#mike doesn't know how to fix this but that doesn't mean no one else can figure it out

[noihavenosanitythanksforasking]

so this is based on my ramble in the byler discord but im gonna try and compress it into something readable n shit

So in the recent panel with my king Finn Wolfhard, my boy dropped a hint. A very important hint.

"The differences? Mike's a lot more brave than me. I don't think I'd be out there in a different dimension trying to save my friend and be in gunfights and stuff like that. Yeah he's way more brave than I could ever be."

A different dimension??

So Mike is going to the UD in S5. Im very unsurprised and im sure you are as well but lets fuckin talk about it bc holy fuck.

So I know this is the byler community but listen to me when i say, hold my hand and look me in the eyes when i say, I highly doubt that this friend Finn is talking about is Will. ESPECIALLY if byler is canon. Finn is very media trained and you can read legit anything he has ever said about the show and know how good he is about keeping secrets. If this friend was will we wouldn't have mentioned it. It's too close to the danger zone. He would have said something like 'i dont think i'd be out there fighting monsters and risking my life' or something like that. Which is much more vague and can apply to all seasons.

My theory is that this friend is max. CALL ME CRAZY. it could be anyone and I dont have exact reasoning on why its Max other than the fact that shes the only friend actively in danger rn and i adore madwheeler friendship with my heart and soul. But imo its def not Will and its not El.

Now if you go through the main characters there are only (if my memory is correct) 3 characters who havent been to the UD yet.

Lucas, Jonathan and Mike.

Other Characters:

El- Season 1 during the school battle (possibly sooner in the lab idk)

Will- all of s1 duh

dustin- season 4 with eddie

max - season 4 when she was vecna'd

nancy- season 1 in the forest or in s4 with robin and steve to kill vecna

steve- watergate and with nancy and robin

robin - season 4 with nancy and steve

hopper- im p sure hes been more than once but season 1 to find will

joyce- same thing i think shes been more than once but to find will in s1

So Lucas, Jonathan and Mike.

What do these 3 characters all have in common.

They are all a part of one of the main relationships that had issues in season 4. And what are these problems? Lets assess.

Jonathan is stressed because he doesnt want to go to the same school as nancy. He wants to tell her but he knows that she'll give up what she wants to be with him. He doesnt want to hold her back. Nancy feels shut out and afraid that Jonathan doesnt love her anymore. She wants to be together but she doesnt want to put Jonathan in a situation where he has to choose something over something else. They are having issues communicating.

Lucas is stressed about max because he wants to be there for her. Max is shutting him out due to the fact that she feels unworthy of his love or because she is scared of getting hurt and attached to someone. Lucas is hurt because he feels max doesn't trust him. They are having issues communicating.

Mike is stressed about about two people. El and Will. And for this brief moment we're going to look at this in a non byler pov. Mike is stressed about El because he doesn't know what she wants. He wants them to be happy but they aren't and he's not sure how to fix that. He also doesnt ask. Communication issue. Mike is stressed about Will because they aren't talking the way they used too. They dont tell each other anything anymore. They've drifted and Mike doesn't know what's going on anymore. Communication issue.

Interesting.

Thoughout the series the UD has been used as a symbol of all the hard things. Depending on what theories you believe (*cough* lonnie *cough*) this can have more or less meaning but lets assess how going to the UD has affected two of these relationships so far.

Jancy-

Jancy in season one was very tense. they were not friends for a good part of the season. They had constant issues with each other and fought a lot. Then barb goes missing. Will goes missing. They go to the forest in an attempt to figure it out. And Nancy ends up in the UD. Her going into the UD and making it out alive is the catalyst for her and Jonathan to get past their differences, to see each other for who they are and to put their pride aside enough to work together and appreciate the other as a fellow person.

Lumax-

Lumax had a lot of issues with communication and not being able to understand each other in the beginning of s4. They couldn't see eye to eye no matter what lucas did and max was very shut out. Then Max get's vecna'd and comes back. And then lumax finds the strength to communicate for the first time in the season, to see where the other is coming from and allow the other to be there for them.

So what does this mean for Mike. Well, both nancy and max had something that they we're struggling to overcome. A fear that they couldn't escape. Nancy's was barb and Max's was billy. Jonathan and lucas both have something they are afraid to express. Jonathan's is that he wants something diff than nancy and Lucas is that he wants to be there for her but doesnt want to intrude. All of these characters were pushed to solving these issues because of the Upside down (well jancy's recent issue hasn't been solved yet but ykwim).

Mike is going to go to the UD. Which is going to push him into a state of giving in on holding back his feelings. He's going to have to overcome something

El wants to be together, to be happy.

Will is afraid of his feelings, afraid of letting himself want what he wants and being hurt. He feels unworthy of love.

And Mike doesnt want what El wants. Mike loves Will but he is afraid of intruding.

So anyways thats why mike going to the UD means internalized homophobia thanks for coming to my ted talk i'd love to hear yalls ideas :D

[brionysea]

the importance of "we make our own rules" just clicked

[libraryofgage]

Saw the Barbie movie the other day and Billie Eilish's "What Was I Made For" (click the song title to listen to it lol) hit so fuckin different good lord. Anyway, it's perfect for Steve angst with a dash of platonic Stobin and romantic Steddie fluff so ;)

---

Steve is five when he learns that he was made to keep his parents together. At least, that's why his mother made him.

He learns it one night when his father is staying late at the company (before his mother started accompanying him all the time, leaving an empty house and Steve behind; Steve can confidently say his presence did, in fact, fix their relationship: it gave them something to unite against). His mother is three large glasses of red wine in, draped inelegantly on the couch and slurring her words with a glassy film covering her eyes.

"Steven, you were supposed...supposed to make him stay," she says, her fourth glass of wine dangerously close to spilling across the white rug. "An-and he's still gone! What did we do wrong?"

Despite the use of "we," Steve knows very well (even at the age of five) that his mother means "What did you do wrong?" He doesn't have an answer for her--he never will--and that seems to be just one more thing she holds against him.

Steve is seven when he learns that he was made to keep the family name strong and respected. At least, that's why his father made him.

He learns it when his father brings him to work, his stern expression and tense shoulders telling Steve to behave himself, to be seen and not heard the entire day (he did, and it worked a little too well; after falling asleep on the couch, his father had forgotten him at work, leaving him to spend the night in the locked office). His father is sitting at his desk, expensive pen in hand and phone just hung up after a tense conversation that ended with the most genuine smile Steve has ever seen from him.

"Steven, I hope you've been paying attention today," he says, placing the pen on the desk and fixing him with a suffocating gaze. "You'll be working here one day, and I expect you to make something of yourself when you do. You're to be a model man, someone I can proudly introduce to others."

When his father says proudly, Steve knows he means that he can't do that now because Steve has yet to make something of himself. Steve nods once, says a firm but not too loud, "Yes, sir," and his father goes back to work.

Steve is sixteen when he learns Nancy made him her boyfriend for...for a distraction? Because it's what was expected of her? Because she was curious? At least, that's what Nancy seems to be saying.

Honestly, Steve isn't sure she knows, either. But she definitely knows that he wasn't what she wanted, that he wasn't what she expected, that he couldn't live up to the expectations she had made for him.

Either way, he learned it over the course of their relationship, but it all hit him at the very end, when fights and names (idiot, asshole, and dick, to list a few) compounded into a breakup that left him aching, angry, empty, hurt, and desperate to know what he did wrong.

Maybe then he'd be able to save himself from making the same mistake over and over. Because it must be him, right? It must be something he's doing; if only he could figure out what that is.

Steve is seventeen when he learns that maybe he was made to be a shield. At least, that's how he understands the plan Dustin comes up with wherein he calls Steve their tank.

He learns it when they're huddled together at some point, readying to face demodogs and whatever else the Upside Down has decided to throw at them. Dustin is explaining the plan, his eyes bright as he throws around terms Steve can't recognize. "And Steve is going to be our tank," he says.

"What's a tank?" Steve asks, at least certain they don't mean the military kind of tank.

"Like a meatshield, duh," Mike tells him, the explanation short and quick and then disregarded in favor of the rest of the plan.

Maybe Steve should have felt hurt, but part of him is more excited by the fact that he could do well as a tank, a meatshield. He could, in fact, be made for that role. He's great at taking a punch, great at jumping back to his feet, great at putting himself between the kids and whatever wants to kill them.

The only way he could possibly fail at being a shield is by dying, and he doesn't plan to die just yet.

Steve is eighteen when he wonders if maybe he's made to love. At least, that's a realization he has after befriending Robin, getting tortured together, and learning he doesn't need romance to love someone. It's a realization he throws himself into wholeheartedly one day when he looks at Robin and sees her trying to drink a slushie with a Twizzler.

"I think I love you," he blurts out, unable to hold the words in and feeling bad for it when Robin subsequently chokes on Twizzler and Cherry slush.

She spits out the slushie, tosses her Twizzler into the cup, and spins around to look at Steve. "We've definitely talked about this, dingus," she says, narrowing her eyes in suspicion. "You got amnesia or something?"

Steve rolls his eyes and pushes her. "Not like that. I mean, like, a friend. I love you, Robin. You mean a lot to me, and I hope we're still friends when we're 80 so we can make fun of other people in our nursing home."

Robin breaks out into a grin that she quickly suppresses. "Ugh, affection," she sneers, turning her nose up. It lasts all of three seconds before she glances at Steve from the corner of her eye and adds, "I love you, too, dingus."

Steve is nineteen when he decides that he's made for love, to give and receive and bask in its warmth. At least, that's what he decides when he's with Eddie, sprawled across his bed and listening to the mixtape he made for Steve.

They've been dancing around each other for a while up to that point: obnoxiously obvious flirtations, finding any excuse to brush against each other or share space or lean together, creating reasons to hang out with some as simple as "I'm just bored." Steve has been enjoying it; they both seem to understand what's inevitable, and they're just taking their time getting there.

And right now, listening to Eddie sing along to Metallica, Steve thinks that he wants to stop dancing around each other and dance together, instead. So, he turns onto his side, places a hand on Eddie's arm, waits until Eddie is looking at him with a bright smile and curious eyes, and says, "I was made for loving you."

Instead of the joy Steve was expecting, Eddie just looks confused. "How'd you know that was the next song?" he asks.

"What?"

"On the mix tape. I Was Made for Loving You by KISS. That's the next song," Eddie explains.

Steve blinks and frowns. He sits up, throws a leg over Eddie's hips, and settles on top of him. Eddie doesn't look surprised, since it's not the first time Steve has done this. Usually, it just means Steve wants him to pay close attention. "I didn't know it was the next song, Eds."

It takes a few moments for Eddie to fully understand what he means. And Steve gets a front-row seat to the confusion that morphs into understanding that morphs into amazement. "Oh," Eddie breathes, pushing himself up to rest on his elbows. "Could you say it again? I don't think I heard you the first time, Stevie."

Steve snorts but humors Eddie anyway. "I was made for loving you," he says, softer this time and leaning closer.

"Yeah, much clearer that time." Eddie's grin is wide and blinding before he closes the distance between them. "I was made for loving you, too, sweetheart," he whispers back, his words pressed against Steve's lips and searing into his heart.

[clanwarrior-tumbly]

Ello! Can I request Fnaf movie Mike meeting like a Homeless kid who lives in the pizzeria who gives him tips and tricks to survive headcanons? Basically to confuse the robots they like wear the head of a offbrand/prototype Crow animatronic? They just chill and goof around but remain out of sight from the famous man behind the slaughter and his daughter? :3

Ever since you've made Freddy Fazbear's Pizza into your "home", you quickly learned the ins and outs of the establishment.

You knew what times the animatronics automatically started their shows, where all the security camera blindspots were, how to make a pizza quick and easy, etc.

Above all else, however, you knew how to avoid those robots so they didn't try to make you like them.

Normally, they'd be protective over children--they weren't hostile because you were a homeless kid breaking in and living there.

It's the missing kids themselves.

They've visited your dreams, and every time it ends the same way: with Cassidy asking if you wanted to "join" them and getting frustrated when you refused.

You learned what happened to them and communicated via drawings for a while...until you accidentally broke something, which made them assume you were deliberately trying to destroy the place.

So you've been playing a sort of cat-and-mouse game since, often pranking them and thwarting their attempts to capture you, but never meaning anything ill by it.

If anything, they seem to like these little games, too.

After reading some old employee handbooks, you discovered that the animatronics have a programming glitch that makes them confuse humans for endoskeletons without suits on--and they'd use lethal ways to "fix" them.

Conveniently, you've found a costume head of a crow (likely from a partner of Freddy's or some ripoff brand) backstage, and after successfully tricking Foxy with it...you realized how helpful this could be to the security guards who've applied here and "vanished".

Fastforward to when you meet Mike, fully aware he's the next guard to possibly die (the last one got himself killed before you could even properly warn him in advance--not that he would have believed you anyways).

He's understandably concerned bc you're just a kid who's all alone here with no family, and given his trauma....he suddenly feels like he needs to protect you.

Instead, though, it's the opposite.

"Slide that toolbox in front of the floor vent."

He eyes you strangely, wondering why a kid was bossing him around. "...why?"

"Trust me."

The second Mike does that, he jumps as something starts growling and slamming against the vent's grates, clearly trying to get out and failing as it retreats soon after.

"What the hell was that??"

"Probably just rats." You innocently shrug. "Or Mr. Cupcake who seems especially hungry tonight."

"I'm sorry....the cupcake moves?"

You realize he's absolutely clueless, so you tell him about the animatronics and their routines, showing him the crow costume head.

He's impressed that you know so much about this place (like you were an employee), but he doesn't believe they're capable of doing any harm until later on.

When he brings Abby, you easily see through the facade they're all putting on for her, but you play along with their antics while building the pillow fort (although you avoid talking or looking at Vanessa, never trusting her nor the yellow rabbit your "friends" spoke of).

During the final night where you both rescue her from Chica, you urge Mike to use the crow mask to trick Bonnie and Freddy.

He was certain it'll never work.

They couldn't be that dumb....surely they'll know it's him trying to sneak backstage..

Plus the mask was stuffy and heavy, and he just think it's easier to taze them.

But at your insistence, he tries it on and is shocked when they stare at him for a moment, before continuing their scheduled "show", completely unaware of his ruse.

It does make him wonder how you figured that out all on your own..

[castleclerics]

will byers and selflessness, selfishness, and fear

too much will mischaracterization i'm seeing recently from both will haters and will lovers so let's get one thing clear: will is selfless at his core, he is a selfless person. however we do see him start to dwindle in that department in s3-4 in certain situations. HOWEVER that does not mean he cannot come back around, in fact it's inevitable that he does, and quite exactly—and i can’t stress this enough—EXACTLY where his strength will come from in s5.

first, the van scene. will is both selfless and selfish during it, sacrificing his own feelings so mike knows he's needed and so his and el's relationship can bloom. however, he is literally putting words in el's mouth (even if he assumes that these are things she genuinely feels since that’s what he feels for mike so it only makes since his gf does too, doesn't make it ok.) and using her as a shield, there is no way around either of these things.

next, will not standing up to el's bullies or for her is “selfish” in a way, especially since partly the reason he doesn’t is because he’s scared of being a target. especially with the classroom scene, they literally show the girl flirting with will and him rejecting her, reminding the audience of his sexuality right before the bullying starts, once again staying in the shadows, el being his shield.

(also btw, lucas doesn’t stand up for his dnd friends when jason becomes aggressive with him for the same reason, he wants to blend in and still not seem like a nerd. but obviously we see him by the end of the season accept who he truly is and stops running from himself.)

they show this three separate times. it’s not that will should’ve stood up for her all of those times, but more of the fact that he had three chances and took none of them. he could’ve stopped each time from progressing into something worse and didn’t, queueing the viewer into showing that this is something he has to change, and will. he knows the right thing to do, even cries for el, and doesn’t do it like he most likely would. even with the s1 bullies, the party who are all targets stick together and face the bullies as one. it's because will’s trauma has made him freeze like a deer in headlights in a crisis. then once the bullies leave two separate times he tells el “it wasn’t that bad.” also saying that he and el will fix her project together, instead of preventing the destruction from happening in the first place because of his own fears. (also yes he does walk outside literally as they’re destroying the project, but i think it was purposeful, bc he wouldn’t have stepped in anyway if he saw the whole situation from the start.)

there’s also room for nuance, (? if that’s the right word) he’s a 15 y/o kid, one who’s gay in the 80’s and we don’t even know the extent of his UD and pre-show trauma yet but we already know he has literally been through hell and back.

his trauma strips him of who actually is, that's what trauma literally is until you are able to face it. you can forget who you once were before it got its hands on you. i mean, we literally have this scene about fear starring will:

there’s a reason they give us three separate shots close up too of will looking at the el’s bullying situations go down, they are that of how he freezes when he feels the mindflayer. showing he chooses not to act because of his fear. will’s current character is completely driven by it. so is everyone else too, but will’s fear is one they have outwardly highlighted for the whole series as it builds, and it is more destructive to himself and others than almost anyone else in the show, the anyone else’s being the “villains” so to speak. however he will not fall into the trap, he will take responsibility and fix the messes he’s made. that’s literally **why** he takes center stage in s5.

they establish in s1-2 countless times that he can be selfless, and it actually comes very naturally to him, even before the show's events take place. why do you think they make sure to drill that into your head just before he leans into being a little selfish in certain ways? it's been reiterated by the duffers so many times that his coming of age is in s5 and that "this emotional arc for him is what we feel is going to hopefully tie the whole series together." so he obviously will be able to get back to that place. once he does and faces/accepts his trauma instead of freezing and hiding/lying and stands up for others AND HIMSELF and learns to love himself, he will finally come into the core of who he is again and better than ever. he is going to really have to push himself and that is what will make it so beautiful to watch unfold. he’ll being casting fireball once again instead of protection like he currently is.

i don't understand why all of this is rocket science to some people. it's almost like he's a complex character and his journey is far from over or something 😱😱 he’s also not a character that can “do no wrong” but his trauma makes it completely understandable but the show won’t excuse away his actions. he will utilize it in s5. we are on his journey with him seeing from his pov. there’s a reason they make you sympathize with him even during scenes where he may be more self-centered. it shows what is wrong with society instead of the characters themselves, bc isn’t that the true monster after all? at the end of the day he doesn’t mean to hurt anyone—even though he does, and definitely feels the guilt of it—he’s just absolutely horrified and hasn’t yet pushed himself to do the things he doesn’t want to, that he knows he has to.

(i think also noah does a beautiful job of reflecting this in will making himself smaller and very stiff while being in a more grown body in s4, you can literally see little will in all of his movements and mannerisms and it's so obviously incongruent with his bigger body. he also only moves his arms and legs so far out of his own bubble usually keeping them to his sides as much as possible, literally showing he’s stuck and hasn’t yet grown into his own.)

[byleraddict14]

Hello, my fellow Stranger Things fans. I have unfortunately reread one of my own posts and sent my mind spiraling and needed to recap on this. I will state I am a huge Mike defender simply because there's a lot about his character that tends to get ignored. Now, to begin with his relationships with his fellow party members. First up is El

Now, I have seen over the years a lot of hate for Mike's relationship with El, and I don't just mean the romantic aspect but also the way they function as a couple. In seasons three and four, there was a lot of comparing Mike to Brenner and the controlling her and what she likes. Max told her to find what she likes, not what Hopper or Mike liked, but what I find interesting is Mike never actually forces his likes on her. He doesn't force her to play DnD or dress a certain way. Let's be honest her lack of clothing options are completely on Hopper. He is her guardian and didn't ask what she would want to wear. It was also never specified whose idea it was to lie about curfew it was just assumed El not spending much time with everyone else was on Mike. To be honest, El has a tendency to tear down the things Mike enjoys. El made fun of his singing, and he didn't sing again after that. He also began to believe DnD was childish after they started dating, but that's kinda on him. I have also not once seen El ask Mike what he likes or thinks. Even her letters are all about how she's adjusting and Will acting weird but not a single, How are you and what are you up to. Mike tends to get locked in a box and his wants, thoughts and feelings are ignored.

Next is Lucas, and while I love Lucas, he can be very self obsessed. When he got upset about El joining, he didn't ask Mike why he was keeping her around or what he was thinking he just assumed Mike liked her and wouldn't let it go. What's worse is that after all the trap he gave Mike for letting El join the party, he turned around and did the exact same thing with Max. Lucas completely ignored Mike's feelings or even asked why Mike was so against her joining. Remember, Mike was still dealing with losing El and possibly his mind because he kept seeing her around. What's sad is that Lucas and Dustin both disregard Mike grieving for El. They both behaved like he should just be over it by now without actually talking to him about it. Then, we move on to Lucas volunteering to fix Mike's relationship. Mike was fine with letting it go and moving on until Lucas made a big deal out of getting El back. Mike could have gone against him, but any argument Mike made Lucas just ignored, never actually asking his feelings on the breakup just assuming Mike wanted her back. Then comes Lucas obsession with being popular and taking Mike and Dustin with him despite them stating several times they had no desire to be popular. When the bullying started, Mike tried talking to him about it, but Lucas just brushed him, stating he wouldn't understand. This is one that really irritates me. When people assume just because their not in the exact same situation, someone is incapable of understanding. You don't have to go through an identical situation to know how some feels not to mention. Lucas may not know the extent of Mike's bullying or everything done to him. Therefore could not say Mike wouldn't understand.

Dustin tends to get a little tricker because while he can be observant, he can also be wildly off base. For example, Dustin said he met Mike, Will, and Lucas in the fourth grade, therefore making him not Mike's best friend because Mike knew Lucas longer. Now, what I find funny is Mike and Will met Lucas in the third grade one year prior to meeting Dustin therefore but Dustin's logic of time determines Mike's bestfriend Lucas also doesn't fit the bill. Will however does at having met him in kindergarten, but he is knocked to the bottom of the best friend ranking for some reason. Dustin also points out Mike likes El but doesn't comment on Mike literally knocking her off him when he stood up because he was impatient about getting to Will, for someone so observant he missed something pretty big there. Dustin's smart and comes up with many good ideas but still generally defers to Mike about the life and death stuff until the Russian incident. Dustin and Mike tend to stick together but do clash often in regard to ideas or competition. Dustin becomes even more confident in himself as time goes on while Mike becomes withdrawn, hiding as normal. However, when Dustin is in over his head, he tries to contact Mike first and foremost, probably for a second opinion. They hold a pretty solid relationship, but for the only one who seems to have adjusted well after everything he never considered Mike might not have. Even the incident with Dart. Mike warned him he was dangerous, but Dustin ignored him. Even after Dart ate Dustin's cat and ran off, Mike didn't berate him for hiding though Lucas did. Dustin can become very rapped up in his perception of Mike that he fails to actually see Mike for who he is.

Max is a whole other argument. Max specifically sought out Mike, not backing down when he was mean to her. She did leave Lucas, Dustin, and El alone when they rebuffed her or lied to her, but Mike, she didn't stop until she made him laugh. She also didn't blame Mike for anything over the summer with spending time with El and even defending him until El came to her and she was mad at Lucas. She took her anger with Lucas and boys out on Mike, too. Granted, Mike shouldn't have lied to El, but Max just assumed Mike was being rude or controlling from that point on. She got mad when Mike said boys only but didn't ask why and assumed Mike was trying to stop El from spying because he wanted to control her powers, and sadly, everyone else just accepted what she said. Everyone conveniently forgets Mike was front row for Will's spying turned spy. Mike knew it was dangerous and how it would end. He was the only one not surprised when the meat monster found them. I would have been surprised if Mike didn't argue back and yelled he loved her. He had already watched her die once and then saw the aftermath of spying. Honestly, it was a wonder he didn't have a full-blown meltdown when the monster came after them or even gave an I told you so. I will say their relationship seemed to have improved after all that. Mike doesn't push Max to open up, and she does talk to him, not sarcastic like she did Dustin. She also could have chosen to hide during the assembly but chose to stay close to Mike both in the auditorium and in class. When listing people to go to when Krissy 6 stated she couldn't find Lucas or get ahold of Nancy, so she went to Dustin when Mike was mentioned it wasn't so much last ditch effort and more he wasn't an option from the start. She even calls the Byers house and is also aware Mike calls constantly, not just Dustin. Meaning she spent enough time with Mike to know how much he called. Mike didn't even bother asking her to play DnD because he knew she wouldn't want to. Honestly, the only person she didn't actually talk to directly aside from the adults was Will and Mike. What I find funny is when she hands Lucas the letters, Mike's name is the first she says, and aside from finding someone to relay the story to, he is the first person she lists. Even mentioning Mike's basement, she didn't have to specify it was Mike's she could have said Nancy's or even the Wheelers, but she intentionally said Mike's name. I believe they are closer than we currently know, and some of their friendship will be revealed. Especially with one of her happy memories to fight Vecna, being he teaching Mike to skateboard.

Will is a mess in and of itself. Mike spends most of his time looking after him and keeping him close that having him several states away took a serious toll on him. Also, the fact that Mike was supposed to go to California for Thanksgiving and they were supposed to come down for Christmas, but that seemed to get canceled intrigues me. Mike and Will have been friends for almost a decade, and Mike can always tell when something is off with Will unless he's distracted. Will is also the only person he willingly apologizes, too, and means it. The way Will called him Michael when he was made really shook Mike up, leading to the rain argument, and Mike chasing after him. There are several things Mime shouldn't have said to Will, but I'm pretty sure was nothing but projecting his own inner fight. The way Mike gets mad Will didn't tell him El was being bullied was unfair but given their history was something Will normally would have told him about. The accusation that Mike didn't call Will hit Mike pretty deep and threw him on the defense, turning the question back on Will. Will didn't think there was another explanation decide to take the initiative to call Mike himself, leaving all communication on Mike. Even their fighting only started after they met El and Mike started dating her. Watching Mike and Will being a united front in California and the way back to Hawkins was refreshing. After talking some of their issues out, Mike didn't get distracted by El he solely focused on Will. making them judging everyone funnier. Sadly their nonconcern or freak out about having to bury a body showed some serious red flags and unresolved trauma, I mean, who flirts while burying a body in the desert. Mike's active choice to stay with Will and not run off the talk things out with El was also very telling.

Now, I'll save my view on Nancy and Jonathan later, but they both annoy me in different ways, especially Nancy. Now I get it she's a badass, but she has consistently failed as an older sister to Mike.

Mike's perspective and feelings are strongly missing so far. His trauma, bullying, and dealing with all the death he witnessed have not been addressed once as if it's intentionally being ignored. Also, the fact that he was out of town and contact is the one time they failed, is hilarious to me simply because Nancy and Dustin pride themselves on being able to figure things out and make a plan but it fails. Mike's plans are always the ones that stick and reveal far more crucial information. He is very observant and hits back hard every time, which I believe caused the mindflayer to be far more cautious of Mike.

[mayabruhbruh]

do you think Mike’s behavior towards Will in S2 would somehow parallel his behavior towards El in S3?

Interesting ask! I like that comparison, though they are starkly different in nature. LETS THINK!!

So what you mean to point out is the glaring shift in attention from Will to El between seasons. I might've talked about this in an earlier post, but I love talking about it anyway, so let's dive in lmao.

So, I feel like it's pretty fair to say Mike is quite the easily-attatched, obsessive kind of person. And not in an insane way, at least not all the time, but you can see it in every season and in the way he sets his priorities. I mean, every season he finds something to latch onto and makes it his entire personality till something new comes along. And that's sort of what happened between seasons 2 and 3.

In season 2, Mike's sole purpose was to be by Will's side and to help figure out what was going on with him and the mind flayer. He was the one that was the most involved with his possession other than Joyce, and since he's just naturally such a leader and a genuinely objective-driven person, it was the only thing he focused on or worried about at all frankly all season.

Mike's determination to find Will in season one was his initial fixation, and I don't mean to use the term fixation to lessen the meaning of how much he invested himself in it. It's mainly a better way to express just how hyperfocused he gets in things like that. Mike nearly killed himself in season 1 for the slight chance that they might find Will again. WTF!? Anyway, season two was no different. With Will, his determination and general need to be of help is so prominent and almost default to him. It's really revealing of his priorities, the mere fact that he didn't go anywhere else for a solid few days while he watched over Will and wracked his brain for anything that could help fix the situation.

And that all changed, of course, with the reintroduction of El at the end of the second season. Of course, Mike still helped figure out how to stop the Mind Flayer without killing Will, but it was at that point that we knew once this was all over, his attention would shift to El in a similar manner.

Now, there's a bit of a difference in the behavior from season 2 to season 3 in terms of how he expresses that "obsession" or as we should probably just call it, "fixation." In season 2, it was driven with the intention of being helpful to Will in any and all ways that he could, whether that be comfort (the scene on his bed where they talk about the Mind Flayer), rationality (helping Joyce, Bob, Hopper etc. figure out the connections and offer useful understanding), or just company for a slowly deteriorating Will Byers, which can be backed up by the way he was solely with Will for a far majority of the season.

In season 3, the fixation he has for El is a little less within the area of his expertise, and lot more forced. And that's not at all to say that he just up and goes to El's cabin at the same time every day against his will lmfao. I really just mean that the organicness with which he latched onto Will's situation couldn't exactly be replicated here. Mike doesn't really get fixated on something without there being an end result or something useful to come out of it. So... that is to say he most definitely still had a goal in mind with his relationship with El. It's really just part of his formula and the recurring patterns presented in each season with every action he takes. Despite being an idiot, he's very methodical in what he does. And that's no different with El.

Mike after getting a girlfriend and thus eradicating the loser allegations:

Basically, what I'm saying is a regurgitation of what plenty of others have said on this app, and it's that he wants very badly, whether he knows it or not, to do one of three things:

for himself to come off as normal and typical teenage boy-ish as possible

for himself to come off as non-homosexual as possible

to prove to everyone that he is not "weird", as so many others have suspected (his bullies, his parents, literally everyone)

But, to be fair, those are all basically the same things. At least in Mike's book. And in his mind, a lot of his issues with not fitting in and the internal fear of being seen have a solution within his relationship with El. With her, he finds an excuse to back out of all of the things that remind him of just how "weird" he is. Turning down Dungeons and Dragons, the Cerebro setup, and indulging in all that teenager-y romance drama and moodiness was so out of character for him, and I feel like that really means something in the grand scheme. There have been many analyses on the stark capitalistic, bright and flashy artificiality of season 3, and Mike was a MAJOR part of that, especially in his drastic change in persona in just that season. (Note this analysis of his clothes in s3 I chimed in on as well, because it fits well with this lmao). Now, so many things that he once loved to do before can now be turned down with the excuse that he has someone. Someone (a girlfriend) that symbolizes (to society and by default, to him) manhood and true maturity and whatnot. She, to him, can be the light at the end of the bleak tunnel called life in Hawkins, Indiana, where he can't be who he wants, but he can settle for a questionable relationship with a friend that excuses all of that weirdness (*cough* queerness *coughcough*) in him that he can't seem to shake without her.

It's smart of him, really. I mean, he likes her! They've gone through a lot together, and having a good friend that he can easily deem as someone he like likes despite not really knowing what he wants is just him taking easy street. Sadly, he neglected to realize that pretending to be in love with someone might cause said someone to fall in love too. Someone innocent, new to the world, and susceptible to that kind of feeling. BAD IDEA MICHEAL.

He saw a lot of the repercussions of that in season 4, where El's feelings came a lot more into play and the whole "being normal" and "getting girlfriends" deal had begun to wear off in his mind. His relationship with DnD came back with that too, and I think it has a lot to do with his realization that he fucked up. Big time. Season 4 is really a whole other story. Basically him trying to salvage their relationship despite realizing his attraction toward her was all a lie. He didn't really like like her, he just liked the idea of being relieved of his societal expectations by being with her. And once he met Eddie and learned that conformity is what's killing the kids, it finally dawned on him that he really dated El solely to conform. And that's fucked up. And he realizes this. But isn't sure how to fix it.

Oh well, that's an issue for season 5 to resolve.

My purpose for writing this is not to confirm Byler or to shoot down M!ileven. All I hope to do is offer script-centered reasoning and analysis for the events depicted in the show, so that it can help connect the dots on what may happen next. Truthfully, whether Mike ends up gay, straight, with Will, with El, or WHATEVER, I truly believe that the narrative in season 4 intends for us to pick up on the fact that Mike has come to the realization that he isn't in love with El, he never was really, and that he is dealing with the shockwaves that his too-young compulsory love decision has wrought for them. It is kind of his fault, because despite being young and stupid when he initiated it between them, she was even younger and stupider and happened to follow his lead. (I love El, I am NOT calling her stupid lmfao I just mean he sort of used her lack of knowledge and experience in society to his advantage unknowingly and led them down the path to where they are now.)

Anyway, that's what I think about Mike's behavior between seasons. Sorry, this was unnecessarily long, but I hope it answered your question LMFAO.

Please shoot me a message or another ask if there's any more questions or thing you'd like me to expand more on! Y'all know I can yap for hours over this.

[pinkeoni]

El's Superhero/Monster Dichotomy

El's monster conflict starts in season one, when she blames herself for the gate opening and for Will's disappearance.

This conflict seems to be "resolved" when she kills the actual monster, the demogorgon, making herself a hero and not a monster. This is even suggested earlier by Mike, who innocently tells El that she isn't the monster because she saved him.

Although this "resolve" is actually quite tragic. She proves herself to be a hero which does offer a conclusion to this conflict within this season, but she sacrifices everything for this.

This conflict comes back in full for El in season four. She no longer has her powers, and she's in a new environment where she's alienated and bullied. On top of everything, her boyfriend can't even say "I love you" to her. It's not a stretch to say that she feels monstrous.

This is only reaffirmed for El after her incident with Angela. Now, obviously this wasn't a good thing for her to do, but El also completely disregards all of the pain that Angela made her feel, perceiving herself as this violent monster who attacks innocent girls unprovoked. We know this is what she's thinking when she says as much to the cops.

I don’t think El wanted to kill Angela, which is why she says “I don’t know,” but she’s unsure because she’s unable to trust her own judgement. At this point she sees herself as a killing machine, so she must have wanted to kill Angela, even if that goes against her true reasoning.

Now, of course we the audience know that El isn't the monster, and everyone close to her knows this as well. But what matters isn't how others perceive her, it matters how El perceives herself.

Her argument with Mike doesn't absolve any of her feelings either, which is of no fault to either Mike nor El. El was too in her head and it wasn't something anyone could talk her out of, and she also wasn't aware of Mike's own internal conflict which was informing all of his responses. Mike can't say "I love you" to El because of his own issues, but to El, he can't say "I love you" because she is an unlovable monster.

Mike really means well when he says "You're a superhero," but it makes things much worse in El's mind. Instead, it creates an unreasonable expectation—

El believes that if she can't save the world, then she must be a monster. She doesn't allow herself to be neither— a human being.

NINA doesn't do much to alleviate El's dichotomous thinking, if anything it only encourages it. She only shifts the monster label on to someone else, that being Papa, and since she wasn't responsible for the massacre like she, and even the audience was led to initially believe, she's able to cleanly reclaim her superhero status. She was the one who defeated the perpetrator, in a moment that visually echoes the end of season one. She's the hero again!

She marches into her battle with Henry with a new sense of high confidence. And she loses.

This isn't El's fault, but she blames herself for Max's condition anyway. Will points out that Max wouldn't even be alive if not for El, but it doesn't matter for her.

To El, getting her powers back doesn't make her a superhero. And if she's not a superhero, well, then she must be the one who destroyed the world.

The resolve of El's conflict wasn't to get her powers back, she just believed that it would fix her problems. But the core conflict is still there— her black and white way of thinking.

So what does this mean moving forward?

Ironically, I think that El can actually learn something from Henry:

I don't think that El's arc in the coming season is going to be about becoming the hero again, but rather unlearning this train of thought. The world isn't made of monsters and superheroes, the world is made up of human beings who all make choices, her being one of them. She isn't responsible for the decisions of others, and it isn't her responsibility to take care of the mess that others create. She's a brave girl who decided to use her powers to try and save her friends, and her failure doesn't make her guilty for the fallout.

I wouldn't be surprised if El pushes herself to be the superhero who saves the world once again, although, the show has already revealed to us what happens when she does— it destroys her.

[it-one-line-at-a-time]

hi you gave the go ahead on sending you reddie asks so uhhhhh hi im here now

the losers club is one giant love heptogon. like poly qpr with romantic subsets

because everyone loved bev romantically and vice versa (cough cough sewer sex scene cough)

and richie loved eddie but he also had a crush on mike and definitely thought ben was hot (voiced this himself) and he has self worth issues and hides his insecurities with jokes (insecure hes bi so makes im-so-straight jokes, insecure hes ugly so makes im-so-hot-and-deffinatly-pull jokes) and even if hes stupid people love him because they KNOW why hes like that so thet play into it to make him feel better BECAUSE THEY LOVE HIMMMMM

and ben has always been just this little socially awkward idiot filled with love and definitely loved everyone in the losers club and hes emotional and i personally think hes arospec and feels unreasonable amounts of intense platonic love, to the point he mixes it up with romantic love (like me!!)

and mike definitely thinks hes not enough if he doesn't help people. he thinks if he doesn't help everyone around him hes useless and unloveable but at the same time only cares about the opinion of people hes deemed important (people that can hurt him and his friends) so of COURSE he helps his friends and hes the guy who keeps them safe (assuring they have weapons, making sure everyone is present and accounted for, ect) and everyone else loves him because hes there when they need protection and thats enough<33333333

and everyone loves bill to. how could you not hes just a stuttering dumbass little baby that need protected. plus he loves his friends for being there when he needed it (when georgie died, ect)

and eddie worrys about all his friends safety because they might be dumb and disease ridden assholes but there HIS dumb disease ridden assholes. and everyone loves eddie because hes like a weird overbearing jerk and he CARES. he CARES about there safety and no one else does.

and stan. he has some form of religous guilt. so when he found people that thought of him as stan and not stan the jewish kid he was over the moon. and everyone loves stan because even though he has his issues theyd NEVER leave him

sorry im just really fucking mentally ill and think my gay children need hugs and that my old man yaoi should have been allowed to be happy (reddie fix it fics save me. reddie fix it fics. save me reddie fix it fics)

Yikes, this got longer than I'd expected. Buckle in.

I read the sewer scene for the first time at school surrounded by my friends, and I think it was the one time I've read something that genuinely horrified me so much that I couldn't bring myself to be over-the-top scared of it to be funny. I have a younger brother who's turning eleven soon and the thought of it makes me wanna take a bath, if you know what I mean!!! Hm.

Also you are SO right about the Losers all loving each other. Yeah, there's the romantic pairings - Richie + Eddie, Bev + Bill (at least as kids) - but honestly they all love each other sooooo much it's kinda crazy. I'm kind of obsessed with how they conveyed how much they care for Richie in particular to the films - when he's crying after Eddie's death and they all hug him and he's like, 'Hm? They know I'm gay, and they still love me?', and he looks down at them genuinely confused for a moment - because it's so subtle but my God it's done so sweetly.

Speaking of sweet, HELL yeah Ben loved them all! My boy literally has love rolling off him like Sisyphus' boulder off the mountain. Whether it's platonic or romantic is personal opinion, but literally nobody can dispute that after Bill and Eddie (and Richie, in the film) took him into the Losers Club, he fucking adored them, man. Of course he loves Bev, that's kind of the most given thing to ever be given, but to be honest I think both he and Mike are the most symbolic of the Losers' love, because they were outsiders who found their family within the group.

Talking of Mike, he is the personification of 'the glue that holds the group together'. Literally, yes, when he calls them back to reunite after twenty-seven years, but you're right that it's in more subtle ways, too; the way he has the bolt-gun and ammunition, the way he is willing to sacrifice himself in the movie because he knows he messed up big time. And that last bit, too, is one of the biggest pieces of evidence in my opinion about your theory, dear asker who is definitely not a raccoon in disguise, that he feels inadequate if he doesn't actively protect the group. But they love him for it! <3

Ahhh, Billiam my boy. The one that every one of the Losers was genuinely a little bit in love with. The one who would not only readily die for any one of them, but who would die for a random kid with a skateboard who's only ever been rude to him! Of course in the book it is explored how much Georgie's death really affected him, of course it was, but that scene in Chapter 1 where he finds Georgie's raincoat and the Losers all just hug him without saying anything while he sobs is so fuckin' special, man. And that's the Losers Club, them all together, unconditional love and respect and love and love.

Eddie hiding how much he adores his friends under a mask of worry and ill-tempered arguments is genuinely such a lovely character trait. It doesn't take a genius to see that "You guys know that alleys are known for dirty needles that have AIDS, right? You guys do know that?" is a masked-up version of "Guys please don't go into that alley, I don't want you cutting yourself and getting this awful and scary disease going around". It's literally just him saying, in his own little way, I fucking love you guys, don't get hurt, and taking it upon himself to keep them all safe forever. Bill's "He'd be looking out for us... the way he always was." is in NO way lost on me, man.

One thing the book did that I thought was so so good and so so interesting was looking at religious guilt, through Patty, but it's not difficult to imagine that it extends to Stan, too. I swear there are some points - usually from characters like Henry Bowers' points of view - where Stan is kind of just, 'the Jewish one' (like how Richie is the loudmouth, and Ben is the fat one), so I reckon you're definitely right that when the Losers got to know him as Stanley Uris, rather than 'the Jewish kid', it was probably like a huge weight off his shoulders. And that's one of the reasons that he loves his disjointed little group, because they were the first to accept him and his religion as one.

Anyway, yes, the Losers love each other and they would die for each other and I would die for them please and thank you.

(Also, I agree that Reddie fix-it fics were put onto earth by God Themself.)

[rainydayathogwarts]

ʀᴏʟʟ ᴛʜᴇ ᴅɪᴄᴇ - ꜱᴛᴇᴠᴇ ʜᴀʀʀɪɴɢᴛᴏɴ

Summary: Steve wants you, but you've got a play thing named Nancy Wheeler who does too. bi!reader Warnings: Love triangle situation but it's not. Not smut but making out? Nancy's a bit of a mean girl towards Steve. wc: 2.1k

You giggle, moving your head to the side to allow Nancy more space to leave kisses on your neck, one hand trailing on your waist as the other helped hold herself up on top of you while you breathed heavily under her "Well go on, what happened next?" She whispers into the crook of your next, her hot breath tickling you. "Nothing happened, I just told him that I already had someone to... fulfil my needs?"

Nancy separates from you, straightening up on top of you to take her shirt off. "Well I'll bet that's the first time someone's declined an offer to be filled up in the back of Billy's car." She leans down, her lips hovering over yours teasingly, only to be interrupted by urgent knocks on her bedroom door.

Mike - of course.

"Nancy! Steve's here!" You perked up at the sound of Steve's name, a hand immediately going up to fix your hair. Steve. What was he doing here? At Nancy's? You straightened up as Nancy got up, pulling her shirt over her head, flashing her an awkward smile when you made eye contact as she moves to unlock the door. "You okay?" She asks, and you nod, unable to tell her about your undying crush on King Steve, because she might have one of her own.

It's only when Steve himself bursts into the room, already rambling, that you put the smile back on your face. Upon seeing you, he stops talking, his mouth gaping slightly as he awkwardly raises a hand to greet you. "Oh, hey y/n. I- I didn't notice your car outside?" You nod, pursing your lips, suspicious as to why he'd so abruptly stopped talking. Were they hiding something?

Nevertheless, you shake your head. "No, Nancy picked me up." Steve nods slowly. Nancy picked you up? He turns to look at her and she licks her lips, a smirk forming on her face, raising her eyebrows slightly as if questioning him. His heart beats faster and all of a sudden, he can hear it in his ears, pounding the focus out of him. Does Nancy know he likes you? Steve's face flushes. Shit. Of course she does.

You look away. They were clearly flirting. If Nancy was into him, she could have just said... But then, you could have too. "Um, I'm going to go!" You state. "I'll walk, it's not far Nance." You continue, noticing her confusion, and sling your bag over your shoulder with your head down as you walk out her door.

"You like her."

"What!?"

"Y/N. I saw that look you gave her. You like her"

"Nance no I don't even-shut up!"

Nancy smirks, leaning back on her dresser. "I'm just saying. It's a shame. I heard she's sleeping with someone anyway." Steve's hot red blush dies out, all colour in his face draining. "She is?" But all Nancy gives him is a nod.

"I think she's really into this guy too. Or girl. She wouldn't tell me how big he is so I doubt it's a dude. I'm guessing she's pretty into them since people don't know. Probably doesn't want to ruin whatever they have with people finding out and stuff."

Nancy doesn't bother hiding her smile when she sees the disappointment and doubt on Steve's face, the wheels turning as he tried to piece together why you would be with a girl. Or was the look on his sadness? But she couldn't care less, because at that moment, whatever side of the dice Steve landed on, she still had the advantage in the game. "Well, what do you want? You are here for a reason aren't you?"

"Um yeah, no. Wait, let me remember-Wait she likes girls?"

Downstairs, you pulled your arms through the holes in your jacket, sighing as you started to make your way home. You wouldn't think about it for now. No you wouldn't. You trusted Nancy and she trusted you, that's what made your little deal work. You both knew that if something started up with someone else, whatever this was would end. And for now, your romantic life wasn't necessarily blooming, no matter how big your stupid crush on Steve was.

You'd still be able to see him given that you worked in Starcourt mall in a small boutique across from Scoops Ahoy, so you'd know if any of the feelings you held for him were reciprocated. And as much as you hated to admit it, that's what you were thinking of as Nancy drove you to the busy mall the next morning, her hand on your thigh.

"Hey there's still time until your shift starts... Meet me in the backseat?" You giggled, climbing over the armrest as Nancy opened her door, taking the easy way to the back, promptly landing herself on top of you yet again. She grinned, both hands cupping your jaw as her body pressed roughly against yours, her lips moving softly against yours.

Steve groaned, hand fiddling with his car keys to lock his car, the other tightly clutching his warm coffee. He shoved his keys in his pocked, the now unoccupied hand coming up to brush through his famously known hair. It was too early for this, anyone in their right mind new that. No one went to an ice cream shop at 9 in the morning unless they're recovering from a rough night. He makes his way up to the entrance of the mall and that's when he sees it.

You. Her.

You and her. Together.

More specifically, you and her making out in the back of her car. He really thought that was Billy's thing more than hers. He feels the scorching hot coffee running down his hand and he loosens his grip on the cardboard cup to stop the overflow.

He could see your smile, the slight movement of your hands on Nancy's hips, pushing her down onto you. He could see the very confident way Nancy pulled you deeper into the kiss, briefly pulling away to kiss your neck. He could see the way you moved your neck, flicking your hand over your shoulder to allow her more space. He could see the way you were so clearly enjoying every little moment with the woman who had told him yesterday that you were seeing someone. That she thinks you had caught feelings for. And watching you, he thinks so too.

"What the fuck?" Steve drops his coffee in shock, spinning around to spot Robin behind him, her jaw slack, eyes glued to the scene in front of them. "Y/N likes girls?" She questions Steve who knows little more than she does about the situation. "If I knew that I would have gone for her a long time ago."

In the shop, with their stupid hats, Steve and Robin both stand out front, serving the customers, but mostly catching Robin up on what had happened the past two days. "What a lying, manipulative, cheating scumb-" "Robin! Look." They put on fake smiles as the famous Mike Wheeler comes strolling in with his little clan. "Oi, hey Wheeler!" Robin starts, hesitantly looking at Steve. "Is your sister seeing anyone? Because I heard from a girl that she might be with this heartthrob person."

Mike looks up from the display of flavours, "No."

"BUT-" Cuts in Dustin, as enthusiastic as always "We have this theory that she and her really hot friend Y/N are a little too close, if you know what I mean."

"Which is weird," continues Will, "because we could have sworn that she was with Billy Hargrove like a week ago. Or at least, that's what we heard."

"But it's completely plausible that they're not together because we know Y/N loves making her relationships public. Remember her and Archie?" Lucas makes a face of disgust as he takes them back to the year before and Steve can briefly relate to the disgust, remembering Y/N and her possessive ex-boyfriend Archie who made it a point for them to let everyone know they were together.

"Oh, well thanks for the gossip guys." Steve scoffs, pointing a finger at them to Robin and chuckling, counting the cash they gave him as Robin handled their orders. "You think she'd go out with me?" Will perks up again, shoulders rounding as the boys start laughing, an argument over who would win you over starting up between them.

Steve shrugs, looking at Robin, whose eyes immediately go wide and she straightens up, loudly 'whispering' "Steve! She's here! She's here! Do you think Nancy lied to her do you think- Hey Y/N!" Steve's head turns to you so quickly his neck might have snapped in the process, but he grins at you, who surprisingly returns the favour.

Steve stutters while taking your order and giving you your change as he tries to make small talk, which very much fails him. You giggle, thanking him and walking to a table near the entrance, so he takes a deep breath and follows you to your seat.

You don't know if you should bring anything up to him, or attempt in striking up a conversation with him before leaving. Maybe you could ask what he needed from Nance? No, it was none of your business. You could ask if he's seeing anyone, but that would be too obvious.

"Hey, do you mind if I join you?" You look up from your seat, smiling when you see Steve, taking his sailor hat off and running a hand through his well-tamed hair. You shake your head, gesturing to the empty seat in front of you, and he gladly sits down.

"Um how, I heard you're- uh." You let Steve sit there, opening and closing his mouth like a fish, an eyebrow raised. "Sorry, I don't want to come on too strongly." He smiles sheepishly.

"Out with it, what do you want?" You reply jokingly, but what he says next makes your heart drop.

"I heard you're with Nancy."

"Steve... Nancy's a girl." But he only nods to what you have to say.

"Okay, I saw you guys in the parking lot this morning. And when I was at her's yesterday she said you were seeing someone that you were really into and-"

"Steve what?" You scoot your chair closer to his, leaning in so you could speak in a whisper and nothing louder. "Look, Nancy and I are just sleeping with each other, nothing else. I don't know why she would tell you that. Please don't tell anyone! I'm not ready for people to know I'm into girls because then guys will back off and I don't want them to because I like guys and they're hot and-"

"You do?" Your nervous ranting stops at that and you look at Steve, looking at him with disgust "What? Are you saying I can't like both girls and guys?"

Steve's face goes white and he starts frantically shaking his head, his mouth moving without any words coming out. "NO! No shit. I didn't mean for it to come out that way, I just mean- Will you go out with me!?" Robin's head all the way from the counter snaps in your direction as his voice squeaks as does everyone else's in the ice cream shop.

"I mean. You like guys, I'm a guy. And I like you, and for a moment I'd like to think that you might like me too since Nancy was apparently telling me a load of bullshit." You nod apprehensively, trying to take in the information he just gave you without going bright red, even though you could feel your face heating up.

You liked him. He liked you.

"I'd like to go out with you. Because, even though 12 hours ago I thought you and Nancy were flirting in front of me, which I hated her for, I have to admit that I like you too. Also, I need to stop coming for ice cream at 12 o'clock just so that I can have an excuse to see you."

You both chuckle and a moment of awkward silence settles down as you look down, starting to pick at your nails. "Um so do I pick you up tomorrow night or should I give you a day or two to tell Nancy?" He asks and you look up again, only for the colour to immediately leave your face when you make eye contact with the figure that's standing up behind your date. No wonder Robin hadn't made a noise in a while.

"Tell Nancy what?"

[noihavenosanitythanksforasking]

broski, you keep saying mike is unable to say i love you to his gf, but at the end he finally said it (9 times) so whats your point literally?

you are holding onto old crap, and beating a dead horse. He said he loves her multiple times, boys are generally hesitant in expressing their emotions (patriarchy asks them to be tough ,not open up and everything), but he overcame that by the end of the season

do you think mileven is gonna break up after how explicitly he told el he loves her???? el also loves mike very much, its just a fight she's upset about, but people can FORGIVE and move on from past misunderstandings you know? el is veryymuch in love with mike since season 1, she can forgive mike for his one mistake (he basically rectified it too at the end of the day)

y'all keep saying mike gets upset when will doesn't talk to him but at the end of season 4 mike is upset that el is not talking to him much because she's grieving

ahhhh this is so exciting!!! i feel like ive made it or smth!

sorry for my late response i was in my physics class 😔

now, we dont KNOW for SURE what mike truly feels. you dont know. i dont know. no one will ever know until s5 comes out. however i have my speculations and so do you. and thats okay!! we dont have to agree :3 your allowed to believe whatever you want in regards to mike and els relationship. it doesnt affect me at all.

however, sense you app care about what i have to say so much i will yapp somemore about what i think. you dont have to agree with me. in fact ik you wont. and thats okay, clearly you are insecure enough about your own opinion that you feel the need to go to the other side and argue with someone in their anons. bc if your opinions were solid and unshakable youd have your url showing. but i get it i really do :)

anywayssss. charecters can lie.

just like people can lie.

i was in a romantic relationship with someone for about a year. and throughout that time, i told them i loved them multiple times. did i? no. did i want to? yes. i wanted to be in love with them. they were very very important to me and when they asked me out, i thought to myself 'well i do really like this person. why not?'

i was not in love with this person. i did not have romantic feelings for them. but i convinced myself i did. in the end, one day we were sitting next to each other and it just hit me. i didnt want to be here anymore. i had met someone else and was developing a crush on them at the time. so i broke up with them.

all this to say, mike can lie. hes not a high fantasy elf. something i feel is a big disconnect between bylers and milevens is that milevens tend to read most things at face value. just bc you say you love someone doesnt mean you do.

as for the patriarchy comment, mikes story line has never had to do with being tough, or not being man enough. he repeatedly says that he doesnt want to be popular, he doesnt care about fitting in. ofc this can still be a factor but i doubt its a huge point of his character arc. if it was they would have made a point of adressing him struggling with it before this.

on your point about moving on from fights, your so right about that. i dont in the slightest think that elmike are going to be on BAD terms in endgame but i dont think they'll be on romantic terms. even if byler isnt canon, and mike is straight. i still believe that.

as for his mistake being rectified. girl what u yappin ab. no it wasnt. if it was why was el not talking to mike in the van on the way back to hawkins

mike says in the last episode that they werent really talking. a little bit but not much. you could say that el was greiving max. but el DIDNT KNOW max was in a coma. when they get back to hawkins, dustin has a line where he explicitly says

"oh you guys dont know" in refrence to max.

is el traumatized? definitely!!! but she doesnt know max is in a coma. and even if she did, why wouldnt el seek comfort in her bf if they had fixed everything???

as for your last point, yeah mike is upset about el not talking to him. duh. however lets compare.

when mike is mad at will for not paying attention to him at rink o mania he actively brings it up. he actively pursues will and expresses his frustration over will being dismissive. he is visably upset. on the other hand, in the last ep of s4, mike doesnt even bring up el until will does. he seems mildly annoyed and confused about the situation and makes no moves to pursue her or seek out resolution. he makes no moves to comfort her about max ever. he doesnt walk with her, he doesnt hug her. nothing. the only affection between then is when EL puts her head on mikes sholder. mike makes no moves to comfort her more but he doesnt push her away. this is also right after mike activly began walking sideways to be able to stand next to will when there was an open space for him to stand right next to el im front of him. odd.

also you do realize that someone can be upset at the prospect of two people that are important to them being upset at them

its not will or el

its never been will or el

this has always been about mike and how he handles conflict and shit.

anywayssss my hands r going to freeze off bc its like 19 F outside and i wrote this walking across campus

hope this helps 💙💛

[gayofthefae]

"El should have had a response to the speech so we know how she feels about it!" No. El should have had a response to the speech so Mike knows she loves him. Really loves him. We heard what he said in that van. We heard what he said to her. When she says it, he doesn't fully believe it. In a Milkvan endgame world, Mike has told us that he believes he loves El more than El loves him and that is going to get him hurt.

That isn't just the resolution to El's feelings in 4x03. It's a recreation of them. El told Mike she didn't feel like enough, now he's telling her she is. But in it, he's telling her he doesn't feel like enough. If they really wanted this romance to resolve everyone's issues, she would have told him he is. At some point, find a time. Or make the speech be in a point it can be a dialogue in the first place. Yes, we're curious what she thinks, but even if she's simply happy and nothing else, he still needs it. He deserves it.

He deserves the van speech. Straight from her mouth. And I guess that's what it is. The only reason it works that he doesn't get it from her is that while before, he was saying he didn't feel like enough. Now, he's saying "I want you to know I didn't tell you because I didn't feel like enough. But Will told me that wasn't true so now I know better and can tell you this." Yeah, super romantic. Bring up your other love interest in your speech, that's not threatening to your girlfriend at all. He doesn't actually do that, obviously, but that is the meaning behind the words and why it (sort of) resolves for us.

Mike feels feels like enough now. But El had nothing to do with it. My point stands. Poor El she's so sad about Mike and he needs to fix it. But we were so focused on that, we forgot: Mike is sad about El too. And she needs to fix it. He did his part, she didn't do hers. In her defense, it was solved before she got there, which that being possible is another rant I kinda just gave and will also be cutting the rest of off for another time.

They said "El deserves to feel loved by Mike" and had Mike love her. Then they said "Mike deserves to feel loved" and left it there. It does not matter that it was fulfilled by El indirectly. Will fixed it. Whatever you say, if you lie to your friend to comfort them, so long as it works, you still fixed it. If my friend says he's scared his girlfriend doesn't love him enough and I say "yes she does she told me firsthand" I'll send him off smiling and someone saying "wow it's so nice of his girlfriend to cheer him up" is fuckin rude tbh.

Mike deserved love too. El's could only be fulfilled by Mike or herself. They pretended the second one wasn't true so for the purposes of this post, we will too, and in that case, Mike fulfilled it for her. But more importantly, no one else did. No outside person but Mike at that tie could have fulfilled that for her. Or maybe they could, but they made sure to not let us ever know for sure. They told us for sure with Mike. All these romantic moments with El are actually just further inherent proof of his relationship with Will. What Will did worked. That is a bad. sign. He succeeded in getting Mike to tell El he loves her, yes, but break it down and you get: Mike needed to feel like enough to tell El. El did not succeed in that, Will did. AND more importantly, that was enough.

That being enough tells us it did not have to be El. El deserves to be loved by Mike. Mike deserves to be loved. That's what they said. El deserves better than Mike but Mike deserves better than El too. That's why they literally already did, and actually had to for the plot to work, give him better.

Yeah. Mike and El and receiving the solutions they need to the sadness over each other from other people before each other gets to it and being completely fulfilled and able to move on without the other just fine now.

[sigmxnd]

okay poll is saying yes so im going for it (this is gonna get very rambly and might not all connect or be coherent but oh well)

i've realized i love taking my favorite characters and putting a bunch of the same hcs to them cause i like making my favorites more like me

i know why this happens, its cause im silly and i look at these characters and my brain just goes "i like that" and then i just ARYARAYAEAGA4AYA and get rabies, but also like a lot of the time i look at these characters that more often than not i see myself in them

these stupid dumb dirt eating rebellious evil losers just exist and i see stuff happen to them for the plot and i just go "i see you. i know you. you're just like me fr" but they aren't real so they don't know i understand them but yknow

but at the same time its always an internal battle cause i percieve other people's opinions and hcs all the time, but at the same time i'm so utterly terrified of sharing most of my stuff and my own hcs that i'm not confident in for fear of being percieved and having someone else think I'M weird. and yeah i am weird but i don't wanna be seen as like. bad weird

i just recently shared that i hc mike and zeke as being autistic, cause as a peer reviewed autistic i find it extremely comforting and it makes me super happy to think of them like that, but like they're not the only ones i think of that way. it's pretty much all of them that i think of that way, which makes sense, but idk it makes me feel a lil weird

ik i can do whatever i want (within reason) but it feels almost strange to do all this when i currently don't even have access to the rest of the td seasons AND there's not a lot of hc differences between them, and it feels cringe or something idk

but anyway i love making jokes about how i am absolutely INFATUATED😍✨️‼️ with both duncan and scott and i hate courtney with such a burning seething passion. she was so mean to both of them, i can fix them (or also make them worse. i could do that for funzies)

tl;dr: I'M CRAZY I'M OFF THE WALLS I'M NUTS I'M BONKERS I'M SILLY I'M GOOFY I'M WACKY I'M SO UTTERLY GOOBERISH (i'm scared to talk about all of my hcs for my favorites out of fear of people looking at me with their EYES, and probably something else. sorry guys my own post doesn't even make sense to me)

sigmund silly sessions will happen again, this was fun to just vomit my thoughts

[fayedartmouth]

Can you please post a snippet of your fix it? It’s totally valid if you aren’t up for it

Okay, so it was really hard for me to know where to start, so I'm going with something new the start that provides the first bit of groundwork for what makes the difference in this fic. I said Luke has a big role in it, and I wasn't lying. This is set at the town council scene and is probably the second scene in the fic as of now.

(And I am very aware of the need to be careful with Luke, who is by no means a hero, but he stepped up for JJ once. And much of this is predicated on the idea that he could do it again. That doesn't whitewash anything, but it does give us some interesting plot points and character developments to work with.)

Luke Maybank had seen this story.

Right?

He’d seen it all his life.  Lived it.

When things got hard, the decisions got desperate and the risks got big.  When they came at you swinging, you kicked back harder.  If it was going down, then it was going down hard.  You didn’t just end shit.  You burned the whole thing to the ground.

Because there was always a bigger bet.

You always had something to lose.

You were going to end up with nothing anyway, so who the hell cared if it was your own damn fault?  

Luke knew this story, sure enough.

He’d just never seen it played out with his son.

Was that what JJ was to him?  Was the boy still his?  Did he have any right to him?

It was hard not to feel it.

And it was damn near impossible not to see the resemblance.

A Maybank digging his own grave, just waiting for someone else to bury him.

That was what it was, then.  When JJ broke that window.  When JJ fought that cop.  When JJ slipped out of that cop car and ran away.

If he’d ever doubted that JJ was his son, there it was.

He watched him run, disappearing into the crowd.  His bridges burned.  His fortune squandered.  His chances spent.

Luke had taught him many things.  Fishing and surfing.  Sailing and fixing shit.

Drinking hard and getting too much.

But he never taught that boy to succeed.

Worse, he thought as the cops rallied after him.  He’d never taught that boy another way.  If the cops didn’t kill him, they’d throw him in jail.  It was only a matter of time before that girl of his left him.  When JJ turned to alcohol, the others would leave him too.  There’d be no one left to tell him the pills weren’t no fix.

All the lessons JJ learned, the only one he seemed to remember was that he was a worthless piece of shit.

He did this, he realized numbly.

This was his fault.

He hadn’t meant for it to be like this, for what it was worth.  Barracuda Mike wasn’t all sides legal, but Luke did hard work.  He was sober, and when they’d offered him the deal — the land for immunity — he’d taken it.  He hadn’t imagined the consequences.

But he’d been thinking about himself, right?

He hadn’t been thinking about JJ.  He hadn’t been thinking about the baby he’d taken in, the one he’d kept despite the fact that he knew he wasn’t his. He hadn’t been thinking about the kid he’d abandoned and left on his own.  He hadn’t been thinking about the little boy who had loved him, even when he didn’t deserve it.

And he didn’t deserve it.

Luke didn’t deserve anything good – not now, not ever.

He’d broken that boy’s body.  He’d broken that boy’s heart.  He’d broken that boy’s spirit.

And shit.

He hadn’t even been his in the first place.

Luke didn’t know how to fix it.

But standing there, he thought he might know one person who did.

[thestrangestthing89]

I think El will be upset with Mike and Will when she first finds out. This does not mean that she will be homophobic or that she is in love with Mike and got her heart broken. She isn't either of those things.

But I think it will be hard for her to understand why they were both repressing their feelings because she doesn't have enough real world experience to understand the context. She knows what bullies are but when Mike brought up his bullying to her in Lenora she didn't understand and said it was different. She shuts him down and you can see that this hurt his feelings. She doesn't register this and she has never taken his feelings into account before. She thinks she is the only one who is different and has a hard time understanding other people's points of view.

Which isn't her fault. She has limited social experience. But I think it will lead her to not understand at first. Not only that, but she doesn't have a strong grasp of what healthy relationships look like or what different relationship dynamics are. She models her idea of romance off of soap operas because she hasn't seen this in real life and it strongly influences the way she interacts with Mike. Which is why she is shown to repeatedly not consider his feelings.

I don't think Mike is going to come out to her but I think she will find out sooner than some of the others. Because Will is her brother and I think she did start to put this together on her own in S4. So I think she sees this happening but she doesn't have enough context or social awareness to fully get why they behaved this way.

Her and Mike don't trust each other or know how to talk to each other so I think it's possible they will have a fight and she will be upset with him for lying. Mike already feels guilty about this but I do think he is done with this relationship and has been for a while. So I don't think this will be a whole conversation with them.

I think she will be mad at both of them for lying to her and also feel bad for getting in the middle of their relationship when this whole thing didn't have to happen at all.

Mike wasn't intentionally trying to hurt her and was scared which is why he lied. They were both trying to be normal and were both using each other. But that's the kind of thing that becomes clear with time and reflection and when she is in the middle of it it's probably hard to see that.

Will wasn't intentionally lying when he didn't mention his feelings and also wasn't trying to hurt her. But she unintentionally hurt him too with the way she made it sound like her relationship with Mike was going great. I think there is a lot of guilt here.

I think El will pull away from both of them for a bit. Hopper, Joyce, and Jonathan in particular could be helpful in getting her to understand this better. I can see her fixing things with Will before fixing things with Mike. He's her brother and she always wanted a family before anything else so this relationship is more important for her. Though I don't think they will ever be super close but I think they could eventually understand each other on this.

I don't think Mike and El will ever be that close. I honestly can't even picture them having a healthy conversation about this at any point. But I do think that seeing Mike and Will together in a happy, healthy relationship will be good for her. She doesn't have a lot of examples of this. Once she gains more experience with the world around her I think she will come to understand why they were repressing their feelings. But it isn't going to happen right away.

[crumbleclub]

I think the part of Mike that would have died in the Fox and Kit AU wouldn't have been, like, a one dimensional state, but he would have pretty big chunks of certain aspects of who he was. Kit Mike would have taken most of Michael's ability to feel fear, as well as most of his hope and most of his ability to depend on others.

A lot of that is why he would try to save the living Mike if his life was in danger.

The final moment of life for ghost Michael was watching the culmination of everything he'd ever done wrong end in the death of his little brother. Things literally could not get worse. In the span of a moment, Michael's self image went from an unnurtured kid who doesn't understand why his life is so unfair to "I am literally the worst possible human being on the planet." While Evan was in the hospital, before the Mikes had seperated, the view was that he had fucked up so badly that could never possibly do anything good. There was no going up from that rock bottom. No matter what, Michael was destined to be horrible and every action he took would end in the suffering of someone innocent, just like Evan.

For ghost Michael, that was the end.

But living Michael?

He went on. He started to clean up the mess. He couldn't bring the dead back to life, he couldn't undo the pain Evan had endured, or that his father's victims had suffered through, but he did try to help. He visited the graves, he went to the Fazbear locations, he figured out what had been done and researched how to stop it. He mellowed out, he kept to himself, he wasn't hurting anybody else.

And ghost Michael was there, the entire time. Watching.

There was a version of him out there, trying to fix things. Someone who was kind and brave and trying so very hard to do the right thing, someone kit Mike could have been, but would never be.

Both editions of Michael are filled to the brim with self loathing, but kit Mike thinks fox Mike is destined to do good where he had failed. He's not as scared, and he's older, smarter. He's learned from his mistakes in a way the thirteen year old version of himself couldn't really hope to understand. They go through situations where the living Michael is making choices, and the Michael who died is watching, knowing that he would have run away back there, or that he would have said something a little too mean to that person, or that he would have somehow screwed that up.

The only good thing he could possibly do is protect this new Michael, so he does.

I do think a Michael who had been scooped would be able to see ghost Mike, but it might start with a near death experience before that. Maybe the prior situations where ghost Mike tried to keep him safe were ones he would have managed to get out of anyway, but not this time. The cold hand that grabs him, half in earnest to protect, and half in fear and the residual instinct of a child saying protect me, I'm scared, is the only thing that saves him.

It's not until they go back home that night that Michael sees him, but I have trouble working out how he'd react. I think there'd be an initial freeze response, but after that is more complicated.

Kit Mike can definitely see the ghost kids. Seeing Evan is really hard for him, because it's his fault and Evan is scared, but I do think the latter would show himself sometimes. They haven't really fully worked through anything, but there are little shows of I see you, I know you're there on either side. Kit Michael doesn't really know how to say that he's sorry, but he's there every time fox Mike has said it. He leaves little things, toys, at the grave and at the diner when no one is looking.

He can see the other ghost kids, too. Some of the MCI kids aren't much younger than he is. They talk, sometimes. Maybe they even play games. I don't know if Evan told them what happened, but I don't think they see him as much of a current threat. He's essentially tethered to the other Michael, and they've not seen him do much other than follow him around like a lost puppy.

Now that I think about it, that might prevent the scoop, actually. Elizabeth and everyone else who'd fallen victim to Circus Baby and co might not understand that Michael had grown into his father's face, but a recognizable younger Mike who's right there, explaining it to them, pleading for them not to hurt his only chance to do some good? They may or may not believe him, but, either way, I think kit Mike would manage to stop it. If this is after fox Mike was able to see and hear him, he could straight up just... tell him what he's seen going on.

I think that the existence of kit Mike would sort of force Michael to evaluate what he once was. As much as he hates it, it's really hard to quell the instinct to comfort and protect when faced with a scared kid promising you that you aren't going to mess up this time, because he's been watching and you've been doing all the right things that he never could.