#look I know the doylist reason for this obviously

[snarky-wallflower]

me, a preteen, devouring the PJO series super fast: heck yeah! slay those monsters! fight Luke, snark at the gods! Percy and Annabeth are so cool!

me now, watching the new trailer: …babies. babies, oh my god they’re babies, they’re so SMALL! Who thought it was a good idea to give these children swords!!

[see-arcane]

I know it's a day late, but I'm thinking about the possible Watsonian reasons for Renfield simply not addressing Jonathan at all, even to say he does not know him, whether it'd be a truth or lie. We know the Doylist reason is that Stoker flubbed the meeting in the initial version and Jonathan only got tucked into the visiting group after the fact and so he didn't get a blurb where Renfield does his 'ooh look how much I know about you~' bit.

But hey, Jonathan's there, technically. Renfield obviously sees him. Yet he goes unmentioned. Let's examine the possibilities:

A) Even reduced and dehumanized as he is in his cell, it's a slight flex of class. Mina he did not know when she arrived. He outright guessed that she might be the girl Jack proposed to--therefore assuming she was someone of good background. Jonathan is a surprise to him, a blank space among these well-known higher class gentlemen. Being a blank space, it could be assumed he is the lesser/nobody among the group. (Which, in terms of the social and societal ladders, he is.) So, in the most uncharitable light, the silent treatment for Jonathan is a little bit of leftover toff peeking through as Renfield puts on the former-upper class peacock routine. I personally don't buy it, but the possibility is there.

B) Renfield simply does not have a PowerPoint presentation locked and loaded about the guy who Jack and his asylum have known for barely three days. Doesn't have so much as a gossip flashcard on him. Embarrassing. Move on, don't make eye contact.

C) Renfield is shown to have some kind of heightened Sense when it comes to Dracula's presence. Whether that's the Count himself or things saturated with his essence (ala the dirt boxes), somehow Renfield is extremely aware of all things Dracula, perhaps as his own wisp of psychic talent. And that means when Jonathan Harker walked into the asylum, he got a strong twitch. When he walks into the cell, it's like a mallet to the brain.

Because here is someone who spent two solid months having Dracula's presence inflicted on him every single night. Even with a few months behind him, there's no scrubbing that out. Renfield Knows this young man was in Dracula's jaws, literally and metaphorically, for most of a season. And he's wearing a wedding ring. Like Mina's. Dots connect.

Confronted with this, and with the betrayal trapped under his usurped tongue, and with the full knowledge of what a monster he's sold himself to and what that monster must have inflicted on this earnest and haunted man just shy of being a boy, what can he say? What must he want to say to this member of the group more than any other, even dear Dr. Seward?

("He has been here! He can enter this building because I invited him! He has come to her, he will come again, he knows what she has done against him, what you have done in slipping him, what you are to each other! You know his teeth, you know what is coming! Both of you must run before it is too late!")

I imagine all this and more came sprinting up his throat the instant he recognized Jonathan Harker for who he was, even if he had no name for him. He sensed it. And with that urge, that impulse to address Jonathan directly in a deluge--Dracula slams his mouth shut and turns him firmly away from Mr. Harker entirely.

Only the others can get your song and dance, pet lunatic. Not a word to the solicitor. Do not even look at him.

[ectoimp]

Ya know what I find interesting. There are almost no "Lewis lives/is resurrected" fics. Fics where he doesnt die, just swap him dying for someone else dying.

If you go to the "lewis lives" tag on ao3 there are 11 works. All except 2 are actually precave, lewis hasnt died yet or the kind where someone else died instead.

and there are 2 resurrection fics and of those one still involves someone else dying (arthur killing himself specifically)

And yeah, Lewis' death is the inciting incident to the series, but I certainly dont think there are no stories to tell there. I think there could be very interesting character drama there. Especially when you dont have the amnesia thing to make it so no one has to deal with the aftermath

With no ghost induced amnesia, Vivi has to deal with the fact that being the leader, Arthur getting hurt was on her. Lewis getting hurt/almost getting hurt is on her. They went cave exploring with no safety gear. In street clothes (chucks for hiking in a wet cave??). They didnt even have a flashlight. And its seems that no one knew they were going into this cave (since it seems like Lewis' corpse is still there) So they broke every basic rule of caving safety https://www.fs.usda.gov/visit/know-before-you-go/cave-safety

Like even if you dont blame her, I think she would blame herself. And its another thing I dont think I saw explored much. I'd see it get mentioned but usually it would immediately get brushed aside, usually by one of the boys.

But with how unsafe there were being....Lewis could have just died from slipping. No possession required. (obviously the doylist reason is because it would be a pain to design whole new outfits for one scene that was added last minute. They would look super cute in little themed caving outfits tho.)

This started out with just me thinking about "Lewis lives" But now its more about how I kinda want more Vivi angst......

Imagine if Lewis knew Arthur was possessed. If Arthur hadnt been clear he didnt want to go in the cave. Imagine if Lewis blamed Vivi.

[aspiringwarriorlibrarian]

I know the Doylist reason why the dark saber has the most uncomfortable hilt a sword could have is that it was designed in TCW (already a fairly blocky styled show) to be visibly and clearly Mandalorian (who are heavily influenced by cubism), but when it comes to Watsonian reasons, I’ve come up with two explanations, both of which amuse me.

1) The hilt is meant to be wrapped, which would fit its chokuto inspiration and make for some interesting symbolism, because of course the Mandalorians who stole it are literally as well figuratively using the sword wrong. Of course they didn’t do the most basic research or have failed to upkeep it, because that’s what they did for the sword’s entire legacy, strip it of its meaning to make it into a cheap power play.

2) Tarre deliberately made it that way to make it the most clearly, obviously, obnoxiously Mandalorian lightsaber in existence so no one could look at it without seeing clearly what is is and what it represents. Doesn’t matter if it’s inefficient, in this house we commit to the bit and that’s just very Mandalorian of him.

[utilitycaster]

Idk how to articulate this but in regards to a lot of defense of certain elements of C3 being that they “make sense” in universe, (Ashton becoming indecisive, the party not knowing each other well because of the little passage of time, the party not having stakes in much of things,) it’s always very misguided because something can make sense in universe and still be a really bad writing decision. Especially if you’re trying to respond to an out of universe criticism with in universe logic.

Correct. I think there are two big problems with these arguments. The first, is as you said, the fact that these Doylist critiques (story poorly structure, party lacks investment) are being met with Watsonian defenses (makes sense for the party). We're saying "the party should have been given a reason for investment in the beginning."

The second is, and I've been reluctant to point this out because the bulk of hate I've gotten has been (largely false and frankly idiotic) claims of hypocrisy. But man is a lot of this hypocritical, the defense of Ashton specifically. Like, yes, Ashton is someone who's had a difficult life and frequently had very little power, so the fact that they do have power now isn't something they are used to. However, and this really is the even larger problem, just because a sentient being has a reason for feeling a certain way does not in fact mean that acting on it is excused from criticism. Ashton also learned he contained the shard of a titan only a few weeks ago; why aren't we granting the same "well, it's new, let them process" it to the party's fixation on avenging the titans? Why are we getting this from people who frequently treated Orym as "irrational" and bent on nothing but vengeance for deaths he'd carried for six years and had thought about extensively? Hey, Ludinus is acting from trauma! So is Liliana, according to a lot of these people. If acting from trauma is always valid, then criticism of any of these people is cut off. So clearly, what you do with that trauma matters!

You can feel any way about anything, but how you act matters, and time and time again, a huge number of Bells Hells and Campaign 3 fans have argued that actually it doesn't, and if you've ever had your choices curtailed your lack of agency means you are entitled to do whatever the fuck you want. It extends to themselves as well - doesn't matter if (for example) there's absolutely no indication that Gelvaan's issue with Imogen was homophobia or misogyny and in 118 episodes there hasn't been - if you feel like Imogen's experience is relatable to your real-world one where those were factors then obviously your feelings are right so who cares about like, the facts of the situation! You're new to the campaign! You can't be EXPECTED to LOOK THINGS UP and THINK.

You know what I realized, upon answering this question: I don't know if Ludinus realized that the impact of reaching out to Predathos would be the ruin of Molaesmyr; I don't think he was terribly worried about consequences but I do think it's fair to say "he might have not realized how badly this could go, and was surprised as any by the result". Just someone following a path because they were hurt and traumatized and not thinking things through. We keep talking about how Bells Hells might be remembered as Vespin Chloras, and they might be remembered as such, but Vespin was an arrogant but genuinely competent and even, arguably, well-intentioned person with a clear plan that was ultimately a gross underestimate. I think they're more likely to be just fuck-ups in the dark who could cause mass destruction because they cared far, far more about the hurt they'd received than the world around them.

[dickgraysonsptsd]

(warning: long post + taking random comments too seriously)

i have complicated feelings about variations of "dick misinterprets bruce and invents criticism from him when there is none actually present" or "dick is too sensitive to perceived rejection from bruce" or "bruce obviously loves dick but for some reason dick thinks bruce hates him" etc as standalone statements because like. yes of course dick carries responsibility for his own emotional responses to bruce in the way that we all carry responsibility for our own emotional responses. the only thing you can control in life is yourself, and so on

but also dick has a lifetime of bruce acting in ways that imo justify dick fearing bruce's reactions to dick's failures and imperfections:

(above, robin: year one #3, chuck dixon; nightwing [1996] #100, devin grayson; the new teen titans #55, marv wolfman)

in the "dick assumes bruce is going to criticize and/or reject him despite the literal exact opposite happening" story of all time, nightwing (1996) #12–15, dick takes every interaction with bruce to be a slight of some kind:

(above, nightwing [1996] #14, chuck dixon)

and in this arc bruce is not actually here to accuse dick of not being capable or to make dick prove himself again. bruce is really just here to support dick on a case! dick is jumping to conclusions and creating problems!

but he's jumping to conclusions because those conclusions are the next step in a well-worn path that dick and bruce have tread together over and over again: dick fails, bruce tells him "you should have been better" or "you're fired" or "i don't want to hear excuses" or "i don't need you," and dick strives as hard as he can to prove himself to bruce.

(above, nightwing [1996] #101, "nightwing: year one," chuck dixon)

and dick knows that he and bruce and do this, and he knows he's responsible for his part in it. dick calls bruce a few hours later to apologize, and ends up talking to alfred about it:

(above, nightwing [1996] #14, chuck dixon)

by the way, bruce hears that dick's been wrongfully arrested in nightwing: the target (2001) and comes straight to his apartment to criticize him ("look what you've brought down on yourself"), which is exactly what dick expected of him in the aforementioned nightwing (1996) #12–15:

(above, nightwing: the target [2001], chuck dixon)

...ultimately validating dick's fear that fucking up (in this case, "letting" himself be framed for murder) means failing bruce means bruce showing up to tell him it's all his fault.

when dick preemptively winds himself up like he does in nightwing (1996) #12–15, he's flinching away from an expectation of an emotional blow that isn't going to come down this time.

and dick doesn't know it's not going to come down this time because bruce doesn't tell him. that blow just... doesn't happen, and bruce instead affirms and praises him, shocking dick:

it is ultimately a communication problem between them, yes—

(above, nightwing [1995], #1 & #4, dennis o'neill)

—but it's a communication problem with a long history of dick experiencing bruce as someone with inconsistent responses, who might tell dick "your only option is x" or "i will never forgive you for x" about the same action taken on different days.

(above, dick at a low point emotionally saves others at the cost of his own life, just like bruce trained him to, nightwing [1996] #102, "nightwing: year one," chuck dixon)

(above, bruce tells dick he can't forgive him for losing sight of the value of his own life after dick at a low point emotionally nearly dies saving others, nightwing [1996] #117, devin grayson)

and the doylist explanation for this is that post-crisis bruce and dick are written by a wide range of writers with different approaches to their characters and their relationship:

(above, the original, happier post-crisis firing story in batman #408, max collins; chuck dixon's robin: year one and nightwing: year one handle bruce firing dick as a much darker and more fraught event)

(above, dick showing that he already assumed bruce planned to reject him in his earliest days as robin [indicating that bruce isn't the origin of this fear] & a happier early days interaction between dick and bruce in legends of the dark knight #149–153, "grimm," j.m. dematteis)

but if you take even a handful of comics into account, it's clear that dick has textual reasons for believing bruce is always mentally mapping out his flaws and always ready to reject him for a perceived failure.

even in a comic that i would consider more critical of dick's instinct to assume rejection from bruce (teen titans spotlight #14), the positive note it ends on is still reliant on dick "never know[ing] how [bruce] feels about me."

and dick never knowing how bruce feels about him is a big problem. we as readers get to see bruce's internal thoughts. we understand him. we know that he loves dick more than anything and that even when he lashes out at dick he usually does it out of a devastating fear of losing him. but dick doesn't know this and bruce almost never tells him, and doesn't correct him when dick makes assumptions out loud:

(above, nightwing [1995] #1, dennis o'neill)

basicallyyyyy i think it's heartily supported by many comics that dick has experienced a pattern of criticism and rejection from bruce that he consciously or unconsciously expects to keep happening 😂🤣... and they are looping foreverrrr in their vicious cycle of not communicating, assuming things of each other, getting freaked out about it, and generally just being dumbasses

[liesmyth]

did john decide which of his friends would be the necromancer and which would be the cavs when he brought them back from the dead, or was that random?

I wish we knew for sure! John's friends ending up 50/50 adepts vs. non-necromancers is obviously one of TM's premises and was done for doylistic reasons first and foremost, but I don't think we have enough elements to conclusively interpret it as intentional in-universe.

Putting aside any kind of authorial intentions, this is what we know:

» The rate of necromancers as part of the population hovers around 30%. John's core group being 50% adepts is way off from that, and could point to manipulation, but also we're working with a very small sample size. Think about how it's very possible to get head five times in a row when flipping coins; probabilities are much less accurate on a smaller scale. I don't believe it's out of the realm of possibilities that a group of 10 people had exactly 5 necromancers in it.

» Harrow's birth. The Reverend Parents made sure she would be a necromancer by manipulating the embryo with thanergy. It's clearly not a known practice among the Houses at large, and John calls it "a sort of Resurrection" — implying that he could be able to do the same with thalergy. However, this doesn't confirm that he actually DID.

In the same conversation, John says, "This was all different before we discovered the scientific principles," which I think is also worth noting. The fact that he understands NOW how you could get an embryo to grow into a necromancer doesn't mean that he had that knowledge at the time of the Resurrection. It also doesn't mean that the same identical process would apply to making formerly-dead-people into necromancers as they got brought back to life.

It could very well be that necromancy was a generalised side-effect of the Resurrection that affected some people more than others; or it could be that John DID do something different when bringing back some people that conferred them necromantic aptitude. Even if it's the latter, I don't think we can take for granted that 1) it was intentional and 2) he fully knew what the side effects would be.

» Ulysses and Titania. Counterpoint! It's also worth noting that John's "test cases" turned out to be one (1) adept and one (1) non-adept. Like I said above, this could still be a random bi-product of the Resurrection... but given Ulysses and Titania's whole everything, their dichotomy reeks of control group. They are a big point in favour of the "John did it on purpose" column.

Still: I still don't think we can tell for sure that John knew from the moment of Resurrection that he was giving some people death powers, and how that'd turn out in the long run. Like I said above, he could have done something different when resurrecting Ulysses vs. Titania, but it doesn't mean that he knew what would happen.

(Obviously, this argument only makes sense if we assume that Ulysses and Titania were among the very first batch of resurrected. I personally think they were, but obviously it's not confirmed)

» The inner circle. From NtN

I could only trust the inner circle. My scientists, my engineer, my detective, my lawyer, my artist, my nun, my hedge fund manager. My diehards. The ones keeping the lights on.

Putting aside the fact that Lyctors exist the way they are because Tamsyn needed them to exist, and looking at the Canaan House necro/cav pairings from John's point of view: why not give ALL his friends magical powers? That's something I struggle to wrap my head around, for about half a dozen different reasons.

Mind, I don't think John picking and choosing who gets to be a necromancer is that far-fetched, but from a #character point I find it less likely than the alternative (he didn't do it on purpose but turned it to his own advantage). IF it turns out to be canon, I'd be really curious about what the watsonian reasoning for it, beyond "this needed to happen."

Most meta posts I've seen that take for granted John picked and chose his future necromancers ascribe him a level of foresight, knowledge, and long-term planning that I simply don't think he'd have had at the time (not to mention the mental lucidity). To quote HtN John again, "[he] had never been God" before. I truly think he was winging it at least 60% of the time.

[kvetchinglyneurotic]

Obviously it's mainly for Doylist reasons that there's a disconnect between how Claudia looks (like she's in her late teens/early 20s) and how she's treated by the characters who don't know she's a vampire (like a child): it would be a really tough role for an actual 14-year-old to play, not to mention casting a real teenager would make it very obvious that the immortal, un-aging vampires are, in fact, aging. The fact that other characters call her "little girl" and ask where her parents are might partly be a holdover from the books, when she was turned into a vampire at a much younger age, but it also lets the audience know that in-universe, she's supposed to be a fairly young-looking 14.

That being said, I think the dissonance of seeing other characters treat a clearly grown woman like she's much younger helps to convey what that experience is like for Claudia. Her brain development is frozen at 14, but she sees herself as an adult and in a lot of ways she has the life experience to back that up, and so being treated like a kid feels wrong to her the same way seeing people react to Bailey Bass and Delainey Hayles like they're 10 years old feels weird to the audience.

It also makes some sense in-universe: we never actually see Claudia the way we actually see Louis and Armand; we just see the version of her that lives in Louis and Armand's memories and that Daniel reconstructs from her diaries. All of them know that she wasn't really a child, so it makes sense that the version of her that they picture would look a little older.

[pigtailedgirl]

Ray Vecchio Undercover My HeadCanon on WHY???

Ray leaving. That thing that hurts my heart. You get why the show in Doylist ran with this idea. It seems so fun and perfect on surface. With replacement a nightmare of the character linchpin to Fraser in Chicago. Reasons that don't need exploring at this juncture was Ray Vecchio! There is no logical or emotional way Ray would leave, unless had to. Killing would tone shift and be devastating. Straight actor switch has no story to build. But man, the never explaining the why in canon or really dealing with the weight of it hangs around. Nothing makes sense. A lot of guess work for a Watsonian fit.

@quasilogical put out their idea. Very interesting.

I wanna ramble bout mine or where I go most times.

AND it's I pretend Ray was pegged by the Feds for this even pre-Fraser. This is why he's on the Feds like Ford's radar, and the whole going down double entrapment angle and IA continuing interest.

Much like Ray K, who I think was only selected for name similarity last minute, hence his confusion. and because he was easy sell at low point and a easy place-holder if people are looking for the name to stay consistent and all that, Ray V starts the series in the same loner boat and is easy mark to sign up an operation for.

I think the Feds were building this project for a long time.

But the question is not of Due South having people who look alike, cause it recurs, getting to be someone else. Maybe Armando was like the thug, cop, cab driver extras. Maybe he was Ray's long lost family mob connected bro. Maybe he never existed before Ray. It doesn't matter that Ray has a look alike.

Questions important is... When and why was this Armando alike was a sure out and Ray in? Which canon gives absolutely nothing for because seasons 1 and 2 had no build for this obviously and seasons 3 and 4 never bothered to backfill.

But the question of why or how post-Fraser you could get Ray to go? How Fraser would let it happen and stay and not run to get him or leave? There is your meat of continuity.

What I think happens is in steps. That for me always hinges on three layers.

The Victoria incident. The shooting and the unresolved issue being do Fraser and Ray giving conflicting accounts of who had the gun in the final chase? If Fraser said he took it off Victoria, and Ray says he saw it in her hands. UH-OH

Wiggle room for a wedge against Ray. Does Fraser think Ray is lying and his dealing with why.

Then Juliet is Bleeding happens. It's another bad shoot-out for Ray. It's also a power vacuum in the Mob set up in the area as up and comer Sorrento goes down, and so does Zuko likely from the business. Ray and Fraser have deaths like Louis, Irene, and guilts to live with.

Finally there is the Rankin Incident. Where Rankin claimed police brutality on Ray and less extent Huey and they got forced to cut him loose rather than Ray revealing to anyone he'd beaten him earlier and was tailing him for almost raping Frannie. So Ray takes the rap but not revealing the reason.

If we can infer from the show talk that it's been sometime between season 2 and 3, as there is cases like Greta Garbo that says time passage, there was sometime between JIB and the end of season 2, and approx. 90 days between Ray's undercover and the body of Rankin getting discovered; We can think long-term planning and short windows to implement again for Feds/

I think too it's important that A Likely Story references the family Langoustini having connection with Tucci and Chicago, not only Vegas.

My theory goes they tried to rope Ray in post VS. Had a mobster in Armando working/watched to do family building and maybe on the Feds inside the whole time.

Ray said no but wasn't able to confront or turn it down completely because of Fraser. Both not talking about their issues with justice/duty versus personal and the gun thing. But Fraser didn't know. And Ray is both guilty and angry at it all.

Then Juliet is Bleeding sinks Ray and makes the offer start to realize as inevitable. The Feds make it plain to everyone, even Fraser, we have means now to make this project a go. The Langoustini's can affect Chicago. The Feds move to install Armando as a bigger player in the chaos. Ray moves to an apartment as seen in Red, White, and Blue. Fraser and Ray are having major undercurrent vibes of picking understanding and loving someone, versus projection and ignoring feelings for your duties. Personal loves and morals or the profession. It's make your choices.

And that makes me feel so bad for Fraser but makes him clearer to me. Ray, who is going through old relationships closing up wounds and wants, wants Fraser to express feeling for him. Or someone! To let it out at least, even if it's with or to Thatcher or someone else. Fraser is caught between hard places of Ray should do this for justice in the abstract but really Fraser doesn't want him to personally or to lose him friend or otherwise.

So Fraser retreats to Mountie persona. Season 3 opens to runs to a vacation in Canada to pretend just like old times, I'm okay. While Ray's emotions undo him with the Frannie incident and the Feds strike, before Fraser and Ray can even come to terms.

Hence the season 3/4 weird brothers betrayals and unknowns of people coming through and the hatred of corrupt cop leadership, personal vengeance and mob activity on everyone's plate.

Essentially Fraser knew Ray was going but got blind-sided in the moment and in how to cope and how to justify it. Ray too on how Fraser sees him or feels in light of. Ray couldn't say no and betray that sense of having to do right that Fraser installed over personal, even if this is the worst fucking way and timing. Even if it's not justice and a lot of personal fail guilt like JIB mixed in, he can't come out and emotionally admit that failure to Fraser thinking Fraser doesn't put that above the job. So he got to go do the job. Fraser can't pursue the why cause fear of bad answers so stays protection mode Chicago, driving himself mad wondering, and trying to get over it, get over his issues, and getting to know new Ray with new issues and be helpful and bond.

So when Fraser does see Ray again; OMG chase, reunite, but all this tension and drama is still on the table for them. Of I don't know who you are or I am anymore and I know what we don't want, the wacky hurtful adventures of emotional and physical danger and mistrust, but they no longer have a read on trusting themselves, knowing what the other wants from each other and are scared to let out those feelings lest hurt each other. Why Ray went undercover? Cause I loved you dummy and thought you wouldn't like me if I did the wrong thing. Why Fraser can't trust Ray isn't the bad guy who didn't do the wrong things? Cause you love him dummy, and that feeling and belief you have to put it out there and above the image to not be your dad and to get it back and not lose it.

Then of course, more shootings, F/V staples, and Fraser learns the exact wrong thing and trauma retreats. Runs part 2. Ray retreats to Florida too, cause pretending to be not Ray sounds like it works better. Damn.

Until they work it out in the next episode of head canon addition lol.

[horizon-verizon]

https://www.tumblr.com/evebestthinker/751366825102770176/the-way-he-looks-at-her-as-if-no-one-else?source=share

It's funny that their relationship is so romanticized. Whether by showrunners or even people in general.

Corlys and Rhaenys in the original material have a bigger age difference than Daemyra, yet no one talks about grooming.

Rhaenys, from what I remember, certainly chose Corlys, but Rhaenyra also chose Daemon and everyone prefers to say that she was groomed to want her sexy old uncle... 🙄

The fact is that, apart from this age difference, Corlys only wanted Rhaenys to be queen for her own person and the name of her house, let's be realistic. And in Fire and Blood, it was actually Laenor and not Rhaenys who was actually proposed to the throne with Viserys.

Unlike Daemon, Corlys has also always shown a genuine interest in the throne, whether in HOTD or Fire and Blood. This guy fights for power and always goes against his wife's wishes in general.

Yet they are supposedly a great relationship ? A great marriage of love ? A couple goal ? People's double standards are astounding to me.

I will add that Corlys, aged 60 in Fire and Blood, is having sex, from what I remember, with a girl under 16 or in that age range it seems to me. In any case, a close age that Rhaenys was when he married her at the time, showing that he has a type of age range for women, unlike Daemon who in Fire and Blood was with women of varying ages.

So basically the directors of HOTD said to themselves that Corlys and Rhaenys would make a superb love story ? WTF seriously ? They keep talking about Daemyra's age difference but obviously it's only a problem when it's them and not the others.

Actually, what I'm trying to say is that... most of the criticisms leveled at Daemon : Bad father, bad husbands, way too old for his ultimate wife, power-hungry, throne-seeking, loving the girls are rather young... Well it's actually Corlys who ticks all the boxes. Show and or Book.

Disclaimer: This is to note the discrepancy that fandom does when it tries to bring up age differences, how biased people are towards Daemon. You can look to la-pheacienne's notes about GRRM and age differences HERE, where we talk abt Doylist vs Watsonian readings of GRRM's storytelling and over age diff creepiness vs what story the dude is telling in-world.

It mimics how people will say "Targs are colonizers" and then they ignore what the Westerosi did to the giants and twstsote/children of the forest. There's a clear bias and lack of reading being done, because yeah I agree. Like, Corlys is an impressive man, but that has little to do with this conversation topic. (For all who don't know, Corlys was 37 when 16-yr old Rhaenys chose him as her husband; Rhaenyra was born in 97, Daemon in 81; RhaneysxCorlys has a 21 diff, Daemyra has a 16 diff)

In the show, it makes way less sense as to why Rhaenys & Corlys are together. I did a TikTok abt it, but here it is:

Rhaenys has constantly said that she considers a "good" leader AND [good] person to be one who goes out of their way to avoid violence, war, or great conflicts. Someone who takes measures to make sure their own actions do not lead to conflicts that may hurt even more than themselves. Even at the cost of one's own political advantages. She values what HotD has implied is "self-restraint" & defends Rhaenyra from Corlys' saying everything is her fault [specifically by reasoning that out of all the men who are there, Rhaenyra is the one who is trying to not go to war or any battle]. She is also supposed to care very much for her daughter, Laena, and her own grandchildren through her. Supposedly above Corlys' interests (episodes 6-7). Compare this to Corlys' self-interest evidenced by his pushing for a Velaryon-marriage through his 12 year old daughter & keeping Lucerys as his heir DESPITE the would-have-been-clear discontent from Vaemond abt the Driftmark succession PLUS how the Velaryon boys wete not his grandkids biologically AND Rhaenys advis[ing] him to name [their] granddaughters instead. With every value and action these two take for & against their family and against the other's desires….For what the HotD writers & whoever responsible wrote for these two…. Why do we believe that this ship is one of the best ones --or even makes logical sense-- to earn the reputation of being one of the best during this part of ASoIaF history?! The [show]relationship doesn't stand up on its own without the looks & performances of its actors. It also gets away with the nonsensical dynamic in two other things:

the constant defense of "two canons"

the many time jumps that remove any possibility for us or the writers to show us how these two actually like each other & continue to like each other

Once again, Daemon was never a good person, but he is also not what is depicted in HotD and grooming does not = DV. they are not the same, thus you do not have to include DV with grooming by saying it "eventually" happens with groomers. Espe when GRRM has a track record for just stating abuse when it happens (Jaehaerys with Alysanne, her pushed to keep giving birth; Robert Baratheon with Cersei):

[sylvanas-girlkisser]

Anyone remember how in Mass Effect 2 it's revealed that Miranda hooks up with random men from dating apps, with the explicit purpose of getting pregnant and never seeing them again?

The Doylist explanation for this is obviously that this is Mass Effect and the writers either didn't know, or didn't think about artificial insermination. Like Miri babe, you can entirely skip paying for tinder gold and just use your exorbitant salary as an unethical scientist/assassin working for the proud boys, to have a licensed professional get you pregnant in the sort of strictly business relationship you're looking for.

However, for a Watsonian explanation, I think it's much more funny to imagine Miranda just has a huge breeding kink she refuses to acknowledge as such; and the reason you never see her drink is because she knows she will start rambling about how every woman secretly desires to spend her whole life pregnant and make everyone uncomfortable.

[allyriadayne]

something that i just noticed is how aegon is dressed like alicent in the teaser? the green with the gold and the bulky chain of order. even the dragon embrodery on his chest with the two dragons facing away from one another is something we saw on alicent's targaryen dresses last season.

i know you didn't ask for an essay anon, but this is one of my favorite topics ksjdkasd 😭. YES I NOTICED TOO! aegon dresses (and will dress) a lot like alicent. i have this little fantasy that she picks out all of his outfits because he will not bother at all......

but anywayyyy. aegon's outfit in the s2 trailer do have callbacks to alicent, solidifying his position as the "green king". as you say he looks a lot like her with the bulky chain and the color palette esp with the alicent of ep 9 in her coronation outfit: the huge seven-pointed star vs the big ass chain and all the gold-green details.

(big chains around their necks hmm.......might mean something i don't know what.....)

i actually thought aegon's chain was the same one as the one he used in the coronation but it's not! the one from ep 9 is a lot smaller and looks a lot like the ones otto usually wears (alicent picked up from her father's rooms because it might make aegon look better, the eyebags bloodshot eyes are not a look!).

(looking just like his papa grandfather!)

and you are right! i didn't remember this dress of alicent's but they do have the gold dragon embroidered (sunfyre my beloved). i like that they signify different and the same things to both of them. for aegon it might mean a sort of coming of age, coming to the self he was always meant to be whether he liked it or not, and even then honoring (possibly?!?) his only friend in the process. while for alicent it means the same, to fit in what she's supposed to be, the targaryen queen, but obviously never completely fitting in....there's a reason her dragon dresses look so awkward on her. it's only when she starts wearing green that she can dress how she actually likes.

(dragons meeting in the middle, dragons looking in opposite directions. WE GET IT CONDAL)

i like that in aegon wearing green with the dragons in full display is a sort of culmination of alicent's role and "victory". here is her son, the goal her father impressed upon her, wearing her colors (because green is her color now, not the hightower's) and showing with pride he's the legitimate targaryen king (that aegon is a tyrant and a drunk is another issue).

i'm obsessed with the doylist decision of making aegon wear a bigger crown and chain the same way alicent's huge star is saying how much she relies on faith, and also that he is the only one of her children who STILL wears green when the rest have outgrown the color when they are shown as adults. i'm super excited to see the rest of the costumes!

[thatgirlonstage]

What if Twilight and Thorn Princess met each other but due to a combination of disguises/not actually being able to see each other for whatever reason, Loid and Yor don’t, you know, realize That’s Their Spouse. But because they are used to each other and are kind of subconsciously comfortable with each other (and perhaps with a bit of competence kink & That’s My Archnemesis thrill) there’s some… chemistry… there.

Shenanigans ensue where there’s some sort of allies-of-necessity situation that involves a lot of ridiculous happenstances that prevent them from actually seeing each other, so it’s just Twilight and Thorn Princess on a mission constantly going sideways and Definitely Not Flirting over the short range walkies they’re using to communicate. And they stop whatever guy decided to blow up a hospital or something that made them work together, and they do a whole “I’ll let you walk away this once” thing where they finally have the chance to see each other’s faces and choose not to look out of respect for the help they gave each other. They both go home, Loid and Yor are obliviously surprised to meet each other in the hallway on the way back to their apartment, and life continues.

Except, yknow, of course it happens again.

It’s rarely the two of them actually work together in the same place at the same time — if only bc, from the Doylist perspective, it would start to stretch suspension of disbelief to the breaking point for them to never catch a glimpse of each other, and Yor doesn’t habitually bother to hide her face — but there start being these overlaps in their goals that mean one of them might pick up a mission where the other leaves off, they start occasionally trading information, they both start seeing cracks in their own country’s methods and goals and start cooperating to save more lives overall.

And even though their conversations are always short, even though they haven’t even seen each other, oh boy does the chemistry keep racking up.

Until you have both Loid and Yor having a crisis because they’re emotionally cheating on their fake spouse with their spy/assassin arch enemy and it’s not like they can tell anyone that, but also they’re starting to feel dishonest in an icky way rather than a “this is my job and it’s necessary” way

There’s any number of wacky breakup/get together avenues you could take from there, obviously concluding in a reveal where they both see each other’s faces and immediately feel monumentally stupid and then save the world or something, I just think it would be both hot and very, very funny if they flirted in their Twilight and Thorn Princess personas

[thevalleyisjolly]

So I was rewatching the Ninth Doctor a while ago, and it occurred to me just how much the future regenerations were shaped by Nine’s decisions in Season 1.

(From a Watsonian perspective, of course.  From a Doylist perspective, there have been so many different writers and showrunners that it’s a wonder there’s any consistent characterization in this show at all)

Because Nine was a Doctor fresh out of the Time War, believing himself to be the last Time Lord, and even as he ran from what he did, in many ways, he ran back towards how things used to be.  Travelling the universe with their companions- but trying not to interfere, trying (and mostly failing) to just observe, repeating again and again that they’re just here to observe, not to break the laws of time.

As travelling time and space goes, it’s a pretty Time Lord way to do it.  No interference (or, as much non-interference as can be reasonably expected around the Doctor).  And entirely understandable - the Doctor has just made the decision to commit two genocides after a horrific war full of multiple genocides on both sides.  Taking up that mantle of authority again, of control over people’s lives, is a raw, open wound after The Moment.

Except then the S1 finale happens.  And Nine himself says it, horrified, “I did this.”  He went around, dipping in and out of events, trying to be just a tourist, never staying long enough to think about the consequences of his actions.  Meanwhile, the Dalek Emperor was able to take over the Earth for centuries, harvest humans, mutate them into Daleks, and eventually almost destroy the planet.  The irony in The Long Game (1x07) of the Doctor scolding the journalist and telling her to do her job and ask questions- later, do you think he asked himself what he might have found out, what he might have prevented if he’d done what he said?  Dug deeper, asked questions, didn’t take things at face value and just accept that things would sort themselves out?

The subsequent incarnations have often featured arrogance as a character flaw.  Most obviously with Ten and Eleven but Twelve and Thirteen have also had their moments.  They meddle, they assume authority, they shape events and manipulate people.  Think of that recurring theme in S2, characters such as Harriet Jones and Queen Victoria and Yvonne Hartman repeatedly challenging the Doctor for “assuming alien authority over the rights of man.”  They aren’t wrong!  The Doctor may have more head knowledge about the current emergency or about aliens in general, and they may be right about what to do in the situation at hand, but they are assuming an authority on behalf of (and often over) humans.

And for better or for worse, this is a character element that (at least from a Watsonian perspective) I think really emerged from Nine’s experiences.  The Ninth Doctor tried very hard to be just a traveller (oh, but what a very human, heartfelt traveller) and look what happened.  After that S1 finale, whether their decisions and actions have positive or negative consequences, whether it’s the right or wrong thing to do, the Doctor has to get involved.  Has to solve the mystery, has to take control of the situation, has to find the answers and satisfy their curiosity because the last time they left things alone, Earth and its people paid the price.

It is arrogance to assume this authority, this responsibility, to appoint themselves humanity’s guardian, the defender of Earth.  It does often lead to positive outcomes because the Doctor does know what they're doing a lot of the time, but it also has negative impacts as well, especially on the people around the Doctor.  And to be sure, Gallifreyan culture very much cultivated arrogance as a valued trait, the Doctor’s guilt isn’t the only place it comes from, but they sure as hell have a heavy conscience on their mind.

TL;DR Watch the Ninth Doctor.  Not only is Christopher Eccleston fantastic, but it lays the foundation for a lot of the Doctor’s subsequent character journey.

[bonefall]

while obviously the doylist answer to “why, after only two previous smitings with cats that seemingly did a lot more shit that starclan disliked before getting smited, did mudclaw get smited so comparatively quickly, when there are other cats who have done things comparable to mudclaw that did Not get smited” is “mudclaw got smited in the books + rule of cool”, i am curious to know if there is a watsonian explanation for why starclan looked at mudclaw and said “fuck that guy in particular [smites you]”

not because i think it Doesn’t make sense, it just seems like a huge escalation in comparison to ripplestar & darkstar, who did it feels like did *way* more stuff before starclan stepped in to get rid of them

Tensions were super high after, like, the forest got bulldozed and the Clan cats had to journey for a month!

But in StarClan's eyes, here's the list of what Mudclaw did;

Defied Tallstar’s will in appointing a deputy. They do not care that he had reasonable doubt, THEY know the truth and judge accordingly.

Defied THEIR judgement in this situation. He had the audacity to believe they would have given 9 lives to a liar. How dare he mock them by even suggesting Onewhisker would become leader if he were not Tallstar’s choice?!

He also committed the high crime of annoying them, by throwing a tantrum about not helping out if he isn't leader (as seen in winds of change) StarClan is an emotional entity and they are more unfair if they don't like you for an arbitrary reason

Worked with outsider Clan rebels for his goals, inviting insurgents into his Plan and plotting murder on someone who had done nothing wrong. This is one thing if it's to dethrone Brokenstar, but this??

ATTEMPTED MURDER, several deaths in his attack. Rainwhisker, Nightwing, and Vixenleap are 3 of the named ones so far who die in this skirmish. He is blamed for each death.

CHANGE FROM CANON: Mudclaw sabotaged a Muirburn. That is a neccesary technique for maintaining moorland and something WindClan was doing to manicure their new home. He let loose an uncontrolled wildfire on overgrown gorse and tinder, endangering innocents

(Though even if it was like canon where he was only attacking the night before Onewhisker's sacred ceremony, they would have been pissed at him for blasphemy)

They were so furious that the rain rolled in to extinguish the fire, and sending down a bolt of lightning was a bonus.

And he doesn't get to go to StarClan. A smite-death is a guaranteed ticket to cat hell

[skylights422]

New X-Men '97 tomorrow! I am very excited! But I also had meant to make more posts reviewing the first three episodes. It was going to be multiple posts over different topics, but I am short on time and organizational energy, so I am just gonna make two posts over the biggest topics: The Romance Drama, and The Plot. Romance drama first! It got Long, so it's under a cut. xD (And a quick disclaimer that any negative opinions on the canon writing of couples doesn't mean I dislike people for shipping any of it; I almost never ship anything personally just as a matter of personal preference, but am very much a Ship And Let Ship/Don't Like Don't Read kind of person)

First, I will just say that the Jean/Scott/Logan drama was...always the most boring and confusing part to me in the 90s show? I just didn't feel like they did enough to show why Wolverine was SO in love with her when it seemed like they never spent any time together normally or had any major bonding moments? So I felt like he was just pining based on appearance and the fact they were teammates, which...is fine I guess but not the sweeping, dramatic unrequited love it was always portrayed as.

(I mean Wolverine was so torn up about them getting married he REFUSED TO ATTEND and instead spent time trying to kill an illusion version of Scott in the Danger Room, that's. Very dramatic! And for what? Maybe they covered it a little bit in an episode I haven't re-watched yet but I remember Past Me at least not finding the explanation impressive enough lollll)

So, I'm not...super looking forward to more of it in this new show, but also expecting it since it was always such a feature. I'd rather not have Jean kinda date Logan just because she's mad at Scott and Logan wants to? But it won't shock me. By and large I have made peace with my dislike for that particular love triangle since I'm otherwise such a fan of both series. (And so far anyways Logan has been a little less weird about his unrequited feelings even if they're still pretty obvious)

THEN we have the Rogue and Magneto romance. This one I have had more mixed feelings on. My kneejerk reaction was confusion and dislike - I didn't know until I looked it up after the episode that they were together in the comics, and since they weren't in the previous show, it felt...really random. (Also I am just not much a fan of couples with large age gaps, obviously Rogue is an adult and can do what she wants, it's just not my cup of tea. Plus Rogue and Gambit is one of maybe, like...five? Couples in media? That I have any investment in AS a romantic couple lol, but mostly I was just not looking forward to more romantic drama in general since it's just not something I tend to enjoy much)

Now I have two opinions. One is simply that I am Over feeling bothered by it and just curious to see what they do with it, since Rogue and Magneto do have some compelling thematic reasons to have scenes together anyways. And Rogue and Gambit definitely COULD have a mature conversation about it, which would actually be pretty neat.

Now my main quibble is that it was introduced so suddenly, and with so little explanation. As a general rule, I do NOT consider 'it happened in the source material' to be a valid excuse for anything in an adaptation unless it also makes sense within the established lore/characterization/etc. of the adaptation itself. A Doylist explanation existing does not remove the need for a solid Watsonian one, and if there just...isn't a Watsonian explanation, then I feel it is lazy writing at best, actually terrible writing if done badly enough.

There's definitely still time for them to give some kind of flashback or explanation for Rogue and Magneto though! You can introduce new aspects to character's pasts, in general. So I am holding out my final opinion to see if they do that, and in what way.

On a smaller, technically still hypothetical note, next for romance drama we have: Morph crushing on Wolverine. I do agree that it's extremely possible, even likely, that Morph seeming Interested in Wolverine in this version is deliberate - I mainly say hypothetical because I have seen some VERY overtly queercoded stories/scenes/etc. be written genuinely by accident, and at this point I'm really not sure how it was intended (like, if it's meant to be anything bigger than the scene itself or not).

And once again, I have mixed feelings on it. On one hand, having an openly gay character in an X-Men cartoon is good! It's nice to see some diversity in orientation. And Morph makes sense since they are the closest to a blank slate as you can get with a pre-established character, only being in nine episodes total of the original series - very spread out ones, as well.

But well, there's two reasons I feel kind of egh about it. One is that nearly all the Established Duos that got a lot of attention in the original show were romantic ones, and as someone who is fundamentally more invested emotionally in non-romances, I really liked the thought of having a best friend duo to fixate on. (We do still have Magneto and Xavier but XAVIER IS DEAD RIGHT NOW SO IT ONLY HALF COUNTS)

The other is that it...would almost definitely be another unrequited crush. Which for one, is just drama that isn't interesting to me. But also I dunno if 'sad gay bravely accepts never getting with the love of their life' is amazing rep for...friendships OR gay people??? Like you could write it so that Morph is genuinely fine being 'just' friends, and maybe in an ideal world that would even kick Wolverine into considering he could maybe be More Normal About Jean. But I worry about their friendship falling apart or it being made out to be 'not enough' to Morph and ultimately just making everyone look bad (and also if they push too hard on the Sad Morph Angle I feel like it could just be another case of villainizing people for not returning affections which I just, REALLY HATE)

SO I'M ON EDGE ABOUT IT. Possibly they won't do much with the concept at all, which I'd frankly prefer. Possibly they'll find a way to write the one-sided romance that is actually considerate to both sides and doesn't destroy their friendship. Possibly they'll even introduce other gay couples somewhere in the show so the rep for it isn't all riding on Morph's shoulders! But I am also very aware how easy it would be to do this wrong. SO WE'LL SEE.