#like. sometimes characters are shitty. and that's the point.

[avelera]

Oh I would love to hear more of your thoughts on Heimerdinger because all of my friends were like "aaw the poor guy, he was right about magic all along, Jayce and Viktor owe him an apology" and I'm like??? Heimerdinger literally does nothing to improve any situation ever! I was so hoping he'd learn his lesson under Ekko, but when he got stranded in an AU and just decided to stay there and permanently take over his other self's body and let his original timeline perish I was genuinely horrified by his complacency (again). TBH I would have really liked to see him confronted with the fucked up culmination of all the fiddling with the Arcane in person, because I think I wanted him to see that he was right, he was right and yet he didn't change anything in the end (I'd even argue that he gets away without facing the consequences of any of his failings, he escapes Jinx' bombs even tho he failed in politics and he escapes the Arcane Apocalypse even tho he failed as a guide to his pupils and Hextech safeguard.)

Heimerdinger is a super interesting character and I'm glad you asked this because the previous meta discussion got me thinking about him but I didn't really know where to begin. I'll try to break my thoughts down with some cohesion:

I do think Heimerdinger learned his lesson within the narrative but specifically with regards to his two demonstrated personal flaws. Heimerdinger's two greatest flaws within the narrative are:

1) A lack of understanding and empathy towards those with shorter lives

2 ) The way his immortality detaches him from actually living his life (which feeds into point 1).

This is going to get long though, so I'm gonna start picking apart what I see as Heimerdinger's flaws and his virtues and how those get addressed beneath a cut:

So as I said, I would argue that Heimerdinger's arc does address his core flaws. His moment of greatest personal cruelty is when he fails to recognize Jayce and Viktor's desperation and, instead of agreeing to help them and guide them to make their experiments safe in the face of their desperation for Viktor to live, he just tries to shut them down. He gets exactly what he deserves there.

Then, in the AU universe, he recognizes this and agrees to help Ekko. He then willingly sacrifices his own life to send Ekko back to the canon universe, where Ekko is instrumental in saving the day. That, I would argue, is Heimerdinger's redemption arc, and he needed a redemption arc.

Also, while he was in the alternate timeline, he learned how to live in the moment, which addresses his second flaw, which feeds into his first flaw. I don't blame him for not feeling urgency to return home, without Ekko, he had no way of doing so. It could be seen as complacency, or perhaps simply an understanding of the reality. Would that world have been a better place if he'd invented Hextech just for a shot at returning to his universe? I'd argue that he was trying to be selfless by not doing so, when we see how much damage Hextech did in the canon universe. I think he was simply at peace with a shitty situation for himself, rather than actively avoiding his responsibilities.

As for the other Heimerdinger, who knows! Was there even one? Do yordles only have one identity across the multiverse? Or was there an element of redemption in Heimerdinger choosing to take his alternate self out of the Council? We just don't know.

As for his political identity, Heimerdinger is super interesting there too. Technically, he's an immortal enlightened despot in Piltover as its founder. I think he hides this fact from himself by allowing a council of humans to sometimes outvote him, in a fig leaf over the fact he really doesn't have the right to govern a bunch of humans, and I think him getting voted out of the Council acknowledges and narratively punishes him for this fact. Piltover isn't as enlightened as he thought it was under his leadership, a fact he realizes when he goes to the undercity and realizes how blind he was. But I'd say those were his flaws, he was always blind and naive, not malicious. And I think the narrative punishes him accordingly by giving him a wakeup call that he was asleep at the helm. He doesn't deserve to be in charge anymore. Jayce was completely right to kick him out BUT, did things get worse without the peaceful, modulating view of Heimerdinger on the council? How would HE have voted for Zaun's independence? I'd be very curious to know.

And I think it should be noted, Heimerdinger does have virtues too! His caution towards Hextech is not only well-founded, he is 100% correct. I think people forget that Heimerdinger was never ambiguous on the subject of where Hextech would lead them, he was completely right that it corrupts, destroys, and lays waste to civilizations. There's no ambiguity there! He's completely correct!

He's also correct that there are scientific innovations that would be safer if they spent more time in testing before being made available to the wider world. It took 100 years for people to realize coal burning factories were measurably altering the world's climate. Another great example of an invention that should have been tested more before it was implemented was freon, which was used in early refrigerators and does measurable damage to Earth's ozone later to the point where it is now banned. What if instead more tests had been run?

Heimerdinger's long view of science is correct and in an ideal world, it'd be great if we could run these tests to their conclusions. However, the long view isn't the whole story, a debate that Arcane actively engages with.

Because it should also be pointed out: the refrigerator also helped improve people's health around to the world. Think of all the food and medicine that can be preserved today because of refrigeration! Literally thousands would have died if we had banned refrigerators until freon could be better studied.

That's kind of where Viktor is at vs. Heimerdinger. If freon-powered refrigerators can end hunger in the undercity, why aren't we applying it now? To which Heimerdinger answers: you don't know what else it might be doing to the world. They are in fact both correct! It's a debate! One the real world is still trying to figure out. Heimerdinger is an extreme case of the long view, and Viktor is an equally extreme case of the short view since he's frantic now that he has so little time to live. Jayce tries to balance the two and gets caught in the middle with everyone mad at him, poor guy.

Anyway, I think that covers most of what I had to say about Heimerdinger? Hope that helps!

[love-is-a-pearl]

What , you like About ash and Dawn .?

What I like about them? Honestly everything :v

Ash and Dawn are my favorite characters of the anime by themselves. Dawn embodies "ray of sunshine that hides how insecure they are behind a smile" trope in the most perfect way and I love her for that. Ash is just the blueprint of "dork with a heart of gold golden retriever" that I also adore. But their relationship makes it all even more interesting.

They are best friends! They support eachother in their dreams and while that's normal for any of Ash's friends, is extra special with Dawn since he trained with her constantly; techniques created by her were often used by him and vice versa. There's no "Ash" or "Dawn" battle style, its "theirs" and that makes me insane! Specially because Dawn is the only character with that honour. Ash would train with other characters later/before her but to the point of adapting her style into his? never again. And it honestly pisses me off sometimes arent his other friends important too?

They have a lot in common! Usually the anime has the very shitty "boys stick with boys, girls stick with girls" mentality (that is the most egregious in SM), where they never allow boys and girls to spend ANY time together, but in DP Arceus blessed the writers for once to let Ash and Dawn actually spend time with one another. They both love pokemon a lot, even the start of their journeys was similar. They have goals that are too big and hard to achieve and they understand how important that is for the other. And they like talking about that to eachother! Every episode, even if it's not focused on them, there's some moment where they talk about something. It's very clear they like eachother's company!

Their chemistry is so cute. There's so many moments where we just see Ash and Dawn talking about random stuff. Having fun! Taunting and provoking and playing with one another! Just to showcase how close they are.

But the most special of it is when they talk about personal stuff, about how often they both feel comfortable being honest about insecurities and struggles to one another. How often they will just talk their issues out instead of fighting or being avoidant about it.

Moments like those are small but scattered all around the anime and ughhh they are so cute.

And I think the biggest diferential to other Ash's relationships is that Ash cares about Dawn. A lot. I'm not saying he doesn't care for other friends, but there was a special care put into the writing of him in DP. Perhaps even to parallel with Chimchar's arc and all. A more caring Ash in general. But like, the way he felt empathetic to all her losses, the way he ran to her when she lost the contest in DP146, the way he knows how she feels even without her saying it. THEIR GOODBYE AND HOW HE SCREAMS HER CATCHPHRASE AT HER TO MAKE HER HAPPY!!

Is just.. he is written much more denser in other seasons and makes it so hard for me to believe Dawn is not his favorite person because of that LMAO

He traded pokemon with her! Ash "i rather die than trade pokemon" Ketchum! And speaking of their pokemon, I love how close they all are. Because they often trained together, there was plenty of moments to have Ash interact with Dawn's pokemon and vice-versa in such a spontaneous way that is lacking for other companions. Dawn is just as invested in Gliscor and Gible's training as Ash; when Mamoswine was disobeying Dawn, Ash (and Brock) were there with it watching her contests and trying to convince it of giving her more credit. Piplup so often tags along with Ash's more out of pocket trainings and is so so cute. Pikachu has an unique pika-name for Dawn!! They are so close that even their pokemon get tangled into their relationship and I love that so so much.

Dawn and Ash are equals. The anime made such an effort to make that very clear! She is not just the girl he traveled with in Sinnoh, she is the girl that he learned a lot from. That he learned the most from. His best friend. His team mate. His partner!

[lloydfrontera]

i just saw someone saying very confidently they read enough of a manhwa to give it an in-depth review,,, because they're already at chapter 42. like. girl. these things are adapted from novels with up to 400-600 chapters. you barely even started it at all.

[sagegreenyaps]

Hey, I get that you don't like that person's stance, but they don't deserve to die or to relive their own trauma because of it. Don't dehumanize your enemies.

If you're at the point where the most substantial thing you could say to somebody is a threat, just silently wish the best for them.

Wish that someday they'll stop being an enemy. Wish for character growth.

(Note: This is not asking you to "fix them." That's not your job, and helping people with the mindset of "fixing them" is not actually that helpful. If they ask for civil discussion-- and are genuine-- then it's your choice whether you permit it or not, but don't try to force your point without listening to them. Don't "fix them." It very likely is not going to work, and will very likely instead give them a bad/worse taste in their mouth about you and what you represent. Sometimes it is best to leave people be, in all honesty. You don't have to save the world, doing what you can is perfectly acceptable. Promoting good-will and stability in your own space is just as-- if not more-- important as stepping outside of said space.)

[good--merits-accumulated]

going through some old left-for-dead projects and just found this one where I was like. INTENT on dissecting jeff's brain on the operating table (i.e. google docs) but only from todd's weird skewed pov

[professor voice] it's about brothers as eternal combatants and it's about being so convinced of your own goodness you excuse your shitty actions. it's also about comparing yourself to a dog because you feel less fully formed than your brother. lol.

[my-thoughts-and-junk]

hate when i see a youtube video that's like 'analyzing why [thing] is bad!' and you watch the video and they just say nothing for twenty minutes

[ink-asunder]

Okie I'm gonna overshare abt something on main again.

Every artist footnoting their "how to draw fat people" tutorials with "Round bellies are uncommon and usually only occur with bloating or pregnancy" is the exact reason why every google search related to crohns disease leads to a similar search titled "how to get rid of crohns belly"

[whamss]

anyways top two tips for finding media with well written female characters! 1) consume media written by women and 2) stop consuming things written for adolescent boys!!!!

[ridl]

Something i rlly dislike abt Ganyu's characterization in fandom is how ppl see her being read as a stupid weak stereotype, and they just retaliate with another stereotype but from the other end of a spectrum.

She can be strong, competent, knowledgable and have very important role in the Liyue Qixing for years, but also be kind, humble, avoiding conflicts and NOT always knowing everything. those are not mutually exclusive!!! Yes she's old, no that doesn't mean she's now perfectly confident, knows everything and is good at everything. She's not some untouchable, divine being, better than everyone else. Stop removing humanity from her, when that's the whole point of her identity!!!

When i see overly confident, dominant, bitchy, smug, flirty Ganyu i start throwing rocks bc that's not Ganyu, begone impostor.

I just want Ganyu to be actually herself. Not a submissive secretary caricature. Not a dommy mommy caricature. JUST Ganyu, with all her complexity, strengths and weaknesses.

It's like treating Ganyu's personality as inherently weak and boring, so in the act of "justice for women" ppl just remove it and replace with a caricature of a strong woman. It's driving me insane when those "women defenders" are just slandering them, without even thinking abt it. If someone thinks a woman being quiet, kind, humble, avoiding conflict etc. is inherently "misogynistic" and needs those traits to be completely removed and replaced, then they just hate women

[theonlyadawong]

went through the mia tag yesterday and my God you people have got to stop reducing her to "loving wife and mother," i mean come on this is a woman who lied to her husband for years about her work with the connections and who oversaw eveline for a time. give the lady some grit.

[celibibratty]

Amy is a misunderstood character, I remembered her in the old games being a bit annoying, but in reality she is super nice, kind and a cutie🌸, Amy was a character above her time, she is a tougher girl, she is basically what she is (she is a female version of sonic), just like him, she is heroic, has good intentions, wants to help, and just like him, she has her "flaws", sonic's is being slightly cocky and hers is be exaggerated/hot-head, she has the fru-fru cliches of a girl character, yes!, but it's not in a boring way (and it's not that much really, I didn't take It Amy in Sonic unleashed saying that she's enjoying/getting used to Sonic werehog form look because it's kinda cool and "wild"!😂and I didn't felt it was in a way like"oh I like the bad boy look" it sounded more like "oh, I kinda would like to dress up like a punk too😂", cute, then she shades him saying that she prefers he's day/blue form😂)

Amy for me, is that character who wants to be seen and treated like a lady, but acts like a brute, because in reality she is a little warrior, not a lady, she is little warrior princess😅🌸, and I like that, it's cute, she's a bit of a tsundere, maybeeee, but she is nice and sweet(not much of a pain in the ass like most tsunderes characters, tbh most anime cliche characters are a pain in the ass, not only tsunderes, y'know because it's anime and animes are overexagerated)

Her love/"obsession" with Sonic, people used to say that her character only revolves around Sonic and her personality is just being the girl who likes Sonic and that her love for him is toxic, no, Amy is more than that, like, in Sonic Heroes her intention was to go after Sonic, but it was also to find her friends' pets, and she takes that very seriously in the game, she doesn't even talk so much about Sonic, her love for Sonic, i don't see it that way, for me it's very genuine, for me she just wants to take care and protect him🌸, just like he does with the world and everybody, she just likes him a lot and makes that very clear, and it's meant to be comical, it's not meant to be serious, the chase it's suppose to be funny, and I like that even though Amy loves Sonic a lot, she doesn't take shit from him, she's not afraid to confront him, she's not afraid to confront anyone really😅 (see!, just like him) , Amy is a strong female character, yes!, and I say more☝️✨Amy is an example of a badass female character much more than the little blonde princess(and i don't say that because peach is delicate and amy's "not much", but because peach sometimes is a B*tch), Amy is the true pink/girls rules icon!, people say they like the modern Amy more because she is cooler and more independent, she always has been

[avelera]

(Heimerdinger anon here) Thank you sm for your thoughts, TBH I hadn't even really considered that Heimerdinger in the alternate dimension might just be making the best out of a shitty situation and doesn't want to introduce Hextech just for himself, which.. yeah fair, I guess I was making my assumption with s1 Heimerdinger in mind and didn't recognize this as character growth. I do like how he is written overall and that he only ever causes harm unintentionally/out of ignorance, because we don't see this type of character very often. I guess my biases are showing because he can be really flippantly cruel sometimes without even realizing and I know ppl like that IRL so the death sirens were activating on sight lmao (your post made me reevaluate some things, basically). Out of curiosity, how do you think Heimerdinger would have reacted to Arcane-infected Jayce and the Machine Herald? I personally think he would have been really shaken

Thank you!

I think the narrative treats Heimerdinger pretty kindly as inflicting most of the harm he does out of ignorance or naiveté, rather than malice or self-interest. He wants what's best for everyone in the long-run, he's just naturally become detached from the normal cycle of a human life, which leads him to the abject cruelty you mentioned. It is a flaw, but I think Arcane takes into account that it's not intentional and sort of punishes him accordingly, since no one in the narrative is perfect.

That said, I absolutely don't blame anyone for getting Kill Bill sirens about him lol. A lot of what he does in S1 especially is so unintentionally cruel and indirectly harmful that it makes my jaw drop. I think he more than most characters deserves a lot of recrimination. "Nice" is different than "good", a fact that goes a long way to making a lot of people think he's harmless, when really his greatest crime is negligence, and he's also not perfect. He's right about Hextech but he is wrong about Jayce not presenting the new crystals, for example. Not that Heimerdinger could have known, but if Jayce had presented the crystals on stage, there's no way Jinx could have stolen them.

As for your question about how how he would have reacted basically to Act 3 Viktor and Jayce, I have 2 answers:

1 ) Doylist (out of universe): I think one reason the narrative deliberately removed Heimerdinger from the story for Act 3 is because the tone of his character is so at odds with the war that ensues and the seriousness of infected Jayce and Machine Herald Viktor. Like Hoskel and Bolbok, Arcane in S2 rather carefully removes a lot of our silly, bizarre, or comedy relief characters like Heimerdinger from the narrative so they don't contrast with the tone.

2 ) Watsonian (in universe): I think it would have taken every ounce of the new-found grace and understanding for short-lived people for Heimerdinger to now say the world's longest, loudest, "I TOLD YOU SO," at the sight of the final result of Jayce and Viktor's choices that he warned them against at every stage. That said, I don't think Jayce would fight him on that point at all. Jayce heard a lot of Heimerdinger's voice in the torture cave specifically. I think he'd give Heimerdinger a big hug and an apology and maybe cry a bit more because his whole life would be so much less of a fucking mess if he had listened.

[introspectivememories]

My fear is that DC makes Bernard such a beautiful well written character that mixs his old asshole personality with his newer tamed personality and people start actively liking him because he is own person with his own hopes and dreams and then fans want more of this Bernard only to be met with a shitty shell of a character and starting back at square one by forcing him just to be Tim’s love interest

this too actually

[sheryl-lee]

yellowjackets rant time :)

people whining that natalie’s death was “shitty writing” makes me want to bang my head against the wall. like are you seriously shocked that the show about tragedy and murder has tragedy and murder in it. are you seriously shocked that the show about fucked up people has fucked up people in it.

[musical-chick-13]

"but there just AREN'T any well-written women in aNyTHiNg I interact with"

DO TEN MINUTES OF RESEARCH.

WATCH BETTER SHOWS. READ BETTER BOOKS.

THERE IS A VERY SIMPLE SOLUTION HERE.

[lord-squiggletits]

Like I'm not one of those story "critics" who will nitpick the smallest inconsistency and call it a plot hole that ruins the whole story. I'm okay with inconsistencies and even the occasional plot hole if it ends up producing a story that's interesting, gripping, and brings up interesting things.

The problem is that suspension of disbelief only stretches so far. And secondly, stuff like character drama and themes are only as strong as the plot that supports them. If the plot is full of contrivances, plot holes, and really stupid things that make it feel like the author is just forcing something to happen to move the story along, then the themes and character drama become much less convincing.