#like i mean obviously naruto & sasuke have a thing but like with kishimoto doing final heterosexual pairings

[orcelito]

Haven't been able to watch too much naruto recently. Been watching Maybe an episode a day ish. I just finished ep 419 tho and WHAT an episode to have ahead of me for grand number 420. Can't watch it rn tho bc I need to sleep and also I'm too tired to give it the full attention that I want to. Bc when I watch it, I will be embracing !!!!THE!!!! legendary Guy vs Madara fight in its FULL FORM!!!!!!

So exciting. God they're laying some major death flags lol, between the flashbacks stuff and the gate of death and well the saying he's gonna die 😂😂😂 I know he does survive it tho. But I'm also embracing this part with the Possibility of him dying. Bc that's what the others are reacting to too. And I wanna experience the full depth of emotion....

Excited for watching this next episode!!! It just cannot be right now.

[sueske]

Not to come off as pretentious but it really feels like no one but people on tumblr are able to really understand sasuke, naruto and their relationship. Like on other sites like tiktok, twitter or Instagram, of course you have it infected with hinata and Sakura fans who just naturally have bad takes but you also have sns fans who just like….. have embarrassingly bad takes.

I remember seeing a tiktok video about sns and it was an okay “analysis” it was just discussing like very base level things Sasuke’s character. but then they just go on to say that’s why he’s a top. Because “he needs to be in control. He likes having control. His abandonment issues lead him to needing to dominate someone to help him feel like he finally has agency in his life. Naruto being that someone is natural because of his fem / wife coding throughout the series. It’s been stated subliminally numerous times that naruto is the submissive in their relationship, he needs to be controlled unlike sasuke because he’s so rowdy and chaotic.” And like………. That’s an interesting take.

And the fact it got like around 2000 likes just kinda made me realize that sns tiktok fandom does not really understand sns at all and have likely not actually consumed the media and just got their information from other tiktok people or YouTube.

not the top bottom discourse crap…

I agree with u actually, the most nuanced and comprehensive takes I’ve seen about naruto have been on tumblr, including Japanese stuff as well that non speakers wouldn’t know about. Doesn’t help the viz official translation censors and changes stuff either. Granted there are bad takes on tumblr as well but u won’t find well written canon only essays about sns on a TikTok slideshow (at least from what I’ve seen.) personally I feel that tumblr is the easiest to use, I don’t like the character limit on Twitter and am pretty sure Reddit mods can do whatever they want. I’ve found some okay analysis on YouTube about naruto and sasuke and their bond, but I feel like they’re surface level, or could go deeper in some places and then don’t, and even if they do get it right for the most part the fact of the matter is sns’ bond is also romantic, not touching on that leaves things unfinished imo. Some naysayers in the comments section always seem to want to clarify that their bond is platonic or ‘sns are just bros’ - which, if people addressed one of sns’ biggest running plot threads that happens every single time they meet up in person (and not clones) from vote1 to the end (what are we?) - they’d perhaps realise something and sing a different tune. but yet no one does (at least from what I’ve seen?) or take moments singularly which I think is a shame since they’re very obviously connected and they’re very important. I guess it speaks volumes that they don’t and leave that untouched. I’d really love to watch a sns analysis video so it can reach a wider audience that covers their entire bond, their mutual understanding and pure love and empathy AND how it’s also romantic, the tropes, the literary devices, etc used to achieve this. I know some people complain that romantic bonds are glamorised in media and that they’re seen as somehow ‘more’ than platonic bonds, as a means to dissuade people from shipping sns romantically, but like sorry. sns are romantic and that’s how kishimoto wrote them and I can see it and others can see it and even if people can’t see it clearly they can at least feel it which is why sns are gay comments are everywhere lol.

[justice4sasuke]

Character Roundups Round 13: The Konoha Council

AKA the last one! (I think) AKA The People Who Did A Genocide.

Man, Kishimoto really is the master of adding in plot points that make previously "good" characters look REAL bad (probably without realizing it). Personally considering his importance to the main character I think he fucked up with Jiraiya most but Hiruzen is a close second. How are you going to go from the kind, fatherly leader of the village to a guy who doesn't have enough backbone/care enough to not let an entire clan in his village get murdered?

As for those other three I think it's funny how they are all set up as "not great". I mean Tsunade is completely sick of all of them. We are supposed to be mad at the two non-character elders for not letting Naruto do whatever. Danzo literally prevented Naruto from getting back to the village during the Pain fight sooner (not that I care but the narrative does), he's acting shady the entire time he is interim hokage, he's an asshole. BUT THEN when it comes to the Uchiha massacre suddenly we couldn't possibly make them look evil for that. Perish the thought! Kakashi is looking those two elders right in the face after he has been told the story by Obito (which he might not believe, but at least was like need to confirm) and the narrative does nothing with it. I think you can barely see them. And this wasn't in the original manga, but someone at some point was like "yeah, they are still around doing the same job" post-Naruto because they're there. No consequences or nothing. And Danzo, well, when Sasuke kills Danzo which was fully within Sasuke's right to do if he wanted, Danzo gets a sad flashback about how we wanted to protect the Leaf and was jealous of Hiruzen.

Here's the thing, I have no problem with giving some background to a villain obviously, but the way it's done here really makes me think it's not trying to expand on Danzo's character but make him sympathetic at the last second. If that wasn't supposed to be the case it would have been more effective to one, have someone mention that Danzo wanting the whole Uchiha clan dead was pretty fucked up and two, put Danzo's flashback somewhere else.

Finally, what do all these people have in common...the highest echelon of Konoha...oh yeah, they're all Tobirama's students. Because I probably need to say it again, I don't think this was Tobrirama's plan because if it was he would have had to be playing 5 dimensional chess to get things to happen how they did. It probably more so happened because Tobirama didn't trust the Uchiha clan, put them in a precarious position with the police force, and Kishimoto probably didn't think of it but if he was any good at writing it would be obvious Tobirama instilled the same idea into his students to an extent. And that's perfectly reasonable character/story-wise! These people could have just done something really horrible, by the time anyone who wasn't directly involved found out Hiruzen was dead, Danzo is literally the second worst (he threatened to murder a 7 year old to his 13 year old brother) so it should be at least a NEUTRAL thing that Sasuke killed him, and then those two other fuckers don't do anything anyway so I say jail. But rather than saying these four people fucked up, Kishimoto rather make Sasuke look evil because he can't make the institution of Konoha look bad and we need to set up some kind of Sasuke/Naruto parallel.

[maoam]

I wanna talk about something I have mentioned a couple times. Sasuke is a character that by various other characters and by Kishimoto is called by various different Japanese words that imply attractiveness or something preferable, such as beautiful, good-looking, sexy/hot, cool, even cute and pure. No other character has them called this many words as Sasuke. Kishi clearly wrote Sasuke as someone really desirable, to the point some people see traits of how some female characters are often written. It is due to homoeroticism and Kishi’s own bias towards Sasuke.

Let’s first look at volume 38 which I have always found interesting. It is the volume where Sasuke finally properly comes back to the story and starts to move the plot forward. First we have the cover that people have said looks romantic, like a pair of star-crossed lovers, in which Sasuke is on the front with his shirt open. But that is not all. In the same volume in a matter of few pages we see Sasuke in questionable positions with three different male characters. So Kishimoto just happened to draw Sasuke in these odd positions in a matter of a few days. What is the reason? The reason is simply to imply homoeroticism and Sasuke being desirable in a male-male interaction. It is not even subtle.

Of course, Kishi doesn’t forget to drop an implication of Naruto desiring Sasuke as well in the very same volume, despite the two not interacting.

Nor Sasuke’s blunt disinterest in women.

Another thing is Sasuke tends to lose his clothes in his fights, is it fanservice or is it self service from Kishimoto? When Kishi talked about designing Sasuke and Sai, he used “kakkoii” for Sasuke’s open shirt and Sai’s open stomach. So looks like kakkoii is his G-rated word for sexy.

Thank you Karin. It is funny how Kishi sometimes has to make a character say something out loud to make sure people got what he was doing.

With Orochimaru it’s most obvious. There’s obvious sexual subtext to Oro’s pursuit of Sasuke’s body.

Tobito isn’t much better. Why are the villains around Sasuke like this?

Or even Kabuto. Kabuto kept trolling Naruto for being obsessed with Sasuke and then he does this. Telling Sasuke he wants him to stay by his side (I didn’t bother to look for the panel but it’s when Sasuke and Itachi fight him) and then this... obvious innuendo with his... thing. Even Orochimaru has to make an ironic comment about it like seriously Kishi? You just couldn’t help yourself with that Oro panel?

Do you understand now what I mean? Kishi does this weird stuff with Sasuke all the time. Oh he’s so sensitive and beautiful and pure I must have him, he’s mine.

And here’s a bit of mythology Kishimoto used. During the confrontation between Orochimaru, Itachi and Sasuke Kishimoto used the legend of Kushinada-hime as an influence. Kushinada-hime was the youngest of the eight daughters of Ashinazuchi and Tenazuchi. Kushinada-hime was to be offered as a sacrifice to the eight-headed serpent Yamata-no-Orochi who had a sword inside of him, and who had already devoured seven beautiful maidens, but she was saved by Susanoo, who defeated Yamato-no-Orochi with the Totsuka Sword.

The Eight-headed Serpent is obviously Orochimaru in the manga. His eight branches technique and the sword inside of him are clear references to the mythology

The Totsuka Sword is wielded by Itachi’s Susanoo in the manga and it is what defeats Orochi. Just like in the mythology.

So who is the princess/goddess/maiden that needs to be saved from Yamata-no-Orochi? Well it is our Sasuke of course. Is it any wonder why people think Sasuke is heroine when Kishimoto writes him like this? He just wants to stress how desirable Sasuke is, but that at the end of the day, he’s Naruto’s...

(Note: I remember a manga Ranma½ also featured Yamata-no-Orochi, but since it was a comedy manga it was a perverted snake who only liked devouring pretty girls.)

[sneezemonster15]

Okay but like WHY would SNS think Kishimoto is homophobic? Some fans do and I wanna ask them Why???

What's wrong with you?

Writing the trials and tribulations of gay people in a conservative homophobic society, portraying a closeted homosexual person in a conservative heteronormative society (Naruto is, whose own homophobia so obviously stems from his closetedness, which is a very logical and realistic portrayal of homosexuality, like please watch other gay media for fuck's sake), and writing a careful, respectful, and freaking Shakespearan gay love story in a shounen fucking manga while consciously deviating from the highly problematic tropes that so many of his contemporaries use where they treat homosexuality as offensive or a joke, DOES NOT make Kishimoto homophobic.

It actually makes him empathetic to homosexuality. He actually understands homosexuality and the struggles of a gay person living in a traditional heteronormative society. He treats the subject with sensitivity and a deep sense of pathos. It couldn't be clearer that this man knows what he is writing about.

A hell lot of creators who create homosexual media, especially in mainstream media, end up cheaply fetishizing or exploiting homosexuality the same way heterosexual media has been treated, by writing insincere, common tropey cookie cutter bullshit because it sells. Because a majority of the audience doesn't care about or even begin to understand complex narrative or visual nuances. But if you have seen enough gay media, you can easily tell who is being sincere about storytelling and characters and who is just after making some easy dough.

Stories about homosexuality in mainstream cinema were very rare and scattered earlier. During the eighties and especially nineties, most creators who wrote homosexual characters and narratives used to make it offensive or to facilitate cheap comedy. We have all seen Friends, haven't we? The sitcom.

Enter Wong Kar Wai. When his film 'Happy Together' was released in 1997, so many fans in the gay community were immensely grateful to him. It was like a milestone in Asian gay media. Because finally gay community had a realistic, respectful and honest to God portrayal of a gay couple in cinema. There was no unnecessary exploitation of the subject, just a straightforward story about love. Between two people. Only in this case, they happened to be men. This was the kind of representation the Asian gay community at the time was looking for but didn't get it because the heteronormative film industries didn't cater to their interests.

My gay film maker friend was in his early twenties when he saw this film in a special screening in the city. And he was transported. And so overwhelmed. It was like a spiritual experience for him. Because he had never seen such a sincere portrayal of homosexuality and gay love in media ever. He still remembers everything in such detail, he couldn't help but cry and he wasn't the only one crying in that hall. He felt seen for the very first time in media. He could relate. And his resolve of making sincere and honest films got even stronger. He has won a lot of accolades and awards since.

That's the power of storytelling and meaningful representation.

And I can say the same thing about Kishi. He broke the mould. He wrote a realistic gay love story with a gay protagonist in love with a gay anti hero and made them kiss, never been done in the history of shounen before.

His hands were tied so he couldn't write it all that explicitly but seriously, he didn't need to. It actually ended up making this story even more nuanced and heartbreakingly beautiful.

So how does that make him homophobic? Do you even understand what homophobia means?

By your logic, Spielberg making a movie about Nazi atrocities makes him a Nazi? Or Spike Lee making films about the struggles of black people in America makes him racist? Wtf?? What's even your logic?

You admit Sasuke and Naruto, the two mainest characters, the hero and the anti hero, are gay and in love with each other and you ship them because their story is so heart touching and splendidly beautiful. But the person who wrote them that way with such immense effort in his Magnum opus is a homophobe?? Do you not see how contradictory that is?

Seriously, please think for ONE second before you say things. You are accusing an amazing writer of something grave, that he is the opposite of.

Yes, I have heard and read worse things in this fandom. But seriously, I don't want to expect something like this out of the SNS fandom. Use your head, it's not just for show.

[narhinafan]

What do you think of what this person said, also There is an interview that he distorted https://cakebake.tumblr.com/post/190996961185/i-still-do-not-understand-if-it-was-planned-from

The interviews are right, but what the person is saying doesn't properly take in consideration when they happend and the context. Like I explained previously the reason Kishimoto said he decided on NaruHina in the middle would have been cause he considered NaruSaku during the middle part of series, before finally deciding to stick to his original plan.

It is obvious that Kishimoto always intended for both NaruHina and SasuSaku from the early stages. NaruHina was obviously planned from the beginning, as where SasuSaku I say was planned from around the Forest of Death arc that was when the ship started truly getting some romance development. In part 1 there are clear NaruHina and SasuSaku moments that just make it obvious that Kishimoto was gunning for those ships.

For example one of the interviews is with the voice actors and they all said they already knew the couples endgame. Now what the writer doesn't take in account the time they were talking about and when the anime started. The manga was just about ending the Konoha Crush arc when the anime started. Also each voice actor is mostly speaks about their characters since Sasuke and Sakura are couple you can tell that the discussion focuses more on them since both voice actors are there as where Naruto's voice actor is on his own. Naruto's voice actors does confirm NaruHina was planned and that he got told about the ending during the first meeting, same with Sakura and Sasuke's confirmed SasuSaku as well.

Now what each of them says is true, but it is their subjective opinions and from what they remember plus they each talk mostly about the characters they play, hence why Sakura and Sasuke's voice actors don't talk about NaruHina cause Takeuchi Naruto's voice actor already confirmed the statement about NaruHina being planned since the anime started. Another thing to consider is if they were told that when they were together, for example Takeuchi could have been on about the first meeting she had with Kishimoto and not the team meeting.

All the interviews Kishimoto does not actually contradict himself as each interview has different context and expands on things. For example as I mentioned before the interview with the voice actors they are on about when the Naruto anime started which is in 2002 four years after the Naruto manga started. So the voice actors only know that NaruHina and SasuSaku were endgame when the anime started not when the manga started.

As where Kishimoto later confirms her planned NaruHina since the start of the manga as where he didn't have any real plans for Sakura when she was first introduce in the manga. This actually lines with how Kishimoto treats her in the manga at first you notice Sakura practically does nothing, it is only during the Forest of Death arc where she starts getting some spotlight and also when her relationship with Sasuke develops a bit and isn't as one sided as before. However in part 1 Sakura despite also being a member of team 7 still doesn't do much for the rest of part 1 and her most important scenes centre around Sasuke.

In fact all the interviews back up each other, the only one that is inconstant is the 2015 when he said he decided in the middle which I already explained.

As for the databooks, the first one isn't clear enough to properly read the kanji and while I compared it with the kanji for love and it doesn't resemble it I couldn't figure out what the kanji actually means since the image resolution isn't clear enough. However in databooks 1 and 2 you can make that 好む(Suki) which means like for Naruto and in the second databook Sakura also has 好むused for how she feels about Sasuke in the second databook. So I highly doubt the first databook says Sakura is in love with Sasuke consider it changes between the first and second databooks.

The third databook suffers from the same translation fault the anime had in that the English translated 好む as love not like. In Japanese it makes sense why Naruto didn't respond to Hinata's confession cause what she says can be taken as like and not love.

[sasukesun]

What do you think about people how say that you can't be a pro sasuke fan if you ship SNS o support Naruto (the character)? I think it's stupid why i can't support both characters o ship them together, they usually said Naruto never really care for Sasuke and only want control him. I like Naruto as a character he isn't perfect and he has flaws but I think that people how hate him don't considerer his past or traumas and only focus in his behavier without context.

huh i obviously think that’s a stupid take. seriously, i don’t know how some people can write essays and essays about the political structure in naruto and say shit like “naruto doesn’t care about sasuke and is a control manipulative freak” at the same time, like it’s pretty basic stuff. i think it’s pretty clear how naruto genuinely cares for sasuke, especially sasuke’s well being. he wouldn’t have a panic attack at the thought of sasuke being killed if he didn’t care about him, or get on his knees and beg to the raikage to spare sasuke’s life. at this point, obito hadn’t even told him about the uchiha massacre, as far as he knew sasuke had joined the organisation that wanted him dead without knowing the actual reasons and naruto was still trying to protect him. he knows sasuke’s plan on being alone will make him miserable, he also knows the pain of being lonely, his biggest problem with sasuke’s final plan on being hokage is sasuke being alone. he tells to sasuke’s face that he couldn’t bare to see him in pain, i really don’t know how people say naruto was trying to manipulate sasuke in this part, he just answered sasuke’s question. and by sasuke’s reaction, he heard what he wanted to hear. and yeah, naruto is flawed (and so is sasuke why people seem to pretend he isn’t), genuinely caring about someone doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll always do what’s best for them, even if at the moment you think it is, that doesn’t make your feelings less genuine. but honestly, we all know the naruto ending is shit and that kishimoto’s sloppiness has showed even before the war arc, neither naruto or sasuke have satisfying character arcs and to me it’s pretty clear that it was because kishimoto prioritised a particular plot conclusion over those arcs, well that plus what sp/sj wanted from the ending that would lead to b*ruto.

also, as you said, those people really tend to dismiss naruto’s trauma and take things out of context. it’s also funny cause like we, as readers (especially after finishing reading everything), know all of the truth, but characters don’t. some people really say sasuke was way better with orochimaru (a sexual predator and a scientist experimenting on humans), who would kill sasuke and get his body for power, than with team 7 because they know the whole story, they know sasuke becomes more powerful, they know sasuke kills orochimaru at the end, but naruto doesn’t, naruto knows some psycho wants to take his friend’s body. period.

and last but not least, why would it be contradictory to ship sns and be pro sasuke? sasuke loves naruto. naruto is actually special to sasuke, the person sasuke somehow always finds an exception to the rule. you don’t disrespect his character or disregards his feelings by shipping him with naruto, unlike with other characters sasuke has shown no interest in.

[colorisbyshe]

Sasunaru fanfics are the mf worst because literally the best one I read are the ones where either one of them or the both of them die

The absolute worst was one where naruto sacrificed himself to save sasuke and then sasuke went insane and forced kabuto to resurrect naruto (and the fic ended like that)

Then ANOTHER one ended with naruto dying for Sasuke because (if I remember correctly) orochimaru wanted to posses sasuke and naruto let orochimaru posses him instead so that sasuke could finally kill itachi, only by doing so naruto knew he would die (and he fucking did)

Another one that absolutely KILLED me was one where sasukes punishment for betraying konoha was erasing his memories, only by that time him and naruto were already in love so erasing those memories would mean erasing the memories of their love as well and the story is about Sasuke slowly forgetting naruto little by little and by the end he barely knows who he is and the fic ends with them going together in a mission (naruto keeps him at super distance because he’s in too much pain) and the fic ends with them being ambushed and Sasuke puts himself before naruto to protect him and he says “my body just moved on his own”

They didn’t die in this one but I probably cried more than with the ones where they did

Idk I get they’re the modern day Romeo and Juliet (just when it comes to the level of tragedy because obviously the love and the bond between sns is much deeper than those other two Italian idiots) but you would think fic writers would actually idk , write something more cheerful ? (Jk I appreciate them a lot thank you fic writers )

See, even when it'snot tagged, I can tell when shit is gonna ned with character death and I dodge that shit better than Kishimoto dodged the "good writing with commentary on imperialism" allegations that were built up with the land of waves arc

I don't do that. That said I'm mostly reading about Kakashi and Iruka because they have less baggage, more adult-cntric writing (most Sasunaru is like "let's focus on shippuuden" and let's not do that!), and then just has like lil snippets about Sasuke and Naruto.

If I trusted the fandom to hve more good content abtou Sasuke/Naruto, I would be reading it (though I WILL be reading the rcs y'all sent me. I just need to focus on finishing... actual books) but I don't.

Cause yeah, people do either lean into the angst thing toooo much for me OR they're just like "let's do crack fic" and crack fic has never been funny to me. If I wanted to watch Sasuke nad Naruto do absolutely stupid shit I would just watch filler.

I need to balance of "Yeah, they're traumatized and sad" with "But things can get better for them." I haven't put up with caring about naruto the series for 15+ years for anything other than a more sweet than bitter ending.

Like... I DO want both of htem dead. very much. In canon. Kishimoto please just ol yeller those sad lil fucks. Take them out back, pLEASE.

But if I'm gonna debase myself and read fanfiction... it's not for that.

But Narutos fandom sucks. In so many ways. I've never seen a group of people so bent on finding evrey single bad way to enjoy already bad content. But maybe it's just because I've had 15+ years to see it all whereas most fandoms get distracted by like... year 5.

[rogueninja]

The thing about sasusaku fans is they have a explanation for everything. Sasuke was gone for 10 years he doesn’t even recognize salad but it’s true love? How do the fandom have a excuse for that?

Tbh I dont seek out SS content so I cant really say why people ship it. I'm trying not to be too mean bc there are worse things to ship but like. The only reasons I can think of are people A) accept the canon ending at face value despite its complete disregard for the rest of the series and/or B) identify with Sakura and think Sasuke is hot (and are probably 13 years old). In both cases maybe a person is rooting for Sakura as the series goes and expecting Sasuke to turn around and change his mind about her and finally realize he returns her feelings in this sort of unhealthy schoolgirl fantasy. Obviously that is not what we get at all.... Sasuke only continues to completely disregard Sakura to the point of malicious intent until he finally apologizes to her because of Naruto. Sakura on the other hand is infatuated with the idea of Sasuke, a person she herself admits she does not truly understand at all. But since they eventually get married and have a kid, that means the ship "won" and the fantasy is fulfilled and people just take that at face value. Imo SS is literally an insult to both charaters and I like to think that if I had shipped it while watching the series I would be upset with the way it panned out lol. Like, at least have SOME natural buildup.

I can't pretend to know what's going on in Kishimoto's head considering he seems to write some of one of my all time favorite stories by accident but I personally just dont believe he himself supports SS. Because why else would he culminate the pairing with a dismissive forehead poke and an absentee father? Like I've learned not trust him to write Sakura coherently but I do think he has clear intentions for Sasuke as a character (pro-Konoha Sasuke aside....) and knows Sasuke would never be a good husband to Sakura. But I think people aren't used to the subtleties of a nonsensical pairing becoming canon, especially when it's The Thing they ship and the anime/manga as a whole is targeted toward 12 year old boys lol. On the other hand I could be completely wrong and Kishi really is That Bad at romance in which case does intention even matter at this point. The facts are there lol.

[char-lotteral]

Look I'm not one of those people who believe Kishimoto decided to have Hinata and Naruto end up in the middle part of Shippuden. I believe he decided in the very last arc but he wanted to sound smart so he said he decided earlier on. Otherwise, they obviously would have more scene together. In Shippuden, they have only three scenes together ; when Naruto came back, the pain attack and the neji death scene. That's it. In the original Naruto, they probably have less than ten canon scenes not including fillers.

So I'm sorry I'm one of those who wasn't convinced by The Last. They literally had a basic villain go after Hinata who was cringe btw (the villain). They gave Hinata op powers which she doesn't have in the novel 👀. Despite having op powers, they made her the damsel in distress. Very "The hero saves the princess" cliche. Again, to justify them being together. I mean Naruto can't differentiate his love for ramen and romantic love so how??? He was just being nice to Hinata just like he does to everyone. He stood up for her just like he does for everyone.

Don't get me started on the Sakura Sasuke relationship 🤣. Cringe. They never knew each other. The whole Sakura's love for Sasuke saved him doesn't make sense. They spent barely a year in their genin year before sasuke left. Sasuke tried to kill Naruto and Sakura multiple times. Then at the end of the war, Kishimoto tried to do the "oh they have such a deep understanding between each other" which comes off as cringey. He gets her pregnant then leaves for years. She's literally a single mom who's broke.

Every relationship in Naruto is so cringey and forced except shikatemari. Kishimoto should've focused on the main story and fixed his potholes and leave the ending open.

Naruto would not have been perfect but at least it would've been remembered for staying true to its vision but instead it's remembered for cringey relationships, dumbass villain (except pain and madara) and a story that lost its core which is a shame coz I used to love Naruto. I was inspired by its messages but now....

OKAY LOL WAIT I ACTUALLY HAVE THIS LONG ASS RANT PREPARED XD

BUT FIRST Ive read what you said and I lowkey agree :p

HOWEVER

I DRAW THE LINE AT TONERI SLANDER. BECAUSE WHY

TONERI?? CRINGE?? THIS SEXY MOTHERFUCKER??

LOOK AT HIS WHITE FLUFFY HAIR AND HIS CERULEAN BLUE ORBS STARING DEEPLY INTO YOUR SOUL

SAY SIKE RIGHT NOW?!#*@*#&@*

okay lol now for the juicy part click readmore and beware I shall be brutally honest so yea enjoy

I mean, Naruto in general is a mess, not just the ships if we're being realistic. Alot of plotholes, rushed endings, this and that, the w a r a r c, Kaguya, the way they rushed Boruto ehhh. Honestly, getting into Naruto is literally my biggest regret of 2020 :"DD

Im an NH shipper as you can tell by my hotmess of a blog but i fully respect your opinion and understand your point of view. I also know a bunch of nh stans who have their complaints with their development. I wish Kishi gave more attention to his female cast really, thats all I fucking ask. If he did that one single basic thing, then maybe the endgame relationships wouldnt have been an asspull and theyd be given propper screentime with their love interest, both Sakura and Hinata. The Last tbh i think the writers played it safe and stuck to the whole Naruto shounen vibe thingy, so im not surprised it was plotted that way. Typical cliché shounen movie.

But does that bother me? No! The Last was a mess, their development was shit, they definitely needed more screentime but hey at the end of the day theyre cute as fuck, we have that kiss scene, flirting scenes, a shit ton of official art, three kids, Seiki's gif :33 and a whole ass arc for their wedding all that for just a shounen anime so eh. Compensates for it i guess xD theyre not toxic, unhealthy or whatnot. Theyre wholesome, soft and vanilla as fuck and exactly what i need in my hectic life rn. No drama, just two kind souls who are adorable as heck and theyre dynamic means so much to me and I will love them until i shall leave this earth.

Anon, im not even gonna waste my time and defend their development because i think it sucked too xD but if you wanna know why i love them so so so soooo much, Id be more than willing to tell you :33

Sasuke and Sakura on the other hand eeeehhhh i can see why people like them. Sasuke's hot, he's your typical hot bad boy aad Sakura's hot and pretty too. Basic blue and pink trope. Aside from their canon interactions, fans have all the opportunity to play around with their dynamic but for me, its just sooo basic and so hetero and can easily appeal to any 16 yr old teenage girl, no wonder it has an active fanbase on twt and---- AM I MAKING ANY SENSE? AHDBAJJE LIKE ITS SO-- BASIC, your usual bad boy x pretty girl trope that you get to read in YA and coming of age novels. Not only that, but going back to canon, they have too many negative interactions for me to like them together :p The least Sakura can do is put down her own foot and yell at him for not contacting them for god knows how long. I also dont like how he always gets easily forgiven >=[[. I mean at least He's compensating as a dad good for him but ehhhh i still dont like him and Sakura together :v And im not falling for that "Sakura is the reason why Sasuke isnt lonely anymore" because thats NARUTO AHHH. Sasuke said that Multiple times. HE LIGHTS A FIRE INSIDE OF ME. HES MY SUN. MY ONE AND ONLY FRIEND. LIEK?? THATS NARUTOOO romantic or not, Naruto was the reason for his not so lonely existence anymore smh >=[[

Sasuke almost murdered her and Naruto and made their lives a living hell but hey its all good!! He's my best friend and Sakura loves him!! So set him freeee into the worldddd~~

Sasuke left his family without even simply contacting them but can easily contact Naruto through a hawk but hey thats fine! His and Sakura's feelings are connected afterall! Sasuke gave her a ring and said thank you! Who cares about leaving your family. She loves him and he loves her so yey!!! All is forgiven :D

DID I MENTION SASUKE ALMOST MUREDERED HIS OWN DAUGHTER AND HE WASNT CALLED OUT FOR THAT@*#&@??!?#,*@#,#

Sasuke gets too many life points this isnt fair >=[[ But tbh he's nerfed so bad in Boruto manga and anime power wise. Like in that time travel arc and the manga. The rinnegan kunai thing was still so funny to me even if it was Borushiki. I just idk its so funny to me lmaoo

OKAY WHAT ELSE. I dont even know any more. Im tired of complaining about Naruto and just when Ive finally gone a little bit away from Naruto, Hinata fucking pulls me in again 😩 she has me on chokehold pls send help. Watch castlevania!!! and one piece!!!! ten times better than this anime about a loud blonde boi who wants to be president. Trust me

overall, i dont fully agree but i lowkey agree i guess. I do respect your opinion tho :))

EXCEPT WHEN YOU CALLED TONERI CRINGE. HOW DARE YOU CALL THAT SEXY MF CRINGEY---

[joan-frias]

Christmas Wish - Naruto Edition

Since Christmas is about to happen, maybe Santa can grant some of these wishes about Naruto Universe. Or at least, Masashi Kishimoto and his team can.

1. KonoHana to finally happen.

I mean, it’s not about Konohamaru wanting to be like Naruto whom he adores so much. I guess it’s because during the previous generation Konohamaru and Hanabi were the only two of their generation to be given some highlights or at least big exposure. Or maybe not, but they were the only two who were given that importance. I guess it’s not that bad that they end up together. And besides, I wanna see these two big clans marry each other - the Sarutobi and Hyūga.

2. An Uchiha boy

I guess in order to restore the clan, Sasuke need to have another child, right? Just saying. Sarada can’t do that alone, you know. So Sasuke and Sakura needs to double time making babies. And I hope it will be a boy. With pink hair and green eyes, ‘cause Sarada seems like a female version of Sasuke.

Yes, Sasuke. You need to go home more often now and make more Uchiha babies. And please make it a boy. I know you can’t control that, but we need the Uchiha surname alive, you know. Because we want Sarada to get marry someday and the thing about these kunoichi is they also adopt their husband’s surname.

Having said that, my third wish is:

3. Make BoruSara happen... in the future, that is.

I hope Kishimoto and his team will not make another Naruto-ish pairing for the new gen. I was actually thinking about that when Sumire came into the picture. Like, come on! Blond shinobi and a purple (violet) haired kunoichi. I know Master Kishi said he’s not good in making love stories, but please, not this one.

And beside, there have been a lot of hint that BoruSara could really happen.

You know that I mean.

4. A girl child for Shikamaru and Temari

Remeber this scene?

He said he wanted to become an average shinobi; marry an average girl whose neither beautiful nor ugly; have two kids, a boy and a girl. That’s not exactly what he said, but that’s the gist somehow.

It didn’t happen that way, obviously. He didn’t become an average shinobi: he is the Hokage’s right hand man. His wife is anything but average: she’s a princess and she’s pretty as well. He’s got a kid though, a son. But the daughter? I know we don’t really get what we wish sometimes, but can we at least give Shikamaru a daughter?

5. Retsuden Series Adaptation

Honestly, I haven’t read all the light novels on the Retsuden series, except for the Sasuke Retsuden. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who wants these novels to be adapted, especially the Sasuke Retsuden because, well, we just could not get enough of the SasuSaku moments!

See? You like more of that, don’t you?

***

I know a lot of fans wants some other things from the Naruto team. I hope the creators listen to the fans and grant their wishes someday. Who knows? Maybe in the next arc, we might get what we have always wanted on this anime.

Happy holidays everyone! I hope you all enjoy Christmas.

[sueske]

Do you ever think about the story we could have gotten had kishi not been censored? 😩 he couldn't even let them hold hands and found a way to work around it. Tbh I think the way kishi was able to write naruto as a gay love story with all his limitations is incredibly clever. But it seems like most people think he's an idiot and wrote naruto the way he did by accident. Do they not realise how braindead he would have to be to do all that by accident? Why do they think naruto and sasuke are so miserable in their marriages and avoid their families at all cost? Sasuke just stays away from the village. Naruto will rather count headbands and do paperwork than go home. He'll sleep on the couch, in his home office (that has a bed too... isnt that odd), at his dinner table. He won't even attend his daughter's birthday even after shikamaru tells him to go home. Also if they think that kishi didn't deliberately write naruto as a gay boy struggling with internalized homophobia then do they think kishi wrote naruto to be the only character in his series who's kind of openly homophobic? No one else reacts the way he does to things that might be seen as gay (obviously naruto learned this behaviour because of his homophobic environment, but kishi only emphasises naruto's reactions to gay things). It's so obvious naruto is struggling with his sexuality, how do you just ignore all that and say it must be an accident

But it seems like most people think he's an idiot and wrote naruto the way he did by accident.

People actually think like this this? How odd. Kishimoto lived and breathed Naruto for 15 years. He spent countless hours every day on this story, working with a team, going back and forth about its contents. Every piece of dialogue, every panel, had meaning to it. The manga is called Naruto, but Kishimoto himself said that whenever he writes about Naruto, Sasuke is always at the back of his mind. They are two halves of the same coin, yin and yang, sun and moon, etc. None of these things were 'accidental' - they were all deliberate, done to highlight the themes of the story. Kishimoto said quite early on that he already envisioned how Naruto would end - the panels, the dialogue, etc, and for him it was all about working towards that end goal (Naruto and Sasuke's reconciliation) in a believable manner. So how could this be an accident, if the creator himself said that and actively worked towards it for years?

Was it an accident to have Naruto and Sasuke be the only canon kiss? Was it an accident to have Sasuke protect Naruto at the expense of his own dreams? Was it an accident to have Naruto get excited when Sasuke finally acknowledged him? Was it an accident to have Sasuke’s first thought be ‘protect Naruto’ and not ‘revenge’ when Itachi came back to the Hidden Leaf? Was it an accident for Orochimaru to comment and say that Naruto was changing Sasuke’s heart? Was VOTE1 an accident? Was it an accident for Naruto to spend so much time training to bring Sasuke back? To wish upon a star for him? To have him panic at the thought of him dying? Kishimoto had to fight his editors to include the reverse harem jutsu, which Naruto claimed to have practiced more than the rasengan. Wow, that was an accident, huh? Was it an accident that only Sasuke canonically met both of Naruto's parents? When Naruto told his father, ‘about finding someone like mom... anyways!’ - was that an accident? Was VOTE2 an accident?

How about Sasuke asking Naruto to define 'friendship'? Who even does that? Why did Kishimoto feel the need to have Sasuke ask that. What about when Kishimoto made Sasuke call Naruto his 'one and only....' in one panel, and then add 'friend' in another panel altogether? Was it an accident to have Sasuke say that in order to be truly alone in the world, he had to kill Naruto, and only Naruto? (His one and only...)

How come Naruto and Sasuke have said so many beautiful and heartfelt things to each other? List of quotes here.

How come, during some conversations between SNS, they cut each other off right before it seems like they’ll say something important? There are always things left unsaid between them. I wonder what they could be...

Wow, Kishimoto seems to have a lot of SNS 'accidents'... how bizarre. There are obviously more but if I include them all I would be copy+pasting the whole manga :))

But was it an accident for Sasuke to reject Sakura's confessions all the time? For him to trial to kill her? For her to try to kill him? At the end, to give her the 'brotherly forehead tap'? Was it an accident to display Sakura’s ‘feelings’ for Sasuke as entirely one-sided and selfish?

Was it an accident for Naruto to call Hinata weird, to have him not acknowledge her confession during the Pain arc? For him to hold her hand during the war arc in an extremely ooc moment?

No. these were not accident. They were deliberate. Kishimoto spent time developing the dialogue, drawing out the panels, saying the same thing over and over and over again because he was very clear about the messages that he wanted to convey to the readers.

As for non-canon material (The Last, the light novels) - I don’t consider these canon at all, but many people cite these to ‘explain’ the relationships between ss and nh. But the premise of both of these things are so absurd, contradicts canon material, and is just so ooc... there’s a reason Kishimoto had nothing to do with writing them. And this too, was also no accident.

Why do they think naruto and sasuke are so miserable in their marriages and avoid their families at all cost? 

What was an accident, was chapter 700. As you mentioned, both Naruto and Sasuke are unhappy and do everything they can to avoid their families but not each other. They’re deeply unsatisfied. Naruto wanted to become Hokage, yet he missed the inauguration because of his kids. Sasuke wanted to revolutionize the shinobi system, yet nothing seems to have changed. 

A sad ending to a beautiful manga.

Also if they think that kishi didn't deliberately write naruto as a gay boy struggling with internalized homophobia

I have spoken about SNS’s sexuality here and here.

As for Sasuke, he deliberately rejected advances from all women (Sakura, Karin, etc.). Kishimoto drew the scene with naked Sai and Sasuke. When Sasuke went to recruit Suigetsu, he stood naked behind Sasuke. When Sasuke reunited with Naruto he put his hand on his shoulder, almost hugging him. What is this imagery supposed to tell us? 

Do you ever think about the story we could have gotten had kishi not been censored? he couldn't even let them hold hands and found a way to work around it. 

I don’t think too much would have changed in the main story, but the ending would’ve been completely different. I think he would have stopped at chapter 699 - no confirmation of couples, no Boruto, an open-ending. The whole manga is about ‘hope’ - so that’s what the readers would have had at the end of chapter 699 - hope that Naruto and Sasuke could change the world, like they wanted to. 

About the hand thing - yup, he found a way around it five times, I made a post about this here.

[voglioungufoartsblog]

A brief explanation on why ObiNaru became OTP, just the key points:

I could give a lecture on why and sooner or later I'll do it with lots of screenshots of the manga, but it's not the right time.

First of all I beg to disagree with those who consider them too equal: they weren't even when they were (Naruto to capture attention was foolish, Obito helped old ladies or anyone in need) and then it is clear that they take two opposite paths, both are what the other could have been if their heart had been different, Naruto continues to get strong and keep making his way even in a horrible way to change it, Obito turns his back on this world to bring him to almost destruction. Naruto clings to his identity, Obito abandons him. And these are just some of the many examples I can give, which lead to one of my favorite tropes: inverted mirror relationships.

We also come to another of my favorite tropes: enemies to lovers. Obviously at the beginning they are two enemies who hate each other, even Naruto the Saint clearly hates him to death, especially when he wears the mask, he is really keen on wanting to break that mask; on the other hand Obito is exasperated by Naruto who ruined all his plans, just blew his manipulation on Nagato in his face and how dare he?

It must also be said that Obito is the one who becomes more aware, who realizes the affinities they have and for this reason he tries to "convince him" to go to his side in every way (the part in which he holds out his hand after the death of Neji) and even Kakashi realizes it, Obito is looking for something inside Naruto, when he could just fight and maybe solve the situation faster he stops to "test" Naruto. Instead Naruto ... my god, the part when they extract the chakra from Juubito and, as good expert ninja, they can read themselves in their hearts 😭 Naruto cries on feeling Obito's emotions, so much so that Kurama must warn him not to get involved , but imagine if Naruto listens to him and suddenly puts aside all hatred to accept Obito and tries to convince him to go back to their side (Naruto holding out his hand !!!!) I could spend hours on that part, like the fact that Naruto's determination reminds Obito of the love of his life asdfghjk but the fact is that he eventually surrenders to Naruto and abandons a 17-year plan to totally rely on him, literally Naruto becomes the light that Rin was before AND THEN WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT ASDFGHJKL

Here we come to a third trope: "Allow me to die (for you)"

I live by angst, you know, and seeing in those relationships where one is literally willing to give his life away for the other destroys me with feels. In this case Obito has abandoned everything he believed in for Naruto and it is obvious that he is willing to do anything to preserve that light and that's what he obviously does, sacrificing himself in place of Naruto AND Kakashi (because let's not forget the feelings of guilt, that poor fellow is convinced he can redeem himself only by dying to save a comrade, as it should have been from the beginning) and then we have that heartbreaking scene that leads us to

Fourth trope: "I feel the hole in my heart starting to fill".

The part where Obito yells at Kakashi that he doesn't have a heart anymore became a meme, so I don't even have to remember it. Obito, I'll be repetitive, he subscribed everything from his identity to his heart. In 17 years NOTHING has been able to change this, Naruto has succeeded in one night. Naruto felt the need so much to reach Obito, the real Obito, once their chakras were discounted that he made Naruto "return" a heart, all his dreams, wishes, who he was ... let's think for a moment what a shock of sudden feelings it must have been? And this is another trope that I love in romantic stories: a character who is dead inside who starts loving again thanks to another who managed to reach him in the part that he kept most hidden aaaaaaa

And on this I want to make a small parenthesis that is not a trope: "Thank you".

Just before he died Obito thanks Naruto, and honestly if the SasuSaku were canonized because a thirteen year old Sasuke thanked a thirteen year old Sakura just before knocking her out I don't understand why ObiNaru no I WANT TO TALK TO YOUR MANAGER.

In any case.

Some time ago I cried when I read that the Japanese are shy enough and reserved that they can't say "I love you" to their other half, so they use other tricks to make it understandable. One of the most significant is precisely to thank the other, because you are thanked for having them in your life, for the love he makes you feel, for everything they do for him and for the joy they share, etc. etc. And I am convinced that Obito meant this meaning. Otherwise I can't explain the shocks Naruto and Kakashi feel as soon as he says it. And why else be so surprised? I mean, it's not strange, he just sacrificed his life for Naruto's, obviously he must feel attached to him and in debt for things. So why show the surprise, why does Kishimoto want to show it was an unexpected sentence?

You obviously know the answer.

Finally, the fifth trope: being destined to meet.

I love when the path of two characters is "destined" to meet, when there is the inevitable, their destinies end up crossing without necessarily wanting it. And I'm not meaning that in the sense that like Kyuubi's Jinchuuriki, Obito would obviously have been chasing Naruto. No, I'm talking about Minato. When Minato seals the fox inside Naruto he knows nothing of the masked man, who he is, what his plans are and what he will do in the future. But he knows that the only one who can stop him is his son, Naruto, and he seals the fox in him to give him the tools to counter him. Minato destines Naruto to be the person who can stop Obito. Because his father had this feeling, he knew it and had no doubts that only Naruto could do it.

I was joking, I'm not done with the tropes, there is another one: I see in you the lover of my past.

And I'm not just talking about Naruto reminding Obito of Rin, but about when Obito was playing Madara. Now, I have this idea that for better or worse now Madara's will is ingrained in Obito as a part of him, even when he abandons the plan. He rejects being Madara, but inevitably a part remains, it is now in his character. But. When he is still Madara and meets Naruto curious to see the guy who convinced Nagato to betray him, he immediately recognizes Hashirama's will in him and we know that Madara and Hashirama had a not very straight relationship ... so ...

In conclusion: I ship them with the power of hyperuranium

Thanks for coming to my ted talks

[sneezemonster15]

Hii, I love your analysis on SNS. I just wanted to know that what do you think sasuke meant in the last scene when Naruto was returning his head band, when he was talking about praying??? Like the whole dialogue??? Some people are saying he is considering naruto's love for him as a prayer or he was talking about conviction of Shinobi??? I am really confused 😃

Hi. I would have answered this sooner, but it's difficult when workload gets heavy. In any case, nothing can keep me away for very long from Naruto so here I am.

You touched a sensitive nerve there. Sasuke describing his love for Naruto as a prayer?

A lot of SNS fans find it difficult to describe Naruto and Sasuke's relationship. I do too. I mean yeah, it's romantic love, sure. But more than the conventional meaning of it. It is hella devotional and all consuming, it is like a religion. Their love transcends the conventional understanding of love. This panel is a good example of it. Among many in SNS.

There have been whole ass movements in literature that were founded on the element of devotion, the parallels between religion and romantic love have been used as an effective tool to portray passionate and deep emotions in many Asian articles of literature and cinema. Bhakti movement is a good example of it. Rumi is another. Try this piece of poetry by Rumi for size.

"This love is not a short-lived fancy. It is the daily prayer, the year-after-year fast. I live it, like an act of worship, till the end of my life."

Sound familiar? It's this element of deeply felt devotion in this 'feeling' they both talk of, that sets them apart from lesser beings like the rest of us.

I wondered why Kishimoto made Sasuke call it prayer. It's an interesting choice of word, and given it's a significantly conclusive panel, you know Kishi did it for a reason.

A prayer is something you do even when you have no evidence or proof it will work.

Like a religion. That's how Sasuke sees his feelings for Naruto. That all this love that he carries for him is like a prayer, that Sasuke will keep loving Naruto no matter what happens. It's bottomless, beyond the limit of mere definitions.

Sasuke loves him.

And Naruto loves him too. Beyond reason. Also like a religion, like an unshakeable faith.

Even though he has good reasons to protect and support Sasuke, I think there are very few things that he wouldn't forgive when it comes to Sasuke. And he wouldn't forgive anyone who hurts Sasuke.

When Naruto admits that every time he saw Sasuke carrying all his burden, he felt pain and wanted to share it, Sasuke realizes that Naruto feels the same way he feels for Naruto. But where Sasuke is aware of his feelings for Naruto, Naruto hasn't completely understood them yet.

But it's enough for Sasuke to understand. This admission from Naruto is the trigger that leads Sasuke to finally admit his own feelings towards Naruto.

It's curious to see how Kishimoto still doesn't define these 'feelings'. But he uses this word in text frequently. I mean sure, Kishimoto obviously cannot say it outright. But like everything else in SNS, he finds a way to say something significant without using the exact words. But he also mindfully provides more than enough subtext to justify it.

I have written more specifically about it here,

Sasuke finally understands the nature of Naruto's feelings towards him. Kishimoto deliberately skirts away from explicitly explaining this 'feeling', if they were brotherly, there would have been no reason to do it. It doesn't matter, we get it. And Sasuke gets it.

This 'feeling' is so all encompassing, that Sasuke thinks of it as the guiding light to redemption.

His love for Naruto is bigger than the deep turmoil and bitterness inside him. Naruto never left his side, not once. So Sasuke decides to take Naruto's hand (doesn't the visual imagery suggest it?), and join him in his new goal. Ideologically, they have different theories about war and revolution, village and Hokage, which are central to the ethical tussle in the narrative. It's not like Sasuke decides one theory is better than the other. No. His change of heart is not a capitulation. It's a choice. Made by Sasuke. For love. Because nothing is bigger than his love for Naruto. Which he now realises.

The sense I got from this panel was that even though Sasuke loves Naruto, he is aware of all the roadblocks in the way of their union, namely, the expectations of people. Being the most powerful shinobis in the entire Ninja world, they now carry the responsibility of rebuilding the world after a devastating war. But Sasuke decides to keep faith regardless because that's how faith works. He decides to join Naruto in his goal of uniting all the shinobis.

Conviction of shinobi never meant much for Sasuke. In contrast with Naruto. Kishi waxed eloquent about being an ideal shinobi when it came to Naruto but with Sasuke, it was always about avenging his family, then bringing a revolution, righting a few wrongs. And the path he took for it was obviously different from what a typical ideal shinobi would take. It's basically the central conflict discussed in chapter 696.

Since there isn't any subtext for it, I won't say it is because Sasuke considers a shinobi's conviction all important in Naruto Manga.

He is still expecting to finally settle things between them. This is all very deliberately subtle wording, and may seem ambiguous or confusing. But with subtext, all this text makes perfect sense. It's really about them as individuals and their bond, not about some amorphous theory about being a shinobi. The first few panels of chapter 699 indicate that Naruto and Sasuke's love for each other is bigger than their love for everything else, including villages and shinobi system and all the politics inside it.

Which finally brings me to my last panel.

This stupid panel. It just didn't feel such a lengthy, eloquent and deeply emotional monologue would have led to something this dry and incongruent. Anti climactic af. It really feels like it should have said something more emotionally conclusive. But well, it's a show about ninjas at the end of the day.

Still, Kishi is a cruel mistress.

[asotin]

Where do you think sasuke's character went wrong? I think the big turning point was seeing itachi at that inn? What do you think could've made sasuke a better character?

hmmmm i agree with your timeframe, yeah. i think the three biggest problems with his character come to light around then

1) he has no support

a competent adult/responsible teacher a la kurenai would have seen sasuke going off the rails and intervened as soon as sasuke got the curse mark. kakashi doesn’t bc he’s a shitty teacher (a deeply traumatized man, absolutely, but he’s also an adult and trauma doesn’t excuse neglect)

tbqh sasuke isn’t really a part of team 7. naruto cares about him because naruto has a fear of being on his own (not his fault- he’s a traumatized 12 y/o), and sakura isn’t allowed to be a human with thoughts (not her fault- she’s a girl in a misogynist’s story). nobody gives any real weight to sasuke’s obviously genuine desire to kill itachi. 

2) his story isn’t his

we don’t really see sasuke’s thoughts. there are hints, but in a story with like 1 ounce of nuance, that doesn’t work. his attachment to naruto isn’t shown in a meaningful way. he doesn’t reflect on things other than itachi. yes, he should be fixated on itachi, but losing his family is traumatic because sasuke was attached to them. yet he doesn’t have any flashbacks to happy memories. he doesn’t draw any strength from things he loves. that doesn’t work when he’s supposed to be from a clan whose power comes from their dangerous type of love

he doesn’t move his story. other people move the plot and he deals with what comes at him until he does something inexplicable

3) nobody respects him

this is tied to the earlier points, but when does anyone listen to sasuke and respond in a way that’s helpful? orochimaru comes closest. what sasuke wants is to kill itachi, and orochimaru promises to help him. nobody in konoha does that

yet one of the recurring themes in naruto that kishimoto definitely didn’t mean to include is adults not taking responsibility for or listening to children. itachi is the only person who apologizes to sasuke, and he’s a traumatized kid, too

honestly i think the lack of respect he’s given bleeds into the way he treats other characters, especially karin and sakura, but the narrative won’t acknowledge that because doing so would require acknowledging that konoha isn’t perfect

a possible fix

i think he’d either need to find agency for himself or be the traumatized, confused kid who can’t take control. as it is, he goes back and forth between the two, which doesn’t work in this story

if he finds agency, he should do something like disappear with taka and only join the war because it’s endangering the family he finally has and he's terrified and angry about that

if he can’t take control of his life, then the war needs to come to him. again, he should still be with taka, but rather than hearing about madara and his amazing plan to fuck shit up, he’d need to run into a fleet of white zetsus or something and nearly lose someone

he never should have had that showdown with naruto. he should have been in control enough to know he doesn’t want to be in charge of the world or too fucked up even to consider it. regardless, he should have left with taka again and accidentally adopted some orphans

[evartandadam]

I want to write a thing about Sasuke’s development throughout Naruto- and where Kishimoto failed his character. (I have been asked about my opinions on Sasusaku, but before I can remotely get to that, I need to establish what I think of Sasuke as a character by himself. He is a very interesting character, and he deserves his own rant.) 

There are two important points in Sasuke’s life, and both of these points establish the main theme Kishi wanted Sasuke’s character to feature.

The first point is when Sasuke leaves to train under Orochimaru, and the second is when he is approached, and changed by Madara/Obito. 

Point 1: Taking the Path of an Avenger. (Main Theme)

In Naruto:

Sasuke’s main theme throughout the series is slowly succumbing to the darkness for power. 

He leaves his village and friends behind. Does this mean he doesn’t care about them? Of course not. He cares. But the point is that he chooses his revenge over his potentially fulfilling life with his friends. He would have been much happier if he could have just let his revenge go (and he knows this), but he didn’t. This is the point Kishimoto wants to drive home about Sasuke throughout Shippuden. Sasuke chose revenge over love (and forgiveness).

And who can blame Sasuke? His brother, after murdering their entire clan, DARED Sasuke to kill him. Sasuke, as a 7 year old, was faced with a responsibility to take care of family business, something no child should have to wrestle with. But it happened. And growing up, he feels it is his job to kill his brother. He listened to Itachi, was molded by Itachi. A traumatic external force in his life effected him greatly. Killing Itachi is now his DUTY.

The problem is that Sasuke is now only 13, and still developing mentally and emotionally, so he isn’t necessarily going to make the best decision about fulfilling this duty. 

He knowingly goes to a terrorist S-rank criminal who wants to use him as a vessel, instead of staying at the village with Kakashi, whose power almost rivals said criminal. 

Sasuke doesn’t know really anything about his own village, obviously.

He doesn’t know anything about Kakashi or his abilities. How strong and famous this man really is for being a ruthless killing machine by the age of 13, like Itachi!

Kakashi would have been a great person to learn from. That’s why Kakashi wanted to teach him.

But Sasuke assumes that because Kakashi is a “good guy”, he is weaker than Orochimaru. And this is his mistake. 

Because his brother is “evil,” and very powerful, that must mean that evil people are better ninja, right?

Sasuke acts on what he does not know. And he does this all the time!

Ok so he’s 13 and kind of lacks basic foresight and judgement. So he goes to Orochimaru. And we skip forward 2 and 1/2 years. 

In Naruto Shippuden:

Sasuke is much stronger.

He has held onto his core beliefs. (he refuses to kill innocent people for personal gain.)

Sasuke at this point is super cool, cause he’s edgy, but not a terrible person. Everyone loves Sasuke at this point. He’s got a cool top that shows off those pecs he’s been working so hard on. And he gives less of a crap than ever before.

He is mysterious, because the author purposefully doesn’t let the audience see his thought process or emotions. But we know enough.

But then what happens? He kills Itachi, as he planned all along. What he doesn’t count on is that Itachi isn’t the evil entity he had pictured in his little kid brain. And someone brings this to his attention. Makes sure he knows.

And this brings us to the second point.

Point 2: Manipulation from External Forces (Extension of Main Theme)

Before we get back to the Naruto timeline, let’s go over what makes Sasuke fall for this external manipulation:

"Sasuke is basically a very pure person who doesn't think about whether what he does is good or bad. He just does what he wants to do, which causes trouble for others" - Masashi Kishimoto

Itachi describes Sasuke this way:

And I love this, because it does describe him perfectly. I think this statement stuck out to many readers. 

What Itachi means is that Sasuke: 

lacks the ability to look ahead and judge things clearly. 

He is easily influenced- gullible, even. 

And even though he managed to cling to some moral standard up until Itachi’s death- not killing innocent people- everything else is easily replaced on a whim.

By focusing solely on killing Itachi, Sasuke left himself wide open to attack. Not physical attack. Something even more dangerous: emotional manipulation. He neglected every aspect of himself other than the physical- and the desire for revenge. What I’m saying is that Sasuke is extremely emotionally stunted. And people recognize this, and use this to their advantage. Anyone can come up to him and plead to his cause, and he will fall for it, against any better judgement he may have. If he were a character in a video game, he essentially maxed out his stats in one area, and left every other area under-developed and weak.

His ideals always outweigh his reality.

So, how does this aspect of his character get him in trouble? Well, let’s discuss a very big shift in Sasuke’s character.

Madara’s influence:

Back to the Naruto timeline:

The truth about Itachi totally shakes Sasuke’s world. And “Madara” is totally loving this. He’s going to use this to his advantage.

So. Sasuke feels that he has a new duty. He must now somehow avenge his brother. And this means he should kill the Kage- wait, what?

Oh right. Madara is talking into his ear.

“Itachi literally lived and died for this, so obviously he wouldn’t want what I’m suggesting, but you should totally do the dirty work for me and destroy everything Itachi believed in. That way, you can avenge him. I’m totally like, empathizing with you right now. I’m definitely not just saying this to get you to do what benefits me.”

Ok, so of course, Sasuke blindly listens. 

And this is the second part to the main theme that Kishimoto explores with Sasuke’s character. What happens when a person, devoid of anything in the world besides revenge, falls into a false sense of justice? What happens after that quest for vengeance is fulfilled?

And at this point in the show, we see a new Sasuke. This Sasuke is very different from before. Why? 

Sasuke is throwing his past moral compass out the window. 

He’s going to kill people he doesn’t even know are guilty of anything. (Danzo definitely saw it coming, but Tsunade? What has she done to Sasuke? She is a great Hokage! She has nothing to do with Itachi. Neither does Gaara, or the rest of the current Kage.)

But Sasuke doesn’t care about this! Madara convinced him that they are evil, because of their position. 

The Kage are automatically evil, because they represent authority. And it’s important to recognize that Sasuke doesn’t care about past authority or current authority- it is not his authority, so therefore, it is bad. It needs to be purged.

Sasuke is putting his problems on unrelated people. 

And this is when Sasuke really falls into some dark stuff. He is actually becoming more of a villain.

The Final War:

By the time we see him in the war, he is ranting about “revolution.” 

Sasuke is very deluded. And it’s due to outside influence. He is young and brash, and his world is very small. So so very small. All he knew up until this point was revenge and his brother. He doesn’t know how to live a normal life, or how to let things go. It’s like he was asleep until this point, and he finally realized that there’s a bigger world out there, and he needs to do something about it!

Sasuke is rather pitiful. But very zealous and dangerous. And I think people in the fandom downplay this too much. People want to like Sasuke- resonate with him. Up until recently, everyone is nodding their heads like “we feel you Sasuke, this sucks.” But people need to recognize when pity needs to stop.

Sasuke’s best trait is hyper-focusing on his goal. And this is also the most dangerous thing about him. He is easy to manipulate, as I have established earlier. And he is on the far end of fanaticism. He isn’t thinking about individuals anymore. He is only thinking about the collective... kind of like... the Akatsuki?

After all, didn’t the Akatsuki want to create world peace by killing a bunch of innocent people and enforcing lack of conflict through silence?

And we all agree that the Akatsuki are totally missing the mark, correct? 

After all, is it really for the greater good? Sacrificing innocent people for one’s own idea of peace? Kind of narcissistic to assume one knows best.

Sasuke is talking about doing WHATEVER IT TAKES to “change the world” to make it “better”. Whatever his version of “better” is. And this is totally wrong! How is becoming what you hate most supposed to prove that your version of peace is correct?

Sasuke is getting high on “justice.” And by justice, I mean elevating himself into the god plane. He thinks he is better than everyone else- his opinion is the only one that matters. After all, these pathetic people can’t possibly think for themselves. He must force them to see the truth!

And he thinks this because his world is so small, and “Madara”, implanted an idea onto his “blank canvas.”

This is literally what’s going through Sasuke’s mind during the final arc of the show. It is extreme, and exactly the opposite of what Naruto, our protagonist, believes. So obviously there is going to be a clash.

This is where I think the author screwed Sasuke over.

Ditching the Main Theme of Sasuke’s Character:

Sasuke up until this point only knows a few things: His first reason for existing was based on a lie, and he now thinks he is fighting for the truth- that Itachi died for nothing good, and it is up to him to change the world.

Naruto fights Sasuke, and when Sasuke realizes he can’t beat Naruto in a PHYSICAL FIGHT, he suddenly changes his drastic opinions on everything he believes in. He says “Sorry, I was crazy, let’s start over.” And that’s it. End credits start to roll.

Kishimoto took Sasuke’s character on a very long journey. And it was all leading up to this peak- the point where Sasuke literally bursts. Sasuke resembles a very specific type of person- a particular path one can take in life. It is about a boy who chose the life of vengeance over happiness and positive personal growth. And the consequences of that decision.

During the entire show, I am expecting something drastic to happen to Sasuke. He is a drastic character. He is a flawed character- a beautiful example of what revenge can do to a good person. As an author, it is important to make this character’s fate what it is being set up for- tragedy.

So there were two (good) writing options here:

Sasuke either needed to die, because his mind could not be changed and he was a danger to innocent people, or, he needed to be redeemed over a decent period of time.

By the time Sasuke enters the war, he is far gone. Is it possible to change his mind again? Sure. He is still young and bendable. But it wouldn’t take two seconds.

Madara didn’t change Sasuke’s mind- he filled blank space. Implanted an idea. He put something on a blank canvas.

Naruto, however, has to undo all of this brain washing. He has to change his mind.

There is a difference here.

Covering a blank canvas with color is easy. But covering those old colors with new ones is hard, and takes time.

As in, Kishi really needed to rethink his timeline for his manga.

The best thing he could have done, since he obviously wanted Sasuke to be redeemed, was to make Naruto fight Sasuke BEFORE the war.

Here’s an alternate timeline:

Naruto finally catches up with Sasuke before the war, and they fight it out. Sasuke loses, but only by a bit. And Naruto actually talks to him. Not the usual “this is my Dream”, but listening to Sasuke and discussing his experiences, and countering his opinion in a personal manner.

Naruto thinks he can’t change Sasuke’s mind, and he worries that if he doesn’t kill Sasuke, something bad will happen to those he cares about in the future. And Kishi puts a lot of time and emphasis on this encounter. This exchange of opinions. This is the cornerstone of their relationship up until this point.

But Naruto decides not to kill Sasuke, explaining the concept of unconditional love to him. And he leaves him.

And Sasuke spends time thinking on this.

And then the final battle begins, and Sasuke drops in, deciding on helping Naruto after all. Thus concluding the Naruto/Sasuke conflict.

This order of events would have been much better. Naruto and Sasuke fighting after the war seemed unnecessary, and it just didn’t flow. It made Sasuke look extremely fickle, when he is actually very stubborn.

Based on this sequence of events, why would Sasuke help Naruto defeat Obito? When Obito was literally trying to change the world “for the better,” just like Sasuke was. Maybe Sasuke didn’t agree on the method. Sasuke would rather kill everyone and start over with him as supreme leader. (Which is... worse than what Obito had in mind? Obito wanted everyone to live in a peaceful dreamworld, where everything was good.)

So, I guess my point is that Kishimoto had a path for Sasuke, and a few points to make about his choices. But he then ditched the consequences of those choices. Ignored the theme he created from the very beginning. In the canon timeline, we as an audience didn’t really learn any lessons from Sasuke’s journey. Sasuke’s part in the story kind of fizzled out. It didn’t have the zing I was hoping for. 

Sasuke deserved more attention. More focus on the climax of his personal journey. And more time for the falling action after this climax. 

For me to want to see him back at Kohona, I wanted more of his thought-process and journey. It would take time for a person as damaged as Sasuke to fit back into the social confines of his old village.

I would love additional thoughts on this! :)