#apemosyne

[sarafangirlart]

Did Kaos even explain why the three humans “destined to destroy Zeus/the Gods” are specifically Eurydice, Caeneus and Ariadne? Because if they really wanted a “we hate the gods” story shouldn’t the chosen three be. severely wronged or abandoned by the gods / the fates?

Like Oedipus? Lamia? Cassandra? Daphne? Arachne? Callisto? Hell I’d even watch a smackdown of Clytemnestra vs Artemis or Menelaus and Helen vs Aphrodite any time then watch a whole other boring show following the same bad story tropes.

They don’t really explain it no, but I was so eager for it to be over I likely missed it, this show seems surprising hesitant to show the more gruesome side of mythology, if they adapted the story that Caeneus was raped by Poseidon and they show how angry and miserable he is about it I would’ve totally been on board, tho someone mentioned that considering the current social environment is especially hostile towards trans ppl nowadays, having someone transition after assault could be bad “pr” so to speak, tho I don’t think we should bend a knee to transphobes/terfs and make representation that’s more palatable and presentable, human experience is messy and we shouldn’t shy away from that in an attempt to make bigots less hostile towards minorities bc they will always be hostile.

If they show Eurydice being angry about Aristaeus not facing any consequences for trying to assault her I’d understand that too mythology Eurydice has zero beef with Hera, but she could feel resentment towards Aristaeus and by extension Apollo (since he’d likely defend his son), gods rarely face consequences for assaulting mortals, Euripides’s Ion tackles that subject way better than all of these “Gods bad” modern retelling (tho I wish Creusa didn’t forgive Apollo bc that mf didn’t even have the balls to show his face).

Instead of Ariadne, who usually gets a happy ending and becomes a goddess herself, how about going with Apemosyne? Another Cretan princess. Her story is extremely depressing, she’s screwed over by a god and her own family, considering that half the show takes place in the underworld she’d fit right in. Considering she’ll be “coworkers” with Hermes it would especially suck for her. But considering that Dionysus is made to be one of the “good ones” even tho in mythology he brainwashed women into slaughtering their families, they’d probably portray Hermes as such too, since he’s usually simply the comic relief in adaptations anyway.

That’s another thing, they water down the gods who are supposed to be good guys and make the “bad guy” worse, in this version Hades never kidnapped Persephone that’s just propaganda in universe. The Fates and Furies are goddesses but in this show they’re against the gods bc of that meander water thing? Don’t they drink it too?

I think they realized that their hesitancy means that they won’t be showing us bad things the gods actually did and so they make up random bullshit like Hera owning tongueless priestesses and Zeus killing a kitten. Cassandra is in the show but she’s more of an exposition machine tho it’s hinted she’ll play a bigger role in season 2, but why couldn’t she be one of the three humans destined to destroy Zeus? Why aren’t any of the Trojans destined to destroy Zeus? Why do they have to be saved by Greeks? Sure Zeus in mythology had a soft spot for them but he still planned the destruction of their city (could be a decent metaphor for an abuser who says that they love their victim while still abusing them imo) but Kaos Zeus doesn’t have that goodwill towards the Trojans so why not have them rightfully take him down? In the final episode Andromache and Ariadne team up and agree to fight against Olympus, tho that reminds me of Acrisius in the Clash of the Titans remake being more of a dumb dumb than he is in the myths and started a war against Mount Olympus only to unsurprisingly fail.

I really dislike how the Trojans are portrayed in the show, clearly they are supposed to be allegory for modern middle eastern refugees in Europe yet all the main Trojan characters are played by white actors. They have such a racially diverse cast but they seem uninterested in actually representing the diversity of the Mediterranean and mythology as a whole.

[theoihalioistuff]

In the post you made debunking the claim of Ares being the protector of women, you have written that secrecy and disposal of the child born point to rape. Can you please elaborate a bit as I'm having a hard time understanding how exactly? Especially with the latter, is it because the conception of the child happened without the permission of the father of the woman (I've heard even if woman slept willingly, without her father's assent then it would have been considered rape)?

TW for Rape and Infanticide. (My eyes actually started watering and I had to stop several times while researching this ask)

There's a lot to discuss in here, and I'm afraid a Tumblr post from someone who's not a classicist won't cover all that needs to be addressed, so for further reading I recommend Rape in Antiquity (1997) edited by Susan Deacy and Karen F. Pierce, and their follow-up Revisiting Rape in Antiquity (2023), Edited by Susan Deacy, José Malheiro Magalhães and Jean Zacharski Menzies, a series of collected essays regarding Sexual Violence in Greek and Roman Worlds.

Broadly speaking, our modern concept of Rape (criminal act defined by the lack of consent during sexual intercourse) does not have a strict ancient greek equivalent (bearing in mind that "ancient greece" covers large periods of history where attitudes almost certainly differed from time to time and from place to place). Nor is there a greek match found for the english word 'rape' – derived from the latin rapere "seize, carry off by force", which was used for both people (in the sense of abduct or kidnap, only rarely denoting sexual violence) and objects (in the sense of plunder). The latin words most commonly used to denote rape were stuprare "defile, disgrace, rape," which is related to stuprum "illicit sex" (also to stupere "to be stunned, stupefied", origin of the word stupid) and violare "maltreat, profane, infringe, violate".

In ancient greek several words could be used to denote what we today would call rape: Biazomai (βιάζομαι - inflict violence, force, constrain), Harpazo (ἁρπάζω - snatch away, seize, carry off; from where the Harpies get their name, later used to refer to the christian rapture), Hybrizo (ὑβρίζω - outrage, dishonor, affront, treat as an inferior; related to hybris, a complicated word), Moicheia (μοιχεία ‐ adultery, illicit sex) or Phthora (φθορά - ruin, damage, destroy) were all words that, to a greater or lesser extent, were used to refer to violent or illicit sex. These last two concepts, though intimately related to our definition of rape, can be considered distinctly, especially when approximating a definition of "rape" in the classical world: e.g. the forcing of a slave was not morally wrong or illegal, while consorting with a free married woman was. Willingness did not define the crime, rather status and ownership did.

Regarding this last point, women's sexual and reproductive rights belonged to their kyrios (κύριος - guardian, master, head of the household), generally fathers and husbands, but failing that brothers (e.g. Apemosyne and Althaimenes) or sons (e.g. Penelope and Telemachos). Moreover a woman's virtue and reputation were primarily linked to her sexual activity: chastity, modesty, shame and obedience being her main ethical concerns. Therefore, when it came to sexual relationships outside of marriage, it was narratively "preferable that a woman should be raped [be unwilling] rather than seduced" (The Portrayal of Rape in New Comedy, Karen F. Pierce), thus preserving the moral virtue of "respectable" characters like goddesses or heroines. This is not to say every sexual interaction in greek mythology is presented as a rape, that obviously varies from telling to telling and depends on the myth, but it explains the narrative predilection for it. It should also be remembered that plenty of these unions are ambiguous as to whether rape or seduction take place, primarily because it's not usually of interest to the narrator unless the virtue of the women is being discussed (e.g. the centuries long discussions on Helen that survive to this day, and even then the distinction can be dismissed as irrelevant or nonexistent; "We think that it is unjust to carry women off. But to be anxious to avenge rape is foolish: wise men take no notice of such things. For plainly the women would never have been carried away, had they not wanted it themselves." – Hdt. Histories 1.4.2).

When it comes to panhellenic myth, sexual unions between gods and women are primarily framed as extramarital (beffiting a monogamous culture where gods' official consorts where to be found elsewhere), without the κύριος knowledge or consent (for a reversal see Hyg. Fabulae 129), and therefore under the umbrella of illicit sex (i.e. Rape). Recurring motifs are attached to these kinds of stories, which give us narrative context to identify (or at the very least be suspicious of) similar accounts in other myths where no explicit word denoting rape is used (as is most common in surviving works of mythography, that prioritise genealogy and gloss over instances of sexual assault). One of the most common tropes is that of exposure.

Myths of exposure in greek mythology usually come in three flavours. Either the child is exposed because of some prophecy (e.g. Paris or Oidipous), because it is born female (e.g. Atalanta or Iphis) or, in the majority of cases, because it is the product of rape (see below). As you noted the most frequent reason given for the exposure is fear of the κύριος discovery, who, in instances where he does find out about the rape, either does not believe the victim or is indifferent to her plight, and in either case kills her or attempts to do so (some examples below):

[Apemosyne: killed by her brother Althaimenes after she is raped by Hermes] "Not much later he became the murderer of his sister. Hermes loved her, but she ran away, and he could not catch her (for she was faster than him at running). So he spread freshly stripped hides along her path, and when she was coming back from the spring, she slipped on them and was raped. She told her brother what happened, but he thought the god was just an excuse, so he kicked her to death." (Apollod. 3.2.1)

[Auge: sentenced to death by her father Aleos after she is raped by Herakles] "After Auge was raped by Herakles, she concealed her baby in the sanctuary of Athena, whose priestess she was. But the land remained barren, and the oracles revealed that there was some ungodly thing in the sanctuary of Athena, so Auge was found out by her father, and he handed her over to Nauplios to be put to death. Teuthras, the ruler of the Mysians, received her from Nauplios and married her." (Apollod. 3.9.1)

[Psamathe: killed by her father Krotopos after she is raped by Apollo] "Psamathe the daughter of Krotopos got pregnant by Apollo [in Statius' Thebaid 1. 562-669 she is explicitly raped beside a river] and because she feared her father she exposed the child, whom she named Linos. The shepherd who received him raised him as his own, and one day the kings sheepdogs tore him apart. Maddened with grief, she was detected by her father, who [after she had bared her breasts and told him all] sentenced her to death, assuming she had been a harlot and lied about Apollo." (Conon. Narrations 19)

[Alope: killed by her father Kerkyron after she was raped by Poseidon] "Since Alope, daughter of Kerkyon, was very beautiful, Poseidon lay with her, and from this embrace she bore a child which she gave to her nurse to expose, since she did not know its father. When the child was exposed, a mare came and furnished it milk. A certain shepherd, following the mare, saw the child and took it up. When he had taken it home, clothed in its royal garments, a fellow shepherd asked that it be given to him. The first gave it without the garments, and when strife rose between them, the one who had taken the child demanding signs it was free-born, but the other refusing to give them, they came to king Kerkyon and presented their arguments. The one who had taken the child again demanded the garments, and when they were brought, Kerkyon knew that they were taken from the garments of his daughter. Alope's nurse, in fear, revealed to the king that the child was Alope's, and he ordered that his daughter be imprisoned and slain, and the child exposed. Again the mare fed it; shepherds again found the child, and took him up, and reared him, feeling that he was being guarded by the will of the gods." (Hyg. Fabulae. 187)

Not every account of exposure explicitly denotes rape (as mentioned before the nature of the union generally goes uncommented), and sometimes depending on the version seduction is to be better understood. Though both are interchangeable narrative-wise, frequently other details lead may us to suppose the stock character of the unwilling (raped) maiden is being portrayed, I'll use the example of Phylonome again:

"Phylonome, the daughter of Nyktimos and Arkadia, was wont to hunt with Artemis; but Ares, in the guise of a shepherd, got her with child. She gave birth to twin children and, fearing her father, cast them into the [River] Erymanthos. By some divine providence they were borne round and round without peril, and found haven in the trunk of a hollow oaktree. A wolf, whose den was in the tree, cast her own cubs into the stream and suckled the children." (Ps. Plutarch. Greek and Roman Parallel Stories. 36)

1. Phylonome is explicitly mentioned as a huntress companion of Artemis (presumably sworn to chastity). The sexual vulnerablility of Artemis' companions is a common trope; see Kallisto, Daphne, Arethousa, Britomartis, Kyrene, Syrinx, Nikaia, Pholoe, etc.)

2. Ares transforms/disguises himself to approach her (perhaps the most common trope of all), and conceals his identity in the guise of a shepherd (a disguise otherwise used by Zeus to approach Mnemosyne; Ovid. Met. 6.103-128, Clement. Recog. 22)

3. After giving birth she casts her children into the river Erymanthos. The reasoning is the typical stock example, fear of her father, though in this case the form of infanticide is much more direct than exposure: she casts them into the river to drown. As usual with these stories the children are saved by divine intervention, and are nursed by an animal and later raised by shepherds.

Again, no verb denoting rape is ever explicitly used, yet the context of the story is enough to reasonably suppose it was considered as such. Other examples of myths where babies are exposed are listed below, many of them are explicitly rapes, almost all the rest can be inferred as such (I can't for my own sake provide references for all of them, so those interested must do their own research):

Koronis exposes Apollo's son Asklepios on a mountain near Epidauros according to a local legend, Psamathe exposes Apollo's son Linos, Antiope exposes Zeus' sons Zethos and Amphion, Alope exposes Poseidon's son Hippothoon, Akakallis exposes Apollo's son Miletos, Tyro exposes Poseidon's sons Pelias and Neleus, Kreousa exposes Apollo's son Ion, Pelopia exposes Thyestes' son Aigisthos, Auge exposes Herakles' son Telephos, Evadne exposes Apollo's son Iamos, and Phylonome "exposes" Ares' sons Lykastos and Parrhasios (this list is by no means meant to be exhaustive).

My post confronting fake claims that Ares was the protector of women can be found here.

[temple-of-hermes]

Lord Hermes Basic Info

Greek name: Ἑρμης

God of: Heards and flocks, travellers and hospitality, roads and trade, thievery and cunning, heralds and diplomacy, language and writing, athletic contests and gymnasiums, astronomy and astrology

Epithets: Epimelius (keeper of the flocks), Criophorus (ram-bearer), Agoraeus (of the marketplace), Dolius (of crafts, of wiles), Enagonius (of the games), Promachus (champion), Hermeneutes (interpreter, translator), Tricephalus (three-headed, of road intersections), Cyllenius (of Mount Cyllene), Acacesius (of Acacesium), Aepytus (of Aepytus), Propylaeus (of the gateway), Pronaus (of the fore-temple), Polygius (unknown), Paramnon (unknown), Argeiphontes (slayer of Argos), Maiados Huios (son if Maia), Diactorus (guide, messenger), Athanatus Diactorus (immortal guide), Angelus Athanaton (messenger of the gods), Angelus Macaron (messenger of the blessed), Chrysorrhapis (of the golden wand), Clepsiphron (deciever, dissembler), Mechaniotes (trickster, contriver), Pheletes (thief, robber, rustler), Archus Pheleteon (leader of robbers, thieves), Poecilometes (full of various wiles), Polytropus (wily, many-turning), Poneomenus (busy one), Buphonus (slayer of oxen), Oeopolus (sheep-tending, shepherd), Daïs Hetaerus (comrade of the feast), Charidotes (giver of joy), Charmophron (glad-hearted, heart-delighting), Dotor Eaon (giver of good things), Acaceta (guileless, gracious), Euscopus (keen-sighted, watchful), Eriounes (luck-bringing, ready-helper), Cydimus (glorious), Ericydes (famous, glorious, splendid), Aglaus (splendid, bright, glorious), Cratus/Craterus (strong, mighty), Masterius (of searchers), Pompaeus (the guide)

Job: Messenger of Zeus, guide to the Underworld

Depictions: Young, beardless, handsome, athletic; older, bearded

Symbols: Winged traveller's cap, winged boots, heralds wand, short sword, pouch, hermea (stone road-marker, wayside shrine),

Sacred animals: Hare, turtle, sheep, cow, ram, hawk, horses, mules, goats

Sacred plants: Crocus, strawberry tree (not to be confused with the strawberry bush)

Day of the week: Wednesday

Number: 4

Planet: Mercury

Celebrations: Hermea

Parents: Zeus and Maia

Partners: Aphrodite, Apemosyne, Brimo, Carmentis, Chione, Circe, Crocus, Daeira, Herse, Iphthime, The Oreads, Peitho, Penelope, Persephone, Polymele, Tanagra

God Equivalents: Odin, Mercury, Thoth

[sarnai4]

For the Crimes Of...

Disclaimer: I am not an expert on Greek mythology. I have some projects where I wanted to learn more about them, so I did research, but that's it. What I'm using here is from a mix of tales I've read. I'm very open to discussion and learning more about them if anybody wants to do that in the comments/reblogs! This is just a little something I thought of. Blame crime TV shows like Law and Order, but I wanted to rank the younger set of Olympus siblings from most crimes committed against women and children to least. I'm not even tackling the older set because I wouldn't know to put Zeus or Poseidon at the top. So, let's begin:

Hermes. The messenger god is accused of harassment, enlisting the aid of Arglauros to seduce her sister, Herse, then turning Arglauros to stone when she tried to prevent this from happening. He is also charged with several cases of sexual assault, including but not limited to stealing Aphrodite's sandal, then assaulting her when she went to look for it; using a substance to put Princess Chione to sleep before assaulting her; and pursuing Apemosyne, then blocking her path to slow her down so that he could assault her. He is also charged with pedophilia for engaging in the ancient practice of pederasty, which involves the abduction, grooming, and statutory rape of a minor.

Apollo. Although credit must be given to Apollo for respecting consent when given an outright no, he is charged with harassment to the extent that it led to women ending their own lives to escape his advances. Fortunately, he was a protector of children and taught them without requiring any sexual favors in return. Unfortunately, he is still charged with the kidnapping of Melia. He is also accused of sexual assault against Dryope with whom he engaged in sexual activity while in the form of a snake.

Artemis. The goddess of hunting has not used her temples as a way to protect virgins. In some stories, she is charged with abandonment of Callisto, a victim of sexual assault, who was turned away for no longer being a virgin or turned into a bear. In other cases, she accidentally killed Callisto after the woman was turned into a bear or made Callisto into a constellation. Artemis was able to protect her mother, Leto, from attempted assault; however, she is charged with aiding and abetting a sexual assault with Nemesis and Eros against the woman, Aura, who thought Artemis was too beautiful to be believable as a virgin. Artemis is also charged with felony animal cruelty on Polyphonte, a former follower of Artemis who had been sexually assaulted. Artemis then had the mortal get attacked by animals. In an odd attempt to help a follower, Arethusa, she turned the girl into a spring.

Hephaestus. The crafter god is sometimes accused of the attempted assault of Athena. Thankfully, this never is successful. He could be ranked lower, but finding himself a wife through the imprisonment of his mother is not a consensual way to have a marriage.

Dionysus. Depending on the evidence, I would like to defend Dionysus as a victim of coercion. This would be under the assumption that an altered state of awareness against his will caused him to behave in aggressive ways. If this is not true and Eros's arrow was not the cause of his actions, then Dionysus is charged with drug-facilitated sexual assault on Aura (or Nicaea, also depending on the version), to whom he secretly gave wine before performing the assault. Outside of this, the rest of his relationships seem consensual.

Athena. No accounts have been found of the goddess of wisdom aiding and abetting, condoning, or being directly involved in the assault of another individual. She did however turn Arachne into a spider for justifiably calling attention to the cruelty of the immortals, but as a symbol of freedom, it aligns with her beliefs to mostly help victims. She even honored the brutal murder of a follower of hers by turning the corpse into a myrtle or olive tree. Athena adopted the young Erichthonios, taking him under her wing when he had no one else. Sadly, her way of helping victims is slightly impractical. An example of this is turning Corone into a crow so that she would not be pursued by sexual predators. Another time was when she turned Medusa into a gorgon to prevent her from being attacked again. Although an argument can be made that the goddess is helping, the women might not be overly receptive to her aid when the cost is their humanity.

Ares. The god of war is on the bottom of this for a simple reason. Not only have no accounts been found of him committing sexual assault, but he also defends the victims while going after the perpetrators. Depending on the version, he either avenged the assault of his daughter, Aclippe, or prevented it altogether. Similarly, when Hera and Artemis were being relentlessly pursued by the Aloadae, he fought to protect them both. He does aid Aphrodite in her adultery, but he has not taken her by force nor have his other partners been unwilling to be with him. It is worth mentioning as well that Sparta's legal age of marriage was between 20 and 18-year-olds, a far more practical age gap between husbands and wives than the common younger wives with older husbands. Women were also able to manage their own properties, compete in sports, and leave home whenever they wanted.

(Had to edit this because I was reminded of Artemis and Apollo killing a horde of children and Hephaestus just isn't as mean as that.)

[aliciavance4228]

Quick Question: Why are there so many people who describe gods as "feminists"?

I remember myself writing last month at 2AM while drunk (romanians are just built different) an entire Bible about why Athena being labeled either as a Feminist or a Misogynist is wrong in both cases and that because we're talking here about a figure that was firstly mentioned hundreds of years ago when people had a completely different mentality than ours and blah blah blah. Yes, I'm the idiot who brought back the "Ovid is a faniction writer meme", but I'll let you beat the shit out of me later.

But I've discovered how a lot of greek gods are suddenly labeled as "feminists". And my genuine question is... how?

Ares: Many people claim that he was the protector of women and that he never raped any woman in his entire life just because he murdered his daughter's rapist. People forget the fact that just because there are few to no surviving written works in which he rapes women that doesn’t mean that he didn't do that at all; there are already two discovered myths in which he rapes a woman disguised as a shepard despite the fact that she was one of Artemis's huntress and one in which he sleeps with another woman in secret, respectively. Also, aside from his mother, lovers and daughters he doesn't protect any other woman that isn't close to him from being raped.

Apollo: Many people consider that just because he was a certified bisexual who deeply loved his mother and twin sister (and saved both of them from being raped in different myth versions) that makes him a feminist as well. Wrong: he raped Chione in her sleep and Dryone in the form of a snake.

Hermes: Hermes raped Chione in her sleep and Apemosyne after slipping on skinned hides that he placed on her path.

Dionysus: He raped Aura while she was drunk and Nicaea while she was unconscious. Also, people often forget that his own cult itself is the main reason why he cannot be a Feminist in the first place, and that because his priestesses usually had to get drunk during the festivals and rituals dedicated to him, which made them completely vulnerable to any man who wanted to take advantage of them.

Hades: On one hand, he lets his wife rule over the Underworld and have just as much authority as him. On the other hand, he still kidnapped her and then forced her to eat those pomegranate seeds. And because it's very uncertain wheter or not he actually raped her in Homeric Hymn to Demeter, some people may argue that the pomegranate seeds are supposed to symbolize his seed, and by extension him forcing Persephone to eat them is a metaphor for him forcing himself on her.

What is next: Telling me that Zeus was a feminist as well?

Now, I know that Greek Mythology is completely messed up and the desire to either change or erase some myths is justified. Also, it's really hard for a person who feels deeply connected to a certain deity to recognize that the respective deity has done some things that by modern standards would be considered immoral and/or completely disturbing. But that isn't an excuse for not admitting that yes, [Name] has done some horrible shit just like any other deity from the Pantheon. Save for Hestia, we all love her and she must be protected at all cost.

Now, I have absolutely no problem with your headcanons about the greek gods or depicting them in a better light in your fanfictions, comics, fanarts etc. etc.

However, claiming that your headcanons or retellings are mythologically accurate is a problem.

[littlesparklight]

"Then the son of Atreus drew his sword, and drove at the projecting part of his helmet, but the sword fell shivered in three or four pieces from his hand."

There's one thing that's kind of funny when it comes to Paris that that quote from the duel in Book 3 sort of is connected to. Some unfortunate event that by all appearances have no divine involvement, yet works out in Paris' favour. And, unlike Menelaos' sword shattering into pieces*, the other two events I'm thinking of look a lot worse and more suspicious, if you're a character in-world and have only partial knowledge. (*Obviously, realistically, breaking your sword, especially when slamming it into such a spot, isn't particularly impossible. But given that weapons aren't generally prone to break in epic unless a god was involved, the fact that there doesn't seem to be any involved here looks... funny, doesn't it? Menelaos certainly at least complains to Zeus after this, especially as he also attempted to call on Zeus before he attacked Paris.)

The first of those two Very Suspicious-Looking Events is the death of the Dioskouroi.

Mainstream/standard later version makes very clear there never was divine involvement in the events that led to Kastor's death/resurrection and Polydeukes being given immortality, aside from Zeus backing up Polydeukes. Paris is never anywhere near them, and rather, as is the version in the Bibliotheke, immediately ends up in Sparta. But in the Epic Cycle's Kypria, Paris is first hosted (not in Sparta) by the Dioskouroi. The only reason he's sent on to Helen and Menelaos by the Dioskouroi is... because the Apharetidai turns up and want to go on a raid with Kastor and Polydeukes. The raid that leads to Kastor being killed.

Funny timing, isn't it? And yet - nowhere is there any whiff of a suggestion that any god (not Aphrodite, not anyone else) or fate has anything to do with this. It's just events that work out in Paris' favour. (Doubly so since it removes the Dioskouroi from pursuing him or taking part in the war.)

The second event is the death of Katreus.

Getting informed of his grandfather's impending funeral is what gets Menelaos to leave Sparta, leaving the field open for Shenanigans to happen (much more easily than they otherwise could have).

It is very, very convenient, isn't it?

And yet, here is what Bibliotheke has to say: [3.2.1] But Catreus, son of Minos, had three daughters, Aerope, Clymene, and Apemosyne, and a son, Althaemenes. When Catreus inquired of the oracle how his life should end, the god said that he would die by the hand of one of his children. [...]

(Katreus hides the oracles, seeming to be ready to do what few others being told adverse oracles do in Greek myth; do nothing. But his son finds out and leaves, taking one of his sisters with him.)

Bibliotheke again: But afterwards in the grip of old age Catreus yearned to transmit the kingdom to his son Althaemenes, and went for that purpose to Rhodes. And having landed from the ship with the heroes at a desert place of the island, he was chased by the cowherds, who imagined that they were pirates on a raid. He told them the truth, but they could not hear him for the barking of the dogs, and while they pelted him Althaemenes arrived and killed him with the cast of a javelin, not knowing him to be Catreus.

Whether Katreus knows (as here) where his son is or not, it'd take time for him to get to Rhodes. It'd take even more if he doesn't know the location of his son and has to search the whole damn sea for him. Either way, he would certainly have left for his journey somewhere before Paris even steps foot on Lakedaimonian soil. And again, we have no gods involved in this; just an old man wishing to retire/hand over his crown with grace to his son, and thus seeking him out. Fate takes its course, as the prophecy he was once given said it would, long, long before Paris ever judged any goddesses - more than that, long before he was even born!

But if you're a character that is part of the world, and doesn't know all these separate steps and events... again, it looks quite suspicious, doesn't it?

Disaster seems to follow in Paris' soft-stepping wake.

[la-mer-etoilee]

TW: direct mentions of sexual assaults in fiction

I've seen many Greek Mythology fans who hate Calypso for keeping Odysseus with her and forcing him to sleep with her against his will for 7 years, taking advantage of Odysseus's vulnerable situation and her superior position as a divinity. That's true, those are terrible things to do, and I'm not overly fond of her either for that reason.

But at the same time I feel like she's hated more than she deserves.

I mean, of course she did terrible and disgusting things to Odysseus, but there are many characters who did terrible things and deserve to be hated for their deeds, and I don't see Calypso as the worst of them. Rape is an everyday activity for so many male characters in the Greek mythology, they take women by force and treat them like objects. Abusing their divine power and authority is another everyday activity for all the Greek divinities. Hermes raped Apemosyne of Crete and neglected her being beaten to death by her own brother who didn't believe her. (She's not widely known, at least in the Greek mythology fandom in my country, but I demand you readers to remember her name. She deserved better and she deserves to be remembered) Athena punished Arachne for shaming Zeus by describing shameful things Zeus had done. Apollo ruined many lives for scratches on his vain pride. Hades kidnapped Persephone and later tricked her to eat the pomegranate so that he can keep her anyway. The Dioscuroi kidnapped and raped their cousins, Hilaeira and Phoebe, who were also the fiancées of their cousin Idas and Lynceus. They're still quite beloved characters, no? Sometimes even a guy like Agamemnon gets focused on his human side, I've seen many Greek Mythology memes right here in Tumblr in which Agamemnon is described to be 'an asshole but with some human sides'. And Calypso is still being called 'cunt' or 'fucking bitch' by quite a lot of people. (Btw I hate people using such disgusting words. If you think calling women 'cunt' or 'bitch' is acceptable when calling gay people 'faggots' or calling black people 'niggers' is absolutely atrocious, go fuck yourself, I don't want to waste my time on debating with you) Some people might say "No one has kept raping their victim for 7 years like Calypso did", then I'd tell them how terrible their minds are, are they going to say that the victims of other rapists should have suffered 7 years as well to have their assaulters blamed as much?

I can't think of this matter out of the context of sex. Women are more hated than they deserve and men are supported more than they deserve, fictional or real.

I'm not saying "Calypso shouldn't be blamed because there are worse characters than her", I do admit she did terrible things. I just want anyone who might read this post to think once more about the double standard of hating Calypso for being a rapist and calling Hades one of the most romantic husband in the Greek Mythology.

[theycallmepspshh]

Greek Gods playing tag game: a compilation

Zeus & Aegina; Zeus & Ganymedes

Poseidon & Asteria; Poseidon & Amymone

Poseidon and Amphitrite

Hermes & Tanagra, Poseidon & Salamis

Hermes & Apemosyne; Hermes & Herse

Eos & Cephalus; Eos & Tithonus

Apollo & Daphne

Pan & some random youth

Boreas & Oreithyia

Zephyrus & Hyacinthus

[sarafangirlart]

Apemosyne would decide that you are a monster Hermes 😐

[alilgoblinthinks]

Family of Asterius the Minotaur

So this came about after a lot of research because I really love doing up family trees. I did not know how extensive this family was going be, and I have actually left out some of the great grandchildren of Pasiphae and Minos because I wanted to include the ones that were directly (well, as close as possibly) related to Asterius the Minotaur. 

Grandparents: Helios (God of the Sun) and Perseis (the Oceanid Nymph) were the parents of Pasiphae and her siblings, whereas Zeus (God of the Heavens) and Europa (a Phoenician princess) were the parents of Minos and his siblings. Asterion was the King of Crete, who adopted Minos and his brothers when he married Europa (the minotaur, Asterius, is named after him).

Parents: Queen Pasiphae (mother), the Cretan Bull (father), and King Minos of Crete (step-father).

Aunts/Uncles Through Pasiphae: Circe (aunt), Aeetes (uncle), Perses (uncle).

Aunts/Uncles Through Minos: Rhadamanthys (step-uncle), Sarpedon (step-uncle).

Half-Siblings Through Pasiphae and Minos: Catreus (eldest son and heir to Crete, killed by his own son), Androgeus (killed by the Cretan Bull in Athens), Ariadne (wife of Dionysus, goddess of the Labyrinth), Deucalion (husband of Cleopatra, King of Crete), Glaucus (Prince of Crete, resurrected when he fell into a pot of honey), Phaedra (wife of Theseus, Princess of Crete), Acacallis (princess of Crete, mother of children to Hermes and Apollo), and Xenodice (Princess of Crete).

Half-Siblings Through Minos: Eurymedon, Nephalion, Chryses, Philolaus (children of Pareia, killed by Heracles), Euxanthius (son of Dexithea, he became King of Ceos).

Family of Catreus: Althaemenes (only son, he accidentally killed his father after years apart), Apemosyne (kicked to death by her brother, he believed she lied about being chased down by Hermes), Aerope (spared by Nauplius, she married Atreus and gave him two sons Agamemnon and Menelaus, she also gave a golden lamb to Thyestes who became King of Mycenae), and Clymene (became the wife of Nauplius and mother of Palamedes, Oeax, and Nausimedon).

Family of Androgeus: Andrgoeus sons were Sthenelus (companion of Heracles, killed in the war of the Amazons), and Alcaeus (Cretan general of Rhadamanthys, later became a companion of Heracles).

Family of Glaucus: The daughter of Glaucus was Deiphobe (a priestess of Phoebus Apollo and Diana Trivia).

Family of Deucalion: Deucalion married Cleopatra and they had two sons, Idomeneus and Molus (they led the Cretans to Troy).

Family of Phaedra: She married Theseus and their sons were Demophon (King of Athens), and Acamas (He was a part of the Trojan War).

Family of Ariadne: She married Dionysus (God of Wine), and became the mother of Oenopion (King of Chios, the personification of wine), Staphylus (associated with grapes, he was one of the Argonauts), Thoas (King of Lemnos), Phanus (one of the Argonauts), Enyeus (King of Skyros), Maron (Hero of Sweet Wine).

Family of Acacallis: She bore a son to Hermes (God of Messages) called Cydon (Founder of Cydonia), and with Apollo (God of Music) she was the mother of Naxos (Founder of the Island Naxos), Miletus (Founder of the City of Miletus), and Garamas (sometimes called Ampithemis).

[grsskmythology]

The verb the original text uses is phtheiro (in the form of phtheiretai). On its own, this verb translates to “spoil”, “destroy”. The use of rape in translation is, I guess, because of the context; Apemosyne flees from him (she doesn’t want him), he then tricks her and has his way with her. So I guess this is supposed to be rape.

(tw: rape)

Okay I have answered this same ask FIVE TIMES bc tumblr deleted the first four and the fifth one didn’t show up on tags. i am straight up NOT having a good time. will be crying later

Okay so I can’t remember the exact wording of the ask, but basically this person was asking if Hermes raped Apemosyne or not. So it’s great that they thought I was the right person to come to and all (thank u v much for the ego boost) but it is no secret that I am a Certified Dumbass and so I’m just gonna link a bunch of sources and see what they say. We all know the only thing I know is that Poseidon is a bottom. please join the movement. please

https://www.theoi.com/Olympios/HermesLoves.htm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apemosyne

https://pantheon.org/articles/a/apemosyne.html

http://01greekmythology.blogspot.com/2014/01/apemosyne.html?m=1

So yee!!! Two of the four specify rape, while the other two don’t explicitly say it but it can be inferred. Also btw idk if you were asking me or telling me by the way you worded the ask but here this is anyway kajdksjdjiej. You can take with this what you may, it’s good to know the bad things gods have done but also don’t let this start a Hermes hate train bc I will fight yall😔

Ok goodbye!!! Join the movement!!!!

(Edit: it didn’t show up on tags again. I wanted some Greek mythology blogs to see this and Be Proud Of Me but no😔😔😔😔 finna head out)

[goreprofonde]

Here is the god outrun, hunting in the forest, here he is with his seven brace of fawns dragging them into the clearing one by one piling them in a soft heap, hanging the first by its neck from a tree, slitting it from throat to dappled rump

sliding the knife under the pelt, hacking away at its ligaments careless, quick, spoiling the meat. He rolls the skin from the back of its fawn-neck like a shrug, holds it in his fists to tug off hair and hide

its web of membranes ripping like a torn caul, a slick, wet, marbling of white on wine-black meat the moon-pale underside of subcutaneous fat, and the faun peeled bare save for its face. Here is a pile of cast-off lower legs, their dainty sleeves; here is where the carcass itself

is slung to waste, its raw mass cast away, here is a rickle of skins. The air is beginning to hum, beginning to seethe, a darkness of flies – the second fawn and the third, skinned and weeping – here is a clearing convulsed with brittle wings a god who has maggots hatching in his lungs

breathing hard cutting into shoulders and rump here is a god with flies swarming from his mouth up to his elbows in blood here is a clearing dark red with discarded hearts and bowels, here is a butcher god taking the skins and spreading them on the path.

See the girl slipping as she runs looking back over her shoulder to watch where he hunts, how the fatty, blood-soaked underlayer of the skins skids and slips, treacherous as ice how the skins fester and weep how she tries to get up again and they slip.

The god can hear her as she cries for her brother he does not see that when this brother finds her instead of tending to the bruised and broken body of his sister, he will kick her in the stomach and the girl will die alone in the forest with her little bones and her insides bleeding.

- Fiona Benson, Pasiphaë on Her Granddaughter, Apemosyne.

[theivorybilledwoodpecker]

I really hate how certain Greek myths get romanticized to the point where every search you do for books about certain mythical figures turns up nothing but erotica (or sometimes just romance books).

Hades kidnapped Persephone. It's possible genuine love developed later on, but the very be

Zeus kidnapped Ganymede, so it's either rape or extremely dubious consent. It's not some wonderful representation of same-sex relationships. Ganymede was also a teenager, so pedophilia.

I'm not saying I'm shocked that these myths appear. Greek mythology is really messed up. But I would really love to read books based on these characters that didn't present these two relationships as love stories.

(Also, if modern articles/books about any of the gods didn't refer to rape victims as the god in question's lover or partner. Zeus raped Alcmene and Leda. Hermes raped Apemosyne and Chione. I can understand Ancient Greeks not making the distinction, but it's 2021. Let's not pretend a rape victim is the god's lover.)

[godsofhumanity]

hmm. i don't think that Hermes could travel that fast- in Apollodorus' Bibliotheca, he gets outrun by a mortal:

"Althaemenes... set out from Crete with his sister Apemosyne... Hermes loved [Apemosyne], and as she fled from him and he could not catch her, because she excelled him in speed of foot..." (Apollodorus' Bibliotheca, 3.2)

but WITH his sandals, he can fly as fast as the winds, as written by Homer in the Odyssey:

"Straightway [Hermes] bound beneath his feet his beautiful sandals, immortal, golden, which were wont to bear him over the waters of the sea and over the boundless land swift as the blasts of the wind." (Homer's Odyssey, 5.45)

i couldn't find anything about Apollo being a speedster unfortunately ://

this isn't what you asked, but i'd say that Iris was probably the fastest. she travels "along rainbows"- the implication being that she travels at the speed of light which, of course, is faster than sound. idk about thought though!

"Unseen by any, the virginal Iris speeds to earth, sliding along the curve of a rainbow of many colours." (Virgil's Aenid, 5.606)

does hermes fly faster than sound or thought? i remember reading either he or apollo was as fast as thought/ spoken word but i forgot 💀 if someone has a source, thatd be super helpful

[alatismeni-theitsa]

I have a question. I am planning to write Lit-RPG book. The game world has greek gods npcs who help out or hinder players. Is it ok to turn around some of their myths? With an excuse that the game company wants to tone down the myths for the enjoyment of its game. And for Hermes and Apollo, I want them to be completely good gods. For ex, Apemosyne actually lied and her brother killed her fearing Hermes's wrath. Chione having consent poly with Hermes and Apollo. Making them likable for players.

Hello! Sorry for getting at this kinda late! Obviously creative freedom is a thing and whatever my answer is, it doesn’t mean that I will be against you or aim to cancel you if you don’t abide by it. You have the right to do whatever you want for your own story.

That being said, I wouldn’t recommend changing the stories of the gods too much. You can make some small changes or have the gods say “the legend says X but I actually did Y” but I don’t think it would be right to turn the myths around.

I also think you got the logic of the Greek pantheon wrong. There are no “bad” and “good” gods in the pantheon. They are gods and they are above human morality. They control the world and their decisions must be respected. The “good“ and “bad“ gods thing came from a Christian and modern POV.

Plus, if you strip the gods from actions they have done it would be like you whitewash them morally. Those actions are part of their story and character. It would be a bit weird to pretend that the gods never did questionable (by 21st century standards) things. And, the thing is, a mythology shouldn’t be stripped from elements we today deem as negative, so it can appeal to an audience. It is a whole package, not cherry picking.

Maybe in your story you can say that all those negative myths were lies but this will paint all the Greeks and Hellenic Polytheists as slanderous towards the gods. We don’t want that :P

Gods from different pantheons have done questionable things and the Greek gods are no different. I am sure the readers will be fine with the moral ambiguity of the original myths we know of, if the characters of the gods are still likable.

If you have more questions or want to discuss something, I am here!

[clasassist]

See the thing is

I don't have a problem with all the Apollo's terrible love life jokes. I find them funny. But what I find more funny is people pretending as if the other Olympians had it better. They all had sucky love life bro what are you talking about?

Amethyst ran away from Dionysus and was turned into a stone. His boyfriend Ampelos died by an accident and was turned into a vine.

Hermes also lost his bf Crocus and this chick called Apemosyne ran away from him (and she was faster than him) he also got epically rejected by Aphrodite

Zeus chased Asteria and she became and island. Not to mention Io and Callisto.

Artemis killed Orion either by her own will or by getting tricked into doing so. Callisto was turned into a bear and was shot down.

Syrinx and Pitys ran away from Pan and were metamorphosised.

Aphrodite lost Adonis. Plus her marriage life was a wreck too.

They were all hopeless in love at some point of their life and I think it makes them more relatable.