#misogyny in live action

[confusedgoldenflower]

I’m so glad we’re starting to call out fandom misogyny (and racism etc) out more often, love to see it, hate to see internalised issues be perpetuated through fandoms.

Wanted to add—since I’m in 2024 now, that a different misogyny is also seen a lot on the live action side. It’s like people demand cartoonish, over the top expressions from female (/femme) characters because “she’s so bland, what even is this acting.” Even though when men (/masc) do it, “oh, they’re so good,” “he’s so hot with his focused eyes.”

No, the CHILD actors in the Atla LA weren’t the best of the best, but chill, damnit, understand and accept even if it makes you uncomfortable, that not EVERYONE (and a considerable population with tysms etc) fucking emote like in a children’s book.

This is seen especially with Bella in Twilight—it’s a good example since that’s the main thing everyone harped on, no I don’t think she’s a good character (or that it’s a good series)—when there were better things to pick apart.

It also perpetuates this harm on ND kids and people, specially afab/femme, that you HAVE to animate, and masking IS harmful to people. It actually is.

And all that over the top smiling dancers (from ballet to contemporary groups) have to do is absolute bullshit. I’ve never seen where male performers have to do that.

Afabs/women/femmes have just as much range and lack there of as male/masc/amabs, and should be allowed it.

Just—fuck, you’re choosing to bother about a character/actor over their FACE!? Really? Not their character arc? Not if it fully missed the mark—which it shouldn’t because directors etc? Not the plot?

Ok rant over

in which I get progressively angrier at the various tropes of atla fandom misogyny

tbh I think it would serve all of us to have a larger conversation about the specific ways misogyny manifests in this fandom, because I’ve seen a lot of people who characterize themselves as feminists, many of whom are women themselves, discuss the female characters of atla/lok in misogynistic ways, and people don’t talk about it enough. 

disclaimer before I start: I’m not a woman, I’m an afab nonbinary person who is semi-closeted and thus often read as a woman. I’m speaking to things that I’ve seen that have made me uncomfy, but if any women (esp women existing along other axes of oppression, e.g. trans women, women of color, disabled women, etc) want to add onto this post, please do!

Keep reading

[burst-of-iridescent]

not to beat the "sokka's misogyny" disk horse even further into the ground, but while i agree with the take that sokka being sexist logically doesn't make sense, i would go further to say that the water tribes themselves being sexist is both illogical and thematically contradictory.

the flaws of each nation in atla have always been linked to their element, and specifically what those elements represent. fire is the element of power; power, left unchecked, leads to imperialism and authoritarianism. earth is the element of substance and stability; stability, prioritized too highly, creates and justifies the rigid class system and rampant corruption of ba sing se. air is the element of freedom; freedom, taken too far, becomes irresponsibility and abandonment.

meanwhile, water is the element of change... therefore the water tribes cling to antiquated ideas about gender roles instead of adapting with the times (especially when the times involve a fucking war going on).

not only is this unrealistic, it also breaks the thematic pattern of the nations' flaws being virtues taken to extremes, and how this dovetails into the show's overall message about the importance of balance. if we're keeping with the pattern of virtue and vice being two sides of the same coin, then the flaw of the water tribes has to be related to change. and here is where some of the (badly executed) ideas in the comics and legend of korra could have come into play: change, left uncontrolled, can lead to progress... but at the cost of tradition and spirituality.

(imagine a nwt cut off from the world and forced to rely solely on itself, ingenuity and creativity flourishing out of sheer, desperate need. imagine a nwt where waterbending is nothing more than a tool, used to build and defend and maintain a fortress always at risk, its spiritual origins slowly lost to time. imagine a nwt more military than community, whose architecture and technology far exceed anything the world has ever seen, who look down upon their less advanced sister tribe, and see no need for the avatar - after all, where was he when they had no one but themselves for the last 100 years?

when warned that the fire nation is coming, they show no fear; they have held strong on their own for the last century, bolstered by their weapons and wits, and will continue to do so. you need the spirits, aang implores, and is met with derision, for there is no place for spirits in a society always chasing more, greater, better. the spirits have not helped us before, avatar. why would they now? we are all we need.

when the moon spirit falls, unprotected and forgotten in an abandoned, rundown spirit oasis - so do they.)

not only would this fit better thematically, it would also ensure that the nwt's flaw plays a role in its own downfall. where the fire nation's warmongering resulted in the poverty and suffering of its own people, and the earth kingdom's corruption led - at least in part - to the fall of ba sing se, the misogyny of the water tribes is never shown to negatively impact them in any way. the north isn't defeated by the fire nation because they relegated half the population to healing. the south doesn't suffer raids or lose their waterbenders because they (supposedly) didn't let women fight. this lack of narrative punishment means that - outside of a few girlboss moments for katara - the sexism of the nwt isn't significant to the overall story whatsoever.

furthermore, while the ba sing se arc last almosts half a season, and the fire nation's actions drive the entire show, this supposed systemic oppression of women shows up for one episode in the first season before disappearing entirely. pakku is reminded of his lost love, magically turns into a feminist, and somehow the entire tribe follows suit? no one else protests, not even the other students or the chief?

and yet, though there are still no female waterbenders other than katara, or agency for kanna in her relationship, or any indication that women stopped being forcibly betrothed - the entire issue is simply swept under the rug and never brought up ever again in the show. i understand this was a children's cartoon made in 2005, and that even having female characters openly speak about and challenge misogyny was a radical feat for the time and genre, but the reality of patriarchy is that it's structural, sustained and immensely difficult to resist - if the show was going to depict that resistance, it should have done so with greater depth and nuance, as it did for many of the other difficult topics it tackled.

ultimately, handwaving misogyny away like it never existed is far more disrespectful to katara's character, her fight against injustice, and the girls who saw themselves in her, than simply toning it down or removing it could ever be.

[firelxdykatara]

I actually really don't want to hear anything about how 'overcoming misogyny' is a major theme in Avatar: the Last Airbender when "The Fortuneteller" exists and the ultimate thesis of that episode, in the context of the show as a whole, is that if a girl is in unrequited love, it's cringe and kinda pathetic and she should move on cause the boy will never want her; but if a boy is in unrequited love, he just needs to be patient and wait for the girl he wants to come around cause he's a hero and how could she not?

Its secondary thesis is that you need to make your own destiny and not rely on someone else's words to tell you what your life has in store...if you're a BOY; if you're a girl then what the fake psychic told you will actually determine your ENTIRE life even if you are only fourteen years old.

Meng's existence really would have been the final nail in the coffin for Kataang even if the arc of the ship in Book 3 weren't so abhorrent to me personally (sorry but I have higher standards for romantic relationships than 'the girl is completely oblivious to the boy's advances for the entire show, is actively distressed when those advances become more pronounced, and then her feelings are resolved completely off screen between episodes so that the boy can get his prize in the end')--because her relationship with Aang is deliberately paralleled to Aang's relationship with Katara, and yet Meng, the one-off character, learns a lesson which Aang is quite literally told he must learn in the Book 2 finale... but he never ever does.

Aang has an entire season to internalize that lesson and come to terms with it--that maybe she doesn't have feelings for me and that's ok because I still love and care about her and that's enough--but he never even comes close. His possessive attachment to her gets worse, culminates in the EIP kiss, and Katara just capitulates because we're meant to believe that she went through the entire development of her romantic feelings for the love of her life off-screen between the penultimate episode and the four-part finale.

This was misogynistic even in 2008, and the idea that the show truly had anything meaningful to say about sexism/misogyny when uncritical and unchecked misogyny was baked into its very DNA (assuming we're meant to agree with Brychael that Kataang is 'in the DNA of the show) is just laughable to me. When it comes to 'overcoming misogyny' the show doesn't actually say anything more profound than 'girls can fight too!!!!!'

And that wasn't good enough for me then, it certainly isn't good enough for me today.

[dodecademons]

Funny how like 90 percent of people wanting the wilds back hate to acknowledge the fact that it's partly their fault. I want the wilds to be renewed as well, however if I DARE say yall aren't ready for it and a small part of me thinks some viewers are undeserving I'm the bad guy. Right because the vast majority of you didn't openly admit to skipping over the boys parts in the show, smh. If you arent watching the whole episode why would they want to renew it? They want views, they want money. Do I want the wilds back? Of course. Do I think the gretchen clones deserve it? No. Be better.

[le-panda-chocovore]

They really erased Sokka's misogyny and it's fucking weird. He met Suki and he just admired her ? He doesn't have his sexism getting beaten out of him ? It immediately jumps to idolatry and romance ? Where's the character development in that !!!

[baking-cha05]

i feel like we need more stories where the characters at first are very flawed and have issues to them, then as the story progresses and finishes, the characters are better, yet still flawed.

And people should understand that not everyone is perfect at first and accepting our mistakes is the key to progress.

[lilisouless]

I am not going to say who, but this is very loser behavior

This was a heart given by a famous actress. It’s okay not liking a cast

Just compare Jess Alexander who refused to indulge the “you should have been Ariel” comments, clearly being a shade against Halle. Granted Jess and Halle are friends, but Jess not only didn’t indulge the comments, she straight up blocked people; this actress is on her thirties and allowing a shit comment over a relatively new actress on her twenties and i find this extremely insensitive considering she must know what is like to be new on the industry and at this point it’s common sense not adding to a pile of someone that already is experiencing tons of misogyny and racism

I am not going to say who it is because i refuse to start something , i don’t want a dog pile and I don’t want to be the one to start it. I was scrolling on tiktok and it popped on my recomendations , this is not something she is saying out loud (which is why I don’t feel comfortable exposing her) just showing on this “like” reaction , maybe she just wanted to agree that she would be a good Snow White but if that’s the case then she should have been careful

[fandomshatepeopleofcolor]

tiktok has been hating on the live action snow white's actress so much lately.

weird how when beauty and the beast came out, Belle's actress said many similar things and i haven't seen half the criticism for her. why could that be 🤔

I'm sorry but I don't remember what Emma watson said but like I think this has a good rundown of the situation of why Zegler has pissed off so many ppl.

mod ali

[dragonballevolution]

IVE FINALLY FINISHED MY COLLECTION OF THIS DRAGONBALL EVOLUTION FIGURE LINE......!!!!! ALL SEVEN OF THEM... AND i got them with accompanying oozaru parts so i have the full oozaru fig too :3

[allmyusualtricks]

my most unpopular atla opinion is i don't think it makes that much of a difference sokka's arc with misogyny being cut. even in the original it lasts very little and gets solved a bit too fast

i think it wouldn't translate well to live action for him to be sexist and then unlearn it all in a day. it worked better in the cartoon because of the format and it wasn't as important as people make it sound like

[mg549]

god i wish season 2 of h2o wasnt unwatchably misogynist 

[saintcarlyon]

unpopular opinion: the live action Avatar:TLA hasn’t abandoned Sokka’s gender issues, they’ve just focused more on how young men limit themselves when they look to one ideal of masculinity. He almost botches things with Suki due to embarrassment of not being as trained as her. He downplayed his ingenuity at Omashu. All to be what his father was and what he felt his village and culture expected of him. It’s not toxic masculinity but it is still damaging because it denies him fulfillment.

And that is an issue that feminism cares about and hopes to address.

[cosmicthoughtzalign]

The new adaptation for ATLA will be ass because they refuse to acknowledge that their audience is mature enough to understand the intricacies of gender issues. Which is SO important in society rn, especially with the alarming rise of incles & misogynoir.

They had one job 😭 No wonder the original creators left, I would too

[iceyrukia]

wish women would stop thinking that having the perfect argument to convince men that misogyny is real will end the patriarchy. Stop treating men as the judges and jury when they are the very perpetrators of atrocities against womankind.

[cherubdulce]

it icks me when people mischaracterize bi.g ma.ma to be an abuser towards Yoshi when she really isn’t shown and it’s all because she’s supposed to be a villain? I mean yeah she did abducted yoshi which is not justified.. BUT That’s one hell of an accusation to make 😭 when it’s shown that they’re still happy together when Yoshi was in the yokai city and both STILL HAVING FEELINGS AFTER THEIR REUNION ON THE MANY UNHAPPY RETURNS EPISODE. there isn’t much flashbacks but it was shown that Yoshi was happy to be a battle nexus champion let alone a celebrity in the yokai city. It was also implied that he can walk freely in the city when he was talking to mikey where he got his haircut and that mural his fan painted him

[besnouted]

NO wait this is my last point actually even though i’m on a tangent now. but i do think it is at least somewhat related to people’s inability to let go of punitive justice. like we could kill every bigot that means us harm in one fell swoop, and that still would not change anything. that would not do anything. the machine will just keep churning them out

you have to kill the machine or it doesn’t fucking matter