#like how he is with renee and bee

[dykekarkat]

neil knowing that his distrust of wymack and his physical reactions to him are from the experiences he's had with his father but his inability to recognize the discomfort he feels around renee and betsy as something that could be connected to his mother...ive gotta put this boy in a lab for real...

[quiescentdestiny]

thinking about the fact that if Neil had died in Baltimore, literally none of Andrew's family would even know he was broken as much as he was by it. Like they saw him choke Kevin, but even after Baltimore, Nicky assumed it was just a fling.

[advluv4life]

I feel like Andrew probably is really frustrated with what Jean said and it might be eating away at him but I also feel like him and Neil are going to have to have a conversation about it because Neil's not going to let him get away with feeling this guilt that's not his to bear. If Andrew still wants to quit smoking (assuming that's what is happening) after that conversation then okay but him blaming himself for not being prepared is not fair.

The Ravens took Andrew out first because last time Andrew stopped Riko from getting rid of Neil.

And to be honest he was severely injured but he's still got to Neil before Jasmine could make a final blow, basically. So, I wouldn't consider him a failure at protecting Neil- even in this scenario.

Okay I love y’all so much but I’ve seen like 10 posts already with people talking about how Jean was right and that Andrew couldn’t reach Neil in time so that’s why he quit smoking.

Andrew was hit first! Neil was trying to get to him when Lane started attacking him. Andrew wouldn’t have even known that Neil was hit until he was already down.

So like yes, Andrew probably has Jean’s scathing opinion about the smoking rattling around his head because someone did try to kill Neil on the court again. But no amount of not smoking could have made Andrew get there faster. It was completely out of his control. Which, I think, is worse xoxo

[jordiipordii]

tgr ☀️ spoilers & me babbling:

so I don’t like to directly compare andreil and jerejean but I do want to take a sec to compare something from nora’s ec to tgr.

because nora is still the same writer and her brain still thinks somewhat similarly. so:

if you’ve read thru her original ec enough you might already know this but if you haven’t: in one section she mentions andrew talking to betsy about neil for close to a year and how andrew only stopped mentioning neil after they started kissing, touching, etc.

like something was establishing between them and betsy had her suspicions because one day andrew was ‘blah blah blah neil’ and then the next day andrew did a total 180 and wouldn’t talk about him with her at all. stay with me.

jean calls jeremy his partner six times in tgr. three of those six are in the span of 24hrs. he says it to cody once and jeremy himself twice.

this is during all the shit with the fall banquet. jean defending jeremy, his reaction to faser, his “they are not your partners” and their big heart to heart. all that good stuff. now get this:

jean doesn’t call jeremy his partner again— not for the last 180 pages. this boy who before that in both tsc and tgr was “you are my partner, you are my partner, you are my partner.”

he doesn’t say it ever again in the golden raven.

like think about everything else we get after the banquet: their first match together, all the shit with zane and the aftermath, the fire, jab. jean never calls jeremy his partner during any of it.

and that reminds me so much about what nora said in her ec about andrew suddenly completely shutting down about neil to betsy.

then at the end when we get from renee that jean has spent the last month talking to her mostly about jeremy? the last month and, since we’re at the end of september, that roughly doubling back to the weekend of the fall banquet? to me that’s not a coincidence.

jean stopped calling jeremy his partner after the banquet because that’s when he started moving away from just thinking jeremy is attractive and having like a crush/getting jealous to more concrete, stronger feelings.

that’s when he started learning to understand “partner” with a different meaning. like with rhemann and adi. and we got from his narrative “a partnership that had survived twenty-eight years in this heartless world.”

suddenly “partner” in raven logic doesn’t fit jeremy anymore. but jean can’t allow himself to let the new meaning apply to jeremy, either.

so he just doesn’t call jeremy that at all.

the same way andrew stopped talking about neil to bee because suddenly things had changed and were different.

[inafieldofstarflowers]

every time i reread aftg i am struck again by how much of a support system andrew minyard has & i think that’s such an important part of his character. betsy, renee, and wymack all have distinct roles in his life, and he actively seeks them out when he knows he needs them—when he needs a fight, he asks renee to spar. when he needs to get away he goes to wymack’s. when he needs to talk to someone (or maybe just for someone to talk to him, idk what their sessions are like) he turns to bee. andrew takes his healing seriously! he has found people to trust!

[allfortheslay25]

Hi. I love your art, and your story's off of them. I was wondering if you could go a little more in depth with Warren and Milo.

Sure! I’ll just cover their first meeting/impressions of one another. Also sorry it’s just a wip instead of the full line art, I started classes again and have found little time to squeeze in finished projects

First off, Milo was meant to stay with Wymack during the summer before his semester started at palmetto. Milo would be an assistant coach for a bit as he was not yet cleared to play full scrimmages with the team just yet. Wymack had not told the team and was planning to as soon as Milo’s plane landed. However, Milo booked an early and fast flight, eager to surprise his family (Wymack, Abby, Betsy, and Sarah aka Abby and David’s adopted daughter)

Milo didn’t have a key yet so he picked the lock of Wymack’s apartment and snuck inside, unknowing of the foxes already inside. Warren, who is very protective of Wymack, Abby, and Betsy, broke Milo’s nose upon entry. He didn’t give Milo a chance to explain since Warren has been conditioned to deal with everything with violence. He chased Milo, grabbing for him and swinging as the boy tried to escape. Milo had been trained by Matt to box, by Renee to wield a knife, and has the instinct to cause pain from his bloodline but his hearts too big to purposely hurt someone

Warren chased him into the hallway, tackling Milo and turning him around to hit him again when Wymack appeared, asking Warren wtf he was doing.

Wymack then explained that Milo would be staying with him and dropping by practices to help the team. Warren fumbled to apologize but after the craziness that was the encounter, he realized Milo was reallly pretty and so Warren was too shy to say anything else to him.

On Milo’s side of things, he was too busy reeling in his rage at being attacked to notice. Milo reminded himself to be nice and open to the foxes and attend his therapy with Bee every day.

Throughout the summer, Warren began to fall for Milo. He was his type after all; tall, cute smile, kind and friendly personality, intelligent and passionate. Plus he was amazing at exy. Warren got to be up and close with Milo during a scrimmage once (when Milo was giving the backliners a tip or two) and his talent and fierceness was the nail in the coffin for Warren.

On Milo’s side, he focused on exy and tried to get the foxes to bond so their teamwork would improve. He didn’t genuinely think of Warren often unless it was part of the team lol.

However, as soon as the semester began, Milo was officially introduced to the team as Emilio Isaiah Minyard-Josten. Warren’s crush crashed and burned when he realized this was the son of his favorite exy player, Neil Josten.

Warren, not knowing what to do with his feelings and discomfort at being close to Milo, began to accidentally bully him. He’d be too rough during practice, try to push him away (literally) and end up hurting him because Warren doesn’t know how to be gentle. He’s not very good at English which shows up more when he’s flustered so he’d be meaner than he intends.

On Milos side, he was confused and put off by warrens attitude. He wanted everyone to like him but every time he was nice, it only resulted in Warren clipping him in the ankle with his racquet or a hiss to leave him alone. Milo decided to respect warrens boundaries and give him the space he wanted. The only time they were ever close was on the court when the two would ignore everyone’s existence to push the other until one of them came out with the victory. Being that they were the teams most versatile players, they often practiced against each other

Sometime in Milo’s first week, he took his foxes out to Eden’s for bonding (he had never gone himself but his family had a reputation there and thus Milo had free entry) Milo made sure everyone had fun but was safe and eventually found Chris and Ash bothering Warren outside.

Warren was being pressured to try a smoke but he’d always thought it was a dumb habit. Until Milo chased away Chris and Ash, joining Warren outside for a civilized conversation, in which Milo inhaled the second hand smoke wistfully and said the smell reminded him of simpler times. (Referring to his five years of childhood at palmetto since andreil quit smoking after they graduated) Milo went back inside and Warren finished the cigarette. If he suddenly picked up a smoking habit, well that was his business.

Overall, Warren deals with his one sided crush on Milo. He’s too attracted to him to be his friend without guilt but he admires Neil Josten so much he refuses to make a move on Milo in fear that everyone will think it’s just a creepy fan move.

Milo is completely blind to Warren’s existence most days. He isn’t his friend and Milo has enough on his plate along with two people he actually has semi crushes on; Captain Jackie (a platonic crush) and Jay (a one sided crush since Jay finds Milo too young)

But Milo also has five more years to become close with Warren :)

[feralmode]

it actually pisses me off so much whenever anyone calls andrew a sociopath. ik not everyone is privy to the details of his life but you want to come after andrew minyard??? the love of my damn life??? and pretend he doesn't have FEELINGS????

andrew, who finally found a loving mother after years of abuse in the foster system and wanted so badly to be loved he tried to force himself to endure more abuse, and only put a stop to it to protect a brother he’d never met

andrew, who fights fiercely to protect other people's boundaries no matter who they are, even if it's his own family crossing a line

andrew, who learned exy in juvie and managed to put enough effort into it to become the best damn goalkeeper in class 1 exy

andrew, who told his uncle about his abuse to make sure his abuser wouldn’t have access to any more kids after him, only to be told it was a misunderstanding

andrew, who nearly killed the men who attacked his cousin and then was drugged against his will for nearly three years and took every opportunity to fight for sobriety even though it made him sick

andrew, who promised to protect kevin on only the hope of a future will to live because he wanted it so badly, because kevin told him he was worth something

andrew, who befriended renee when he discovered how similar they were and trusted her with his past and learned from her a way to protect himself and the people he cares about, who talks to her about the zombie apocalypse and world war 3 and spars with her when he's upset and only wins half their fights and never treats her like her faith or kindness make her weak or fragile

andrew, who fully trusts and believes in bee's ability to help him, laughs when she sends him funny texts, buys her souvenirs at the airport, and would go back for her in an apocalypse

andrew, who shut down the goal because wymack asked him to, but pretended it was for the booze

andrew, who falls for a man who’s an obvious liar and a runaway, knowing it could kill him to let someone in again, "maybe i'm not as smart as i thought i was"

andrew, who says yes to neil because neil is the only one who actually pays attention to how andrew thinks and listens to his reasons and offers him something in return for his loyalty, who gets close to neil because neil respects his no, "that's why"

andrew, who’s afraid of heights

andrew, who fights fiercely to protect the people he loves but won’t tell them why, because caring almost killed him the first time, who keeps his promises, "fuck you for expecting anything else"

andrew, who is fighting so, so hard to be alive and never gets any credit for it

andrew, who does end up smiling after he comes off the drugs, god damn it i will die on this hill!!!!

literally don't say shit to me about andrew "has feelings" minyard

[hmmm-shesucks]

Once the foxes become more comfortable with each other, they begin to nag. Mostly little things, usually humorous things. They nag on Nicky for being too forward sometimes. They nag on Neil for his horrible life habits. They nag on Dan for her mother henning. They nag on Kevin for everything. It's fun, it's what families do. They all just pick on each other for fun.

It takes a little longer for them to feel comfortable nagging Andrew though, which, is understandable, but one of the first things they start picking on him for is his lack of communication in general. He NEVER talks. They just want him to participate sometimes.

Renee and Neil find this funny because Andrew talks A LOT just not around the foxes. He's not comfortable.

See, Andrew is fucking weird. Everyone knows this, but the foxes think he's weird in a “mysterious, murder you in your sleep, was totally the kid everyone thought was going to shoot up the school” kind of weird.

Andrew is not that kind of weird. He's a different breed entirely. He plans out how he'd survive the apocalypse, any of them. He is constantly fighting back the most wild intrusive thoughts. He is 24/7 existential crisis. His head is a wild fucking place.

But he is trying. Making progress. Trying to be more open and approachable, as Bee says. So he talks. Out Loud.

And the foxes hate him.

In the most monotonous voice ever

“Do you ever feel like your bones are dirty? Like, I could totally strip my meat suit and just give my ribs a good bleaching.”

“If that light fell out of the ceiling it would kill at least three of you and seriously injure the rest of us.”

“Nothing is stopping me from buying five ice cream flavors at once, but I'm learning self-control and Bee would be disappointed.”

“Currently having a manic episode. Should I A.) call Bee, tell her I'm not doing too great, and talk about my symptoms and how to best cope? B.) find the nearest mall and spend every dime I have in less than thirty minutes. Or C.) go apeshit and try to fight anyone and everyone who looks at me in a less-than-kind way. Children included.

*stage whisper* there's a secret fourth option but I'm saving it for later ;) (pronounced Semicolon left facing open parentheses. Yes he says this out loud)”

disappears for less than five minutes and comes back with three furrbies and a corndog, one that is obviously not from the mall's food court.

He's so fucking weird. Like, weirder than Neil, and it's awful (so good dude, the foxes eat it up)

And it's not the manic Andrew on meds. It's just Andrew. He's still Andrew. He's still quiet most of the time and he is still grumpy and apathetic, but he's also comfortable enoughto just blurt random shit out and have fun watching everyone figure out how to respond. He's found safety in his new family and he can openly be who he is without fear of judgment or rejection. He's happy in a way he's never felt nor ever thought he'd get to experience. He's just Andrew.

[joejhang]

andrew's such a fake idgafer no way anyone ever thought this man was apathetic or soulless like...he cares so fucking much??? he beat up four grown men trying to hurt nicky (as a teenager, btw). he enrolled them all in psu so aaron could become a doctor. he threatened nicky at knifepoint not to hurt or touch neil (and this wasn't about neil specifically this was because he's been there, he's been a victim, and he wouldn't want anyone else, even this strange know-nothing kid who he finds suspicious, to experience it). he says "spoil the ending for me, did you kill him?" when renee told him about the man who raped her and she can tell he cares about her answer; he cared to know if she escaped the man who abused her even though he barely knew her at all at the time. he punched matt (a guy like twice his size) for hitting kevin. he nearly choked allison to death for slapping aaron. he freaked out so badly when neil was kidnapped; he literally strangled kevin, lapped the campus multiple times, went through his bag and phone, checked hospital records, felt fear for the first time in years...and everyone's still just like "oh yeah he doesn't have a soul." what??? he yells at someone for the first time when bee has a heart attack. he didn't tell bee about neil even though he told her about so much else because he didn't want to risk her disapproval. he had to sit in silence for a few minutes just processing how easily aaron and bee accepted his relationship with neil. he said "everyone knows now, bee" after they all found out about dr*ke's assault because he couldn't stomach the fact that he thought his loved ones wouldn't trust him to protect them now that they thought he couldn't protect himself. he bought neil armbands to match his so he wouldn't have to see the scars his father's people made on his arms. he ran to neil like all of hell was at his heels when riko threatened him. who the fuck ever thought he was apathetic or soulless.

[fairvstairs]

FOXES HEADCANONS!

Nicky watches soap operas when they are in the bus/plane/travelling to a game. The other foxes learned everything they know against their will but it's actually a good way to spend the time. Kevin keeps saying he hates them ("It always takes so long for secrets to get discovered" "Says the guy who waited years to tell his father his truth") but he's the only one who actually remembers the names of the characters. Every time an evil twin comes into the screen Neil laughs and points at Aaron . Every time someone lies about their identity Aaron laughs and points at Neil.

Neil has amazing hair but hates to take care of them. Andrew washes them with curly hair product, Allison cuts them (he lets her near him with scissors!!!) and Matt braids them during the summer.

Aaron can't study anatomy around the foxes because they scream "BROKE IT!" every time he mentions a bone they broke.

On the anniversary of Seth's death, the foxes and Wymack gather at Abby's place to have dinner together. They don't really talk about him but they leave one seat empty.

Neil found a injured rabbit during one of his runs, he brought it back to the dorm and the foxes successfully hid the pet for three weeks. One day they came back to their dorms from classes only to find Wymack there, holding the rabbit in his arms. This imagine becomes Abby's lock screen and the rabbit goes to live with Bee.

Matt is an amazing cook but Aaron finds his meals way too spicy. When he first said this around the others, Dan looked at him dead in the eyes and said "White trash," only to continue eating like nothing had happened.

Renee loves puzzle but she only does them in company so she usually sends a puzzle emoji on the group chat and whoever is free just goes to her dorm to spend quality time together.

Allison can't watch criminal shows around Andrew because he always spoils her about who the murderer is. He hasn't watched the shows, he just knows, and when she asks him how he knows he gives the stupidest answers. ("He was wearing a red tie," "He said 'good day' instead of 'good morning,' "He has a mole under his eye.")

Dan and Renee love Halloween and they always get matching costumes with Matt and Allison but not the couple kind. So far they have done the Ninja Turtles, the Fantastic Fours and the Teletubbies.

The twins wear each other's clothes on Halloween. Nicky, Katelyn and Neil are the only ones who don't fall for it. Neither does Wymack but he just lets them be without saying anything.

[cubbyyyy]

Okay I’m gonna do a little controversial post. I thought long if I should say it or not but with some comments I saw recently I kinda have an intense need for it. So yea, here I am.

Andrew doesn’t have to be thick.

There I said it. I saw many posts regarding Andrews appearance recently and people are throwing the fatphobic card when you don’t make him thick as hell and that’s just not it. Of course you can draw Andrew thick if it’s what you imagine him to be - there is absolutely nothing wrong with it BUT shaming others for not doing it bc it’s so unrealistic is just not true. Bc yea there are arguments for why he could be thicker - but there are arguments why he could be not as well. so it’s free to imagine him how you you want to without it being problematic for ignoring canon. Andrews body size was never actively described in the books, so it’s mostly interpretations.

He could be thicker bc he lifts weights and eats a lot of candy. But he could also have a good metabolism and is still in a sports team where he does have to work out. He’s also known for jogging all the time with Renee there. In the EC it was said he later on in life joins Bee on marathons to help her with her health. It’s also known that his body doesn’t look that different compared to Aaron since they can still body swap.

Do I wanna say it’s unrealistic to imagine him thicker? No. You can do what you want and I get where you come from. And I sure as hell can’t imagine andrew as a twink either, like no. But I don’t like how it starts to become problematic to imagine andrew not-thick since it is not like he has a set body type people actively ignore. so I wanted to shine some light on the other side and how it’s okay to imagine him that way too. Maybe I just saw one too many comments shaming art for not drawing andrew the way they hc it.

Thank you for listening and I hope you get where i come from :)

[xxxbabyinatrenchcoatxxx]

Angsty thoughts about Neil and if he died at the hands of his father. If Stuart was a few minutes too late.

The foxes would not survive. By that point Dan and Matt had become parental figures in the form of best friends. They would see the quiet places Neil used to occupy and see it empty. No more little quips or questions would come from it. Matt would start sleeping in the girls room again because his room is too quiet. Seth and Neil both dead within the span of 8 months. Their empty beds would be a constant reminder that he couldn't deal with. Allison would lean on Renee like she did with Seth. Renee would push her own feelings behind as she checked on everyone else, making sure they were okay, that they would lean on each other and nothing harmful to themselves. Nicky would still be the connection the monsters have to the upperclassmen. He would keep them updated if Renee or Dan asked how they were doing but he would stay by them for the company only. Aaron and Andrew are quiet in their grief. Aaron would see how Neil's death effected his brother, but wouldn't understand anything more than Andrew lost someone he said he would protect. He would see what would happen if he left his brother. Kevin would be plagued with the truth. He would know the intimate details of how Neil was taken apart, even if they weren't true. He'd remember seeing Neil's father in the Evermore tower and his brain would supply images of Neil in this position. He'd go to Wymack and ask why a father would do such a thing, asking if Wymack would do it to him. Wymack would put the peices together and discover his long lost son in the form of a drunken striker grieving the loss of a brother. Wyamck should have been used to it. Hed lost all of his first pick foxes. Whether it was due to drugs, suicide, or something else. They were all gone. He had high hopes for Neil. Starting as a runaway with trust issues but made connections in the team. He pulled everyone together after Seths death. He pushed the team to be better. He even got through to Wymacks most difficult player. Andrew. Andrew. Andrew would barely make it. He would retreat into himself, allowing his apathy to take full control and let himself drown in his memories. He'd stop going to Wednesday meetings with Bee. Stop responding at all. The monsters would lose him. Renee would find him at the court starting at the pictures on the wall, trying to remind himself that Neil existed and he wasn't a hallucination that he clung to desperately trying to be seen. Neil existed. He was right here, documented on the walls of the Foxhole Court. Andrew contemplates suicide on more than one occasion. First was about a week after Neil's death. There was no funeral. Nothing. No one even acknowledged it other than to say the Foxes forfitted championships to the Ravens. But then Aaron came back and asked if he was going to return to Wednesday meetings with Bee, reminding Andrew of his promises. The next time was after graduation, Aaron going off to Med School and Kevin safe with his father as he played professional Exy. Andrew had gotten his degree, but it didn't mean anything to him. There was nothing for him left in the world. Aaron dropped him immediately and Kevin didn't hold up his end of the bargain. Bee kept telling him things would get easier over time, but that was a lie too. But then Renee texted him asking to meet up for lunch. She asked what his first memory was. He didn't hide, didn't sugar coat anything for her, told her the cold hard truth. Renee wasn't expecting the accuracy of his memory. Then she asked if he killed himself, how would Neil's memory live on? The pictures would eventually be covered up at the court, he would be forgotten in exy. That's when Andrew decided he'd live, if only for Neil's memory to live on with him.

[andrewminyardslawyer]

The Golden Raven predictions/theories/a few wishful thinking

Last time I got all of them correct so we'll see how this goes! Sorry for the length, there was a lot more detail and explanations this time around lmao I've posted some of these separately and will probably add more after my reread 🤷‍♂️

- Andrew and Neil go with Kevin to Cali. To keep up the childhood friend pretence, and Kevin can't go alone. Andrew talks to Jean about Bee, that she is trustworthy. Nothing extreme but like "talk to Bee" and nothing else but Jean understands (I actually doubt this is going to happen but I think if anyone's going to convince Jean it's okay to talk to her it would be Andrew based off of Jean's thoughts from TSC). I want Wymack there but I don't think he will be with practice already started for the year and the new foxes there. A potential Kevin and Renee combo because Jean needs support and Kevin can't go alone but Andrew and Neil need to stay with the team. Either way Kevin will have someone with him, he won't be able to travel alone

- Kevin and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day. Talks to Jeremy more about the nest and we get more information on what Riko did to Kevin

- I hope the interview is not live or recorded, it needs to be an article and I want it to be done by Renee's mom even though I have no idea what kind of reporter she is. She would be the kindest option but I don't think we're in for a kind interview. I don't think it'll be completely disastrous though. Kevin knows what he's doing, he's going all the way to Cali specifically to support Jean, the interview is to control the rumors, I don't think it will crash and burn. The Kevin Jean conversation before/after however...

- We know Jeremy's dad is (most likely) military and military often become cops when they come back. Jeremy hides from the cops (valid. ACAB)...

- someone on the team tries joking around with Jean and does something to trigger a panic attack, like splashing him with water or something

- Jean and the Coaches post

- Jean and Shane become friends. Shane is a little chaotic (he's a goalie, comes with the territory) and gets Jean to start changing how he thinks about things, he can relax a little and have fun. My reason why I think it's Shane post

- Jean baby please seriously talk to Bee

- Jean crying. Please I need him to let it out!!!

- interesting to me that Jeremy's parents make him stay at the house during the week but he's free on the weekends and during the summer. Wondering if he was missing classes and he has to stay there so they make sure he goes

- mysterious potentially dead sibling is his stepfather's biologically?

- Thanksgiving break. Cat and Laila go to one of their families, leaving Jean and Jeremy alone at the house. Jeremy is required to attend Thanksgiving dinner and Jean is invited so he's not alone and Jeremy's step dad/grandfather wants to "get to know the new teammate"

- Annalise using the term investment for Jean seems like....a Choice. Pair that with Jeremy's meticulous tracking of money and his family restricting how much he gets, it seems like Jeremy has been irresponsible with money in the past

- Jeremy family event obligation. It was mentioned that if "If the Con-gressman needed a picture-perfect family for photo ops, the Knox family was duty-bound to dress up and smile bright for an exhausting number of cameras" (congressman is his step grandfather)

- "but there's bound to be a jerk or two once you pass four kids." Once you PASS for kids. Jeremy has more than Bryson, Annalise, and one mysterious probably dead other sibling. Potentially none dead and just cut contact? Maybe took sides with Jeremy's bio dad

- Jean's parents contact him some how but honestly I think if that's going to happen it will be in the third book. I feel like that part of the story won't really start rolling until then, like publicly.

- a scene with Jeremy talking to his therapist

- I feel like Jeremy's mom didn't marry his stepfather until recentlyish. Like the thing that "tore their family apart" was their parents divorcing after whatever went down Jeremy's freshman year. Or maybe they were divorced before that but still on speaking terms and the Event changed that.

- we find out what Jeremy's stepdad actually does. We know his step grandfather is a congressman but no information about his stepdad

- more of a personal wish but I don't want Jean to drink alcohol, like ever. I want him to learn how to work through things without it, I want him to avoid it because he doesn't want to become dependent on it, doesn't want to risk it

- Jean is average at pottery at first and that frustrates him that he isn't perfect at it immediately but it helps him learn that it's ok to not be good at everything or that slow progress is more sustainable

- depending on the timeline, Jean birthday. One of the team asks him when it is and they make a thing out of it on the day. Or no one knows but the coaches have it marked and one wishes him happy birthday during practice and the team, mainly the main trio/floozies, are like why didn't you tell us ☹️ and get him a few small things

- more Elodie conversations. The trio finds out

- find out what happen with Zane and Grayson but it's because Zane gets in touch with Jean after Grayson dies and they have some sort of discussion about it. Maybe Zane goes public and talks about it before committing suicide

- i've seen a million theories about Jeremy's backstory but none really bring his father into it and I think we need to focus on that a little bit more. Jeremy says he doesn't like people calling him by his last name, Knox, which must be his biological fathers last name because his stepdad's name is Wilshire. And he says ' "I've never been to Europe. Dad's been stationed there a couple times, but.." He shrugged and didn't bother to elaborate.' My immediate thought was military but with his mom remarrying a man whose father is a congressman makes me think Jeremy's dad might be more in that type of work than military because how else would she be in the same sphere as a congressman's son. Maybe high level military. Anyway! Jeremy doesn't want to use his father's last name either so something definitely happened with him as well. Whether it's two different things or all the same as the "scandal" Jeremy's first year. I don't really have a set theory about it but I do think he is involved in some way

[palmettoshenanigans]

HERE'S WHY I LOVE ANDREIL SO MUCH

Their main language - one no one else seems to speak (except maybe Renee and Bee?? which would explain why Neil finds their vibes off putting and why they're the ones able to get close to Andrew like that) - is the language of Technicalities and Semantics. But here's the thing: when you speak Technicalities and Semantics, its all in the subtext and the text. But you don't assume everyone is going to be literate in text and have the wherewithal to also delve into the subtext! You can't! Because people don't really do that, at least not with the level of intention that Andrew and Neil do.

Example: "I should hope so."

Imagine this, pretend Riko is alive. He gets into a car accident, and he survives unscathed. His car takes the brunt of it. Someone during a press conference relays this to Neil and says, "But Riko is okay!"

Neil smiles, exercises the bare minimum of his PR training and says, "I should hope so."

But, notice. He said he should hope so. Not that he would hope so.

"I would hope so" means I'm suppose to hope that this person is okay according to moral standards, and I do

"I should hope so" means I'm suppose to hope this person is okay according to moral standards, but I don't

God forbid someone asks further questions about his feelings on the matter. No one would take "Technically I said-" seriously because people don't normally play that game. The technical differences between 'would' and 'should' lack relevant meaning in this context because that's a meta-level conversation and no one has time for that kind of tit for tat - except Andrew.

Let's do another one: "Did you need something?"

Someone comes up to Neil and he says, full of suspicion, "Did you need something?" They say yes and tell him their needs, then he directs them to someone who can fulfill them. But - they argue - they were asking him for help and he offered!

"No," he says, "I asked if you needed something; never said I'd be the one to do anything about it."

And that's why (in this hypothetical) Neil specifically said "Did you need something?" and not "Can I help you?" because he wasn't going to help you anyway so why offer it, even if you'd never meant to ask? Because just like he can trap someone with his words, someone else can trap him with his own words.

And as a writer whose Special Interest is Language and how it can be manipulated, I LOVE THAT!!!

An aspect of why and how Andrew and Neil fell for each other was because they both speak this language. Technicalities and Semantics. That's why Neil understood more about Tilda than Aaron. It's why Andrew understood the weight of 'Abram'. It's why "Nothing" and "I hate you" spoke more volumes to them than any soft words ever could have. It's why "Stay" was able to bring Neil back from the brink. It's why what they don't say is just as important as what they do because "never said yes" == "no" and "never said no" =/= "yes" are obvious to them but not to others!

And its why they throw their words back at each other from past encounters! Because "we both know what you said and we both know what you meant, and we both know that this applies here too and i'm going to prove it by quoting you directly, check mate now kiss me hypocrite" is their fucking LOVE LANGUAGE FIGHT ME RIGHT NOW

Listen to the actual words coming out of their mouth, pay attention to their technical meanings, and be willing to also parse the subtext, and you will be fluent in Andreil forever.

[ultimate-marysue]

Something I like a lot about Nora's writing is that, despite the intensity of the romance in her books, the main ship isn't completely isolated. Let me explain.

It would be so easy to have Neil be the only one that understands Andrew, have them be everything to each other. It's such a cliche. How much more important romance is over any other kind of relationship, how your partner is the only one that sees you... except that's not how it goes in aftg. Sure, Neil is one of the people that understands Andrew the best. He also has it easier getting him to agree with him because Andrew loves him. But he isn't the only one.

Despite the very Neil focused pov, we know Andrew cares about a lot of people. Not only that, but we know there's people that understand him truly, even if not to Neil's degree. His friendship with Renee, His relationship with both Bee and Whymack. He has other people that he will listen to even if he acts difficult about it. Like the way Whymack offers him alcohol for playing both halves despite both of them knowing he would do it regardless. The only tangible difference is that Neil has the leverage lack of survival instincts and fresh outlook to expedite fixing Andrew's life.

TSC is even more obvious because we spend so much of the book on friendship. Not only are Jean and Jeremy spending a significant amount of their pov talking about their relationship with cat and Laila, but it goes both ways. After aftg Cat and Laila were just girlfriends, but after tac they are their own people with fulfilling friendships outside their romance.

Maybe it's the Ace-Aro in me, but understanding that you're gonna have important people in your life that understand and love you outside romantic partners is so important to me.

[thefoxholecast]

The Original Foxhole Court Extra Content (Archived from Nora Sakavic’s Tumblr)

We copied the following text directly from the pre-2024 version of the Foxhole Court Extra Content page on Nora Sakavic’s Tumblr blog (korakos.tumblr.com/fox). In March 2024, she did “some spring cleaning” by shortening the list of links and deleting/hiding old posts. The links in this copy lead to archived snapshots of the old posts on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine.

Some of the links are broken. If you have copies of these posts, please let us know so we can fill in missing content!

Because Tumblr only allows up to 100 links per post, we're unable to replicate the full list here. View the full list of links on our blog here: thefoxholecast.tumblr.com/FoxArchive

The Foxhole Court

ETA 2023: most of the posts here are from 2013-2015. Some of them overlap with older drafts. Some answers have evolved over time, even if they haven’t been updated here. Most I haven’t changed my mind on, for better or worse. Take ‘em or leave ‘em, and good luck making sense of ‘em around all the drunk rambling and detours. One day if I have the energy I’ll just sort it into a coherent reference.

~~

Two sections here: the questions submitted by tumblr users, and a miscellaneous collection of stories & factoids pulled from the oft-neglected blog. The questions aren’t in any particular order, though I did try to organize them by subject matter. Ish. Once the dust is settled a bit I’ll try to find a better sorting system. Also, the tumblr tag I use for questions is http://korakos.tumblr.com/tagged/foxhole-court-questions-and-spoilers

Lots of spoilers for The Foxhole Court ahead!

Preface: Why are Asks disabled in 2016?

COURTING MADNESS

—Exy Rules & Regulations

—Exy: A History of the Sport

—Palmetto State University

—The original “What Happens After King’s Men” post

—SON NEFES, the cousins’ freshman year through Renee’s eyes

——One . Two . Three . Four . Five

—Nicky Hemmick

—Seth Gordon

—Aaron Minyard

—Matt Boyd

—Kevin & Andrew

—David Wymack & the Monsters

—Wymack & Andrew re: Neil

—Dan Wilds is recruited to the Foxes *

—Allison through Dan & Renee’s eyes *

——pulled from an abandoned, unfinished book about the Foxes’ women

TUMBLR

NEIL

—Neil’s life on the run

—Do they ever celebrate Neil’s birthday?

—What if Neil told the truth earlier?

—Neil through the Foxes’ eyes

—Neil through Ichirou’s eyes

—Neil’s looks post-book and relationship with his reflection

—Does Neil ever talk to Bee?

—Neil’s millions

—Neil’s fight training

—Who’s Neil closest to beside Andrew

—Neil’s fashion style

—Cellphone ringtone

—Christmas/birthday presents for Foxes

—Does Neil ever cry?

—Neil’s lonely fifth year

—When Neil’s overwhelmed

—Does Neil crush on his teammates?

—Neil & Ichirou’s intimidation

ANDREW

—Andrew’s sober look at his teammates & Neil

—How did Andrew react to Cass’s letter?

—Andrew’s medication and the follow-up

—Has Abby seen Andrew’s scars?

—Andrew & Mama Bee

—Andrew & Roland

—How far has Andrew willingly gone?

—What animal figurine did Andrew buy Betsy?

—Andrew’s eye color

—Andrew’s opinion of the cats

—What’d Andrew say to Nicky in TKM?

—Andrew’s honest opinion of Exy

—Andrew’s thoughts on Neil’s binder

—Andrew and his sexuality

—If Andrew had met Neil’s mother

—Andrew’s thoughts on Neil’s sexuality

—Andrew’s fondest memory of Neil

—Andrew’s aforementioned withdrawal

—Do you think Andrew is really really really awesome?

—Proust and Andrew

—What happens to Proust?

—Andrew’s reaction to Neil’s bday blood

—Andrew on Neil eventually changing out

—Does Andrew get grumpy?

—Does Andrew get less dead inside?

—Does Andrew call Neil by his name?

—Why give the Foxes crackers?

—Andrew’s first choices in winning a fight

—Who liked knives?

—What got chopped from Drake’s arc?

—Does Andrew get off thinking about Neil?

—Post Andrew & Bee’s side story?

—When did Andrew start thinking Neil was interesting?

—Any other words he can’t stand?

—What does he think about nicknames?

—Explain Andrew’s fatal disease in the comic version

—Andrew’s canon mental state

—How did Andrew not know about Tilda’s abuse?

—Why punch Neil for “Sorry”, and when Andrew is sick

—What’s with Andrew and promises

—Andrew’s thoughts on Roland’s premature confession

—Andrew’s arrest

—Wanting nothing vs not wanting anything

—Why was Andrew laughing after Drake?

—If Neil had chosen Dan & Matt over Andrew

NEIL & ANDREW

—The other 10%

—Which teammate caught on first?

—Do Andrew & Neil go on dates?

—When did they first hold hands?

—When did Andrew clue in?

—Exites self-censure

—Betsy’s & Aaron’s reactions to the news

—Roland’s opinion of things

—The breaking point

—Who tops?

—On tying people up

—Their domestic life aka Sir Fat Cat

—I love you

—Andrew and the bed issue

—Nightmares

—Do they learn to talk to each other?

—Blaming Neil for Drake

—Andrew comforting Neil?

—Neil’s fondest memory of Andrew

—Neil getting Andrew off for the first time

—Neil seeing Andrew naked

—Neil & the sex how-to

—How was the first time

—Where’d it happen?

—When was their first hug?

—“I won’t let you let me be”

—Their roadtrips

—Neil waking Andrew up

—Andrew’s real smile

—How does Andrew show appreciation for Neil

—Their happiest moments

—Does Neil ever make Andrew laugh?

—Does Andrew take comfort in Neil

—Does Andrew get protective/possessive?

—Doesn’t Neil crave affection?

—Andrew re: Neil’s panic attacks

—Media reaction to Andrew/Neil

—Further reaction to Andrew/Neil

—On “accidentally” sitting in laps

—What if Andrew died?

—What if Neil died?

—Reaction to getting hit on by others

—Do they celebrate anniversaries?

—The first time Neil pushes Andrew down

FOXES

—How tall are the Foxes?

—Why is everyone so short?

—Where did their names come from?

—What were their majors?

—What do the Foxes look like?

—What are their Hogwarts houses?

—Reaction to the kidnapping

—Do Neil & Renee become friends?

—What did Allison do with Seth’s urn?

—Nicky’s evolution over the drafts

—Do the Foxes get their skiing trip?

—Does Andrew know Nicky kissed Neil?

—When did Aaron & Katelyn fall for each other?

—How did Andrew and Wymack end up handcuffed together?

—Kevin’s favorite things

—Kevin and Andrew’s on-court kerfuffle

—Dan’s haircut

—Dan & Matt’s relationship

—Dan & Matt’s first kiss

—Matt bouncing back from Columbia

—Matt rooming with the monsters

—The other what-if OT3 aka D/M/N and the dynamic

—Do Allison and Renee have the hots for each other?

—Matt forgiving his father

—Any mistletoe shenanigans?

—Thanksgiving and the Foxes

—Kevin’s best friend

—Janie Smalls

—How did Kevin and Thea meet?

—Foxes’ favorite ice cream flavors

—Kevin & Andrew’s on-court argument

—Foxes’ taste in music

—Kevin’s middle name & drink of choice

—Do Kevin & Neil want to kiss?

—Which Fox would Kevin kiss, then?

—Kevin’s best non-Exy memory

—Allison’s three bets

—Why is Allison’s middle name Jamaica

—Kevin, Andrew, and Neil staying friends

—“Joan of Exy”?

—Can the Foxes sing?

—Some of the Foxes’ previous bets

—Do Nicky & Allison become friends?

—Are Foxes based on RL people?

—Nicky when Neil asks about friendship

—Dan & the monsters in Columbia

—What if Kevin was killed?

—Renee and her near-death experiences

—More background available on Renee?

—Why doesn’t Aaron let the Foxes in?

—Team’s reaction to Drake, Andrew’s reaction to being outed

—Andrew & Aaron’s time with Tilda

—Does Aaron reconcile with Andrew over Tilda?

—Nicky & his parents after Drake

—Foxes thoughts in Baltimore

FOXES POST-TKM

—The Pro Teams

—The Weddings

—Neil as the Best Man?

—Kevin after TKM —Thea, Jean, Foxes, and Riko

—How does Kevin & Wymack’s relationship evolve?

—Renee after TKM

—Nicky after TKM

—Aaron after TKM

—Allison after TKM

—Dan & Matt after TKM

—Dan and the US Court

—Any pro-period scandals?

—Andrew & Neil’s relationship with their team

—Would Neil hold Matt’s children?

—Neil & babysitting the Foxes’ kids

—Which Fox’s child would curse first

THE FUTURE FOXES

—Who is Robin Cross?

—Neil and Jack

—Andrew’s reaction to Neil punching Jack

—Foxes’ reaction to Neil punching

—Kevin and Jack

—Neil’s new recruit

—Andrew and Jack

RIVALS

—Who is Riko Moriyama?

—Riko & Kevin’s evolving relationship

—More about Riko & Kevin’s past

—How did Riko break Kevin’s hand

—Riko’s brutality toward Jean

—Any draft where Riko wasn’t killed?

—Were Riko, Kevin, and Jean involved sexually?

—Does the Fox-Trojan rematch happen? Also how do the Trojans & Jean get along?

—Do Alvarez & Laila (Trojans) have backstories?

—Thea’s number & thoughts on Raven brutality

THE “ADULTS”

—Kayleigh Day & David Wymack

—Abby Winfield & David Wymack

—Wymack’s parents

—Did Wymack cry during the trilogy?

—Did Kayleigh know about the Moriyamas?

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Nora & the Foxes

—Fancast and Andrew

—Changing opinion of Foxes over the years

—Bits of the scrapped K/N/A threesome here and here

—The KxAxN AU where Kevin died

—Will there be a sequel?

—What inspired you to develop Exy?

—Fox fanfictions, collected by coldsaturn

—Why a pseudonym?

—What came first, characters or story?

—Were you the artist of the comic version?

—What did the comic-Foxes look like?

—What do you do when you’re not writing?