#maybe even like a starclan cat joins them for each book

[thunderc1an]

messy concept feeding off of my last post of a horror + mystery spinoff warriors series

[justapigeonn]

DOTC REWRITE/AU

Ok so I know I said I'd never do an actual rewrite for DOTC but after some thinking I honestly couldn't help myself so here;s a megadump of some of the changes I'd make:

Turtle Tail and Bumble would escape the twoleg house together after she becomes pregnant and Tom shows his ugly side

2. Gray Wing actually realises he was the reason Turtle Tail left in the first place and apologises for being a twat

3. With Turtle tail's help, Bumble convinces the moor cats to let her stay, but she soon discovers that she's not cut out for their way of life so Turtle Tail takes her to River Ripple to live with him and his colony and she becomes a seasoned river dwelling cat. She ends up living a long, peaceful, happy life and she and Turtle tail visit each other regularly

4. Tom eventually shows up to demand Turtle Tail's kits. He ends up finding the hollow by actually scenting them out as opposed to Gray Wing doxing them out of sheer stupidity and attempts to sneak into camp and take them, but Turtle Tail intercepts him and kills him where he stands

5. This is a big one that may spark controversy but SkyClan does not exist and Clear Sky never gets to be leader. He proves time and time again even after the battle that he is not worthy of being one, let alone a FOUNDER by any stretch of the imagination. He continuously demonstrates irresponsibility, is unnecessarily controlling and cruel, even to the cats he's supposed to care about and only seems to get his shit together in the very last book, long after he should have 'learned his lesson'. He never changed and should never have been given the countless chances to redeem himself. Instead, after the battle he is stripped of his leadership role by StarClan and the other founders and the forest cats fall under Thunder's authority instead, who leaves the moor after the battle to be where he truly wants to be. Clear Sky is allowed to join his ranks but he does so with the utmost resentment and bitterness. When One Eye and Star Flower enter the scene, One Eye takes advantage of his hatred and convinces Clear Sky to spy on and betray Thunder's group with the promise of him joining his rogue group and earning a position of power by his side and Clear Sky accepts (you have full permission to interpret this as gay) while Star Flower grows close to Thunder as she does in canon, manipulating him from the side line. At some point along the line Clear Sky outs himself and Star Flower and he joins One Eye's group before having a change of heart while Star Flower has her own redemption and blah blah blah still working on it). Clear Sky realises that being a meanie head ain't it, turns against One Eye and his rogues and supports his son wholeheartedly etc. At some stage during the final battle Clear Sky is killed by one of One Eye's close supporters as a final sacrifice/attempt to redeem himself, though I'm not keen on giving him a particularly heroic death considering how angry Tom's canon death made me so I figured it would be funny of the other settlers were like 'ohh noooo, anyways' with a couple of solemn words as opposed to a whole grievingfest. As for my reasoning for omitting SkyClan completely, half of it is due to the fact that it's basically just defacto ThunderClan except for the fact that they can jump high and hunt in trees, which are easily things ThunderClan can adopt. Firestar's quest and the latter half of AVOS can just not happen which I'm sure not many people will complain about

6. Gray Wing is not a Clear Sky apologist loser and actually resents him for all the grief he has caused

7. Rather than his own big bad, Slash is rather one of One Eye's devoted followers. One ruthless manipulative rogue leader would have been quite enough to serve as the arc's main antagonist for the latter half of it's duration, with better writing they could've spread it out and and left a true impact. Considering have him kill Clear Sky in the heat of the final battle maybe as opposed to giving his slaughter to One Eye

8. Fern and and a few of the other various mistreated rogues still exist, but this time under One Eye's command. She still ends up working with Gray Wing and joining the moor cats along with some of her friends after betraying One Eye

9. Star Flower never becomes Clear Sky's third mate or is reduced to a stock sweet baby mama where her getting kidnapped, abused then giving birth in an inconvenient place is introduced as a form of conflict, but rather reconciles with Thunder and builds on the previous connection they had already established (which would be stronger in my au). He eventually forgives her and they bond over the fact that they have manic shitty bloodthirsty fathers plotting against them and team up to be their foil, eventually becoming mates at the end of the arc.

10. Slate and Violet Dawn do not exist. This isn't because I don't like them as characters but imo never existing in the first place is a far better fate than being last minute underdeveloped love interests for the male protagonists with no other function in the story whatsoever

11. Quiet Rain is not guilted into forgiving Clear Sky for the atrocities he committed on her deathbed by Shaded Moss (who had no business doing so considering the fact that he wasn't a victim of his and she was particularly angry at the fact that he has killed Rainswept Flower who seemingly didn't get a say in the matter)

This was super lengthy and I ended up adding way more than I expected but I do hope to expand on them in the future. There are other things I have issues with such as the way Gray Wing treats Jagged Peak in numerous scenes as well as the overall ableism of the arc but this is all for now :3

[t4twnyclaw]

i think i have many thoughts about a starless clan arc, and only ONE of them good. spoilers for the ENTIRE ARC below.

CONTEXT: ASC is the only arc that I actually followed from start to end, when I got into TBC and AVOS those arcs were already complete and I spoiled myself and had a general idea of the plot and characters of that arc. ASC is the first arc ever in the WC series that I followed from start to finish; and I finally understand when other WC fans mention forgotten character arcs/unfinished plot-lines and rushed endings because oh my god ASC had all of these issues.

first of all. the villain. Splashtail.

I'm not going to lie I really enjoyed him in STAR. He is no Hawkfrost or Brokenstar but his kit-stealing motivations in Star were actually really nice to see. If this side of him was explored earlier on , oe eluded to I wouldn't be as disappointed but the problem here is: that his character shift slipping into madness isn't as smooth as it could be, and I feel like this in the previous book as well, where he seemingly drops his 'nice guy' facade completely.

Tigerstar the First's spiral into evil and madness is done way better. He's depicted as a loyal abiet a bit ruthless warrior, and a respectful family man (He does genuinely care for his kids.) and then he spirals and ends up killing and threatening his clanmates in gruesome ways. (Leading dogs to Brindleface, just blindly killing Runningwind and Redtail, Gorsepaw. etc.)

But at the same time you can see why people follow him, and why SC was eager to elect him as leader. He actually shows leadership skills. He feeds SC, he's a *warrior*.

The way Splashtail's descent leaves ALOT to be desired. It sucks because I loved the Macbeth-like lens they try to spin with Curlfeather and Splashtail but it just ends up falling flat, to me. Splashtail is just some teenager with no charisma skills but he could've been written like Tigerstar 1.

Unfinished plots/Plotholes

While ranting and raving about Splashtail I remembered how in the earlier books, It seemed like He and Berryheart (and their supporters) had a plan together from the beginning. But then STAR comes around and Berryheart and Splashtail's plan seemed to just be...her joining him? merging SC and RC? It seemed like it was a bigger deal in the first few books but it just felt like it fell flat here. Was their plan to try and vote Tigerstar 2 out of his position?

Tree specifically is mentioned twice, having to mediate the SC invading RC situation and both times I'm pretty sure we don't get a follow-up. And he seemingly did a bad job because RC still is really really, hostile against SC. So...Maybe he shouldn't be a mediator if he can't even mediate...correctly?

Leaders can be 'voted' out yet RC doesn't do this with Splashtail when he threatens kittens and obviously doesn't have the best interest in mind anymore.

One of the first lines Nightheart has is about Leadership being fluid, and being a shared responsibility between a few cats. In STAR, RC does just this when Splashtail is killed, even having two representatives during a gathering. I don't understand why RC just tried to disband instead of trying this out...

In STAR Sparrowtail has a conversation about family vs clan duties to Tigerstar 2. as if Tigerstar 2 doesn't CONSTANTLY put his family above his clan.

In STAR Frostpaw acts like she's never heard or seen of Leopardstar but...isn't Leopardstar the first Starclan cat she ever sees.

When Nightheart returns to TC It's implied Finchlight knows what heartbreak feels like, in regards to romantic love. WHO DID SHE LIKE...

Things I liked

Frostpaw, that's it. Frostpaw's POV actually carried this entire ARC. Even in TBC Bristlefrost and Rootspring's POV's may have dragged a bit (especially Rootpsrings) But they still contributed to the plot and characters greatly. Here, Nightheart and Sunbeam POV's mostly involve just each other and their feelings for each other to the point I think, it's obsessive.

I liked the warrior code changes, and I liked seeing Berryheart try to get Tigerstar 2 demoted, even if it was disappointing to actually witness and see play out.

I REALLY loved the names Splashtail gave Mistpaw and Greypaw. and I really like the idea of leaders giving new names as a punishment-of sorts. It reminds me of the cruel names from the first ARC.

I loved the relationship between parents and how that effects Frostpaw and Sunbeam. I wish we actually had more content of Lightleap and her parents, maybe to see how that effects her but whatever...

final thoughts

Sunbeams relationship with Nightheart wasn't anything new I really wanted to see her interact more with Lightleap and her family. Just, overall having Sunbeam STAY in SC instead of *immediately* joining TC would've been better. We have had all these arcs in TC's POV and just having Sunbeam stay in SC would've been SO MUCH BETTER!!!!

Having her realize she loves SC's territory and wants her kits to experience what she experienced so in the 2 month timeskip she and Nightheart move to SC instead would've sufficed.

overall. maybe a 4/10. and that 4 is completely from Frostpaw.

[snowyfrostshadows]

Wind Spoilers under the cut

Well.

That was certainly a book.

The prologue was kinda funny with Splashtail deciding to reject the nine lives from Starclan and using Curlfeather's choice to receive them as one of his reasons to kill her making him one of the stupidest villains in the series.

They can do as they always have and give a leader their nine lives regardless of that cat's actual morality or actually do something interesting for once and refuse to enable an antagonist.

He gets ahold of all this power but one good hit or sickness and he's dead. Alright. Great planning skills there bud.

But then I realized that Splashtail's decision frees Starclan from having to make that choice.

This way they can stay the wise (yet somewhat powerless) spirit cats the clans can turn to for guidance.

Speaking of Starclan giving out lives, I hate how everyone knows Nightpelt's story despite it never actually being public knowledge. Hell I don't think Fireheart found out and he figured out everyone's secrets.

But no. Since readers know every single trivia bit and history of the clans, the cats get to as well which is so....boring.

It takes out some of the awe and way histories can be changed and retold to fit certain narratives or having characters actually do some digging and discovering things out for themselves.

I know this is primarily a series for children but Erins I am begging you, give your target audience some credit. Kids are smarter than most people give them credit for and actually you know. Enjoy a good mystery here and there.

Another thing that was frustrating to read was having cats ask permission to move the plot along or sit around in a circle discussing stuff and judging each other for it. I. Can kinda see what the Erins are trying to do; make things more of a group decision and have older characters/past povs part of the story but man. In actuality, it just makes things drag on and characters flatter.

I miss the days when cats could sneak out and move the plot on their own and show off their own initiative. With Nightheart and Sunbeam waiting around for permission it just. Makes them feel...... incompetent? Like they literally can't do anything with being told to?? And this makes their chapters a slight pain to go through because nothing really important happens in them or they're just there to observe Frostpaw 's plot and comment on it I guess.

On another tangent, I. have no idea what they're doing with this arc's villains.

The first few books set them up as cunning and clever cats whose strengths are in being subtle but now... they're kinda all over the place.

Curlfeather was the mastermind but apparently just. Did this all on a whim because her mate died and picked a random apprentice to share her plans with but couldn't bother keeping up a pretense of even pretend respect around him and just. Spoke down to him. Okay

Berryheart wasn't happy over the new rule allowing cats to swap clans and was willing to start up a evil book club and set up a sort of rebellion of sorts but then....they just...don't really follow through with that? She gets exiled, curses out the clans, and then....joins a clan she hated to the point of accepting a co-leader ship position from an unstable teenager openly stating his plans to attack her former clan and she's just okay with it because I guess she's just.......an unreasonable woman...

Alright.

And then there's Splashtail.

On one hand, I'm a lil disappointed on how far off the deep end he's gone but absolutely fascinated at the decline in his mental state.

He got his power.

He exiled Frostpaw.

Managed to convince nearly every cat around the lake she's the insane liar and then.

He just. Loses it.

Makes his clan fight each other with claws out, doesn't bother to allow the camp to be cleaned, kills his own deputy and appoints a cat who by all logic, would maybe be the first to kill him given the opportunity as deputy and he's portrayed as the biggest threat to the clans.

Him. One, singular cat that the leaders of the other clans know only has one life.

That any one of them could kill proving to Riverclan that Splashtail wasn't approved by Starclan and was actually lying about Frostpaw.

But no. We get yet another book with everyone sitting around talking about what should be done and why they can't and basically holding Tigerheart back by his tail to keep him from cutting this arc's runtime in half.

The poor man sees the problem, has a solution, wants to end problems before they impact literally everyone in yet another clan wide war but gets called the Real Villain for most the arc by everyone.

Frostpaw and Tigerheart are the real MVPs of this arc in terms of story and literally keeping me invested in this thing.

[brightblueflare]

The idea of an exiled Clan, that, no matter what its members do, slowly falls apart fascinates me.

The sheer potential for storytelling. The exploration of the characters' grief for the lost home, their fury at the other Clans' betrayal, the fear and desperation as the rats, floods, predators, hunger and sickness bring down their numbers one by one... Sky, the last member, completely alone, trying to keep the traditions and customs of the doomed SkyClan alive, but knowing his time's running out and that, when he dies, so will his Clan...

Then, all of a sudden, there's hope. Cats want to join the new SkyClan, his neighbors begin to be curious about his beliefs and traditions, there's now someone keeping him company. Skywatcher lived alone for most of his life, but now he has cats who love him or, at least, appreciate him. And, more symbolically, his name. For most of his life, his name was Sky, a reminder of what he never had, the last member of a forgotten Clan. But now, it's Skywatcher, rare as the -watcher suffix is, it's a Clan name, he has a Clan, SkyClan is alive.

Plus, the little detail that "Skywatcher" can mean looking at the sky, literally, or it can mean... watching over SkyClan, like a newly named warrior does on their vigil.

But, no matter how much I love SkyClan, I don't like Firestar's Quest.

The Firestar of this book is great. He's back to his shenanigans of defying StarClan to do the right thing and he even admits he misses his humans. I think the way he teaches Sparrowpelt and Cherrytail is a nice contrast to the way he teaches Cloudtail in Rising Storm. He's much more patient, and tries to give them good reasons for why they shouldn't do something (like bullying Sky, he gives them good examples of why Sky doesn't deserve their mockery).

But aside from that, this book is awful.

Firestar doesn't get over Spottedleaf, and Sandstorm has to resign herself to her husband still not being over his childhood crush on her fucking aunt (Redtail, Sandstorm's father, is littermates with Spottedleaf). The towncats don't have culture, the threat SkyClan faces is nothing anyone couldn't have solved (which actually can fall under the White Savior trope), Firestar learns nothing (I was partial to him realizing he can have a paw in both worlds, because there's no explanation to why he can't, so why can't that law be a method of control?), and the whole book stinks of colonialism.

There's nothing being replaced, like what the colonizers told themselves. They're bringing culture, instead of destroying the culture that already exists to replace it with their own.

Maybe I'm looking too much into things, but point is I don't like it.

(Details for the AU under the cut)

So, for the Blazing Sky AU, I'm gonna make a list of the things I want to change.

SkyClan isn't forgotten. The Forest Four remember and justify their exile, and the cats that live close to the gorge remember the "cats with cool names" that used to be their neighbors. This is important.

Rainfur, now Rainbloom to avoid conflict with the TC Rainfur from Goosefeather's Curse (and because we need more boys with flower/plant names), is named in honor of SkyClan and the cats from the gorge. His mother gave him a Clan name knowingly and on purpose. It's unknown wether she did it because she liked the names, or because someone important to her was a cat from the gorge. Either way, it's likely Rainbloom doesn't have SkyClan blood.

Echosong has SkyClan blood, but here she has training as a medic before she joins SkyClan. She's asked to join by someone, maybe Princess/Creekshine or Petalnose, instead of being guided there by dreams.

In general, many members of Modern SkyClan have Ancient SkyClan ancestry. Most, however, do not, or at least one that isn't known. This is something I want to make sure is clear. A Clan is a community, and the message is more powerful if not everyone has SkyClan blood, and instead came together to take care of each other, regardless of background, because that's what a community is for.

SkyClan diverges a lot from the Forest Four. Their ancestors followed a different, older version of the warrior code, and Modern SkyClan will add, remove and edit laws as they see fit.

Everything the members of the new Clan learn about Ancient SkyClan will be through Skywatcher, or a relative of theirs.

The cats have holidays and parties. There must be more to life than hunting and patrolling, or else there's no point in becoming part of a Clan.

The cats from town have different accents and some words differ a lot, but generally understand each other. However, the Clans have a different language due to their isolation.

Terms are changed. Seasons, cars, roads and the like are referred to by their human names, medicine cats are seers (and medics after the role splits in two in SkyClan). The Clans still use greenleaf, leafbare and the like, to point out the use of different languages.

The kitty xenophobia is called out, Daylight warriors are back, and Ancient SkyClan blood isn't necessary to join Modern SkyClan.

More varied familial relationships without neglecting friendships.

The cats outside the Clans have civilization and culture.

Queer cats, queer relationships and disabled characters my beloved.

The rats stay, I can't remove something so silly and funny and forgive myself for it, but they are getting significantly overhauled.

More or less, this is everything I'm changing about Firestar's Quest (aside from the obvious of Rusty/Firestar being younger and joining SkyClan instead of ThunderClan and Princess, Oliver and Smudge being there). I'll get into the details in another post.

I should probably explain the rats, instead of acting like everyone knows what's gonna happen...

[telepathicsnail]

For the dashboard osmosis game!! :DD

RWBY or Warrior cats? (Ye can chose either one!!)

Ok, here we go!

RWBY

Created by a company called roosterteeth. Why the rooster has teeth is unknown to me, but the concept is horrifying.

There are four girls. They are color coded: Red, White, Black, and Yellow.

The red one is named Ruby. I'm pretty sure she has this wild giant scythe looking thing that transforms. (This might be from another show; I don't know.)

The white one is named Weiss, I think. She has wings, possibly.

The black one is named Blake, maybe. She has cat ears. I do not know if they have a functional purpose.

I do not know the yellow one's name. She has purple eyes and lost an arm. I thought she had a very cool large fur-lined brown leather jacket but she does not. My brain made it up based on distorted memories of what her outfit actually looks like.

There is also a robot girl with ginger hair. She may be dead.

There are these very large doglike things. They are maybe called the grim or something. I think they are fighting them.

Characters keep dying. All of the time.

Warrior Cats

I read many of the original warrior cats books many years ago. I think I only got through the first three arcs. They were quite beloved. I remember the first arc the most, and my memory decreases as the arcs go on.

Rusty/Firepaw/Fireheart/Firestar is the protagonist of the first arc. He was a pet that travelled into the wild where there are four clans of feral cats. He joined Thunderclan. There was also Shadowclan, Riverclan, and Windclan. All the dead cats are in Starclan.

Firestar's best friend is Greystripe.

The leader of Thunderclan during Fireheart's time and his predecessor is a cat named Bluestar.

Fireheart's enemy is Tigerclaw/Tigerstar.

A wildly edgy cat named Scourge led a more urban ban of feral cats. He somehow attached dog claws to his own.

Scourge killed Tigerstar by taking all of his nine lives at once by disemboweling him. Even though most of the books are shockingly brutal for a series about cats approved for children, I remember this sequence being particular notable, with Tigerstar coming back to life every time only to bleed out again.

There are meetings of all the clans at full moons at somewhere to do with a tree.

There is a prey pile in the center of each camp - one time the one in Thunderclan was rotting and this was a very bad omen.

Medicine cats were consistently some of my favorite characters.

Near the end of my memories the cats travel to the mountains for reasons I can't remember. There was another group of cats living there. They told the forest cats to groom their kits in the wrong direction to warm them up when they were dying of the cold. There were some weird ancestral visons going on there with a pool of water.

Some of my favorite cats were: Firestar, Greystripe, Yellowfang, Leafpool, and Brightheart.

Now what I have learned through tumblr:

There is a cat named Jayfeather. He is blind and has visions. He has two siblings. They are the subject of a prophecy. They have powers. One of them drowned or died in a different way and they just kind of ... replaced him with another kit?

There are two cats I have completed the pickling of, and I read their wiki articles for research. One is Needletail. She got sentenced to death for rebellion, I think. This concept of cat executions inspires deep dread in me. The other is Flametail. He drowned. I think he is the drowned one mentioned in the previous bulletpoint.

This was quite fun, thank you! :D

[athetos]

Okay. A warrior cats strategy rpg a la fire emblem (or advance wars) would be so fun. I’m being serious.

At the beginning of the game, you pick one of the five clans to play as.

At the beginning, most of the battles are over border skirmishes or trespassing, maybe against some rogues, but as time goes on, a much stronger threat appears that will require cooperation.

Some clan leaders will align with you fairly easily, for example, if you pick thunderclan, skyclan will join forces with you by default (unless you severely fuck up interactions with them). In contrast, shadowclan won’t team up with thunderclan at all.

Even if a clan doesn’t side with you, you can still recruit individual warriors from them! You can do this by interacting with them at gatherings, selecting the right dialogue options, sparing them in battle, or doing sidequests. They’ll abandon their clans when they turn against you, and fight their own clanmates.

Very complicated relationship tree. To avoid the family line mishaps in the books, most of the cats will not be related to each other, because I do not want to have to handle all the cousins or second cousins you could unknowingly date.

Yes, cats will be able to have relationship tiers between each other and unlock backstories. Some cats will be able to take each other as mates, but won’t have kits. Yes, there will be same sex relationships!

Permadeath is on, unless it’s a very important character to the plot, in which case their death leads to a game over. Leaders have up to 9 lives, but I would presume that if they do die, their deaths are scripted.

Apprentices can’t fight alone, and are instead paired up with a warrior. They increase the warrior’s stats in battle. After enough exp is earned, they will be given their warrior name. If a warrior is killed, the apprentice will retreat. Apprentices cannot be killed.

There will be multiple classes to choose from, again like in fire emblem. In order to unlock some classes, you will need enough exp in other ones or specific stats. This is kind of hard because… they’re cats, they aren’t really magic users or use different weapons. So some ideas I have: warriors that specialize in using claws vs teeth; warriors who use stealth (such as climbing trees or hiding in shadows or long grass); warriors who can swim; warriors with a strong connection to Starclan who can possibly use elemental type damage; a thief parallel; medicine cats can either be traditional healers or their connection with starclan to heal from a distance like a white mage; cats who inflict poison damage; etc.

You can train warriors and apprentices between battles sort of like in fire emblem three houses

Escort / protect missions would revolve around making sure that elders, kits, and queens are safe

Terrain can impede your progress. For example only swimming cats can cross water, and only climbing cats and climb trees. Also, some cats, such as those from wind clan primarily, can move faster on grassy terrain.

Idk I’m just thinking about this!!!

[stargleam-star]

My predictions for A Starless Clan

Some of you may know I recently read River! It was a really good book and it had a lot of mystery to it, things that we'll no doubt see throughout the rest of the arc. Here's some stuff I think/hope will happen (warning, spoilers under the cut)

I think one of the biggest mysteries in River is the voice speaking to Frostpaw. Are they manevolent? A Starclan warrior? I think it's probably Moth Flight! The cat Frostpaw vaguely got to see was described as having green eyes. That certainly couldn't be Willowshine. It would make sense if it was Moth Flight instead, since she was the first medicine cat. I can't exactly put my finger onto why she'd talk to Frostpaw, but my theory is:

If the mysterious voice is Moth Flight, she is contacting Frostpaw as a way to make Riverclan's connection to Starclan stronger. That or she's manipulating Frostpaw for some reason. Maybe so cats don't go trying to change the medicine cat's code? Or perhaps so they will? Guess we'll find out

Why did Curlfeather warn Frostpaw to trust no cat? I believe it's probably because too many cats in Riverclan want power rn, so everyone is trying to keep each other from being chosen as the next leader, whether by leaving fake signs or eliminating the competition (Im p sure someone in Riverclan sent those dogs after Curlfeather). In the end this might lead to a Stone Teller situation, when Riverclan's medicine cat is also leader. This would mean Frostpaw would eventually rule Riverclan. I definitely don't think it will be Mothwing, because I don't see her living until the end of the arc, sadly.

Lightleap is going to turn evil. Like 100% it's not even a question. She's trying to make up for her cowardice, for not going into the Dark Forest. By ensuring that some day she will, so she can overcome her fear. And to do this, she's been risking cats' lives; Sunbeam's Blazefire's, her own, and Reedwhisker. Yes I think she killed Reedwhisker. Idk if it was on purpose or not though. It probably wasn't at first. She was probably trying to defend Shadowclan territory and then took it too far. But now I think she's going to join the traditionalists group and fall further into darkness and ambition. She might get convinced to kill Fringewhisker. Well she is a Tigerstar clone, she had to go thru something like this sooner or later. I for obe welcome our first evil female Tigerstar clone with open arms

Berryheart is definitely not evil. She's most likely going to take things too far, and probably try to deposed Tigerheartstar, but that's about it. She might also try to prove half clan relationships are a bad idea by making her son's relationship with Fringewhisker fail somehow. I don't see her going down an evil path tho, not without influence. Lightleap would certainly be the right influence for that though, hmmm...

Next to talk about: Nightheart and Sunbeam. They're definitely going to have a romance. I'm sorry, it's stupid but I can already see it happening. One way or another Nightheart's gonna get himself into a half clan relationship. And Sunbeam seems like a hopeless romantic. I won't be too mad if this occurs. But if it does I hope by the end it all falls apart and both of them realize they're not meant to be/should just be friends. If Nightheart doesn't end up with Sunbeam though I bet the Erins will try to shove him into the arms of a cat like Needleclaw or even Whistlepaw

Sunbeam might become deputy someday. Cloverfoot will probably end up getting killed off, and Sunbeam might be chosen to mentor one of Dovewing's new litter, which would make her eligible for the position. Plus she's very loyal, and a rule follower, so she'll probably be seen as a good choice for the role

Bramblestar. Where to begin with him? Something is obviously up with him again. Hes definitely not possesed tho. I think he's probably got ptsd. It'll most likely continue to get in the way of his ability to lead throughout the arc. Especially because most of Thunderclan is still afraid of him. My prediction for Bramblestar is that he might be the first leader to be deposed. Alternatively, I think he's going to step down from the position willingly. In fact that's what I think is most likely to happen. The Erins love this guy, there's no way they're going to let him be forcefully demoted. So, I think they'll have him want to step down. He'll most likely go back to being a loyal warrior, trying to prove to his clanmates that he's ok and that he's not bad. Or maybe he'll retire, although I highly doubt that

If Bramblestar isn't the first leader to get deposed with the new code set in place, then its 100% going to be Tigerheartstar. Or at least Shadowclan's traditionalists will try to have him deposed. In the end he'll probably end up keeping power, because the Erins seem to like him too much (they literally resurrected him just to make sure he could become leader ffs) and also I doubt they'll wanna make Cloverfoot/any Shadowclan she-cat leader (because the Erins are sexist, and there's never been a female Shadowclan leader in any main series book)

[disgruntleddemon]

warriors rewrite

so like i’ve said a million times i’m bitter about the writing and plot in warriors.

i might reread the new prophecy to refresh my memory but here’s the gist of my idea from what i remember of the books lol

so the big thing for the new prophecy is gonna be a code rewrite and the clans changing to permanent allies. if you’ve seen moonkiti’s video on the clans joining it would be something along those lines.

the new prophecy would be the perfect place to start. for the rewrite Brambleclaw, Tawnypelt, Feathertail, and Stormfur act as older siblings to squilf and Crowpaw. Feathertail is no longer Crow’s mate/crush. instead she’s a big support to him. she’d honestly act much the same as she did in the book ngl. 

Storm and feather as half clan cats already find the clan system to be a bit oppressive. i mean hell, they were almost killed for being half clan. Bramble and Tawny are similar in that regard as they’re close but separated.

for this rewrite Crow and squirrel end up together. that along with the groups mutual friendship is where the frustration with the clans begins. the group itself is much closer here, slowly forgetting borders n stuff.

feather’s death has an even greater impact. squirrel and Crow get together after that since they become big supports to each other. Storm is especially affected. he sees cats from other clans grieving for his clanmate too. it really strikes him that they’re honestly no different from each other.

 on the journey home he starts to talk to them about the clans becoming sort of permanent allies. after all that’s happened, they’re not that opposed to the idea. Storm is the big driving force for a lot of this. he feels it’s what his sister wanted. Crow, who was also very close to her, is the same. Crow gets a character arc a bit bigger than the others. he really has to unlearn clan prejudice.

 the lake journey only emphasizes the need to join together. this time other cats start to see that as well.once they get there, Squirrel and Crow have secret meetings almost off the bat. in fact, the original journey cats meet up as well. (separate to the squirrel and crow one.)ash still asks Squilf out and she still turns him down. she also still has a falling out with Bramble about Hawkfrost. she knows a little about how shitty he is from Leafpool.

Bramble ends up telling Hawk about the gangs’ ideas of the clans joining. i mean hell, he’s got three siblings in other clans. Bramble actually befriends Mothwing in this rewrite. i always found it ridiculous he only acknowledges his brother and not his sister.

Moth loves the idea. as a med cat the clan rules are a bit different so she was already more open to the idea.Hawk uses the multiclan idea as part of trying to convince Bramble to kill firestar. in the rewrite tho, Moth confesses about how shitty Hawk’s been to her and storm. Bramble pretty much cuts contact with him and Tigerstar. the firestar trap scene does still happen tho.

in this rewrite squilf ends up pregnant and asks Bramble to pretend to be the father. they’ve patched up their relationship by now and he agrees. squilf tells leaf about it first. Leaf knew about them being mates and had been jealous.

not of squirrel, but their relationship. i mean her main friend in the new prophecy started to drift away cause of a relationship too. she agrees to help Squirrel however she can tho. she connects more with Moth cause of her jealousy.

a lot comes together with the original journey cats, Leafpool, Mothwing and Graystripe. the big climax is them at a gathering trying to convince the clans to join together. Squilf reveals she’s having Crow’s kits there. Bramble and his siblings stand united. (hawk’s been killed by now)

Storm points out how they all had to work together with the badgers and that the clans do better working together then apart. 

Leafpool makes a big selling point. the clans are together in starclan, why can’t they do that now? how many half clan relationships reconnect there? starclan can’t find it THAT bad if it’s allowed there.

the cats mostly argue that the clans should stay individual, but together. allowing for halfclan relationships and working together through hardships.

the clans agree at the end of the arc.

Po3 is mostly buildup to the dark forest. the three are working through their odd relationship with their father. breezepaw doesn’t exist. the tensions with the clans joining are also high. cats like Dustpelt or Spiderleg don’t like it at all.

everyone’s a little snippy with each other. gatherings are still a thing to help maintain relationships. there’s always a lot of bickering here though.

Jay still becomes a warrior. he, Crow, and Squirrel talk to firestar about him being treated better and how they can help him out. Holly still becomes a med cat. she’s not great with herbs and she’s better at fighting but she wants to be higher in the clan. she says leaders are seen as highest but she belives med cats are more important. 

Leaf loves her to bits.

the fire scene also happens. Squirrel pushes Ash into the fire. she ends up permanently disabled cause of it tho. (in the book Ash had to help her move the log as she was still recovering from a major injury. i wanted to use that for the rewrite. pushing him in messes up the injury and messes her up real bad.) 

omen of the stars is mostly more darkforest buildup. the dark forest cats try to isolate the clans again and turn them against each other. a lot pf the plot is about the three trying to keep everyone together. hollyleaf is the third cat in this au.

might have Dove as the mysterious 4th cat or somthing. maybe i’ll have her move to shadowclan and Ivy feels bitter and like she was abandoned.

anyways, the clans really get tested in the battle. it’s much longer in the rewrite. i felt like the battle was too short in the original. Holly is still killed. Ivy kills Hawk.

Storm, Bramble, Leaf, Moth, Cinderheart, Mothwing, Willowshine, Tawny, Crow, Squirrel, Fire, Ivy, Jay, Lion, they all mourn her. cats actually have and retain friendships in this rewrite. for instance, Lion and Heather get to stay friends. 

everyone expects them to become mates but they never do. they’re just good friends.

anyways, i always thought Bramble was a dick in the books. maybe not abusive per se but he was just a jerk. he’s stern but kind in the rewrite. he had so much of his character be about not becoming Tigerstar n stuff. idk i feel like he should have stayed consistently nice. squirrel still becomes his deputy, not as a sign of forgiveness like the books, he just genuinly trusts her.

also we get Tawnystar cause that’s what she deserves.

that’s what i’ve go so far! sorry if u had to read all that lmao! this is just somthing i’ve had in the back of my head, feel free to suggest stuff for it as it’s not too complete.

[canon-notcanon-warriorcats]

Can I get a brief summary of SH? I've just heard so much bullshit about it but I also wanna know how it goes?

let’s see

-squirrelflight is feeling old and also wants more kits, she keeps bringing it up to bramblestar but he keeps shooting her down and being kind of an ass about it

-shadowclan is getting pissed because they “can’t use” the territory riverclan gave them because they “can’t hunt on marsh”

-thunderclan is hardly using the moor they got from windclan and everyone’s getting pissy

-tigerheart wants skyclan to move again, bramblestar says that they shouldn’t have to move again, squirrelflight suggests they move to the territory above shadowclan and thunderclan, they can go look at it and see if leafstar would like to move there and if she doesn’t she doesn’t have to

-bramblestar gets pissed that squirrelflight dared not agree with him in front of the other leaders, particularly tigerheartstar

-squirrelflight goes and takes leafstar to look at the territory anyway without telling bramblestar, where they find the sister, lead by a pregnant queen, moonlight, living in the territory but they’d only be staying there until her kits could leave, also this group of she-cats kick out their sons once they get to a certain age and the stars are right (they actually use a constellation, finally, constellations in these books about cats who worship the moon and stars), also they can see ghosts, just like tree

-the sisters keep leafstar and squirrelflight hostage because they don’t want the clans attacking them, for good reason, they treat them well and say that they can leave once moonlight has her kits and they can travel, squirrelflight says that thunderclan would never attack them, and then thunderclan and skyclan arrive to save them’

-the other clans find out about the sisters and tigerstar says that they should the queens out and have skyclan move, leafstar’s like “i haven’t even agreed to move there yet, i’m thinking about it”, tigerstar, mistystar, and harestar put pressure on her

-bramblestar gets so pissed at squirrelflight he doesn’t talk to her for a week, also sparkpelt’s pregnant with larksong’s kits, squirrelflight’s very happy for her daughter but is also jealous that she can’t have more kits too

-thunderclan and windclan share the moor that windclan gave them to ease the tension a little bit but this pisses riverclan off

-shadowclan went over to the sisters’ territory and then when the sisters go into shadowclan territory to see what the heck they were doing they get in a fight and one of the sisters, sunrise, claw’s strikestone’s ear off, it gets infected and he loses his hearing in that ear, sunrise also gets badly hurt and they go to thunderclan for help where half of thunderclan decides that they would rather this queen die than possibly have tigerstar find out they let this cat live

-bramblestar literally has jayfeather and alderheart go to the moonpool to ask starclan if they should treat the queen, hollyleaf tells them “i dunno” and leafpool treats sunrise anyway because what the fuck thunderclan and bramblestar, thornclaw and blossomfall decide they need to guard this dying cat because she might destroy thunderclan, they also force the other sisters to go home

-sunrise can finally go home and then the clans decide to use tree to get the sisters to leave and tigerstar says that if they don’t leave soon they will attack, harestar and mistystar agrees, bramblestar says maybe, leafstar says don’t you dare

-we learn that tree was one of the sisters and moonlight was his mother and his name used to be earth and he has a grudge against them because why the fuck would you make your son who isn’t even full grown leave, he doesn’t really try that hard and the sisters say that they will not leave

-also thunderclan apparently has some plant that doesn’t hurt prey but will kill cats and suddenly larksong just collapses and almost dies, everyone starts freaking out and blaming the sisters, squirrelflight goes to the sisters for help and they’re like “we were wondering why you keep that shit in your territory, but we know how to cure it” and so they help but oh no sparkpelt starts giving birth and one of her kits and larksong both die and about the same time because larksong wasn’t able to be cured in time

-squirrelflight goes back to the sisters and moonlight still hasn’t given birth yet, the sisters have a ceremony for larksong and his kit and they say that they saw them

-sparkpelt falls into a depression and won’t interact with her kits at all, squirrelflight tries to help but it doesn’t work, she decides she’ll treat these kits as her own

-shadowclan, windclan, and riverclan decided that they’re all going to attack this small band of queens, mind you they are all perfectly aware that their leader is heavily pregnant, and if they don’t leave in the next day, also thunderclan joins in because bramblestar isn’t actually a leader and just folds into peer pressure from his nephew and he just really cares about what tigerheart thinks for some fucking reason

-i forgot to mention after squirrelflight comes back to thunderclan, bramblestar makes her tell him every move she makes, including who’s going to go on what patrol

-squirrelflight has a dream that something bad is happening with moonlight and her kits and she goes to leafpool and asks her about it, they both go to the sisters and moonlight is having a very hard to kitting, leafpool is trying to help when now the clans (except for skyclan) are attacking, i’d like to remind you that this is a band of like maybe 10-12 cats being attacked by four entire clans

the sisters run into a cave or some sort of cavern to hide but tigerheart and bramblestar have their warriors continue to go after them squirrelflight yells “NO SHE JUST GAVE BIRTH TO HER KITS” and tigerheart’s like “what no one said anything about kits!” except they literally did, multiple times, you’ve KNOWN moonlight was pregnant and was going to have her kits soon

-the cave or whatever structure starts to fall in and leafpool and moonlight and her kits are still inside, squirrelflight goes in to save them, no one else goes in to help

-they get the three kits out, but then the roof caves in and leafpool and squirrelflight are in starclan

-they need to go on trial to see if they can stay if they actually die because obviously they’re so terrible, yellowfang, bluestar, moth flight, and littlecloud for some reason are on the trial

-they’re all assholes, especially moth flight and littlecloud for some reason and they’re also really hypocritical but then they decide they can stay if they day but they’re on thin fucking ice

-squirrelflight asks if it’s weird for hollyleaf that ashfur is in starclan and she’s like “no, he apologized” which is fucking bullshit since squirrelflight and leafpool barely got in apparently???

-squirrelflight gets to play with her dead kits, juniperkit and dandelionkit, who we find out are being taken care of by mousefur and longtail, we learn that starclan cats can’t get hurt in starclan, leafpool hangs out with cinderpelt a lot and is getting real homey, also she talks with larksong and flutterkit and larksong tells her to tell sparkpelt that him and flutterkit are happy and safe and that she needs to be their for her living kits and that he wants her to be happy

-squirrelflight desperately doesn’t want to die because her loved ones need her, so she jumps through a pool to try to come back, she’s a ghost, tree sees her, she hears bramblestar saying that he shouldn’t have been such an asshole, squirrelflight starts to fade back into her body and then passes out again after she realizes leafpool is dead and she’s back in starclan, leafpool admits that she WANTS to stay, the clan will be fine without her and so will squirrelflight, they were away from each other before and that just made them closer, leafpool and squirrelflight see a vision of lionblaze, jayfeather, alderheart, and sparkpelt sharing prey together and leafpool tells squirrelflight to take care of them as she fades away and squirrelflight wakes up again in her physical body and you can hear ever person reading this book cry

-also for some reason firestar and sandstorm REALLY wanted squirrelflight to stay with them

-squirrelflight tells sparkpelt that she spoke to larksong and he and flutterkit want her to be happy and love and take care of her living kits, sparkpelt doesn’t believe her until she realized that squirrelflight wouldn’t have known that her and larksong had planned to call one of the kits flutterkit, she starts to play with her kits

-squirrelflight goes to see how the sisters are and skyclan has moved into the territory, the sisters are staying with them, moonlight died in the cave in, but her kits are fine, violetshine is nursing them with her kits rootkit and needlekit, and they’re going to go past the lake and horseplace once the kits can travel, as per ghost moonlight’s instructions

-bramblestar doesn’t even apologize to squirrelflight and is instead like “you’ve always challenged me, let’s never fight again, let’s TALK first before we get mad” when it was HIM who REFUSED to talk to her or communicate at all and god he’s so fucking terrible

-squirrelflight decides that she doesn’t need more kits because the younger cats will have kits and those can be her kits because they’re a clan and they’ll take care of each other

[oliveheart-worldbuilding]

Aster, Bee Balm, Daffodil, Dahlia, Laurel, Petunia, Rose, and Violet? I'd also add Gardenia but it's impossible to escape murder cats.

Hi there! Thank you so much for the ask! Once again, I’m sorry for taking so long to answer!

Adding a read more because this one is pretty long.

Aster- Who’s your least favorite character? Why?

This one is a bit difficult for me, I read many of the books a long time ago and I’m sure if I were to read them again my opinion on a lot of characters would be very different. Going only by memory I would say that Bluestar is one of my least favorite characters but then I would have to add many female characters that I now feel were completely mistreated by the authors and whose entire arcs where thrown under the bus in the name of forbidden love or man pain. I never liked Silverstream, but nowadays I know that whom I actually hate is Graystripe. I used to not like Leafpool or Squirrelflight at all, now I don’t. What I’m trying to say is that my opinion changes constantly and a lot. I read the books a long time ago and did so with a completely different mindset (I was 16 when I read Omen of the Stars and oh man was I edgy and stupid back then), most of my opinions nowadays are based on the potential the characters have rather than the actual character. So bearing that in mind:

-Bluestar: I know, I know, a lot of you love her a lot but even after reading people’s opinions on her I just… eh I don’t like her at all. She feels incredibly detached in the first books. To me she always treated Firepaw rather coldly. I know a lot of people talk about Bluestar as if she had become Firepaw’s adoptive mother but I just don’t see it. Reading about her losing her faith was very interesting, so was her crumping mind health but, I just gotta draw the line on how terrible she was to Brightpaw. In this house we love and respect Brightpaw and Bluestar was just very nasty to her. I really didn’t like her novella at all either. Based on her relationship with Whitestorm in The Prophecies Begin I always thought that she might have played an important role in his life after Snowfur died but, it doesn’t seem that way at all? The only moment we see them interact is when she tells Whitekit, in a very distressing way may I add, that her mother is dead and never coming back. To me, she also comes in as selfish and power-hungry, she spends a huge part of the book complaining about Thistleclaw (bear in mind, back then he was only overly ambitious, not a pedophile) and his relationship with her sister, even though she herself is spending time with Oakheart, a tom from another clan. When Goosefeather tells her about the prophecy he never specifies that she must be the one becoming leader, only that Thistleclaw is not meant to become one and yet she goes out of her way to become the leader so much so that she’s willing to risk her kittens’ safety (killing one in the process) just so she can be available for the position. She could have just uuuuhmmmm told Sunstar about the prophecy? Also I’m pretty sure Sunstar assures her that Thistleclaw would not have made a good leader multiple times so… he could have chosen literally anyone else? Rosetail? Thrustpelt? Don’t get me started on the whole Tigerkit dilemma! She chooses to believe Goosefeather prophecies when they strengthen her own personal bias but when she’s told about Tigerkit’s she just goes “aw man Goosefeather sure is crazy hahaha anyway back on me becoming leader”. I don’t know, there’s more to it but this is getting pretty long. Personally she’s just not my favorite.

-Graystripe: He’s a terrible friend, he treats Fireheart like absolute garbage, he chooses a molly he has known for exactly 2 days over his best friend and his entire clan, he leaves Thunderclan to spend more time with his kittens just to abandon them 5 seconds later, and yet the son of a bitch was somehow always meant to become deputy to Firestar??? Just because they are friends??? Dude went against the warrior code, endangered his clan by refusing to fight Riverclan, was incredible close to causing an all-out war with Riverclan, abandoned his clan, refused to see what was wrong about his behavior just because he was in love… How in the f is he a good warrior??? Erins I want answers; this man is garbage. When he gets captured by the humans and comes back to the lake he gets so SO mad at Firestar for not “waiting for him”, my dude you were gone for seasons, you were deputy, you really expect the entire clan to stop working so that you can keep your friendship bracelet position? Everybody thought you were dead Graystripe!! Was everyone supposed to keep vigil forever?? He’s also a terrible father to both his litters, his reaction to being told that Feathertail’s dead is “aw man… she was so beautiful… like her mom…” that’s terribleeee. At some point in Omen of the Stars, after Briarlight broke her spine, Millie complains about Graystripe not helping her at all and then they start fighting about it, Graystripe’s only answer is something along the lines of “yeah whatever dude”. I hate him so much. I stopped reading after The Last Hope, so I can’t talk about the rest but, I’ve seen some parts of Graystripe’s Vows and let me tell I want this man gone for good. He’s lived for too long.

-Lionblaze: He’s the most flavorless character in the history of flavorless characters. What’s his arc? That’s right. He doesn’t have one. I literally have nothing to say about him. How is this character alive and in his way to become leader when Hollyleaf could have been in his place? Disgusting. Also, dreaming about killing your girlfriend and bathing in her blood? Bad. Not showing not even a bit of remorse about after waking up? Terrible. Badly hurting her mentor when you were trying harm her? Just straight up fucked up. He’s badly written, boring and kind of very misogynist at times.

I have many other opinions because I’m a very judgmental person but I’m gonna leave it at that because this is getting very long.

Bee Balm- What’s your favorite novella or super edition?

I’ve only read three! So Crockedstar’s promise I guess.

Daffodil- When did you first start reading the books?

In the summer of 6th grade, that’s when I was… 11-12 years old? I think? So in 2012-2013, I started reading them in Spanish but I read through them super-fast and the translations were super slow to come out so I just started reading the books in English. It actually helped my English level quite a bit! My first English book was The Forest of Secrets I think.

Dahlia- Has any death scene actually made you cry? What was it?

Snowfur’s (Reading about Whitekit screaming at her mother to wake up was super messed up), Yellowfang’s (I loved that old woman. I wish they hadn’t written about her in Starclan, she’s so out of character in later books) and Hollyleaf’s death (yes, first and second time, young me loved her to pieces. I still can’t believe they let her die a second time when Lionblaze’s flavorless ass was right there…).

Laurel- If you could write the books, what changes would you make?

I would contemplate the idea of just, moving forward in time? The warriors’ series feels very stagnant. Young characters die while having no personality at all and older characters from the first series are still alive and very much immortal at this point. We need new fresh blood.

I would just set up a completely new series: maybe the stories of Firestar and his family have been immortalized, maybe they are now revered as gods or something, I would create an actual religion system, one based in nature, the death and rebirth of all things and the need to remember those who have fallen. I would change their entire culture so that elders are more important; medicine cats are not regarded as useless (I’m looking at every character that forced in this position instead of choosing it themselves) and the warrior code actually makes sense.

The setting of this new series would be the lake territories but a long time has passed since the time of Firestar and things have changed a lot. A kittypet joins the clans and through their perspective we see how they work and act, what makes every single one of them different, their culture and laws, etc. It would be a nod to the first series while being completely new. It would also allow to add new characters from the start so they all have personalities and relationships with each other.

I would also contemplate creating one last series set up in the time of the original clans where everything just goes to hell. You guys remember rabies? I want that + Starclan going crazy. A full out massacre of old characters that ends in only a few surviving ones. I want blood, and I want it to be scary. If children can read about Tigerclaw’s horrible death, then they can read what in my opinion would be a zombie/ghost apocalypse. And then I would start anew with this completely new series set up in the future.

I mean, I would rewrite a looooooot of things, but that’s a talk for another day.

Petunia- Which arc is your favorite? Which is your last favorite?

My favorite is The Prophecies Begin when it comes to the plot and the Power of Three when it comes to characters. My least favorite is the New Prophecy.

Rose- Do you prefer traditional naming or creative naming?

Traditional all the way! I like when things have meaning and each name having its own really helps the feeling of there being a pre-established culture! Creative naming just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me in this context but that’s just my personal taste.

Violet- What do you think is the worst trope in the series?

Already answered!

Gardenia- Do you think you’ll ever leave the fandom?

Probs not, I’m in too deep, warriors is always at the back of my mind...

[doritopaw101]

Arc1, book 2: Chapter 4

Icebelly was one of the first to wake up and that was because Rosy, Joey and Jacky had pounced on their head and back.

"Kits get away" Mary called "Don't pounce on sleeping cats"

"But we do it to Barley and Violet and they don't get mad" Rosy whined

"That's different" Mary replied "They took us in and it takes a lot to get them riled up"

Icebelly chuckled "Listen to your mother kits, she means well"

"Want to see a fish pond?" Violet asked, her purple eyes gleamed

The kits bounded over with excitement "Yes yes" they chanted

"Kits are a blessing yet an earful" Icebelly muttered to himself

"Indeed" he heard Morningflower mew, rubbing against his side "I love them regardless"

Icebelly gazed at the three kits at their mother's belly, twitching silently in there sleep. A smile appeared on his face and a desire to protect them was nestling inside him. He could admit he longed for own young but he didn't know who he could ask to sire them.

He wanted to be a father and soon. As much as he tried not to let the words get to him, they did. If he had kits, the clan would see him as useful.

Most of the older toms already had mates or just weren't into toms, so that was out, Fuzzypelt maybe but he could see how that would be weird, he didn't really know if Nettlemist would, Fogtail very much would not, and Chestnutclaw...wouldn't be that bad honestly. He doubted the tom would care to be a father, he'd always cared about himself and no one else. He could raise them alone and he'd be fine with that.

'Okay' he thought to himself 'Plan set, just have to ask and if that fails there's always some cats in the city, Scourge could find someone for me probably, she would'

"Earth to Icebelly" Silverpaw called

Icebelly shook himself back to reality "Wha?"

"I'm asking if you can hunt with me?" the tabby asked

"Absolutely not" Barkface stated, padding over to freshen the bind on his leg "Icebelly needs to rest his leg if he wants it to heal right" he looked around "Do you have any cobwebs?"

"Plenty" Barley mewed "In the corners"

"Need any herbs?" Graypaw asked

Barkface listed off the supplies he needed, it was mostly herbs to dull the pain.

Silverpaw padded over with cobwebs around one paw.

Morningflower helped rest him on a bed of hay, she groomed his ears softly "How do you feel?"

"Honestly? Like I got hit by a monster" he replied dryly

Barkface set about straightening Icebelly's leg and wrapping it in cobwebs. "You're lucky, Icebelly," Barkface said. "This is the cleanest break I've ever seen"

Icebelly hummed in acknowledgement.

"I'll help hunt" Silverpaw mewed

"Make sure you catch at least three pieces" He heard Deadfoot call, the tabby nodded to the deputy as he padded on.

He looked around the clan of cats. Everyone was either still sleeping or waking up. They saw Mudclaw grooming Morningflower and whispering in her ear.

He hummed at the display, he hoped Mudclaw would at least be there for his kits.

////////////////////////////////////////////

"We can stay here til you recover" Silverstream mewed "It'll be fine"

"No" he protested "You have to take Windclan home, it's what Starclan wants"

"What do we tell Bluestar?" Graypaw asked

"Yes" Fogtail drawled "What do we tell the fearsome molly that is our leader?"

"Just say it was my idea and tell what happened to me, I'll deal with the rest just keep you traps shut til I get back"

"Lovely" Fogtail replied, annoyance dripped so heavily in his voice

The others and Windclan began to get ready to leave, making sure everyone was doing okay.

Duskstar, Juniperleaf, and Luna padded over.

"Thank you Icebelly for bringing us back, we thank you all so much"

Icebelly smiled "Just doing what was right"

Juniperleaf licked his ears

"Barkface says he'll be back to check on you" Luna mewed

"What about you and Jake?" He asked

"I'm joining Windclan permanently and so is Luna"

"Really?"

Luna shrugged "Might as well, Marble and Saw like it in Windclan"

////////////////////////////////////////////

It had been two days since his stay in the barn and he can say with the utmost certainty: he wants to be a dad and soon.

Jacky, Joey, and Rosy were joys to have. So eager and full of life. They'd make great clan cats but he knew they'd grow up to be amazing cats.

Barley went out to go get Barkface, he hoped his leg was healing well.

Silverstream and Silverpaw had been visiting him since, how they managed he didn't know. Silverstream offered to take him home when he was better and Icebelly accepted.

He hadn't expected however was for Ravenpaw to show up at the barn. The black tom nuzzled the life out of him.

"I missed you furball" he mewed "I was worried sick"

"Missed you too Raven" he replied "What's been happening since I left?"

"Frostbite's relationship with Lionheart is on the rocks and she's been raising her kits with Mossthorn for a while. I think they're mates now honestly."

Icebelly's eyes widen, he fought not to smile at that "Why?"

"Lionheart's been blaming you when Graypaw went missing so..."

Icebelly groaned "Of course, everything that happens has to be my fault" he lashed his tail "Fogtail said anything?

"Fogtail said it was your idea and that you'd explain when you came back and he told us about your injury"

"Worried?" he teased

Ravenpaw shoved him lightly "Of course I was mouse-brain"

"How'd you get that scar?" he saw the claw mark across Ravenpaw's shoulder.

"Shadowclan" Ravenpaw sighed "Got attacked on a patrol"

"Who was on the patrol?"

"Bluestar, Redtail, Leopardstorm, Cherrycloud, Dustpaw, Darkstripe, Smokypaw, and myself of course"

"How's everyone?"

"Everyone's okay, Dustpaw has a nasty bite mark though it would've been worse had I not pulled Mossclaw away from him."

"I'm guessing Dustpaw wasn't happy with the help"

Ravenpaw shook his head "He kinda made my wound worse"

"What!?" he nearly screeched but he didn't want to scare the kittens nearby

"It's fine, he didn't mean it"

Icebelly's gaze hardened "Ravenpaw, unlike you me and my littermates despite ourselves generally love each other in our own fucked way. I can see myself fighting for them and being there for them and that's why no matter what they'll always have my loyalty"

He looked into the black tom's purple and yellow eyes "I won't pretend to understand but from my view I can't really see why you put in the effort for a cat that clearly doesn't care for it, if this relationship between you and Dustpaw and even Chestnutclaw is too ever improve, they have to be the ones to make the effort not you"

Ravenpaw looked down "It...wasn't always like this, we weren't so bad off when we were kits"

"That was then Raven" Icebelly mewed "Cats change, better or worse. Tell me did you really want to wait to be a warrior? Did you want to be a warrior at all?"

Ravenpaw shook his head "I...I wanted to be a..s..seer, I had signs that I told Featherwhisker about but..."

"Wanted to please Robinwing?"

Ravenpaw nodded, tears at the corner of his eyes. He buried his head in Icebelly's chest fur "I...j..j..just..w..wa..wanted..."

"Shhhh" Icebelly soothed "It's not to late Raven, ask Yellowfang and she'll take you under, I'm sure of it"

"That I would" Icebelly and Ravenpaw lifted their heads to see the dark gray molly at the entrance, Barkface and Barley in tow.

"Great to see you again Yellowfang Barkface" Icebelly greeted warmly

"It's good to see you again, Icebelly," Barkface mewed when he set the herbs down. He immediately went to inspect Icebelly's leg. "It needs more cobwebs," he declared after a few minutes of sniffing.

"Will it ever heal?" Icebelly asked. 'Could I still be a warrior?' he thought

Everyone waited anxiously for Barkface's answer.

Barkface's whiskers twitched in amusement. "You'll heal from this. Maybe you'll have a limp, but I doubt it. When you get older, your leg will definitely give you pain. But you're a long way from an elder."

Icebelly let out a sigh of relief. "When can I go home?"

"Could go now if you want" Yellowfang replied gruffly

"Have you been walking around?" Barkface asked

"I've been watching three rowdy kits" Icebelly mewed "What kind of question is that?"

"Rate the pain from a thorn in the paw to an attack by a wolf" Barkface mewed

"I'd say a stinging rat bite that I just ignore"

"There's some physical therapy ahead for you" Yellowfang stated "And it seems me and Thymeroot will have Ravenpaw in the den"

"Thymepaw got her name!" Icebelly mewed in surprise

"Yep, she's more than earned it"

"You should stay here for a half-moon" Barkface mewed "We'll send-"

"I already have someone who'll take me home don't worry" Icebelly mewed "It'll be fine"

Yellowfang raised an eyebrow "You say so kit"

/

By the half-moon, the pain had mostly faded from his leg. Barkface had made it over for a once over and gave him an all clear.

The seers and medicine cats had passed by the barn on their way to the half-moon meeting and he had been 'attacked' by Beekit:

-Flashback-

"Beekit?"

"Hey big sister!" he mewed

Icebelly did his best to hide his annoyance "brother Beekit" he corrected gently, silently cursing Dewflare "What are you doing here?"

"I'm training to be seer since Blossompaw isn't allowed. Mollies can't do anything"

Icebelly's eyes widen "I'm sorry what?"

"Beepaw" Palecloud called "Where'd you..." he trailed off when he saw Icebelly.

They stood like that for a few moments, neither had really seen the other since the night of Icebelly's escape.

"Finally got an apprentice" Icebelly mewed breaking the silence

"Brokenstar insisted" Palecloud mewed lowly "Beepaw come one, I need to present you to Starclan"

-Flashback ends-

He padded away and gazed outside. It was past dawn. The gray clouds had begun to drift away. Tinged by the rosy glow of rising sun they looked like blossoms floating across a pond.

Barkface had come over to do a final check, bringing Deadfoot and Weaselwhisker with him. Silverstream and Silverpaw arrived as well along with Graypaw. Fogtail clearly wanted no part in this.

Barkface joined Icebelly and gazed up at the clouds, Silverstream sat near them. Icebelly slightly jumped when a curious yowl escaped from the brown tom's throat.

"What is it Barkface?" Icebelly asked "Has Starclan spoken to you?"

"An omen?" Silverstream added

Icebelly saw Silverpaw tense at the sight of Barkface's bristling fur.

"The clouds are stained with blood!" Barkface rasped, his eyes wide and glazed like he was dead. "It is a sign from our ancestors. There is trouble ahead. This day will bring an unnecessary death"

For a moment, no cat moved or spoke. Then Deadfoot growled "Any of the Clans could see those clouds. We can't be sure that the message is for us"

"Maybe is is and maybe it isn't" Icebelly heard Goosefeather mutter in his ear "Death will come"

Deadfoot spoke again "There may be hostile hunting parties around, Weaselwhisker and I will escort you to fourtrees"

"Are you sure Deadfoot?" Silverstream asked "I'm sure we'll be fine with me and Silverpaw around"

The black nodded.

"Thank you" Icebelly mewed

"Duskstar told me that if you ever feel unsafe in Thunderclan, Windclan will take you in"

Icebelly was shocked but nodded

Deadfoot padded away in the direction of fourtrees. They all stayed close together as they followed a narrow path through a solid mass of gorse that provided good shelter against the rain.

Suddenly Weaselwhisker stopped and sniffed the air. "Rabbit!" he called out joyfully before charging away into the gorse. Deadfoot stopped and waited. Icebelly could see a glint in the deputy's tired eyes. There was a rush of pawsteps on the distance and the rustle of gorse, then silence.

A moment later Weaselwhisker returned with large rabbit dangling from his jaws.

Weaselwhisker dropped the fresh-kill on the ground "Anyone hungry?"

Graypaw, Weaselwhisker, Silverstream, Deadfoot and Silverpaw ate the rabbit gratefully. Icebelly had their mind elsewhere.

"Is the shortcut through your territory alright?" they asked Silverstream

"As long as your with me and Silverpaw I think so, it's better than the long way" the tabby replied

"Let's just make it quick through" Deadfoot added

They all agreed and when the others were done eating they told them the plan. Deadfoot changed direction and led the cats along an old badger trail that took them away from the barren uplands. Soon they were in Riverclan territory. Even through the wind and the rain, Icebelly could hear the roaring of the river as it crashed and thundered somewhere up ahead.

Silverstream joined Deadfoot at the lead as they followed the trail toward the noise. The path shrank until it was little more than a narrow strip of grass on the very edge of a deep gorge. On one side the land stretched upward, steep and rocky; on the other it plunged straight down. Icebelly could see the far side of gorge only a few fox-lengths away. The space looked tantalizingly narrow, and Icebelly wondered if he could jump the gap. Perhaps if he weren't so tired and hungry...His paws prickled with fear at the thought of falling, but he couldn't resist peering over the side.

Beneath his paws, the ground dropped away in a sheer cliff. Ferns clung to tiny ledges, their leaves glistening, not from rain, but from the spray of swollen torrent that foamed at the bottom of the gorge.

He felt Silverstream pull him back slightly. He nodded in thanks to the tabby. They would have to follow this path until they could cut away from it, through the small strip of forest that stood between them and Thunderclan territory.

Icebelly stumbled as he hurried to catch up. Deadfoot's ears were prickled and his tail flattened so that it almost dragged along the ground. Weaselwhisker was clearly nervous too; he kept looking sharply up the slope beside them as if he could hear something. Icebelly could hear nothing but the roaring of the river. He glanced over his shoulder, his eyes darting from side to side. The Windclan cats' wariness was making him uneasy.

The steep slope began to flatten out until they could move farther away from the cliff edge. The rain was still driving into their faces, and the darkening sky told Icebelly that the sun was setting, but it would not be long now before they reached the forest. There would be more shelter there. The thought of food and dry nest cheered Icebelly.

But Icebelly caught the scent of a Riverclan patrol, Deadfoot's warning yowl told him he caught the scent too. A screech sounded from behind them, and the cats spun around to see six Riverclan warriors charging toward them. Icebelly's fur stood on end in horror. The deep gorge with its raging waters was still dangerously close.

"Stop" Silverpaw tried but a black tom only pulled him away as a ginger and white molly grabbed Silverstream. Leopardclaw, the leader of the patrol ignored them as well.

He recognized Otterstrike, who landed on top of him. Icebelly tried to toss him off but the heavyset tom's weight was crushing him. He felt teeth sink into his belly fur. He started to kick furiously with his back legs, nicking Otterstrike in the face. He scrabbled desperately on the sodden ground, trying to free himself. The Riverclan warrior raked his his side with his claws. Icebelly bit into Otterstrike's shoulder. He clamped his jaws tight and heard the warrior yowl, but the other tom's claws only raked him more fiercely. "This will be the last time you set foot in Riverclan territory kittypet" Otterstrike hissed.

Around him Icebelly was aware of his companions struggling fiercely. He knew they were as exhausted as he was from the long trek. He could hear Graypaw yowling violently. Weaselwhisker hissed with pain and rage. Then, from the forest behind them, another sound Icebelly's ears. It was loud,powerful and full of fury-yet it filled Icebelly with a surge of hope. Tiger-roar's signature war cry! Icebelly smelled the fast-approaching battle-scent of a Thunderclan patrol Tiger-roar, Willowpelt, Leopardstorm, Cherrycloud, Miststrike,Cranepaw Darkstripe,Smokypaw, and Embereyes.

Yowling and spitting, the Thunderclan cats leaped into the fray, Otterstrike released Icebelly, he realized Embereyes had smashed Otterstrike off him and pinned him down, slashing the Riverclan warrior's muzzle. He watched Tiger-roar pinned Reedtail to the ground, giving a warning bite to the tom's hind leg. The tom screeching away into the bushes.

He didn't like seeing a father figure of his in pain but now wasn't the time to dwell on it.

Tiger-roar whipped around and fixed his amber eyes on Leopardclaw. The Riverclan molly was wrestling with Deadfoot. Deadfoot met the fierce molly head on and they were evenly matched even with the black tom's lame paw.

"Help the others!" he heard Tiger-roar hiss to him as he rushed to help Deadfoot.

Icebelly rushed to find his clanmates in the chaos.

He saw Smokypaw fighting with Whiteclaw. If it weren't for the tom's size he could past for Scourge. He knocked the tom away with all his might by slashing at his face and pulled Smokypaw away.

"Thanks Icebelly"

He would have nodded if not for the fact what Whiteclaw seemed to skid away, towards the drop. He lunged forward and grabbed him by his scruff with his teeth. The tom squealed with rage but it was cut quickly as he dragged him away from the edge. The tom jumped to his paws, he stared at Icebelly "Why?"

"This fight is unjust and you don't need to die for it"

The tom seemed to consider this and nodded "You're right, I need to find Leopardclaw" He quickly dashed away to find the spotted molly.

Icebelly only hoped he found Leopardfur in time but right now he needed to help his clanmates.

He saw Embereyes struggle with Suneyes and Mudbelly. He reared up and struck his claws through the skin of Suneyes's back. He drove quickly under the Riverclan warrior, clawing through the warrior's belly as he did so. The warrior yowled and tried to strike is face but he blocked the blow and bit into the enemy warrior's muzzle. Suneyes seemed to have enough and flung him of and dashed away into the bushes.

"Thanks" Embereyes mewed, blood dripping from her cheek and ears, it also looked like she was limping.

Icebelly nodded and he was about to help her up when he heard a terrible howl, it made them both turn their heads, Graypaw was leaning perilously over the side of the gorge, her hind legs straining. Beside her, Icebelly glimpsed a black paw clutching at the edge. Graypaw leaned down with her mouth open, trying to get a grip on the paw, but it disappeared out of sight in a terrifying rush. Graypaw cried after it, her wail echoing along the gorge.

All the cats stopped fighting at the sound of Graypaw's agonized call. Icebelly froze, panting with shock and exhaustion, The Riverclan cats scrambled to the edge of the gorge. Slowly Icebelly followed them and looked over the side. Far below, through the deafening spray, he saw the dark head of a Riverclan warrior sink beneath the foaming water.

With a cold feeling of horror, Icebelly recalled the words of Barkface: "this day shall bring an unnecessary death"

Leopardclaw lifted her head and yowled into the wind "Splashsong! No!"

Graypaw scrambled backward until all four paws were on safe ground. Her wet fur was bristling and her eyes were wide with shock. "I tried to grab him...he just lost his footing...I didn't mean to..." The words tumbled out breathlessly. Icebelly bounded across to his friend and pressed his nose into his flank for comfort, but Graypaw backed blindly away.

One by one, the other cats turned away from the edge and looked Graypaw. The Riverclan cats' eyes narrowed with fury, their shoulders tense.

Willowpelt and Darkstripe moved instinctively toward Graypaw, taking up defensive positions on either side of her.

Leopardclaw growled deep in her throat, but it was a warning to her own cats. They were to stay back. "This has gone beyond a border fight" she murmured "We shall return to our clan. It has become a matter to settle at another time and in a different way"

"Why should it?" Silverpaw growled, he took a mock swipe at the large golden molly "You attacked out of no where Leopardclaw, me and Silverstream told you we were bringing Icebelly home, you caused this fight and Splashsong's death, you have no one to blame but yourself"

Leopardclaw turned her gaze to Silverpaw, glaring daggers at him but the apprentice held strong. The golden spotted molly looked ready to rip him apart.

"You can't say frog-dung because you know I'm right you bloodthirsty fish-brain" Silverpaw continued

"Silverpaw don't speak like that to an older warrior" Mudbelly called

"You know I'm right Mudbelly" Silverpaw hissed "You all know I'm right but I'm the only one brave enough to say it to this dry-pawed fox-" he was cut off when Leopardclaw pinned him down "Get off me you overgrown toad" he hissed

Leopardclaw roared "Someone otta teach you some respect"

Silverpaw screeched as Leopardclaw struck him across the face. The golden spotted molly got off of him, licking her paw.

"Silverpaw!" Icebelly saw Mallowtail and Frogleap rushed over.

"What is wrong with you?!" Mallowtail hissed

Leopardclaw hissed at the molly and flicked the tip of her tail, then turned and padded away. The Riverclan cats followed her, and the whole patrol disappeared into the bushes. Silverstream glanced back at him, eyes blazing with fury "I'll do something" before he padded after the patrol.

"We should leave" Deadfoot mewed, limping forward. "You warriors served us well, and my clan thanks you" But the formal words of gratitude sounded hollow after the tragedy they had just witnessed. Tiger-roar nodded, and the two warriors began to head back toward their territory. Icebelly mewed a quiet farewell to Weaselwhisker as he passed. Weaselwhisker glanced briefly at him, and walked on.

"Follow me" Tiger-roar called

The tabby warrior charged away through the trees, and the rest of his patrol followed after him, but Icebelly hesitated beside Graypaw. "Come on" they urged "We'll this out when we get back to camp" Graypaw shrugged, her eyes dull and clouded with pain, and began to pad after the others, dragging her paws as if they were made of stone.

Soon the cats ahead of them were out of sight, but Icebelly was able to track them by scent. Tiger-roar was leading them back toward Thunderclan territory, straight through Riverclan's stripe of forest. Icebelly knew there was no need to worry about Riverclan patrols right now. The damage been done. It would be pointless to take the long way around by Fourtrees.

Tiger-roar had halted the patrol and was waiting for Icebelly and Graypaw at the border of Thunderclan's territory.

"I thought I told you to follow me" the tabby growled

"Graypaw was-" Icebelly began

"The sooner Graypaw gets back to camp, the better" Tiger-roar interrupted "Riverclan might come back for a quick vengeance"

Graypaw said nothing, but Icebelly was annoyed. "Splashsong's death wasn't her fault. She's only an apprentice Tiger-roar, don't tell me you'll punish her like Leopardclaw did to Silverpaw"

"Of course not" Tiger-roar turned away "and I know" he mewed "But it's done Come on, this time keep up!" He leaped away, crossing the scent markers that bounded Thunderclan territory.

Willowpelt, Cranepaw, and surprisingly Darkstripe came over to Graypaw.

"We'll watch her" Willowpelt whispered

"We'll make sure she doesn't hurt herself" Darkstripe added with a smirk

Good thing to because Tiger-roar pulled him close by biting his ear. "You wanna explain to be what just happened?" he growled in his ear "I thought you would've came back to camp earlier"

"We didn't know a patrol would attack us" they replied "Bluestar's not going to be pleased"

"Oh really I didn't notice" Tiger-roar laughed harshly "Already dealing with another Shadowclan attack and now this!"

"What happened, the Shadowclan attack I mean?"

"Lionheart was leading a patrol and they got attacked when they were hunting at fourtrees, they're all alive if you were going to ask"

"I'm guessing someone's stuck in the medicine den" Icebelly mewed

"Birchstep and Bluestar has a large claw mark over her face from the previous fight"

Icebelly's eyes widen "Really?"

"Yep you'll see" the two-colored tabby replied

The rain eased as they followed the familiar trail to the camp. When the patrol emerged from the gorse tunnel, some of his clanmates bounded out of their dens, their tails held high on greeting.

"Did you find Windclan? Are they safe?" Mousefur called. Icebelly nodded absently, but felt too hollow to reply. Mousefur's tail dropped. The other cats hung back at the edge of the clearing. The expressions on the face of the returning cats told them that something serious had happened.

"You're back" it was Bluestar, she padded over to them and Icebelly saw what Tiger-roar meant. Bluestar bore a nick in her right ear, a lip scar and as said before the large claw mark over her left eye. "Did you find Windclan?"

"Yes, Bluestar" Icebelly replied quietly "They're safe in their camp. Duskstar told me to thank you"

"Good Good" Bluestar mewed, her blue eyes darkened as she noticed Tiger-roar's grim expression "What has happened?"

"Seems that Icebelly and Graypaw decided to return home through Riverclan territory"

They all looked down, the two-toned tabby was right. Their clanmates had backed off but they were all listening in.

"They were found by a Riverclan patrol. If my patrol hadn't heard their yelps in time, they wouldn't have made it home at all"

"Glad you rescued them" Bluestar mewed, but she hadn't relaxed "but I'm guessing something else happened by that look on your face Tiger"

Tiger-roar flicked his name at the nickname "Indeed, they were fighting beside the gorge. A Riverclan warrior who battling Graypaw fell over the edge" Icebelly noticed Graypaw flinch at Tiger-roar's words.

Bluestar's ear twitched "Dead?" she asked

"It was an accident! Graypaw of all cats would never kill a cat over a border fight" he mewed quickly

"I doubt Leopardclaw will see it that way" Bluestar mewed "Splashsong wasn't just any warrior to her, she was her brother"

"What were you thinking? Going through Riverclan's territory?" Tiger-roar growled

"Silverstream and Silverpaw agreed to it" Icebelly mewed "We all thought it would be fine with them around, they tried to stop it"

"Look how that turned out" Tiger-roar hissed

"They attacked when they're clanmates told to stop them?" Bluestar mewed "We may have some thing to fire back with" she circled them waving Tiger-roar off "We need to prepare for any attacks Riverclan tries to make. We need new warriors" she turned towards Frostbite and Mossthorn "Get Brackenkit, Lichenkit, Smokekit, and Cinderkit, it's time they become apprentices I've been putting it of for too long"

The two parents nodded. Bluestar padded and leaped onto the highrock. "All cats gather round, we have a ceremony long overdue"

Frostbite brought Brackenkit and Lichenkit forward freshly groomed, Smokekit and Cinderkit close behind.

"Cinderkit step forward" Bluestar mewed "Pronouns?"

Cinderkit stepped, holding her head high "Use they/them pronouns please" Icebelly heard many cats come out during their apprentice or warrior ceremony.

Bluestar nodded "Until they have earned their warrior name they shall be called Cinderpaw, Icebelly you are ready for you first apprentice, you have had Tiger-roar as a mentor, I expect you to pass on all your gained skills to this young apprentice"

Cinderpaw rushed over and touched noses with him. "I'm glad I got you, you're amazing" they purred making him chuckle.

"Brackenkit step forward"

Brackenkit did so with some coaxing from Frostbite.

"Until he has earned his warrior name he shall be called Brackenpaw, Cherrycloud you are also ready for your first apprentice, you were trained well by Nightshade and you have chosen to train as an over-seer, I expect you to pass on all you gained skills to this young apprentice"

Cherrycloud purred and padded up to Brackenpaw and touched noses with him.

"Smokepaw step forward" The dark gray molly padded forward, head high

"Chestnutclaw, you are ready for your first apprentice. You received great training from Cricketsong and I expect you to pass on all your skills to Smokepaw"

Icebelly watched the apprentice eagerly pad over to her less than pleased mentor.

"Lichenpaw step forward"

"Until she has earned her warrior name, she shall be known as Lichenpaw, Sandstorm you are ready for your first apprentice. You received great training from myself and I hope you pass on all your skills to Lichenpaw"

[kestrelblaze]

Cats I think Deserved Better

Basically the series is rife with cats that had interesting plot ideas/lines that got shafted by the Erin's and I've decided I wanted to list them more.

1. Leafpool

I had already made a post about her, but basically her entire character arc felt really squandered. She could have been used to show that the Code needed revision and some elements caused more harm then good, referencing former medicine cats that had kits as evidence along with the fact that having kits did not impact her ability at all.

They even could have used this to show Mothflight in Starclan realizing the code she made was inherently flawed and catered more to her than medicine cats as a whole.

2. Speckletail and Snowkit

If you don't remember them Speckletail was a queen during the first series and also the mother of the deaf Snowkit who was taken by a hawk during book 5: A Rising Storm and was used primarily as a plot device to show how far Bluestar had fallen.

A deaf character alone is wasted potential, but this gets really noticeable when you realize Speckletail had developed a way to to communicate with Snowkit (there being an implication that he wasn't completely deaf). If they kept dead Snowkit it would have been nice to see Speckletail come to terms with it instead of just being shoved off into the Elder's Den and forgotten.

3. Sootfur and Rainwhisker

Rainwhisker was my favorite side character for awhile, and being that they are implied to be the sons of Whitestorm, who was Firestar's first deputy, I felt they had a lot of wasted potential. We never had any scenes of them or their sister Sorreltail grieving over their parents, or talking about their POV of previous events and that always bothered me.

4. Stormfur and Brook

The Tribe as a whole is a missed opportunity to me, especially since its shown they arent that far from the clans and since their introduction they always have at least one book where the current PoV cat has to go deal with an issue. But to be more specific to these cats, I think Storm and Brook are more of a missed opportunity in terms of being Tribe cats that joined Thunderclan, mostly because Stormfur was originally a Riverclan cat and that after a few books with no use of them beyond being background characters they got sent back home.

It could have been an amazing way to bring attention back to Riverclan to have Stormfur go back and trying to reintegrate into his old clan, maybe him and Brook having to leave it for Thunderclan due to not fitting in to their particular clan again. The two in general had great ideas behind them, especially concerning Graystrip and Millie and they could have had some interesting interactions about Silverstream but....

5. Riverclan as a whole after TPB

As a whole, Riverclan heavily got the shaft after the cats moved territories. I blame this in part due to the borders shifting and Thunderclan sharing a border with Windclan and Shadowclan now but it is still glaringly obvious when you consider how much screen time they had in the beginning and how their part in the Alliances barely ever changes now.

6. Darktail, Onestar, and Sleekwhisker

Darktail was an amazing villain in aVoS, and he actually had an interesting backstory with Onestar that came.... out of absolutely nowhere. There was no hints to his existence and tbh it felt like an asspull (which it probably was tbh). Especially when you consider for him to exist he had to be born in the old territories, and the only logical time he could have been born without making him an elder would have been between book 6 and Firestar's Quest. Some more elaboration between him and Onestar would have been amazing, especially since Onestar really needed some development himself.

A way to do this in an amazing way would have been to make Heathertail a PoV character. She is heavily implied to be Onestar's daughter and thus Darktail's Half Sister and could have given us valuable insight into how Windclan was dealing with the Kin, giving us more hints to Darktail being Onestar's son, and fleshing out her romance with Breezepelt.

Add to this is his implied mate Sleekwhisker. Watching Darktail die, she could have easily been used to take up the mantle and become the overarching villain and leader of the Kin for the final 3 aVoS books instead of just... taking off. She would have made an excellent villain for how deranged she was and how the fandom already hated her, but instead she was a wasted potential. I am hoping in the theory that she took off because she was pregnant with Darktail's kits tho.

7. Hollyleaf

I know, dead horse here, but Hollyleaf in general was an amazing character and had so much potential. Her fanatical loyalty to the code could have been used in so many ways especially if she was given a power. A youtuber named Roseshard (I think) made the theory that her power should have been forcing cats around her to speak the truth when she questioned them and if you combine that with her fanatical loyalty to the code this could have made her a very compelling character.

If we kept it as is, her returning to the clan having matured in the caves was also a wasted opportunity, especially since she dies. I will admit this: Lionblaze should have died over Hollyleaf.

Now, I get what you are thinking: with Lionblaze's ability he couldnt, and Jayfeather is needed in his slot. From a narrative standpoint, it would have made a much better ending if Lionblaze put his ability to the real test and to save his clan took on the Dark Forest himself, a battle that would eventually end in his death but saving his clan (I'm not talking the whole of Dark Forest, just a big chunk of their warriors). Hollyleaf returning just to die did nothing for the narrative and after a full 5-6 books of Lionblaze and Jayfeather morning her it would have been better to keep her dead, or kill off someone else instead.

8. Twigbranch and Violetshine

Outside of Twigbranch having an amazing name and Violetshine basically being a teen mom and switching from Shadowclan to Skyclan (and them being Hawkwing's kits), can you tell me anything interesting they actually did in aVoS? I rest my case.

9. Ivypool and Dovewing

I know, both were POV cats but they felt so wasted.

I boil this down to having to share the spotlight with Lionblaze and Jayfeather tbh, especially in The Fourth Apprentice and Fading Echoes to the point we never got a feel of their characters. Both had really amazing qualities that were really easy to empathize with but the erins crudy writing in the series made it difficult to let them shine. Dovewing was a character who struggled to find her place in the world and focused on finding it through love, while hating her powers for making her different from her sister. Ivypool felt neglected and struggled to show she was just as capable as any other cat in the clan, getting only half the information to explain why her sister was more important.

To be honest, it would have been so much better if the books were rewritten so Dovewing was the sole narrator of The Fourth apprentice and Ivypook was the narrator of Fading Echos. Dovewing and Ivypool could switch in Sign of the Moon.

The fact the narration got split between them and Lionblaze and Jayfeather in each book really took a toll and left them underdeveloped.

10. Sandstorm

Sandstorm got a lot of screentime in the first series, but I will forever rage at the missed opportunity for Firestar to make her deputy. She showed all the qualities in the first series, and it's beyond obvious the only reason Brambleclaw was chosen was because of Protagonist Syndrome.

11. Goosefeather

Just Goosefeather.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Feel free to add more

[bonefall]

I see this a lot but I think this argument completely ignores the context of Crowfeather's naming (as well as the other 3 times she was pro-name changes)

Crowfeather requested his name to honor someone who died saving them on a holy pilgrimage. Crowfeather requested his name because of how much Feathertail meant to him, to ALL of the sundrown patrol.

That is the complete opposite of Nightheart furiously halting his naming ceremony (after taking his assessment 3 times) to rant about how much he hates being compared to Firestar, and then when asked, "ok what name do you want?" he huffs and tells them, "Idk I'll think about it and tell you later."

It's not even remotely comparable to Crowfeather asking Tallstar to give him a long overdue, well-earned warrior name in honor of Squirrelflight's dead friend.

And you didn't mention it, but Squilf has been pro-name changes three other times for Millie, Daisy, and Brook. They give their reasons in Dark River, so let's take a look at what Squirrelflight was supporting;

“You can rely on my loyalty until the day I join StarClan, and you must believe that I will live and die to protect ThunderClan. But I don’t want to change my name. I have always been Millie, and I see no shame in it.” -Millie

“I am no warrior, but I am a ThunderClan cat. I stay in the nursery rather than hunt and fight because that is what I do best. I care for our young as though each kit were my own. This is my gift to the Clan, but I do it in my own chosen name.” -Daisy

“She is right! My loyalty lies with ThunderClan, but I would never give up the name given to me by the Tribe.” -Brook Does that look anything at all like what Nightheart did and said? No! They were grown cats, contributing members of ThunderClan, who wanted to keep their old names out of love and pride, not spite!

Nightheart is defensive and rude, constantly blowing up at people around him for mentioning Firestar in his presence, ESPECIALLY his mother who reached out TWICE in River. He tosses himself headlong into danger and puts people at risk, and people come out as if Squirrelflight, resident assertive take-no-shit expert, should be passive and supportive because maybe he's being so mean because he's sad.

She has been VERY patient with him, actually! Between bringing him on the patrol to WindClan, suggesting special training sessions between him and Sparkpelt, and personally observing his assessments, she's gone above and beyond for him.

Nightheart, the POV, does not see it that way; but Squilf cannot know what's in his mind. Nightheart is notoriously horrible at communicating his needs, and unlike the reader, Squirrelflight does not have a magical book where she can go into his head and read all of his thoughts.

What Squirrelflight CAN see by the end of River is an aggressive young adult who puts himself in frightening amounts of danger for no good reason, who's been lashing out at his clanmates for mentioning his relative, and shoving away several attempts at people reaching out to him. It's not out of character at all for her to be frustrated by him rejecting her venerated father's name, causing a scene at a near-sacred ceremony, and hurting Sparkpelt all at once with the name stint.

The validity of Nightheart's feelings aren't relevant here, this is just about Squilf being in or out of character. You can be as loving and self-sacrificing as Squirrelflight is without giving up an ounce of ferocity; and I don't like seeing people imply those traits are in any way conflicting.

There’s a belief that Sparkpelt and Squirrelflight are being rewritten as ‘assholes‘ in ASC so far. They’re… not. Both of them have always been headstrong and argumentative, and both of them are personally offended by the idea that Nightheart wants to reject his legacy.

Sparkpelt, for example, started off in AVOS excited to fill the legacy of Firestar. That was very important to her identity. Her relation to Firestar was so important to her that she picked at least 2 names that reference fire with Larksong. Then her husband died. Now her son is rejecting the name they picked.

That is a consistent character. It makes sense that she as a character is upset by the current events.

Squirrelflight literally un-killed herself to go comfort Sparkpelt after she lost Larksong, so she wouldn’t raise her kits alone. She also cares immensely about her father and his legacy. She just went through an extremely traumatic situation in the previous arc. Nightheart has potential he keeps wasting by being reckless, and now he halted his entire warrior ceremony to cause a problem and this is hurting Sparkpelt.

That is a consistent character. It makes sense that she as a character is upset by the current events.

Nightheart isn’t being completely unreasonable by wanting the name change, and we’re seeing everything from his perspective. If you’re on his side, the POV is doing its job! They are ALSO not being cruel and unreasonable!

In reading a story from a POV, you’re supposed to step back and do some analysis. Nightheart is a very prickly and defensive character, it colors his perception of his family. It doesn’t mean they’ve completely changed to fit the narrative.

[staircasttext]

Ep 11 Transcript: Mashy Type of Place

Episode 11

[intro music]

PAZ: Hi everyone, welcome back to Stairway to StarClan, a Warriors Cat reread pawdcast. I'm Paz.

JULIAN: I'm Julian.

LIZ: And I'm Liz.

PAZ: And we're back after our brief break to read and discuss chapters 11 through chapter 14 of Fire and Ice. I just realized I don't know where my notes are.

JULIAN: The forbidden love angle in this one is great.

PAZ: Oh, they're on the floor. Okay, that was my chair squeaking as I leaned over to pick up my notes. Yeah, this is the start of the forbidden love situation which Warrior Cats so dearly adores. I don't know, any other pre-summary thoughts?

JULIAN: This set the tone for so many roleplays, um.

PAZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Just like if you were doing a Warrior Cats RP, and there wasn't someone who wasn't doing an interclan sneaky forbidden romance, were you even doing a Warrior Cats RP?

PAZ: I mean, like, that's just the book, too, frankly. I don't understand how it's still forbidden in future books because everyone and their mom is doing it, but. It's fine. Yeah, I guess we'll just get into the summaries. A lot happens. So bear with me.

So chapter 11 opens with Graystripe and Fireheart and their two apprentices heading out for hunting practice. The four travel to Sunningrocks to hunt. While there, the apprentices ask about Redtail's death at Sunningrocks, and Fireheart thinks again about Ravenpaw's accusations against Tigerclaw. The group moves on after Fireheart catches a vole and Cinderpaw ends up running into RiverClan territory to look at the frozen river. Graystripe then ends up falling into the icy river after accidentally breaking through the ice on the banks. Fireheart cannot find a way to pull them out and Graystripe is only saved when a RiverClan shecat jumps into the river and pulls him out. The cat introduces herself as Silverstream and says she doesn't want to see any cat drown and acted on instinct. The group of ThunderClan cats make their way back to camp and resolve to lie about where Graystripe fell into the water. Tigerclaw is waiting at the entrance of the camp and rightfully accuses them of having entered RiverClan territory.

In chapter 12, Cinderpaw easily lies to Tigerclaw about how Graystripe got wet and covered up their trespassing. Tigerclaw believes her and Graystripe is sent to Yellowfang. Fireheart thinks about how easily Cinderpaw lied and wonders again if Ravenpaw had also been a well-meaning and honest cat who stumbled into a lie. Fireheart then becomes frustrated that Bluestar's attitude towards Tigerclaw has not changed at all. Graystripe joins him at dinner with a cough and distracted attitude that Fireheart attributes to fever.

A few days later, Fireheart is told to see Bluestar and Tigerclaw. Tigerclaw thinks it's time for Cinderpaw and Brackenpaw to have an assessment to determine if Fireheart needs help mentoring them. Tigerclaw wants them sent hunting near the Twolegplace, which makes Fireheart nervous, but Tigerclaw says Sunningrocks is too dangerous to hunt near because of RiverClan. Fireheart then follows the apprentices as they hunt. The two apprentices do very well and capture a lot of prey. After they meet up, Cinderpaw asks him if Fireheart was really born at the Twolegplace. He says yes and she doesn't seem to mind. But it leaves Fireheart wondering if he's really happy that his old life is over.

In chapter 13, back at camp, Fireheart reports back to Bluestar and Tigerclaw. Bluestar approves of the apprentices' progress and allows him to continue overseeing Cinderpaw and Brackenpaw's training alone. Graystripe, who had been missing from camp, then returns. Fireheart tries to cover for Graystripe, and Tigerclaw is annoyed Graystripe is not focusing on recovering, as sickness is spreading through the camp. Fireheart then confronts Graystripe and asks him if he's leaving the camp. Graystripe is noncommittal in a way that basically admits to having left. Fireheart thinks about how the way Graystripe has been covering up his tracks is similar to his visits to Princess. Fireheart resolves to find out what Graystripe is doing.

The next day Runningwind and Fireheart train Brackenpaw and Cinderpaw together. However, Fireheart remains distracted throughout and eventually makes an excuse to leave training. He then waits to see where Graystripe is going outside the camp, and is disappointed to see his friend is actually sneaking out. Fireheart secretly follows Graystripe, who goes into RiverClan territory. Silverstream, the RiverClan shecat, then shows up, and the two act very friendly towards each other.

Chapter 14, Fireheart is horrified and calls out to Graystripe, demanding to know what he is doing. Silverstream says everything is safe and she knows there won't be a patrol coming, because she is Crookedstar's daughter. Fireheart demands that Graystripe leave and the two return to ThunderClan territory. Fireheart tells Graystripe he has to stop seeing Silverstream as Graystripe is breaking the clan code by seeing her. Graystripe refuses and is angry that Fireheart doubts his loyalty to ThunderClan. Graystripe declares that StarClan must have planned their meeting.

The two sneak back into camp and Fireheart goes to visit Yellowfang to maintain his cover of having a bellyache. Yellowfang seems stressed as supplies are running low and sickness spreading through the camp. Fireheart leaves, still bothered by the day's events. While out hunting, he decides the only way to solve this is to convince Silverstream these meetings need to stop and heads to RiverClan territory. The chapter ends with Fireheart picking up the scent of RiverClan warriors and hiding. And that's all of our reading this week.

JULIAN: I wish that like-- cause like the stuff with Fireheart like feeling conflicted about confronting Graystripe about his like forbidden interclan romance while continuing to visit his sister, it's interesting character-wise, but I wish we saw any more of his visits with his sister. Because the tension-- because they're all off screen, the tension is like less strong.

PAZ: Yeah, I was definitely disappointed. Like, we kind of just get told and not shown that he's having more meetings.

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: Yeah, because he also has a thought at one point where he's like, Oh, do I really like not regret leaving my kittypet life? Like my meetings with my sister have been so nice. And it's like, well, we only saw one. But okay, I'll take your word.

JULIAN: It's been a month. Has she delivered her kits yet? How long are cats pregnant for?

PAZ: That's a great question.

JULIAN: Sorry, not to be like a CinemaSins ding, but.

PAZ: Yeah, she was supposed to be heavily pregnant I think.

LIZ: Oh my god.

PAZ: Like if I remember correctly.

LIZ: How long are cats pregnant? Listen, let's lay this to rest. 58 to 67 days so she could still be extremely pregnant.

JULIAN: Alright, I take it back. Maybe she's just about to pop.

PAZ: Great. Yeah. Great. Yeah, so I mean, I guess this set of chapters is sort of these like... I mean, the one side of it is like the apprentice training. And then the other side is this shit with Graystripe and like the parallels and like hypocrisy of Fireheart, who's also been sneaking out off screen to see his sister. I would like that people stopped going into RiverClan territory seemingly no reason over and over and over again.

LIZ: I can't believe he just did it again on a whim.

PAZ: I know. Ahh.

LIZ: He was thinking so much again, and then it just like... Fireheart please. You're killing me. You're killing me personally.

JULIAN: I mean, it does make sense-- for a certain level of sense. It does make sense for him to be like well, my idiot friend won't listen to me. Like, maybe his girlfriend will. Like, nice thought. Won't happen.

LIZ: Nope.

PAZ: No

JULIAN: But God. Graystripe being like StarClan-- we were fated to meet. It was StarClan. It's like, no, it wasn't.

PAZ: I gotta know what Silverstream is seeing in him cause...

JULIAN: Yeah, no, I also don't know what she sees in him. He is... I mean, it's very much like competent girl/real dumb boy that she has to rescue.

LIZ: Kind of like extremely right off the bat too.

JULIAN: Yeah, which like I do think-- if this were an animated media, there would be a million little... I'm sure there are like AMVs of their meeting with romantic music as she pulls him out of the water.

PAZ: Absolutely.

JULIAN: And you know, I'm not opposed to a boy in distress as like a first meeting. But also he keeps being dumb.

LIZ: Right now, they have a real like... the main couple from Ratatouille.

PAZ: You're right.

JULIAN: It is. What is it, Celeste, I think? And Linguini.

PAZ: Graystripe is Linguini.

LIZ: Graystripe, you're a pasta to me.

PAZ: Yeah, I mean, he just... I still feel like he hasn't established a distinct character, although his character is quickly developing into a shitty friend.

LIZ: Shitty friend, centrist, doesn't believe their traumatized other friend.

PAZ: Yeah. Graystripe has a lot of dings against him here.

LIZ: He's also kind of a shitty teacher.

PAZ: No, like that-- yeah. That's part of him being a shitty friend is like one, you're leaving your best friend to take like double duty teaching, and you're also a shitty teacher because you're leaving your friend to teach your student.

JULIAN: I feel like the thing with Graystripe is as obnoxious as he is proving to be, he is-- like everyone has had a friend like Graystripe, especially like for like the middle grade/early high school audience. Like everyone has a friend who ends up dating someone and like completely ditches you for them.

PAZ: That's very true.

LIZ: I guess it is like his first romance, too. I don't know how old these cats are supposed to be at this point, like mentally.

PAZ: I think they've reached like--

LIZ: Early...

PAZ: --fully, like young adult.

LIZ: Yeah, like 20?

PAZ: Yeah.

LIZ: Ish. I mean, they're... they've got students, but I don't know. They're cats.

JULIAN: Yeah, I don't think human ages map very well.

LIZ: No.

JULIAN: Oh, you know, I'm actually-- I'm going to revise what I said. Graystripe isn't the shitty friend. He's like a combo of the shitty friend and also the shitty boyfriend somehow at once. He's like, simultaneously your shitty friend and your friend's shitty boyfriend who's always around.

LIZ: Yeah. He's Linguini.

PAZ: Like Fireheart has apparently been sneaking off to see his sister, but he seems to have been keeping up his teaching duties too.

JULIAN: Right, it doesn't seem to have affected his students, who are very good hunters and very enthusiastic.

PAZ: Yeah. Also Graystripe is like getting everyone sick apparently through his...

JULIAN: Is he a disease vector?

PAZ: That's what's implied.

LIZ: Now is he-- does he just like pretend to drown every time he sees his girlfriend? Is that why he's always like, oh, I've got a cold. I'm so sick. Achoo.

JULIAN: I can't think about their drowning RP.

PAZ: Oh god. Yeah, I mean, like, it's one thing to be a shitty friend. But I think you're also now indirectly responsible for mass sickness. So good job, Graystripe.

JULIAN: Well done. I mean, I think it's implied. I'm not sure if it's implied right now. It seems like it's like he had a cough because he got wet and cold. And he's not like healing, because he's sneaking out and being active and smooching his girlfriend instead of like, convalescing. So I'm not sure if it's like, is there sickness in the RiverClan camp that he's also bringing back?

PAZ: Yeah, I mean, I also thought he just got sick from being wet. But the way the book kept mentioning his name in connection to like, everyone else getting sick made it seem like... I don't know. Maybe he got weak and got a virus and that's his sickness. I don't know. Also, the cats don't know anything about germs really, so.

JULIAN: Yeah, the cats do not have a robust germ theory.

LIZ: No. I mean, it's been mentioned before that, like RiverClan is having problems finding food in the river. So I don't think it's like some sort of waterborne illness or like pollution or something. But it would be interesting if it was.

JULIAN: Mm. Graystripe has been eating diseased fish.

LIZ: Can you imagine this big, just like soggy cat rolls up to you, just like sneezing and snotty and is just like, fancy meeting you here, cat of an enemy clan. Do you want to like... do you want to hang out? Are you free? Heyyy. Achoo.

JULIAN: He can't even hunt.

PAZ: God. Yeah. I'm very frustrated with him.

JULIAN: All the stuff with the apprentices is very cute though.

PAZ: Yeah, they're so cute.

JULIAN: As annoyed as I am with Graystripe, there is a moment at the very beginning where he like, catches a leaf and then tries to play it off like oh, you always gotta be ready. Gotta practice your hunting. And it's like, aw, he's just a little guy. But he's a shitty little guy, so

PAZ: Yeah, that was really cute. Cinderpaw is extremely cute. She's very like, little kid energies.

LIZ: Yeah, these are like kitten kittens, you know. There's the one that's like, jumping around and knocking shit over and then the other one just looks permanently serious and confused. You know what I mean?

PAZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Yeah.

PAZ: Yeah, I mean, Cinderpaw did lead to this horrible forbidden romance inadvertently cause she rushed into RiverClan territory, but I forgive her because she's so cute.

LIZ: Just a baby.

JULIAN: She does stress me out a lot because she keeps doing shit. She keeps just running off and like, you know, might--

LIZ: Is that what it's like to have children?

JULIAN: Well, my old babysitter instincts are like, Oh, God.

LIZ: It's like, it's terrifying. She just keeps... she just goes.

PAZ: Yeah, I mean, like, I know what this is setting up.

JULIAN: Yeah.

PAZ: So it's extra, like stop doing this.

LIZ: I'm sure that means nothing.

PAZ: Yeah, don't worry about it.

JULIAN: Don't worry about it. It's definitely fine.

LIZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Yeah, no, it is very much like, you know, flashback to being a teen and trying to keep my little sister from yanking out of my hand and running into the road.

PAZ: Yeah, I mean, the other thing is Tigerclaw keeps being the reasonable one.

JULIAN: I know.

PAZ: Which is still very funny, just because everyone is acting like a buffoon, everyone else.

LIZ: I like it a lot. It's just, it's so interesting because it's like, oh, you're my enemy. You definitely are a murderer. But I guess... hmm. It's fun energy after he was just so comically evil before.

JULIAN: I know.

PAZ: Yeah, exactly.

JULIAN: It's also like, the little interaction that Fireheart has with Cinderpaw where he's like, Oh, you trust Tigerclaw, and she's like, Yeah, why wouldn't I? It's like, well, he is comically evil, but like, she hasn't really seen him be comically evil. She was a baby.

PAZ: Yeah, I do like that it's still pulling through the plot thread of like, Fireheart doubting because nobody else is taking, like, what Ravenpaw said seriously. I am as frustrated as he is with Bluestar for like...

LIZ: Yeah, what the fuck?

PAZ: Just completely ignoring this.

LIZ: She's had so many people die on her, like.

JULIAN: Well, speaking of, she's like, yeah, we lost five kits last winter to this sickness. I'm sure it's fine, though. Like, what are-- what?

LIZ: Hey, hello.

JULIAN: The infant mortality rates here are bananas. Are y'all good?

PAZ: No, they should be inside. They should be.

LIZ: Right. There's like 30 of them or something.

PAZ: Yeah, I mean, they have like fucking Dark Age Europe infant mortality rates going on here.

JULIAN: I guess this explains why, like, you know, despite the fact that cat litters are usually like, you know, three to five to six. I don't know. A number of kittens. It seems like everyone only has like one or two siblings. Half of them are dying.

PAZ: Do you think they do that thing like people used to do in the old days where they don't name the kids until they're a certain age because they're like, well, half of you are just gonna fucking drop dead?

JULIAN: Well, is that why they don't get their full warrior name? Is that what warrior names are?

LIZ: Oh my god.

PAZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: Cause it's like, oh, you're just sort of an interchangeable like kit/paw until like, you reach adulthood because you might just die.

PAZ: This is dark.

LIZ: We just cracked this wide open.

JULIAN: Oh God.

LIZ: That could explain why there's like so many, I don't know, Ashpaws or whatever around. It's like how you keep naming your children like James or something because they just keep dying, and then some of them do survive.

JULIAN: Right, eventually you'll get one.

LIZ: Yeah, and then you're like, stuck with two of them.

PAZ: God.

LIZ: Bluestar at like a baby naming ceremony just like, okay, now you're Leafpaw and you're Leafpaw, and you're also--

JULIAN: Bluestar just scrolling down a list of names like the way they name hurricanes.

PAZ: I mean, Bluestar doesn't pick the first half. That's the moms I think.

JULIAN: That's true. It is the moms.

PAZ: That'd be real fucked up if only your leader could name your children.

LIZ: Only the president can name you. Do you think Tigerclaw in his coup-minded like headspace is like thinking about the infant mortality rate? I don't know because he tried to kill one of them. But is this part of his dissatisfaction politically?

PAZ: Well, that baby gave him bad vibes.

LIZ: Oh true.

PAZ: What if the child simply had bad vibes? Then it's fine.

JULIAN: The infant mortality rate is only a problem when it's inconvenient for Tigerclaw and not...

PAZ: Yeah. I mean, I'm sure--

JULIAN: Yo Tigerclaw, what's your health care plan?

LIZ: He says 99.9999999% of babies will live. The other percent is just Ravenpaw.

PAZ: Oh god. You know, I'm glad Ravenpaw got out of this mess because--

LIZ: Yeah, it sucks.

PAZ: Fucking everything's bad here. Even your friend group is shitty now.

LIZ: This is what happens when the gay cat leaves. It's just like, oh.

PAZ: Yeah, Graystripe is off--

JULIAN: Ravenpaw went to cat New York. God, I do like-- how traumatic must it be to be like a queen where your kids are constantly dying?

PAZ: Yeah. Yeah, it sucks to live here in the forest.

JULIAN: Like, Princess's kits are going to get veterinary care.

PAZ: Yeah.

LIZ: And apparently they all just live next to each other too. So like separation's not even a problem and they get to go outside.

PAZ: Yeah, you mean the kittypets?

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: Yeah, maybe Fireheart should be like reconsidering if he wants to go back to being a kittypet because, uh, I would be.

LIZ: It's not too late.

JULIAN: Well, I'm a little concerned about his visiting Princess now that there's like disease running rampant in the camps. Like what's going to happen if he gives them some weird forest disease?

PAZ: Well, that's the beauty of it. They can go get veterinary care.

LIZ: Do you think Fire--

PAZ: Also, I mean--

LIZ: Oh, sorry.

PAZ: Oh, well, Fireheart probably has some amount of shots also, which is why he's so powerful.

JULIAN: That's true.

PAZ: So maybe he won't get anything.

JULIAN: You're right, I had completely forgotten about how he probably had some shots.

LIZ: Yeah, that's why he's the chosen one.

PAZ: He's like an ubermensch.

LIZ: Like Spottedleaf having her prophetic vision, like, I see an orange cat, who's never going to get the cold or rabies. He will save us all.

JULIAN: Fireheart's true power was immunity to heartworms.

LIZ: I don't know, where do we go next?

PAZ: I don't know, we've kind of just been jumping all over the place.

JULIAN: I feel like these three chapters-- or four chapters are like, they sort of grow, but they kind of loop back on themselves sort of. Like it's not as direct an arc. It's like Fireheart, trains the apprentices, and then he worries about Graystripe, and then he trains the apprentices, and then he finds out that Graystripe's been actually doing some shit.

PAZ: Yeah, it was like, a lot of like, small details happened, but also like, nothing really happened.

LIZ: Yeah, it feels like-- the way that nothing happened, but also a lot of problems are introduced, is it kind of adds the feeling of anxiety. I think also it's been a while since I read this part. But like, doesn't Bluestar say like, she's gonna move the kittens' training to someone else?

PAZ: No, she decides that like, Fireheart's doing fine.

LIZ: Oh okay.

PAZ: Yeah, it's what the like assessment was about.

LIZ: Oh, right. Right. Then nevermind.

JULIAN: The assessment was very, like fun to read. Hunting sequences are always really evocative and fun. There's one bit where Cinderpaw like, sees Fireheart and is like, am I doing good? Which is really cute.

PAZ: Yeah, it's so cute.

LIZ: When she sneaks up on him.

PAZ: Yeah. It was like a sweet little moment where like, she was like, so were you a kittypet? And he's like, yeah, and she's just like, okay. I'm fine with that.

JULIAN: Good for her.

PAZ: Yeah, I hope she doesn't internalize prejudices soon.

JULIAN: I really-- I know this won't happen. But I would love for her to get to meet Princess. I think that would be very fun.

PAZ: Yeah.

LIZ: Aw.

JULIAN: I just think she'd be very curious in a very cute way about kittypet life.

PAZ: I mean, I guess going back to Graystripe's forbidden romance, Fireheart definitely had points about like, well, what are you gonna do when we go to war? Cause that seems like it's gonna happen.

JULIAN: God. Well, and the bit where she's like, using her knowledge of the patrol routes because she's the leader's daughter.

PAZ: Right? That's so funny.

JULIAN: She's gonna get in trouble for that, dude.

LIZ: This is-- it'll be fine. Don't worry, nothing's gonna happen. This is a regular, safe situation. And none of these cats have ever been stupid.

JULIAN: Right.

PAZ: No, never.

JULIAN: Nothing bad has ever happened to a cat in a Warrior Cats book.

PAZ: I mean, it is highlighting like the fucking like stupidity of the rigidity of the warrior code, but they're not gonna change that. So stop sneaking off.

JULIAN: I mean, is there literally a rule somewhere in the warrior code that says you can't date cats from other clans? I just, I'm so confused about how specific the warrior code gets.

PAZ: I thought there was. Yeah. I feel like that might actually be up on the official website somewhere.

JULIAN: Oh, really?

PAZ: But yeah, I always assumed like interclan relationships were like, codified no-nos.

LIZ: I don't know if-- this is like just me lacking, like, lore knowledge. But like, it felt like it is not allowed, but it's not unheard of as a bad thing that has happened, right?

JULIAN: Yeah, I mean, I'm sure that it like--

LIZ: Like quote unquote "bad."

JULIAN: It has to have happened-- well, first off, it happens a lot in the books.

PAZ: Yeah, it's definitely happened. I think you find out about that later.

JULIAN: But also like, it must happen, because otherwise they wouldn't have like-- it wouldn't be such a taboo if it wasn't, you know, a thing that happened. But foolishly, they've just made it much more sexy by forbidding it.

PAZ: Yeah, they really messed up there. Everyone loves a forbidden romance.

JULIAN: Right? They should have just been like, oh, the cats from the other clans... I mean, you can date them, but like, they're really boring. Nothing to see here.

PAZ: Yeah, I know what, like where Graystripe ends up, but I have no idea how that happens. So I'm looking forward to that.

LIZ: Oh, you mean happily married after like, I don't know, six years of really slow dating? And then they like move in and start a cat bakery. I don't know. They have 2.5 kids. It's really boring. Average.

PAZ: 2.5 kids because half of their children died.

JULIAN: Does Graystripe have a lawn?

PAZ: Yeah, yeah. He feels like the guy.

JULIAN: He feels like a real barbecue dad.

LIZ: Yeah. I was just gonna say that.

PAZ: Yeah. His big like riding lawnmower that he's really proud of. And he's like, really boring and frustrating also to be around. That's him.

JULIAN: You meet him at the neighborhood barbecue and he corrals you to like talk about the upgrades he just made to his riding mower.

PAZ: Exactly.

JULIAN: It has like a little flag on it. I don't know what the flag is but it is there.

LIZ: Halfway through the barbecue he disappears. And you find out that he's fallen into the pool. His wife has to go get him.

JULIAN: They met in high school.

LIZ: Oh no.

JULIAN: She was a cheerleader at the rival football team.

LIZ: She's like, from the rival school but she's like, the star water polo athlete who's also like the daughter of the principal.

PAZ: Hold on, I'm googling Graystripe hate because I need to...

JULIAN: Oh god. I bet there was so much Graystripe hate back in the day.

PAZ: Why Graystripe Annoys Me by Foxtail.

JULIAN: Oh good. I mean like--

LIZ: Wow. Do you-- no, go ahead.

JULIAN: As a teen myself, I was very into Graystripe's story at the time. I thought it was incredibly romantic. I was fully in support. As an adult, I'm like alright buddy, calm down.

PAZ: Yeah, I liked him, starting with the New Prophecy. Is that the second series? Because I didn't really have this context. Like yeah, seeing him be a shitty friend I am a little annoyed with this guy.

JULIAN: Yeah, no, 11 year old me was like, why isn't Fireheart more understanding? Graystripe is in love. And now as someone who's worked on group projects, I'm like, fuck.

LIZ: Uh huh. I would-- imagine you have to work on a PowerPoint with Graystripe for like your very most final project. It's like 75% of your grade.

PAZ: Oh my god.

LIZ: You can't be judged individually. It's terrible.

PAZ: Sorry, I'm reading this blog post. This person fucking eviscerates Graystripe. "Graystripe never even thought about what could happen. Fireheart knew that Tigerclaw was beginning to get suspicious and tried to warn his friend. But Graystripe just snapped at him and said to stay out of his fur. Fireheart was a better friend of the two, in my opinion. He stayed loyal to Graystripe even if Graystripe didn't stay loyal to him."

LIZ: No.

JULIAN: No!

PAZ: "But Graystripe didn't care. He didn't care if he was betraying his clan or not or how much hurt he caused Fireheart. All he cared about was his feelings and what he wanted. He even ditched Brackenpaw's training, which was highly important, just to get away and sneak out." I agree with all of this.

JULIAN: They're making some good points. He did ditch Brackenpaw's training.

LIZ: Poor Brackenpaw, who is-- you know, we've talked about Cinderpaw a lot. He's getting a lot less characterization, which makes me worried.

PAZ: He's just a polite little boy.

JULIAN: Yeah, he's just a sweet little guy.

LIZ: I don't know, you guys haven't talked about him much. So I don't know.

JULIAN: No, I don't think you need to, like worry about him. He's just like, you know, he hasn't really been given much of a personality.

PAZ: I mean, he has a personality. The personality is just like, good student.

LIZ: It's just me, aged like 12 to 17.

JULIAN: No, he's just a little guy.

LIZ: He's just a little guy.

JULIAN: Um, and it does suck that Graystripe is ignoring him because he seems like the kind of little guy who would like take that personally and be like, aw, well, I guess he just doesn't... I guess I'm not very interesting. You know.

LIZ: No.

PAZ: Aw.

JULIAN: In a way that makes me very sad.

LIZ: Well, Graystripe's my enemy now. Before I was like, yes, he's annoying, but I do enjoy what this is doing for character conflict, but now he's just my enemy. Thank you, Julian.

PAZ: Right? What if he gives Brackenpaw a complex about how he's not good enough and nobody wants him?

LIZ: No! Justice for Brackenpaw.

JULIAN: I mean, here's the thing. Like Bluestar does, like threaten to take away Brackenpaw as an apprentice. So clearly she is concerned about Graystripe's--

PAZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: And she doesn't know that he's fucking off. But you know.

PAZ: This poor kid. I mean, I guess at least he doesn't have his mentor trying to murder him. But.

JULIAN: Yeah, the bar is pretty low.

LIZ: The bar is underground.

JULIAN: The bar is in snake hell.

PAZ: I did like that brief scene with Runningwind, who was just like being completely normal and a good teacher. Thanks.

JULIAN: I thought it was very funny. There's a sequence where Fireheart is like, really, he's really distracted because he's worried about Graystripe, which is very sad. But he's like, Oh, I'm going to demonstrate how to track a rabbit or whatever. And then he realizes halfway through that he's like, showing how to track a bird and the kits are very, like, ya dumb. It's really cute.

PAZ: Yeah. Yeah. And Runningwind is like... when he came up with an excuse to leave, Runningwind was just like, yeah, you seem to be out of it. Like, go ahead. I'll take care of it.

LIZ: Yeah, I'm not sure how much more senior like Runningwind is, but there's a good sense of like Fireheart is trying to be more of a mentor, like act older and more mature, but he's still kind of young. So like, there's gonna be hiccups like this. And there's that interesting struggle between that, which is really, you know, it feels natural for young adults, that awkwardness.

JULIAN: Oh definitely. Like when you have to train someone who's a lot older than you at work, and you're just like, hi.

LIZ: Yeah, this is the feeling I had when I was, um, like a college tutor at a community college, and I had a lot of older students. It's like, Oh, God, you know what taxes are. I don't know. Should I be doing this for you?

JULIAN: Fireheart trying to put on his customer service voice.

LIZ: (perkily) Hi, welcome to ThunderClan.

JULIAN: (equally perkily) Today, we're going to be learning about hunting rabbits.

LIZ: And Excel. You just let me know if you have any questions.

PAZ: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I have much else to say, really.

JULIAN: I think we've kind of covered it.

PAZ: Yeah.

[meow]

PAZ: So I'm sure everyone has heard about the imminent death of Yahoo Answers. Pour one out. So, you know, we felt the need to scour it for Warrior Cats content before it's axed. So we're gonna bring you some highlights here.

JULIAN: Do you want me to go ahead and start reading the first one?

PAZ: Sure.

JULIAN: All right. So the great thing about Yahoo Answers now is that because all of these answers are so old, all the timestamps are "one decade ago."

LIZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: Which I hate to see. But one decade ago, user Sophia Utley asked in Pets: Cats, "does anyone know any good websites on how to draw a Warrior Cat??? Question mark, question mark, question mark. I'm soooo frustrated. I can't draw a cat or find anything on how to draw it on paper."

LIZ: Oh my god.

PAZ: I feel this. This is a mood, Sophia. Um, there's two answers. The favorite answer, from Mallory H: "I do not know anything about what the heck a Warrior Cat is. But I can give you some advice on drawing. What I do with cats-- I suck at them-- is I find a good reference picture online, then print it out." I have to-- I have to interrupt. This person is just randomly capitalizing words in this answer.

LIZ: Ahead of the game.

PAZ: Kind of ahead of the time, yeah. It's a tone. Okay, Mallory continues. "Use your pencil to draw out the basic shapes in the cat. Circle for the head, torso and rump. Black circles for the joints and the legs, and lines to connect the joints. After that, copy it onto the paper, make sure all the circles, lines, and joints are in the right places. Then add the flesh, muscles, etc. Hope I helped."

LIZ: It feels-- it's like medieval because of all the capitalization, but also like, you know, your bog standard blog posts from 2020 now.

JULIAN: I mean, this is like, you know, legitimately helpful. This is the drawing advice that was in the book of how to draw cats that I checked out from the library in 2008. And it was, you know, well, it's sort of useful because like, yes, that is how you draw something. You draw the base shapes, and then you extrapolate from there. But the jump from like, here's circles to here's a cat, it's a big one.

PAZ: It's like the joke I saw where it's like art advice. It's like draw a circle and then the next panel is just like a fully shaded portrait. The other answer simply links to some books, one of which is MechaMania: How to Draw Warrior Robots, Cool Spaceships, and Military Vehicles.

LIZ: Wait. The last link is to idrawgirls.blogspot.com.

PAZ: Yeah, it's How to Draw a Werewolf Pizza Monster.

JULIAN: How to draw a werewolf. Nothing about cats. And then the links in between are possible-- I presume this person's actual drawings. Unfortunately, the images are now broken, but it is a drawing of a warrior cat and a drawing labeled "Matrix Cat."

LIZ: Oh my god.

PAZ: Yeah, this post was disliked. It was not helpful.

JULIAN: I do want to see if I can find-- if Matrix Cat was perhaps archived because I would love to see it. Damn, it was not archived. Lost to time.

LIZ: Can we boolean search Matrix Cat? There has to be something, right?

PAZ: This is tragic.

LIZ: Oh, it's something.

JULIAN: Oh.

PAZ: Is this like the Matrix guy as a cat?

LIZ: It's just like a little cat with sunglasses.

PAZ: Yeah, that's the Matrix guy as a cat.

JULIAN: Aw, that's really good.

LIZ: And also cats made of like green hacker code. There's a deviantArt sticker.

JULIAN: Um, the next one is also very good. Again asked in the Pets: Cats section.

PAZ: Of course.

JULIAN: Anonymous asks, "what are some good powers that a Warrior Cat can have? I am writing a Warrior Cats by Erin Hunter fanfiction. But the cats can control stuff, sort of like X-men can...... so yeah..... what's some good powers they can have? Example: flame ice water thunder."

LIZ: That's such a good question.

PAZ: This is an important question.

JULIAN: It is.

PAZ: What if the cats had powers?

JULIAN: There's a lot of very good powers in the answers.

PAZ: Do you want to read part of the next one, the answer, Liz?

LIZ: Yes, I do. Alright, this is from-- this is the favorite answer, from Josie Jayfeather Mulcaney and some sort of symbol, which really adds to it.

JULIAN: It's a little trident, the psi.

LIZ: Alright. "Here's a list of all the things that your character could control. I list the main element, then the side powers that come with it. Example, when you control fire you can also control ashes, fire, ash, lava, embers, and coals. Ice, snow, frost. Water, just water. Lightning, electricity and storms. Venom, poisonous snakes."

PAZ: Yep.

LIZ: "Regeneration, you can regenerate/heal like Wolverine. Earth, flowers, stone, vines, roots, anything earthy. Stone--" which is kind of confusing, given the first one-- "can turn cats to stone and control boulders, rocks, pebbles, etc. Light, can give life to dead plants or cats."

PAZ: What?!

LIZ: "Can control light and create light, etc. Darkness/shadow, can kill plants or cats, can control shadows, necromancer. Wind, can control wind, use wind to lift or bury things, can use wind to lift self and fly. Shapeshifter, can shift shapes, change into any creature, from fish to hawk to deer to human. Storms, can control/change weather, can control rain, lightning, tornado, winds, clouds, anything. Dreams, can control dreams, walk in dreams, and send visions to other cats. Teleportation, can teleport self through time a few hours or to different locations. Telepathy, can read minds. I think that's all... That's all I have used. Anyways, I hope I helped. Josie Jayfeather. Heart emoji."

JULIAN: This is-- I have some problems with this person's characterization. But the idea that Josie Jayfeather has used all of these powers in her Warrior fanfictions is incredible. Imagine how the story changes if you can turn a cat into stone.

PAZ: I know I was reading fic with that kinda shit in it.

LIZ: Okay, what if they're like twin cats and one of them has earth powers, which controls stone, and the other cat has stone powers, which turns cats into stone.

PAZ: Oh shit.

JULIAN: Oh shit.

LIZ: They're evil twins.

JULIAN: Dynamic duo.

PAZ: Oh my god. That's frightening.

JULIAN: Absolutely incredible. Also the shapeshifter that can turn into humans?

PAZ: Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. Um, here's another good answer from Lee. "Redirect electricity bolts after chewing through an electric cord, power to invisibly sneak up on people, power to lick holes into things with their rough tongue, power to freeze things through their annoyed ice kitty stares. The power to make others become unconscious with their fishy breath." I like Lee's commitment to the theme here.

LIZ: Yeah, he's having a little fun too.

JULIAN: Lee seems like a regular reader of the Pet Cat section and maybe not a regular reader of the Warrior Cats ouvre.

PAZ: Yeah, this was disliked, which I don't agree with. I think it's good.

JULIAN: I don't agree with that. I'm going to give it a like.

PAZ: Can I like it? Yeah, I'm giving it a like.

JULIAN: Oh, I have to log in my Yahoo account to like it.

PAZ: Oh, I'm actually logged in.

LIZ: There's one more answer at the end if someone wants to read it.

JULIAN: Oh, yes. Sorry. I lost the page. Let me go back. The final answer, by Princess is-- oh, there's two more.

LIZ: Oh, yeah.

JULIAN: One of them is "invisible missile launchers, the power to see through wooden doors--" only wooden-- "they can jump on top of skyscrapers..."

LIZ: Perfect.

JULIAN: And then the final answer, from Jim. "Kill just by staring."

PAZ: Jim's answer was from six years ago. He revisited this.

JULIAN: He waited four years to come up with that answer.

LIZ: He thought about it. And he came up with the best one. Well, just important question here. Which of these powers would you guys have?

JULIAN: Ooh.

PAZ: Oh, that's a good question.

LIZ: We can also put this-- I think this is a good Twitter poll. We should put this up somehow, even though there's like 15 answers.

JULIAN: We could pick our top four favorite powers and let people vote. Um, if I were to pick the power that I think would be most useful in the Warrior Cats universe, it would be earth because there's a lot of plants.

PAZ: Yeah, that's true.

JULIAN: Although venom is compelling because then you'd be immune to snake hell.

PAZ: Light, where you can apparently give life to cats would be great. You would solve that infant mortality problem. I like that light, you can give life to cats. But darkness is necromancer. So I guess there's like a good revival and a bad revival.

LIZ: Interesting.

JULIAN: Oh, yeah, those are the same thing. I guess it's the difference between like, bringing someone back to life and like, controlling their corpse.

PAZ: Philosophical questions here. What would you choose?

LIZ: I would choose winds. I want to fly. Flying cat, make it happen. Surprised it's not a thing in this book, this series. But I don't know. Maybe physiologically they stay pretty cat standard.

JULIAN: There were a lot of--

PAZ: Cats with wings?

JULIAN: Yeah, a lot of wingfic.

PAZ: Yeah. I know it well.

LIZ: I can imagine. Imagine you live in England, in just like a town. You know, with some like forests or whatever nearby where there's a lot of fuckin feral cats and you're just like, walking home. You see like a cat with wings.

PAZ: Fuck yeah.

JULIAN: That's good as hell. I think there was a book about that. Like Catwings, I think it was called.

LIZ: Wasn't that the one by Ursula Le Guin?

JULIAN: I think so.

PAZ: Wow.

JULIAN: Yeah, it was by Ursula Le Guin. There were four of them. Kittens that were born with wings. Oh, they were children's books. Yes. Aw, these are really cute. I didn't-- I only read the first one. I didn't know there were four.

LIZ: Well, you know what kids like, clearly.

JULIAN: Cats with wings.

LIZ: Yeah. She knew.

JULIAN: Oh, these overlapped with-- these overlapped with the Warrior books, like sort of. The last one was published in 1999.

LIZ: I thought you were gonna say like Left Hand of Darkness. It's like oh, is this an interconnected universe?

JULIAN: Left Hand of Darkness/Catwings crossover.

PAZ: Should we move on to the next question?

LIZ: Mm-hmm.

PAZ: This one is titled "/?" and it was asked in Arts and Humanities, Books and Authors. Oh, wait. Slash question mark was the person's name. Sorry. This is the title. "?? Warriors series?????" I would guess there's about 30 question marks following that. "Warriors series age? Hi. I recently heard about Warriors series by Eric Hunter cats are involved. What are the ages for that book? I'm 13. Is that a right age? Please answer. And is it a good series for a boy? What's it about? Does it go in order? Does it jump around? Thanks so much."

LIZ: Oh my God.

JULIAN: Josie returns.

LIZ: Josie!

JULIAN: "The Warrior Cats series is for all ages. I'm 17 and I read them." This was a decade ago. So Josie is now 27.

LIZ: She's our age.

JULIAN: I know.

LIZ: Well, she's almost my age.

JULIAN: Hey, listeners, if you are Josie Jayfeather, we would love to hear from you.

PAZ: Yeah, please.

JULIAN: "I think that both girls and guys can love the series and characters. They're universal. Four clans of feral cats live in the forest, ThunderClan, ShadowClan, WindClan and RiverClan. They fight for prey and territory, etc. It sounds bland, but it isn't. Trust me." And then Josie has helpfully given all of the books in order, which I will not read aloud.

PAZ: Yeah, she does it in chronological order actually, like, including some of those special books that were like chronological timeline order.

LIZ: Wow.

PAZ: That's very thorough.

JULIAN: I mean, I guess that kind of makes sense. If you are invested in the characters, you might want to read the special editions.

PAZ: Yeah. Wow.

JULIAN: This is incredible.

PAZ: This is a long list. Thank you, Josie.

JULIAN: One thing I did notice when I was going through the-- when I was searching for some of these Yahoo Answers is that there are a lot of people who are just asking for a list of all of the Warriors series in order, because they want to know what order to read them in.

LIZ: Well, if you're 13, you don't know what Wikipedia is, right? All your teachers are saying, okay, this is your first essay. Don't plagiarize. You can't use Wikipedia. So where else can you go?

JULIAN: That's true. Um, my favorite answer is the next one.

PAZ: Yeah. Should I read it?

LIZ: Oh my goodness. Yes.

PAZ: This one's from anonymous. "Please choose me as best answer. I am 13 years old too, and the Warriors series is the only book I've ever liked. Ever. It begins with a house cat (kittypet) named Rusty. This curious cat ventures--" wow. I can't talk. "This curious cat ventures out into the wild trying to catch a mouse he spotted. As he is walking in the strange land filled with new scents and feelings he gets attacked by an apprentice, a gray tom (male cat) becomes his best friend throughout the series. Will he be accepted into the clan?......... Warrior Cats is a book that is definitely a boy book (however I'm a tomboy so I like it anyways.) It is a book filled with adventure, mystery, excitement, and well, lots of battles. xD. I've never seen a person pick up that book and put it back down. And it's not a six book series. It's about 30 maybe books. And yes, it is age appropriate. xD Well, that is if you don't mind, death, blood, and violence of any kind."

LIZ: Oh my god.

PAZ: "Anyway, it's a very fun book, and it never gets boring. Smiley face. I first read it when my brother dared me to read the first book."

LIZ: Aw.

PAZ: "On the very first chapter I was sucked into the story. And btw, the people not person who writes these books, it's actually their code name Erin Hunter and it's actually it's three people who write the books. And they do not jump around. They are in order." And then lists an order of which to read. And then they finish, "actually I forgot the others because I am not actually done with the series yet. Little sweating smiling emoji. Lol. Sorry. Anyways, that could keep you bust for a while. And they say at the end of each book what the next one is. Well, have fun reading them. Best books ever. Have fun."

LIZ: Precious.

JULIAN: I love this so much.

PAZ: So cute. I hope they read the rest and had fun.

LIZ: Um, just to draw attention to not-- these are really long answers, all of these, mostly because they have all the books in order, all of them, forever. But the next one says, "they are perfect for any gender," and then also defines the four clans in a very interesting way. "There are four clans: WindClan, fastest runner, like the open space. RiverClan, best swimmer, like to live near rivers, streams, ponds. ShadowClan, known for being very secretive, like mashy type of place. ThunderClan, bravest, strongest, like to live in forest with lots of trees."

PAZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Oh, okay. I think they meant to type marshy instead of mashy.

PAZ: Yeah, they did. But I like mashy.

JULIAN: Oh, very good.

LIZ: Potato fans.

JULIAN: I'd also like to draw attention to this answer from arceo, four years ago, which is "fashionable sustainable character? Graystripe fashionable minor character? Hawkfrost fashionable drugs cat?"

LIZ: Wait.

PAZ: Jayfeather? Why?

LIZ: What?

JULIAN: I think it's a bot that's just, um, like, listing things that appear in like Google searches or something. Um, the last sentence is "Foxtail visual charm? Jack dark ginger tabby shecat with bright eco-friendly and a hairy tail like a fox's preferred prolonged relatives? From tale, ShadowClan. My own. ShadeClan."

PAZ: Yep.

JULIAN: Like this is clearly a bot. But I'm so...

PAZ: I love it.

JULIAN: --confused about how it was coded.

PAZ: I'm clicking on this. Can I click on this profile?

LIZ: This just generated us a new character, I think.

PAZ: This user's activity is private? Fuck you.

LIZ: What happened? They've given almost 2000 answers.

PAZ: Yeah, I mean, if it's a bot, I guess they can just...

JULIAN: Damn.

PAZ: My gosh. That's great. I love it. Um, do you want to read the next one? It's kind of long.

JULIAN: The next one is pretty long. It's just, uh, someone is asking for ideas for a Warrior Cats fanfic. The reason I really liked this is that the first answer is someone giving an incredibly long and very detailed, like plot summary, with lots of characters, lots of like... I'm not sure if this is this person's OCs or like. It's a lot. It's a whole lot. And then the last answer is from user Scribbles. But each letter in Scribbles is its own little, you know, special symbol. So it's like, S is a $ sign, etc, etc. And it just says, "this is copying."

LIZ: No, it's fanfic.

PAZ: I don't know.

JULIAN: I can't tell if Scribbles is upset about the concept of fanfiction or if Scribbles is like, you're stealing other people's idea. You're crowdsourcing your fanfic ideas off Yahoo Answers.

PAZ: Yeah, it's hard to say. It was an unpopular answer though. It got six downvotes.

LIZ: Good.

JULIAN: Scribbles in general does not have a great-- only 15% of their answers have been favorited.

PAZ: Damn.

LIZ: Wow. There's an answer from Anonymous that just says like, "sounds pretty good, but I think you should move away from the names and think of description. Nothing makes a book better than if it has a balance of description, dialogue, action, humor, and heartbreak. I have written an 80 page fanfic, and believe me, that is how I got anywhere."

PAZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: That is how you do it.

LIZ: Thank you, Anonymous. Yeah. Gotta have a balance of description, dialogue, action, humor, and heartbreak.

PAZ: Yeah, I mean, that sums it up. That's the best writing advice you can get. So we have one more. This is from Sarah, one decade ago, in Entertainment and Music: Movies. "Please somebody tell me about the warrior cat movie. I am dying to know if there is or if there is on or when," Sarah asks.

LIZ: Oh, Sarah.

PAZ: Well, Sarah, I'm sorry to tell you. The answer though, from Jewishgirl1994, "As of now, there are no definite plans to make a Warriors movie. This was confirmed by one of the Erin Hunters on an author chat and posted on the Warriors site and the Warriors Wikipedia page as well." This is a quote. "'Oh, the fickle world of moviemaking. Well, there are currently no Warrior movies in production or even under consideration. The economy is not in a state to invest in a rather dark animation about feral cats apparently. I promise I'll let you know if there are any changes.'"

JULIAN: Oh, I really wish I had a timestamp on whether this was like-- when it says a decade ago, was this like--

PAZ: 2008?

JULIAN: --actually from a decade ago, or is this from like 2009?

PAZ: As they typed this, the stock market crashed. I love this answer because it does have a sources and the sources is just Wikipedia and WarriorCats.com. Thank you.

JULIAN: I also like Brambleclaw's answer, which is, "Unfortunately there isn't one, though I would definitely watch it if one were to come out. I wonder if I could write the soundtrack for them."

LIZ: Aw.

JULIAN: And then the same quote from the author chat.

LIZ: Oh, no. Morris says that there are rumors and that "it won't be out until at least 2011."

PAZ: Darn.

JULIAN: Well, Morris.

LIZ: Morris.

PAZ: Yeah. Yulie also says, "if one was to come out, it would probably be around 2011-2014."

JULIAN: The best part of that one is it's written 20,014.

PAZ: Yeah, that might be when it comes out.

JULIAN: Yulie really covering their bases there. Sometime in the next 20,000 years, someone will make a Warrior Cats movie.

PAZ: That-- I don't know. That might be optimistic, but we'll see.

JULIAN: I mean, do you count-- what critical mass of fan animations do you have to have before you can consider it a movie? Because if so, I think we've hit critical mass. Someone did the entire book of Into the Wild with Littlest Pet Shop figurines.

PAZ: They sure did.

JULIAN: That's a movie.

LIZ: They did Fire and Ice too, didn't they?

JULIAN: They did.

LIZ: Yeah, that's a movie. I don't know. Can we get like a dark CW reboot? Where they're all just like--

PAZ: Oh my God. Wait, hold on.

LIZ: --30-year-old teenagers?

PAZ: Doing a Google search.

LIZ: You wouldn't have to change the name. It'd just be Warriors.

JULIAN: Course. KJ Apa plays Fireheart.

LIZ: Maybe they can transform into like little CGI werecats or something. And it's supposed to be really badass and cool.

JULIAN: We already talked-- did we talk about this on the podcast already that the film rights had been purchased?

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: I don't know if we super went into it.

LIZ: Like briefly.

PAZ: Yeah, I have to do more research on that.

LIZ: It just sounds like yeah, standard like production hell for a book adaption thing.

PAZ: Yeah. Okay, my search for Warrior Cats and CW network has actually not turned up any results.

LIZ: Rats.

PAZ: So we may be on the cutting edge of this idea.

JULIAN: Do we know anybody at the CW?

LIZ: Or Netflix? I mean, there's that Powerpuff Girls thing going on.

JULIAN: God.

LIZ: Can we get some adult teens to play some cats?

PAZ: That's so scary to think about. Um, I guess that that's it. Those were the highlights of Yahoo Answers.

JULIAN: I did save all of these answers to the Wayback Machine.

LIZ: Thank you.

JULIAN: So they will be preserved for as long as the Internet Archive exists.

LIZ: Good.

PAZ: That's so important. Thank you.

LIZ: Josie, if you're out there...

PAZ: Please write in.

LIZ: You know where to find us.

PAZ: So that's it for us this week. I guess we'll probably be on a hiatus for a little while, undetermined how long that will be.

JULIAN: Yep. Still very unclear on how long that will take.

PAZ: Yeah, but we'll figure it out and keep people posted on Twitter when we know. Whenever we do return, we're gonna be reading chapters 15 through 18. So look forward to that. And as always-- I guess not as always. Well, our show is on pretty much every platform, I think. I guess leave a review if you want. Yeah, that's it. You can find the show @staircast on Twitter. And if you're Josie from Yahoo Answers, you can send us an email at Stairwaytostarclan@gmail.com.

JULIAN: You can also email us if you're not Josie.

LIZ: If you're not Josie, don't even think about it.

PAZ: Don't even try it.

LIZ: Josie only for this hiatus.

PAZ: So that's it for us for now. So until next time, may StarClan light your path. Bye.

JULIAN: Bye.

LIZ: Bye.

[outro music]

[stargleam-star]

Warriors Rewrite Pt 8: The New Prophecy

Quick note: this is going to be a short summary of all 6 books

The first book takes place seven moons after the epilogue of Firestar's Quest. Tawnypelt has just been named a warrior, her ceremony is late due to Firestar being away for a while. Firestar's kits-Squirrelpaw, Leafpaw, and Emberpaw-have been apprentices for a full moon. Squirrelpaw has Siverstream as a mentor, Emberpaw has Cinderpath, and Leafpaw is apprenticed under Ravensong

The Fire triplets have that special psychic connection that Leafpaw and Squirrelpaw did in the first books of tnp. This does not fade over time

Squirrelpaw is the one who receives the Sun-Drown-Place prophecy from Starclan, and is followed by Tawnypelt who wants to keep her out of trouble. They meet up at Fourtrees with the other prophecy cats who are: Primrosetail of Riverclan (who's been followed by her brother Reedwhisker. These two are Mistyfoot's kits), Crowpaw of Windclan, and Rowanclaw of Shaowclan

Crowpaw is lithe dark gray with blue eyes, Rowanclaw is broad shouldered and with golden eyes, Reedwhisker is black with amber eyes, and Primrosetail is blue-gray -the same color as Bluestar-with blue eyes

On the journey, Reedwhisker acts as the leader. He's a natural thanks to his mother being deputy and his uncle and grandmother being Riverclan and Thunderclan's leaders respectively. Leading runs in his blood. Tawnypelt makes a good second in command and keeps the apprentices in check. She gets along well with both Squirrelpaw and Crowpaw, acting as a referee at times. Though Squirrelpaw and Crowpaw annoy each other a lot they also end up getting pretty close by the end of their trip. Primrosetail is the quiet motherly cat of the group, making sure nobody gets left behind and that everyone is fed and warm. Rowanclaw mainly keeps to himself; he's more focused on the task at hand than anything else. Though he does find himself enjoying the new landscape and learning about the Tribe

The Journey cats still meet with Midnight, and still meet the Tribe to help fight Sharptooth. The Tribe believes at first that it is Crowpaw who's prophesied to save them. But really it's Reedwhisker; in this rewrite he takes Feathertail's place. The Tirbe prophecy says something about a dark colored cat, rather than a silver cat in this case. When Reedwhisker dies, Tawnypelt takes up the leadership position in the group with Rowanclaw's help

While they're gone, disaster strikes the clans. Twolegs are tearing apart the forest like in canon. Both Leafpaw and Emberpaw are captured. Leafpaw eventually manages to escape but Emberpaw gets stuck while trying to free other clan cats. He's made a kittypet and adopted by a twoleg family who calls him Ginger.

With all that set up, we start off with three POV's: Squirrelpaw with her warrior's training and the journey, Leafpaw with her medicine cat training, and Emberpaw with a view into the life of a kittypet

When the journey cats get home they urge the clans to leave the forest for their safety. Before they go, however, Leafpaw insists they find Emberpaw. So she and the journey cats work together to search Twolegplace and eventually break him free. The Fire triplets' connection is what leads them to find Emberpaw's location. Primrosetail is the one who comes up with the plan to bust the young tom out

On the journey to the lake, Emberpaw bonds with Primrosetail. He's grateful to her for figuring out a way to free him. Meanwhile, Leafpaw bonds with Rowanclaw. She's intrigued by him; currently he's Shadowclan's deputy, but despite this he'd gone off on the trip to Sun-Drown-Place. He claims it's because it was for the best for Shadowclan, and clearly it's saved them now.

At the lake, the clans settle in. Squirrelpaw and Emberpaw are the first cats to be made warriors in their new home: they're named Squirrelflight and Emberpath. Squirrel is named for her speedy trip to Sun-Drown-Place to discover their new home, and Ember is named for the path he had to take to get here (from being captured, to getting free from the twolegs, and to finally joining his clanmates on the journey). Leafpaw discovers the moonpool and is named Leafpool

The POV switches between the Journey cats throughout the books.

Reedwhisker has a POV for the whole of the second book leading up to his death. Then for the last bit of the book it switches back to Squirrelpaw's POV

Primrosetail's POV shows her struggles with the loss of her brother Reedwhisker, and the tole it takes upon their mother Mistyfoot and uncle Stonestar. It also depicts her being drawn to Emberpath, the cat she'd help to rescue and walked with on the journey to the lake

With Crowfeather we witness Windclan's civil war first hand. They're fighting over who should be leader: Ashfoot, the wise deputy, or Mudclaw, the stronger warrior whom Tallstar seems to favor. We sees Crowfeather's reactions to his clanmates turning on his mother. Crowfeather starts confiding in his fellow journey-mates, Squirrelflight and Tawnypelt, for support at this time. Eventually though, it's settled that Ashfoot will be leader, and eventually she earns her nine lives. After all of this is done, though, Crowfeather continues to meet with Squirrelflight and Tawnypelt

In Rowanclaw's chapters we see his struggles with being deputy, and his growing affection for Leafpool. Eventually the two run away together, only to return to the clans upon the urgance of Midnight. Thunderclan gets attacked by badgers like in canon, while Silverstream has her new litter of kits (who are Briarkit, Bumblekit, and Blossomkit. Millie does not exiat in my rewrite). Ravensong is killed trying to keep the birthing queen safe. Rowanclaw asks Leafpool in secret to move to Shadowclan when the fight is over, but with her mentor dead and no other medicine cats in Thunderclan she has to decline. Luckily, Shadowclan and Thunderclan have no idea about their affair, thinking both cats had simply run off from the pressure of their jobs. The clans remain unaware that they were together.

Finally Tawnypelt's POV shows her meeting with her father in the Dark Forest. At first, she's still mad at him for having her brother killed. But Mothwing, Sasha's daughter and Tawnypelt's half sister, convinces her to train with them. Growing up, Mothwing had always been sensible and trustworthy. She assures Tawnypelt that Tigerstar is making amends by mentoring her; he just wants his kits to be strong respectable warriors of Thunderclan. Even if it may not be true though, Mothwing believes it. So Tawnypelt agrees to learn a few things from the former Shadowclan leader, if only to hone her skills and to protect her sister. Eventually though, Bramblepaw comes from Starclan to stop his littermate from training with their father before it's too late. He reminds her of Tigerstar's evil, and helps her to see just how nefarious the teachings she's been receiving are. After this, she stops going to the Dark Forest. But later on it turns out Tigerstar and Mothwing have been conspiring.

This comes to a head when Firestar gets caught in a fox trap by the lake thanks to Mothwing luring him there. She tells Tawnypelt that with Firestar dead, Sandstorm will be leader, and she's bound to pick one of them as her deputy. Then it's all a matter of killing the new leader so both sisters can ascend to higher power together. Tawnypelt truly realizes now how bad being around Tigerstar has messed both of them up. The sisters fight, resulting in Mothwing being stabbed by the stake of the fox trap, just like her counterpart Hawkfrost in canon

Speaking of Hawkfrost, Tawnypelt has troubles with him as well during her book. Squirrelflight has been hanging around him a lot, but he's kind of a jerk. And not to mention Tawnypelt has feeling for the small ginger molly too. So the whole love triangle thing plays out with the three of them instead

At some point in the arc (Im thinking the second half, or maybe in the last book) the cats who'd gone on the journey come up with the idea for the clans to have mediators. This role is to help keep peace, and to remind everyone of how they'd gotten along during the trip to the lake. Each cat who'd been sent the Sun-Drown-Place prophecy is elected for this new role, since they're already used to conversing with cats outside their clans