#me if i was a gay dude in the 60s

[lizardlicks]

I love working in medicine. I especially love working in medicine as a queer person because I get to see the entire breadth of our community. It's not what you think it is.

Do you know how many older gay and trans people I meet on a daily basis? It's not all young, thin teens with dyed hair.

There's this one gay couple, in their 60s, always get their lab work done together, always leaning into each other and laughing about some private joke of the week. They lost a bunch of their friends in the 80s, and they always remark about how good our facility is to them. They smile when they talk to me like yeah, we made it, we're still kicking and screaming, and by god that's how we'll go out.

This butch lady with pure silver that works at a mechinc's shop down the street and always calls me sugar when I see her. Checked in a person the other day who looked like the blanded most non-descript typical middle age cis dude, but went by a femme name and had x/nonbinary gender tag and they/them pronuns.

Then there's the young trans kids that are tto scared to dress the way they want most of the time, still uncertain about using their name and pronouns in a medical setting until we do it for them withiout them asking, treat them as the gender they prefer, and you just can see the weight fall off them as their care giver team treats them as human and with such care and love. They're always smiling by the end even if they had to do something frightening and painful.

The 20 and 30 somethings that I see going out of their way to interact with me because I'm proudly, visibly queer at work, most especially for them because we all need to know that there is someone looking out for us when we're vulnerable. We exist as this vibrant, complex tapestry, so far outside of the way we get stereotyped and talked about online and in the media. My god we are everywhere, experiencing life in ways you will never know about. You are not alone. You were never alone.

[1shirt2shirtredshirtdeadshirt]

Sexism in TOS: Worst Offender, or Progressive in Retrospect in Comparison?

I see a lot of folks claim that TOS was the most sexist of the Star Trek shows by a landslide -- and while I agree that it definitely suffered from the sexism of the times, I also have other perspectives to share to give some food for thought.

I am of course not insinuating that TOS isn't sexist -- it is, but I have to ask folks to consider the breadth and depth of Berman's sexism in his run and ask yourself: Was Gene Roddenberry genuinely more sexist in his storytelling and delivery than Rick Berman?

I'm not telling you to feel one way or the other, but all I ask is that you hear me out and consider some perspectives and make your own balanced assessments. Nobody is obligated to share my opinion, but it means a lot just to have folks hear it and see their thoughts on the subject. So here is what I was originally responding to:

Someone's response to this photo:

"Devil's advocate. This was a part of the popular form of cardio during the production time of TNG. Yes, it was heavily sexualised by men, but so is literally every other way women work out. Men have been caught taking pictures of women while trying to do dead lifts, running on tracks and working on sled machines. They post them online to share too. The fact is, there is no way a woman can be shown working out without it going there. And yeah,t hat includes the combat forms of workout they do in Star Trek. Just look at how Dax dresses when she spars with Worf. Yes, they're dating, but still, same goes when 7 does and any other female.

Aerobics routines like this were made dirty and cringy. This was what women wore then by and large. This is how the workout was done. We make it cringy."

My response to them:

"I respect your take, but I disagree on a few fronts.

The miniskirt was chosen by the TOS female cast, not the male cast, specifically requested by Grace LW and affirmed by Nichelle and Majel who would go on to vehemently defend the miniskirt over the years as comfortable and embraced by them.

Grace said it was comfortable and seen as a symbol of female sexual empowerment during the 60s and thought it would be a progressive garment (and turns out that it was, as it was later adapted and worn by male crew as a skant on TNG) -- FYI those were designed by a gay man and Gene approved them.

This was also supposed to be Spock's TMP outfit:

Literally lingerie.

We saw both Uhura (who saves Kirk in from Marlena Mirror Mirror) and Yeoman Landon (the first to initiate combat with a classic Kirk-esque kick to help the Captain being attacked in The Apple) carry out their combat training in their Starfleet uniforms without ever being made to change into any ridiculous workout gear.

In fact, I'd argue Jim Kirk was sexualized even more than the ladies of the week on the show and I saw his naked body more than anyone else's on a fairly regular basis. He wore red yoga tights while topless in Charlie X while the women wore full length gymnastic suits that covered their entire body. If anything, it went out of its way to avoid sexualizing women practicing fitness in those scenes and instead focused on Kirk.

Gene confessed that he asked to have Shatner filmed in suggestive/provocative ways to "give something to the ladies", so he -- as he said -- liked to "film him walking away" or have him conveniently busting out of his shirts in just about every episode as it were, because Shatner apparently had great assets. LOL

Gene made an effort to at least sexualize both if he was going to sexualize one, and he carried that attitude forward in wanting the m/m and f/f scenes in the background on Risa for TNG. He also insisted that the men and women wear skimpy outfits on THAT TNG planet. You know the one. LOL I mean the dudes even had on less than the women:

Gene also gave permission to K/S shippers to have their conventions back in the 70s when he was asked for permission. Gene and Nimoy felt with all the skimpy outfits they had the ladies wear, why not let the ladies and gay men have their fun, too? It's how we ended up with moments like this:

Yes, those are two people dressed up as Kirk and Spock's penises doing interpretive dance. Gene didn't give two damns. LOL

In my eyes, that was a very progressive take on Gene's part for the 60s. It was actually PARAMOUNT STUDIOS who had the big problem with K/S stories and vehemently tried to shut them down. Gene literally hired slash authors on his payroll and even had several slash stories/writers published in his official Star Trek books (The New Voyages & The New Voyages II).

I feel I saw Uhura and women in TOS engaged in more physical combat/altercations defending themselves that Troi or Bev were shown holding their own.

In fact, Kirk used to get furious when someone would "dress up" his female crew members without their consent (Trelane episode, Shore Leave episode) because like his male crew members, he wanted them to be treated professionally and to also have his male crew act professionally.

Berman brought some of his own personal biases into Star Trek that in some ways regressed it. While TOS had blatant sexism and was called on it time and again, that show was made in the 60s -- a solid 21 years before TNG. We as a modern audience understood why some of it was cringe/sexist due to the time period -- look at any other media coming out in the 60s and Star Trek was miles ahead of what other shows were doing.

Compare that to Berman who was churning sexist stuff out when women like Starbuck and Scully were simultaneously on screen on other programs airing, and we had already had Sigourney Weaver and other strong women in Holywood playing respectful roles.

In my eyes, there was no need of the sexism seen in TNG but especially VOY and ENT. There was no excuse for it when other shows were writing women far better and a number of those weren't even set in the future like Trek was, making it age even faster due to having those dated perspectives frequently highlighted.

In the Center Seat documentary as well as "The Fifty Year Mission" book you will find cast members, writers and other studio alumni who attest to this. Some discussions from "The Fifty Year Mission":

"First, Berman was supposed to have been a real sleaze ball . . . According to Terry Farrel, he would go on constantly about how her breasts weren't big enough, how she should do something about it, and how his secretary was a good example to follow as she had huge breasts. She even had to have fittings to get larger bras, and that was all done at his behest.

Later Berman and Braga developed a name for Jeri Ryan's character prior Seven of Nine. They originally called the character "perineum" which if you look it up it is the area between the anus and the scrotum. Later they floated the name "6 of 9". I mean, what does it tell you about where these two were coming from in the development of this character if they had names like that put forward in all seriousness for her?"

Gene Roddenberry also had some of his own more progressive ideas for TNG cut or watered down by Berman. Roddenberry agreed TNG should have homosexual relationships and representation at a con in the 80s and insisted on it in a meeting with his writers -- something Berman later would not honor. Gene wanted the AIDS episode, showing m/m and f/f in the Riza scenes -- these were some of Roddenberry's requests to include in TNG that Berman later stonewalled.

Berman's era was sadly dated by his own misogynist bias, IMO, to the point that it can somewhat hurt the shows he worked on through his cringe egoism and blatant disrespect toward his female cast.

There is a reason why Gene could keep female actresses working with him and Berman had a revolving door of women that he couldn't seem to keep working for him -- he was abhorrent to women, on and off set. Gene wasn't perfect at all, he had a lot of issues himself -- but Berman was a whole other level. Just look at what he did to poor Jolene Blalock, Marina Sirtis and his toxic commenting on her body weight which exacerbated her struggles with eating disorders, or how he treated and talked to Terry Farrell.

Anyway, just some food for thought. I'm not saying anyone is wrong regarding a take like that, but there are a variety of ways to look at this. Gene Roddenberry isn't a saint by any means, but it definitely bothers me how folks will tote the Berman era as if it were the lesser of two evils or the more progressive depiction of women when I felt there were far more concerning portrayals of women in his era with far less justification.

(P.S: I don't event want to go near the sheer amount of "creepy old dude/villain preys on innocent/naïve/scared young woman or little girl" stories there were in Berman's era, either. But that's a whole other can of worms I can write about in a part 2.)

[suck-mein-pokeballs]

Idk what it is about me but I exclusively attract people over 40

[gynandromorph]

the way people treat self-control and behavior suppression as a resource they can constantly demand from anyone and anything is surreal to me tbh. people will really expect someone to just not resist the urge to eat Junk Food forever. literally their entire lifespan. they will expect people to suppress being gay for their literal entire lifespan. just 60 years straight of 100% never-miss behavior suppression. they expect cats to always suppress the urge to scratch furniture and dogs to always suppress the urge to chew on things, forever. their entire lives. like Free Won't is just some fucking infinite well of virtue that works by magic instead of physically finite resources in the brain. it's like as rational as asking someone to simply bleed forever. like. dude. there is only so much blood in someone's body. i just think it's especially obvious in their expectations of animals.

[nyaagolor]

How do you rank the prosecutors on order of homophobia

forgot about this in my drafts for literally months oops. Anyway. Finished now!!!!

So I made this post a while ago that has some of the prosecutors and antagonists, but if you want a ranking of EVERY prosecutor (not including DGS bc i haven't finished yet) huzzah!!

Simon Blackquill: Not actually homophobic but he gets points docked for siccing Taka (known homophobe) at Klavier (known bisexual) for stealing his pretzels from the office pantry that one time. 3/10

Blaise Debeste: I think he's gay but he made me look at that ugly ass beard for far too long and I consider that disrespectful. out of principle? 8/10

Sebastian Debeste: Just look at him. 0/10

Miles Edgeworth: Bratworth was simultaneously gay, homophobic, and a misogynist, and eventually develops into a man who is only like 1.5 of those things. he's getting better. 5/10

Byrne Faraday: I don't really think he cares much about gay people he's busy being a single father and stealing shit. For the apathy? 2/10

Klavier Gavin: He's extremely gay and does a lot of work for the gay community but making Ema Skye deal with him is explicitly lesbophobic so 4/10

Godot: He has a lovely wife but whatever he was doing with Ron DeLite was probably not osha-compliant. I don't know what that means for his sexuality or stance on gay people and neither does he. ?/10

Ga'ran: I think she has a lot of other problems she should deal with first but considered she's bigoted to defense attorneys I don't think her being homophobic would be that out of pocket. Not sure I want to find out. 7/10

Neil Marshall: Have you ever been a gay bar? This guy would do NUMBERS. Also, real cowboys support gay rights. 0/10

Gaspen Payne: Being homophobic is actually why he got fired by the prosecutor's office and Winston is really fucking embarrassed about it. 10/10

Winston Payne: You'd think he'd be homophobic but you can't work for the Japanifornia Prosecutor's Office and hate gay people or you would actually go insane. He's like that one suburban guy who uses terms from the 60s but has the spirit. However, his ally lapel pin is really ugly so 3/10

Jaques Portman: He was calling Edgeworth slurs even before realizing he was gay. 9/10

Lana Skye: Dated Mia in college but refused to explain that to Ema because she has a lot of internalized homophobia and other weird issues of self. Repressed yuri personified. 1/10

Nahyuta Sahdmadhi: He supports gay people but gets all his talking points from the internet so even though he's supportive he's also incredibly fucking annoying about it and no one wants to invite him to brunch because of it. Stop using twitter for fact-checking you jackass. 2/10

Franziska Von Karma: Despite the fact that her lesbianism is so strong it borders on misandry, I think she has a lot of internalized homophobia so she spends the first 25 years of her life being a judgmental little shit. She'll get better dw about it. I believe she can bring that number down with time. 6/10

Manfred Von Karma: I think when he finds out Edgeworth is gay he starts going to gay bars and picking up dudes just to show Edgeworth he has way more rizz than him. Considering how people in my notes have told me on numerous occasions how much they want him carnally, I think he could actually pull it off. In that respect I think he's done a lot for the gay community. It ends up cancelling out somewhat because I think he'd be kind of an ass about it. 4/10

[baiwu-jinji]

TGCF author's notes translation

@/camilikha on twitter kindly provided links to TGCF author's notes and I translated the ones I find informative and interesting. See translations below:

chapter 58 notes: The second book is all about the overconfident Xie Lian with delusions of grandeur and the tender little flower (mxtx means kid Hua Cheng) and their diaries of the downfall of Xianle. Word count is undecided, I'm never accurate at estimating word counts anyway. It's just like the xianxia I write doesn't fit into your regular xianxia, the royalty I write doesn't fit into your regular fictional depictions of royalty - just the outlandish made-up worlds and social customs in the author's imagination...

chapter 60 notes: If we put Qi Rong in a modern context, we could say that he has bipolar disorder.

chapter 72 notes: about the chapter title "To Meet You in the Mortal Realm; to Find Flowers Beneath the Rain" - eventually I feel that "To Meet You" is more romantic than "To Meet Someone". Just think about it, "meeting you" is one of the most romantic things in the world.

chapte 80 notes: Of course (HC) won't give (XL) a handjob or help him [...], but Huahua's sexual awakening starts with this incident... (XL is seriously obssessed with martial arts combat!)

chapter 88 notes: Xie Lian never gets tanned, I envy him... I finally reached this place - in a dilapidated temple, a god about to be forgotten and a believer who's still young - this is the first mental image I have about this story, which drove me to wrote the story. I'm the kind of person who'd make up a whole book just to get to write a certain passage...

chapter 119 notes: Actually Huahua is just being naughty and wants to joke around playing dead, who'd have thought...

chapter 123 notes: So Black Water made his appearance long ago, he's been hanging around before your eyes all along. Wind Master never knew the real Mingyi, it's always been the same person before him - and before you readers. (Black Water) officially recognized as Best Actor of this story! I've been holding it a secret for so long and so has he, now I can finally let it out.

chapter 141 notes: If you heat up Huahua in the kiln, he'll grow bigger~

chapter 175 notes: "Hua Cheng! Your diary! We've read it all!!!"

chapter 229 notes: Huahua low-key sucking up to the elderly to make a good impression

chapter 242 notes: Why do you like to spook yourselves? - why on earth would there be such plots as (XL) waiting for another 800 years - too long, impossible! Happy ending is around the corner!

SVSSS is my first work so it has some exceptions that I won't discuss here, but MDZS and TGCF both only have one main couple. I said this repeatedly in the author's notes when MDZS was being serialized and in other places. As for Mo Xuanyu, he is a little gay dude but he died at the beginning of the story so he doesn't count as a serious character...It's fine to have headcanons you like as long as you don't seperate the main couple. But for me personally, my taste leans towards having only one gay couple in the story, and I have no plans to write about another secondary couple. I'm stating this to avoid some unnecessary disputes.

XL is good at making pickled vegetables. Because pickled vegetables are needed with steamed bun and rice porridge, so XL became quite experienced after practicing for hundreds of years. Also you can just leave the pickled vegetable by itself most of the time and let it undergo chemical reaction. XL mostly fail because he get inventive.

XL and Mu Qing chose the same path of cultivation and are both Daoists. But Feng Xin never studied under a master at the Holy Royal Pavillion so he's not a Daoist and simply a plebeian martial god, so he doesn't need to observe the celibacy rules like XL and Mu Qing.

My passion for inventing new dishes (or rather weapons) cooked by Xie Lian is only slightly less than my passion for making Huahua change into new clothes

Huahua often turn into human forms, in which he has two eyes, so you guys can stop counting the number of his eyes.

In the setting of this story, if you want to be a god,you need to be a human hero first, which means you need to be the best of the best among humans. Only heaven officials who ascended are real heaven officials and belong in the Upper Court. How do you ascend? Firstly it depends on your personal ability, you have to be outstanding in some aspect (such as martial arts or literary talents) to enter the path of ascension. Secondly it depends on luck, if you're extremely lucky and a favourite of fate, and just picked up some rare secret guides (to ascension) or immortal pills by the roadside, that works too. Officials in the Middle Court are appointed, which means someone in the Heavenly Realm could promote you to that position. But Middle Court officials have the opportunity to become a bona fide Upper Court official too if they're capable enough.

Black Water indeed owes Hua Cheng a huge sum of money and is a very impoverished Calamity, seriously lowering the income standard of the Calamities (although there're only three of them). But his debt isn't completely due to eating too much. As for the money Black Water owes, it's an ancient debt - 40% is the cost of buying gifts for heaven officials of Upper Court and planting agents there (bribery!), 30% is maintenance fee for his territory and expenses on pet food, the rest 30% is food (for himself).

Talismans are probably the equivalent of the business cards (of heaven officials)... "Hello this is my consecrated talisman" = "hello this is my business card"

You can't get rid of ghostly essence (which XL is tainted with because he spends too much time with HC) simply by brushing your teeth with plain water...you need to use consecrated spell water (which is super bitter and weird).

The weapon forged by a heaven official is called fabao (literally "dharma treasure"); if it's a weapon forged by mortal Daoists and monks, it's called faqi (literally "dharma tool") - only after their ascension can their weapons be called fabao.

In my imagination, Xianle ia the kind of small ancient kingdom that's overall culturally Han, but has peculiar customs...although I feel like what I wrote on Xianle is mostly just peculiar hahahaha [facepalm] [beat myself up]

Not only are the forms, customs, cultures, and politics of countries in this story made-up, the kind of arcane stuff like occult sciences and philosophical values are all made-up. Although I did research but the records I consulted are too difficult to understand, so I just made things up on my own. Please bear with me If you're knowledgable in this sort of thing hahaha.

Puqi refers to water chestnut.

Look up "Blood-Soaked Fire Social" (xue she huo) if you're interested, it exists in real life and is very thrilling. What I wrote is different from the traditional festival, there're some made-up elements to make it more exciting

[neroushalvaus]

Tumblr in the 60s – deleted posts

Some people requested a sequel to this post so I thought I'd post these drafts that didn't make it to the original. Maybe doing more at some point if the inspiration hits me but I hope these bring you some joy.

🚀 starrfleet Follow

HEY GUYS!! We're buying The Beatles so John and Paul can finally get together!! Who's in

🎹 nixonsafascist Follow

Call that... Beatles for Sale

🚀 starrfleet Follow

Dude this is serious. We want to free them. Why is homophobia so very funny to you?

🎶 mclennstarrison Follow

Didn't The Beatles start managing themselves after Mr Epstein died? So you plan to buy them... From themselves?

🚀 starrfleet Follow

Oh so the george harrison vampire mpreg blog is going to preach to us now.

92 notes

📻 lesbianbobdylan Follow

"Let men have short hair!!" "It's okay to not agree with the civil rights folk" "Don't let tumblr tell you that serving your country is bad" You are all so chronically online and convinced your little hippie bubble represents the world that you have the worst takes. Conservatism is alive and well, us hippies are the fucking minority. The outside world is perfectly okay with all the anti-mlk short-haired men who are happily getting drafted. You are not counterculture.

15,5 t. notes

☁️ ankin-vaimo Follow

Tumblr is so US/UK centric. Scrolling through this site you'd think there were no other tv shows than star trek and no other bands than the monkees and that the stonewall riots were the only meaningful political activism that has ever happened. There's so much great culture elsewhere. I bet you have never even heard of Tapani Kansa.

🇻🇳 shirellesofficial

#shhh don't tell Tumblr that other countries exist #they couldn't even admit Please Mr. Postman was originated by black women (tags via @marvelettesofficial)

peer reviewed tags

#sorry for going through your tumblr marvelettesofficial #you're just so funny #hope i'm not annoying you

54 notes

🌼 andpeoplesaywebeatlearound Follow

People really like to pretend us Beatles girlies hate Y*ko for being asian and a woman like she didn't literally make John cheat on his wife and leave his young son

🪕 prostitutesandlesbians Follow

don't talk like us beatles girlies are all the same, i personally want to fuck her on a canvas while we're both covered in menstrual blood, creating modern art by making love

✝️ jesusrevolution Follow

Op is this you? ↓

🎶 mclennstarrison Follow

Also like, "made John cheat on his wife and leave his young son", did John himself have nothing to do with that decision or..?

🪕 prostitutesandlesbians Follow

do you guys think she and john do mommy play

🎶 mclennstarrison Follow

I appreciate the input @prostitutesandlesbians but we're trying to call the op out for being a racist misogynist

🪕 prostitutesandlesbians Follow

sorry

346 notes

🤪 thekinkykinks Follow

Why is there even discourse about this... Yeah, the folks at Stonewall could have been more respectful towards the police officers who were just doing their jobs, but why are we acting like throwing some pennies at the police officers and calling them "Lily Law" is the worst type of oppression

🥿 trustnobutch Follow

You know what? No. Fuck you. I'm tired of you all talking about these people like they were your poor little meow meows. Have you read about this at all? The raid did not happen because the police "hates gay people wah wah". Stonewall Inn was run by the mob. The. Fucking. Mob. Would you rather have the police not protecting us from criminals, huh??? And the rioters were nothing but a bunch of attention seekers. I heard that a guy from the fucking Mattachine Society phoned newspapers and took pictures of the riot. I'm so disappointed, that was the only gay group that seemed to care about looking respectable in the eyes of the heterosexuals. People who were there made us all look bad and set our movement back like 50 years. Fuck you for supporting them.

🍊 kissmemissoklaholma Follow

Yeah. I heard someone threw a brick.

✌ draftdodgerdyke

??? Nobody threw bricks, where the fuck do you get your information ??

#they should have tho #chilling at the stockholm airport finding the weirdest takes

998 notes

🧸 teddyboyfemme Follow

i'm sharing a joint with this cute ass butch with the cutest curliest hair ever guyyyyssss I think i'm falling in love

🧸 teddyboyfemme Follow

she plays the harmonica for me i want to fuck her to the mattress

🧸 teddyboyfemme Follow

i don't have any idea what she's singing about but i think she likes the rolling stones too, we have so much in commonnnn

🧸 teddyboyfemme Follow

So it turns out that was Bob Dylan.

70,9 t. notes

[ichayalovesyou]

Why Do Old-School TV Duos Have SUCH MLM Vibes?!

I think there’s something very specific about the formula and writing style of non-serialized/semi-serialized shows from the 60s to 80s that featured two grown men going on wacky dangerous adventures that makes my gay little literary analysis brain go absolutely off the wall bonkers. I’m trying to figure out why!

I’m writing this on my Trek blog because I don’t think this pattern in people actually shipping these types of relationships the way they do if fandom as we know it wasn’t born via TOS in syndication. That being said! I also think it has to do with the way these shows are designed that makes myself and others OBSESSED with a specific character dynamic that feels (to me) damn near impossible to replicate in modern television. In a way that’s more than just fandom, it’s in the way TV like this was written at the time!

Further explanation under the cut!

🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈

I think what it usually boils down to is this. There’s a charming protagonist whom without the series could not operate, frequently top billed or the title character! (See: Wild Wild West, Starsky & Hutch) BUT he doesn’t have anyone to play off of! So what do they do pretty much every single time? Give Mr. Idealized Vision of Time-Period Masculinity For Genre a second guy to rhyme with!

See but the other guy has to play opposite but parallel to our hypermasculine protagonist. So what frequently ends up happening is that in order to play off our “normal” guy, even though he’s also a white dude, is that he’s still somehow Other.

They’re always perfect for each other, and they always get into scenarios that would be written, shot and interpreted by conventional audiences as romantic IF either one of those characters were a woman! Especially at the time these shows were made in.

If the one is aggressive, the other is gentle. If the protagonist is violent, his counterpart is intellectual. If the one is stoic, the other is emotional. Which (while one size def doesn’t fit all) usually makes the second guy come off as much more queer-coded (and sometimes other minorities like neurodivergent/disabled etc) than the other because of the traits associated with masculinity vs gayness at the time! Our prime examples in these gifs are Spock, Hutch, Artemus, and also *BJ!

*(M*A*S*H is a bit of a unique case since the show flirts with queerness more openly in ways that people more into the series have explained better than me but I think it still fits the formula I’m discussing.)

Here’s the thing though right? We’ve got two best friends, and the show NEVER really feels right if one of them is missing unless the focus of the story is how A & B operate without each other while trying to find the other one. They stick with and rescue each other unfailingly in scenarios that might destroy a regular friendship.

Hell, there’s often stuff that would emotionally/physically destroy a regular person/character in modern media. But because it’s not serialized they always seem to pull through seemingly through the power of friendship alone or dealing with it off-screen! Emotional consequences? Yuck! (Unless it’s M*A*S*H or Starsky & Hutch, like I said, not monolithic)

Here’s the thing that some people might say throws a wrench into the interpretation I’m discussing. What about the absolutely non-stop parade of conventionally attractive women the main protagonist (and less frequently the supporting man) goes through?

I would reply: how many of those female characters actually emotionally impact our protagonists as characters long term?

The answer is of course, because it’s NOT serialized, almost none! Kirk can watch Edith Keeler get killed by a car accident and still be making eyes at Spock the next episode. Hawkeye can have a “life changing” romance with a Vietnamese humanitarian woman, then share a blanket with BJ next episode like she never existed!

The Doylist explanation of course is not just the fact it wasn’t serialized but also just, constant, blatant 20th century sexism. Which SUCKS!!! As well as not wanting a long term love interest to throw off the character dynamic of our duderagonists. It’s the 20th century tv equivalent of bros before hoes.

However the Watsonian explanation always seems to result in no love interest EVER being more important than what the two protagonists have no matter whether you think they’re queer or not. No attractive woman could make our reputed babe-hound protagonist abandon his buddy. There’s no earnest romance our more queer-coded supporting man doesn’t end (or get ended for him) often for the protagonist’s sake.

Now some of these women are incredibly well written and straight up GOOD matches for our guys. So why wouldn’t they get involved in something long term UNLESS!! They were in love with each other the WHOLE time?

What if protagonist (frequently the babe hound) doesnt know he’s queer, or knows but doesn’t know he’s in love with his bestie, or any number of similar fruity explanations? The supporting man also runs into this explanation but people tend to believe he’s already aware that he’s queer but either also doesn’t know he’s in love or is keeping it to himself because time-period homophobia and/or thinking (probably not unreasonably) that babe hound is straight?

Between the inherent closeness of being narrative foils. The regularly scheduled life or death drama creating sometimes insanely romantic (in the narrative if not a literal sense) drama between the two. The revolving door of weekly women they never seem to get attached to enough to leave one another. The non-serialized nature resulting in sparse personal information/history about the protagonists as a result.

I think between the very NATURE of the way tv shows were written at the time. Plus the way fandom was shaped by a dynamic that has rippled through how media works and is interpreted by fans for decades upon decades. It’s not hard to imagine getting really emotionally invested in the possibility of the protagonists being in love is a fantastic way to enjoy the media!

In conclusion, it’s really fun and easy to go “these bitches gay! Good for them good for them!”

[your-name-is-jim]

My personal Star Trek TOS pet peeve is that I absolutely refuse to believe that some guy on a planet who built the "perfect woman" to make her his perfect wife forever was Leonardo Da Vinci. He was fucking not. There is literally zero evidence in history that Leonardo was ever attracted to women. He never married, never had mistresses, he lived his life surrounded by men. He was accused of sodomy once. Not definitive proof that he was gay, perhaps, but that's a better hint than randomly assuming he liked women!

Also, are they implying that the "Alexander" among Mr. Flint's other identities was Alexander the Great? Because OMG, don't get me started. Listen, maybe Alexander was (also) attracted to women, but his marriages were political. There's zero proof that he ever wished to have a deep emotional connection with a woman. On the contrary, his lifelong bond was with a man. And LOL, don't even get me started on the differences between Flint's reaction when the supposed love of his life Rayna dies, and Alexander the Great's reaction when Hephaestion died… THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. Let's just say that it'd be like comparing Kirk's reaction to Rayna's death to Kirk's reaction to Spock's death in The Wrath of Khan and The Search for Spock (and actually, even Kirk seems to take Rayna's death worse than Flint LOL).

I know, I know, it was the '60s. But it still bothers me so much to see two queer historical figures linked to that Flint dude. He was not them. He was not!

Okay, end of the rant.

(On the other hand, I guess I can believe he was Lazarus lol)

[an0thergl1tch]

Here are some sanderssides outfit headcanons because I’m gay :

Remus : Definetly had a pair of the Brendan Urie are you nasty booty shorts at some point in time. When alone this bitch either dresses like a emo slut, a toddler who decided to dress themselves for the day, a punk anarchist, or Adam Sandler, there is no in between. Janus has to convince him to put on pants when guests come over. “Who says I can’t wear converses with my dress.” Janus has to stop him from spontaneously cutting his hair or giving himself piercings so has a BUNCH of fake ones. Spends 10 minutes taking off all of his accessories. Puts in funky contacts to be edgy. Never throws old clothes out and thinks it looks punk despite there being very obviously not intentional large holes in them. Either extremely over or under dressed, If there’s a dress code, it’s ignored. Constantly wearing platforms. Definitely has tried to give himself a scar on his face because he thought it would look kickass, he no longer has access to knives. Randomly does sfx makeup to freak people the fuck out.

Janus : So much vintage wear. Definetly has a pin striped suit somewhere in his closet, dosent wear it because Virgil calls him the cat from Tom n jerry. Definetly has tea parties in renissance era dresses. Probably has one of those dramatic 60s newly widowed housewife robes that he wears while lounging with a glass of wine. Probably wore one of those androgynous suit dresses to Thomas’s prom, Roman was pissed because he looked better than him. Extremely overdressed, would wear red to a funeral. So many fucking hats, need I say more. Beauty is pain, there is no functionality, he can’t walk in half his outfits. Wears a lot of layers but actually has the excuse of being cold blooded.

Virgil : Oh so many bracelets, who gave him access to so many bracelets. Spends a solid 2 hours teasing his hair and putting makeup on every morning (this bitch is a GOD at eyeliner.) So many layers, you do not need to be wearing 3 hoodies at once. Somehow always cold despite having enough clothes on to survive in the artic. “Oh fuck one of my bracelets fell off.” Acts like he despises pink despite wearing neon pink raccoon tails during his college scene phase. Extremely underdressed unless he has the energy to dress as a Victorian vampire. Definitely experiments with goth makeup and clothing.

Patton : Its giving youth pastor. Owns every color of polo shirt. Wears aviators to look ‘hip’ and ends up looking like goose from top gun. Definetly has a leather jacket somewhere in his closet that he only wore to college parties to look cool (the obligatory dad mid life crisis leather jacket, probably worn and probably has seen some shit.) Constantly wears a tool belt or a Fanny pack, lord get this man a backpack. Had horrendous emo phase, good lord MySpace traumatized him. Definitely has a jersey and varsity jacket but actually IS into sports. Needs to get outfit tips because he will wear a polo shirt and cargo pants to every occasion. So many dad hats.

Roman : wears jerseys and varsity jackets despite not being into sports at all. Loves makeup but goes horribly every time he tries to do it on himself. Has to be held down to do eyeliner or mascara because he will NOT stop moving and complaining about you poking his eyes out. Loves being overdressed however half his wardrobe is costume pieces he pretends are high end items. So many rings and necklaces. “Buy me Prada” *is wearing thrift store jeans* Takes hours getting ready, getting dressed takes 10 minutes but he has to get his mindfulness meditation for the day in before he leaves. Definitely has a purse collection.

Logan : This dude probably has so much vintage clothing and historical pieces but is absolutely terrified to wear any of it and wrinkle anything. Has a tie collection (extremely obvious) however half of them are funky ties Patton spotted while shopping and gave to him. Has hundreds of the same shirt but tons of blazers and vests to spice things up a bit. Definitely has a collection of very high end leather shoes that he takes care of dearly and gets heavily pissed off if someone steps on them. So many cheesy nerd pun t-shirts that he wears exclusively in his room because Patton would freak the fuck out. Is tired of people calling him Steve Urkel or a newsie when he puts on suspenders. Practicality over looks, however makes a few exceptions (This bitch would look amazing in a corset.) Can run in heels and Roman is extremely jealous and terrified. Can do makeup surpisingly well.

[your-unfriendlyghost]

So my buddy’s got a tuff Ford Mustang, and yet we always end up taking MY CAR.

I’m just glad it’s a 90s Mustang, so I can just be a normal amount of jealous. If it was a 60s Mustang I’d be foaming at the mouth I think

He’s a Soc frfr

nah I’m kidding he’s absolutely not. (Ironically, he kinda reminds me ofJohnny Cade personality-wise tbh) He’s also thinking of replacing the Mustang w/ a boring normal car because, as he says, “It’s sort of irresponsible for me, a high schooler, to own a Mustang, y’know?”

I do not know. If I had a MUSTANG I would absolutely NOT replace it with a STATION WAGON. But I’m the impulsive one in our dynamic i guess- we’re a whole lot like Cameron and Ferris Bueller lol

(also do you know how hard it is to impress girls when your car is covered in scratches, has mismatched side mirrors, and is extremely boring looking?? So hard. I mentioned this to him once and it went like:

me: hey c’mon we’ll impress so many girls with my face and your convertible- you gotta let us use it this time please

him: dude I’m gay

me: oh. right

So that was unsuccessful 😔)

[pumpkinsy0]

bi pony hcs!!!

bi pony truthers wya

•ill say he has more of a male lean but it doesnt come OFF as romantic, more like an admiration

•he did think he was gay at some point for a bit bc he would only have interest in dudes, but turns out, he does like girls, thing was he just didnt meet a girl he personally liked romantically enough at that time

•he did have moments of doubt about being gay tho, w some girls in school he would have tiny crushes on em but he thought that wasnt rlly enough???? to say that he LIKED like girls, he didnt wanna “jump the shark” so he just thought he was gay

•i will always bring up jfk being his first guy celebrity crush its so funny to me

•first girl crush we can say is marilyn monroe but first girl crush on someone like he knew personally, we can say cathy, y not

•if not cathy and u were feelin a lil frisky, it could b angela, y not, but it wasnt like a “WOW I WANNA DATE HER!!!!” thing like a “shes really pretty” and he thinks about her here n there and maybe blushes a bjt, but it never goes farther than that, its a small crush he doesnt rlly think about often anymore, he will NEVER admit it, especially to curly (for obvious reasons, hes takin that to the grave)

•the shirt pony was wearing was like a lavender shirt and lavender has constantly been used for lgbt resistance, and i feel like pony will always think about that a lot, like a “damn so i rlly did look kinda gay” thing, lmao

•curly would use queer both as an insult but also to describe himself and pony picked up doing the same, USING IT TO DESCRIBE HIMSELF, not using it as an insult😭😭

•pony doesnt feel romantic attraction the way that others do, ig u could say hes aromantic??? or something along the lines, but eh, thats up to u, ANYWAYS, it was curly who fell first, it takes a while for pony to develop feelings but w curly his emotions can just form when he sees u, love at first sight could happen w to him, POINT IS, ponys feelings for curly came WAYYYY later let that b known

•ok look,,, if we rlly wanna get into the 60s, i think pony thinking that hes gay scared him more than him finding out he was bi, bc he could “really hide that he was gay and didnt have to force himself into a marriage”

•the way he saw it was that if he was gay, he’d have to push himself into a straight relationship, but when he found out he was bi, he felt like he could actually find a girl and have a girl he has a genuine romantic connection w and have a “real marriage”, so that relieved him

•that all fell apart once he gets w curly tho LMAOOOO

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

Regarding queerbaiting: Sherlock is one of the more famous examples, and the tumblr drama surrounding it is an... interesting story that I think is worth knowing if you want to understand the queerbait allegations.

The show, made and set in the 2010s, liked to poke fun at John Watson for being a straight man shacking up with another single dude. The show's creators -- one of whom is a gay man himself -- were born in 60s, so I see these jokes as two guys who were adults during the height of AIDS and Thatcherism taking delight in the fact they're now living in a world where queerness is largely accepted and somewhat normalized. A straight guy being forced to constantly defend himself from nonchalant assumptions that the man he's living with is his gay lover is funny when he's not in any danger of being hate-crimed over it, right?

(I'm not a fan of the joke personally, but I get it.)

They really liked this stupid joke though, so they used it again and again and again, to the point that young fans started to become convinced it was hinting at something. I can't blame them: there was even a lesbian character who fell for Sherlock and explicitly compared herself to John as someone who wasn't into men and yet was just so spellbound by this one special detective boi.

It was pretty lesbophobic imo, which should have been a massive red flag as to how the showrunners really felt about queer characters...

...But where the show went from annoying to actively hostile was the mystery of how Sherlock survived his apparent death at the end of season 2. The showrunners swore up and down it was solvable... and then when the next season aired, the "solution" was "lol who cares how he did it, this is a ~*character driven story*~ and only stupid obsessed idiots would want to solve the mystery. 🤣🤣🤣"

Make no mistake, they singled out the mlm shippers specifically for mockery -- there's a group of Sherlock Holmes conspiracy theorists in the show who argue over a theory that Holmes and Moriarty staged the death together and then kissed about it. (The viewer is clearly meant to laugh at this.)

Some of the Johnlockers on tumblr refused to believe this was happening to them and doubled down and convinced themselves there was going to be an amazing Johnlock plot twist at the end of season 4. My understanding (which might be wrong, I wasn't in the fandom) is that this contingent was largely composed of naive queer teenagers who blindly trusted a handful of influential adults who insisted that the show was deep and clever and didn't hate its fans.

So I can definitely sympathize with the folks who fear Byler is just queerbait. This too is a mlm fandom made up of naive teenagers trusting the adults who swear that the secret gay plot twist is totally gonna happen this time, trust me bro it's not called Surface Things.

And, look. I think it's very sensible to be skeptical of random strangers on the internet who insist they have the answers, no matter how authoritative they might sound. Keep on doing that, folks. 👍

But I think that principle applies just as much to the "this is just like Sherlock" doomers as it does to the "anyone who thinks Byler won't happen has no media literacy" lot. Yes, it's always possible that the Duffers were queerbaiting us all along... but the way Sherlock and Stranger Things approach queerness truly is like night and day.

Huh, well, if what you say is accurate, then it sounds like the Holmes writers were just jerks overall. I can see the joke, as you explain it. I may not think it appropriate to make it a running gag, but it's good for a chuckle or two. If it was truly presented as a joke, then it would be on the fans for misinterpreting it, but I don't know enough about how it was presented to know how easy it would be for fans to make that conclusion.

To me, it only makes it more apparent that things on Stranger Things are "night and day," as you put it. Will's feelings, and Robin's, for that matter, are not treated as jokes. They're treated as dramatic, emotional parts of their individual arcs. In Will's case, his happiness is linked to his relationship with Mike, which is complicated by the fact that he doesn't think he'll get to have a romantic relationship with him, or at all really.

I prefer to think the Duffers are better than whoever was responsible for what you described. While it all remains to be seen, they deserve the benefit of the doubt, for now.

[cator99]

I love making phone calls I love sending emails and being overall pleasant to interact with I love looking for solutions and being eager to understand how the world around me operates and to ask people about the role they play in this beautiful world I love being able to tell that other people are excited for any reason at all to strut their shit in this way and I always take notes on how they do it. It's all so funny to me. I am doing this because I am an insane person. I am the best person for the job. I am like the inverse of Jude St Francis. Born in a wet cardboard box doomed fucked in the head and forced to make an accommodation with life BUT I think its cunty and will commit awesomely violent ritual seppuku when my life is at its absolute peak. But yeah I dont get anxiety anymore if I dont like something it I can just thank them for their time and then find a way to leave and literally do anything else no one really cares as long as you do it right and you know like you can just keep looking for better things you literally never know you might turn out to be really passionate about fish mongering and didnt even consider it and it's not always easy but if the alternative is unbearable then fuck it pack a bag and stick your thumb out on the highway and spend 2 hours chatting about life with a fat 60 year old semi truck driver with photos of his happy fatty family plastered over the entirety of his dashboard and who was concerned why some kid was wandering the highway without a jacket and is nothing but totally kind and appropriate towards you which you kind of didnt expect when you hit the road but then you get to the city and go to an orgy party at some xi/xirs apartment who you met while on a psychiatrist-approved leave to attend an LGBT youth summer camp during the tail end of your 4 month stay at a youth mental health/detention facility but you can't stay there because his 40 year old housemate just announced that he's moving to the states and suddenly wouldnt be contributing to next months rent and didn't want to say anything until the night before when his boxes were being actively moved out of the apartment in order to avoid any sort of confrontation and the resulting altercation is heart breaking this 40 year old workig professional gay dude just absolutely betrayed this screwed up teenaged lesbian with no hesitation but maybe the drug fuelled sex parties had something to do with it but im just there stoned watching some tv show about anthropomorphic fast food and xe really did care about me but this was not the time to be pulling some cutesy whimsical runaway shit so we said our goodbyes and xe gave me directions the youth emergency shelter. As far as I was concerned, I was living the dream. This was just the "hard" part. I broke the high score on the ancient tetris machine at the day-shelter and barely ate anything because they relied entirely on donations and for whatever reason nobody thought to donate anything gluten free. I slept in the girls quarters of the cold shelter we were taken to every night, driven in huge vans by the staff at the day shelter. The girls were primarily quiet and didnt want to talk or even look at anyone. Some of the native girls were chill to play board games or watch tv with though. The guys were real rough. Mostly drug addicts. Mostly violent. They were known for treating each other terribly. I was told I could "use whatever rooms or washrooms that align with your gender identity". I told them I'd rather use the room that made me less likely to have me end up raped or my pillow pissed on.

[theosconfessions]

flashback-

if youd like to read the stephens from the beginning you can over here :)

if youd like to read the stephens continued you can over here:)

@ohsosims

theo-okay wow. all of this just for a tiktok about a 60 year old man?

scarlett- retros in.

theo-retro? you know your dad would kill you if he heard you call anything involving him retro right? hes not old as fuck you know.

scarlett-it was more of a dig at you than him. hes young. youre not. just want to point that out for anyone watching. makes you look creepy so.

theo-nice of you.well it can make me feel creepy sometimes but we fit.

scarlett-sure do

theo- [eyes narrow]

scarlett- so do you want to introduce yourself or?

theo-sure. im theo kline. im old as hell as scarlett likes to point out. i was on two seasons of the bachelor. one in ancient times. one recent.

scarlett- right! so to anyone who hasnt watched the first one theo did was the one where he met my mom, marlee, and the woman hed have a long affair with.

theo- nice dig.

scarlett- thanks [smirks] and the one that actually worked out despite theo trying to trash it whenever he could. the second season is where he met my dad.dustin.

theo- that wasnt where i met dustin.

scarlett- what?

theo- i didnt meet dustin on the show. i met him at his bar. just like we always said. and then he came on the show.

scarlett- wait? were you guys dating before he even came on the show?

theo- no, not dating. i encouraged him to apply though.

scarlett- WAIT.

flashback

dustin-wait what. the bachelor?

theo- youve heard of it right?

dustin- of course i have. i even not so freely admittedly have seen your season. with your wife.

theo-ah, marlee. well theres a reason why im doing a second stint. didnt work out.

dustin-i have to say this is the weirdest way someones ever asked me out before. like i liked you but im not sure i want to go on one date with just you. i need to see like 30 other people at the same time.

theo- c'mon dude i didnt mean it that way. look i signed the contract before i even came into this place and seen you. if i didnt do that,dustin. trust me id do this the old fashioned way because thats what youre worthy of. its a tv show ,man.thats it. and id think youd like it. cool people. cool place. and if you decide youre not into it . or me. or any of it you can def tell me to fuck off .

dustin- i cant believe im telling you yes right now

theo- really?

---------------

theo- i encouraged him to sign up.

scarlett- but you never asked him out before that?

theo- i wasnt sure i wanted to settle down so no. dustins the kind you do settle down for.

scarlett- you were married to my mom at the same time but you werent sure you wanted to settle down?

theo- well you seen how that ended up right? the jami thing? me being gay. it wasnt meant to last. but we got you out of it . so that is one good thing.

[queer-reader-07]

op could you elaborate on the she/her muriel thing. because i totally get what you mean but i find it so hard to articulate why... its just like. mmmmm. canon they/them character. but you wont respect their prns. but then again i enjoy when people get genderwierd w the ineffable spouses. would you respect my prns if you cant even respect a fictional character. is that the same thing. idk.

hi anon! i'll try best to elaborate, but apologies in advance if it comes off a bit... intense?

to give some context to my words:

i am nonbinary

i am afab

my pronouns are they/them

most everyone with the exception of close friends and people on the internet misgender me with she/her pronouns because they perceive me as a woman.

i think the root of it for me is that muriel has no experience interacting with earth, let alone humans, before they're sent down to be Inspector Constable. and because they have no experience with humans, they most definitely have very little context for the human construct that is gender. muriel's pronouns are they/them because those are the default gender neutral pronouns in english. muriel (like the other angels and demons) is referred to with they/them pronouns because, for all intents and purposes, they don't have gender.

whereas aziraphale and crowley (and even gabriel to a certain extent) have interfaced with humanity enough to have developed some level of understanding regarding gender, and possibly even an understanding of what they want their gender to be/be perceived as.

additionally, crowley and aziraphale play with gender in a way that feels very intentional to me.

crowley has canonically, in the show, presented femme. meta writers far more skilled than me have examined how, during the crucifixion scene, crowley is very obviously dressed more like the women in the background than the men. and it's not just in the historical flashbacks that we see crowley's genderfuckery. his modern look is comprised of a combination of femme and masc pieces. he wears a woman's cut waistcoat and his "11 years ago" look features women's sunglasses. all while inhabiting a decidedly man-shaped body.

i'm also just going to remind the audience that crowley outright denies being "a lad" in season 2. he straight up told us he's not A Dude.

aziraphale's genderfuckery is definitely less obvious and some might say debatable. that being said, i would make the argument that aziraphale's tendency to dress and present in a way that results in him being almost universally perceived as not only A Gay Man, but an effeminate gay man at that, is a quintessential example of gender as performance. and i do believe that aziraphale is making a very conscious and deliberate choice to present as a gay man. for fuck's sake he calls himself THE Southern Pansy, he knows what he's doing.

also, i know it didn't actually happen, but we almost got both of them presenting femme in the 60s so like. there's that too.

so, to me, it's ok to fuck around with crowley and aziraphale's genders in fanfic and art and the like because they do so canonically. the book makes it very clear that they are "man-shaped" but not necessarily men, ie they have chosen bodies that are perceived as being A Gender but that doesn't mean they technically are.

whereas muriel does not. muriel doesn't have a concept of gender because they haven't been on earth or around humans long enough to develop one. they are only ever referred to with gender neutral language. so it just feels really gross to me when people choose to she/her them. because to me it feels like saying "well this body that appears woman-shaped to me must mean they are a woman" which is a sentiment i, unfortunately, know all too well.

muriel is a character that is canonically referred to with they/them pronouns, on a major TV show on a major streaming platform no less. so it really fucking sucks to see people disregard that because they "can't remember to they/them muriel" or because they "seem like they use she/her."

to put it bluntly, every single argument i've ever read in favor of she/her-ing muriel has boiled down to "i just can't be bothered to remember they use they/them" and if you can't use a fictional characters pronouns correctly then i have zero faith you can use a real person's pronouns correctly. all i hear when i read those arguments is "i can't be fucked to do the bare minimum of gendering trans people correctly."

and lastly, i know it's genderfuckery when people she/her aziraphale and crowley because they're "man shaped" in the book and played by male actors in the show. but i don't have much faith that it's genderfuckery when people she/her muriel because i can almost guarentee it happens for no other reason than the fact that Quelin Sepulveda is a woman.