#like isn't the whole point of fanon that you use canon as a jumping off point and create something that's new and your own with it???

[demetriandelibinaryboyfriends]

How I feel watching the Elimetri fandom empty out after S5 </3

People need to get over this phase of abandoning fandoms so fast. There are 70 year old women still into Spirk and you people can’t hold onto a man for a month. Shape up and stop abandoning your gently used blorbos in wet cardboard boxes on the side of the highway after a week

[ropebunnykant]

I've seen a lot of ppl frustrated at Kant/the Captain for meeting up outside the bar, but my take on it was that was a deliberate power play by CC (not that I don't think he's inept enough to do so out of sheer stupidity!) - Kant had clearly been ignoring his calls, as implied by his convo with Style and explictly seen in his convo with Bison (and when he says he's sick of his 'customer' flip-flopping and doesn't want to talk to him anymore, that's obviously a declaration of intent vis a vis continuing his relationship with the police), and what do cops do when their informants aren't co-operating? They pile on the pressure. And one way to do so is to turn up in front of their informants in public spaces, because they are happy to use the threat of blowing their cover as leverage - talk to us, or else we'll make sure everyone sees/knows what you are. Wouldn't surprise me if they had someone tracking Kant and CC sent him a message along the lines of 'either you come out or we come in.' Look at Kant's body language - he doesn't want to be there, he's frustrated, he's on edge, but at this point he's also visibly exhausted and probably on some level thinking slightly self-destructively - if he gets caught then at least it'll be over, at least CC can't use him anymore, at least he doesn't have to tell Bison himself and see with his own eyes what the truth does to him.

I know fandom in general is sympathetic to the ACAB sentiment, but I'm getting the feeling ppl don't fully appreciate just how fucked up the dynamic between a handler and an informant can be at the best of times, let alone when the handler is corrupt or at the very least abusing their position! I've seen (valid) accusations of grooming levelled against Lilly, but it's not something that only happens to children - all it takes is a significant power differential and someone who is at risk. And we've seen CC using the classic combo of praise and pressure - he switches from flattering Kant ('I know you can do this', 'you certainly lived up to my expectations') to threatening him (which goes beyond the initial outright blackmail - when he says stuff like 'you think they'll let you live once we arrest them?', that is a threat, that is him saying to Kant: we won't protect you - you quit now, you're on your own).

I really appreciated your tags on the height as power play thing, because that jumped out at me when I watched that scene, and it was so sad seeing Kant desperately trying to wrest back the upper hand and suddenly looking so much younger and more vulnerable as soon as CC stood up. And I admit we're veering into fanon rather than canon now, but it just makes me even more curious about his timeline - how old he was when he got caught? Did CC start off as a sort of quasi-father figure? Is that how he reeled him in? Did it begin, not with blackmail, but with manipulating Kant into wanting his approval? Perhaps my most burning question, however, is: what if this isn't even the first time he's been used as a honeytrap?? And I know it's most likely just First being incaptable of not having ridiculous chemistry with every single man who so much as breathes in his vicinity (let's face it, there's a reason the top three 'ghost ship' pairings on that poll are all First-based! But isn't it also because of the potential Kant brings as a character - the potential backstory tween him and Style/CC, the potential hate-sex with Fadel...), rather than anything deliberate but...the *vibes*! If you lean into that side of things and headcanon that yes, Kant did in fact fuck that cop, then phew, there is SO much to unpack there!

This is why I don't get viewers sleeping on Kant - imo he's the most interesting character! There are so many layers! Out of the main four, we probably know the least about him, and part of that is because we can't even trust that what we've ostensibly learned is even true! That whole riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma thing? That's him! And not even because he's that complicated a person deep down - most of the meta I've read here has, I reckon it'll turn out, already nailed it. It's just that a combo of the tricksy and subtle way he's been written/played and the narrative role he's been given requires us to do some of the legwork ourselves (by which I apparently mean, you know, actually paying attention and caring??) to determine what in his words/actions/feelings/face is authentic and what's not, and when, and why, etc (heaven forbid we have to read between the lines!). Maybe some more casual viewers aren't used to that in their bls, and I totally get that ppl go into shows for different reasons and some just want the light entertainment/aesthetic appreciation of it all and aren't interested in deep dives and 10,000 word analyses, and that's absolutely their prerogative! We've all been there! But equally, you don't then get to complain about the writing/acting/characterisation when, by choice, you've skipped/missed/misinterpreted what's being put onscreen (disclaimer: I'm not saying no criticism allowed - there's things I'd have tweaked - just not when it's unfounded cos it's based on viewer indifference/ignorance). I don't want to use the term 'spoon-feeding', it feels ungenerous, and yet...!

Eek, this got away from me. Long story short: don't underestimate the lengths CC will go to just to keep Kant dancing to his tune, including risking his cover by showing up outside his favourite bar!

first of all, thank you for such a long ask, i love getting things like this in my inbox and be prepared for an equally long essay of my own shskdhd i will put it under a cut since your ask in itself is pretty long, but i agree with everything you said basically

i feel like every complaint i hear about kant just leaves me so very baffled. like at a certain point, you’re just coming up with reasons to be mad at him. and like i really wish that people would just fess up to the fact that they just don’t like him. that fundamentally something about him annoys them and that’s okay! you don’t need to like every character, but it pisses me off when people try to justify their dislike of anything by pulling reasons out of their ass. and like, okay, i understand that i obviously over analyze the shit out media i enjoy, and there are a lot people that don’t do that and watch with their brain turned off or just don’t put all the little things together. and that’s fine, but if you’re gonna complain about things at least make sure you’re complaining accurately. like some people didn’t even realize that christ was a cop until ep6 and apparently thought kant was doing it all for money?? when in their FIRST scene together, it is made explicitly clear that not only is christ a cop, but that kant is being blackmailed into this in order to keep his brother in his custody. you may not personally agree with everything he does, you may disagree how much of a choice he has in everything he does, but that does not change his motivations or the power that christ holds over him - and if you don’t realize at least those things, it’s not even a matter of media literacy, you are just not paying attention! or you’re skipping scenes and like, im not telling you how to enjoy shows, if you wanna skip scenes go ahead! but you can’t then complain about things that aren’t actually happening just because you tried to piece together what happened in the scenes you skipped 💀

and this complaint is especially silly because not only does kant explicitly emphasize that he’s been avoiding the captain and therefore we can assume the captain showed up to put pressure on him, but i feel like it’s been made pretty obvious that he doesn’t really have a choice in the meet up spots regardless? like they either meet at the police station/christ’s office, or he shows up in places that kant already is to talk to him, like the pool or the bar. so, i feel like getting mad at kant for that is so stupid? especially considering even IF meeting at the bar had been kant’s decision… he didn’t know bison was gonna show up?? he thought bison was in hiding and it’s his friend’s bar, so it’s a perfectly reasonable place for him to be and to be willing to meet up with the captain like?? he could not have predicted bison showing up after disappearing for a week post-failed murder attempt. like be serious.

when it comes to the acab aspect, i think trying to dive into people’s actual beliefs on that is a can of worms that will not end well shskdhd but in the very least, looking at it from a media perspective, i think in general people expect us to be supposed to root for the cops. like whether or not what you personally believe, the general sentiment in most media is that the cops are the good guys - because that’s the way we’re trained to believe that in society at large, so more often than not, it’s assumed that the cops in most shows are the good guys.

however, when you walk into a show like the heart killers, where 3/4 of our main protagonists are criminals (two murders and a former car thief) and the genre is explicitly a romcom, you have to also understand that the cops in a show like that are not gonna be the good guys! and i think in general, you have to be willing to understand that your personal morals and beliefs are not going to line up with the things these characters are doing. this is a show about assassins! if you’re going to try and argue for who’s morally in the right or who’s the most fucked up one, maybe this isn’t the show for you. and that’s okay!

all that to say you SHOULD be suspicious of the captain and his intentions - you should not trust him as some morally good figure because he’s been explicitly shown to be blackmailing and manipulating kant in all of this! he is a villain, explicitly so. and while i know we don’t have an exact age for when kant’s parents died and he had to start raising babe or for when he got caught, it’s very safe to assume this has been a long time thing. kant says their dad died young, babe says that kant raised him, so kant had to have been young when he had to start taking care of babe, and i’m assuming also pretty young when he got caught for his car thefts. so, it would not at all shock me if the captain saw a young, college-aged kant, who’d just lost his father and was desperately trying to keep himself and his pre-teen brother afloat, and saw an opportunity to put on the mentor role and mold this kid into what he wanted and needed. i think the lilly comparison makes perfect sense - because we’ve already been shown time and time again the similarities between the captain and lilly and the ways they manipulate kant, bison, and fadel. this being another way theyre similar would be no shock to me.

nor would it be a shock if the captain also made the relationship sexual at some point and kant having daddy issues and therefore being into it makes perfect sense as well shskdhd like you said i think it’s a combo of first having insane chemistry with everyone but also just kant’s character making these dynamics interesting - which is why first was the perfect casting choice they could have made shskdhd kant’s character in general is exceptionally fascinating to me, but i feel like i’ve made that pretty obvious with all my kant posting, and i don’t get how anyone can just write him off or view him as being one dimensional in anyway when he has SO MANY layers to him. he’s incredibly complex and that’s what i adore about him.

[myfairkatiecat]

NOT TRYING TO BE RUDE, BUT i HATE KEEFE SO SO MUCH AND IM WONDERING (GENUINELY) WHAT YOU LIKE ABOUT HIM BECAUSE I CAN'T SEE THE APPEAL

ALSO YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER THIS IF IT MAKES YOU UNCOMFORTABLE OR BUGS YOU SORRY IF IT DOES EITHER/BOTH

Hey anon! Those are some strong feelings you've got there!

This is a tricky question to answer since a lot of the things that make me like Keefe's character make some people dislike his character, so you might be about to get a list of all the things you despise about him by asking me what I like about him. I like him because I think he's a good character, and way better written than people give him (or Shannon) credit for. I don't always love Wattpad Fanon Keefe (perfect boyfriend, super sweet, always says the right thing) because it erases so much of his character. I like canon Keefe. He's a raw character with a lot going on and a whole slew of well-developed character traits.

Before I jump into this post, however, I want to say one thing: I think a lot of people who dislike Keefe are mostly frustrated with Shannon's portrayal of his character flaws, and I don't think they give Shannon enough credit for the way she's intentionally written Sophie as an unreliable narrator. It's rather clear during different parts of the series that Sophie isn't the most reliable narrator, and Shannon also explicitly writes in the margins of her annotated KOTLC book that she used a certain scene as an example of when Keefe takes his jokes too far. Sophie forgives him without even an outright apology in that scene, but Shannon makes it clear in her annotations that she, the author, isn't writing it off. I don't own the annotated so I can't remember the exact quote, but it's my biggest case for why I think Shannon has intentionally written Keefe with these character flaws, as character flaws, and yes, Shannon sees them as character flaws and has said so, so for the purposes of this ask response here, let's assume Shannon Messenger is aware she's writing a flawed character, because I do think it's rather unfair to her how often the people of the fandom accuse her of brushing by Keefe's actions when in reality she's just writing Sophie Foster as true to her character as she can.

With that, let's jump into this little essay about Why Keefe Is An Awesome Character And I Love Him that I've writtten for you!

My AP English teacher always used to say, "characters are more human than humans." I believe the purpose of this quote was that well-written characters exemplify what makes us human—our love, our experiences, our regret, our strengths and flaws—in ways that connect strongly to the audience. Part of the reason so many people like Keefe's character, I believe, is because they are able to connect strongly to him. This is because he is written as "more human than humans," as my AP English teacher would say—even though technically, he's not a human, but an elf.

One major strong point of Keefe Sencen's character is that his strengths and weaknesses are often wrapped up in the same character traits. This is something that is true for many people. For example, my politeness in real life social situations makes me a lot of friends, but too often can turn to people-pleasing. A good character, in my opinion, should have both strengths and flaws stemming from all of their major character traits. Here are a few of Keefe's:

His humor

One major aspect of Keefe's character is his humor. Whether you personally find it funny or not (I think I found it a little funnier when I was eleven... I'm sorta growing out of some of it, though his wittier comments in the latest books are more my style, which might be a sign of both me and the character maturing) it's an enormous part of his character. As a major character trait, it presents both strengths and flaws.

Often, he brings levity to heavy situations that the other characters appreciate. One instance I remember is in Flashback. They were preparing for a confrontation, and I don't remember what it was that Keefe said, but Sophie narrates that she appreciated the moment of comedic relief, because it eased some of her anxiety. Keefe is able to take intense moments and settle them with quick-witted (or hilariously not funny) comments. This is likely a skill he adopted in order to handle the crushing pressure of being in his own home as a kid. (Fitz, contrastingly, adapted the skill of just holding lots and lots of weight, bending and bending and bending until he finally breaks. Not to make my Keefe essay about Fitz, of course, but I know someone is going to point out that Fitz also dealt with a lot of pressure at home, and wanted to point out that he developed somewhat unhealthy coping mechanisms as well, they're just different from Keefe's.)

However, sometimes his jokes are unwanted or go too far. Shannon comments on this specifically at the end of the first book, where Keefe makes a joke about how he helped save her when she almost died, and then sorta trailed of when he realized he was talking about her almost-death. Shannon commented in the margins that this was a moment of Keefe experiencing awareness that his joking has gone a little too far. She hasn't released annotated editions of any later books, but I'm confident that at least a few other scenes are examples of this as well. Sometimes I run across them during a read through and I'm like "huh, it's interesting to have a good idea as to what Shannon was thinking writing this." Sometimes, his constant making light of serious situations really isn't funny to anyone, and it keeps him from accepting the gravity of what they're doing, likely contributing to his reckless behavior.

2. His intuitive communication

Something to notice about Keefe is that even though he's often socially unaware, either in ways that indicate his childhood trauma or just his emotionally immaturity as a teenager, he's very good at knowing exactly what to say for his intended goal. That intended goal isn't always necessarily something he should want, mind you—we just talked about how his need to lighten the mood sometimes causes problems, and he knows enough about some of his friends (cough Fitz cough) to know exactly what words will hurt them the most in an argument as well.

This can be a strength for him, especially when he's comforting Sophie. Since he can feel her emotions instinctively, he often knows exactly what she needs to hear. He's actually incredibly sweet at times, especially in Legacy (I mean... there are other issues there, which I'll get into another time). For example, when he's telling her the reasons Bronte isn't the worst possible father for her to have. There's nothing inherently great about the specific way he comforted her, but it did ease some of Sophie's queasiness, because he knew what she needed to hear. Also, there are the scenes in Legacy where he's telling her that Sophie Foster is all she needs to be, or the scene in Everblaze where he reminds her that no matter who her parents are, she's still going to be exactly the same person she is, and they can't change her. Keefe is really good at knowing the right thing to say. (This might have stemmed from walking on eggshells his entire life aroud his parents!)

However, this also makes it really easy for Keefe to be manipulative, or lie, or say the completely wrong thing on purpose. The best example of the first two was when he somehow convinced everyone in just a few sentences that he totally wasn't going to go to Loamnore with them. Somehow, the guy famous for not doing what he's told convinced everyone he was going to do what he was told, and the thing is, it wasn't even unrealistic. He gave really good reasons that it made sense for him to stay back, and even made jokes about it, about how he and the others not going were "too cool for Loamnore." He had everyone convinced he really wasn't going to be reckless this time, when he totally knew his plan the whole time. The famous Unlocked healing center scene is a great example of the last one, because Keefe got upset with Fitz and knew exactly what to say to make him the most upset and embarassed in that situation. He only even took back the words when Sophie became upset as well. He and Fitz are in... not an awesome place in the latest books, and his POV reflects that.

3. His courage

Let's be honest. Is Keefe a runner? Yes. But when he runs, is he running from a fight? Nope. Never. One of the major instances of this guy running away actually put himself in a ton of danger. He doesn't run for cover, or safety. He runs usually out of fear of himself, his relationships, or that he isn't able to help in any other way. If we really look at his character, Keefe is incredibly brave. All of the KOTLC main cast is. They've got guts. But a lot of the others have a more guarded sort of courage, while Keefe's is... well. Not guarded.

Keefe doesn't think things through, and sometimes, there isn't time for that. Sometimes, immediate action is necessary, and Keefe is great with that. Quick, in-the-moment plans are his specialty. He's not afraid to stand up to people who want to hurt him (*cough* Dimitar scene *cough*).

But he's also extremely reckless (*cough* Dimitar scene *cough*). Because his courage is less guarded than his friends (such as Sophie's or Biana's) he may be more inclined to carry out his plans quickly, but he's also more likely to not think things through fully and end up putting his own life at risk, and sometimes even his friends' lives, even when he's trying to help.

4. His caution and fight or flight instinct

To everyone who ever said Keefe's character is flat and his strengths and flaws never develop or change, what version of KOTLC are you even reading?! Like I mentioned above, Keefe's recklessness is a huge part of his character since book one, but now I'm here about to talk about his caution/obsessive worrying/the famous running away, specifically the second time. This is a relatively new character trait for him. It develops slightly after Lodestar/the first half of Nightfall. Keefe truly did learn a lot from leaving for the Neverseen and lying to Sophie before going to Ravagog. We're given an extremely limited window into this process, since Sophie had other things going on and Keefe's short story focused a lot on his crush on her, but Keefe noticeably steps back and stops trying to turn things into a "Keefe show" (as Sophie puts it in Nightfall) and attempts to work more as a team, which is definitely character development again. However, where he really learned his lesson was Loamnore. He showed up, again going behind Sophie's back and coming up with a plan of his own, and it ended with Sophie tied up on the ground and him being forced to undergo a transformation that gave him powers he's terrified of. While his recklessness didn't entirely vanish after this (his response in the end was to run away to the literal Forbidden Cities) but is definitely flavored with siginificantly more caution and an attempt to be genuinely responsible.

In Unlocked, Keefe noticeably asks for people to be kept away from him, including Sophie, so that he can keep from accidentally controlling anybody. He also stops using his voice entirely. These are actually incredibly selfless things for him to do. He loves to be with his friends (particularly Sophie for reasons) and he loves to talk! And neither of those things are bad! But he isn't willing to put them in danger. In fact, he actually sort of overdoes it in Unlocked, even asking for Dex to make him an ability restrictor. (While he's well-intentioned here, I think Keefe brushes past the idea that making one of those again might be something of a traumatic experience for Dex.) In the end, he's so worried about it that he runs away, but he does it with considerably more of a plan than he did when he joined the Neverseen. He knew he'd know the languages, he arranged a way to get his hands on human currency, and while Unraveled isn't out yet, the state in which they found Keefe along with some of the things Keefe described about his experience make it clear that Keefe purposefully learned a lot about human cultures and successfully blended in and made his life work.

His newfound carefulness paired with his classic instinct to run really encapsulate a lot of his character strengths and flaws. In the later books, it's actually a sign that he's developing as a character and moving away from some of his past character flaws, but like all well-written major character traits, it comes with its own drawbacks.

Another important aspect of Keefe's character is the way he is noticeably shaped by his own experiences. I mentioned the whole "being more human than human" thing earlier, and while yes, he's still not human, I think this is part of what makes so many people connect to his character. He's realistic. He has even more strengths and flaws than the ones I've mentioned above, and all of them obviously come from somewhere specific in his past.

Why is he so chronically unserious? Because he couldn't be serious enough for his family. Before he met Fitz and started spending time with the Vackers, he didn't even really have friends. He had a suffocated home and impossible expectations, and when he tried to live up to them, he just wasn't good enough. So he adapted to break the tension. He adapted to just... not try ("those who don't try never look foolish" -Fiyero in "Dancing Through Life," from Wicked. I think Fiyero is... very Keefe coded) and started skipping classes, breaking the rules, playing pranks and doing anything to cut through the tension. He dealt with pressure by tossing it off his shoulders and just deciding to not deal with it. Obviously, deciding to Just Not Deal With Things eventually began to hurt him, and he slowly and painfully begins to learn to have difficult conversations (but hey, at least he's getting there? I think Neverseen is where his development in that particular area becomes apparent, with the way he opens up more and even admits where he's really beginning to feel guilty).

Why is he such a master of knowing what to say? Because he grew up walking on eggshells around his parents. And when he decided to stop caring about his parents, he weaseled his way out of trouble whenever possible, and learned to use other people's emotions to learn things from them and get his way. "But Katie," you say, "reading other people's emotions without permission and using them to get his way is a very not good thing to do!" You're very correct! And it's an enormous indication of how skewed his view of normal is. What's the one Empath he grew up observing? His father. Look, he knows his parents suck, but because his parents suck, he has no way of knowing what is and isn't normal. Is his father doing this particular thing because he's a horrible person or because that's a normal thing to do? How on Earth is Keefe supposed to know?! Well, there are rules about telepathy, and there aren't any rules about empathy, so the external indications seem to tell him that this particular thing is normal. This is yet another example of Keefe's life experiences having a huge impact on his character.

Why is he so reckless? Because he doesn't care. Even his his most noble moments of bravery stem from the same place of not caring what happens to his life. It's the same reason his deep care for his friends' lives turns to quickly into self-sacrificial tendencies (which show themselves in canon on numerous occasions and usually don't even help). He has this "better me than any of them" mindset that's deeply rooted in his childhood trauma. Even though he's fought tooth and nail against everything his parents have ever said about him, he still has this ingrained sense of worthlessness. The way he says he "doesn't care about permanent damage" and tells Sophie that he's going to make sure he's always the one who ends up wrapped up in bandages and also has that moment in Unlocked where he wants to retreat into the darkness and never wake up? Look, we all know he needs therapy, but maybe reread that last sentence. ...Keep reading it until you get it.

And finally, what makes him finally learn to be cautious? Because he sees firsthand how his reckless plans are impacting the lives of other people around him, and if there's any negative trait that Keefe is NOT, it's selfish. Keefe may be occasionally selfish—you know, case by case basis, like most people—but it isn't a character trait of his by any means. He struggles significantly more with not caring about himself than he struggles with not caring about others. So when he realizes it isn't only his own life he's putting on the line, and sees the way it's hurting his friends, he takes an enormous step back, and even runs away for a time. Now, it would be great if he would start caring about himself too, because this poor guy needs therapy and his level of self-deprecation at this point is way out of control. But it is the case that he cares about his friends a lot (if someone quotes this part and brings up Fitz, I'm going to point out that their friendship has fallen way out due to actions and reactions on both sides of that relationship) and ultimately it ends up adjusting the balance in his character traits and their related strengths and flaws.

In short, Keefe is a lot of things. He's good things, he's bad things, he's consistent things. He reads like a real person—someone who frequently makes the same style of mistakes but does learn and grow over the course of his life. Every character trait of him stems from some aspect of his past. Shannon didn't write him with a slew of random personality traits—each and every one of them ties down to who he is and how he's shaped by his experiences. He can be a truly amazing friend. He can be a really horrible friend. He can be sweet and amazing and say the perfect thing. He can say the wrong-est possible thing with the intention of cutting the other person deep. He's a slow learner, but he learns nonetheless. His character development isn't a smooth arc in which he has trait A, event B happens and at the end he has trait C. That's common in storytelling, but not real life. Keefe learns, grows, then makes the same mistake again, then learns stronger. His character development sees both growth and setbacks, and the changes are subtle. He's still the same person even when he changes.

He's good things, he's bad things, he's consistent things, and I think it is out of an awareness of our own humanity that so many people relate to him and therefore enjoy his character.

I hope you enjoyed this essay, anon. Believe it or not, I actually have plenty more to say about any of these topics, and some other topics that I didn't even bring up, so if you want to see even more, just direct me towards what you want to hear and I assure you I'll have thoughts. Have a wonderful day!

[aalghul]

You have a lot of accusations with pandaredd and some of them don't really add up. Like with Jason everything you mentioned is false or out of context. Like he regularly mentions Jason loves to read and brings up the dude having a library in the mansion, he likes the BftC costume but isn't a fan of pill jason or evil red head Jason, I don't know how you see his Jason as a thug either. He did a whole Black mask skit about how competent Jason is. Like is this from his comments?

He’s said before that BftC is his (or one of his) favourite Jason comic. One skit doesn’t change that most of his skits feature Jason being an idiot. I haven’t watched his stuff in a while but off the top of my head, the “Robin using rogues for homework help” skit has Robin Jason as overly violent and angry when compared to the others. I’m not saying he’s got the worst interpretation of Jason ever, just that it’s mostly flawed and the exact same as the shallow “Jason loves to read but he’s also an angry meathead” thing fanon has going on. I actually really enjoyed his videos on CW’s Titans and The New Adventures of Batman. That doesn’t change that a big chunk of his characterization of Jason in his content is based off what I consider to be some of the worst writing.

Anyways, if that was the only issue I had with him, I wouldn’t even bother saying anything because he can make whatever content he wants. My issue is that he’s misogynistic in the way he talks about Steph and his (lack of) inclusion of Cass in…anything. His brand is Batfamily content but I think what he means is the “the four male Robins he can pretend are all white”, seeing as Cass and Duke don’t really exist to him as main family members (side characters, if he wants to remember them. I don’t know if he’s ever used Duke. I don’t care about his hatred for the N52 because he’s still read it. And Cass isn’t N52 exclusive, so there’s still no excuse for her). He can do as many “female character spotlights” or whatever he wants, but the way he talks about Stephanie alone makes me resent him. He did a series on female characters for Women’s History month (or something like that) and a good chunk of Steph’s video was about Tim and praising him for not being a jerk (which isn’t even accurate because so much of timsteph in canon was very disgusting and misogynistic). Jumping back to my point about Duke (and Cass), any time he’s brought up Talia has been awful. She’s either (a) evil, abusive assassin lady but good thing Damian’s above that and her OR (b) “haha, I slept with you mom” joke from Jason, as if Jason wouldn’t have been at most 17 at the time, like the whole thing wasn’t steeped in the Arab seductress trope, and as if Winick himself hasn’t admitted it wasn’t a mistake.

[reddbuster]

This is a really interesting take on the twins and I agree with a lot of it. I for sure agree with what you've said about Iris, she DEFINITELY get flattened as a character both in the way the game itself treats her/resolves her story and by the fanbase that treats her as just the nice/good one and doesn't look much deeper, which is a shame because imo she has a LOT of potential as a character. Her relationship with Dahlia and how it evolved over the years, from their shared childhood to being split up to iris's eventual 'betrayal' of Dahlia, has the potential to be really interesting, and so does the relationship between Iris and Pearl which hardly even exists in the game.

Not to mention all the stuff about her relationship with Phoenix and how that gets flattened. I mean once again unfortunately I'm not sure if the game actually cares much about what their relationship was like, just the fact that it existed. So we don't really get any conflict between Iris and Phoenix at all in either canon OR fanon. Like, in my opinion a big point of Bridge to the Turnabout was that the whole situation was kind of just messed up for everybody, and there wasn't necessarily a "right answer" to anything that went down. So yeah Iris had good intentions, and yeah she didn't want to hurt anybody both in the past and in BTTT. But she did anyway, and I would love if the fandom would explore the potential consequences of that a little bit more even when the game wouldn't. Like, of course phoenix doesn't think she's a bad person or bear her any ill will. I do think that makes sense with his character. But there's no way anyone in his position would be able to just jump right into being besties with her. Even if they leave off on friendly terms, there's still gonna be tension and there's gonna be a lot of lingering hurt. Iris is a MESSY character who's had a messy life and that makes her a lot more interesting to me. Though I do think this is getting better as people become more aware of it, there's definitely still a large problem in fandom of people feeling the need to push female characters into neat little boxes of "completely and utterly evil" or "perfect sweetheart who's never done anything wrong ever". And just people in general but ESPECIALLY female characters and I think that really comes to light in the way people treat often the Hawthornes, especially Iris.

Now Dahlia, on the other hand. I personally do think Dahlia was done wrong by the game and by the fandom, but in a completely different way than Iris is. Where Iris just isn't given a ton of characterization and her potential to play a compelling role in the narrative is under-utilized, Dahlia IS given a compelling role and a lot of background that adds to her complexity. Dahlia's writing isn't shallow the way Iris's kind of was. Imo, the problem with Dahlia's story is her ending. Or, I guess what I really mean is that I don't like the way her story and eventual defeat are framed in the story. She has the backstory and motive and slow descent into evil and yada yada and the game TELLS us about all this stuff but it doesn't stop her from being mostly framed by the game as just being straight up evil. There's one scene in bttt where Iris mentions that Dahlia might have turned out different if she'd had more support from people around her like Iris did, which I adore, but it's pretty much the only scene where it feels like the game is being somewhat pitying to her story. In other scenes she's pretty much always framed as an evil, wolf-in-sheep's-clothing type of character. The best way I can articulate it is that the game is kinda empathetic to dahlia's story, but it's not SYMPATHETIC to her. The part that really drove this home for me was the ending of bttt. I mean, look at Diego. Mind you he hasn't committed as many crimes as Dahlia has, but he's still very much a morally grey character. The end of his story is framed as a tragedy, because it IS a tragedy. He did bad things, but he also got fucked over by life pretty bad. It's a bittersweet ending because we saved Maya, but the man we've painted as our culprit was also a victim of his circumstances. But Dahlia's defeat? she isn't even really framed as a person by the end of the story. She's a demon, an evil spirit that needs to be exorcised, without a shred of humanity left. Now obviously Dahlia and Diego are different characters, but they aren't dissimilar either. Their stories are deeply and messily connected, to the point you could consider them narrative foils of a sort. So it kind of bugs me that they're treated so very differently. But ultimately I do think Dahlia is pretty well written and a great villain, I just think she deserved better because her story arc was good but it could have been great, you know? I love Dahlia for the character that she is, but, like Iris, she becomes a LOT more interesting if you look below the surface and start exploring all the avenues that the game didn't.

What it really all comes down to is that I really like the Hawthorne twins, both from a technical writing perspective and on a personal level. However, I also think both of them (albeit in different ways) fall into some kind of misogynistic writing tendencies/tropes and I think that's worth taking into account when analyzing their writing. Obviously these games are a product of their time and I'm saying all this out of love for these stories and characters, but when it comes to media analysis I think it's always valuable to mindfully examine the patterns in the way characters are treated, including looking at things through a feminist lens.

Anyway sorry for the brain vomit this post brought up a lot of thoughts I've had kind of stewing in my brain for a while

I've been thinking a lot about how fandom attitudes towards female characters shift, and how a lot of the outright hatred that was once prevalent now is replaced by "girlboss" "mom friend" "only braincell" type discourse... and also about the Hawthorne twins and what I see of them in fandom vs canon.

It's interesting to me that I see a lot of what feels like a fandom desire to rehabilitate Dahlia as a character from a feminist perspective, sometimes taken as a given that her canon material was bad, when ...tbqh I don't really feel that she needs it. If I think of characters wronged by their canon text, Dahlia wouldn't make the list. Even a surface-level reading of Dahlia is, imo, a compelling character, with clear motivations, consistent behaviour, agency. She's funny and memorable. You can dig deeper into speculation and headcanon territory with Dahlia (and I totally get the impulse, she's great and there's lots of potential there) but I don't think you need to do that to make her a solid character, I think she already is. I don't think she's any less complex than the other trilogy villains, and if anything she's a lot more complex already than someone like Engarde, and on par with Von Karma.

On the other hand, I think Iris got some paper-thin writing as "the good twin" and, let's be honest, a feeble attempt to set up a heterosexual romance for Phoenix which gets dropped in subsequent games anyway. There are interesting possible complexities to tease out of Iris, just as with Dahlia; Iris facilitates or participates in some pretty messed-up things, but Phoenix and the story are very forgiving, which just flattens her out further into Good Twin. I don't think the canon is very interested in Iris outside of her role as plot twist doppelganger and occasional blush sprite... and mostly it seems the fanon Iris gets in response is to quadruple down on those things. She's pure and kind and sweet, besties with Phoenix, their relationship is cast as something wholesome and innocent, despite the uh objective reality of it.

What about the Iris who helps her sister plan harebrained criminal schemes only to back out at last second, the Iris who fell in love with Feenie despite herself and yet continued to lie and place him in danger for eight months, who watched Dahlia get a death sentence without ever coming clean ... Those things are the aspects that would make her a multidimensional character, imo, but they're ignored and/or glossed over in the story and (what I've seen of) fandom. And I don't say this to mean that she's evil or irredeemable or something, she isn't -- just that the basic fact of her actions is a lot messier than is usually acknowledged, by canon or fanon. For the canon I think the reasons are obvious and not flattering; for fandom, I think the intentions are generally positive, trying to correct for the opposite end of the spectrum (and 20 years ago the attitude was probably quite different), but I still wish female characters were given more space to be complicated in ways that include being kind of fucked up actually.

[ratcandy]

Hey clam be honest

Do you honestly still enjoy AHIT? I’ve noticed a lot of your posts being complaints. If this game is causing mainly negativity I’d suggest you try to drop the interest. Try to focus on interests that actually make you happy. I’m sorry if this comes off as weird but I don’t want you to have to stay in this fandom if all it does is irritate you. You don’t have to cater to us. Do whatever makes you feel best.

Oh worm, I kinda figured something like this would come up eventually.

Do I still enjoy AHIT? - Yes! Uh-huh! I'll be the first motherfucker who jumps on any new content to come out from GFB and I'll consume it readily! I still very much like playing the game and have a great time fucking around in it!

But I think what I enjoy the most at this point is just messing around in my own little versions of the game, plot/story-wise. Fucking around with funny ideas and world-building or my oWn silly character development.

Where most of my complaints come in is well. Yknow. Canon plot and story just frustrates me endlessly, and I think that's been made obvious by the fact I'm writing a whole rant about it. The only other issue with canon being so, uhm, lackluster, is that sometimes fanon or the fandom's interpretations aaarreee nnnott much better - which I think we've all been witness to at one point or another, especially with uhh recent takes - leaving me to just kinda sit here like Well. My city now ig!

So yea. Either canon pissing me off beyond reason or just an interpretation of canon that will (at times irrationally) set me off due to me being an argumentative little pissbaby.

But what I think I should make clear is that I fuckin love debate. Arguing is fun to me. Picking apart what doesn't make sense or outlining why something is wack or wrong is something I find enjoyment in. I love ranting. Specifically in a literature/writing sense because god no do not try to spark argument with me about real world morals or politics or whatever sdKHKJH-- So when I rant and get "mad" and bark and maim and kill over this game oh I'm having a grand old time of it. MmmmOST of the time, because there are certainly exceptions (that has to do more with certain people as opposed to certain game elements, and no, I will not be naming any names because I'm not that much of a bitch lol)

In conclusion yea no, I'm not catering to anyone! I think the fact that I just about readily argue to anything should in and of itself be proof of that pfff I've dropped ahit and meandered around to other interests rather frequently! I just also come back and pick it up again whenever reminded of it. Thinking or ranting about ahit isn't putting any strain on my mental health, don't you worry lmao. If and when I get tired or bored of it I quite easily kick that thing to the curb and go think about zote for a few hours pfff

[dragynkeep]

I started watching RWBY a few months ago (even though through Tumblr I basically know the whole storyline via gifsets lol) I've literally just finished Volume 3, which so far is my favorite season. There's one thing though, it's not even a RWBY thing, it's a fandom thing, maybe it's brought up in later seasons idk.

Why is fanon Yang a butch lesbian?

Like I said maybe I'm not there yet, but so far she isn't butch at all? I mean she fights using martial arts and rides a motorbike, but I wouldn't consider her at all 'butch', y'know? Also she's expressed interest in men?

Going from RWBY then into the fandom it's like two very different Yangs. It feels like when people ask who is the man and woman in a same sex relationship, and the fandom has picked Yang for the former. It's so off putting. Also why erase Yang's interest in men? It happens a lot I've noticed in fandoms, it's like only 1 character is allowed to be bi in a same sex relationship. Since the fandom can't ignore Blake's interest in men (because of Adam) they've decided to ignore Yang's instead.

I'm bi myself and the fandom's attitude towards Yang honestly makes me super uncomfortable. I'm aware of future volumes getting slated for their lack of quality in storytelling, which I'm fine with for the moment. But in the case of Yang (who is my favorite character) does she later get written as 'butch' and identify as a lesbian? Or is it just the fandom being gross? Because that's the deciding factor on whether I continue.

Biphobia and heteromorative expectations on wlw relationships. It's not just the FNDM's fault, the show itself has really gone deep into masculinising Yang for no reason, and every way of looking at it is a whole bunch of YikesTM.

She's being heavily pushed into a relationship with Blake, so one needs to be the man and the other needs to be the woman. Blake has been shoved into a more submissive role and personality to match, she can't stand up for herself anymore especially with racists, and needs Yang to come save her.

Meanwhile Yang has been shoved into the role of the man. The FNDM and the show has taken away her feminine likes and aspects of her character to focus purely on the masculine ones, especially how she's a party girl who does enjoy dressing femininely while also liking traditionally masculine things. You can't have a WLW relationship with two butch or two femme, and it very clearly shows in how the FNDM and the show treats BB.

Nora also likes masculine things while dressing femininely, but she still gets to keep her feminine aspects while in a relationship with Ren. I wonder why.

Add onto how many who have Yang as a lesbian straight up ignores her attraction to men. Prefaced with this: there is nothing wrong with headcanoning Yang as a lesbian, headcanons are meant to be fun, but people take it way to far as to say it's canon and compltely brush off the fact that Yang has canonically shown an interest in men.

It's not comphet because comphet does not exist in remnant.

Homophobia, transphobia, basically any bigotry outside of Faunus racism and kingdom xenophobia exists in Remnant. You cannot have comphet in a world where these things do not exist because you need homophobia and the assumption that the default is being straight and cis to be a thing for comphet to be a thing.

It's not there? Neither is comphet.

And again, because people cry lesbophobia when this gets pointed out, you can headcanon about comphet in remnant, you can put it in there for your writing or AUs, and even use it for certain characters like Yang, but stop saying it's canon and stop treating people like they're wrong for saying it's not.

When BB finally gets its confirmation in the way that Arkos and Renora have been allowed, Yang will either be bisexual or pansexual, or even asexual, and that will be fine. She's still wlw, but people need to realise that their headcanons on Yang are not the same as canon, and they don't need to jump headfirst into biphobia when there are already numerous lesbians in RWBY's small rep pool.

Let other people have their turn.

[angelofthequeers]

If canon!Luka is too much of a blank slate, and fanon!Luka is basically Adrien-lite, what would you fo if you had to fix his character? Not a stan or anything like that, I agree with you on Luka, it's just I saw many posts like like yours about him but not a single one that said: "This is what I would do if I had to give him depth:", please correct me if I'm wrong and just didn't look hard enough. (I'm on mobile and English isn't my native language, please be gentle (._.))

Just have him not revolve around Marinette. That’s literally it. More detail and an analysis of a few scenes below the cut, because that’s the simple answer to your question but I have to go in-depth to really explain where I’m coming from. And your English is just fine! I’ll kick the kneecaps of anyone who makes fun of you for it, because heck if I can speak anything other than English. All the quotes I use are from the transcripts on this site here.

Luka’s got a few basic traits and some hints of flaws but because his screen time revolves solely around his love interest - with the exception of that one scene in ‘Reflekdoll’ with Juleka - they haven’t been developed nearly as much as they could have been, and so we haven’t seen him developing independently of Marinette because any character development is tied directly to her. For example, it could be a double-edged flaw slash core personality trait that he doesn’t get too angry on behalf of himself but he gets furious when someone he loves is threatened. It would be a nice parallel to Adrien and serve to further show how they’re foils. But since we’ve only seen him getting angry on behalf of Marinette, it’s not nearly as fleshed-out a trait as it could have been. If we’d even had just one scene of him reacting to Juleka’s akumatisation, it would’ve expanded him so much further than as just a love interest.

Whether Kagami is objectively more developed is an argument I don’t want to get into, even if I’m going to analyse her below, but she definitely comes across as a lot more fleshed out because she doesn’t exist to revolve around Adrien. Her debut episode involves Adrien but isn’t focused on him and her (first) akumatisation isn’t due to her role as Adrien’s love interest, whereas Luka’s akumatisation episode focused very pointedly on his role as Marinette’s love interest. He only got mad enough to attract an akuma once Bob Roth threatened Marinette, not when the music of his entire band was threatened - because it’s not just him in Kitty Section, and one of the other members is his sister. I can quote the scene and put bold emphasis on how his anger only really flares when it’s Marinette he’s talking about.

Luka: That’s not true! You copied Marinette’s costumes!

Marinette: And it’s the exact same song. You stole Luka’s music!

XY: Oh, come on. Let’s not exaggerate now. We may have just been a little bit… inspired, that’s all.

Luka: Inspired? You flat out stole! You didn’t design this mask! (rips mask from XY’s head) Marinette did!

Marinette: Listen, it’s not too late to do the right thing. Just tell the truth and let Kitty Section appear on the show. That’s all we’re asking.

Bob: Yeah. First they’ll wanna be in the show. Then they’ll be asking for a cut of the profits. No way! Never saw or heard of Kitten Division.

Luka: Forget it, Marinette. It’s no big deal. Let’s just go.

Marinette: No! It’s not fair! I won’t stand by and let my friends’ work get stolen. (to Bob) If you won’t tell the truth, then I will! Right now, on the air, live! (walks up to the camera)

Bob: (grabs Marinette’s arm) If you do that, I’ll tell them you’re the copycats, not me. I’ve got all the music biz eating out of my hand. So who do you think they’re gonna believe? Me, or a group of nobodies?

Luka: Grrr…

Bob: You’ll never have a future in this business. You’ll never make another costume. And there’ll be no more music for your buddies because as far as everyone’s concerned, you’ll be the rip-off artists.

Luka: Grrr…

.

(The akuma enters the mask Luka is holding)

(’Silencer’)

Luka’s primary concern in this scene is that Marinette was cheated. Marinette is the one bringing up Kitty Section and how their music was stolen, but Luka is laser-focused on how Marinette’s designs were stolen. Even when they first see the stolen music video as a group, he’s focused on Marinette.

Ivan: But that’s our original style!

Luka: (to Marinette) Your unicorn, and your mask!

Marinette: (to Luka) That’s your melody. (to Rose) It’s your music. That’s not fair! That should be you guys up there on TV. There better be a good explanation. We have to have it out with Bob Roth and XY.

Again, Marinette is the one to bring up how Kitty Section was cheated. Marinette and Ivan. And again, Luka was focused on how Marinette was cheated. This episode could have been a great way to flesh out Luka, to show his dedication to his band and his furious desire to protect his loved ones, but it ends up being just a whole 22 minutes of him revolving around Marinette. This is literally the episode of him being The Perfect Boyfriend, for people to project their ideals onto and squee about how he’s so perfect and romantic for Marinette. Leaving out that Adrien and, arguably, Chat haven’t needed flowery speeches and a laser focus on only Marinette/Ladybug to win her heart, and she constantly goes back to him whereas, like I mentioned in my last post about Luka, she seems to kind of just…blush and then move on from Luka’s confession.

Now let’s compare the scene before Kagami’s akumatisation and bold her focus:

Kagami: (She sighs in defeat, then walks up to Adrien, offering her hand for a shake, which Adrien takes. Kagami calmly walks out of the room.)

.

Adrien: I’m going to offer him a decisive match. (He goes running after Kagami, grabbing her saber from the ground as he goes. Kagami is about to get into her car when Adrien catches up to her) Hey! Wait! Your saber!

(Kagami throws her glove into the car and removes her helmet, turning to look at Adrien expectantly. As she does so, Marinette runs up to the school entrance.)

Adrien: (Momentarily stunned by her appearance.) Let’s do a… decisive match? (As he speaks, he notices Kagami’s ring.)

Kagami: What’s the point? You won. There’s no such thing as a second chance in my family. Goodbye. (She gets into her car, which drives off.)

.

Kagami’s mother’s: (Voicemail) I’m not available at the moment. Leave a message. (Beep!)

Kagami: Mother, you thought I was good enough, but… I lost. I won’t be joining the D'Argencourt Academy. (she hangs up and sits back in her seat. The akuma flies into her ring.)

Hawk Moth: Riposte! I am Hawk Moth. I’m giving you a second chance to prove that you are the best fencer of all, but in return, you must bring me Ladybug and Chat Noir’s Miraculous.

Kagami: On my honor, Hawk Moth, I shall be victorious! (She transforms into Riposte, slicing open a new sun roof into her car and leaving.)

(’Riposte’)

Even the locations of the akumas give that little extra boost of characterisation. Kagami’s is in her ring, showing the audience that her drive is to be the best and make the Tsurugi family proud and she and her mother don’t tolerate failure, because they stake their honour on success. Luka’s is in the mask that Marinette made, which just shows that…he’s angry because Marinette was wronged. And yes, Hawkmoth’s speech includes the line of “The anger of a creator whose work has been stolen” but considering that every bit of Luka’s anger up to this point has been focused on Marinette, it just…rings hollow. The Lukanette stans noticed this too, but they took it as a positive and used it to shout about how much Luka loved Marinette and how sweet it was that she was the reason he was akumatised - and believe me, I used to be there, I’ve seen it.

And yes, I know that ‘Oni-Chan’ exists. I know that Kagami’s reason for akumatisation revolved around Adrien and that her akumatised object was the rose that he gave her. But I’m focusing on debut akumas and even then, it shows that there’s a jealous, possessive side to her. It works with her previous appearances to round her out, to show that she’s driven and ambitious but also jealous and possessive. ‘Ikari Gozen’ takes this even further and shows that she’s awkward and wants to make friends but doesn’t know how to interact with other people, and it furthers her focus on honour and worthiness and shows that she ties her self-worth with her success:

Hawk Moth: How tragic it is to feel unloved. Alone, deprived of friendship. (turns a butterfly into an akuma) Fly away, my little akuma, and evilise her!

.

Kagami: I guess I’m not worthy of our friendship; our bloodtypes must be too incompatible.

(’Ikari Gozen’)

Although each episode that she’s in does feel like a totally different portrayal of her, and a lot of criticism/dislike for her came from how she felt all over the place, they’ve also come back together to tie her together as a multifaceted character: someone who’s ambitious and must be the best (’Riposte’), who sees romance as a competition like she does fencing (the whole “change your target” to Adrien and “I never hesitate” to Marinette in ‘Frozer’ and her admission that she has to win Adrien’s heart in ‘Heart Hunter’) - which further adds to her lack of ability to navigate social situations that’s expanded upon in ‘Ikari Gozen’, an episode that also emphasises her fatal flaw of never hesitating. Yes, she’s right to say that hesitation can cost you, but this episode shows that some hesitation is necessary, and jumping into things without thinking and expecting everyone else to do so will definitely lead to some stumbles.

Every time Luka’s on the screen, I don’t really learn anything new about him. All I know is that he’s romantic and likes Marinette and only gets angry on behalf of his loved ones. His first meeting with Marinette focused on how he found her cute and how she was flustered, whereas Kagami’s first meeting with Adrien wasn’t focused on the Adrigami ship outside of Adrien’s Pink Bubble Love Stupor. And first meetings tend to set the tone of how characters are going to interact. Marinette/Adrien and Marinette/Kagami’s first meetings focused on misjudgement and how someone’s impression of another person isn’t necessarily correct, and we see this with how Marinette goes gaga over Adrien and has her moments of seeing him as a perfect Greek god (which isn’t to say that she worships him like a fangirl, but rather that her crush is acting as major rose-tinted glasses) and how she blows Kagami up as an evil villain in her mind until she pops her own bubble and makes herself see Kagami as another person instead of an evil rival. And Ladybug/Chat Noir’s first meeting focused on having to build a partnership on the spot and showed how Chat didn’t fall for her until after she’d stood up to Hawkmoth and declared that they would protect Paris. But Marinette/Luka’s first meeting shows that Marinette gets flustered around pretty boys and Luka just…up and decided that he liked her. It shows that Luka’s focus is going to be Marinette and that’s it.

I’ll cut Luka a little slack and admit that yes, ‘Desperada’ did have him become Viperion because “Desperada attacked my friends and my family”, just as Kagami became Ryuuko to save her mother, and this scene wasn’t specifically focused on how Marinette and only Marinette might have been affected. But the starting scene of the episode once more shows us something else about Kagami - that she’s got a mischievous side and is starting to be rebellious and sneak around behind Tomoe’s back - while showing us nothing about Luka except that he’s…got a crush on Marinette, which appears to be reciprocated, and that he’s good at guitar. Which we already knew.

Marinette: You’re so talented, Luka. How long have you been playing for?

Luka: Since I was in diapers. (strums guitar)(Marinette giggles.)

Alix: I get the feeling Marinette likes Luka a lot.

.

Alix: Your father let you out?!

Adrien: We’re officially at fencing practice right now, but - oh, no, Kagami. Isn’t this the wrong address?

Kagami: Oh, dear, I think you’re right.(Adrien and Kagami chuckle.)

(’Desperada’)

Even the ending scenes of Luka and Kagami’s debut episodes set the tone for them. In Luka’s debut of ‘Captain Hardrock’, the ending is focused on his role as Marinette’s new love interest and as a rival of Adrien’s, even if they don’t actually see each other as rivals.

Adrien: Thanks, uh…

Luka: Luka.

Adrien: Thanks, Luka.

Alya: (To Marinette): Is the compass going crazy?

(’Captain Hardrock’)

On the other hand, Kagami’s debut episode ending focuses on how she craves friends and would love to get to know a friend of Adrien’s, along with her competitiveness and desire to win in a now-friendly rivalry that grows into a friendship and then romance, rather than love at first sight. Just like the meetings between Marinette/Adrien and Ladybug/Chat Noir, it sets the scene and promises more to come, rather than laying all the cards on the table and basically just stating “yeah, this character’s just gonna be a love interest and just be chill and co-exist with their love rival” like the Marinette/Luka and Adrien/Luka ones do.

Adrien: Please, take it. (He again holds out Kagami’s saber to her.)

Kagami: (She glances between Adrien and her saber for a moment before taking it back) I’ll be happy to get to know your friend Marinette! (She and Adrien bow to each other. She and Adrien look at each other for a moment before Adrien holds out his hand.)

Adrien: My name’s Adrien. What’s yours?

Kagami: Kagami. (She takes Adrien’s proffered hand and shakes it, then walks to her car. She looks back at Adrien.) Get ready for that decisive match!

Adrien: I can’t wait, Kagami.

So basically, to give him depth, I wouldn’t focus so much on his guitar. I’d maybe show someone getting annoyed that he defaults to his guitar, because we got one line in ‘Captain Hardrock’ that he finds it easier to speak through music but it doesn’t really flesh him out since no one else comments on it or gets annoyed by it. It’s a trait that’s got nothing else to work off, whereas Kagami’s awkward attempts to socialise with Marinette and her abrasive manner clash with Marinette’s misconceptions of her and create that scene in ‘Ikari Gozen’ where Marinette realises that she’s treated Kagami awfully and Kagami said that she wasn’t worthy of Marinette’s friendship. Like Luka’s guitar, Kagami’s awkwardness and bluntness aren’t inherently a flaw, but they act as one in certain circumstances and end up fleshing her out just that little bit more.

I’d focus a little more on his relationships with everyone else. At least with Kagami, we know that she’s awkward and has no friends outside of Adrien (and later Marinette), so it makes sense that she wouldn’t have very many other relationships. We’ve even seen her relationship with her mother and how her few friendships - Adrien and Marinette - are influencing her to change and become more rebellious, such as the escape scene in ‘Heart Hunter’. I’m not counting Instagram posts, otherwise I’d point out Kagami spending time with Marinette’s friends as well and bonding with them as more evidence. But Luka’s part of a band and canonically hangs out with Marinette and her friends, so to break him free of just being a satellite love interest to orbit around Marinette, just show him interacting with others independent of Marinette. Show more of him being a big brother to Juleka; show how he interacts with Rose, as Juleka’s best friend; show the relationship between him and his mother, because they seem to be more like house(boat)mates at this point, and Anarka and Tomoe have had roughly the same amount of screen time, especially with their kids.

I’d also make him a little more of a rival to Adrien. He doesn’t have to be mean and antagonistic like how the Marinette/Kagami rivalry started - a rivalry doesn’t necessarily have to be negative - but he does have to show some reaction to losing Marinette to Adrien. All he ever does is push her into Adrien’s arms, which is all well and good to show how selfless he is, but he’s never visibly upset. His smile never wavers. He never shows any sign of being upset at losing the girl he supposedly loves to someone else; he’s basically just The Perfect Boyfriend who’s willing to let Marinette go if it means her happiness with no hurt feelings on his part, and the only force of rivalry that he exerts on Adrien is just making Adrien think that Marinette’s into him and therefore isn’t available, which isn’t even anything that Luka himself does, so I can’t even give that credit to him. He just…exists. While Marinette pushes Adrien and Kagami together for Adrien’s happiness, she shows outward signs of distress. She still gets jealous even though this is a decision she made. She’s sad over it. She’s human. But Luka? You could probably replace him with a pot plant and nothing would change.