#long life for jyl

[wangxianficfinder]

In the mood for...

Aug 31st

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1. Just wondering if there is a fic out there where jwy wakes up during the core transfer to realise what is going on and refuses the surgery?

There are quite a few No Core Transfer fics but has anyone read or written something like this? Would love for Jwy to know how much he is loved without wwx ripping himself apart for it

Please and thank you 💝💝💝 @theladypeartree

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2. Hello, thank you for this opportunity! Does anyone know of any fics where the characters look or act unusually young for their age due to cultivation/golden core strength? Like, they are treated as children longer because they have an overall longer life expectancy? Or fics which explore how cultivation affects the life expectancies of cultivators in general? Thank you so much!

🔒the inconstancy of moths by spookykingdomstarlight (T, 9k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Reincarnation, Moth Spirit WWX, Character Death, Angst with a Happy Ending, Pining)

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3. the world needs more canon compliant/divergent sub/bottom lwj. please provide with your favorites, thank you 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

A Narrow Bridge by FrameofMind, Jo Lasalle (Jo_Lasalle) (E, 700k, WangXian, Time Travel Fix-It, Canon Divergence, Slow Burn, Getting Together, First Time, Pining while fucking, Burial Mounds Settlement Days, Angst with a Happy Ending, CQL Verse, almost everybody lives/almost nobody dies, epistolary-ish, canon-ish side pairings, radishes) I can't recall for sure as it's been a while since I read it, but I think this fic has LWJ bottoming

🔒Blessed is The New Moon by Anonymous (E, 9k, WangXian, Bad Sex, Good Sex, Angst with a Happy Ending, Angst and Hurt/Comfort, Romance, Porn with Feelings) Nie Huaisang gifts the boys some lube as a joke which leads to a revelation. A fair amount of angst for the premise but HEA.

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4. Currently desperately craving some really really long wangxian! Over 100k please, canon dynamics preferred, and the bit that's hardest to filter for: no extensive positive inclusion of Jiang Cheng. I'm more open to cr!era stuff with him as a secondary character but adult JC particularly I would like mostly off-screen. @strinak

Just go forward like you mean it by tawaen (M, 101k, WangXian, WWX & WN &WQ, WWX & JYL, NHS & WWX, Canon Divergence, WWx does not attend the Wen indoctrination, WWX saves Lotus Pier, Inventor WWX, No Golden Core Transfer, Sect Leader JYL, JC Has No Golden Core, Bad Parents JFM & YZY, Not JC Friendly, but he gets a happier ending than canon so don’t look here for bashing)

Dispersing Clouds by dreamingofcake (E, 283k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Genius WWX, Inventor WWX, Not Jiang Family Friendly, Abusive YZY, Canonical Child Abuse, Hurt/Comfort, Slow Burn, Eventual Sex, Implied/Referenced Self-Harm (Background Character), Background Character Deaths, child deaths, Canon JC, Good Uncle LQR, Accidental Baby Acquisition, Cultivation Sect Politics, Homophobia, Heteronormativity, Feelings Realization, WWX is Not Oblivious)

🧡 Stunted, Starving Juvenility by TomatenMark (E, 859k, WangXian, WIP, Fix-it of sorts, Talisman master WWX, Not JFM Friendly, Study Arc, Getting together, Fluff and Angst, Engagement) Not sure if this one hits the 'no positive JC portrayal' criteria. He's in the early chapters as it starts during CRSA & he does get whacked with a clue-by-four a couple of times so he's sliiiightly less entitled, but he's still a cranky jerk & after the guest disciples leave he barely appears (I also haven't read the last 3 chapters, set during SSC, so no idea on his portrayal in those)

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5. hello! for the next ITMF, fics where WWX adopts XY and shows him what kindness is? Kind of like those YillingWei AUs where XY becomes WWX's disciple (please rec some lesser known ones if you know of any, I feel like I've read all of the popular ones already), thank you!!

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6. I'm in a mood for some good Apocalypse AUs. I like happy endings but since it's apocalypses it might not be feasible so perhaps no brutal endings, if you know what I mean? Like make me cry my eyes out but not from despair/unhopefulness? Also please no Non-Con/Rape, at least not with main pair and not explicit 🙏

The Edge of Night by Hobbsy3 (M, 277k, WangXian, XuanLi, Modern AU, Zombie Apocalypse, Yúnmèng Siblings Dynamics, Accidental Baby Acquisition During a Zombie Apocalypse, Junior Quartet, (except they’re all babies), Angst with a Happy Ending, Minor Character Death, Hurt/Comfort, Blood and Gore, Ensemble Cast, Worst Zombie Fighting Team Ever, Found Family) Amazing Zombie AU

Darkness Before the Dawn by Selenay (E, 64k, wangxian, Zombie Apocalypse, Modern With Magic, Necromancer WWX, Reunions, toddler A-Yuan, There Was Only One Bed, There are zombies but not graphically horrific zombies, Angst with a Happy Ending, Find a home in the middle of an apocalpyse)

when the sun goes out by travelingneuritis (E, 176k, WangXian, Modern Cultivation, tech cultivation, Necromancy, Angst with a Happy Ending, insecurity around adoption, Dad!WWX, dad!lwj, Grief/Mourning, Mistaken Identity, Mood Whiplash, Body Swap, sex tears!, Falling In Love, Consensual Somnophilia, apocalypse (localized), Smut, unrealistic sexual stamina, Flashbacks, Time Skips, Illustrations) this fic jumps around in time so only part of it is During the Apocalypse, but highly recommend this fic

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7. Wangxian fluff. Pls😭😭😭just them married fluff.😭😭😭😭km traumatized. Pls. Just loads of happiness @honestlyewww

A Lifetime of It (Please, and Thank You) by misscam (M, 5k, WangXian, Wedding, a mix of series and novel, Humor, Fluff, Angst, some naughtiness, Switching)

coop d'état by wolfsan11 (G, 4k, WangXian, Fluff and Humor, Mild Hurt/Comfort, Established Relationship, Post-Canon, Chickens, WWX-centric, Post-Canon Modao Zushi Novel, Married WangXian, therapy chickens)

Dear Hanguang-Jun by cavaleira (M, 8k, WangXian, background ZhuiLing, Fluff, Established Relationship, Humor, Post-Canon)

Where the Lonely Ones Go by CSHfic, VSfic (T, 23k, WangXian, Accidental Baby Acquisition, Case Fic, Night Hunts, Fluff, Established Relationship, Mystery, Married Life, Domestic Fluff, Haunting, Kid Fic, Post-Canon, gratuitous use of empathy)

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8. Thank you for this amazing blog!! I am actually ITMF fics where LWJ initially misunderstands WWX and is pretty rude/cruel/hurtful to him which contributes to WWX whump(essentially him being super hurt yet still trying to act as if everything is okay or so). I have read a couple of fics with this trope but I don’t know how to find more so it would really great if you could recommend some fics along these lines. Thank you!!!

Couldn't Scream Couldn't Shout by mermorgie (T, 42k, WangXian, LXC & WWX, LXC & LWJ, LQR & WWX, JZX & WWX, WWX & NHS, LWJ & NHS, WIP, Not for JC stans, Muteness, Sign Language, references to selective mutism, Homophobic JC, canon JC characteristics, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Anxiety Attacks, Pining, LWJ is a Panicked Gay, Supportive Sibling LXC, JZX Tries, LQR Tries, Protective JZX, Scheming NHS, Bisexual JZX, LWJ is Bad at Communicating, WWX Has ADHD, Autistic LWJ, WWX Has a Fear of Dogs, Jiang Family Bashing)

🔒 Warming up (to him) by barisan (T, 9k, LQR & WWX, WangXian, Hypothermia, Cloud Recesses Study Arc, Temporary Character Death, Medical Inaccuracies, YZY Abuses WWX, JFM Bashing, pre-wangxian, Good Uncle LQR, Angst with a Happy Ending, Hurt/Comfort)

Concord by Deastar (T, 41k, WangXian, Arranged Marriage, Gusu Lan Sect Rules, Depression, Canon Divergence, Angst with a Happy Ending)

the earthquake in the room by phnelt (E, 39k, WangXian, College/University, Modern: No Powers, Canada, Getting Together, Mentions of lwj/others, background NieLan, background QingMian, inter-faculty romance, strangers to lovers to frenemies to lovers, mostly book characterisation, Background XuanLi)

For you by 10thNoNamePerson (T, 16k, WangXian, Cloud Recesses Study Arc, Cloud Recesses Shenanigans, Canon Divergence, No War AU, Teen Wangxian, Fluff and Hurt/Comfort, Jealous WWX, Soft WangXian, No Sunshot Campaign) they both misunderstand each other but it's lowk Lan Wangji’s fault 😭

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9. Hi! I’m itmf fics where it’s assumed that lan yuan is wei wuxian or lan wangji’s child or both. Thanks

Wei Wuxian, God of Fertility by tired (T, 19k, WangXian, Family Feels, Crack Treated Seriously, Crack, the juniors get REAL drunk, Gossip, POV Multiple, surprisingly not an mpreg fic, Kissing, Self-Esteem Issues, Discussion of Porn and Sex, Post-Canon, SOFT SOFT SOFT, married wangxian, Fluff and Humor, PSA: touching forehead ribbons gets you pregnant)

Lan Yuan's War by BurningTea (G, 196k, LSZ & LWJ, LWJ & LXC, WangXian, LWJ & WQ, WIP, Time Travel, Dad LWJ, Sunshot Campaign, Angst and Hurt/Comfort, Eventual Happy Ending, Rumours, Lots of rumours about LWJ, several people worry about LWJ, CQL Verse, Mental Health Issues, LWJ is very much not okay, Time travel has consequences, Sick LWJ) if the requester doesn't mind WIPs.

sing to the clouds in summer by stiltonbasket (G, 28k, JC & WWX, JC & JL, wangxian, JL & LSZ & LJY & OYZZ, 13k words of JC figuring out that LSZ is his nephew, ft. LXC and NHS the overprotective uncles, and LWJ giving JC death glares, Family Secrets, Reconciliation, Sad JC, Uncle-Nephew Relationship, Eventual Happy Ending, [Podfic] sing to the clouds in summer by read_by_Sophie (Sophie))

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10. Hello! I just finished reading "The Blame Game" and am itmf for any wangxian fics where someone who isn't Lan Zhan or Wei Wuxian time travels and fixes canon. Thank you!

Time, Time, Time by skeletonofaplant (G, 44k, wangxian, JYL/JZX, LSZ & WWX, JYL & JL & JZX, LJY & LSZ, Time Travel Fix-It, Burial Mounds Settlement Days, Identity Porn, Identity Reveal, Angst, Fluff, Junior Quartet Dynamics, Time Travelling Junior Ensemble, Junior Ensemble Shenanigans, Humor) The Juniors time travel (though it ends with the fixing canon merely implied as something that will happen)

Resilience. by Vrishchika (T, 7k, wangxian, time travel, not JC friendly, golden core transfer fix-it) JC time travels in this one, though it's less about him fixing things & more trying to make things how he thinks they should've gone & failing

💖 With Surgical Precision by metisket (T, 20k, WQ & WN, WQ & WWX, WangXian, Time Travel, Families of Choice, sibling bonding through murder) WQ time travel

Back To The River (So Learn To Swim) by kalany (M, 83k, CSSR/JFM/WCZ/YZY, JYL/JZX, WangXian, Fix-it fic, self-reincarnation, going back to try again, autotransmigration, time travel adjacent, Pregnancy, access to appropriate obstetrics care, Childbirth, lots of childbirth, there are so many children, Unplanned Pregnancy, but they are very much wanted, but it's discussed to make sure, Polyamory, Polygamy, survival sex, unwanted pregnancy ending in termination, abortion as victory, this fic has an agenda and it is access to reproductive health care, on-page death of a child, Murder of a Child, But he deserves it, it's XY if that matters, WRH doing WRH things, JGS doing JGS things, calling JGS a rapist, which he is and we're going to use that word in this fic, non-explicit discussion of sexual assault, Sexual Coercion, brief glimpse of sexual assault, Canon-Typical Violence, Canon-Typical Sexism, most of the people in this fic are coded non-neurotypical, asexual JC, bisexual JFM, bisexual YZY, Bisexual CSSR, bisexual WCZ, falling in love when you don't expect it, does it count as found family when it's your husband​, Sect Heir JYL) is YZY time travel where she fixes everything (or most things) featuring sect heir JYL and eventual YZY/JFM/CSR/WCZ polycule

Never Again by Hauntcats (T, 67k, WWX & WN & WQ, JC & WWX, wangxian, graphic depictions of violence, major character death, Canon Divergence, Angst, Golden Core Transfer Fix-It, Time Travel Fix-It, Not JC Friendly, Dark, BAMF WWX, mentions of abuse, Not Everyone Dies au, XY doesn’t have a happy ending) Another WQ time travel one

Lessons relearned by Iamnotawriter (T, 44k, WangXian, LQR & WWX, Not Madam Yu Friendly, Time Travel Fix-It, Angst with a Happy Ending, Canon-Typical Violence, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Inventor WWX, It Gets Worse Before It Gets Better, No Golden Core Transfer, YZY Bashing) LQR time travel

And They Lived Happily Ever After… by Morgana_avalon (G, 51k, WangXian, Zhuiling, Time Travel Fix-It, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Canon Universe, Canon Related, set before the ambush happens at Qiongqi Path, Canon Divergence, Bunnies, Good brother JC, Good JZX, CQL Verse)

Lynchpin by ShanaStoryteller (Not Rated, 103k, WangXian, JC & WWX, Time Travel, Fix-It)

❤️ nevermore, nevermore by agloeian (T, 120k, lan sizhui & everyone, wangxian, canon divergence, time travel fix-it, hurt/comfort, fluff, angst w/ happy ending)

Sail Away Sweet Sister by sami (M, 73k, WangXian, YZY/CSSR/MDM Lan, MingLi, Time Travel, EXTREME Canon Divergence, Wide Focus Narrative, Some People Live/Not Everyone Dies, Most Named/Canon Characters Live, Childhood Friends to Lovers, Families of Choice, Parenthood, this work contains a major tonal shift, Fluff, Angst, Underage Sex, not particularly explicit, but not at all ambiguous, PTSD, Only a tiny bit, Unforeseeable consequences, The butterfly effect, Slightly Dark JYL, Asexual Characters, but that’s not really the focus, Canon-Typical Violence)

🔒💖 The blame game by apathyinreverie (T, 13k, wangxian, LXC & LWJ, LSZ & WWX, WWX & WQ, LXC & WWX, canon divergence, time travel fix-it, possessive LWJ, oblivious WWX, fluff, siblings, romance, golden core reveal, golden core fix-it)

Moments of Revelation by meyari (T, 133k, ChengSang, WangXian, XiYao, Canon Divergence, Temporary Character Death, Time Travel Fix-It, Self-Sacrifice, Torture, Chronic Pain, Chronic anxiety, Grief/Mourning, PTSD, Chronic Mental Health Issues, Families of Choice, Original Supporting characters, Unreliable Narrator(s), Demonic Possession) Jiang Cheng goes back to when he lost his core and fixes everything. The author Meyari also has various other character time travel fixes in other fics, Meng Yao and Su She and I think others, but those are even more divergent

Back in time by Liebing23 (T, 32k, WangXian, Time Travel, Alternate Timelines, Fix-It of Sorts, Angst, Family Feels, Good Kid LSZ, LSZ Needs a Hug, Sad JL, JL Needs a Hug) the juniors time travel and fix some stuff!

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11. hi! I love this blog, I've found so many great fics and hidden gems just from scrolling through past ITMF posts! For the next ITMF, are there any fics similar to a paper friend by soft_wanning? just any fics where wwx is lost as a paperman and lwj helps him find his way back to lotus pier and that's how they meet

stray cat strut by ScarlettStorm (E, 54k, WangXian, No War AU, the world's least mysterious casefic, Comedy, Shenanigans, Slow Burn, a disgusting amount of magically necessary forehead smooches, switch rights) Wwx is cat, not paper man, but I found the vibes to be very similar and suuuper cute

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12.

Hi, I’m in the Mood for a Fic in which abusers get severe consequences or the system/traditions are challenged (with great success). If possible, some of the following scenarios:

Wei Wuxian has enough of getting whipped for no valid reason and starts standing up for himself (not just verbally, and especially NOT just talking back while still accepting punishment) but by attacking back or some other form of brutal revenge. 

a modern AU where jiang yanli and/or jiang cheng cut off contact with their parents for their treatment, anything where they put themselves and their brother above their abusive parents

Lan Zhan does not accept his punishment and kills(or at least successfully fights off) any elder that attempts to whip him. 

Lan Zhan or Lan Xichen destroys the wall of rules and makes the sect more friendly for all

someone invents democracy and various sect leaders are voted out - can be crack or serious

anyone going against “that’s how it’s always been” / “that’s how it’s supposed to be” and winning against all opposition, I’m ok with the character being OOC/more powerful than makes sense, 

basically anything where bad people are punished for being bad even if it doesn’t make sense because of their social standing

I will be grateful for any recs, thank you :) @hushtalks

The Wrong Man by Remma3760 (Not Rated, 125k, WangXian, Sect Leader LWJ, Evil JGS, Canon Divergence, Golden Core Reveal) LWJ becomes sect leader & uses his new power to reform the sect's rules & approach to discipline, & the plot is basically The Bad Characters Get Punished

Work of Heart by Witch_Nova221 (T, 17k, WangXian, Romance, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, soft romance, Artist WWX, Musician LWJ, College/University, Modern, Roommates, Friends to Lovers, Family Drama, Emotional Manipulation, Financial Issues, Bad Parent YZY) The Jiangs lose business deals because of their abuse of Wei Wuxian

🔒 Step by step by apathyinreverie (T, 12k, WangXian, Modern AU, JFM and YZY Bashing, not particularly Jiang family friendly, Guilt, Fluff, past angst, Flashbacks, Protective LWJ, Soft WWX, adorable a-yuan, Friendship, Family, Getting Together, Established Relationship, Hurt/Comfort, Domestic Fluff) The Jiangs lose business deals because of their abuse of Wei Wuxian

Meet you at a different place by tawaen (M, 57k, WQ & WN, WN & MXY & WQ, WQ & WWX & WN, Eventual WangXian, Ghost General WN, Ghost WQ, Canon Divergence, WQ comes back to haunt the cultivation world, Bad idea to kill the one person who didn’t kill anyone, Cultivation World Critical, Not JC Friendly, Wen Remnants Deserve Better, Sīsī Deserves Better, MXY Deserves Better, POV WQ) Wen Qing's ghost gets revenge against those that wronged her family & Wei Wuxian

A Life Without Regrets by naqaashi (M, 146k, WangXian, JFM & WWX, JC & WWX, WRH & WWX, LXC & LWJ, LQR & LWJ, LWJ & NHS, Canon Divergence, Time Travel Fix-It, Angst and Humor, Angst with a Happy Ending, Fluff, Hurt/Comfort, Crack Treated Seriously, musical cultivation, Slow Burn, Pining, Rogue Cultivator WWX, Murder Husbands, PTSD, BAMF WWX, Demonic Cultivation, POV WWX, Cultivation Sect Politics, Worldbuilding, No Yīn Iron, Genius WWX, Inventor WWX, Artist WWX, Musician WWX, Night Hunts, Fate & Destiny, Bad Parent JFM & YZY, Golden Core, Cultivation Theory, Sentient Burial Mounds, Father-Son Relationship, Dysfunctional Family, Grief/Mourning, Parent-Child Relationship, Angry WWX, Pining WWX, WWX is Not Okay, No Golden Core Transfer, BAMF LWJ, Pining LWJ, POV LWJ, Angry LWJ, One-Braincell Wangxian, Love Confessions, Idiots in Love, WIP) is a time travel fic where Lan Wangji destroys the wall of disciplines and he & Wei Wuxian change the world for the better.

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13. Hello! I was wondering if you have any good recs with protective/overprotective Lan Zhan who will be dammed if he lets anything happen to Wei Ying ever again?

Also I just wanted to say you’re incredible and I genuinely appreciate all the work you do for us poor Wangxian fans!

🔒 Revenge is a Side Dish Best Served With Tea by merakily (G, 7k, WangXian, Post-Canon, Canon Compliant, Protective LWJ, Petty LWJ, Fluff and Humor)

💖 Nice work if you can get it by deliciousblizzardshark (M, 11k, wangxian, protective LWJ, genius LWJ, post-canon, fluff & humor, getting together, chief cultivator LWJ)

I Have Arranged to Tie You to Me by xxxMiaHikarixxx (G, 82k, WIP, WangXian, Lan protective team, Time Travel, Past, LWJ oriented, Arranged Marriage, Boys In Love, Soulmates, Fix-It, Jiang siblings, not jiang parents friendly, Soft LWJ, Protective LWJ, Genius WWX)

🔒 As good as by apathyinreverie (T, 6k, WangXian, LQR & WWX, Fix-It, Canon Divergence, not a good uncle LQR story, but also not not?, Golden Core Reveal, Kind Of, Golden Core Fix-It, Also kind of, Addiction, Manipulation, not between wangxian, just...War politics, Sunshot Campaign, Not As Dark As The Tags Make It Sound, Possessive LWJ, Protective LWJ, Tired WWX, Genius WWX, Dual Cultivation, LQR is too old for teenage drama, Developing Relationship)

my rivers tilt towards you by perfectlyrose (T, 26k, WangXian, Canon, Canon Divergence, Slow Burn, Mutual Pining, Fairy Tale Elements, dragonji, mentions of, Madam Yu’s A+ Parenting, First Meetings, Romance, Strangers to Friends to Lovers, Hurt/Comfort)

🔒 Heart of hearts series by apathyinreverie (M, 40k, WangXian, Dark LWJ(Ish), Amnesia, WWX gets to be Not Okay after the BM, Hurt WWX, Recovery, Caring, Protective LWJ, Possessive LWJ, some definite manipulation but not everything is as it seems, not nearly as dark as the tags make it sound, Canon Divergence, Golden Core Reveal, Golden Core Transfer Fix-It Kind Of, Domestic WangXian, Fluff, WWX Goes to Gusu, Possessive WWX, WWX happily atticwifing away, Sunshot Campaign, BAMF WWX, BAMF LWJ, ridiculously self-indulgent, Not Cultivation World Friendly)

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14, Hi! I read "By the emperor's decree - sweetlolixo" and am itmf fics where people have the mindset "wangji is a serious child, always has been" "Lan wangji doesn't smile or have fun" and all variations where most everyone even Lan zhan's family are sorta intimidated and kept at arm's length by his blank face and then they see him with Wei Wuxian and get the surprise of their lifetime cuz then he's smiling, joking, not punishing for rule breaking seriously, being just as shameless and working to fluster Wei wuxian more as well as proud to show off all the marks he leaves on his husband. It could be any AU!

By Heart by Meseem (T, 28k, WangXian, Time Travel Fix-It, Amnesia, Memory Loss, Canon Divergence, Somebody Lives/Not Everyone Dies, Angst with a Happy Ending, amnesiac time-traveler lwj, POV LWJ) iirc in one chapter Lan Xichen is surprised by Lan Wangji admitting that he likes Wei Wuxian, and overall a bunch of people get surprised by how much he let's him get away with

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15. Itmf a fic where wwx is abandoned after the battle of nightless city against wen ruohan, causing major canon divergence. Maybe the public turns against him, maybe his death is faked (by himself or others - he did pass out in public and was vulnerable to others for a time), maybe someone tries to 'remove a potential threat before he can become one' after that display of power, maybe he runs away, or is lost on the battlefield w/ disfiguring wounds and amnesia, etc. tldrwarwonbutwwxnogohomewothers

🔒this house is loved by ribena (T, 15k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, WWX lives, Memory Loss, Cottagecore, Developing Relationship, slight angst, introspective and a little rambly, Happy Ending, Feelings)

❤️ The Third Young Master of the Qishan Wen by KouriArashi (T, 139k, wangxian, xiyao, chengqing, romance, angst w/ happy ending, hurt/comfort, politics, revenge, families of choice, pining) This fic is already very canon-divergent (it's an AU where wwx is adopted by the Dafan Wen) but it has pretty much the plot point requested

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16. Hello

I'm in the mood for a WangXian fic that's set in the genre of Dark Academia. I've been reading Grimoire by WithLoweredVoices recently, and really enjoyed it. Do you know of any similar fics? @shenmiao98

Marks of weakness, marks of woe by Song_of_Storms (E, 48k, WangXian, WIP, College/University, Modern with Magic, Dark Academia, Rivals to Lovers, Dark LWJ, Slow Burn, Eventual Smut, Murder Mystery, Minor Character Death, Familiars, Fencing, Nonbinary NHS, Poison, Aftermath of Poisoning, Tagged Explicit For Later Chapters, LWJ's canonical inability to distinguish between immediate hatred and immediate attraction, furthering the LWJ/JZX/MM friendship agenda, Heavy Angst, Implied/Referenced Suicide, Intrusive Thoughts) If the requester of 16 doesn't mind a WIP

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17. I read fic Turn Left by kianspo, where Lan Zhan was kidnapped from Gusu sect and grew up outside of it (on the streets and then with Xiao Xingchen on Baoshan Sanren mountain). I’m in the Mood for a Fic with similar topic, where Lan Zhan grew up outside of Gusu Lan, be it in different sect or as rogue cultivator (without Gusu Lan sect rules). I would like to find more fics with this particular trope (not modern au). The plot after it (family reunion, wangxian) doesn't matter as much. Thank you.

no step had trodden black by Stratisphyre (T, 32k, wangxian, LQR & WWX, JYL/JZX, canon divergence, madam lan lives, past rape, golden core reveal, hurt/Comfort, referenced to attempted suicide & suicidal thoughts, canon-typical violence) Lan Wangji grew up as a rogue cultivator with his mom

The Dreams of Youth by sami (E, 86k, wangxian, time travel, fix-it, family, not lan sect friendly, canon typical violence & gore, childhood friends to lovers, hurt/comfort, mothers who live, some people live/not everyone dies) If the requester doesn't mind a time travel story, four-year-old Lan Wangji leaves the Lan sect with his mother

Xiao XingChen's travelling sect Series by The Silverfish (ZephyrAndTheSilverfish) (T, 43k, WangXian, SongXiao, Time Travel, Children, rogue cultivators, Not Canon Compliant, Hurt/Comfort, small town, Murder Mystery, Parental XXC, Cultivation Conference, Bad Parenting, World Travel, Monsters, Bugs & Insects, Sailors, Sea Monsters, Pirate Treasure, Ocean, Flirting, Bad Flirting) Another time-travel one, in which LWJ is raise (well "raised", he has adult memories and maturity) by Xiao Xingchen

Sail Away Sweet Sister by sami (M, 73k, WangXian, YZY/CSSR/MDM Lan, MingLi, Time Travel, EXTREME Canon Divergence, Wide Focus Narrative, Some People Live/Not Everyone Dies, Most Named/Canon Characters Live, Childhood Friends to Lovers, Families of Choice, Parenthood, this work contains a major tonal shift, Fluff, Angst, Underage Sex, not particularly explicit, but not at all ambiguous, PTSD, Only a tiny bit, Unforeseeable consequences, The butterfly effect, Slightly Dark JYL, Asexual Characters, but that’s not really the focus, Canon-Typical Violence) (link in #10) Also Sami's got another time-travel one where LWJ grows up in the Jiang Sect (ljw is not the time-traveler in this one)

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If you didn’t get an answer to your ask here, don’t forget to make use of @mdzs-kinkmeme and MDZS KINK MEME on Dreamwidth. Authors actually do use them for ideas. You may get what you order!***Your prompt doesn’t have to be kink! Fluff, crack, whatever - it’s all good!***

[sonik-kun]

Why are Jiang Cheng antis unable to accept JC's canon positive traits whilst completely denying all of Wei Wuxian's canon negatives? Lmao.

WWX is canonically reckless. In his first life, he made stupid decisions and made enemies on his own which even he acknowledges.

JC did correctly predict WWX's downfall. He warns him about walking the crooked path, and WWX just laughs and shrugs him off.

JC also correctly predicted that if he stood with the Wen, the rest of the world would turn against WWX, and JC wouldn't be able to protect him.

The whole thing about JC is that he is pragmatic. He is politically savvy, and he is very perceptive. We see this in the Wen indoctrination camp also, when JC warns WWX not to draw attention to himself or anger the Wen. We all know that he does draw attention to himself (even if doing so saved the lives of all the sect heirs at the camp) and not long after, the Jiang were targeted next after the Lans, with the Wens determined to shame WWX for his "insolence."

We also see that JC is more socially aware of the political situation. He is street smart and a realist. WWX, on the other hand, was more of an optimist, believing he can save everyone, even political enemies, and somehow, no one would bat an eye.

Now, no one is saying that WWX is wrong to speak out against the injustices of the world. On the contrary. Everyone in this fandom is very much on his side and agrees with him because he is correct to call them out and challenge the sect leaders. But that doesn't mean his methods were right, nor were they considerate. They were still reckless and still endangered many lives. His decisions often only thought about the short term and never the long term.

You also seem to forget that his DC also made him rather reckless and irritational. JC didn't only warn him of this, but LWJ, too. His actions via the use of DC lead to the deaths of JZX and JYL, not to mention the many disciples that were present at Nightless City.

WWX's actions, although pure and noble, put JC into a very difficult situation, and ultimately, they took away the last immediate family JC had left (JYL). That is a fact. It's not even a fanon headcannon. I don't know why I'm seeing antis insisting that we're completely ass pulling all of this. It's literally there in the book.

To conclude, no one is making up JC's canon good traits. You just refuse to see them because you're blinded by WWX's protagonist halo. So much so that you can't even see his own canonical flaws. Talk about hypocritical, much?

Also, no. MXTX doesn't care what JC fans think or even what JC antis think. She's moved on from this story years ago. It hardly crosses her mind anymore. (Even then, she was baffled by the hate JC got and claimed that he isn't a bad person. It's there in the interviews if you want to read them, straight from the authors mouth!). But sure. Pop off. Keep on justifying being vile, nasty haters. Let's see where that gets you. 👋

[acequinz]

The agony of Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian's relationship is that neither could forge a strong base to the relationship they wanted.

Wei Wuxian was raised to be Jiang Cheng's servant, even if JFM favoured him there were no illusions that he was to be a carer for Jiang Cheng and that's what Wei Wuxian continued to be.

And that's what Jiang Cheng let him be, even if he had wanted a deeper more emotional relationship with Wei Wuxian his insecurities and resentment towards Wei Wuxian resulting from the treatment of his parents was too strong to let him form the base that Wei Wuxian had with Jiang Yanli.

Because Wei Wuxian didn't get punished if he out-performed Jiang Yanli, because JYL did not get berated every time WWX did something she could not.

They could never ever be on equal footing under these conditions for the base to be stable. It's always either WWX below JC for his background or JC below WWX for their skill set.

WWX genuinely cared for Jiang Cheng and Jiang Cheng seemed to care for him too, now of course their morality is in different places so they were bound to separate.

Jiang Cheng is first and foremost bound to his sect and his parents. He would not care what happens to others as long as he could keep his sect upright and not be in danger even if it means to bow his head in places he shouldn't.

Wei Wuxian was first and foremost bound to doing what he thinks is morally right and then caring for Jiang Cheng and Jiang Yanli. He would always do his best for both the Jiang heirs but he would not sacrifice his morality for anyone.

This combined with their overall weak base for the relationship? Of course it would fall apart.

This is not to say there wasn't love. But love is not enough. I am afraid love is never enough unless you bring in understanding into the relationship which WWX and JC couldn't have.

They could never understand each other without letting go of the bitterness.

In the end letting go of each other was the best option.

Because it finally freed them of the barrier of what they were meant to be, WWX as JC's servant and JC as WWX'S master.

I don't think either actually ever wanted that but they went along with it because that's what everyone around them pushed for it to be.

Maybe they wanted to be real brothers but the resentment due to outside source could never allow them to cross the bridge especially once it was out of the picture. (The bridge being JYL of course. She went to live her own life and they fell apart and even then she tried to fix things and lost it all and somehow still stayed loving till the end, god I fucking love her.)

I do love Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian and the complicated relationship they have but I honestly prefer the way it ended with them going their own ways, no longer bound to the painful strings that were repeatedly used to hurt them and each other.

They are free, hopefully Jiang Cheng finally let's go of it as well and lives his life in the present. Lead his sect no longer clinging to the shadow of WWX and agonizing over it, have some bonding time with JL because let's be honest JL is doing somehow better than JC in handling his emotions except that one stab. He's his momma's son but he could still use some bonding time since he has to be sect leader very young too, my poor kid.

Wei Wuxian has definitely let go already, he did everything he could and gave up because everything he tried failed and only caused him more pain. So it's okay if he gives up. Let him roam around with the person who understands and indulges him now. Having weird kinky sex anywhere, everywhere and everyday, he deserves it.

Maybe it's just because there's not enough people actually letting go of their toxic families trope in Asian shows but fuck this really hits the spot. It's okay to leave and go your separate ways when you know you could possibly never fix it or get over the pain and being near only causes more pain. So yeah Wei Wuxian choosing to leave seems great to me.

[ninjakk]

Who is going around saying JC would have raised A-Yuan better?!

Can they not read? Have they hit their head and are concussed? Do they need medical assistance?!

There is so much wrong with this whole scenario I don't even know where to begin!

Let's start with the fact that JC is the reason A-Yuan has no living relatives left…

That JC actually brought a horde of blood thirsty people to where the child was living, totally unperturbed by the fact an innocent toddler would most certainly die. People think A-Yuan should live with the guy that did that?

JC hates all the Wens, even those who were innocent and not only helped save him, but secured his parents' remains for him! He abuses his own nephew, slapping him around and making him feel unworthy. If he does that to his own flesh and blood, what type of life would A-Yuan have had if in some skewed, illogical alternative universe where JC actually had a heart and not only actively spared the toddler but raised him himself?!

What an awful upbringing the poor child would have had. He's already lost everyone, why are some intent on making him suffer any more?!

LWJ did an absolutely incredible job raising A-Yuan. WWX is not only instantly drawn towards the boy but he has nothing but praise for whoever raised him! As opposed to his impression of JL, where he ponders why the boy has turned out so arrogant, ill-tempered and brimming with hostility - much like his uncle and father.

Just look at the evidence!

LSZ is a well adjusted, kind, caring, smart young man who gets on with others and has great cultivation and leadership skills. Whereas JL, harbours so much unnecessary pain and resentment in his heart thanks to JC outright lying about the circumstances around his mother's death, encouraging him to embrace the hatred within him instead. JL puts himself in danger and does not care about dying as long as he's able to prove his worth and abilities to JC. Not to mention how lonely the poor kid is. It's heartbreaking to see what has become of JYLs baby - and this is with the boy only living with his uncle half of the time!!

Thankfully WWX is trying his best to rectify these issues and JL is showing promise due to the influence of WWX, LWJ and the other juniors.

I honestly don't know how LSZ could be any better than he already is in canon. Whoever stated this is utterly delusional and doesn't understand the plot or characters at all.

[robininthelabyrinth]

for the fanfic prompts: au where wwx comes from the old and respected yiling wei sect and jc and jyl are the children of rogue cultivators (or maybe madam yu ran away with rogue jfm?), taken in by sect leader wei

ao3

"I'm going to strangle Jiang Cheng when I find him," Wei Wuxian announced. "No, don't try to talk me out of it. My decision on this is final."

"Mm," Lan Wangji said. He didn't sound especially convinced, but Wei Wuxian supposed he could understand and forgive that - after all, Wei Wuxian had been waffling for quite a while on what he was going to do to Jiang Cheng once he found him.

Because he was going to find him. That part was non-negotiable.

Wei Wuxian was going to find his stupid little shidi who'd never had a kind word in his poisonous little mouth, but whose heart was as soft as his tone was hard. His shidi who had always been so painfully grateful for the way Wei Wuxian's parents had taken him and his sister into their sect after his own parents had died so unwisely on a night hunt - Jiang Yanli had been visiting with them anyway, her chronic weakness having flared up, but Jiang Cheng had been who-knows-where with them at the time. He never talked about what had happened back then, and neither did he talk about what he'd endured the following year when no one had been able to find him as he slowly made his determined way back to Yiling, terrified down to his bones that Jiang Yanli had been thrown out as soon as the news had spread. He'd only been eight, and all alone, but he hadn't let anything stop him.

Really, Wei Wuxian should have realized long ago that Jiang Cheng would be inclined to do some completely insane if it was for the sake of Yiling Wei. Jiang Cheng's family motto had been attempt the impossible, far more ambitious than Yiling Wei's live true to yourself, and Jiang Cheng persisted in thinking that he owed them his life. And Jiang Cheng always paid back his debts, whether real or imagined.

Wei Wuxian was going to strangle him.

And then he was going to hug him and never let him go ever again. He was going to keep Jiang Cheng safe this time, and he was never going to have to see his stubborn shidi turning his back on him again, turning back to the burning mountain that needed someone with the key to the defensive array to hold down long enough to deceive the invading Wen sect into thinking Yiling Wei was still there. He was never going to have to lie there on that horrible talisman-powered boat, paralyzed by whatever poisonous concoction Jiang Cheng had slipped into their drinks at dinner as they'd debated escape versus staying to fight a suicidal battle, unable to do anything as Jiang Cheng saved his entire family at the cost of his own life...

No, that wasn't right. Jiang Cheng hadn't given up his life for theirs - he hadn’t. He'd been captured by the Wen sect, yes, and then he'd been taken away to who-knows-where, but there wasn't any proof he was actually dead. 

Wei Wuxian was going to find him. 

He was going to find him, and he was going to strangle him, and then he was going to bring him home where he belonged.

“You can strangle him too if you like, if you promise not to use that ridiculous arm strength of yours,” Wei Wuxian offered to Lan Wangji, who rolled his eyes at him. “I’m serious! It doesn’t have to be strangling. You can kick him instead…well, I don’t know. Do you Lan have ridiculous leg strength, too?”

Lan Wangji didn’t dignify that with any response.

Typical, really.

Luckily, Wei Wuxian’s mother had given him good advice – very good, since Wei Wuxian took after his eternally oblivious father in regards to romance – and so he just waited patiently to see if Lan Wangji was actually deliberately ignoring him or if he just needed some time to gather his thoughts.

(Or, you know, be shamed by his fine-tuned etiquette skills into responding anyway. This was apparently a strategy that worked really well on members of the Lan sect in particular, or at least on Lan Wangji’s uncle – and everyone always said that a nephew most resembled their uncles…)

“…I brought rope,” Lan Wangji said after a while.

Wei Wuxian blinked. Rope? Well, of course Lan Wangji had brought rope – they didn’t know where Jiang Cheng was, after all, and there were always situations where rope might be useful for climbing or marking a path or –

“To tie him up.”

Or that.

Wei Wuxian once again congratulated himself on having excellent taste in romantic partners, even if it had taken him his mother (and, more embarrassingly, his father) pointing out to him that what he was feeling was romantic attraction and not just, as he’d believed, an overwhelming desire to get Lan Wangji’s undivided attention and torment him into friendship.

(Wei Wuxian still couldn’t believe his father had dared to say something about him not getting it. That rotten hypocrite had asked his own wife on the eve of their wedding if she actually liked him like that! He didn’t get to judge other people for being a little slow on the uptake!)

Once Wei Wuxian had realized, of course, naturally he’d dragged Jiang Cheng all the way back to the Cloud Recesses with him to try to spend more time with Lan Wangji. Never mind his own initial obliviousness, once he was set on a course of action, no one could stymie him – he’d been sure he’d be able to win the icy Lan-er-gongzi’s heart, and sure enough, he’d been right! Even if exactly how he’d managed to do it remained mystifyingly unclear, the main point was, he’d done it!

It hadn’t occurred to him at the time that it was in any way odd to take Jiang Cheng with him.

It was Jiang Cheng! They went everywhere together, did everything together – they’d even been born only a few days apart, Wei Wuxian leading and Jiang Cheng following, just the way it ought to be, just the way it always was. Sure, Jiang Cheng grumbled and complained, but that was just how he was; Wei Wuxian would even bet that he’d left the womb grumbling rather than crying.  If he’d really objected to something, he would have just shut himself up like a turtle, refusing to engage, and there would be no force in the heavens and earth that could get him to come out, so, really, the fact that he came along meant that he didn’t mind, no matter his complaining that it was wrong to bring a third party on a date.

Wei Wuxian, for his part, had just felt that it would be even more wrong to leave him out.

That had been all that it was or so he thought. At the time, anyway.

He really was just – very oblivious.

And then there’d been that one beautiful summer afternoon when he’d finally cornered Lan Wangji all on his own and they’d ended up kissing for half a shi before Wei Wuxian had, rather unconsciously, said, “I can’t wait to see what Jiang Cheng thinks of this! …where is he, anyway? Wasn’t he supposed to come on this hunt with us?”

Lan Wangji had hummed and nodded. “He made a mistake.”

“A mistake?”

“Mm. He thought we wanted privacy.”

Wei Wuxian hadn’t been able to resist a wicked smirk – they had, hadn’t they? Only…he wanted privacy from the rest of the world, sure; no one else was allowed to see Lan Wangji all red-eared and flustered, kissed until his lips were pink. But the rest of the world didn’t include Jiang Cheng, who had to see it: he would probably have the funniest comments to say about it, and if he didn’t see it, how would he make them?

“A mistake,” Lan Wangji had said again, and this time he sounded far more serious, serious and solemn. “He thought he was unwelcome, but he is not. By…either of us.”

That had been the first time Wei Wuxian had congratulated himself on his exquisite taste.

Truly, Lan Wangji was his soulmate. How else would he understand so well what Wei Wuxian had only just begun to realize for himself? That he didn’t just want Jiang Cheng by his side as his future right hand, but by his side, forever, in all things, even this?

Lan Wangji even had the good taste to want Jiang Cheng for himself as well. He was perfect.

They both were.

They were both perfect, and they were both necessary, neither one any less than the other, and once Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji found Jiang Cheng, they were going to beat that fact into his rotten head once and for all. And then tie him up and take him home and never, ever, ever let him go.

As soon as they found him.

Because they were going to find him, no matter where the Wen might have taken him. Even if he was in the depths of the Fire Palace or the depths of the Yunmeng ghost marsh, that stinking pit so full of drowned souls that even the fish couldn’t make it in, they were going to find him and bring him home.

Because Jiang Cheng was theirs.

[least-carpet]

No, no, but now I want to read your ideas about how wwx is set to an implosion in 1-3 years. How do you get him there? In canon, he needed jyl's death, the wen siblings death, the world against him

Another neglected anon! Sorry for the late response and happy new year!

I actually think what we saw in terms of Wei Wuxian's devolution after Jiang Yanli's death qualifies as an explosion rather than an implosion, i.e. the force was directed outwards from the centre and killed whoever was in the blast radius. I don't think he'll do that.

I do think we see him implode earlier than that though, in the post-war period, where he drinks excessively (to the point that Wen Qing comments on it), he's unreliable, his moods are volatile, he self-isolates, etc.

To be fair, a certain amount of this is related to not having a golden core and practising demonic cultivation. However, I also tend to read it as a reaction to his war trauma, since self-medicating is a pretty normal response to surviving horrifying events?

Let me be clear that I don't think he always used alcohol like this—I think his partying as a teenager became a problem in adulthood. I think that was always a risk for him for a variety of reasons (we know that he survived becoming a homeless orphan and doesn't remember big chunks of his childhood, which tends to indicate trauma) but I don't think we see it happen until after the war, during which he saw and did some buckwild shit. I also don't know that he ever developed a physical dependence on alcohol, just that his post-war alcohol use looks pretty dysfunctional given its context and all the other choices he was making.

So. Given what we know about:

his behaviour in the post-war period;

his behaviour immediately post-resurrection, specifically that we see him desperately trying to avoid people, places, and situations that make him remember traumatic events from his first life;

his partner, specifically that Lan Wangji doesn't have a real barometer for what "normal" drinking looks like, and also has a tendency to enable Wei Wuxian;

where his partner lives, the extremely calm and controlled Cloud Recesses, where everything is on a strict schedule, therefore predictable and regular, and many activities Wei Wuxian likes are just not allowed—

We have a scenario where a person who thrives in exciting situations and likes working under pressure is living in place that is quiet, regular, and predictable. He is not supposed to drink there, but has a spouse who's willing to smuggle in as much alcohol as he wants. He has thus far throughout the story distracted himself from processing a long series of very traumatic events, and has only been willing to be in relationship with people who can't or won't hold him accountable. All of those feelings are waiting to explode out of the closet he's stuffed them in and fall on his head. And now he's often in a place where there's nothing fun to do...

Like, I think that it might take a minute, since the euphoria of new love will at least provide, you know, some positive feelings, which are their own distraction. (Plus all the sex! And night-hunting!) And Lan Wangji has many qualities that make him a real support to Wei Wuxian, and that might get him through that inevitable post-honeymoon period of quiet where all his feelings pop out and come for him. But I don't think that's going to be a fun experience for anyone?

TL;DR I think eventually he will have to stop running away and actually think about what he's lost, and we know what he does with Bad Feelings he doesn't want (excessive drinking, avoidance, withdrawal from loved ones). Grief and shame are gonna get you every time!

[spriteofmushrooms]

What would be wwx reaction if he ended up in an universe where jc and jyl didn't exist or maybe wwx killed them (rumors has it)?? 🤔

Gradually, Jiang Cheng grows aware. Pain throbs through him with every pulse, highlighting every point at which the cables bind him. He steadies his breath, listening. To his left, someone is humming poorly as they shuffle objects around. Paper, perhaps?

"Do you think I don't know how you breathe?"

Jiang Cheng freezes, then lifts his chin and opens his eyes. Lightning arcs from his neck down his spine, and his breath hitches from the pain. "Who are you?" he rasps.

The stranger is young with the air of a cultivator. He's draped in black, grey, and red without any insignias; so he's either in disguise or a rogue. He's not wearing a sword, but a black dizi with a red tassel is stuck haphazardly in his belt. His eyes are red, but his expression is sweet, curious, and full of mirth.

"So it's true? Aiya, Jiang Cheng, this one is your humble shixiong, Wei Wuxian." He bows elegantly.

While Wei Wuxian's eyes are downcast, Jiang Cheng flexes his wrists against the immortal binding cables behind his back. Unfortunately, even Yu Ziyuan would find the knots satisfactory. As the stranger rises, Jiang Cheng stills.

"I am da-shixiong," Jiang Cheng offers cautiously.

"Oh, here, sure," Wei Wuxian says, flicking his hands as if batting that away. "What a sad little world you have. No me, no Baoshan Sanren."

"Baoshan Sanren gave her life to protect--"

Wei Wuxian scoffs. "That old woman was bored."

Anger rose within Jiang Cheng. Whoever the fuck this asshole was, he could go die. "My apologies for the lackluster surroundings. Feel free to leave at any time."

"Jiang Cheng, Jiang Cheng, you're so cute. If I leave, you know it will be with you."

"Your sad delusions aren't my problem," Jiang Cheng hisses. "If you think you're the first person to decide we're more than we are, you're mistaken. I don't fucking know you. I don't want to."

The air around Wei Wuxian shifts. He smiles. "But I know you, a-Cheng. I know everything that shaped you, and I'm sorry it took me so long to realize that we belong together. Really, I am. But I won't ever let you out of my sight again."

Jiang Cheng closes his eyes. He needs information. "Again?"

Wei Wuxian chuckles. "Will Sandu Shengshou pester the truth out of me now? Interrogate away. Yes, again. My Jiang Cheng got himself killed."

"How did he die?"

Wei Wuxian tugs on the end of his ribbon. Although it's gentle, every slight jerk lances through Jiang Cheng. "Is that really what you want to know?"

Jiang Cheng looks into Wei Wuxian's eyes. "Did you kill him?" he asks, voice flat.

"What a mean thing to say," Wei Wuxian says. "Shidi, no one will marry you if you stay like this."

"Who's my shixiong? You couldn't have been a good one since your shidi died."

Wei Wuxian slowly wraps the purple ribbons around his hand. As the tension increases, Jiang Cheng must lean closer. He ends up with his chin in one of Wei Wuxian's hands while the other wraps around his guan. "You should consider your position before you speak to me," Wei Wuxian says, brushing a thumb over his lips even as he pulls up on the guan. Jiang Cheng gasps. "Maybe you're not my Jiang Cheng, but I can make you him. It won't be that hard; you're both such brats. All we need is time..."

As he speaks, his expression grows distant. His touches grow gentler.

"You're hurting me."

Wei Wuxian's gaze fixes on him again. "I know. But bear it for me, alright? It's going to hurt a lot, but it's the only way."

It's not as though Jiang Cheng has a choice. He nods.

"Good boy," Wei Wuxian murmurs as he drops the ribbons and walks back to the table. He picks up a long stick that's difficult to make out in the gloom and begins whistling. As he returns, Jiang Cheng straightens, eyes wide.

The Jiang discipline whip.

"He never let me see all of the scars, but let's play it by ear."

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

I really like how you see how important JYL was for WWX. Some people hate the Jiangs so much they fail to see the role she played in his life.

Happy Weekend, anon!

I'm one of the ones that will forever say that it was Jiang Yanli that made the biggest emotional impact upon Wei Wuxian in his first life since she had been the one he felt most comfortable with when it came to asking questions and his own confusion about feelings. He wasn't wanting advice or anything further, she was a friend and sister he was able to just be Wei Wuxian.

I think a lot of people forget that he actually didn't have to pretend anything around her and he also didn't feel a need to say anything more too, given her position as not all that important to the dramatics and cruelty of the cultivation world. She was able to stay soft and kind. He vastly values that sort of person over the politics of their world and is vastly happier when he is able to be part of that instead. He doesn't want to be this huge awe inspiring figure in the long run. And he didn't need Jiang Yanli to be that either. She was what she was, and expressed that, she didn't need to be more, do more, or try more, than what she did for him. It was why he appreciated how she was the one to come try to help him despite being weak in strength, she wasn't in heart.

And that's what ultimately made him stay and be fond of what used to be Yunmeng Jiang, and he is able to see that in Jin Ling underneath everything Jiang Cheng and Jin Guangyao manipulated to make the child mean, naive and jealous, her strength was what was able to shine through at the end. Not Jiang Cheng's or Jin Guangyao's ideals, it was hers to not want to hate anyone and be sad of what transpired and being able to still move on and live to be happy himself in some way. Grand or not, Jiang Yanli certainly wasn't grand, but kindness is always remembered more personally and why she is so important to Wei Wuxian. Whatever cruelties there are, she is still able to survive someway in Jin Ling's ideals at the end.

[mdzs-is-rotting-my-brain]

Why is the canon Jiang Cheng tag so fucked? I was looking for a meta I wanted to reread and the tag is just....woobifying Jiang Cheng? Stans defending from antis, there's a whole post asking "do you ever think about how Jiang Cheng felt after the Siege of the Burial Mounds (that he led!) Where he lost his sister and now his "brother"?

Did...did we read the same book? Jiang Cheng led the siege on the Burial Mounds, the two forces of the largest numbers were Jin and Jiang! You think Jiang Cheng was sad about Wei Wuxian's murder? The murderer he committed? The murder of murder hobos he led to murder the man you called his "brother"?

And that wasn't even the worst one. The worst one, by far, was arguing that Jiang Cheng never hated Wei Wuxian because he wasn't homophobic...he hated him for other reasons, actually it wasn't hate it was "complicated feelings"

And to that i say you are correct, Jiang Cheng never hated Wei Wuxian because he was gay. (We're going to ignore the fact that Wei Wuxian died before he figured how how he felt for a moment.) He hated Wei Wuxian long before that. However, Jiang Cheng is absolutely homophobic. And it's just one of the many things he hates about WWX.

On top of all of that. One of those posts uses the tag #just a girl without reading comprehension. And...I mean....

I have so many thoughts about a lot of theses posts. Maybe I'll compile them into a longer sort of post. Maybe I won't. It's not imperative to my life.

At the end of the day/year/your life/hyper fixation. You can like whom ever you want for whatever reasons you want.

You shouldn't, however, go out of your way, to take over a tag were people who do not like said character, and flood that tag with art, call out posts or mock those that what genuine discussions as a means of triggering people who want to genuinely be critical of that character when you cannot handle the slightest amount of criticism directed at your faves.

Go touch grass.

No ironically. Not sarcastically. Not demeaning.

Go. Touch. Grass.

Go outside.

Go to the store.

Learn to live with people that think, feel, and believe differently than you. Learn to accept the fact that your behavior, intentionally triggering them, is mean, heartless, and myopic. Learn to understand that your point of view is not the default, nor the correct point of view. Learn to understand that even blood-related siblings fall apart. And for a "bond" as tenuous as the one between WWX and JC and break was bound to happen. Even if Qiongqi Road 2.0 never happened, even if Nightless City never happened. If JZX and JYL lived and had seventeen more kids. Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng would have found themselves on opposite sites, their morals and personalities are diametrically opposite. The break would have happened.

Learn to be okay with that.

And if you come across an anti post and you want to flood the tag with art sit with yourself a minute and ask why you wanna hurt some internet stranger so much, and why it's so important in your life?

Go touch grass.

[llycaons]

Jiang Yanli is not so necessary to the daily running of Lotus Pier. She can’t be. From the youngest age, she always knew she was merely a guest, of sorts, borrowed from her future life.

...

There are no songs and chatter. It makes her long for home, but adaptability is important. She must be able to make a home anywhere.

this jyl thinks briefly on 'the fate of women' as she prepares to stay in CR to look over wwx and talks about the inevitability of her marriage and her departure from LP with a sad sort of pragmatism and I feel like this reading of her is extremely unpopular in the neighborhood I'm in bc ppl tend to like to uplift her social and political power in the narrative and I enjoy reading those too for sure but the canonical fact is that she is a gentry woman in a strongly patriarchal society and she understands that and responds to it and she lives within that world. in canon, jyl has very little social or political power. she is vulnerable after the deaths of her parents and must rely on her younger brothers to protect her. she is not taken seriously in political matters, she is not a sect heir, and the only sway she ever holds in public is through a verbal condemnation of a man using her family's title, and backed up by that man's aunt (married to a very powerful political figure). the only reason jzx listens to her is because he personally cares for her. jc doesn't have much power as a very young sect leader of a small sect, but as an individual jyl has far less, and is hardly in a position to act as any sort of authority. and her timid nature (in the novel, 'plain face'), and lack of martial ability give her no advantages that anyone in the cultivation world would respect

and I honestly find the realism in that frank understanding of her situation pretty refreshing bc like in real life women often didn't have that social and political power and they had to live their lives like that anyway and she's still a full human being with her own desires and frustrations and all. like that post about how yeah x female character may not have a lot of agency but that doesn't inherently mean the writing is bad or shallow or anti-feminist, it may just be an honest reflection of a society that denied women agency and an examination of their lives taking that into account

I will say I think this is a little exaggerated bc the jiangs (or at least jfm) are clearly the types of people to not force a marriage on jyl, and in this setting apparently cutsleeve marriages happen for diplomatic reasons so I can't really give it too much credit for strict adherence to setting accuracy, but it DOES recognize the reality of her role in her social situation instead of ignoring it so. I would hardly call it feminist but it's worth mentioning at least. I think

[neverdoingmuch]

i wonder what an au where jc dies after the fall of lotus pier would be like. wwx goes back to save jc and he’s just that bit too late, wen chao had made wen zhuliu crush his gc and then immediately killed him. it takes everything wn has to drag wwx away and he eventually has to knock him out. when wwx wakes up he’s in yiling and wq is sitting by his bedside. without even glancing up from the herbs she’s currently chopping she tells him that she’ll kill him if he so much as makes a threatening move in her direction. 

now, one of my favourite head canons is that wwx is a massive fan of wq’s work. there was no oh whoops i conveniently stumbled across your gc transfer theory. no, yzy figured out that whipping wwx didnt actually stop his behaviour so once she decided to try and make him sort books in their library instead. jokes on her, wwx read all of wq’s published work and a bunch of other cultivators’ too and he started actively going to hang out in the library after. 

anyway! wwx wakes up sees wq and very much does not fanboy over her bc uhhh jc just died and so did everyone else. instead he forces himself to take the time ot work through his feelings. jyl is safe in meishan and she’ll probably be safe there for a long while -- everyone knew yzy and jfm’s relationship was bad so there’s no reason why the wens would think to look for jyl at her mother’s maiden sect. but,,,, she will be the new sect leader. with jc gone there’s no one else and jyl was never meant to be sect leader -- she was like her father in personality, but lacked his hidden strength and spine. how could she when she was too weak to back up her words with force? with her weak core and poor health, she was always the target of assassins and kidnappers and now that jyl has to step up to be sect leader it’s going to be worse. 

and wwx has already broken his promise to jfm and yzy -- he hasn’t been able to protect jc, wasn’t able to stop him from abandoning wwx in that market, wasn’t able to stop him from going back to lotus pier, wasn’t able to stop the wens from killing him -- but he can save jyl. 

he has to make a choice, right here and right now. he can step up and be the strength behind jyl’s words and stand behind her like his father did to jfm or he can give her all of his strength so she can stand by herself. he can slip off the bed and kowtow and beg wq to transfer his golden core to his shijie or he can make sure no one ever gets close enough to her that she’ll fear the weakness of her own golden core. in either situation, he has nothing but jyl’s life and safety to care about and he will never think of anything else again.

[wangxianficfinder]

Fic Finder

Sep 18th

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1. Hi! I don't know if this has been asked before but I'm looking for a fic. It had multiple chapters and might have been mostly from LWJ POV. (spoilers for the fic basically) I only remember clearly that in one of the later chapters it is revealed that WWX took the fall for JC who had set off a cigar fire. Thank you!

FOUND! Nursery Rhymes by manaika (M, 96k, WangXian, NieLan, Modern AU, Inexperienced WWX, Experienced LWJ, Reconciliation, Budding Love, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Unreliable Narrator, Medical Inaccuracies, Slow Burn, Past Character Death, Childhood Trauma, Found Family, Past Injury, Nurse! WWX, Doctor! LXC, Teacher! LWJ, Character With A Heart Condition (Major), Past Incarceration (Major Character), Underage Character With Leukemia (Minor))

NOT FOUND! Insert Coin Now for Extra Life by TriviasFolly (E, 201k, wangxian, modern, ABO, Intersex Omegas, Omega WWX, Alpha LWJ, Marriage contract au, Twitch Streamer WWX, fluff and smut, caring for other while sick, Possessive LWJ, Rare Male Omegas, Pack Dynamics, Sugar Baby vibes, Eventual Smut, Brief mention of lwj/others)

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2. hi - apologies if you have answered this and i missed it, or please ignore if i haven't waited long enough! i really appreciate all you guys do! I'm looking for a longish fic - cloud recesses classes WY gets whipped after JZ/JY engagement broken, recovers in CR while creating talismans. Wens attack and WY explodes heads. ACE JZ, badass Madame Jin, NH sets up JY/NM, WY grabbed by WR, LZ comes to save him and they kill WR. I've tried searching hashtags, but just can't find it -can you help? @oldoni

FOUND? 🧡 To have and to hold by Moominmammashandbag (M, 78k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Angst, Hurt/Comfort, Major character injury, CQL verse, Happy Ending)

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3. Hello Mojo!! I've always used your blog to find missing fics, but this'll be the first time I send in a an ask!!

I read this fic a long time ago and forgot to bookmark it, the premise was Jiang Yanli was engaged to Lan Zhan but she was in love with Jin Zixuan. So Wei Ying, doing what he does best and offers to take her place.

He's invented a talisman that changes his body to look like Yanlis, the catch is that it affects his health everything he uses the talisman until it eventually hurts him to the point of near death. And he falls in love with Lan Zhan along the way.

Can you help me find this fic?

FOUND? 🔒 You Free Your Mind In Your Androgyny by retired (misbehavingvigilante) (E, 368k, WangXian, JC & JYL & WWX, NHS & WWX, Canon Divergence, Angst with a Happy Ending, Bodyswap, Crossdressing, Dysfunctional Family, Gender Dysphoria, Hurt/Comfort, Identity Porn, Mistaken Identity, Misunderstandings, Transphobia, Self-Worth Issues, Suicidal Thoughts, Trans WWX)

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4. Hiii there was a fic where wei ying was chased by a dog and took shelter in lan zhans house. i remember wy having a panic attack and lz calming him, and ig he had a cat called bunny?? idk this was on the first chp. and it was a long fic ig?? Anyways hope you can find it!! @for13years-i-play-inquiry-foryou

FOUND? leave all your love and your longing behind by ScarlettStorm (E, 143k, WangXian, Modern AU, no magic, Meet-Ugly, Panic Attacks, autistic lwj, neurodivergent wwx, the neighborhood asshole dog, if you’ve met one then you know, Hurt/Comfort, Pining, Minor Angst, major shenanigans, Happy Ending, for everyone including the asshole dog, Eventual Smut, switch rights, Sex Toys, horny yearning, Masturbation)

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5. Hii I am desperately looking for a fic. It is around cloud recess time and wwx is a genuis and gets recognized by the Lans and they treat him well. I remember super specific stuff like there was an elder who blew something up to reroute a river because he needed the water for fire savety and he is kind of mentoring wwx. And some of the elders imply to lwj to court wwx. And there is a kind of scholar equivalent to a discussion converence and the Jiang scholars get so much shit from the Lans for not supporting wwx talent because he is like a once in a generation genius and they usually have systems in place to support people like that but the Jiangs were afraid of madam yu i guess. Thats most of what I remember. I really hope it still exists somewhere... @frankensteins-gendercrisis

FOUND?🔒in the shadow of moonlit flowers by Reverie (cl410) (T, 56k, wangxian, LXC/NMJ, Cloud Recesses, LWJ & NHS Friendship, Developing Relationship, POV LWJ, Minor Injuries, Autistic LWJ, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, aka the Madam Yu warning, Genius WWX, Light Angst And Hurt/Comfort, WWX Protection Squad, Gusu Lan Sect, Slow Burn, Protective LWJ, LWJ-centric)

FOUND? 🧡 Stunted, Starving Juvenility by TomatenMark (E, 859k, WangXian, WIP, Fix-it of sorts, Talisman master WWX, Not JFM Friendly, Study Arc, Getting together, Fluff and Angst, Engagement)

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6. Hi! I'm looking for a f/f wangxian fic, I don't remember much about the plot but I do know in it wwx bullies young lwj and calls her a lesbian. They later meet as adults and wwx is really trying to atone for her actions. Thank you!! @blessrainydays

FOUND? Out of your system by mimilamp (E, 20k, Female WangXian, Modern AU, Rule 63, Sexual Content, Strap-Ons, jealous wwx, lan zhan FUCKS, mention of LWJ/others straight girl WWX, Y E A R N I N G, Additional Warnings In Author's Note)

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7. Hello! Here for the fic finder, please. It starts with Wangxian hunting a monster that eats dreams. At some point it catches lwj and puts him into a dream and wwx goes into the dream and sees that in it they are married? Does that ring any bells?

FOUND? Dream of Me by KingdomFlameVIII (E, 11k, WangXian, Mild Horror, Dreams, Dream Sex, Bathing/Washing, Domestic Fluff, First Kiss, First Time, Light Bondage, Hand Jobs, Anal Fingering)

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8. Hi! I'm looking for a modern au where WWX was a fox that had gotten taken to a sanctuary and he had a faded red ribbon around his neck, it fell off and he got sad about it. It possibly had his name written on the inside of it? Wen Ning either ran the santuary or worked there. WWX might've been cursed to be in a fox form? I can't remember for sure. I thought I'd bookmarked it but can't find it and there's a gazillion fox!wwx fics and I'm not finding it. I can't remember more than that but hopefully someone will know. TIA!

NOT FOUND! in the arms of the angel by ScarlettStorm (E, 37k, WangXian, Modern with Magic, Fox WWX, animal rescuer LWJ, Minor pining, major shenanigans, Comedy, Smut, Getting Together, Hurt/Comfort, Adhd WWX, the mortifying ordeal of getting your head stuck in a peanut butter jar, and getting subsequently rescued by your crush, there were in fact two beds, but LWJ knows what he's about, Blowjobs, Frottage, switch rights, Scent Kink, mildly telepathic sex, courtship via kittens)

FOUND! Found: Extremely Friendly Fox by wanderingflame (T, 22k, ZhuiLing, WangXian, Modern AU, mild animal injury, Curses, Fluff, Reunions, Fox WWX, Foxxian being a lovable terror, POV Alternating, Modern With Cultivation, Tooth-Rotting Fluff, LWJ wears reading glasses because it's sexy)

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9. Hi can I ask you if you could find me a fanfiction where Wei wuxian keeps doing different ghost games and Lan Zhan keeps interrupting them, the other thing I can remember is that they're both university students and Lan Zhan is responsible for the dormitory.

FOUND?🔒Grandmaster of Demonic Party Games by Trickster_Angel (M, 50k, WangXian, Modern AU, College AU, Crack, Light Angst, Humor, Paranormal, horror, Slow Burn)

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10. Hello! Submitting a request to find a fic, cause i'm honestly at my wit's end.

It was multichapter fic and I'm pretty much sure it was finished. It's basically story, where Wei Wuxian transmigrates from modern times into cultivator setting, summoned by mistake, by his counter-part here and basically hijacked their body? And was then promptly attacked by Lan Wangji, who thought it was original

In cultivator setting, Wei Wuxian was also known as a Yilling Laozu - ancient and mad with grief over Lans killing his husband few hundreds years ago. The present Lan Wangji is reincarnation of said husband, but due Yilling Laozu Wei Wuxian not letting him go, he couldn't properly reincarnate or something? Like - he is still man's husband, Lan Wangji, but a little bit different and that stops him from falling in love with YL WWX?

(There was also something about how this Wei Ying was summoned, because Lan Wangji from that universe probably died, before they had a chance to meet.)

Anyway, after getting (i think?) stabbed by Lan Wangji he got taken to Cloud Recess, then he somehow winded up in Lotus Pier, growing close with Jiang siblings. Also, Wei Wuxian from the modern times was some kind of doctor or inventor (?) and he tried bringing some modern solutions there.

I think this think may be quite known, but i tried all the tags i thought that will work and found nothing ://

Thank you very much in advance

FOUND? Old Foreshadows by protos_metazu_ison (M, 15k, WangXian, YLLZ WWX, BAMF WWX, War, Universe Alteration, Sunshot Campaign, Rated For Violence, Timeline What Timeline, Mojo’s post)

FOUND? 🔒 Transverse by Kytrin, Mslead (E, 192k, WangXian, ChengSang, ZhuiLing, ZhenYi, Dimension Travel, Implied/Referenced Rape/Non-con, Enemies to Lovers, Transmigration, Past Lives, Canon-Typical Death, Don’t worry - he gets better)

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11. for fic finder, i've read this a few times and suddenly i can't find it- wwx gets taken by a caiyi merchant while he's on his way to dinner with lwj. the merchant is someone wwx had previously gotten along with, so it's a bit of a depressing realization that even this guy hates him.

queue a sinister array, a timely rescue by lwj, and the sobering realization that wwx can't fully escape what he's done in his past life, and it can crop up where he least expects it @stgroversfire

FOUND! Before we get started, does anyone wanna get out? by Iggysassou (E, 13k, WangXian, Married Couple, Post-Canon, mdzs canon rather than cql, 5+1 Things, Canon-Typical Violence, Hurt/Comfort, Domestic Fluff, Protective wwx, protective lwj)

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12. Hi! This is for fic finder. I'm looking for a fic where sect leader JC returns to Lotus Pier after a trip/night hunt and the junior disciples all clamour towards him. JC then picks one of the youngest disciples who gives a short report and sends them off for training. I think it might be from the pov of someone who accompanied him (LWJ? LXC?) and then I think there's a bit of commentary about the kind of sect leader JC is. I think it's likely some sort of canon divergence or time travel fic, but not sure. Thanks!

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13. hi, i’m looking for a fanfic in which jzx’s death was faked, he was found in the lake (?) by wwx, i remember people thought wwx was dead but lwj managed to find him alive in some village. lwj told jiang yanli to find wwx and after he found jzx, he was told not to sleep in the same room with jyl as she was married woman and it was inappropriate. this fic wasn’t finished

FOUND? Discarded by teawater (E, 178k, WIP, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Dying Lan children, Hurt/Comfort, YL WWX, Golden Core Reveal, Case Fic, Depression, Family Issues, Self-Esteem Issues, Self Confidence Issues, Self-Worth Issues, Angst with a Happy Ending, and it's not always dark, POV Multiple, BAMF WWX, dubious morals in the Lan sect Feels, Pining, Grief, Fix-It, BAMF LWJ)

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14. Hi! I’ve been looking for a fic I read a while ago in which WWX designs a talisman (or something) to test blood relationships and finds out he really is JFM’s son. If I remember correctly he’s already left Lotus Pier, I think he finds out with JYL and JC at Cloud Recesses? “This body yet survives” by RoseThorne comes very close but doesn’t have him as JFM’s son. Help please!

I’m pretty sure 14 is a modern era AU and they take a DNA test which reveals the siblings as wwx’s half siblings - can I locate it? Ehhh, of course not unless I get lucky with my history search

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15. I’m looking for a fic that is a modern au, no cultivation, where wwx leaves home or is driven out of his home and loses contact with his sibling and lwj. Fast forward to the future, he’s living somewhere and is with the Wen siblings? I don’t remember how, but somehow lwj finds wwx first, maybe over text? And slowly wwx starts sharing his life again? I feel like maybe wwx had been abused or threatened to never talk to his siblings again. He’s very afraid. I remember Wen Qing was very suspicious of LWJ and protective of wwx. Thanks for your help!

NOT FOUND! clean from the war (your heart fits like a key) by sysrae (E, 28k, WangXian, Modern AU, Reunions, past xy/wwx, xy is fucked up but not evil because it's a modern AU and I said so, Hurt/Comfort, Panic Attacks, past wwx/jfm, Past Rape/Non-con, Past Abuse, Rape Recovery, transphobic violence, Victim Blaming, Past wwx/others, allusions to past self-harm)

FOUND! Love Don't Belong To Me by airinshaw (E, 28k, WangXian, Modern, Getting Together, Kissing, Intercrural Sex, Light Angst, Happy Ending, PTSD, Panic Attack, WWX's canonical self-esteem issues, Canonical Child Abuse, not as dark as the tags imply, Past Relationships mention)

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16. Hello! Thanks in advance for this. I read ff earlier this year, it was post-canon I guess, Wei Wuxian is staying in cloud recesses and Lan wangji is chief cultivator (I guess). once wwx took juniors to night hunt and he kminda knew that someone will come for him, a walking corpse was searching for him specifically. after empathy wwx got to know that the walking corpse is his father. I dont remember anything other than this scene. Please help! @vbhardwaj-reads

FOUND! An Aftermath More Devastating Than The Storm by UneducatedAuthor (Not Rated, 111k, WangXian, Hurt/Comfort, Angst with a Happy Ending, Post-Canon, Everyone Loves WWX, The Junior Ensemble Love WWX, Hurt WWX, Protective LWJ, Protective LSZ, WWX Deserves Better, Genius WWX, WWX Protection Squad, Chief Cultivator LWJ, Cultivation Sect Politics, JC & WWX Reconciliation) Has Wei Changze as a fierce corpse searching for his son

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17. For fic finder, I remember it was a multichap canon dovergent wangxian fic with inventor wwx. Tho I am not sure if that tag was used. The most notable part of it was Madam Jin bringing evidence of jgs putting his lot in with wrh complete with bills, transactions, correspondences etc. Jgs tries to discredit her by being a misogynist. That's when madam Jin uses a wwx custom binding spell on him and then says "I am a quick study when I want to be" to wwx and then she says "thank you for your instruction" because she learned the spell from jzx who saw wwx teach it to jc in cloud recesses lectures. After that she tells jzx to take the sect leader's seat and there was resistance from jin elders in the same scene and also in other later chapters. It was complete and happy ending I believe for wangxian too @yiling-laozu-is-loml

FOUND? Cultivating immortality by KizuKatana (E, 231k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Rogue Cultivator WWX, Mutual Pining, BAMF WWX, BAMF LWJ, Angst with a Happy Ending, Hurt/Comfort, unreliable narrator, Found Family, First Time, novel canon relationship dynamics)

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18. Hey its my first ask so i don't know if I'm doing it right... I've been trying to find two specific fics really hard but no luck yet. I hope you'd be able to help

A) It was a post-sunshot campaign au..I think someone basically heard wwx getting yelled at by jc and flinching away from his touch. That gives rise to rumours that jc is sexually abusing wwx. Everyone starts pitying wwx and it comes to a head at some sort of banquet..?

B) A post-canon wangxian fluff fic. I think it might've been a 5+1 sort of fic but im not sure. There was one particular scene where wwx is just hanging out with other lan spouses and they are all complaining about their husband but wwx is silent cause lwj treats him really well..After he says so one of the women say "how long will it take your husband to realise if I kill you and take your place?" To which wwx replies "like right away"

I really hope you'll be able to find them

18A)

FOUND? Short Prompts by Vrishchika (M, 40k, WIP, WangXian, Originally Posted on Tumblr, Not JC Friendly, Separate Tags for Each Chapter) chapter 15 I'm sure of it

18B)

FOUND? Life before you was tragic by covalentbonds (Not rated, 4k, wangxian, Fluff and Humor)

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19. Hello! I am trying to find a fix where Wei ying get thrown to burial mound by wen Chao as a child, and then he become the protector of Yiling! He is always covered in shadows when he meet the sects! Can anyone remember the title! It is in AoW but I cannot find it! Help please!🙏 Thanks 😊 Have a wonderful day! @fallingstar77

I don't remember the name of #19 fic, but what I do remember is that it's listed on the amazing Warprize compilation you guys did.

FOUND? 💖 what price is duty, what cost is love by thunderwear (G, 18k, wangxian, Canon Divergence, WWX was never adopted by the Jiang Sect, War Prize, YLLZ WWX, Mutual Pining, First Kiss, First Time, Falling In Love, eventual dramatic confessions, Eventual Happy Ending, Angst with a Happy Ending)

FOUND? Sanctuary by Alineko (T, 45k, WIP, WangXian, XuanLi, Canon Divergence, YLLZ WWX, WWX Isn't Adopted by the Jiangs, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Cultivation Sect Politics, Sunshot Campaign, Overpowered WWX, Burial Mounds Ensemble as Family, WWX Creates a Sect | Yiling Wei Sect, Sect Leader WWX, Unreliable Narrator LWJ, Everyone Lives/Nobody Dies, Self-Indulgent, Touch-Starved WWX, Different First Meeting, POV Alternating, Other Ships Not Mentioned in Tags)

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20. Hi, Im looking for a fic that may have been deleted but i'll try here. In it LWJ takes a'yuan away from cloud recesses to raise outside of the sect after WWXs death. He builds a garden with various monuments one of which is a boulder tied down with ropes to represent the Xuanwu. Eventually he senses something and goes to the burial mounds where he drags a reborn WWX from the blood pool. He takes him home to rehabilitate. On the way he stops at an inn to bathe him. Thats all I remember<3

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[sonik-kun]

To say JC was disrespecting his sister's sacrifice by blaming WWX for her death is a bit of a reach, honestly. Especially since that's obviously his trauma speaking. Merely him trying to put the blame onto someone because sometimes, when we grieve, we feel better when there is someone to blame. Something to attribute those feelings to and hope that by hunting it down, maybe they'll finally go away? And that maybe he will finally get the answers and feelings of closure he yearns for when he does?

We see his conflicted feelings throughout the latter part of the story and how he struggled with them, after all (Which is another tragic aspect of his and WWX's character, which we can't ignore).

Even then, you could argue that in the moment, that was just how JC perceived and rationalised things. WWX did lose control at Nightless City. And whilst it wasn't intentional, and this time by the hands of someone else, rather than his own "zombies", we can see why JC would rationalise it to be WWX's fault. That's what trauma does to a person.

Also, the implications that JC sees his sister as some "commodity" is just wrong and unfairly misrepresenting his character, too. Sorry. Especially whilst he respected all of her wishes throughout. Be it her choice to marry JZX or not, despite JC and WWX hating the dude.

Allowing her that choice to either reject the arrangement (which was hugely beneficial for the sect btw and something families did back then), or accept it by choice is a big deal for a dude of that period tbh. Especially whilst JC effectively had "control" over his sister (which again, he never exercised. She was always the big sister to him, whose word he respected. We see this when he confides in her during the search for WWX during the war). So no. She wasn't a commodity for him. JC started a siege over this woman. He loved her dearly and to reduce their relationship to something so surface level is disingenuous and so not what the author wanted to convey in her work. Js.

To sum up, whilst JC was factually wrong to accuse WWX of the death of his sister, we can see beneath the surface why he reached that conclusion, regardless of the facts.

Context matters greatly here. And WWX did inadvertently bring that threat to them. What doesn't help is also the events that took place before this.

WWX refused to open up to JC when prompted. He kept things from him prior to the incident and just.. Looked culpable as heck for everything despite actually being innocent (especially since this took place not long after the death of his brother in law which was apparently by WWX's hands). All feelings of confusion, anger and grief were bound to mount up and unfortunately, WWX was going to be the outlet for all that because behind it all, there he was. Looking responsible for all that went wrong for JC (despite us as the reader knowing that there's more to the situation than that and that wasn't true. But remember, JC doesn't see what we see. So it's only natural he's going to attribute all that's gone wrong in his life to the man that was always there, somehow at the core of it -ahem. No pun intended there!-).

But all this aside, you've got to remember that JC does let WWX go in the end anyway. He drops all feelings of malice as the truth comes out and he learns that WWX wasn't actually fully responsible for everything he accused and hated him for.

To still hate JC for initially blaming WWX for the cause of JYL's death is a bit silly tbh, especially when they effectively closed that chapter at the end of the book and moved on anyway.

JC doesn't pursue him anymore for answers and nor does he continue to hold him accountable for everything. To bring up his old feelings when the book is finished and all has been put to bed is unfair tbh. Especially when some of you won't even put yourself in JC's shoes and try to come to understand how he came to that conclusion in the first place.

[fincalinde]

nice to see you back on here! if you're answering questions again, i've had something i've been meaning to ask, if you don't mind. do you have any thoughts on the things wwx and jc did for each other?

I'm never truly gone. Whenever you see a fox scurrying about its business in the twilight, I am with you in spirit. By which I mean I'm very busy but I do get a notif if someone sends me an ask.

This one has sat in my drafts for a while and it's still quite messy, but I thought I'd better just get it off the to do list and move on. So, the Twin Heroes!

I've seen quite a bit of negativity towards JC in my time, usually accusing him of all manner of iniquities that aren't actually supported by the text. To make my own position clear: I don't think JC did nothing wrong ever in his life. But I do think he's a capable clan leader and an extremely loyal brother who tried very hard to make things work with WWX.

Let's start with the biggie: WWX gives JC his core. It is an incredible act of love to be sure. Functionally it saves JC's life (he's not going to last long in that state) along with preserving the existence of the Jiang Clan itself. I don't have a problem with WWX making a unilateral decision here, because he knows JC won't agree otherwise and the stakes could not be higher. It also makes sense that the Grandmaster of Impulsive Cultivation conceals the entire thing from JC. He knows the effect the truth will have on JC, and he's just trying to get them through the current crisis and worry about the consequences later. So I think his choices are understandable in a desperate situation where there are no good options.

To be honest, what bothers me is WWX's subsequent dumbassery. My god, man, what is the point of making a monumental sacrifice for someone and then proceeding to fuck shit up for him on a regular basis afterwards?

WWX's behaviour is catastrophic for the Jiang. I understand that he's in his emo goth era and I don't expect him to make perfect decisions at all times, but the way he treads on JC's toes makes my teeth hurt. Quite probably WWX himself was never going to end up in a good place, since his demonic cultivation made him too much of a threat for the Jin (or society at large) to leave him in peace. But that's not particularly relevant to the way he undermines JC. On more than one occasion, JC is doing his best to navigate a delicate political situation and WWX clomps in with his size 13s and makes everything worse for everyone. This, as much as popular sentiment turning against WWX, is a huge driver in why they have to fake their falling out and sever ties publicly.

Meanwhile, JC makes an equivalent sacrifice for WWX—he lets himself be captured, even though it results in the loss of his core and, as far as he knows at the time, the functional extinction of his clan. This is revealed right at the end of MDZS, encouraging the reader to look back at the novel and recontextualise JC's actions throughout. JC put WWX above his own life and the continued existence of his clan. There can be no question that he made as enormous a sacrifice for WWX as WWX made for him. Their mutual ignorance of this fact for so many years is the heart of their tragedy.

But crucially, there remains a difference between WWX and JC. Because JC doesn't only come through for WWX when the stakes are high. Right up until the death of JYL, JC is the one trying to balance his responsibility to his clan with his desire to protect WWX. For a start, they fake the cutting of ties between WWX and the Jiang, when it arguably would be much less risky for JC to cut ties in actuality. JC is also the one taking further risks by allowing WWX to see JYL in her wedding clothes. He even suggests WWX gets to pick her child's courtesy name. These things show a pattern of consideration that WWX simply does not match.

Let's not forget, JC does a decent job as clan leader. He's very young, and unlike NMJ or LXC, he has to build his clan again from literally nothing. Disciples need to be recruited and trained from scratch. Lotus Pier needs to be rebuilt—without Jin gold. He's doing what needs to be done to ensure the Jiang Clan continues to exist, yet still attempting to balance that with his loyalty to WWX even as WWX becomes more and more of a liability. Yes, WWX is being affected by the resentful energy he's cultivating, but his arrogance has been present from the start. It's not that the resentful energy is creating new traits in him, but that existing traits are being exaggerated.

WWX does a lot of very admirable and brave things and he is pretty much always trying to do right by the people he cares about i.e. the Jiang and the Wenmants. The trouble is that he's fundamentally not capable of recognising the damage he's also doing. His altercation with JZX over the soup is one thing—though JC (with JGS) has to pull him off JZX and it makes a bad situation worse, it's an understandable impulse reaction to seeing his beloved shijie being mistreated. But despite the negative consequences of his impulsivity, he never learns to stop and gather more information before reacting (unlike JZX!). He continues to undermine JC by letting the whole world see that he doesn't respect his authority. This really is where I as a reader get stuck: what use is the grand gesture of the core swap when the more everyday consideration is so totally lacking?

I also think it's interesting that in the temple JGY points out to JC that if he'd stuck by WWX, no one could have done anything about it and things might have turned out quite differently. I don't think JGY is being truthful here; or at the very least, if he is being truthful then I don't agree with his assessment. It's a remark intended to goad JC and prod him where he's most sensitive, and it's successful in that regard. I'd be willing to bet that deep down JC does fear that if he'd backed up WWX then everything might have been all right and JZX and JYL would still be alive.

But it's simply not true. WWX's affiliation with the Jiang is catastrophic for them. He openly flouts JC's authority—and of course his demonic cultivation taints the Jiang by association, particularly in light of the Jin smear campaign. WWX's intervention to rescue the Wenmants is the last excuse JGS needs to do what he planned from the beginning: put a target on WWX's back. This isn't a post about whether or not WWX's actions to protect the Wenmants are moral; it's merely an observation that they put JC and the Jiang at risk by association, especially when WWX also deliberately insults the Jin in a public forum. The Jin don't exactly need to work hard to sabotage WWX's reputation: they're merely handing him the rope and he's merrily tying the noose. On a pragmatic level, an actual estrangement rather than a fake one would have been the more better option for JC if his sole priority was the wellbeing of his clan and not also his love for WWX.

On the other hand, if WWX had continued with his demonic cultivation but respected the authority of his clan leader and not undermined him in public, JC might have been more able to effectively protect him. I'm not entirely convinced by that argument, but I certainly find it more plausible than the idea that JC backing WWX would have prevented the consequences of the determined Jin smear campaign.

Essentially, my point is that I'm not splitting hairs about the degree to which JC and WWX love each other. Their love for each other is not in question. Nor is it in question that they have made equally huge sacrifices for each other. But there's the rub. What about the small sacrifices? Who is making those? More often than not, it's JC. JC has the weight of his clan's survival on his shoulders and he still does his best to remain privately loyal to WWX despite the risk it poses to his own position. He only turns on WWX when WWX's actions result in the death of JZX and JYL—JYL being arguably the only person they both love even more than they love each other. (Sorry, LWJ. You only make the leaderboard in Life 2.) Meanwhile, WWX is willing to give up his core for JC but not willing to make the effort to present a united front against political foes who are actively trying to destroy them. He loves JC, but I see no evidence that he respects him.

[youhideastar]

Fit for Purpose Deleted Scenes V: Jiang Cheng

Today's deleted scenes from Fit for Purpose deal with Jiang Cheng - a topic I know a lot of commenters were curious about. Other deleted scenes posts are linked in the masterpost. I hope you enjoy!

Jiang Cheng haunts Fit for Purpose like a ghost. He barely shows up “on screen”—his only significant appearances are in the Xuanwu Cave scene and subsequent rescue—but his expectations of WWX and WWX’s desire to meet them are a driving force of the story. A big reason WWX can’t accept LWJ’s love at first is that WWX feels he needs his family’s permission to have a life of his own, and he’s sure as hell not going to get it from JC; even if, ultimately, JC might be willing to accept WWX having that life, he’s not going to say it. In the end, WWX gets that permission from the only other surviving member of the family he was raised to serve: Jin Ling. But part of the reason Jin Ling’s permission “works” is that, when he speaks, JC is speaking through him:

“Idiot,” Jin Ling says again, rolling his eyes. It’s so familiar.

Wei Wuxian smiles. His vision is blurry with tears, and he doesn’t care. “Jin Ling?”

“What?” Jin Ling scowls as he says it; that, too, is so familiar it makes Wei Wuxian’s chest ache.

Only once WWX has been “released” from his duties as a beta (as he sees them) by JL and, by proxy, JC, can he accept the happiness he’s being offered by LWJ. (Btw, the discovery that I could get around JC’s emotional constipation by having JL say things that JC wouldn’t was life-changing. 🤣 I’m definitely using my newfound power for evil in future fics haha.)

Ultimately, I’m really happy with the way that JC looms over the story, discernable mostly secondhand or in glimpses, not seen or heard directly except once. But there was a period where I felt like that was a bug, not a feature.

There came a point where, to preserve the structure of the story (alternating present day with flashbacks) I needed to come up with one last flashback scene, which would be the final flashback chronologically (the JYL flashback, which is the final one, is the only one out of chronological order – it had to be that way). I convinced myself that that missing flashback scene needed to have to do with JC, precisely because he shows up so little. Plus, I knew readers would be very curious about what JC’s take on all the beta stuff was (and comments confirm this!) I rewatched the entire post-resurrection arc, trying to find a scene that I could use. Ultimately, I realized trying to feature JC was a mistake, and I went with the Episode 50 NHS scene instead, where WWX thinks about how NHS brought him back to life in order to use him. But I wasted a week of drafting trying to get JC to talk about his feelings, and here’s how it went:

First, a take on the scene where WWX and LWJ bow in the Jiang family shrine. Because this follows the “I do not want to be to Wei Ying what others have been”/So then what do you want to be to me? scene, I liked the idea of WWX very blatantly discounting the idea that he could possibly be marrying LWJ.

As they complete their bows in the Jiang family shrine and sit back on their heels, Wei Wuxian half-laughs under his breath as something occurs to him: three bows, in front of his—well, the fact that Jiang-shushu and Yu-furen aren’t his parents is only one of a long list of things that separates these three bows from a wedding, starting with the fact that Wei Wuxian isn’t qualified.

“Wei Ying.”

He turns. Lan Zhan is watching him patiently.

“It’s nothing,” he says, shaking his head. He’d been so cavalier about that when they were kids – messing with Lan Zhan’s forehead ribbon, trying to touch it all the time. He knows better now.

He wants to be careful with Lan Zhan, now.

JIANG CHENG SHOWS UP.

“Bad enough you go wandering around Lotus Pier like it belongs to you,” A-Cheng snarls, as Wei Wuxian scrambles to his feet. “But you come to disturb my parents, my sister, with this… this farce?”

Jiang Cheng, on the other hand, understands perfectly that this is meant to be a wedding.

“A-Cheng—”

“Don’t. You. Dare.”

WWX calling JC and JYL “A-Cheng” and “Jiejie” is one of the subtle but extremely key worldbuilding motifs. He gets that extra piece of intimacy, compared to canon… but oh, the price he pays for it.

“Jiang Cheng. Lan Zhan and I just came to pay our respects—”

“Is that what you call it?” A-Cheng looks away. “You always had to be so extreme. It’s not enough for you to abandon Yunmeng Jiang Sect and our family – you have to do it right in front of my parents, and expect them to bless this—this—”

“I’m not asking Yu-furen and Jiang-shushu to bless anything. We just came to light incense.”

“That’s not what I saw. You never had any shame. But you, Lan-er-gongzi – everyone says you’re so upright.”

JC thinks of WWX marrying mostly in terms of him leaving the sect (although he also calls a wedding involving a beta a “farce”). Hypocritical, since WWX has very much already been kicked out and made unwelcome! But a JC who was of only one mind about whether he wants WWX to come back would be, frankly, totally unrecognizable. The ambivalence is baked-in.

Ultimately, that scene was not contributing to the arc of the story for a number of reasons, starting with the fact that it was way too long, and it pulled the focus away too much from LWJ and WWX. JC has a way of taking over scenes that he’s in. 🤣 He’s so loud!

So then I’m like, okay, let’s do the climactic convo in Guanyin Temple. One advantage: it’s so salient to fans that I barely need to do any setup to establish where and when we are.

“Wei Wuxian.” The flickering light of hundreds of candles plays over A-Cheng’s face, taut with rage. A drop of blood falls from the wound on his chest onto the temple floor. “Do you want me to bow down in thanks for your selflessness? Should I put my face to the floor and apologize for not acknowledging your noble sacrifice—”

“It wasn’t any of those things,” Wei Wuxian says. His hands ache, clenched in his lap. “It wasn’t noble, or selfless, I didn’t do it to be acknowledged, I—it was my duty, A-Cheng, that’s all it w—”

“I don’t want your duty!” A-Cheng screams, his face a mask of pain. “I want—”

He chokes. Coughs. Blood trickles over his lower lip.

Before he can finish wiping it away, Jin Guangyao returns. There’s no time, then, for A-Cheng to finish what he meant to say.

It doesn’t make sense, Wei Wuxian thinks, remembering it later. What was the whole promise of the Twin Heroes of Yunmeng about, if not about duty?

I was pretty sure that it would be clear to readers that JC is saying he doesn’t want WWX’s duty, he wants WWX’s love. If I could have gotten this scene to write, it would have been a really nice complement to the final Jin Ling scenes – showing that WWX’s inability to understand that he is loved unconditionally ultimately sabotages his family relationships as well as his relationship with LWJ.

But the scene would not write, partly because JC is wrong. Yes, he wants WWX’s love, and wants WWX to stay with him and serve him out of love. But he also wants WWX’s duty. He wants WWX to keep his promises. He wants WWX to fill the role that society has ordained for him, just the way JC himself feels constrained to do, for all his life. Again: the ambivalence is baked-in.

And I trusted readers would know that – that they would have the same question WWX has at the end of this scene. But having WWX flag it both felt clumsy and failed to provide closure to the scene. And not flagging it at all, letting JC’s statement to unchallenged, would have damaged my credibility with readers who might think they were expected to take JC’s statement at face value.

Undeterred, I took another swing at Guanyin Temple.

“Wei Wuxian!” In Guanyin Temple, the flickering light of hundreds of candles plays over A-Cheng’s face, taut with anguish. “Do you want me to bow down in thanks for your selflessness? Should I put my face to the floor and apologize for not acknowledging your noble sacrifice?”

“A-Cheng. Stop,” says Wei Wuxian. He’s so tired. He wishes they’d never come here. “That wasn’t—it wasn’t noble. It was just… what I owed to Yunmeng Jiang—”

“What you owed? What you owed us was to stay!” A-Cheng snarls, eyes wet. His clenched hands rise to his chest. “That’s what it means to have a beta, they stay – A-Jie got married and left, we knew she would get married and leave, but you—we were supposed to be everything to you. You promised… we’d be everything to you.”

He looks so young, for a moment; breakable. Wei Wuxian aches.

Then the lines of age and pain carve themselves into his brother’s face again. “Your home, your family… that’s enough for every other beta. But not for the great Wei Wuxian,” A-Cheng finishes bitterly, as he turns away.

Wei Wuxian aches. “You were enough, A-Cheng—”

“No,” A-Cheng spits, low. “You had to have your heroics. You had to have him.” He jerks his head at Lan Zhan, who looks coldly back. “The great Wei Wuxian, the Yiling Laozu, could never have been just a sect leader’s subordinate. Every other sect has betas who act like a beta should act. Who know their place. I’ll never know what Yunmeng Jiang did to deserve you.”

I think this scene is on the right track, actually. But it raises issues that just cannot be resolved in a little half-page vignette. You can see me trying to bring the focus back to Wangxian at the end of this bit, but it’s not enough – JC is yet again taking up all the air in the room, bless his heart. And it would have been a distraction.

It was at this point that I realized that I didn’t need to shove more JC into the story, because he’s already so present, even if only by implication. And if readers were curious about his role, it wouldn’t do the story any harm to let them come to their own conclusions.

For what it’s worth, my take is that JC has no problem with the way that society treats betas – and why should he? He’s been raised to believe that this is all totally normal. And don’t forget, WWX’s sexual availability is framed by alphas and omegas as a benefit to WWX, something they’re jealous of, “oh, how lucky for you that you can have sex with whoever you want instead of just your spouse!” It’s not that he sees WWX being taken advantage of and is okay with it—he does not perceive WWX to be taken advantage of in the first place. And that makes sense, because neither does WWX! But, at the same time, JC loves WWX very much, and he demonstrates with his actions again and again that he doesn’t buy the idea that WWX’s life is worth less than his, or that it’s WWX’s purpose to sacrifice himself for JC. To me, that’s peak JC: do not expect him to challenge structural oppression, but by God, he will walk to hell and back on bare feet for the people he loves.

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed! Tomorrow's batch of deleted scenes specifically focus on Wangxian.

[violet-lotus]

Okay. Here's to the antis crying that Jiang Cheng should have done more for the Wen Remnants.

Just no. WWX had already proclaimed himself an enemy when he intruded upon a conference at Koi Tower to threaten that he'd kill whoever dared to stop him from rescuing the Remnants. Anyone, especially YMJ would be committing political and literal suicide by aiding with WWX.

YMJ would not have been able to survive that. They had just survived a mass massacre and a long war. In a climate made on hierarchy, JC is in his young 20s. He has no allies.

His current Sect is made of a thrown together a collection of rouge cultivators and fresh disciples he had to train in less than a few months right after he survived watching his Sect burn, being tortured, and losing his core. Then, WWX was gone.

Still, JC went to war. To avenge his family, his people, his land, and to protect them from a tyrant. With WRH down, now JGS is the next. And we see the direct and very public pressure JGS puts on JC to distance from WWX.

Just because 'JC is a Sect Leader' doesn't mean he has more influence than JGS and the elders of the Jin Sect. Maybe the Lan's would have had that respect, but they had their own issues to resolve and their own alliances to maintain.

Speaking of which, YMJ needed their alliance with the Jin's. Only then would JC have more sway. As allies, there would be less incentive to destroy YMJ. There would also be public scrutiny cast on the Jin's should they openly damage their alliance with YMJ. Scrutiny that JGS and JGY do not want when they are conducting nefarious schemes to gain control (see Xue Yang in his extra with JGY).

With JC actively working to make peace with the Jin's, in addition to having JZX engaged to JYL, JC is able to take the attention and pressure off WWX and the Wen Remnants. The people don't want to focus on the threat that WWX is to their lives, their culture, and their loved ones (if they get raised from death and cut off from the circle of reincarnation). They talk about the grand wedding hosted between the Jin's & Jiang's. They talk about the birth of JL and his celebrations.

In fact, when JC tells WWX that he can't protect him if he defends the Wen Remnants, WWX flat out /rejects/ him. (So what are you crying to JC for?) WWX believes he can protect them himself. And he does. For almost a couple of years.

When does it go wrong? When WWX leaves BM and is on his way to attend JL's celebration.Jin Zixun ambushes & scapegoats him (endorsed by JGS!) WWX loses control of WN and WN murders Jin Zixuan.

JZX, who was the one to invite WWX despite knowing the opposition it would bring to him and DID cause.

Even in the ridiculous situation of JC housing the Remnants in LP (nvm his and his people's trauma of the Wen's), the Jin's scheming to murder would have happened to WWX regardless of where he was with the Remnants.

It's f*cked up. But does JC have control over JGS and JGY? No. So stop blaming JC for their downfall. It was on WWX to protect the Wen's and to control WN, no one else.

(Note, if JZX, his firstborn son and Sect Heir, could not persuade JGS and his clan to back off from WWX, what makes you think JC could?)

Afterwards, WN and WQ both decide on their own that in order to answer for the deaths at Qiongqi Path and JZX's murder, that they comply to the Jin's demand. They go voluntarily.

They tell WWX that they are grateful to him for the extra year of life and peace he gave them.

They leave with no regrets.

Again, I must ask you, why blame JC for their deaths?

JC knew that their ruin would eventually occur and tried to warn WWX. JC tried to stop it from happening by killing WN when he was uncontrollable and unpredictable, when WN had no conscience. But JC doesn't kill him. Bc WWX told him not to.

(WN nearly breaks out of BM but luckily LWJ happened to be there to help WWX subdue him and somehow restore his conscience, which WWX never knew would happen. So JC's concerns were not unwarranted.)

Forget and ignore at your convenience, but JC DOES speak up for WWX's actions and reasons for defending the Wen Remnants. No one else does. (Again, see my previous thread.) At the Pledge Conference, where the Sects are deciding what to do about WWX after JZX's death at Nightless City, it would not be hard to assume JC would try to not have them execute WWX. In the end we don't know, but we can say that he was unhappy with their decision to hunt down WWX for good.

After years of persuading others to not take offence to WWX's words & actions, of lessening the load of WWX's disciplinary punishment, of standing at his side & understanding WWX without needing words to be spoken, it would be absurd to say JC ever stopped trying to protect him.

But JC is only human. He could only protect WWX, and when WWX rejected his help, he could not do much else. He could only delay the inevitable.

He could not have protected the Wen Remnants even if he wanted to. Just like how WWX wanted to save them, but couldn't in the world that they live in where an eye for an eye is never enough, and the consequences of their actions never die no matter what their intentions are.