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bustyasianbeautiespod · 3 months ago

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Episode 101: Fuckass Guys From Fuckass Nowhere

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello! It's Grey.

C: Hello! It's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many times…

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we're both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode we are discussing… [C groans] Season 5, Episode 19: “Hammer of the Gods,” [C boos] written and directed by Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin- No, no! [both] Written by Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin [C boos] Directed by Rick Botta…?

C: Boo- who the fuck is that?

G: This is his only episode of Supernatural. [C: Get out! And he did.] And he is known for Kiss The Girl, Barbed Wire, and Lethal Weapon Four.

C: Has this person not had work since 2011? Are they dead?

G: Yeah, maybe he died, so that's your- that's your problem, Crystal. [C laughs] I didn't say anything bad about him ever. [C laughs]

C: He directed 23 episodes of Tales From the Crypt. [G: What is that?] That is like, a known thing.

G: Well, I don't know it. And as you know, my experience of American television is the ultimate American television experience.

C: True. Yes, it is.

G: Well, a couple of things. This episode, obviously, a very racist episode [C and G laugh] and just, like, terrible in other ways. Like, the fundamental terrible of it is like, it's racist, and then there's offshoots of that that manifest in different ways. [C: Yeah] And then, also, I sound horrible. The volcano is doing its thing. I'm so sorry. I'm having allergies because of it.

C: You should have stopped the volcano when you could, Grey. Why didn't you?

G: [laughs] Yeah, I mean, we could have recorded way earlier when the volcano was still not doing its thing, but we didn’t. So I feel like that's actually my fault.

C: That's true. How dare you have a chronic illness?

G: Yeah, so horrible.

C: And I guess on my part, because of how delayed this recording is, [G laughs] I watched this episode 16 days ago, and I haven't rewatched it. [G: Yeah] So yeah, we'll see how this goes.

G: Yeah, what do you know about this episode before going in?

C: Lucifer is at some hotel conference with gods from other religions. Gabriel is there trying to get with Kali. Also Dean tries to hit on her, and she says no, and he's annoyed about it. Lucifer's like, "We have to kill all these other gods," and Sam and Dean are like, "Sure." And also that Ganesh is played by a Black man, and also that there's some Chinese guy here called Zao Shen.

G: Does he speak in Mandarin or Cantonese?

C: Cantonese. [laughs] And despite that every other god can speak English. Interesting.

G: Yeah. I did find that… [C: Interesting] [G laughs] Interesting. I found it interesting, obviously.

C: [laughing] A lot of interest was piqued at this.

G: I mean, honestly, I don't remember this episode because I think I watched it one time, and after that one, I was like, [C: That’s enough] "Let's just skip this every time we see it." Yeah. And I- I mean, eugh. [both laugh] It's bad! Who'd have thunk, even? It's not like we have been talking about how much we dread this episode for a long time.

C: We have. Or we haven't. Who knows? [G: Who knows?] You'd have to rewatch- relisten to remember.

G: Yeah, well, we start the episode. Well, "Then" sequence is just, I think-

C: Gabriel exists. The plot of 5.18.

G: Yeah. There's like, a Lisa bit. There's like, a bit with Lisa and stuff. We start the episode with Sam and Dean pulling up to a hotel lobby, and it's rather nice!

C: It's not Sam and Dean. [G: It's not?] It's like, a guy. It's a cold open. Sam and Dean don't show up until later.

G: Ugh. [laughs] I don't even remember this part!

C: [laughs] You watched it 4 days ago!

G: I mean, you have to remember. I usually watch the episode literally like an hour before we record, so like-

C: That's true. That shit's stored in short term memory, baby.

G: Yeah. I mean, the intro is whatever. If I didn't remember, it's probably because it's unmemorable.

C: [laughs] That's true. Why am I trying to defend Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin right now? You're right. It may as well be Sam and Dean. Who cares? White men all look the same.

G: Oh, I remember this, actually! Because I had the thought that they did this exact same thing with Lilith. Like, Lilith pulls this thing, too, where someone is like, "Oh, I don't like- sorry," and she's like, "No, you're here for a reason. Because we have to eat you." And, like, this guy does as well.

C: Yeah. He's a security guard for the Elysian Fields Hotel.

G: Guy's been eaten. Hooray! Or maybe not. I'm not actually sure. [laughs]

C: I think the fact that they put cannibalism in this episode, even though it's not part of the lore of any of these gods, as a reason to kill them is bad.

G: Yeah, Sam and Dean enter the fucking hotel, and it's a nice hotel. It's nicer than they usually go to. And it's like, storming outside, and like, Sam later on says that it's like a Biblical storm. [both laugh] Dude, come to Manila. [both laugh] We have a lot of Biblical storms here. Anyway, as they're checking in, the fucking host- What is it called? The guy in the fucking- [both] concierge. Yeah.

C: Which I know from A Series of Unfortunate Events.

G: Who is this guy? I forgot.

C: Was he Mercury? Or like-

G: Oh yeah, he's Mercury because he's the fast one, right? That's his gimmick. [C: Yes.] But he points out that Dean's neck, he has, like, a little wound, and he's like, "Oh, you shaved yourself nicking." No! [C laughs] The other way. He was like, "Oh, you nicked yourself while you were shaving." And it's woo, ominous, whatever the fuck. And yeah, he points them towards the buffet. Love a buffet. [laughing] This episode's still terrible. [C laughs] Anyway, they they go into the- [muffled thud] oh, shit. So they they go to eat, and Dean is picking food, and he's like, getting the pies, which are allegedly the best in the state, or the [both] tri-state area, like Doofenschmirtz. Do people actually say "tri-state area," or did Doofenschmirtz Incorporated invent that?

C: Is that New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut? Let me check what the tri-state area is.

G: But this this place is in Indiana. Is it the second three states?

C: Oh, okay, it refers to any area that lies across three states. Okay, yeah, there is a New York one, which is the one that I said, the New York tri-state area. Which one's the Indiana one? The Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky tri-state area.

G: Why is it- why? Why? Why?

C: Sometimes, states are friends.

G: It's obviously not like a political, geographical location. So what's the point?

C: It "implies a shared economy or culture among the area's residents," apparently.

G: But why only three? Why only three?

C: It's a bit busy, otherwise.

G: Why not two?

C: Two's too intimate. [G laughs]

G: Yeah, they're not in wuv. They're in business, so.

C: Exactly. Yeah. Not that three people can't be in love! [both laugh] Hashtag polyamory! [laughs] Anyway- [G: Yeah, we're committing polyamory-] Yeah, like in Merrily We Roll Along, the only [laughs] media ever where three people were in love.

G: Yeah, like, House and Wilson and Cuddy, even.

C: True. The only two medias. And House and Wilson and Cuddy were in the tri-state area, [G: This is true!] and so were the Merrily trio because they were in New York City.

G: New York, exactly. We just need a- no.

C: Yeah. Where's the Connecticut throuple? Yeah.

G: Who's the Connecticut throuple? I don't know.

C: I don't know. It's your K-pop guy and two other people.

G: Who the fuck is-? Ahh! He's not my K-pop guy. Don't ever say that about Jaehyun.

C: You're right. It's a K-pop guy that I only know of through you, but he is not your guy.

G: Yeah, I don't like him. I mean, he's fine. I think his new sound is good, or whatever the fuck people say. I fundamentally hate his face. [C laughing] So yeah, if you're a Jaehyun fan- like, many people love him because he's actually genuinely very attractive. But I find that annoying. So yeah. [laughing]

C: Well, this has been a PSA. So Dean's eating pie...

G: Dean's eating pie. As he's walking back to his table, he sees an Asian woman, a South Asian woman.

C: Yeah. You didn't let us do the setup of "He sees a woman... and she's Asian!" Oh well.

G: Where is this a setup from?

C: No, I feel like every time there was an Asian character, [G: Ohh.] we'd describe the character first, and then we go, "And they're Asian!"

G: Well, okay. Well, he walks up towards a woman, and she's wearing-

C: And she's Asian!

G: No! [laughing] We have to describe her first. Okay. So he walks up to a woman, and she's wearing a red shirt. Her hair, very wonderfully wavy. She's, I think, drinking coffee or something. And Dean goes up to her, and I don't know, tries to hit her up... and she's Asian.

C: [overlapping] Wait, so is she Asian or not? [both laughing]

G: We need to give up. We've already done it three times, at least.

C: [laughing] Okay, yeah. It's joever.

G: Dean is hitting up on her. What do we say? She goes, "No." and Dean goes, "But-" [both laughing] What's wrong with him? What's wrong with him?

C: [laughing] What was his wonderful logical argument gonna be? What was gonna come after the "but"?

G: I know. What's wrong with him?

C: I don't know. Something, clearly. Racism and misogyny, I think, probably.

G: He starts trying to be like, "No, but like, you know. I'm sorry, I just- I-" but Kali is like, "Go away!" and then he does. And as he sits down, Sam's not eating. He's in distress about everything. And he's like, "Saaam! You should eat." And Sam says there's like, a Noah's Ark storm outside, [laughs] and that's really bad! But Dean says, "You have to unfucking clench." And Sam's like, "No, you're right." [laughs] Supernatural is so corny. [both laugh] Is Supernatural a corny show? [both] Yes. Anyway, yeah, Dean's like, "Well, don't worry. We'll find Cas. We'll find Adam. But for now, let's try to enjoy the one break that we get from being stuck here." And so there's this bit where the camera follows away, they're going around the dining area, and she goes into the kitchen. And there's body parts in the kitchen. Hell yeah!

C: So Sam and Dean go up to their room. There's like-

G: Can I say something?

C: Huh? Yeah.

G: 'Cause the- I don't know. I mean, we've already said it. Whatever. I feel like it's just a fundamental misunderstanding to like, [laughs] equate all pagan gods the same or like, all polytheistic gods the same. [C: I agree.] Now that I think about it, because like, Supernatural has done gods in the past, and they are all like, cannibalism.

C: Yeah, the Christmas episode, the Paris Hilton episode.

G: Yeah. And they also did one- Isn't the one where they're like, in a- "Scarecrow." That was like, they were sacrificing humans for the gods. [C: That's true.] And so Supernatural has always made this like, fucking connection that, like, pagan god = cannibalism. Pagan god = human sacrifice. And it's like, well.

C: And we've also never had a character who wasn't Christian, right? Or no. Rufus is Jewish. [G: Yeah.] Okay, yeah. But we've never had a character with a polytheistic religion? I don't think so.

G: Yeah. And is Rufus Jewish, like, a known thing at this point? Or is it later?

C: Yeah, I think that might be later. Yeah. So, so far, we have not had a character of a religion that's not Christianity, [both] explicitly.

G: Yeah. Oh, I miss Rufus. When will we see him again? I don't think we will see him in Season 5. So Season 6?

C: Does he come back in Season 6 to die, and that's it? Wait, we saw him in 5.02.

G: Oh, yeah. Oh my god! It feels like forever ago! He was with Ellen and Jo. Yeah. Whatever. It's such a- I mean, Supernatural has always had this issue of just being like, "Oh, this complex thing, actually, it's purely evil, because they eat people." That's always been their thing. I just- especially for existing religions, though. That is, you know, well, obviously, it's bad. [laughs] I mean, the thing is, talking about this episode is like, all the egregious things that they do-

C: It feels like talking to a kindergarten class because it's like, "It was bad to do the most obvious, racist thing ever."

G: [laughs] Like, "It's bad to obviously do a terrible thing." Like, yeah, we know. [C laughs] But like, it is still- I mean, when was this released? 2011, right? What's the times like, so different? Were things so different?

C: I don't think so.

G: I mean, I don't know.

C: I think it's just the white man show written by white men for white men.

G: Yeah, perhaps. But like, I don't know. I feel like a lot of white people are into, well, Hinduism.

C: I think neopaganism is kinda new.

G: That's newer than 2011? I mean, there's a lot of things also, with regards to that. But like, I'm just saying, like, people know the names. They don't at 2011?

C: Oh, like, the names of gods?

G: Or, like, I don't know, like, if somebody told me-

C: I don't know. I was busy being ten years old.

G: [laughs] This is true.

C: I mean, I think I knew the names of some of the gods because I like, had Hindu friends.

G: Well then, what's all this, then? [both laughing]

C: I don't know. I just think- Like, were they not aware that, like, Hinduism, is the third largest religion in the world? [laughs]

G: I mean, what it is is that- we've said this in the past. Supernatural, I think, just failed to consider that they would have audience outside of their target audience. So like, they did not give a fuck, it was just like, "I don't know." I mean, Season 5 of a TV show. I'm sure they were aware that they had international audience at this point.

C: Well, were they? And if they were, did they care?

G: Yeah, this is true. They did not give a single fuck. I mean, a lot of the times, I feel like, when we're like, "But why were we doing this?" I feel like I'm giving so much benefit of the doubt of like, [laughs] good intentions behind the actions. And like, the reason they did this is because the people who wrote this were racist. [C laughs] That's why. But yeah, well.

C: Sam and Dean go up to their hotel room, and there's like, a couple making out in front of a door next to their room. The room itself is quite fancy, and also, Casa Erotica is in there.

G: Yeah, I just do wanna say that I found this bit funny when Dean is like, laughing about the couple making out, and Sam goes, "Dude, what are you? 12?" And Dean goes, "I'm young at heart." I did have a laugh. I'm so sorry. [laughs] I know it's completely irrelevant to everything. But go on.

C: You know, I'm glad somebody somewhere is having fun. Yeah, Sam is again suspicious of how nice this hotel is. [G: Yeah.] And they hear the couple having sex on the other side of the room, but then there's a really, really loud sound, and then, like, the wall between their rooms, gets like, smashed into really hard.

G: Semi-destroyed, yeah.

C: Yeah. So they run over, and nobody is there. And there's an engagement ring on the floor.

G: Yeah, [laughs] there's a fucking product placement of an engagement ring on the floor for some reason.

C: Was it? Was it a product placement? No, you're joking.

G: No, I mean, I just find it hilarious that, like, it's just there on full display. Like, "Sam and Dean, find us!"

C: Yeah, it's beautiful. So they head on down to the concierge to be like, "Hey, something weird happened." But Mercury is just like, "Um, oh my god! Like, they just checked out. And, oh my god! They lost their engagement ring? That's crazy!" And he's like, smiling creepily the whole time. And Dean's like, "Okay, I guess something is weird. I'll look around and you keep an eye on Mercury." So they split up, and Mercury disappears partway through Sam trailing him and then there's like, a cut that appears on Sam's neck where the cut on Dan's neck appeared as well. Meanwhile, Dean walks by this room that has a door open, and there's an elephant in there. And, as is noted in the wiki, this is an African elephant when Ganesh is depicted as an Asian elephant, for obvious reasons. [both laugh] I don't know. It just feels like a symbol of how they wouldn't do the bare minimum of research, you know what I mean? [G: Yeah.] Like, it's a CGI elephant. [G laughs] You can change what the ears look like pretty easily. [G: Yeah.] And when Dean does a double take, when he goes back, it's a man there instead who's like, naked except for a towel around him, and he's angry at Dean for looking.

G: We go to a scene where like, Kali and Baldur are- like, they're flirting, whatever. I don't even remember. They're dressing up? Something. And Mercury comes in, and Mercury is like the concierge. He hands over, like, vials of blood, and he's like, "Oh, there's like, the pantry is full, and the Winchesters are under control." He reveals his skills of being quick on his feet by doing a zoom-zoom around the room. [both laugh] It's so corny. And anyway, yeah, "Let's get it going" is what they say. And so Sam and Dean go down. They see that the halls are empty and that the doors are locked and that they're trapped here, and that they were led here, whatever. They go into the kitchen, and there is a scene that, like, I think I've seen this giffed or whatever where they're walking around the kitchen. Dean is like, looking at this boiling pot of "tomato soup" in quotation marks, and he's like, "Please be tomato soup," and then he ladles it up, and there's like, a bunch of eyes in there. [C: Yeah.] Hell yeah! The eyes are green, so, I don't know. Whatever.

C: [laughing] What?

G: [laughing] No, I just wanted to point it out.

C: Okay. Beautiful detail.

G: Yeah, beautiful green eyes or whatever. Sam goes towards, like, the fridge area, and a lot of these guys are Carmy locked in the fridge. And yeah, they're like, pounding at the door, "Get us out!" or whatever. But then, as Sam is trying to unlock the door, and Dean goes like, "Do it faster!" and Sam turns around and goes, "I'm going as fast as I can!" [laughs] He's so real for that. Didn't they also do that thing in like, that other terrible episode where they're trying to show that Sam is angry?

C: Yeah, the one where it's like, "Sam's so angry." Yeah, it was in "Sam, Interrupted." [G laughs] Yeah, Sam snaps at Dean about, like, the not lockpicking fast enough situation.

G: "This is evidence that Sam is high-strung and so so mad at the world! It's because he's mad that Dean is telling him to hurry up with the lock." [C laughs] But anyway, Dean does that fucking joke that everyone who makes fun of Marvel says as a way to make fun of Marvel, where he goes, "There's something behind me, isn't there?" [C: Yeah.] And then they get smacked.

C: Were the two gods behind them- was that Zao Shen and Baron Samedi? Do you remember?

G: I have no recollection whatsoever.

C: Okay. I think those were the two that were in there. The Wiki suggested that because Zao Shen is a Chinese folk religion kitchen God, [laughs] that's why he was there cooking all the people.

G: No, I mean, honestly, [laughs] I did find that like, "Okay, well, what are they doing?" [laughs] Because- I don't know. Whatever. And like, I think it's just a combination of he's also the only one who doesn't speak English. It's like, what are we doing here? I mean, that can be said about literally every aspect of this episode, though, so.

C: Yeah, no. But okay, like, I think the two who attack them are, like, a Chinese man and a Black man, right? [G: Yeah.] So that's those two. Yeah, yeah, you know, interesting. Interesting. There are statements that people make about what people of color eat as meat that I feel like can be applied to it being racist that these are the two people who are in the kitchen, but I don't know if it's that deep. I think they were just being racist and stupid the whole time [G laughs] in like, a not deep way, so.

G: [laughs] Yeah. They didn't even have the commitment of the bit to, like, those- like, to the people who were attacking my friend, who like, said that Mark from NCT posted a really corny poem, where they [laughs] scrolled through her profile to look for a picture of her dog, and then started telling her to eat her dog. [C laughing] Like, they didn't even have that commitment to being racist. [both laughing] Like, they were just shallowly racist for whatever reason. That is still such a wild story to me. [C screams]

C: This was on, what? Instagram? Twitter?

G: This was on Twitter. Like, she said, "God! The poem Mark posted"- 'cause like, Mark Lee from NCT, he posted a poem that he wrote, and it was bad. And she was like, "God! What the fuck is this poem Mark posted?"

C: Like, Misha Collins bad?

G: No like, I don't know. He's like- Mark is kind of like a- I don't know. Mark is fine. [C laughs] I also don't like him. I'm beginning to question whether I like anyone in NCT.

C: This is not an episode about "Hammer of the Gods." This is an episode about all of Grey's specific K-pop beefs. [G laughs]

G: I mean, he's fine, and I think he's a very talented man, and like, yeah. And like, he's just very famous in the Philippines for some reason. I think in the world, also. [C laughs] But specifically, in the Philippines, he's famous because, like, he kind of looks like- he has the vibe of like, your childhood neighbor friend. You know what I mean? Like, he's like, [C: Yeah. Boy next door vibes.] "I can go outside and see a guy like him." And I think that's his appeal, that he's approachable. Anyway, yeah, he posted a terrible poem. And like, my friend doesn't have, like, "Filipino" on the page. I don't think she has any, like, identifiable "Oh, this is an Asian person." [C: Yeah.] And this person really scrolled the fuck back for a picture of her dog to quote-tweet it like, "Why don't you just eat your dog?" [both laughing] Like, commit to the bit, honestly. People will fucking do anything.

C: [laughing] Yeah, I guess they will.

G: Anyway, Sam and Dean are now in this like, hall with some tables around, and everyone's eating around the tables. And Baldur is hosting this fucking thing, and he's like, "Wow, everyone. There's so many gods here," whatever.

C: Oh, wait! Is this where the name tag flashing- [laughing]

G: Oh my god! This pissed me off so bad! I completely forgot about it! Okay, so when they enter the room, so Sam and Dean come in- and we see it from Dean's perspective. I think they were like, "If we see it from Sam's perspective, it's kind of whack." [laughs] Like, "Sam would not have this thought process," whatever. [laughing] From Dean's perspective-

C: Wait, you think that Sam Winchester, of "every culture, every religion" wouldn't? [G laughs] Sam's actually read the lore books. I think all of this is coming from Sam's brain. I don't think Dean knows any of these illustrations.

G: [laughs] Like, we were seeing Dean's confused face, but the thought process was actually Sam's. It was Sam connecting the dots, and he was furiously whispering this in Dean's ear as Dean takes it in. Anyway, the visual that they do is they have- So the god, and then the god is wearing a name tag. Literally like a "Hi, I'm..." name tag.

C: Yeah. "Hi! My name is Baldur," etc.

G: So it zooms in on the name tag, and then there's like, quick flashes of, like, what the god is about. [laughs]

C: Yeah, it's just like, an illustration of them, like, looking scary and evil. [G: Yeah.] Should we go through the who's here?

G: Sure. Let's go through the who's here, yeah.

C: Alright. Okay. We got Zao Shen, who's a kitchen god from Chinese folk religion. We've got Baron Samedi, who is from Haitian Voudu, and I think- what is he? He's the loa of the cemetery, and I think he's usually depicted as having either a skeleton face or face painted like a skeleton, and he wears dark glasses. Very cool. They don't do any stylizing of, like, these gods' like, human forms. It's a good look, I think. [G: I mean-] I don't think they needed to. I don't think I would have liked it, but it's still very low effort. [laughs]

G: I mean Supernatural is the dragon as people show. [C laughs] But like, for example, they do a bit where Kali, like, manifests her power or whatever, and, like, literally, all they do is they just have, like, a bright light shine over her or whatever the fuck.

C: She doesn't even have fire powers! [both laughing]

G: And I was like, "Huh?" And I literally looked up like, "I don't think that's what she's up to!" And it literally isn't. And, like, the thing is like, earlier, they had- Like, earlier from that, they had Gabriel make a sex joke about how she has many hands. [C: Yeah.] And I feel like they can make a setup-payoff for that. Do some good CGI or whatever. Honestly, if they did, I'd probably be mad in different ways, [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] but like, I don't know. It's kind of funny that they tried to set it up, and then they just did absolutely nothing with it.

C: Yeah. Oh, I'm seeing in my notes that on the Wiki it said that "Hammer of the Gods" did not air in India. I wonder why. [laughs]

G: I wonder why.

C: So, like, they knew? Like, at some point, somebody knew, like, "What you're doing is fucked up." But like, too late, or they didn't care?

G: Maybe it's like, they knew when- 'Cause you do have to vet that shit, and I'm assuming, you know, the local networks need to vet that shit.

C: Right. So it came too late.

G: Yeah. So like, when they were vetting, they were like, "Let's not show this" probably.

C: Yeah. We've got Ganesh, major Hindu god, we all know him. We have Kali who we met earlier, also major Hindu god. We have Baldur and Odin, who are [both] Norse gods, and Mercury, who is a [both] Roman god. And that's everyone, right?

G: Yeah, I feel like- [C: Yeah?] I mean, the fact that they didn't just pick one mythology is kind of- I don't know. What do you think about that? They took from different, like, pantheons. What's your opinion on that? Because what the episode is trying to do is, everyone needs to get together.

C: Yeah, they're trying to set up a- Yeah, all the polytheistic gods have to get together to defeat Lucifer. And then it's like, "No. [laughs] They can't. None of them can."

G: Like, because it's just honestly, it's just- Like, the story Supernatural is trying to tell of like, "It's undefeatable. Like, Michael and Lucifer are so powerful." [C laughs] It's just incompatible with this. They just shouldn't have done it because there's no way to incorporate it.

C: Yeah, no, just the idea of the episode being like, "Well, Lucifer's soo cool and strong and powerful, and also, nyeh-nyeh-nyeh-nyeh-nyeh, my God is stronger than your God." Like, okay, why? [laughs]

G: The thing is, we can do all our, "Okay, if we were to do this episode another way-"

C: Yeah, have small edits that make it less racist. But the central conceit just shouldn't have been done.

G: Yeah. Yeah. But it is still in the season where the season will end, and Sam and Dean, fuckass guys from fuckass nowhere, [C laughs] will defeat Lucifer and Michael.

C: [laughing] No, literally, Sam will defeat Lucifer. [laughs]

G: And then the point of that is like, "It's so unique from the fact that all of these powerful other gods couldn't do it." And it's like, "Well, whatever!"

C: Interesting. What are you saying with that? "Sam and Dean defeated them through the power of love and through the power of American individualism!" [laughs]

G: And also, another- I mean, I'm just being, like, pedantic now, but, like, the fact that they were like, Lucifer and Michael and etc and Gabriel and stuff are not God. [C: Yeah.] They're angels. And like-

C: They're literally some guy. [G laughs]

G: They're also some guys from fuckass nowhere! [C laughs]

C: Fuckass nowhere being Heaven.

G: Yeah. And like, I don't know, like, the equating that they do is incredibly frustrating. And, I mean, okay, I'll just get it out of the way. Supernatural, obviously, also not the pinnacle of other religions other than Christianity in any way. [laughs] Honestly, also not the pinnacle of Christianity. It's not the pinnacle of anything. [C laughs] Supernatural's just a bad show. But I mean, like, later on, we have a scene where Michael shows up in front of a Muslim man who is praying. Do you know of this?

C: You told me about it once.

G: Yeah. Barring the like, cultural and, like, religious implications of that, especially for Muslim people who have watched the episode, and I know some people who felt ugh about it, the show presents this as an equal. They were, I think what they were trying to do is like, "It's the same gods," so like, the gods from Christianity and the gods from Islam- "gods" plural. [laughs] I'm just realizing that. But like, the figures in Islam and Christianity are the same. That's what Supernatural was trying to say in that scene. And I have a lot of problems with that idea. I mean, everybody knows. I come from a very Catholic place and a very Catholic family, but we do have family members who are other religions, and the reason I bring that up is because for example, when my aunt converted to Islam, that was the way that a lot of my family members tried to pacify themselves, right? By being like, "Oh, but it's the same. Like, they believe in the same God. It's just a different name." And I think that is a reductive way to look at it. It's like something you would say to, like, a fucking second-grader, [laughs] you know, to be like, "Don't be mean to other people," but like, I think it's reductive. But like, that is the idea that Supernatural was trying to peddle. What that implies, though, is at some point it would be so different that it's just not true anymore. And that is- like, we see the end of that thought process here in this episode, where it's not the same idea. Hinduism is very different from Christianity. And then, suddenly, it's like, lesser. And I don't know. The reason why I'm telling this is because, like, the ideas supporting this episode- we're not just being, like, pedantic or being haters for no reason. Like, these are ideas that are actually present in real life. Like, people apply them, and even well-meaning people apply them to their experiences. And it's just- it's so horrible to see it not only be present in this episode, but also taken to its worst conclusion, which is what Supernatural is doing. This is like, the worst conclusion of this thought process. And they're doing it in like, some fuckass episode of Season 5. [C laughs]

C: Yeah. You could cut this episode out. It does nothing for anybody.

G: You can literally just have Gabriel send-

C: Yeah, he's nice now. He just sends you a video.

G: Yeah, but like, it'll be like, he dies offscreen or something. I don't know. It's- yeah. It's bad. Yay! [laughs]

C: Yay!

C: Baldur is presiding over this meeting.

G: Yeah, [laughs] and he calls it the Judeo-Christian apocalypse.

C: Yeah. Well, he says the ground rules are that they can't slaughter each other, they have to curb their wrath, and they have to keep their hands off the local virgins, which I think- which I hate. [G: Yeah.] [laughs] Well, anyway. It's just the idea that like, "Oh, you know, these are all gods, but like, they're icky. Like, they're bad. Like, look." Later, Lucifer has this line where it's like, "Oh, you icky icky pagans, you're always infighting, and that's why you can never do anything right," and like, it's not just like, "Oh, he's Lucifer, and he's being an asshole." I think it's like, "Yes, so true!" Like, I think we're supposed to believe him and agree with him because the gods themselves are introducing themselves in this way in this episode. Like, "Wow, we do infight, and we're so evil and wrathful, and also eat virgins." Like, no. [laughs]

G: Like, Kali has a whole thing later where she's like, she has her girlboss monologue. [C laughs] Or, I suppose, like, polytheistic god monologue is what she has where she's like, "Oh, you Westerners think that you're blah blah blah."

C: Yeah. And Lucifer goes, "Yep," and then kills everyone.

G: And like, the thing is like, that monologue, I feel like fucking Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin thought they were fucking doing something, [C laughs] but they just completely- the rest of the episode is the way it is, man. [laughs] Like, you can't-

C: We'll get to it when we get to it, I suppose. But yeah. I don't think I need to factcheck every single god's mythology to know that not all of them eat virgins. [G: Yeah.] [laughs] But I did check, and not all of them eat virgins. [G laughs] What a surprise. [G: Yeah.] I don't even know if any of them eat virgins. I think none of them-

G: I think that's like, dragons. [laughs] I feel like that's a dragon lore or something.

C: [laughing] Dragons, which also show up in Supernatural, but not here. The only blood sacrifices practiced for any of these gods are animal sacrifices. But yeah, anyway, maybe some of the animals don't fuck. I don't think that's a requirement, though. [laughs] So anyway, he calls it the Judeo-Christian apocalypse, which is like- I don't know. I think it's just an extension of like, "What's close enough to be close." Because in that Michael scene you described, they decided that Islam is [both] close enough. There is an Apocalypse described in some Islamic texts, but I guess it's not close enough here, but it is Judeo and Christian? Okay. Their plan is to use Sam and Dean, who are very valuable bargaining chips, in some way to stop the Apocalypse. And Zao Shen, who only speaks in Cantonese this episode, as we've mentioned, just goes, like, "We kill them!" Alright, alright. Whatever. Whatever.

G: I mean, Sam and Dean? They should kill them. [laughs]

C: Yeah, no, for real. No, because, okay, regarding the afterlife in Supernatural, right?These other gods are real. They have physical forms. Sam and Dean went to the Christian Heaven. If a god from another religion kills them, can they go to a different afterlife that Zachariah can't get them in? [laughs]

G: I mean, like, I don't know, man. Like, the way Joshua said it during "Dark Side of the Moon," he was like, "You see here what you want to see."

C: Well, in the Garden of Eden, not in general.

G: Hinduism, does it not- they go alive again. I forgot the term. [laughs]

C: Reincarnate?

G: You reincarnate! [laughs] "They go alive again." [C laughs] So like, I don't know. Maybe Sam and Dean can reincarnate as not humans, and then, like, it really disenfranchises Lucifer and Michael.

C: Yeah, I think they [laughs] did a bad enough job while being alive that they wouldn't come back as people. [G laughs] But yeah. Ganesh says that if they kill them, the angels will bring them back again. Okay, and then they start doing this fucking humorous, I suppose, scene where Odin's like, "There's no such thing as Armageddon, because when the world ends, a snake is gonna eat everything, and I'm gonna be eaten by a wolf." And Zao Shen's like, "That's dumb." And he's like, "Oh, 'cause your beliefs are so much more realistic? The whole world getting carried around on the back of a giant turtle? Give me a break." Okay, I would like to say that it's not on the back of a turtle, but like, four legs got cut off of a turtle, and they were used to prop up the sky, so there! [both laugh] But yeah. It's just another case of like, absolutely no research. Like, "What's a thing that sounds dumb that we can put in here?"

G: Yeah, and also, like, obviously, like, I mean, if we're going to do what's unrealistic or not, I feel like Christianity [laughs] isn't really realistic, you guys.

C: Yeah. Like, that guy turned water into wine. Doesn't he know how chemistry works?

G: Literally. What the fuck is he fermenting in there? This is stupid shit.

C: But yeah, I think it's just this whole thing where it's like, "What's something that we think is super super unrealistic that we can bring up to make fun of these religions?" And it's like, okay, why is this super unrealistic, but angels and whatever who are also unscientific, if you're just using science as the, like, benchmark for what's realistic or not like, why are they fine? And also like, I guess it's-

G: We literally have the Adam and Eve religion that has pushed back against scientific revolution. [both laughing] Like, what are you doing, man?

C: No, literally. Literally. Like, Copernicus died for that. And it's also just very irritating that it's like, I don't. They're bringing up things that are like, I guess it's like, objectively aren't reality. So it's already bringing up the- We already know that they consider these religions as less legit. But like, now, they're like, "And part of the beliefs of these- Like, if this religion was real, then the world would be on the back of a giant turtle. And it's not. So this religion is already fake. Like, done! Did it!" [G: Yeah.] Sam and Dean tried to escape during this, but a chandelier falls down in front of them, controlled by Kali. And she says that what they have to do is fight, because the only thing that the archangels understand is violence, and it's them or us.

G: Can I say something as well? [C: Yeah.] They make a point of talking about the gods' ages this episode. It's brought up here, and it's brought up later, who's older and etc. I just wanted to bring it up. [laughs] I have nothing to say.

C: No, I guess this idea that some of these religions are older, but the angels and God and Christianity were, like, here the whole time, and they were the real ones the whole time. It's just no one knew about it and wrote a book yet. That's the vibe?

G: Yeah, and I don't know.I think a part of it also was like, they were trying to do a like, "Oh, it was like, before. Like, it was like, primitive, or like, before-"

C: Yes, which Dean says as a word.

G: Oh, yeah. Oh my god. [both laugh] I've completely forgotten that as well. [C screams] Well, yeah. And this specific conversation, including Dean's boyboss moment [laughs] or whatever [C laughing] [C: Words can mean anything.], this was the part where I literally was like- I just stood up and started pacing. I was like, "I can't do this shit anymore." [laughs] Supernatural's a bad show. [C screams]

C: Yeah. Who'd have thunk. It's just like, "The age of a religion doesn't lend it legitimacy, nothing about any of these religions lend it legitimacy because the only legitimate God is the Christian God," etc, etc, etc. "And also, the fact that they're an older religion actually makes them more bloodthirsty and like, kill people and eat people and blah blah blah!" It's just-

G: It's also so severely like, callous. Like, they don't show God in Supernatural, because they know what that would mean.

C: You mean Jesus?

G: Like- oh. [laughs] They do show God in Supernatural. [laughing]

C: Yeah, we met him. [G: Oh, yeah.] And they left him a whimpering mess on the side of the road also.

G: [laughing] Maybe Supernatural is secretly progressive. [both laughing]

C: No, but I was thinking about the fact that they never show Jesus, and the fact that didn't Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki have an interview where they're like, "We talked to the showrunner, and we all decided that it would be, like, insensitive to portray Jesus in Supernatural ever, so we just didn't"? It was like, "Interesting."

G: They portrayed God the Father.

C: Yeah. But like, aren't Christians all about Jesus? [laughing] I mean, you're a Christian. Are you all about Jesus Christ?

G: I would say Jesus, it's quite down the list for me, but that's because I live in a particularly Marianist culture, so we're more on the Mama Mary stuff.

C: Right. I feel like Protestants, they're like, bigger on Jesus or whatever. I feel like a lot of Christians hang on to Jesus because they're like, "He's what separates us from Jewish people, and also he was nicer, and also, blah blah blah, antisemitic statement about the Old Testament God being evil but the New Testament God not being."

G: I think there is this whole- I did not actually read the book, but I did attend the book launch. [both laugh] Wonderful. This fucking like, retrospective- It's like, 500 years of Christianity in the Philippines now, and like, it's like, a fucking retrospective of like, what is like the manifestations, blah blah blah blah blah. And, like, they did point out that, like, we are a particularly Marianist society, blah blah. And, like, a part of it is that we were also like, pagan worshippers before, like, colonialism, and so like- And also the saints. Like, Marianist and the saints. But like, the thing about Christianity is like- Well, the thing about the Philippines is like we were not a settler colony, so like, the Spanish were not here, like, for real for real, so like, a lot of the, like, sharing of- [laughs] "sharing." [C laughing] A lot of the whatever they did with regards to Catholicism, like, they had to incorporate it in a more local way, which is, I think, true for everywhere where they did that, and so, like, a lot of our worship is more representative of that kind of pagan background where you have, like, a thing for everyone. I mean, that's the whole point of the saints and like, Mama Mary, etc. So, like, I don't know. I think we're not that into Jesus, honestly. [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] But people also say that Philippine Catholicism specifically is more folk Christianity than Catholicism, which I push back against, but I do think that is coming from somewhere. So I don't know. I think my point here is [laughing] I am not representative of the Catholic Church or whatever the fuck. [laughs]

C: Yeah, makes sense. Well, Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki are representative of Christianity to me, [G laughs] and I think the fact that they said that about Jesus is very funny.

G: Aren't they Christian? Like, what's their situation?

C: I'd assume so. I mean, most people in the US are.

G: Jensen Ackles thanked God in like, his speech once. [C laughs] Like, he received an award for A Day in the Life or whatever-

C: [laughs] Wait, he did?

G: YYeah. Is it called Day in the Life? [C: I have no clue.] Days of Our Lives. [C: Days of Our Lives.]

G: Yeah. He received a-

C: Whatever. I don't want to make fun of his practice if that's what he's into.

G: I'm just saying that we know that he's... something. [laughs] We actually don't know anything, so. He did say, like, "First of all, I would like to thank God."

C: So he's like, more Christian than the average Christian guy, I think.

G: Why? People don't usually-

C: Are people thanking gods in their- thanking God in their speech that much? I feel like that was like for footballers, only. [laughs] I have a very skewed idea of what Christianity is like.

G: Yeah, Christianity is for when you're playing basketball and you shoot that shot, and then you do like, a little sign of the cross-

C: And then you kiss your hand- [both] and you raise it up.

G: Yeah, exactly. [laughs]

C: Kali was stating the argument for staying and fighting the archangels. Mercury suggests talking to them, and Kali starts to choke him so that he starts coughing up blood, but then Baldur forces her to stop, which is just, I guess, another example of the whole, "Oh, all of you pagan gods are so, like, violent, and you can't get along with each other," blah blah blah blah shit.

G: Also- It will take us forever to get through the scene, but also like, why are they wearing name tags again?

C: No, literally. [laughs] Like, don't they know each other?

G: Because from all of this, I feel like they kind of know each other.

C: Yeah, they're making specific digs at each other. I think they- I mean, maybe they only know what digs to make because of the name tags. Who knows?

G: [laughs] Yeah. I feel like the name tag feels very much like a "When we're speaking, we want Sam and Dean to know who we are." [both laugh]

C: They did it for them. Perhaps so. But yeah, Gabriel shows up, and he says, "Can't we all just get along?" And he silences Sam and Dean so they can't talk. And apparently, he is known to them as Loki. I don't know. Stupid elephant joke, blah blah blah, and he sends Sam and Dean off into their hotel room so that he can talk to everybody.

C: Sam and Dean zap back in their hotel room, are making a plan. And Dean says that he's gonna get those people out of the freezer, and then he's gonna "gank a few freaks along the way if we're lucky." Which I mean, "freak" is a quite a loaded word in Supernatural already. It's very specific to like- I don't know. It's like, bad. It's like, very specific to monsters who are bad, like, inhuman people, or whatever whatever. Again, it's just that they make these gods cannibalistic for no reason in order to justify Dean being so so so so racist. [G: Yeah.] But like, I think he is like still worse to them than he is to other cannibalistic monsters. [both laugh]

G: The only monster he is worse towards is witches, who he hates particularly, I think, because they're women. And to these guys, I think, because he's racist! [both laugh]

C: Yeah. I think that is the case.

Gabriel shows up. I don't know. They just try to do Debriel this episode to distract us from them being racist?

G: I can't believe this is Gabriel's last episode until fucking Season 13. And people still ship Sabriel, like, for real. They were committed to it.

C: Maybe they have some good moments in Season 13.

G: No, I mean, before Season 13, Sabriel was the biggest Sam ship or something. [C: Huh!] Like, they brought back Gabriel specifically to cater to the Sabriel ship. Like, I'm not kidding. [C: Huh!] They brought it back, and they did all that fanservice. "I need you, Gabriel." What's wrong with them?

C: [laughs] Well, maybe they were going where the story was taking them.

Gabriel says that he's here to save Sam and Dean because he doesn't care about them, but apparently he and Kali had a thing, I guess, while he was lying to her about his identity. He makes a joke about how she was "all hands." It feels quite gross to use, like, religious iconography for a sex joke. [G: Yeah.] Not a fan. Sam asks, like, "Hey, what if we team up with them and try to defeat Satan? Do they have a chance?" And Gabriel goes, "No, Lucifer's just gonna kill them so hard and so raw." Why? Why, though? [laughs] I know we've asked this many times, but why? I think the Wiki tries to reason with it by saying- The Wiki just thinks that the power of the nature of the gods come from how many people follow the religion, and it also says, "In the Supernatural universe, clearly there are fewer followers of Hinduism, because Ganesh is killed so quickly." [laughs] [G: Bruh.] They're trying so hard.

G: "Why don't we erase the Indian subcontinent in the Supernatural universe to make the plot make sense?" [laughs]

C: This is just like how in Doctor Who, the Sontarans took over Russia and China, [laughing] and there's no longer Russia and China. But yeah, like, first off, Hinduism, third largest religion, as I've mentioned. Chinese folk religion, by the broadest definition, about 70% of the Chinese population follows Chinese folk religion, but I'd say the population that actually celebrates Zao Shen on Little New Year is like smaller. Like, I feel like if you just add those two numbers up already, like, you're good. [laughs] Like, you've defeated Christianity. [G laughs] But yeah, whatever. And Gabriel says that he can't just zap Sam and Dean out of there because Kali has a blood spell that binds both of them. This is also not a power that she has. I don't get why they keep trying to make up stuff!

G: I kept trying to look for this blood thing. I tried to look for it because I was like, [C laughs] "Surely it's like, something."

C: Like, "Surely, they didn't just make this up for no reason."

G: They made it up. They fully made it up. What's wrong with them?

C: Why? [laughing] Like, why?

G: I mean, this is where the like, just complete lack of consideration or research or anything comes in because just a little bit of digging, you can find literally anything else to do. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, I really don't get it. Like, none of the gods do anything regarding their powers except Ganesh turns into an elephant once.

G: Except Mercury. And Mercury has winged feet or whatever.

C: Yeah. He walks fast. I don't know.

G: I mean, Dean also runs fast. [both laugh] That's nothing.

C: But yeah, and Gabriel's like, "Don't worry. I'll get you out of here because while I have sex with Kali, I'll steal your blood back." Gabriel says that they shouldn't try to save the people in the freezer, and then Dean threatens to tell everyone that he's Gabriel, not Loki, unless he follows the Winchester's plan. I think, eventually, Gabriel's like, "Fine. I'll let you save the freezer people." I don't know. There's an exchange that's meant to be funny, and I guess it is funny compared to other things on the episode. [G: Yeah.] Where Gabriel was like, "I'll take your voices away," and Dean says, "We'll write it down." Then, he says, "I'll cut off your hands," and Dean says, "Well, then, people are gonna be asking, 'Why are you guys running around with no hands?'" [laughs] Pretty funny.

G: [laughs] Yeah. I mean, something I also want to point out is that Gabriel needed to be fucking convinced to let those people out of the freezer. And also that-

C: [laughing] And later, he's like, "And I'm doing this because I've grown to love Earth and its people!" [G laughs] What?

G: And also, he explicitly is doing this because he's "sentimental," as he puts it. Because he cares about these gods, and they're his family or whatever. Like, that's the thing.

C: Well, he cares about Kali specifically.

G: Yeah. Well, he did not give a fuck when everyone else died. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] I mean, it's just so frustrating that they tried to set up this thing, and then at the end, they're still like, "But ultimately, it's people who are the best!" [C laughing] Yeah, this is literally-

C: Just bad writing. I feel the people who are like, "'Hammer of the Gods' is a watchable episode" are like, "It's such a good Gabriel episode," but like, they're not even consistent with Gabriel character writing in any way whatsoever.

G: Yeah, like, Gabriel has literally never given a single shit about people. Is it actually so bad if he cares about these gods? Is it actually so horrible? Would that completely destroy whatever it is they're trying to do in Supernatural?

C: Christian supremacy.

G: I don't know. I mean, I don't even think it's Christian supremacy because he's still very paternalistic with them, even when it's like- it's never like they're equals.

C: Yeah, what they're trying to do with Supernatural is just "People have free will, and no one else does, and that makes them the best" or whatever whatever. But also like, only white Americans.

G: Yeah, and like, specially in comparison to everyone else who are secretly monsters. Angels? Monsters. Demons? Monsters. Vampires? Monsters. These polytheistic gods? Monsters. Like, only- [both laughing] What the fuck is wrong with this show?

C: Yeah, I mean, I think they're just doing the fantasy racism thing where humans means white people and all of the-

G: Yeah, and also doing the racist- racism racist things. [both laugh]

C: Yeah, and the racism racism. Okay, these gods do know each other because Kali had like, a romantic/sexual thing going on with Baldur. Like, why were they wearing name tags? [both laugh] Whatever, anyway.

G: Is it because the audience won't know? But like, I feel like if you already didn't know who Kali was, it doesn't matter. To you, if you're just watching it, that's just the woman on screen.

C: Yeah, and it's not like they use anything from the actual mythology of any of these gods.

G: And also, it's not like these characters are characterized so well or representative of whatever it is that they're trying to represent that you're like, "Wow, I really wish I knew that god's name so I can look it up. I'm so curious, I'm so interested." Like, that's never gonna happen, so why were they in name tags? [laughs]

C: I don't know. I don't know. It was literally just so they could flash the illustrations of them being scary? But you can just do that without even having the name tags.

G: Yeah. You can just zoom into a blank part of a t-shirt.

C: Whatever. We're getting really stuck on this name tag thing, but still.

G: It is mind-boggling. It's a mind-boggling choice.

C: It's just really dumb-looking.

G: So Kali's in her room and she's, I think, taking off her earrings or whatever. And Gabriel comes in. Kali's like, "Don't want you here." and Gabriel goes, "You always did play hard to get." And Kali's like, "Oh, I've moved on and everything." Gabriel's like, "Oh, you're with Baldur now." and Kali goes, "Baldur's uncomplicated." [both laugh]

C: She has an actual- like, she has a husband in the mythology. [G: Ah!] Yeah, I don't know. They have one god here who is a woman, and she's an Asian woman. Supernatural's track record with Asian women is horrible already. [G: Yeah.] And it's like, I don't know. Her main thing is that she's hot and redeemable because she's hot?

G: Yeah, and she has a white guy ex-boyfriend.

C: Yeah, and a white guy boyfriend.

G: Current. And also because Dean hits on her. [C: Yeah.] And also, in this situation, nobody else in this group of gods have romantic partners other than Kali and her boyfriend. Like, okay. Well. [C: Yeah.] What the hell?

C: Her cross-religion boyfriend.

G: Yeah. Wow, interfaith relationship representation! [laughs]

C: That's the word. [G: Yeah.] Don't know. Just, choices. Choices were certainly made. Should they have been? No. [laughs]

G: Sam and Dean are like trying to get fucking people out of the fridge or whatever. I forgot what they're doing. They're trying to get out?

C: I think they're trying to get the people out of the fridge, but then they've realize that it's too late because they're getting killed already. [G: Nice.] Where did they get the cannibalism from? [laughs] Like, why? [G: I don't know.] I think it's just like, older religion equals primitive equals human sacrifice equals "Thank god, we can kill them." Like, I feel like that was the thought process.

G: I mean, yeah, definitely.

C: And it's like, well, don't. [laughs]

G: Did they already bring out that fucking head of a guy? Or is that later.

C: They brought it out when Sam and Dean get brought in to the conference room. Mercury or someone says, "Dinner is served," and it's the head of a guy.

G: That's later, or that's already-?

C: No, that was earlier. That was like in the gods' intros.

G: I hated that scene, too. They didn't even cook that guy right. [C laughs] [C: For real.] I have sat beside an open fire pit rotating a fucking pig in my life, and like, they didn't even do that to this guy. [both laughing] This poor guy, his skin is so uncrispy! What are they doing?

C: Yeah, no. Whenever there's like, a meat dish, and it's like, bad, it's like, something died for this. [G: No, yeah.] [laughs] Try a little harder.

G: Yeah, Gabriel and Kali are like, semi-flirting or whatever.

C: Gabriel says that they should leave and check out Pandora. Where? What does he mean? They didn't even do research on Greek mythology?

G: I was kind of confused by this. I was like, "Are they gonna go to the jewelry shop?" [laughs]

C: Are they going to the jewelry shop? Are they going to see the woman of Greek mythology? That's not a place.

G: Yeah, "We're gonna go to the Mall of America." is what Gabriel meant. [C laughs] Why are these guys here in fucking Indiana? [C: I don't know.] Fuckass nowhere Indiana?

C: No, literally. The point is like, "You Westerners, blah blah blah." Like, okay, was it just wherever Sam and Dan were? But like, the hotel signage was already "Elysian Fields," so like, it was- Well, that was like Greek, though, and there's only a Roman god here. There's not a Greek god here. [G: Yeah.] So actually, I don't know. So it's not like it was formerly owned by Mercury, unless it's also called Elysian Fields in Roman mythology?

G: I mean, allegedly, it's for Sam and Dean, but like-

C: I also think that they should be powerful enough to just zap them to wherever they want, but clearly not, according to Supernatural.

G: Gabriel's trying to convince her to not do all this and just leave, whatever. Anyway, they start making out. And then this is interspersed with, like, Sam and Dean trying to get people out of the freezer. I don't know. They get stopped, and at the same time, Kali reveals that she has gotten Gabriel's blood. So it, like, works on angels, too? Like, that's a vessel. You can just zap out of the vessel.

C: I mean, maybe not? In that case, she could've just gotten Lucifer's blood, and like, we would have been fine. [laughs] [G: Yeah.] But no, she's just too weak.

G: That literally could have been the game plan.

C: Literally. Just get Kali to like, do her blood magic, which isn't actually part of her role in Hinduism, on Lucifer.

G: Yeah. And then just like, make him stay in a room. Captive archangel.

C: Literally just stay in a room. Gabriel's an archangel. Lucifer's an archangel. I don't think he's more powerful.

G: As they, like, go out, I don't know.

C: So is the Ghostfacers ad part of the episode, or?

G: [laughing] No, okay, I forgot about- I forgot literally everything about this episode. But yeah, there is a Ghostfacers ad. I don't think it's part of an episode. I think they're, at this point, trying to-

C: Advertise the webseries?

G: Yeah, the webseries, which- Should we watch that?

C: Already seen a clip with Cas in it, which is the only-

G: Yeah, it's the only important thing. Yeah, [laughs] there's an Asian woman there, too.

C: Yeah. Maggie Zeddmore.

G: Yeah. Hi, Maggie!

C: Hi, Maggie again! Yeah, there's an advertisement for the Ghostfacers webseries. It seems to be around them having a new intern, is sort of the thing that happens in the ad. I don't know. They are pretty funny. It ends with, "If you're dead, you better stay dead. Because if not, we're gonna kill you." [both laugh]

G: Which is, of course, the Supernatural motto of all time. [C: Yeah.] "Saving people, hunting things, the family business" is out. "If you're dead, you better stay dead. 'Cause if not, we're gonna kill you" is in.

C: I wish I was watching the Ghostfacers webseries and not this episode. [G laughs] [G: Honestly-' Maybe that's why they put it in this episode. They're like, "You hate racism? Come, give us money on our Ghostfacers webseries."

G: Yeah, I mean, honestly, the Ghostfacers song is still pretty good. [laughs] Like, it's still very fun. "Ghostfacers!"

C: Yeah. What is it? "We face the ghosts when the others will not"?

G: Love that!

C: Oh, yeah, during the reveal that Kali has Gabriel's blood, she also reveals that she knows that he's Gabriel and not Loki. They all show up back in the conference room.

G: I feel like they could have chosen a better hotel. [C laughs] Sam says it's a four-star hotel.

C: I guess they needed one that wasn't so fancy that Sam and Dean wouldn't go. Yeah, I was a bit surprised that this was considered a four-star hotel. Maybe I'm like, a snob, though.

G: Oh, I'm definitely a snob.

C: I've really only been in hotels in China. Or like, I've been to some US hotels, but not many, and I think maybe the standards are different.

G: I have been to hotels where I didn't stay, but like, I would be in the event hall or whatever.

C: Yeah, lobbies and things are usually done up way nicer than the rooms.

G: Yeah, and like, the room, fine, whatever. Sometimes there's a crappy room in a four-star hotel. But like, fucking... the ballroom hall? The grand ballroom hall of a fucking four-star hotel looks like this?

C: I guess they just fixed it up. Like, it was kind of decrepit before, so maybe they didn't put all the decor in that it previously had?

G: Can't they just manifest, like, a new one? Whatever. Who give a shit. This episode is bad in all the levels.

C: They can't even defeat Lucifer, Grey. They can't have any interior decorating powers.

G: Yeah, they can't hire the Property Brothers? Like, come on. [laughs]

C: God! What a show that was so boring!

G: Property Brothers? [C: Yeah.] It's like Supernatural if Sam and Dean were Property Brothers. [C laughs] [C: Yeah, exactly.] Yeah, I have actually never seen that show.

C: I mean, nothing on HGTV is interesting. It's HGTV.

G: What are other HGTV shows?

C: Uh, Love It or List It. Um...

G: I love the show that's like, they go in, and they're like, "I want that truck." [laughs]

C: What?

G: But it's not a truck.

C: This isn't on HGTV, is it?

G: No no no, it's like, it's not a truck, but it's like, the back of the truck, and they don't know what's inside, and they're like, "I want that one." I don't think it's the back of the truck, but it looks like the back of a truck. It's like a big box, and they open it.

C: What? What is this show?

G: [laughs] And then they bid on it! Storage Unit! Storage Wars?

C: Is this is a HGTV show?

G: Storage Wars. This is a show in- It's an American reality show in the AME network, so I was completely wrong. I mean, HGTV.

C: I mean, House Hunter's the big one.

G: House Hunters. Is this the little house? Small house?

C: No, House Hunters is just general a house-finding show. I think that there's a tiny house show, yeah. There's whichever show Chip and Joanna do. Yeah. Anyway, this has been shows that are on HGTV. [G: Nice.]

Okay, so they're in the ballroom, which has bad interior decor. So Kali takes Gabriel's archangel blade.

G: Oh, this is the first time we see an archangel blade, which I think is significant. I don't think they really do a good job of showing that it looks different. They do a very bad job on everything this episode, including that one.

C: And she's she doesn't trust Gabriel anymore with his whole like, "You gotta leave and not try to defeat Lucifer" blah blah blah. And this is where Kali's speech goes. So Gabriel says, "I've skipped ahead, and I've seen how the story ends." And she says, "Your story. Not ours. Westerners, I swear. The sheer arrogance. You think you're the only ones on Earth? You pillage and you butcher in your God's name. But you're not the only religion, and he's not the only God. And now you think you can just rip the planet apart? You're wrong. There are billions of us. An we were here first. If anyone gets to end this world, it's me." And then, she says, "I'm sorry." and stabs Gabriel. But yeah, okay. So, I don't know. Thoughts? We've mentioned this speech before.

G: Yeah. Bad! No, I mean, they thought they were trying to do something. [C: Yeah.] It's just that everything else they did was also so bad, it's unreal, so this doesn't matter. This doesn't mean anything.

C: Yeah, I think it's the fact that it's like, so you understand that this is a race thing, what you're doing here, and you still did the rest of it? [G: Yeah.] Like, they explicitly made it a race thing, and then they killed all of them. Like, in some ways, it makes it worse. [laughs]

G: I want to know what the thought process of making this episode was! Were they like, "No, we should do this. It's so cool, it's so cool." And someone was like, "Um, I feel like it's a bit... [C laughs] racist?" And they were like, "Oh, I know what we're going to do. We're going to-"

C: "Oh, don't worry. Don't worry about that."

G: "We're going to put a fucking monologue where the one Asian woman in here goes, 'Ugh, you guys are so racist!'" And it's like- [both laughing] They should hire us. We'd succeed at that. I feel like we can do that very effectively.

C: Yeah, no. I agree. It's time. She sets this up as a thing, and then later, when Lucifer kills all of them, it's like, "Well, now they are the only religion."

G: Yeah. And also like, it's so- you know, "There's billions of us." There's like, five people in this room or whatever, and like, I don't know. It's just the idea that, like-

C: They're representative of like, [G: Yeah.] all the people who are Hindus or follow any of the other religions here. [G: Yeah.] It makes the murders worse. [G: Yeah.] 'Cause it's like, "This is Supernatural's stand-in for people outside of the US. It's like, these five people in this room, and we're gonna kill all but one."

G: Yeah. And also, like, you know, like, her just being like, "There's so many of us." Where's that fucking number, man? Supernatural makes it such that they are representative of one aspect of their religion, and their conception of it is "Oh, she's gonna be less powerful than Lucifer," who's not even God, by the way. [C: Yeah.] But like, the idea that they're doing is like, the power is like fucking separated, or like, you know, it's rationed between the gods or whatever. And it's like, it's just so stupid. Everything's so stupid. And yeah, like, it's incredibly disrespectful, obviously?

C: What? It's- it's what? What? Huh? Really?

G: Yeah. Apparently, it's not obvious, this reveal, yeah. [C laughs] No one has ever said that "Hammer of the Gods" is disrespectful, ever. We're the first ones to ever do that.

C: We're so brave. [G laughs] I don't know. I feel like there should be more to say with this about this speech, but I don't know if there is. It's just- The actress is trying the best with the material she's given, but everything about the rest of the episode just laughs in the face of this.

G: Also, the fact that they call this Apocalypse the "Judeo-Christian apocalypse," and then here, they equate that to, like, Westerners, and being like, "Oh, you pillage and butcher in your God's name," which is, you know, like, yeah. But, like, the fact that they called it Judeo? Judeo-Christian? [laughs] Like, what's wrong with Supernatural? It's like, it's just- it's so- I don't know. It feels antisemitic to have that lumped together as like, [C: Yeah.] "Judaism is part of the Western world that went to other countries with the pillaging and the butchering."

C: Yeah. Like, who did the Crusades again? Hmm.

G: Like, okay. What the fuck?

C: After she stabs Gabriel, he screams and dies, it seems. And Kali's like, "Okay, great. Well, we can now use this blade to kill Lucifer." And then Dean says truly a line. He says, "Alright, you primitive screwheads. Listen up."

G: This entire thing is wild.

C: Why'd he say that? Why'd he say that?

G: They just did the Kali speech. Like, they just did the Kali speech. And then, Dean literally goes, "Okay. Enough of that progressive bullshit."

C: Like, "You're calling me racist? I'll show you racist." [laughs]

G: Why am I in shock? [laughs]

C: Why'd he do that? Why did he do that?

G: Many people are asking this question.

C: And okay, Sam, who, I don't know, took one world religions class at Stanford, is like, "Are you out of your mind?" Dean says that he's out of options, and that on any other day, he'd be doing his damnedest to kill "you filthy, murdering chimps." I think that it is not difficult to understand the racial implications of that phrase, [laughs] especially directed at gods who include Black men. But, you know. Whatever. And then he says again, "Though I'd love nothing better to just slit your throats," he says, "I'm gonna help you ice the devil." Why would they need your help, Dean? Like, you're literally some guy.

G: They literally should just kill you. [C: Yeah.] Like, I think if they just keep Sam and Dean like, I don't know, away. Like, they just put them in a room. This is my solution to everything.

C: Take their voices away. If you just kept their voices away forever, like, couldn't they not say yes to Michael and Lucifer?

G: Yeah, and then cut off their hands when they can't write, too. Like, come on. [laughs]

C: Exactly! And then he says, "And then we can all get back to ganking each other like normal."

G: Why do you feel like they want to kill you like? That's your problem. You're so self-important. You think about yourself so much, Dean Winchester. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, I don't- You just met all these people today. Like, I don't think you're gonna go back to chasing each other around and killing each other or whatever. They have better things to do, and better places to be. [G: Yeah.] He says that he and Sam can get Lucifer here. Untrue. Only Sam is involved in this.

G: Yeah. He's inflating his role.

C: And he says that it'll help as long as they let the rest of the people in the freezer go.

G: So Sam and Dean and are now ushering all the people out, and they're running, and Gabriel "psst!"s at Dean from the car. Dean goes in, and they start having this heart to heart. Oh, also, Sam is not ushering these people. Sam’s like, fucking inside. Dean and Gabriel has this heart to heart where Dean's like, "Wow, man. I thought you died." And Gabriel's like, "No! I'm not gonna give her my real sword." Gabriel says that Dean needs to get their blood so they can go, and Dean goes, "No. Hand over the real blade. Better yet, why don't you sack up and help us take down Lucifer?" Gabriel's like, "Why are you doing all this? Why are you buddies with all of these monsters? That's what they all are to you, right?"

C: What were they trying to do with this? [G: I don't know.] This specific- Gabriel meant it like he's criticizing Dean for thinking that way. Is he?

G: For, like, thinking they're all monsters? [C: Yes?] Yeah.

C: He says pointedly. Yeah, okay. Is he just offended because he doesn't think Kali is a monster? [laughs] Like, he's totally fine with everyone else dying. [G

G: I mean, I don't know. They tried to do the thing where like, "Those are your real family." [C: Yeah.] Anyway, Dean is like, "You are lying to yourself! This is not about anything! This is about, like, how you want to save your family! And your real family, the people in there." And Gabriel's like, "Well, they stabbed me in the fucking heart." But Dean says, "Yeah, but you will always give a crap about them, right?" [both laughing] And he says that in that voice. Yeah, anyway, Gabriel says, "I can't kill my brother." And Dean says, "Can't or won't?" And when Gabriel fails to answer, Dean goes, "That's what I thought." So he goes out, goes back in. Kali is asking Sam about summoning Lucifer, and Sam says, "Yeah, I just need you to squeegee some stuff out of my ribs, and then he'll like, find me." And Kali goes, "Breaking them would be easier." Which did make me think, like, Sam and Dean get tossed around a lot. Surely, they sustained some damaged ribs, some broken ribs. [C: Yeah.] How does that work? Yeah. This is something Cas didn't consider. Maybe that's why Cas is always like, "No, I need to heal you real fast!" It's 'cause or else, all the angels will go swarming towards them. Anyway, Dean busts in, and he's like, "Yeah, the sword is fake and everything. Gabriel's still alive, and you have been tricked." But in the main room, but in the lobby, Lucifer is already in there, [C: Why?] and he rings the bell and etc. They haven't even broken Sam's ribs yet.

C: Yeah, no, how did he get- Oh, wait. He says Mercury called him, I guess?

G: No, I think that's just like, a turn of phrase.

C: But Mercury replies, and he says, "The way the talk is heading in there, it's insane." Does that- Well, I guess he says it when he's like, scared, so I can't tell if it's like, "I called you in here because I feel like the talk in there is insane." or if Lucifer just showed up, and Mercury is just trying to save his ass. It's hard for me to tell. Lucifer has a little speech, [laughs] which we've referenced during this episode already, but he goes, "You know, I never understood you pagans. Always fighting. [G: I'll stop you right there.] Always happy to sell out your own kind."

G: I'll stop you right there. [C: Yeah.] "Pagans." Incredibly fucking- that's like, that's not true! I don't think you can call Hindus pagans. Like, that's untrue, right?

C: I think "pagan" was sort of just a term that Christians made up to call non-Christians.

G: Yeah, but like, I don't know! The fact that- I don't know. And the thing is like, the way they present it here, if it's Lucifer just being like, "I'm secretly evil. I'm wrong." Well, "I'm openly evil, and I'm secretly wrong." But like, it's not. We're supposed to see this and be like, "I mean, Lucifer's evil, but like, he's so real for that."

C: "He's so deep, so true." Yeah. The hard facts coming from him.

G: And I mean, it's just, even as like a "It's coming from an evil guy" or whatever, it's still, I think, incredibly disrespectful! [C: Yeah.] And like, no wonder they didn't air this in India! Are you kidding?

C: Yeah. [laughs] "Always fighting, always happy to sell your own kind." [G: Fuck you.] First, [laughs] have you seen the schisms in Christianity? [G laughs] Yeah, also, the "happy to sell out your own kind" seems to be about Mercury calling him in, right? But it's like, well, these people aren't- It just doesn't make sense to lump all non-Christian religions together. And it's like, "Oh, you're betraying, like, the pagan institution by doing whatever whatever." [G: Yeah.] Like, they're all like, their own religions that are complex. Like, it's just, I don't know. It's very flattening in addition to disrespectful and offensive.

G: And of course, he goes, "You're worse than humans. You're worse than demons. And yet, you claim to be gods."

C: "And yet, you claim to be gods." He also says, "No wonder you forfeited this planet to us." [laughs] Like, they did? When?

G: I mean, the bit about like, "You're always fighting, always happy to sell out your own kind." really does- that, it grinds my gear so so so so bad. [C: Yeah.] Because that is a legitimate justification that historically has been used to impose like, missionary work and to impose colonialism. Like, that is a talking point. You know, and it's like, I don't know, to apply it to your cast of characters who are gods that you have distinctly put apart from "Western" is so egregious! It's so egregious. Man, fuck this show!

C: I just don't understand why these were what Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin considered cold, hard facts delivered by Lucifer. Then, he starts attacking, and with just absolutely no ceremony, just in like, one punch, basically, kills Odin, kills Ganesh, kills Baron Samedi, and yeah, they're gone. Oh, wait! I totally forgot! Didn't Dean kill Zao Shen earlier? [G: When?] Like, I think he did that.

G: I mean, I'm sure Sam and Dean definitely did kill someone.

C: No, they killed Zao Shen like, way earlier, and I just totally forgot about it because it was such a non-thing.

G: I remember. It's the part where, like, because with Gabriel, right? The fucking spike dipped in blood or whatever they used to kill, quote unquote "the Trickster," who they at that time thought was a god, they used the same thing to kill Zao Shen, and it's like, those are from different mythologies. [C: Yeah.] And like, they just have a generic kill?

C: I'd assume that most religions don't have a [both] "how you kill your god" thing because of how I feel like most gods aren't supposed to be killable.

G: And they also use that way to kill the people from the Christmas episode. That's how they do it. [C: Yes.] And so like, the fact that all of these are equalized, and whatever. I don't know. It's so fucking stupid.

C: Yeah. I can't believe we forgot that Dean literally killed that guy. Well, he did literally kill that guy, and he's the first one to die, and I feel like that that feels connected to the fact that he doesn't speak English. Like, I feel like that makes him more disposable in the Supernatural episode.

G: Yeah, like, you can't have a speech about dying. [laughs]

C: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. So it's like, yeah. Even if Lucifer kills most of the gods this episode, and you can maybe say, "Well, he's Lucifer. He's bad." Like, Dean did one of them, [G: Yeah.] and it was considered a good and fine thing to do.

G: Maybe that's why they were trying to make it seem like he was the one responsible for the kitchen or whatever. 'Cause they were like, "Dean's gonna kill him later, so we have to justify that."

C: Yeah, he's like, biggest cannibalism guy or whatever.

G: Anyway, Lucifer comes in.

C: He kills all those people [G: Yeah.] just immediately. And there's no mourning for any of them. It's literally just like, "Isn't this a cool visual that he explodes a bunch of gods of real religions to show how powerful he is?"

G: Yeah. And the only ones remaining are Kali and Baldur. Anyway, Sam and Dean, they're like, "No, you have to take us out of here," but they can't. Baldur tries to do a fucking "Who do you think you are?" thing, but Lucifer kills him. And it's just Kali now, and she starts lighting up, like, on fire. [laughs] She tries to, I guess kill Lucifer but did nothing. Gabriel shows up beside Sam and Dean to save his girlfwiend! [C laughs] But before that, he hands Dean a copy of Casa Erotica, and he tells him to guard it with his entire life. Yeah, Gabriel steps in and like, holds out his sword towards Lucifer, and then makes Sam and Dean usher Kali out.

C: We never know where they take her.

G: We never know where they take her.

C: And she never shows up again.

G: Yeah. And this is what I mean when I was like, "It's so paternalistic." [laughs]

C: Yeah, yeah, it is. If she got a bit of his blood, like, we'd be good. [laughs]

G: Yeah, I don't know, man.

C: I think also the fact that she doesn't like, mourn Ganesh or anybody visibly either. [G: Yeah.] It seems like it would mean something that literally Ganesh got killed.

G: Yeah. But they don't give a fuck. Lucifer and Gabriel start talking, and they're like, "Whoa! You want to be on the side of these damn gods?" And Gabriel's like, "No! I'm on the side of people!" [C laughs] And then I don't know. Lucifer's like, "I always know who you are." Then he turns around and Gabriel is actually behind him, and then he uses Gabriel's sword to stab Gabriel, and then Gabriel dies, and it's like, a double bluff that didn't work or whatever.

C: Yeah. Can you believe they put Kali in the backseat?

C: So we're later, and I guess Sam and Dean have dropped Kali off somewhere. Like, where, though? Like, an airport to go to India or like, where would she go? Whatever. Hope she's doing alright? So they're watching the Casa Erotica tape that Gabriel gave them. And, I don't know. There's a woman there, and she's not very dressed. She's a "high-powered business president" writing in her diary, and then Gabriel shows up as room service. He's Hungarian in this? I don't know. They start fucking, but then he turns to the camera, removes his mustache and then says to Sam and Dean that if they're watching this, he's dead, and they can't kill Lucifer, but they can trap him by putting him back in the cage. And the way to do that-

G: Is the four rings of the Four Horsemen.

C: Yeah. You have to create a super key thing, blah blah blah. And then he goes back to fucking that woman. Yeah, whatever. They said that they already have Famine's, but like, they don't have Famine's.

G: They do, yeah.

C: What? No. We never saw them take the ring. [G: They did!] Sam- Famine's? Sam killed him with his demon powers. There was no, like, finger cutting off.

G: They knew that it was the finger or the ring that was the thing.

C: Okay, so it's not unlikely that they would have taken it off him after. [G: Yeah.] Okay, sure.

G: And there's like, flashback footage. It's pretty funny. [laughs] They do a flashback footage and they're like, "Oh, we got War's ring," and it flashes back real quick to them getting War's ring. [laughs] "We got Famine's," and then it flashes back.

C: They don't get Famine's in the flashback. It just shows the ring being on his finger. [G: Yeah.] Yeah. So they now have Pestilence and Death left, and we have a brief scene where Pestilence-

G: Comes in and sneezes on everything.

C: Yeah. His car license plate says "sick and tired" [G: Oh, that's what it means!] which is how I feel about this episode.

G: I was like, "sick and turd"? [C: Turd?] I couldn't figure it out. I was like, they really put emphasis on it, and I could not for the love of god understand what they're trying to tell me.

C: But yeah, he just shows up in a store, and there's like, flies buzzing all around him, and like, there's a whole bunch of snot going on.

G: It is so disgusting.

C: It's really gross. They did a good job at making it really gross. Yeah. Gets his snot-covered fingers all over everything, etc, etc. And that's the episode!

G: Well, this episode is bad, obviously. [C: Yes.] Yeah. [laughs] Best Line/Worst Line.

C: [laughs] Well, I think we all know that the worst line is "Listen up, you primitive screwheads," unless there's another worst line?

G: I mean, I think there's just such a breadth and depth of bad lines in this episode. [C: Yeah.] That one's pretty bad. I don't know. I suppose I really hate the part where they were like, "Oh, the turtle! Oh, the wolf!" That exchange.

C: Oh, Lucifer's speech was really bad too.

G: Yeah. Everything's horrible.

C: "You're worse than demons. You all infight," blah blah blah.

G: Best line. [laughs]

C: When Dean goes, [laughs] "Well, then, people are gonna be asking, 'Why are you guys running around with no hands?'"

G: Yeah. That was pretty funny. That's it! What's that? What's the next one?

C: Spreadsheet. I think we know [laughs] the number of points in the racism category.

G: Okay, well, so the racism, obviously a 5. If we can go, higher we will. [C: Yeah.] This is so egregious. I mean, I always knew it was egregious, but like, I don't know. Because this is an episode I have on purpose not interfaced with because I knew it was bad. But like, if you don't interface with something, you kind of forget just how bad it was. But, my god! It's horrible!

C: And then I think there is misogyny in the way that they treat Kali.

G: Definitely, and I do think it's fundamental to the episode. [C: Yeah.] Like a 3?

C: Yeah, so 3. Yeah, 3 seems right.

G: Wow! And they don't even have homophobia.

C: Homophobia, I don't think so.

G: Yeah. They got an 8. The highest I think we've ever had in the show.

C: Yeah. Woot woot. Alright.

G: Okay. Rating. I cannot imagine this being highly rated, because even without all of the bullshit, which you can't remove from the episode, it's also just bad! It's a bad episode!

C: It's messy. Just doesn't make sense, it's not fun, it's not anything.

G: What's your guess?

C: I don't know how low a bad rating Supernatural episode is. Like, I don't know. 7.9? I feel like that's too low, though. I'll just go for that.

G: My guess is also 7.9. [C: Okay.] I'll go 7.8, 'cause- [C: Okay.] for diversity. [laughs] [C: Cool.] Okay, let's see. Oh my god!

C: Is it high?

G: Oh my god! It's a 9.0.

C: What?

G: It's a 9.0.

C: Are we sure about that?

G: Yes.

C: But why? Do people like Gabriel? His storyline didn't make any sense!

G: They love Gabriel.

C: That's why? That's what they're saying?

G: This one, "Time to grow up: a loyalty lesson from Gabriel."

C: "Greatest acting performance of all the Supernatural episodes"?

G: "What can I say? Gabriel's speech was awesome. He wasn't a demon, but he read Lucifer's mind since he disobeyed." Okay, well, who give a shit? "I don't understand all the hate."

C: The second one is- [sighs] oh, okay. "When has the show actually been a hundred percent accurate for anything?"

G: It's not about the accuracy! It's not about the accuracy!

C: "It's pretty liberal on all the details and lore for the monsters." Interesting term.

G: It's about the complete fucking disrespect for an existing religion that they did not bother to know anything about. At least when they're like, fucking doing bullshit with Christianity, they're like, aware of it.

C: "They are going to write things that they feel will get the viewers attention. It's probably safe to say that the majority of the viewers DON't actually bother to research everything in the supernatural world." Hinduism is the third biggest religion in the world! [screams]

G: "If they want to show a bunch of random Gods as being childish cannibals looking to reclaim the planet, then let them do it. [C screams] You don't have to like the episode like every other sheep in the flock. Just know that artistic liberties will ALWAYS be taken when they can."

C: I don't think they will always be taken when they can, and sometimes they really shouldn't be. Okay, the next person is Hindu and mentions that they dislike "the myopic view the show's writers have of the other religions.Ganesha is a God we Hindus revere, we pray to him before beginning any important. He is the God who removes obstacles. And you guys show him as a human meat eater? I know this show is fictional, and I LOVE it, but I mean come on guys? Show a little respect here!!" So true!

G: Yeah. I mean-

C: [laughs] Fucking CubsandCulture. "This is one of the very best episodes of the show." Sorry, do you have something to say about the previous review?

G: No, no, I was just like- go on, go on. Why did you laugh at CubsandCulture this way? Is there anything?

C: No, I just- I feel like we see them all the time, and apparently, this is one of the very best episodes of the show. Great. Okay, great. Great. "Add in the show at least tries to de-westernize the underlying mythology [G screams] -Kali complaining about Western arrogance really hits home." Okay. Okay.

G: I think maybe what it is is that there's like, pushback to this episode being bad and racist, and so they're all like, "Nooo!"

C: And so people are like, "Oh, you snowflakes," and they all come in and rate it 10 stars.

G: That is actually so horrible. [C: Yeah.] Man, I'm so sorry to every, like, Hindu person specifically who watched this. [C: Yeah.] "Best episode this season so far!" The last two episodes are actually like, really good! [laughs]

C: 5.18 was good!

G: "Can't stop hating this episode."

C: Yeah, boomshiva says, "Maa Kali can blow your Lucifer into the size of an ant's ass if she wishes." Real.

G: And like, the thing is like, I always say this about Supernatural, right? Some of the things they do, if that was the only thing they did, I would give them the benefit of the doubt because, like, you know, sometimes, it's like, whatever. The intentions don't read well or whatever. But like, because of the history of what Supernatural is as a show, and the things that they do in the show, and what the show is in and of itself, it's hard to give Supernatural the benefit of the doubt. Barring all that, even if this is a show where you can give all the benefit of all the doubt, this episode is still so egregiously bad. So like, I don't know. I cannot- That's like, my pushback against that one review that's like, "But they treat everything this way!" And it's like you know damn well that an American show that is as white and as racist as Supernatural treating Christian, whatever, mythology [laughs], I don't know, that way is very different from what they're doing here, and it's just completely ignorant to be like, "No, but they do it for everything!" You know that that's, one, not true, and you know that the implications are different, even if they do the exact same thing. So yeah, whatever. So fucking annoying.

C: Yeah. Most of these reviews are people weighing in on the "and stop being offended" or "this was shitty" debate.

G: Yeah. This one says, "Do not criticize without knowing the fact. The reason you call it Pagan is because you are too immature to understand it. [both laugh] Kindly don't fall below your standards again and portray the eastern traditions in such a poor way." And like, this is-this part, "Do not criticize without knowing the fact," like, that's also, I suppose, what I was trying to say earlier, [laughs] but this person summarized it in one sentence. But like, when they're disrespecting fucking Christianity or whatever, [laughs] when they're disrespecting vampire lore or whatever, [C laughs] they know. Like, they know the facts of the matter. They understand the cultural context, the historical context or whatever. This one comes from a place of such severe ignorance and blatant, blatant not giving a fuck about it that you cannot equate it as being equal because criticizing something that you're familiar with, and you know for sure, versus something that you heard one thing about once, and you never bothered to hear about again are completely different things. [C: Yep. Yep.] [laughing] I'm going to kill everyone in this reviews [both laugh] except the people that I agree with.

C: Yeah, no. A lot of people are weighing in.

G: And then this one review is like, "Finally, the Joey reference. So funny when Dean asked Kali, 'How you doin'?' [C laughing] I have always thought that Dean looks and acts a lot like Joey in Friends and I have been waiting for him to say that line - in that voice. Loved it!" [C laughs]

C: I'm glad somebody somewhere is having fun!

G: And they gave it 8 out of 10, [both laughs] so they knew the episode was bad, even if they loved this line. I respect that. And then this one is like, "Yeah, the pagan gods are weakened because people did not believe them anymore." Fuck off!

C: Like, bro. [laughs]

G: There are more reviews for this than like, literally any other episode of Season 5 that we have gone through, seems like.

C: Well, I don't know. Everyone's wrong except for the people who are right at the end.

G: Towards the bottom. The reviews up top are very positive for some reason, but actually, if you scroll down, most of them are one-star reviews of being like, "This is so horrible." [laughs] This one calls it "an equal-opportunity offender." [laughs] I love that. Yeah, I want to say many people don't like this episode in these reviews, I think it just got the opposite of review-bombed by people who are pushing back against the pushback. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, well.

C: Ugh! Alright.

G: Well, that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 5, Episode 20: "The Devil You Know." Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Don't know anything about this episode.

G: What do you think is the devil that we know?

C: Not Lucifer? [both laugh]

G: Oh, they're using the term devil nebulously. They also mean demon. Who's the demon we know?

C: Crowley?

G: Yeah! [C: Cool.] He's gonna be in next episode. Yeah.

G: Follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com. G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. And like, for this episode specifically, if like, you want to talk about it, do it. Yay! [laughs] Okay, anyway. Yeah, that's it. Thank you so much. [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

#transcript

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tonysopranosfeverdreams · 6 years ago

Text

31. “Can I kiss you?”thank u @hyruling 💖

“Mac,” he starts, slowly, like explaining something very complicated to a very small child“it’s the middle of August. It’s going to be warm. It’s North Dakota, not the North Pole. There is literally no reason for me to bring a jacket.”

***

Dennis exhales heavily as he feels the muscles in his back relax slightly underneath the heavy stream of hot water. He had been on edge for the better part of the day, having woken up at barely 5 in the morning, short of breath and only half-remembering his dream. He thinks he had been playing with Brian Jr. in a park that Dennis vaguely remembers from his own childhood, from countless afternoons spent with Dee on a pair of rusty swings during the summer days that their mother would sleep away with a bottle of gin (or wine, or Valium, depending on the particular day) on her pristine designer couch, leaving the twins to find their own sources of entertainment.

In the dream, Dennis remembers hearing Brian’s delighted laughter, chasing him around the perimeter of the bright red slide that used to be Dennis’s favorite, remembers the sun glaring down so painfully bright that Dennis could barely see, the scene sun-bleached and searing in front of his eyes. Remembers turning the corner where he expected to find Brian, only to find his son was nowhere to be seen.

After trying in vain to fall back asleep for at least another hour, Dennis had resigned himself to consciousness, opening his eyes to see the curve of Mac’s slightly curved back, inches away from where Dennis himself was resting. Bathed in the gray morning light, Dennis thought he could make out dozens of patterns in the smattering of freckles that covered his strong back and shoulders. He had wondered, absently, why anyone considered them imperfections, even as he remembered always covering his own with a generous layer of foundation, whenever a stray freckle dared to make an appearance after he accidentally spent too long in the sun without his sunscreen.

Looking down at his soft, wrinkled fingertips, Dennis sighs and steps out of the shower, using a towel to dry off before stepping into a soft pair of sweatpants and a worn shirt from some High School Baseball team (it must have been Mac’s, he realizes), before emerging into his bedroom.

He is greeted by the sight of Mac, hunched over the bed, fussing with the contents of Dennis’s navy vinyl duffle bag. He raises an eyebrow.

“Dude,” Dennis deadpans “what am I looking at here? Is this, like, some weird panty raid situation? If you were looking for some action, all you had to do was ask.” He ended the sentence with a playful smirk, the corner of his mouth twitching upward.

Mac snorts, looking up at Dennis and grinning at him brightly for just a moment before quickly turning his attention back to the somewhat overstuffed suitcase, already filled with Dennis’s somewhat extensive collection of skincare products, along with all the other essentials for a couple of weeks out of town. Normally, Mac would tease Dennis by saying that he needed at least three suitcases of his own just to hold his beauty regimen. Dennis, however, knew how Mac liked to watch him sometimes, when they were in the bathroom brushing their teeth for bed or getting ready for the day, how his eyes would linger over Dennis’s reflection in the mirror as he lightly spread his night moisturizer over his face. Once, when Dennis had gotten really drunk at the bar, but refused to go to bed without finishing his skin care routine, Mac had actually done it for him, sitting Dennis on the edge of the bathtub as he used the pad of one finger to softly, softly, dab his eye cream under his eyes. He couldn’t remember ever seeing Mac so concentrated, so still.

“In your dreams. Nah, man, it’s just I noticed that you didn’t pack a jacket yet, so I wanted to make sure you had one. I know you get like, cold, sometimes. So. You know.” Mac shrugged easily, like it was the most natural thing in the world, although Dennis could see a patch of red coloring the tops of his ears. Mac cleared his throat and took out one of Dennis’s plaid button-downs, refolding it somewhat uselessly, before placing it back in the bag. Dennis furrows his brow.

“ You never know, dude,” Mac plows forward, stubbornly, placing his hands on his hips as he fixes Dennis with his most serious look. “I’ve been looking up a lot of weather forecasts for you and it’s like fucking russian roulette. One day it’s sunny, the next it’s snowing. I swear to God man, it’s like they don’t understand seasons out there or something. It’s fucked up.” He pats the neatly jacket lying at the top of the suitcase for emphasis.

Only then does Dennis realize Mac had packed one of his own leather jackets for him, which, although it does somewhat clash with Dennis’s own more elegant, refined fashion sensibilities, is bound to still have the scent of Mac’s cheap body wash and cologne lingering in the lining, and Dennis suddenly doesn’t feel so keen to press Mac further on the subject. Dennis raises his arms in mock surrender.

“Besides,” Mac continues, somehow managing to flatten out Dennis’s belongings enough to pull the zipper shut and flop himself down on the edge of the bed “you’re going to be out there for three weeks, so it’ll most likely be getting colder as time goes on. You’ll thank me later.”

Dennis sighs, sitting next to Mac at the edge of the bed. He didn’t appreciate the reminder of exactly how long he was going to be away. He knew, objectively, three weeks wasn’t a long time, and he had been the one to accept the invitation when Mandy had mentioned the possibility of him maybe coming up for a few weeks to spend some time with Brian before he started preschool. Brian was his son, and he was charming, funny, and pretty fucking intelligent for a creature that who still wasn’t capable of putting his own shirt on right-side out. And Brian was kind. Even after it had gotten bad, and Dennis locked himself in his room all day, even after he had skipped every therapy appointment for the past three months, and come home at 4 in the morning reeking of alcohol and self-loathing, Brian, for some reason, still wanted to be near him. Brian was probably one of the only people in the world who, no matter what kind of mood he was in, no matter what new extravagant way he managed to fuck up, still looked at him like he was one of his very favorite people in the world, like he knew that Dennis had something good inside of him still, even when Dennis couldn’t see it. He was the only person who had ever looked at him like that, except for-

“Hey,” Mac mutters, snapping Dennis out of his thoughts. He runs his fingers softly through Dennis’s hair, just pushing it back, before lightly tapping the side of his brow with two fingers . “Everything okay in there?”

It’s hard for Dennis to put it into words. For the past few months, ever since he and Mac had crossed this unnameable, unmistakable line that they’d been hurtling toward for the past 25 years, Dennis has had a hard time articulating exactly what it is that he is thinking or feeling. The strangest part was how natural, how inevitable it all felt, waking up with some part of Mac’s body touching his, an arm flung over his torso, or his shoulder pressed against his chest; Mac’s hand wrapping around his during their Lethal Weapon rewatches, thumb running soothingly over his knuckles. They don’t talk about it, and it’s not something they flaunt in public, simultaneously too different and too familiar for them to define, although Dennis suspects the rest of the gang must have picked up on it to some extent- must know them both too well not to have done. It would be easier to explain, comprehend, maybe if it had been more difficult, had come less easily to him.

That year he had been away, he had missed so much.

It’s hard for Dennis to put into words. So he lowers his forehead, resting it on Mac’s shoulder. For a few minutes they sit there in silence, Mac soothingly stroking through the hair at the back Dennis’s neck. Finally, Dennis lifts his head, stifling a yawn with the back of his hand. He’s hit with the sudden reality that the night is about to end, that this is the last time he’s going to get to be alone with Mac for weeks.

“Wanna watch a movie?” he asks, groggily.

Mac glances at the clock on his bedside table, which reads half past midnight. Late, too late for a movie, really, considering Dennis needs to be at the airport by 7 AM for Dennis to catch his flight. Mac looks back at Dennis, studying his face for a moment, considering.

“Sure.” He stands up, offering Dennis his hand and leading him to the living room where he pops in one of their DVDs, some generic 90s action flick. Dennis doesn’t mind. Dennis falls asleep, faced tucked against Mac’s shoulder, during the opening fight sequence.

***

Dennis jolts awake, heart fluttering and bile rising in his throat, remnants of the same dream from the night before floating around his mind; Brian’s laughter, the bright bright light, the incomparable panic, realizing he had vanished. On the other side of the bed, Mac sleeps soundly, his chest rising and falling in a peaceful rhythm. Not trusting himself to lie still, Dennis pads out of bed to the kitchen, where the oven clock informs him it’s just turned 3. Only a couple more hours until he has to be awake.

Dennis pours himself a glass of water, and gulps it down, paces as he regulates his breathing, trying to remind himself how to inhale and exhale in a normal fashion.

“Dennis?” a soft, groggy voice calls him from the bedroom doorway, where he sees Mac. Confused, sleep-ruffled, Mac, features softened somewhat from the moonlight pouring in through the bedroom window.

Dennis is still, waits for Mac to walk over to him, wrap one gentle hand around his wrist.

“Okay,” Mac says.

Mac walks him back to the bedroom, pulling back the covers on Dennis’s side and waiting for him to crawl underneath before he climbs in beside him, folding one arm carefully around Dennis’s waist.

“Mac,” Dennis whispers, an edge of panic creeping into his voice. The arm around his waist tightens.

“Go to sleep, sweetheart.”

Eventually, he does.

***

This time, Dennis wakes to an alarm blaring, and to the smell of freshly brewed coffee wafting in from the kitchen. The other side of the bed is unusually empty, for a change (Mac would always swear to anyone who asked that if God had intended for man to be up before 10 am, he wouldn’t have made it so fucking miserable). He dresses quickly, and emerges to find Mac sitting across from a cup of coffee, presumably for Dennis, while yawning into his own. Mac had apparently snuck out early to pick up blueberry muffins from the bakery down the street, and Dennis picked at it on their way to the airport, mostly to appease Mac, who was insisting that the only way to fight motion sickness was to fly on a full stomach, something about an article he had read somewhere. He kept one hand on the wheel, resting his others on top of Dennis’s where it lay on his knee.

They end up making it to the airport just in time for Dennis’s flight to board, which was quite honestly a miracle considering the amount of time that Mac had spent fretting over whether Dennis had forgotten anything in his suitcase, almost insisting they stop at a pharmacy to buy Dennis a travel toothpaste before Dennis managed to convince him that Mandy was, in fact, a human person, who almost certainly had toothpaste he could borrow at her place until he managed to get out and get his own.

Their hands stay linked on the long walk to the main entrance, where Dennis instinctively drops Mac’s, noticing the small frown cross his face, unable to quelch the slight pang of regret he feels at the sight. Dennis has never understood the rules, with this type of thing. Dennis has never had anything like this. Maybe someday, he will be better at it.

They make their way to the security checkpoint nearest to Dennis’s gate with relative ease, the airport filled mostly with business people in crisp suits, and families heading south to their beach houses for their last trip of the summer, desperate to savor the last few weeks of freedom before they return to the dull drone of their daily lives.

“All right, well, this is it,” Dennis coughs, lightly, the two of them standing there, facing each other, seemingly at a loss for words. “Thanks, man, for like. Driving me in and stuff. I’ll text you when I get in?”

Mac’s wringing his hands, and he’s got this look on his face as he gazes back at him, like he’s taking in as much of Dennis as humanly possible in case he doesn’t get another chance. It makes something in Dennis’s chest ache. He has to look away.

“Yeah, dude.” Mac chokes a little on his words, “Of course. Any time.” He tries to play it off as casual, but his eyes are unmistakably sincere.

“Anyway, I’ll be seeing you soon? Don’t you guys get too used to life without me again.” Dennis grins, very slightly, seeing something in Mac’s posture change, soften, with the joke. Mac gives a small, startled, genuine laugh. Dennis would make Mac laugh like that everyday, if he could.

“Never, man.” He promises, joking at first, but tone turning surprisingly serious when he adds “Not even if we tried.”

Dennis nods, wiping his nose with the back of his hand as he turns to enter the checkpoint, only making it a few steps before he pauses for just a moment. He turns back around, somewhat wildly, making his way back to a very confused Mac, who’s currently looking at him like he’s lost his goddamn mind.

“Dennis, you’re going to miss your flight! What the-”

“Can I kiss you?” Dennis blurts out, interrupting him, before continuing, deliriously, like he can’t help himself, can’t keep the words from rushing out. “I really want to kiss you right now. Can I?”

In the span of approximately 3 seconds, Dennis swears he watches Mac’s face go through an abbreviated version of every phase of medical shock, and just when Dennis is about to slink away with his tail between his legs, and quite possibly begin a new life as a recluse in the woods where no one will ever be able to contact him again, he sees Mac’s expression change into something so reverent, so happy it’s like he’s looking at one of the 7 wonders of the goddamn world, and Dennis thinks it’s the most beautiful thing he’s ever seen.

Wordlessly, Mac nods, and the kiss is a quick, intense, thing, with Dennis clutching at Mac’s back like he’s the last thing anchoring him to this planet or else he’ll drift away.

Dennis boards the flight already dreaming about coming back home.

#macdennis #macdennis fic #iasip fic #what am i doing #who knows #my writing #my fic

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