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#menelaus x paris
bugbear55 · 12 hours
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WOOOOOOO
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hurricanes-art · 2 years
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY @littlesparklight !!! I hope it's wonderful! For you, Menelaus- who's caught himself a lovey prince of Troy :> Whatever will he do with him... (plus the doodles from a while ago, since I forgot to post them lol)
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incorrecthomer · 2 months
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Menelaus: Is that your hand on my wife's ass? Paris: It was an accident. Menelaus: Your hand is still on her ass. Paris: IT'S STILL AN ACCIDENT
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dootznbootz · 6 months
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I'm happy that the "Helen is of Sparta, not Troy" post is getting seen and people are giving love to her as they should but I'm getting a wee bit frustrated by the Menelaus inclusion with the whole "She was a possession to others and never had a choice".
Yes, Helen is a victim of fate and multiple horrible circumstances. She gets kidnapped by Theseus and Paris. So much blame is being put on her when she really isn't at fault and doesn't have much choice.
A choice she made though? WAS MENELAUS!
The Oath of Tyndareus was all about how "If you want to have a chance of marrying her, you have to swear to respect her and her choice and defend their marriage if it's needed".
If anything, Menelaus was her "prize"! Not the other way around!!! And they are clearly shown caring for one another!!! uyfuygluhyutfugy
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dilutedh2so4 · 13 days
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I need one of those masc to fem lesbian scale chart meme things but with Menelaus at one end and Paris at the other and Helen in the middle
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hermesmoly · 20 days
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I just realized that Kaos tried so hard to turn Orpheus and Eurydice into Helen and Menelaus.
That reminds me of how ppl also try to write Hephaestus and Aphrodite as Helen and Menelaus.
(Again, is true love really a boring plot line nowadays? Man, Let Eurydice like her husband.)
Yeah the uh. “Sacrificing Loyal Boyfriend /Evil Cheating Girlfriend Who Doesn’t Deserve it” trope. Done to a couple who in the myths just really loved each other. Boo 👎👎👎
The thing is the premise was a bit promising at the start; Orpheus going to the Underworld for a Eurydice that has fallen out of love for him. While watching them I found myself asking questions like: Would you fight death itself for someone even if you knew they wouldn’t do the same for you? If they didn’t love you the way you love them? The answer being yes is essentially Menelaus’ drive, because to Menelaus, especially to Menelaus, Helen was worth fighting for. It’s why he (all heavily morally questionable aspects of it aside) wages war and all its consequences to get Helen back home. Love is a strong motivator, thorns and all. The only difference between Menelaus and Orpheus is Menelaus wielding a spear and a thousand men to prove it while Orpheus had only his lyre and his words as a great poet.
AND THE POINT, THE POINT of the Orpheus Eurydice myth is even if their love was doomed, even if he knew the ending, Orpheus would have still loved her, he still would have tried to traversed the Underworld for her, and he still would have looked back, because he loved her. Most accounts have Eurydice die shortly after their wedding— they never even had a chance to settle down, to have a family, to grow old together. The grief of that pain to be translated through song was enough to melt a King’s heart.
Eurydice in the myths was worth fighting for. Eurydice in the show however? Didn’t even seem to care about Orpheus at all. Like not even as a friend. The two episodes I’ve watched had Eurydice being so good at faking being in love Orpheus dedicates songs to her. Despite what we see that she never makes an actual effort for Orpheus. How do you sing your heart out for a woman who doesn’t even remember your favorite cereal? It’s just so laughably bad and written with no care.
As for Hephaestus/Aphrodite… I can see the temptation to make them Like That but it just isn’t comparable. Helen leaving Troy (either via force or willingness) leaving Menelaus and Hermione behind is too different from Hephaestus learning of Aphrodite's infidelity by lying to him about Eros’ (and seemingly Harmonia’s) parentage. Helen could have made an impulsive decision, could have agreed to it only to regret it or maybe she wasn’t given a choice, but it's leagues better than Aphrodite lying straight to Hephaestus’ face, even if she regrets it. Just let them divorce!!!
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akekiitaz · 11 days
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Hard not to sympathize with the Greeks when menelaus says SHE WAS MY LIGHT BUT SOME THIEF IN THE NIGHT HAS TAKEN HER AND LEFT ME BLIND
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jsajhbdbfkpia · 4 months
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Queen of Sparta
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dilfaeneas · 1 year
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What a wonderful family I hope nothing happens to it
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i was thinking of patroclus, as you do, and i just think he’s—
i almost said “can achilles fight?” 💀 i take that back because obviously he can, and if i actually fought him i’d die…but i would still fight him anyway ngl
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incorrecthomer · 5 months
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Menelaus breaks into the bedroom: where is he!! undressed Helen: who? Hermione: dad? Menelaus: dear, help me find mom's side bitch Hermione looks under the bed: uncle Paris, have you seen mom's side bitch?
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streets-in-paradise · 8 months
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Eternal Courtship - Achilles x (fem)Captive!Reader
Troy (2004) Oneshot
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Requested by Anon
" hi dearr! Please a story of achilles, in which he falls in love with a woman in the middle of the war and shows his most sensitive side (in the achilles way)"
Abso-fucking-lutely!
I love this so much and hope I did your request justice. Like i told you in the answer of your ask, I got the idea of making her a captive because it's an easy way for them to meet in the middle of the war, but their dynamic is the opposite of the one he has with Briseis in the movie's canon.
Warnings: warrior x war captive romance with grumpy x sunshine vibes. It's implied that the war lasts a bit longer than in the movie, with a time gap happening between the arrival of the greeks/argument of Achilles and Agamemnon and the pacted combat of Paris and Menelaus. This fic is meant to take place in the course of that time gap.
Summary: The wrath of Achilles is a matter of grief for the greeks, but it comes like a ray of hope in your days as their captive. His absense on the battlefield is good news for your people at the other side of the wall, and a calming sign for you. Despite his countrymen are too focused on his pride as the major cause, you believe a warlord willing to risk so much for a simple slave girl is someone capable of performing noble acts.
Intrigued by the glimpses of that kindness he refuses to acknowledge, you approach him without fear and your guesses get confirmed. In your determination to prove that he has a heart, you fail to realize of your slow conquest of it, untill the proof you are looking for comes in the form of his passionate love.
Note: Inspired by a prompt by @creativepromptsforwriting
Prompt 9 - " Why do you always manage to persuade me with your charm? "
Tags: @thorsslxve
The greek army was marching, but the myrmidons had stayed. Their leader refused to take them to combat in protest for the humillation he suffered through the mistreatement of his stolen slave. Briseis, your companion in captivity, was dragged away to the tent of Agamemnon, and the things you have heard about that man were so vile that you feared for her fate more than yours. Her first master had given you to his cousin, a lad younger than you, and you would have never imagined he himself would bother that much for her. Still, he went as far as abstaining from fighting when she got taken away from him.
What happened on the tent of the mycenaean king was commented all over the camp. It was said that the angry myrmidon was about to kill the guards, fellow greeks on his side of the war, for that trojan girl he had just meet. In the language of men, Briseis wasn't different from a pile of gold. They spoke of insults on the honor of the invincible warrior being deprived of his reward as the cause of such mercieless reaction coming from his pride. Ríght after leaving the tent with evident frustration, Patroclus claimed his cousin was heartless for abandoning their countrymen over a distribution dispute. If captives were the issue, he was willing to give you back to him. After all, he didnt want a slave in the first place. You were the compensation he received for not being allowed to fight, a distraction Achilles wanted him to have so he won't insist on the matter.
Since he remained on his tent for the rest of the day, you were sent there as an unwanted present returned to its source. It was the first time you were going to be completely alone with Achilles, and you had a peculiar opinion on him.
To you, his recent actions couldn't be framed as a mere temper tantrum. For as much desperate as the greeks could be to get back his intervention on the war, all their defeats without him would be blamed on him. It was a huge risk for his reputation, that he took after nearly assasinating some fellow soldiers trying to protect a slave.
What the camp perceived as brutal selfishness were acts of great kindness in your perspective. The man you despised barely a few hours ago had won your respectfull admiration. Curiosity overcame any fears as you peeked inside his self reclusion shelter. Common sense would have suggested to approach with caution. Instead, you were standing there with a polite smile and a bowl of food.
He barely looked at you, too lost in hoarding anger.
" I'm not hungry. "
The dry treatment didn't stop you.
" A bit lonely, perhaps? " You sweetly inquirred. " Patroclus is worried for you, so he has decided to give you his present hoping to cheer you up over loosing Briseis. "
The explanation got him more interested in starting a conversation.
" Is that what he believes i'm all about? The reason of my rage? A toy the big bad king took from me and i can simply replace? " He mocked the presented assumption. " I promised that girl that I would keep her safe. I gave her my word, but Agamemnon spat on it. "
The response was fascinating, even better than what you imagined.
" I value your commitement to that promise, no other would have defended her as fiercely as you did. "
Achilles received the compliment with skepticism.
" You should have seen how repulsed she was by that. "
The warrior was pretending to be careless because he wanted to know your opinion. Used as he was to stumble with the hate of Briseis, your more docile attitude was hard to understand because you didn't seem scared enough to be pretending submission.
" I'm impressed, and quite confused. " You admitted as you took your first steps inside. " The destroyer of the temple didn't hesitate in spilling the blood of sacred servants, yet barely a few hours later he turned against his own kind to protect the last one standing. "
You paced arround the place seeking for a spot to leave your load, then passively invited him to check it by choosing one on his reach.
" Your countrymen think you are being recklessly selfish, but i believe otherwise. A man who risks so much for a war prisoner he just meet proves that he is more than the destruction he caused. "
The trusting bright in your eyes got him out of his absortion.
" I will have to break your childish illusions, girl : all i care about is glory. Agamemnon is denying me the recognition i deserve, breaking my pacts for me, and I can't allow it."
To that seriously delivered statement, all you did was releasing some light chuckles and proceed to deliver some sweet mockery.
" Sure, sir … Whatever you say. "
Never before a stranger had reacted to him in such a relaxed way. Hate would have been easier to deal with than your sweetness.
He had no weapons to fight it, only his sarcasm.
" Mind to explain what you find so amusing?"
You didn't mind to share your theory, impatient to see how he would react to it.
" Turns out you have a heart after all, and you are upset because i discovered it. "
Achilles gave you the cold look he would show for an enemy in a singular combat.
" I'm a ruthless killer, I would slaughter your entire family and feel nothing about it. "
The warning was completely effectiveless.
" You couldn't even handle my best friend to your king knowing he would be capable of raping her. " You reminded him. " And you gave me to your cousin already aware that he would respect me. "
Facts had spoken better than his words and he realized that your nice positivity wasn't foolishness.
" That doesn't change what i am, only tells you that I wouldn't hurt helpless women."
" And you think that's not important? In this war, particularly?" You recalled inmediately. " I heard other greeks cheering themselves up saying they would all sleep with the wife of a trojan to avenge Menelaus. If the spartan king lost control of his wife, then marriage as an institution is threatened. They need to kill Helen and rape as many trojan women as they can so the horror will keep their women at bay. "
Intrigued by the practical wisedown of your words, he tapped with his hands a spot for you to sit beside him. As you followed the command, you remembered the food served near him.
" Eat, I made it specially for you. "
Achilles looked at what appeared to be an exotic version of a lamb stew.
" Are you trying to win me over with trojan food? It's humanly impossible for you to be this kind after what I have done to you." He concluded his suspicious inspection. " What's the trick? Is it poisoned? Did you spat inside as you were making it? "
You were still looking at him so sweetly and he became even more disconcerted.
If he needed proof, you were more than willing of eating the food for him given all you had previously was the terrible dishes served for slaves.
" It lacks some of the proper spicing, but I worked hard on it, so i'm not going to let it go to waste. "
Your shocked master couldnt take his eyes off you, observing you eating as if you were back in your home.
" Is it good? "
" Could have been worse, at least I was given to a good man. " You commented on your situation instead of the dish. " One that would be willing to threaten his own countrymen and inmovilize his army if something wrong happens to me. "
The praise made him smirk.
" Lovely … Where do you find such niceness?"
You drank some of his own wine before replying.
" King Priam's philosophy is deeply based on the power of kindness. "
He stiffled a chuckle, fearing you may find his amusement insulting.
" He should reconsider the strategy, wars aren't won with kindness."
" No, but small gestures can make big differences. " You corrected him. " Look arround you : if Agamemnon wouldn't have proceeded with cruelty, he wouldn't have lost your support. It can also be said that the kind promise you did to Briseis has the potentiality to shift the course of the war. "
The myrmidon was speechless, understanding some logical reasoning behind the naive optimism.
" I'm still an enemy of Troy. "
To the dark reminder, you had yet another sweet comeback.
" We can still respect each other. "
Achilles didn't waited much to correct you.
" I believe respect is earned, not owed. "
For the first time in the talk he had trully managed to annoy you.
" Then you can accept that your infamous wrath has earned you my respects and eat your food. "
You got him under his same reasoning and he conceeded you the victory.
" Is there more of that for me to try? "
Achilles developed a clear verdict out of that first encounter. He did enjoy the food, but he liked you way more. Even when your mindsets and attitudes were completely opposite, the way you have choosen to work on that difference made him feel oddly good arround you. No accusations from a stance of moral superiority came from you. Instead, you were proving your higher morals with your everyday acts of mundane kindness. Sometimes he got the feeling that you weren't even really Interested in being the better person, since respect and reciprocity were more important to you than being ríght.
To be yelled at was way easier than adapting to your attentive behavior. Softness like yours was confusing, specially knowing it wasn't performative. You weren't a scared girl trying to appeal a master, those actions simply reflected who you were.
The mystery of how you kept clinging to you kindness in such an adverse context occupied his mind out of boredoom. His thought process constantly battled with the evidence of his everyday getting to know you, trying desperately to ignore he was at the edge of an infatuation.
Making him company wasn't a problem to you, since it was way more of a pleasant activity than doing slave chores on the camp. On good days, you would even manage to get him out of his tent for a walk on the beach at the hours that the ausence of all the other armies made the place more quiet.
Visiting Briseis was complicated even when Agamemnon wasn't near, but you managed to get news proving the protest had some effect. Her new master didn't lay hands on her and she confessed you she believed the man had no idea of what to do with her because he only took her to punish his political rival.
It would be a matter of time before you would reunite again and, once that would happen, you were planning to beg the myrmidon leader for your liberation. Your friend thought that keeping your hopes in that man so up was a mistake, but you were convinced that he could be willing to do the ríght thing. He was hard to deal with, but never cruel to any of you.
In your particular experience, you had no complains of his treatment. If you wouldn't be dressed in misserable clothes everytime you had to wash your only decent dress, you would be feeling as if you were getting to know a suitor that your parents had you promised to. It was a thought you often toyed with, a sort of secret fantasy making the shackles feel lighter.
With the only exception of his self naturalization of nudity, Achilles had behaved like a true gentleman and you were happy to reciprocate the good treatment. However, if he would protectively hold your hand during your incursions outside his tent, you would forget for an instant of the war going on and feel as if you were all alone in a process of eternal courtship.
For as much as he kept denying to have a caring heart, you were seeing it from a mile away. You understood he needed to keep the facade despite that was all it was. Appearances, his rougeness of warrior hidding his sweeter emotions. At the time most greeks were calling him heartless, blind to their suffering, he stopped making himself blind to the pain of the only ones in the camp they won't care about.
He turned his back against them, but showed you his heart.
Every night since you left the tent of Patroclus, the new routine with Achilles was having dinner together and sharing the límits of his tent to sleep. In the beggining, he allowed you to have your space and pick a corner to be away from him. That changed one rainy night, when the sound of thunder from outside made you seek shelter on him.
Achilles noticed inmediately how you approached in silence to snuggle against him like a scared child.
" Did your parents never told you that's just Zeus bringing his cheers to mortals? "
You looked up to face him, as if you were trying to justify yourself but couldn't come up with anything.
" They did, but that didn't change much … Thunder still frightens me. "
Darkness didn't hide from him the peculiar beauty of your pleading face and he simply couldn't resist it. Patience lead him to a good end and you were approaching him willingly. He felt you clinging to his firm body, using him for comfort in a sleepless night and begging with your eyes that he would let you in.
It was perfect, perhaps too perfect.
" Mind if we stay like this tonight?" In your cluelessness about his feelings, you finally asked. " The weather gets on my nerves. "
He dreamed of being so close to you, but would have cutted one of his hands before admitting such vulnerability.
" Why do you always manage to persuade me with your charm ? "
He got to hear more of your light chuckling thinking that, if he wouldn't be cautious about scaring you, he would have kissed you.
You started to relax arround him and that allowed you to explain yourself better.
" My uncle died in the sea, a bad storm wrecked the ship and very few survived to tell the story. Briseis' father was with him, loosing someone when we were so little brought us close and that's how we became friends … What I never told her is that I blamed myself for years because my father was meant to go in that travel too, but he had other business to attend in the city. "
The usually cheerfull tone of your voice turned sadly serious as you tried not to cry remembering that.
" Why did I got to have mine and she lost hers? Her uncle told us it was the will of the gods, … but it's all happening again. She is stucked with Agamemnon while i'm safe with you. "
He understood the reason of your guilt, but wasn't going to let you keep thinking on that.
" Lucky girl. " He purred in a raspy voice. " Do you like being with me? "
The crashing sounds outside made you grip him tighter and he rounded your waist with one arm. The poor garments you were wearing made it odd to the touch and he wished he would be feeling your skin instead. Following his sleeping habit, he was naked at least from the waist up, and he did noticed you developing a subtle curiosity for his body.
" You are nice. " Was your vague reply. " Patroclus was very dissapointed when we meet. "
It wasn't exactly what he was looking for, but he kept trying.
" Trust me, it wasn't your fault. You were a wonderfull gift, but my little cousin is the opposite of the mycenaean king. He wants to do all the work and doesn't care for the pay. I didn't let him fight that time, so being presented with a reward for doing nothing got him upset. "
You got his point, but cassually threw in another idea.
" Maybe i was too old for his taste. "
The moment stimulated him to share some of his own load in reciprocity for your previous confession.
" My father died in the battlefield and i'm doomed to share his fate, but I don't want that for him. "
You awkwardly moved your head so it would rest on his chest and he started playing with your hair. No word from you flowed within the action, fearing any interruption would have make him aware of his fallen mask.
" Had you ever felt so sure about what you want for your life, completely convinced of how you want it to be like, then one day everything changes and shakes every certainty you had? "
It was most likely he didn't think his words carefully, because that was literally your story.
" Well, while my friend became a priestess, I knew I wanted to be a wife. I told her I was not going to let our different paths separate us, so i have been asisting as a bystander in every religious ceremony she has been in. As a noblewoman, i was allowed to, so I did. "
He had a close idea of were the tale was going, but didn't dare to sarcastically interrupt it.
" Polydamas was heartbroken when he found out Briseis had choosen priesthood, so i reached to comfort him. I must have been very good in that, because he started seeking my company. Since them we had been flirting for a while and i told myself that was my call. He is a fine trojan warrior and a seer, a man of excellent reputation and a personal friend of Prince Hector … So, i believed my life was taking its course I was following his game untill courtship would lead to marriage. That was the life I had planned, untill one day your men invaded my friend's temple. "
You stopped for an instant, before the callout would get too obvious.
" Tell me about yours. What kind of perspective changer event is ruining your plans? "
Achilles felt relieved of not sensing the enthusiasm of an enamored girl in your description of that trojan noble you were mentioning. If he would have found out you were in love with someone else waiting for you at the other side of the wall, he would have felt a heartbreak for the first time on his life and he had no idea of how he would have reacted to that. He couldn't care less about the trojan possibly wanting you for a wife, as long as he felt you weren't convinced of wanting him.
" I found some light for my obscure existence. " He vaguely admitted you. " I stopped fighting and realized there is so much I gave away for it, so much i will never have, and maybe what I got from a lifetime of warrior isn't worthy … I wasted my life following the orders of that fool of a king. "
Your fingers were tracing the patterns of his muscles as if you seeked to relax him out of those troubled thoughts.
" I believe it's never too late to start over, if that's what you want. " You adviced. " Take me as example: i came to terms with the fact that I will never be the wife of some honorable warrior. I will never make my family proud, to them I will be a memory too painfull or to shamefull to keep alive ... And if by chance I return to them, i will become a load for my father's home, because no trojan will want to marry me knowing I have been the slave of a greek. "
Hearing you express disenchantment was very unusual, and it was killing him. He couldn't stand your sadness, feeling sure that he would have done anything to end it.
" You would have been the best wife a warrior could aspire to get. "
That kind praise meant a lot to you, so you moved up just a bit in order to give him a chaste kiss on the cheek.
Achilles smirked, ready to tease you despite he felt the gesture was very proper of you.
" You call that a kiss? Had Polydamas never give you a real one ? "
His provocation surprised you, but you weren't alarmed about it.
" Most trojan noblemen flirt keeping some decorum. " You attempted to explain. " Despite what the Insidious imagery of the war suggests, Paris is an exception to the courtship conduct of a trojan man. "
The myrmidon glanced at your lips, then deep into your eyes.
" If you let me, I can show you a glimpse of what you have been missing. " He seductively offered. " I will gift you a nice memory you can use to fight the fears. Instead of thinking of your dead uncle, or the guilt you felt, you will think of me everytime you will hear the sky cracking."
Your most inmediate response was a nervous smile.
" Would you do that for me? "
His mouth was dangerously close to yours and you parted your lips to let him in without a thought. The taste was wonderfull and with every instant of your pleased reception, his passion increased. You were at his mercy, almost completely lost to the new sensations and he knew he could have done with you whatever he wanted, but he didn't.
The trail of kisses had reached your neck when Achilles rolled on top of you. He was trying to stretch the fabric of your clothes, fighting for access to more skin without having to undress you ríght away. At that moment he got to hate your replacement wearing given in captivity as much as you did. There were no decent women clothes in the camp, so you got what his men could find for a slave. He despised it, that thing didn't make your beauty justice like your dress did. You deserved better, you weren't just a slave. Not anymore, and he haven't feel like that with you in a good while.
He was in love with you, and he haven't dare to say the words. In your quest to find his heart, you had taken ownership of it without realizing how deep you were reaching. The emotional intimacy and your adictive sweetness had won him over.
For him, that was as new as the physical contact was for you. He was paying close attention to your every reaction, surprised that you let him get as far when he sneaked his hands underneath your clothes. His caresses followed the sides of your curves and your closed eyes got open wide out of surprise, but you were still smiling under him.
It was the loveliest vision and he got enraptured by it.
" You are so beautifull … " He whispered softly. " Such lovely girl. "
You easily melted to his praise.
" Really? "
The sound of your voice calmed some of his overtaking passion. He remembered of how trusting you were of his softer side, how firmly you believed he was a good man despite of his war crimes.
For as much strenght as it would take from him, he needed to control himself for you. It was too early to claim you completely.
" You are the light shinning before my darkness. "
Achilles gave you a peck on the forehead and retired his hands from your body to caress both of your cheeks. With one more deep kiss, he prepared to cradle you in his arms for the rest of the night.
It was the most thoughtfull proof of love he could have given to you, but he didn't stop there.
Days later some traders from Lemnos had arrived to ressuply the greek army of various articles, but they were loaded of other items they meant to sell somewhere else on the way back home. From them Achilles got you a beautifull dress worthy of a lady, that he made you wear on the first dinner he shared with his men since his wrath was unleashed. You considered that telling stories and singing songs was little price to pay for such magnificent gift, but the experience showed you something else.
He kept you by his side the whole time, as an honorable warrior would while showing off his beloved wife.
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dilutedh2so4 · 1 month
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Another day, another post longing for Paris/Helen/Menelaus 💔
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baejax-the-great · 1 year
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A Menelaus x Paris x Helen throuple really would have solved everything and saved everyone a lot of grief
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dootznbootz · 12 days
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About mythological ships:
What is your OTP? (favorite romantic/sexual relationship)
What is your BROTP? (favorite platonic relationship)
What is your NOTP? (the opposite of OTP)
You can say more than one in each category if you want
How fun! Thank you for the ask! :D
For OTPS:
OdyPen and MenHelen (Helen x Menelaus) are my ultimate faves. I genuinely love them so much. They plague my thoughts constantly. They go on double dates.
for other ships that I enjoy: DioSthe and Patrochilles (QPR or romantic, I enjoy them either way), Ares x Aphrodite, Ariadne x Dionysus, Apollo x Hyacinthus, EROS X PSYCHE. Ctimene x Eurylochus, Laertes x Anticlea, Periboea x Icarius, Tyndarius x Leda, Andromeda x Perseus, Hector x Andromache, Telemachus x Polycaste, many many more but I DO enjoy these ones a lot :3
For BROTPS:
Penelope and Helen, (they are technically related but you know) Odysseus and Menelaus (THEY ARE HOMIES), Helen and Hector, The Virgin Goddesses definitely have brunch together (aroace icons), Ganymede and Hebe (you know they have so much gossip). The Achaeans as a whole, I love comradery. Telemachus and Pesistratus too.
For NOTPS:
OdyDio (I don't think I've ever hated a ship so much before, sorry not sorry lol. If you bring up pederasty, I'll kill you.), Helen x Paris/Deiphobus, Odysseus x Circe/Calypso, Hephaestus x Aphrodite, Odysseus x Polites (My Odysseus is Penromantic/Pensexual and my Polites is an AroAllo mad lad lol. they are homies though), Penelope x the suitors, (...ew :/ ) Penelope x Circe (EWWWW), Telemachus x Antinous. Anything with the Tele-GONE-y
That's my thoughts on Mythology ships for the most part :3 Thank you for the ask, Dear Anon!
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babyrdie · 4 months
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Achilles stan are really hypocritical about Alexander now, did you see that?
No, I didn't see it.
I saw people mentioning something about Achilles and Paris, now there's this ask and I'm starting to wonder if the recent ask an anon sent me about Paris was a discreet way to test me (this one, where I explicitly say that I really don't care about Paris discourse). I honestly don't know where the hell this weekly Achilles vs Paris debate came from, so I'm really confused. It's a Tumblr debate and I just didn't see the original post? Is it an debate imported from another website? I don't know. But other than Apollo and Paris killing Achilles, I don't really see what relevant connection these characters have to each other. They also don't even have the same role or the same archetypes, which once again leaves me wondering why this comparison even exists in the first place.
But here we go: my opinion is that no one is a saint. In most of these X vs Y discussions, I'm simply going to consider both characters as not being people who would be considered good today. And it's the same case here.
Achilles killed Tenes despite being warned not to do so (he was warned by Thetis, so he certainly knew she was serious), sacked cities (including not all of them were Trojans), enslaved people (both men and women. Some were sold, others remained. Some were sexual slaves, like Briseis and Diomede), committed a murder inside a temple (Troilus), dishonored a body (Hector), practiced human sacrifice (Patroclus' funeral. And you can see from the narration that it's not a case of "ah, but human sacrifice was cultural and accepted") and stopped the winds just to demand Polyxena's sacrifice (I still wonder how the hell he stopped the wind). He isn't a saint.
Paris ignored Oenone's prophecies about the fall of Troy and abandoned her (she was his first wife. And unlike Cassandra, she wasn't cursed. He didn't listen because he didn't want to), stole Menelaus (I'm not even talking about Helen. He took Menelaus' treasure too. Honestly, at that point Paris knew he was bringing war to Troy and didn't care if he felt so comfortable that he even took the treasure), depending on the version kidnapped Helen, taken city (Sidon), killed a guy because he was jealous of him with Helen (Corythus. Who is his son, by the way) and he ignored the Trojans' requests and continued the war. He was a prince, so I guarantee you he had slaves too, and slaves are indeed mentioned in Trojan territory (e.g. Lycophron writes from the point of view of a slave watching over Cassandra). He isn't a saint.
Yeah, Achilles isn't just a cute guy in love and suffering for his boyfriend, but Paris is also not just a cute and harmless little thing. People paint Paris too much as harmless useless. So my honest opinion is that this discussion is a waste of time because neither of them is the pinnacle of morality. It's reminding me of the Achilles vs Odysseus debates, which were equally pointless because Odysseus, like Achilles and Paris, is also not an immaculate crystal. The Clytemnestra vs. Agamemnon debates were also another pointless thing because sometimes they even cited something they both did but only against one (e.g., Clytemnestra ridiculing Cassandra's status as a Trojan captive in "Agamemnon" and Agamemnon doing the same to Hesione via Teucer in "Ajax"). At this point, I think it would be interesting to read Greek mythology without trying to do morality rankings. I also already talked about this in this post.
So that's it, that's my opinion. I haven't ignored any asks I've received so far, but if I receive one more ask about fans and haters of characters and morality in Greek mythology I'll probably ignore it because I think my opinion is already pretty clear (It's even in my post about my blog). I also talked about this in the Hades Odysseus controversy.
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