#masc exclusionary

[knifeslidez]

does anyone else feel like mcrblr's got a kind of aggressive "boys' club" attitude or is it just me?

[uncanny-tranny]

you mentioned the "first reansmasc haircut" thing and i gotta say its not just a white thing, i did the same thing lol

I didn't want to be overly presumptuous because hairstyles are incredibly diverse, but... it's nice to know this is a thing we can share regardless of what The Haircut happens to have been ���

[luxiomahariel]

I admit that seeing the whole Talia Bhatt bullshit has been both kind of funny but also really making me realize how much TRFs have lost their common sense. I've seen so many of the big names who platformed Talia without an ounce of shame suddenly pretending they all knew this was going to happen. Which, a lot of people had mentioned already (her love for detrans women is explicitly brought up in her book- In a way that's really creepy at that). But these people were called hysterical transandrobros for daring to oppose her.

Now people are saying "wow I knew she was bad news, you couldn't ever try to reclaim radfeminism as a transfeminist thing" and things like that. And like, they had no issue with that a week ago. They're not even really talking about how horrifying is that she's happy to platform detrans people who vouch for gatekeeping transition, because they do literally think it's a positive thing IF it only affects transmascs. Their major gripes are about the fact they consider detrans women need to stay in their place as TMEs and that they can't ever try to compare their experiences to TMAs.

I'm sure there's going to be few people who are more on the fringes of this discourse who will realize that transradfeminism is really just unsalvageable, but there's also some TRFs that are kinda doubling down on how they just don't think there's an issue with platforming detrans grifters who think society makes it too easy to transition, specially with all the talks about how "all trans men are waiting to detransition and become hitlerites" or whatever crap they wanna say. And like, I don't think they'll realize this at this point, but vouching to make it hard for trans men to transition can't really be separated from making it also harder for trans women to transition. It's almost as if legislations that affect trans men also affect trans women. If one side is going down, so is the other.

But they're going to go through hoops and loops to find how much they can pretend there's no shared trans experience amidst trans people, I guess. And I think this latest discovery is really gonna just make it more evident which ones do truly believe this.

just to bring this point home, heres an excerpt from her book where she talks about Stone Butch Blues and how ~transfeminist~ it is that the main character Jess detranitioned:

this is the supposed future that trans(rad)feminists want? where the only gender is woman and they will justify detransitioning trans men/mascs and nonbinary people in order to do so?

trans radical feminism is as trans exclusionary as the radical feminism before it, but trfs dont care because its only targeting everyone thats not a woman 🙃

[honeyhotteoks]

Hi ^^ I know you don't do requests but idk if this qualifies as one, so feel free not to answer this if you don't want to BUT:

Since you put so much thought into analyzing ATEEZ when you write your fics, would you mind giving a brief rundown of where you think they fall on the dom/switch/sub spectrum?

omg great question and i do not mind at all!! thank you for asking~

thoughts on this can be found under the cut, but a little disclaimer at the top — i am only providing my headcanons, that doesn’t mean i’m right or that your interpretation of one of the members as something else is incorrect. i would say this mostly informs how i think they probably are and how i write their characters in my fic, but it definitely is just me playing around in the imagination sandbox please don’t take offense!

also when we talk dorm/sub/switch, i want to be clear that as someone familiar with actual bdsm dynamics, these terms are thrown around pretty liberally and far too often. by that i mean, someone who’s a little bossy during sex doesn’t automatically equal a ‘dom’ in the proper sense and may not be comfortable with that term. however, for the fun purposes of my fic and this ask, we’re going to explore theses terms with the idea that the members could have the potential for it, not necessarily that this is what they are actively doing / engaging in.

alright…… hard thoughts below for each member including headcanon, kink list, and what pet names you call him/he calls you. i’ll happily dive into more into any of the thoughts below, feel free to send me an ask.

one last note - i use the terms man, woman, fem presenting, masc presenting, etc. but i want to be clear i try to be very trans inclusive and queer inclusive in general. while i write the boys always in a relationship with a fem presenting reader because i am a cis woman, that does not mean i am saying they as individuals are heterosexual and only attracted to cis women. i have no idea, this is fiction, and i’d never presume their actual real life sexuality so strongly. however, i am more comfortable writing from my perspective, so if you see that in my work or in my headcanons below please understand it’s not to be exclusionary i’m probably just navel gazing a bit too much. in the pet names section i do stick to things like ‘good girl’ etc. that may imply sexuality but that’s mostly as a representation of my own writing canon.

hongjoong - switch, leaning dominant;

hongjoong to me is such a switch, but i think he takes naturally towards the dominant role. i think a lot of people mistake his demon line stage presence for like…. crazy hard dom though and i could not disagree more. i think he’s actually more the type to switch up based on his partner’s needs and wants, but most often and most comfortably fills a dom role. however, in this dom role i see him far more as a service dom or soft dom, i don’t think with what we know about hongjoong as a person and how he interacts with the world around him he would be much of a hard dom that actually wanted to inflict hard rules or even dip into sadism. the most i could see is when his partner is being bratty or when he’s playfully jealous he would spank a bit or use teasing words to get his partner to say something in response. i think all in all, he’s the type to want to make his partner feel good, but he enjoys being in control and would want to give his partner instructions as a natural leader in that way. he could give up control to the right person, but i just think that’s a little less natural for him.

kinks -> brat taming, praise and degradation used interchangeably, overstimulation, voyeurism, voice kink, guided masturbation, toys toys toys, exhibitionism (he’s putting the lush in you at dinner that’s all i’m saying)

call him -> baby, joong, sir (playfully, less strict), daddy (to tease him he’ll tell you to stop but you can see he kind of likes it)

calls you -> darling, baby, honey, love, gorgeous

seonghwa - switch, gender dependent;

seonghwa is so interesting to me because i feel like his potential suits the whole spectrum. i have written him many different ways and see him many different ways, and so often it feels right, he’s a true chameleon. that’s why i think he is a switch, but i’m saying gender dependent because i think he likely takes more naturally to one direction depending on the gender presentation of the partner he is with. no hard and fast rules here, obviously everyone is unique, but as a general rule i’d say that with women/fem presenting people he skews more dominant, and with men/masc presenting people he skews more submissive. that being said, exceptions exist and i could see him going either way on that sliding scale dependent on partner. i would say for submisssive he would be the type to service, begging to pleasure his partner and enjoying the total submission of that headspace, potentially even enjoying some elements of restraint or pain on himself. for his dominant side, i think out of anyone in ateez he has the true potential for hard dom sadist, though that would require a partner to match him in intensity. i think he would excel in role playing and slipping into a true dominant persona, controlling his submissive entirely (within the bedroom and perhaps a little outside it), and would be able to manage the intense dynamics of sadomasochism well from delivering pain to exploring limits to very tender aftercare.

kinks -> sadomasochism, impact play, breath play, sensory deprivation (blindfolds, headphones), restraints (of all kinds), guided masturbation/instruction, rough sex, throat fucking, breeding, lactation, heels, exhibitionism, voyeurism

call him -> baby, hwa, love, sir or master (for hard scenes), daddy/mommy (roleplay scenes specifically)

calls you -> jagiya, darling, love, angel, sweet girl, good girl, my baby, my babygirl, pretty thing, pet (for hard scenes), mommy (when he’s subbing or when he’s playing into breeding kink as a dom)

yunho - dominant, soft dom with hard dom potential;

first of all, this man is my ult bias and i could write a novel about this, i’m trying to restrain myself. if anyone wants unfettered yunho thoughts lmk…… but truly, and i will die on this hill, while the sub yunho agenda is cute i just do not buy it. this man is 100% dominant, it’s just a question of where he falls on that dominance scale. i think there’s a lot of evidence for this that i can get into in a separate post, but my headcanon is that he’s a classic soft dom at least as a baseline. he’s the kind of dom who considers himself a guiding hand to his submissive. he’s caring, thoughtful, always anticipating needs and clearing the path for his submissive, and in bed that means he’s providing all of the opportunities for his submissive to explore within the safe bounds of his control. however, with the right person i think he has the real potential to reach hard dom levels where he is experimenting with degradation, some amount of pain play (though i do think full sadism is a bit far for him), bondage and control, and playing with pleasure from a denial and overstim angle. he’s also very clearly traditional in many aspects, and while i am not sitting here saying that means he’s sexist (absolutely not) i do think that means he would be turned on by more traditional elements. i.e. his partner in skirts, heels, lingerie, etc. i think with the right partner that also opens up his ability to play with different kinks and dynamics that might fall into that like free use, breeding, etc.

kinks -> rigging/shibari, edging/orgasm denial, pleasure/overstimulation, praise, degradation, breeding and pregnancy, impact play (spanking), restraints (mostly body weight or ropes), free use, fingering (his hands are we fr), if giving head is a kink then consider him a wet pussy enjoyer this man has an oral fixation watch his tongue, omorashi, corruption, breath play, somno, cockwarming, size kink/size training, throat fucking

call him -> yunho, yunnie (when bratting), baby, babe, sir, daddy

calls you -> baby, sweetheart, babygirl, good girl, pretty/pretty girl, pup/puppy (this is self indulgent don’t look at me), all variations with ‘my’ i.e. my pretty girl

yeosang - dominant, pleasure dom/service dom;

yeosang to me is such a sleeper dom. i think he’s hard to read in general, but after years of paying attention to him as i tried to write him, to me he really reads as more of a dominant in a sexual relationship, but definitely from the pleasure/service side of things. i don’t know that he would want to really control aspect’s of his submissive’s life outside the bedroom or perceive himself necessarily to be some kind of guiding figure or punishing figure, but i do think he would relish in giving his submissive pleasure and relief. i think yeosang would want to be the type of partner his submissive could just collapse into at the end of the day and receive whatever kind of care they need. he’s quietly making tea, he’s reminding you to drink your water, he’s easing you into bed with a massage and letting you forget the day as he takes care of you completely. i think in some extremes that leads to him not even really thinking about his own pleasure, he seeks to service his partner and that alone makes him happy. i can see him being the kind of dom who teases a little, but from a kind angle, and just knowing how soft and innocent ateez members perceive him to be, i don’t think there would be much room for meanness or pain with him.

kinks -> edging (cutely), overstimulation / pleasure play, lots of toys with him, guided masturbation / instructions, voyeurism, lingerie, heels, nylons, cockwarming, nipple play, body worship, oral (giving)

call him -> baby, yeosangie/sangie, yeo, sir (when he’s guiding)

calls you -> baby, sweetheart, my love, my girl, honey

san - dominant, soft dom, pleasure lean;

this man is a giver. i cannot express this enough, which is why i added the pleasure lean. i actually think he’s quite similar to yunho in the sense that he’s rather traditional, and within the bounds of at least a het relationship, would take his position as the man of the relationship very seriously. yunho and san both are the types of guys who would spoil their partner, and like being the caretaker, however i think in san’s case he would enjoy the pleasure angle far more than anything else and would not be comfortable with engaging in harder aspects of play with his partner. i truly think if you watch the way he caretakes it’s much softer, and if you listen to the way he speaks about women it’s far more from the angle of protector. my gut says you’d have to convince this man to spank you, so just naturally he falls into the soft dom role of guiding hand plus pleasure dom where he’s focused heavily on delivering pleasure and guiding his submissive through that pleasurable experience. i think he’s the type to set up a really romantic scene - rose petals on the bed, warm bath, champagne, etc. and just worship his partner for hours on end. he of course is going to fuck his partner eventually, but good god does he want to just spend so long touching and massaging and getting every little ounce of pleasure out of them first.

kinks -> body worship, oil/wax, pleasure/overstimulation, breeding, praise, anal, if fingering is a kink he’s got it he wants to see you squirt, cuckholding, voyerism, exhibitionism (light, the thought someone might hear not see necessarily)

call him -> sannie, san, baby, daddy (when the time is right)

calls you -> jagi/jagiya, yeobo (when married), honey, love, darling, sweetheart, my babygirl (casually, cutely), my girl, my wife, etc.

mingi - switch, gender dependent with a sub lean;

mingi… mingi… mingi. this man is such a mystery and yet wears his heart on his sleeve. similar to seonghwa i say he’s a switch but it kind of depends on the gender presentation of his partner. i think you can see this in the ways mingi interacts with the world. with women in general i see him turn on the swagger, and lean at least on the surface a bit more dominant, i could see him slotting into the role of taking the lead quite easily. with men, particularly with yunho though, you can see that he gets much softer, whinier, giggly, and truly has the potential to be submissive. my real guess is that he is a submissive leaning person regardless of gender, but it comes more naturally to him with a man (especially one as obviously dominant as yunho), that being said, with the right female/fem presenting partner, i think he could easily be submissive there too if that partner was properly leading the situation. i could see him being the begging type, pleading with his dominant to service them, and happy to really let himself sink into that headspace. but if he’s with a partner that needs him to step up and take the lead, i think he’d happily do that too which is why i think he’s very switchy.

kinks -> body worship, impact play (spanking specifically), throat fucking (giving and receiving), sensory deprivation, anal, oral (ride his face), lactation, humiliation

call him -> baby, babe, sweet boy, good boy, baby boy, and any variation with “my”, plus we all know princess is in there.

calls you -> babe, cutie, sweetheart (rare, if he’s feeling mega tender), goddess (when subbing), mommy (when super subbing)

wooyoung - true switch;

this man is the switchiest switch i’ve ever seen and i cannot accept anything less. he’s such a brat, but i want to emphasize that i think that means he could be bratty from either the dom or sub position and it’s entirely dependent on his partner. i think wooyoung is the type that bends himself for someone else to be accommodating, and honestly i see a lot of myself in him and vice versa, and we have very similar star charts so stay with me here. i don’t mean that in a negative way of course, but what i think wooyoung excels at is reading people and adjusting to their needs, so i think this would translate into the bedroom too. i think he’s the type to step up and lead if needed but the minute his partner takes a firmer hand he’s letting that shit roll and seeing where it goes. it makes him exceptionally fun to write tbh. i think wooyoung when being more dominant would be the teasing type, making playful fun of his partner while he delivers pleasure, almost goading them into coming. and i think when being submissive he rolls right into whining - the type to beg to come but listen attentively if their partner wanted to edge him. i think would be the perfect match for another switch because they could constantly be dynamic shifting and changing together and really explore so many aspects of themselves that way.

kinks -> oral (giving and receiving and make it messy), impact play (he’ll deliver a little spank but he’ll cum if you slap his cheek), visible cum (i.e. cumming on his partner / marking his partner), marking/claiming bruises and bites, cuckholding, pet play

call him -> baby, babe, wooyoung (but whiny lmao), honey, my boyfriend/fiance/husband (he likes the titles)

calls you -> babe (whiny af), baby, my love (when he’s feeling emo), pretty girl, babygirl, darling (when he’s teasing you), my girl (all the time he’s obsessed)

jongho - dominant, soft dom with hard dom potential;

in the same way that yunho and san read traditional to me, so does jongho. again, not in a problematic way, but in the way that he takes a dominant position in the relationship and seeks a partner who wants that kind of care. while i think all three of them would want a parter who is very dominant/in control in aspects of their career etc., i think being that person’s safe space to give up control is something they all want. so in that way, jongho reads truly dominant to me and is one of the only members of ateez to give the potential for hard dom, again, depending on his partner’s needs. i think he also acts as the guiding hand, he’s traditional in that he likes to pay for things etc., and would ultimately engage in softer aspects of control in the bedroom. however, if his partner really responded well to things like punishment and stricter guidelines, i think he would excel as a hard dom. i can really see him having a partner crawl to him, be waiting submissively on their knees for him, allow him to use them / benefit from actual punishment like counting spanks etc. and so generally i think while he may not need this kind of a relationship, if his partner did he would rise really well to that occasion because it comes more naturally.

kinks -> lingerie, nylons, impact play, breath play, free use, creampies, visible cum (marking with his cum), restraints (silks, cuffs, body weight), sensory deprivation, edging/overstim

call him -> babe, jjong, yeobo (if married), sir (for hard dom play)

calls you -> darling, babygirl, pretty, sweetheart, my love, yeobo, precious girl (during play)

[psychotrenny]

It's so funny when you get an anonymous ask or something that's concern trolling about how your stance of transfeminism (or sometimes even plain general feminism) is antagonistic to trans mascs, but they use terms like "transman". Because the conspicuous lack of a space really just gives the whole game away doesn't it?

Like despite their recent tendency to throw around terms like "Trans Radfems", their fixation on ideas around "sex based oppression" means that transandrophobia-truther ideology shares a lot more common ground with Radical Feminism (especially of the Trans-Exclusionary version) than the most cartoonishly man-hating "Baeddel"

[ghostboyravenight]

what do you mean shingami eyes is run by radfems btw? there's so many trans creators marked as pro-trans, esp transfems. and known predators/MAPs in the trans community are also marked as pro-trans. radfems are anti predator/MAP in their core tenants. i have a big issue with TERFs btw, but i think it's harmful to use radfem as a synonym for "transphobic person" or "transphobic woman". you need to believe in the non-transphobic aspects of radfem (abolish male supremacy, anti fgm, etc etc) because there are many women who don't like sexism and are transphobic but aren't radfem/TERF. it waters down the meaning of feminism for everyone. i'm really sorry about your mom though. that's evil what she said. that's not what a real feminist should ever think, TERF or not. cis women can be born with bottom growth too :(

The thing with the term “radfem” is that it has always aligned itself with TERF ideology. I’m sure there are feminists out there attempting to reclaim it into something different, but the foundations of radfeminism is built on the exclusionary politics of TERF ideology, and always will be no matter how much anyone tries to clean it up and repackage it as something else.

A few years ago, radfems and TERFs were making it no secret that they were the same people, but with the growing animosity towards the term TERF, they settled for “radfem” to hide their true, anti-trans motives and thus claimed that TERF was a slur (despite them being the ones who originally coined the term).

I don’t believe you can separate radfeminism from TERFism, because TERFs sure as hell haven’t, and the two ideologies work under the same belief system. Their exclusionary nature was born from decades of feminist separatism, beginning with the segregation of black and white suffragettes in the 1900s, then the exclusion of lesbians in the 70s, and finally at trans people today. It is an inherently racist, homophobic and transphobic ideology, and even if someone has tried to turn it into “trans-inclusive” I would not feel in the least bit safe around someone who still hangs around and sympathises with the most virulently racist and anti-trans TERFs.

With all that being said, if we’re referring to transradfeminists specifically, the majority of them are still exclusionary of trans men (particularly TMOC), non-binary people and intersex people, because again: radfeminism is an inherently exclusionary ideology that does not allow intersectional feminism within its framework.

This is what I mean when I say Shinigami Eyes is run by radfems, because blogs by trans men/mascs, non-binary people and intersex people are being disproportionately targeted just for speaking about our oppressions, while accounts that say truly egregious stuff about us are still marked trans-friendly:

Anyone excluding us from their so-called feminist activism is a radfem, and trans people aren’t safe around them. A lot of accounts marked green haven’t even been trans people, and have instead been cisgendered radfems using this extension to cause divides in the first place. TERFs are using Shingami Eyes to their own advantage by mass marking trans blogs as red in order to isolate them from their own community, and Shinigami Eyes is doing very little about this.

The point is, Shinigami Eyes is not reliable in the slightest. People need to start making their own decisions on what blogs to follow, because unquestionably trusting an extension that can easily be abused by TERFs, radfems and transradfems (or cis people masquerading as transradfems because that is also a strong possibility; TERFs will create blogs pretending to be a trans person in order to make them look bad to the rest of the community and sow the seeds of dissent) is going to lead to echo chambers being formed amongst transphobic blogs while blogs who try to talk about their experiences and oppressions, or who are simply focused on trans liberation rather than petty infighting, are being isolated from their own community.

Also, in response to you saying we can believe in the feminist beliefs of radfeminism without the transphobia, you’re right! That is called intersectional feminism, and it is the ideology I subscribe to. Radfeminism is an exclusionary subset of feminism, and transphobia is deeply rooted in its politics regardless of individual radfems trying to be trans-inclusive. Intersectional feminism instead focuses on intersecting identities and how those shape a person’s experiences with oppression under a cispatriarchal society. Funnily enough, radfems do not seem to want to let go of their radfem label in exchange for a better, more inclusive form of feminism, which is why I struggle to not assume that the majority of them still hold the same transphobic and racist ideas as their more vocal counterparts, even if they pretend otherwise.

[velvetvexations]

I've said it before I'll say it again but it's 100% the double fucking standard I see in trf spaces that fucking gets to me more than anything. Like I've been thinking recently about a post I saw a long time ago (so I might be remembering a bit wrong) with a narrative perspective of a trans woman in the Pacific Northwest iirc talking to a trans guy who was asking about why trans women are often on edge militant etc and how he talked about like forced pregnancy and sexual assault and she was like that's all horrible but (internal monologue) do you understand what it's like to be stared at in public and constantly guarded against and seen as a lesser being always all the time. And like the point was to be that trans women face a lot of things that are socially isolating and traumatizing that aren't always acknowledged or noticed and I get that and it was a good point but what got me and what has this turning around in my head ever since is this assumption that trans men and mascs Don't experience that. That people viewed as "masculine women" or just generally "gender variant thing that probably has a vagina" Don't experience the same isolating and traumatizing shit. Like all the posts that are like "trans men sharing tips about haircuts while trans women share tips about self defence" like the just blatant assumption that other people don't experience these things just because you do really gets my goat. Most of the things I've seen claimed as transfem or transmasc specific experiences are not specific to any type of trans person and I've seen multiple examples of the "other" type of trans person experiencing that self same thing. (It's not just trfs (regardless of gender) that do that. They've just been really loud lately and hense draw my ire) Like maybe I'm biased as a transfemmasc person but everyone who claims there are gender exclusive experiences are unimaginative and exclusionary.

It's very frustrating, I'm sorry anon. <3 You shouldn't be erased like that.

[nonconformityhub]

Mspec Lesbian Misconceptions

I still get exclusionary comments and reblogs on my friend's mspec lesbian infographic so I thought I'd make a sort of 'addon post' that answers basically everything!

Please check the infographic out! It's much shorter and it looks pretty

🌺 "Mspec always means that you're attracted to men"

⤷ Mspec is short for the 'multisexual (or other multi- attraction type) spectrum', meaning the attraction to multiple genders. Most folks who experience attraction to women and non-binary genders don't consider themselves mspec, but that doesn't mean that nobody can

⤷ As we understand the complexities of gender more and move past the 'only two genders' way, what counts as being bi or otherwise mspec will change

🌺 "There's no reason to reclaim old uses for the word lesbian from before lesbian separatism"

⤷ Lesbian separatists tried to exclude anyone that associated themselves with men or masculinity from lesbianism. This included bi people, trans people, butches and mascs, lesbians still married to men, lesbians living with men, and more. Some went as far as considering butch-for-femme relationships to be harmful. Why wouldn't people want to reclaim lesbian from a time before this ideology spread? See more here

🌺 "But bi women wanted to make their own spaces and stop using lesbian spaces and the lesbian label" ⤷ Obviously, some bi sapphics of the time would've wanted to be distinctly and only viewed as bi, and have no affiliation with lesbians, but plenty didn't. Implying that the rise of radical feminism in the lesbian community was wanted by all of the people they excluded is ridiculous. It wasn't a consensus

🌺 "Mspec lesbians just want to feel included in lesbian spaces"

⤷ You've hit the nail on the head actually, this isn't the gotcha you think it is. Mspec sapphics were originally welcome to use the word lesbian and exist in the lesbian community, and then they weren't, so some of them would like to be included again yes

🌺 "It takes away spaces that are just for monosexual lesbians"

⤷ There have been attempts made to create terms for monosexual lesbians (though usually people just mean 'not attracted to men' rather than monosexual), but the lesbian community thrived with bisexuals in it for a long time. Lesbian spaces are heavily dominated by monosexual lesbians as well

⤷ The real question here is why are you so keen to know for definite that nobody in your space is attracted to men? And what are you counting as 'attracted to men'? Are you assuming it based on dating habits? What label they use? What you consider to be attraction? Everyone views this stuff differently, you can't police it properly

🌺 "Lesbian can't be used in the split attraction model, it means no attraction to men at all"

⤷ Insisting that someone has to use 'homoromantic' rather than lesbian just because they're bisexual or vice versa is pointless. Not only is lesbian a more open and functional label (it specifies attraction to women and doesn't imply that the user is also a woman), but defining it as an absence of attraction to men is very 1970s lesbian separatist of you

🌺 + "If you're fluid between mspec and lesbian just say abrosexual", "If you heavily prefer women just say homoflexible" and so on so forth

⤷ There are probably terms that technically apply to you that you don't use because you're not connected to the label or it doesn't fit quite right. The same applies here. Abrosexual is very broad, homoflexible implies 'same gender' attraction to women, and we've established that there's nothing stopping them from using mspec and lesbian instead

[king-liminaxe]

Hey. Doesn't terf mean "trans exclusionary radical feminist"???

And aren't those usually...cis women? Your'e not cis, right baby? I could have SWORN you were trans masculine.

So for...someone to constantly imply that you are terf, they're kinda just ignoring your trans identity, right?

Wouldn't that be...kind of a transphobic thing to insinuate??? To push onto you? Ya know...like someone is doing right now in a certain series of coke rants about you on their account? Huh.

Mmmmmmmmhm. A very open and proud trans masc, my beloved. So so so interesting. Keep wasting your time, Wis. LMAOOOO

[sorin-sunchild]

It's honestly really upsetting to me that even one person was using the term 'transandroterf'. Calling us by the name of our oppressors? That's terrible.

Trans men/mascs using a specific word to talk about specific instances of bigotry aimed at them because of their specific transgender identity/ties is in no way aligned with radical feminism (radfems hate us), or trans exclusionary in terms of general feminism. We're literally asking for more trans inclusion.

True feminism already acknowledges the ways society negatively impacts marginalised men in specific ways for being marginalised men. It's not controversial at all to highlight how current systems do not work and who is affected and how. Despite feminist focus being primarily on women/womanhood, a good activist is always broad in her understanding of the topics she is against and for. This is not a new or controversial feminist take.

The end goals of feminism include dismantling of treating anyone vastly different based on gender and/or sex not simply 'treat women better'. That oversimplification of the issues that create sex/gender based inequality will never dismantle them.

Feminists know it's possible to improve due to not believing or enforcing in any way the idea that men are privileged simply for being men instead able to see the stereotypes and systems put into place to make that seem true, all of which can be challenged and dismantled. And thus they see the ways in which various men are negatively impacted by those same systems for not meeting the standards.

No feminist would go around wallowing in self pity believing the world really and truly does spin around the very concept of maleness so women have basically no chance. No feminist would ignore how patriarchy and misogyny affect everyone in order to achieve that wallowing and become stuck in her activism due to leaving important gaps. At least, no good one.

The irony is that pushback against transandrophobia as a concept often does parrot radical feminism. I've seen some deeply transphobic and misogynistic things being said but 'it was ok because it's about trans men' with no hints of irony.

But I still wouldn't call these people (if indeed they are trans) transfemiterfs/transfemitirfs. That's childish and in many cases, the parroting of terfs/tirfs/radfems etc is done ignorantly and can in fact be educated.

I would love more than anything for transandrophobia to be recognised and just left alone so that every talk didn't include a fight to be recognised, but like ace discourse before it I feel like all we can do is wait until a new punching bag comes along.

[this-is-intersexism]

being told that i am not allowed to id as trans(fem) because i wasnt assigned “the correct” asab first at birth and had a delayed puberty and grew differing sex characteristics later on (physical and hormonal) and developed weird genitalia (functional or not) + socialized both fem and masc but mainly masc most of my life yet rejected from both perisex cis male and female spaces and “to the unknowing eye” id be clocked as an “awkward stunted confused boygirl girlboy t-slur” but bc my documents forbid me from changing what i was marked as due to some doctors judgement 20 years ago i cant be “truly trans”

and also that i was simultaneously being “transmisogynistic” for suggesting to stop using/forcing the tma/tme binary and labels and to stop asking for peoples asab and genitalia in order to see if theyre worthy of being respected and listened to (i experience and have experienced transmisogyny and fetishization every second of my life, along with feeling alienated and isolated from perisex cis and trans communities alike) bc im not the “right” type of intersex that they can use as a gotcha

this is intersexism.

a lot of queer labels and definitions were coined without intersex people in mind. (and other identities, but we're on intersex-specific blog). it's impossible to pick a single trait that all people in any community would share without excluding someone.

defining transness by asab is intersex-exclusionary and weird as a whole (why should we base our identities on oppressive system that harms a lot of people?). and reinventing binaries only harms people who don't fit in binaries again, making communities that should be welcoming to us hostile to us.

[love-ardour-anarchism]

If I see any more "you TOO can be a lesbian and simply CHOOSE to not like MEN (ew)" content in any of these algorithmic hellscapes I am going to SCREAM

This is me saying this as someone who identifies as a lesbian AND for whom "lesbian" as a label says nothing about who I am attracted to.

You can identify any way you want, I love being a lesbian, I love calling myself a lesbian, I love the word, I love how it feels to say it and I love how it makes me feel in relation to how people see me and my radical divergence from any societal expectations to my sexuality and gender. You can be a lesbian if you wanna be but please for the LOVE of all thats holy or that you believe in, stop making lesbian identity some exclusionary shit-club.

I love being a lesbian and that has NOTHING to do with other people's identities. Bisexuality is awesome, pansexuality is awesome, multispec lesbians are awesome, loving men is awesome, men are awesome, queer men are awesome, transmascs and trans men are awesome.

You don't have to put down men, manhood, masculinity nor attraction to them in order to validate your own experience.

I love you mascs, transmascs, men, I love you and I'm glad you exist. You are valuable and amazing and lovely and you are worthy of love and affection. You are not lesser and its fucking bullshit that people try to take their frustrations with hegemony out on people who ALSO suffer from that very same system of injustice.

[viathewoods]

trans mascs, trans men, anyone who may use those labels or similar ones, im so so incredibly sorry for how some transfemmes/trans women treat yall. as if transfemmes/trans women are the only ones who are affected by transphobic policies or rhetoric. im sorry on behalf of trans women/transfemmes who specifically and outwardly exclude yall from speaking out about how you're affected or shooting down others for talking about how you're affected by such policies and practices. it's frankly disgusting and serves no purpose other than to divide and weaken out community. I promise that that behavior and exclusion is not indicative of trans women/transfemmes as a whole, but of the person themselves.

I don't claim to be perfect, so if anyone sees me peddling any exclusionary rhetoric unintentionally, please let me know.

tldr: trans mascs and trans men, you are loved and appreciated by transfemmes and trans women. im sorry for the actions of some members of our community, and i hope we can make it through this period of strife and oppression together and united.

[lavenderfeminist]

"I'm not a TERF. I just think trans women are delusionary men who are there to invade women space. See, I'm totally trans-inclusionist!"

Can’t be trans exclusionary when I include trans men/mascs in my activism! Male exclusionary would be more apt ;) But then I’d get accused of being redundant.

[i-identify-as-tired]

Hard to be a genderfuckery sapphic transmasc at my college because most of the lesbians are rather exclusionary and transphobic. There would probably be a lot of backlash about me claiming the butch label even though I identified as a lesbian (particularly butch) for like 4-5 years of my life before I realized I was trans and then for a while was bi. It makes it difficult to be a dyke when they police what they think that is allowed to be. Like guys, just because I call myself a man most of the time doesn't mean I'm not perceived as a lesbian 90% of the time I mean look at my haircut. I have a girlfriend, we are sapphic and a little bit Butch4Butch. Can I not just vibe with the gnc, sexuality nonconforming, and trans (masc and fem) lesbians? Please?

[gooobraghhh]

Hello, I just have a question.

I'm fem nonbinary/genderfluid (still trying to figure it all out and i want to be more masc but i dont have the ability to right now) but I was born a girl so I don't feel trans enough to use t4t tags but I love t4t stuff. I'm just worried that people will think I'm just fetishising trans people even though I am also technically trans.

I was just hoping for your opinion on this cause I don't know what to do or who to ask and I don't wanna just start using the tags without asking someone I guess.

Sorry for bothering you and dumping this in your ask box. Obviously you can just delete it if you want to

Idk I think gate keeping tags is stupid and you can do whatever you want, they are just like organizing tools on a website. Also I don’t think being exclusionary and saying who’s trans enough really helps anyone. Just have fun and be respectful, hope you can transition the way you want sometime soon.