#like helen or aphrodite or someone

[bananonbinary]

a weird association ive started making is terfs and old ass greek poetry. that sounds insane but it's because when i find a blog i suspect is transphobic, i naturally search it for the term "trans," and the only thing that comes up is dozens of lines of poetry or theater or literature that have been translated and thus have a little (trans [author]) note at the end.

the weird thing is, its like. a LOT of poetry. like wayyy more than you'd usually expect to see, even on an aesthetic blog. and before anyone comes in saying its a lesbian thing, no it's not all sappho fragments either. its just...tons of really really horny but really generic like single lines from random-ass greek plays like "her lips were honey" or something with no other context or commentary.

and like, obviously an interest in greek poetry/literature isn't an actual red flag; it's a perfectly normal thing to like. but it reminds me of those guys that are REALLY into the roman empire, but in a really boring and ahistorical way where they wax poetic about an imagined utopia where everyone was exactly the way they want them to be. men were masculine and women were submissive and everyone was white.

and i just feel like, without actually saying it directly, terfs tend to do the same thing. in some mythological past that only existed between lines of fictional dialogue here and there, women were all cherished (but weirdly hyper-sexualized) tradwives, and men and trans people never interacted with them ever.

[melodyartist]

Was scrolling through your page and saw the “Odysseus was kidnapped by Paris instead of Helen” art with Penelope. So I’m asking if you could draw Odysseus and Paris interacting pls? 👉👈

Let's just say that in this version everyone is mad at Paris, because he kidnapped a person he shouldn't have kidnapped and furthermore he didn't keep his agreements with Aphrodite so there's that too... Just because he wanted someone like Odysseus on his side and instead of thinking with the mind preferred to follow the heart.

It's a really short interaction but damn this was really fun to make. Athena, Ares and Poseidon joining forces to help Penelope is still such a funny concept to me.

( I might have used some quotes... From Paris the musical...)

@attyhat 's Paris design

[theoi-crow]

The humans in Greek Mythology are the mega rich and powerful:

In my college classes people are often shocked when I tell them my favorite part of Greek mythology is the gods themselves and I'm not a big fan of the humans.

99% of my classmates prefer the humans in mythos, especially the ones that stick it to the gods like Sisyphus and feel bad for humans like Kassandra and Helen who have been wronged by the gods because "they're just like us." My classmates and teachers hate the gods and don't understand why anyone in modern times would want to worship such violent and selfish beings whenever I point out there are still people who worship them. They hold onto the idea that people in mythology embody the human experience of being oppressed by terrible gods and fate and we should feel bad for them because "they're human just like us" but they forget that the people in Greek Mythology are NOT just like us. They are more relatable to medieval royalty, colonizers and ultra rich politicians who make laws and decisions on wars and the fates of others, especially the poor and the very vulnerable.

Every hero or important human in Greek Mythology is either some form of royalty or mega rich politician/priest-priestess (of course this is with the exception of people who are explicitly stated to be poor like the old married couple in the myth where Zeus and Hermes pretend to be panhandlers). All of them have an ancient Greek lifestyle more relatable to Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, and especially to British royalty during the British empire, than the average person.

All of them.

Odysseus, Patroclus, Theseus, Helen of Troy, Kassandra, Diomedes, Agamemnon, Perseus, Hercules, Aeneas, Paris, Any human who has a divine parent or is related to one, etc. Although sometimes the story omits it, it is heavily implied that these are people who own hundreds or even thousands of slaves, very poor farmers and the tiny barely there working class as royal subjects.

They are the ones who make laws and whose decisions massively affect the fates of so many people. So no, they can't just be forgiven for some little whim, because that little whim affects the literal lives of everyone under their rule. By being spoiled they've just risked the lives of thousands of people and possibly even gotten them killed like when Odysseus' audacity got every single slave and soldier in his ships killed or when Patroclus as a kid got upset and killed another kid for beating him at a game. (A normal person wouldn't kill another person just for winning a game but royalty and those who think they're above the law do it all the time, plus the class status of the child wasn't mentioned but the way he didn't think he'd get in trouble implies the kid was of lower class, possibly the child of a slave or a foreign merchant.)

The gods get a bad reputation for punishing the humans in mythology but, if not them, who else is going to keep them accountable when they are the law?

And whose to say the humans beneath them weren't praying to the gods in order to keep their masters in check?

Apollo is the god in charge of freeing slaves, Zeus is the god of refugees, immigrants and homeless people, Ares is the protector of women, Artemis protects children, Aphrodite is the goddess of the LGBT community, Hephaestus takes care of the disabled, etc. It wouldn't be surprising if the gods are punishing the ultra rich and powerful in these myths because the humans under their rulership prayed and sent them as they did historically.

Every time someone asks me if I feel bad for a human character in a myth, I think about the many lives affected by the decision that one human character made and if I'm being completely honest, I too would pray to the gods and ask them to please punish them so they can make more careful decisions in the future because:

They are not just like us.

We are the farmers, a lot of our ancestors were slaves, we are the vulnerable being eaten by capitalism and destroyed by the violence colonialism created. We are the poor subjects that can only pray and hope the gods will come and correct whatever selfish behavior the royal house and mega rich politicians are doing above us.

And that's why I pray to the gods, because in modern times I'm dealing with modern Agamemnons who would kill whatever family members they have to in order to reach their end goal, I'm dealing with everyday modern Achilles who would rather see their own side die because they couldn't keep their favorite toy and would gladly watch their subjects die if it means they eventually get their way. The ones that let capitalism eat their country and it's citizens alive so long as it makes them more money. These are our modern "demigods," politicians who swear they are so close to God that they know what he wants and so they pass laws that benefit only them and claim these laws are ordained by God due to their close connection just like how Achilles can speak to the gods because of his demigod status via his mother.

Look at the news, these are humans that would be mythical characters getting punished by Greek gods which is why anything Greco-Roman is jealousy guarded by the rich and powerful and is inaccessible to modern worshippers because Ivy League schools like Harvard and Cambridge make sure to keep it that way. That's what we're dealing with. These are the humans these mythical beings would be because:

In our modern times the humans in mythos would be the politicians and mega rich that are currently ruining our society and trying to turn it into a world where only the rich can manipulate wars and laws, just like they do in mythology.

Fuck them.

I literally have so much more to add about my disdain for them and I didn't even touch on the obvious ancient Greek propaganda.

[protagaster]

Hi, I don’t know if someone has asked this already but I just wanted to know how everything started in you au?

Why is Penelope the one fighting in war while her husband is at home?

I know is a warrior!penelope au but i would like to know how that works in your story?

I also really like your take in the au it’s so cool!

Hello my friend! Thank you so much for taking the time to ask about the details regarding the AU :)! It makes me very happy to see you interested!

It's recounted with a bit more detail in the prequel (titled 'A King with no Queen') but here is the main gist of it.

Buckle up, it's gonna be quite a ride:

First things first, everything starts off exactly the same as it does in the Iliad. Paris chooses Aphrodite as the most beautiful of the Goddess', leading to Aphrodite taking Helen away from her home and husband (Menelaus) and forcing the mortal woman to be with Paris. From there, just as it goes in Homer's tale, Menelaus and Agamemnon force all of Helen's past suitors to fight with them in the war against Troy; this is because of an oath Odysseus himself proposed in order to keep the peace regardless of who Helen chose to be her husband, quote: "all the suitors should swear a most solemn oath to defend the chosen husband against whoever should quarrel with him".

Everything progresses as it does, with all of our favorite Greek heroes, including Odysseus, fighting in the war. This is where things begin to swerve for the AU.

That first year of war the men actually succeed in sneaking Helen out of Troy's palace thanks to their cunning and spies. They place her on a tiny ship that would sail her back to Sparta as quickly as possible and spend the night celebrating in their hidden camps without a care in the world. Unfortunately, the Trojans were quick to notice Helen's disappearance. While they were unable to keep her from leaving Troy, they decided to settle their seething anger with the next best thing. That night, while the Greek armies were full and drunk with merriment, the Trojans sneak into their camps thanks to the information provided by their [the Trojans] own spies. Right then and there the Trojans attacks.

This leads to the Greek men getting horribly injured, to the point where almost all of them are no longer fit for war. In exchange for Helen, the Trojan armies kidnap most of the Greek heroes (Menelaus, Agamemnon, Diomedes, just to name a few) and keep them alive as a warning and form of ransom against Greece and the Gods who support them. Odysseus, who was speared horribly in his shoulder, was spared from capture only thanks to the relentlessness of his Ithacan men.

Only a small handful of men are both spared from injury and allowed to continue to fight (Achilles and Patroclus to name a couple, that detail is just for you @somereaderinblue). The rest, by order of the Gods themselves, are forced to return home as they are no longer of use for combat.

Odysseus, Eurylochus, and the rest of the Ithacan army that was drafted return to Ithaca. Despite the damage they have received, things look hopeful and the future appears to be bright.

However, Greece still needs an army.

This is a timeline where, by Hera's orders, the Gods slowly work to give the women of Greece more autonomy by allowing them to partake in activities one thought to be only for men. Two of the Gods working hardest to meet this goal are Ares and Artemis, who have collaborated to teach women the art of combat and bearing arms.

Ares, who has never been in his parent's good graces, is in extra trouble now due to agreeing to support the Greeks on Hera's request but then turning around and supporting the Trojans upon Aphrodite's say. Hera declares that the only way to make it up to her is by drafting his eligible female warriors (those of age and with enough skill and experience to survive) to fight in the men's stead.

This includes Penelope, who had passed his trial back when she was still a young Spartan Princess and in turn became Ares' personal pupil (look at Warrior of the Heart if you would like more details). With a combination of Ares' order and Helen's plea, who feels the war is all her fault and wants to learn to fight in order to save her husband, Penelope is forced to leave behind Ody and Tele (a girl in mine and Blue's AU) in order to fulfill her duty.

That's how our version of the Warrior Penelope AU came to be! I'm sure you all know what happens from there ;)

P.S - Here are a few fun facts, not at all relevant to the AU, but still I wanna share em:

Hermione, Helen and Menelaus' daughter, actually snuck herself onto her mother's warship in order to join them in saving her father

The only reason Clytemnestra agrees to save Agamemnon is to kill him herself once they return home, since he still sacrificed their daughter before he and his men headed off for war

Patroclus was surprised when he saw Penelope for the first time. After how much Ody spoke of her, Patroclus had assumed for a time that she was a mere fiction of his imagination, a coping mechanism to keep himself sane (thank Blue for this one!)

On #3's note, Patroclus, Helen, Clytemnestra, and the rest of the Greek army immediately saw the similarities between Penny and Ody when Penny refused to shut up about how amazing her husband is and how much she longed to see him again

[aphroditelovesu]

Yan!Percy Jackson love letter to Reader who is a daughter of Aphrodite? Pls 🥹❤️

My beloved,

I write these words with an open heart and my thoughts immersed in memories that have only become brighter since I met you. From the moment our paths crossed at Camp Half-Blood, my life changed in ways I never imagined.

Your smile, so full of grace and charm, brightens even the darkest days. Your eyes reflect the beauty of the world in a way that makes me realize that there is always more magic around us than our eyes can capture. Your courage and determination are an inspiration to me, they make me want to be someone better, to be better for you.

You are like a gentle song amidst the chaos, bringing calm to my troubled world. In every battle we fight together, your presence is my lighthouse, my strength to keep fighting. And in the quiet moments, it's the comfort of your presence that makes me feel at home.

I can't help but feel every day that your beauty could be the cause of wars between gods. Maybe like Helen of Troy, but you are a thousand times more beautiful. As if my heart were imprisoned by invisible chains, bound only to you. The way your hair dances with the wind, the way your gaze reflects the very essence of love, takes my breath away.

Know that this affection is more than a simple passion. It's as if my soul is entwined with yours, impossible to separate. I promise to protect you, whatever the cost, even if I have to face the entire Olympus to do so. No demigod, no god or titan could stop the intensity of my love for you.

If someone tries to steal your attention, your eyes, your essence, I will be there, guarding you like a unique treasure. Even if I have to pass through the very gates of Hades to ensure your safety, I will do so. I love you, always remember that.

With eternal love,

Percy Jackson.

[yall-batman-fanfic]

[Maxie] Zeus | Bruce Wayne/Batman x OC!Magician

Synopsis: Before Maxie Zeus became part of Batman's rogue's gallery, he was a mild history professor in Gotham University, working in the same department as Vivian. Though married, he admits to himself and some of his colleagues his infatuation towards Vivian. But nothing stays innocent in Gotham City.

Maximillian Zeus is a horrible person. How could he have these thoughts about his new and much younger colleague while he has a wife and child?! But how couldn't he either? The new Symbology and Iconography, and Art History professor was as beautiful as Aphrodite. Her red hair reminded him of Sandro Botticelli's The Birth of Venus, her pois of the three Graces---the Charities, who are the goddesses of beauty, grace, and charm — or she could be Helen. Homer never really gave an explanation on how Helen looked and the woman remained somewhat of a mystery in all stories. All that was known of her was her treachery towards her husband, and to have been the most beautiful woman of all, hence the saying: the face that launched a thousand ships.

“Everyone, let's all give Professor Vivian Pryor a warm welcome---Justin, you're both around the same age, I'm sure you can show her around?” Said Gregory.

Justin Kirk, a young, handsome, and outgoing man, which was everything that Maxie Zeus wasn't, happily went to greet Vivian first with a shake of a hand and said, “Leave it to me, we young folk gotta stick together.”

Vivian laughed, it was perfect in Maxie's opinion. The right kind of laugh for a woman. Soft, melodic, not the kind that reminds him of harpies and crones. “I guess so. I'm just glad to find someone here who might know my pop culture reference.”

“You watched Star Wars?”

Vivian winced, “Can't say I have.”

“Lord of the Rings?”

“Yes.”

Justin hummed for a moment in thought. “What are your thoughts on the Beatles?”

Vivian smirked. “I grew up in Liverpool.”

“Football team?”

“Manchester,” she gave him a quizzical look. 

Justine grinned. “We'll get along just fine. Welcome to GU.”

“Thanks, it's great to be back here, actually.”

To explain, Gregory informed everyone that Vivian was a student of Gotham University when studying for her Bachelors degree, then she took her Masters as a scholar in Italy, supported by her mentor there, Sebastian Rossi and then back at Gotham again in GU where she was mentored by the current Dean of their college. Many were in awe to know about her background, especially when Vivian turns out to be just in her twenties. 

Vivian was given the desk beside Kirk, which was a desk in front of him. So it was him, then Marge's desk, then Vivian's. It wasn't the most ideal but it gave Maxie the chance to see her every day, even if it was just her red hair.

Stop.

He should stop this.

He's married.

He has a daughter.

He has a happy family.

No sarcasm there. They really were happy!

But then again, what's so bad with an office crush, right? It's not really cheating if he just admires a young and beautiful woman from afar, right?

Right… He'll just keep telling himself that.

And he does keep telling himself that for the future that comes as he would often look across his and Marge’s table to see Vivian Pryor, or come to the office a little early so he could be one of the first few to greet her good morning. Always just a greeting and never a conversation. He has no reason to talk to her anyway, they have different interests aside from their work, and it looks like Justin Kirk also has interest in her and he has a better shot with her too.

Until Vivian came to his table to talk to him.

“Is that your daughter?” Her voice startled him. Turning, he saw Vivian standing there in her iconic tweed jacket, and earth tone clothes – today she opted to wear a blouse and skirt than her usual trousers — and boots. Her hair was pulled to a low bun being held by a pencil. A sharp pencil, he observed.

“Yes,” Maxie found his voice again. “Yes, she is.”

“What's her name?”

“Medea.”

A smile krept to her face. “A bold choice, but I can see in her eyes that she is as strong as her namesake.”

Maxie chuckled. “Yeah, she's — she's headstrong. I just hope she doesn't do whatever Medea did with Jason and their children.”

“Women's wrath,” Vivian shrugged. “You have a beautiful family, Professor Zeus. Your wife is so beautiful too.”

“Thank you, I'll make sure to tell her.”

Great, even she sees that this little crush is wrong.

“Anything I can do for you, Professor Pryor?” Maxie asked.

“Vivian's fine. And yes, I was going to ask for the keys to the storage. I wanted to borrow the Overhead projector to show something to my class, and they said that you are the master of keys to all our department's assets.”

“Right, right, um…” Zeus got up from his desk. “Well, I'm not really the master of keys, but I just—I fixed the system with it. Here.” He brought her to the wall where the key holders were, each key hung with a label on its loop, and at the side was a form that had names, signatures, details, and time. “Um, just write your name here, the time you took the key, the item you borrowed, and the time you returned the key and item. Do you need any help with getting the projector to your class?”

“No, I got it, but thanks,” Vivian smiled at him and went to sign on the form then took the key. “I'll make sure to remember where I took it from. Thanks again, Professor Zeus.”

“No problem, Professor Pryor.”

That was the first conversation he had with Vivian. A simple on but it meant a lot to him too, and it stuck with him until his downfall.

~*~

Vivian's career was skyrocketing with her research getting published. Many academic publishers bid on her work but only one got it with the best offer. A year working in academia as a professor in Gotham University, she is now getting what every scholar dreams of: getting their works published and recognized. They were all invited to her book launch, and were one of the first few to get a copy of her book too. Everything was going so well for her with the money she was getting from her books, the recognition, publicity, and offers for her studies.

Then it happened. 

During her book launch, a murder took place. Her agent was killed and hanged for display in the middle of her talk, and a knife was thrown at her direction. If it hadn’t been for billionaire-playboy, Bruce Wayne, Vivian would have been dead.

The case went on for weeks. Vivian was placed under police protection, which meant she can’t go to work. She was just stuck in whatever place they chucked her in. Then, a miracle happened.

Rather, the Bat happened.

The next day, they saw an article about Batman and Professor Vivian Pryor stopping Blackfire’s cult. The cult ran by Deacon Blackfire believed bathing in the blood of humans would make them immortal, and for some reason, they wanted Vivian to be the sacrifice for their ritual that night, and to get to her, they scared her to hide until they could find her in one place. But it was the other way around, it was Vivian and the Bat who found them in their catacombs.

The second take of her book launch took place in Wayne Tower, and based on rumors, Wayne paid for everything as well. As a way to thank her as Vivian would be giving half of the revenue she’s getting to the Wayne Foundation to help Gotham City.

“They look a little cozy,” Marge whispered to their little group as they watched Vivian and Bruce Wayne talk at the corner. Smiles never disappearing.

Justin scoffed. “Please, Wayne’s just trying to get into her pants. We all know his M.O.”

“I don’t know, that looks like a man who isn’t just after that,” Gregory laughed. “It would be interesting if that happens, right?”

“It’s just a one-night stand and Wayne is going to forget about Via,” said Justin.

“Oh, don’t be like that, Justin,” Katherine told him. “Maybe it’s just Wayne socializing.”

“It better be.”

Maxie agrees.

But that wasn’t the case. The next day, they learned that Vivian was asked out on a date by Bruce Wayne, but an emergency happened that cancelled it, then a couple of days later, Wayne personally went to GU to ask her out again. They went dancing that Friday, and the next school day, Vivian told Marge and Katherine what they did and what surprised him and Justin was that Wayne and her didn’t have sex, and that Wayne wanted to see her again.

Then it happened, Bruce Wayne became a reoccurring face in GU, and whenever he was there, it was always for Vivian. 

It was official. Bruce Wayne and Vivian Pryor were dating.

It seems, like Dionysus, while the god had Aphrodite as a wife, it was Ares who won the goddess’ heart and love.

~*~

It always starts with death. 

The madness  came when his wife died. It was a robbery gone wrong, said the GCPD. The thieves thought no one was at home, but then they saw his wife and they shot her, took what they could and ran. Medea Zeus was in her room that time, asleep, and when she woke up she saw her mother’s body on the ground in a pool of blood.

It was from that tragedy, that grief that made the mild man, Maximilian Zeus, to start these delusions of him being the very mythological god he teaches to his students. He was Zeus.

~*~

“I can’t believe it,” Vivian said as she looked at the Bat Computer's monitor that had the photo of Zeus with his gang. “How –”

“We both know how,” Batman muttered. “I’m sorry, Viv.”

Vivian sat on the chair beside Bruce’s and massaged her temples to try and grasp what she was seeing. A couple of days ago, Batman was dealing with a case from Commissioner Gordon about a new crime lord that’s rising in Gotham by the name of Zeus. At first Vivian shrugged it off, believing it was just some Greek mythology fanatic, it was best she doesn’t meddle with Batman’s cases and focus on her own work and with Dick, who was still undergoing training before he could wear the mask and cape.

But now…

“Do you remember the last time you saw him?” Bruce asked her.

“Yeah, it was at his wife’s funeral. We all went there to give our condolences and to see how Medea was. She saw her mother’s body that night and was the one who called 911.”

Batman’s jaw clenched in anger at the thought of another child witnessing another tragedy.

“How is she? The girl?”’

“She wasn’t talking then, Max said she hasn’t talked since calling 911,” Vivian sighed. “After that, Max went on a bereavement leave and extended it for a couple of more weeks, then we never heard from him since. Some say he left Gotham with his daughter, too distraught to go through the proper paperwork to resign and leave that he just did.”

“No communication since then?”

“No. I can’t ever imagine him becoming a crime lord — Max was this timid and mild man who adores his wife and daughter, and he wouldn’t hurt a fly! He even tends to the university garden.”

Bruce doesn’t really remember Maximillian Zeus that much, the man was the person who would blend in the background of a photograph, and he would notice him whenever Vivian points at his direction. He remembers her calling him the Master of Keys in their department because the man fixed their chaotic key holder and other assets too.

“Bruce, I don’t meddle in your affairs as Batman, but…” Vivian took his hand, holding it tight. “Not too harsh. He’s a good man who – I think – spiraled after the death of his wife. He needs help.”

“I promise, Vivian,” Bruce said to her. “I’ll make sure to deal with Zeus without inflicting harm.”

“But if push comes to shove… if you need to, then do so. I want you back here, okay, Batman?”

This time he smiled, pulling down his cowl, he leaned down and kissed her forehead. “Yes, Ma’am.”

~*~

She was walking to the bus station when it happened. The sun was just about to set, there were many bystanders, and traffic seems to be on her side, which was why when they came, Vivian was caught off guard. It was a black sedan that parked right in front of her at the bus stop, and before she could even react after realizing the traffic light wasn’t red, the door opened and a taser shocked her to unconsciousness.

In the middle of the day, she was kidnapped with a simple taser to knock her out. 

Gotham City, everyone. 

Waking up, Vivian was met by silk sheets and a soft bed, but she knew that this wasn’t Wayne Manor. It didn’t have the smell of the place nor the comfort it brings her. She knew Bruce’s bed intimately to know that this wasn’t it too. So where was she?

It was a lavish looking room – she’ll admit it – with a bed decorated with a large clam as its grame, the walls were marble white with Greek pillars to support the structure. Where the fuck was she? And what happened to her clothes? She was no longer wearing her blouse and trousers, nor her jacket and shoes, all she was wearing was a chiton with her hair tangled with ornaments – gold. 

“Ah, Aphrodite!” The door opened.

“Max?” Vivian gasped.

“Goddess of beauty, how are you?” Max approached her but Vivian immediately jumped out of the bed to get away from him. “My love!”

Nothing about this felt right. This wasn’t the Max she knew, Maximillian Zeus wouldn’t talk like that, nor would he walk around wearing a peplos and himation. And he would wear underwear too!

“Max – Professor Zeus — ”

“Yes, it is I, Zeus! God of Thunder! King of Olympus!”

“No…” Vivian whispered. “No,” she said firmly. “You are Professor Maximillian Zeus — you teach history and classics in Gotham University! You had a wife –”

“Yes,” he said sadly. “Hera's passing has weakened Olympus.”

Vivian looked at in in disbelief. He can't possibly –

“That is why for the sake of Olympus and my daughter, the Princess Medea, I am in need of a new wife.”

The way he looked at her brought a chill down Vivian's spine. 

“No,” Vivian said. 

“But you will. And you must, for Olympus and Princess Medea –”

“Where is Medea?!” Vivian exclaimed, worried for the girl. “Where is she, Max?”

He was silent for a time, looking at her, then he called for one of his men. The door opened and appeared a man holding a little girl's hand. Medea looked frightened but still did not speak. She trembled in fear with the man and with her Father who took her from him.

“Medea!” Vivian ran to her. The child pulled her hand from her father's grasp and wrapped her arms around Vivian. “It's okay, it's going to be okay.”

Medea hid her face at Vivian's clothes and held her tight.

“I'll get us out of here,” Vivian whispered.

“My love, do you really think I do not know of you?” Zeus spoke, with a smirk. “You may be Aphrodite but I know that you are a child of the Hecate. The goddess of magic and sorcery. My studies have helped me in building this fortress, it is protect by a seal that prevents magic users to escape from it. You are bound here with me, my love.”

Vivian's hold on Medea tightened and she hid the girl behind her. “Professor, please, stop this. You're scaring your daughter. Is this how you want Medea to remember you?”

“She is a Princess of Olympus, she must learn the ways if she wishes to take the throne some day. If not, then our children will.”

Vivian glared at him. “Like hell that would happen.”

“We shall see, my love,” Zeus walked up to her and grabbed Vivian by her cheeks, forcing her to look at him. “One way or another, you will give me sons to create an army.”

Vivian spat at him, and with it Zeus backhanded her, sending her to the ground with Medea holding her. Protecting her from her father. 

No more, was what the child wanted to say. Please, stop this.

Zeus only looked at them for a moment and then left.

Getting up, Vivian flexed her jaw to check if it was broken, then she tried to use her magic. Zeus wasn't bluffing, she can't use magic. If it was his delusion that had him stumble upon this, then he was damn lucky. But for her and Medea, all they can do was wait – either for the right time to strike and escape or for Batman to save them.

~*~

Angry was an understatement. Batman, Bruce Wayne, was livid to know what happened to Vivian. For days, he's been looking for her after learning from Alfred and Dick that Vivian never got to the Manor nor has she called either of them. He searched Gotham for her, questioning every enemy he has faced, showing them that he wasn't fucking around. No one touches Vivian Pryor. Else they get the Bat.

Then one key witness, a bystander, said to Batman that they saw Vivian get tased and tossed in a car with a customized plate: PEGASUS. He didn't need to go to the registry nor the computer to figure out who has Vivian. He went straight to Zeus’ New Olympus.

Climbing the tower, battling every one of Zeus’ henchmen, Batman made it to the very top of the penthouse where Zeus resides and is holding Vivian and Medea hostage. Upon entering the floor, he was met by a Greek-styled suite that resembles Olympus from those picture books, then sitting on his elevated throne was Maximillian Zeus himself, looking tall and strong. Then at his side, sitting at a much smaller throne was Vivian, who was chained to her throne with Medea clinging to her like a babe clings to her mother.

“Batman!” Vivian got up with Medea but she couldn't take a step with the chain around her ankle.

“Viv,” Batman whispered, relieved to see her alright, but that relief disappeared when he saw the bruise on her cheek and the cut on her lip. Turning to Zeus, Batman growled, “You touched her.”

“She is my wife. My property, I do as I please,” said Zeus.

That struck a nerve.

“You better choose your words carefully, Zeus,” Batman sneered. “She is not your wife. She is your hostage. I'll ask you once, and handle this carefully out of respect for Professor Pryor's wishes. Let them go and surrender.”

Zeus laughed, his laughter booming in the suite, then he exclaimed: “You dare tell me, a king – a god – what to do? You are nothing! I am your King!”

“You are no king, nor will you ever be a king of mine. I'll ask one last time: let them go and surrender, Zeus.”

Zeus got up from his throne, bringing with him his thunderbolt – a technology he stole from one of the warehouses he raided – and unclasped the clip of his peplos, leaving him shirtless as he faced the Dark Knight.

“You have always envied my position, Hades,” Zeus sneered at Batman.

Inaccurate and very much untrue for both the mythology and for Bruce Wayne. If she wasn't a hostage with a child, Vivian would have laughed at the irony of what he said, but that wasn’t the case. 

“Do you really think I will simply let you take my wife and child, my kingdom, Hades?”

Batman sighed. “I'm sorry, Viv. But he hurt you.” 

Reaching for his cape, he discarded the thing and threw it across the room, leaving him with his uniform, cowl, and utility belt. 

“I’m not leaving without Vivian,” Bruce declared.

“Then this is a battle for her hand. Beat me and you shall have – oof!” 

Before Zeus could finish, Batman punched him across the face, and kneed him at the stomach. 

Vivian hid Medea from the sight of her father getting beaten up. Getting up from the throne, Vivian circled the thing as far as she could and hid behind it with Medea with her. Placing the child down, Vivian told her to stay put while they looked for a way to get out of there. If only she could erase the seal that Zeus that traps her magic, she’s seen the marks while captive and have tried to erase the thing but Zeus have intervened and used force to keep her from doing so. He hasn’t done anything drastic, as forcing himself to her, but he has hit her a couple of times, hence the bruise on her cheek, the black eye, and the cut on her lip.

“Professor,” Medea spoke the for the first time. 

“Yes, Medea?” Vivian sighed in relief when the child spoke. 

The girl held up her palms, showing the red ink on them. Was that blood?

“Medea! Where did you get that?!” Vivian held the girl’s hands. How did she not notice them?

“Daddy said you have magic. I promise not to tell… please bring back my Daddy,” Medea sobbed.

That wasn’t blood.

Those were the marks Zeus used to seal her magic.

Vivian held the girl’s hands and lets her magic flow through her magic once again. 

“I will. Stay here, okay?”

Medea nodded.

Removing the cloak around her, Vivian wrapped it around the girl and stood from the ground and walked towards the sight of Batman battling Zeus. While Bruce was exceptional, Zeus had his thunderbolt. 

“Kaerb eht niahc.”

The sound of her voice casting a spell distracted Bruce for a moment. Turning to the direction of the throne, he felt the change in the winds, the shift of power. Vivian’s magic was back, and he couldn’t help but smile at the sight of her glowing gold eyes, and the magic exhuming from her body.

“Aphrodite, wife! What have you done?!” Zeus exclaimed. “You let the three-faced goddess take you!”

Vivian held her palm towards Zeus. A force lifted the man from the ground and forced him to drop the bolt to the ground. With her magic, Vivian flew from the ground and hovered over Zeus, her glare never faltering and the glow in her eyes intensifying. 

“My love, have mercy! It is I, your husband!” Zeus exclaimed.

“Enough!” Vivian spoke, her voice laced with layers of voices that Bruce haven’t heard. “If you truly love me, Zeus, then surrender. Free me and Medea, and surrender.”

“A king never surrenders!”

Vivian frowned. “Then I am sorry, Professor Zeus,” her voice returned to the same voice that Bruce knew all too well. Placing a finger on Zeus’ forehead, she cast a spell: “Peels, sueZ.”

The man’s eyes fluttered, trying to fight the spell, but he eventually fell asleep and slumped against the force that held him in the air. With Zeus knocked out, Vivian got them down and settled the man down at the ground, kicking the bolt away from him.

“Vivian,” Bruce went to her side, holding her arms to see how she was. Aside from the bruises on her face and her arms where Zeus must have grabbed her, she was alright. Seeing them, Bruce pressed his forehead against hers and whispered, “I am so sorry for taking this long.”

“It’s okay… I’m sorry for not escaping sooner. He had a circle that kept me from using my magic, my love.” Vivian whispered. “Medea!” She realized.

“The girl,” Bruce agreed.

Pulling away, Vivian and Bruce ran to the throne where she left the girl. Still hiding behind it, they saw the girl hiding under the cloak that Vivian used to wrap around her. Scooping her into her arms, Vivian carried Medea and pulled back the hood. 

“It’s over now, Medea,” Vivian told her.

“Is Daddy…” Medea trailed off, her eyes on her knocked out father.

“He’s just sleeping.”

“Okay… I want to go home now, Professor Pryor,” Medea muttered.

“We’ll get you out of here and get you somewhere safe,” Batman told her and offered to take the girl from Vivian.

“He’s a friend,” Vivian told her when Medea showed hesitation.

Seeing that Vivian trusted Batman, Medea held out her arms to Batman, letting him carry her. 

“Everything alright now, Medea. I promise,” Batman swore.

~*~

Harvey Bullock came to the crime scene to apprehend Zeus after getting a call from Vivian Pryor about it. But when they arrived, Vivian Pryor and the girl, Medea Zeus, were missing, and all that was Zeus and his henchmen tied up with a note stuck on Zeus saying he needs to go to Arkham not a jail.

Unknowing to Bullock, Batman and Vivian were at the roof of a building across where Zeus made his New Olympus, with them was Medea who held onto Batman, not wanting to fall off a great height. 

“Will they take Daddy?” Medea asked.

“They’ll take him somewhere that would help him,” said Vivian. “Let’s go, we can leave her with Commissioner Gordon.”

Batman agreed. “You both will be safe with Gordon. He’ll inform Wayne about this as well.” As they prepared to use Batman’s grappling and Vivian to fly using her magic, he adjusted his hold on Medea so she would be secure in his arms. 

“Do you want to fly?” Batman asked the girl when she hid her face at the crook of his neck.

Medea looked up to him and nodded. 

“Then keep your eyes open, this is just like flying,” Batman smiled at her.

Firing his grappling, Batman jumped down and swung down, building to building with Vivian flying beside him. In his arms the girl, Medea, smiled for the first time since seeing her mother’s body in their home.

~*~

“Viv, how are you?” Justin was the first to greet her as she entered the faculty office with a still bruised cheek. “Shit, I can’t believe Maxie would do this.”

“Me neither,” Vivian sighed. “But it’s okay now. Medea is now will be staying with her grandparents, and Zeus will be sent to Arkham to be rehabilitated.”

Days after the incident, Vivian was given paid-offs to rest after the whole ordeal. Her boss told her to stay at home for at least two weeks, that kidnapping was nothing to take lightly, and while Bruce agrees, Vivian was adamant in going back to work. Hence, her presence at the faculty office.

“You really should stay at home, Via,” said Katherine.

“I told her the same thing, maybe you could convince her,” Bruce appeared at the door of their faculty office.

“Mr. Wayne!” One of the professors gasped.

Vivian sighed. “Bruce, please.”

“You left this in the car,” he held up her packed lunch. “Alfred’s famous soup and sandwiches.”

Smiling, she got on her toes and kissed his cheek. “Thank you, my love. And thank you, Alfred. But I am ready to go back to work. I promise!”

Bruce sighed. “I’ll pick you up after work.” He then turned to her colleagues and said, “Please make sure she doesn’t escape to take the bus home.”

Katherine and Marge giggled and said: “We’ll do our best.”

The sound of her huffing had Bruce turn to Vivian and saw her pouting. Taking her hand, he pulled her out of the faculty office, earning teasing cheers from the others, and brought her to a dark hallway where he had her caged against the wall.

“Bruce,” she began.

“I just want you safe,” he said.

“I know,” Vivian cupped his face and got on her toes to kiss him. “Thank you, Batman.”

Wrapping his arms around her, Bruce kissed her deeply and didn’t want to let go if it were not for the sound of students about to pass by them. 

“Do you think he’ll be okay?” Vivian asked.

“We can only hope from here on,” Bruce said to him. “I sent a gift to Medea earlier, she might get it by tomorrow. Hopefully, her experience with her father doesn’t create a hatred towards Greek mythology.”

Vivian smiled and said, “I’m sure that won’t be the case… now, go to work! Wayne Enterprise won’t run by itself!”

“I will, but just one last,” he kissed her again. “Viv.”

“Yes?”

“Are you willing to wait for me?”

“What?” she laughed.

“It might take a while but will you wait for the day I have a ring and get down on one knee?”

Vivian laughed. “Bruce, come on! We just got back a couple of months ago, don’t you think it’s too early to ask?”

“I guess,” Bruce kissed her again. While she laughed it off now, Bruce knew then and there that this was the woman he wants to spend the rest of his life with and he wasn’t going to let her go. Not even if it meant battling gods.

[fangirlingpuggle]

For EPIC au: I’ve just seen what someone asked, and just imagine during “Hold Them Down” Odysseus and the other gods overhear this, Ares is immediately held back because screw hospitality rules, no one decides to try and do the icky to Telemachus. And this is before Odysseus reveals himself, he is just going crazy now, because he is remembering the Troy war and it’s going all Helen of Troy again and he immediately is a no to that. Wait, what if his crew is watching from underworld and they know it’s Aphrodite’s fault, intentionally or not, they’re making bets how long Odysseus finds, also made bets if Penelope finds out first and who she’s killing first, the suitors or Aphrodite, there is also another set of bets if both parents find out together and go ham on either Aphrodite or the Suitors. Also, imagine Antinous in this, dear god, it’s going to be a plan to try and kidnap Telemachus or something, or do the icky with him. Go crazy on my ask, I often like it when you go into detail, it’s really fun.

I don't think we'd even get to hold them down, Ares is full on drop kicking any suitor who gets to close away, or looks at Telemachus wrong. 1)Because of Trojan 2) Because that's Penelope's kid and she's his favorite and 3) If Penelope or Odysseus find out Aphrodite is beyond dead. Telemachus isn't sure whats happening.

Poseidon manages to pull himself up to Olympus sees them all in full panic mode with Hephaestus literally sealing all the doors shut while Zeus is trying to call Hades to ask if he can crash with him and Persephone until whatever rampage Penelope and Odysseus wreck on Olympus is over (Because he's pretty sure if Penelope finds out about the choose and then stranding him with Calypso he will also e joining Aphrodite in the gods are going to die pile). Poseidon takes one look and quickly nopes out of whatever the fuck is happening.

Antinous being one of the suitors Aphrodite accidental makes fall in love and her being like 'I mean he was already way more obsessed with the prince... like thought about him waaayyy more than the queen.. also the tension it was like really easy' and she is trying very hard to rectify things while Ares holds Athena whose still very injured back from ripping her hair out.

God if it did get reverse of hold them down then it would be him planning to kill Penelope and Ares is suddenly like hold up wait... This is going to be hilarious Penelope is going to end him.

[lions-and-men-musical]

Full Song List From L&M (Dec14)

note: crossed out titles means the song is more likely to be cut OR that it needs to be reworked; *asterisks* means it is a placeholder title.

EPISODE 1: Sing, Muse

Rage - Cassandra

Greatness - Thetis, Achilles

The Sparta Penthouse - Menelaus, Helen, Agamemnon

Dancing With Devils - Paris, Hera, Aphrodite, Athena

EPISODE 2: *Pelion & The Penthouse*

Someday - Achilles, Patroclus

Lie (Someday Pt2) - Menelaus, Helen

(Try To) Hold Me Down - Chiron, Achilles, Patroklos

Kiss & Tell - Helen, Paris, Aphrodite

EPISODE 3: The Ringing Wargong

Born For This - Major Achaean Soldiers; Agamemnon, Artemis

*Skyros Party!* - Deidamia, Achilles

Fight For Me - Ares, Athena, Aphrodite

The Weapon (Preprise) - Achilles, Deidamia, Patroklos

I Run This City - Helen, Paris (this song specifically needs a large rework but I still want to keep it in)

EPISODE 4: Man-Made Machines

Choose Your Fighter - Odysseus, Diomedes, G.Ajax, Nestor, Agamemnon, Menelaus

Just Drive - L.Ajax, Automedon, Teucer

The Shining Helm - Andromache, Paris, Aeneas, Troilus, Cassandra, Sarpedon

The Weapon - Achilles, Hector

EPISODE 5: In The Blood

Carry On - Odysseus, Achilles, Hector, Soldiers

Son of Tydeus - Diomedes, Athena, Ares, Aphrodite

You Bleed Like Me - Achilles, Patroklos

EPISODE 6: Battles & Brawls

Behemoth vs Brawler - Hector, G.Ajax

Terrible - Hector, Paris, Helen (I will NOT cut this but I might to move it to before “Son of Tydeus” to follow the actual timeline in the Iliad)

I Want The Best - Briseis, Achilles, Patroklos

The Council of Gods - Olympians (another song I’d have to move to fit the Iliad timeline. I think I’d rather cut it than move it but I could also just keep it)

EPISODE 7: Your Purpose

Knock-Knock - Cressida, Troilus

*The “Chryseis” Dilemma* - Agamemnon, Achilles

Purpose - Agamemnon, Hera

Eyes On Us - Apollo, Cassandra, Cressida

EPISODE 8: *Hold The Line*

Hold The Line - Major Achaean Soldiers

The Midnight Raid - Diomedes, Odysseus, Athena

*I’m Begging You* - Achilles, Nestor, Odysseus, Patroklos

Someone Worth Fighting For - Achilles, Patroklos, Hector, Andromache

EPISODE 9: Rage

Nothing Left To Lose - Achilles

Home - Briseis, Chiron, Thetis, Deidamia, Agamemnon, Nestor, Achilles

Let Me Bleed - Achilles, Briseis

No Oaths - Achilles, Hector

EPISODE 10: And So They Buried Us

Two Urns, One Half Empty - Achaean Soldiers, Trojans, Patroklos, Achilles

You Don’t Know - Paris, Achilles

Costs Too Great - L.Ajax, Agamemnon, Menelaus, Briseis

Retrieving the Palladium (Pokerface) - Helen, Odysseus, Diomedes

Choose Your Fighter (Reprise) - Deidamia, Neoptolemus

The Trojan Horse - so so so many people

Dirge - All

if anyone is curious about a specific song, please send an ask! I’m happy to talk about any

[kindred-spirit-93]

paris the musical!!

im officially losing what little marbles i had to begin with. anyway about half way through and i have initial thoughts :3

first off love the vibe its so funky and idk why i find it absolutely hilarious yet fitting. i want agamemnon to be break dancing while planning paris' murder

speaking of which, paris is so delulu its hysterical and im so here for it. i want to punch him he has that vibe

also the part where hes singing his heart out and having his disney princess moment while im assuming hector is yelling at him to get down is too funny

so far cassandra is my favourite, her vocals & melodies are the best so far imo i love her and need to draw her immediately

helen! is such a vibe and im kinda confused bc im listening to this without a. lyrics to follow, b. background knowledge on this adaptation, and c. while studying (not my brightest idea lol)

point is is she being influenced by aphrodite when she sings abt the 'perfect stranger'? shes totally in love with and happily married to menelaus right? and is being manipulated or am i reading it all wrong?? someone pls help :')

PATROCLUS BEING LIKE GUYS WAIT FOR MY BF LMAO very cute ngl, he gets a 9 for being a supportive 'friend' lol

business is now stuck in my head yay :')

will add more tomorrow hopefully as i continue lol. feel free to add thoughts and stuff in the meantime :)

[sarafangirlart]

Did Kaos even explain why the three humans “destined to destroy Zeus/the Gods” are specifically Eurydice, Caeneus and Ariadne? Because if they really wanted a “we hate the gods” story shouldn’t the chosen three be. severely wronged or abandoned by the gods / the fates?

Like Oedipus? Lamia? Cassandra? Daphne? Arachne? Callisto? Hell I’d even watch a smackdown of Clytemnestra vs Artemis or Menelaus and Helen vs Aphrodite any time then watch a whole other boring show following the same bad story tropes.

They don’t really explain it no, but I was so eager for it to be over I likely missed it, this show seems surprising hesitant to show the more gruesome side of mythology, if they adapted the story that Caeneus was raped by Poseidon and they show how angry and miserable he is about it I would’ve totally been on board, tho someone mentioned that considering the current social environment is especially hostile towards trans ppl nowadays, having someone transition after assault could be bad “pr” so to speak, tho I don’t think we should bend a knee to transphobes/terfs and make representation that’s more palatable and presentable, human experience is messy and we shouldn’t shy away from that in an attempt to make bigots less hostile towards minorities bc they will always be hostile.

If they show Eurydice being angry about Aristaeus not facing any consequences for trying to assault her I’d understand that too mythology Eurydice has zero beef with Hera, but she could feel resentment towards Aristaeus and by extension Apollo (since he’d likely defend his son), gods rarely face consequences for assaulting mortals, Euripides’s Ion tackles that subject way better than all of these “Gods bad” modern retelling (tho I wish Creusa didn’t forgive Apollo bc that mf didn’t even have the balls to show his face).

Instead of Ariadne, who usually gets a happy ending and becomes a goddess herself, how about going with Apemosyne? Another Cretan princess. Her story is extremely depressing, she’s screwed over by a god and her own family, considering that half the show takes place in the underworld she’d fit right in. Considering she’ll be “coworkers” with Hermes it would especially suck for her. But considering that Dionysus is made to be one of the “good ones” even tho in mythology he brainwashed women into slaughtering their families, they’d probably portray Hermes as such too, since he’s usually simply the comic relief in adaptations anyway.

That’s another thing, they water down the gods who are supposed to be good guys and make the “bad guy” worse, in this version Hades never kidnapped Persephone that’s just propaganda in universe. The Fates and Furies are goddesses but in this show they’re against the gods bc of that meander water thing? Don’t they drink it too?

I think they realized that their hesitancy means that they won’t be showing us bad things the gods actually did and so they make up random bullshit like Hera owning tongueless priestesses and Zeus killing a kitten. Cassandra is in the show but she’s more of an exposition machine tho it’s hinted she’ll play a bigger role in season 2, but why couldn’t she be one of the three humans destined to destroy Zeus? Why aren’t any of the Trojans destined to destroy Zeus? Why do they have to be saved by Greeks? Sure Zeus in mythology had a soft spot for them but he still planned the destruction of their city (could be a decent metaphor for an abuser who says that they love their victim while still abusing them imo) but Kaos Zeus doesn’t have that goodwill towards the Trojans so why not have them rightfully take him down? In the final episode Andromache and Ariadne team up and agree to fight against Olympus, tho that reminds me of Acrisius in the Clash of the Titans remake being more of a dumb dumb than he is in the myths and started a war against Mount Olympus only to unsurprisingly fail.

I really dislike how the Trojans are portrayed in the show, clearly they are supposed to be allegory for modern middle eastern refugees in Europe yet all the main Trojan characters are played by white actors. They have such a racially diverse cast but they seem uninterested in actually representing the diversity of the Mediterranean and mythology as a whole.

[dootznbootz]

Me: Almost done listening to the Iliad on audiobook, and planning to listen to the Odyssey next

Me: Goes on youtube to find a quick summary to listen to before hand

Me: Clicks on a promising video

Video, in the first 30 seconds: Haha he cheats on his wife!

Me, in a bad mood now, even though I should have seen that coming: Never-fucking-mind, then

Yep. ;~;

Quick tip for ya: Honestly don't trust really ANY "Youtube" summary of it. Especially the ones where they are mostly trying to be "entertaining" and/or "funny" instead of educational. Also they mostly likely won't be "respectful".

I'm not saying this as a "don't trust any academic source! Historians are evil!!!" I'm saying this as a "there are very biased and very opinionated folks out there and I recommend going over multiple sources just for you to get your own opinion formed on it as well!".

I mean...Madeline Miller?

And you know what? I'll vent about how much I hate Robert Graves' takes on Greek Myth. >:(

I once got an old used book about mythology by Robert Graves and I was excited to read it! But it was genuinely just...so fucking MEAN. Insulting to stories, calling them stupid, flip-flopping on "Goodhearted" to "malicious". It seems like he was a bit more of a critic and/or thought his "headcanons" as "fact". (I say this as someone who has many headcanons and gets real silly with it. At a certain point though, YOU GOTTA STATE THE FACTSSS)

An example from it: (talking about Menelaus and Helen's marriage) "Yet their marriage was doomed to failure: years before, while sacrificing to the gods, Tyndareus had stupidly overlooked Aphrodite, who took her revenge by swearing to make all three of his daughters--Clytemnestra, Timandra, and Helen--notorious for their adultries"

Very much dislikes Odysseus, (like holy crap, even his good deeds are said mockingly) while he seems to "like" Menelaus, still calls him stupid. Seems to really like Paris?? like "Oh yeah, he needed Aphrodite to help him steal a woman who didn't love him but he's just a guyyy~"

"Athen now inspired Prylis, son of Hermes, to suggest that entry should be gained into Troy by means of a wooden horse; Epeius, son of Panopeus, a Phocian from Parnassus, volunteered to build one under Athene's supervision. Afterwards, of course, Odysseus claimed all the credit for the Stratagem"

He implies Helen and Odysseus possibly having romantics when he sneaks into Troy to steal the Palladium. Implies Odysseus made up Cassandra's rape by Lesser Ajax, as "Cassandra did not support the charge".

"Little Ajax's alleged violation of Cassandra was dismissed by reputable mythographers as an Odyssean lie"

Implies that Odysseus was only angry about Pallamedes embarrassing him, NOT BECAUSE HE NEARLY KILLED HIS BABY AND MADE HIM GO TO WAR. He implies "Icarius' daughter (Penelope)" to be another "victim" (???) of Odysseus? He also kissed poor Calypso goodbye and seems determined to never talk about how much Odysseus cares about his family. only that he wants to go home, Penelope being an afterthought.

This is a "Greek Mythology book"...and yet it's biased as fuck. :/

And ofc, people deny Odysseus being a victim.. Obviously there is sexism at play here, with the "Oh Odysseus loved it! He was getting laid!" despite being held at PigPoint and literally getting fucking raped and crying everyday. ;~; it's very disheartening and honestly disturbing.

Honestly I recommend reading/listening to at least 2 (or more) to try and get a "full picture" as just like Madeline Miller and Robert Graves, there are biases in each one. (Emily Wilson is very biased for example) Some of them while favorable toward Odysseus, also favor Circe and Calypso. Some mock Menelaus and Helen. It depends.

Like I've read 8 translations of the Odyssey (I like it :3 you don't have to be insane like me though. <3 ) and all basically say the same thing with the Goddesses as "It was not a good time. He adores Penelope."

Two or three is probably enough, and that's also if you just wanna know if there's any differences between events based on the translator. so sometimes if you wanna know the differences in wording (as some translations have very cute wording) you can just find that part in the Odyssey that you are curious to see if there are differences. :)

I hope you have fun!

[likethexan]

rate all the greek mytho married couples from most to least interesting (or your favorite to least favorite, depends on you!)

For fun I’ve split them into four categories:

The Really Interesting category, made their relationship everyone’s problem:

- Zeus and Hera (duh)

- Helen and Menelaus (happy ending)

- Helen and Paris (oof! ending)

- Odysseus and Penelope (has a whole word dedicated to their like-minded thinking)

- Rhea and Cronus (tragedy and cannibalism)

- Jason and Medea (tragedy and filicide)

- Clytemnestra and Agamemnon (tragedy and filicide and mariticide and matricide and misogyny and and OH gods-)

- Peleus and Thetis (the arranged mortal marriage blues, but in my head Thetis immortalized Peleus somehow by force and keeps him in her attic) (Because gods be damned if she will be the only one doomed to grieve Achilles)

- Orpheus and Eurydice (mf really went to hell for her and still didn’t get her back :<)

- Hector and Andromache (relatively the most normal ones in this category but still very tragic. Like don’t even ask.)

- Hecuba and Priam (them too)

The Really Cute couple category, bonus if it took them long to get there:

- Hephaestus and Aglaia

- Eros and Psyche

- Dionysus and Ariadne

- Perseus and Andromeda (they kinda remind me of Prince Philip and Aurora which is cute)

- Hebe and Heracles (listennn. they’re cute and important to the Heracles-Hera feud ending)

- Hippomenes and Atalanta (RIP Meleager)

- Philemon and Baucis (one of my fave Zeus myths)

- Alcestis and Admetus (Orpheus and Eurydice but with a happy ending thanks to the interference of Apollo)

- Iphis and Ianthe (trans man rep is good someone PLEASE write about them)

- Tethys and Oceanus (placing them here idc they are cute in my head!! The only titan couple who survived rip to Coeus/Phoebe and all the failed marriages thanks to the Titanomachy)

The Uhhh… Okay Category

- Hades and Persephone (placing them here because while I do think their relationship is interesting AND I find good various retellings of them (excluding LO) like Hades Supergiant, Hadestown, etc I long for more neutral/nuanced takes on the kidnapping, not just by their romance (or lack of romance) but Demeter’s role in the story to be more respected. (It also can’t be helped that HxP has the most over saturated greek mythology content everywhere that people get tired of seeing them, especially portrayed as the “only good greek myth couple” like okay get outta here)

- Gaia and Uranus (I like them, their relationship is clearly important for Cronus’ succession story, but their conflict to me seems so.. short lived? Like you have your son castrate your husband for imprisoning your less appealing babies but now the strife is gone and you work together to tell your son he is destined to be overthrown by his son and telling your grandson to cannibalize his wife as good advice??? Like good for them ig but Rhea and Cronus just do it better imo)

- Hypnos and Pasithea (getting ur wife from a deal with her mom that makes you commit treason by inducing your king with sleep… nothing sketchy about this at allll) (but maybe they’re cute and functional besides that who knows)

- Ceyx and Alcyone (in one version they didn’t do it, in the other they’re just… very dumb to call themselves Zeus and Hera.)

- Procris and Cephalus (eos RUINS lives)

- Hephaestus and Aphrodite (lets be glad it ended bc while they are interesting and Hephaestus did make their marital strife public, I just think they had a better relationship after the divorce)

The Kinda Boring category (to me, subjectively, put down the pitchforks)

- Poseidon and Amphitrite (do they have one myth together that isn’t the Delphin seduction myth… Amphitrite is nice to Poseidon’s worst son. That’s. That’s kinda it. I wish we had more, like how they are with their children or literally anything else to depict a dynamic between them. Especially since they ARE supposed to be the king and queen of the sea. But nope. At least with Oceanus and Tethys they’re both obscure in their personalities so headcanoning stuff is fun to me. Poseidon having a well established personality and Amphitrite… oh dear Amphitrite…)

- Cadmus and Harmonia (they’re a couple in order become ascendants of more tragic humans like Actaeon, Semele and that’s it. They become Snakes in the end to repent for Cadmus’ mistake. Nothing really about their relationship with each other)

- Deucalion and Pyrrha (The Greek rendition of Christianity’s Noah’s Ark and yeah. Thats it)

[melodyartist]

i wish we could see your designs of trojan characters like hector or paris— if you have them ofc

I previously did not make designs for the Trojan since I heavily rely on @attyhat's designs even for Cassandra and Priam, but since you ask this is how I imagine them... kinda? Because I like the vibes but they didn't come out that great.

I like the idea of Paris having his eyes constantly shut unless he has to use his "power of persuasion" Not only because characters with shut eyes are kind of devious and sly so that's perfect for someone like Paris but also because Aphrodite cursed blessed him and now whoever looks at him immediately feels charmed or falls in love like they are being hypnotized, so yeah that's what happened to Helen.

Bonus:(My)Paris annoying (Attyhat)Paris what a joy

[littlesparklight]

What do you think is Helens most important moment in the Iliad, characterisation wise?

Hmm!

I think it'd be her scene with Aphrodite, if it's possible to pick out a single one at all. It's got a little bit of everything, with the additional bonus of this being in front of someone Helen has no reason not to be honest/mask off with.

She pays for that, yes, but that's part of my reason to pick this scene; Helen still lashes out. This is Helen in the (end of the?) ninth year of the war, and this is Helen still full of fight (she is with Paris, too, which is a similar honesty to the one in Aphrodite's scene).

We've got; "and stirred Helen's heart in her breast;" I'm borrowing Murray's translation (on Perseus.tuft) instead of Butler's or Caroline Alexander's, because both of those insert "anger" in Helen's reaction. I am fully convinced by Kirk's argument in his commentary on the Iliad that it's not about anger; the phrase is formular, as he says, and everywhere else where it appears in full it merely incites the individual to action.

So, Helen and her [unspecified] reaction to Aphrodite's description of Paris, which is meant to be, as Helen herself says, to be "seductive". Allegory has this scene be Helen fighting against her own desires, with the desires winning. I don't like leaning into allegory so much as to remove the gods, but given Helen's initial reaction quoted up there, I feel what we have is a display of Helen's conflicted desire. She doesn't like Paris much any more, but he is still attractive to her and she wants him. (And in the end, desire wins, even if she's ashamed of that.)

"since now Menelaos has vanquished godlike Alexandros and desires that I, loathsome as I am, be taken home." (Alexander's translation) Everywhere else we see Helen self-blame or express a negative opinion of herself, it's in front of people where, even if she absolutely is earnest and honest about that self-blame, it gives her some sort of social capital; pity, sympathy, and ultimately Priam and Hektor's [continued] protection/friendship. With Aphrodite, however, there's no such advantage. Aphrodite has no reason to care - in fact, Helen debasing herself like this in front of her could probably even be counter-productive.

So, since I in general do view her self-blame and related emotions as genuine, this, to me, is the absolute proof of that. It's also a connection to her active language about how she left Sparta elsewhere (she uses "I went/walked/left/sailed"). She did something, acted, and she [now/since a while back/etc] considers that a fault of hers and something she did wrong. Another thread on Helen's past (and continued) desire for Paris.

(Also, peep the "godlike Alexandros" there - Menelaos uses this once of Paris as well when he talks about him. It's generic "godlike"; in Book 24 she uses theoeides, which focuses more on his looks specifically.)

"As for me, I will not go there - it would be shameful - to share the bed of that man. The Trojan women will all blame me afterwards;" (Alexander again) I've read an article (pretty sure it was Nancy Worman's Body As Argument), that suggests that this is a matter of "it would be shameful NOW", because this conversation is happening after Paris and Menelaos' duel, in which Menelaos (technically) won, and thus Helen (technically) now "belongs" to Menelaos again, and thus it would be shameful for her to once again go into the bed of someone not her husband. I like that interpretation, and have adopted it, but the point of this quote is the fact that Helen cares about how she's viewed.

She is so very (self-) conscious of how society, and in particular the women around her, view her. She goes to the wall, but veiled and with two attendant slave women; she here, now that Paris lost the duel, acknowledges that in this instance it would be shameful to frivolously go back - others will judge her. (Whether they actually would for this specific instance or not matters less.)

But again, for this quote and in general for this scene (as well as later, when her and Paris' scene ends; the epics can easily tell us about someone's willingness or lack of thereof, but there is no actual comment about that); Worman points out that at no point does Helen actually say she doesn't want Paris/doesn't want to go back.

It is "I will not [go back/sleep with him (now)]", which of course say something about her feelings, but which in particular? We have many options. Helen's desire/want is woven throughout this and can be separated from, maybe even contrasted against, what she feels she ought to do.

And then, in the end, Helen is cowed into going back, because Aphrodite gets angry. But is that anger because of Helen's refusal to go, or Helen's bold "you go and take care of him as a mortal woman might, until he makes you his wife or his slave"? This is such a massively insulting thing to say to a goddess, and the showcase of Helen's temper and spine is honestly breathtaking.

Helen is no meek thing. Not even in front of a goddess.

(Even if it's perfectly possible Helen is well aware of Aphrodite's favour/fondness of her, and therefore knows she can risk to lash out in this way and "merely" get threatened, not actually punished.) Helen claims as much agency and self-control/power as she can, even against herself and an actual goddess.

[oddyseye]

Ganymede wasn’t a kid in the Greek myths, and he wasn’t exactly raped either.

People who claim that have either messed up their sources or are just using stuff from the wrong time and place, like Roman myths. Like, sure, if you’re gonna reference Ovid or someone like Theognis (who’s about as reliable as a coin toss), you need to at least say you’re not using reliable sources for Greek mythology.

The Iliad and the Homeric Hymns both talk about Ganymede in a completely different light than what people want to claim. He’s an adult. Not a child. Not a helpless victim. He’s described as this beautiful young man whom Zeus falls for, and in the Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite, it’s explicitly stated that Ganymede is chosen because of his beauty. There’s no mention of him being taken against his will or in some predatory way. Just that Zeus was struck by his looks.

Homer's Iliad - 20.232: Τρώς, ὃς ἦν κύριος τῶν Τρώων, καὶ τῷ Τρώι ἐγένοντο τρεῖς ἄμεμπτοι υἱοὶ, Ἴλος (Ἴλος) καὶ Ἀσσαράκος (Ἀσσαράκος) καὶ θεῖος Γανυμήδης (Γανυμήδης, ὃς ἦν κάλλιστος ἐκ τῆς ἀνθρωπίνης γενεᾶς), καὶ διὰ τοῦτο οἱ θεοὶ ἔλαβον αὐτὸν πρὸς ἑαυτούς, ἵνα ᾖ οἰνοχόος Διός, διὰ τὸ κάλλος αὐτοῦ, ὅπως ᾖ ἐν τοῖς ἀθανάτοις. Translation by Lattimore: Tros, who was lord of the Trojans, and to Tros in turn there were born three sons unfaulted, Ilos (Ilus) and Assarakos (Assaracus) and godlike Ganymedes (Ganymede) who was the loveliest born of the race of mortals, and therefore the gods caught him away to themselves, to be Zeus' wine-pourer, for the sake of his beauty, so he might be among the immortals.

Homeric Hymn 5 to Aphrodite 203: Ἀληθῶς σοφὸς Ζεὺς ἔφερε τὸν χρυσόθρονον Γανυμήδην διὰ τὴν κάλλος, ἵνα ᾖ ἐν τοῖς ἀθανάτοις καὶ πόσῃ ποτόν τοῖς θεοῖς ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ τοῦ Διός--θαῦμα ὁρᾶν--, τιμώμενος ὑπὸ πάντων τῶν ἀθανάτων ὡς ἕλκων τὸν ἐρυθρὸν νέκταρ ἐκ τῆς χρυσῆς κούπης . . . ἀθάνατος καὶ ἀγήρως, ὥσπερ οἱ θεοί. Translation by Evelyn-White: Truly wise Zeus brought the golden-throned Ganymede because of his beauty, so that he might be among the immortals and serve drink to the gods in the house of Zeus--wonder to behold--honored by all the immortals as he draws the red nectar from the golden cup… immortal and ageless, just like the gods.

And then there’s Pindar, Olympian Ode 1.40, who describes Ganymede as someone taken by Zeus out of “love” for him, not some creepy predator fantasy. It’s love, and it’s a divine act. He was given a place among the gods. Again, no child, no rape, just a stunningly beautiful youth elevated to divinity.

Then you get Ovid, who’s working centuries after the Greek myths were already established.

Ovid, Metamorphoses 10. 152 ff (trans. Melville) (Roman epic C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.): "But now I need a lighter strain, to sing of boys beloved of gods and girls bewitched by lawless fires who paid the price of lust. The King of Heaven (Rex Superum) once was fired with love of Ganymedes Phrygius (the Phrygian), and something was devised that Juppiter [Zeus] would rather be than what he was. Yet no bird would he deign to be but one that had the power to bear his thunderbolts. At once his spurious pinions beat the breeze and off he swept Iliades [Ganymedes of Ilion]; who now, mixing the nectar, waits in heaven above, though Juno [Hera] frowns, and hands the cup to Jove."

Ovid, Metamorphoses 11. 756 ff: "His forebears were Ilus, Assaracus and Ganymede, Jove's [Zeus'] stolen lad, and old Laomedon."

Ovid, Heroides 16. 199 ff (trans. Showerman) (Roman poetry C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.): "[Paris addresses Helene :] ‘Do not disdain a Phrygian for your lord… A Phrygian, and born of our blood, was he [Ganymedes] who now is with the gods, and mingles water with the nectar for their drinking.’"

Ovid’s version is infinitely more romanticized and definitely not as grounded in the original Greek storytelling tradition. Zeus falling for Ganymede and whisking him away sounds more like a love story than an assault. And even in the context of Roman literature, it’s more about divine favor than some tragic kidnapping. Not the same thing.

Ibycus, Fragment 289 (from Scholiast on Apollonius of Rhodes) (trans. Campbell, Vol. Greek Lyric III) (Greek lyric C6th B.C.): "In these lines Apollonios (Apollonius) takes over what Ibykos (Ibycus) said in his account of the rape of Ganymede [that he was carried off by a love-smitten Zeus] in his song to Gorgias."

Theognis, Fragment 1. 1345 (trans. Gerber, Vol. Greek Elegiac) (Greek elegy C6th B.C.): "There is some pleasure in loving a youth, since once in fact even [Zeus] the son of Kronos (Cronus), king of the immortals, fell in love with Ganymedes (Ganymede), seized him, carried him off to Olympos (Olympus), and made him divine, keeping the lovely bloom of boyhood."

Theognis and Ibycus wrote in the 6th century BC, and they were poets, not mythographers. They were interested in beauty, moral themes, and a lot of their work wasn’t about strict record-keeping or establishing canon.

Homer, on the other hand, wrote in the 8th century BC, and his epics are foundational texts. Homer is one of the first sources we have of the Ganymede myth, and there’s no explicit mention of Zeus’ rape of Ganymede. And the language used is much more neutral or ambiguous about their relationship — Ganymede is taken to Olympus, and Zeus makes him his cupbearer. The phrasing does not emphasize violence or forced affection.

Ibycus was a lyric poet, not a historian, and his work is overwhelmingly fragmented. What we have is mostly secondhand through later sources, which already makes him weak as a primary reference. And the passage about Ganymede is literally cited by a scholiast on Apollonius of Rhodes. That’s layers of separation from anything even remotely reliable. It’s not like we have a full, intact poem from Ibycus detailing the myth, we just have an offhand reference from someone quoting someone else. That’s…not solid evidence. At all.

Theognis is even worse! The guy wrote didactic elegy. If you don’t know what that is, it’s basically moralizing poetry that served his personal aristocratic agenda. He wasn’t trying to preserve myth so much as he was using it to justify his social values, especially his obsession with male youth and beauty.

If someone’s citing only Ibycus and Theognis, I already know they’re pushing a specific interpretation because the stronger sources don’t support them. Those two aren’t foundational to the myth. They’re deviations.

And then there’s Lucian (a satirist from Rome, guys), who called Ganymede a child. Do I really need to explain why that’s not a mythological source? It’s satire and it is Roman. It’s like taking a joke seriously. It’s just not how myth should be treated. Same goes for Statius, who follows the same flawed logic of Ganymede being a child and forcibly taken. No, honey, not in the myth.

Now, let’s talk about Nonnus, the 5th-century AD writer, who at least is a Greek (so credit where it’s due). But let’s be clear: He’s still late enough that I’d raise an eyebrow at everything he writes, especially when he’s calling Zeus’ act with Ganymede “tender” and “anxious.” Like, okay, sure, but we’re still talking about a source that’s centuries after the actual Greek myth, so it’s already a reinterpretation. But hey, still no mention of children or rape here.

And lastly, a little gem that really gets me: People love to argue that Ganymede was referred to as “Catamitus,” but that’s just a Latin version of his name from Apuleius, who was Roman. That word didn’t even carry the sexual connotation people want to attach to it until modern times. It’s a completely different context. And don’t even get me started on how people misuse this. They’re literally reading a word wrong to support a narrative that wasn’t there in the first place.

So, listen, if you want to talk about Ganymede, fine. But if you’re gonna bring up these sources, at least be honest about what they are. They’re Roman reinterpretations, lyric poetry, moralizing elegy, satire, and the occasional fragment of a not-so-reliable source.

If you want the closest thing to the original myth? Start with Homer, the Homeric Hymns, and mythographers like Apollodorus, and work your way from there.

This myth? No, Ganymede wasn’t a child, and he wasn’t raped. He was a beautiful youth, elevated by the gods for his looks, to serve at the divine table. Period.

[gotstabbedbyapen]

What are your top ten Greek Mythology headcanons?

Ooooh I have a lot of Greek mythology headcanons, so it took me a while to select the top ten 😅 But I've finally done it!

Here is the final list:

10. There is an Eurotas River "tradition" for all the couples in the Spartan royal family.

I like to think it's "tradition" for all members of the Spartan royal family to find the love of their lives at the Eurotas River (Lacedaemon & Sparta, Amyclas & Diomede, Hyacinthus & Apollo, Helen & Menelaus, etc.)

The idea came to me because of the role and presence of this river in Apollo and Hyacinthus' myth (Ovid's version) and Menelaus and Helen's story (Euripides' play). HyaPollo had frequent river dates and MeLen swore fidelity with one another by the same river, so it's fun to think that the other Spartan couples also meet and spend their time together here.

9. Persephone is everyone's childhood friend.

This is also true in the mythos! Persephone grew up with Athena and Artemis in Sicily, her domains overlapped with her other siblings, the Homeric hymn to Demeter has a list of her nymph friends, and every once in a while someone is said to be Persephone's playmate.

She's a true social butterfly lol

8. The second generation Olympians also share traits with their grandparents.

I love to think that the younger Olympians inherit something from their Titan grandparents, you know? Here are some of the ideas:

Ares is loving and protective over his children like Rhea.

Persephone is intimidating and wield her scythe like Kronos.

Hermes is crafty and cunning like his great-grandfather Iapetus.

Apollo has Coeus' deep, intelligent gaze and Artemis has Phoebe's radiant smile.

Athena is unconsciously attracted to the ocean, the kingdom of Oceanus and Tethys.

7. All of Zeus' children, mortal or immortal, inherit his fury.

They can be calm like Apollo or have anger issues like Heracles, but once a child of Zeus get really pissed off, their act of wrath can be as destructive as their father's.

This explains why Artemis shot down Coronis and her family and Persephone inflicted a plague on Thebes.

6. The second generation Olympians (plus Persephone and Aphrodite) love each other in their own ways.

I really dislike depictions of Olympian siblings always at each other's throat. Yes, their history is complicated and dynamics aren't perfect but that doesn't mean they only have bad tension! Where is the nuance in their relationship???

Artemis and Apollo have seen the worst of one another and ridiculed each other for that. But if someone were to talk crap about their twin, it's on sight.

Ares is torn between following his mother and accepting his illegitimate siblings. He had persecuted the twins before they were born but later joined them in the Trojan war.

Athena might be distant from others at times due to her personality and domains, but there are moments she enjoyed dancing and playing music with her siblings.

And Persephone's case is the worse. She might not be an Olympian and stays in Underworld for half a year, but she had never expressed hatred for her non-chthonic family. Let Persephone have good relationship with her upper world family, too!!!

5. Hyacinthus has purple eyes.

Or, in elaborative words, the eyes ever so gentle like flower petals drifting on a calm lake in early spring, hand-painted by the finest of brushes with a meticulous shade of softly vibrant purple that could not be easily sought out in the tapestry of nature.

Sorry for the sudden poetic wax XDDD

Basically, I want Hyacinthus to have pretty purple eyes as one of his signature traits. It makes him stand out from the crowd due to the "divinity" it brings to him (because of the forth headcanon)

4. Hyacinthus' mother is Clio, the Muse of History.

The second-popular parentage of Hyacinthus in the myths, but I have lots of ideas and interpretations with this mother and son relationship:

- The son of the history Muse dating the god of prophecy. Past and future intertwine!

- Their domain and attribute! We study history to learn from the past mistakes and avoid repeating them. The hyacinth flower represents forgiveness, and I like to think it includes self-forgiveness as well. So Clio being Hyacinthus' mother can symbolize accepting and learning from your mistakes to forgive yourself.

- Family angst! Clio knows every way something can go wrong and result in her son's tragic end. So throughout Hyacinthus' life, she will do her best to prevent all possible demises that can happen to him, only to still end up losing him.

- It will give Aphrodite another reason to aid Hyacinthus' resurrection. Since Aphrodite is the one cursing Clio to fall in love with a mortal man and have Hyacinthus, she might feel guilty later when Clio was grieving her son, so she decided to help the mother and son reunite as repentance.

3. Polyboea becomes a huntress of Artemis.

We actually don't have any clear indication that Polyboea became a huntress of Artemis in the myths, but hey, it's not a bad headcanon! Polyboea died a maiden, and Artemis was fond of her enough to help bring her back from death. So it wouldn't be a stretch of the goddess recruit her into the hunter pack.

I have a lot of ideas for a Polyboea-centric fic after she became a virgin huntress, just her journey in perfecting the art of archery, making friends with the other huntresses, and learning to be her own person than just "the youngest princess of Sparta".

2. Apollo and Hyacinthus raise children together.

This heacanon definitely didn't come to me after reading a certain fanfic series hehehe...

The title said all, I like to thing after Hyacinthus' deification, he and Apollo are happily "married" and raise a bunch of kids together, adopted or from another lover (and they may or may not have a child together). Those kids will have the best childhood!

1. Hyacinthus and Polyboea undergo many trials in the Underworld before being granted resurrection and immortality.

As much as I love Hyacinthus and want him to have a happy ending with his loved ones, he's a potential package for physiological and psychological torture :)

There isn't much that we know of about Hyacinthus' resurrection in the myths other than him and his sister, Polyboea, being taken to the Heavens by a parade of deities. But I don't think the Underworld will allow two of their residents to go easily, so Hades and Persephone must have given Hyacinthus and Polyboea a trial like they did to Orpheus and Eurydice, but it will be 1000x worse because love me some blood-choking angst :D

For what the Underworld trials are and how Hyacinthus and Polyboea overcome them, they are will remain for now as ideas and concepts in the making for my Hyapollo fanfic