#main character woobifying

[maglors-grief]

Can someone explain to me the logic of some people being anti-Targaryen but still supporting team green? I just got done reading posts and comments from people who say that hating House Targaryen led them to siding with the Greens and I just don't get it...?

The most prominent Greens (Aegon, Helaena, Aemond, Daeron) are half Targaryen, they have the traditional Valyrian appearance of silver hair and purple eyes, they practiced incest by marrying Helaena to Aegon, they rode dragons. Like they definitely acted more Targaryen than Hightower. These people do realize that the Greens weren't trying to topple the Targaryen regime, right? It's not as if the Greens were attempting to annihilate the entirety of the Targaryens. The Hightowers just wanted a Targaryen who shared their blood on the throne and their supporters believed that a son should come before a daughter.

I'm just genuinely confused about the people who passionately hate House Targaryen but yet they like and support the half Targaryen characters who committed some of the worst war crimes during the Dance. Make it make sense because I am baffled. Am I just not getting something?

[aliusfrater]

don't piss me the fuck off

[mandalora]

Stolen from amidonexor, no one asked me either

[cherryberg]

they were right. woobification that pisses you off so bad you’re going to kill everyone

[dakrapatops]

one of the problems with supernatural (the writing, but also the fandom) is that most if not all characters are seen as accessories to the main three guys. not even the main three sometimes! sometimes its literally just 'dean and cas are the only characters with depth in the show and everyone else is there to compliment them in some shape or form'. i dont mean that in a 'ohh why was the brothers show only about the brothers' way, i mean it in a 'the fandom doesnt really view any characters other than sam, dean, or cas, as capable of existing for themselves in a way that is not them being cardboard cutouts that stand near the main three guys'. i have seen some absolutely godawful takes on this webbed site and the main theme between them all is that no-one views anyone except tfw as a person with autonomy, and that anyone other than tfw is one-dimensional and disposable.

[wutheringmights]

What's your beef with fanon warriors?

This is 100% on me, but basically I just have such a specific way that I like Warriors that any alternate interpretations turns me away.

I don't even want him to be CTB-esque all the time. But when I see interpretations where he's born rich or Linkle is his twin, it turns me off. Then he gets flanderized into someone who only cares about his looks. Which, no?

Most of all, the really unique thing about him is that he has significant personality faults unlike any of the other boys. And all of them get smoothed over for the sake of just making him a protective old brother figure or a helpless victim.

[sansaemmabuffy]

People who think Better Call Saul was the best show ever are an automatic red flag for me

[paradesgoby]

kinda funny that despite dean being my favourite character in jadoat and by far the most relatable, i cannot write in his POV. he's a fucking mystery to me.

[ganondorf]

the thing is so many people try so hard to "understand" ganondorf but in order to do that you have to acknowledge that

1. loz is imperialist and orientalist in its themes

2. its narrative in some games functions more as propaganda rather than any sort of fairy tale-esque fantasy story

that is to say the orientalist themes wrt to ganondorf start when they decided to take the main antagonist, originally only a non-human monster, and portray him as a man from the desert with every possible caricaturization

and, a lot of the way that the hylian monarchy is portrayed is based on both medieval europe and japanese myth — the latter especially embodying the "divine emperor" ideology, which was something that was often utilized to justify imperialist aggression from japan, by inculcating the belief that the emperor was divinely ordained to rule the world

and b. what i mean that loz narratively functions more like propaganda than a fairy tale-esque fantasy in some games, is that there is no coherent moral statement to be found. particularly in ocarina of time and totk (the latter of which is sort of a revisit of the former) ganondorf does not actually function as any sort of parable. which is why any attempts to analyze and determine his goals beyond "evil guy from the desert wants to steal our grass" hits a dead end. you can't determine any sort of moral statement or anything about ganondorf's actual character just from looking at the source material alone. which is why so many people who analyze these things often come to these conclusions — not because we're trying to "defend" or ""woobify"" ganondorf, but because the writing in loz often makes it hard to come to any other conclusion with him besides this "fear of the other," that the demon from the desert will ruin everything you know and love

i'm quoting someone else on this but ganondorf as portrayed in canon is only whatever he needs to be in order to justify the fantasy of killing him

[delionhearts]

SAY IT LOUDERRRRRR

Ok guys I'm gonna be honest with you. I've seen some takes and I think some of you're doing too much. I'm saying this with all due respect. Let's not make things up. It's great that you want to discuss Armand's trauma bcuz fr, you SHOULD, there's a lot of space to discuss the nuances and seeds that the production planted. But what happened in Magnus's tower (post-trial) ain't about him.

This scene is about >Louis punishing Lestat< using Armand bcuz thinks he sentenced their Claudia to death. The cast already talked about this in the final credits. Armand being just an instrument in this silent war between loustat is something you could/should bring to the table ☝️ but yall went straight to Lestat's line like you want to change what is going on and ignored this very interesting aspect.

The "enjoy him" line is the most spontaneous one for someone watching your ex trying pathetically to make you jealous/feel bad. And he was talking to LOUIS. Oh, you want to spend the rest of you life with him? Okayyyy then have fun. He's all yours girl. He's YOUR problem now. ✨ Armand was tense af bcuz he knows Lestat can tell the truth anytime, expose all his bullshit ✨. It's not only OBVIOUS but I'm pretty I saw the cast/Assad talking about this.

Why tf are these people trying to make THIS line about Armand's SA? We have so many opportunities for doing it. Like EXPLICIT moments lines. Mf just killed Claudia and shamelessness acting in this scene like he didn't try to kill Louis too. AND that he didn't torture Lestat and put his ass in his abuser/maker's tower, Magnus.

Let's be fr. Don't lose your mind overthinking, soldiers. Stay strong and sane. That's all.

[cinna-wanroll]

The Twinkification of Obi-Wan Kenobi

Hi everyone! I have emerged from the abyss to posit an opinion and analysis about something that has been ongoing in my corner of the fandom for some time now and I just wanted to share my thoughts. Please note that this is not meant to be a call-out post. If you have made references to Obi-Wan being a twink, we are cool, we simply have a difference of opinion! As always this blog is an open space where people from across the fandom are welcomed and loved.

With that being said:

The Co-Opting of "Twink"

It isn't uncommon to come across the term "twink" nowadays while scrolling the social medias. In fact, there are several videos referencing men, both real and fictional, using "twink" as a kind of affectionate endearment.

Is there a big, beefy man who shows his emotions in your favorite TV show? Chances are he has been called a twink.

Looking at a cute post of a straight couple? There is a chance the woman has captioned her post with: I love my twink boyfriend! :)

Is there a trans man on your for you page? Peer in the comments: chances are he, too, has people teeming in his comments to call him a twink.

Let us be clear: this is not what the word "twink" means.

The term "twink" is a queer term that has become so mangled and co-opted by cis, straight people (especially women) that it has become misused across the internet. So what is it, exactly? "Twink" is a queer identifier. Traditionally, the term refers to gay men who are:

Thin

Not very muscular

Not hairy

Young

Of course, there is always room for nuance. Also, there are so many layers to this conversation I have not and will not address fully. However, the main purpose of this conversation is to discuss its relation to Obi-Wan Kenobi.

So You Want to Woobify a Warrior

Most of the time when I see someone refer to Obi-Wan as a twink, it is in reference to mid-thirties, mid or post-war Obi-Wan. I am not going to address sexuality here because I am a firm believer in allowing people their interpretations of characters' sexualities. Instead, here are some photos of Obi-Wan Kenobi during and a bit after the era previously mentioned, and of his actor, Ewan McGregor:

Here are some things of note: Ewan and Obi-Wan are not especially petite. They are muscular, hairy, and visibly middle-aged. Or at least, visibly older than 20s.

In Karen Miller's Wild Space, Bail Organa throws up in his hands out of fear when Obi-Wan is having hallucinations and moves to attack him.

In Christie Golden's Dark Disciple, he punches a droid in the face and it stumbles back.

My point here is that Obi-Wan is intimidating. He underwent years of rigorous training, fought in battle after battle, and is an expert in martial arts. The chances of him escaping that with the appearance of being boyish, early 20s, skinny, and not muscular seem... slim. War does not typically have anti-aging effects.

I once saw someone on this app make a point that because Obi-Wan is portrayed as the more intuitive and emotionally regulated character in contrast to Anakin's brash violence, he is perceived as more feminine. Therefore, he is more "coddleable." And, furthermore, the "feminine" narrative lends itself to the stereotypical parts of the label of twink. (Again, there is a deeper conversation to be had there. I am generalizing).

Unless Obi-Wan has been extensively malnourished, shaved, and de-aged, I don't see sense in seeing him as a twink.

The part of all this with even more implications associated is that I see a lot of this mentioned in relationship to Obi-Wan being in a relationship with Cody. There is a lot of comparison there, usually positioning Cody as the strong, indestructible warrior of whom Obi-Wan is either envious of or saved by. The racist undertones there are infinite and have been addressed and readdressed, especially by POC in the fandom.

Anyways gorgeous people, this concludes my thoughts, as it is very late. I am hoping to be able to participate in Codywan First Kiss Bingo, but I was hit with the flu and have been working diligently to catch up in my uni classes. I love you all and wish you nothing but the best!

[lgbtlunaverse]

Most annoying NMJ or JC take is when someone that dislikes them is like "oh you're a fan of him? *scoff* Well obviously you've only seen cql, where he was super watered down. In the novel he's a dislikable asshole and that's the objectively superior canon I'm working from instead of your woobified fanfic." Meanwhile your main canon is novel canon and you genuinely find novel Jiang Cheng and Nie Mingjue complex sympathetic characters.

[exocynraku]

nightheart is less of a character to me and more of a personalization of the writer's misogyny and male-focused mindset. he hates the people around him, primarily his mother, which he only does because he believes the worst in sparkpelt; not the truth-- which he knows, has a made-up, unrealistic issue (name), his relationship with another female character has singlehandedly rewritten her personality to be of service to him while the writers seemingly abandon her previous storyline, and he continues to receive main character opportunities (be in the sunbeam-frostpaw-nightheart trio, follow frostpaw to the COTP), and is adored by a portion of the fanbase who woobify him, spouting misogynistic and ablesist beliefs without realizing it for the sake of liking another sad, lost, male character in the belief that he is something "new" and "special" (which, i don't know how to tell you this, he is NOT) to me, nightheart is not a character, he is not a person. he does not have a personality nor a story. he is not a main character nor an unreliable narrator. he is not "coded" to be anything other that a mish-mash of previous male characters. he is not poorly written, nor written well. he is a written manifestation of the writer and editors hate, even if they do not realize it. previous characters got close (of note alderheart, brambleclaw, clear sky, crowfeather) , but i believe he is the truest embodiment. (unless, for gods sake, we get something WORSE in future books)

[vivziepopcriticalconfessions]

"I don't understand why so many people love Lucifer and consider him attractive or adorable. He is annoying as fuck, his jokes are unfunny, and his character is such an uninteresting woobified twist of the Lucifer mythos, plus he takes a shitton of screentime away from Charlie who is supposed to be the main character"

[boymeetsluve]

Another strange solangelo hc that I’ve seen creeping around (though less than about a year ago, the world is healing) is Will getting the shovel talk? How on earth did you all see a character that, even if we erase 90% of his actual personality, is described as a Healer and was the only person actually trying to reason with Octavian as his most Unwell and decide anyone would see him as a threat. Especially because the 7+Reyna are usually tasked with giving the talk?

First and foremost, Will saved Annabeth’s life back in Manhattan. There is NO WAY that Percy “Annabeth is my mortal tether” Jackson would forget that fact. And neither would Annabeth plus we see them at least friendly with one another in TLH when they crash the Apollo cabin’s chariot bringing the lost trio back to camp. Also, I love Nico/Percy and Nico/Annabeth friendship but they are in no way, shape, or form close enough with Nico to make threats on his behalf like that.

The lost trio are largely the same. Jason is the closest but none of them are close enough to weigh into his romantic life. And they all must have gotten some level of familiarity with Will over their months at camp between Will being cabin councilor and head healer. There’s no way any of them would clock Will as anything other than a chill dude (which is how Leo describes him during their tour).

Frank also doesn’t make sense. He does his best to be chill with Nico but most of their relationship is through Hazel. Frank isn’t going to step in unless absolutely necessary, probably with promoting from Hazel (not that she would bring him into it). I think he spoke to Nico like 5 times across HoO he isn’t exactly on the front lines of the Nico Defense Squad.

Reyna and Hazel are often the main offenders of this trope and I find that they make the most and least sense. Yes they are most protective over him by the end of HoO but they also greatly respect him and his strength. They would never undermine him and his autonomy by threatening his boyfriend. They (unlike most people here) respect his ability to keep moving forward and to Handle Shit when needed.

I think the shovel talk trope is stupid overall so that’s probably why I’m so sensitive to it but there is no way it works with solangelo, you all just woobify Nico and are using the characters to be self-inserts to do things They Would Never Do.

[femmehaljordan]

You probably get this a lot but why do you hate Tim Drake? Like a detailed explanation. Not judging or anything just curious

Okay so. TLDR: both canon and fanon push him so much it gets insufferable and my some of my faves specifically are massive victims to it.

Probably going to be long.

First, Jason. My favorite character of all time from any media I’ve ever consumed.

Canon: there are multiple instances in Tim’s original Robin stuff from him AND others being like “Jason was reckless and got himself killed” and basically victim blaming a dead kid HE DIDN’T KNOW to make him look better. Like Tim literally hallucinates Jason telling him AND I QUOTE, “I killed myself, Tim because I couldn’t wait. Because I didn’t think it though” and this is just what I personally consider the worst. There was also a lot of “Jason was x negative trait that I’m not, because I’m better” Even once Jason came back there’s still a vibe of “Tim is better then Jason.”

Fanon: The insistence on making Jason either a brute who hates poor little Timmy for no reason, or making him Tim’s caretaker despite the fact they’re like two years apart.

All of it feels EXTREMELY classist to me tbh.

Next, Steph.

Canon: He SUCKED with how he treated her omg. The constant belittling and acting like she was incapable of helping and being a vigilante. Like even into her batgirl days when she was literally given Babs’ stamp of approval and was working directly with Dick and Damian??? Also he was a terrible boyfriend.

Fanon: she gets flattened into his dumb blonde bff as if she’s not EXTREMELY smart. Like does everyone forget the whole way she got involved with this was because her dad was kind of Riddler 2.0??

So. Misogyny.

Also Cass

Canon: now this is where the racism starts. Also ableism. He treats her as if her learning disability makes her lesser. Repeatedly acts as if she’s a child or animal. So double whammy of infantilization of Asian women AND disabled people.

Fanon: I have talked about my hatred of Asian Tim before. Because it’s both always pale East Asian, so people can basically draw him as white as well as falling into Asian stereotypes and there’s the addition of once again, making a woman a prop when you bring in the Tim and Cass are twins stuff.

Racism and Ableism! Yay!

The al Ghuls…..

Canon: oh God where to start. Chronologically I guess? Damian first. I have actually made a post about this before there are multiple instances of him being extremely racist to Damian. There’s the “on earth we call this a handshake” panel. where yeah he says this to a 10-year-old from a foreign country. And then there’s a part where he apparently has some contingency plan for Damian and Damian finds it. And Tim’s excuse is “his biology.” I don’t care if they meant that Ra’s was evil. Again saying that about a non-white child from a foreign country is insane!! Also every time Damian attacks him Tim gives as good as he gets

Onto Ra’s. My main gripe is the “sending his sister to assault Tim and get pregnant” RA’S WOULD NOT FUCKING DO THAT. Yes he’s a villain. Not that kind though???

Fanon: Damian is the “evil” “feral” POC who attacks the perfect white protagonist Timmy.

Ra’s is the evil Arab man preying (quite often sexually!) on the innocent frail white boy.

Like you see how that’s incredibly racist right??

There’s also some miscellaneous things like his general treatment of women, how Rose is written in Teen Titans 2003 (the comic, not the show) to harass Tim (racism and misogyny), as well as how fanon likes to ignore Babs and put Tim in her spot, the insistence he’s just so much smarter and better then everyone else, and the woobifying him and constantly making him the victim (ex: titans tower and the idea Dick tried to send him to Arkham) but I think this post is long enough already