#lord Vyke

[technomancer-01]

On the Nature of Tarnished Souls || Vyke, Knight of the Roundtable ||

No other Tarnished was closer to the throne of the Elden Lord than Vyke. But without announcement, Vyke traveled far below the capital, and was scorched by the flame of frenzy.

Did he make his choice for his maiden, or did some other force lure him with suggestion?

.

Request suggestion from :). Starting to clean up some of my older posts, pull myself out of this brainfog. I have been playing more Tears of the Kingdom lately, I may have to force myself to unwind and relax but I am enjoying it so far! Definitely a shocker from Ocarina of Time but it feels good to game again

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Not sure how social mediaz works, I’m not going to force people to follow me, it just feels nice to not shout into a void I guess

[reyrapidsbutgayer]

Ranking All Elden Ring Bosses by Fuckability

It was only a matter of time until I made a post like this. (And an equally horrible post featuring the DLC bosses.)

In this hypothetical all of the bosses can be reasonably communicated with and are not actively trying to kill you.

Repeat bosses not included, duo bosses counted seperate.

It should also be assumed that all of these bosses have access to their magic/items/resources to benefit them in bed.

Explanation of Grading system:

Ineligible: (Cannot give consent)

These characters are not sentient enough to communicate consent, or are physically incapable of sex.

Unfuckable: (Can give consent, but does not DESERVE sex)

Character sucks so badly that they do not deserve to experience pleasure in any shape or form.

Uninterested: (Can give consent, does not WANT sex)

These character are fully capable of sex but would never participate in sex due to lack of interest or overabundance of moral convictions.

Not worth it: (Can give consent, is terrible in bed)

I mean, you COULD have sex with these characters but why would you?

Acceptable: (Can give consent, would be fine in bed)

These characters are average in bed, nothing crazy or noticeable. Some might end up in this category because they ARE good at sex, but the entire process would be inconvenient or uncomfortable to initiate.

Good Time: (Can give consent, would be great in bed)

These characters are good at sex, give or take a few points depending on their mood or situation.

Knock your socks off: (Can give consent, would be amazing in bed)

These characters excel in giving pleasure and would be well worth the time and effort involved.

Sex God: (Can give consent, would be the best in bed)

These characters would be so good at sex that all other factors are irrelevant. They are serving and we are here for it.

Evil Sex God: (Can give consent, is a terrible person but you’d make an exception.)

These are characters that should fall lower in the rankings, but their sexual prowess supersedes their inherent awfulness to a noteworthy degree.

Full list below the read more. Obviously it's not going to be sfw.

Ineligible: (Cannot give consent)

Dragonkin Soldier:

Mindless beast

Astel, Naturalborn of the Void

Weird rock alien, doesn't/can't understand.

Fia's Champions:

Ghosts, simps.

Regal Ancestor Spirit

Animal

Erdtree Avatar

A plant

Great Wyrm Theodorix

Mindless beast.

Ulcerated Tree Spirit

A plant, no junk

Tibia Mariner:

Skeleton

Red Wolf of the Champion:

Animal.

Full-Grown Fallingstar Beast

Weird rock alien, doesn't/can't understand.

Abductor Virgin

First off, just some snakes in a robot. Second, virgin.

Erdtree Burial Watchdog

Stone gargoyle

Crystalians

Non-organic

Mad Pumpkin Heads

Unable to consent due to madness.

Cemetery Shade

Unable to consent due to mind controlling parasite.

Spirit-Caller Snail

Animal

Runebear

Animal

Miranda the Blighted Bloom

A plant

Guardian Golem

Stone gargoyle

Starscourge Radahn:

Unable to consent due to madness

Unfuckable: (Can give consent, but does not DESERVE sex)

Elden Beast:

Too catholic.

Sir Gideon Ofnir, the All-Knowing:

Dick game weak - unironically posts joker memes.

Omenkiller:

Basically a cop.

Necromancer Garris:

Killed his family, not a good husband.

Royal Revenant:

Won't stop screaming (in an unsexy way)

Godrick the Grafted:

Incel - Also all that murder and torture business but mostly the Incel stuff.

Uninterested: (Can give consent, does not WANT sex)

Valiant Gargoyle:

Could probably have sex if it wanted to, but is kinda going through a lot right now. Ya know, that whole "Is made of several corpses mashed together" thing.

Malenia, Blade of Miquella:

Look, I ALSO wanted her to higher up on this list, but let's be honest here. Her body is rotting and falling apart, she just isn't up for sex in her current form. In her prime? She'd be top of the list. She's the daughter of Marika and Radagon, she'd be playing fuck/marry/kill with every warrior who crossed her path. (in that order)

Death Rite Bird:

I think it might be physically capable of sex, but is too busy burning corpses to bother with stuff like that.

Black Blade Kindred:

Same reason as the Valiant Gargoyle but you might have like 2% more of a chance because they are goth.

Maliketh, the Black Blade:

Would normally be a sex god, but is too religious. Probably took a vow about this sort of thing.

Morgott, the Omen King:

You kidding me? This guy has the same energy as a repressed youth pastor. He's gonna be a virgin till the day he dies. The dude sided with the same religious order that locked him a sewer and tried to kill him. He's not out there getting phone numbers he's too busy praying and judging others for their 'impure thoughts'.

Draconic Tree Sentinel:

Married to his job, also physically chained to his horse. He ain't taking off that armor anytime soon.

Wormface:

Too sad, leave him alone his face is full of worms.

Tree Sentinel:

Same as the Draconic Tree Sentinel but he's a tiny bit more naive so you might have a better chance.

Elder Dragon Greyoll:

Too sleepy, but still kinda a milf.

Grafted Scion:

There might be some genitals in there somewhere but I don't think they know how or even want to use them.

Not worth it: (Can give consent, is terrible in bed)

Esgar, Priest of Blood:

No sense of hygiene, is always covered in blood (in an unsexy way)

Mohg, Lord of Blood:

This loser is dripping with all the least sexy bodily fluids and he has sharp horns sticking out of him. Even if you got him in bed you'd only enjoy like 5% of it. Plus you just know he'd be all needy afterwards and try to get you to join his MLM.

Borealis the Freezing Fog:

Too cold, not a snuggler.

Elemer of the Briar:

The armor stays ON during sex.

Kindred of Rot:

It's like all the worst possible aspects of alien biology, it won't be nearly as fun as you hoped.

Sanguine Noble:

Same as all the other Mohg followers, too sticky and too smelly.

Decaying Ekzykes:

He's sick right now, leave him alone.

Acceptable: (Can give consent, would be fine in bed)

Loretta, Knight of the Haligtree:

I'm sure she'd be a decent lover. Maybe a little overzealous but she'd has good intentions.

Grave Warden Duelist:

I mean these guys are hot and probably fuck like a truck but they are not the most caring lovers, also they are covered in live snakes so there is that.

Night's Cavalry:

If you like goth knights I'm sure they'd be fine.

Alabaster Lord:

Their skin probably feels like stone, but I bet they can pull off all sorts of freaky zero-g sex stuff if you ask them.

Onyx Lord:

Same as the Alabaster Lord but slightly more goth.

Fell Twins:

Once you get past the horns and stuff I bet the Omens are actually pretty good in bed, just watch out.

Demi-Human Queens:

I feel like all Demi-humans are pretty good lovers but their biology probably has some unexpected drawbacks.

Stonedigger Troll:

If you can get past the texture and the size I bet they could be decent in bed.

Flying Dragon Greyll:

A surprisingly unsexy dragon, but a dragon is a dragon and still worth at least a one night stand.

Glintstone Dragon Smarag:

A dragon willing to kill racist magic users, earns them a few extra points.

Beastman of Farum Azula:

On one hand the Beastmen probably have crazy mating skills, but they are also zombies, which detracts some points for all the decay.

Battlemage Hugues:

Contrary to popular belief, Wizards are not very good at sex. They spend all their time studying instead of partying, at least Hugues is willing to get his hands dirty.

Commander O'Neil:

Seems like a decent guy, but probably won't shut up about his time in the military. Also he is infected with scarlet rot so that might be a mood killer.

Bloodhound Knight Darriwil:

The bloodhound knights are probably pretty wild in bed if you can earn their loyalty, but good luck with that.

Adan, Thief of Fire:

The dude committed heresy, that has to earn him some sexy points.

Soldier of Godrick:

He's a good boy, he's doing his job so throw him a bone.

Flying Dragon Agheel:

One of the first dragons you encounter, so he earns some points for style.

Demi-Human Chief:

Same as the queens, but probably a bit rougher in bed.

Good Time: (Can give consent, would be great in bed)

Lichdragon Fortissax:

A much sexier dragon, you know they were hooking up with Godwin. Only loses some points for all the death rot.

Crucible Knight Siluria:

A bit gloomy, but I bet the crucible knights can do all sorts of freaky stuff with their animal body parts.

Mimic Tear:

A slippery liquid shapeshifter, need I say more?

Commander Niall:

A way better guy than O'Niel, plus he just a bit more daddy energy.

Fire Giant:

Once you get past his size, his sadness and the giant fell god of destruction in his chest, I bet he's got something going on.

Ancient Hero of Zamor:

Gives me Hercules/Amazonian vibes, I could be into it.

Cleanrot Knight:

Lesbian activities detected.

Crucible Knight:

These guys have tails, horns, wings and big old throat sacks. Imagine the possibilities.

Glintstone Dragon Adula:

Has a sword. If you hear "Dragon holding a sword" and your pants aren't already off, we can't be friends.

Bols, Carian Knight:

He seems like a good boy.

Scaly Misbegotten:

I feel like the Misbegotten have some really interesting possibilities with their animal biology. I bet they have bonobo type societies and that could be fun.

Leonine Misbegotten:

Same as the other Misbegotten.

Misbegotten Warrior:

Same as the other Misbegotten.

Knock your socks off: (Can give consent, would be amazing in bed)

Crucible Knight Ordovis:

Has all the desirable traits of a Crucible Knight but I also imagine they are super into threesomes.

Perfumer Tricia:

She seems really nice, and would be a super attentive lover. Plus she probably has access to crazy drugs and could hook you up.

Nox Swordstress & Nox Priest:

You just know that the Nox were getting up to crazy hot and crazy unethical experiments in their underground cities. These two probably get up to some wild shit and they are inviting you to join them.

Rennala, Queen of the Full Moon:

As she is now, I bet she'd be too sad to really be in a relationship again. But she kept up with Radagon and you just know she has some tricks up her sleeves that could make you abandon the golden order.

Sex God: (Can give consent, would be the best in bed)

Dragonlord Placidusax:

Has two male heads and three female heads, imagine...

Ancient Dragon Lansseax:

Formed a whole freaky dragon/human cult and you just know they got into some eyes-wide-shut orgies behind those doors.

Godfrey, First Elden Lord (Hoarah Loux):

We all knew he'd be this high on the list. He was just a normal dude but he managed to keep pace with Queen Marika (Who is basically a goddess of fertility) for a good long while. He will fold you in half (on the battlefield and in the bedroom.)

Evil Sex God: (Can give consent, is a terrible person but you’d make an exception.)

Radagon of the Golden Order:

He sucks in all the worst ways, but I mean... You can't NOT. Both Radagon and Marika are the embodiment of evil but they managed to suck and fuck their way across an entire continent for generations. You HAVE to give a try at least once.

Godskin Duo:

Oh my god will it be awful with all those flayed human skins, but you know you are still gonna have to. They can stretch and do all sorts of freaky stuff with their bodies, plus they kill gods and nothing is sexier than heresy.

Vyke, Knight of the Roundtable:

The dude is a mad killer but... he can still probably get it, might as well give it a try.

God-Devouring Serpent / Rykard, Lord of Blasphemy:

Personally I wouldn't, he's a loser and will probably kill you. But he is also a giant snake made up of squirming hands doing all sorts of sexual experiments, I can't blame you if you want to give it a taste.

Black Knife Assassin:

They committed a whole lot of treason but the power of armored lesbians is too hard to resist.

Patches:

If you are already having sex with from software characters, you gotta give Patches at least one attempt. When you wake up he'll have robbed you, but you knew what you were getting into.

[advntzen]

[velvet-apricots]

Chapter 4 of “Blood and Silver” is now out!

Chapter Summary: Ansbach is tasked by Lord Mohg to kill a very important Tarnished.

Chapter Warnings: Canon typical violence

[impcler]

ngl I'm sorely tempted to set aside yet another sideblog for a frenzied flame tarnished oc

[catcas22]

This voice in my head, it wants me to choose. Die selfish or live with my head in a noose. Does it ever get better, is this worth the fight? Everyone has a breaking point, guess we'll find mine.

My personal hell, I'll bury it, bury it. Weight of the world, I'll carry it, carry it. Pile it all on, I've gotta be strong For somebody, for somebody. Put my pain in a pill, I'll swallow it, swallow it. Too numb to feel, I'm hollow, I'm hollow, I have to hold on. I've got to be strong For somebody, for somebody

Somebody else.

Vyke sought the Elden Throne to save Godwyn, took the Flame of Frenzy to save his maiden, and turned aside in the end to save Lansseax, change my mind.

[stayatsam]

oguhhhhhhhh who burned the erdtree before us i need to know if it was vyke or bernahl im going crazy

[lrdvyke]

went back to the artbook bc i remembered there were two pages for the frenzied flame, and i was right. it's a good reference for the burns vyke has since he retains the full concept art look—just switch the face burn to the left side ( apologies for shitty quality it's a picture from my phone because i couldn't find better one online 😭 )

also realized where the theory came from that vyke taking out his eye takes the frenzy with it

too bad i like pain and suffering so he doesn't get that pass 🫵🚫

[taovictory]

Choosing FRENZY for this second #eldenring playthrough. ᵇᵃᵈ ᵉⁿᵈⁱⁿᵍ ᵒᶠ ᵐʸ ᵒᶜ ˡᵃʷʳᵉⁿᶜᵉ

[heyzebulon]

Can I gush about my Elden Ring character to you??

This is Herald. They are Vyke's Mimic.

Vyke was a champion of the Roundtable Hold, supposedly the closest to becoming Elden Lord and beloved knight of the ancient dragon Lansseax (who took the form of a female priestess to commune with her knights so that relationship may have been something...more?). However, he becomes corrupted by the Frenzied Flame, and it appears he kills his own Finger Maiden.

In game you only ever see Vyke in his armor, but Zulie the Witch on YouTube revealed he does have a fully modeled face (as do a lot of NPCs like Sellen and the Dung Eater, and they're very good!).

But my character isn't Vyke, my character is a Mimic Tear of Vyke.

We don't have much to go on what exactly a Silver Tear is, who made them or how, but their motivation is pretty clear:

The Silver Tear makes mockery of life, reborn again and again into imitation. Perhaps, one day, it will be reborn a lord...

The desire of every Silver Tear is to be reborn a lord, presumably the Elden Lord. What better chance at becoming Elden Lord would a Silver Tear have than being reborn as the Tarnished who came the closest before his downfall?

I copied Vyke's face but recolored him as a mimic (thanks again Zulie). I gave him longer hair and stubble to suggest it has been wandering by itself for some time. I also gave them an eyepatch to indicate some wear and tear (who knows how long a mimic can sustain itself before being reborn again?).

But they are not opposed to Frenzied Flame, they simply see Vyke as a failure, not just as a lord but also as a champion of the Three Fingers. Their lord deserved better from such a promising knight.

They killed Vyke and took his spear for themselves.

Herald is the Herald of Chaos, Champion of the Frenzied Flame, and they shall be the first Silver Tear to reborn as a lord, that is their destiny!

For the alternative...is to have been reborn as imitation of another failure....

[daelkyrart]

tarnished sketches because im feeling nostalgic about my first elden ring playthrough

[asexuallucanisdellamorte]

i shouldn't have stayed up until 3am watching elden ring lore videos so now I'm like can we talk about shabiri? can we talk about the merchants? can we talk about miquella and malenia? can we talk about marika's less than stellar parenting skills?

[lamplore]

The Frenzied Flame, or maybe Shabriri, wants to have us give in to that despair, to believe that ending everything is justified because it’s an end to suffering. But the FF must manipulate us to get us to come to that conclusion, as it does with Midra and Vyke. When characters choose the Frenzied Flame, they do so because they have been convinced that it will spare someone they love from suffering. In reality though, it means being selfish enough to make the decision to end life on behalf of every living thing that is still around. Nepheli, Gostoc, Kenneth, Rya, Boggart, Boc and the Demi-Humans, Jar Bairn, Moore (potentially) and the Foragers, as well as all of the animal life still exists. They still have a chance to decide for themselves what to do with life. That’s also essentially what Melina says before she burns herself and the Erdtree, too; that it was the act of choosing that mattered to her, and we take that away if we choose The Flame.

I think we’re also meant to infer from Melina’s dialogue that there are others left alive too, when she talks about beauty and birth. She also strongly suggests that the FF leaves no room for new growth or renewal, just lifelessness. It's not like DS3's End of Fire ending, where we peacefully let the already dead world fade so a new one can begin. The principle of renewal from the ashes is already represented by the burning of the Erdtree—the Flame of Despair doesn't leave room for new life. I believe that's because the Flame represents the idea that life IS suffering and therefore a permanent end to the cycle is desirable, an idea common in the Buddhist philosophies that From likes to draw from. The suggestion here seems to be that people only come to believe that when they are blinded by their own despair, oftentimes because they see and empathize with the suffering of others more than their reasons to enjoy and treasure life. I didn't want to hijack OP's post, but it prompted me to write a whole ass essay post on here about Elden Ring as a story about how people respond to despair. It's been my main reading of the game for a while and I have a ton of thoughts about it, so it kinda got too long for a reblog lol. It's going up next on my blog :)

After beating the Elden Ring DLC, the game gives me a sense of emptiness and sadness. I felt this after beating the base game, but now it's final. There are no more gods or demigods, there are no remaining civilizations, and the NPCs you befriended are nearly all gone. The Lands Between is a dead world, infested with curses and consequences of the empire that ruled it. It almost makes me think the Frenzied Flame ending is the best ending; burn it all away and let it start anew, like a forest sprouting from the ashes of a fire.

[tlgtw]

Bits and pieces of the still incredibly written backstory of Elden Ring continue to poke out from the dogwater, as it were.

St. Trina, as we learn, was a specific aspect of Miquella that was made separate: In Miquella's words, St Trina was the embodiment of his 'love.' And when he abandoned St Trina, he abandoned that aspect of himself that made her.

This newly introduced example reveals to us what the nature of Radagon's exactly was, in turn.

Radagon, the 'other half' of Marika in the exact same way that St Trina had been for Miquella, we learn here, had *himself* been a specific singular aspect of Marika's emotions or feelings.

With St Trina having been made out of Miquella's 'love.'

You wonder, too, what Radagon should have been made from.

What aspect of herself did Marika separate into her second person, as called by her the "Loyal Dog of the Golden Order"? We know Radagon was created prior to the creation of the Golden Order itself, since he was involved in the invasion of Liurnia.

So at the same time as Marika was married to Godfrey, begetting Godwyn and Mogh and Morgott. Radagon was married to Renalla, begetting Rykard and Radahn and raising the potential successor of Marika--the Empyrean Ranni. He was given a massive amount of responsibility, the seeming crux of the Liurnian-Leyndell alliance that ended the Liurnian Wars that Marika's empire was losing, and he by every account was completely dedicated and successful; even weakening the strength of the Carian royal family by reducing their practicing of astrology.

All yet, when push came to shove: After Godwyn was assassinated and Marika sought to destroy the Elden Ring. It was Radagon who dropped everything he had and stepped in to stop her.

"Proudly" as his Golden Order Greatsword says,

Radagon divorced his first wife, married his 'original self,' begettedthe Twin Prodigies Miquella and Malenia as two more potential successors to Queen Marika, set up the brutal inquisition and censorship of the Age of Radagon headed by his own son Rykard, and was even involved with the very the development of Golden Order fundamentalism!

Radagon did so much fucking stuff! He was so damn proactive! So what exactly must he have been!?

That Marika initially separated from herself? And who went on to try and stop her very own plans when they turned against the wishes of the Greater Will??

This conflicting 'half' of her original person! That nonetheless was all this strongly willed on his own!?

What part of Marika COULD Radagon have originally been!?!?!?

And it's awesome. It's really really well-designed writing.

Frankly, even, it's genius. It's not anything revolutionary in terms of narrative devices or anything like that, but it's really elegant. It's really meaningful and concise, and it's really cool!!!

A lot of Elden Ring's base game is, or now maybe--was. (It having been the basis of my entire show on YouTube.)

But the actual story, instead of solely the backstory, of the DLC, unfortunately, is not!

You ever seen a boss item whose entire description was literally entirely the game just fucking QUOTING ITSELF?

Hyetta at Frenzied Flame Proscription: "Become their lord. Take their torment, despair. Their affliction. Every sin, every curse. And melt it all away. As the Lord of Chaos."

Ghost outside Church of Inhibition in Liurnia: "Ahh, Lord Vyke, it seems that you were no lord, after all."

Midras's Flame of Frenzy, from killing Midras, Lord of Frenzied Flame:

Or! Better yet, ANOTHER boss spell, whose entire description is dedicated to literally just acknowledging its fucking colour!!

Land of Shadows, from killing the Scadutree Avatar:

I definitely sure wish I still hadn't!!

In fact, I don't think the level of vacuousness from Shadow of the Erdtree's descriptions has ever been seen before!

Not even in Dark Souls 3!!

AUGH

[catcas22]

We can only conclude that Godfrey wears a toupée.

Pictured: Godfrey

[ghostofashina]

The dilemma with the source of golden lightning and how it can bring a hidden face of the Golden Prince.

I keep thinking about Godwyn's lightning. And something didn't sit right with me. And the more I dug into it, the more of a... revelation I had of Godwyn.

Except for Fortissax wielding "Death Lightning", I don't recall any ancient dragon with actual golden lightning. Yet, not only godwyn's lightning was described as golden, but every dragon cult incantation is golden.

According to Death Lightning:

It is said that this golden lightning was wielded by Godwyn, who befriended Fortissax.

But Vyke's dragonbolt ain't golden. And as Godwyn, he is said to be loved by a dragon. Not only that, but after we befriend Florissax, she gives us her own dragonbolt blessing, and it's not golden. The only golden dragonbolt we find, is near Godwyn's memorial, in a church with Radagon's statue (which, I have to say, I find very... odd.)

And then, we have the Gravel Stone Seal (and I believe it belonged to Godwyn at some point), which is even more odd, because it says:

The worship of the ancient dragons does not conflict with belief in the Erdtree. After all, this seal, and lightning itself, are both imbued with gold.

Except this is straight up a lie. Only Godwyn had golden lightning and, therefore, his soldiers, etc.

But there's others sources of golden lightning. And I want to mention one kind that seems to come from Godwyn himself.

The flower. We have 2 types of lightning flowers. One of them you find all over the place in the base game, called Fulgurbloom. And other kind that only grows in Lands of Shadow, called Yellow Fulgurbloom. Now this is really interesting:

Fulgurblooms are found in many places, including Farum Azula, and can be used to craft an ordinary llightning grease. However, Yellow Fulgurblooms ONLY spawn inside Godwyn's catacombs and is used to craft the dragonbolt grease, a favorite tool of Godwyn's soldiers, an item that does not exist outside the DLC.

I always thought that Fulgurblooms were responsible for the eletric goats we find everywhere, and I still think it's the case. And that this a natural item of this world. Which I don't think it's the case of the Yellow Fulgurbloom. Blossoms in the realm of shadow's underground gravesites and places struck by lightning. Imbued with yellow lightning's essence: which means, in the presence of Godwyn. Yes, resembles Miquella's lily. Or even the butterflies. Because we also have the Red Fulgurbloom and it's said "to bloom where the red lightning of the ancient dragons strikes the earth". It grows where the lightning hits. So I guess that, besides the divided corpses of the Prince of Death, these flowers can help us confirm Godwyn was there at some point.

But, once again, where does the golden lightning come from? And this is where things start to make me dizzy. Because we have a known source of golden lightning: storms. At the base game, we have storms aspects linked to a Lord that Godfrey defeated.

Then, going back to DLC, all storms aspects come from the Hornsent. The Divine Beast Warriors wield aspects of storms, such as wind, ice and lightning: golden lightning, very similar to the dragon cult incantations. They even have a golden lightning spear. Not only that, but the Divine Beast Dancing Lion also have golden lightning and one of them is actually infected with Deathblight, for whatever reason. And the Divine Beast has the exact lightning of the Death Lightning, without the corruption of deathblight.

I don't have any big conclusion so far, but the more I look into it, the less I think Godwyn's lightning had the dragons as source. Don't get me wrong: it started with the dragons, of course it did, but I guess its roots are far more deep inside a genocide of a culture: part of a genocide is also appropiation of a culture being stolen. And that, perhaps, Godwyn himself had a part on it.

Messmer had an entire storehouse with dozens of specimens. That was not made to preserve the Hornsent culture in any good means, it was a source of study and experiment. And now I start to think he wasn't alone in this quest.