#might redraw this digitally at some point
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raptorwozhere · 29 days ago
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i love these silly kids so much
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wolfythewitch · 6 months ago
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not entirely happy with it haha, didn't have enough time to polish the concept but wahoo jarchivist moment
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maxlovespigeons · 4 months ago
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With the return of my hyperfixation, have some art I've drawn in the past I don't think I've ever posted to Tumblr
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crystalchimera · 5 days ago
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Originally posted June 5 on Twitter/X.
Love them <3
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foxsoulart · 2 months ago
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Chill vibes for your Sunday morning?
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seaofreverie · 5 months ago
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Doodle time (Ray visits the park) + no color version because I like it too
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magneart · 5 months ago
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🎨✨ Exploring Artistic Horizons: Jonathan Sims & Hades Game ✨🎨
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Dabbled in digital art today! Tried capturing Jonathan Sims from TMA and got hooked on the Hades game format. Apologies to Hades fans if it's off! 😅 Check out my latest creations here: Link
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dailyink · 9 months ago
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2/23/24
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mudkirby · 10 months ago
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Pebbles In order of appearance.
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@druidshollow lore lore lore Dune lore lore
@flickering-nightfall whole reason I draw Pebbles the way I do since first exposure
@toxictoxicities b u f f
@dennis7231 still waiting on them dropwigs >:)
@weepinglilvessel ant snooooot
@mudkirby me :> 🔫
@shkika love your Suns
@northflowerowo Sorry I shoved him so far down lol
Honourable mentions/ shout outs: @trashiiplant Howwow Knight and Wainwowld :D
@kelnexia is lurking.
@daszombes Thank you for explaining lore, giving us peak story telling and characters to simp for in the form of the Iterator Logs. What? No Pebbles? Don't care. You're on here now.
Druid's Hollow, the first time I ever saw your YouTube channel was with the Distant Frontier video after just having gotten into Iterator Logs. One of the most pivotal pieces of media you've made in my life was God- Jake Daniels. That single video alone gave me the push I needed to make my first Rainworld oc Parting Clouds. The stories surrounding your characters (and Dune) are creative beyond my ability to write stories. Keep up your top tier memery.
Flickering Nightfall, I'ma put this in a nutshell. Duckdance. After that I found your blog via Google before I made a Tumblr and became enthralled by your content. From something as obscure to me as Infinity Train to Pebbles ragdolling, you were essentially my gateway into liking Iterators. I love the purple. I need moar.
Vic, b u f f I haven't known your blog long and was introduced to you through the My Goodbye animation. Since I was sort of entirely new to Rainworld at that point, I had no idea what was happening. I just saw a well drawn thing and went "oooooo". I'm all for Suns' antenna twitches and NSH box head. Also, body pillow 💀
Dennis, one of the first blogs I found when I first started Tumblr. I found you through the @iterator-ask-blog and found bullying Pebbles hilarious. I love the way you draw the yellow things on his head and I just appreciate that you do digital in general. I do not, will not and proceeds to die if I must. I've seen quick progress with your art style as well. Keep going.
Vessel, I barely know you. Who da heck are ye? I saw your art style once and knew I needed to follow. The way you draw Pebbles and Moon are so satisfying to stare at for minutes and I had way too much fun replicating that s n o o t. I don't know what you're up to with them aside from chaos. Murky Seas' story and design are fantastic. RIP
Shkika, I only found you through the @ask-looks-to-the-moon blog and love the way you draw the Iterators. It's very stylistic without straying too far. The three fingered hands to the goofy faces Moon expresses makes me smile. B a l l s. My Suns design was more so inspired by the way you make him as you were somehow the first Suns exposure. You're the only reason I can't see him without fluff. How did you make Pebbles cute kavvkatkcfadal
Northflowo, way back in 2022 in my first exposure to Hollow Knight, I found your channel through the Baby Mantis skin video with Nosk along with the lore in a nutshell video. Any other content I saw I forgor. In any case, your channel was there in my search for knowledge on that game. Fast-forward to the near conclusion of 2023 when I was first introduced to Rainworld. In my hunt for memes and more knowledge, I found the other lore in a nutshell video and realized you were the perfect channel for me as you had plenty of other content on that subject. Your art still manages to astound me, especially with the shot you did in the map Pliocene and the Warrior Cats redraws like with the waterfall. I'm trash at drawing backgrounds and might learn something from you.
And of great importance to me, @bornt-urnge/@zigmatism
@kitterjitters /@offended-dragon
Thank you for every moment of drawing from Pokemon to Kirby to Mire (oc) and anything else. You have made some of the largest impacts on my life, drawing, game choices and I've enjoyed every moment. I want to have more ridiculous sessions like that in the future and look forward to it.
Some of you have been around in my life for some time and others I've just found. All the same, every single art piece you've made has inspired me no matter how polished, memed or "trash". All of you have made an impact on me, no matter how miniscule. I look forward to the future with anticipation for all of your art. Have a terrific year, and with my deepest gratitude, thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for reading this.
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transsimmonss · 1 month ago
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"we could have built the future together."
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redraw of a terrible sketch from a couple years ago when i tried to draw human forms for megop...was gonna do digital but my ipad charger broke so im stuck with traditional for now...
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original below the cut (tw: ugly)
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might still digitize this at some point, but who knows. goodnight 😭
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dailymarshmallows · 24 days ago
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I FINALLY FULFILLED MY GOAL!!
Second half of Genderbend Tristan platoon (Tristan and Jade) as promised!!!
The second I realized I would post Tristan and Jade’s designs together I realized I had to redraw this scene from the anime. I did really change their height difference, Tristan’s really just taller though (thank you Elizabeth) for all those curious Chion’s height is like somewhat between them and Isolde is just… jack up the really insane height difference.
For the rest of Genderbend 4kota designs here’s what I’ve done so far: Isolde + Chion and post-timeskip Chion (not a lot but hopefully there will be more)
If I continue with this next update is probably gonna be either more Jade or Chion art, Aged up versions of platoon, or Donny and Edlin
I haven’t put this anywhere but if anyone wants to ask about the Genderbend characters and stuff my ask box is open. If you want to request a specific sds/4kota character’s Genderbend design I might do it, just expect it to probably take a while and it will probably be done in traditional art.
Design rambles about the art as well as some Genderbend Tristan Platoon (emphasis on Tristan) lore below the cut
Jade’s hair was a pain to design yall don’t even kno T-T I like the design better in traditional art but I wanted to post the digital version of the design for consistency.
What made Jade’s design so hard was that how to give her wing like hair to kinda come through, og she was going to have a middle part, then I thought maybe something like Arlecchino’s design from Genshin but I thought Jade would have short hair so I ditched that. So she ended up with this and I tried to keep the wing design there with the shape of her hair.
Tristan’s design was not what I initially had in mind but here’s kinda my thought process behind it: her hair looks more like what I imagine fem Meliodas would look like, and she’s wearing a full suit of armor cuz… do u really think Mel and Elizabeth are letting their daughter go out WITHOUT A SUIT OF ARMOR?! I don’t think so.
Neither of their clothes were what I initially imagined, Tristan was either gonna wear gold or silver and red, but then I put her in dark blue and I got a thought:
Since Jade, Chion, and Tristan tend to match I put them all in various shades of cyan/blue. Chion has light cyan, Tristan has dark blue, and Jade has both for Monochrome reasons.
Also when Jade dies her jewelry is then worn by each member of the Tristan Platoon. Tristan gets the choker and Isolde and Chion get the hair clips.
Also Jade’s hair clips and choker are made of actual jade (gifts from Chion and Tristan respectively)
Quick Fun Facts about them:
They are both tomboys
At some point Tristan had a crush on Jade (she was going through her romance phase yall and Lance was off on missions and stuff what’s a girl gonna do?)
Tristan really likes holding sleepovers (she has tried to do a full Tristan Platoon one but Mel and Elizabeth won’t allow it for Isolde)
My personal hc is that Tristan always wanted a younger sibling when she was younger and kinda projects that fantasy onto Chion. So from her perspective they kinda have an idealized older/younger sister dynamic.
To elaborate further: Tristan kinda sees Chion as this girl that she takes under her wing and dotes on and what not. This leaves her with a pretty wrong overall interpretation of Chion. She very much just sees the “Tristan (platoon)-exclusive part” which is very kind, very helpful, and someone that she needs to protect/look out for.
I love Chion but u see the problem with that interpretation of her
It’s also the reason why I’m on the fence if Chion’s hair is still getting burned off by Gawain if only cuz Tristan and Isolde 100% would throw hands (and I don’t wanna give Chion a hair cut pre timeskip too much work)
Additionally Tristan really likes Chion’s long hair and likes to braid it and play dress up with her at the sleepovers
Tristan gets a lot of flack for how she presents herself, lots of people think that a princess shouldn’t act that way and stuff
Tristan and Jade have a very similar dynamic to canon. Tristan sees Jade as her best friend. And Jade sees Tristan as… a girl she secretly hates… you’ve read her death scene
Tristan was the one who gave the hair bow to Isolde still, but after seeing how much he liked it Jade gave him some of her old girly things she wasn’t really into, and Chion “just happened” to pick up some new accessories and gave them to him.
Idk why I wanted to do this but here’s all there types(romantic)
Tristan - she’s into more masc women or more feminine men (there you go Trislance and Trisolde shippers)
Chion - says she’s into masc women but it’s not really a factor for her. Wants someone bold, and kinda like a knight in shining armor, prob reads Isolde’s romance novels
Isolde - wants cheesy romance, does not care if he is romancer or romancee he wants cheesy rom com romance
Jade - wants someone who needs her/relies on her since she struggles with feeling unwanted
Another random romantic thingy there are so many romcom hijinks with this platoon there are so many misunderstandings with who is and isn’t a couple:
People of Liones think that Chion and Isolde are a couple. Isolde was heavily convinced that Tristan had a crush on Jade (right conclusion but at the wrong time). Tristan was convinced that Jade and Chion were dating at one point. Tristan was convinced Chion had a crush on Lancelot at one point (I may actually write a fanfic on that for comedy reasons).
As for actual crushes: Chion likes Jade. Jade likes Isolde. Isolde likes Tristan. Tristan likes Lancelot
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kustas · 2 months ago
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I recently witnessed someone on twitter with the spicy but interesting position of: the only people vehemently bitching against 2D puppets are the animators who have to use them. So, what's the tea, why's this debate even a thing, and is one side wrong?
Rigged 2D animation, also known as puppet animation, and prolly other terms I'm not aware of. Most 2D animators I know treat it with disdain as something they're forced to work on to survive instead of "real" animation (=hand drawn in this case), and while I've encountered less negative sentiments towards the medium coming from fans, I have seen several people complain about it unknowingly, correctly nailing visual aspects they don't like without knowing their cause. Additionally, it can be really hard to tell apart what's rigged and what's hand drawn in 2D, with many series mixing both to their advantage.
The reason for rigged stuff being so prevalent is that it's cheaper and faster. Where hand drawn requires redrawing your entire character/thing frame by frame to make it move, puppet animation uses, well, puppets, ready-made articulated models you just need to pose. It's also possible to use interpolation - instead of deciding by hand every image between two poses, you let the computer calculate it and come later to tweak how each part moves to make it look good. There is little to no drawing involved in rigged 2D, asides of rare shots that need a little part drawn over when the puppet can't do something specific, or drawing the eyes/mouths/hands/etc when you're making the puppets themselves. Notice I said series and not films in my previous paragraph - this is because animations with longer runtimes and/or shorter production times benefit strongly from this medium. You will not need to clean, to inbetween, to color and whatever other steps can go in hand drawn 2D when you have puppets. You can use the interpolations to your advantage on some movements. It's near impossible to be off model. You don't even need to draw!
And most animators uh, they're here because they like to draw. You can say animating and drawing are two different things, that is true, I've even heard it from the mouth of an insanely talented hand drawn animator called Liane-Cho Han who described himself as a poor drawer despite an impressive 2D portfolio. Poor drawer, good animator, it blew my mind at the time but when I started animating I understood what he meant. But puppet animation is still animation, and much closer to how 3D animation works, with stop-motion being comparable to hand drawn in terms of difference between these mediums. Yet you don't see industry-spanning bitching about 3D vs stop motion! This leads to my next point: puppets are limiting.
One of the advantages of hand drawn animation compared with other animation techniques especially those using character rigs is that you're not limited to said rigs. You can just draw anything, regardless of digital puppet constraints, of art style, of physics. If you can put it on paper, you can animate it. Puppets, both 3D and 2D, have limitations - the art needs to be made (sculpt, drawings) and be placed on a complex invisible digital skeleton allowing you to correctly manipulate your character, which is a job in itself. The more stuff you want your character to be able to do, the more complex it gets. You can't automate all of it. This means productions with lower budget and/or ambitions will tend to have simpler rigs which allow less. An example is angles: when you're hand drawing a character and want to pose them, you can pick whatever angle you'd like for all body parts. Rigs might not give this as an option, especially subtler angles of the head and foreshortening. This might make some movements you had in mind impossible, with a need to stylize your poses and your breakdowns. Not being able to have these angles can make for animation that looks stiff or awkward and can be very annoying to work with depending on the animator.
That artificial stiffness is to me, one of the telling signs something is rigged, and part of the reasons I don't like it myself! That's right, I'm with the haters here. Except stiffness doesn't necessarily mean something used digital rigs, and stiffness isn't inherently a bad thing - as with all art styles, it can just be that, a stylistic choice. Enters a director who's work I'll use as a counter example to the dislike of 2D puppets, both from an animator's and a hater layman's point of view on the results: Michel Ocelot.
Famous in France and way less internationally, two staples of his work are his fixations on fairytales and Africa. Fittingly, his most famous movie is probably Kirikou, a feature film which mixes both. Ocelot's work is stylized in a way unique to him, which can make his work very repetitive, but also makes it instantly recognizable. Some of his staples include static shot compositions, actors that talk like they're reading their lines out of an old book, busy backgrounds and folk tale tropes. Stiffness is just a part of what his movies look like, as are art styles that take inspiration from traditional art and past periods. He started out working before digital puppets were a thing, and while he's embraced digital techniques, releasing a full CG feature film in the 00s before it was the norm, he has worked without, including on Kirikou which is animated the old way.
The earliest of his films I've seen is called Princes and Princesses, it's already got everything typical of his work, and one of the latest of his films I've seen (and among my personal favorites of everything he's done) is called Black Pharaoh, and while decades and different techniques separate these two, they're both based around, you guessed it, puppets. P&P is a blatant hommage/reference to animation pioneer Lotte Reiniger, who used literal paper puppets to animate fantasy movies who's style is very reminiscent of the graceful, slightly simplified illustrations popular at the time. Black Pharaoh uses digital 2D puppets and is entirely animated using the (meticulously researched) style of ancient egyptian wall paintings. Both of these films tell a story, not like movies usually do, but like an orator retelling a tale does. And it works! The characters don't move in a 3D space, but it doesn't matter, they're from a fresco or are paper. The character's don't move realistically and it doesn't matter either, they're not trying to trick your eyes into looking real, they're characters of a story. Ocelot's films are a case where using puppets and their limitations works in favor of the film, not otherwise, and his stuff that's not made with puppets looks like it could be.
I'll briefly talk about a film I hate here to make the final point before my conclusion, netflix's Klaus. This is a film who's insanely impressive animation has floored people regardless of how much they know about animating. Unlike a lot of "this looks very cool" (actually p easy to make) animations you see going viral online, here everyone's right, it is indeed insanely hard to animate like that. Klaus was hailed because of it's uncanny ability to look like modern CG while being entirely hand drawn, which I think is stupid, because it's a lot of effort and talent wasted for a result that looks incredibly generic. Would this film have been bad if it had used CG? Why do people think hand drawn is better than CG in the first place? That I can't answer but the reason studios use it is money: either because it's trendy and will make more money because it's trendy, or because it's cheaper to make, which depends on what you're trying to achieve. In the end, they're techniques. Techniques have pros and cons and things they're better at than others. Time and money are essential to producing a film wether you like it or not.
So: are people wrong to hate on puppets? Nah, it's a question of taste. You can hate the look a technique gives and that's fine. But "ugly" is subjective and it's important to be aware of that if critiquing stuff is your job.
Was that tweet right? Yeah, pretty much, lol. For many if not most animators it's a technique they're forced to use, that removes a major reason they like their job from said job, and can be frustrating to work with. It's worth noting a lot of the work you'll get nowadays is on cheap productions, and the techniques they'll use most will be associated with the slop they are. Doesn't mean you'll inherently make slop. A technique is just that, a technique.
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munkiey · 1 year ago
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Hey I saw some Macaque fanart that looked eerily similar to yours and just wanted to let you know (I might be making a deal of nothing but yeah I'll include a screenshot of the art):
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Alright so.
1: This is likely someone who is doing screenshot redraws from the same images I did that came from a published show that is accessible to millions.
2: Tracing is actually a great way to learn.
Now, credit should be given obviously but there is a huge stigma from folks online about tracing. I can almost promise you that some of your favorite artists out there will look at a work they like and go 'how did they do this?'
Best way to get into the head of another artist? Trace it.
I've done traces of other artists that I admired and honestly I learned a lot from doing so. Did I post these or ever claim them as my own? Absolutely not, that is when you're stealing.
Thousands of professional comic artists, or almost every skilled artist you can think of has traced. This little waltz is like a baby bird taking its first haphazardly drunk steps across a ice pit. We call them screenshot redraws today, but in the fine arts spectrum, they're called Master Studies.
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Because you're looking at someone who has already accomplished something and you want to see how they did it, how you can apply it, and how you as an artist can grow.
The beauty of art is that we can take aspects of things we like and add onto our own work. Its an amalgamation of influences that compound together to create the concept we call an artist. I love seeing where people draw their inspiration from.
3: Personally, I think that it's good that this person is taking some steps into digital and learning. Looking at the line weight and the way they use their tools it seems that they're still learning how they want to navigate the digital platform. This is a great way for them to improve an if they had, allegedly, used my images at reference then I'm honored they saw something to admire in it!
The fact that they practiced at all is way more than I can say for others that say they want to improve but don't put the effort in.
4: Now, final point here.
In the future, please do not come to me like this.
I appreciate you trying to give me a heads up, but I'm not going to sit here and reprimand or police people. This kind of message to me feels like a rather deliberate attempt to stir up drama, which if it was not your intention and you genuinely were just looking out for me, I appreciate you trying. The way I see it though, reporting people like this or going after what may very well be kids trying to learn creates a toxic mentality that I don't want anything to do with. I've been there, done that, and been on the receiving end of that nastiness.
I've learned a lot through my time online and the big lesson sometimes is just to let people do what they're gonna do.
Seriously though, who ever did this has a very cute style. I like the smile headshot there in the middle.
Stay wild <3
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katisinfactthebestofbois · 7 months ago
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kAt is trembling, I had never been so quite good in digital art, I somehow acquired skills. I’m scared..
Anyways, this scene from Season 4 Episode 2(I believe) has been stuck with me for a while… I had to redraw it at some point. Anyways, kAt is still quite new to social media and other people, but I am quite glad that there are other people that have the same interest as I. (:
I think I might post thoughts/hc/etc. once I get the courage to, that is—..
(kAt is also learning how to navigate and what to do on tumblr, kAt lacks in the brain department a little so it might take a bit!)
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inkprovised · 7 months ago
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I thought it would be a good moment for me to post this.^^
Every time I struggle with my art and hate everything... I go back.
Something I recommend doing if you're about to burn everything!
I took some time to search for some OLD art of mine... there is nothing left that shows the absolute beginning. But I can explain a little how it went: (aka recreate some stuff)
You think your art sucks??
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This is how my first art looked like. imagnie everything even more off XDD
God knows what was wrong with my kindergarten- brain, but I shit you not. I needed a very long time to get rid of the T-pose! 🫠 wth
no neck, no eyebrows... ya know- the good stuff!
I remember I've drawn all the Sailor Warriors on the street with chalk multiple times, and I remember there must be a photograph of them. Should I ever find it... Maybe I'll post it 🤣🤣🤣
The (probably) oldest drawing I could find.... behold:
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Jeeezuz fuck.
'What on earth is anatomy??' Remember everyone starts from zero.🤣
The Pokemon phenomenon. It was my life when I was younger, and I am shocked I did not draw very much of it. 😶 (but I had the plan of redrawing all 151 Pkmn!!! I did about 10 in the end) lol
Who does not have a special book to learn how to draw.🥲
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I think this was my first one... well. Burn it! Not sure it helped much on this end to be honest ^^;
I had a lot other books after that XD
Sometimes you just need a guide.
Seeing my old art reminds me how far I've come and it's the proof I'm getting better!
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Look at the anatomy! The folding of cloth! Perfection! lol Do I see Detective Conan, Lord of the Rings, Legend of Zelda and Dragonball influence?? XDD
Seeing all of this, I am so happy I never quit.
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Redrawing. Observation skills were non-existent
Draw what you see!!! You'll learn shit if you don`t 'recreate'. What do you think where your brain gets all the information it needs?
Both Zoro pictures are from the same year. Don't know about you but sometimes my skills jump like crazy!! There are 10-15yo pics that look better than all what I can do today. Thats weird!
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Gawd I hate it now lol But I loved it the time I made this.
I grew up loving to draw. I did not do it to show it to someone in the first place. Since I had no speacial goal I got better very slowly, but that's fine. I never pushed my skills actively forward- so there's nothing to complain about.
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"Layer? What's a Layer?!" vs "Oh. Layer."^^ WTF
The digital journey began with ms paint (left) I scanned the lines and used a mouse.
Paint net (right) still no graphic tablet but the program had line- and curve thingys I could draw with and of course.... Layer XD
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I don't know exactly- but between this pictures might be 2 or 3 years. This is from my non shipping time. These days this is totally shipping content and you are not allowed to think otherwise XD Platonic love (bromance) seems not to be a thing online anymore. And I miss it.
I lived for the aesthetics!!! Still do XD
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Realistic stuff helped me. Everytime I tryed to draw irl people in manga/comic style - you had NO chance to recognise them XDD That got better haha
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Redrawings. A great way to see how much better you 've become.^^
A little tip:
Write the date onto your artpiece. (onto the backside if you draw on paper) You'll be thankfull in a couple of years^^
Don't give up Peoples!!
And one other thing: If you desperately try to find your style: How you draw right now IS your style. And you (can) have different styles. It changes all the time! It's not an end point of your drawing journey- because there is none. Keep evolving. Find ways to draw you like. Even then, move on^^
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Hope you feel better^^ I hate it when people show you their "first arts" and it's some advanced stuff :(
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amerricanartwork · 1 year ago
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Current digital art process!
Acting on @shkika 's request because making my redraw for this post actually ended up giving me more confidence in my digital art process! As such, I'm gonna use it as a reference. And if this walkthrough of sorts turns out nice, I might do it again as my process evolves!
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I started off with a quick sketch of sorts, trying to focus both on movement and volume, and get the general idea of where each element is located. I edit the image dimensions and placement of things a lot in this phase, as my ideas often tend to change once I actually begin drawing them. In this case, as I got it down, I decided I wanted it to look like some cheesy animal motivational poster, so that influenced where the text was.
From there, I began to clean and sometimes edit the sketch, mainly by thickening the lines to make the shapes more definite, and erasing what wasn't necessary and interfered with other parts. Volume is one of my biggest focuses in my drawings, so I try my best to get the volume of each character at least hinted at with the lines. This is something that will probably remain in my process for a while, as I quite dislike doing separate lineart and like the messy, sketchy feel anyway.
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I also wanna mention, in addition to having references and such in other windows, I've recently begun having a second mini window of my current drawing off to the side so I can see what it looks like overall more easily, regardless of how much I zoom in on and flip the main window. It's quite helpful!
For reference, this is what the final sketch looked like:
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Then, I went on to add the flat colors. Another tip: I almost always set my sketch layer to "Lumi & Shade" because I think it makes the line colors a lot richer, but since it's based on what colors are underneath, it colors the lines a lot more individually than changing the sketch color as a whole. Here's some comparison to a version without the effect (left):
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Then, I add some shading using a (really nice) marker brush. This is honestly one of my favorite parts of the process, just trying to carve out all the volumes, especially since I usually use a pretty blue color for shadows!
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Sometimes, I honestly just leave drawings finished at this step, because I adore the sketchy look so much, and because I really don't like the tediousness of more realistic rendering in the painting process; from what I've seen/experienced, it often involves having to basically paint the entire image over again, which I've realized I find REALLY boring (and is also why I clean the sketch instead of making a new lineart layer). As such, one of my hopes is to reach a point where I could almost completely avoid having to clean up the image in a traditional painting method, instead being able to lay down lines and colors so well that they convey nearly all the volume necessary on their own, still have that sketchy appeal, yet also look finished and professional.
Alas, I did do a bit of clean up on this image, but I think it still turned out alright!
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Here's the finished drawing! I'll have to practice with this process a bit more to truly solidify it as my digital go-to, but nonetheless, I think this came out adorable! Thanks again shkika for the ask, and thanks to @mintscampi for the sweet prompt! I hope you guys like it!
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