#lumax<3< /div> Explore tagged Tumblr posts

[haluton]

No you don't understand how important the gay people in my phone are to me

[bylertruth3r]

Mike and Will literally share shoes (and Will might be sleeping in Mike's room) and might not be dating yet when they start dating they're gonna share a whole closet and flirt with each other about how good they look in each other's clothes and just being obnoxious (I will rewatch those scenes so many times) what if they're sharing/swapping shoes because it's the 80's and they're in a really homophobic and conservative town and if they want to give little hints that they're dating and want to openly show it (to at least their friends) they have to be subtle about it? and maybe when they're at home they share clothes without feeling like they have to be careful with how they act around each other and can be openly affectionate (like them in s2)

Thank you for pointing it out @cler1csfink

you can read my twitter thread about Mike being gay and in love with Will here

blue sky account here

tik tok account here

Finn's gay Mike playlist here (STurn)

Mike had an unrequited gay puppy crush on Eddie

"Mike was always super protective of Will and Will always leaned on him, and you could never really tell if it was something romantic or just a really special friendship"

Finn said that they costume made the jacket so them putting a triangle on Mike's jacket was intentional (triangles are a queer symbol), the costume designer said that they put triangles on Robin's shirt to represent her queerness (she's a lesbian), Mike is gay

Mike is wearing Will's shoes in s5 and they're sharing clothes which is a thing couples do

Confirmation that they're the same shoes and they're both size 10 so yeah they're sharing shoes

and Mike brought these shoes from Hawkins which means the puma suede belong to Will

and in a leaked footage El and Mike broke up/ were already broken up because Mike says "we'll still be friends" and "i wanted to tell you first" which makes me think he might have came out to her (and in that video he was literally wearing his boyfriend's shoes)

video from @nowmemoriees

in s1 during that scene on the train tracks they're friends and in the leaked video they were wearing similar clothes to what they were wearing in that s1 scene where they were friends and could trust each other. i think Mike's gonna come out to her (as gay) there which would explain why El was crying, and why Mike said "i wanted to talk to you first", in s1 Mike said "friends tell the truth" to El and in s5 it's Mike's turn to be honest about himself and maybe he'll tell her he's in love with Will or maybe he'll tell her that he's dating Will

it's the same song that played when Robin came out to Steve, obviously Steve had a crush on Robin but she's a lesbian and can only love him platonically while even though Mike tried to love El romantically he couldn't do it because he's gay and he didn't even bother to close his eyes and kiss her back

plus in a deleted script it says he was mad at himself

and the song playing when Mike and El were kissing in s3 "can't fight this feeling" is about someone being in love with their friend and not knowing what to do about it while already being in a relationship with someone else so it's about Mike being in love with Will and not knowing what to do so he represses it and pushes him away to get over him but then realizing it's not working (which is something he realized at the end of s3) and he's gay and he want on a double date with Will and Lumax after that

and Mike in s4 was trying to be normal and might be into new things (men, because dnd is not new)

and

and in s4 "in the closet at rink o mania" started playing Mike took what Will said "and us?" as romantic and felt the need to clarify that they're friends and Will said they used to be best friends and the camera panned back to Mike plus synth music is his thing since he has "Smalltown Boy" (gay song) as his first song on his spotify playlist, it's a song about a gay man leaving his homophobic town to start a new life and Finn said he wants Mike to leave Hawkins

and he has a "one way" sign pointing to his closet because he's gay and closeted and in his room he has a poster of a shirtless man while the others (Steve, B*lly, and Lucas' "friends") all have women posters because they like women, Mike has all the things he loves the most in his room, a wizard (Will) and buff men <33, and a buff male dragon for some reasons and he has Will's drawings in his room

Mike being obsessed with Superman? and him having a poster of a shirtless man while Steve, B*lly and the tigers all had posters of women in bikinis (because they like girls) Will has a skinny pink panther poster in his room which symbolizes his type in men (Mike) Mike has a shirtless man poster and a buff male dragon poster which symbolizes his type in men (Will) (he's not really buff but he's stronger than Mike) they're each other's type and love each other plus you can see Mike looking at Will's arms during some scenes

also in s3 he was happy about Dustin having a gf and asked him about her but then in s4 when he "finds out" Will has a crush on a "girl" he doesn't ask him about "her" and acts distant (he was pretending he didn't care but he was jealous) and he asked Will about the painting because he was hoping it was for him (it was)

and he realized Will loves him back in the van scene, Mike wants to feel needed and Will needs him, Mike felt lost without Will, Will felt lost without Mike, Will loves him, Mike loves him back, they both think the other doesn't love them, they will prove each other wrong in s5 when Mike finds out Will lied about the painting and loves him back, they love each other the way they want to be loved

and he was so happy to see Will drew a heart on his shield

which is literally an engagement ring, no hands because they'll be more than friends in s5

they've been filming a lot at that farm.. and Ross and his wife said that they enjoyed eyewitness

and Lukas and Mike both have internalized homophobia (Lukas was dating a girl to be normal and then he breaks up with his gf and starts dating Philip,his male best friend)

and if this leak is actually correct there would be another parallel. the episode 2 of s5 is called "the vanishing of ***** Wheeler and if Holly goes missing then Mike and Will are gonna go looking for her in the upside down and maybe they'll kiss there (maybe that's where Mike's gonna get injured)

because in eyewitness Lukas gets injured and his boyfriend stays with him and he kisses his forehead, Lukas' dad sees it (he's ok with it)

and in s2 Mike stayed with Will at the hospital so now it's Will's turn

they've been filming a lot at that farm.. and Ross and his wife said that they enjoyed eyewitness and they filmed at like 3 or 4 different farms (one of them has swings) and they're literally filming at one right now

more s5 leaks and Mike and El staying friends after the break up and Mike being worried for Will <33 and Mike and Robin bonding over their partners being in danger

Will is wearing one of Mike's shirts in s5, Mike wore something similar in s3 it's a gap shirt and Eddie said Mike wears gap shirts and Will has never worn something like this in the previous seasons and he didn't bring that many clothes back to Hawkins so he's gonna have to wear Mike's if he's staying at Mike's (the Wheelers added 2 chairs to their breakfast table and Will's tiger plushie is in Mike's room, it makes me think that they're already dating in the scene because Will is wearing blue yellow and green which are Byler's colors

Noah liking another byler edit? fork found in the kitchen. pic from @iamforbyler from here . there are hints that Mike and Will's first kiss will be in s5 episode 7 (during Jopper's first kiss there were boxes that said MW705, Mike and Will s5 episode 7) they definitely told him to promote Byler again to introduce Byler as boyfriends to the GA and Millie is not promoting mlvn anymore and when they asked her what her favorite pop culture couple was she said the couple from twlight instead of mlvn

Will's wearing Mike's black jeans, the blue shirt looks like something s2 Mike would wear but the undershirt looks like Will's in s4. he's just stealing his boyfriend's clothes atp because Will has never worn black jeans before and he's wearing blue (Mike's color) and Mike's the only one in the party who has worn black jeans and Will might be staying at Mike's because his tiger plushie was in Mike's room and the Wheelers added 2 chairs to their breakfast table plus Will has to stay at Mike's since he doesn't have a house in Hawkins and the cabin is too small for all the Byers to live in.

maybe he's wearing Mike's black jeans from s5 instead of the s4 ones but either way they're still Mike's jeans since Will has never worn black jeans before s5 and Mike has, Will is stealing his boyfriend's clothes, plus Mike is wearing Will's shoes in s5 <33

Byler is so obviously gonna happen even without all those proofs because they gave mlvn the stancy storyline of Nancy not being able to say "I love you" to Steve because she's in love with Jonathan and they didn't give that storyline to Jopper, Lumax and Jancy or even Duzie which are healthy couples who don't lie about who they are to each other and never felt unloved by their partners, and Mike wants to feel needed and Will needs him and El doesn't and Millie said El realized she's her own superhero and that she's gonna figure out who she is without Mike and Millie is not promoting mlvn anymore

Mike and Will spent s3 acting like they were the exes because in s2 Mike was overly affectionate with Will but he stopped doing that when he got a gf because he saw what he did as romantic so in his mind being affectionate with Will even just hugging him or just holding his hand like he did in s2 would be cheating because he's in love with Will and he's gay

Mike becomes less and less interested in El the more feminine she becomes, it becomes more difficult for him to pretend he's straight i mean he "fell in love" with her when she looked like a boy and people kept calling her a boy..

Mike probably thought she was a boy at first, everyone kept calling El the boy with the buzzcut at first in s1 and Mike said "that's not Will" instead of "that's a girl" and interesting thing is the more feminine El becomes the less interested in her Mike becomes, he probably thought El was a boy at first and she was wearing a yellow shirt (Will's color) maybe she reminded him of Will?

I mean Mike being gay aside who would you rather for him to be with?

A, with someone who doesn't understand him and he feels like he has to change himself to be with and who makes him feel insicure?

B, with someone who he feels like he can fully be himself with and who understands him and who puts him on the first place and makes him feel loved? B right? with Will

Jancy had their "we're just friends" moment and they kissed in 2 and Jopper had their "it's just 2 friends getting together for a nice dinner" moment and they kissed in s4 , Lumax had their "she's not my girlfriend" moment and they kissed in s2 and Byler had their "we're friends, we're friends" moment (started by Mike who doesn't know Will is gay) and they'll kiss in s5, there were no moments like these between Dustin and Lucas because they're not in love with each other

Byler's first cameo in a book and they're kissing and holding hands<33 it's about Alina wanting to ask a guy out and she catches the guy (Ben) kissing his boyfriend (Janos), there's carved "W+M" on the tree and a "byler" sign in the second pic, they probably asked permission to Netflix and people who worked on st to add them which makes Byler already canon? the author of the book reversed the arrow on Mike's pocket to point at Will.. and it's close to his heart.. that's adorable

pic from here @sususu34

originally El was supposed to die in s1 (I'm glad they didn't kill her) and they were already planning to make Will in love with Mike since s1? plus if they wanted to make Will move on they would've given him a bf in the previous seasons like with Dustin and Suzie because Max didn't like Dustin back. So basically Mike and Will are gonna get together in s5

JEALOUS MIKE WHEELER WELCOME BACK, Will getting his own love triangle as he should, or maybe it's just Mike since it says "a love interest" not "a new love interest".. I kinda want to see Mike being in pain for a bit tho since I had to witness Will being in pain for 4 seasons, I kinda want a guy to flirt with Will and Will tries to get to know the character to move on from Mike and Mike gets mad and jealous about it, although they did say there were no new characters in it.. and the only new boy is Derek who's Holly's age so maybe the love interest is just Mike, and Mike is gonna be Will's boyfriend, they literally just confirmed Byler because they said Will is getting a boyfriend and they said they won't add any major characters in s5 so that means Mike is gonna be Will's boyfriend

they literally just confirmed Byler is endgame because they said Will is getting a boyfriend and the Duffers said they won't add any major characters in s5 so Mike's gonna be Will's boyfriend since the only new characters are a woman a boy who's 10 and a family with 2 little kids and the Duffers said that Will's emotional arc (his relationship with Mike) is gonna tie up the whole season, if they wanted to give Will another boyfriend they would've done it in the previous seasons (like how they handled Dustin's unrequited love for Max in s2 and gave him a gf in s3) instead of making Will in love with Mike for 4 seasons

Mike is gonna be Will's love interest and boyfriend and they know it that's why they only allowed their subscribers to see this tweet to avoid a lawsuit, leak here, this leaker is really reliable and from Reddit

There's a leak about how Mike and Will are gonna clean each other's wounds in s5 episode 2 like Jancy did in s1, maybe Mike is gonna get hurt while protecting Will from something and Will is probably gonna be there scolding him while cleaning Mike's wounds and Mike is just staring at Will's face and not listening to a single word and blushing

this leaker has a source that was an extra for 2 weeks, take everything as a grain of salt, nothing is confirmed, Mike's gonna kiss Will first (and it's gonna be angsty) after he finds out Will lied about the painting and loves him back, the kiss is gonna happen halfway through the season or later

So according to a leak Mike has finally accepted that he's gay and he's not trying to be normal (straight) anymore, and he's discovering things about himself, he's gonna kiss Will first

So Finn's new st playlist (for s5) is really interesting.. Mike is gay, "it's a passing phase" "give it a hundred years, it won't go away' (from "angst in my pants")"I don't want to be the one whose coming out first" (it's from "don't ask me to explain) Mike wants Will to come out first and to confess first, and "should you need a love that's true, it's me" (from "what you're doing), Will needs Mike and Mike knows it, Mike and Will both have "just what I needed" as the last song in their playlists because they need each other, Mike also has a song about dreaming and thinking about a person they know they're not supposed to, it's his POV of Byler

This is the playlist (STurn), Finn makes playlists for characters he plays for inspiration

Mike tried to lie to himself and pretend that he could love El but he can't (because he's gay and in love with Will), there's a song called "don't ask me anything" in his playlist and the lyrics are "it's so easy to lie to myself and pretend i could love you but i can't" the last lyrics are about a failed relationship with a girl

in s5 episode 4 there will be a flashback with 8 yo Mike and Will and 13 yo Jonathan, the fact that they're spending so much time on Byler (and even giving us Miwi flashbacks) and that we already got confirmation that Will's gonna have a boyfriend (it's Mike) should tell y'all everything (they're gonna get together), they spent s2 and s4 together and they're gonna be a team (jopper parallel) in s5 and spend most of s5 together, they're gonna film the scene in early July, Mike's the only one with lines so the scene is gonna be shot from his POV of Byler

Mike and Will are gonna spend most of s5 together because they're gonna be a team (jopper parallel) and they're gonna have scenes with Rovickie where they're gonna be a group, Mike's obviously gay because otherwise they wouldn't have put him with other queer people, plus El's gonna have a separate arc from Mike (because they're gonna break up and she's gonna be more independent)

we're gonna get a scene of Byler riding a bike with Holly, Holly's gonna have to thirdwheel Mike and Will, good luck to her, Will's gonna spend most of S5 with Mike and they're gonna be a team (jopper parallel) and if Will's boyfriend was gonna be another boy they would've made Will spend most of S5 with that guy so basically Mike's gonna be Will's boyfriend

Pics here

Will's staying at Mike's which would explain the Wheelers adding 2 chairs and it would explain Mike and Will sharing clothes/items and it would explain Will hanging out with Holly, plus the Byers don't have their old house anymore

Now that we know that Will's staying at Mike's house we're gonna get so much domestic content like them sharing clothes/shoes, them sharing Mike's bed, them taking care of Holly together, them kissing, them going to school together .. They're so married

the mlvn make out scene people are talking about is just a kiss at the beginning of s5 which is gonna be their last kiss (a break up kiss?) which is gonna parallel stancy's last kiss in episode 1 s2 before they broke up and Nancy got with Jonathan ,I think they're doing that to compare Byler's first kiss (which is gonna be passionate and desperate) to mlvn's last kiss, also more confirmation that the painting is gonna be really important in both Mike and Will's storylines, a byler got these things confirmed by 2 sources but they said to not worry because this is not bad for Byler, it's actually good for us, production is also trying to keep Byler hidden (they're gonna get together),

Pics here

They're trying to keep Byler hidden because they're gonna date and the painting is gonna be really important to their storylines because that's how they're gonna get together

happy 2 years anniversary to the most obvious foreshadowing ever (making willelmike walk in their love triangle formation and making El walk away from them and picking up the same dead flowers Mike gave her at the airport because their relationship is dead and making Mike stay with Will and putting Byler with other couples and putting them in the center because the're gonna focus on that relationship in s5 and making them breath in sync while the other couples were holding hands, and they made the music pick up while they showed us the couples, Mike and Will are gonna get together in s5)

video of the scene here

so from what we know so far: a guy is gonna hit on Will and Will won't reciprocate, Jonathan hates that guy for hitting on Will and Mike and Will's relationship is gonna be extremely important in s5 and they're gonna be a team, it's kinda obvious what's gonna happen (Mike and Will are gonna get together), what if Will starts dating Chance and starts hanging out with him more to get over Mike and Mike gets mad and jealous about it and they fight about it and then we have another Byler rain fight but this time Mike's the jealous one? btw Jonathan HATES Chance for hitting on Will, he's a Byler shipper fr, pics of the leak here

Mike said he's the only one that CARES about Will because he's in love with him and he said he cares about El because he's trying (and failing) to love her the way he loves Will but when El called him out on him not loving her anymore he got defensive because he's not in love with her ,he's in love with Will and he's gay

Mike only said those things because he thinks El commissioned the painting and he felt like he owed it to El and you can tell that because he only started saying those things after Will said "you're the heart" and they called the soundtrack of the scene "you're the heart" because Mike now thinks the things Will said in the van were from El, in this scene Mike was trying to recreate the shed scene but the difference is no one pushed Mike into saying those things to Will and he didn't repeat any word he heard from others when he spoke to Will, in s5 he's gonna realize Will loves him back and that he lied about the painting and he's gonna kiss him, Mike likes to plagiarize things, pics here

THE OG PARTY IS BACK and so is the Byler height difference <33, Mike and Will being the IT couple in high school <33, Will is sitting in front of Mike during lunch <33 they're gonna be such a cute couple i just know it, they're gonna be the couple who plays footsies under the table, Holly has a gay thing in her room, maybe to support Mike being gay?

only the couples said to each other or about each other that they were "friends" while the actual platonic friends (Dustin and Lucas) never said it because they never felt the need to, and Mike said it about Will while not even knowing that Will is gay and in love with him.. he said it because he was thinking of Will romantically so he said "we're friends, we're friends" to convince himself not Will

the Duffers called Mike and El their E.T and Elliot (which are platonic friends) and the dead flowers El picked up at the end of s4 were the same flowers Mike gave her at the airport, dead flowers represent a dead relationship, hopefully after the break up they'll be able to communicate more and to actually get to know each other and rhat they'll be actual friends, Mike does love El but he loves her platonically even though he's been tryng to force himself into loving her romantically but he can't because he's gay and in love with Will, parallels here

Byler, Jancy and Lumax all held hands in the same episode in s2

Byler's parallels with Jancy: Nancy couldn't love Steve because she's in love with Jonathan, Mike can't love El because he's gay and in love with Will, Nancy talked to Jonathan about Steve on a car after the break up, Mike talked to Will about El on a car after the fight, Jonathan lied and said Steve asked him to bring Nancy home, Will lied about El commissioning the painting, Nancy yelled Jonathan's name in the upside down and he went to save her, Will yelled Mike's name in the upside down and Mike snapped Will out of his episodes

Byler's parallels with Lumax: Mike stayed with Will in the lab, Lucas stayed with Max in the hospital, Will yelled Mike's name during his episode and Mike snapped him out of his episode, Max yelled Lucas' name and Lucas was there for her, they played a song used in a s2 Lumax scene (on the bus) during Mike and Will's heart to heart and used the interruption trope (a romantic trope) in both scenes

Fun fact: they used "heroes" in s3 again but they cut the "and we kissed as though nothing could fall" lyrics that they used in s1 when Mike was hugging his mom and thinking about Will, those lyrics are reserved to Byler and I think they're gonna use this song again during Byler's first kiss, Acid (a leaker) said that Mike's arc in s5 is about self-discovery (which could be Mike understanding who he belongs with, Will) and that he's not gonna try to be normal (straight, Finn said that Mike was trying to be normal in s3 and s4) in s5, plus I think Mike and Will are gonna have another rain fight before the kiss since Shawn Levy hinted at another Byler rain fight, plus s5 is gonna be Will centric and Mike and Will's relationship is gonna be really important in s5

In the first picture Mike is looking at Will (the boy he's in love with) and in the second picture Trevor is looking at Lucky (the girl he has a crush on), Netflix posted this on Instagram

Mike and Will are gonna spend s5 together as a team (Jopper parallel) and their relationship is gonna be really important in s5, also Will is definitely staying at Mike's since he's hanging out with Mike and Holly so much

Mike is filming a lot of scenes with Robin (canon lesbian character) because he's gay, Will is gonna clean his boyfriend's wounds <33, is Robin gonna be Mike and Will's gay mentor and help them get together? i would love that, Mike and Will are sharing two pair of jeans and sharing stuff is a thing for couples

He called El a weapon in s1 and he wanted to send her back to the lab and only changed his mind when he realized she knew where Will was and that she could help him find him, he absolutely DID NOT fall in love with her her at first sight, if he actually loved her he would've chosen a moment where he actually showed that he was in love with her, plus he's gay and in love with Will, He said he fell for El at first sight because he saw Argyle say something similar about Eden and he tried to copy him, he got caught for plagiarizing something at school so it wouldn't be the first time for him doing that, plus he copied what Eddie said about Dustin and said it to El, plus the Duffers said that they don't believe in love at first sight and the first thing Mike said/thought when he first saw El was "that's not Will", he was trying to recreate the shed scene except that in s2 they won and no one lied to him and his words to Will were genuine and sincere while in s4 Will lied to him and made him think El commissioned the painting (which is why he said those things, he didn't know what to say before Will said "you're the heart") and they lost

The actress who plays Suzie ships Byler, Noah and Finn also ship Byler and Brett also ships Byler and Millie ships Byler and the actor who plays younger Henry ships Byler

why did they make Mike say he loved El in s3 and then made him say he forgot he said it and then in s4 he couldn't say it anymore? it makes no sense because he knows El heard him and he just could've just said it again to her face in s3 instead of acting dumb, also in s4 he put the blame on other people instead of on himself and instead of trying to comfort El and he was all defensive and stuff like Nancy when she broke up with Steve, Mike meant it platonically and he's gay

CALEB SAID THEY MADE PLAYLISTS FOR THEIR CHARACTERS, SO STURN (Finn made this playlist) IS ABOUT MIKE AND HE'S GAY (it has lyrics like "it's so easy to lie to myself and pretend that I could love you but I can't" which is about mlvn and "besides I don't want to be the one whose coming out first") which is about Mike wanting Will to come out as gay first because he's scared and it has a song about a milkshake and about how a relationship wasn't built to last (which is also about mlvn since they had milkshakes in s4), and he could also be referring to Mike's bassment beats, which has smalltown boy on it and that song is a gay song about a gay man leaving his homophobic town to find a new life and Finn said he wants Mike to leave Hawkins, or maybe it's the Wheeel playlist, Mike (Wheel)er, Finn made it for Mike, you use the wheel to drive and he put a song called "gay thoughts" in it because Mike is gay

Noah liked a byler edit yesterday (he already knows how the show ends since he's read the last episode script and he knows the endgames, so Mike and Will are gonna date)

Lukas from eyewitness is gay and has internalized homophobia and dated a girl to try and be normal, Mike is gay and has internalized homophobia and he's doing the same thing with El and Lukas has some parallels with Mike

these colors represent El, Will and Mike (i love how Mike is next to his boyfriend instead of in the middle) also i love that Mike wears make up (i have no idea what that thing does), Will is Mike's favorite <33

Will's love interest and boyfriend, they're gonna spend s5 together I can't wait, Mike and Will are still filming together and they're filming the final episodes, they're gonna be a team

Mike thinks he's unlovable but Will loves him like breathing <33, and he makes Mike feel loved instead of insicure and he understands him like no one else could and loves him the way Mike wants to be loved

Mike is wearing Will's clothes again, sharing clothes is a thing for couples

"Mike was always super protective of Will and Will always leaned on him, and you could never really tell if it was something romantic or just a really special friendship, and as it goes on you kinda realize that Will does.. am i allowed to say this?" we already know that Will is in love with Mike, why couldn't he say it? Why is it a spoiler? Because Mike loves him back and he confirmed that Will is still in love with Mike and he's not moving on, reminder that Noah has read the script of the last episode and he knows all the endgames (including Byler)

Mike's monologue made El angry and she knows he was lying to her, does she also know that Mike is gay? She knows Mike doesn't love her in a romantic way even if he tried to in s4

well now that we know that Will is still in love with Mike and that he's not moving on from him.. this leaker basically confirmed that Mike is gonna be Will's boyfriend (they made Will spell "lover" in the words game in the s5 bts pic)

So basically Mike is gonna go on a journey of self-discovery in s5 (accepting that he's gay and in love with Will)

Noah and Finn cried during the final table read , the Duffers said that they put a lot of time in the show to have a proper pay off and the fact that Finn said that the van scene will pay off in the end??

Noah saying: "Mike was always super protective of Will and Will always leaned on him, and you could never really tell if it was something romantic or just a really special friendship" Cara Buono saying: "Mike goes on his journey in s5" (self discovery, accepting that he's gay and in love with Wll), Millie dodging the monologue question, her becoming a byler after reading the s5 scripts, Noah and Finn both crying at the final table read, Finn saying that the van scene will pay off in the end (the Duffers told him that), the Duffers saying that they put a lot of time in the show to have a proper pay off, Mike and Will sharing clothes and Will's shoes in s5, Finn making that STurn gay playlist about Mike and Caleb confirming that they made s5 playlists for their characters

"Mike was always super protective of Will and Will always leaned on him, and you could never really tell if it was something romantic or just a really special friendship"

"bye Will, see you Will🥰"

THIS MIKE WAS ALREADY IN LOVE WITH WILL :(

THIS Mike realized he was in love with Will, this part of the letter matches with Mike's thoughts so well, he wants things to go back to how they were in s2 when things weren't awkward and he didn't know he was in love with Will

THEY'RE IN LOVE

"only love makes you that crazy sweetheart"

"crazy together"

THIS Mike was already in love with Will and he thought he lost him forever without being able to confess to him :(

"Mike was always super protective of Will and Will always leaned on him, and you could never really tell if it was something romantic or just a really special friendship" this scene was always supposed to have romantic undertones because they're in love with each other

them playing "every smile you fake" while Will was faking a smile while dancing with a girl (he's canonically in love with Mike) them playing "and we kissed as though nothing could fall" while Mike hugging his mom while thinking about Will (because he's in love with Will), them using these lyrics was intentional

Karen Wheeler wanted to read lines for Joyce's play with Patty so she could kiss her, she's bisexual, she's queer like Mike

Byler looking at each other's lips <33 also Mike noticed something was wrong with Will before Will touched his neck because he was already looking at Will instead of watching the movie <33 i love the Byler and Lumax double date sm and Mike being a protective and worried boyfriend over Will

happy 7 years of this scene which was basically a love confession <33 in "st the first shadow" Henry was possessed by the Mindflayer (like Will) and Patty used the "power of love" (like Mike) to help Henry, and Will used the hand Mike held to communicate to the others to close the gate so basically gay love saved Hawkins <33

Mike has all the things he loves the most in his room, a wizard (Will) and buff men <33, and a buff male dragon for some reasons and he has Will's drawings in his room

the Duffers put "the Birdcage" on the s4 DNA board which is about a GAY MAN pretending to be straight in the same season where Finn said that Mike was trying to be as NORMAL as possible and where he was acting awkward around Will and in the season where he kept staring at Will's lips and where they played a song called "in the closet at rink o mania" when the camera panned to Mike and he started talking again", the closet is thin air atp, he's so gay

in s5 Mike is gonna go on a journey of self-discovery (accepting that he's gay and in love with Will),and he's not gonna try to be normal anymore Finn said that Mike was trying to be normal in s3 and s4 (he was trying to be straight), "he might be into some new things" (men), dnd is not new for him so the Hellfire Club was not new for him, the word "normal" has only been associated to the queer characters of st

the fact that Mike was trying to make things less gay but he made it gayer by acting weird around his "best friend" who he has "no feelings" for... like all Will wanted was a hug from his best friend of a decade.. homotron 7000 can't even hug his "best friend" anymore who may i remind you has NO IDEA WIll is gay and literally thought Will had a crush on a girl and made the painting for her and Mike got jealous and petty about it... oh and in s2 and s3 he had no problems with hugging Will or being physical with him..

if it was because they drifted away they would've made Will act awkward around Mike too but they didn't, It was confirmed by Finn twice that Mike has no idea Will is gay and he thought Will had a crush on a girl so why was he acting like that? Cuz he was jealous of the girl and gay panicking about Will's glow up

Mike uses his Will voice in Dustin's book and he's afraid of losing Will (and El), Dustin mentions all the things in his healthy relationship with Suzie (like having things in common and being honest with each other) and Mike can't relate to that (they spent s3 and s4 lying to each other) and he doesn't know what to talk to El about, this book was made by a professional writer who's a Byler shipper

in s2 in the shed scene they showed Byler while the lyrics said "if you say that you are mine" "i'll be here till the end of time" , they're the only fully romantic lyrics in the song

THIS was Mike's pov not Will's which is why Will is blurred out but after this Mike turns to Will and he looks happy but then Mike looks back at El and he looks sad and i think there are 2 reasons for that

1 he was scared of how El would react to the truth (he's gay and in love with Will)

2 he was trying to make Will jealous (cuz he knew Will was in love with him during that moment) but then he noticed that it didn't work and he got sad about it, at the airport he was also trying to make Will jealous by kissing El's cheek after he learned that Angela would be at rink o mania (and he thought Will had a crush on Angela), the parallels with Rovickie were intentional cuz we're gonna have 2 queer couples instead of one

they called the van scene the most heartfelt scene in s4? heartfelt means: from the heart, sincere, genuine, which means Mike lied during the monologue cuz they could've called that scene the most heartfelt scene of s4 but they didn't

Holly is gonna go missing but at least Mike and Will are gonna look for her together in the upside down <33 (and maybe that's where they're gonna confess and kiss?), they posted Byler, Jancy and Jopper for st day (and Robin and Vickie's chairs)

maybe we'll get a Byler rain kiss? because in August Noah posted a picture of Byler and a bts picture of him sitting on a chair wrapped in a towel and Shawn acknowledged a post that said that they wanted another angsty Byler scene like the s3 rain fight, hopefully they'll play heroes during Byler's first kiss

Mike said "I didn't know what to say" about his fight with El as if she wasn't literally begging him to say the words "I love you" AND Mike relating and nodding to Will saying "what if they don't like the truth?" Why wouldn't El like Mike "loving" her? She literally heard Mike saying it in s3 and she liked it, so why was Mike so scared of the truth? Because he's gay and in love with Will and he has abandonment issues AND internalized homophobia and he's depressed, the El scene has another meaning behind it: Nina waiting for her lover to come back but he doesn't come back and Nina leaving the station= Mike not being able to love El the way she wants to be loved and her breaking up with Mike in s5 (tho i think it will be a mutual break up)

in s4 Mike bit his lip while checking Will out, because he's gay and in love with Will

Mike listened to his boyfriend's heart in s1, he was so happy to see Will<3, I hope we'll get a scene where Will listens to Mike's heart instead, maybe while they're cuddling in s5?

all the s5 couples were next to each other at the end of s4 <33 (Byler, Rovickie, Jancy, Lumax and Jopper)

Mike used his Will voice a lot in s2, the Will voice is a softer voice he only uses with Will/ when something is about Will

Mike was trying to love El the way he loves Will (romantically) but it didn't work cuz he's gay and then he got all defensive cuz he's not actually in love with her but he's in love with Will, like with the "crazy together" thing and the "blank makes you crazy" and the shed monologue (which actually worked) and the s4 monologue (which didn't work)

the leaker (my time to shine hello) who said that Mike is gonna be Will's love interest got a thing right from Agatha all along that they said would happen (Billy dressing up as Maleficent) so this leaker is reliable and Mike is gonna be Will's love interest and boyfriend

one of the guys Mike was looking at had a rainbow flag on his book, just a funny little detail, and the clock was ticking (Vecna detail?), maybe the fact that he only likes boys will be what gets him Vecna'd?, Mike has been associated with rainbows before (and Will has drawns a rainbow spaceship when he was younger, he's canonically gay)

Mike caressing Will's drawings was so gay, new headcanon: Mike caresses Will's drawings while imagining it's Will's face, oh and i NEED to see people use this scene to transition to Mike stroking Will's cheek in s5 after/before the kiss

"I love you on your bad days" no he doesn't..

*cuts to Mike not even trying to comfort El at rink o mania and sitting close to Will even after they had a fight*

*cuts to all three of them looking upset in the van and Mike only looking at Will while El was crying*

*cuts to Mike comforting Will while he was possessed in s2, him taking care of Will, him being super protective of Will, him literally saying they'd go crazy together, him staying overnight with Will at the lab to make sure he was ok, him acting and talking softer around Will*

*Mike telling El he was already in love with her in the woods*

*cuts to Mike saying "that's not Will" in the trailer when he first sees El* (which is what he was thinking in the show)

*cuts to El listening to Mike wanting to send her back to the lab in s1 (and only changed his mind when he realized she knew where Will was), Mike calling El a weapon and saying "we're no use to Will if we're dead"*

*cuts to s4 Mike saying meeting El was simple dumb luck*

"I love you without your powers"

*cuts to Mike only focusing on her powers and calling her a superhero (superman) has he ever complimented something about her that weren't her powers or her looks? No, why? Because they don't communicate and aren't honest with each other*

like he was literally lying to her face bffr, stfu gay boy in denial, what a hypocrite..

Not to mention that Finn made a face he makes when his character lies before saying "i love you"

Imagine Will teaching Mike how to use a gun in st5 and their faces are really close to each other and he notices that Will's voice has really gone deeper over the years and he starts blushing and gay panicking about it (I want this to happen before they start dating), and then they start leaning in and they're about to kiss but Jonathan interrupts them and we have a Byler almost kiss before their first kiss and imagine Will trying to get closer the guy who hits on him in s5 and he starts bringing him to their party hang outs and the guy starts getting protective of Will and Mike starts getting jealous about it so they have a fight in the rain and Mike says "what? You don't need me anymore?" And that's how it's revealed that Mike knows Will lied about the painting and then Mike kisses Will and Will is shocked and at first he doesn't kiss him back so Mike panics and says he's sorry and has soon as he's about to leave Will grabs his arm and pulls him into a passionate kiss and imagine Will changing in Mike's room and Mike walks in on shirtless Will and he blushes and starts gay panicking about it, imagine this.. st5 starts and we get a Byler kiss but then it turns out it was just a dream but then we see Mike suddenly wake up and he sits up and he's sweating cuz he was the one who has dreaming of that and then Will asks if he's ok and we find out that Will is next to him in bed and we get a parallel to the s2 Miwi scene

#let Mike see his boyfriend's muscles, because Mike likes muscly men or men who are stronger than him (Will)

imagine this.. st5 starts and we get a Byler kiss but then it turns out it was just a dream but then we see Mike suddenly wake up and he sits up and he's sweating cuz he was the one who has dreaming of that and then Will asks if he's ok and we find out that Will is next to him in bed and we get a parallel to the s2 Miwi scene

Ted was cheating on Karen in the play, Karen was emotionally cheating on Ted with Billy, Nancy was emotionally cheating on Steve with Jonathan, Mike is emotionally cheating on El with Will

It runs in the family

The Wheelers are a family of cheaters/emotiona cheaters and Karen and Ted don't like each other and in the play they were just making out and didn't communicate at all (like mlvn)

i do think Murray was talking about Mike and Will but i think he meant it like experiment in a gay way (romantically) like Mike kissing Will, and it's so funny how he clocked them being gay within a second, he mentioned playing nintendo and Will in the van said he wanted to play nintendo with Mike

does this count as Byler getting Murray'd?

El's words "i think there is someone he likes cuz he has been acting weird" relate more to Mike cuz he was the one acting weird around Will while Will was just happy his best friend was there with him and this scene parallels Hermione acting weird around Ron cuz she likes him and they're an endgame couple, "Harry Potter and the chamber of secrets" was on the s4 inspiration board

the pineapple pizza scene was so queercoded for both Mike and El like Mike calling fruit on pizza blasphemous (against God) and not wanting to try it because he grew up in a homophobic and conservative town and he has internalized homophobia and prejudice but then when he tried it he said it was good (while the camera was on Will) while El grew up in a lab and obviously she doesn't have any prejudice or bias against things so she just tried it without complaining because Max told her that to understand what you like you have to try things on and she said it was good and they already used food to indicate queerness like Vickie with peanut butter (putting peanut butter on both slices of bread and called it a peanu butter monstrosity and she had a boyfriend who broke up with her and she likes Robin and will be her girlfriend in s5 and Mike's been paralleled to her and he's in love with Will) and she's bisexual, so basically Mike's gonna kiss Will first (and Will's gonna kiss him back), i also think Max is bisexual because she said "there's more to life than stupid boys" while Will said "a day free of girls" because he's gay and Mike said "i have an idea, boys only" because he's gay, they already used food for symbolism, Mike wants to feel needed, Will needs him and El doesn't

Noah's switch up is crazy cuz now he knows that Mike and Will are gonna get together since he's read the final s5 script "you guys are gonna get me in trouble" "am i allowed to say this?" and he used to say things like "BYLERBYLERBYLER" on Tik Tok and "yes, something went right for him" (for Will) he was definitely talking about Mike loving Will back

can we talk about Finn saying "yeah i'm super excited to see my gf in California but deep down there's some trauma but that doesn't came out"? why would having a gf give Mike trauma? and it's the same season where he said Mike was trying to be as normal as possible.. (he's gay and in love with Will)

when Joyce said "you're not gonna think it's gross when you fall in love" she meant " when you find a bf" but she didn't want Will to realize that she knows that he's gay and when Will said this he meant "i'm not gonna find a bf" (Will's boyfriend is gonna be Mike), if Byler wasn't gonna be a thing they would've given Will a boyfriend in s2 since Will was already in love with Mike in s1 but they didn't, while with Dustin they gave him a gf in s3 cuz Max liked Lucas instead of him and they made him move on from Max, they didn't do this with Will cuz Mike loves him back, Will's character arc is about getting romantic love even though he thinks he doesn't deserve it cuz he's gay andh he's gonna get proved wrong in s5

"and the guns shot above our heads and we kissed as though nothing could fall" they're SO gonna use heroes during Byler's first kiss in s5 (hopefully Bowie's version?), also Mike being protective of Will. he loves him so much <33 they played these lyrics while Mike was thinking about Will in s1 and when they used this song again in s3 they didn't use these lyrics cuz they're reserved to Byler

this video by teambyler explains Mike and Will's relationship really well

AIDS mentions in the show/ in the bts (mentioned in scenes with Mike and Will who are gay)

MIKE AND WILL ARE GONNA GRADUATE TOGETHER AS A TEAM (COUPLE) <33, this means that they're not gonna die and they're getting their happy ending together btw and Noah and Finn said that Will is getting his happy ending (which includes his boyfriend's being alive) and the Duffers said that they won't kill Mike because it would be too sad, Mike and Will are gonna leave Hawkins together after the graduation and Smalltown Boy is gonna play during that scene #trust (Finn said he wants Mike to leave Hawkins), hopefully we'll see Byler together at senior prom? obviously they can't dance together but i would love to see them go there as a secret couple or idk maybe they could go dance in a classroom just the two of them? Like the two boys dancing in a classroom she sees (it's from Rebel Robin), according to Rebel Robin Byler is gonna be the second gay couple she's ever seen <33 i hope they'll come out to her because they're gonna have scenes together, i hope her gaydar works

purple is a gay color (this is about s5 Mike wearing purple, he's gay), Will's also gonna survive in 1989 and Will's costume was purple in s3, he's also gay)

David Harbour talks about Stranger Things 5: “There are a lot of relationships that they (the Duffer Brothers) know they need to tie up, and I think they're doing a very good job at that. I think you'll be very satisfied when you watch it.” same season where Finn said that Mike being clueless about Will's feelings in the van scene will pay off in the end and Noah said that "Mike was always super protective of Will and Will always leaned on him, and you could never really tell if it was something romantic or just a really special friendship" btw, reminder that the Ross Duffer said that Will's emotional arc is what ties up the whole series and s5 is centered around Will (and his relationship with Mike), and Finn said that the painting will pay off in s5 and Noah said that you can't tell if Byler is romantic or platonic, and Will's emotional arc is based on romantic love and him thinking he doesn't deserve it cuz he's gay (he's gonna get proved wrong in s5 when he starts dating Mike)

This post was very sweet it was a draft that he was supposed to post when he actually wraps up and that's why he deleted it and didn't post it again, not all the s5 Will Byers scenes have been filmed yet, he's scheduled in Atlanta until December 20th, what if he was talking about Byler when he mentioned the Duffers? "creative progress takes time, and it's ok to be meticulous about creating perfect moments " Byler is a slow burn that took 5 seasons and he's a Byler

really funny that Mike wore converse in s4 (which are really gay shoes) because he thought Eddie (his unrequited gay puppy crush) would wear them (the costume designer said it), before y'all start saying stuff i'm just gonna say that Dustin had a puppy crush on Nancy in s1 and Max checked Steve out in s4, also Mike was looking at Eddie like this and fever was playing in the background and the costume designer said that Mike was influenced by Eddie in s4 and i think Mike grew his hair out because of Eddie and he was staring at Jake (he didn't know he was a bully) and accidentally said "El" instead of "Jane" because he was distracted ,isn't it funny that they showed Mike showing attraction for multiple boys (Will, Eddie and Jake) but they only showed Mike having "attraction" for only one girl while he was disgusted by all the other girls? Dustin and Lucas (who are straight) have shown attraction to multiple girls

Finn said that they costume made the jacket so them putting a triangle on Mike's jacket was intentional (triangles are a queer symbol), the costume designer said that they put triangles on Robin's shirt to represent her queerness (she's a lesbian), Mike is gay

in the script it says that El was supposed to draw on the map but they changed it in the show to foreshadow Mike and Will getting together and El being happy about it and they made Milie draw the figures multiple times to allign them with Mike and Will

i think Mike is gonna say "let's start a new party, you and me" to Will as a way of asking him out after he tells him about the Hellfire Club cuz yk they're nerds and maybe he's gonna say to Will "you know what? no more joining other parties (double meaning: relationships), let's start a new party, you and me" (a relationship with Will), because Mike said "what if you wanna join another party?" and Will said "not possible" and on the cover of that book there are a paladin and a cleric (Mike and Will's dnd characters)

1987 Byler riding bikes with Holly, 1987 Byler on a field together, 1989 Byler graduating together and going to college together and maybe living together, 90's Byler going to a bar together, now all we need is 90's Byler at a gay bar together and dancing with each other

[evie-doesnt-write]

I don’t know how to say this exactly but like… fandom and show are kinda weird about Mel and Ekko and it is very much rooted in racism

[gayofthefae]

Just leaving this here <3333

[givehimthemedicine]

time for my big lumax rantpost. I used to be way more of a shipper but upon reexamining some of my GA-era assumptions, I'm here to tell you why it sucks, and why I don't look forward to lumax endgame if it's the same lumax we've been getting.

lumax has fantastic potential, but needs lots of work to actually become the ship most of the fandom thinks it is.

I get the sense most on here consider lumax ST's darling perfect ship which is sullied by weak and/or racist writing. while I wouldn't argue at all that the writing does right by Lucas, I do think it's important to recognize lumax as an intentionally-written badly flawed relationship, NOT a poorly-written perfect relationship. (the writing for 5 has a lot to prove so we'll see)

lumax is obviously happening. no ending to Lucas's story makes sense other than him getting the girl. however, I don't like that from either character's standpoint.

from hers - Max is not a prize. and from his - Max is no prize.

Max is a pretty shitty girlfriend.

we've never seen her show Lucas any interest in learning anything about him. I can't remember a time she's complimented him, said anything nice about him, or done anything purely for his benefit. virtually all of their serious conversations have been about her, and the scant few that are sort of about him are inevitably just a lead-in to him offering support to her.

Lucas and Max's relationship - pre, during, and post dating - is 100% about what he can do for her. he's the one making 100% of the effort.

it seems like most of their interactions are him walking on eggshells trying to placate, reassure, or convince her, all for the reward of.... what. being allowed to continue existing near her? like yeah, she's a cool girl, but. that can't be it.

what good is getting the girl if the girl doesn't really offer anything?

. . .

through the seasons, semiquickly:

season 2

Lucas and Dustin both like Max, so they invite her trick or treating, offering to protect her from bullies and show her where the good candy is. in other words, the first Max / Lucas interaction is him offering something to benefit her. Max returns no appreciation or even response to the invite, yet still shows up to reap the benefits.

that pretty much sets the tone.

Max wants to be included, but that's a sensitive subject, so she puts on aloof airs to protect herself. it's an act, but nonetheless it's all Lucas receives.

the facade slips on multiple occasions though; Lucas is permitted to see her vulnerability, and we can see she's actually more desperate to make the connection than he is.

Dustin seeks Steve's manipulation tactics to use on Max, but Lucas wins her over by treating her like an equal and offering her genuine friendship.

he risks both his place in the party and his safety/life to include her, gives his undivided attention when she talks to him, asks questions that show his interest and concern, he reassures, uplifts and compliments her, and physically protects her.

in return, Max. uhh. well she does apologize for being a jerk, although she doesn't exactly stop, lmao. this is one of only two moments I can think of when Max reveals any regard for what Lucas thinks of her.

lumax is off-balance before it even starts, although s2 is when I think that dynamic is most permissible. since Max is a newcomer, Lucas has the advantage in many respects, and it makes sense for him to be the one extending a hand to her.

when Billy attacks Lucas for hanging out with Max, he could be gravely hurt if not for Steve taking the beating instead. Max joins in the momentary group hug but never says a word about this. (I suspect the writers mean for Max's bus apology to have proactively served as a veiled "sorry my stepbro is racist" but more felt needed in that moment.)

then they go to the dance and she kisses him and it's cute and everything is happy for ten whole seconds.

between 2 and 3

even though the summer of '85 is "the good days," this relationship is already careening downhill.

we learn that Max has dumped Lucas five times - such a regular occurrence that he takes it in stride and is well practiced at winning her back as a result.

unfortunately it's Lucas taking to heart the "happy wife happy life" policy from his dad that's set up lumax as something that seems to serve only Max. her awareness of the policy means she holds all the cards.

season 3

Max has secured her place in the party and the relationship, and now it's time for her to bring something to the table, but I honestly can't name one thing. it's still Lucas bending over backwards and Max sometimes being a bit of a jerk. (another act. we'll come back to this)

from the start of 3 we see an excessively secure Max and an obsequious Lucas. she doesn't show him any of the vulnerability that made her endearing in 2. they share fun moments, but we can infer that she doesn't treat him very well in ways that matter.

at one point she even plays mad just to watch him panic. you get the feeling this boy can never feel secure in his relationship. yeah she's just teasing, but do you think Lucas is allowed to tease too?

when El comes to Max for advice, she tells her that "boyfriends lie all the time" and this is before we see Lucas lie to her.

when Mike comes to Lucas for advice, he confidently schools him on how to get back in El's good graces by buying her a present - making clear he's been following his dad's advice all summer long and it's been working:

L: Dad? When Mom's mad at you, how do you make her not mad? C: First, I apologize. Then, I get your mother whatever she wants. L: Even when she's wrong? C: She's never wrong, son.

the mall confrontation is the first time we see Lucas really lie to Max, but even then, the girls don't actually have proof Nana isn't sick.

it's telling, actually, that Lucas's loyalty goes to Mike instead of Max in this moment. in s2 it was the other way around (Lucas pissed off the whole party by including her in the group and telling her the truth - a technically banishable offense). but now he's back to his s1 bros before hoes policy, and not only backs up but expands on Mike's lie. after dating almost a year, his loyalty to Max should be even stronger, but here we see the opposite. if Max had been at least as good a friend to him as Mike, I'm inclined to think he would at least have tried to be noncommittal here.

Max is so confident Lucas will have nothing on his mind but winning her back, as always - meanwhile who we actually see Lucas apologizing to is Will.

she may have had Lucas wrapped around her little finger all summer, but we're seeing that start to uncoil. if Lucas apologizes, it's offscreen.

when Billy tries to break out of the sauna to kill Max, Lucas slingshots him and body shields Max during the fight. next thing you know, Max is back to being cliquey with El in the bathroom (making fun of Mike even though he was the only one who did anything to save El's life?? girl you're being shitty to boyfriends that aren't even yours)

they seem to be a couple again by the end of 3, but the relationship is weakened...

between 3 and 4

..which sets the scene for how the two apparently drift when Max ends it once again. she's not playing this time - she uses the term "break up" instead of "dump" and Lucas has accepted that it's over.

depression makes it hard for Max to connect with him, but the way she treated him in 3 has likely also eaten away at his insistence on prioritizing her. if you push someone away over and over you can't be too surprised if they stay further away each time.

so Max withdraws socially and Lucas apparently doesn't go to his usual lengths to pursue her.

he's still making effort though! the "stalking" comment makes it clear he's been trying to approach her. we know he's been inviting her to his basketball games. him already knowing her favorite song as of 4x4 is more evidence of him taking an interest in her between seasons.

he clearly still cares a lot about Max, but good for him for pursuing his own hobbies and friendships as well.

season 4

Lucas finally asks Max to do something to support him for once (come to his game), but she shuts it down hard.

we know Max still cares about him, but that's just it - WE know. he doesn't. to his face, it's bristling rejection even while he literally begs for the chance to support her.

saving Max's life is a group effort, but Lucas knowing her favorite song is the key that saves her life, and it's only after that that she's friendly towards him again.

the only time I can recall Max expressing any concern for Lucas's wellbeing is when she asks if he's okay in 4x6 - and he only gets a few sentences to process Patrick's death before it's time for him to turn it into an apology to her. sigh.

Lucas is the only one of Max's friends to voice any objection to her suicide mission of a Vecna plan, and pitches for them to gamble a stranger's life instead. he once again risks his life to hang out in the Creel house with Max, personally taking on the huge responsibility of making sure she doesn't die.

Vol 2 Max finally shows Lucas some long-awaited appreciation ("you might have been there" and "I'm glad you're here") which is very nice to see.

I'm conflicted about the movie invite scene, but we'll talk about that later. textually: he asks her out, she accepts, it's totes adorbs.

unfortunately, Max being tranced out by the time Jason walks in means it's time for Lucas once again to get attacked by an older, stronger guy who's wrongly convinced he's a danger to her. (again not her fault, but kinda because of her)

everything goes sideways, Max gets Vecna'd, and Lucas holds her while she dies. we end on a bruised Lucas sitting loyally at Max's bedside, reading to her just in case she can hear it inside her coma.

Lucas hasn't been perfect but he has spent yet another season physically protecting and emotionally supporting Max at great personal expense, and with little appreciation and no support in return.

. . .

the movie doodle didn't fix lumax

Max has had an epiphany, but a change of behavior has scarcely begun. being nice isn't the same as making amends. they've resolved zero of the old issues, plus 4 (even if the plan had worked) has heaped a ton of new shit on both of them.

she's still a grieving, neglected, depressed and passively suicidal child of a triply-broken home. dating doesn't fix that. they already broke up once under the same conditions.

plus Max has new catastrophic emotional traumas, some of which which explicitly exacerbate those very issues. she has catastrophic injuries and disability to cope with (and this is a girl who withdraws under stress normally). with a shred of realism, she's waking up in less a mood for dating than ever.

Lucas has also taken on new traumas, between the basketball team stuff, getting beaten up and almost shot/strangled, and watching Max get Vecna'd and die. he already has a history of guilt about not being there for her enough, so he's going to have a lot more about failing her in that moment (definitely not his fault but he'll still feel bad) and will likely be even more focused on her.

to me, this all sounds like a recipe for the same old dynamic except worse than ever. if they get sleeping beauty'd directly back into lumax, it'll be a disservice to both characters.

. . .

now let's talk about why Max treats Lucas the way she does 🔬

she's not a conniving bitch, she's just a scared kid from a toxic home. that doesn't excuse her behavior but it does make it understandable.

Max CAN be a great friend. she's just not to Lucas.

Max absolutely showers El with the good qualities she'll barely show Lucas. in fact I could loosely say Max is to El what Lucas is to Max.

Max is suspicious and disparaging towards Lucas, even while trusting that he can be counted upon to grovel. meanwhile El never apologizes for intentionally hurting Max both physically and emotionally, yet the moment El acknowledges her (only because she wants help), Max is instantly forgiving, kind, gentle, caring, generous and supportive towards her.

she throws her loyalty behind a friend of 1 afternoon over her boyfriend of a year who's been the only person in Hawkins to show her any true kindness and emotional connection.

if Max was half the friend to Lucas that she is to El, she'd be a decent girlfriend. why isn't she?

we can name a few reasons why Max IS so nice to El, but why she ISN'T to Lucas is a separate question. kindness isn't zero-sum.

she told us why. boyfriends lie.

and it's ANY boyfriend, not just hers. Nana's sick? more like Mike's a lying piece of shit! Suzie from camp? fake! Dustin's obviously lying! the only one of the boys Max has never accused of lying is Will - the only one who's been single the whole time.

just. the state of being a boyfriend (or even just liking a girl is close enough), makes any boy automatically a liar.

Max believes "friend" and "boyfriend" are mutually exclusive

"Friends don't lie!" "Yeah, well, boyfriends lie all the time." <- it's all right there.

back in 2 when Lucas was her friend, she was more open and trusting. she gave him the benefit of the doubt that monsters were real and he knew a girl with magic powers. starting to date flipped the switch, and now she doesn't trust him about mundane stuff.

now they're not friends, they're boyfriend/girlfriend, and she expects to be treated in a whole different way, including all the baggage that comes with romantic relationships in her mind.

what baggage?

Max's childhood is full of examples of awful, manipulative men and abusive, broken relationships.

her dad: I'd only be speculating about why her parents' marriage failed, but in 2 Max misses California because her dad is still there, then by 4 acts like it's doubtful he can even be tracked down for delivery of what's basically her suicide letter. it's clear she desired a relationship with her dad but was abandoned. Neil: abusive asshole who rules the household with an iron fist. I'd be shocked if he hasn't abused Susan, and see little reason he wouldn't do it in front of Max (after all, we see him verbally and physically abuse his first wife in front of his son, in a bad fight over suspected lies/infidelity). in his grief over Billy, Neil and Susan have "bad fights" and he leaves the family. he's not missed, but it's still a second abandonment by a father figure. Billy: Max's peer example of guys in relationships: a sleazy, two-faced asshole who treats girls like trash and completely changes his persona to manipulate them for sex or whatever else he wants (Max appears to be all too aware of his sex life and is disgusted). abandonment issues with him too: a good relationship with a big brother would've meant the world to her, but he rejected and probably abused her for years; her letter at his grave reads "ever since you left" - same word she used for Neil.

Max desperately hopes Lucas is an exception to the rule, but these are the behaviors she would naturally fear from any guy she dates.

Max is especially terrified of being abandoned (and that she deserves it)

to be abandoned over and over can naturally leave a kid wondering if it's their fault, if this is the treatment they deserve.

Lucas is overall quite honest, and there's not an abusive bone in his body. the most realistic one of Max's fears to apply to him is that someday he'll leave her, too.

and that's the worst fear Vecna chooses to voice in Lucas's form: realizing he's been wrong about her, that she's fundamentally bad and he's glad she's going to be killed. a gutting abandonment from the guy she most wants to trust.

Vecna-Susan also tells Max that she deserves what's going to happen to her, that she's "broken everything" and that her letters can't make things right. because he's in full Vecna mode when he says it, I just took those as very general condemnations at first. but they hurt even worse when I remember they're still coming from "Susan" - revealing that Max feels she has broken her family.

she wanted Billy to die, and she figures Neil left because Billy died, so that's two of the abandonments being "her fault". if that's true, Max would also feel responsible for destroying her mom's life - having cost her her marriage, home, and financial security.

in her addictions Susans has, in an emotional sense, abandoned Max just like all her other family members - and Max fears she deserves it. how desperate she was for this hug... :(

anyway, back to lumax: let's reexamine those s3 dumpings

what exactly did Lucas even do? we never find out.

on first watch, I took "boyfriends lie" at face value and assumed Lucas got caught fibbing. but that doesn't fit so well.

he's maybe the party member most invested in "friends don't lie". honesty to his friends is a pillar of his character. again, he caused friction in 2 because he so strongly prioritized honesty to Max. to assume based on one line from an unreliable narrator that he randomly became a huge liar over the summer is unfair.

via their counseling of Mike and El, Lucas and Max tell us what's been going on with lumax

Max tells El:

He'll come crawling back to you in no time, begging for forgiveness. I guarantee him and Lucas are totally wallowing in self-pity and misery right now like "ohh, I hope they take us back!"

I think we all clocked that one: Max thinks that because El followed her technique, Mike will come crawling back - because Lucas has come crawling back to her several times now.

but I haven't seen much discussion about how the spying scene (which "he'll come crawling back" is paired with) shows Lucas assuring Mike that he's been dumped for an unfair and illogical reason because that's what Max has done to him several times now.

M: I just don't understand what I did to deserve this. L: Nothing. Nothing. That's my whole point. You are the victim here. Stop asking rational questions. M: I know, I know, you're right. Because women act on emotion and not logic. L: Precisely. It's a totally different species.

Max is pissed. but has she been irrational, acting on emotion and not logic, and dumping him for no apparent reason all summer? signs point to yes.

and I understand Lucas saying this. it's not pure misogyny out of nowhere; he's been told that his mother expects gifts and apologies even when wrong, Max acts that way too, and now so apparently does El. all of his examples concur that this is just how women in relationships are. (Charles Sinclair how many relationships will your advice destroy lmao)

both Max and Lucas are bringing preconceptions from home.

Max acts this way on purpose

I don't think she's dumped him over truly nothing (although that's how it looks to him). I'm thinking she blows real, minor missteps out of proportion.

any time Lucas does something slightly insensitive, it looks like the first red flag to her, and instead of communicating in a constructive way, she just throws up this "boys aint shit" force field and dumps him. of course she doesn't truly want to be rid of him, she's just sorta snapping the leash.

I think Max knows what she's doing. I think she wants to keep Lucas always on his back foot, because the relationship isn't as scary if she feels like she holds all the power.

she's always trying to cover up fear/sorrow with anger, because anger gives an illusion of control. and she's been conscious of that anger, and the fact that it's unfair to Lucas, since the beginning - that's what she apologized for on the bus. "I guess I'm angry too, and I'm sorry."

she was mature enough at 13 to see the error in her behavior, but still not mature enough by 15 to fix it. every season has just been a slightly different flavor of "leave before you get left".

so, that's my take on Max's relationship behavior. but again, explanations aren't excuses. Lucas deserves to be treated well, and that's not happening.

what needs to happen?

simply maturing more will help them both a lot. being 15 is a terrible condition in of itself.

I don't see Lucas dumping Max's ass, but she should take her own advice before the relationship continues: explain herself and fix the garbage parts of her behavior.

before Max can be the girlfriend Lucas deserves, she needs a substantial period of physical and emotional healing.

she needs renewed connections with her friends and family, and a lot of general growth in the area of communication and processing her feelings.

in regards to Lucas, she needs to work on her trust issues, and learn to extend him the treatment warranted by his behavior, not the behavior she fears from others. she needs to learn that "friend" and "girlfriend" aren't mutually exclusive, that real friendship is the key to their relationship, and is a two-way street.

any Billy racism/assault acknowledgement would be better years late than never, especially if grieving Billy continues to be a focus in front of Lucas.

Lucas could also use a little work

the relentless positivity doesn't serve Max well. often it turns out to be empty reassurances which make her feel let down (so, a soft version of the lies she fears). she let him know in 4x4 that this hurts her, but he kept doing it for the rest of the season.

but the big one is that "happy wife happy life" doesn't serve him well, and rewarding unfair treatment perpetuates the problem. yes, the ability to compromise, swallow pride, and be the bigger person are healthy parts of a relationship, as well as the willingness to extend grace to your partner/friend when they're struggling. but it always being on one designated person is a recipe for dissatisfaction and resentment.

Lucas should voice to Max that he, too, has struggles and needs support. I'd like to see him pursue outside interests unapologetically.

no, this isn't an exhaustive list, and I don't expect to see everything fixed at once, or explicitly processed onscreen. but I sure hope we get some evidence of change, and that this has all been part of an arc.

for instance, I'd love for the final lumax reconciliation to be Max asking Lucas to take her back.

I kind of hope not to see them officially together until the very end. in fact I'd so much rather see ST end on a good Max / Lucas friendship with an implied romantic future than jump back to the status quo.

l don't want to see lumax until it's a new lumax, based on real, reciprocal friendship.

[hopsbyers]

it's a lumax thing

[michaelwheelerdefiodental]

The Larrygate

You better NOT mess with my gang 💯

Or you'll be messing with...

Ooopy Goopy

General Munchkin Man

Lil-Jim and Bob

And worst of all...

LARRY

[phoebebuggers]

a long cold war with the kids at the front.

[lizbetlovesbyler]

The Duffers ‘Chemistry Test’

(How the Duffers demonstrate romantic AND platonic chemistry in Stranger Things’ relationships)

When one character starts singing, how does the other react? Are they in harmony?

(alternatively: do they match each others freak?)

“Chemistry” describes the emotional connection between two characters in a relationship. This can be either romantic, platonic, both, or neither.

We know that the Duffer brothers highlighted the importance of music in Stranger Things 4, so let’s look back on it’s uses in earlier seasons.

I’ve noticed a lot of parallels between scenes that focus on the relationship between two characters. One of these two characters will sing, and the other has one of two reactions:

Indulge in the fun

Try and shut it down

Depending on their reaction, we can conclude a lot about what the Duffers want to communicate about the chemistry between two characters.

So let’s look at 6 examples:

Exhibit A: Dustin and Suzie

https://youtu.be/ehtsmxu1w10?si=CGnKM5PubO5lC-V4

This - I think - is the most glaringly obvious example of how the Duffers like to demonstrate chemistry between two characters. Mostly because this scene is purposefully very memorable.

Dustin and Suzie have clearly sung this many times before, we know this because Dustin immediately knows what Suzie wants from him just from her saying “I want to hear it”

At first, he’s embarrassed - all of his friends are listening, friends who didn’t believe until now that Suzie even existed. He doesn’t want to sing it in front of them.

But when Suzie joins in, he’s actually able to forget about the danger they’re all in, he’s doesn’t care everyone is listening, he’s able to indulge. Because he loves Suzie, these moments bring him joy. They bring Suzie joy, too. Just look at this shot of them together, despite being states apart. Because they are in harmony, the distance between them doesn’t matter.

These two cutie patooties pass the chemistry test with flying colours.

Exhibit B: Max and Lucas

(Max and Lucas are presumably also in a relationship at this point in the series, and they don’t break up until after.)

As another couple, the two are mocking Dustin for his relationship - making kissy faces at him and calling him “Dusty-bun”.

However, whilst doing so, they are demonstrating their own chemistry - synchronous clapping, smiling at each other, holding eye contact. When they start singing the second time, they need nothing more than a look from the other before they start again from the same lyric.

Max and Lucas may not have the same romantic dynamic as Dustin and Suzie, after all no two couples are the same, but they will sing to make lighthearted fun at their friend.

It should also be noted that Max didn’t even hear Dustin’s original rendition, she had to hear about the whole ordeal from the others, I’ll wager Lucas sang it enough to Dustin that she picked up on it and joined in. She indulged in the fun.

If Lucas and Max did not have chemistry, Max would’ve been at most only slightly amused in Lucas’ mockery, but she would not have joined in on it (similar to Mike) and might have even told him to knock it off during the time skip if he continued doing it.

These two pass the chemistry test.

Exhibit C: Mike and Eleven

Might be time to start contrasting these examples to other scenes in the same season.

This is our first look at Mike and Eleven as an official couple - and what I would label as the start of their downfall.

(may make a whole post dedicated to this one scene because it speaks volumes about Mike and Els relationship and what the Duffers want us to take away from it in retrospect)

This scene is special because it’s not like the writers are trying to make it glaringly obvious that Mike and El are not a compatible couple. Rather, this scene is disguised as a cute (albeit slightly awkward) scene, hell - i thought it was cute when i first watched it (I was also, you know, 12, but whatever, I’m now 17 I have a very different idea of what romantic relationships actually look like).

It’s only later when we gather the other examples in this post and compare them we can start to see that somethings not quite right with these two cutie pies.

Even whilst they’re still kissing, Mike is pushing Els hands away from him - already not a good sign.

When he pulls away to sing, it’s because he wants a break from constant kissing. From my own experience, I can tell you that making out is very exhausting (especially when you don’t have a lot of chemistry with the person you’re locking lips with).

El reacts very quickly by covering his mouth, she calls his name to grab his attention, she tells him to stop, she gives him a look that just says “What are you doing?”. This is her trying to shut him down. She is not indulging in the fun, even though Mike is trying to make her - he shakes her and her arms, he maintains eye contact. He asks her if she likes it, and she says “No!”.

If the Duffers wanted to portray Mike and El as a couple with chemistry, a better way to portray that could have been to have them just sitting and reading their own respective magazines, when Mike sings, El could have smiled and bopped her head along despite likely not knowing the words. They could have demonstrated that the two enjoy each others company even when they’re not making out, that they are still close, and a kiss goodbye to make it clear to the audience they still have a romantic dynamic.

This scene doesn’t just not do that, it does the opposite. Mike and El are only interested in kissing. When they break up later, it’s for comedic relief.

These two unfortunately do not pass the chemistry test.

Now, due to the very thick romantic tone of this scene, we can conclude that Mike and El do not have romantic chemistry, but we cannot make any conclusions about their platonic chemistry.

What does platonic chemistry look like with Eleven, you ask?

Exhibit D: Max and Eleven

This example is slightly less noticeable, but this scene starts in Elevens room, a parallel to the previous example with Mike.

Max is singing along to the radio, much like Mike was, the only difference is Els reaction. Instead of trying to shut her down, she is bopping her head along to the music. She may not be singing along, but she is still indulging in Max’s behaviour, she’s having fun.

Max and Eleven have platonic chemistry.

Exhibit E: Steve and Nancy

Let’s now look at the very first example of this Chemistry Test the show gives us, way back in season one. It’s so small you may have missed it.

I think this is a very good example of how interactions like these are a two way street.

(For context, Steve is apologising to Nancy for his lack of empathy towards Barbs disappearance, and tries to invite her to a movie to take her mind off it all - note that Nancy is yet to verbally forgive Steve in this scene)

Nancy goes through a lot in the first season, I don’t doubt that even if her and Steve shared romantic chemistry, that she still wouldn’t be in the mood for a little sing song. But Steve still sings to her anyway, he hasn’t picked up on how distraught she is over Barbs disappearance, and how “pretending everything is normal” is not something she wants to do.

What she wants is to go out and look for Barbara with Jonathan - Steve later misinterprets this as them hooking up, completely ignorant to the fact that they both have lost someone they care deeply for when they both feel they could have prevented it (Jonathan was not supposed to be working that evening and Nancy convinced Barb to come to Steve’s even though she didn’t actually want to)

It’s clear Steve is genuinely trying to make amends with her in this scene, but there is still a glaring disconnect in their emotions because Steve does not apologise proportionally to the distress Nancy is in. When he sings to her and tries to make her laugh, he is demonstrating this lack of understanding of her needs and emotions. Of course she doesn’t laugh, she looks away awkwardly and eventually shuts him down.

The lack of chemistry between these two is demonstrated by Steve singing in the first place, then confirmed when Nancy does not indulge.

These two, unsurprisingly, do not pass.

Exhibit F: Steve and Robin

(Skip to the end of this video for a refresher)

This is a very intimate conversation. This time, Steve appreciates that it takes a lot of trust for someone like Robin to talk about what she just has. It takes a lot of love from Robins end to be honest with him as to why they can’t be a couple.

Trust and love that didn’t come from no where, I’ll remind you.

He reacts the way he does because he values Robin as a friend, and as friends do, he picks apart and judges her crushes.

Steve doesn’t have to grasp at straws for something to say, despite having never been in this situation before, despite having never even thought about being in this situation before. He just talks. The right words come out of his mouth because they have that shared love and trust. He just talks and says the right thing because he feels and thinks the right things.

He sings because it’s appropriate for their dynamic and his approach to this conversation as her friend, she indulges to confirm that they are in harmony now their relationship is defined as platonic.

These two have undeniable chemistry. Id argue this is the best example of this Chemistry Test because it’s such a raw and real interaction, even if it only demonstrates a strong platonic bond.

(I would love to see some sort of parallel with Mike and Eleven in S5)

“Great! We have a theory about how the Duffer brothers have previously demonstrated Chemistry, with evidence to support it! … Now what?”

Now we apply it to Season 5 Speculation!

I bring to you a whole three possible applications of this theory.

Number 1: Robin and Vickie

Crucial detail that loads of people overlook about Robin and Vickie - they’re both in band.

We’re constantly reminded of it, too.

Steve to Robin: “You’re worried about a high school pep rally, you expect me to believe that? […] This is about Vickie!”

Our first look at Vickie is during said pep rally, we see Vickie and Robin standing side by side, sharing a glance during the band performance.

We see them interact later that night, during band (again), whilst Tammy Thompson sings the national anthem.

Dustin to Eddie s4 e02: “You know Robin! From band!”

Vickie to her boyfriend when he asks who Robin is: “Someone from band.”

Robin and Vickie are in harmony, even in their limited on screen interactions, because they both play music together.

It’s also worth noting that both of their instruments are wind instruments. We know that the both of them struggle to stop themselves from rambling, so their best interactions are during band, they do not have to worry about finding the right words because they literally cannot talk.

According to the Duffer Brothers, Robin and Vickie have chemistry. Rovickie endgame - next please!

Number 2: Steve and Nancy

Let’s be so fr they are not getting back together.

This post is one of many arguments as to why they should not and will not become a couple again in s5.

I said “next, please!”

Number 3: Will and Mike

Stay with me, now.

Small throwaway scene? Maybe, yeah, but i’ll add that the exact frame Will sings here is the thumbnail for this episode.

Do with that information what you will.

In this scene, Mike is making a plan to find El by getting help from Suzie. Will is the only one who picks up on Mikes plan, and sings the Never-ending Story theme to remind the others who haven’t yet picked up on it. Basic example of show don’t tell.

Contrary to Steve and Nancy, Will sings because Mike and him are already in harmony. They’re on the same page about “Utah” meaning “Suzie”.

This is one of the many examples in season 4 alone where Mike and Will do not need to communicate with words to pick up what the other puts down.

You could say that these two have quite a good rhythm, their interactions seem to flow seamlessly, and when they don’t ( *cough* airport reunion) it sticks out like a sore thumb.

I cant find a clip of the scene I can link here, but think of that scene where they’re formatting a lie for Suzie in her room as to why they need these coordinates, and it’s complete improv and such a natural flowing lie despite the fact they’ve never discussed it before.

And if we’re defining chemistry as a measure of emotional connection, well, which two characters have the most heart-to-heart, ‘lethal dose of emotion’ interactions this season?

yeah…quite a few more than average.

And that’s just season four! Mike and Will share emotionally intimate moments like these throughout the seasons.

So, will we get to see some more musical interactions this next season? If we do, i’ll place my bets on these two getting fed a version of our Chemistry Test.

Love to hear other people’s thoughts!

[lunabug2004]

Did Stranger Things Get Worse Over Time?

I'm curious what people think bc I've seen so many people (YT videos, specifically) claiming that Stranger Things has gotten worse with every season, and I definitely don't agree, so I wanted to hear people's opinions :D

[cosmobrain00]

sketches for this week✌️

[alyxdrawsthings]

That time Billy smacked his head thru the sauna’s glass window

[bylertruth3r]

the couples pairing was crazy and them panning to Lumax then Byler then Jancy in this scene was insane like they were like "these are the couples"

they were like "let's put the couples together"

[satellitebyers]

I wonder how many other times they went to the movies together that summer

[gayofthefae]

Okay but can we talk about how Max and Lucas are interracial in a pretty conservative small town and Max first kissed him in PUBLIC, even after having personal experience with the consequences? Go girl!

I think about them a lot because after all season with Billy and us knowing him to be abusive, HER kissing HIM is her fully informed saying: "worth it".

And it's the best thing she ever did.

[williamgayers]

i'm gonna be honest with y'all: i truly believe the "crazy together" scene was one of the most romantic scenes in the whole show...