#mxtx wouldn't do this to me would she??

[radiantmists]

oh god oh god it hadn't occurred to me until this moment that hua cheng persists because of this unmet wish, to protect xie lian-- and now he's done that in a huge and concrete way, and he's weak, and what if being satisfied that xie lian is safe means that his desperation isn't enough for him to hold on??

[disgracefulthings]

In defense of Yue Qingyuan

I like to start off and say that you don't have to like Yue Qingyuan, but there is an aspect of his character that many people misunderstand, and I would like to explain it

"Why did Yue Qingyuan never tell Shen Jiu that he came for him?" This was something that I was confused by at first too, and yeah, it made him look bad. I'm not a huge fan of fanfics that over-villainizes him, but if that's cathartic for some people then I get it

What made me realize why Yue Qingyuan never came for Shen Jiu was me thinking about WHY their relationship was added to the story in the first place. What did these two characters mean to the svsss as a whole?

Shen Jiu is Luo Binghe's foil, they are very similar and both fall down a dark path. That made me look at both Shen Yuan and Yue Qingyuan, and that's when it hit me. Shen Yuan did the exact same thing Yue Qingyuan did. He never told Luo Binghe why he pushed him, and while WE know that he isn't able to explain the System, there was one thing he could've done to help Luo Binghe, and that would be to tell him that he regretted it. The System wasn't stopping him from saying it, so why didn't he?

Both Shen Yuan and Yue Qingyuan kept their silence for the same reason, they thought it wouldn't matter. Yue Qingyuan failed Shen Jiu, and Shen Yuan hurt Luo Binghe, and both of them believed that there was nothing they could do to fix it. Whatever they say would only be excuses, they have already failed, and nothing would change that

They don't see that explaining/apologizing would mean the world to Shen Jiu/Luo Binghe, and because of their silence on the matter, it's sends Shen Jiu and Luo Binghe into dark places

So let me ask you this. "Why does the fandom hate Yue Qingyuan and not Shen Yuan, who did the same thing?" And the answer is pretty clear. We see through Shen Yuan's perspective throughout the book, so we understand his reasoning, Yue Qingyuan's reasoning just wasn't spelled out for us. I love MXTX's writing, and how she doesn't just explain every aspect of a character, it's up to the reader to find out. She never outright says "Shen Yuan doesn't see the people around him as people, but as characters", we see that in how he thinks. Sadly that means that sometimes things are missed, and that includes the purpose of Yue Qingyuan's character

Anyway I wanted to put this out there because I've seen a lot of Yue Qingyuan hate, and like I said in the beginning, you are still free to hate this man, everyone has their character preferences. I just find it odd when people hate him for things Shen Yuan have did, yet he isn't treated the same way as Yue Qingyuan is by the fandom

Yue Qingyuan and Shen Jiu are a tragic duo that have an unhappy ending in 2 canonical worlds, and while they are very flawed individuals, I can't help but want them to get better and be happy

[wayward-imp]

As an editor and a publisher, it is absolutely fascinating to me to watch fans of an older work like SVSSS react to the fact that it is being edited.

There are all kinds of reasons to edit an older work, and it is (or at least it should be) ultimately the writer's call what they want to change. An edit after sitting on a story for a decade is bound to bring different aspects to the fore, because the author is a different person rereading their work with an evolved perspective. I think seeing how the world tree has grown inside their evolving imagination is an exciting thing!

But at the same time, the fans have already built out that storyworld in their own imaginations and run its roots through their collective body of thought. That's a powerful thing, and the fear that some part of the world tree you have loved and nourished will be summarily pruned is a valid one for fans to have.

I'm also a fan, and I've been nourishing my own version of that storyworld for years, too. Just because the author gets to prune their version doesn't mean they're pruning mine. Although I CAN choose to reference the shape they highlight in their edits, I don't HAVE to. I just get to have a choice between two main points of reference, the edited version and the original work (plus all the fan versions and different translations I’ve encountered, because let’s not forget that translations are a kind of edit, too).

Not to dip too much into the obvious parallels here, but I just think, Airplane would edit PIDW pretty vehemently if he had the choice to do so after his years in the storyworld and all the changes to his emotional landscape.

And Shen Yuan, for all he pans the original work and lived out his self-insert fix-it fic gay little dreams… Shen Yuan would be just as scared by every little potential change Airplane might possibly make.

Shen Yuan feels possessive of Airplane's story. He pokes fun, but he still deep down loves that storyworld... and yet he wouldn't trust Airplane to do a good job taking care of it. Not even when Airplane is the one who planted and grew it in the first place!

But that's because Shen Yuan is an antifan. He loves the storyworld that he read so fervently, but his identity is as someone who doesn't believe the author can write well, and doesn't believe the story was good, so he doesn't see his own love. He couldn’t trust that Airplane would do a good job with edits because he can’t admit that Airplane actually did a good job the first time around.

I'm not an anti-fan.

I have enormous faith in MXTX's writing chops, and I'm sure that whatever edits she makes to SVSSS will be fascinating and lucid choices, even if it turns out that some of them aren't to my own personal taste, or if they prune away a detail I loved.

More to the point, though... I am really looking forward to our particular batshit obsessive fandom doing deep dives and meta-focused rereads once an edited version of SVSSS is available. We all had so much fun doing it the first time, and now you're telling me we get to go AGAIN?!

[illuminatedferret]

TGCF Reread: Prologue + Ch. 1- The Scrap Immortal

I've recently started rereading TGCF, and this time I decided, hey, why not mark up the text as I go and take notes on it all? So I'll do my best to share the various notes and observations I make here.

Favorite note of the chapter(s): Ling Wen-zhenjun is a very telling title when you know the terminology.

When that ghost appeared, it was indeed as horrifying as the legends said. It asked the crown prince the first question, and he answered with a smile. "This place is the human world." However, the ghost replied, "This place is the abyss." An auspicious start. The first answer was already incorrect.

Seems right to start out with pointing out how true this is! Xie Lian answered every single one of Jun Wu's questions incorrectly, and he ends up all the happier for it.

Ling Wen-zhenjun stood tall with her hands folded behind her back.

MXTX was my introduction into chinese literature, so I've missed a lot that a native reader, or more experienced foreign reader, definitely wouldn't have. For one, how striking of an introduction Ling Wen has! That she's introduced right off the bat with a masculine title immediately tips the reader off that she's got a story to her.

"Congratulations, you have won first place on the chart of 'Heavenly Official Most Hoped to be Banished Down to the Mortal Realm' of this calendar cycle." "Well, no matter what, first place is first place," Xie Lian said. "But since you're congratulating me, is there anything that's actually worth being happy about?" "Yes," Ling Wen replied. "First place on this chart receives one hundred merits."

...Exactly where do these merits come from? Is there a fund? Did someone donate them? Is this what happens when you leave offerings to someone who isn't actually a god?

General Xuan Zhen was the Martial God of the Southwest who possessed seven thousand temples; his name in the human world was considerably distinguished, and this General Xuan Zhen's real name was Mu Qing. Eight hundred years ago, he was a deputy general at the Xianle Palace of the Crown Prince.

And eight hundred years ago, Xie Lian had 8,000 temples! Ouch, that after 800 years, Mu Qing still hasn't surpassed him. That's gotta bite.

Nan Yang-zhenjun was the Martial God of the Southeast. He possessed eight thousand temples and was incredibly loved by the people. His real name was Feng Xin, and eight hundred years ago, he was the number one heavenly general of the Xianle Palace of the Crown Prince.

Unlike Mu Qing, Feng Xin has achieved 8,000 temples! Which has also got to bite, big time. Yet, it also makes their lantern competition more impressive, too...

There was a tea shop by the side of a major street. Its storefront wasn't big, a small operation, but what was good about it was the scenery. There were mountains and waters, people and the city. It had it all, but not much; not much, but just right. If one was to have a chance meeting here in this landscape, it would definitely become a beautiful memory.

I did some research on traditional Chinese gardens a while back, and learned a lot about how important the use -and balance of- different elements is to the plotting of the gardens. All gardens are supposed to utilize water, stone, plants, and architecture, to create a miniaturized landscape that reflects the ideal balance between man and nature. Thus, this passage is a lot more meaningful to me, now- this is a quite beautiful setting, with a lot of cultural value!

[Nan Feng and Fu Yao] were both young men of eighteen or nineteen years of age.

I'm gonna hold onto this for later. They're wearing disguises, yes, but this may be our best indicator as to how old Feng Xin and Mu Qing look!

The Upper Court consisted of heavenly officials who ascended on their own abilities. There were only about a hundred of them in the entire Heavenly Realm; extremely eminent.

This is also relevant later! 👀

But with that, I've hit the end of Chapter 1, so I'll stop the post there! If you liked reading my thoughts, keep an eye out for Chapter 2...

[marshmallowwitharubberband]

I have a complicated relationship with Jiang Cheng.

As a character, I love his complexity, but I especially love how realistically it portrays one of the real-life outcomes of growing up in a violent, emotionally-repressive environment. When every display of emotion is labeled as weakness and answered with violence, some people eventually become programmed to turn any emotion into agression, see everything as an attack, and become secretly-people-pleasers with zero tolerance to frustration.

Actually, the Jiang siblings are excellent portraits of the different outcomes of what growing up in violence can do to you: you either become small and unnoticeable to survive, you become the kindest person ever so no one goes through the same, your self-worth gets reduced to what you can do for others, you go into substance abuse...

Thinking about it, I wouldn't be surprised if MXTX studied psychology in some form because the personalities resulting of her character's backgrounds are surprisingly realistic, for the most part, but back to Cheng-Cheng.

Guy had all the pressure put on him by his emotions-hating helicopter mom. Yanli got a pass for being a woman and being "destined" to be a wife, and maybe Mme. Yu may have projected a little, maybe she thought if she, herself, was sweeter and meeker JFM would treat her better? Idk, but the fact is, Yanli was allowed to not be "strong" ('Cause Mommy Yu is definitely the type of person to equal strength to agression). WWX "didn't count" because he was just a servant, so she merely ground his self-worth into the dirt.

Poor Jiang Cheng had to bear the brunt of his mom's horrible expectations and it broke him. His agression is more like a scared animal's, he lashes out his fear and frustration as violence because it's the only "acceptable" way, the only way he learned to be taken seriously or handle emotions at all. Much like today's wall-punching macho wannabes.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jiang Cheng, in a modern AU, would be sucked into the red pill rhetoric, he's exactly the lonely, stressed, emotionally hurt and vulnerable demographic those jerks target.

So yeah, he is a complex character with very valid motivations and a horribly tragic story handled in a very realistic way, I love that.

As a person, though, I really, really hate him and admit that, at some points in the book I would skip over his dialogue because yeah, yeah, your suffering, your sacrifices, boo hoo, poor you, my god, just shut up, everyone in this place has suffered and lost and is majorly messed up, you're not special! (At least he didn't actively murder anyone)

But I am aware it's because he reminds me, uncannily accurately, of someone who irl emotionally abused me all through childhood while the other adults around me did nothing. They, too, were obsessed with what I "owed" them both literally and metaphorically, and showed their affection with criticism, aggressiveness, and irate explosions. And while I understand them more now and the cycle of violence they were a victim of, I cannot forgive their actions. And I kin Wei Wuxian too hard to ever forgive Jiang Cheng.

But I do like how The Untamed softened him a lot and took care to emphasize that he was just an insecure kid who wanted to be accepted and the universe made him its chew toy. It re-portrayed him as that younger sibling who just wants to be included in his big bro's adventures and keeps being pushed aside by everybody. TU JC is my sweet little baby and needs a hug.

Book JC can go fry asparagus.

[dontmind-thismess]

Mo Dao Zu Shi/The Untamed fanfic recommendations, pt. 2

Jiang Wanyin Fix His: Mistake by Rika (@/HarukiUsagi46)

Summary: After the death of his father, mother, sister, Jin Zixuan and Wei Wuxian, Jiang Cheng felt like there is no one left that in his family beside Jin Ling who is sleeping next to him since there is no one in Jinlintai that can look after him like he can. "Wei Wuxian, why? Why? Why? Why did you leave me behind like everyone else did? Tell me why?" "Please anyone....anyone at all.....I want to fix this....I want to fix all of this....I want to fix my mistake...." Jiang Cheng doesn't know that his wish is about to be granted. Let see what happen okay?

Tags: fixmistake, jiangcheng, jiangwanyin, lanwangji, lanzhan, mdzs, qingcheng, theuntamed, timetravel, wangxian, weiwuxian, weiying, wenning, wenqing

Status: 30 parts, complete

Searching for Perfection by AitchNKay (@/AitchNKay)

Summary: Lotus Pier is gone. Wei WuXian and Jiang Cheng are hiding in the Yiling supervisory office and Wei WuXian finds a way to give his brother his core. That's how the story went once upon a time. So what happens if Wen Qing says no. Wen Qing glared at this idiot and gave in. "Fine. I'll do the surgery. But you need to tell him first." Wei WuXian was so excited he practically danced into Jiang WanYin's sick room. She followed slowly, but Wei WuXian's voice was loud enough for her to hear the entire tale. She crossed her arms and glared some more at the liar and his ShiDi who was getting all excited himself at the prospect of BaoShan SanRen giving him a new Core. When the story ended, Wen Qing smiled, sharp as a knife. "Now tell him where his new Core is going to come from." Jiang WanYin looked completely confused. It would have been adorable on a five year old; it looked too out of place on a seventeen year old. "What do you mean?" "I mean, tell him where his brand new Core is going to come from. It's not like 'BaoShan SanRen' can create a Core for you. You should have learned enough Core Theory to know that. Logically, then, your Core has to come from another person. Wei WuXian, you should also explain exactly who will be playing the part of your mother's grandmaster." You promised!" Wei WuXian turned an accusing glare at the doctor. "You promised you wouldn't tell him!" "And I'm not." Wen Qing held up three fingers in an imitation of this irritating idiot. "I have no intention of telling Jiang WanYin the truth of who he is going to get his Core from nor the truth of who is going to implant it." She smiled again, cuttingly. "You are." And with that, she swept from the sick room, her job done for now.

Tags: bl, boyslove, chinesebl, cql, grandmasterofdemoniccultivation, lanwangji, lanzhan, mdzs, modaozushi, mxtx, theuntamed, wangxian, weiwuxian, weiying

Status: 16 parts, complete

Gege ai ni! {MDZS Chatfic} by 陈文鑫 CWX (@/Chen_Wenxin)

Summary: COMPLETED ✔️ 《MDZS BOYS Chatfic》 *Pending for extras...... Starring in the main chat: • Jiang Cheng • Wei Wuxian • Lan Wangji • Xue Yang • Song Lan • Xiao Xingchen • Nie Huaisang • Wen Ning • Jin Zixuan OOC? Yes... Definitely! It's modern now! Happy laughing! 。。。 Main pairing: Xicheng Side pairing: Wangxian, Xuexiao, Xuanli, etc... 。。。 {ADDITIONAL TAGS} cuz why not: homeboy huaisang , lwj slays , lwj bullies jc for being a clown , lxc is confused but he got the spirit , jc just wants his huan-ge , sassy bbg xingchen , girlboss yanli , jzx is being bullied but no one cares , everyone is an idiot , someone save wen ning from this circus , xuexiao is the cutest , wangxian is the coolest , when will xicheng fucking get together , cat memes

Tags: comedy, gdc, jiangcheng, jiangwanyin, jinguangyao, jinzixuan, lanhuan, lanwangji, lanxichen, mdzs, modaozushi, moxiangtongxiu, mxtx, niehuaisang, niemingjue, songlan, thegrandmasterofdemoniccultivation, wangxian, weiwuxian, weiying, wenning, xiaoxingchen, xicheng, xuexiao, xueyang

Status: 39 parts, complete

The Closest three in the world by moonlit_dewdrops (@/moonlit_dewdrops)

Summary: After the Sunshot Campaign, Yanli sees how badly Wei Wuxian is coping and shirking his responsibilities, causing Jiang Cheng to become agitated at his brother as he's doing his best to rebuild Lotus Pier but not without worrying about him at the same time. So being the best sister in the world, she comes up with a solution by tying their wrist together with a spiritual energy-infused ribbon, forcing them to stay together (quite literally) As the two brothers learn to work together and cooperate, the Jiang siblings find out much more than they bargained for about their brother.

Tags on Wattpad: cql, family, familyfeels, fix-it, mdzs, ptsd, theuntamed, yunmengsiblings

Status: 10 parts, complete (AO3 version has additional story feat. 5 extras)

Wattpad AO3

First - LXC x JC fanfic by HaiRyuuKi (@/HaiRyuuKi)

Summary: Lan Xichen met a youth full of determination and justice. He was attracted at the first sight. He fell in love at the second sight. And so, at the third sight, he...

Tags: cnovel, danmei, gdc, grandmasterofdemoniccultivation, jiangcheng, jiangwanyin, lanhuan, lanwangji, lanxichen, lanzhan, mdzs, modaozushi, moxiangtongxiu, mxtx, weiwuxian, weiying, xicheng, yaoi

Status: 15 parts, complete

[jooniely]

It's so wild to me but I've noticed with the multiple svsss fanfics I've read, people do not like Yue Qingyuan 😳 like the sv Fanfic fandom is kinda harsh on him?? It's wild to me cuz characters like Shen jiu and original Luo Binghe have fics that paint them in sympathetic light (not all ofc) but the worst Yue Qingyuan has done is not tell Shen Jiu why he never came back and not stop the abuse towards Binghe (we don't know enough about whether he truly never stood up for Shen jiu)

Some write him as this really whimpy wishy-washy way and it's like? He's a sect leader?? His sect is powerful and well known?? He would need to be good as a leader to have a sect that's so recognized!

Yue Qingyuan is not my fav character. He's meh to me but he's not really bad? (Yeah being a bystander to child abuse is bad, but that's something every single character in the story has in common)

I think MXTX's best skill is the psychological complexity she assigns to each character. My fav character to read is Shen Jiu just cuz there's so much there! Followed by Luo Binghe. And there's def fanfic writers who do these characters justice. (My fav fics to read are the Shen jiu is Shen yuan fics cuz wow the drama, the psychology, the mess, the complexity!)

My only hope is that writers can look at each character and analyze why they did what they did. Don't erase things and don't really add things? Like the entire reason Shen jiu is so interesting is that he's a parallel to original Luo binghe, he DID give him a faulty manual and DID abuse him. No need to attribute those to other things to make him misunderstood. He already has things that are misunderstood! The reason he goes to brothels, the relationship with Ning yingying, liu qingge's death. Forcing yourself to admit the good and the bad will force you to be more creative with how you go about writing these characters and potential redemption arcs if u choose to include that

Anyways this was about Yue Qingyuan lmao I ended up somewhere else with the topic but I kinda wanna hear what others think about this. I haven't read the extras of svsss but so far I think yqy never said anything about why he never came back because he was ashamed and felt guilty. Some writers have pointed out how it would feel like an excuse if he were to explain (even tho it wouldn't be, I think if he had told SJ it would have slowly mended their relationship) another mentioned how its cuz of trauma cuz what he went thru was traumatic as well and could have caused some sort of PTSD. Regardless, I don't think the way he is seemingly treated in fanfic matches his "sins" lol

[pawznacho]

Here are my personal opinions about the TGCF donghua S2 character designs!! (I don't have anything else to do with my life)

So, I've seen a lot of people hate on the new designs, especially on Qi Rong and Goushi Fang Xin's. I mean, they surprised me too, but I wouldn't necessarily say they are bad.

For Fang Xin (Xie Lian), his design and colors and stunning, it's just the mask that looked pretty weird to me, but I like how it's butterfly shaped. He's not too recognizable, so it'll do it.

For Qi Rong, yes, the colorful stripes, the purple lipstick, the little accesories, the neon green eyeliner are all absolutely needed and in character. Like, let's think about it, Qi Rong is probably one of the most chaotic and weird MXTX characters we could've met. The manhua version is a masterpiece, but the donghua is really...him. He would always comment on anybody and we also know that he is a born royalty, yet nobody said he's fancy or elegant. I'm pretty sure he'd have a terrible taste in outfits. While Xie Lian is elegant, simple and pretty restrained when it comes to outfits, our guy Qi Rong would have messy, greasy hair, unmatched clothes and jewellery, and absolutely zero sense in styling. He's technically an unintentionally funny, weird and stupid witch sitting in his own little cave with his "cheap son".

Now, let's take a look at Hua Cheng and Shi Qingxuan. Wake up, they are majestic!!

I adored Hua Cheng in his San Lang form. Our little guy looked absolutely adorable yet still like a grumpy teenage boy in love. His original form was also shown at the very end of S1, but honestly, his new design looks so much better. His hair got fluffier, and his features prettier. Also, I love how the edge of his eyepatch became more thin, it simply look cooler now!

Shu Qingxuan, my beloved, I literally love the whole design. I'm pretty sad the female version didn't get her pretty blue eyes, but she still looks as adorable as always. And the male version, it's perfect. He looks elegant, yet kind and adorable, like a true king/queen. Such a bestie material!!

Talking about Shi Qingxuan, Ming Yi is also just so so pretty. Altough I love the "dark 'n edgy Earth Master" vibe he gives off in the manhua, the dunghua version is (imo) better, we are talking about a god's apperance, after all. He's colorful, yet not too vibrant, which is pretty nice, most of the gods we can see there tend to dress colorfully in their own ways (it also makes it more visible that these people all come from different places, having their own traditional stuff).

And for Lan Qianqiu, he instantly became a Fengqing's kid in my eyes. For sure, this is not how I imagined him, I've got used to the dark hair and red accesories, but he looks really good, they did a great job with his design. No matter what, he'll always be a grumpy orange cat!

What do you think? 🦋

[tavina-writes]

i find it extremely funny that we (mxtx fandoms in general but mdzs especially) will get into huge shouting matches about timelines and research and accuracy and meanwhile she was like "the death of the nie bros' dad, an event extremely important to explaining the buildup to the war that affected literally every single member of the cast, could have happened anywhere in these five whole-ass years" and "yeah they totally had potatoes don't worry about it lol". truly airplane was an autobiographical character.

You know nonny, I DO find this intensely funny at times. My uh, main source of "shaking my head at this" happens when inevitably, meta goes around and we rush back and forth going "X WAS A GOOD PERSON" and "X WAS EVIL! EVIL!" etc, which happens every now and again and always makes me a bit like "ah, yes, it's difficult to convey nuance and also differing points of view that may in whole or in part also be legitimate and valuable to discuss on a place like tumblr/the internet in general because it is difficult to grapple with uncertainties and we often want to nail things down one way or another so we can figure out if we're right or not" <- but this often comes out as me writing a joke post. Or a saltier post than I intended. Sometimes because I'm tired and sometimes because I just happen to be a salty individual on main.

And I do think fandom is a place where like, multiple interpretations of an event or a statement or a character's "morality" and themes and choices are often equally valid. And fandom should be a place for that, that's what makes fandom fun. If there was a One True Interpretation of the text there'd be no need for interpreting text at all, and that's distinctly sad for me. That's no fun. Anyone who tries to use their knowledge to cudgel people into the One True Interpretation is wrong, btw.

Though I think, and here's where I feel that research and accuracy is a nuanced thing and should actually be of consideration for meta/fic/engaging with fandom in general, and why perhaps people strive for it -- the "lol, potatoes" and "poetry from whatever era I want" is fun! MXTX, however, is still writing about a fantasy version of her own culture, which offers along with it a foundational basis of knowledge that makes this...easier? And again, here's where the part of me that does enjoy these anachronisms and inaccuracies (because they're fun and since we have flying swords why not potatoes) wars with the part of me that's also like, "okay but there is a difference between 'not knowing enough to be respectful of the background surrounding the characters and why that might inform their actions' and 'I've decided that peppers, which did not exist in Eurasia prior to the Columbian Exchange are a big thing here now.'" The difference is respect. Different members of fandom will draw this line in different places and it hits different on different days.

And this is one of the struggles of engaging with foreign language media a lot of the time - we try to strike a balance between engaging with it based on our own experiences and backgrounds and not accidentally saying anything offensive or strange or 'that would totally never happen' or 'he would not fucking talk like that' and I've found, with my time in this fandom, most people who are concerned with accuracy and research are largely trying to be respectful and avoid such gaffes.

Over the two or so years I've been here, I've also reacted to people who've insisted their interpretation is the correct one when it was definitely a case of 'the version Chinese culture that I'm familiar with 200% does not work like that', and saltily wandered off to vent about how 'this is inaccurate and also rude' or try to explain why it wouldn't happen like that. Maybe this comes off as preachy at times, or overly concerned with "accuracy," but that is typically where that sort of reaction comes from for me. I expect this is probably true for other people as well!

And by no means like, do we only engage in fandom because we want to be educated or educate others, and by no means is that an obligation of any fic writer or meta writer or casual fandom goer. We engage with media because it engages us, and we engage with fandom because we love community, and sometimes its no more complex than that.

I enjoy research and art history so that's typically why this appears in my fic, and I started out on doing it to better connect with my own heritage, which I've found more important to me as I've gotten older, so that's where it comes from for me.

Apologies nonny, this was probably not the answer you were looking for and I do commiserate, I'm just chronically unable to be funny on main. 😔

TLDR: there's always nuance in everything unfortunately. Even if this is the no nuance webbed site.

[symphonyofsilence]

It never ceases to baffle me how the fandom can use a certain logic to achieve one desired conclusion (see: MXTX wouldn't make an openly gay character in a homophobic world a harasser, so MXY hasn't actually harassed JGY) even if it goes against the text itself (MXY admitting in his diaries that he has harassed fellow Jin disciples) while the same logic doesn't work for them the other way around in the favor of the character they don't like (while MXTX would not do the aforementioned case, she would, however, make the character that is the son of a sex worker, and continuously discriminated against, considered dirty, belittled and ridiculed for it throughout the story a groomer who led a teenager MXY on so he could later accuse him of harassment) while this too, goes against the text (again, MXY admitting he has harassed someone in his diaries (he might have very well mentioned Jiggy in his diaries but not as Jin Guangyao, or Lianfang-Zun, Sect leader, or Xiandu or anything that WWX would know. but with the name MXY would call his older brother. maybe "ge" or something. then, if he had mentioned him in an inappropriate way, WWX wouldn't have made the connection that MXY was talking about his real brother), the text offering nothing to prove the contrary, JGY most likely wanting to avoid any rumors that would relate him to incest, the text going out of its way to give us info about JGY's nonexistent sex life in 3 different occasions, even though we had no business knowing about it, the first mention being literally in his introduction, when it's said that he's known for being extremely loyal to his wife, unlike other men in his position (showing us that he's traumatized by his father's behavior and would never repeat it), then at the Guanyin temple when he says that he's never touched QS after finding out the truth (if he's loyal to Qin Su, and hasn't touched QS for more than a decade, then by now he's essentially reset to factory settings and is a virgin again), then when his mother is offended again and Xue Yang offers that he should fuck the offenders' moms and JGY says that he's not in such habits and Xue Yang confirms that yes, that's not JGY's ways. Even when they're being openly villainous and have nothing to hide from each other. and I don't think it would be too much of a reach to think that a teenager in a brothel who looks notably like his mom and would be considered a "pretty boy" in ancient times with no child services would not be a stranger to nasty looks from grown men and thus would have trauma related to grooming.)

of course, the logic is flawed in general. Because MXY has allegedly committed harassment in one form or another and JGY did force a group of sex workers to rape his father to death, and then to continue even after his death, and then killed them all. Because the cycle of violence is one of the recurring themes in the book. And is broken by only a handful of characters, and even then in some of their cases not in all aspects.

And I won't even open the can of worms that is the Yunmeng Shuangjie. (because apparently, JC is toxic and bad for WWX even pre-time-skip because...he jokes around with his brother?...but WWX is not toxic and bad for JC when he jokes around with his brother? (this has a simple reason, and that is that nobody is toxic and bad for someone else due to joking around in a harmless way, especially among siblings.) And JC and WWX have a toxic relationship and can only break up because JC just keeps nagging WWX, while WWX causing trouble for JC & their sect every second of the day because he does whatever he wants and says whatever he wants in front of whoever he wants is not stressful for JC. (again, The Yunmeng bros themselves enjoy this dynamic. Or at least think the other parts of their relationship is worth putting up with these annoyances. WWX annoys JC every chance he gets and actively kickstarts JC's naggings. JC's life is dull and dark and boring without WWX's shenanigans and the dramas he causes. He himself thinks that having WWX in his life is worth the trouble. JC makes WWX more responsible, while WWX makes JC more carefree. they're good for each other.)

So as we saw, usually, when a certain logic doesn't work both ways it's because it's flawed. make sure to not use a certain logic in your determination to defend a character that should technically work for the character you hate, too.

[veliseraptor]

I vaguely remember reading in one of your answered asks that you were never particularly interested in Qi Rong as a character. Why is that, actually? I would have assumed that he ticks quite some of your boxes of 'interesting', complicated sibling/cousin relationship with the protagonist included!

trying to remember when I would've said this! it must've been on my first or maybe second read, because I wouldn't say that's the case for me anymore. I think initially I had a hard time with Qi Rong because of the intense secondhand embarrassment his character gave me - which is definitely intentional, he's meant to be a bit (in the parlance of kids these days) cringe - but I got attached to him pretty fast. and having just reread his last bit in book five (I can't recall if he comes up in the extras), I am feeling that affection afresh.

I wouldn't say he's one of my babiest blorbos or anything like that - the secondhand embarrassment remains. but I am fond of him. he has rights. he's absurd and over the top and his complicated and messy Xie Lian feelings definitely give me feelings. he's not a good person but he's not

and he's such an interesting figure in terms of what he's doing storywise, too. he's not a protagonist, but his villain status is questionable at best. he can be categorized most accurately as 'a nuisance' in some ways, but he's not just there for comic relief, either.

and the fact that MXTX takes this character who could be and in some ways is an absurd caricature and gives him at least one moment of pathos - even this guy has depths, she says - makes me wanna scream.

also: ships lang qianqiu/qi rong a little. quietly.

[vrishchikawrites]

Aren't JC's thoughts and fears pretty normal and that he has the right to think that the first thing Wei Wuxian should have done upon resurrection is head to Lotus Pier and explain himself? When family members start dying, aren't explanations in order?

JC trusting WWX so much is one of the things that added to the tragedy and keeps him up at night. He lets his brother get away with so much! He's just less stringent about orthodoxy and willing to roll with it if WWX says everything's under control. Wei Wuxian couldn't keep up the pretense forever, but he still managed to last as JC's right hand for THREE FUCKING YEARS without JC catching on just because he trusts WWX that much. WWX isn't being fully honest, but JC trusts that he knows what he's doing and means well and so just rolls his eyes when WWX says shit like "The more you ask me to do something the more I don't want to" and goes day drinking without helping with the rebuilding while JC works late every night.

When WWX breaks out the Wen in what is a political disaster for Jiang Cheng and is doing mad science just because Wen Qing asked when JC asked him fifty million times to teach even just one sword class, JC lashes out and gets his feelings hurt but agrees to the ruse. After WWX broke with the Jiang, it's Jiang Cheng's idea to give him nephew naming rights so he still feels included in their family, and then WWX loses control and kills the father of said nephew which is a little awkward emotionally. But even then as furious as he is he doesn't take the pledge with the others and holds his disciples back, and then WWX hits Yanli with a zombie and JC has to hold her as she dies in his arms. Jiang Cheng continued to trust and love Wei Wuxian and keep him included in their family throughout the entirety of the first life and then his entire family died and he started questioning this decision.

Even the whole consent issue with JC is wild because he should have just told him. He would have understood considering JC himself sacrificed his core.

Um.

That's a whole lot of CQL and fanon you just dropped into my inbox, love.

The novel was pretty explicit when it described what was happening immediately after the war. WWX not putting any less effort. In fact, majority of the new recruits joined Yunmeng Jiang because WWX was standing there behind JC.

WWX DID have it under control. You may want to read up on that ambush scene a little more.

Cause. Dude. Jin Zixuan may have died but no way was it 100% WWX's fault. You don't just lunge at someone surrounded by 300 armed men trying to kill him and ask him to peacefully walk into a trap, all the while siding with the asshole trying to kill WWX.

There's a two year gap between the rescue of the Wens and the ambush. During that time, WWX was just chilling and keeping the Wens alive. Not a single incidence of any loss of control reported.

Fifty million times? I don't recall reading it once in the novel but I went and confirmed it with my friends on Discord too. And nope, didn't happen. It is CQL bs. So is him drinking away and being drunk. Because in novel canon and according to MXTX herself, WWX's drunk self is virtually indistinguishable from his not-drunk self. The only time he is remotely tipsy is during the bathtub incident (if you know, you know.)

Doesn't take the pledge? Holds his disciples back? More CQL bs. He was there in the ceremony watching them burn the people who saved him burn alive. He also knew exactly who were in the BM, including a fucking toddler.

Remember a-Yuan? And his grandmother? Who had her fucking head caved in? And who was thrown into the bloodpool with no proper rites and rituals?

Who lead that siege into the BM?

Jiang fucking Cheng. He LEAD. They wouldn't have been able to pull it off without him.

And JYL? Dude. Do you understand the situation at all? Thousands of people gathered for the sole purpose of killing WWX and the 50 people he protected. They attacked first. WWX retaliated. JYL ran into an active battlefield, no one knowing she was even there. The first hit was an accident. The second was her protecting WWX.

Do you understand? That was foolish choices made out of desperation from the only other person alive who truly loved WWX at that point.

WWX lost control after that. Rightfully so. But even before that, the situation was messed up enough to warrant ANYONE snapping.

Love and trust? You understand JC nearly strangled WWX to death? And then gutted him in a staged fight? WWX literally had to stuff his organs back in? And he declared him the enemy of the cultivation world? And blamed him for rescuing people instead of keeping his head down? His entire family died because the cultivation world is messed up, not because WWX is uncontrollable. The Wens attacked CR unprovoked. They would've done the same to LP. And they did. WWX just became a convenient scapegoat. It is funny how the fandom takes JC's delusional rant about it being WWX's fault so seriously.

JYL died because she ran, unarmed and untrained, into an open battlefield, where WWX facing thousands of cultivators determined to kill him and just 50 old or infirm people, alone? And that she threw herself forward to protect him?

JC's grief about losing his sister and parents is understandable, but let us not ignore the huge part he played in the mess post SSC. Even the villian called him out on his stupidity.

There's a reason why no one but Wangxian is rewarded at the end of the novel. No one but them deserved any measure of peace after their colossal fuckups.

The consent argument is done to death. I won't rehash it. And JC didn't know he was gonna be losing his core. If he had, he wouldn't have fucking moved from his place.

We all know what happened after the GC transfer was revealed to him.

He just blamed WWX and tried to hold him to a debt that shouldn't rightfully exist in the first place.

I've read the novel before it was even translated by seven seas. I still remember what the og canon JC is like. Unfortunately for many stans, JC *is* an antagonist seething in his resentment and jealousy. And he remains that way till the very end.

[admirableadmiranda]

So, I read an answer you have given to another question about WWX owing the Jiang Clan debts and you mentioned Changse-Sanren having a debt owed to her by Lan Queen, Jiang Changze and Jiang Fengmien. And it brought up a question I had. In the Xuanwu of Slaughter when WWX is distracting the beast so the other Sect Heirs can escape and Su She pulls his shit and LWJ jumps in to help WWX and gets caught in the mouth. WWX jumps in to save him (bless these chaotic gays😮‍💨) Would it not be reasonable then to assume that the Lan Clan owes WWX a debt for saving LWJ, but the other Clans/Sects do as well for saving their heirs lives? And IF they do, how can the Clan/Sects that claim to be 'righteous' and 'honorable' move against WWX later? Is it all just hypocrisy? Or is there more going on here that a common western reader wouldn't understand?

Hi anon! I will do my best to answer your question clearly as we are moving beyond things I know super clearly.

So basically with life debts is that they are owed from a person to a person. Jiang Fengmian owes Cangse-sanren a life debt, so this is why him taking in her son would be closest to repaying it. Jiang Cheng owes Wen Ning and Wen Qing a life debt, which is why he should owe it to them to help and it speaks poorly of him that he doesn’t. Given what goes on during the Xuanwu cave, the debt would not be owed by the whole Lan Clan, but just Lan Wangji to Wei Wuxian, with the caveat being that a life debt can be repaid for example by taking in their child, which is somewhat what we get with A-Yuan, BUT!!!!

You say even yourself in your question that they save each other multiple times, so you’ve sort of got your own answer there. They have no debt to each other both because they are good people who would do this regardless and because they are mutually saving each other at the same time. A life debt is usually sprung when someone who isn’t in the same situation comes in to help at personal cost anyway. This is why the one between Wei Wuxian, Jiang Cheng and the Wen Siblings exists; Wen Ning was not involved and chose to get involved to save them. Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian were both trapped in the cave, so there’s no debt, only an alliance.

As for how the Lan could turn on him at the siege? It is largely hypocrisy, a poorly translated motto (@jiangwanyinscatmom please help me I have forgotten exactly what the Gusu motto actually means) and (in my opinion extrapolated from hints in the text and an interview with MXTX where she says what happened at Wen Ning’s execution was not an accident) the manipulation of the Jin in order to get them at a position where they would move against him. I firmly don’t believe it’s coincidence that when Wen Ning went berserk at his execution that him mostly killing the Lan and Nie that were there despite the lion’s share of events caused to him were caused by the Jin, and the fact that they already had Xue Yang who Wei Wuxian compares the needles in Wen Ning’s head and Song Lan’s head and verifies that they are the same, it’s not a difficult theory to justify. The Lan do give into mob justice, but I do believe they were dragged in by Jin manipulation to get all four great clans on their side for the siege.

That does not make what they did excusable, but it’s certainly not a chain of events that I see easily repeating especially given what happens in MDZS proper. The fallout of Lan Xichen and Jin Guangyao’s sworn brotherhood will definitely have an impact on the clan that will likely shake out for the better in the future.

As for whether the other clans owe Wei Wuxian for saving their heirs’ lives? I mean probably, but it’s hard to say. Again, they were all trapped in the same situation, Wei Wuxian included. But incurring a life debt isn’t just as easy as helping put someone in trouble. You have to do more than just be there at the right time.

Also Lan Wangji would never want Wei Wuxian to feel like he’s holding some kind of debt over him. :P he gets very mad about that.

[cairoscene]

fic writer meme

thanks em @uhuraisgay and lore @megafaunatic for the tag <3

How many works do you have on Ao3?

between my accounts, a nice tame 18 total

2. What's your total Ao3 word count?

217,330 lol

3. What fandoms do you write for?

i definitely write for fewer fandoms than i'm in, so in the past it was mxtx danmei novels and now it's batman (current obsessions pending fic...)

4. What are your top 5 fics by kudos?

what else is there? (mdzs)

2. you'll know, you'll fall (tgcf)

3. send to all (batfam)

4. one word from you (mdzs)

5. to recollect and long for (mdzs)

the wangxian monopoly....

5. Do you respond to comments?

not anymore :( i used to respond to every comment i got, but it ended up being too much stress. so i read and appreciate every comment i get, but i only really respond if someone asks me a question or needs clarification on something

6. What is the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending?

i don't really write unadulterated angst and i'm a lover of a happy ending, so i guess it would be bring the ashes to me......... my fic which famously has no ending at all...........and in fact leaves xie lian in a Pretty Bad Place.......... oops

7. What's the fic you wrote with the happiest ending?

probably you'll know, you'll fall, which i briefly reread not too long ago and. well. to those who continue to enjoy it, i treasure you. i will say i tied up every possible loose end in that fic including?? giving xl a job at sqx's hotel management firm????? let's just say i would do it differently now

8. Do you get hate on fics?

honestly no, never, just the occasional rude comment. i delete and move on

9. Do you write smut?

with varying degrees of success, yes. i like to think i've gotten better over time. writing porn is an aspect of craft that really fascinates and interests me, figuring out what i like to read vs what i like to write, balancing titillation with characterization and finding where the two lean in and kiss. half of my private bookmarks are random fics where the sex scenes just worked for me and i must squirrel it away to study under a microscope to figure out Why

10. Do you write crossovers? What's the craziest one you have written?

not really, and i don't tend to read them, either. i think they're really hard to pull off successfully and generally my brain isn't on board with reconciling irreconcilable world-building aspects just for the fun of it

11. Have you ever had a fic stolen?

i don't think so? there was definitely...... a trend of let's call it Unattributed Inspiration in the mxtx fandoms, where any fic or tweeted idea or headcanon that got passed around would inevitably show up in the tag without attributing it to the originator. i remember reading a fic and enjoying it and then suddenly being like Wait...... why is this familiar? and discovering it was very clearly inspired by one of mine lol. i wouldn't call it plagiarism bc let's just all calm down, but it isn't a phenomenon i've encountered outside mostly mdzs fandom, let's put it that way

12. Have you ever had a fic translated?

yes!!!!!! mostly russian and mandarin. i feel like being asked if someone can translate my fic (or podfic it) is the highest possible praise and i'm always very flattered

13. Have you ever co-written a fic before?

i was going to say no at first but then i remembered that @bluecrystalrainingdaggers helped me write a charity fic back when i wasn't really feeling wangxian but needed to fulfill on the charity raffle we ran. she basically gave me the outline and i wrote it and i would never have survived without her

14. What's your all time favorite ship?

i am a fickle creature, so i don't have one. i have ships i return to over the years when i crave a specific dynamic, like kirk/spock and wolfstar and damen/laurent. in general my ships fulfill a specific need i'm looking for, hualian for the comfort and care, ghostbat for sustainable toxic soulmates, [redacted] for the angst and misunderstandings, vashwood for the doomed clowns etc etc etc

15. What is a WIP you want to finish but doubt you ever will?

bring the ashes to me. sorry

16. What are your writing strengths?

i think i can write a good sex scene

17. What are your writing weaknesses?

plot :( dialogue :(((( sitting down to write at all :(((((((((

18. Thoughts of writing dialogue in another language in fics?

i feel like i don't have strong opinions on this front. it seldom bothers me but when it's done well it's a really great element

19. First fandom you wrote for?

on ao3, mdzs. on fanfiction.net the musketeers (2014) and that wizard one

20. Favorite fic you have written?

i'm really very fond of lover be good to me. it's one of my least accessible fics on account of the rarepair but i had a lot of fun writing it and i think the final product is pretty satisfying. i feel like i was able to say and explore everything about the ship i wanted to, which is really fulfilling

tagging @englishsub @vinelark @eggmacguffin @90kon @yuebings @floofyfluff @deadchannelradio and anyone else who wants to do it

[fixielixie]

all of mxtxs redblacks have their thrown in hell character growth and perseverance moment. hua cheng for 10+ yrs, luo binghe for 3/5 yrs, wwx for 3 months. the difference between these is interesting to me tho, both the length of time and the narrative reasoning behind each of them.

LBH and HC are looking for power. both of them have a person they're fighting for and are determined to met at the end. they want to prove how strong and reliable they are, in the past they were too weak to protect the one they cared for so are willing to go through anything if it means they’ll b more powerful. they also want to get back at a world that stepped on them and held them down when they were weak. HC and LBH have similar motives and thus spend much more time trapped, gaining the most benefit from what could only be a pretty harrowing experience. neither of them can or are willing to leave until they’re so strong that no one can get in the way of what they want.

meanwhile wwxs time in the burial mounds is not comparable at all. there's no strength to be gained there, just desperation im certain that if wwx hadn't had the determination to pay the wens back for what they did to LP, he wouldn't of have the will to break out the burial mounds. wwx was also the only one who had to physically break himself out. both lbh and hc had the tools to escape. lbh and hc had something to prove when they escaped and it's what kept them going throughout the yrs they spent trapped. wwx couldnt have spent years in the burial mounds, because he wouldn't have survived it. it's clever writing on mxtxs part to have it be 3 months the differences between wwx and the other redblacks show just how well mxtx understands these characters and their motives, and also how carefully she planned their character arcs. wwx needed something to force him back into the war, something that gave him the power to do so. and his time in the burial mounds made this possible. without being caught by the wens and thrown in, he nearly certainly would have just became a servant to the jiang clan.

[mqfx]

id love to hear your thoughts on jyl! freudian or otherwise, with however many mentions of soup that you prefer 🥺🤲

just saw this :0 well i wouldn't say that i have many intelligent thoughts about jyl anymore especially since i don't really get the chance to talk about mdzs / cql much so i'm afraid i'll have to disappoint you on this count (which makes me a hypocrite i know)

but i did go insane below this line so watch out!

but i will say again what i said a few weeks back about us (fandom, society--you choose) missing out on a broader richer storytelling experience (?) when we continue to look over women's stories to get to the "more interesting" men because "well the author made more content about them so there's more to work with". not gonna belabor this point bc many have already pointed out that people will come up with all sorts of elaborate headcanons to talk about mr. blorbo who showed up in the back for ten seconds but nary a word to spare for the women who did quite a lot of narrative heavy lifting. did you know that i literally found a fic where wen chao becomes a ghost and gets together with qi rong in the underworld? do you see the same effort given to women with a similar level of narrative importance or prominence?

in this case part of it IS the fault of mxtx; more named men have died in mdzs than there are named women characters in it altogether (and even then, most of those women died too!). let's count:

women: wen qing, granny wen, jiang yanli, yu ziyuan, luo qingyang (mianmian), baoshan sanren, cangse sanren, a-qing, madam jin, jinzhu and yinzhu, meng shi (jgy's mom), qin su (jgy's wife). i bolded the ones who are dead by the end of the series (total: 13 women, 11 of whom are dead)

"important" men who died: wei changze, jiang fengmian, jin guangshan, jin zixuan, jin zixun, jin guangyao, jin rusong (child), su she, wen chao, wen zhuliu, wen ruohan, wen xu, wen ning (came back), song lan, xiao xingchen, xue yang, nie mingjue, wei wuxian (came back), mo xuanyu (total dead: 19, or 17 if you don't count the resurrected, 16 if you don't count the child)

13 total women characters vs let's say 16 dead men. and i'm sure i missed a few (<- nearly forgot xue yang) but who cares right now. what does this say about mxtx's priorities as a writer, or at the very least how women figure in her imagination?

''but charlie! they had a great impact on the narrative!" this is true. without meng shi's suffering there would be no raison d'etre for jin guangyao. without baoshan sanren's teachings there would be no xiao xingchen and song lan's tragedy, and no a-qing means we wouldn't even have known. no cangse sanren means no wei wuxian means no story at all. no wen qing = no core transfer. no jiang yanli = no jin ling, no yunmeng brothers, no heart to tether them from falling off the edge of morality (both have committed heinous acts in war regardless but jiang yanli represents for them why they had to do it. she's their home and their family that they fought to protect--and for what!) i could go on with each one, but my point is that if you take even one of these women out of the story, it all falls apart, right?

so why don't i hear anything about them?

and because you asked and i love you, let's focus on jiang yanli here: WHY is she more often than not excluded or otherwise glossed over in all the myriad discussions about how tragic the yunmeng brothers are? was she not also their sibling, their family? did she not also suffer the war and the near-total wipeout of her sect? the death of her husband? she DID but no one seems to give a shit about her unless it's to fucking call her SOUP as if that's the only thing she did!

no paragaph-long popular elegiac posts on her experiences and the incredible fortitude it might have taken not only to withstand all that but to do so with nothing but forgiveness? (speaking of forgiveness: that she forgive jin zixuan at all? out of unwavering love????) because it's not easy to stay kind in regular real-life conditions let alone what she had to face, on top of which was the daily terror that she might lose the last three people in her family she depended on as a non-powerful woman in a misogynistic society. how much of this was because mxtx couldn't be assed to develop her character, and how much of it is actually because despite what mxtx might have written, most people would not even notice because she's a woman?

the thing with interpreting fictional works or talking about characters is that you can't accurately pinpoint how much of the character was authorial intent, how much is your projection, and how much was a happy accident. what makes the curtains blue? i could just as easily say that "jiang yanli was the strongest character in mdzs because unlike the men who used their pain to justify their descents into crimes, heinous acts, and corruption, she (who had suffered equally or worse) managed to remain steadfast to her principles" as i could "jiang yanli remained static as a character because mxtx couldn't think of a way to develop her, or otherwise didn't give a shit about her role aside from sacrificial lamb for wei wuxian's and jiang cheng's pain".

but we can't even get to those goddamn discussions when people refuse to take her as seriously as they take their fucking war criminal beeboos so i'd be wasting everyone's FUCKING TIME