#lily orchard is toxic

[sjbattleangel]

The Virgin Lily Orchard:

Sides with abusers

Lies about having Indigenous heritage

Is horrifically abusive to friends and family

Always sides with corporations

Writes awful revenge-fics out of spite

Fetishizes black women

Dismisses an entire cultural animation medium (anime) as "spankbait for perverts"

Wrote the worst writing advice ever

Has a pathetic vendetta against Rebecca Sugar for simply existing

Sends death threats to creators

Throws marginalized creators under the bus for not being "woke" enough

Lied about being a "highly sought-after writer" solely to spite Rebecca Sugar, ND Stevenson, Darron Nefcy, Dana Terrace and her sister

Hates Asians

Hates Jews

Holds nothing but contempt for animation

Wants all of animation to be nothing but slice-of-life romantic comedies

Wants the Hays code back

The Chad Rebecca Sugar:

One of the nicest people working in the industry

Has fought hard for diversity and representation in animation

Is incredibly talented

Is friends with Alex Hirsch (Gravity Falls), Matt Braly (Amphibia) and many others

Paved the way for more diverse creators

Has won multiple awards

Wrote and sang songs for Adventure Time

A non-binary, bisexual Jewish woman whose background and experiences influence her work

Created one of the most groundbreaking, inclusive, LGBTQ+ friendly shows of all time

Fought against higher-ups when they tried to censor the queerness of her work

Helped normalize discussions of kids' mental health

An uplifting inspiration to a generation of queer kids growing up

Influenced by both western animation and anime

Married to Ian Jones Quartey

[flower-boi16]

The way Lily victimizes herself in her Hazbin Hotel video is very...telling of the kinda person she is. Lily is an infamous and hated YouTuber, somebody who has a large following of people who actively spend their time criticizing and calling out her horrible actions.

And Lily KNOWS this. She KNOWS how bad her reputation online is, she knows all the shit she's done, SHE KNOWS why people hate her. But...she refuses to acknowledge it. In her Hazbin video, she talks about the online discourse going around for Vivziepop and while defending her mentions her own hatedom, calling her critics "parasocial mobs" who go and "ruin her life over the prettiest of garbage" (she doesn't directly call her critics the latter but she clearly is relating to Viv here when talking about this so she indirectly saying that).

Lily. Do you want to know why people criticize you? Oh, I forgot, you do know why people criticize you. You're a toxic AF person, you're unable to respect anyone's opinions, you have dogshit media takes, you wrote a pedophilic mlp fan-fiction, and you are actively horrible and toxic to ALL THE PEOPLE CLOSE TO YOU including you're own sister WHO YOU MOLESTED and choose to actively deny that fact by lying and APPARENTLY SAY THAT THE SISTER YOU WERE ABUSING WAS ABUSING YOU.

But Lily can't admit that. She isn't a good enough person to actually hold herself accountable for her mistakes. Instead, she calls all the people who rightfully criticize her for her shit "stalkers", so she can paint herself as the poor UwU victim of online discourse to her fans.

Fucking. Pathetic.

[samasmith23]

Why do some people think that stories portraying darker subject matter is always an inherently bad thing?

I’ve recently encountered this weird mindset in regards to certain online fandom spaces, wherein people will argue that fictional characters experiencing intense trauma and pain is somehow inherently problematic and negatively reflects on the creator’s skills or ethics. This feels like such a narrow-minded and shallow understanding of a piece of media, since characters undergoing hardships is often a necessary element for them to grow and develop as the narrative progresses. Plus, while some stories can indeed be more intense and graphic in what types of trauma is depicted, it’s mere inclusion doesn’t automatically make the story or it’s author inherently bad. For instance, even though I personally haven’t read the manga series Berserk by the late Kentaro Miura (May he Rest In Peace…), based on what I’ve heard from others while the series does include graphic depictions of sexual assault which the main protagonist Guts suffered from in his past, said-assaults are NOT framed in a gross or exploitative way, but are instead utilized to analyze and discuss the character’s feelings of physical and psychological trauma derived from said-horrible events, and heavily factors into Guts' overall backstory and development as a character as he tries to heal from the violent trauma of his past and discover some sense of happiness in a bleak world.

And yet despite this I’ve encountered a few people accuse Berserk of being “pro-rape” or even outright stating that Miura “deserved to die” (which is an absolutely disrespectful and disgusting thing to say!) simply because he included these darker elements in his manga. Like... that's as stupid as someone claiming that Quentin Tarantino is automatically "pro-murder" simply because his movies include lots of scenes of characters killing each other.

I’ve also encountered far less overtly toxic examples of this kind bad faith media criticism in comic circles. Awhile I was incredibly confused when I saw some people on Twitter arguing that Saladin Ahmed was “ill-suited to writing teenage characters” simply because of two scenes in his Miles Morales: Spider-Man & Magnificent Ms. Marvel runs respectively, which involved Miles being tortured by the new supervillain, The Assessor (who would later make clones of Miles as a result), as well as the final battle between Ms. Marvel and her evil robot-duplicate Stormranger getting quite brutal at times (you could see blood from the impact Stormranger’s punch).

In regards to the Miles’ torture scene, I've seen a small number of people argue that the scene's existence was inherently inappropriate due to Miles' status as a Black minor, going as far as to label it as "dehumanizing" and "really insensitive to the real trauma of black boys." I'm not sure how I feel about this as those labels feel a tad extreme due to the fantastical nature of Miles' stories. Like, as brutal as the scene with the Assessor is, it’s at least given a more ficitional sci-fi vibe due to the high-tech laboratory, the Frankenstein operating table, and the fact that this whole ordeal leads directly into Miles' own version of Spider-Man: Clone Saga after The Assessor acquires Miles’ DNA in the process. So it feels less grounded and not as reflective of those real-life traumatic experiences Black men and boys unfortunately go through in the U.S. like I saw a few critics of Ahmed’s run claiming. Plus, Ahmed had Miles be rescued by both his father Jefferson Morales and Uncle Aaron Davis teaming-up together. So the narrative frames the Assessor’s torture of Miles as a bad thing whilst depicting two older Black men actively putting aside their personal differences in order to save their son/nephew as a major narrative focus as well. How exactly is it "dehumanizing" or "inappropriate" then?

And it seems like this bizarre criticism isn’t just limited to Twitter comic fandoms, since a certain Lily Orchard recently made an AWFUL video which outright accused animation fandoms and creators of “fetishizing the torture and abuse of POC women” in cartoons like The Legend of Korra, The Owl House, and She-Ra and the Princesses of Power. As soon as I saw the thumbnail for that video I knew it was going to be an absolute dumpster fire.

In it, not only does Lily engage in those similar types of arguments like the ones I mentioned earlier about Saladin Ahmed’s portrayal of Miles & Kamala, but Lily went multiple steps further by outright accusing various scenes from The Legend of Korra, The Owl House & She-Ra of being “literal torture p*rn” and “fetishized abuse against POC women.” With Korra, Lily accused the scenes of Korra brutally poisoned with the Red Lotus’ liquid metalic venom, Korra still being significantly weakened by the poison during her final battle with Zaheer (causing her to fall and tumble down cliff-sides) and Zaheer trying to use his air-bending to suck the oxygen right out of Korra’s lungs (the same technique he previously used to assassinate the Earth Queen), plus the Unalaq fight from the Season 2 finale where extracts the Avatar spirit from Korra and kills all her past lives one by one with a water-whip as “white centrist writers being turned on by the trauma and torture of a woman of color.”

And in regards to She-Ra, Lily accused Catradora shippers of being an example of fandom going “full mask-off” simply because she found 2 or 3 random comments defending Catra’s abusive behavior prior to her gradual redemption arc in the final season simply because they found the Adora & Catra fights “hot” (which I know for a fact does NOT represent the entirety or even majority of the She-Ra fandom & Catradora shippers).

It’s just… I honestly don’t understand why Lily is describing these scenes as “torture p*rn” or “abuse fetishizing.” Like, it’s not unexpected for characters to undergo traumatic crap during their story arcs, and most often it’s for the purposes of raising the dramatic stakes of the conflict or to have said-characters eventually undergo some sort of positive change arc (which is what happens in both Korra and She-Ra btw). While the abuse Korra suffers at Zander’s hands is indeed violent, it’s intentionally disturbing and off-putting in order to increase the viewer’s suspense and fear over whether or not the main character will get out of this alive. Personally, when I first watched the Season finale of “Book 3,” I was on the edge of my seat and constantly worried for Korra’s survival, and while she is left physically and psychologically scarred by the whole ordeal I’ve heard that the entirety of “Book 4” (which I still haven’t seen BTW) focuses on Korra healing from her trauma and becoming more spiritually enlightened in the process. YouTuber and MarySue author, Princess Weekes, though had some interesting analyses about Korra’s portrayal of overcoming trauma and how its heavily rooted  in East Asian philosophy, despite Weekes' overall mixed feelings about the series in general:

And while I can’t comment on The Owl House (again, haven’t watched any of it), I can say that Lily’s characterization of Catradora as “torture p*rn/abuse fetishization” is 100% wrong since the show frames Catra’s behavior towards Adora and others throughout Seasons 1-4 as toxic and unhealthy, and Season 5 is all about her fixing herself on her own volition after realizing the harm she’s caused, and it’s only AFTER all of that when Adora & Catra become lovers. But the way Lily describes the scenes in Korra & She-Ra (which are honestly pretty PG in their levels of brutality despite being fairly dark for family-friendly animation) you’d think she was talking about some over-the-top violently explicit tentacle hentai or something, as she even goes as far as to compare the Korra & Zaheer fight to FREAKING The Passion of the Christ (seriously… Lily actually compared Korra to Mel Gibson's antisemitic guilt-tripping exploitation film which unnecessarily stretches out Jesus' torture and crucifixion; which in the Bible occurred in just a few brief passages instead of 2-and-a-half hours like in the movie).

Geez… given how Lily so inaccurately mischaracterizes these scenes from Korra and She-Ra, I’d honestly hate to see she’d react to Neon Genesis Evangelion, which is heavily centered around the characters suffering from intense depressive episodes and experiencing emotional breakdowns, whilst also including lots of psychoanalytical and disturbing imagery. Knowing Lily, she’d probably ignore the fact that NGE’s director Hideaki Anno was suffering from severe depression while creating the series (which heavily influenced the show’s overall production and themes), and instead accuse all the depictions of depression and trauma in EVA of being “unrealistic” and “inaccurate” since according to her all fictional depictions of trauma are inherently inaccurate since there’s no one universal depiction of trauma (Lily actually said that in her terrible video), and accuse all of the series’ violent and sexual imagery of being “torture p*rn” whilst calling Anno a “perverted abuse-fetishizing creep who is turned on by torture” (which feels incredibly SWERFy on Lily’s part, as well as needlessly hostile towards people who are into BDSM or sado-masachism and practice it safely and consensually) just like she did to the creators of Korra, Owl House, and She-Ra (even though NGE and especially the movie The End of Evangelion is highly critical of exactly that kind of gross and toxic behavior within Japanese Otaku subcultures).

So my overall question is this: why do Lily and some other people think that including intense trauma or brutal torture scenes in comics or animation, even when said-scenes they're framed in the story as bad things are inherently “problematic,” “dehumanizing,” “fetishistic,” or “torture/trauma p*rn”? It's like... I can understand not wanting to stomach intensely violent or depressing scenes if they can't handle them, or being critical if they feel unnecessarily mean-spirited or exploitative, but often times having darker elements is an unavoidable aspect of giving a story a sense of conflict. Conflict is necessary in order to have a plot or to develop characters, except it feels like a lot of people on social media believe that the mere inclusion of any type of darker conflict or subject matter is inherently ethically dubious regardless of how its framed within the overall narrative.

I just don't get this kind of mentality and why it's become so prevalent online these days... I really don't...

[twisting-echo]

Lily shouldn't have been nasty to you

Belley is a cute ship name and I'm sorry you had to deal with that

Wow, thank you! I was really starting to think that it was a stupid ship name, but your saying that it's really cute makes me feel less self-conscious about it.

You're too kind and such a sweetheart for going out of your way to tell me this.

I'm so touched 🥲❤️‍🩹🫂

[samasmith23]

Dang! You just went full Pulp Fiction on Lily Orchard there Britt! Nice!

So apparently Lily is "planning to sue me".

Do it, bitch. I'd love to get your hoards of archived illegal material in front of a law official from your province who will actually listen to me. It's not libel if it's true and darlin' I've got all the fuckin receipts.

She's also telling her audience to brigade me with false reports. So if this blog vanishes, that's why.

It's not gonna get rid of me, Lily. It's not gonna get rid of the evidence I have in Google drives, local saves, and the wayback machine. It's not gonna get rid of the interview. It's not gonna shut me up.

I'm not stopping until your channel is no longer financially viable, you get booted off youtube, or your ass gets thrown in prison. Whichever comes first.

[sjbattleangel]

There, Lily. I fixed it for you.

Don't thank me, I'm only portraying what you TRULY believe.

[samasmith23]

Head-up to block and report Nooblord9001, a very possible Lily Orchard sock-puppet. https://www.tumblr.com/sjbattleangel/749771850321625088/just-a-reminder-that-nooblord9001-is-99-likely

Stay safe and warn your fellow mutuals.

Alright! Will do!

[twisting-echo]

Psst I'm sorry Lily Orchard is a jerk and I like your ship name more

Thank you so much. That actually makes me feel a lot better. You're very sweet, thank you. 🥲🫂❤️‍🩹

[trappedinthewalls]

I'd like to remind everyone that Courtney has not been on Tumblr during this whole thing of Lily's blog getting nuked and people making joke accounts to clog the tag up (which has been great, by the way). She's been dealing with the aftermath of losing her mother in law, with all the emotional and financial issues that come with that. She's basically been removed from this whole thing.

I know Lily and Mikaila call everyone taking Lily to task for her hideous behavior harassment, but no one has actually been doing that. An agreed upon code of conduct in this circle is that no one is to engage with Lily directly. People just make fun of her crappy media takes and talk about her sh*tty behavior in a public forum. She's a public figure with a following; people are allowed to do that (she's certainly done the same thing to other influencers and creators). Lily is a fully grown adult capable of deciding whether or not to check the tags with her name on it. No one is sending her hate mail, at least not here. And as far as accusing people of wanting her to kill herself, that's also not happening. Lily's the one constantly telling people to drink bleach and wishing for people to get their heads bashed in with a brick.

Tumblr probably took her account down for the same reason it likely got shut down the first time: her gross incest fics.

I know people have sympathy for Mikaila for having to be married to Lily, but it's times like this that remind me she can be just as nasty as her predator of a wife.

Here's Courtney's video on the go fund me, by the way. Send support if you can.

[that-one-kiddo-in-the-back]

I'm ready Lily stans

Okay, I need everyone on Lily's side to do a brain exercise with me.

If Lily to always a victim and never the problem then she is lying about something if all of her friends have decided to cut her off then she is the problem. if every room you go in smells like shit then check your shoes

[yasmiralotta]

This is one of the best Steven Universe commentary out there in my opinion. And I highly recommend it! (And it's a Lily Orchard critical video too, so that is always a plus)

Hiding in Private my beloved (The youtuber who made this video 😊)

[sjbattleangel]

THIS.

Remember, Lily's horrible video isn't "Criticism". No, it's just one long screed against Rebecca Sugar. She's just using "concerns for representation" and "criticising horrible writing" as a smokescreen to cover a deeply rabid, personal vendetta showrunner who never harmed her in her life.

The comment I left on Lily Orchard’s Steven Universe video

For @harryhenry1 , @ankle-beez and anyone else who wanted my hot take before it was deleted (potentially)

“This video is very bad, and I can give you like a hundred reasons why, but let’s stick with some simple ones.

- You have a lack of understanding of the meaning of character development; Steven going from being a silly rambunctious kid with no sense of danger to a soft-spoken pacifist with defined beliefs isn’t them going back and forth on his personality, it’s him developing as the series goes on. Remember how Finn from Adventure Time started out as just a super obnoxious and loud kid but then slowly turned into a very mature teen with an understanding of how he affects others? Yeah, it’s the same thing, except this is Steven Universe (the show that gets more flak than it deserves). Oh wow, Steven changes as a person because of him going through a series of life-changing events from season two to season five, what a big surprise! I would’ve expected him to just go the Goku route of collecting new powers and upgrades without ever changing his beliefs or ideals to fit with things he’s learned, shame on Rebecca (who takes sole responsibility for everything that happens in Steven Universe for whateer reason)!

- It can be very easy to say that the writing of a show is lazy by simplifying characters and events down and removing anything beyond that, (Amethyst being laidback, Garnet being stoic, Pearl being anxious, Diamonds being nazis???, etc.) but if that’s what you think the characters boil down to, it just means you don’t grasp them too well. For example, you simplifying the events of Mindful Education to just ‘Garnet singing vaguely about trauma and nothing happens until the last minute’ clearly means you missed the song’s message about how to deal with anxiety, and that you think that being subtle and vague is interchangeable.

- Rebecca Sugar is not an animator, literally never is she credited as an animator in any episode of the show, but besides that, I think you don’t think you understand the meaning of animation if you think that’s the same thing as 'proportion inconsistencies.’

- Using the term Hide Your Gays to describe a character who is literally symbolic for a gay relationship is kinda ridiculous, and the fact that you admit that Ruby and Sapphire themselves have a well-written relationship shows you don’t have a foot to stand on with this flimsy argument. Ruby and Sapphire *are* present, if they weren’t then Garnet wouldn’t exist. I don’t have much else to say on this, so let’s move on to your biggest point. (I skip over the whole Concrete thing because that issue is over and done with, with her apologizing thoroughly)

- So Pink being Rose somehow ruins every scrap of potential the series had? I think by 'ruin’ you mean 'enhanced by adding even more possible potential storylines and plot-points.’ Honestly, character growth wasn’t ruined at all, it was actually way more interesting that she was a Diamond- having Rose be super badass and perfect by assassinating the enemy singlehandedly in a way that would literally be impossible would be kind of dull, especially since we already knew she was flawed (which is apparently a bad thing to you). If you think this twist is complicated when you’ve had so long to think about it I don’t think spending so long ranting about it was really the best idea- Pink Diamond’s time on Earth made her realize that the Earth had life that deserved protecting, she was unable to convince the Diamonds to stop the colonization because they didn’t take her seriously, she sparked a rebellion since she knew they wouldn’t be able to ignore it, and because she makes the obviously flawed decision to fake her own shattering with the idea that the Diamonds don’t actually care about her and will stop the colonization because of her death. What was that about Kingdom Hearts having a more complicated plot? If you think Pearl, Amethyst, Lapis and Steven are 'the most wretched people you’ve ever met’ because of those overexaggerated traits, I can think of plenty more characters you might think are the worst. "Bugs Bunny uses manipulation and gaslighting to get his way, Daffy Duck is a hot-headed idiot, Elmer Fudd is a sociopath who shows no hesitation to kill sentient beings and doesn’t learn from his mistakes, etc.” Do you see how oversimplyifying things can make anybody sound horrible? And Pink Diamond’s motivation was not 'I hate responsibility,’ it was 'I feel empathy toward the life already inhabiting this planet and am not being taken seriously, making me think the only way I’ll make any impact is by lashing out.’ Her motives are meant to be flawed, Rebecca Sugar even once said in a podcast that Rose was a bad person, so all your ranting about her being bad serves no purpose when the creator states that was the purpose.

- I’ll summarize the idiocy of this whole “Space Nazi” thing in a sentence: It is ridiculous to claim that a Jewish woman is trying to send a message that Nazis are okay just because she makes her villains sympathetic (aka has good writing).

- People who come to the conclusion that Rebecca Sugar is a fascist sympathizer are… just dumb, don’t give them credit for thinking that.

- This video easily could have been shortened to like fifteen minutes if you just went over the essential points in a clear way, but it seems you have a masochistic thing for yelling about things you don’t like for as long as possible. In conclusion, anyone who claims this video is taking down Steven Universe and is super epic is kind of just wrong.“

[lilyvalerieorchard]

I dare Lily Orchard to play this game:

Haunting Ground.

[dorkycreature-89]

i don't like calling fandoms/fanbases "toxic", i really don't. i don't think it's fair to generalize a bunch of people based on some jackasses in that space. now that i've said that.....

i have never seen a more toxic, parasocial, and (ironically) transphobic fanbase as lily orchard's. i'm kinda astonished by how many people will whiteknight for that woman. and i know "creators aren't responsible for fan's actions" and i would agree with you......if lily didn't perpetuate that toxicity by constantly using her identity as a shield. and they eat this shit up (while unironically being transphobic to other critics)

i swear, it's the youtber version of nicki minaj stans, istg

[liquidorcard]

Pls draw yourself playing the ukulele like the talented star you are! I even have a song suggestion! A lovely little song called "Toxic Gossip Train."

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[trappedinthewalls]

You and your annoying little friends can shut up about Lily. You know nothing about her and you obviously aren't interested in hearing her side as most of you don't accept feedback. Play stupid games you will end up finding out.

Wow, check it out, guys; Lily noticed me! A little nobody who barely talks about her and isn't on the forefront of the conversation. Courtney's video must really have her on edge to be bitching at tiny little nothing blogs like me. How much you want to bet she's spamming this kind of comment to everyone who uses her hashtag? Careful, Lily, you might accidentally send one of these to your wife, seeing as you never publicly support the stuff she posts about blowing sunshine up your ass. Go cry about it to her while you're keeping her up late with your incest fanfiction ideas.

Also, accept feedback? On what? How to call out a predator on her bullshit? I mean, I apologized when I said something ignorant and was called out on it. Now I only complain about Lily's garbage personality which is garbage.

Also, I have friends? That's news to me heheh