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leakinghate · 6 years ago

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Legendarily Defensive: Editing the Gay Away in VLD

Disclaimer: This meta is a collaboration of the entirety of #TeamPurpleLion. We understand while we do touch on narrative romance, we are intentionally trying to be as ship-neutral as possible, and provide that which we only have evidence for. We encourage the experts in their respective ship-fandoms to meta as they do best on these topics, and we hope this can be a factual basis to springboard from.

In the most recent AfterBuzz interview March 4, 2019, Executive Producers Lauren Montgomery and Joaquim dos Santos revealed in no uncertain terms who, precisely, is responsible for the editing fiasco that resulted in the version of Season 8 presented to the fandom, including explaining to their viewers when the changes were called for, and a heretofore unknown why: the removal of a mlm relationship between two of the male Paladins.

Let’s break it down.

The interview itself is a little very difficult to stomach, especially the latter half. But, the first portion is an unusually open and honest discussion of what went down behind the scenes, and what it meant to the producers. It’s also the place where we’ll be lifting direct quotes from. The hosts of AfterBuzz allow the Executive Producers to have the floor and speak with quite a bit of leeway, and some very curious facts come to light. For anyone interested in the source, the interview can be found on Youtube.(3)

Voltron is a unique case. While much of the fan base may not have been around for prior incarnations of this franchise, it has existed for quite a while.

It originally came from a Japanese show Beast King GoLion. From this show, the robot we recognize from Voltron: Defender of the Universe, was created in 1984. There exists an interview with the Executive Producer of Defender of the Universe, Peter Keefe, as well as other cast and crew on the production of how BeastKing became Voltron.(4)

After Voltron: Defender of the Universe, several other iterations bloomed forth - some in the form of comics, some as sequels, some as reboots. The first series to follow Defender of the Universe was Voltron: The Third Dimension, a CGI-based sequel released in 1998.

While not nearly was popular as its predecessor, it managed to stir up some legal conflict:

“Worse, the Japanese creators of Beast King GoLion — Toei Animation — began saber-rattling. Toei believed World Events had overstepped the boundaries of their 1984 agreement and made the CGI series without buying those explicit rights.

To quash this dispute once and for all, Koplar and crew purchased GoLion outright in 2000. Now they had the freedom to adapt at will. But nothing was in the works.”(7)

As of 2000, Koplar and World Events Productions (WEP) owned all the rights to Voltron. Talk of a live action movie has been in the works since 2005, but with little traction. In 2010, WEP licensed rights for the Voltron franchise to Classic Media (now DreamWorks Classics) (7). By 2011, the animated series Voltron Force was released.

In 2014 Lauren Montgomery and Joaquim Dos Santos approached DreamWorks Animation with the idea of producing a new Voltron show, with the license DreamWorks had recently come to own through their acquisition of Classics Media. In 2016, Voltron: Legendary Defender launched.

It’s worth noting World Events Productions licensed rights to produce Voltron content to DreamWorks Studios. They did not hand over the entire franchise to do with as they saw fit. DreamWorks only purchased the ability to play with the characters and the story in whatever capacity WEP believed would remain on-brand.

Amidst the protests and visceral reaction to the final season of Legendary Defender, many have felt confusion about where to direct their frustrations.

In another post, @crystal-rebellion theorized the symbolism in Season 7’s Episode 4 ‘The Feud’ was actually a very blatant representation of what was going on behind the scenes, and why. (2)

Since the most recent interview, statements from the Executive Producers as well as the host have confirmed this to be an accurate assessment of the situation.

Joaquim Dos Santos says it himself:

"This is not a vilifying of DreamWorks. Any exec we ever interacted with was like, 'Hey, we understand why you want to tell the story, we understand where you're coming from. It's a little bit bigger than that. There's other sort of controlling parties with Voltron, which makes it unique.’ It's not just a DreamWorks owned property, and I think it got logistically really really weird." (3)

Seven times, he specifically mentions the pushback didn’t come from DreamWorks, but from ‘other controlling parties.’ He alludes to some logistical weirdness, the implication being a difference in creative direction, or some dissention from higher up. In fact, the hosts and EPs discuss a controlling IP owner eight times in the course of one interview.

He also says, in regard to the issue of LGBTQ+ representation and Adam specifically:

“Here's where we arrived on this. And we were pointing to things like Overwatch. We were pointing to Steven Universe. They're different scenarios, we were in a slightly different position. We didn't have that position of being the creators of this IP. And we also weren't a video game that was marketed to teens and above. We for all intents and purposes were started as a show for boys like 6 to 11 to sell as many toys as possible. And that's just like a fact and that's business, and it is what it is.” (3)

DreamWorks is not a platform that markets ‘toys for boys’ (a talking point brought up no fewer than five times) - but World Events is. President Robert Koplar himself states his target demographic is boys and their dads in Episode 12 from the Let’s Voltron podcast not once, but twice. (5)

The EPs confirm as much with their recent statement in the March 4th ABTV Voltron interview(3) that the possibility of a male paladin’s replacement was greenlit until the IP holder learned the male paladin was to be replaced with Acxa, a woman. This kind of sexist hypocrisy goes as far back as 1984 with Allura being spanked in front of her own team in one episode(11) and tied to a chair by them to prevent her escape in another(11). The 2003 Devil’s Due comic shows Lotor, who looks to be no more than five, witness his mother’s murder via strangulation by his father (complete with an expression of horror on her dead face)(12). Lotor then suffers the same type of non-lethal strangulation in a scene where his father interrupts what the comic refers to as “recreation” with a scantily clad blonde resembling both Lotor’s mother and Allura in a different series(13). All of this takes place in a franchise whose target demographic has consistently been six to eleven year old boys and their fathers. Koplar’s company has made their hypocritical moral stance abundantly clear in Legendary Defender, even going so far as to order the destruction of the entire final season. According to Dos Santos:

“Specifically with Season 7 and 8 we basically held onto Season 7 so Season 8 was like done by the time S7 was dropping. We had like a month left when reaction for Season 7 started coming in, and that was day of the drop. We were in a weird position. To DreamWorks's credit, the tide started changing internally. They came back to us and said, okay we're open to explore this relationship between Adam and Shiro so we were in this weird position where we had all the animation done, we had $0.00 left in the budget in terms of like what we could do and it was like, all right, we know Adam's fate is what it is, do we do this and sort of like take this step knowing that we're going to take some flack? And we decided to do it so we revised the dialogue. You can probably see it in the animation. If you really pay attention it's like, it's literally our editor cutting out mouths and like puppeting different dialogue. The dialogue is pretty vague, it's sort of the best we could do, and that was a process of discussing what we could actually have them say.”(3)

Hold the phone. Taken in context, Dos Santos is explaining the process of DreamWorks giving the showrunners the green light to change the epilogue of Season 8 to give Shiro the unambiguously gay orientation they had written out of Season 7. The problem is, there is no dialogue in the epilogue. Even if we consider the epilogue to consist of everything from “one year later” onward, there is no dialogue for Shiro and another male character that would have to be reworked.

Here is what we think happened: Season 8 was finished in June. The IP owner hated it and ordered it changed at the beginning of July. Those changes included cutting a male/male romance. August came and the fandom melted down over Adam dying. Hoping to avoid a repeat of the Adam debacle, in mid-August DreamWorks came around and offered to let the showrunners put something into Season 8 for more gay representation. By this point the edits to Season 8 were almost complete, the budget was gone, and time was short, so they opted to give Shiro a wedding during the ending, in the epilogue. In an effort to brush off the clear edits to Season 8, Dos Santos mentions the lip movements during the interview but is confusing the making of the epilogue with the rest of the edits.

Indeed, it seems those edits resulted not only in the deaths of the series’ heroine and a childhood abuse victim, but also in the demolition of not just one but possibly two completed romantic arcs. When discussing Allura and Lance’s romance, Dos Santos and Emma Fyffe have this to say:

JDS: I could see the argument where it’s like, it's basic. It's what we've kindof come to expect from okay the guy sort of turned around and-- but I think Lance's arc aside from being with Allura was bigger than the Allura love story.

EF: And Lance's overall story arc I really enjoyed. But again, I think it's this whole idea that we were dealing with this IP that was like "okay, monster of the week, it was like dudes being in love with one hot girl and just macho men with fighting robots and whatever was happening with Pidge".

JDS: Right, yes, yes. (3)

The showrunner himself not only agrees Lance’s milquetoast romantic arc was due to pushback from the IP holder, in discussing the controversy surrounding the main characters’ sexual orientation, Dos Santos inadvertently reveals a major romance between two male paladins was cut.

EF: ...it is important to know that, again, you have this character who is very much your sort of quintessential, like, alpha male.

JDS: That-that was the trope that we were trying to, like, sort of step on was that, you know. I grew up with characters like Duke. To a much lesser degree, he’s a big, giant robot Optimus Prime. The idea of Optimus Prime being with another Optimus Prime was off the table. Like it was a no-go. (3)

If Allura and Lance’s IP-owner-influenced romantic arc is any indication, clearly two main paladins being together was fine. Dos Santos is referring to the inability to pair two male mains.

We don't know for sure, and won't until the original S8 is released. But, we have reasonable cause to believe Keith was intended to be gay and part of the romance that got tanked. When speaking about Keith’s sexuality Dos Santos says:

JDS: Because, I think we didn’t, we didn’t pair him with anybody, you know what I mean. I think we didn’t designate sort of where he stood. We don’t know. It’s-- It’s--

KC: We don’t know

JDS: Yeah, it-- It doesn’t really matter to be honest with you. I mean it would be great to confirm just to make people happy, but, like at the end of the day he is who he is, and leaving it open to interpretation. (3)

Do you hear that? “It would be great to confirm”. Not that it would be great if they could have done it, but if they could have confirmed it. It seems that JDS conceptualizes Keith as having an attraction to men, but he was forbidden from making that fact plain. Again, we have no concrete evidence of who Keith was slated to be with, just that the writers couldn't have two gay male paladins.

The wording of his statements is just clear enough to avoid dishonesty and just vague enough so as not to break contract. Even beyond NDAs, it’s not as if the Executive Producers can speak more directly to these points. We already have evidence of the IP owner’s character in the form of the Voltron Store’s Twitter presence outright lying about WEP and the store being separate entities:

(8) When only a few weeks earlier they had liked a tweet explicitly identifying them as one and the same, while confirming they have the final say over what can be done with the characters:

(1)

Before the fandom realized that WEP was behind the edits to S8 of VLD, the information that they owned the license was accepted fact. This excerpt from the Lets Voltron Podcast, Episode 134, is just one example:

(talking about a Voltron reference in Ready Player One)

Host 1: For those of you not in the know, if you think DreamWorks is the all in all for Voltron. Well, World Events Productions is the company that owns --

Host 2: The Voltron intellectual property.

Host 1: Many of you have heard of DreamWorks obviously. They make the show. Well, World Events Productions owns the property and has helped make this new show and all previous shows possible.

LV Podcast EP 134, 5:00-5:30 (6)

Now? Many official avenues are hastily attempting to downplay WEP’s involvement. When reached for comment in February 2019 the LV Podcast claimed that DreamWorks owned the licence.

The official phone number listed on WEP’s website no longer offers an option to connect a person to WEP, instead it offers three options: to directly input an extension, the accounting department, and The Voltron Store. (9)

In an effort to prevent fans from contacting them with complaints, WEP have inadvertently made their association with The Voltron Store explicit. Regardless of what the twitter account may claim, they are one and the same company. If these incidents weren’t damning enough, the store has further attempted to engage in a subtle smear campaign by liking tweets from users apologizing for harassment and death threats the store had received over Season 8, when all groups bringing the problems with its forced edits to WEP’s attention have specifically advocated for civil and nonviolent communication. (8)

As the story unfolds, one point is clear: Each new interview brings more information forth, repeatedly shining the spotlight on one little office in St. Louis.

WEP LLC is a private company. It has no shareholders, investors, or boards to answer to. It is the sole IP holder of the Voltron brand, and its President is the only person in the entire world who has final say over what can and cannot be done with the characters. When someone says “the IP holder” they are really talking about one man: Bob Koplar.

#TeamPurpleLion is a collective of analysts ( @crystal-rebellion, @dragonofyang, @felixazrael, @leakinghate, and @voltronisruiningmylife )intent on tracking down the who, what, where, how, and why of the destruction of VLDS8. We present sourced & cited commentary, relying on evidence so the VLD community can see what happened behind the scenes.

#Shiro #Keith #Lance #sheith #klance #VLD #voltron #Voltron legendary defender #FREEVLDS8 #WEP #World Events Productions #meta #Hate tries to Meta #fubob #TeamPurpleLion #crystal-rebellion #felixazrael #homophobia #Allura

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parasocialpod · 4 years ago

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Our Favorite Villains - Transcript

Follow along with the episode here if you’d like to!

Alex: If you haven't heard about Anchor, it's the easiest way to make a podcast. Let me explain. It's free, there's creation tools that allow you to record and edit your podcast right from your phone or computer, and Anchor will distribute your podcast for you, so it can be heard on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and many more.

You can even make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. It's everything that you need to make a podcast in one place. So download the free Anchor app, or go to anchor.fm to get started.

Alex: Hi, I'm Alex

Nick: And I'm Nick.

Alex: And this is Ice Cream Parasocial, a podcast that covers as many different topics as there are flavors of ice cream. Today, we'll be talking about our favorite villains in media.

Nick: I want to start out by apologizing. If I sound like shit, I have a little bit of a cold.

Alex: Yeah, just a little bit.

Nick: We've been putting off recording for a couple of days, because I didn't want to record with a sick voice, but it has not gone away. So.

Alex: Yeah, this is about as good as it's been in a minute.

Nick: I'm sorry. We all have to deal with it. Uh

Alex: Yeah, this was after me putting enough Vick's Vaporub on you to like, drive every animal in the house to like, go away.

Yeah.

Nick: Yeah, if you don't follow me on Twitter, I posted some pictures of the dogs hiding their noses.

Alex: Yeah. They, uh, that was a lie, actually. They didn't leave. They just, um, buried their whole faces in the blankets. Cause they were just like, "I'm not going to get up. But I'm sure not happy about what's happening right now."

Nick: Yeah. Winston is a rough Collie and he's got his nose-- from the very top of his head all the way to the tip of his nose is 12 inches long, and he buried his nose all the way up to his little eyeballs under a blanket to get away from the Vick's smell, but like, didn't leave the bed that I was laying on.

So, well, he's not he's, you know, he's just really pretty. He's not very smart.

Alex: Yeah. He's just really loyal. He didn't want to leave your side during this trying time.

He's very loyal to a fault.

He'll do whatever it takes.

Nick: I'm pretty sure he's laying down just on the other side of this door to make sure that we're not dying.

Alex: Yeah, he's a good boy. He does his best every day. Oh goodness.

Nick: Uh, but yeah, uh, speaking of social media: on Instagram, by the time this episode is up, there will also be a picture on Instagram and Twitter for the official podcast. That is the best piece of art I have ever made in my life.

Alex: Oh yeah. It's a real delight.

Nick: And it has everything to do with this podcast. It's promotional for this episode and I love it. Please go check it out. I don't care if you follow us on--

Alex: This is a call to action to look at this picture only.

Nick: Yes. And, uh, if you're listening to us on a platform that you don't usually listen to us on because we're not on a whole lot, hopefully soon we'll be on everything.

But as of right now, we're on Anchor, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Breaker, Radio Public, and YouTube. So hopefully we'll be on Apple Podcasts soon, and then we'll start begging you to go and review us there.

Yes.

They have like, weeks to months of a waiting list because so many people are starting podcasts.

Alex: Yeah. Like I know of at least like three or four people that are starting podcasts like right now.

Nick: Yeah. Well, and the information that I had seen was even older about it, you know, taking a long time to get set up on Apple Podcasts, because so many people are starting podcasts and I'm like, I think that information was pre-quarantine. So I can't imagine how long it will take for us to get there, but hopefully it'll be soon. So.

Alex: Like, I'm pretty sure that these microphones that we're recording on were considered like, essential by Amazon as well, because we got them in like 24 hours.

Nick: Mhmm.

Alex: So podcasting is a very accessible thing to do at the moment.

Nick: Absolutely.

Alex: Oh, goodness. Especially with Anchor--

Nick: Especially with Anchor!

Alex: It's the easiest way to make a podcast!

Nick: Which you already heard our ad for the beginning of this.

Legitimately, lots of love to Anchor. It's made it really easy to do this.

Yeah, no joke. Uh, I love you Anchor.

Alex: Thanks, Anchor.

Nick: I would probably kill for you, but please don't read that in a court of law.

Alex: [Laughs]

Nick: Anyways. Uh, talking about villains.

Alex: So, speaking of villains.

Nick: [Laughs]

Speaking of villains, like me, who would kill.

Alex: [Laughs]

For anchor.fm.

Both: [Laughing]

Alex: Oh no. Are we going to be the first podcast to ever have an Anchor sponsorship revoked?

Nick: Eh, probably not the first.

Alex: Yeah. That's fair. Just one of them.

Nick: [Laughs]

Yeah. We'll be one of many, I'm sure.

Alex: One of many.

Nick: Um, so villains.

Alex: So villains.

Nick: [laughs] I think we have a lot of crossover in our favorite villains.

Alex: Probably.

Nick: Um, but I guess first let's talk about what makes a good villain.

Alex: Yes.

Nick: Because this is something that we talk about a lot. We'll pause a show in the middle and just be like, "I love them". Just like, "I love how well that scene was written" and like, "all of the meaning behind that".

Alex: Yeah. Oh my God.

Nick: I guess some previous context that may or may not be needed is about how we met and started dating.

Because we met at this, um, youth hangout for queer kids, and we had kind of, we-- we'd been like, kind of hanging out, but not really, um, because we were in the same groups together. And then we started talking about movies and cartoons, and realized that we had both wanted to go to college for film.

Alex: [Chuckles]

Nick: I think at that point I'd already dropped out, but you were still gung-ho to be going to school for film, and we were just like--

Alex: Oh yeah.

Nick: Oh, we're both going to school for film.

Alex: Oh yeah. Like you had dropped out of film school. I was not yet in film school, and I was on the precipice of dropping out of film school.

Both: [Laughing]

Alex: Truly a match made in heaven. I'm pretty sure the way that I picked you up was that I was like, "Oh yeah, I want your phone number, so that maybe we can work on a project sometime."

Nick: Oh yeah, that's right. It was doing this specifically like, oh you know, so we can like talk about movies and stuff.

Alex: So we can talk about movies.

Nick: Like, you know, maybe talk about getting into a project together. And now we've been married for almost two years, and we're finally starting a project, and it's not a movie.

Alex: Yeah.

Both: [Laughing]

Nick: We've been in a relationship for five years.

Alex: Yeah.

Nick: Almost.

Alex: Oh, god.

Nick: Yeah, we're like less than a month away from, from that. I'm just like, yeah. That's basically it now.

Alex: Yeah, pretty much.

Nick: Time is an illusion.

Alex: Yeah, pretty much.

Nick: So we like to talk about movies. We like to talk about cartoons. We like to talk about media in general, and we are awful to watch movies and TV shows with, because we will pause, and just talk for a half hour, and then play again, and totally forget where we were.

Alex: Insufferable.

Nick: ADHD is fun.

Alex: Oh yeah, absolutely. Like yesterday I think-- or no, day before yesterday-- we've been watching Korra, and, um, we like paused it like 10 minutes before the end of an episode or something and then just didn't finish it until the following day, during which we watched like seven more minutes of that same episode, paused it and then almost didn't finish it until I was like, "Oh no! We never finished that episode!"

Nick: Yeah, because we were just so into talking about the characters and, um, the villains and the anti heroes and all of that stuff. And I think that that one we're having a lot of trouble watching, just because if you don't know, the legend of Korra is a spinoff series of Avatar: The Last Airbender, and it follows what happens after the characters from Avatar: The Last Airbender have grown up and died off and it's about the whole next generation. So we have a lot to say.

Alex: So much.

Nick: And I think that we also have a lot to say about what other people have to say about it. So we'll just get like five minutes in and like something will happen.

And I'm just like, Oh my God, did you see that article where somebody said, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then we'll just go for like 20 minutes. I was just like, Oh, what were we doing?

Alex: Just shit talking avatar clickbait.

Nick: Yeah.

Alex: But what makes a good villain?

Nick: What makes a good villain? I feel like that's a really, really hard question to answer, because depending on the story, I feel different things make a good villain.

Alex: Right.

Nick: You know, I, something, another question that I put for like a-a conversation starter is does a good villain mean that they're are sympathetic villain? In some stories: yes. They need to be sympathetic for that to be brightening, any kind of, you know, without us just blowing them off.

Alex: Right.

Nick: But in other stories, I feel like if they were sympathetic, Then the protagonist would just kind of get blown off because it's like, Oh, well, I don't know. You know?

Alex: Yeah. Yeah, like I feel like it's almost relational to the protagonist in a certain kind of way where it's like, Oh, you know, I definitely have like my pieces of media where it's like the characters themselves aren't super deep.

Um, and like, I can absolutely admit that where it's just like, Oh yeah, like, I liked this villain because they look cool and they have a good time, but the protagonists in those pieces of media also tend to be a little bit flat.

Um, and I think that that's totally fine, but then like the villains that tend to be in the media that I like that is uh, more like complex. That's also how the protagonists are, is like, there's a lot of nuance to them.

Nick: Right.

Alex: Um, so I think you really have it like spot on there. It's just like what, what's the rest of the tone, like?

Nick: Right. You know? 'Cause one of the villains that I have on here is Count Olaf as one of my favorite villains-

Alex: Oooh, yes!

Nick: -Because he's not sympathetic. You want to throat punch him.

Alex: Oh, he sucks.

Nick: And just like move on with your life, you know, but he still has a-a symbolism and he's the main villain of that story. But by no means, is he the only villain in that story, you know, And he just reminds me of such a classic villain that is evil for one reason, and one reason only. And that is his own personal gain.

Alex: Yes.

Nick: You know?

Alex: Yes. And I kind of liked that you put them on there too, because I feel like with Count Olaf, he's definitely like a character with a lot of depth, but not out of like any sort of like a sympathetic or like deep backstory thing, but just because there's so much intrigue around him. And, uh, just that, it's just like, how does he do the shit that he does, you know?

Nick: Right. Well, and I think that he's a really, really great villain too, because of what he means to the story, you know? You've got these brilliant, genius children that are surrounded by idiot adults.

Alex: Oh yeah.

Nick: You know, and having the tragic backstory that I have, you know, I have definitely had it where, when I was a kid, I would try to talk to an adult about another adult doing something bad.

And while they might be able to be like "Oh yeah, like that is bad" after a while of talking.

Alex: Yeah.

Nick: When the person would go through and do it again, they'd be like "Oh no, they're, they're different." Or like "That's not them." And, you know, Count Olaf, shows it in a very goofy way with his different get-ups and like all of this stuff, but watching it, you know, definitely kind of triggered memories, but not in like a, not in the like bad triggered, you know, but it was kind of like, it definitely made me think of like how apt of a-a character that is, you know, for these kids.

I-I am by no means comparing myself to those children who are absolute geniuses, but it's definitely, I can imagine being a kid or being below 18-

Alex: yeah.

Nick: -And watching that and being like, yeah, it's so obvious, you know, and I definitely would love to see what parents watching that think about that. You know? I-I wonder how many conversations it started or how many thoughts it started about believing your kids, even when it doesn't seem super obvious to you that this person is bad or like that this person is finding different ways around things to hurt your kid.

Alex: Right.

Nick: But it's like put it in such a goofy way that's like really entertaining to watch. [laughs] And so I'm just like, that's, I just love Count Olaf as a villain because he starts so many conversations.

Alex: God, yeah. That is such a good point.

Nick: So I guess that's for me, that's what-that's kind of the thread between all of my favorite villains is that they start really good conversations.

Alex: Oh my gosh. I feel like that is such a good way of hitting the nail on the head with this kind of thing. I feel like sometimes a good villain is almost representational. Um, I feel like on the surface Count Olaf is, uh, sort of one of the goofiest, two dimensional villains that you can think of,

Nick: Right.

Alex: But he definitely is like one of the best villains that I can think of for that exact reason, especially for children who do grow up with a lot of like trauma and that kind of nature, and like grow up in like the system, how hard it is for kids in general to bring cases against like adults in their lives.

Um, yeah, God, that is such a good point. I really love that.

Nick: Right. And I really love that, like, until you start thinking of it that way, you probably don't think of him as being that great of a villain, you know, even putting him on here. He was one of the last ones that I added to my list and I quote,

"putting him next to the others it's hard to see him being on the same level and perhaps he's not, but I just, I just have to give love to a villain that is so classic,"

but, you know, actually talking it through beyond the couple of notes that I put down, I'm like, Yeah, no, he is a fucking fantastic villain,

Alex: Right? Like pretty S tier, you know, like not necessarily like a sympathetic villain or something or somebody that you would like want to hang out with, but like very classically, like-

Nick: Just Grade-A bad guy.

Alex: Just good, good, bad guy.

Nick: [laughs] Alright, you want to talk about one of yours?

Alex: Sure thing!

Nick: I feel like we talked about Olaf for three years.

Alex: Absolutely. Cause I would love to follow up on that one with sort of my analog for that: um, another person that I don't find super sympathetic. Uh, but I do find to be a pretty good villain, which is The Handler from The Umbrella Academy.

Which, um, I'm trying to figure out how much to talk about her.

I'm going to try and stay away from plot as much as possible.

Nick: Good luck.

Alex: Um, just for people that haven't watched season two yet.

Right.

But just like, I feel like she's also someone that is so representational of like literal systems.

Nick: Right!

Alex: Um, and also someone that has put so much of herself into the establishment and like so much faith into it that it's kind of like consumed her in this way that she kind of genuinely thinks that she's doing the thing that she's supposed to be doing, that's like better for everyone. Um, and season two it's a little bit, uh, kind of on the fence about that one, but especially in like season one and early season two, I love a good villain that mirrors people that you might meet.

Nick: Right, absolutely.

Alex: Like, Oh, we love a good bad boss [laughs]

Nick: Yeah, she definitely was just kind of in season one, a big stand in for just like the world's shittiest boss that, you know, will actually slit your throat if you don't get things done on time.

But I think that even still in season two, she holds some of that capitalism propaganda kind of thing of she loses her position and, and really loses her identity and is willing to do whatever it takes to not only get her position back, but go even further. And I feel like that's really, I hate to say apt again, but apt for how capitalism kind of makes us all be.

Alex: Yeah!

Nick: You have to work as hard as you can to get all the way up the ranks. And you know, you slip up once, maybe twice and you're demoted and everything goes downhill and you either find a way to deal with that or you don't. And. You, you know, you spiral. And I think that there's so much, especially in the United States where we are, there's this really intense correlation between your job and your identity?

Alex: Yes!

Nick: I feel like, especially since we got married, whenever I talk about you. Just cause you know, you come up more in conversations because people like to call you my other half. And like, that's one of the first things that comes up after I tell people your name is "what do they do?" And it's really hard to have hobbies outside of a job.

Alex: Exactly.

Nick: Especially, in the generation that we're in. If you do have a hobby outside of a job, you're trying to make it become your job.

Alex: Exactly.

Nick: And I feel like that's a lot kind of how she seemed to be, was just this, her identity was very, very intertwined with her job. And so it, to her, it must've felt like her identity got stripped away.

And then she was like, okay, well, I don't like that powerlessness. So I'm going to flip it around.

Alex: Exactly, exactly. And like, that's something that I think is so interesting with the whole commission and that I love so much that originally that was just kind of like a funny kind of gag about the show during- I'm gonna talk a little bit about season one since it's been out for a minute.

Nick: Yeah, it's been out for over a year.

Alex: And I just think it's so interesting seeing someone like Hazel compared to like the handler, um, when it comes to like when your job starts to turn against you. And just kind of, especially with the handler, what I thought was so interesting about her, especially like hearing you talk about it. Um, the flip in season two makes a lot of sense to me because of the way that capitalism is talked about is like this huge, like meritocracy and just sort of like, Oh, you're supposed to get what you work for.

And like, you know, this like thing happens to her and, uh, she expects to be welcomed back and she made this huge, like sacrifice for the commission and to just kind of deal with what she dealt with. Then it's like, of course, she's going to kind of, have a reaction to it. And it's really interesting seeing the ways that different people react to things like that, because I feel like that's a very much a moment where either it radicalizes you or you like latch on harder ever until the establishment.

And she kind of did both.

Nick: Yeah. Somehow she did both in all of the worst ways,

Alex: Literally.

Nick: And talking about things now, 'cause we hadn't really gotten into this conversation too, too much because we wanted to have this conversation on the podcast.

Alex: Yes.

Nick: And until this conversation, I didn't sympathize with her at all.

I was just like, yeah, I know she's 100% bad. Like, well, nobody is a hundred percent bad. She's like 99% bad. And so I really don't sympathize with her, but thinking of it and talking like this now, I'm like well, you know what, actually,

Alex: right.

Nick: You know, if I had a job and I had to leave for reasons and I came back and they were like, Oh yeah, you're demoted. I would be pissed. I would lose my ever loving mind!

Alex: Oh yeah.

Nick: I wouldn't go to the links that she does, but that's because in, uh, in our universe, jail exists

Alex: [laughs]

Nick: and I don't want to go there!

Alex: Would not like to go to real jail.

Nick: Would not like to go to real jail! [laughs]

Alex: Oh gosh. So that was definitely my, a big one for me was the handler. I have a lot of feelings about her.

Nick: Right? Since we're on the umbrella Academy, do you want to go to your other one?

Alex: Yes. We just finished up watching it. So that's why I have so many from them.

Nick: Yeah, a lot of these favorite villains, uh, I've mentioned in the previous episode that I have a bad memory and I'm probably going to mention it in every episode because I have a bad memory.

Uh, But a lot of these are shows that I just watched so they're my favorite villains right now. In two months, they'll be different. And probably two months ago they were totally different. Um, a lot of these shows are just shows that we recently watched. And if I was able to unlock all of my memory, they would probably be completely different, you know?

So. Don't come at me for my favorite villains. Don't be like, how could you not talk about XYZ villain? They're the best one that was ever made.

Alex: Right? Like, I'm just like, I've consumed so much media in my lifetime. I don't know.

Nick: I've consumed so much media in the last couple of months.

Alex: Yeah.

Nick: What else was I supposed to do?

Alex: Right?

Nick: I'm not going outside.

Alex: [laughs] Right. No. Yeah. I'm absolutely the same. Like so many of mine are things that I've watched recently. So grain of salt, but, um, one of my favorite recent villi-villians, uh, one of my favorite recent villians is Vanya Hargreeves. [laughs]

Oh my God. I live and die for Vanya Hargreeves.

Nick: That one, we really probably shouldn't get too much into what happens in season two, because if we talk about anything about season two, it'll be a spoiler.

Alex: I can and will cry.

Both: [laugh]

Alex: That's a promise and a threat. [laughs]

Nick: But, at this point, if you haven't seen season one, I just I'm so sorry at this point, like that's your bad.

It was one of, it's been in the top 10 on Netflix for forever. Season one came out over a year ago. I'm sorry. Go watch it before we ruin it. Just pause this, leave, come back. We'll be waiting. Okay. Are you back now? Let's talk about Vanya Hargreaves.

Alex: Let's talk about her. She's the best.

Nick: [laughs]

Alex: Oh my God. I love her so much because like I love a good heel turn so much.

Um, and I think they did it really well with her, um, because I love that they don't pull any fucking punches. Um, like the stuff that she does is pretty heinous, but also I love that they don't shy away from the fact that like, pretty much at every turn when things go wrong with her, the obvious option, and the thing that pretty much all of the siblings and everyone, like, even not the siblings agrees, is like the best intervention is like rehabilitation. Um, and like just fucking talking to her and being nice to her. And I love it when a show. Is willing to not just be like, Oh yeah, this person became a villain, but you're still supposed to like them.

So the most they're going to do is like kind of shove someone a little bit. Like, no, she like. I dunno, she like kills people like multiple people. And like, one of them is like a nice old man, like, you know,

Nick: a nice old monkey

Alex: a nice old monkey, like he's adorable and she just like- Oh, it's brutal. But like, At pretty much every turn, you still sympathize with her because of the way that they play out what she's going through.

I don't know if that's a thing that everyone sympathizes with, but I definitely do.

Nick: Yeah, absolutely. Like for me the first time that I watched it through, when it first came out, I didn't see any of it coming the second time I knew it was coming and I still was like, "Oh my God, that's right!" And even the third time when I finally like watched it with you, I knew! I just watched it like a week before.

Alex: Right.

Nick: And I was just like, Oh, my God. I forgot already.

Alex: That's cold.

Nick: But again, with my personal tragic backstory, I get it, man. If I had those powers, I get it. I would snap. You know again, please don't play this episode in a court of law.

Both: [laugh]

Alex: After I have snapped, please don't-

Nick: After I have snapped. Uh, can somebody please go through and scrub this episode from the internet? [laughs]

Um, but, you know, with having all of her memories erased from her childhood and having them all come rushing back at once and also then, you know, turning around and asking your family for forgiveness, for the bad things that you've done since realizing that, that you didn't have any of these memories as a kid.

And. You know, after having been manipulated and "dealing" with said manipulator, uh, and coming back to like beg for forgiveness and like talk. And having them lock you up because they're scared of you. I would have snapped. I would have snapped so much sooner, probably, you know,

Alex: Oh my God. I ooh that whole scene, I- just like ask Nick. I was dying because like, Oh my God, The whole, like fact that the, um, the little like jail cell thing that she's in is like soundproofed, killed me because it really. I feel like did extra, just in the fact that, uh, like everyone, except for Luther basically was on the side of like, "Hey, no, she's our sister. We need to let her out and talk to her because she's still our sister." And like, she cries at bugs dying. Like, are you kidding me? Like she was going through something, but like, she can't hear any of that. All she sees is people yelling and she's like in a little cage.

Nick: Right. She can't hear any of that.

And also at the end, all of them decide to side with Luther anyways, you know, they're not happy about it, but they leave her in there. So, you know, she can't understand that they ha- they were arguing for her and that, you know, Luther kind of overpowered them. But I also think that it's really funny because in that scene, that was the most, um, diplomatic argument that they'd had all season, you know, like Diego almost killed Luther in episode one, but if you'll notice he didn't draw a weapon at all in that episode against Luther-

Alex: Rude!

Nick: -Like suddenly they're just talking?

Alex: [scoffs] Bad timing.

Nick: Right. You know? So like, of course she's gonna snap. And so I feel like she is an incredibly sympathetic villain. And I love her and I just... [chuckles]

Alex: Right, I just feel like it's so masterful that you can make a villain that's like that sympathetic and also like, so distructive.

Nick: Just absolutely brutal.

Alex: Just so brutal. Oh my God. I love her so much. And I feel like this is a good introduction to what. I talk about as my, you know, how some people have like, um, fantasy football leagues?

Nick: Yeah. [laughs]

Alex: I have a uh, fantasy DBT group. Um, because- [laughs] I am a big fan of dialectical behavior therapy. And, um, I'm not going to give like a whole thing on that, but basically like for those who don't know, uh, it's a therapy that's largely geared towards people who have been through like, traumatic situations.

And a lot of the time, uh, when we're watching a piece of media, I'll do the, like, pausing it to talk for like half an hour thing, except I'll like, pause it and I'll turn to Nick and I'll be like, I have a new person that I want to invite to my fantasy DBT group. [both laugh] And Vanya is definitely in the fantasy DBT group.

Nick: Oh yeah. Absolutely.

Alex: Along with several others on this list you will meet soon.

Nick: Yeah. I think a couple on my list too. You're just like, come on, man. Come on.

Alex: You're invited. I believe in you.

Nick: Yeah. I think that a couple that you really want to be in your DBT group... Some that kind of started your fantasy DBT group where Zuko and Azula.

Alex: Yes!

Nick: And I think that it's really funny because on my list I have Azula. And on yours you have Zuko,

Alex: I sure do.

Nick: Uh, just since we've been talking about yours for a minute, I'll I'll go ahead and talk about Azula.

Alex: Hell yeah.

Nick: Uh, she's very arguably a sympathetic villain.

Alex: Yes!

Nick: And I think that following up after Vanya, I can't say that Vanya is simpathetic, and Azula's not, you know, you know, she has some very serious, very obvious mental health issues, you know, in the last couple of episodes, there's a point where even Zuko kind of is like, Oh, she's kind of lost it. And, I love that because he acts like it's so minimal how much she's lost it. And meanwhile, she's like over there, like sweating and panting and she's got the most fucked up haircut. Cause she gave herself- [laughs]

Alex: She has like the full like breakdown bangs and everything. Like we've all been there.

Nick: [laughs] Right, um, and I feel like with those two, it brings up a very intense conversation about nature versus nurture because they're siblings, they were raised by the same parents, you know, they both had the same mom, the same dad.

And so I feel like it's easy to say, Oh, well, Zukos nature is to be a good guy. And that's why he ended up a good guy. And Azula his nature is just to be uh, crazy, I guess, but. I feel like it's still a lot: nurture because Zuko had such a more intense, close relationship with his mother who was the nice one. And it seemed like Azula had a lot more of a relationship with her father who was an asshole.

Alex: Right.

Nick: And, you know, that's not saying that, Oh, well, if you have a mother figure in your life, then you're just going to turn out to be a good guy. And you know, if you more only have a father figure, then you're just going to be a little asshole. That's not it. The characters were-

Alex: Yeah. Absolutely.

Nick: You know, down to the point of like Zuko and Azula's grandpa on their mom's side-or their great grandpa on their mom's side was avatar Roku. So like she was meant to be their good half and the dad was meant to come from the bad half: big, huge air quotes on good and bad, but, you know, uh, And something else with Azula that I definitely can kind of relate to is that she was born a prodigy.

Alex: Yeah!

Nick: And that's something that got mentioned is, you know, at first, when she was young, she didn't have to work for her fire bending skills, she just had them. And, you know, as someone who was the smart kid, when I was younger and like got put into all of these like big, smart kid classes and saw the other kids that got put into the big smart kid classes, you kind of go one of two ways where either like you start pushing yourself to insanity, to continue being the smart kid and the prodigy, and like still be seen as perfect because you've been kind of bestowed with this perfect-ness and, you know, everybody sees from you and you feel you have to keep up; or you get totally overloaded and give up, I got totally overloaded and gave up. Azula got obsessed with that perfection because she was so young.

Alex: Yeah.

Nick: When she got, uh, You know, when she was already being told, Oh, you're a prodigy. You did it perfectly like you're so much better than your older brother. And, you know, so I think that following that path of perfection definitely led her to having that breakdown, you know, and not being able to have genuine friends.

Because she was so obsessed with being seen as like the most perfect and the most powerful, you know, especially with her dad being, being in, wanting to be the most powerful man in the world. How do you follow that up?

Alex: Exactly.

Nick: Especially with your brother being an outcast and totally banished and like, you know, seen as a loser, you have to work so hard for people to not think that you're going down that same path as your stinky little brother, you know?

Both: [laugh]

Alex: Exactly. Yeah. And I feel like even like, from the perspective of like, you know, when she kind of goes off the rails as well, and just kind of thinking about the things that sorta lead up to that and like the family dynamics and all of that, and just like. How much- I don't know. I found a lot of like sympathy with her and like her family dynamics, especially with Zuko where like in their own way- like, you can very much tell that, like, she just kinda wants to have like a family, but she doesn't totally know what that is supposed to look like in a lot of ways. Like, not like she just wants that, but like, I feel like in a lot of ways she does want that. It was just like, "you should come back and live with us."

But like she doesn't, she's a really classic example, I feel like, of people use the tools that they have in order to navigate their lives and like the things that she's been shown her whole life have been, you know, like manipulation and just like shows of force and things. So it's like in order to get like love, which is something and like, Being able to be around like her brother again, like she does all these things that like, as we're watching it for the first time, we're just like, Oh God, like that's so shitty.

And it is shitty, but it's like, kind of thinking about it again. And like seeing her, especially in like season three, like ah, damn , this is just sort of what she knows how to do. And she might not even totally know she's doing it.

Nick: Right. You know, because, with the adults that she had in her life, especially with her and Zuko's mom leaving when she did, I mean, not that she had a choice. Zuko had a lot more time with their mom who was the good one, but then Azula was so much younger. I think that there, I think there's a point where she talks about like, not even remembering what their mom looks like.

Alex: I want to say so.

Nick: You know, so of course, like all she knows is her crazy ass dad and her crazy ass grandpa.

And she knows that her dad killed her grandpa to get power, you know, and seeing him get that power through brute force and through manipulation. How else is she supposed to, you know, go about? And I think that Zuko then in the beginning definitely shows that same, but he's so blessed with having his uncle Iroh to guide him and show him that that's not how it's done, but Azula doesn't get that.

And it's, it's really easy to sympathize her thinking sympathize with her. Thinking about those specific things, but I feel like it's also really hard because she did have opportunities to, fix that and-and be able to think critically about things. And she just chose not to. And I, and I don't know, i-it's one of those things where like, it's just hard, you know,

Alex: Mhmm.

Nick: Like I understand why she did everything that she did. But then there's just so much to me, that's like, come on you could've just...

Alex: Right. Like, come on, man.

Nick: You know, like your friends turned against you to join the other side. Like that could have been your opportunity, man. And it's like for the show, I'm so glad that they didn't then have her turn around and be the good guy because that would have been so annoying if every single bad guy who was like, Oh, actually it's time for my redemption arc now.

Alex: I'm radio rebel! [ laughs]

Nick: I'm radio rebel! I'm lemonade mouth! [laughs] But just thinking about like, if she were a real person, I'm like, come on, man. You could have.

Alex: Right. Absolutely.

Nick: I'm just like, you're going to continue to be on the side that everyone that it seems like you do love and care about in your own way is against?

Alex: Like, I feel like she reminds me a lot in that very same way of, um, like kind of what we're talking about with the handler of just like, what happens when the thing that, you know, Kind of turns against you and is like destabilized and it's just like, do you like cling on for dear life or do you like jump ship?

And it's just like, God does she cling on for dear life!

Nick: Oh, she clings on for dear life. Meanwhile, Zuko, you know, jumped ship and realizes that, uh, there's better things for him to do then try to please his father and family, and like,

Alex: yeah,

Nick: the sweet, awkward boy,

Alex: My sweet, sweet boy, God, I love him so much. [Nick laughs]

Oh my goodness. Like it's so funny because I'm just like, do all of the villains that I like come in twos and like follow a pattern because now I'm just like, yeah. So I like the handler and Vanya and then it was just like, yeah. And then Azula and Zuko. And I'm just like, yeah. So then you have the one that's like very establishment and kind of like loses it.

And then you have the one that like, kind of, uh, [laughs] Is that is like very sympathetic and, um, I'm very proud of them for going as hard as they did. Uh, but it still manages to remain sympathetic [both laugh] like that's something that I also really appreciate with them writing Zuko is that like, he didn't really go to being like on Aang's side until , like way towards the end. Um, despite the amount of times during the show that you're like, okay, this is the time I'm so ready. It's all happening. It's gonna happen. Um, but it doesn't, and it's always so frustrating, but again, it's one of those things where I'm kinda like glad that they waited until it made the most sense, because again, it's like you live your whole life, just kind of knowing this one thing and just kind of in pursuit of this singular goal, that your brain is just kind of structured around it.

And like, that's another thing that I love so much that like, while I was watching it, I was like, Oh, that's kind of like, Interesting that they did that, but the more I think about it, um, the more I appreciate it is like the whole like, breakdown that he has.

Nick: right where he like gets really sick?

Alex: Yeah, where he gets really sick and just kind of is like- I think he's like passed out even, or just like dang near for like several days, because of just like this moral decision.

Like, you know, I feel like that's something that I'm really glad that they gave him credit for. Um, and I feel like also kind of speaks to maybe some of why Azula didn't like defect or like why things like hit her as hard as they did. It was just sort of like how much this family has like told them that the things that they are doing is like the right way to be, that it's just like being physically ill, you know?

Nick: Right, absolutely.

Alex: And I'm just like, man, I love this 'lil guy so much and just kind of like watching him learn to navigate the world is so fascinating. And he's just such a teen.

Nick: Right?

Alex: I love villains that you can just very much see the aspects of them beyond, um, like what makes them like a villain. He's very much a teen boy. I love that about him so much.

Nick: Yeah. I think that that's something else that makes him a really, really good villain, and then hero, is that being young adults, I feel like- being young adults that have done not great things ourselves, like not as bad as them,

Alex: [chuckles] yeah

Nick: But you know, like, being a teenager and just wanting to be accepted and just wanting love and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And being willing to do whatever that takes and just following what your parents and like older people have told you is like how things are, and then starting to get older and realizing that that's not how it has to be, you know. And I feel like it really strikes a chord, you know, thinking about Zuko and then thinking about growing through your teens and like young adult stages of like everything that you do and everything that you think and say is dictated by authority figures in your life. And then kind of moving on to having less and less of those authority figures being authority figures, you know, even if they're still there. Kind of starting to be able to think for yourself and realize things and it really can make you physically sick to kind of make that change, you know? And for real humans, that change is really, really slow. For him, that kind of like s- that switch flipped really fast.

And so that sickness really got him.

Alex: Absolutely.

Nick: Yeah. I think that it's really incredible to watch it and see this like thing that I know that I've gone through. And I feel like a lot of people have gone through with, you know, growing up and getting a little bit older. I say that like, I'm super old, but like-

Alex: Ancient.

Nick: -Getting into the more, like getting into your early twenties and like. Really finally becoming an adult, even though there's never a point where you like really are an adult.

Alex: Yes.

Nick: I keep thinking every year, like this is the year somebody that like, people are gonna see me as an adult, but then everybody else also gets a year older and they're like, Oh no, no, no, no, no, honey, you're still a baby, and I'm like, shit! [laughs]

Alex: Oh my god [laughs]

Nick: But,you know, I don't know. [laughs]

Alex: That is so real. Like the only people that see you as an adult are like teenagers.

Nick: Right.

Alex: And it's just like "oh man, still?"

Nick: Right and I'm just like your babies though! [both laugh] Um, but just watching that and it feels very real that he got sick and it, it I'm really glad that that was there. [chuckles]

Alex: Mhmm. Big, agree.

Nick: You know, it's really almost frustrating when villains don't have that kind of like big averse reaction when they have a redemption arc where they're just like, "I'm cool now!"

Alex: No, it's cool now though.

Nick: Oh, no, we're good. We're good, actually,

Alex: actually I'm cool now.

Nick: [laughs] So speaking of villains that turn around-that just kind of like all of a sudden they're like fine now.

Alex: Surprise!

Nick: Surprise! I would love to talk about the diamonds from Steven universe. I, they are some of the most controversial villains.

Alex: Yeah.

Nick: But I love them all four of them [Alex chuckles] because, the reason that they're so controversial is because it's so easy to make them a stand-in for whatever you want them to be.

Alex: It really is.

Nick: And that's why I love them, you know, and for me, they always represented family. And to me that meant that always like meant something really deep because. [chuckles] Having my tragic backstory [Alex laughs] and having like, I didn't have great parents and they reminded me so much of that kind of thing of, you know, the pivotal episode when white diamond tries to pull pink diamond out of Steven, you know, and is like screaming and crying about how his name isn't Steven, it's Pink. He'll always be Pink, no matter what he tries to do. And like talking about how he's being silly for acting like this and talking about, uh, how he's acting like a spoiled child and like how she's so over all of his tantrums while she's throwing a huge tantrum.

Alex: Literal tantrum,

Nick: A literal tantrum. And I, I, I know that he has like that perfect line that I can't remember now, and I should have looked it up, but of just like "Oh, well, If I'm a spoiled little brat, that's throwing a tantrum then, uh, what are you?" I think that it is really frustrating that their redemption just kind of flipped like that really fast, but also it was very obvious that the show was coming to a close.

Alex: [chuckles] Yeah...

Nick: So I don't know that they could have done it any slower, but I think that it's also one of those things where. They realized all of the harm that they'd done. And so I think that making that flip was really still pretty realistic. And really necessary that it had to, it had to happen. And I think that it's also really easy to say that it happened super, super fast because we ha- we got that time skip and I don't know, it's just... and I, I love them as villains, even because after their redemption, they're still fucking awful, but they're trying, and they have to be reminded because I know you haven't seen the last, er-because I know that you watched the movie, but I don't, you haven't seen any of Steven universe future. Um, right?

Alex: I don't believe so, no.

Nick: Yeah. Uh, in the, or I can't remember if it's a movie or if it's Steven universe future, but they're still like slipping up and like calling him Pink and like, you know, and, calling other gems "lower life forms" still. And, but I think that it was really important to show that because they needed to grow.

And I think that that was some criticism that they got was that they flipped so fast that they didn't actually like grow. And then the show writers were just like, Oh, well just, just fucking wait a second. [both laugh] I love that they were able to make up and kind of fix things, but still show that they were growing and changing and they were still learning.

I also really love what they did with their redemption and forgiveness arc, where they let Steven still, you know, kind of talk to them and teach them and be civil with them without just kind of giving into their every whim and, you know, being overly nice to them in the name of forgiveness, because that is definitely something that I've seen in like different villain redemption tropes before is like, " Oh, well all is forgiven. We're good." And it's like, uh, all might be forgiven, but we are not good.

Alex: We are certainly not good.

Nick: And the diamonds having this idea of like, "Oh, we're forgiven and everything's good." And having Steven say "no, you're mostly forgiven. But we're not good. You still have a lot to learn and a lot to work on." And I think that that's really, really important to have a kid's show.

Alex: Yes, especially in the context of like, kind of talking about those sorts of relationships is like, I think a lot of the time where like inclined to give people a pass just for trying. [chuckles]

Nick: Right.

Alex: When it's like, you know, people should still be held accountable, even if it's like also being gentle. You know, even if it's like, I do care about you and I want you to do better. And that's why I am challenging you instead of just being like, Oh yeah, that's just how it is sometimes anyways, the past is the past, that's water under the bridge, goodbye! You know?

Nick: Right. Just like. Ah yeah, like you're still saying kind of crappy stuff, but like, you know, you're not like actually killing people anymore, so it's fine.

Alex: So I'm pretty sure we're good actually. [both laugh]

Nick: But yeah, I, I love them because they can stand in for so much because like, you know, for the people where it, they don't see them as like being stand-ins for fam- for shitty family members, they do see them as like politicians or capitalism or society at large. And I think that that's what makes them so great is that no matter what you see them as they still piss you off.

Alex: [laughs] That is so real.

Nick: Y'know, and even with pink diamond, like so far, we've only really talked about the other three, but like pink diamond is an incredible villain, because you, even after you learn about her being a villain, there's still so much of you that loves her because you've known her as this - as Rose this whole time. And this, this idealized different version of her that had changed.

So it's really easy to be like, Oh no, but like, That's Rose she's changed. She's different, but like there's still all of these moments and full episodes that show that like, even though she had grown and changed, there was so much that she still needed to do to grow and change into like being the best version of herself that she could be.

Alex: Right.

Nick: Which was Steven, you know, and I saw a theory a while back about it that was talking about that, about how her realizing that she needed to grow and change made her Rose, and then realizing that she had grown and changed as much as she could as Rose is what made her decide to have Steven and like become part of Steven because she'd done all that she could as, you know, what she was.

And that is such an incredible redemption, you know, for her, while also still being able to understand that there was never really a point where she was the good guy.

Alex: Right. Exactly.

Nick: You know, and they go into it in Steven Universe Future, where Steven has to deal with a lot of that stuff where it's like, he spent his whole life thinking that he was the good guy and being the good guy that it kind of came back to bite him in the ass, you know, as he got older and like starting to actually have to deal with things and kind of becoming the villain in his own story. And I just, ah I love it so much. [laughs]

Alex: Oh my Gosh.

Nick: Even though people wanna like, not love it. I'm just, I do. [both laugh]

Alex: Oh man, I really need to watch Steven Universe Future now cause that sounds really good.

Nick: I think that everybody should watch it, but yeah, like all of the Diamonds are such good villains because even with Pink, you know, just like with Azula you can understand where a lot of her anger and issues stemmed from. And even though you wish over and over again, that she would just fucking learn and do better, you can see where she just can't.

Alex: Right, where it's just like ingrained.

Nick: Right, where it's just so ingrained that like, pretty much the only thing that she can do is completely change into a different person, you know? And it's just, I love it. I love it. I love it. [both laugh]

Alex: Hell yeah.

Nick: I think that that's about all I can say about the diamonds right now.

Alex: That's so good.

Nick: Cause it's been, it's been a while since I've seen Steven Universe, so it's not fresh on my mind, but I know that I love them as villains.

Alex: Exactly, yeah. Just like one of those things where it's just like, "I don't know exactly how I feel, but I know that it's positive." [laughs]

Nick: Right, I absolutely should have used this episode as a reason to go back and binge watch everything.

Alex: [laughs] I'm doing research for the podcast.

Nick: Right. And I definitely did go back and kind of like do quote unquote "research" for this, uh, for some stuff but I thought that I would just kind of, for some reason, I thought that I would just kind of like remember more stuff as I went and I just didn't.

Alex: Imagine having a working memory.

Nick: Imagine.

Alex: Oh, gosh.

Nick: But yeah, you've got two that I am very excited to talk about.

Alex: Oh yeah, I sure do. Because I have, um, everyone's favorite icy boy. [laughs]

Nick: Everyone's favorite villain that is awful at being a villain.

Alex: He's real bad at it. Like I-- [laughs]-- um, the Ice Cream-- "Ice Cream"...?

Nick: The Ice Cream!

Alex: The Ice Cream Parasocial.

Nick: Welcome to our podcast, The Ice Cream, and--

Alex: The Ice Cream-- Ice Cream Parasocial is very bad at being a villain. [laughs]

I started to say at being a podcast. I hope we're not that bad at being a podcast yet.

Nick: I mean, we're only at episode two, so we're kind of bad at being a podcast.

Alex: Yeah. Like it hasn't happened.

Nick: Episode two is always bad at being a podcast.

Alex: But, uh, but yeah, no, the Ice King , from Adventure Time, Simon Petrikov. I love, I love him so much. Cause like, talk about a fucking 2D villain that ended up becoming extremely 3D while also still managing to be extremely 2D.

Nick: Right.

Alex: Oh my gosh. Um, like the first few episodes where you start to kind of figure out like who he is. And like, his backstory are so interesting because I feel like a lot of the things that I think are so fascinating about him are sort of like, I don't know. It like really makes you think a lot about like personality, I guess, and just brains and what makes us... us.

Nick: Mhmm.

Alex: And just like the amount of times that people will have interactions with him , who know him as Simon and like knew him, before he was the Ice King, who kind of like want that from him. And like, he can't really give that to them. And it's like frustrating for everyone involved.

Nick: Right.

Alex: And it's just so like interesting to kind of see those interactions happen. And just kind of like... when I was watching through Adventure Time and a lot of these episodes, uh, for the first time, going into my tragic backstory ever so slightly--

Both: [Laughing]

Alex: Uh, just dealing with a lot of mental health stuff, for myself and for just like some people in my life, it really was like cathartic, I guess, uh, to just sort of see a character that felt so representational of just the sort of like, not knowing who someone very familiar is. And almost then coming back around to like, love the new person anyways.

Nick: Absolutely.

Alex: Which I think is something that I do really appreciate a lot about adventure time. Is that in the end, like, you know, it doesn't really end up with him, like going back and like becoming Simon, like it's just like, no, I, one of my favorite quotes that I wish I knew off the top of my head, but.

Towards the end of adventure time, one of the later like ice King episodes, there's something in there that's something like, "I'm the ice King and I'm worthy of love too." and it just really like hit because it's just like, you know, when I was watching through the first few episodes, where you like, kind of figure out his backstory, I remember having a lot of like, emotions about it and just the sort of like, Oh man, you know, like dealing with mental health and like kind of this loss of a sense of self, or like sense of like other people that I knew in my life.

Um, And just kind of being like, man, I really want to get that back. Like, it really sucks that that's gone forever. And then like kind of going through a bunch of emotional acts in my own personal tragic backstory TM, um, and then ending up as an adult watching like some of the finale episodes of adventure time and like seeing this little moment happen where he kind of gets away from this, like, you know, sort of like two dimensional, silly villain kind of thing that he does to just be like, Hey, no, like I'm a person also. And you can also like me, you know?

Nick: Right, absolutely.

Alex: I'm my own guy. [laughs]

It's something about that just really hit was just like, no, there's things to love about this too. I also just love on the surface, um, just with him, how much he just, wants affection and like how much that changed over the course of the series and how at the beginning it was very much like, Oh, it was like this creepy old man towards-

Nick: just stealing princesses.

Alex: [laughing] Yeah. Like just stealing princesses and then over the course of the series, just sort of becoming just like, he just wants some pals. He just wants friends.

Nick: Right, and

Alex: just

Nick: kind of figuring out that the companionship that he thought that he wanted with the princesses, he was able to find it in other places with just having friends.

Alex: Right.

Nick: I feel like that's something that people genuinely go through, is you know, thinking that they, really want this relationship, this romantic relationship with people, but, in reality, all they really want and need is like a couple of good friends, a couple of good pals.

Alex: [laughs] Right. And like, that's one of the things that I love a lot about adventure time too, is that I feel like it's a show that very much kind of grew with its audience. Um, and just kind of even using that as an example, and thinking about like, you know, when you're growing up and you're a preteen to like a young teenager and everything is about like, Oh, you gotta date.

And like, you have to find a partner, or something, um, partner feels like a weird term. Cause I started to say like boyfriend or girlfriend, but like, you know, gender neutral something, find someone to date, I guess. Um, and that's like the whole thing that you do, and then just kind of like growing up and being like, Oh, I can get this from other places. I feel like that's so much, like a lot of the tone in the show is just sort of like, just kind of growing up with the people that grew up with it, um, until I kinda came to a close and they did so many satisfying things, with the ice King in like the final season.

And I'm just like, man, if you haven't finished adventure time, then you should really finish adventure time. Cause it's amazing.

Nick: Right, I really want to go through and rewatch it now because-

Alex: Same!

Nick: I vaguely like, I, I know what you're saying and I know that I've like, I know that I've seen it and I know that I know the story, but like I don't have a whole lot to add because I it's been so long since I've seen it like to the point that I believe that if I watched it, it would be like the first time again,

Alex: No, yeah, same.

Nick: So I'm just like-

Alex: It's been a few years.

Nick: Yeah. I'm was just like, I should definitely rewatch that.

Alex: Yeah, like, I feel like that honestly just speaks to how much it hit me uh that this is like my one memory, like the one, my one brain cell is just clinging desperately to the ice King from like, I don't know, 2018 or whatever.

Nick: Absolutely.

Alex: [laughs] But yeah, that was one of my big boys that I really wanted to get to one of my cartoon boys. I'm realizing now how many of mine are very mental health oriented. [laughs]

Nick: Well, I mean, that makes sense. Like, I know that I kind of talked shit about people being defined by their jobs in the beginning, but your job is in mental health and like, [ laughs]

Alex: Yeah, like it's something that I'm passionate about and I feel like I would be passionate about, even if it weren't my job. Um, but yeah, and like, that's definitely a part of the lens that I used to look at media and it shows.

Nick: Right.

Alex: Because my other big boy that I really wanted to talk about today is, from a little show that I feel like doesn't get enough love, and it should get more

Nick: Nowhere near enough love.

Alex: It's amazing. Um, if you haven't watched Kipo on Netflix. I forget what the full title is. I always just call it Kipo

Nick: uh, Kipo and the age of wonder beasts?

Alex: I believe so. Yeah.

Nick: Something like that, but I mean, you can find it just by looking up Kipo. Nothing else is called Kipo.

Alex: Yeah. Like, um, it's a really, really, really good show, and it has a villain that actively made me mad when I started to like him.

Nick: Oh yeah. Same, and I knew, cause I watched it before you watched it. And then we were watching it together and I knew it was going to piss you off when you started to like him, because in the first, like half of the season, it was just very much like, yeah, fuck this guy. I want nothing to do with this guy. Get him off the show. I hate him so much, but I knew the twist that was coming and I was like, you are going to be so mad.

Alex: Get them out of my fucking sight.

Nick: Right. They're just like, Oh, this guy sucks. And I'm like little do you know, he sucks AND he has a tragic backstory.

Alex: Yes. And you're going to love him. [laughs]

Oh my gosh. Scarlemagne, I- oh my God. He also very much follows my theme of villains that I adore when they frustrate me, because they don't, um, know, how to be good. Or like when you, think that they're going to, uh, I know that there's like a term. A term for like, whatever the opposite of a heel turn is, but I don't, I guess like redemption arc.

But like, when you think they're going to have a redemption arc and then they kind of like psych you out with it.

Nick: Right. Because they just don't, you can like, see that they just don't comprehend.

Alex: Right. Like they're just not quite there yet. And like, that's something that they do with Zuko, I feel-

that's something they do with Zuko a few times that made me real mad every time, but I'm also glad that they did it. And it's something that they did with Scarlamagne that I was like, Oh my God, I can't believe that they're doing this. That's amazing. And then they [laughs] and then they faked us out and I was like, Yeah, that's fair. [laughs]

Nick: Right.

Alex: That makes sense, because it makes so much sense for his character. Um, just because so much of what goes on with him is very, again, like the tools that you're given to navigate the world are the ones that you use to navigate the world.

Nick: Absolutely. You know, and when it starts to get into his tragic backstory and right before it kind of shows why he starts thinking the way that he does it's so just, it's so sad because you get to watch him kind of have that mental break and that kind of mental shift of, you know, being really trusting of everything around him, to realizing that the only way that he's going to be able to survive in this world is by being a villain and by being a total asshole and, you know, and the way that the show does it by showing him years after being said asshole, it's just like, ah, man, like, why is he like that?

And then they show you why he's like that. And you're like, I mean-

[both laugh]

-fair that's fair, but I don't like it

Alex: [laughs] That is so true. Like, honestly, just the fact that like walking away from like the episode where you start to figure everything out and I'm just like, you know, a lot of the time I keep coming at things from, uh,

I really like going on the like, am I the asshole? subreddit and I just keep being like, everyone sucks here [laughs] you know, um, and it's just so wild with him, like how he was very much another person where it's like, he does a lot of really awful shit, but like, while he's doing it, you're still just like, no, yeah that's fair. [laughs]

Nick: Right. You know, I feel like it's not too much of a spoiler to say that, you know, he does start to really care for Kipo. She's the main character. And everybody loves her. Like, you know, he starts to really care for her and there's things that she asks of him that he genuinely tries to do. But he's been in this mindset for so long that he just can't.

Really, uh, he thinks that what he's doing is good and to us and, you know, to the other characters, it's so obvious that what he's doing is not good, but he genuinely thinks that he's showing affection at this point, because that's all the affection that he's known for the last like half or more of his life, you know?

Alex: Yeah. And like, it's so interesting with their relationship too, because it reminds me a lot of like the, um, uh, concept in like, Learning in psychology of have like assimilation and accommodation, um, well, where it's basically just like adapting the world around you to like fit your existing worldview when you get new information, versus adapting your worldview when given new information.

And I think that's so much of what makes the bait and switch like really like hit with that whole sequence is that you. I think that it's like, Oh yeah, you see the, you know, he knows that Kipo is good. And like, that means that he's like learned in that his worldview is changing and you know, it doesn't necessarily work like that off the bat, especially when you're dealing with somebody that has that much going on and has had to navigate the world that much with just like so much going against him, I guess, um, that then to see that it was more of a situation of just like, Oh no, this one person is good.

Nick: Right?

Alex: No, everyone else still sucks. But this one person is good. My love language is murder.

Both: [laugh]

Nick: God. I know that we are not popular enough to get somebody to animate a bit, but all I want is for somebodyto animate my love language is murder.

Alex: My love language is murder!

Nick: Like, somebody who's got like little heart eyes and then like they say murder, like a knife shows up. [both laugh] Oh, that would be so funny.

Alex: Oh my God. Just like, add that to like the five love languages.

Um, in order I'd say that I'm usually kind of a gift giver, but outside of that, I do, I do really like murder. [laughs]

Nick: Oh my God.

Alex: Oh, God. [ laughs]

Nick: All right. And this has been Ice Cream Parasocial! [laughs]

Alex: Do not read this in a court of law [laughs]

Nick: but do follow us on Twitter and Instagram @parasocialpod and on, and subscribe to our YouTube channel, uh, Ice Cream Parasocial, and hopefully soon I'll be able to tell you to give us a good rating on iTunes.

Alex: Yeah!

Nick: We'll see ya next week!

Alex: Please. Apple podcasts. Notice us. [both laugh] I'm begging you.

Nick: apple senpai notice me. [laughter, followed by outro song]

#queer podcast #new podcast #parasocialpod #transcribed podcast

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barefootdancinghospital · 5 years ago

Link

“The world might be ending.

* * *

There’s a commonly replicated piece of anarchist folk art that means a lot to me. I don’t know who drew it. It’s a drawing of a tree with a circle-A superimposed. The text of it reads “even if the world was to end tomorrow I would still plant a tree today.”

I grew up into anarchy around this piece of art. It was silkscreened as patches and posters and visible on the backs of hoodies and the walls of collective houses. It was graffitied through stencils and it was photocopied in the back of zines. It’s a paraphrasing of a quote misattributed to Martin Luther (the original protestant Martin Luther, not Martin Luther King, Jr., although plenty of people misattribute the quote to him as well). The original quote is something like “Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree.” The earliest reference to it anyone can seem to find is from the German Confessing Church, a Christian movement within Nazi Germany that sought to challenge Nazi power. The quote was used to inspire hope, to inspire people to action.

That’s something I can get behind.

* * *

There’s this book that means a lot to me, On the Beach, by Nevil Shute. I’ve never read it. I can’t bring myself to. I think about it quite often, regardless.

The novel describes a nuclear war destined to kill all life on earth, and it describes the last days of people living in Australia waiting for the inevitable death of all things. It describes how they live their lives, how they find meaning during the apocalypse. It’s a book about how to live without hope. It’s a book of resignation.

It’s too much for me, I think, at least right now.

* * *

The world might be ending.

A lot of people will argue with me about that. They will correctly point out that for large numbers of people all over the world, especially in the parts of the world long ravaged by Western imperialism, the world has been ending for a long time. They will correctly point out that the world itself isn’t going anywhere, that change is constant, and even if what is left behind by climate catastrophe and war is a scorched desert, it’s probable that life will continue. Human life, non-human animal life, and plant life will all, in some form or another, survive all of this.

People will argue, correctly once more, that most every generation has believed that the world was ending. The machine gun slaughter of World War I, the genocide of World War II, the Doomsday Clock of the Cold War, the AIDS epidemic, those all must have felt like the apocalypse. For entire peoples, they were. Yet here some of us are today, alive.

None of those arguments detract from the fact that it sure feels like the world is ending.

Mountains are blown up for coal to pump poison into the air, pipelines clearcut the last vestiges of the wild to help us pump more poison into the air. Oceans are swallowing islands, hundred-year storms happen every year, and it feels like every day we break new climate records. A sense of urgency about coming disaster is fueling a rise of “I got mine, fuck you” nationalism, and climate scientists are being ignored to an unconscionable degree.

The world is ending.

It’s always ending, but it’s ending a lot right now. For me and the people I’m close to, it’s ending more dramatically than it was when I was born thirty-seven years ago.

That’s fucking paralyzing.

The news is full of extinction and fascism and death and death and death.

And we’re expected to get up in the morning and go to work.

* * *

For awhile, I coped by means of a cycle of denial and panic. The potential apocalypse was, basically, too-much-problem. I couldn’t wrap my head around it or its ramifications, so I acted like it wasn’t happening. Until, of course, some horrible event or reminder of the apocalypse broke over a certain threshold and sent me spiraling into despair. Then numbness took over once more and the cycle began again.

That didn’t do me much good.

About a year ago, I decided to embrace four different, often contradictory, priorities for my life. I run my decisions past all of them and try to keep them in balance.

Act like we’re about to die. Act like we might not die right away. Act like we might have a chance to stop this. Act like everything will be okay.

Act like we’re about to die

Every breath we take is the last breath we take. You Only Live Once. Smoke em if you got em. Do As Thou Wilt. Memento Mori. Our culture is full of euphemisms and clever sayings that focus around one simple idea: we’re mortal, so we might as well try to make the most of the time we have.

Embracing hedonism has a lot to recommend it these days. It’s completely possible that the majority of us won’t be alive ten or twenty years from now. It’s completely possible, although a lot less likely, that a lot of us won’t be alive in a year.

I used to think, when I was younger, that I was a terrible hedonist. As a survivor of sexual and psychological assault and abuse, I’ve never had much luck with drug use or casual sex. But fucking and getting wasted, while perfectly worthwhile pastimes, aren’t the only ways to live in the moment. Hedonism is about the pursuit of pleasure and joy. The trick is to find out what gives you pleasure and joy.

For myself, this has meant giving myself permission to pursue music, to sing even though I’m not trained, to play piano and harp. To travel, to wander. To seek beautiful moments and accept that they might be fleeting. I’ll rudely paraphrase the host of the rather wholesome podcast Ologies, Alie Ward, and say “we might die so cut your bangs and tell your crush you like them.”

My hedonism is a cautious one. I’m not looking to take up smoking or other addictions. I’m not trying to live like there’s a guarantee of no tomorrow, just a solid chance of no tomorrow. Frankly, this would be true regardless of the current crisis, but it feels especially important to me just now.

Act like we might not die right away

Preppers have a bad reputation for a good reason. The people stockpiling ammunition and food in doomsday bunkers by-and-large don’t have anyone else’s best interests at heart. Still, being prepared for a slow apocalypse, or dramatic interruptions in the status quo, makes more and more sense to more and more of us.

Preparing for the apocalypse is going to look different to every person and every community. For some people it will mean stockpiling necessities. For other people, securing the means to grow food.

One thing I’ve learned from my friends who study community resilience and disaster relief, however, is that the most important resource to shore up on isn’t a tangible one. It’s not bullets, it’s not rice, it’s not even land or water. It’s connections with other people. The most effective means of survival in crisis is to create community disaster plans. To practice mutual aid. To build networks of resilience.

Every apocalypse movie has it all backwards when the plucky gang of survivors holes up in a cabin and fends off the ravaging chaotic hordes. The movies have it backwards because the ravaging hordes are, in the roughest possible sense, the ones doing survival right. They’re doing it collectively. Obviously, I’m not advocating we wear the skulls of our enemies and cower at the feet of warlords (though wearing the skulls of would-be warlords has its appeal). I’m advocating staying open to opportunity and building collective power.

There are infinite reasons not to count on holing up in a cabin with your six friends as an apocalypse plan, but I’ll give you two of them. First, because living a worthwhile and long life as a human animal requires connections with a diverse collection of people with diverse collections of skills, ideas, and backgrounds. It’s all fun and games in your cabin until your appendix bursts and none of you are surgeons—or you’re the only surgeon. Likewise, small groups of people who tend to agree with one another are subject to the dangers of groupthink and the echo chamber effect, which will limit your ability to intelligently meet challenges that face you.

Second, because by removing yourself from society, you’re removing your ability to shape the changes that society will go through during crisis. If you go hide in the woods with your stockpile and your buddies, and fascists take over, guess what? It’s kind of your fucking fault. Because you weren’t at the meeting when everyone decided whether to be egalitarians or fascists. And guess what? Now that rampaging horde is at your doorstep, and they want your ammo and your antibiotics, and they’re going to get it one way or the other. Fascism is always best stamped out when it starts. It’s never safe to ignore it. Not now, not during any Mad Max future.

Tangible resources do matter, of course. Any likely scenario that prepping is good for won’t be so dramatic as an utter restructuring or collapse of society. It might mean food shortages, power outages, water contamination. It never hurts to keep nonperishable food, backup sources of power, and water filtration systems around for yourself and your neighbors.

Still, this is a terrible basket to put all your eggs into. You probably shouldn’t live out your days, whether they’re your last ones or not, over-preparing for something that may or may not come to pass.

Act like we might have a chance to stop this

We can and we should stop the worst excesses of climate catastrophe. We can and should stop fascism by whatever means necessary. Throwing up our hands and walking away from the problem is no solution.

It’s hard to remember that we have agency. Unless we were raised ultra-rich, we’ve had the concept of political and economic agency stripped from us at every turn. We’ve been told there are two ways to effect change: vote for politicians or vote with our dollars. Politicians in western democracies are likely incapable of changing things as dramatically as they need to be changed, and they certainly won’t bother trying unless we motivate them to do so in fairly dramatic ways. As for economic agency, there is a small handful of men with more wealth—and therefore power—than the rest of us combined.

We’ve been told we cannot take matters into our own hands, politically or economically. We’re not allowed to have a revolution. We’re not allowed to redistribute the wealth of the elite.

You’ll be shocked to know that I don’t put a lot of stock in what we are and aren’t allowed to do.

Still, even if we give ourselves permission to undertake it, revolution feels like an insurmountable challenge. We’ve got, optimistically, ten years to completely overhaul the economic system of the planet. It can be done. It has to be done. Yet it feels like it won’t be done.

We’re all running the cost/benefit analysis of acting directly. We all have different “fuck it” points—the point beyond which we can no longer prioritize our immediate wellbeing but instead must act regardless of the outcome. In the meantime, we’re waiting until it seems like we can act and actually have a chance of winning.

All over the world, even in some Western countries, people are no longer waiting. They’re acting. We need to be helping them, supporting them with words and actions, while we get ready to act here as well.

The revolution needs mediators and facilitators, medics and brawlers. It needs hackers and propagandists and it needs financiers and smugglers and thieves. It needs scouts and coordinators and it needs musicians and it needs people invested in the system to turn traitor. It needs lawyers and scientists and bookkeepers and copyeditors and cooks and it needs almost everyone, almost every skill.

One thing it doesn’t need, though, is managers. The people who claim to know how to run a revolution don’t know how to run a revolution or they would have done it by now. The authoritarian urge, to decide what the revolution should and shouldn’t look like, how people should and shouldn’t express their rage and reclaim their agency, will fail us every time. Authoritarian communism is the death of any revolution. Authoritarian liberalism is the death of any revolution. Even the more dogmatic anarchists will get in the way if given a chance. The revolution cannot be branded. Despite Hollywood representations of rebellions, they don’t work as well under a single banner. They are diverse, or they are not revolutions.

The revolution cannot be controlled by a vanguard of activists; if it is, it will fail. The revolution must be controlled by its participants, because only then will we learn how to claim agency over our own lives and futures.

We have a chance to stop this.

I forget that sometimes, but I shouldn’t.

Still, I can’t count on hope alone, or the days when hope fails me would lay me low.

Act like everything will be okay

All the times the world has come close to ending before, it hasn’t. It’s ended for some people, some cultures. Civilizations have collapsed. Ecosystems have radically shifted. Species have gone extinct—including the species of humans before homo sapiens. Colonization was an apocalypse. Some people survived those apocalypses, but plenty more didn’t.

Still, the world is still here and we’re still here.

Capitalism is a sturdy beast, quite adept at adaptation. Marx was wrong about a lot of things, and one of those things was the inevitability of the collapse of capitalism under the weight of its own contradictions. With or without capitalism, the society we live in might stagger on. We might curb the worst excesses of climate catastrophe through economic change or wild feats of geoengineering.

I won’t bet on it, but I won’t bet entirely against it either.

As much as I need to live like I might die tomorrow, I need to live like I might see a hundred years on this odd green and blue planet. Unless things change, I’m not burning every bridge. I’m trying to maintain a career. If I was certain to die under a fascist regime by 2021, there wouldn’t be much point in writing novels: they take too long to write, publish, and reach their audience. I get some joy from the writing itself, sure, but I get more joy from putting my art in front of people, of letting it influence the cultural landscape. With novel writing in particular, that takes time. That takes there being a future. I want there to be a future. Almost desperately. Not enough to bank on it completely.

I’m keeping some small portion of my time and resources invested in the potential for there to be a future is important for my mental health, because it keeps me invested in maintaining that health.

* * *

The world might end tomorrow, and it might not. If we can help it, at all, we shouldn’t let it end. We still ought to act like it might.

We ought to figure out what trees we would plant either way.

If you appreciate my writing and want to help me do more of it, please consider supporting me via Patreon.

“

#climate change

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vfdarkness · 5 years ago

Text

A Voice From Darkness - Ep1 - The Black Door

What follows below is a transcript of the first episode of A Voice From Darkness. To listen to the podcast - look for it on Apple Podcasts, Google, wherever you normally listen to podcasts, or here.

INTRO

Dark ambient drone.

RYDER

You find yourself alone in an abandoned manor. The furniture moves of its own accord, whispers resonate from empty rooms. The dead are unquiet all around you.

A beat.

RYDER

You need my help.

Dark ambient drone changes to:

INTRO MUSIC

RYDER

This is A Voice From Darkness.

Intro music continues, but gradually fades out.

ACT 1

RYDER

Hello. As always this is Dr. Malcolm Ryder, parapsychologist. You’re listening to A Voice From Darkness. If you’re having any problems that are paranormal, supernatural, unexplainable in any way please call in.

A beat.

RYDER

I’m here to help. Oh, and my producer is letting me know we have a call on the line. Tell us your name, caller.

All of Amanda's dialogue has the SFX as coming through a telephone.

AMANDA

Hello, Dr. Ryder, my name's Amanda Ful-

She cuts herself off.

AMANDA

Just Amanda.

RYDER

That's all right, Amanda - we don't need to know your last name. But we do need to know what you're calling about. What unnerving situation have you found yourself in?

AMANDA

Can I ask you a question first? Is that all right?

RYDER

Of course, please - ask away.

AMANDA

To be completely honest - and I'm sorry - but I've never listened to your show before. I've heard of it - obviously - otherwise I wouldn't be calling. But... do most people call in about vampires, zombies, werewolves? Those sorts of things?

RYDER

If I understand your question, what you're asking is: do most of our calls involve familiar paradigms of the supernatural? Is that correct?

AMANDA

Yes. I guess that's what I was getting at.

RYDER

Believe it or not - no. Most calls are... stranger. Outliers. Every conversation on this show, at its root, features an occurrence that the caller cannot explain by simply invoking the natural world. Vampires, werewolves, demons - perhaps sometimes people interpret the raw sensory data they take in as such creatures. But that does not mean they exist. At the very least not in ways we've traditionally conceived them. Does that make sense? Did I answer your question?

AMANDA

No. No - that answered my question. Thank you. It makes me feel better too. What I'm calling about - it's not like a ghost or demon. I don't think? I don't know what's happening, really.

RYDER

And what is that you've called about, Amanda?

A beat.

AMANDA

(uncertain)

A black door?

RYDER

A black door? Have you walked through this door and something happened? Did you witness a terrible being emerge from the door?

AMANDA

No. I haven't gone through - or any of that. I... I... I'm sorry I should have thought about what I wanted to say before calling. It's - it's complicated.

RYDER

For complicated things - I think it's best if we start at the beginning. When did you first notice the door?

AMANDA

The first time. Right, I probably should start with that. The first time was at a charity event at an art museum. I was there on a date - our second - the guy and me. The first didn't go great - but it wasn't terrible either - so I figured I'd invite him along with me. Only it was awful. Soon as we got there he ran up to the hor d'oeuvres and stuffed his face. Having a guy ignore you to graze on cocktail shrimp is... it's not attractive. Everyone was in the Impressionist wing. That's where the event was. So I slid myself under a velvet rope and took a stroll over to the Postmodern Contemporary Sculpture wing. It's my least favorite kind of art. I figured, "Why would anyone come here when they can spend the evening looking at real art?"

RYDER

I think you're being a little unfair. There's a few contemporary pieces I've seen that-

(interrupts self)

But you didn't call to talk art. Not the point of this call or show. Please - continue.

AMANDA

Right - so between this "sculpture" of a trashcan with the American flag in it and a robot standing in front of a tombstone that reads: RIP The Working Class - there's this black door. The Black Door.

RYDER

It's an art piece? Part of an exhibit?

AMANDA

That's what I thought - at first. The black door was the only thing in the room that didn't wear its subtext on its sleeve, so I went up to it. I wanted to figure out what the artist was communicating. I got close-

(interrupted)

RYDER

What about the door suggested the supernatural to you?

AMANDA

It just... drew me in. It felt like only a few seconds had passed - but this security guard shook me by the shoulder. Asked what I was doing there. I told him I was at the charity thing. He told me that ended hours ago. It was past two in the morning. My bad date and I, we'd gotten there - I don't know - around seven? I'd been staring at this black door for several hours.

RYDER

You experienced unexplained and mysterious passage of time? That's fantastic.

AMANDA

Why is that fantastic?

RYDER

Well it's not - I mean for you - but it's common across a multitude of sub-fields within the paranormal - from hauntings to alien abductions. So many possibilities...

AMANDA

Is it ever associated with black doors?

RYDER

I'm not sure. What did the guard say about the door?

AMANDA

The guard. I asked him about the artist responsible - who made the door - I thought it was a hypnotic sculpture or something? But he had no idea what I was talking about. He said he didn't see a door. Had never seen one there.

RYDER

It was invisible to him?

AMANDA

No. It vanished. I turned my attention away - to the guard - and when I looked back... it was gone. Disappeared.

A beat.

RYDER

A door that causes time lapses and can disappear? I can't explain it right now, but I'd be happy to research and get back to you on another night, Amanda. Would that be all right?

AMANDA

Doctor, I'm not done. That was just my first encounter. The black door - it's... following me.

A beat.

RYDER

Following you? How? Wait - hold that thought, Amanda. My producer is telling me we need to cut to our pre-recorded segment. I'm sorry, please stay on the line.

TODAY IN ODD AMERICA:

Eerie music plays in the background.

RYDER

On this day in Odd America we find ourselves in Moline, Illinois - the year 1938. After attending a community meeting at the First Methodist Church, the Dhondt family were never seen again. Husband and father Bryan spoke at that night's meeting. His wife Claire accompanied him, as did their only child - seven year old Sarah. Reports at the time stated the family walked home as they lived close to the church. Evidence suggests they arrived safely as daughter Sarah made a diary entry that very night - which noted nothing out of the ordinary. Sarah had played with her friends while her parents attended the meeting. They all went home in high spirits.

A beat.

RYDER

But the next morning, Bryan did not report to work at the John Deere factory. Claire missed her weekly Bible study. Sarah did not show up to school. Friends and family went to their home to learn the cause for their absences. Upon arrival, they found jack-o-lanterns in the bedrooms - two larger for the parents.

One smaller for the daughter. Each carved face made to resemble one of the Dhondts - Bryan, Claire, and Sarah. All contained burnt-out, melted candles.

A beat.

RYDER

The disappearance of the Dhondts is the first recorded case of the Jack-O-Lantern Murders - they're called murders - though this is a misnomer as no bodies have ever been recovered - only pumpkins carved to resemble the missing. Several cases every year have been reported across America since the Dhondts's disappearance. Who's committing these terrifying acts? Is it a singular entity or a coterie that's passed down this dark tradition over the years? And what's become of all the bodies? This is a wide and lonely country. They could be anywhere. And so - it remains a mystery.

A beat.

RYDER

This has been today in Odd America. Now back to our main show.

MUSIC FADES OUT.

ACT II

RYDER

All right, Amanda, we're back. Now, you were saying, the black door is following you?

AMANDA

I see it everywhere. Most places I go - the same door is... there.

RYDER

How do you know it's the same door? What does it look like? I mean, other than being black.

AMANDA

The doorknob's a dull, unassuming brass, I guess? The rest... The door itself it isn't wood or metal painted black. I don't know what it is, but it's darker. Like...

A beat.

AMANDA

Like the center of a black hole. Like the color of absence. It hurts to stare at. I could feel a strain in my eyes... and my chest at the museum... Not just then - every time I look at it, really.

RYDER

The color of absence? That reminds me of the Nietzsche quote, paraphrasing but, "Fight not with monsters lest you become one. And gaze not into the abyss, for when you do the abyss gazes into you."

AMANDA

That's exactly how it feels - when you stare at it - this black void is staring right back into you. Feeling your insides.

RYDER

And this door, that's the color of absence, is following you?

AMANDA

The black door's everywhere. My apartment building, work, the grocery store. Everywhere. But never in the same spot. One day it'll be next to the copy machine at work, then down the hall of my apartment building. The door's always moving. But always near me. Like a shark circling its next victim.

A beat.

AMANDA

I've asked others if they see the door - most the time it disappears after I ask... but sometimes... Sometimes a co-worker or someone - I'll ask them - and they will see it. They'll stop and stare at it - into it. I'll have to shake them - Force them to look away. Then... I'll ask about the door again. And they all say me the same thing: Open the door.

A beat.

AMANDA

Everyone who's seen the door tells me I need to open it. After they say that - the door disappears, and they forget. The worst time... The worst time my best friend at work. We were in the break room, alone, during our lunch and it appeared. Unannounced. Unwelcome - like always. I pointed to it - hoping it'd just disappear and we could keep talking about whatever Netflix show she'd watched last night. I think that's what we were talking about. Only...

A beat.

Before I could lower my hand, she dug her nails into my wrist. Her eyes were locked on the door. Her nails pierced so far into me - I bled. Not a little either. Before I knew it, there was red everywhere. The table. The floor. Her. I couldn't get her nails out of me - or get her to look away. She's one of my closest friends - I was a bridesmaid at her wedding, and... I had to throw her against the ground. To get her to stop. To get her to look away and let go. After I did... she gently released me, put her bloody hands on my face, and told me to open the door.

RYDER

(empathetic)

That's terrible.

I'm sure it was traumatic to go through.

(back to business)

You haven't opened the door though, right?

AMANDA

No. No. I haven't.

A beat.

AMANDA

Not yet, anyway. I guess that's why I really called. What would happen if I did open it? What's behind it? At the very least, if I opened it, even just a crack, would - would it stop following me? Do you know, Doctor?

RYDER

Amanda, under no condition should you open the door. I'll be honest - I have no idea what's on the other side. I've never heard of anything like this before. But from everything you've said - I can't imagine it's anything good. You agree with that, right?

Dead air.

RYDER

Amanda?

AMANDA

(disappointed)

Yes - I mean, I guess I do.

A beat.

AMANDA

I was really hoping you could help me, Doctor.

RYDER

Amanda, I can help. But you need to give me time to research. Promise me you won't open the door - won't touch it - won't go near it. We need to figure out what it is.

AMANDA

Yes. Yes I promise not to open the black door.

A beat.

AMANDA

For now.

Her phone disconnects.

RYDER

Amanda?

A beat.

RYDER

I believe she hung up. Well if you're still listening, Amanda. Stay strong. I'll get back to you as soon as I can. But that's all the time we have for now. Remember - if you are bothered by anything supernatural or unexplainable - please give me a call - next time on A Voice From Darkness.

OUTRO MUSIC

#creepypasta #nosleep #audiodrama #audiofiction #horror #dark fantasy #audio drama #audio fiction #podcast #avfd #transcript

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theonyxpath · 6 years ago

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Here’s our Onyx Path gang, minus yours truly as I took the pic, at Mader’s, the enduring German cuisine restaurant in Milwaukee, where we had our Onyx Path Summit dinner after seven hours of Summitting. So if our heroes look a bit beat, well, seven hours of meeting after most of us flew in that morning, and then some imported beer, will start to tell.

Beat, but happy.

Matthew sits in Mader’s Big Giant Chair for the first time!

Even though, right now, we’re all a bit beat and cranky and some of us are sick since we went from the Summit to the con to flying home. Our Monday Meeting was a bit disjointed accordingly, so I’m just going to give ya’ll a run through of the highlights of the Summit and the MidWinter Convention that followed.

Wednesday was the Onyx Path Summit, and we started off with a person by person review of last year. Where did they see Onyx Path? Sometimes that was TTRPG industry-oriented, sometimes creatively, sometimes where we are in the eyes of our fan community.

My piece of that was to let our folks know, as best as we can tell before all the numbers are crunched for taxes in April, where the company stands financially. In general, I can share here that we are doing well, much better than last year, and we remain in the black every year since we started.

Which means we made a “profit” although our accountants might phrase it differently. Each year we decide where to use that profit, and we’re really careful because we’re not talking millions here. The year we had the booth backdrop and signs made, those were the expenses our profits covered.

This year, we’re going to put it towards staff raises, crew bonuses, and raising our freelancer pay scales again.

Eddy Webb prepares to surprise his TC: Aberrant demo players with a startling plot development.

Then, we were run through a team analysis exercise that Matthew pulled from his past experience as a corporate trainer. Like many of these sorts of things, we wound up divided into some amount of four types of employees.

Matthew’s title for this was “Know Your Role!”, obligatory wrestling reference, and it was a useful way to take a look at how we relate to each other and a nice break from the nitty-gritty of running Onyx.

But back we went anyway, and the rest of our day was determining where we are aiming in 2019. Internally, we intend to continue the refining of our processes, with the extra challenge of adapting to getting more books into retail stores via our friends at Studio2 and IPR.

Many of our projects that have been running very late took gigantic leaps forward in 2018, while we delivered early, sometimes months early, on our newer Kickstarter projects. We want and expect that to continue through 2019.

Elements of the Trinity Continuum: Aberrant playtest.

Externally, we are aiming towards Visibility. Again, something we already started with the Onyx Pathcast, getting projects into stores and other venues, and supporting the many Actual Play and other online media projects highlighting our stuff in 2018.

For 2019, we are looking for more ways to spread the word about our game lines, our worlds, and certainly we have started with a bang with Matthew’s addition of The Gentleman Gamer to our social media. Expect to see much more as the year progresses.

Much in the way of both strategies and tactics were discussed, and many excellent ideas have been logged for use this year. But the amazing and gratifying thing was how while our ideas were really all over the place, their intent was consistently on the same target.

From a group with such a wide range of experience, this was a joy to hear.

Dixie about to make a point during the Onyx Q&A

Thursday, Dixie, Eddy, Matthew, and I, recorded the Onyx Pathcast for the next day. “Live” from MidWinter, as it were. You can find it here, on PodBean as always, or at your favorite podcast venue: https://onyxpathcast.podbean.com/e/episode-34-liveish-from-midwinter/

We wanted to chat about the con, of course, but also to use the venue to announce the projects we were going to announce at the Onyx Path Q&A Thursday afternoon. We wanted our community to know what we announced there, but a day later so that the info went out but the folks who took the time to sign up for the Q&A heard it first.

First, we have a project we have added a lot of blood to in our various notes to each other: V5 (blood) Cults of (blood for) the Blood Gods (of blood)! V5 Cults of the Blood Gods.Yes, we follow up V5 Chicago By Night with a book detailing the Hecate including Clan Giovanni, the various religions that have sprung out of vampire culture like the Church of Caine, and much more!

Next, although some people may have already been aware, we still wanted to include announcing that Scion: Demigod is currently being written, as a lot of people assumed that it was coming and we want to be sure everybody knows it’s on the project progress list now.

Scion: Demigod will not only provide more Pantheons and the expected continuing advancement of characters through the Demigod range of abilities, but it will also provide new rules that enhance and focus on the changes that are occurring to a character as a Demigod.

Since Scion: Demigod continues what we could call the core Scion game experience, we also announced two projects that expand on just what Scion can be.

I’ve been talking about Scion’s potential in these blogs and elsewhere pretty much from the point that we announced we were doing a new edition, and what I’ve been describing as a solid core Scion game experience are the four core Scion books, Origin through God, and the supplements directly linked to them.

Then, there’s the projects that add and expand the options and the range of what it is to play Scion. These are projects that investigate different ways to engage with the game.

Mighty Matt McElroy ponders a deep Q&A question deeply.

First, there’s what we’re currently calling Scion: Dragon, which adds another “faction” to the ongoing struggle between the Titans and the Gods. They represent the seemingly ever-present myths in so many cultures of serpents and snake people, wyrms and dragons, and the idea that all of these creatures and possibly even those who are counted in various Pantheons, have their own secret agendas.

Scion: Dragon is being developed by the talented and dangerous Danielle Lauzon.

Bear in mind with both of these new Scion books that we have not even started the actual writing of the text for them yet, so anything I share here is pretty darn general and may be tweaked completely before that writing is finished.

Mike Hollywood gets the good dogs and excellent cats playing Pugmire together!

Second, we have what we’re currently calling Scion: Masks of the Mythos, which takes the Eldritch beings of the Cthulhu Mythos and tackles how to deal with them, and the baggage they bring, as a Scion game.

Harlem Unbound creator Chris Spivey is our developer for Scion: Masks of the Mythos, and we’re really looking forward to his take on such aspects as Mythos Cults and Lovecraft Country

We’ll certainly be talking more about all of these projects as things continue to develop with them!

Thursday was also the day MidWinter was running an industry professionals track and Eddy had his Developers’ Bootcamp to run, while the rest of us sat in on games, set up the booth, or had sit-downs with folk. I hear it went well, and that led to our Onyx Path Q&A later that afternoon.

Eddy’s Developer Bootcamp project flowchart

For years, we did this as a standard panel in a room full of chairs sort of thing, but lately we’ve adopted a smaller venue fitting maybe a dozen to twenty people and we have snacks and drinks in a wood paneled conference room.

Which we find lends itself to more open discussion and actual conversations. This year was no different, although we still have some rough edges to smooth down with such things as who talks when, the folks there certainly got a taste of the creative jabbering we can do when we’re all together.

A LOT of questions were answered, I hope satisfactorily, and calling it a live-action AMA would not be too far off-base.

Our Onyx Path Q&A session in the dramatic Founder’s Room.

This pretty much takes us into the full con experience days, where we had a ton of gaming sessions thanks to the Wrecking Crew led by Scott Vigil, plus individual game demos run by our creators – from Pugmire and Mau, to They Came From Beneath the Sea!, V5 Chicago By Night, and a very special playtest demo for Trinity Continuum: Aberrant.

There was also the premiere of a playtest of a Scion LARP written and created by Dystopia Rising creator Michael Pucci that gave us lots of ideas for how to bring that Scion thing to live-action.

And so, as we Onyx Path folk left Milwaukee in stages through the weekend, we bid a fond farewell to another successful MidWinter convention, and a fantastic and energizing Onyx Path Summit. Seems like we all left ready to work on:

Many Worlds, One Path!

BLURBS!

KICKSTARTER:

They Came From Beneath the Sea! (TCFBtS!) has a little more than a week to go and we’ve passed through the first couple of Stretch Goals including getting Larry Blamire to illustrate a horizontal scene usable on a screen, two entries for a book of additional soggy Threats, a T-Shirt, two added Adventure Scenarios, and we are rising up on the next goal!

TCFBtS! has some very different additions to the Storypath mechanics we’ll be explaining during the KS that take an excellent 50’s action and investigation genre game and turn it to 11! You can see the actual play here:

Check out the teaser:https://youtu.be/kxLydk4t76s

Hope to see you there back in the 50’s, fighting watery menaces and cracking wise!

ONYX PATH MEDIA

Illustration by Michael Gaydos

This Friday’s Onyx Pathcast is a breakdown of our terrific triad’s experiences during the Mid Winter Convention. The panels, the demo games, etc.!

http://bit.ly/2QLulAJ

And Here’s More Media About Our Worlds:

On our channel Matthew Dawkins is recapping his campaign of Scion that he’s named “Tokyo Noir”. It sounds like a lot of grisly fun and mixes the children of Bishamon, Kissh?ten, and Loki in a murder mystery. Matthew is involving viewers in deciding the direction of the game, so get in early with your suggestions! https://youtu.be/cKpHy3W4Z-E

YouTuber Stuart Armstrong has put together an interesting video on crossing over They Came from Beneath the Sea! with the World of Darkness! Check it out and give his channel a subscription: https://youtu.be/2wBFny9mSng

One of our forumites, Cinder, has started a written recap of their campaign of They Came from Beneath the Sea! It’s in its early stages right now, but you can subscribe to the thread for updates: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/cavaliers-of-mars-and-pugmire/1278691-explorers-of-the-fathoms-tcfbts-actual-play

The Story Told RPG Podcast interviewed Matthew Dawkins regarding They Came from Beneath the Sea! and his fun, informative interview can be found here for all interested listeners: http://thestorytold.libsyn.com/bonus-episode-4-they-came-from-beneath-the-sea-with-matthew-dawkins

The Twin Cities by Night Crew have a Scion 2nd Edition three part series that will be released this week.

The murder of a Scion of Ra halts the progress of the sun across the sky. In response a group of strangers are unknowingly brought together by their divine heritage to investigate the crime.

ELECTRONIC GAMING:

As we find ways to enable our community to more easily play our games, the Onyx Dice Rolling App is now live! Our dev team has been doing updates since we launched based on the excellent use-case comments by our community, and this thing is both rolling and rocking!

ON AMAZON AND BARNES & NOBLE:

You can now read our fiction from the comfort and convenience of your Kindle (from Amazon) and Nook (from Barnes & Noble).

If you enjoy these or any other of our books, please help us by writing reviews on the site of the sales venue you bought it from. Reviews really, really help us with getting folks interested in our amazing fiction!

Our selection includes these fiction books:

OUR SALES PARTNERS:

We’re working with Studio2 to get Pugmire out into stores, as well as to individuals through their online store. You can pick up the traditionally printed main book, the Screen, and the official Pugmire dice through our friends there! http://bit.ly/2w0aaEW

And we’ve added Prince’s Gambit to our Studio2 catalog: https://studio2publishing.com/products/prince-s-gambit-card-game

Looking for our Deluxe or Prestige Edition books? Try this link! http://www.indiepressrevolution.com/xcart/Onyx-Path-Publishing/

Here’s the link to the press release we put out about how Onyx Path is now selling through Indie Press Revolution: http://theonyxpath.com/press-release-onyx-path-limited-editions-now-available-through-indie-press-revolution/

And you can now order Pugmire: the book, the screen, and the dice! http://www.indiepressrevolution.com/xcart/manufacturers.php?manufacturerid=296

DRIVETHRURPG.COM:

This week, we’re offering PDF and PoD versions of the Changeling: The Lost 2nd Edition on DTRPG and the traditionally printed version will be opened up for ordering via stores!

CONVENTIONS

New convention notices coming soon!

And now, the new project status updates!

DEVELOPMENT STATUS FROM FAST EDDY WEBB (projects in bold have changed status since last week):

First Draft (The first phase of a project that is about the work being done by writers, not dev prep)

M20 The Technocracy Reloaded (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)

M20 Victorian Mage (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)

City of the Towered Tombs (Cavaliers of Mars)

Mummy: The Curse 2nd Edition core rulebook (Mummy: The Curse 2nd Edition)

Geist2e Fiction Anthology (Geist: The Sin-Eaters 2nd Edition)

Pirates of Pugmire (Realms of Pugmire)

Distant Worlds (Trinity Continuum: Aeon)

Dragon-Blooded Novella #1 (Exalted 3rd Edition)

Across the Eight Directions (Exalted 3rd Edition)

Exalted Essay Collection (Exalted)

Legendlore core book (Legendlore)

Creatures of the World Bestiary (Scion 2nd Edition)

Chicago Folio/Dossier (Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition)

Let The Streets Run Red (Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition)

Kith and Kin (Changeling: The Lost 2e)

Scion: Demigod (Scion 2nd Edition)

TC: Aeon Ready Made Characters (Trinity Continuum: Aeon)

Redlines

Scion Companion: Mysteries of the World (Scion 2nd Edition)

Memento Mori: the GtSE 2e Companion (Geist: The Sin-Eaters 2nd Edition)

C20 Novel: Cup of Dreams (Changeling: the Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition)

Second Draft

Tales of Good Dogs – Pugmire Fiction Anthology (Pugmire)

Heirs to the Shogunate (Exalted 3rd Edition)

Scion Ready Made Characters (Scion 2nd Edition)

Witch-Queen of the Shadowed Citadel (Cavaliers of Mars)

Deviant: The Renegades (Deviant: The Renegades)

Development

Hunter: the Vigil 2e core (Hunter: the Vigil 2nd Edition)

CofD Contagion Chronicle (Chronicles of Darkness)

Lunars: Fangs at the Gate (Exalted 3rd Edition)

WoD Ghost Hunters (World of Darkness)

Oak, Ash, and Thorn: Changeling: The Lost 2nd Companion (Changeling: The Lost 2nd)

CofD Dark Eras 2 (Chronicles of Darkness)

Night Horrors: Nameless and Accursed (Mage: the Awakening Second Edition)

Manuscript Approval:

Wr20 Book of Oblivion (Wraith: The Oblivion 20th Anniversary Edition)

Trinity Continuum: Aberrant core (Trinity Continuum: Aberrant)

Scion Jumpstart (Scion 2nd Edition)

Editing:

Aeon Aexpansion (Trinity Continuum: Aeon)

Dystopia Rising: Evolution (Dystopia Rising: Evolution)

M20 Book of the Fallen (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)

In Media Res (Trinity Continuum: Core)

Tales of Excellent Cats (Monarchies of Mau)

V5 Chicago By Night (Vampire: The Masquerade)

V5 Chicago By Night Screen (Vampire: The Masquerade)

Spilled Blood (Vampire: The Requiem 2nd Edition)

Post-Editing Development:

C20 Players’ Guide (Changeling: the Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition)

Signs of Sorcery (Mage: the Awakening Second Edition)

Night Horrors: Shunned by the Moon (Werewolf: The Forsaken 2nd Edition)

Adventures for Curious Cats (Monarchies of Mau)

Indexing:

Scion Origin (Scion Second Edition)

Scion Hero (Scion Second Edition)

ART DIRECTION FROM MIRTHFUL MIKE:

In Art Direction

Dystopia Rising: Evolution – Bunch of art out for approvals – some corrections being made.

The Realm – Contracted.

Ex3 Monthly Stuff –

Chicago By Night – Rolling on contracting next bits.

C20 Player’s Guide – Getting more art coming in and going to WW for approval.

Aeon Aexpansion – Going over the notes.

They Came From Beneath the Sea! – KS rolling.

EX3 Lunars – Updated KS finals are in.

Signs of Sorcery – One more piece and then over to layout.

In Media Res – Contracted.

Hunter: The Vigil 2 – KS art in progress.

Shunned By the Moon – Got the notes, contacting artists.

Book of Oblivion – Contracting.

Marketing Stuff

In Layout

Geist 2e

Proofing

Scion Hero – Indexing.

Scion Origin – Indexing.

M20: Gods and Monsters

Pugmire Roll of Good Dogs and Cats

Trinity Core – Errata closed.

Trinity Aeon – Errata closed.

Ex3 Dragon Blooded – inputting errata.

CtL2e Condition Cards – Sending to WW for approval.

Ex Novel 2 (Aaron Rosenberg)

At Press

Wraith 20th – Preparing to ship to fulfillment shipper.

Wraith 20 Screen – Preparing to ship to fulfillment shipper.

Scion Dice – At Studio2.

Scion Screen – At Studio2.

Changeling: The Lost 2e – PDF and PoD versions on sale at DTRPG, physical books able to be ordered in stores, on Wednesday.

CtL2 Jumpstart – PoD proof ordered.

Fetch Quest – Manufacturing finishing.

TODAY’S REASON TO CELEBRATE:

Post Onyx Path Summit: Forward Into 2019!

#Onyx Path Publishing

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cyanmnemosyne · 6 years ago

Text

Yuletide Letter (2018)

Dear Yuletide Writer,

First of all, thank you for taking the time to write me a fic! These last few years I've been increasingly drawn to tiny fandoms, so I always look forward to this opportunity to share the love with other people who love them too. :D

I've tried to provide some commentary below for each of my requested fandoms, in case it's useful to you, but ultimately Optional Details Are Optional, and I'm sure I'll enjoy what you come up with regardless of if your heart takes you in a different direction. :)

AO3 name: darkcyan

Requested fandoms:

Star Ocean: Till the End of Time

Suisei no Gargantia | Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet

Ghostverse - Alex Yuschik (Podcast)

Foundryside - Robert Jackson Bennett

[ hiding the rest under the cut, because I tend to write a lot XD ]

General Preferences:

I have no preferences regarding length, tense, or POV; feel free to do whatever seems right for the story.

Stories with emotional warmth are my jam: fluff, found family, battle couples. People learning to trust / coming to love each other, and people for whom their mutual love and/or trust is already their bedrock. I don't need the entire story to be lighthearted from start to finish, but the stories I love most are the ones where even if the characters have been through Some Shit in the course of the story, by the end they're in as good or better a place than when they started.

If you feel like doing an AU, go for it! :D I like it best when the characters feel "true" to their canon personalities, as filtered and changed through the different lens of how the AU differs from canon. I do have a slight preference for AUs that provide opportunities for interesting worldbuilding (e.g. scifi AU) than the more-typical coffeeshop/college AU.

In general, if you're the sort to enjoy doing a deep dive into worldbuilding (AU or canon), I'm happy to come along for that ride, too. :D

Time travel fic is one of my guilty pleasures. XD I have no need for the exact mechanics to be explained; going down the canon-divergence-with-foreknowledge path is completely OK with me. :D

I love it when female characters are their awesome selves

This is not an exhaustive list, so if you don't see something in my DNW list, you're welcome to either send me an anon ask or just assume it's fine. :D

DNW:

Onscreen sex. Fade to black or references to it happening offscreen are fine if you feel it’s important to the story, but if we’ve gotten to the point where we’re talking about limb positions, my reaction is almost certain to be somewhere between bored and extremely uncomfortable.

Even if it’s not explicit or onscreen, please no rape / noncon / dubcon.

I’m not a huge fan of drug / addiction plots either

Relationships, romantic or otherwise, where there’s a significant power imbalance (especially if it’s abused) tend to really bother me.

I also feel pretty strongly about free will and freedom to choose, so “I’m taking away your choices by hiding things from you / doing things behind your back For Your Own Good” narratives mostly just make me want to punch things, no matter how good the supposed justification is on the part of the person doing it.

Cheating and other forms of deliberate, sustained dishonesty within a relationship. Poly relationships are completely fine :D all that I ask is that all people involved are as aware of who else is involved / what else is going on as they want to be.

Gratuitous drama. If a misunderstanding could be resolved by the characters just sitting down for five minutes and talking to each other, and the only reason they don’t is ~*~reasons~*~, then I start getting really annoyed, really quickly

Character bashing. Even the characters I personally dislike are the heroes of their own stories.

If I wanted to hear about awful people being awful all the time and how awful everything is as a result, I’d go watch the news. (… Someday I would like this statement to be less true than it was the previous year, instead of more. ;___;) There can be awful people, they can do awful things, but I’d really prefer they not be either the majority or the focus of the story.

Fandoms:

Star Ocean: Till the End of Time

Requested character(s): Nel Zelpher, Clair Lasbard

Spoiler notes: I’ve played the game. (I'm also about halfway through the manga, but so far not super impressed by its characterization of Nel, so feel free to ignore it completely. :) )

Preferred pairings: Nel/Clair or gen

So, Nel was my official first ever video game crush. This was a bit difficult for me to explain to my young, theoretically-straight self at the time, but she was so cool that I didn’t bother to think about it too hard.

When we are introduced to Clair as her partner, and every single scene in which the two appear makes it clear how strong their bond is – it was a foregone conclusion that I would start to ship them as well. And Adray’s obnoxious insistence on trying to find a husband for Clair just made me even more determined to headcanon them as lovers (or at the very least secretly pining for each other) in addition to partners.

If you don’t ship them romantically, but just think they’re great platonic partners, I’m sure I’ll still enjoy it whatever you come up with. But in case there’s any doubt, I also very much ship them. :D <3

And whether they're romantically involved or not, I love their dynamic – these two strong-willed, intelligent, fiercely competent women, working towards a shared goal that they both believe is more important than themselves. I love how deep and unshakeable their trust is – and how even though it clearly tears Clair apart to send Nel out into a situation that they both know may not be survivable, she’ll do it anyway. And Nel will go.

I don’t have any specific prompts in mind – if you want to write about a mission Clair has to send Nel off on, and the tension between their fear for and their trust in each other (and the knowledge hanging over both of them that they’re doing something that they see as more important than them both), great! Want to just do fluffy interactions during a brief break from the action (do they get vacation? How many people do they have to bribe to get vacation at the same time?), or after the war is done and things are a bit more settled, go for it.

In the narrative path where Nel goes with the party into space, does she think of Clair and all the stories she’s going to tell once she gets back (if she gets back)? What does Clair think, being left so much farther behind this time than any other time before? What stories does Nel tell when they’re reunited?

Got an idea that’s burning in your mind and has nothing to do with any of these? I’m sure I’ll enjoy whatever you come up with. :)

Suisei no Gargantia | Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet

Requested character(s): Ridget, Bellows

Spoiler notes: I’ve watched the show, the OVAs, and the movie.

Preferred pairings: Ridget/Bellows or gen

I came to this show because I was in the mood for mecha anime, then stayed because I fell in love with the cinnamon roll main character, his slice of life struggles to find his place, and the interesting worldbuilding.

… And the badass-with-a-mile-wide-streak-of-imposter-syndrome Fleet Commander and her best friend (or more?), the irreverent excavation team head.

Ridget and Bellows don’t interact a whole lot over the course of the show, but every moment counts and it is clear even in those moments how deep their respect and appreciation for each other goes.

Talk to me about Ridget, who’s so afraid to mess everything up but determined to shoulder the responsibility anyway.

Talk to me about Bellows, who is one of the most effortlessly competent people on the ship and has a warm heart to match.

I’d love to see a story about the two of them and about how much they mean to each other, or a situation where one or both of them are supporting each other. Anywhere in the timeline is fine with me. :D

(For the record: I ship these two characters, like, a lot. But if you don’t, know that I’d still love to see a story about their entirely platonic friendship. <3)

The other characters are more than welcome to show up, too. :)

Ghostverse - Alex Yuschik (Podcast)

Requested character(s): Five, Hyeon

Spoiler notes: I've listened to the story

Preferred pairings: Five/Hyeon or gen

I stumbled across this story earlier this year, and my heart was immediately stolen by how elegantly it portrays a very interesting science fiction / fantastical world and the growing friendship of these two characters, through nothing more than a series of texts between the two.

So really, what I'd like from this prompt is more of the same. :) Do you want to explore this fascinating world, where giant mecha run by chronically sleep-deprived pilots are the only thing that stands between what's left of the world and destruction by the ravaging of (I would assume) equally giant ghosts? I'll happily read any of it.

Or dig deeper into these two characters: Hyeon, who feels so constricted by his lot in life, but still tries his best to live up to it (modulo some text complaints, because really, who wouldn't?). Five, who's driven to not only pilot a mecha, but to be one of the best; who has turned his inner grief and darkness into a sword that he uses to stand between the ghosts and others, that they not suffer as he has.

I'm most interested in what might happen after the story ends: now that Five and Hyeon have met face-to-face, what happens next? Does it change their relationship at all? What does Seven Sparrows Sleeping look like in the aftermath of that last attack, and does that affect Hyeon at all?

But honestly: whatever story you give me, I'm sure I'll love.

As usual, while I do ship these two characters, I'd also be happy to see a story where their relationship remains platonic.

And while it would be fun to see a story told solely through texts, in the mode of canon, please do not feel like that's a requirement - I'd be just as happy to see a story that uses a more standard prose format. :)

Foundryside - Robert Jackson Bennett

Requested character(s): Berenice Grimaldi

Spoiler notes: I've read the book

Preferred pairings: Berenice/Sancia if during/after the book; gen otherwise

I read this book recently, after hearing rave reviews, and while it took a while to get going for me, I ended up really enjoying it: both the characters introduced, and the world they inhabit. Alas, that last I heard book 2 doesn’t even have a release year yet. 😭

And perhaps my favorite was Berenice, Orso's quieter, blazingly competent counterpart. (And, in fact, one of the biggest contributors to my eventually liking Orso as well was the fact that he clearly understood and respected just how competent Berenice is; that their partnership was a partnership, as much as it initially looked like he was just peremtorily ordering her around.)

I'd love to see more stories about Berenice -- how did she start out? What was working with Orso like when they first started working together, and how many times did she have to put her foot down before he started listening to her and treating her as an equal?

What was she thinking and doing, in the parts of the book where she's not on-screen or not the POV character?

Or, if you feel like speculating -- what does she think of Orso's new merchant house (aside from "nice job rules-lawyering yourself out of getting brutally killed 👍"), and what is she doing to help make it a success? Is she taking on a teaching role with all the new scrivers he's brought in, or learning from them? Has she found any other people with talents like hers to train as well?

The bits and pieces of Berenice/Sancia we got during the book were quite cute -- I especially like the scene where Orso's trying to give her romantic advice and she's like "lol I'm way ahead of you" -- so if you'd like to explore more of their relationship, I'd love to see more of that as well! Is Sancia still touch-shy? How do they negotiate that? Alternately, now that she's gotten this ridiculous powerup with no real downsides (at least, none we've seen yet), how does that affect how she interacts with the world and with Berenice?

Given that their relationship seems to be pretty much canon at this point, if you include Sancia in the story I'd prefer that the story acknowledge that. But, is probably obvious from all the above commentary, if you'd rather <i>not</i> focus on their relationship, that's 100% fine with me, too -- the main thing I want is more of Berenice being her awesome self. :)

Note also that I find the magic system rather fascinating, and as a programmer myself am amused by how it "feels like" programming. So if you'd like to dig into the magic system and play around with it some more, I would absolutely be on board with that, too. :D

... And that's it!

I hope this letter has been of help, and am thoroughly looking forward to seeing what you come up with. :D

#dear creator letter #yuletide #yuletide 2018

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wineanddinosaur · 3 years ago

Text

Next Round: How Caffe Dante Went From Neighborhood Coffee Shop to ‘World’s Best Bar’

When Linden Pride took over ownership of New York City’s Caffe Dante in 2015, he inherited its rich history, too. Dante opened in 1915 as a small coffee shop in the West Village and quickly became a beloved spot among locals. Over a century later, the 900-square-foot café is still serving up coffee, but has also gained global accolades for its cocktails — including a 2019 distinction as “World’s Best Bar.”

In this “Next Round” episode, Pride chats with host Zach Geballe about what brought him to New York from Australia, how the historic Italian café came into his ownership, and how the pandemic helped Dante define itself as a brand. Part of the key to Pride’s success? Doing classic cocktails really, really well.

Tune in and learn more about Caffe Dante at https://www.dante-nyc.com/.

LISTEN ONLINE

Listen on Apple Podcasts

Listen on Spotify

OR CHECK OUT THE CONVERSATION HERE

Zach Geballe: From Seattle, Washington, I’m Zach Geballe, and this is a “VinePair Podcast Next Round” conversation. We’re bringing you these episodes so that we can explore a wider range of issues and stories in the drinks world. Today, I have the privilege of speaking with Linden Pride, who is the co-owner of the world-renowned bar, Caffe Dante, in New York City. Linden, thanks so much for your time.

Linden Pride: Zach, great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Z: Yeah, my pleasure. As I was mentioning to you before we started recording, this is very fun for me because Caffe Dante was one of my favorite haunts when I was an NYU student back in the aughts. It’s so cool that it’s become this whole other animal now. The coffee’s still good, by the way. Last time I was there, I had an espresso as well. But now, onto this cocktail bar. Tell me, first and foremost, what’s your background like and what were you doing before you wound up in New York City?

L: To your point about the history that you had with Caffe Dante previously, we still have people walking in off the street every week, telling us stories about when they used to visit Caffe Dante. I have to say, taking over the ownership of such a public institution comes with a great deal of responsibility in ways that were totally unexpected. I’m looking forward to talking a little bit more about that, but I love to hear that it was a haunt that you used to enjoy, yourself.

Z: I have to ask, since you brought this up, do you get people who come in who have no idea that it’s a cocktail bar?

L: Oh, yes, absolutely. We have people come in and say, “I’ve been coming here for 30 years and it’s not quite as I remember it.” Or, they’ll come in and say, “I’ve been coming here for 30 years, and nothing’s changed.” I think to myself, we’ve been here for seven years and I don’t remember seeing you once. It certainly holds a very important piece of culinary or gastronomic nostalgia for people in the village. We feel very privileged to be a part of that long story. I grew up in Australia. My mom is a chef and a food writer. I was always kind of in the hospitality industry. I think this is unknown to a lot of people in the States, but Australia has a very rich Italian and Greek culinary culture. We had a lot of Italian and Greek expats move to Australia post World War II. With them, they hung on to the traditions of great coffee and wonderful seasonal produce and food. Growing up in Australia, on every other corner there was a deli with cold cuts and so forth. Italian coffee shops and great little trattorias were very much a part of life as we grew up in Australia. I’ve been working in restaurants from the age of 17. I started with a chef in Australia who has a wonderful restaurant group. It was always a dream of mine to be able to travel to and eventually work in New York. I always saw New York as the mecca of the restaurant world. I think a lot of that had to do with a lot of these wonderful, old institutions. They were almost like living history and were so inspiring. In Australia, sometimes things feel a little bit new and without that great history. New York was always on a pedestal for us. Finding our way here was somewhat inevitable, I think.

Z: Gotcha. So, how do you view Caffe Dante at this moment? How do you describe it? What is it? Was that the idea all along when you came to New York? Or, did that idea come to you at some point after arriving?

L: The way that I would describe Caffe Dante is that it’s an all-day, all-occasion café, bar, and eatery. We open every morning for breakfast and coffee. We trade all the way through the lunch and aperitivo hours into dinner and late night. We’re open 14 hours a day, every day of the year. It’s an amenity to the community. People are able to fall in and grab a coffee or sit down and have a three-course meal or grab a cocktail. We certainly view it as an all-day, all-occasion venue. I’ve been bartending since I first got into restaurants. Initially, I wanted to be a chef, but I was talked down from that promptly, which I’m grateful for.

Z: Probably for your own good.

L: I found it a lot more fun in the bar, where I could explore, have fun with great cocktails, and be a lot more social. Bartending and bars always came naturally to me because it was what I’d focused on and how I got my apprenticeship in hospitality. When I came to New York, I moved here initially to work with a design and conceptual agency called AvroKO. They did a lot of hospitality design, but also concept development, and so on and so forth. I spent nearly five years with them in New York, and I learned a lot about sides of the business that I didn’t understand and hadn’t learned in Australia, which was largely the design and conceptual side of things. My wife had moved to New York at the time. She had been supporting me from Australia because, when I first moved here, I couldn’t afford to pay my rent. I’m grateful that she was supporting me, but by the time she got here, she said, ‘You’re never around, you’re always traveling, you’re always working, and if you want me to stick around, we need to do something together because there’s no other way to get your attention at the moment.” We decided that we wanted to open our own space. At the time, we were looking at a few other different venues in this area, in the West Village. One of them was a space on Grove Street. We got to a final negotiating point with the then-owner, and at the last minute, he said to me something along the lines of, “I’m not going to pay the brokers, so, just fold that into your costs.” That basically put the price that we had agreed upon up by about 20 percent. I said, this is ridiculous. I was still learning my way around things at that point. The next day, he signed the space to someone else and she opened a wonderful restaurant, Via Carota, in that space. But, it shifted our focus. We were approached with an off-market deal for Caffe Dante. It had been in the Flotta family for the better part of 40 years. The father, who was very much a hospitality man, ran it. He was in his 80s and he’d handed it to his son. His son had run it into the ground, somewhat. He’d made it into an internet café and all sorts of strange things. Mario Sr. had said to us, I want Caffe Dante to live on, but I don’t want my son to run it, and I’m not interested in doing it anymore. Magnolia Bakery, at the time, was banging on the door and trying to put a cupcake store in there. We said that we would love to retain the name. I think it was a blessing that we missed out on the space on Grove Street, because we’re now able to channel something that we’d really grown up around, which is this Italian all-day café. We channeled it into a space that represented something far greater than we felt that we could create in five, 10, 15 years, which was this historical, legendary coffee shop.

Z: Caffe Dante goes back over 100 years, right? To sometime in the 1910s?

L: 1915. That area is fascinating. It was known as South Village. Little Italy and the South Village were on either side of SoHo, which was the industrial production of the garment district. Italian migrants used to live in this area, the South Village. It was always very strongly Italian, especially around that period, around the turn of the century into the early 1900s. To the point that we spoke about before, a lot of those people who come in and share stories with us have so many wonderful stories about the old Italian ways. There’s a table in the window, which we call table 20. It was the widow’s table, and everyday at 4 p.m., a group of women would come and have coffee. It was always reserved for them. There was always a big game of poker that was played downstairs in the basement. We converted it to our walk-in. But, to this day, it’s got this huge steel door and very heavy bracing that you wouldn’t otherwise need to store paper straws and things. During the renovation, when we demolished one of the walls, I found a stack of five packets of bullets in the wall.

Z: Wow.

L: There are all sorts of wonderful old things going on.

Z: I want to ask a question about operations that I find really fascinating. You mentioned that you are not just a cocktail bar. You do breakfast, lunch, and dinner services. You’re open for very long hours. It’s maybe not completely unique among some of the great cocktail bars in the world, but it’s definitely unusual for what we think of as an evening and late-night establishment. I find it impressive that you’re able to have an operation that includes all of these services that aren’t necessarily connected all that often to cocktails. That said, presumably, people walk in at any time of day and assume, since this is one of the greatest cocktail bars in the world, they can get a great cocktail at 10 a.m., 10 p.m., or anywhere in between. How do you handle that from an operation standpoint as opposed to a lot of great cocktail bars that probably don’t open until 5 or 6 p.m. in many cases.

L: It’s a good question. It certainly wasn’t something that we were able to do right from the beginning. We really had to work at it. It was as Dante evolved. It’s a small space. It’s only 900 square feet, 55 seats. We were averaging around 550 to 600 covers a day, through 2019, pre-Covid. We had to be able to keep up with volume. We had to evolve the drinks menu because it had to be engineered in a way that could be based on speed and ease of replication. All our draft lines, except for two that have beer, have cocktails on them. We do a lot of cocktails on tap. There’s a lot of bottled cocktails that are batched, diluted, and frozen. Those obviously lend themselves to be able to get drinks out quickly. It also means that at any time during the day, when we’re busy enough, we’re able to sustain it. Somebody could jump behind the bar, make one of the drinks, and they would be perfectly served, consistent, and exactly as they always should be. That’s because we developed these systems that allowed us to keep up with the volume. A lot of work and time had gone into developing those processes. Also, our philosophy has always been: Whether we’re serving a cocktail, great coffee, or non-alcoholic tea, whatever it is, we really want to try to chase excellence in all of those fields. You see that in some of our regular customers who come in. We have a regular who comes in at 4 p.m., pretty much every day of the week, and has his cappuccino, biscotti, and so forth. He’s one of our great regulars, not just for the cocktails, but because we try to focus as much on all the beverages and items as much as each of the cocktails.

Z: Very cool. I want to talk a little bit about the cocktails, because for most of our listeners, that’s what they know you for. One thing that’s also interesting to me is, and I’ve experienced this when going to Caffe Dante a couple of years ago when I was last in New York, how much of the cocktail list seems really about what you might consider the perfect renditions of very established cocktails. Sometimes, people think about craft cocktail bars and talk about what they’ve created out of thin air. What cocktails have they invented? What I think of — and tell me if I’m on the right track or not — is that so much of what you guys do at Dante is perfection of established classics. Does that sound right?

L: Yeah. It’s funny. The phrase we use and what we always come back to is innovation through authenticity. We try to find ways of going back to the root, traditional service method, ingredient, or even ritual that surrounds some of these classic cocktails. We try to find ways that we can use better produce, a different technique, or more advanced technology to elevate what would otherwise be a classic cocktail that you can get anywhere. I think the Garibaldi is obviously a great example of that. That was inspired by, funny enough, an Italian restaurant in Australia where you’d walk off the beach on Bondi Beach and there was a place there called North Bondi Italian. You could still be dripping wet from the ocean, stand up at the bar, and order a Campari. There were just mountains of grapefruit and oranges behind the bar, and they’d squeeze it for you fresh. There was just something so tantalizing about the fresh orange with a bit of Campari and the saltwater in the ocean. We wanted to find a way to emulate that sensory moment around a drink that was a very simple classic cocktail that was probably better known as Campari and orange as opposed to the Garibaldi. That pursuit of finding the best way, glassware, and so forth to be able to present these drinks has always been at the core of the way that we develop the menu. The bartender who worked with us when we first opened, who I’d worked with previously, we spent a lot of time really pushing in those early months. We were asking, what will we be known for? We didn’t want to bring along anything that we’d done previously. We wanted to start fresh. A big thing that we used to talk about was about some of the world’s most famous brands. You might love the quality and splash out to buy a beautiful pair of Gucci shoes or one of the well-known brands. Now, there might also be a beautiful pair of black shoes that you love so much. Next season, you go back and don’t just buy the same pair of black shoes again. You want to see the same tailoring, the same innovation, the same attention to quality, but you want to see how they’ve evolved. That was our question. What are we doing that is interesting, but is still core to our beliefs of presenting classics and innovation through an authentic approach? It’s still really cool how we continue to evolve the brand now.

Z: I want to talk a little bit about the last couple of years for you guys. In 2019, you’re named the best bar in the world. That obviously is a big deal and very exciting. It probably made you happy and maybe also a little scared. I don’t know. That’s a lot of expectation. Is there anything you remember from the time when you found that out? Was it expected? Was it a surprise? How did that strike you?

L: It was an interesting year. We won Best American Restaurant Bar for Tales of the Cocktail. They take the finalists who win, out of the eight categories, then announce their World’s Best Bar out of those eight. We won that in July. That was unexpected. We literally fell off our seats. Tales of the Cocktail is a special industry accolade. That was astounding. We had to, immediately, really lift our game. People walk into any establishment with certain expectations, and it’s your job in hospitality to exceed those expectations. All of a sudden, the expectations got pushed. That presented challenges. In October, two and a half months later, it was the World’s 50 Best. We were No. 9 the year before. We got in the top 10 that October, and watched as the results kept getting closer to the top spot. We were all standing there with our arms around each other, embraced. It was incredible, and such a huge surprise and accolade. When I really distill down why Dante is held in such high regard by so many people to be able to win those two awards in the same year, I think it’s really about how people are made to feel when they walk into the space. It’s not necessarily just the drink in their hand. It’s a combination of the history of the space, the sense of hospitality, the service, and the drinks. It all comes together in a way that’s transportive. It takes you to a happy place. It was an amazing, incredible 2019 to come off those two awards. We were very excited to be building towards opening a second Dante in the West Village at the start of 2020. That was due to open around March 5. That didn’t happen. We were coming off such a high into such unknown territory. We could probably spend a whole podcast talking about the Covid process. But, I think Covid’s actually defined our brand, restaurant, bar, and program. It helped us define it so much better than we’d ever anticipated, because we had to strip back to basics and focus on what we were passionate about and stood for. It allowed us to grow in a very special way, without the mania and the frenzied reaction we had to have to winning those awards.

Z: Makes sense. Let’s talk a little bit about that challenge and growth. We’ve chronicled on this podcast the many, many different ways that people have gotten through this last year and a half. We can talk a little bit about this. What I’m mostly curious about is what you said. It’s this idea of redefining, or more finely defining, what Caffe Dante stands for and also, how you’ve started to come out on the other side. Correct me if I’m wrong on the details here, but you do now have a second location in Aspen, Colo., right? Was that always in the works? Did that timing get shifted around because of Covid? How have things transformed in the last year and a half?

L: The Aspen project was not planned. It came out of Covid. That’s the third location, actually — two in New York and one in Aspen. We announced to the staff on a Monday that we were going to close because of Covid. We reopened again on that Tuesday with to-go cocktails, because they changed the mandate in New York. For us, and with my wife and I especially, it just didn’t make sense for us to stop. First of all, employer-based health insurance is something that never really made sense to me.

Z: Sure.

L: During a pandemic, especially, we’re going to close our business and send all the staff out with no health insurance? It just didn’t feel right. We had an employee who was pregnant. Serving and looking after people is obviously at the core of what we do. We wanted to continue to help. That was our No. 1 goal coming into that Covid period. With that as our North Star, we were able to continue to evolve in what we were doing. We started supplying hospital meals to the local hospitals. We ended up doing about 500 meals a week. We did that for 15 weeks. There was also the development of the cocktail to-go programs, which then evolved into bottled cocktails. I’m fast forwarding through a lot of this, but the bottled cocktails helped us end up with Jean-Georges here in New York. He was in a similar position, but he wasn’t able to retain bartenders. He asked us to help develop bottled cocktails to sell in the restaurant so they could keep going. That landed us in a project in South Seaport called The Greens. They have outdoor, glass cabins through the winter during Covid. We were serving our bottled cocktails there. The innovation and the striving to stay open enabled us to be very creative. There were no limits. Interestingly enough, you spend your whole hospitality career thinking about, how do I lift the guest experience within these four walls? How do I make the music better? The lights better? The plates? The glassware? Then, all of a sudden, we had to ask ourselves, how do we create our experience entirely outside of the four walls? How does our brand travel? How does it end up in people’s homes? What’s that experience when they open the bottle in their house? What music are they listening to in their home? How do we connect to people outside of these walls? It totally changed the way that we thought about our business. That really was core to how we were able to not only stay relevant, but survive, then realize this opportunity with Jean-Georges, and then, ultimately, Aspen. You know, I remember talking to a journalist in June of last year who asked me this question: A lot of people are very interested in how to develop a bottled cocktail program and the strategy behind it. Could you provide some pointers, please? I remember saying, “OK, pretend that somebody takes away your business. Your landlord is still asking for the rent. You want to make sure your staff gets health care. You want to provide a home for your kids. That’s basically the motivation and the strategy. Do whatever the hell you can.”

Z: You mentioned that one of the things you had already realized, in terms of designing a program and a service that could work in the Caffe Dante space, was that what worked was a lot of pre-batched, bottled, draft cocktails. You were maybe more positioned than someone who had a great cocktail bar where everything was made to order and would have a harder time translating that. Does that sound right?

L: Yeah. Funny enough, our coffee cups for to-go coffee had a promotion for our Negronis. At the start, people were just coming in for coffees, and they didn’t know about our Negroni program. This was also 2015 and the Negroni didn’t quite have the same following that it does now. We put on the other side of the coffee cup, next time, join us for a Negroni. That was literally sitting on the counter when we were talking about how to do to-go cocktails. I was like, well, look at this. Let’s just serve the Negronis in this, what it was maybe always deemed to be in. Negroni in the coffee cup that says Negroni. We also had stickers left over from a Tales of the Cocktail activation that said “one for the road.” We stuck them on plastic cups. We certainly had collateral. Those were visually appealing things to be able to put on Instagram to get people to think, that’s fun and cool. Let’s go check it out. I would agree, we had a head start with some of the science behind making sure the dilution is perfect and the temperature’s right and so forth, in some of those more complex cocktails. We could produce them and get them out, to go, much more easily. It really came down to constantly trying to understand who our consumers were and what they were looking for.

Z: I’m sure you were also understanding that that was evolving over the period of the last year and a half. What people wanted in May, June, and July of 2020 is maybe not what they want this year.

L: Absolutely. Fascinatingly, it hit a pinnacle for us, with the evolution of these whole new service standards, when we came into the holiday season last year. We were able to sell bottled cocktails as gift packs for Christmas. It was fascinating. We turned into what I felt like was a scene out of “Breaking Bad,” with batches of cocktails and pouring them. It felt like a bootleg operation, because people were buying gift packs and all sorts of things. It was amazing to see how people had evolved and responded to that. Here we are now, in New York with no to-go cocktails, unfortunately. We still get many inquiries every week. It’s amazing how much that resonated with people when it was around. Very interesting.

Z: I want to hear a little bit more about the Aspen project, and then I may have one final question. That just recently came online, right?

L: Yeah. We opened at Christmas last year.

Z: What is it like? I’ve never been to Aspen, so you’ll have to help me understand.

L: The impetus for Aspen was, at Christmas time last year, that there was no indoor dining in New York. We had a pretty good summer and fall. We had a good team of staff and we realized that we were going to lose a lot of business, because who wants to sit on the sidewalk in New York in the middle of January? Some people did, bless them. Not a lot of people. A lot of smaller towns had taken off. People had moved out of the big cities. There was definitely a spike in places on Long Island and so forth, in terms of where consumers were. We thought Aspen and the mountains in winter would be a great place to be outdoors, safe, and healthy. If we could provide an amenity there, then it would be very appealing to send some of our staff out to work so that we didn’t lose them. And at that time the Surf Lodge and Snow Lodge owner approached us and said, look, we’re not going to go ahead with the project in Aspen this year because we can’t maintain it at 25 percent occupancy, but we do have this big outdoor deck. He thought, because we had bottled cocktails, it could really work. I headed out to Aspen. We said “yes” on a Monday and we were open on a Saturday. Bottled cocktails really could travel very easily. We opened with a big menu. The infrastructure and space was there, and we just went for it. We had a wonderful winter there. Even with no indoor dining, we were able to provide a great service to people who were safely living within the mountains outside of a big city. The winter was wonderful. We shut it down, as you do, coming into the spring. We reset for a summer program. We reopened in May for the summer season and moved down the street to the St. Regis, which has a place called the Chefs Club. It was a very different crowd, but there were, interestingly, a lot of people who we know from New York and supported us. We’re coming to the end of the summer season, which will culminate in the Food and Wine Festival in September, which we’re very excited about. The goal is, now, to repurpose and do winter 2.0 in Aspen with a full-service bar, not just the bottled cocktails. We’re excited for that.

Z: Gotcha. Very cool. Well, Linden, I really thank you so much for your time. It’s really fascinating to hear about the evolution of Caffe Dante, what you’ve been through, and what you see coming up in the future. So, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. I look forward to stopping in for coffee and a cocktail next time I’m in New York.

L: Thank you, Zach. Thank you so much for your time, and also for taking the time to speak to us. I really appreciate it.

Thanks so much for listening to the “VinePair Podcast.” If you love this show as much as we love making it, then please leave us a rating or review on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever it is you get your podcasts. It really helps everyone else discover the show.

Now for the credits. VinePair is produced and recorded in New York City and Seattle, Washington, by myself, Adam Teeter, and Zach Geballe, who does all the editing and loves to get the credit. Also, I would love to give a special shout-out to my VinePair co-founder, Josh Malin, for helping make all this possible, and also to Keith Beavers, who is VinePair’s tastings director, who is additionally a producer on the show. I also want to, of course, thank every other member of the VinePair team, who are instrumental in all of the ideas that go into making the show every week. Thanks so much for listening, and we’ll see you again.

The article Next Round: How Caffe Dante Went From Neighborhood Coffee Shop to ‘World’s Best Bar’ appeared first on VinePair.

source https://vinepair.com/articles/next-round-linden-pride-caffe-dante/

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nikhilgraphic · 4 years ago

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How Do Professional Designers Work From Home?

Working from house is an idea that’s still foreign to several people. However, as a consequence of COVID-19, work from home has suddenly become a reality for more and more professionals of all industries everywhere the planet . However, the planning community features a leg up during this new reality, as many professional designers have already transitioned to understanding of their homes years ago. That’s why we reached bent variety of professional designers from our Creative Market community to ask them the way to optimize the work-from-home setup, learn graphic designing from the best institutions which have provided the best graphic designing course in Delhi. What we discovered may be a collection of diverse, intelligent designers who have mastered what it's to succeed when performing at their craft domestically. Here are their actionable tips that you simply , too, can use to empower yourself to figure from range in these difficult times.

1. Eliminate “Busy Work”

Jeremy Vessey from the Hustle Supply Co. understands time management better than others. It comes right down to identifying what’s important. "I’ve been performing from home since 2013 as a kind and logo designer. the foremost important thing for my business has been learning to spot what moves the needle and what doesn’t,” Jeremy said. “It’s easy to let non-essential tasks take up longer than the tasks that really matter. I’ve tried to avoid ‘busy work.’ It takes some trial and error to work out what that ‘busy work’ actually is for you. Once you begin to refine your process, you’ll start to know the tasks that aren’t materializing into anything, and you'll cut them out.” Setting your priorities helps tons , too. “As a store owner on Creative Market, I attempt to specialist in product creation, lead generation, and marketing. It’s easy to urge before myself, thinking that i used to be productive one week, but i do know my markers for productivity—I’ve defined them. For me, this is able to mean making a product live, launching lead magnets and landing pages, and having scheduled email and social media posts, all of which may be tracked. repeatedly , I’ve felt like i used to be making progress during a sort of areas, but there was nothing to point out for it. By defining the metrics that matter, i noticed that half-finished means nothing. sort of a checklist, specialist in completing one thing before starting subsequent ,” he advised. Many times, I’ve felt like i used to be making progress during a sort of areas, but there was nothing to point out for it. By defining the metrics that matter, i noticed that half-finished means nothing.

Finally, limit your distractions.

“I get distracted easily. My preferred method of working is during a series of ‘sprints.’ I specialise in one thing and one thing just for short bursts. i will be able to break an outsized task down into small sections, in order that it doesn’t feel overwhelming. It’s better to end one thing than to spread myself thin in three to four, different areas and find yourself with nothing to point out for it. Refine your process. Throw out the busy work, and keep only the essential tasks. Define your productivity metrics, and specialise in completion. Small amounts of your time during a focused state are worth far more than large amounts of your time being scatterbrained.”

2. Only Set Realistic Goals

Not having realistic goals can sabotage yourself once you work from home. Pixel Sauce’s Jeremy Podger features a lot of experience making progress on moving projects forward when reception.

“Working from home successfully is all about setting goals. an enormous mistake we make is setting unrealistic goals. It's great to possess a to-do list, but you'll make it much harder on yourself by trying to try to to an excessive amount of . We've found, when we've put too many things on our daily to-do list and do not get everything done, it seems like failure and it's depressing,” Jeremy indicated. “Setting goals is super-important as a freelancer performing from home. Setting realistic goals is even more important. Decide what's a sensible amount of labor to urge done every day , and stick with it. You'll feel more accomplished and more motivated.”Breaking bigger jobs into smaller tasks is additionally an important a part of this strategy.

“Working on an enormous project are often pretty daunting, especially when you're performing from home and need to motivate yourself. we discover breaking down an enormous project into smaller tasks helps massively. Once you've got an inventory of smaller tasks that results in the completion of the project, you recognize the trail you've got to require . It makes getting started and staying on task such a lot easier.

3. Stay Clean and arranged (and Treat Yourself, too)

Because of COVID-19, it’s more important than ever to practice good hygiene like washing your hands. However, being successful once you work from home also means staying clean during a psychological sense, as shop owner Maria Tokar explains.

“Having a clean, properly ventilated, and cozy workspace also can cause you to forget you’re reception and not within the office. as an example , I can’t concentrate once I see any unnecessary stuff on my desk, so I always attempt to keep it as clean as possible. It’s crucial to avoid any distractions. for instance , it’s better to not hear podcasts when you’re performing on something where you would like to use full concentration,” Maria said.

Of course, making a while to reward yourself goes an extended way toward your productivity, as well. “I believe that when we’re done working, we deserve a treat,” Maria continued. “That could be watching our favourite movie, having a pleasant , home-cooked dinner, or anything . Remembering that the treat is coming makes it much easier to be productive.”

4. Create an Environment That Supports Your Work From Home Projects

You may be the foremost ambitious graphic designer out there, but if you fail to create an environment in your home which will easily support your work, then you’re not getting to get very far. Graphic designer Connary Fagen offers some takeaways that are words to measure by.

“Create an environment that permits you to figure well. this may vary for everyone; a quiet, peaceful room works best on behalf of me . If possible, a fanatical workspace is well worth the effort, especially if you are doing tons of video conferencing or if you employ specialized supplies and tools in your work. However, I also find value in traveling throughout the day,” he revealed. “Sometimes I just want to get down with a laptop and work on a couch instead of sitting at a desk. See what works for you. If you reside with others or have kids, try setting gentle, but firm boundaries while you’re working. If you’re limited on space and don’t have a spare room, try partitioning off a neighborhood for work.”A crucial component of your environment is your logistics, so concentrate to those also . “Consider the mundane logistics. A steady, reliable Internet connection may be a lifeline for many jobs. On-site and offsite backup of your work is significant . find out how to use your tools and troubleshoot issues. If you’re running your entire business from home, things like an uninterrupted power supply, a document shredder, online invoicing, and secure networking are worth looking into.”

5. The 4-Point decide to Working-From-Home Success

Sometimes, you can’t just do one thing to achieve success once you work from home. It comes right down to a constellation of tactics you've got to regularly plan to doing well. Set Sail Studios’ Sam Parrett recommends the subsequent , starting with routines. Routines “It's so important to stay to a daily routine and to separate work from your home life. You'll work far more efficiently and be ready to relax and luxuriate in your downtime to the fullest. We all joke about sitting at our desk in our underwear and watching Netflix, but actually , I confirm to possess a correct breakfast, dress , and be ready for work as soon as I can,” Sam said. Space You may also think hard about getting some dedicated office space. “As tempting because it sounds to figure from the sofa, I also recommend fully dedicating a neighborhood of your house to be your office. When I'm in my office space, I'm 100% in work mode; if I feel my focus is slipping, I step faraway from it,” he said. “Over the years, I've found that I'm far more efficient and productive once I do even two to 3 hours of really focused, concentrated work, compared to seven to eight hours of unfocused, distracted work. the previous also leaves you with more downtime and can cause you to less frustrated about not having the ability to suit anything into your day. Balance Then, there’s the difficulty of working late. Just don’t roll in the hay . “One thing I often stumble on is trying to not work too late into the night. Having two, young kids means that's very hard on behalf of me to not do, because those are usually the quietest hours in my house! If I stay awake too late, it's a ripple effect on subsequent day, throws me out of routine, and means i can not focus thanks to tiredness,” Sam stated. If I stay awake too late, it's a ripple effect on subsequent day, throws me out of routine, and means i can not focus thanks to tiredness. Community As with all other things in life, having support in your industry helps tons , too. “Always reach bent your industry's community. It can sometimes get lonely working by yourself, but fear not. There are many, many people within the same position as you. I'm a part of a Slack group of other digital designers, and it's great to excuse some steam, chat with people that can 100% relate to my situation, and also just to socialize.”

6. Set Strategic Alarms to Remind Yourself of Break Times

As you're employed from home, you begin to urge tempted into just throwing yourself into your work, rarely arising for air. This recipe for disaster results in all kinds of problems, like burnout, within the end of the day . That’s why shop owner Abbie Nurse recommends using technology to make sure that you simply give yourself breaks during your workday. “I find myself getting really absorbed by creative problem solving and suddenly realizing that it’s 2:30 p.m. within the afternoon—and I’ve forgotten to eat lunch. So I set alarms on my phone for 10:30 a.m., 12:30 p.m., and 3:00 p.m. i do know it sounds counter-productive to interrupt your flow, but I’ve realized that getting up, walking downstairs, cuddling the dogs, and making a cup of tea can actually give me more perspective,” Abbie commented.

“In an office situation, these sorts of breaks would happen organically, but, within the absence of human co-workers, I’ve need to make time for breaks more intentionally. I also find that, because i do know there's an opportunity set, I’m less inclined to randomly mope off downstairs simply because I’m feeling hungry or bored.”

7. Work on Your Communication Skills once you Work From Home

Communicating effectively and honestly results in career success. this is applicable anywhere, but it are often the differentiating factor that creates a home-based designer stand out from their competitors. Twinbrush’s Rian Magee features a few thoughts on why communication is important . “I’ve always stood by the principles of integrity and honesty, in terms of what I tell clients and therefore the feedback I’d like from them. Don’t promise what you can’t deliver just to land a job; that only results in added stress. If you don’t deliver, the negative impact on your reputation might be disastrous. Be honest, set reasonable timeframes and deliverables,” Rian said. “If you can’t check out the work for every week , your clients would rather hear you say that than have a deadline missed or receive a load of apologetic emails, pushing the deadline forward. For all you recognize , they need made arrangements with printers or other factions of their supply chain.” Even so, it’s important that designers performing from home realize that they ought to work smart, not just hard. “Having said that, don’t be afraid to succeed in bent other creatives,” Rian continued. “If you recognize someone which will bring unique skills to the table, ask them. Maybe there are projects you collaborate on. At the top of the day, few clients, or a minimum of those worth working with, care whether it’s you doing the work or a team of 20. If you successfully meet the standards of the brief, on time and on budget, that’s rock bottom line.”

Good communication also means being the master of your tech—not the opposite way around. “I keep my email client open within the background and found out desktop notifications. On top of that, I set time aside (first thing within the morning and once an hour, if I can remember) to manually check emails, especially the junk folder (you never know: a possible dream client might be lurking in there). Just attempt to respond during a timely way. There are times I’m so engrossed during a project or process that things slip a touch , but as long as you’re not leaving it to the purpose you get a ‘sorry to chase you…’ email, you’re doing grand!

8. Use the proper Tech Tools

A big a part of moving projects forward as you're employed from home depends on the tools you employ . You don’t just use them; you believe them to run and grow your design business. One United Arab Emirates-based design business has this right down to a science. Graphic designer Havel Sharif, of Slide Salad, breaks down the way to keep a design operation running smoothly. “We have multiple team members who work from different locations and countries, therefore the big challenge was to seek out the proper tools to stay everything organized and have the team on an equivalent page to satisfy deadlines,” Havel revealed.

“For communication, we found that Trellis is that the best tool for project management. When it involves design and software, Adobe Suite and Microsoft Office support the core of our work. we will not imagine our life without that software. For our weekly and monthly meetings, we use Skype or Team Viewer to stay our team so far with new and upcoming tasks and milestones. When it involves file sharing, we use Dropbox and Google Drive, especially when sharing large files with our team and clients, and email also . Finally, for accounting and invoices, we use Zoho Books to manage our finances, automate business workflows, and help us work across all departments.”F

9. Create Those All-Important Boundaries

Boundaries assist you separate your professional design life from the opposite things in your life, so you'll focus more effectively on your projects and business. Catherine Haugland from Avalon Rose Design believes that this is often more crucial than ever once you work from home. “As a graphic designer, I’ve worked from home for the past 15 years. For me, the simplest thanks to achieve success is to make boundaries between my work life and residential life. On any given day, there is a flurry of distractions that are difficult on behalf of me to avoid, whether it’s a basket of laundry that basically must be folded, subsequent episode of a favourite show that’s begging to be watched, or the temptation to subside the Pinterest rabbit burrow ,” Catherine acknowledged. On any given day, there is a flurry of distractions that are difficult on behalf of me to avoid, whether it’s a basket of laundry that basically must be folded, subsequent episode of a favourite show that’s begging to be watched, or the temptation to subside the Pinterest rabbit burrow ."I’ve found the simplest thanks to stay task is to possess a strict, regular schedule. Starting work on an equivalent time a day , taking regular breaks, and setting a delegated quitting time really help create a routine that’s not only easy to stay to, but leads to a much more productive day.”

10. Understand That It Comes right down to Sheer Determination

You know that old saying, whenever there’s a will, there’s a way? It’s more vital than ever if you would like to form it as knowledgeable designer, as you're employed from home, especially during the coronavirus. Brian Smith from StockMamba offers some insight and takeaways.“If I don’t have something to try to to , I structure something to try to to . In my case, I’m an stage director , illustrator, and animator. I worked from home for over 15 years. For the past three years, I even have been working full-time as an internet designer during the day for a serious streaming service. i'm also performing on creating all of the artwork for five floors of a children’s hospital as a contract project, also as designing a print magazine for an outsized publisher ,” Brian said.“Yet still, in between client approvals, at night, I work on creating texture packs or illustrations to sell. The machine doesn't stop. I realize that's an insane amount of labor . I’ve never actually had the maximum amount work on my plate as I do immediately . the purpose is, if you aren’t a driven person, you likely won’t even entertain a workload of that magnitude.”

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johnboothus · 4 years ago

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Next Round: The Future of Super-Premium Vodka With Miranda Dickson of Absolut Elyx

On this episode of “Next Round,” host Adam Teeter chats with Miranda Dixon, the global brand director for Absolut Elyx. Dixon walks listeners through the unique history of Elyx — one that heavily involves the use of copper stills. Listeners will also get a chance to learn about the product’s controversial release and strong focus on consumer education.

Like many alcohol brands, Elyx has recently been forced to shift its focus during the Covid-19 pandemic, adjusting to marketing its products for at-home rather than on-premise consumption. Dixon explains how Elyx has adapted to this “new normal” as a super-premium vodka. Tune in to learn more about the past, present, and future of Absolut Elyx.

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Adam Teeter: From Brooklyn, New York, I’m Adam Teeter. And this is a “VinePair Podcast” conversation. We are bringing you these conversations in between our regular podcast episodes to give you a better idea of what’s going on in the alcohol beverage industry. Today, I’m talking with Miranda Dixon, the global brand director for Absolut Elyx. Miranda, thank you for joining me.

Miranda Dixon: Thank you for having me.

A: Where do we find you on this lovely day in March?

D: Well, here I am this Sunday morning, sitting in Los Angeles.

A: Wow, so talk to me a little bit about Absolut Elyx. Most people, I think, are aware of it now. It’s been around for about 10 years, but what is the brand? I’m also curious as to how it sits outside of Absolut, because I always assumed that Elyx was sort of part of Absolut, but to hear that you are the global brand director of Elyx, I’m so curious about what the hierarchy is and where the brand fits in the brand family of Absolut.

D: It took us three years to make Absolut, and that was between 2007 to 2010 when we made Elyx. Of course, everybody’s fully aware of the brand Absolut Vodka. With Elyx, what we did was look at every element of the way we produced Absolut Vodka and tried to craft and finesse each stage of the production process. For example, in the wheat fields that we use for Absolut Vodka, we went to one of the farmers that we have the best relationship with and worked with him to try and create a very specific wheat variety from the terroir. Then, from one single estate in Sweden, we use that wheat for the creation of Absolut Elyx. We’re not saying that wheat is giving a better product. It’s just a different product. What we wanted to do is create something that was a handcrafted expression of Absolut Vodka. Taking every element that we’ve learned and building it into a craft, something that’s a handmade product. Therefore, it takes much more time to create Elyx. We make it in one distillery, which is the original Absolut distillery in southern Sweden. It’s very closely related, from a production point of view, from how we actually make the product from the ingredients that we use. We’re very lucky in southern Sweden because the distillery sits on top of a huge ancient aquifer that we use the same water for Absolut Vodka as we use for Elyx, because it’s complete purity. There are lots of similarities between the actual product itself. However, it comes from one single estate and it is a handmade product. It really is handmade, there are no computers in the distillery. It’s about seven guys who know how to operate this equipment. It is genuinely a handmade product.

A: What was the decision to create Elyx? Why create Elyx?

D: Krister Asplund was a master distiller who had worked creating Absolut Vodka for 35 years. He really had ambition. In 1973, when we created Absolut Vodka, the world was a very different place, and what was possible through manufacturing was very different from how it is today in the world of vodka. All knowledge gained from Absolut Vodka, he had a lot of energy in distilling down this knowledge to finesse a different expression of Absolut — using that wheat to give the vodka a slightly different profile. I suppose that could be described as this more refined product.

A: Has the hope been to graduate the Absolut drinker to Absolut Elyx? Are you trying to bring other people into the vodka category through Absolut Elyx? Where do you see the brand fitting in among drinkers in general and what people are looking for?

D: I think we see Elyx as the product that you’d reach for as a special occasion. For example, if you were an Absolut drinker, maybe Elyx is the product you would grab to take to a friend’s party on the weekend. As I said, when Absolut launched, the world of the vodka shelf was a very different place than it is today. We would say that Elyx is absolutely exceptional in a Martini, for example, which perhaps isn’t the way people are consuming Absolut Vodka today. It could be in longer drinks, more simple mixed drinks. The way that it has this very refined, very special mouthfeel is so much better enjoyed in spirit-forward drinks, for example. That is a space in which one might select Elyx as an option. Also, we see the brand is appealing to non-vodka drinkers as well. Elyx has a very distinct taste, flavor, and specifically a very refined mouthfeel. It’s very, very smooth and silky in texture. It showcases extremely well in a spirit-forward drink.

A: Where does that mouthfeel come from? Is it because of the wheat you’re using? Is that from the distillation process? How is that occurring?

D: It basically comes from the distillation process, exactly. The way we create Absolut Elyx is, again, very unique. We use copper, which is not unique. We know spirit production uses copper, but it’s the way that we employ copper. We use a vintage still from 1921 to make Elyx, which is this hand-operated still. In addition to that, we’re using sacrificial copper in the first distillation. What that is doing is removing many of the primary unwanted impurities. It’s removing a lot of unwanted odors or fusel oils at the first point of distillation, so you have a fine spirit that you’re going to be creating. It is already a very different profile from Absolut Vodka. It’s crafted completely through this copper still. I know that Krister believes that the still is the magic of Absolut Elyx, that gives it this very specific profile.

A: It’s interesting to me that we’re talking a little bit earlier about modernism from where we were in 1973 to how we’ve changed in vodka since then. But then for forward-thinking products, you went back to a machine built in 1921. That’s really interesting. Copper is obviously a big part of the brand. That’s how I’ve always seen the brand show up. Was it known by the distilling team at the time that copper would be the type of still to use in order to create the type of vodka they wanted to make?

D: Yes. When I talk about looking at every element of the process of Absolut Vodka, they’re using copper in the primary distillation process, but it’s not sacrificial. It’s not being discarded after every single batch, which is how we produce Elyx. I think it was evident that this copper catalyzation process very much helps impart something differentiated to the vodka. Copper is part of the tradition of distillation in Sweden, and it’s central to that. It made sense to use copper. Even within the huge facility, which creates the millions of cases of Absolut Vodka, copper is employed and is inside stainless steel. It’s still there. It’s still being used, but not in quite the same proportion as we’re using it with Elyx.

A: Interesting. Full disclosure, when I was a kid, I collected Absolut Vodka ads because I thought they were super cool. When you were creating Elyx, was this also to give Absolut a competitor against like a Grey Goose or a Belvedere? Was that how you came to have a super premium? I always thought that Absolut was super premium until Elyx was released, so I’m curious as to what the business decisions were behind it.

D: We see Absolut sitting firmly on the premium shelf. What you saw in the early ’90s with the release of Belvedere and Grey Goose, you see a complete changing of the vodka context. Honestly, I don’t think that a consumer understands premium or super premium. They just understand the price point.

A: Yeah, that’s true.

D: What’s interesting with the super-premium category as a whole, but specifically with vodka, there’s no aging process. There’s no appellation on whiskey, Cognac, for example. The price point is largely defined by a fancy bottle, various claims, and marketing claims on the pack. This category with vodka seems to be between $25 — in America, it’s especially broad — but $25 up to $140. It’s so broad. I went to the store the other day and I see what I would say is a premium product sitting next to a super-premium product with the same price point. Pricing in the U.S., specifically on shelves, is quite interesting. With Absolut Elyx, we didn’t say, “OK, we need something to go up against Grey Goose or Belvedere,” who obviously were the market leaders at the time. When we first positioned it, it wasn’t really about that. It was about creating something that really was a handcrafted expression that says something much more craft-forward. In the initial process, we never thought about it being something that would be drunk in nightclubs and sparklers. As I imagine, many of the Champagne houses never would have dreamed of that either. We never saw that being a play in the product. It was more about very good quality drinks and creating a product that could deliver on exceptional, spirit-forward cocktails.

A: I remember when Elyx debuted, it was the brand that helped re-educate or remind bartenders at craft cocktail bars that you could make really good drinks with vodka. I remember seeing Elyx pushing very hard into that space. Was that intentional?

D: Yes. We deliberately partnered with initially 15 bars in New York and specifically forged a great relationship with Jim Meehan to educate people. I think we came around at a time where bartenders were anti-vodka. I wanted to say to people that’s not really fair. First of all, the consumer still loves vodka, even if the bartender is anti-vodka. There’s a lot more to vodka than you may think. It was always important to us to continue to push for education. People need to understand what makes good vodka, and to teach people that it is a fundamental entry point.

A: When I first came in contact with Absolut Elyx, I believe it was at Betony (RIP) and they had a ton of pineapples and things like that. This was one of the very early days of VinePair. I think I was just starting the publication. It was around the time you guys were launching, like seven years ago or so. They used to tell me that people stole them. Is that true?

D: Yes, actually, the first time we showcased the pineapple was at Talese of the Cocktail in 2015. We made 200 of them. I remember going to the POS team and them saying, “You are crazy, these are so expensive, what are you doing?” We put them out there and out of our 200, I think only 54 came home. You could see immediately that these were a hit, but it was a good problem to have. So we started replicating. We found a way to make them less expensive and make them available to bars and restaurants all over the world. In fact, I think right now there are over 60,000 of these out in the on-premise globally. What we saw is that exactly. People were tipping the ice out under the table and putting them in the handbags.

A: They were drinks vessels, correct? They weren’t shakers.

D: Exactly, they’re cocktail cups. We sat back and said “Wow, this is crazy.” We started initially with a website that was linked to Water for People, which is a charity we were working with at the time. And you could purchase a cup of pineapple and give a donation of $5 to Water for People. People just loved these vessels. With that in mind, we started expanding, and I worked on expanding the whole range of copper vessels. Now, we have copper gnomes, pineapples, mermaids, turtles, cats, and little lovebirds. We have this whole range of fun, fantasy-style copper drinking vessels. A huge flamingo punchbowl. We’ve also set up elyxboutique.com, where we retail those directly to consumers. That’s also been a big part of our play during times of Covid, because it gives the opportunity for people to go online and buy these great cups, which make great gifting, with cocktail ideas, how to drink with each cup and vessel, etc. That’s complemented by copper bar tools and other lifestyle pieces like cufflinks and decorations.

A: Very cool. You very much leaned into copper. I love it.

D: It’s the cornerstone of how we made the brand. It just made sense. It’s great that it also happens to be fashionable as a color and a material. It’s also absolutely central to the way we create Absolut Elyx.

A: Very cool. Now that we are obviously full-on in a global pandemic and the on-premise has closed — which I used to see Elyx at a lot — how has your strategy changed or had your strategy already evolved prior to Covid? What have you done since the beginning in terms of positioning of the brand?

D: The brand has massively evolved since we first launched. While we were in spirit-forward craft cocktail bars and hotel bars, we realized that there’s a scope outside that. We started working very closely with global trade, in terms of creating more exciting drinking experiences, as well as educating on the product. The reality is the territory of this so-called super-premium category is nightlife as well. It was difficult for us to remain in the bars as part of the portfolio. Because the way our company is set up, we’re a decentralized organization. What that means is that, transparently, our sales guys will be going into accounts, selling a bunch of different products, and vodka is obviously part of that setup. People want to drink great vodka in nightclubs. Honestly, it wasn’t a strategy of ours. It was more about the fact that this is what the bars, restaurants, and nightclubs wanted. They wanted a vodka, and we see that expanding in that segment. It’s really the Champagne, tequila, and vodka. Then, we created systems, ideas, fancy ice buckets, things that were not sparkler-forward. But something that could work in that environment for the brand and then embrace that as another facet of the brand.

A: Since you brought up nightclubs, which is interesting to me, I’m curious. Obviously, Cognac has seen massive booms in Covid. The sales are just through the roof. Obviously, that has to do with the Cognac already surging prior to Covid. It was already on the upswing. Our own independent data sets that we have through VinePair Insights were showing that early on. One of the other large reasons people are saying Cognac is booming is because a lot of people who drank it in the clubs started to realize how much it actually cost off-premise, and were buying more of it. They’ve seen massive sales because of that. I’m curious, has the same happened to Elyx?

D: No, unfortunately not. Covid really pushed it in the off-premise. We’ve been a very trade-forward brand, and we’ve been very on-premise focused. The way we show up, which you touched on earlier on copper, is creating a visual identity of the brand. That’s very much still an on-premise play. With 10 years, we’re still a brand in its infancy. Once we started doing some co-packs with fancy copper cups in the off-premise, it’s not something that we’ve really pushed or embraced. Being in grocery stores, for example, has not been a major part of the brand because it’s been more about seeding the brand, growing equity within the on-premise.

A: You’re in L.A. because of a special Elyx house, correct?

D: Yeah, that’s correct. We talked a lot about the product itself and how the product’s made, but that was never the whole story of Absolut Vodka. You talked about the advertisements. People touched on this cultural identity of the brand just as much as they talked about the actual liquid itself. That was a great inspiration for us with Absolut Elyx, because if we look at the heritage of Absolut, art, fashion, and culture is so much part of the DNA of the brand’s disruptive character. That’s something that really motivated and inspired me when working on Absolut Elyx and expanding and exploring that. That came to life by creating these Absolut Elyx houses. We started off by creating one in New York in a loft apartment in Manhattan. Then we created this Elyx house in the Hollywood Hills in Los Angeles. The idea of the houses is to create this utopia, where you’re stepping into the world of Elyx where nothing is branded. It’s more about creating this alternative lifestyle. We’ve used the house for hosting trade events, parties, celebrity birthday parties, educational sessions, etc. That’s basically the usage of the house, and obviously for company internal meetings and seminars, etc. It’s a fully dedicated mansion in Hollywood that is the Elyx house.

A: Does the New York one exist anymore?

D: No, it doesn’t. We had it for a year, and we ran the two houses together. From an organizational/operational point of view, it is very difficult to keep them both going. We had that house for two years. We’ve had the Elyx house in L.A. for five years.

A: What happened to the house during Covid for the last year?

D: Well, we’ve been making lots of content creation there. You asked earlier about what we have done with Covid? Well, one of the things that have become apparent — something that I focused on anyway — is how are we going to get people excited about how to drink Elyx, especially if they’re sitting at home? We’ve done a lot of work with trade based in L.A doing films on how to make perfect Martinis, how to make great cocktails, and shooting in our ready-made set. That’s the main way in which we used it. For the holidays, we did some work with Dita Von Teese, and we did Halloween, Thanksgiving, and New Year’s Eve. She made some great, fun videos at the house, too. That’s what we’ve been using for content creation.

A: At this point, do you think post-Covid, the plan is to go back to the playbook you had been using in terms of pushing into the clubs and being more of an on-trade liquid? Or do you think that, given Covid and everything that it has done to at-home bartending and consumption, will it cause you to reevaluate the strategy? Will Elyx be showing up more in people’s homes than it used to?

D: Yes, of course. We will continue to work with the trade. I think that the trade and the professionals in our industry are really the heartbeat that keeps it so exciting in our industry. Even when people aren’t showing up in bars and clubs, these are still the people creating the trends, creating the cocktails. We’ll continue to work with them on solutions for how to keep encouraging people to drink better at home, to finesse their cocktail techniques, and impress their friends. Using professional hats and doubling down on that still. At-home bartending is definitely not going to go away, and there’s so much more interest in it than there ever was before. It would be foolish not to continue what we started during Covid, but also to really work with bars and restaurants as they start coming back and getting back on their feet after the crisis. How can we support them in creating tools and solutions for them to weather this new world post-Covid?

A: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Well, this has been a really fascinating conversation, and I really want to thank you for taking the time to chat with me more about Elyx, what’s going on with the brand, and how it developed. It’s been really cool to hear its story. I want to thank you, and I wish you the best of luck in the future with the brand.

D: Thank you so much.

Thanks so much for listening to the “VinePair Podcast.” If you love this show as much as we love making it, then please leave a rating on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever it is you get your podcasts. It really helps everyone else discover the show.

Now, for the credits. VinePair is produced and recorded in New York City and Seattle, Wash., by myself and Zach Geballe, who does all the editing and loves to get the credit. Also, I would love to give a special shout-out to my VinePair co-founder, Josh Malin, for helping make all this possible, and also to Keith Beavers, VinePair’s tasting director, who is additionally a producer on the show. I also want to, of course, thank every other member of the VinePair team who are instrumental in all of the ideas that go into making the show every week. Thanks so much for listening, and we’ll see you again.

The article Next Round: The Future of Super-Premium Vodka With Miranda Dickson of Absolut Elyx appeared first on VinePair.

Via https://vinepair.com/articles/next-round-absolut-elyx/

source https://vinology1.weebly.com/blog/next-round-the-future-of-super-premium-vodka-with-miranda-dickson-of-absolut-elyx

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travelcenter-uk · 4 years ago

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10 Ways on How to Save Money During COVID-19 for Future Trips

As we all get used to the “new normal,” many of us, including me, are looking forward to travelling post-COVID-19.

A survey done in mid-May found that seven in 10 people miss going on holidays, while half miss the preparation. Forty-five per cent predicted they’d take one road trip between mid-May, end of August, 20% expected to engage in air travel.

Since COVID-19 hit, we’ve all been held-up at home, and it has affected everyone’s finances and their future travel plans. With finances at its breaking point, it is vital that you keep your travel spirit alive, to keep you inspired.

So, here are ways to save money while you’re at home, so your travel till can have a stable income.

How to Save Money to Travel in the Future?

Begin a FUNDMYTRAVEL Campaign

For me, this is one of the simplest ways to save money for your future travel! You can easily share your efforts on social media platforms, making it easy to reach many people very fast.

Your fundraiser can also be personalized with videos or pictures to justify your reason for raising money to potential donors. Crafting a FundMyTravel campaign makes everything very clear; you can also offer donors something additional, like keepsakes from your travels.

Plan a Pick-Up Bake Sale (or Drop-Off Later)

Try this saving tip so that you can travel: sell baked foods.You might have seen this conventional solution featured in many movies; trust me, it does work!

It doesn’t have to be only baked goods; you can do this for every kind of food you enjoy making. Leave them on your porch for pick-up, deliver them by leaving them on their porches, or get people to pre-order.

Get an Online Garage Sale Going

There are many websites made just for this, or you can utilize Social Media.

This is one thing quarantine is useful for; it’s the perfect way for people to get rid of unwanted stuff. Other than just throwing them away, why not try and make some money out of it.

Do Some Online Teaching

It’s no excuse not to be productive and find online jobs just because you’re at home! There are many things you can do online, and during quarantine, the most popular subject to teach online is English. Plenty of language websites hire native speakers as teachers for the growing demand during this pandemic. But you can teach other subjects as well.

Get an Online Auction Going

This trend was started years ago and showed that it could be very profitable and successful. The items on an online auction have to be in perfect condition, and you’ll need to verify it with pictures. Why will people even think of getting it without seeing it? You can sell vintage items and pieces of art!

Start Freelancing

Now more than ever, people are online, which means that there’s a growth in online content creation. There are many video editing requests, online writing, digital art, and photos, which is sky-high. Freelancing doesn’t pay as much, but it can be an ideal way to save money for future travel.

Do Online Tutoring

With kids being at home these days’, parents are stressed out. By offering online tutoring, you can be the additional help that all parents need right now! Ask to assist their kids with their homework and secondary activities, virtually or in-person, based on your country’s current situation. Make it enjoyable for the kids to learn at home while providing parents a little time for themselves.

Stay Away from Online Shopping

Like an addiction for stay-at-home workers, this can ruin all your well-laid-out future travel plans. All you need to do is say no. Learn to be cautious so that you can be more attentive at what you do, and hold out against temptation. If you feel like shopping, throw yourself at once into an alternate activity like exercise (but only if it’s free). And make a promise to shop in your wardrobe for a month – while doing that, put some stuff on eBay.

Substitute a Cancelled Trip with a New One

Trying to validate a new trip? How about that cancelled holiday? Or also that trip you temporarily thought about going on but didn’t finish booking? The plane tickets, the hotel, and that new swimsuit that you didn’t buy – all these funds can be put aside for your Trust me; it’s the correct thing to do.

Start Reading Audio Books, E-Books

Now’s the perfect time to listen to a podcast or start reading a great book. If your local library is closed, and purchasing books online makes you go broke, start embracing e-books or audiobooks. All types of complimentary audiobooks or e-books can be found – from travel stories to classics – without worrying about late charges.

To keep your future travel plans alive during the pandemic, there are plenty of tricks on how to save money. Just because we’re stuck at home, it doesn’t mean you can’t invent methods to get yourself ready for travelling post-covid-19.

Your future travel plans need to go on, and so should your life!

Soon, there will be no travel restrictions, no need for face masks, and social distancing. It is suggested that you take advantage of this time now to use these simple ways to save money.

So, comment below and let us know what you think? Have you tried any of these saving tips? And, keep in mind that wherever you want to travel to in the future, travel safely and sensibly this season.

Travel Center provides you deals with small deposits to be paid for holidays, which can be reserved for future dates. Booked now with a low deposit, you can get a holiday reserved at a cost-effective price for a later date.

Read More:- 10 Ways on How to Save Money During COVID-19 for Future Trips

This Article, Information & Images Source (copyright):- Travel Center UK Blog

#travel #traveller #travelling #travellife #travelgoals #travelcenteruk #travelblog #travelblogger #traveltips

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stereogeekspodcast · 4 years ago

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[Transcript] Season 1, Episode 16. We've Been Busy With... HoX/PoX, Kipo and the Age of the Wonderbeasts, Snapdragon, and more

We've been busy listening to podcasts, reading comics, and watching shows. Ron's enjoyed The Good, the Bad, the Basic podcast, when she isn't marathon-watching Kipo and the Age of the Wonderbeasts, and reading the delightful graphic novel, Snapdragon. Mon's been reading X-Men: House of X/ Powers of X and Avengers comics about Scarlet Witch and Vision in the run-up to WandaVision. And we've been enjoying Netflix's Best Leftovers Ever.

Here are the books Mon's been reading for WandaVision, if you want to check them out.

1. Avengers: Vision and the Scarlet Witch

2. Avengers: Vision and the Scarlet Witch: A Year in the Life

3. Avengers: Disassembled

4. House of M

Listen to the episode on Anchor.

[Continuum by Audionautix plays]

Ron: Hello and welcome to another episode of Stereo Geeks, where we’re talking about what we’ve been busy with this month. I’m Ron.

Mon: And I’m Mon.

Ron: We’ve been listening to podcasts, reading comic books, catching up on animated TV shows, as well as some food-related programs.

Mon: Let's kick off with something that you've been listening to.

Ron: I'm always on the lookout for a new podcast and I'm always excited when I find one that I just can't stop listening to—The Good, the Bad, the Basic, a podcast for millennials by millennials. This podcast, hosted by Alex and Em, does weekly deep dives into the most popular TV shows of our time. But what made these shows so special, and so memorable that we're still talking about them, years later? Alex and Em tackle shows like Mad Men, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, The OC, Dawson's Creek, and examine how they changed the pop culture landscape, so much so that we're still seeing repercussions even now.

I love me a good podcast with lots of conversation, and that's exactly what I get with Alex and Em. The Good, the Bad, the Basic is kind of like a grading podcast, but the way they give context to everything that they're talking about, that's what makes it so fun. And I just could not stop listening to these episodes.

And when I'm talking about deep dives, they really do deep dives. Some of the episodes continue on for an hour, maybe more, and are broken up into two or three installments. That's a lot of information, but then, we’re talking about shows that went on for seven-eight seasons. So, there's a lot to cover.

What makes The Good, the Bad, the Basic such an engrossing podcast is that most of the shows that they're talking about, everybody loves them. But I never really felt the need to watch them. Now, I can listen to what Alex and Em have to say about it and feel informed without actually having to sift through endless seasons of something that I know I'm not going to enjoy. Mad Men, for example, The Vampire Diaries, The Originals. These are shows that have become part of the cultural Zeitgeist, but I just don't want to watch them. Now I know exactly what people love about them and why some people have a lot of issues with them.

I like how Alex and Em give a lot of context to what is happening in the shows. It's not just the fact that these shows were enjoyable for fans. It's more about when and how they were released, and what made them stand out amongst all the other entertainment that was available. The thing is, for us, coming from India, a lot of these cultural references passed us by. Things were different for us at the other end of the world. So, these were just TV shows, but here, they were phenomena. It's great to find out how that came to be and the effects it had on the cultural landscape, especially in entertainment.

If you're looking for a podcast that's interesting, fun, sometimes sarcastic, but very, very honest about what makes pop culture memorable, but also sometimes problematic, The Good, the Bad, the Basic is definitely for you. What have you been up to, Mon?

Mon: Well, we recently rejoined our comic book club, which is now taking place completely online. And the book to reel us back in was HoX/ PoX, House of X, and Powers of X, by Jonathan Hickman, Pepe Larraz, and RB Silva. Now, this is basically the X-Men rebooted, because they had really gone out of control in the comic universe. And every time it seemed like the Marvel editors had found a way to reel them in, they didn't. So, Jonathan Hickman had a plan, and the plan was HoX/ PoX.

I have to say, it is compelling! Because it's such a different tone from what we're used to with the X-Men universe, and it is a nice jumping-on point because for far too long the X-Men universe has been impenetrable, like the Krakoan wall. But with this book, you feel like, yes, I know these characters. They’re in a completely different world and thought process, but at least I can get back in there.

It's tough to really understand whether I like this book or not, because, as much as I like being with these characters, they just don't feel like the X-Men. There’s something so dark and sinister about everything that's happening. It just doesn't feel right. What about you? What did you think about this book?

Ron: I agree that it was nice to actually read an X-Men book and understand where I was. It's been a really long time since I felt that way. The moment we left the X-Men a few years ago, that was it, there was no way back in. I’m glad, in a way, that we've got HoX/ PoX because otherwise we wouldn't be able to reconnect with these characters, and we really do love the X-Men. I don't like the fact that the X-Men come across as untrustworthy in this book. For me, these characters look familiar; they don't feel familiar. And that made me really uncomfortable.

And the other issue that I had with it was that the X-Men has always stood for marginalized communities, but this book seemed to be ignoring the actual marginalized X-Men. So, Storm hardly has anything to do in this book. We get to see, what, one glimpse of Iceman? it's very straight, white, male and I thought we were well past that.

Mon: Yeah, I think one of the things that most of us have realized with the X-Men comics is that as much as they want to represent marginalized community experiences, they don't seem to want to represent marginalized communities. Story-wise, I felt like there was a very distinct divide between HoX and PoX. With the House of X, you really get to know how Professor X is trying to build this safe space for the mutants within the Krakoan landscape. With the Powers of X, it seemed to be all over the place, with different timelines and trying to explain to us how they all fit in, why it's important for us to know these things, and who the central figure is who ties all these timelines together. But I felt like there was more cohesion within the House of X story, and not with Powers of X, which was trying to build this immersive, expansive world, but kinda constantly got lost in it.

Ron: I didn't feel like there was a huge disconnect between the two books. In fact, I couldn't actually tell the difference. But yes, I found myself drawn towards the X-Men’s present storyline, whereas the future storylines or the alternate storylines, I found them to be rather dull. They didn't add anything to the story as a whole. And I felt like I had to wait till the very end of the book to realize why they were relevant. So that kind of took away my enjoyment of reading the book because, honestly, I don't care about these random characters from the future. I care about the X-Men now.

Mon: Yeah, I completely agree with you on that. The art, though, really brings the book alive, doesn't it?

Ron: Pepe Larraz and RB Silva’s art is exactly how I see the X-Men in my head.

Mon: And the colors by Marte Gracia, so spectacular, it was popping off the page. What I feel with this book is that it is exactly what you need to get back into the X-Men universe, but I don't think it's a perfect introduction.

Ron: I think it tries too hard. But at the end of it, you do want more. I see myself picking up the new X-Men series so that I can see what they're doing.

Mon: Yep. Can't wait to get into it.

Ron: If you heard our Detective Mode episode this month, you'll know that animated TV shows and films have definitely become a source of comfort for us during the pandemic. One animated show that I've heard a lot about and finally caught up with this month was Kipo and the Age of the Wonderbeasts. This was such a fun show! I started with the first episode and I ended up watching all 30! No regrets. That was a really good weekend for me. The show follows Kipo Oak, a teenage girl who has spent her entire life living underground. When an earthquake damages her home, she finds herself above ground for the first time, and there are people up here—very interesting people, very strange people, and very large beasts. Kipo makes new friends, shares her knowledge, expands her skill sets, and ends up making a whole new kind of family. This is a very, very fun show. It is so colorful. The music is so good. I just could not stop watching it.

Mon: I started watching it after you wouldn't stop talking about it. And I have to say, it is a delight. The characters are so vivacious, especially Kipo, you cannot take your eyes off the screen because she is just so full of energy and life. And she has this really positive outlook, even though her circumstances should really get her down. But she doesn't. And one of the things that everybody loves about most of these pop culture properties is found-families. Kipo can't connect with her own family because she’s stuck above ground and she doesn't know where they are, so she finds a new family with her friends. Yes, it's a bit difficult for them to all be on board with each other, they don't trust each other, they don't understand each other, but in the end, they're all trying to fight the same fight and reach the same goals.

Ron: And the one thing I love about these new TV shows for basically, young adults and children—they are so diverse.

Mon: And effortlessly so.

Ron: Our protagonist Kipo is half black and half Asian. First up, it's really good to see biracial characters who aren't half white. And also, Kipo has a connection with both her heritages, and that's really great to see. There are queer characters, queer storylines and there's a plethora of intersectionally diverse characters here that makes the show so reflective of our society as it is now, and so much fun to watch. If you're looking for a light, but energetic and very colorful TV show to watch, you could not do worse than people.

Mon: Sticking with Netflix, we have Best Leftovers Ever. If it's not obvious yet, Ron and I happen to love watching food programs and Best Leftovers Ever sounded like something which was slightly different from the usual. The competitors are given leftover dishes which they need to transform into delectable, fancy meals. This is quite different from the usual fair. They don't have a giant pantry; they don't have the best ingredients to work with. It's actually the worst of the worst, but the premise of the show is basically to make people understand that what they've got in front of them, including leftovers. can be turned into something quite special.

Sometimes you can tell that this show is not as polished as the others, because there are times when you're listening to the judges, and there's so much noise in the background that you can't actually hear. The same thing with some of the contestants. For some reason they didn't ADR that or they didn't use a different mic. So that's a little bit distracting.

I will say that whatever we see on-screen seems to suggest that there's a lot less waste, because the contestants are given very limited leftovers to work with. And given that those are the only ingredients they can use, it's not like they can chuck a whole bunch of food if something goes wrong, which is a huge departure from the usual shows where it's like, oh we forgot to put some salt, let's just dump it in the trash. I quite enjoyed it. It is a lot of fun. It’s definitely got the most diverse cast of competitors from all the cooking shows that we've seen so far.

I just think that they have these rules that they don't always follow through. Like, they reiterate in every episode that you should use as many leftovers as you can, but nobody really gets penalized for it. The judges are also really lenient with the competitors. I mean, there's an episode where the judges pretty much eat three different kinds of raw egg, because none of the contestants cooked it properly. That should be an immediate fail, but somehow, that isn't.

Aside from that, the gimmick for ‘Takeout Takedown’? I just don't know. I feel like there's so much work put in to adorn this fridge, according to some kind of theme that we can't see. Us, as the audience, will get one glimpse of some pictures on the fridge or some magnets and that's it. So have they done so much hard work?

Also, with the set—I do love the judge's table, which is three takeaway boxes. It's so cute. But the rest of it? Why is there a giant milk carton there? I don't get it. I feel like they've done a lot of hard work but it's really lost in the execution. And the main host, while she’s great and fun, I just don't get why she keeps singing at the end of each episode. I understand that it may be her schtick but it is just so uncomfortable to watch. So yeah, there's a lot of gimmicks in this series. It is a cute little watch, but I think it needs to be pared down. Lots of editing.

Ron: I agree with all of those points. I do love the set. I love the huge Chinese takeaway box, but it's just there for them to stand in while the final judging is taking place. I feel that there's plenty of room for adding interactive elements, they just haven't done it yet. I'd like to know whether this was actually shot during the pandemic because it seems like we've got a kind of pared down version of whatever they were actually hoping for. But it's fun, nonetheless.

And I do like the diversity of the competitors. And I feel like the technical aspect of how they're transforming the meals was probably the best part of each episode. I do think that they could tone down some of the conversations. We don't need that much sound. We really just want to watch them make the food.

Mon: Yeah, I hope there's another season coming up.

Ron: Though, I am surprised that we need to be talking about not throwing leftovers away. Is that a thing?

Mon: Apparently it is, since this concept is there.

Ron: I'm shocked!

Ron: We've also been participating in our local library’s reading challenge for the year. There are lots of different categories and some of them are driving me a little bit nuts. But one category that I'm glad to say I've managed to complete was ‘somebody else's favorite book’. And I think I may have just found my favorite book. One of our librarians suggested Snapdragon by Kat Leyh. I thought, why not give it a shot? I wasn't quite sure what to expect with this graphic novel, but what I got was some of the best writing I have seen this year.

Snapdragon follows a youngish teenager, the titular Snapdragon. She's looking for the witch in her town, but the witch turns out to be quite different from what she expects. And eventually she starts working with the witch, and it opens up a whole new world for her from the past, the present, and the future. Snapdragon learns so much about herself, her family, and about people in general.

This book is sweet. It is delightfully sweet. It made me smile, and kind of gave me the warm and fuzzies. There were some really emotional moments, as well, which I felt really deeply, but it just made the sweet moments even more powerful. There are queer characters; there's lots of diversity. This is the kind of book that I'm glad I'm getting to read now, but man, I would have killed to have got this book when I was a kid. It was really, really good.

If you can get your hands on it, and it is available in libraries, do read it. It was such a good, warm, full-hearted read.

Mon: Now I can't wait to read that!

Mon: So, like every other comic book fan on the planet, we are diligently watching WandaVision. So, in preparation for this show, I decided to deep dive into some Vision and Scarlet Witch comics.

Here's what I've been reading in the run up to WandaVision. Avengers: Vision and the Scarlet Witch, Avengers: Vision and the Scarlet Witch: A Year in the Life, Avengers: Disassembled and House of M.

These are all varied takes on these two characters. The first two Avengers collections are from the 80s. So, the writing is very different from what you will be used to in the comics that you read now.

As you can imagine, back in the 80s, it was very copy heavy, because the text would be describing the world, it would be describing the thoughts of the characters. Half the time the dialogue was the action that the character was taking, instead of leaving it to the reader's imagination. We also have to take into account that even in the 80s, the medium of comics as a storytelling tool was quite different, which is why the approach to how you told the story was very verbose.

So, going into Avengers: Vision and the Scarlet Witch, and Avengers: Vision and the Scarlet Witch: A Year in the Life, take into account that there is a lot of turgid writing that you have to go through. It is a slog. Also, there are a lot of asides and subplots to do with other characters which are atrocious. Oh my god, especially Avengers: Vision and the Scarlet Witch. It's an experience.

A lot of the first part of the book has to deal with Mantis and Moondragon and their history of becoming these magical creatures. And the only reason they're in here is because at one point Mantis was making moves on Vision, and that's when he realized that there was only one woman in this world for him, that was the Scarlet Witch. That one moment—which is, by the way not in this book, it is just alluded to in this book—that is the reason why Mantis is playing such a huge role in these pages. And you're like, ‘why?’ I'd rather just read about Vision and Scarlet Witch, but no. It's a lot to take in and it becomes so obvious that the writers are desperately trying to pad up the page count by putting in all these other subplots.

When you read these two collections back-to-back, you actually won't see much of a difference in the art style, but the writing, definitely. Bill Mantlo, who wrote the first collection, and Steve Englehart, who wrote the second one, have completely different approaches to the two characters.

Essentially, both books are about the love story between Vision and Scarlet Witch. It’s very cute. They are so besotted with each other and they really see each other as human beings—as people—whereas everybody else looks at them like oddities.

Vision being a synthezoid and having a mechanical voice, he just never seems to fit in. Scarlet Witch, for loving Vision and being a magical mutant, also doesn't fit in, but they've found each other, and they stick by each other. And it's adorable. It really is adorable.

With Bill Mantlo’s work, it's very action heavy. With Steve Englehart he purposely wanted to make a domestic drama. He decided to move away from the regular themes of bigotry that was a part of X-Men comics. He seemed to want to write more of an optimistic vibe. But also, he really wanted to delve into the domestic life of Scarlet Witch and Vision. And honestly, a A Year in the Life is so much better for it.

The soap opera part really works. Like, I dig it! I'm not even joking, I'm not the kind of person who is into soap operas, but it really worked in this book. In fact, every time they moved away and there was some action, I was like ‘no, please!’, because the domestic drama is so compelling.

And it's within this universe where people are married to Inhumans who live on the moon. People believe that some superhero is their father, turns out he isn't. In fact, their father is a supervillain. One man seems to find not only a brother, but he finds a mother, and he has another brother who is trying to kill him. It's amazing. It is really a lot of fun.

Just keep in mind that when you're using these older books, Scarlet Witch doesn't do very much. She has minimal page time. She's a damsel in distress a lot, but A Year in the Life has these moments where she will suddenly use her powers to save the day, and it’s great.

And in A Year in the Life, along with all this other soap opera drama, Vision and Scarlet Witch not only get married but they also decided to start a family. And it delves into how their life revolves around this new change.

You know what I like about it? They’re so happy to be starting a family. It's not like there's a lot of strife or ‘oh my god!’. No, none of that. Vision is really happy. Scarlet Witch is really excited. It’s really cute.

So imagine going from all this lovey-dovey drama on to Avengers: Disassembled, which is all action, all pessimism, all darkness and bleakness. Let's just think about the title—Avengers: Disassembled. Just ponder that for a second.

So, this book and House of M are both written by Brian Michael Bendis. I read them in the wrong order, which, in a way, did me a favor because House of M is not half as accomplished as Disassembled.

For the most part, Disassembled seemed to be just action. The Avengers are having the worst day of their lives—every possible bad guy seems to have returned from the dead, or has come back in droves. They are being kicked when they are down and then kicked again. What is going on? They do not know, they do not understand. And then suddenly the ball drops, and they cannot believe what is happening to them and who's behind it all.

Somehow, this book gets these weird emotional beats so right. I was just gobsmacked. There is this one character death that is less than a page, but it really made me stop. It t actually made me wonder why more comics don't have this kind of heft when creating these game changing moments. But I won't get into too much, don't want to spoil it for you in case you haven't read it.

This book precedes House of M. That deals with the fallout of what has occurred within this timeline. The concept of House of M is brilliant. Reading it so many years later, I can really get behind what they were trying to do. The execution, on the other hand, is very flawed.

When you have a character like Scarlet Witch, who can wield so much power, and you insist on making her emotionally unstable, mentally unstable and really under the thumb of either her brother, or her father, it doesn't make for the best kind of read.

The moment people try and examine alternate realities, or fantasy worlds, it has to make some modicum of sense. It needs to be plausible.

I feel like with X-Men comics, this is often an issue. There was a time when X-Men: Age of Apocalypse took place—and I’m not saying that was the most accomplished book in the world—but I can imagine what it was like to go straight from reading your X-Men, and then the very next issue, they are unrecognizable versions of themselves.

There have been so many attempts after that, to create a world which is about the X-Men, but not placed in this world. It is a fantasy, it is somebody else’s version of perfection, of reaching the ideal goal, and House of M really tries hard to create this alternate, fantasy world, but it's so silly that it doesn't make sense.

And the best part of this book takes place in the last part of the last act, and that's it. It ends. So, to find out the replications of what happened here, you need to go and find yet another collection. It’s a bit frustrating.

Ron: But the question is, has it given you a better understanding of what we can expect in WandaVision.

Mon: I feel like there are a lot of elements of these books, and probably a whole load of other books, which are informing how WandaVision is creating its own world. What I will say is that it seems like the creators of WandaVision are doing their best not to fall into the trap of recreating any of these, especially not House of M. What I like about comic book adaptations, especially the ones that we've had in the MCU, they've taken these comics, they've taken the central concepts and premises of these properties that we love, and really run with it and made them something better.

I feel like WandaVision is trying to do the same thing. We know that Wanda is super powerful, and we can see just how powerful she is in every episode of the show, but how unstable is she? Is she unstable at all? And can we understand this character, despite any of her actions.

That's one of the things that I feel like House of M may not have tried hard enough to do—to make her sympathetic. In Disassembled, they did do that with the central bad guy in that book, they tried to humanize them, they try to understand them. So, I think the show will do the same thing, but it is its own beast.

But I feel like a lot of people have addressed the fact that in the MCU, Wanda and Vision don't have that much screen time. Their love story doesn't come across as that epic because people who are watching only the films may not understand the volume of history that comes with creating these characters, to bring their love story to life.

You and I, of course, have read off it and read some of the comics. When you read some of these collections in total, you really get it. You feel that sense of devotion, of longing, of understanding each other, and the TV show is really coasting off of that knowledge.

Even if you haven't read these books page by page, just your understanding of how committed these two characters were to each other, and how challenging it is that, in the comics, they constantly were torn apart. It gives you a new understanding when you go into watching the show.

Ron: That's quite a lot of dedication to the craft, Mon.

Mon: Thank you. I should be commended for reading those.

Ron: It sounds like quite the exercise!

Ron: Well, that's what we've been doing this month. What have you been busy with? We'd love to hear from you.

You can find us on Twitter @Stereo_Geeks. Or send us an email [email protected]. We hope you enjoyed this episode. And see you next week!

Mon: The Stereo Geeks logo was created using Canva. The music for our podcast comes courtesy Audionautix.

[Continuum by Audionautix plays]

Transcription by Otter.ai, Ron, and Mon.

#X-men #scarlet witch #vision #wanda maximoff #wandavision #kipo and the age of wonderbeasts #netflix #snapdragon #podcast #stereo geeks #house of x #house of m #avengers #vision and scarlet witch #powers of x #best leftovers ever

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backstorywithdanalewis · 4 years ago

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Doping in Sport Back Story with Dana Lewis podcast https://www.buzzsprout.com/1016881/7762780

Speaker 1: (00:00) I have let them down. I have met my country down and I have let myself down. Did you ever take banned substances to enhance your cycling performance? Yes. Yes or no. Was one of those banned substances EPO? Yes. Did you ever blood dope or use blood transfusions to enhance your cycling performance? Yes. Dana Lewis -- Host: (00:32) Hi everyone. And welcome to backstory. I'm Dana Lewis. Oh, how the mighty have fallen. The first one you heard was American track and field star Marion Jones who won three gold medals and two bronze medals at the 2000 summer Olympics in Sydney, Australia, but was later stripped of her metals after admitting to steroid use. And she lied to investigators. So it was jailed for six months. Some never admitted like seven time winner of the tour de France. Lance Armstrong. He denied doping for years was finally cornered with undeniable evidence in came clean, but not before he attacked the world. Anti-doping authority, chief Richard pound saying lbs allegations of doping in cycling and against him was just the latest in a long history of ethical transgressions and violations of athletes rights by Mr palette. But Armstrong was proven to be a cheater and lbs. Integrity is an official determined to root out. Dana Lewis -- Host: (01:34) Cheating grew in stature. Now I covered five Olympics, four different news organizations, and along with the glory of victory and the flag waving and gold medals, where the scandals that every games in the scandals in between the games as athletes were spot checked and found to be cheating with performance enhancing drugs and always in the background, driving the movement to clean up sport was Canadian. Richard pound on this backstory, we hear from the man who first drove the drug cleanup effort in the international Olympic committee, and then formed and guided the world. Anti-doping authority that governed sports around the world to make cheaters pay. And most importantly, most importantly, protect the athletes who want to compete clean. Richard pound has just retired. All right, Richard William Dunkin pound is a Canadian swimming champion, a lawyer, a prominent spokesman for ethics in sport. And he was the first president of the world anti-doping authority and vice-president of the IOC, the international Olympic committee. And he joins us from Montreal. Hi Richard. All right, today, I'm good. I'm very, I'm very happy to see you. I haven't seen you in person, I think since 2008 and the Beijing Olympics, but we've Dana Lewis -- Host: (03:00) Talked since then on some of the scandals in sport, there've been many Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (03:04) I'm afraid. So in 2005, Dana Lewis -- Host: (03:07) I didn't realize that time magazine named you. One of the world's 100 most influential people and they wrote pound. It's an appropriate surname for the head of the world anti-doping agency. Then again. So it would be harass, rebuke, schooled, and generally makes a pain in the of himself. Although the latter would look awkward on a business card. What was that flattery? Were you happy to get that? Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (03:31) Oh, well, you know, time magazine has its style. Why Dana Lewis -- Host: (03:35) Do people cheat? That's the first question I want to ask Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (03:37) You. They want to win and they don't really care how they win. And they don't realize that when they cheat, they don't really win. But, uh, anyway, it's, uh, it seems to be a feature of the human psyche. Dana Lewis -- Host: (03:50) I mean, you were a great sports and are a great sports enthusiast. You were a competitor. And then suddenly you found yourself being channeled towards policing doping in sport. Is that a turn you want it to take? Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (04:05) Well, it's certainly one that I never anticipated. And, and when it, when it happened, uh, I remember as the world anti-doping agency was being created, uh, the IOC president of the day said, uh, Leeson, Deek, uh, you must be the president of this. And I said, but wait, I don't know anything about doping. I I'm, you know, I've spent all my time in the IOC doing television negotiations and the marketing program. And I said, beside, for which I'm half dead from the salt Lake city investigation. And he said he was unmoved. So I finally said, all right, well, how about if the dealers, when it's up and running in a year or so? I can get a yes, yes, yes. What year was that? They lie. It took me nine years to get it. Yeah. Dana Lewis -- Host: (04:55) So that was one Antonio Samaranch right, right. I mean, you were for, I mean, it's worth mentioning that you were the first guy to negotiate television rights with the, the IOC and the, and the networks, which you became billions and billions of dollars. Uh, you probably had no idea what you were getting into then, but you certainly had no idea what you're getting into when it came to doping in sport. And why did you do that? I mean, why did you pursue and continue on, because there must have been many moments where people came to you and said, you're selling the name of this athlete, your dragging down track and field or cycling or whatever the sport scandal of the day was. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (05:38) I guess, to some degree, it probably goes back to being a competitor. And I mean, as a competitor, I never liked to lose. Sometimes you, you, you make, I was a sprinter. So if you make any kind of mistake, you're toast, uh, you got to get everything right. And, um, sometimes, you know, and prepared well enough and whatever it may be, you could live with that. Didn't like it that you try to learn from, from losing, but I never liked being cheated. And I don't, I don't think that that's a, an additional risk that that athletes should have to take. So one of, one of the deals in sport is, is you don't take certain substances. Uh, you don't use certain techniques. That's part of the rules. And, and if you cheat that that's not good. So I was always, I think the calculus seemed to me fairly easy either you follow the rules or you didn't. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (06:31) And if you didn't, I mean, there are all kinds of rationalizations, you know, Oh, I'm just trying to level the playing field because there are other people that are cheating and so forth and say, no, no, you're not. You're actually, you're actually trying to win. And if you find out that I'm taking five milligrams of whatever, this prohibited substances, you don't take five. You don't want to tie with me, you're going to take 10 because you want to win. And I find that you're taking 10. So I take 20 and this sort of escalates to the point where the dosages become toxic or, or either lethal. So there's a health issue in it. And then there's the, the ethical issue, which is that you promised to follow the rules that we all agreed on, and you just made a unilateral decision, um, to breach them that that's not right. And you should, there should be consequences to that. Dana Lewis -- Host: (07:26) How much blame do you put on the people around them, the coaches, the people who are promoting sport for money? Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (07:33) I think a lot that, you know, far more than half the, the blame goes there. I mean, some of the athletes that aren't even of full age when they're, when they're put on these programs, I mean, if you remember that the East German programs back in the sixties and seventies, it was the things they were doing to these young athletes, particularly female athletes, because the steroids were much more effective on them than they were on the men. It would make your, if you were an ethicist, it would make your hair stand on end. Yeah. Dana Lewis -- Host: (08:03) And that's the era you grew up in because when you were competing, uh, the East Germans, that program, and then the Soviet program was finally at its height, uh, without talking about Sochi yet. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (08:15) Well, it actually, when I was in the Olympics in 1960, there were no rules, no sport rules. There may have been, you know, general principles of law with respect to certain drugs, but I mean, not anabolic steroids or things like that. Uh, so, you know, in, in Rome we knew that the weightlifters had been doing this for years. So we knew that, that it had spread to the, the, the weight of events in track and field, like ShotPut discus and so forth, and everyone was very open about it. And they said, what are you taking? And how much of this? Oh, well, you know, is it, you know, what does it just say, look at me, I'm, I, my figures have changed from sort of just sort of beefy guys to athletes who are re cut and say, look at me. I met my body shape has changed. I'm covered with acne. And I'm dealing with terminal rage all the time. And my testicles are the size of jelly beans, but can I ever throw the shot much better than I used to instead of 60 feet, I'm throwing at 70, Dana Lewis -- Host: (09:22) The cliche, those big Hungarian shot putters or a weightlifter. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (09:26) Yeah. Not just Hungarian, but there were a lot of them. And, and, and so, uh, what happened and the startup we're getting to where we are today is, is during the cycling road race in Rome, those same games, uh, Danny cyclist died in part because of taking a whole bunch of that amines and the, the old guys on the IOC, they were army guys in those days said, Oh, you know, you're not supposed to come to the Olympics and die because the drugs supposed to come and have fun. So I formed a medical commission with a, uh, a doping and biochemistry sub commission. And, and the subcommittee was sent, figured out what the athletes are taking. And then, you know, which, which things in particular, uh, are dangerous as well as performance enhancing. And then let's put together a list. So they, they put together a list. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (10:20) And, um, you know, in fairly short order, given an international context and the IOC started testing at the Olympics in 1968 in Grenache and have tested it ever since. And that was the only testing that was really being done at the time. And the international federations filled with their own organizational testosterone. Don't where w w during our events, we'll do the testing. They didn't do any, but the IOC was not allowed to test other than during the Olympic games. And it took years and years and years for the IOC pushing and pushing and pushing to get international federations to do testing, which they did reluctantly. Um, but only at the world championships, you had this system where, you know, for three years and 11 months out of every four years, the only testing really being done was by the IOC at the games. And it's fine, race, state drugs. You can, you can detect, but if you've been on a steroid program and you you're smart enough to get off it, couple of months before the Olympics, all the metabolites are out of your system, but you've got the benefit of a steroid program. And so the next step was to get out of competition testing out of competition, Dana Lewis -- Host: (11:37) Testing at random testing during the year, Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (11:40) Or even targeted, you know, the, the, the cyclist who's coming 310, the Peleton who cares, but what you, what you were finding was that it was, it was the best athletes that were those at the highest target, Dana Lewis -- Host: (11:55) Sorry to interrupt. Then what, how did that morph then from the IOC doing the testing during the games, and then out of, out of the games, when people were training during the year world competition, how did that morph that into the world anti-doping authority, which became very independent of the Olympic movement. I mean, you're part of it in terms of the testing, administering the testing, but in terms of the water became very independent and legally independent. Correct. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (12:19) Right. And that was the whole, the whole purpose of it, because what gave rise to the immediate cause was the Festina scandal during the tour de France in 1998, while in France, there were French laws about possession of some of these things on the French police found athletes and officials on the Festina team with industrial quantities of doping substances and the equipment to administer it and so on. And they were arrested, um, and put in jail. And that was a suddenly, you know, if it, if it doesn't happen in Europe, in a very Eurocentric Olympic movement, it doesn't really happen. So that's why the Ben Johnson thing, 10 years earlier in Seoul, it will, I was on the edge of the world somewhere. And it wasn't real because it was a, you know, a, it wasn't a European, it was in Korea, Dana Lewis -- Host: (13:10) Ben Johnson, Canadian sprinter who tested positive at the school Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (13:15) And Ben Johnson. Yeah. Oh, no, no. Sorry. I was a little naive on that. I thought, well, maybe the message will get out to people around the world that, you know, at the Olympic games, no matter who you are, no matter what extraordinary performance you've put in, even if you're in the number one sport in the Olympics, if you cheat, you you'll, you'll be disqualified as a deterrent. I thought that was going to work. So it wasn't to say until you get to Europe in a, in a sport really popular in Europe and the blue ribbon event in that sport, the tour de France, that all of a sudden, some of these presidents said, Ooh, if it can happen to cycling and it's number one event, it might happen to my sport. So they started to think of it that, and the IOC executive board, I was on the executive board. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (14:04) At that point, we had kind of an emergency meeting because unfortunately our president made a, one of these things that come back to bite you, he's sitting in his hotel room in Lozan watching the arrests and stuff of the Festina officials, team members. And he sort of shook his head. He says, you know, for me, that's not doping. Doping is only if you can prove that it's dangerous to the health of an athlete. Wow. Who was that? This was sandwich. That was summer. And, and so, uh, w which is a perfectly defensible philosophical position, if you like, other than it was 180 degrees from what he'd been saying as president of the IOC, and he's forgotten that he's got a Spanish journalist in his room, who's been given this rare opportunity to spend a day with one Samaranch and see how he runs the world of sport. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (14:55) And he can't believe for these hearings. He's taking notes. There were no, no strictures on him. Then in the next day, the LPs are 11 Guardia headline, IOC, IOC president, not serious about doping, that sort of thing. It was a media firestorm, which led to an emergency meeting of the IOC executive board. So where we get to Lausanne. And so he says, well, what are we going to do? And we're all looking at each other saying, we, we were here because what you did anyway, he already knew that. So our conclusion was, look, you can't depend on cycling or, or, or any other sport to make sure its athletes are clean. You can't depend on France or Germany or Canada to make sure its athletes are clean. And the IOC itself is too weak to control the Olympic movement. So, uh, what, what do we need that that's, that's the diagnosis, the pregnant, we need an independent international anti-doping organization that is not controlled by any particular stakeholder. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (16:01) And I said, well, you know, as, as it happens, we have kind of a model that could be adapted, uh, for such an organization, which is the court of arbitration for sport, which the IOC had created. I think back in 1984, and it was made up of equal representation from IOC international sports, federations, national Olympic committees, and Olympic athletes said, no, that's not going to be enough here because we need the world of doping is a little more specialized. But if we added two blocks to that one being governments, and they said, why governments? Well, you know, in sport, we know who the athletes are. We know what they're likely to be taking. We know who the bad coaches and so on are, we don't want any power to Andrew premises and sees evidence of, of doping. We don't have the power to compel somebody to give evidence under oath. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (16:58) Governments have those kind of powers. Okay. And then I said, we need a six block. We need a major event organizer. We need somebody with coaching experience. We need to get somebody from the pharma industry to be, to help us with the, you know, the technical stuff. So that resonated. And they said, all right, well, let's see if we can do something. And we have to have, uh, uh, we need a world conference on doping because we got to get all of these stakeholders to come together and agree that an independent anti-doping organization is the thing to do. And so we called for, uh, the first conference in, I think it was late January of the following year, 1999. And we're proceeding towards this first world conference in. And of course, then, then the do-do hit the fan, the salt Lake city kind of improper conduct a investigation, which was another firestorm. And I remember San Francisco, maybe we shouldn't have this conference right now in the middle of all this. And I said, look, we'll, we'll get out of salt Lake somehow, but doping is too important. We've got it. We've got to get hold of this because there's a certain momentum right now. Okay. So anyway, sure enough, Dana Lewis -- Host: (18:10) They had, they had to be seen to be acting right. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (18:13) [inaudible] yeah. Yeah. Well, if you're going to assert yourself to be the leader of the Olympic movement, you've got to, from time to time, you got to lead, not just follow up. And so sure enough, if you had 15 minutes to speak at this conference, the first five were spent telling the IOC what a dreadful organization it was and how the sooner it would vanish from the face of the earth, the better everything would be. But then they got down to focusing on this and, and, uh, from out of this conference came a resolution that we establish what has now become what, and, um, and that's when, you know, Samaranch, you, you must be the president of this. And we get to the first conference, uh, which I'm sharing. Cause I'm now the president of water. We get this, this consensus, uh, with some difficulty because the governments through a complete collective tantrum and they said, you know, we're going to, this is outrageous. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (19:12) We're going to leave. We're, we're leaving the conference. If we don't have more than 50% of the control in the hands of governments, we're out of here. And I said, hold on, let's have a coffee break. I went to Sam ranch said, uh, they don't like my, my Mo my organic gram, um, told you we should never have had this conference. I said, no, actually their idea is better than mine. He said, what do you mean? He said, well, listen, if they have 50%, because they're not going to get more than 50%, give them 50% control. They're actually going to have to do something, not just sit on the side and carpet, the sports movement. And secondly, if they have 50% of the control, they can well pay 50% of the costs go back and talk to them. So I'm looking back to this room, seizing with 35 or 40 sports ministers. I say, you don't like my model. No, you hate it. You really insist on 50%. Yes. I said, you've got it. You got it. Dana Lewis -- Host: (20:11) You own it. You own it now. And you're in the soup with us. Right? Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (20:14) You got it. And I said, no, it's a much better idea. I said, there are only, only two things. This is a serious problem. We don't have the luxury of you guys proceeding at your normal glacial pace to get anything done. We've got to be in the field January 1st of 2000 to start testing before then go to the Sydney games. Okay. And I must say to give credit where credit is due, they got it done by November. I said, the second thing is, if you got 50% of the control, you've got to absorb 50 of the costs. Oh, well, you've never seen such hand-wringing your life, all these governments arguing, but their share of what would have been $4 million. We are our governments, but the other one, 150 governments at the time. And I said, come on. And they said, well, why? And I said, I'll tell you what, we'll pay them. We, the ISA will pay the first two years, but you buy the start a year three, you've got, you've got to find a way to pay your share. And again, I must say, give credit where credit is due by 2000, 2001, they had a continental formula. Dana Lewis -- Host: (21:29) This is really clear for people to understand. I mean, the court of arbitration of sport became the judge and the jury and WADA, the world anti-doping authority was really the prosecutor, the organization that went and investigated and collected forensic sampling and presented it to the court. Is that right? Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (21:46) Partly this is pretty primitive at this stage. So again, I'll give you an example. We got this setup and where we start early 2000 to do other competition testing only on the summer sports. Cause we were focusing on, on Sydney and we found that an overwhelming percentage of the international sports federations did not even have rules that allowed them to test their athletes out of a competition, a bombshell for me. And I suddenly, I was very naive. I thought they, all the things they were saying were true, you know, that they believe in, in clean sport and all that sort of stuff done. They just total lip service. So we spent the first number of months helping them put in place rules that allowed them to do the out of competition testing. That that's, that was the state of, of things. According to arbitration for sport cast was never part of water. It simply was the, the recourse that was available. If somebody did not think he or she should have been handed consequences for doping and you, so you could file an appeal. And that was decided on, on legal grounds. Dana Lewis -- Host: (22:59) So now there's a controversy with funding, right? Because the United States, as I understand it has, they've been harsh critics of WADA. And what has been harsh critic of the Americans arguing that what they should not sign up to funding water anymore, or where, what is the main crux of the argument? Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (23:20) The main crux is, is, um, the United States suddenly deciding that that all of the problems in the world are waters, not their own. And, um, part of the foreign policy on the previous administration was, you know, it was okay to do an indoor hammer throw whenever you didn't like what was going on. And so one of the things they said, well, we're not going to pay our agreed upon share of the water costs. And we submit to you, you can't do that. They said, yes, we can. And if you criticize it, we will regard that as a direct attack on the United States of America, it doesn't really follow because you've just made an unprovoked attack on water by refusing to pay your share of, uh, of, uh, the money you promise to pay. This was something you agreed to as, Dana Lewis -- Host: (24:08) What is the point of control Dick? Like what do they want to control? Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (24:12) Uh, it's not really clear what they want. That's part of the problem. They just say what it needs to be reformed. Okay. How do you want it to reform? Well, you've got to have different governance. Okay. Um, what are your suggestions? They don't have any, you gotta have more athletes on what we've already got athletes on water. They have the same representation that the 50 or 60 international sports federations have, and that the now 206 national Olympic committees have, uh, it would not be fair to have any more. So you already left, Dana Lewis -- Host: (24:46) You were quoted as saying, we'll have to wait and see, but at some point, if the U S becomes a rogue state, I think we will start looking at whether the games in Los Angeles should proceed. Um, if they are not performing their obligations under the convention. And they're trying to destabilize not only the structure, but funding of water, that's not acceptable behavior. And maybe the IOC, as I understand, you went on to see maybe the ILC system America, they can't compete. They become a rogue. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (25:14) Part of the deal in, in, in, in sort of within the Olympic movement is, is you have to be compliant with the world anti-doping code. One of the measures you would have to attract attention would be to make failure, to pay your share of the agreed upon costs, the equivalent of an anti-doping rule violation. And if you have an anti-doping rule violation, you're no longer eligible to participate in international sport, not just, not just the Olympic games. So that, they're the way that, you know, the Russia will be unable to participate as Russia for the next couple of years. So that's one of the things you can do. What I hope is that this, this rogue state mentality fades into the background, which is where, you know, part of the deal was that it was like a United nations in one country. One vote us says, no, no, no, we're paying we're paying far more than, than 80 years. So we should have more votes, but that's, that's not the deal. Well, that's, uh, that's the condition. We have this NATO to tell you the truth. Well, it, it, uh, it does. It's been, uh, it's been festering for a while. We think a lot of it emanates from the United States and he'd opened agency Russia. Dana Lewis -- Host: (26:33) Yeah. I mean, people don't realize that in 2014, Russia ran a state sponsored doping operation where essentially they were preparing cocktails, giving them to smuggling urine out of back door of the facility where these urine samples were supposed to be held secure. So there you have a state that is supposed to be helping water, make sure its athletes are clean. Um, and they're just completely upending the entire, the entire regime of anti-doping. I mean, and, and it goes on, right? I mean, they are still banned because even after there were whistleblowers, after the revelations were made as to what they were doing with the FSB, the security services that were helping them, they were then supposed to come clean on sampling. And then they didn't do that either. So they are perpetually banned, Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (27:30) Well, not perpetually, but, but certainly they're there as a national anti-doping organization is their, their lab has been suspended. It's an evolving story here, but, uh, and until 2015, all our stakeholders international federations, the IOC, everybody, they did not give water the power to conduct investigations. We could rely on other investigations. We couldn't conduct our own. Think about that. There are a lot of folks didn't want an independent international anti-doping agency looking over their shoulder in, in many sports were very cozy arrangements regarding dumping. So the first one regarding Russia came, uh, uh, about, as a result of the, the step on offs, expos a on German television, it at the end of 2014. So the Dana Lewis -- Host: (28:25) Fled to the United States later on, and, and w one of them was a coach and one of them was, uh, an athlete and they, they laid out exactly what was going on in Sochi. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (28:35) Right. I remember, I mean, they had tried to give, give water some of this information, but we couldn't do anything with it because we weren't allowed to investigate. So I chaired the first investigation was limited to Russia only, and to athletics, track and field only. So we reported on that at the end of, uh, 2015 saying the system, as it affected track and field was totally corrupt, but there were two, the two loose ends that we didn't have, and they weren't really necessary for our report on it. One was the FSB, FSB is present regularly in the Moscow laboratory. And we said, well, what is the Russian state interest in stale, urine provided by athletes? That was a kind of a, does not compete. The other was reports of athletes coming with Brown paper bags with, with containers of urine in and depositing them various sports, say, what's that all about? Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (29:37) Is this, is this kind of secret testing to see what their clearance times might be on a steroid program or what they didn't didn't know, but we made the observations, the subsequent, okay. Uh, investigation by Richard McLaren put those ends together. The FSB was there because they were involved in the substitution of samples given by Russians, in competition, pouring that stuff out, replacing it with clean urine, the paper bag stuff, which had been frozen and kept for just this kind of an occasion where the Russian athlete was tested in competition and would have been bounced except for the switching of the urine. Dana Lewis -- Host: (30:20) So they, they cannot participate in Tokyo. Um, so years decades, after you started all of this, isn't it a bit dark to you? That probably what was a few athletes cheating or a few hundred, or maybe a few thousand throughout the whole Olympic movement with their individual coaches became almost like where you began back in East Germany, not you began, but where all of this controversy began with the pharma labs in East Germany, state sponsored. I mean, it seems like we haven't gone forward. We've kind of gone where, Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (30:54) Well, w one of the things we've done is we've, we've turned over the rocks and that people have at least a better idea of this stuff is going on and that it's not here. And there, you know, in cycling, they used to say, elephant is clean. And then despite themselves, they found pause, Oh, well, uh, that was an outlier, uh, that person's gone now, the pelotons clean. And, you know, it just went case-by-case like that. So, but there's no, it it's, it's certainly double digits in terms of, uh, a percentage and we're, we're getting better at it. And, and we've got, uh, you know, you got out of competition tests, you've got, uh, you can find very small quantities, so you can get athletes that are coming off a program. And there's very little traces left of the stuff they've been taking, but now we can, we can find, we keep Olympic samples for 10 years now. And so as, as, as the knowledge of science and the knowledge of what's been being used expands because of Dana Lewis -- Host: (32:00) No, it's a cat and mouse game where they use masking agents and different things, and they figure you're testing. We'll never find this, but if you hold it for 10 years, that's a long way. And then you go back and strip metals from methods. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (32:11) Absolutely. And that's in a sense that, you know, if you think about it, that's probably a more devastating outcome for athletes. And then being caught on the competition day in Santa, they got me, it's a fair cop and I'm out of here, but you know, 10 years later you've finished your, your career. You've got a family, you've got a job, you have a reputation in your country, and you're exposed as that being all false. It's, you know, you support Dana Lewis -- Host: (32:40) Calls for, do you export calls for tougher punishments, like jail time for athletes and S you know, some of the American debate is that they, they just don't suppress doping, but they rid sport of it with, you know, very tough measures, including jailing. I mean, Marion Jones went, the sprinter went to jail, but not very many people go to jail. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (33:00) Well, she went to jail, not for doping. She went to jail for lying and lying to the FBI. And I, you know, basically I philosophically, if you cheat, I don't want to play with you. I just, you know, go away, but to go to jail, no, if you're part of the organization of it, then you're supplying steroids and you're, you're submerging sport, generally as a, as an official, that's a different thing. Dana Lewis -- Host: (33:27) If you were just a very quickly bullet point, tell me which sports you think you've really brought under control and made progress in. And what are the ones that are going to be the tough ones in the future? What would they be? Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (33:38) Well, certainly weightlifting has proven to be very tough and, you know, drug use is, is endemic, uh, track and field has got a big problem. Still. I don't think site cycling has solved its problem, uh, swimming as an increasing problem. It's, it's, it's, there's, there's no sport where there's, you are without risk Dana Lewis -- Host: (34:00) China. You know, there are calls for boycott in their upcoming games. Sorry, what year is it? It's a 20, 22. Is the winter. Yeah. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (34:07) Mean basically, basically less than a year from now. Dana Lewis -- Host: (34:10) Yeah. Yeah, because of Tokyo was pushed back year. Tokyo looks like it may go forward. We'll have to wait and see what this pandemic, but on China, I remember reading and we sort of end where we began as I, when I read your book, uh, right before I did an interview with you in Beijing, um, you, you were not a big fan of the boycotts that took place, uh, with the Soviet union. And then the Soviets then boycott at four years later in salt Lake city and Los Angeles, Los Angeles. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (34:42) No, I, I don't think, uh, I don't, first of all, I don't think they're effective. Secondly, if you, if you fast forward to Beijing, it's, it's being, it's a little bit like your government saying, we're so mad at you, China for suppressing the human rights and civil rights of, of some groups of your citizens, that you know what we're going to do to show you how annoyed we are. We're going to take away all the rights of our own athletes and put them metaphorically in jail at home to show you what dreadful people you are. Do you really think that's going to bring about conduct change in, in China? No, of course it's not. And we have a, a view, however, aspirational, it may be that the sport can help create a better world. You can, with the Olympic games, you can show that it is possible. Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (35:36) Even if it's only a two week or one month bubble for 206 countries to live together, play together, work together, have common goals, you know, free of discrimination, all that sort of stuff. It is possible. And that's, I I've always thought that's one of the reasons why to go back to doping doping case at the Olympics is, is regardless, is so serious. Cause it, it destroys that aspirational goal. Now people are in professional sports, nobody cares. These people are regarded as gladiators and what they do to get ready for their, their sport. Then it's up to them. This is it's entertainment solely, but this, this aspirational international side of things is, is I think some good can come from it and it's not going to be, there's no silver bullet and it's not going to be, uh, you know, a sudden gestalt, but bit by bit going persisting with that view and insisting on, you know, doping controls and all of them, things that go with it, it, it can do something Dana Lewis -- Host: (36:46) Great to talk to you. And, uh, I've always been a big fan of yours. I think you you've been a, a great lightning rod for rod, for ethics and morality and sport, and you've never pulled any punches. And, you know, you're known for being forthright and, uh, and shooting straight from the hip and great for, you know, good for you. This is great to talk Richard Pound Fmr. IOC/WADA: (37:04) To you. Thanks very much. Dana Lewis -- Host: (37:11) And that's our backstory on Richard pound and water. The world anti-doping authority. This struggle to clean up sports as you already know is endless, but I guess it's like street crime. You catch the bad guys and gals make them pay, but there's always another waiting in the shadows, ready to do anything to steal. In this case, it's a stolen victory from another athlete who should have meddled and was squeezed out by a cheater. If you like backstory sheriff, and I've now started a newsletter on what is news and what I think is worth reading because a lot of people are confused as to what news sources to tap into today. That newsletter is on Dana Lewis dot sub stack.com. And please sign up to this podcast if you haven't already. And thanks for listening, I'll talk to you again.

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