#magneto is an anti-VILLAIN

[ablanktechpriest]

There is also the fact that Magneto quite literaly has always been mutant Hitler: Innitialy he came into being as a character because it would be garantued that if there was a gene that gives superpowers, some egomaniac would lose it and decide all those who dont have it deserve to be eradicated. This was later slightly changed with his retcon of being a holocaust survivor who thinks that non-mutant will eventually genocide mutants unless mutants get them first... which is basicly what hitler justified for the eradication for jews...

There is also the fact that he refers to mutants as "Homo superior" meaning superior human, or in german "Überlegener Mensch" which we germans would/did shorten to "Übermensch"...

He also on atleast one occasion he terrorised someone for not probing his workers on being mutants when asked if he would fire them for being mutants (the non-mutant just essentially said "i know the people i work with, they are good people, so it doesnt matter if they are mutants or not." tho aknowledging he wouldnt feel exactly as comfortable talking to someone who could throw buildings around on a whim (for obvious reasons)). Magneto's reasoning?

Claiming the guy is mocking him and really hates mutants. You can read the important parts of the interaction here: https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/8401482.html?style=light#comments

BTW: This almost makes it hilarious how the Sentinels came to be... as a defense for humans against the jewish man who wanted to eradicate them, with the issue that they immediatly went out of control... like the Golem of jewish folklore, meaning magneto KINDA is exactly the kind of monster that caused the creation of the golem to happen due to his genocidal behavior, talk about irony. (tho this was most definatly unintentional as the sentinels showed up a whopping SIXTEEN YEARS before magneto was retconned as a holocaust survivor or even jew afaik)

TLDR: Magneto is quite literally Baby's first introduction to Hitler.

And i dont know about you, but if we already have a hitler running around in the game, who even kinda spouts his supremacists stuff... might as well have redskull in it too.

Magneto is one of, if not the greatest anti-VILLAIN(s) for a reason. And he is also the Patrick Bateman of Marvel, with people idolising him because they dont get the point of his character

[racefortheironthrone]

What did you think of X-Men Blue Origins?

(I may turn this into a People's History of the Marvel Universe later today, so keep an eye on this space.)

X-Men Blue: Origins and the Power of the Additive Retcon

(WARNING: heavy spoilers under the cut)

Introduction

If you've been a long-time X-Men reader, or you're a listener of Jay & Miles or Cerebrocast or any number of other LGBT+ X-Men podcasts, you probably know the story about how Chris Claremont wrote Mystique and Destiny as a lesbian couple, but had to use obscure verbiage and subtextual coding to get past Jim Shooter's blanket ban on LGBT+ characters in the Marvel Universe.

Likewise, you're probably also familiar with the story that, when Chris Claremont came up with the idea that Raven Darkholme and Kurt Wagner were related (a plot point set up all the way back in Uncanny X-Men #142), he intended that Mystique was Nightcrawler's father, having used her shapeshifting powers to take on a male body and impregnate (her one true love) Irene. This would have moved far beyond subtext - but it proved to be a bridge too far for Marvel editorial, and Claremont was never able to get it past S&P.

This lacuna in the backstories of Kurt and Raven - who was Kurt's father? - would remain one of the enduring mysteries of the X-Men mythos...and if there's one thing that comic writers like, it's filling in these gaps with a retcon.

Enter the Draco

Before I get into the most infamous story in all of X-Men history, I want to talk about retcons a bit. As I've written before:

"As long as there have been comic books, there have been retcons. For all that they have acquired a bad reputation, retcons can be an incredibly useful tool in comics writing and shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand. Done right, retcons can add an enormous amount of depth and breadth to a character, making their worlds far richer than they were before. Instead, I would argue that retcons should be judged on the basis of whether they’re additive (bringing something new to the character by showing us a previously unknown aspect of their lives we never knew existed before) or subtractive (taking away something from the character that had previously been an important part of their identity), and how well those changes suit the character."

For a good example of an additive retcon, I would point to Chris Claremont re-writing Magneto's entire personality by revealing that he was a Jewish survivor of the Holocaust. As I have argued at some length, this transformed Magneto from a Doctor Doom knockoff into a complex and sympathetic character who could now work as a villain, anti-villain, anti-hero, or hero depending on the needs of the story.

For a good example of a subtractive retcon, I would point to...the Draco. If you're not familiar with this story, the TLDR is that it was revealed that Kurt's father was Azazel - an evil ancient mutant with the same powers and the same appearance (albeit color-shifted) as Kurt, who claims to be the devil and is part of a tribe of demonic-looking mutants who were banished to the Brimstone Dimension, and who fathered Nightcrawler as part of a plot to end this banishment.

I don't want to belabor Chuck Austen, because I think that Connor Goldsmith is right about his run actually being a camp cult classic in retrospect. However, I think we both agree that the Draco was a misfire, because of how the retcon undermined Kurt's entire thematic purpose as established in Giant-Size X-Men that Nightcrawler was actually a noble and arguably saintly man who suffered from unjust prejudice due to the random accident that his mutation made him appear to be a demon, and because of how the retcon undermined the centrality of Mystique and Destiny's relationship.

X-Men Blue Origins

This brings us to the Krakoan era. In HOXPOX and X-Men and Inferno, Jonathan Hickman had made Mystique and Destiny a crucial part of the story in a way that they hadn't been in decades: they were the great nemeses of Moira X, they were the force that threatened to burn Krakoa to the ground by revealing the devil's bargain that Xavier had struck with Sinister (and Moira), they were the lens through which the potential futures of Krakoa were explored, and they ultimately reshaped the Quiet Council and the Five in incredibly consequential ways.

This throughline was furthered after Hickman's departure, with Kieron Gillen exploring the backstories of Mystique and Destiny in Immortal X-Men and Sins of Sinister, and both Gillen and Si Spurrier exploring their relationship with Nightcrawler in AXE Judgement Day, Sins of Sinister, Way of X, Legion of X, Nightcrawlers, and Sons of X. One of the threads that wove through the interconnected fabric of these books was an increasing closeness between Kurt and Irene that needed an explanation. Many long-time readers began to anticipate that a retcon about Kurt's parentage was coming - and then we got X-Men Blue: Origins.

In this one issue, Si Spurrier had the difficult assignment of figuring out a way to "fix" the Draco and restore Claremont's intended backstory in a way that was surgical and elegant, that served the character arcs of Kurt, Raven, and Irene, and that dealt with complicated issues of trans and nonbinary representation, lesbian representation, disability representation, and the protean nature of the mutant metaphor. Thanks to help from Charlie Jane Anders and Steve Foxe, I think Spurrier succeeded tremendously.

I don't want to go through the issue beat-by-beat, because you should all read it, but the major retcon is that Mystique turns out to be a near-Omega level shapeshifter, who can rewrite themselves on a molecular level. Raven transformed into a male body and impregnated Irene, using bits of Azazel and many other men's DNA as her "pigments." In addition to being a deeply felt desire on both their parts to have a family together, this was part of Irene's plan to save them both (and the entire world) from Azazel's schemes, a plan that required them to abandon Kurt as a scapegoat-savior (a la Robert Graves' King Jesus), and to have Xavier wipe both their memories.

Now, I'm not the right person to write about what this story means on a representational level; I'll leave it to my LGBT+ colleagues on the Cerebrocast discord and elsewhere to discuss the personal resonances the story had for them.

What I will say, however, is that I thought this issue threaded the needle of all of these competing imperatives very deftly. It "fixed" the Draco without completely negating it, it really deepened and complicated the characters and relationships of both Raven and Irene (by showing that, in a lot of ways, Destiny is the more ruthless and manipulative of the two), and it honored Kurt's core identity as a man of hope and compassion (even if it did put him in a rather thankless ingénue role for much of the book).

It is the very acme of an additive retcon; nothing was lost, everything was gained.

I still think the baby Nightcrawler is just a bad bit, but then again I don't really vibe with Spurrier's comedic stylings.

[artbyblastweave]

i get that the birdcage leaders are various villain archetypes (black kaze is ms. Omar wa mou shinderu, teacher is the cat-petting guy, etc) but I can't wrap my head around Crane the Harmonious. Is she Slade?

Slade and some other guys. My read is that she's an attempt to model the Supernaturally Effective Martial Arts Trainer archetype in a setting that doesn't actually have secret supernaturally-effective martial arts traditions that stretch back thousands of years. Lady Shiva, Stick, O-Sensei, Taskmaster to an extent. The characters Upstream of all the badass normals and Martial Arts Capes. There are more of these guys I'm forgetting about. Also, I did notice individually the archetypes each of these guys are playing around with but I'm slapping my forehead that I never put together that the point of the Cell Block Leader thing is to act as, like, a gallery of different flavors of supervillainy, demonstrating the range of archetypes the setting can support. Acidbath as representation for the 2edgy4me late-90s-early-oughts gritty punk-flavored mass-murderers, Gavel as rep for their anti-heroic opposition, Galvanate as an analogue for Kingpin, Tombstone, Hammerhead and the rest of the Mob-villain set, Lab Rat and String Theory as two different strains of Mad Doctor in the Dinosaurs-instead-of-Cancer-Cures tradition, Marquis as the Classy Sorta-Baroque Villain who picks up a cult following and eventually gets longtime fans as writers on the character who push him into Noble Demon territory, Lustrum as the Poison-Ivy-Magneto type who increasingly gets written as Having A Point, Actually, Ingenue as.... actually I'm drawing a blank on this one. What the hell is Ingenue modelling? Manic-Pixie-Dream-Girl operationalized as a supervillain?

[paragonrobits]

thinking about how Magneto's iconic helmet in X-Men 97 is mostly not used at all in the entire series, and as he only wears it when he has a temporary backslide to his villain ideology (framed both as a desperate hopelessness that they can live in peace with humanity, and a fundamentally supremacist/isolationist ideology regarding mutants as superior to humans), the framing kind of suggests that his helmet is a sign of him being a supervillain.

When Magneto wears the anti-psionic helmet, he's way more guarded looking. It casts most of his face into shadow. It obscures him, leaving him ambigious looking, just as much as a viewer might be unsure of how much of Magneto's change of motives is entirely genuine or if he's playing a long-term scheme of some kind.

But he looks radically different without the helmet. He's... exposed, open and revealed. We see his whole face, and his hair; it cuts a dramatic air, almost a romantic novel's protagonist.

Magneto's helmet cuts him off from others. He wears it and hides himself, his intentions and his genuine feelings behind a persona.

He puts on the helmet, most notably, when in the wake of despair and hitting his point of no return, his horror at his inability to save so many of his people and obsessively fixating on the image of a young boy (who was so openly mutated that he couldn't live among humans) whom Magneto told that he would finally be safe, he becomes a living embodiment of vengeance and retribution against all humankind for the crimes that Bastion committed.

And when Xavier speaks directly to him, in the wake of the literal oceans of pain he suffers under, that's what makes him break out of it.

The helmet conceals, but it guards him against the suffering and horror he endures. He wears the helmet not least because he is not nearly as dedicated to his crusade as he appears. He doesn't want to do this things; deep down, he doesn't want to be a supervillain. He genuinely does believe that his world is a shared world, and that in his most wild of dreams, his people and the rest of humanity live in peace together. But after all the things he's seen, all the horrors he has personally suffered through or failed to stop, he can't believe its really possible. Magneto kills without hesitation or pity, but he doesn't want to.

He just can't really bring himself to believe that a future together is possible. Every single fiber of his being screams 'this will happen again, and it will keep happening, until no one is left who can do it to your people'.

And Xavier can talk Magneto into hoping otherwise.

The helmet serves many purposes. But one of them is that without it, Magneto would be unable to carry out his actions, because Xavier can connect to him.

[imposterogers]

Jewish villains arent new *points at magneto*

girl if this is a weak attempt at justifying the mcu’s antisemitism……………… I know the movie verse the best so let’s go over a few things

-our first introduction to erik lehnsherr is at the gates of Auschwitz during the holocaust. he is being dragged away from his mother, and his sorrow/anger triggers his mutation — the ability to manipulate metal

-a nazi scientist (sebastian shaw) points a gun at erik’s mother. says if erik can move a gold coin, his mother will walk free. erik can’t, and shaw murders his mother in front of him. experiments on him. turns him into “frankensteins monster”

-erik spends decades hunting nazis and shaw. we see him interrogate germans who escaped to argentina and call themselves pig farmers laughing. erik shows them the tattooed number on his arm and kills them. he tears a metal filling out of a swiss bankers mouth, who while “neutral” during the war, still kept stolen and bloody gold in his vaults.

the thing is, the x men movies didn’t shy away from antisemitism and erik’s jewishness the way the mcu continues to do (even the red skull was separated from nazism in the films). erik is a true sympathetic villain, bordering anti hero depending on the film/comic.

the audacity to try and say erik, a holocaust survivor who lived thru one genocide and whose mission is to prevent another (of mutants), is in the same category of whatever the fuck marvel is doing is wild tbh

[postsforposting]

Saw a post about the Logan backstory that DPW might be referencing. The bits I want to talk about:

Mysterio tricked Logan to slaughter everyone in the Old Man comic run. But that plot, at least to me, doesn't make The Worst Wolverine. It probably makes the Most Tortured Wolverine -- the story of a man slaughtering his own family with his bare hands because he was mind controlled. Which inevitably created a power vacuum so gigantic that the world basically collapsed as supervillains take over the world. But the title of Worst Wolverine should belong to the Logan that completely abandons his most important moral value: to be the protector. The title of Worst Wolverine doesn't go to the man who got brainwashed and killed without knowing. The title goes to the Logan who killed indescriminantly and didn’t want to stop.

That would be true if this story is about Jesus and God (anchor being) saving the world. But Wade isn't Jesus. He's anti-Jesus, because he's an anti hero. Not Satan, which is the opposite of Jesus, but anti-Jesus. Perverted Jesus. A Jesus who saves by killing rather than offering (after) life. A Jesus who doesn't offer eternal life, but eternal death: killing those who need saved.

Logan is not a failed, coward of a god, but an anti-god. Again, not Satan.

This Logan isn't the worst version of Wolverine. He's the perversion of that character, a perversion of God. God saves living people if they agree to join him; people are saved in the afterlife--ie, saved after death. From the worse fate of eternal torture. If the worst of a good person is someone who doesn't help when they could because they're wallowing in their own self doubt....

An evil version would be a villain, selfish, laughing all the way, doing it for kicks because he hates everyone else.

An anti version is one who does the bad thing for the right reasons. Reasons no one else understands or agrees with.

A Logan who wasn't mind controlled while he killed everyone, fully knowing what he was doing, and freely chose to do that. Like the way Magneto is an anti-hero, trying to save his friends by killing other people. It's the anti version of that if Magneto "saves his friends".....by killing them.

Hear me out here: Wade knows he's fictional. Wade's most defining trait, when he chooses to become anti-Jesus, is that he does not want to be a slave. He succeeds in avoiding Francis. But when he becomes Deadpool, he learns he's fiction--and thus controlled by someone else, by god, by us. That's also slavery. He "escaped his fate" only to not escape his fate.

He and everyone else in the world are slaves of god. God of that world deliberately makes people suffer for his amusement: blorbo torture, because blorbo is not real but merely a toy--a slave.

How does one escape that? Get written out of the narrative. To escape slavery by author-god, you cease existing. Die. Only then will you not be a slave.

Eternal death as salvation. He only kills people who...deserve it.

To silence the voices in your head that control you...the anti version of IRL Jesus's eternal life via death.

Wade does the same thing: he kills those who are suffering from god the most, those who are damned to the fate he escaped from Francis. Who are being made to do evil things, who don't have a choice in the matter.

Villains. Like Francis was going to make him do.

Deadpool likes this Logan because this Logan IS him: Jesus and god are the same entity, just as Logan and Wade are.

If Jesus saves those who are damned.....who does god save? Everyone else.

If anti-Jesus saves those who are damned....who does anti-god save? Everyone else.

See how you can say two different things with the same sentence, if only your assumptions are different?

What can you do if you're a fucking liar like Wade, then? Say one thing and mean another, just like a double entendre. Let alone what you can say between the lines.

Wade only kills people who deserve it, because the most needy are who Jesus saves.

If anti-Jesus saves by killing, does anti-god save by allowing villains to live? Protecting and reforming them, getting them better lives? Because as god he's responsible for that?

God thinks everyone COULD be saved, if only they obeyed. Doesn't actually reach down and free anyone, does in fact demand obedience. Anti-god....thinks everyone deserves to be saved. Thinks no one should have to obey.

Wade's a fucking liar, but so is Logan: he couldn't have them thinking he wanted to be there, ie sent them away when they asked for help. Did he say no when he wanted to join them and just wouldn't admit it? Or did he not want to be with them at all, which is an equal interpretation of "incapable of telling them he wanted to be there".

Did the humans come and hunt mutants? Whose bodies were piled up? Is that truth or lie?

Was it really that he wanted to save the villains from slavery, it was too late, and it was the bodies of the villains he's upset about?

Worst Logan's world hates him because he slaughtered his friends, who were beloved by the world. He turned on the Xmen for killing people who attacked them. Did he kill them? Or did he just leave?

He ruined his world and did something unforgiveable: I think he killed them all himself. Lotta kids didn't get to grow up because of him, yeah? If he killed everyone in the school.....

Told them they looked ridiculous in their jammies they wore to....keep people alive, to kill villains, to kill people who were enslaved.

He couldn't help trying to save people, being there when it mattered most. Nobody understands why he did it, as not even the TVA are privy to the fourth wall....so they hate him. He's their worst. He earned that title by their books.

But Wade gets it.

Look back at what Logan does and does not say. Sure you can read a "he's a coward" between the lines....but you can also read anti-god, once you know he's a fucking liar.

Edit: "got you, fuck face": this isn't the good guy you think he is, this movie isn't what you think it is, and neither am i. We the audience are the fuck face

I also think Logan tried to tell his X-Men that this was all fictional. They're supposed to be all about helping people.... But they don't ever rehabilitate anyone. God would be disappointed they didn't actually want to help.

[beestriker015]

Scarlet Witch x male mutant s/o

S/o met Wanda after he became the newest member of Magneto’s Brotherhood of Mutants when the master of magnet found and saved him from a group of anti-mutant hunters.

“Y-you saved me? Who are you?”

“My name is Magneto, I am a mutant much like yourself. What is your name?”

“N-nice to meet you Magneto. I’m s/o.”

He says while still shaking in fear from almost being killed moments earlier.

“You need not be afraid of me s/o. Unlike those barbaric humans, I mean you no harm. In fact, I have an offer for you.”

“A-an offer?”

“Yes. I know what it is like to be discriminated against by humans, so I formed a team consisting of mutants to fight against the mistreatment of our kind. I can offer you a home, a family, a cause to fight for. What do you say s/o? Will you join us for the benefit of mutant kind?”

After thinking for a moment, s/o nods and accepts Magneto’s offer, making the older mutual smile.

“Excellent, welcome to the Brotherhood of Mutants s/o.”

Now a part of Magneto’s team, s/o quickly became friends with Pietro and Wanda Maximoff, aka Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch.

Attracted to his kind personality while also finding the way he stutters really cute, Wanda quickly became enamored with s/o and would vehemently defend him from the more rowdy members of the brotherhood.

Despite having a genuine friendship with the two Maximoffs, s/o soon came to regret joining Magneto’s group when he realized his leader’s intentions.

“Y-you lied to me Magneto! You said we were fighting against mutant discrimination! What you’re doing isn’t right! Subjecting humans to violence and oppression is not the way!”

Needless to say, Magneto did not take kindly to s/o’s words.

“Do not lecture me about what is right! If you value keeping your life, you will do as I say s/o! Now, since Wanda and Pietro are so fond of you, I’m willing to forget we had this conversation. Next time you question me though s/o, there will be dire consequences. Am I clear?”

He tells the younger mutant in a threatening voice, causing him to flinch.

“Y-yes Magneto.”

Unfortunately for Magneto, both Wanda and Pietro overheard everything and have secretly shared s/o’s dislike of being villains for a while now.

“How dare he threaten s/o like that! I have half a mind to-”

“Calm down sis, I don’t like it either, but what can we do? Magento saved us, we can’t just go against him can we?”

Wanda turns to face her brother with a serious expression.

“….Maybe it’s time we do just that. I don’t know about you, but I no longer wish to be a member of the Brotherhood! I’m planning on taking s/o and leaving Magneto for good. Are you with me Pietro?”

“….Alright sis, I’m in.”

With that, the two begin working on their plan as s/o heads back to his room in tears, walking past his two friends without noticing them.

Later that evening, s/o is laying in his bed as Wanda enters his room.

“Hey s/o, how are you doing?”

She asks in a sweet voice, making him blush.

“I’m ok Wanda.”

Taking a seat on the bed next to him, Wanda wraps an arm around s/o, causing his blush to deepen.

“Don’t lie to me s/o, I can tell you’ve been crying.”

Shaking off his blush for a moment, s/o proceeds to tell Wanda what happened between him and Magneto, despite her already knowing.

“I really don’t w-wanna be here anymore Wanda. All the violence, the hate, this isn’t what I w-wanted.”

“I know s/o, which is why my brother and I are planning on leaving….and we’re taking you with us.”

She says much to s/o’s shock.

“B-but Magneto will kill me if we betray him.”

“No, he won’t. I won’t let anything happen to you s/o, I love you too much.”

“Y-you love me?!”

Wanda smiles and kisses him gently on the lips.

“Does that answer your question s/o?”

He nods as Wanda chuckles at his flustered expression before telling him the plan.

A few days later during a confrontation with the X-Men, Magneto is furious that his children and s/o announced that they are leaving the Brotherhood of Mutants and will help fight against them.

“You three dare turn against me?!”

“We’re fed up with being criminals! You may have saved us Magneto, but Wanda and I will serve you no longer!”

“Pietro’s right! You claim mutants are superior to humans, but you subject them to the exact same horrible treatment and prejudice that the humans are guilty of! You’re nothing but a hypocrite Magneto!”

She exclaims with a cold glare as s/o stands by her side.

“Y-yeah! From now on Magneto, we will fight to i-improve human and mutant relations, not further worsen them like you do b-buckethead!”

“S/o! You turned my children against me didn’t you?! I will see to it that your life ends here!”

He orders the Brotherhood to attack as Wanda and Pietro stand protectively in front of s/o.

“No one is laying a hand on my boyfriend!”

“Yeah! Keep away from my best friend!”

Wanda blasts several members of the Brotherhood away as her brother deals with a few of the others.

“I should have let those humans exterminate you back when I met you s/o! Now I shall rectify that mistake by ending you right here and now!”

Magneto shouts in anger as he goes after s/o personally, but the shy mutant uses his powers to defend himself.

(I never stated what s/o’s powers are so feel free to use your imagination.)

Once the X-Men join in on the battle, Magneto eventually orders his mutants to retreat while swearing vengeance on s/o for both his and the Maximoff siblings’ betrayal.

“You may have won today, but heed my words that the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants shall return to make you all pay! Especially you s/o, when next we meet, your death by my hand shall be a slow and excruciating one!

While the Brotherhood make their retreat, leader of the X-Men Charles Xavier rolls up to the three now that the battle is over.

“While Magneto believes in mutant supremacy, I dream of a world where mutants and humans can coexist peacefully. If you three want, you’re more than welcome to join the X-Men.”

The three look at each other before turning back to Xavier as s/o speaks up on behalf of his girlfriend and best friend.

“We appreciate the offer Professor, but for now we’d like to politely decline. Even though yours is different from Magneto’s, we don’t want to be part of a group of mutants right after leaving another. Pietro, Wanda, and myself wish to find our own way, but if you ever need us we’ll be glad to lend a hand.”

He says as Xavier nods in understanding while both Pietro and Wanda are surprised at the fact s/o didn’t stutter even once while speaking.

“I see. Well if you change your mind, you’ll always be welcome to join us.”

The X-Men leave as s/o smiles at Wanda and hugs her.

“T-thanks for always being here for me Wanda. I love you.”

She smiles and kisses him before returning the hug.

“I’ll always be here for you s/o. I love you too”

“Um…hello? I’m still here to you know!”

Pietro says before being brought into the hug by his sister and best friend.

“Sorry Pietro. I hope you know that you’re the g-greatest friend I’ve ever had.”

“Heh. Right back at you s/o.”

Despite everything he’s been through, s/o knows he will always have his girlfriend and her brother to rely on, no matter what the future may hold for the three mutants.

[tarisilmarwen]

Right, while I'm on the subject, fandom please learn the difference between an anti-hero, an anti-villain, and a sympathetic villain.

Anti-hero: A protagonist who lacks traditional heroic qualities and nobility, but ultimately works towards good or better ends within the world of their narrative. Can be pretty reprehensible as an individual depending on the cynicism of the story and world they inhabit (i.e. The Punisher, The Bride from Kill Bill, Batman in certain incarnations), but often develops more into a hero classic in more idealistic works (see: Han Solo, Wolverine, also Batman again depending on writer/incarnation).

Anti-villain: An antagonist who, while nominally opposing the goals of the protagonist, has a core of nobility and traditional heroic qualities, or understandable sympathetic motivations. Is a "bad actions, good motives" character but approaches the issue from the opposite end of the spectrum as an anti-hero. Again depending on the cynicism/idealism of the work and the character's actions may complete a Heel Face Turn and ultimately become more like a protagonist or hero classic (Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender) or make a slide into full-on villany (Thrawn, several incarnations of Magneto). Many Well-Intentioned Extremists fall under this umbrella, along with a lot of Lawful Evil characters, but whether the label applies to them or not depends on how heinous the actions they take within the story are. Generally there is an in-narrative "line" these characters cannot cross before their evil actions outweigh their noble or sympathetic motives.

Sympathetic villain: A villain who has sad, tragic, affable, understandable or sympathetic qualities which makes them pitiable and/or likeable. While similar to an anti-villain, and they may start out as one, the major difference is that this character has already chosen, or repeatedly chooses, to cross the aforementioned narrative "line" within the story. They are a villain who "has a sad", basically. (Examples include Darth Vader, Mr. Freeze, and Megamind--who as a bonus is operating as a Villain Protagonist.)

There is obviously some gray area and as I've mentioned some characters slide up and down the whole range and gamut depending on how they're written but I promise they are in fact separate categories.

[wisteria-lodge]

What do you think leads some people to prefer fictional villains and anti-heroes to the good guys? I've had this preference ever since I was a little kid watching Rugrats, thinking Angelica was the best. My favorites usually have that "edge" and it isn't based on sorting. Loki, Vegeta from DBZ, Jayne, Draco, Magneto, the uncle in Teen Wolf, Zuko, the Phantom, etc. Sometimes when a character is redeemed (Itachi, Zuko), I actually lose interest. If it matters, I think I'm a Snake Bird.

This is a big question, with a lot of potential answers. I'll throw a few out there, see if anything resonates.

Structurally, villains tend to be more active. The villain does a thing, and the hero reacts to it (tries to fix the problem, restore things to how they were, etc.) Since we like watching characters who want things, do things, and make decisions - that can make the villain a lot more fun to watch than the much more passive hero. Also, there's a lot more structural pressure on the hero to be - relatable, likable, able to carry big emotional beats. This can (unfortunately) lead to heroes who are kind of Bland, Generic Everymen.

Related to this - if you yourself are not your culture's idea of an Everyman, then chances are the villain might actually be a lot more *relatable* than the hero. A lot of the guys you listed are a disenfranchised minority of some sort. Magneto is Jewish, the Phantom is disfigured, Zuko is a poltical exile, Loki is an ice-giant (which counts.) Even Draco is honestly quite femme-coded, unlike Harry or Ron.

I think villains work really well as power fantasies. I *like* Superman as a character, but being him seems exhausting and unrelatable. But being that charismatic, powerful asshole... there's so much *freedom* there, it's fun to think about. I honestly think is why characters like Rick Sanchez and Walter White get such disproportionate amounts of love and identification from their fans. I think this is why a lot of people loved BBC!Sherlock, who is SO much more of an asshole than the original Sherlock Holmes.

Things like pettiness, cowardice, vanity, pride, short-sightedness, cruelty.... like these are such an important part of the human experience, and when they're explored in art it's often through the villain or antihero. You see a good performance of a villain in a Shakespeare play, and it's very - oh shit, I recognize those impulses, that's me and my grimiest and stickiest. Engaging with that can be a really cathartic, really rewarding experience.

[angelfirstclass]

Magneto: A Villain playing Dressup or Reformed Tortured Soul?

This is going to be hard one for me because I don't want to be too negative about Magneto because I think in X-men 97 he isn't the villain, but upon rewatching the show I think this question is viable. I may be accused of being a Romy shipper and Charles apologist, but I'm not really. I like Magneto in the show and he says some of the best lines in the show. But sometimes he says and does things that are kind of assholey am I right?

To start off with, the way that he introduces himself and announces that he's the heir to Xavier's mansion and the X-men. Did he really have to barge into Xavier's office and confront the team as they were bonding together playing basketball? He is so smug in that scene which is something I like about Magneto, his Alpha male strength and directness. It's hot and works when I'm writing Magneto fan fiction, but it is a tad presumptuous. His first reactions from everyone on the team is anger and suspicion and then he wonders why he's not getting a warm reception. He could have been normal and called or rang the doorbell or something, but it wouldn't have been as dramatic or as Magneto to come barging in.

The way that he says My X-men at the end of episode 1 is kind of smug and sinister is not? Maybe it's just the writers wanting tension out of that moment and having the readers shocked by Magneto, a known X-enemy inheriting everything, because at that moment we don't know if Magneto is going to be a good leader or not.

Then we see Magneto in action and he's playing the good guy. He saves a child from a busted ride and the Morlocks from the Friends of Humanity. It is shocking to the X-men but also shocking to humankind because of Magneto's past crimes. He enters leading the X-men tamping down his evil past and his more destructive methods of getting back at anti-mutant groups, but he is still Magneto with all his arrogance and his confidence and his strength of belief in himself.

Something that I actually love is the line that he toes the line between trying to be a good X-man and his feelings about humanity. He has seen so much that he is formed by those traumas and pain which cannot be so easily let go of. When he talks of not harming the Friends of Humanity members, the sneer when he says "sapiens" is pure gold. This Magneto is a tempered Magneto and we have to appreciate how far he's come. If it wasn't for his love of Charles Xavier he would be 1000 times worse.

It could be argued that other people might have made better leaders of the X-men, but for this season's storyline having Magneto play the leader was brilliant. He was just enough of an asshole to make the whole thing interesting and made the twist at the end more believable because he never really lost himself completely. You saw moments of him being potentially selfish, arrogant, cruel throughout the season which made him an interesting, complex character.

"My intentions here was not to cause drama or discord." Lol! Says the man in the cape and big M on his costume and the one who barged into the mansion without notice. Yeah, sure, Jan. He yielded to the UN, but not until after he proves how powerful he could be. A note to point out his that Wolverine talks about people being upset over all the things Magneto has done and "can't say I blame them" for being upset and I take this seriously. So currently he's trying to reform, but in this universe and timeline, Magneto has done some awful things.

The trial scene is really amazing. There are some great lines in it. The speech is probably the most compelling reason to want to trust Magneto. He is a great public speaker and he speaks of his past, how the oppressed become oppressors and that loving or being different will cause you to be punished. He is speaking Xavier's words and attempting to walk his past, but he must also acknowledge his past and the consequences of them. This is where I get confused or conflicted as I don't know if Magneto went too far or just enough or is justified or crazy. I don't know and I don't think it's something that the writers even know- like that is the crux of the show itself.

His sardonic wit is the best! "Oh to play by the rules and still they come for you." Yes. It's all going sideways and Magneto is not panicked in the least. He may be a lot of things, but dumb is not one of them. He saw this all coming and knew it was a matter of time that the extremists broke through and the judges would be deemed traitors of the race. It's like a part of him wanted things to get extreme, so the X-men would get to be on his side and see that humanity is not to be trusted and making nice doesn't work.

When asks if this is the high roads destination and essentially kidnaps all the judges, viewers are justified in thinking he might have snapped and gone back to his evil ways. We are surprised to see that he is walking Xavier's path and applaud him for that. He eventually lets the people go and asks them to not let him let them down and that's so poignant because we see just in episode 2 what Magneto is capable of and what he could do if he wasn't walking Xavier's path.

Magneto did a pretty good job of leading the team from episode 3 to 5, he is concerned about Jean, Scott, and Nathan and coordinates the team. He fights clone Jean or Madelyn and she taunts him with the line about a villain playing dress up as a hero. I think that line is so apt with Magneto because I think that his character arc is at the heart of the storyline. I wrote once saying that his relationship with Xavier was the thesis of the story and I also believe that Magneto's belief of Xavier's ideals and his own is also a pivotal part of the story. Madelyn had the power to delve into the psyche of each mutant and find their weak spots, so it proves here that Erik is self conscious of seeming to play the hero and most likely doubts his own commitment to Xavier's cause.

Then we go to Genosha in episode 5, where Magneto is king, literally. There are posters and statues of him everywhere and this all was his dream. Magneto is a savvy politician and understands making grand speeches or doing publicity stunts. Even other mutants at Genosha understand that he is the handsome face of Mutant kind and especially after joining the X-men and following moderation is liked by moderate mutants as well as humans. Even when he speaks to the group, he acknowledges that this was all Charles' dream and he didn't believe that it would happen. He is asked to be king and then he asks Rogue to be his queen. Episode 5, I think is tragically the peak of when Erik is believing Xavier's dream and thinking that peace is possible and happiness is possible for him as well. He is letting down his guard, accepting the King position, declaring his love for Rogue, trying to walk Xavier's path, be a good X-man, and etc. We know what happens next tragically however.

Everything he believed gets snatched and beaten out of him in Genosha. He tried to walk Xavier's path and it did not work out for him. He was already scarred, but this time was too much. He was kidnapped, tortured, and saw many deaths. He was already toeing the line before and felt justified in a way for committing crimes and atrocities and Genosha set him back to that way of thinking.

When we see him later, trying to persuade X-men to join him, EMPing the planet, attacking members of the X-men trying to stop him, he is traumatized and reacting poorly to Genosha. I don't justify his behavior, but I understand it. This is an Omega level mutant that has a track history of hurting humans for hurting mutants, so when a massacre hits it is not surprising that the mutant in question flexes his powers and gets angry.

What I don't know and am still on the fence about is how dedicated he truly was to Xavier's cause. Was he really a believer and dedicated to being a X-man or did it just take one incident for him to return to his ways? Also, how far is too far? Who is allowed to seek revenge or retribution? And to what extent? It is these questions that I think are so fascinating and I'm glad I don't know. These questions about Magneto are what made the show so interesting and complex and wants to make me see Season 2.

[chickenleafs-world]

Rewatching the original animated X-men series in preparation for 97, so of course I’ve also been seeing a lot of X-men posts. And, as always, I have strong opinions on what people on the internet say. Most of the time those opinions are “how did these people read/watch X-men growing up and not get that they’re the villains” because people are being bigots and are upset that their favorite heroes aren’t. But sometimes I’m stuck being frustratingly close to agreeing and my strong opinions are much harder to voice. In part because you don’t want to walk into the Discourse Landmine, but also in part because there’s so much to go over on the take.

Case in point: the “Magneto is right, Xavier is wrong” take, where my main problem with people is more the lack of nuance than the base take. And I know most of the people saying it are also doing it in part as a joke and get the nuance is there, but it still irks me.

Let’s be clear, in general, Magneto is not right, but he isn’t wrong either. Xavier isn’t wrong, but he isn’t right either. Obviously it’s partly dependent on whoever is writing at the moment, but also depending on which individual take of Magneto’s or Xavier’s you’re talking about. Yes, sometimes Xavier is frustratingly, harmfully liberal. Yes, sometimes Erik is doing the best possible for mutant well being. But there’s a lot of wiggle room with individual portrayals, and I think Xavier deserves justice for it. I’m not saying Magneto is just a villain, Stan Lee himself didn’t see him as such, but depending on the writers he can certainly be wrong.

Xavier is wrong when he focuses just on mutants with “useful” powers or conventionally attractive and human looks. He’s wrong when he puts the safety of bigots over the safety of the mutants they’re oppressing. He’s wrong when his only way of helping mutants is through the system. He’s wrong when he’s sending the X-men out to fight mutants more than bigots. He’s wrong when he hides he’s a mutant to avoid the stigma, even when the reveal would help solidarity and public trust. He’s wrong a lot.

But Xavier is right when he focuses on teaching mutants to love themselves and teaches them to control their powers and use them for good. He’s right when he says mutants and non-mutants can live in harmony. He’s right when he send the X-men out to destroy government/private property that’s being used to hurt mutants. He’s right when he takes out all his students, “attractive” or not, to speak up for mutant rights. He’s right when he sends the X-men to break innocent mutants out of prison/jail/unlawful containment. He’s right when he opens his institute to all mutants, so they have a safe place to go to. He’s right when he gives X-men choice and training for hard experiences, be it the choice to hide their powers or be open with them, to break out of jail/avoid arrest, or wait and go through an unfair trial for the sake of mutant visibility and legal precedent. He’s right when he finds places like the institute around the world. He’s right when he himself is on good terms with Magneto and works with him when it’s necessary for mutant good.

Don’t get me wrong, a lot of writers put Professor X as a filthy liberal. It sucks. Focuses on performative acts, letting fascists take ground for the sake of “civility,” and putting minorities at risk for the sake of optics, those are all bad. But sometimes liberal acts can be tools in the tool box. Voting isn’t gonna solve shit, but it can make it go downhill slower. Putting gay people in media isn’t going to end homophobia, but it will normalize gay people. Testifying before Congress for mutant rights might not be the flashiest or most effective way to get mutants’ rights, but it is a way to advance public opinion and slow anti-mutant laws. Just that isn’t good enough to beat the liberal accusations, but combined with the actions of some incarnations it genuinely changes their context. We can’t ignore all the times that Xavier has actively sent the X-men out to break laws and destroy government property for the sake of mutant well being. As much as we joke about the X-men being liberals, they usually aren’t afraid to break laws, break property, and raise hell for the sake of their people. And don’t forget that lot’s of “peaceful” acts of protest still cause disruption and still make a difference, even when it seems liberal on the surface, and can be organized by genuinely leftist people. Lots of Professor X’s portrayals could be genuinely leftist.

Likewise, Magneto is right a lot. He’s right when he says mutants shouldn’t be forced to stay in places where they’re being violently persecuted. He’s right when he advocates mutants fight back when bigots attack instead of just taking it. He’s right when he takes in mutants despite how palatable or useful they are. He’s right to actively fight fascists rising to exterminate his people. He’s right when he gives no fucks about the law when it comes to protecting minorities. He’s right when he creates a safe haven for mutants.

But boy, Magneto is also wrong a lot. He’s wrong when he says mutants and non-mutants can’t live together. He’s wrong when he says non-mutants are inferior. He’s wrong when he gets upset at mutants for wanting to live in harmony with humans. He’s wrong when he invalidates mutants who are upset with where being a mutant has gotten them, without helping them through the complicated feelings it brings. He’s wrong when he frames the X-men, a fellow mutant group, for his crimes. He’s wrong when he says mutants should exterminate non-mutants. He’s wrong when he thinks a mutant ethnostate is the end-all-be-all of mutant rights.

Erik is the kind of antagonist you get. He’s right on a lot of things. He has a lot of emotional appeal. As a (let’s be honest, gay) Jewish holocaust survivor, you know he’s coming from experience with his tactics. He genuinely doesn’t hate Xavier in most incarnations. But that doesn’t mean that in the incarnations where he literally calls for genocide, he should be let off the hook. Violence and resistance are important to most leftists movements, or even just mildly progressive ones. Be it a civil war to end US slavery, the riots at Stonewall, slave rebellions, or any number of revolutionary wars, sometimes active violence is necessary to stop the passive violence that minorities go through while oppressed. At the same time, it’s a fundamentally leftist ideal to believe in rehabilitation and the importance of people changing. And it’s also important to remember that genocide is bad no matter who’s doing it. Letting the genocidal versions of Magneto off the hook because it was “for mutants” is the same logic that lets Israel get away with how it treats Palestine.

I know that’s a lot of rambling to say something a lot of people already know, but as much as I love the “magneto was right” memes and the posts making fun of liberal X-men, I don’t want the genuinely leftists parts of the X-men to go unappreciated, nor the genuinely harmful parts of Magneto’s ideology excused.

[drifting-pieces-blog-blog]

A little Comic History and Important Question

Can you take the event out of the character and still call them the same character? 

There are some characters that are defined by their origins. 

Some are defined by the time in which they were created. 

Others still were defined by a single moment in their history in which a writer gave them a story that has become their very core. 

In the world of DC, Batman is defined by his origins. It is a story that DC has played with time and time again in various "What if" timelines and multi-world events. 

Is it possible to have Batman without the death of his parents? DC argues that this is impossible. 

Would Superman still be the same if he hadn't been raised by humble farmers in America with a strong sense of justice? (See Superman Red Son). 

Can you take WWII out of Captain America and still have him be the same American Poster boy? 

Is it possible to remove Vietnam from Frank Castle and still come up with The Punisher? What about the death of his family? 

Can you take the Jewish out of Magneto and still have him be the same Mutant Revolutionist? 

Taking a step back, we turn to the very origins of comics as we know them: 

Superman. 

Created in 1938 by the children of immigrants who fled countries that wanted them dead. Children that grew up with stories of ‘the old country’ and a distinct feeling of being powerless. 

Just a year later, we have Batman emerging in 1939. 

Even in America, Anti-semitism made it impossible to seek out jobs of ‘honor’. 

Comics had been created far before Superman first took his first step. Small funnies that appeared in little blurbs and papers that people scoffed at and considered unworthy of spending time or money on. Most of which were written and drawn by Jewish people who had no other career options than to seek out jobs in publishing and entertainment industries. 

So what was so special about the late 1930s? 

Take another step back. WWI ended in 1918. It did not bring the great peace and prosperity that everyone thought it would. There was a brief flicker of economic boom in the winning countries, but by 1929 the Great Depression had hit hard. 

Famin, inflation, and antisemitism was on the rise. Mass immigration to America in hopes of survival. Stories of those left behind were sent to the families settling in the New country. 

Letters filled with violence, poverty, and death were making their way to the Jewish Immigrants. 

You see, the Nazi party started in 1920. Many saw it as the savior of Germany and even people in America saw the Nazi party as something to stand behind with visions of greatness and superiority. 

Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster were the children of immigrants who read the letters of family left behind in Europe. Envisioning someone that would stand up for the little guy and fight fascism and Nazi beliefs, they created Superman. 

Superman didn’t start with great super powered monsters and villains. He started fighting neighborhood bullies. He broke up gangsters and terrible Slumlords. He took down corrupt politicians and eventual villains like Lex Luthor.

Bob Kane and Bill Finger were not far behind in the creation of Batman. A man who fought for justice and revenge. A man seeking to make sense of the loss of his family. While Batman wasn’t as dark and grim in the original days as he is now, he was still seen as a step further than Superman. A caped crusader of justice that used more violence than Superman tended to. 

Siegel and Shuster started a comic book publishing company that let Jewish writers have jobs as well as tell their stories in their own way. 

World War II broke out officially in 1939 and more and more comics started to focus on stories that spoke out against what was happening in Europe. 

William Eisner created "The Spirit" in 1940. If you aren’t familiar with either of those names boy howdy…. William Eisner, as in “The Eisner Awards”  are awarded for creative achievement in American Comic books. The most prestigious and significant awards in the industry. 

The Spirit was created out of Eisner’s heavily Jewish upbringing and often told stories that came out of his difficult upbringing in the slum-like conditions and severe antisemitism of New York at the time. 

By this time, WWII was in full swing, and despite what we are all taught to think, everyone knew what the Nazi were doing to the Jewish people at this point (just not to what extent). Stories of camps and death had leaked out and Jewish Immigrants lived in terror as they feared for the lives of their families left behind. 

America entered the war in December of 1941… Officially. I say officially because, as all my fellow history buffs know, we were secretly involved in it far before then. 

Propaganda had snuck into the comic book industry before America entered the war. 

In 1941 we saw the creation of Captain America by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby. Two names that came like a comet to the comic industry. We also saw the creation of Wonder Woman in 1941 (And you should look up that story because WHAT A RIDE THAT IS, but I’m not going to get into that today). 

Captain America was created as a direct response to what was happening in the world, the Nazi uprising, and the failure of America to step up and away from Antisemitism. 

There are a lot of stories about how Captain America is based out of Jewish culture and old stories. That Captain America is the Golem. There certainly are a lot of reasons for this. 

The Jewish Golem was created as a creature made to protect the Jewish people from those that wanted to kill them. The Hebrew word “Emet”, which means “Truth” is written on his forehead. Looking at Captain America, with a giant “A” on his forehead, it is very easy to argue that the A is the Hebrew Aleph letter and hearing him say he fights for Truth, Justice, and The American Way (The American Way part was added after we joined the war for propaganda purposes) is a fantastic argument for why he is the Golem. 

There is also a fantastic write up someone did on how Captain America acts as a Golem when he was first written and even powers down back when his mission is completed. If you are interested, I’ll direct you to that book if you give me a hot minute to find it in my stash. 

There is also an argument I’ve heard on how the shield is NOT exactly the American symbol that it has become in modern times. But that of The Magen David (AKA: The Star of David and symbol of Judaism and Jewish Identity) really means "Shield of David". A symbol of G-d’s protection. 

So we’re in the war, the golden age of comics, the rise of big names and even bigger heroes. 

What happens when the war ends? 

Well, the kids grow up. The comic industry is booming, comic books are becoming a thing, the Sunday papers now have the funny papers, and people that studied under the big shots are now old enough to start creating their own thing. 

In 1939 Marvel Comics was originally a run of comics with superhero features published under Timely Comics, founded by Martin Goodman. 

The Human Torch was the first on the cover. The original Human Torch. Not Johnny Storm. 

Oh… and Namor The Sub-Mariner, an anti-hero and FIRST Mutant. Created by Bill Everett who also helped co-create Daredevil with Stan Lee later on. 

What’s that in the background? Oh… Just a Nazi flag so he can beat up all the Nazi. 

Namor returns in 1962 in Fantastic Four #4. 

With the war over, Comics and war time heroes and propaganda was falling out of fashion. 

Horror, Westerns, Romance titles, and various other Men's Adventure tales were now in fashion. 

Marvel Comics was dropped as a title in the 1950s. 

That didn't stop a small group of Jews from deciding to try their own at creating a comic company. 

In 1961 Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and Steve Ditko started up Marvel Comics and published "Journey into Mystery", which was a more science fiction approach to comics. (Steve Ditko would go on to work with Stan Lee to create Spider-Man and Doctor Strange. ) 

Over in DC land, they had The Flash, Green Lantern, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, and the forming team of the Justice League of America to settle out their roster. 

Stan Lee famously decided that he needed to change how Superheroes were presented. He wanted the common man to see himself in these heroes. 

He wasn't writing for the child audiences that were commonly seen as the target. He wanted to write to the adult reader that was looking to see themselves as the hero. 

It started in 1961 with the First Family: The Fantastic Four. 

Striking gold with characters that argued, held grudges, didn't keep secret identities, and often acted petty and selfish, Stan Lee kept his focus on the adult reader. 

The Amazing Spider-Man was published in 1963. 

So what was happening in America in the 60s that made people seek out flawed characters and deep characterization? 

Well, take a step back into the 50s. What’s going on? WWII ended in 1945, after all! How about a very little talked about war known as the Korean War 1950-1953. America’s first failure that was hushed up and pushed aside. 

Not to mention that the Vietnam War started in 1955 and lasted till 1975. 

1947 was the start of the longest lasting standoff known as "The Cold War” that didn’t end until 1989. 

The world had changed and the culture had changed drastically. 

In the world of [rival DC Comics'] Superman comic books, communism did not exist. Superman rarely crossed national borders or involved himself in political disputes. From 1962 to 1965, there were more communists [in Marvel Comics] than on the subscription list of Pravda. Communist agents attack Ant-Man in his laboratory, red henchmen jump the Fantastic Four on the moon, and Viet Cong guerrillas take potshots at Iron Man. - Comic historian Mike Benton. 

So how do the comics keep up with world events? How do they stay relevant? 

Go back and look at all those dates. Notice anything? I’m going to throw a lot of dates at you here: 

Iron Man: 1962 (Original title under Tales of Suspense then given his own title in 1968) 

Doctor Strange: 1963

Spider-Man: 1963

DareDevil: 1964

Lots of young men going off to war and looking for escape. Let’s focus on one I mentioned at the start of all this.

The Punisher was created in 1974. Right at the end of Vietnam when the soldiers were coming home, America had lost, and no one wanted to see the soldiers as heroes. 

The Punisher was created in a Spider-Man comic originally as a sort of anti-hero Assassin and occasional foe to Spider-Man. 

In 1986 he was given a mini series then just a year later "War Journal" was released as the first Punisher series. Followed by War Zone and Punisher Armory. 

You see, there was a Marvel comic run series called "The 'NAM" that came out in 1986 that told the perspective of soldiers involved in the war. It was popular for some time and the Punisher even appeared in it a few times. 

Over the years, Marvel has not known what to do with the Punisher. They lost interest in him in 1995 and canceled the series. 

Here’s the thing, America has been at war almost constantly since the Korean war. Sure, they aren’t big names like Korea, Vietnam, and so on… But Heck, Cuban Missile Crisis, Bosnia, Serbia, Gulf War… the names just go on and on. 

The comics lost the narrative on how to handle soldiers coming back with no way to deal with their trauma. They lost sight of what made the Punisher so interesting and so broken. 

They changed his story and relaunched right with the Punisher being the leader of an organized crime family. The number of times they ended and relaunched the Punisher in the late 90s is a little silly when you look at it. 

In 2000, Garth Ennis got hold of him and relaunched The Punisher under "Marvel Knights". By 2004, Ennis was given Marvel's first Mature print "MAX" where he kept the story of the Punisher going. 

His look was modified to keep up with modern standards. The superhero aspect was removed from MAX and we got just a gritty, realistic look at an anti-hero. 

But here's the issue: How do you keep the Punisher current? Vietnam ain't getting any younger. 

They have him joining other wars too. He's serving time in the CIA, he's a spy in the KGB, he's in the Middle East, the Balkans, the IRA.... 

In non-MAX titles, they realized that Frank Castle was no spring chicken. They killed him off and had him born again as a younger version. That way they could keep his Vietnam background but still be young. 

But this hasn't stopped the talk about how to keep his trauma and his war relevant to the readers of today. Do they take away his war? 

In one of the movies, he was made a veteran of the Gulf War. 

They've even taken it a step further in more current runs where they take Frank Castle out of the role fully and give it to someone else who takes up the mantle of "Punisher". But is it still the same character? 

Is someone not from the Vietnam war era still capable of being THE Punisher? 

I'm going to take a quote right from Wiki for this one: 

"The Punisher's backstory initially introduced him as a veteran of the Vietnam War. In this capacity, he appeared in the comic book 'The 'Nam', about the conflict. However, this dated the character as the years passed and the war was increasingly in the past. Greg Rucka retconned it to the War on Terror, instead, in 2011." 

"Steve [Wacker, editor on the project] and I went round and round on this, but ultimately, he wanted to make Frank younger because if he fought in Vietnam, he's in his 70s, and I get more mileage out of him being in his early 40s. I don't think that takes anything away from his origin. In the Marvel Universe, the conflict matters only because he was asked to go and serve his country, and he did. When he returned, the society he was essentially defending betrayed him and murdered his wife and children in front of him. The conflict matters less than the fact that he gave his service, and this was the reward. In that broad brush vague Marvel Universe sense there's always 'the war' whatever it was. If that put him in the Middle East rather than South East Asia, I think that matters less for the purposes of the Marvel Universe."

Why all this about the Punisher? Because it matters and here’s why: 

Magneto was created in 1963 by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. 

--- In a 2008 interview, Stan Lee said he "did not think of Magneto as a bad guy. He just wanted to strike back at the people who were so bigoted and racist...he was trying to defend the mutants, and because society was not treating them fairly he was going to teach society a lesson. He was a danger of course...but I never thought of him as a villain." ---

We didn't find out Magneto's background until 1981, in which he was portrayed as a Holocaust survivor.

Much later in 2008, "Magneto Testament" we got his full history. 

It is in this comic that Magneto is finally fully defined. A comic in which real life stories from Holocaust survivors are used to create this man that was never supposed to be a hero or a villain. 

Now, I haven't always appreciated the story lines in the X-men comics (things get so hard to follow sometimes. The shenanigans and who is dating who is just beyond me), but I have always appreciated the overall narrative and have always felt the conversation started by the first X-men comic and carried on in Magneto Testament was an important one that has ALWAYS been relevant. 

But the number of times they have tried to redefine Magneto's story is baffling. 

And the question has risen again: How do they keep Magneto relevant? 

As I write this, WWII ended about 79 years ago. Which would solidly put Magneto in his late 80s. Maybe early 90s. 

If they have an issue with the Punisher being in his 70s, how do they feel about a 90 year old man fighting Wolverine? 

And I’ve heard further talk of people contesting his Holocaust background. How do they update that? If you can take the Vietnam out of The Punisher, how do you take the Holocaust out of Magneto? 

Is their solution just to not have him be Jewish at all? Do they find someone else to be Magneto? Do they just reboot him fully? 

In an industry created by Jewish voices speaking out against antisemitism and hatred, why is there such a push to take the Jew out of comics?

It is easy enough to google "List of Jewish Comic book characters".

Which is exactly what I did.

Considering how much wikipedia is being editited right now and erasing things, I was honestly curious to see what I would get.

You get your classics:

(Marc what are you doing?)

(Billy, I don't think that's Kosher? Is that Kosher? Can you light two candles at once? Can you use lightning? What if the lightning is generated by a person? Where's this argument in the Talmud? I bet someone somewhere argued about it.)

The Thing (Ben Grimm), who is the first one everyone thinks of.

Doc Samson, who Marvel often forgets exists despite the fact that he is amazing and I Love him.

Iceman, Legion (really? How many?), Magneto, Moon Knight (This counts as at least 3….maybe 4….5 on a bad day?), Sasquatch (Oooohh yeahhhh), Kitty Pryde (the most out spoken one next to Ben Grimm), Songbird (Huh), and Wiccan (I love him and it warms my heart to see him being shown properly). There are a few other random figures in the background now and then, but those are the big ones in Marvel.

DC?

(This is just sad)

Kate Kane (Neat!), Hal Jordan (OG!), Harley Quinn (Of course), Phantom Stranger, Ragman (A moon knight DC response), and some random ones.

Thing is… This list used to be longer. I know it used to be longer. And I feel like it has left off quite a few big names from other comic publishers too….

This Wikki article was edited recently and I fear not for good.

So how many characters do we find debating are Jewish? I know Moon Knight is often being debated for various stupid reasons. But the character is Jewish. And I appreciate the writer that makes a point to state this (McKay for the win!)

But at what point does Marvel start to question how much longer they can hang onto the most blatantly and important Jewish character? When does Marvel start to push Magneto out? When is he too old? When is his story too obscure? When does he stop being relevant?

I fear for the next 10 years. 20 years. 50 years.

Don't forget where comics came from. Don't forget where characters come from. Don't try to take away what makes the character the character and continue to call it that.

I don't know how to end this. I don't have any answers. Sometimes characters need updates. Sometimes you see the obvious racism and make it go away. But do you erase it fully or do you acknowledge it was there, it was a mistake, and do your best to fix it? Can you do that with the past too? "Yeah, Frank was in Nam. Sure, that would make him in his 70s, but we aren't here to talk about how old he is. We're here to read about how broken of a man he is and how he will now hunt down justice."

[fototingobug]

presenting the love of my life , Kifah Suleiman . Warning : hella yap .

I said if I got 5 likes on the original post I made for them that I would make a mini lore dump and I got 6 so 👍

Kifah is 30 during X-men 97 . Their codename is viper .

Kifah’s mutant abilities include hyper-agility , improved stealth , and the psychic ability to trap another mind in a dimension of their own making if their hands make contact with the other person’s head . Both of them will go limp during this time , as they are no longer in that plane of existence . Their physical bodies remain unharmed , and Kifah can’t hold someone there for longer than 30 minutes in the real world , but considering they can do anything to shatter the minds of whoever made the unfortunate decision of being on the opposite side as them , it could feel like years . Kifah prefers close-range combat because of their hands , but does occasionally fight with a bowstaff .

They were born to a Syrian mother and an Afro-Syrian mutant father . Kifah was born looking the way they did but did not develop their psychic abilities until they were 12 .

Kifah is intersex and identifies as agender , but does refer to themselves as transfeminine or transgender at times and identifies with the label to some extent . Their pronouns are they/she .

Kifah’s mother was unaware that she carried the X-Gene , and she was also unaware that her husband was a mutant . Her husband himself was in such denial he genuinely didnt believe he was either . His mutant ability was to speed up the photosynthesis process in plants .

TW BRIEF CHILD ABUSE AND CSA MENTION UNDER THE CUT . NOT GRAPHIC .

Kifah’s father left when she was 5 due to not wanting a mutant child . Her mother turned to neglecting them , and instead pouring all her time out into their younger brother .

Kifah’s mother eventually married another man who abused Kifah in multiple ways including physically and sexually . This eventually lead to Kifah scratching their stepfather on the face , causing him to go blind in his right eye .

abuse mentions over 🖤

Kifah’s stepfather twisted the story and made Kifah out to be an uncontrollable mutant who needed to be put down . Kifah’s mother unreluctantly sent them to live in a Christian orphanage , before they were declared too much trouble and were sent to an orphanage and boarding school in the United States where they met their best friend Molimo ( my friend’s oc , unfortunately he isn’t a tumblr user but here’s doodles of them I’ve done )

Much like them , molimo couldn’t hide being a mutant , and they bonded over that . I don’t have my friends permission to talk much about their oc right now , but if I get it I’ll update . To make a long story short , the orphanage burned down due to anti-mutant rioters , and Kifah was ‘ killed ‘ in the fire . Molimo found forge , and Kifah , was found by Fabian Cortez . Fabian saw potential in Kifah’s reality-warping and time-bending powers , and so he manipulated them into feeling as though they were in a safe position .

im getting tired of writing so to make another long story short , Kifah leaves what would become the acolytes at 16 , briefly joins the brotherhood , quits and keeps a low profile for the next 4 years , before rejoining the brotherhood and losing their horn on asteroid M during the magneto protocols . She goes on a villain arc due to this as her horns are incredibly important to her , before joining briefly with the X-men and reuniting with Molimo . After this they become more of their own character and aren’t really a part of any particular organization , school , or group , and instead makes radical statements of anti-government and anti-mutant hate groups through extremist acts of art and protest , as well as some physical assaults on government officials and police .

they were originally made for the comics but after watching 97 I think I’m obligated to make them work for 97 as well . It may change a bit to accommodate for how she lost her horn since asteroid M and the magneto protocols take place when they would be 30 , so maybe they lost it somehow else .

tldr I love Kifah and they deserve the world .

[thevulturesquadron]

Ok so this is me sorta headcanoning, so take this with a grain of salt, but one of the reasons why the infantilization of Rogue always bothers me is because I always felt like her powers were a metaphor for disability/chronic illness and fandom police act already like disabled women aren't capable of being in their own villain romances, example being Entrapdak antis denying Entrapta her own agency in her romance with Hordak in the She-Ra reboot.

Oh! But you make a really good point! It’s one of those subtle perspectives that can be dangerous just because of how easy they are to integrate into someone's view of the world. I'm not as vocal online as I used to be. I feel like there are people out there far better equipped to talk about it than I, while I grow old and cranky. But, you brought up a really important aspect that kinda sent me into a 'hold my beer' moment so apologies for the long answer! To start with, I wouldn’t call this a headcanon, not at all, clearly not in the context of X-men, and Rogue in particular. It’s a very apt analogy. The reason why these characters become relevant to us is because we recognize something from our personal journey in them, and the comparison you made for Rogue is a very strong one. Her inability to touch can absolutely be read as a disability! In so many of her stories/arcs it is often portrayed as a struggle, as an obstacle to a ‘normal life’. Her difficulties with gaining control over her powers and dealing with other personalities that are trying to take over her mind can also be a strong metaphor for mental health struggles/disorders. Rogue is a fantastic hero in that regard and seeing her be her own person, learning how to work and be proud of what she can do, can feel like a personal victory for so many people. It’s why it’s important to see her happy, to see her winning her battles and use who she is and what she can do in a positive and impactful way. There are many reasons why fans end up taking away her agency or attributing her choices to a different (often male) character. And, to be fair, a couple of comic-book writers have done this exact thing to her, so I can see where this skewed perspective might be coming from. Within fandom this happens mostly because it serves to support their arguments for whatever thing they prefer or project onto the character. If they don’t like a certain narrative or can’t accept that it might’ve be written for someone else, they have this to fall back on and point to. Or, sadly, one of the simplest reasons for doing this is the age-old turning their ship preferences into ‘I’m right, you are wrong’ arguments. But these things can hide some internalized misconceptions. Unfortunately I haven’t seen the reboot of She-Ra (shame on me) so I don’t have the full picture for the take on Entrapta, but now I have one more reason to invest some time in it. In this situation with Rogue, I believe that what you mentioned applies very well. The argument that I’ve seen going around a lot is that Rogue was manipulated/swayed by being presented with the opportunity to ‘be normal’. Because she wanted to be able to touch and as a result she was taken advantage of because of her ‘disability’. Which is entirely false. In no version of the relationship between Rogue and Magneto in the comics, and not even in the reinvented take in the animation, has he ever abused that. Her attraction to him has always, always, come first, and the ability to touch, second. He was never the first one to act upon it. Even in the animation, every shot in the flashback was carefully considered to portray that - she is shown as the initiator every time (my favourite scene is when she’s trying her very best to pose in a suggestive way and he just paints her as he sees her, lively and sincere). But some fans don’t want to see that. They don’t want to acknowledge the authenticity of her decisions because it doesn’t serve the narrative they want of her/for her.

I read your message and it hit like a hammer how much deeper this problem can actually go, because it’s masked by those surface-level justifications. Removing agency and responsibility from someone just because they operate differently than one’s expectations is damaging in and of itself, and within a fandom it perpetuates an idea that can stifle people’s perspective and critical thinking. (This whole topic actually reminded me of Madison Tevlin's “Assume that I can” commercial. I think it's relevant to the conversation) Thanks a lot for sharing this!!! We need to talk more about these things and if I misspoke on something or missed something important would love to hear it. 💜

[honey-minded-hivemind]

Follow-up for Villain!Reader (Bee-themed), Hive!

After trying to flee from the platonic yan/s, and subsequentially figuring out the platonic yans who've been visiting then were infected (or telepaths who could see into their mind and their infected teammates), Reader heads on a night train to New York... Where they were when they were Hive, and where every other hero, villain, vigilante, and super person seems to reside.

Being back is... Not the greatest feeling in the world. Reader feels tense, trudging out of the station and out into the bustling streets with only what they had packed previously, but they can't focus on how they hate being back. Their first order of business: Finding a few hidey-homes to set up shop in. Perks of saving their money over the years from their old villain days is they have a small fortune tucked away, and it definitely helps get them a few places to hide in. Imagine that they have a small apartment/house/studio in each hero/villain/vigilante territory. Some work as homes, some work as small coffee houses, others as antique markets and flea stores. Reader has to keep themself going, and they learned a few tricks over the years on how to keep hidden and to run side lives. That being said...

They're back on the home turf of every single person they've been trying to avoid. And it is driving them INSANE.

Yeah, look. Sure, it's nice setting up little cafes between two or three schools and entertaining tired students with the backstory behind the objects displayed on the walls. It's cute seeing people find items they love from their antique/flea malls, lighting up when they find something they personally found and put in the collection. It even feels good hearing stories from the weird kids and teens and strangers who mill around the places they're at, enjoying a peaceful Saturday... But still, it's NEW YORK! Home of every powerful, rich, and trained person who happens to know their old alias, fought AND chased them, and whom have made it clear that some of them had been infected with their venom or pheromones, by them or their boss or by some freak accident! How the H*CK does one stay calm in the belly of the beasts?!

Reader slowly gets to know some of the teens who show up at their cafes and antique stores, learning a bit about how people their age are supposed to act. It's... sobering, in a way. That that could have been them. That they could have had a healthier life, family or friends, a sense of purpose and community... Yet they cast it back to the shadows. They can't go back in time, and they have to keep in the here and now. When they have teen heroes and villains show up at their places, Reader is shocked. TEEN heroes? TEEN villains? TEEN vigilantes? Where the F*CK are the adults?! Who the H*LL is letting their kids run around fighting psychopaths and criminals and rioters and anti-mutant and racist *ssholes?! When Reader manages to calm down, they realize that some of the teens are the same ones they see on a near-daily basis. And they promptly have an (almost) heart-attack.

Great, JUST GREAT. Their old foes have children in their groups, who they now KNOW. The X-Men, who were only The Professor, Storm, and Wolverine years ago, now have, like, a dozen kids! The Brotherhood, who was maybe Magneto, Mystique, and Sabretooth or Mastermind now had half a dozen brats causing havoc (and had a Havok with them. PEACHY). Spider-man is barely a teenager, and has NO adults, unless you count Nick Fury and the Avengers checking up on him! And he's not the only spider child!

Reader is having a melt down, along with choice words over everything they've learned by the power of observation and intuition. They thought they had been the only child brought into that world of super powers and nutjobs... Now there's near TWENTY of them?! Possibly MORE?!

Reader works on keeping a new distance between themslef and the teens and kids, while also asking careful questions ("How is school?" "Weather is bad tonight, do you have a jacket?" "I heard there's a few new heroes and villains popping up, what do you think about it?") Reader uses every trick in the book they can remember to figure out what's going on. Are the adults treating them well? Are they still after Reader? Is the public leaving them alone, or causing too much trouble? Reader doesn't want to say they care, but they will go out of their way to leave a few leftovers out at their cafes for anyone who needs it (heroes, villains, vigilantes, homeless, hungry kids). It feels nice, doing good... If only they could just forget the nightmares of the past...

All this time, the platonic yan/s have gone back to New York, and have heard word that Hive might be there. They're elated. Of course now, they need to actually find that slippery little bee, and drag them back to their team/group/base, with them. They're glad though, that the teens of their group have a few new hangout spots. Some vintage stores or something they keep prattling on about. It makes them happy, and they belive the teens deserve to have some happiness... Especially since the whole reason they took on teens themselves was to offer them a better home, a better family, job, community, than Hive seemed to have... Finding out that their old boss had basically used them the moment their powers came in, it leaves them feeling sick. Maybe their little bee didn't have much of a childhood, but they'd be d*mned if their own kids didn't.

Sooner or later, the platonic yan/s visit the places the teens recommended (after much pestering, and in some cases, bribery).... And find themselves face-to-face (some of them towering over) Hive; or, at least the Hive outside of the mask. They're trying to stay calm, but seeing how the one kid they'd failed is right there (and those who had been infected, want to hear their thoughts again, and hug them), it's hard to do so, yet they manage. If only their little bee weren't so scared to see them. Don't they remember the chases? The heists? Late nights with moonlight streaming down and the fresh adrenaline of the hunt? Seeing inside their head, if only for a minute (and before they knew that was what they were doing)?

The adults take the time to inform their kids (plus Spider-man and the Spider kids), that their new friend, is also Hive. The old villain they talked about, whenever it was a quiet night and they were in the mood to reminisce. And the teens are floored. THAT person, is HIVE? The odd, kinda funny, and nervous barista/antique collector/owner of the business they visit, is Hive, right-hand man-woman- er, child- to Drone Queen? The most delusional, most vicious and conniving black-clad villain they'd seen since Hydra and the Weapon X *ssholes? THAT Hive? Suffice to say-

They're SHOOK...

Peter Parker had done research on some of the old villains the Avengers, X-Men, even Deadpool, the Brotherhood, and Doc Ock, had faced. And Drone Queen could be described by one word (he wasn't allowed to say that word, Aunt May, Nick Fury, and Iron Man would kill him if he said it), so he used another, more scientific word: a psychopath. They were BAD news. They'd had the latest state-of-the-art drugs back in the day, the type that could control anyone, or make them believe anything. Not to mention hordes upon hordes of guards, all of which were found to have a mindless loyalty to them, even when they were almost killed. It was... scary. Then there was Hive, who was like their weird... sidekick, or pet, or something. Who would run errands. Finding whatever gem or artifact they wanted, causing chaos between various gangsters and local vigilantes, whatever they were told, they did- Until one day, they just- (this part no one seemed sure about)- they just didn't do what they used to. Where they were peppy, talkative, and funny, they went silent. Jumpy. Like even THEY were scared of their boss. And after that, they just kept becoming less active, less loyal, small things they let slide and left alone... The heroes and villains eventually faced down Drone Queen, but it turned out all the control they had was from Hive all along.. It wasn't some charisma they had, or bribes, or even torture- They used Hive's venom, and forced it onto others, making unwilling puppets and slaves. They found that out when Hive actually attacked that freaky liar themself (good for them!). They were defeated, locked up, and life went back to normal... But Hive had escaped in the chaos, never to be heard from again. Yeah, apparently that was NOT the case anymore.

Cue the teens now trying to get to know Reader, the infected platonic yans happily renewing their chase and efforts to open up the hivemind, and the other platonic yans just going along for the ride...

At least Reader has an idea now of who all knows about them... Now if they could just slip past the adults and hitch a ride to Cananda...

Bonus:

Reader: How old were you when you started, twelve?!

Spider-man: No, I was thirteen!

Reader: ....

Reader: I have some choice words for Nick Fury...

Spider-man: Well, fine! How old were YOU when you started?

Reader: ... Do you mean when I met my old boss? Or when I actually started out as Hive?

Spider-man: Um... whichever, I guess?

Reader: ... I was... maybe... ten?

Spider-man:

Spider-man: WHAT?!

Reader: Well in my defense, I met them when I was five!

Spider-man: HOW IS THAT ANY BETTER?!

[racefortheironthrone]

Are there any notable examples of anti-mutant prejudice towards the X-Men coming from within the superhero community?

This is a great question!

This gets to the complicated nature of how mutants fit into the Marvel Universe. I've always been a vocal proponent of the idea that, far from the mutant metaphor only making sense if it's in its own little bubble where mutants are the only people with superpowers, the mutant metaphor actually functions better in the context of the Marvel Universe, because it allows you to explore more complicated and more subtle ways that prejudice functions.

While there are plenty of super-villains who have quite blatant anti-mutant prejudice, you don't tend to get that same kind of overt bigotry towards mutants among super-heroes. Partly, this is because bigotry is a very unheroic character trait, but it also has to do with the way that the way that Marvel historically portrayed the spillover effects of anti-mutant prejudice.

Following in a kind of Niemöllerian logic, it's almost always the case that groups that hate and fear mutants also end up hating and fearing non-mutant superheroes. Thus, Days of Future Past starts with the Sentinels being turned on mutants, but it ends with the Sentinels wiping out the Avengers and the Fantastic Four too - because the same atavistic fear of "the great replacement" applies to both mutants and mutates. Likewise, the same forces that line up to push through the Mutant Registration Act inevitably end up proposing a Superhuman Registration Act, because once you've violated the precepts of equality under the law for one minority group, you establish a precedent to do it to another.

Instead, I would argue what you see in the case of anti-mutant prejudice among superheroes is explorations of liberal prejudice. This takes many different forms: in Civil War, you see Tony Stark insensitively try to wave the bloody shirt of Stamford in the face of a survivor of the Genoshan genocide or Carol playing the good liberal ally but ultimately trying to get mutants to set aside their own struggle in favor of her own political project. (For someone who's spent a good deal of time working, and living with, the X-Men, occasionally against the interests of the state, Carol does have a tendency to stick her foot in her mouth. Hence in Civil War II, you see Carol essentially goysplaining the dangers of creeping authoritarianism to Magneto.)

In Avengers vs X-Men, you see the Avengers acting like they know the Phoenix Force better than mutants and ultimately prioritizing the safety of mankind over the efforts of mutantkind to reverse their own extinction. This is where the "Avengers are cops" meme in the fandom comes from. (I would argue that Captain America is badly mischaracterized in the latter event - we know which side he's on when the interests of mutants and the interests of the state come into conflict.)

The common thread here is that anti-mutant prejudice among superheroes emerges as a kind of unthinking, unreflective callousness brought on by a worldview that thinks of humans as the universal default of lived experience - while thinking of mutants as a somewhat annoying special interest group that fixates on their particularist grievances rather than working for what the heroes consider to be the common good.

For a more intimate version of how this plays out, I think the Fantastic Four are a great exploration of how "well-meaning" liberals can massively fuck up when they don't do the work of examining their own biases. We've seen this since the very beginning: in Fantastic Four #21, Kirby goes out of his way to depict uber-WASP Reed Richards blithely assuming that the "free market of ideas" will take care of the Hatemonger, while the subtextually Jewish Ben Grimm knows that the way to deal with a mind-controlling Hitler clone wearing purple Klan robes is deplatforming-by-way-of-clobberin'.

Then later on, we see Reed Richards debate Congress out of passing a Superhuman Registration Act, while saying nothing about the Mutant Registration Act - even though he has a mutant son who is directly threatened by it. (See that adorable blond moppet with the slur scrawled across his face in the fictional advertisement above? That's Franklin Richards.) This is why I have a crack theory that Franklin's biological father is actually Namor rather than Reed, which is why Reed so consistently shows a passive-aggressive hostility to his son's mutancy.

At the same time, Sue also has her blindspots when it comes to mutant rights. In the underrated FF/X miniseries, Susan Storm acts like an understanding and supportive parent to Franklin - right up until someone suggests that Franklin might want to come to Krakoa and explore his mutant identity, at which point she goes full Karen and starts lashing out with her powers. Chip Zdarsky, the writer, explicitly compared Reed and Sue to liberal parents who support gay rights in the abstract until their kid comes out as trans and wants to spend time in LGBT+ spaces.