#loki s2 theory

[loki-us]

It’s the casual way Mobius sets his chaotic boyfriend The God of Mischief loose on everyone. Mobius is so attuned to Loki, he immediately knows how he’s going to react, offering him a gentle warning or permission to proceed. And Loki carefully waits for that permission before he acts, implying this is a familiar dynamic that’s been established beforehand.

[loki-is-my-kink-awakening]

Okay, I wanna talk about this scene and what it might mean for Loki and Mobius in S2.

Sure, they stood here so Loki could point at the panel showing all the Kangs fighting, and the full mural is meant to be the story of how the Time Keepers created order out of chaos, but what if it also means something else.

Let's look at Mobius first, then Loki.

Mobius POV

Mobius is standing with his back to a panel representing chaos and looking at one that represents order, showing the Time Keepers appearing as gods to shocked people below. Seems very religious and mythological, right?

Mobius had always believed in order and that what the TVA were doing, ripping people from their lives, was necessary.

He also has previously likened Loki's origins, which is literal mythology in mcu form, as similar to his own experiences in the TVA.

"If you think too hard about where any of us came from, who we truly are, it sounds kinda ridiculous."

Now, he knows the Time Keepers are fake, that he wasn't created by them. By this point in the episode, he's already acknowledged to B-15 that their gods are dead.

What he isn't aware of is who exactly was behind the curtain or that all-out war is coming. That's something Loki reveals to Mobius, showing him the truth in his blindspot (the panel behind him).

This revelation for Mobius feels pretty similar to how the truth was revealed to Loki in S1E1.

Mobius is also looking at a panicked Loki. He's seen him teary-eyed before, but not this distressed.

What Mobius sees before him is his fear, that Loki won't be able to escape the bonds of the sacred timeline, that he's doomed to die, and that pains him.

And one last thing. Loki is a god of mischief, and I can't help thinking about the comparison of a real god Mobius can see in front of him and the fake Time Keepers in the panel behind Loki.

Loki POV

Meanwhile, Loki is looking at chaos that scares him. The panel has several Kangs all fighting for supremacy in a pose that was similar to that shown by Kang in S1E6.

Loki is the god of mischief, who thrives on chaos, and yet the prospect of all these Kangs frightens him.

War is the only thing preoccuping his mind. It's the only thing he can see.

But behind him are the Time Keepers, and we know they are fake, but what if the truth Loki has to face is that while he no longer wants a throne, he might need to take it to save the people he cares for, his found family.

Loki is looking at Mobius, who's concerned about him and a little rattled, but ultimately keeping his calm. I think this calm is likely to fracture the more season 2 progresses.

What Loki sees before him is his fear, that Mobius will be caught up in the war and lost to him. It's a reminder of what's at stake if he doesn't restore order. And he's already experienced a Mobius who didn't know him, and that was heartbreaking.

What this scene also does is continue both Loki and Mobius being mirrors for each other, revealing truth and reflecting one another.

They are similar to each other in many ways. We saw glimpses of Mobius embracing chaos in S1, which I always love to see. And I can't wait to see more of these soulmates. They are important to one another.

And I haven't even spoken about all the touching, that Mobius doesn't want to lose Loki and Loki is just so desperate to get to Mobius, but I think other people have covered that.

Thanks to @lgwilt and @insert-witty-user-name-here for discussing this theory with me. I added in your glorious insights because what you said really resonated with me.

And just a wee note to everyone that this is just me theorising, and usually my theories do not happen, but I couldn't help pondering if this mural had an even deeper meaning. I just like theorising for fun.

Hopefully, the above made some sort of sense.

[cherrishnoodles]

Idk if this makes sense, but talking abt the Jane/Thor and Lokius parallels, you guys know how Jane searched for Thor with her equipment because that's how she found him in the first place?

Do you guys think Mobius got some sort of understanding or like remembered that Loki found him on his timeline last time, so he went back hoping to find him again? Yk?? LIke Jane is doing ??? idfk I'm insane

[percheduphere]

Loki Season 2 - End Game Theories Part 2

Part 1: (read here)

Part 2:

5.) Mobius's Plotline

6.) Sylvie's Role

7.) John = Mobius?

8.) The Original Timekeepers & Time Paradoxes

He is so wounded and lost. If he can't get a hug from anybody, he'll settle for something sweet to eat.

MOBIUS'S PLOTLINE

As I mentioned in Part 1 of my theory dump, Mobius is narratively positioned to be at his lowest point. Renslayer claims he cannot make the hard decisions or the sacrifices required to do what must be done, Brad accuses Mobius of being a nobody, and Sylvie accuses Mobius for not taking the danger facing the multiple timelines seriously (more on this in Sylvie's section).

*Sidenote: I bet Mobius has a really common name like John. More on this in John = Mobius? section.

With the latest screen captures of the mid-season trailer, it's confirmed we will see Mobius in his original timeline, but we don't know HOW he gets there. I believe there are 3 possibilities:

1.) The Loom explosion immediately throws everyone back into their original timelines (with possible exception to the gods).

2.) Mobius, with the TVA falling apart, chooses to return to his original timeline, believing that he is not necessary and will only cause more harm.

3.) The TVA and its inhabitants (with exception of the gods) slowly spaghettify and Mobius bids Loki farewell.

The images below suggest #2 and/or #3, but Loki's attire gives me pause. Unless he travels backwards or forwards in time, who would put him in the jumpsuit and collar in the present? Himself via magic, to relive how they first met before a final goodbye? If it is a final goodbye, why are they not embracing like in S1? Because it's too painful?

I wish I could figure out the timing of this moment because of its impact on the story.

If it happens BEFORE Mobius returns to his original timeline, we know Loki and Sylvie will seek him out.

If if happens AFTER Mobius is returned to his original timeline, then Loki and Sylvie found Mobius, and Mobius chose not to stay.

Regardless, when Loki finds Mobius, he does not expect Mobius to have no memory of him. (Again, sigh)

Another possibility is that this Mobius is not Loki's Mobius, and that Loki's Mobius will eventually see what could have been his life as an observer. This option, however, lowers the stakes and thus seems unlikely.

Whatever the case, I think we will find that Sylvie's and Mobius's narrative positions will be reversed in the last 2 episodes. Pre-Loom explosion, Loki and Mobius needed to convince Sylvie to join them. Post-Loom explosion, Loki and Sylvie will need Mobius back.

But the cost will be exceptionally high. Mobius was right: he knew knowing his life being incredibly good will tempt him away from the TVA and all the responsibilities, violence, and stress that come with it. He will need to give up his dream job, a lovely home in the suburbs, and family. Mobius won't be the only one challenged by making this choice, the weight of it will fall on Loki's shoulder's, too, and Loki needs to articulate how much Mobius means to him because Mobius has been more vocal and active in tending to their relationship, Ep 2 not withstanding.

We know why Loki would be motivated to find him, but what would motivate Sylvie to bring Mobius back? How can she help Loki facilitate this?

SYLVIE'S ROLE

We know that Sylvie has the ability to see other people's memories through enchantment. It's possible she will either share her memories with Mobius directly or act as a conduit between Loki and Mobius. The latter makes more sense since Loki has more positive memories of Mobius at the TVA than Sylvie does. I think she will offer to do this because: 1.) She wants to protect her timeline, and 2.) Like Loki, she will come to realize Mobius means more to her than she thought.

From what we've seen of Sylvie in her 1982 McDonald's timeline, she understandably wants nothing more than to live a calm life and make friends of her own. All of this is perfectly valid, and she is deserving of a peaceful life.

Her outburst at Mobius during the pie scene strikes me as a projection of her own guilt and feelings of helplessness, which she does not yet have the tools to deal with in a healthy way. Sophia is an exceptional actress: her micro-emotions shift from guilt to anger so quickly it is almost imperceptible if you're not watching closely. Sylvie is very much Loki as he used to be: deflecting responsibility by blaming others, mocking softness as a weakness, outbursts of yelling and violence. She wants to be left alone! And yet ...

*Sidenote: I jumped out of my seat when I saw that kid's name tag: it says "John", my personal original timeline name for Mobius since forever ago.

This is a lie. Sylvie never wanted to be alone. She wanted a place to feel happy and safe.

Look at that smile. Are you kidding me? How can anyone hate her? Mobius wants pie and hot cocoa. Sylvie wants a fast food job. Both want the comfort of normalcy. So does Loki. All of them deserve happiness.

She seems to have found a degree of these things in the 1982, Broxton, Oklahoma, Branched Timeline. Someone, however, enabled her to make a living there by getting her a job at a fast food chain ...

JOHN = Mobius?

This theory is quite a reach since the timeline is a branch, but the dates map out just right. If John (Mobius?) can't drive yet in 1982, he'd be 15, which makes his birthday 1967. Assuming this story is set in 2023 and John is Mobius, that makes John/Mobius 56. Owen Wilson is 54. Pretty darn close! I mean, look at that hand-hip pose and brown/neutral color scheme, not to mention his enthusiasm for the menu. The tie suggests he's a shift manager (someone with promising leadership skills), and he has a distinct accent.

If this kid pays off as being teen!Mobius, then I don't doubt Sylvie has a certain affection for him. In the parking lot, she asks if his mom is going to pick him up and he assures her, yes, he'll be okay. He then asks if he will see her at work the next day, and she in turn assures him she will. (If someone can find a gif of this, please let me know!) What was the point of this interaction, if not to show that Sylvie is capable of making friends and showing care towards others? If John is in fact Mobius, then what irony: they will soon create the TVA and work alongside one another again!

Sylvie will likely also feel more compassion towards Mobius if she met him as a teen. She seems to have a soft spot for kids, seeing as she gave a kid a Kablooie! which allowed Mobius and Loki to find her in S1. If John isn't Mobius, then Sylvie has at least 1 person in a timeline to protect, and that will motivate her to bring Mobius back.

They will be friends. We know, based on the image below, that they're going to make amends. We know it's going to be okay. They will unite as the 3 timekeepers because it is the right and hard thing to do. Sylvie will stay and (at least until HWR is dealt with) so will Mobius.

THE ORIGINAL 3 TIMEKEEPERS AND TIME PARADOXES

I've written before in asks to @bebx and @mobius-m-mobius that I believe the story is in a timeloop, whereby killing HWR triggers a series of events which causes Loki (and possibly Sylvie) to recruit Mobius, B-15, and Casey from their respective timelines, which means their pasts. Because the TVA is destroyed by the Loom explosion, the TVA consequently needs to be created.

And I suspect the Loom, which constrains the number of branches that can exist, was put in place by HWR after the TVA was formed by the Loki and Sylvie when they went into the past to recruit the people they've already worked with.

HWR said, "See you soon" after Sylvie kills him.

Because the Loom exploded, the Loom no longer exists.

Since the Loom no longer exists, multiple timelines come to being with variants of Kang.

Loki, Mobius, and Sylvie form an alliance against Kang to protect all timelines.

To do this, Loki and Sylvie must find Mobius in his timeline, which for the purposes of the TVA, takes place in the past.

The TVA is therefore created in a past that is running along concurrent timestreams in which the TVA already exists or is in the process of being destroyed. Remember: branches run concurrently but at different points in time. Sacred Timeline Loki's timestream is ahead of L1130 Loki's timestream; LL1130 Loki is in Sacred Timeline Loki's past before he diverges.

The TVA's original purpose was to monitor for threats like HWR and combat him.

At some point, HWR and Ravonna infiltrate the TVA and wipe everyone's memory. Note that Loki suspects it's happened more than once. They likely do this on a different concurrent timestream while Loki, Mobius, and Sylvie are actively forming an alliance and combating him in another concurrent timestream. This is why the original 3 timekeepers are consistently missing. They are in the TVA's past and future at the same time but never truly in the TVA's present. HWR rules the TVA's present.

They wipe memories once (1) to make everyone forget the original timekeepers (Loki, Mobius, Sylvie) when HWR wants to be responsible for the Sacred Timeline. His image is then brought to the TVA, the Loom is installed, and pruning begins. HWR ensures that only his temporal aura can access systems when Miss Minutes overrides TVA's control.

They do it a second time (2) to make everyone forget HWR when he gets tired of his role and wants to retire via death. The 3 timelords imagery and robots are put in place to create a lore based on fact.

HWR, being a megalomanic, does not want anyone else to govern time even though he's too fed-up with it to do it himself. He will count on another HWR to do this form him.

HWR paving the road for Loki and Sylvie to find him was never about giving them the power to govern time (lies!). He needed them to facilitate a timeloop in which HWR always returns to create and control the sacred timeline in the TVA's present.

Sylvie kills him. The "end of time" takes place. The timelines branch uncontrollably. The Loom explodes. Loki, Sylvie, and Mobius build the TVA in the past.

Rinse and repeat.

The loop in itself calls into question free will.

Loki, Sylvie, and Mobius need to figure out how to break out of the loop.

This is a lot! If you made it this far, thank you so much for reading. I hope you enjoyed. Let me know what you think!

[clarcced]

Chekov's Heart Shaped Gun - An Analysis Of What Love Means In Loki (TV)

What Sylki actually means and why it’s not romantic love. / How S1E3/4 and S2E5 prove that love is who one calls home. / How Lokius will prevail.

Let's begin our analysis in s1e3.

Sylvie says she can’t sleep when another version of themselves is around. She is stronger than most in the show, yet she lacks trust in themselves- then wakes up from her nap a scene later, but alas, her even saying that is interesting. On that note, Sylvie and Loki are variants of each other. It's only fair to say that they basically have the same trust issues.

Mobius is a trustworthy person overall but to a Loki that’s near impossible to come by as it seems. Loki sleeps soundly with Mobius literally across him, considering the fact that he too couldn't sleep around an untrustworthy person. He trusts Mobius, even before he met Sylvie.

Moving on, Loki takes the glasses offered to them on the train and drinks both upon Sylvie’s refusal to drink hers. The glasses and their contents are identical and have a green tint to them- which is symbolism to establish the fact that Loki and Sylvie are in fact the same person- in variance, supported by the cinematography of this scene: mirroring sides.

Loki drinking both can mean three things all together in this context which I transformed into sentences because I lack in English vocabulary:

“See, I am you, you can trust me.” – Which she doesn’t.

“I take what comes my way.” – Loki doesn’t go around looking for love in any shape or form and takes what is thrown at him – resulting in “whim-prone” actions.

“I can have my cake and eat it too.” as in Sylki stuff- which sounds like clumsy and desperate flirting to me, honestly. There is also the element of Loki’s massive ego in this context, which turns into self love and becomes less (self/)destructive as the show progresses throughout S1 and S2.

Why did they address Loki’s bisexuality in the show specifically? Verbal “representation” without context? That’s below this well-thought-out show’s writers.

I keep coming back to the wording.

"Would-be-princesses" - plural, derogatory (as in aspiring to be, but not one) "Another prince" - single, specific

[Note: I saw some people posting that the timeline name of Mobius "Don" means 'prince', but couldn't find that specific definition myself in any online dictionary/baby names site. Best definition I could find was "brown, chief, noble" over on Wikipedia, so for now let's refrain from that specific definiton and focus on what is given to us plain and straight. I'll make this note make sense in the end of this analysis.]

Or could it be perhaps to give them a common ground to stand on? Nope. They don’t stand on that common ground, not even for a minute.

A drink. (Ding ding ding!!!!)

Yes, a drink. When he gets that drink, he sings an Asgaridan (well, Norwegian) song:

In storm-blackened mountains, I wander alone

Across glaciers, I travel forth

In the apple orchard the fair maiden stands

And sings, "When will you come home?"

When she sings, she sings, "Come home."

So who’s the maiden exactly? Loki dedicates the song to Sylvie, but never says it was specifically written for a romantic love interest. Not gonna lie, I might be reaching here, but hear me out: the lyrics can go both ways. They talked about their mother and how Sylvie barely remembers hers. So, Loki, as he is, sings about a traveller coming home to a maiden, possibly his mother or lover, depending on the context at which the song is directed towards.

The only time we see Loki truly helpless against the world is when he mourns his mother. The purest form of love he has ever received, gone. Upon their conversation with Sylvie about what “love” is, Loki disagrees with it being mischief itself, instead takes time and a couple drinks and sings about a fair maiden- his mother calling him home. That is the only type of love he has truly ever felt for another.

Now imagine singing a song about your mother to another variant of yourself. Mommy issues much? Sure. Bad way to flirt? Absolutely. He basically shows Sylvie what he thinks love means to him, but also establishing a connection with Sylvie based on HIS mindset: They are the same. No matter what the maiden represents, a romantic interest or love for a mother, these two variants are of the same kind in the end.

“No. Terrible metaphor.” Sylvie says. Fast forward to 3 episodes later in s1e6 she drops the dagger she holds on Loki’s throat and proceeds to kiss him, says they’re not the same and kicks him back into the TVA.

Being a Loki is not about being a villain and losing every time, it’s about surviving. To survive, they must adapt and adapting they do. They hold hands in s1e4 and a nexus event begins. A Loki, a so-called villain, in league with another Loki. No mischief, just loving each other- by each other by this point I’m talking about THEM as ONE. They easily could’ve kissed right then if their relationship was romantic, but they didn’t. They love themselves in that moment of an approaching apocalypse.

“But I’m not you.” – As the track “Stop” plays.- [The Sylki track that also played in the scene mentioned in the previous panel.]

Loki just wants Sylvie to be okay. He wants his inner mischievous giant to be okay. He wants his inner self to be okay. But Sylvie refuses this. She kisses him BECAUSE she refuses the fact that they can ever be the same or view love the same way. To Sylvie, love is very much real in the shape of a dagger, yet she drops it to the ground, then kisses Loki. Sylvie shows Loki that love is not what Loki thinks it is.

Love is not what Loki thinks it is.

Reality isn't what you think it is. -Loki to Mobius in s2e5

Fast forward to s2e5. Loki is in conflict with himself. – Thus, time slipping.

Everyone is sent back to their HOMES. Loki remains at the TVA when others are back in their original timelines- except Sylvie. She sees that McDonalds life as her home. So, that means, these people were sent to when and where they belonged before the TVA, or in case of Loki and Sylvie their respected new homes- also giving purpose to their belonging to that place- the when, where and why.

In Loki's mind, Mobius's home IS the TVA, his purpose, his 'glorious purpose' if you will. He searches around the TVA where him and Mobius spent their time pacing around or just sitting down to have a key lime pie.

Sylvie says that they are, in fact, Lokis of the same nature.

The acceptance.

Then it turns out it wasn’t about when, where or why. It’s about WHO. Loki could never have that drink because these two variants of the same species, Loki and Sylvie, are on different paths of life and love. Their roads have crossed but went their separate ways in the end.

Home.

It's about who, right? Loki could have found himself beside Sylvie in the McDonald's, easily, if he actually saw her as home. But no. He remained in the TVA, where Mobius once called home- which apparently he does too now. He belongs in the TVA with Mobius and their friends, with or without Sylvie.

This brings us to the smoking love shaped gun.

"Must've been would-be-princesses or perhaps, another prince."

"Love is... uh, something I might have to have another drink to think about."

2 people close to him offered him the drink he's yet to enjoy: Sylvie and Mobius.

The would-be-princess and the other prince.

"It's about who." Loki says, looking directly at Mobius.

He chooses the prince.

He makes it known to Sylvie at the very end of the episode, slowly turning to her: "I can rewrite the story."

He found his purpose in Mobius. He is the "who" that'll help him rewrite the story of time. He is home.

.

Thank you for sticking around till the end of this one. I appreciate any corrections/reminders of what I've missed or got wrong.

[guardianjameslight]

Loki Season 2 Spoilers

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Who else thinks that a person who pruned Loki in this scene was future Loki?

[lamentiskiss]

Thanks to this picture of Tom and Sophia hugging on the set of Loki Season 2, we now know that Sylvie joins Loki and Mobius on their mission to the Chicago's fair.

The setting in the background is the same, the lamps are the same, you can even spot a little but of Ferris Wheel in the background in the hug.

So with that in mind, I am guessing that this magical blast which sends Victor Timely crashing out of the Wheel onto the ground (and yes, it's the same location, and yes, that IS Victor Timely, his hair, suit, even Ravonna comes to his aid) is cast by both Loki and Sylvie combining their powers again by holding hands.

Not only is the same scene, but also the magical blast looks a little too powerful to be cast by just Loki and Loki alone.

And Also, later on in, what I assume is episode 4, Loki and Sylvie again combine their magic by holding hands to defeat rogue TVA.

Sylvie offers Loki her hand, says "Don't overthink it." and Loki takes it. I think the "Don't overthink it." is a reference to the fair scene. Perhaps the first time around Loki hesitated for some reason or Sylvie just grabbed Loki's hand and shocked him or the blast was an accident.

Anyway, Loki and Sylvie likely hold hands to combine their powers at least twice in season 2. And considering how much they're focusing on the fact that Loki and Sylvie are stronger when they're together, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out they hold hands to combine their magic for the third time as well.

[shad0wmoonlight]

Vague theory for eps 5 & 6 based on nothing but hope 😅

With the stress of the loom exploding or whatever was happening, Loki is going to time slip. I think this will happen at multiple times &  locations but at some point he'll get to Mobius on the sacred timeline where he's working as a Jet Ski salesman. 

So, my theory is that Mobius isn't actually a variant at all. My theory is that Somehow Loki will convince him (either by showing him memories through magic or his charm idk) that he's needed at the TVA & Mobius will come willingly.

I mean ~ 'I'd like to thank the guy that brought me here. Got me this pie.' 👀👀

Also the fact that he hasn't looked for his timeline and no one knows it seems very suspicious from a story point of view.

I mean, have no idea how they'll save the loom but it seems clear that Loki will be doing more time slipping around the loom imploding from shots we've seen and at some point goes out onto the gangway. But we've also seen another shot of Mobius, in a worse looking suit than the 1st time, also on the gangway.

I think Loki will be in a sort of Groundhog Day situation where he keeps time slipping and trying to do things differently to save his friends and the TVA. 

I guess I don't really have a point other than I don't think Mobius is a variant & I think he came willingly with Loki. 

But at the very least someone needs to give Mobius a big hug and all the sweet treats and games he wants. He's just trying to get through the day like all of us 🥺💚

[dinurdi]

Fellas, let's just accept that Mobius will impress his beloved Loki variant in every universe in space and time.

Loki with Thor accidently meet Mobius.

*Loki doing his mischief*

Mobius: Wow! So great! ☺️

Loki: Oh...I am...😳

Thor: Shit happened to you? You're staring at the wall for last hour 🤨

Loki: ...in love ❤

God Loki: Don't you dare...

[loki-us]

I feel like we don’t talk about this scene enough. It’s the implication that Mobius knows every terrible thing Loki has ever done and has still never seen him as a villain because of it. It’s Loki intimidating Brad by saying that Mobius—the person who understands him best—would agree that Loki is capable of getting what he needs from Brad. It’s Loki admitting that Mobius is the one who knows him better than anyone else ever has. It’s the casual intimacy of the statement, just 3 ostensibly unimportant words thrown on at the end of a sentence that ultimately reveals how familiar and close they really are to each another.

[loki-is-my-kink-awakening]

Look. Look!

The 3 time keepers look pretty familiar

One with kinda horns and green eyebrows—Loki

One with a huge moustache—Mobius

And one feminine one—either B-15 or Sylvie

I swear if we don't get three of them stepping up to become the time keepers at the end, what even was the point?

I will die on this hill, lmao

And if this is how it ends, it means Mobius stays at the TVA—he doesn't get a goodbye cheek kiss but can get a proper smooch

[imalsorettish]

SPOILERS AHEAD FOR LOKI

maybe the reason why loki and mobius didnt end up together is because loki had to resolve within himself never to return to his previous life to keep all life and yggdrasil functioning and working in perfect balance.

Not that this matured and aged version of loki would abandon his post, at this point we know he wouldnt. But mobius might try to seek him out in his grief, unfolding the work loki did as god and yggdrasil and causing a whole slew of new issues. It was too much for the pacing to get done and execute the idea well.

The point of the show wasnt the romance it was the character development and redeption that led to loki sacrificing his life to become time immemorial. It wouldnt have made sense if we had just skipped to another marvel characters story and he was just in the tree w no explanation.

they took the time to carefully map out and coordinate how he got there and why and most importantly why he has stopped running and vying for power altogether because that is NOT who we know him to be.

mobius cant be with him as he is right now because loki had to do this first.

[technicalthinker]

Ok so Loki s2 have been very fun and relaxed with the Lokius dynamic, not trying to downplay it or no-homo it but instead have embraced it and made it feel genuine, funny, heartwarming etc. Like whether canon or not, they haven't tried to aggressively deny any possibility.

So with all that said,

[doctor-mccoys-sanity]

Any fan theories about after episode 4? My favourite one so far is that the TVA and everything resets and so they all go to their place on the timeline.

[percheduphere]

LOKI SEASON 2 - END GAME THEORIES PART 1

This is going to be a super long post that will need to be divided into 2 parts due to the 10 image posting limit. Here's what I'll cover:

Part 1:

1.) The Original Timekeepers

2.) Trust as a Theme

3.) Social Intelligence is a Leadership Skill

4.) Mobius's Presence Through Food - Food is Socializing ... and Friendship

Part 2: (read: here)

5.) Mobius's Plotline

6.) Sylvie's Role

7.) John = Mobius?

8.) The Original Timekeepers & Time Paradoxes

THE ORIGINAL TIMEKEEPERS

I am 99.99% certain that the original 3 timekeepers are Loki, Mobius, and Sylvie, and that we are in a time paradox by which the future influenced the past. The lore and set design have repeatedly highlighted that there have always been THREE timekeepers.

More than once, the camera has held on the TVA seal for an extended period. The seal above is from the past, when HWR was in power.

This seal is from the future:

In both cases, the image of the seal remains the same. The dagger represents Loki, the hourglass (drawn like a mobius strip) represents Mobius, and the mask (that looks like shield but isn't) represents Sylvie, who can enchant. The papers covering the text appears intentional as well, a nod to the comics, "Loki: God of Stories".

And the writers, cunning folk that they are, are counting on the most avid fans to be too busy looking for scenes supporting their ships to realize that the end game is for Loki, Mobius, and Sylvie to trust and care about one another enough to protect all time(lines), always. Please note that I'm not an anti. I love shipping! It's fun. But an awareness of shipping is also a useful tool to keep the audience distracted from the narrative and cinematic hints that are right in front of our faces. These three need to become a team. The shots below (adored by Lokius fans, including me) foreshadow this in 2 ways:

First, that Loki's character has progressed to the point that he trusts and supports Mobius. Second, that both shots are imbalanced. There needs to be a third person on Loki's other side to balance both shots' composition. The Heart of the TVA is missing its 3rd timekeeper: Sylvie.

This shot is significant for several reasons, all of which are thematically connected. Despite there being two people on either side of Loki, the shot is still imbalanced. Loki is slightly closer to Mobius. In this scene. Sylvie is positioned at a distance, demonstrating lack of trust in both of them.

TRUST AS A THEME

Stepping back for a moment, S1 predominantly focused on Loki and Mobius developing trust in one another:

By Season 2, that trust is well-established. Sylvie hasn't had enough time to build trust with either them. She continues to operate in a survivalist mindset. Her history justifies this: she's relied on herself since childhood. But not having anyone to trust is not the path to happiness, nor is it to the path to success when in the face of an annihilation event. Sylvie is still emotionally and psychologically where Loki was at the beginning of S1.

SOCIAL INTELLIGENCE IS A LEADERSHIP SKILL

I'm an older fan. If you've ever worked for a medium to large employer, the different types of managers that exist become apparent.

1. The micromanagers, managers who do not trust their staff and consequently create a tense environment that can become toxic where no one trusts one another.

2. The absent managers, managers who delegate and disappear, leaving their team feel uncared for.

3. The blurred-line manager, who's friendly and approachable but doesn't hold others accountable and doesn't know how to create and implement plans at a high level (out of fear of upsetting anyone), making their team feel frustrated with in-fighting and lost in terms of what the main goal is.

4. The authoritarian, a manager who follows the book to a T, is rigid, punitive, and has no compassion for individual circumstances.

5. The leader, a manager who takes the time to know team members individually, change their management style based on individual needs, keeps an eye on the big picture and ensure actions are taken toward it, holds people accountable but also makes time to make sure people are getting along.

Renslayer, Brad, and Sylvie tearing Mobius down are foreshadowing, plot set-up, and red herrings. Mobius is not a perfect leader, but he is a strong one by virtue of having exceptional social skills, which Sylvie doesn't have because she's never had real friends before. It's not her fault. However, it is imperative that she move beyond this.

And Loki, who has developed compassion, self-awareness, and personal accountability through Mobius's friendship and love, extends those things to Sylvie. He is gentle when he confronts her. He shares his experience with Thor because he knows where Sylvie is at mentally. But he also doesn't force her to come with him. He leaves her with the free will to choose.

MOBIUS'S PRESENCE THROUGH FOOD - FOOD IS SOCIALIZING ... AND FRIENDSHIP

In S2E4, Mobius's presence and influence are heavy in scenes in which he is not there. The pie scene is one of them, with the flickering lights and sweets sitting forlornly behind glass symbolizing that Mobius's sense of self (very much grounded in trust and hope in others, even if they are broken) is wavering. And as @charcubed noted in their INCREDIBLE meta here, everything goes wrong from this point. Why?

Having pie together was an opportunity to build trust and friendship with Sylvie.

None of them have the technical know-how to help OB, Victor, and Casey. The best thing they could have done is get out of their hair because too much overseeing leads to anxiety and anxiety leads to mistakes. Mobius knows this. What can they do in the meantime? Stress eat and integrate Sylvie as a member of the team.

Note that every moment Mobius makes to eat or drink is not only a moment to de-stress, it is also a moment he uses to bond with others and get to know them better. Renslayer (and later Loki, because he's become close enough to Mobius to know what comforts him) uses this method, too.

S1 - Whisky scene with Renslayer

S1 - Cafeteria scene with Loki

S1- Salad scene with Loki

S2 - Cracker Jack scene with Loki

S2 - McDonalds scene with Brad

S2 - Pie scene with Loki

S2 - Hot cocoa scene with Victor

Knowing what people want and care about is critical to motivating individuals, and yes, this talent can be used as manipulation when the situation calls for it.

Socializing over food is also a means of feeling less alone. We tend to eat with people we trust and care about (a tradition meant for family, found or otherwise), or at the very least want to get along with.

The second scene where Mobius's presence is felt despite not being there?

What does Victor dobwith the hot cocoa?

He gives it to D-90.

Victor gives it to D-90 out of a sense of comradery, a basic human desire to share something nice with someone and maybe make friends.

But this moment leads to tragedy. As @charcubed explained, Mobius separating from Loki led him to comfort eat via hot cocoa. The hot cocoa caught Victor's interest. D-90 goes with Victor to check out the machine. D-90 is pruned, and Victor is separated from the team. This causes a delay in getting Victor prepped and out onto the Loom gangway, which causes the temporal radiation to build up so high, it's impossible for Victor survive. The Loom consequently explodes.

PART 2 HERE!

Thank you to @bebx and @mobius-m-mobius for responding to my asks which consisted of end game theories for Loki Season 2 (here, here, here, and here), and for @wowwwmobius for supporting my thoughts. Your replies got me to feel brave enough to post everything I've been thinking in full!

[catwouthats]

I didn’t want to post anything Loki related bc I don’t like promoting Disney shit after what they did (FUCK DISNEY! they donated 2 mil to Israel. So, don’t give them money y’all), yet somehow this is RELEVANT for social issues???

Basically

Mobius- Structural Functionalism

Sylvie- Conflict Theory

Loki- Symbolic Interactionism

But Loki and Mobius flip flop a little.

If you know sociology, this probably just damaged you emotionally. If you don’t know sociology, you are probably confused. Let me explain. Also I have more I want to say about what this all means. (SEASON 2 EPISODE 6 SPOILERS)

Structural Functionalism- Basically, things like institutions (schools, prisons, etc), roles (what you are expected to do), rules, and strict control are seen as important to hold society together. Each part is needed for the system to survive (else something else will try to take the broken system’s/part’s place… usually messy. Thinks break/slow.)

Conflict Theory- A lower class is oppressed by the upper class. Belief that the systems in place are made to oppress those who don’t have the power

Symbolic Interactionism- seeks to understand relationships between people. The importance of them on an individual level. Why and how one’s personal circle affects how they interact with the world as a whole. focusing on the symbols that help us give meaning to the experiences in our life. Symbols are subjective. Everyone has a different interpretation. The meanings of these symbols can change.

Mobius- Was devoted to TVA (institution). Generally interested in how to use the system as it is. Likes the structure and set up (until later?). Doesn’t question authority (until others do. Follows norms and peer pressure). Did not want to know who he was a while (against social norms in his society that was the TVA institution)

Sylvie- TVA oppressed her all her life. She’s interested in all the people wronged by imbalanced power that is the TVA (herself and everyone along branching times). Interested in equality. Mad at bourgeois (She is passionate and didn’t know as much as Loki —WHO WAS FUCKING TIME SLIPPING SO OFC IT MADE MORE SENSE TO HIM— so ofc she gets mad and makes “rash decisions” bc in her eyes they are logical.)

Loki- Personal. Think “Why?” Questions. Why did He Who Remains do this? Why do I have to be alone? He’a affected by his family/friends. THAT is what causes him to invoke change in society. He doesn’t admit it at first, but it’s clear that he treats everything personally to him. He is a God, something I see as more symbolic rather than functional because it makes everything personal to him on a different scale. The symbol of the TVA changed it’s meaning to the tree of life because of him.

He fixed it all by fixing his personal issues… or breaking them. It’s not how real life exactly works —it’s magic— but it’s interesting. It makes an interesting point. Not that one person is the hero, but that, despite EVERYONE’s group work, still at least ONE person had to give up living (usually it’s too many).

The reason I bring this up is because, again, it is so interesting. I thought this was gonna be copaganda (that one Ep Loki says some wack shit.. which he doesn’t agree with anymore I don’t think bc he literally ripped it apart)(maybe it still is copaganda?? Idk, that’s not the point of this thing). This media actually showed the importance of each social theory individually though. AND HOW THEY CAN WORK TOGETHER TO BRING CHANGE! I’d argue they need to work together to bring change.

You need to have that closeness to each other, that understanding of why people are reacting in ways (symbolic interaction). So you can grow stronger as an organized group and figure out plans (structural functionalism). So you can stand up STRONG to your oppressor without leaving ANYONE behind, so you can reduce the HARM of the oppressive system (conflict theory).

I know this is all over the place and I apologize. It seems weird to talk about something so serious using a show (especially when the thing owning that show is part of what you’re speaking out against??)(like seriously wtf Disney!??? Fuck you!!!??)

That said —off topic again— when it comes to Loki, I think he is going to have to find away to be with Sylvie & Mobius again. He has no defenses. They, Sylvie and Mobius, are his defenses. They help him to not die/kill others. They help keep the TVA workers stable to support him. They help keep things in check so no one gets treated unfairly. He needs both of them.

Anyways, back on topic, this can all be overwhelming. Society as a whole. Just remember that we have each other’s backs. You might not feel it yet, but trust me, more and more people are coming together. They/we are doing more and more amazing things, things that get bigger and bigger with more of an impact.

We are stopping weapons from being shipped.

We are boycotting.

We are donating to support.

We are spreading the word.

There is love, it’s just not ever given by the oppressors. Don’t ever look for love there; the people that are hurting family and friends are not ever going to give you love.

Also, if any part of this is off or insensitive please let me know. I’m terrible at being socially human, like my words don’t get interpreted how I interpret them.