#consider these posts to be my rent-lowering gunshots | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

archivalofsins · 5 months ago

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You know what I'm about to do rent lowering gunshots.

I'm tired of feeling like I'm being held to some higher standard than the average fan just because of how I communicate my feelings on the series. It's tiring to feel like your words are constantly being scrutinized because of how they may impact or sway how the series goes. It's not a fun atmosphere to theorize under.

Plus, the Milgram fandom has a way of rewarding individuals that do less work and devaluing those who do more. Framing them as taking things too seriously, being harsh, or just not knowing how to have fun. While at the same time expecting those same individuals who put in that work sometimes spending days or weeks on a post to explain in depth why their favorite character or that one they hate should be Innocent or Guilty for them.

Yet these same people at other times really need to watch what they say because their words have more of an impact they should try to be kinder to the character or add more nuance to their discussion. Even if doing so compromises their genuine opinion or even how they process information.

It sucks to say because I do enjoy when people like my posts. I do enjoy when I get to talk about Milgram with other people and interacting with the fandom. Yet, I write the way I do in order to process my feelings and thoughts on a piece of media I care about. Milgram isn't special. I have a lot of things that I enjoy just as much and interact with in the same way.

Because I love stories. I love the characters in them. The process in which I digest information is starting off critical to get an objective view of the information and then looking into the emotional implications after. That's always been how I've looked at things. Even if I look at the emotional implications, there's no saying if I'll come out feeling the character is any less or more justified in their actions. Because even if that contextualizes what was done, it does not justify it in my eyes.

I care more about how the character feels about their actions than how it makes me feel. I can't tell others how they should live their life. If their circumstances are happy or sad. Just like I don't do that in my real life, I don't do it with media. I'm happy just letting the characters be the characters, whatever may come of that. That's how I have fun and I can have an opinion on that, sure.

Yet that opinion will always be malleable.

Not just because people have the right to change their minds but because characters in a narrative have the right to develop. They can change for better or worse. Even if the character is static, when more information is revealed about them, the audiences opinion of them can and may change. That's only natural.

At the same time, how the audience engages with a character can impact how said character is perceived and received on a larger scale. This fact heavily impacted the trials of Mu and Kotoko during the second season of Milgram.

It certainly wasn't the only reason that they received such high guilty percentages. However, it played a larger role in it than most people are willing to look into.

Let's talk about

Guilt By Association

Merriam-Webster: Moral guilt or unfitness presumed to exist on the basis of one's known associations.

the doctrine of guilt by association has on occasion been used to brand as currently disloyal persons who at some past time had been members of an organization not known to be or considered subversive at the time they were members

Dictionary: The attribution of guilt to individuals because of the people or organizations with which they associate, rather than because of any crime that they have committed.

Guilt by association has been alluded to through Mu already and is highlighted more heavily through her answer to question eighteen trial two.

Q.18 Do you regret anything?

Mu: I think maybe I should have chosen my friends a bit more carefully.

Through this statement Mu shows that she believes her affiliations are why she wound up in the situation she's in. This is also supported by the line,

"If you want to betray from jealousy."

Something that implies the people she knew were envious of her status and out to take her spot. This is illustrated to be the case in After Pain as well through imagery like this,

Showing her friends, not her victim, icing her out. Along with the flipping of the hourglass, which can allude to her going from being on top to being on the bottom. As we see in It's Not My Fault, Mu's position in the hourglass has switched from drowning at the bottom to being at the top.

Now, getting the room to breathe that she wanted and escaping from that glass.

It's also shown through the board that her association with her victim before she died is weaponized against her after the victim passes away. As it's filled with speculation about how Mu is the reason her victim died and she's only getting away with due to her parents,

"Just benefits from her parents"

Another association she's implied to be taking advantage of.

Kotoko is the same way relying on groups and the support of weaklings to get things done. All while saying she has everything, she's the solution, she's got it all figured out. She just needs the weaklings around her to shut up an let themselves be protected by her.

You see that, though?

She needs weaklings to let her protect them. She needs to make a deal to feel special and necessary. She needs this dichotomy more than the weaklings around her do. Just like Mu needs those she views as lesser to constantly feed her ego.

They need associations, for those around them to see the merit in their existence, and validate them being here just like Shidou. Because they can't figure that out for themselves. They need to grasp through actions the things that they can solidly do and provide.

"I overheard, I found out How much I’m not needed."

22/07/05 (Mu’s Birthday)

Mu: Hey~~~ Isn’t everyone a bit gloomy lately? I get that this situation isn’t ideal, but you’re really bringing down the mood for my birthday.

Yuno: Haha, surely even you can tell now’s not really the time for something like that right. Nobody’s really in the mood, or rather nobody has time time to deal with something like that.

Mu: Boo, how boring. You seem to be free, you can celebrate for me. Go on, celebrate.

Yuno: Wow, what a pain. I’m reading the atmosphere properly and keeping quiet. Well, you just go and have fun with Haruka. In the corner somewhere so you’re out of everyone’s way.

"There’s no special meaning, I got the short end of the stick."

"Tock-tock… tells me, the reason it’s ok to be here. Won’t disappear even if I stop-"

"The love that won't perish."

"“Throw down” connecting you with me, to keep you alive, you are still living." - "Lying, replacing with hope."

"“Throw down” it’s ok, that’s enough. Can’t stay away. Please don’t forgive me. That’s why I want this to end “Throw down”."

"The person that can’t be saved, is now understanding the abnormality."

"It’s ok to dislike, right? Losing it, losing it, what should I hope for?"

"“UNDER” Doltish, a codependency of the weak. “UNDER” Obscene, pulling all cords to stay warm."

"So ridiculous, isn’t it ridiculous? Bringing back the cocky hero again? How embarrassing."

I think it's very telling that while these lines are sung the only one reflected or shown in the scene is Kotoko herself and these are all lines that can be applied to her. She has a codependency on the weak because she needs to save them to validate herself and they need saving by her in turn.

It's the same dichotomy that she attempts to enforce with Es as soon as she gets to Milgram. Something she clearly attempts to get more out of later without putting much more in. As she doesn't give Es more information on Milgram, the prisoners, or even attempt to be on good terms with the others enough in order to uphold her end of the bargain she made despite assuming the deal was accepted.

Along with citing the deal as the reason she's totally allowed to jump people because that is the offer she made Es actually and there was never another one,

"Guard-san. No... Es. Don't you want to join forces with me? I think the two of us would make good partners."

Join... forces with you?

"With you, in the role of prison guard with the information you gather from interrogations, and me, in the role of prisoner with the information I gather from my daily life here... Working together and sharing our findings what do you think?"

Your hand...? What are you trying to say?

"Let's shake hands. We will become companions."

The two of us...companions?

"When the time comes, Es, let me be your fangs."-"Come on, rely on me, go on."

"I want a reason for judgment execution, I want it."

"So make yourselves my reason."

Mu, Shidou, and Kotoko all use others to fuel their actions. To tell them it's okay to be where they are and act how they are. Sometimes even to the point of blaming others for how they respond in certain situations.

"[GIGGLE] It's your fault for doing horrible things to me."

"You're in my way...hurry up and die."

"From the beginning I've never asked for your understanding! My actions, one by one, are bringing earth closer to peace. Useless weaklings should just shut up and let me protect them!"

They push themselves through their associations and the connections that they form. To the extent of it being detrimental their own Achilles hill. Because if they're validated by those around them they'll just start leaping over boundaries. Even if they weren't validated by that much.

We see that with Mu here after her verdict,

21/07/05 (Mu’s Birthday)

Mu: Yuno. Don’t you have something to say to me?

Yuno: Huh? To you? Me? ……ahh, uh? Your birthday, right?

Happy birthday~

Mu: How mean… Since it’s my birthday, I really wish you’d said something before I had to come and tell you myself.

Yuno: Right, right, I’m sorry. I’ll be more careful in future~ Later! Haha… things have become even more of a bother… ……so was that Mu-chan’s real personality, then? It’s probably because the guard did something, right?

Q.11 Which of the other prisoners do you get along with least?

Yuno: I wonder- The ones that are painful just to watch are Haruka and Mu-chan.

20/06/04

Yuno: Huh, so you go to that high school. So you are from a rich family then~! I mean, you already gave off that vibe, though. What year are you in?

Mu: First year…… Kashiki… san…… you’re older than me, right?

Yuno: Yeah, I’m in third year. But you can just call me Yuno, I don’t really like the stuffy formalities. It doesn’t really matter who’s older and who’s younger. If you squint, we’re basically the same age anyway.

Mu: ……fufu, what’s with that? But ok…… I’ll call you Yuno from now on.

"I won't be bothered...."

Just like the characters can get annoyed with each other for being annoying the fans can get annoyed with each other for the same reason and act on it with their votes. If fans of a particular character are being obnoxious, harassing others, being dismissive of or belittling the feelings of others within the fandom then some fans will decide to use their votes to do something about it instead of engaging with bad actors in good faith.

This is how individuals who went around parading like they were the only true fans ended up ruining their favorite characters reputations more. Because no one needs to explain to another person why their behavior is wrong or hurtful when they can just do something that will tangibly and passively enforce that belief anyway.

No one has to decide to vote based on the character alone when said characters fans have done something to hurt that individual personally. Milgram allows fans to vote for any reason and that includes to spite other fans who have wronged them personally. No one has to go high when others continually go low.

Personally I was waiting for the end of the trial to really discuss this facet of Milgram voting as not to impact how others decided to behave. Because yes Milgram as a series doesn't say anything about the people who consume it. It's a neutral piece of media. However, the way individuals choose to treat people in real life because of Milgram does reflect on them.

The series is not forcing anyone to behave towards other people in the ways that they have and a difference in opinion on a piece of fiction isn't an excuse to treat anyone as less than someone else. People can disagree with someone without diminishing their personhood or making assumptions about their character or values.

Just as people can just not talk about something if they don't wish to hear other people's opinions on it or have a genuine discussion about it. People could have actually engaged with the stories of Mu and Kotoko in an authentic way. Instead of making in poor taste jokes, victim blaming, racially motivated remarks, xenophobic statements, mass reporting people, and sending emotionally manipulative dms to people they quite frankly don't know enough about (or even the ages of) for that to be appropriate in any way- Though even if they did that would not have made responding in that way anymore appropriate but they probably might have thought a bit more before speaking.

The behavior of certain people in fandom is honestly why the phrase,

"You forget yourself." Exists.

And I'm speaking about across all platforms through every demographic that Milgram has reached not just Twitter, or any specific nationality of fans. Some of the behavior I've not only seen but been subjected to makes me miss talking about stuff with people in high school.

I'm American there should never be an instance considering how much shit other nationalities like talk about Americans online (most warranted) that I'm sitting here like naw this shit is out of fucking pocket I gotta go to a comic book store or find an anime club talk to some other people in my area about this. Fucking even just call a friend.

Like one of the comforts I've personally gained from experiencing Milgram is knowing full and well most of the populaces of other countries aren't as different from Americans as they like to believe they are and these two trials really embody that and were so sobering really.

Mu's actions could have been contextualized without framing her victim as doing something to deserve to die, headcanoning them as half black for laughs, using right-wing buzzwords, or even the amount off people specifically going people outside of Japan shouldn't be allowed to vote this is because of those westerners.

It's not a difficult thing to contextualize what happened without doing all that. The people who discussed this in those ways were just bad communicators. They didn't know how else to articulate themselves and hell, maybe some even thought they were actually being so funny really. Because it's fun to make fun of the very real plights of bipoc individuals and conservatism when it doesn't impact oneself personally right.

Yet associating that with Mu would only do more to damage her reputation, not help it. Because now some people may not see it as disagreeing or agreeing with Mu but the bigoted tactics of her supporters. Then we're right back at guilt by association. It's bigger than her at that point. To some people, it's not even about her or what she did anymore.

The same thing impacted Kazui's trial.

Since people wanted to highlight him speculatively being gay as a moral failing and one person was bribing people and creating superstitions in order to get him guilty. It was no longer about his trial in Milgram but more so about what it represented in reality now. The sort of message it would support if he was guilty and how that personally impacted fans.

It was the same with Amane.

They managed to scrape by an innocent verdict because these issues mattered to the people who were discussing them, and they treated them like they should matter. Neither of those were easy feats they weren't simple sweeps like any of the other verdicts this trial. They tested convictions. There were some things to discuss there.

Yet with Mu, she was treated as though there was nothing to discuss. It was game over before the starting bell even rang. So, people joked about it, threw tantrums, reduced the entirety of feminism to the idea that actually women can never do anything wrong ever, actually so there. It's not surprising that no one really wanted to engage or cared enough to try to push the verdict in another direction.

It definitely didn't help that Haruka was voted Guilty earlier in the trial and a lot of people really framed giving him that verdict as creating a circumstance in which we could vote Mu at our own discretion later without the threat of him hurting himself over our head because he'd be restrained. She was set up to fail by people more concerned about how dangerous Haruka could be to her, himself, and others if he was validated again.

People who used the idea of Haruka being guilty to go if we do that then we don't even really have to worry about making Mu innocent. Something people ran with even though they had no evidence he'd be restrained. But then, when people tried to cite Haruka's threat as a good reason to vote Mu innocent later.

Guilt by association and spite came in again. People cited the first level of restraint and him being guilty as reason enough to vote however you want. Hell, I was one of those people.

Mu was at the least fifteen when she committed her crime. It was a heat of the moment thing. She clearly and consistently has shown remorse over it. Still a good deal of her fans would rather make fun of the real societal ills that some people in the fandom face on the regular basis in a haphazard attempt to be funny than actually try to make a case for her. How can anyone be surprised she was that guilty?

Now, I feel a certain way about Kotoko's "real" fans.

The environment wasn't right for her to be innocent, and the people who liked her the most contributed to the atmosphere that ultimately led to her fall from grace. Leaving her with a guilty verdict only rivaled by Kotoko's.

That can only be explained by the knowledge I've been looping the song Not Like Us for several weeks and feeling more catharsis than I've felt in a while. Like an excessive amount of catharsis. Like it's fucked up because I really listened to every track involved in that entire beef, have been watching analysis and reactions to it and literally went yeah I did need to hear a guy get verbally obliterated really bad this year. Fucking that song and Euphoria oh my god needed that.

Tell me how the fuck a fan base of one character has several months in advance to make a case for that character and still fails? Make it make sense.

Real fans? I'm sorry real fans show up- As soon as that voice drama dropped and she said she hit kids y'all gave up. Just like a good bit of Mu's fans never even wanted to consider that she was a bully a good deal of Kotoko's fans took the I do not see it approach.

I only had a fucking snippet of Mikoto's voice drama and wrote ten speculative paragraphs on it. Her fans had the whole fucking voice drama, translations, the cover, the song, the instrumental and what did they do with it?

Alright, how'd did not talking about that work out for them?

Oh yeah they GATEKEPT it! Tag it this way, tag it that way, spoilers, spoilers, that's a leak not an official release. Milgram gives you the advantage of a several month release difference between the cd, the mv, and the official start of the trial and Kotoko's real fans did nothing with that time I guess.

They went we don't see that shit. That's a leak, that's a spoiler, don't talk about it.

Where'd it get them-

Damn girl, your fans let you have a verdict that low- What you do?

I didn't even know verdicts got that low. My god- Kotoko had it so fucking bad that Mu fans were gunning to make her more guilty than Mu. They started going she can't be more Innocent than Mu that'd be ridiculous. Bro how?!

Like I understand the reasoning, but again, several months that none of the fans of any other character had. Everybody else here that was a fan of a certain character had to get to making a case for said character the day the mv dropped. Without a translated voice drama at times.

Getting slapped with translated voice drama facts mid trial. It's ridiculous she should not be this guilty with the fucking clear advantage she very much was given. No damage control, no attempts to contextualize or even speculate on her behavior until like the middle of the trial really?! And then not even on their own just mostly passive aggressive responses to the points of other people. They can't make their own points they can only combat and rip off others.

Oh, and then the mass insinuation that people who don't understand Kotoko just aren't traumatized enough. Real good way to continually lose allies while showing people how unserious and inconsiderate others are willing to be. Oh, or victim blaming the child what did the fucking kidnapping victim do to betray Kotoko.

Because safety of children only matters when it can be used to support Kotoko's actions but the moment she's yelling at useless weaklings it's suddenly what did that child do? Just like the Mu fans trying to find a way to go well this is why her hypothetical victim deserved to die actually.

At least with Haruka a lot of what went into his verdict was genuine concern for the character and other characters safety. For Mu and Kotoko it's difficult to tell if their verdicts were even fully about what they did in the narrative or the fanbase just being fucking annoyed with the actions of others who labeled themselves as fans of the theirs.

That's the power of Guilt by Association.

Yuno: I wonder- The ones that are painful just to watch are Haruka and Mu-chan.

I don't gotta like your fucking friend because I already know I don't like you! I'm not going to like them because fuck them and fuck you. Plus vice versa what a good friend/associate you've got there. I didn't know you hung around those type of people I'd personally never hangout with people like that. All fucking things Yuno and Jackalope said to Es about their partnership with Kotoko.

Let me highlight this again for the people that don't get it in the back-

What did Haruka do other than hang out with Mu and through association he's annoying Yuno just as much. Sadly, that's just how it works. Another person can ruin someone's reputation simply through associating with them. I know some fans have been assuming certain individuals who theorize about Milgram all speak to each other and have simply been blocking individuals that seem to be on good terms with each other or vice versa (following people in the fandom who are on good terms with each other).

So, the last thing I'm personally going to do in a situation where what I want to happen is dependent on more individuals than myself working together towards that outcome is create an us vs. them environment. That's kind of counterintuitive to what I not only personally want to accomplish long-term but how I want to live in general.

The only thing behaving that way does is diminish the chances of anyone understanding another persons point, taking said point seriously, or believing that the person speaking is a considerate and respectful individual. As the person doing this usually creates a circumstance where people know full and well that this individual doesn't like them, what they are working towards isn't for them, and the person doing this probably believes that anyone else's feelings aren't important and views others voicing said opinions as a threat.

So of course when met with that sort of hostility I'm going to choose not to write anything that will help, placate, or support the ideas or views of people that are treating other real people poorly.

Oh, why was the fandom so mean to Mu and Kotoko?

In response a good few others may simply ask,

Why were some fans so cruel while still expecting others to not only make their points for them but change their mind after taking their feelings into more consideration? Despite them not once taking into consideration the feelings of others.

The level of entitlement some of the full grown adults in this fandom have to other people's ability to express themselves properly instead of working on their own communication skills.... Well, some people never see mirrors is another thing I've learned from this experience.

I'm gonna be straight with people I don't give a fuck about what the characters do in Milgram. Milgram isn't real. I do and will continue to care about how people in the real world treat others. I will get annoyed and upset when individuals in any fandom start making what I'm doing for my own personal enjoyment more difficult or the lives of others I care about worse.

All because they have no respect or consideration for anyone outside of themselves.

That's not being a true a fan that's just being a cruel person. If I or anyone else uses the only means the audience is given to interact with the series/have their voices heard to be spiteful that's just as much a part of Milgram as any other reason people have to vote. The series has always let fans choose how, why, and if they vote on the prisoners. Regardless of if it has to do with the character personally or not.

Kotoko and Mu's trial are the perfect example of this in my opinion,

In the trial two commencement notice Jackalope implied this trial would in a way be testing the cooperation skills of the fanbase. Mu and Kotoko both foreshadowed and highlighted this the best in their second voice dramas and before them. They knew that in order to succeed in Milgram they needed help. They needed the favor of others, comrades, people that valued them enough to stand by them and take into consideration their concerns over anyone else's.

When that was shown to be at risk Mu tried to work with everyone by suggesting Es just vote everyone Innocent. Then no one would singled out and her safety would be secured as well. Plus, forgiving everyone now would set a precedent of well if I was able to forgive the last thing how is this really that different. At a point, the audience would just be in too deep. In a cycle of if I can excuse this than I can really excuse anything- Does it really matter let's all just have fun and not think too hard.

It sets a mood of if it didn't matter then than it doesn't matter now.

While Kotoko on the other hand was just being like trust me be concerned with me and my feelings. Not the others. They're not like you and I Es we're,

"Let's shake hands. We will become companions."

A crime is a crime, sin is sin that's not going to change. You and I aren't like the others here though.

Just hate their evil behavior for what it is and rely on me. We're the only people we've got in here the prisoners don't like you and they don't like me. Placating them would be a waste of everyone's time. Just leave these tough calls to me.

At the end of the day, Kotoko and Mu both recognized that as much as they say, they have everything and can do it on their own... They cannot they need packs and swarms. Then their fans gave us a perfect example of why the fuck that's the case.

Yeah, I feel bad for Kotoko and Mu fans but I'm not going to mislead myself into believing how some of them publicly and privately behaved towards others within this fandom didn't put them where they ended up.

I could defend Kotoko and Mu publicly. I really could. I do so in private just fine. However, a good deal of their fans made it clear that's not my fight because they labeled me as the person they're fighting against. Unlike Futa I know how to only mind the business which minds me. No, thank you that's none of my concern. Because I've been shown through the actions of others my feelings wouldn't be given the same consideration I extend to the feelings of others.

So, why bother?

I'm not saying this to rub anything in. I'm saying this to go how people in this fandom behave impacts how the characters they openly like are treated. That too is a part of Milgram. That too is a bias that we should all take into consideration before trial three.

It's a common bias as well. It's only natural that if one has a friend that's like a certain character and they trust and care deeply about that friend then they'll probably be more inclined to vote that character innocent. If an artist you follow really likes a character and is lamenting that their verdict isn't going how they want you may feel inclined to change your verdict or if you really can't agree with changing your verdict you may even stop following that artist or fan.

These are just natural reactions.

However, the things we do as fans- The way we treat others will impact how this experience goes for all of us. Regardless of if we personally think it's fair of people to let those interactions impact how they vote or interact with the media itself. Others may still take that into consideration when making their decision because all of us are human. Yes, objectively, these should be two different things. People can like something and still dislike the fans of that thing for one reason or another.

Still it's reasonable and natural for someone to begin having muddled feelings about a idea or character when the way they interact with said idea is continually scrutinized by people who also claim to like it. At a point it may just become easier to for some to go I can't be the sort of fan this environment is expecting me to be but I can still be the sort of fan that I am and makes me happy personally. If someone has been bothered by other fans to egregious extents then they decide to vote a character guilty to get back at those fans that's a personal choice and I honestly believe it's a fair and valid thing to do.

Even without Milgram supporting any reason the audience votes. Spites honestly a great motivator. So, people can fuck around and find out I guess. Oh, wait people already fucked around I suppose we're at the find out part now huh?

I personally have never cared if things don't go my way in any of the media I'm engaging in. I'm here for the experience. I know it sucks to not get ones way. For things to turn out differently from how one wanted them to. Yet, honestly some of the people in this fandom need to calm down.

Especially if the people behaving like this are over the age of eighteen. Bro I like Terra from Kingdom Hearts a character that gets far more flack than anyone in Milgram. I'm a Damian Wayne fan. I read comics, I'm a comics fan. I've seen worse takes it should never get so serious that people are going the extra mile to harass people after they're blocked.

This is a genuine warning; please stop doing this.

I would have liked for Kotoko and Mu's verdicts to have been more of a battle. However, they were both the most disappointing trials of season 2 to me. No one could even defend them without stooping to emotionally manipulative and silencing tactics. None of the discussions around them were even a fraction of as thought provoking as the other characters trials to me.

I left feeling like Kotoko at the end of this interaction,

20/06/06

Futa: Ahh…… This is really pissing me off. I can’t believe they won’t let us have computers or phones here…… Don’t they understand our human rights? I’m gonna ask them for better treatment.

Kotoko: Human rights for murderers, huh…… Well, it’s not like there aren’t facilities that are like that. For example, in Norway, the Halden Prison allows its prisoners access to computers. Not only do their cells not have iron bars locking them in, but apparently they’re even allowed to return to their houses and go out shopping. Even compared to this place, it’s very lax. But as a result, the rate of second offence in Norway is the lowest in the world……

Kotoko: ……I’m the idiot for expecting to get a reasonable debate here.

Futa: Ahh. Yeah, Norway! The famous thing they have there! It just shows they respect their prisoners’ rights. On that point, you can really tell Japan is lagging behind the rest of the world. Because all our politicians here are just idiots.

That's the worst part of it- all that hate for something that wasn't even entertaining. Well, that's how Milgram is... Losers exit stage left indeed.

#milgram #yuzuriha kotoko #kusunoki muu #shidou kirisaki

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