TV shows and movies are not a reliable reflection of real life good tools to understand how and why something's contentious.

A chunk of time ago, there was an incident where a Caryler wrote something racist and was called out (I believe by a Caryler of Color?), but it turned into "a whole thing" instead of just an apology and an amendment. The responses from other (white) Carylers in the wake of it made me so sad. They couldn't see the problem, which is why I wrote a post that provided historical background and cultural context. Because of anon asks, I later wrote some more posts on racism (in relation to TWDU and TV/film) and on general industry practices, including some of the problems with misogyny.

Regarding the ask you referenced, someone sent me screenshots of the mentioned tweet and it wasn't from years ago. It was in the last couple of days and those pictures were racist. I still think a part of the general problem—not speaking specifically about this tweet because it's on a different platform and I have no context for the poster or the discourse over there—is one of awareness, not rampant racism. Racists so seldom are the raging, frothing-at-the-mouth kind. It's usually that nice-lady-who-lives-around-the-corner type, who's kind to children and animals. She has some slight biases that you write off because she's a good person and does all these other nice things.

If you've never been a minority—always visible and seen—in your community and you've never had to deal with insidious bigotry on a personal level because your name signals that you belong to the dominant culture, your skin tone is light, you wear no outward signs that you're Other (like a hijab, yarmulke or dastār), and you don't speak with a foreign accent or in a dialect that's considered "lower class," then it's so easy to not notice what it's like for those who deal with that in their daily life.

The visible portion of the Caryl fandom is predominantly white, so it isn't a "safe zone" for POC when someone says/does something ill-advised, even if it's about a different part of the fandom. It's a reminder of real life and that you have to behave in a way that doesn't make white people uncomfortable. If you don't, then you're a troublemaker or the one who doesn't understand that "it's not that deep. Just get over it." Getting over systematically being treated as 'less than' by otherwise well-meaning people isn't a realistic expectation—look at Caryl and their invisible emotional scars that they struggle with—low self-esteem from reinforced institutionalized prejudice doesn't just "go away."

Everyone's bombarded with subliminal messaging from the time that we're children and we absorb these "truths" subconsciously, without reflecting on the validity because we don't notice that our views are being influenced. (It's like erosion.) Which is why it's possible to say casually racist/sexist things and not be aware that what you're saying is racist or sexist. You don't consciously think that people who're different from you for one reason or another aren't fully human, but the signal you send out by using language or imagery that's some form of -ist conveys that sentiment to the person who's impacted and also that it's okay to talk about someone else in that way.

My aim isn't to throw stones at anyone or bring cross-platform drama. I would prefer it if people stopped asking me to 'do something about someone who did something on a different platform' because I'm not part of the landscape over there and I have no relationship with those people that I can use as social capital to affect anyone's behavior. But, I've tried to highlight social injustices affecting TBOC and Caryl fandom so people can see the issues, even if they're not personally affected by them.

That's why I'm also talking about how things work in the industry. I see a lot of assumptions among fans, which is understandable since it's not a field most people come in contact with. I've tried to offer explanations of how a production functions and the ways in which female creatives are confronted with sexism and misogyny. I would like for the industry to change, but for that to happen, consumers need to know what they're buying into. AMC and TWDU in particular is not a place where women want to work because the misogyny is deeply entrenched.

That doesn't mean that I want to disparage, undermine or dismiss Carol, Melissa, Caryl or the fandom. I talk about the workplace inequality and the lack of narrative integrity because I care about these characters. I want Carol and Melissa to get their dues. I want canon for Caryl because that representation matters and it could help change what we see on other shows too. (Tiny creeks turn into mighty rivers.) It's about the aforementioned narrative integrity: Caryl's emotional arc has run throughout the course of the flagship show, even if it was arrested for a couple of seasons during the Saviors arc.

A TV show isn't produced to satisfy its EPs. It's supposed to make the studio money and the only way to do that is if there's a paying audience. You have to respect the viewers. Write for them. If you distill an ensemble show into a small spinoff focused on two characters, you need to tell a story that viewers who are invested in those two characters will tune in for. You shouldn't try to weed out the audience you have in order to attract the audience you want to write for. That's a poor financial decision.

Regardless, I'm not trying to stir up drama, I promise. I hope anyone reading my posts can see that I'm not combative, and I'm not posting the hateful asks or those that have nothing to do with TBOC. I try to offer a fair perspective regarding the direction of the show. I see red flags, but I try to elaborate on why in more practical terms than "this is how I feel about it." I hope that comes across to people 🫠

[mementomorlllll]

I'm more concerned that Norman DOES have input for his show...and it IS his show. Daryl and Norman are the only ones AMC/twd are concerned with since Daryl is an original character and they make more money off him. They have always catered to Norman, many times at Mel's expense, and he has basically gotten everything he wanted re twd. Imo the only time he seems pro romantic Caryl is when it benefits him. I'm not holding my breath for canon because I don't think it will happen. We were told their relationship would be revealed/defined and it has ... With the friendship bracelet, best friend tripe. Melissa is probably fine with what she got regarding the show and billing because that's just the kind of person she is. She doesn't care about fame or billing and I can see her deferring because it just doesn't mean that much to her. Fans, however, do NOT have to be happy about it. This Carol subtitle crap and second billing is bullshit. As far as Caryl goes, I think she would be satisfied with whatever tptb decided to do as long as it was true to the character. I hate that I have kept getting my hopes up every year for canon for 11 years. I feel like such a fool being played year after year. I know it won't happen but yet I still hope. I can't watch this show... I just can't. I hate that I won't be supporting Mel and I hope more people tune in for her, but I just don't have it in me. I wish I could quit Caryl, but it's been such a huge part of my life, I can't completely let go yet. It gets easier, though, with every diss and slight of Mel and Carol. Hopefully with season 2 of DD, I can finally be free. If you don't like my opinion, block me. I just needed to vent.

#Caryl

[kryptoniancape]

Was literally just minding my business at this late hour, when Daryl’s pleading line from 10x09 just abruptly popped into my head for no reason.

“Don’t bullshit me.”

It just hit me, a whole new level of deeply—how we had a whole episode of passionate, character-driven scenes like that, and barely one actualized interaction even close to that caliber throughout the entirety of the following season.

And they thought nobody would notice. They banked that this raw, dull ache would never return, and we’d never realize that we were slowly being conditioned to feel as if lines and moments such as these were just some kind of fever dream, and in rarer instances, even grow to resent them.

I’m sorry but how is there any single viewer, Caryler or not, who watched season 11 and didn’t feel that there was something deeply wrong there?

[rubberchickeny]

Waiting for the finale

I'm starting to feel a bit antsy (like having ants in my pants) about the finale. I've suspected for a long time that any Caryl ending is likely going to happen either during(!) or after the "last" battle. I've also assumed that because it's going to happen right at the end, possibly even off screen (that would be the worst!) after the time jump, we will not be getting too much screen time. It can only be short, but I'm still hoping it will also be sweet.

But the damn spinoff! At this time, I do not intend to watch it. My main reason is, as it always has been, the butchering of Daryl's character, and after that, them trying to perhaps milk the longest slow burn ever, while getting rid of MMB and Kang. Nope.

I have some difficulties wrapping my head around the idea of Daryl and the Demimonde, "sexy underground nightclub". (At the apocalypse, really?)

I'm sure Merle had taken him into a place or few (if lower rated and cheaper than this Demimonde), and I also think that Daryl's sexuality is something that was never shown (beyond his intense looks!)

or explored in the mother show...but putting Daryl of all people in a place like that? (And that's assuming this nightclub is voluntary and doesn't work like Negan and his wives, which is another, if all too familiar can of worms.)

I can just see what Gimple would want to portray in a plot like this, and it's some macho bullshit for sure. None of the character exploring or God forbid, character growth.

I guess that all spells out that I'm wary. I still think that the Caryl confirmation must happen in the main show, or they will miss their mark by a mile. That is where their consummation belongs, as it's been the backbone of the show for a long time.

[gunmetal-ring]

I'm so sad you left Caryl fandom. You've got to do you and self-care is important, and you've been on your way out the door for a while now, so it's hardly a surprise. Still, the loss of your voice and presence in our fandom leaves an empty space.

You were one of very few people whose fics struck the right note between the heaviness and the playfulness that encompass Caryl, while still keeping them in character, so that will be missed too.

I wish you happiness, in life and your new fandom.

Aww anon 😥 you are so sweet and kind and your words uplift my spirit wow. This is one of the nicest compliments ive ever gotten

Granted i did mean all of that when i said it - i knew i was being dramatic lol but it definitely still hurts too much. Also makes me too angry. So its still how i feel now.

But...

BUT...

BUT....!!!!!!

Putting it under a read more bc holy fuck its SUCH a long fucking unnecessary response lmao sorry in advance

If - IF - the rumors are true, that caryl will be in daryl does paris, TOGETHER, with ACTUAL SCENES TOGETHER, not this whole a story/b story, trying-to-find-each-other-and-making-amis-along-the-way bullshit (amis is french for friends bc i think im funny) that lasts until the last scene of the last episode of the last season that twd loves to do...

IF we see caryl ON SCREEN, TOGETHER, doing whatever THEYRE doing, TOGETHER, on THEIR spinoff, AND they are UNAMBIGUOUSLY CANON - for those of you at amc fervently reading my blog (lol) that means a kiss on the lips with romantic intent, i.e. FRENCHING (how appropriate) and confessions of being IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER FOR YEARS AND WISHING THEY DIDNT WASTE SO MUCH TIME WHEN THEY COULD HAVE BEEN HAPPY TOGETHER, and then FOLLOWED WITH AN UNAMBIGUOUS SEX SCENE WITH EACH OTHER, bc if we can have french zombie strippers we can have a fucking sex scene...

If we get that - if we get caryl together, both in physical proximity and romantically - then i might return. If we get proof (which, apparently, can no longer be a greenlit show or pilot script or location scouting or contracts or YEARS of press or fucking talking about it IN THE MAIN SHOW) - proof such as melissa and norman posting pictures of themselves on set, bts photos released by amc, interviews with melissa and norman talking about theyre filming the spinoff and theyre having fun and how its nice to be filming together again after having collectively 1 hour of screentime together in 24 episodes, hype from amc both in print and on sm about the spinoff, promo art with them together, officially naming the spinoff as something to do with CARYL, not just daryl dixon, a table read of the pilot script (where caryl is actually, yknow, holding a conversation, not just carol talking to some french dude and daryl talking to fleur delacour), positive statements straight from mels mouth/her agents (rather than jdm tweeting angrily at 2am and norman parroting the tweet for six months that deliberately and directly contradicts mel's statement along with amc's statement), sneak peeks of CARYL TOGETHER on THEIR spinoff, things that are unambiguously proof that a) mel is back on HER show, b) carol actually has screentime, c) caryl actually has screentime, d) that theyre actually filming with the intent of releasing the show, e) that its not just daryl does paris with a carol cameo at the last scene of the last episode...

IF we get this kind of proof... not only will i resubscribe to amc+ like amc so desperately needs, but i will watch and rewatch until les vaches (french for "the cows" lol) come home.

And then you know what will happen? The caryl fandom, as always, will do the heavy lifting for amc. They will create gifs, fanart, praise the show on sm, spread the word, buy tickets to conventions, buy merchandise FROM AMC, PAY FOR AMC+, tune in to the talking dead (if thats even going to happen? I hope chris hardwick is far far away ugh), write fanfic, create fanvids, post and repost and repost this content all over sm, which will entice carylers who left the fandom due to constant ship trolling and baiting and refusal of amc to do what theyve been implying theyll do for like 8 years - including carylers who left the fandom fucking YEARS ago, as well as carylers like myself who have given the fuck up due to s11 and the spinoff fuckery - and all of this will hype up the spinoff for the general audience too. Even if GA viewers arent specifically carylers, carol is a fan favorite. Carol and daryl is a fan favorite dynamic. People want to see them together.

Amc is finally realizing that they have nailed the coffin shut with this bullshit and thats why theyre scrambling to dangle the possibility of melissa/carol in every single press release and interview they can. They are aware now of the massive fuckup that is daryl does paris. Far too late to make amends, but if they pull this off, they can save the sinking ship (lol) that is amc. Theyre losing money left and right and laying off staff bc they cant keep their fucking heads on straight, and they are well aware its bc the money they were banking on - daryl does paris - is a complete and utter shitshow and will ultimately cost them far more money than it will bring in.

The only way to salvage this is to bring back caryl. Thats it. Bring them back in the 1st episode - together - and in every single episode following that - TOGETHER. No separation, not ambiguous will they wont they, no ship baiting, no cameos.

Actually the exception to the cameo can be the last scene of the 1st episode. Ill allow it.

Wow i went off on a tangent lol. But the point remains: if they do the CARYL SPINOFF right, they will get me back in the fandom as well as everyone else who bailed.

So who knows? Maybe we have a chance. I know @weaintashescltv has been loud and proud on Twitter about what we need to see. Maybe ill even join them lol. Even tho Twitter is an absolute hellscape full of bottom feeding goblins lol

All in all... maybe ill be back.

As for the new fandom its probably a hyperfixation lol considering the main ship i have is 2 dead teenagers that would make literally no sense to ever bring back to life - altho i have to say its refreshing that both of the actors (and even other tertiary actors on the show whose characters interacted w/ had a dynamic involved in the ship!!!) have so much respect for the ship and the fans and the shippers and have spoken at length abt how they also absolutely intended for the ship to be canonically romantic. A couple ships on that show do that, actually - no trolling or baiting or inciting fandom wars or whatever.

Theres something to be said about an obsession w a literally dead ship lmao. Esp when the rest of the show is like GENUINELY good and interesting (like how s1-s5, and then s9-s10 of twd was) and not just the shop.

Goddammit another tanget. This is why all my fics are like 30,000 words longer than i intend them to be. Sorry for the word vomit lmao. But thanks again for popping in anon ilu and wish you happiness and i hope you will continue to find love and fulfillment in one of the greatest ships in television history (and in case its unclear, im talking about caryl)

💗💗💗

[doctorwholover01]

Just debating weather to rewatch EP 20 or not in my head. And I realised that TWD so far not just this season but last has been doing a lot of mirroring lately with Caryl and other people relationships. Making comparisons.

SPOILERS

So last season, 10B/ the beginning of this season we had Leah (biggest fucking knife to Caryl cause shit went tits up when she was involved) and Daryl relationship. In Find Me a lot of us seen that their relationship in the episode meant or not. Was infact mirroring Caryls. Which at the time when Find me came out was such a clever ideas because in my mind it was kinda of a fuck you to the antis who kept saying Carol was 'too old for Daryl ', she ' a mother to him' so on. We had this actor who was close in age to Melissa/ Carol but her only difference was she had died hair. Anways, in Leah and Daryl relationship we see even from the beginning they are never on the same page Daryl still has these walls up, which conveniently are down when Carol come to visit. Even in Leah and Daryl finale scene in Find Me she asks him to chose her or his family (Carol) and he doesn't. Until Carol has to take care of the Kingdom. Then he chose Leah. She was his second choice. And she is again when they met again in the whole 'reaper' arc his first choice isn't her, it's his family. His people. He tries to save her but like in the beginning there was never any trust between them and there was always walls and secrets. He didn't hesitate to kill her for his family. He made his choice.

Now with ep20 we have Lance talking to Carol about Pamela. Not just Pamela but to Carol about her relationship with Daryl (Side note can we just say thank you to Lance and Negan for being the best and pointing out both to Daryl and Carol everyone can fucking see what they are. Expect them. Thank you to them. Still sad Princess didn't have a go). In previous episode while Lance has hunted Daryl and crew and is finally stopped by Carol and her plan and is being been trialed by Pamela in those scenes man has folded like a deck chair when Pamela so much as says his name (man got the Daryl moves) even in EP 18 Pamela touches Lance face while he is talking and he all but folds and forgets what he was saying. The tention is real. Letting us know that something between them has happened. When Caryl spring Lance from his cell we see their power duo go off, having bad cop and worse cop playing out. Carol stops Daryl for killing Lance before they find out any information and in that return she gets Lance to talk. They leave the cell guards come. And Daryl tells Carol to leave ' Not without you ' is her response and Daryl tells her ' I'll figure something out ' and that longing look and she's leaves. Lord. Carol leaves with Lance and they start to walk and in a very Lance fashion he finds Carol pressure point. Which is Daryl. He says 'You were right to leave him behind, he was slowing you down' hitting that point and afterwards stating ' You aren't like most people you alway thinking ten steps ahead, it's what makes you special '. Still playing on this Carol is a lone wolf trope, but she is always ten steps ahead. Lance is giving her praise but also hitting that pressure point to see if anything can budge if he can squeeze anything. Like he did with Maggie with Hershel. He's finding that 'weakness' and using it to manipulate. While manipulating while praising he plays into 'caring' stating ' I hope dixions okay' even though he literally tried to kill him a few episodes ago. Carol sees through his bullshit. But as Lance has pushed this point he uses her family too not just Daryl as his way to stay alive. While going into the tunnel Lance goes back to that pressure point and using his own relationship with Pamela to try, again to push futher.

' I meant what I said back there, about hoping Dixions alright. It's hard to find someone like that, someone you'd do anything for. I felt that way about Pamela once. Thought I could make her feel that same about me. Helping her build the Commonwealth, run it. Having her take all the credit. Even by bringing in your communities, which I admit was mishandled. But it was never enough. I know there was nothing I could do to change how she saw me.'

He goes onto talk about the future about the children future. And so on. But like I said a lot of mirroring going on. Lance compares his unrequited love for Pamela to the situation that Carol and Daryl have. But to me, just like Leah and Daryl, Lance and Pamela had all those secrets all those walls all those power dynamic plays of which one is more powerful and more in charge than the other. Lance touches on if Pamela falls during the CW take over what would happen then. And him telling Carol before hand she is always prepared always 10 steps ahead feel like a hint to her to be the leader. That he veiws her as such. That she in a way is the Lance to Daryl Pamela. That Carol does everything, every plan, every idea, but Daryl takes that credit. Take it for granted. That not matter how much Carol does it won't be enough for Daryl to ever see her the way she would like to be seen by him. While Caryl current tention in this season is annoying to us. It's interesting having that mirroring as Carol current mind set of having to fix things she had done wrong during Alpha, like the cave, she had to find Connie. Which she thought would fix her and Daryl. She had to help fix Alexandria. To prove she isn't running off that's she's there for the long haul to prove to Daryl she's staying. Pushing Daryl back to Connie again. Trying to give him better. Trying to fix what she broke. But while trying to fix her and Daryl at every point she tries. In CW trying to fit in, she lands in with Lance, trying to get the upper hand and make a deal helping their people, he asks her ' What have you done ' so accused. It's never enough. Like with Lance and Pamela. But when they exit the tunnel unlike Pamela with Lance making him take the fall. Having him be the blame for all Sebastian done. Having him be bate to die. Daryl doesn't do that. When Lance and Carol exit the tunnel trooper are there. Daryl could of let them be taken but he didn't killing every trooper in site. For her. Again and the damn fucking look he gave Carol. LORD HAVE MERCY ON ME. Carol is shocked you can see as much. And she looks back to Lance in a mockong way of ' ha ha I wasnt left out to dry. It's enough '.

In their finale scene with Lance Carol and Daryl again play a good cop worse cop ( also side note to that whole scene can I just say that through the EP Caryl were hot right but that scene. Lord that scene. Had me foaming. Like they were just so hot thinking on the same page same wave length I couldn't with it. And the eera music that shit was dark ) but this time they play the mind games. They find the pressure point to find their family. Lance spills his guts. Because he thinks he will gain his freedom. He won't. Carol and Daryl tell him this. And in that moment I think he sees that actually they aren't him and Pamela. There is no power dynamic shift there is no walls, no secret (there is we know that) there is one soild thing. Their trust. Between them both. From Carol idea to use Lance, to her leaving with Lance, to Daryl killing the guards. To that moment. There have been no games between them only trust. And another interesting lime Lance says for the new CW campaign I like as the camera pans to Caryl is " Here, you aren't defined by who you were, but what you cane become" going back to Judith voice over introduction to the episode as it shows moments of Caryl trust and growing relationship. Carol and Daryl give Lance an ultimatum to run and survive then. But he doesn't take it. Well he does but you know Carol takes her shot with that.

The mirroring between these two relationship to Caryl I feel is so interesting because. Both of those relationships had a power dynamic shift they were never as one. Both would use each other for another purpose. To gain more. And both would kill each other if given the chance. Unlike Caryl. Who as Judith put it ' Having the strength to put someone else life ahead of your own '. Caryl dynamic has always been them working together, being honest (to an extent still got some past shit) to each other, to hold no judgement and count on to hold. To be that one person in a dying world to finally be living. To not have walls up around just leave all the piece out in the open. Carol and Daryl bond started in a broken world and grew into something beautiful. The other they are being mirrored to, compared to. Their bonds were broken before even starting.

[lola-andheruniverse]

okay TWD 11x21 was, again, an okay episode BEWARE OF SPOILERS BELLOW

I have two major complains that I guess are the major complains for everyone too:

1 - the pacing: everything is happening so fucking fast. How can we, the audience, get really worried about the characters who were captured and sent to forced labor when we know things will be resolved next week? And that their forced labor consisted mainly on...moving sticks and rocks for one day? I just can't perceive the Commenwealth as this big bad wolf. Maybe their bad stormtroopers and ridiculous town square and hundreds of no relevant side characters and no ending resources on a ZA has something to do with it . Also, I will always love a good TF reunion (Carol and Maggie and Carol and Gabriel hugs *chef kiss*) but it loses a bit of impact when they aren't separated long enough.

2 - the shipbaiting. No need to explain nothing here.

Besides that, I also would like to point that..

3 - I really need some confirmation that Gabriel and Rosita are still a couple. They were very cozy on S9 and S10 but are acting on a really strange matter on S11 and I WANT TO KNOW WHATS THE TEA HERE because this show is a ZA bad soap opera and my latin ass is engaged on their weird relationship.

4 - CARYL ❤ still as positive as annoyed about how long is taking to solve things up with them. I just want them to hug and kiss, you know? Carol just standing there, looking utterly gorgeous, loving this man who wears the same pair of disguting pants since the world has ended without any second thoughts...she deserves to be kissed. Daryl, please, I'm begging you, kiss your woman or I will.

5 - Finally someone called Negan on his savior harem bullshit! And it was Ezekiel! Very fitting, and I think it demonstrates that TPTB sometimes listen to their audience (even if it takes a couple of years to address the issue).

That's it. Praying for 11x22 be the end of the shipbaiting. Also it will be nice to see ASZ again, and I'm also hoping for confirmation that everyone's on Oceanside is dead. Caryl on!

[silversundown2]

Hey I saw your tweet about your fic chapter being delayed and just wanted to say you should never worry about that. You have written so many fics for this fandom that people can go and reread, and it is incredible that after all the bullshit of the last year you are still writing for us and posting regularly. No one would mind if months went by. We are invested and grateful that you do this for free! Thank you for being such an incredible writer ♥️

Thank you, it's been rough with this one and I really hate how easily I've started slipping behind. I never used to have any problems updating regularly but the longer we go without any news on mel or caryl, the more my motivation starts to fade.

I'm trying to fight it because I do still enjoy writing and I still love caryl. It's just a bit of a battle now. Every time I see pics of daryl in suspenders and tiny scarf I'm just like....do I even know you?? And who wants to write after that? :/

I will finish the current story and I will update it hopefully in the next week or so. Thanks for this lovely little note and to everyone that still follows along, knowing people are interested is the main reason I have to keep writing, so it really helps to know that ya'll are still invested in this version of them <3

[thegreatestcalamity]

I haven't watched The Walking Dead since Carl was killed, but seeing them end Caryl with YoUr mY BeSt fRiEnD. Give me a break. I don't care how well acted their "I love you's" were, this show was too cowardly and ageist to make them an official couple and that's some bullshit. I hope Daryl's spin off flops.

[deaddcas]

one of my favourite underrated caryl moments from the recent ep is when daryl leaves the meeting carol keeps staring after him, even after he's out of her line of sight.

also all those heated looks they shared at the base. damn they need to get a room.

[my-mt-heart]

A few people were wondering what I meant when I said Daryl’s arc in S1 could ruin Caryl’s arc in S2, so I thought I'd try to elaborate. It's probably the 5th time in the last 24 hours that I've jumped on my soapbox. I'm a little burnt out, but hopefully this makes it clear where I stand. As always, my inbox is always open <3

There are very specific qualities that drew Caryl fans to Daryl’s character from early on. There’s his devotion to Carol first and foremost, his vulnerability, and his unconventional masculinity, all of which go hand in hand. But like I said, S1 isn’t targeting Carylers. It isn’t trying to nurture those qualities that we love. There’s a reason why everybody keeps calling it a “reset.” Reset in this case is just another word for retcon.

Based on what we’ve seen so far from the marketing, S1 seems to be targeting young males whose viewpoint clashes with our own. So instead of getting the Daryl that feels natural to us, a loyal man yearning to get home to the one woman he’s always been in love with, we’re going to get an ambiguous OOC Daryl who knows he has “people” to get back to, but also finds the newbies interesting enough to feel conflicted about it. That's according to the synopsis anyway.

There's likely going to be shipbaiting, case in point the bathtub. That does not mean Daryl’s going to get together with or even have explicit feelings for a younger female character who happens to fit the target audience’s view of a love interest. I'm *very* confident that will not happen. It does mean, however, that the show will do what it can to make you *think* that Daryl could have feelings for someone else or get together with someone else.

How many times have they tried to turn Daryl into TWD’s most eligible bachelor? How much did it erase his nuances? How much did it aggravate us? And the big question is, why are we being asked to pay for more of that same bullshit we never wanted? Because it’ll eventually pay off? Okay, but how are we going to feel when Carol, who’s crossing oceans and taking lives, finally finds Daryl? Happy for her? Or sorry for her because Daryl didn’t go to the same lengths that she went to for him?

Those are my biggest concerns. 1) Daryl’s and Carol’s arcs being uneven and 2) waiting a long time for gratification that may be underwhelming again if AMC is still trying to placate everybody.

“Well, fuck, MT. That was extremely bleak and it sounds like we shouldn’t bother getting excited about Carol/Caryl.”

I am not saying we shouldn’t get excited. After an entire year of misery and uncertainty, we know Carol is coming back. She’s going to ride Daryl’s bike, she’s going to rescue him, she’s going to wear a ring that looks like the mysterious one she wore in 11x15, she’s going to walk a bridge with Daryl that’s reminiscent of Consumed. That’s all stuff to get *SUPER* excited about. Unlike S1, S2 *IS* targeting Carylers. I just don't want anything to take the wind out of our sails before we even get there.

So I think it's important to keep urging AMC to show us that #DarylNeedsCarol on the deepest of levels. Show us that this is going to be *their* show, not just because Daryl and Carol are both going to be in it, but because it’s going to continue their shared journey (a title that encompasses both their characters would be an effective strategy, I’m just saying). We still have a long wait. We still have time to change our minds.

[incorrectcaryl]

michonne: so how long have you been sleeping with carol?

daryl: wHAT?

daryl: that's disgusting

daryl: and wrong

daryl: why would i - i don't even get - i've never had sex with anyone. anywhere.

daryl: it's none of your - you have the nerve - the audacity

daryl: carol is my best friend. technically

daryl: and how - how do i know frankly that you're not sleeping with her?

daryl: maybe you are. maybe you're trying to throw me off. hmm. check and mate

daryl: THIS IS AN OUTRAGE

michonne: