#lestat saved him during the trial and armand after

[nalyra-dreaming]

Speaking of the coven now that they've changed the whole set up of the trial, I'm very curious about Lestats relationship with them (if any).

In Armands,mostly untrue, fanfic he says Lestat grew bored 100 nights in. That's less than four months and I doubt he had any relationship with anyone else except for amrand and Nicki during this time. (And Gabrielle! Where is she I wonder).

Sam mentions that they talk about him all the time, and he's a legendary figure for them and how they expect him to be a specific kind of monster and that Lestat hates it and has to play along to have a shot at saving Louis during the trial. During which he seems to despise Santiago 🙄

( And how do they treat him after when they found out what he did?)

And during the rehearsal flashback Lestat seems to only be focused on Armand.

I'm very curious about all of it I hope we get flashbacks, could they bring Ben Daniels back? And the rest?

I doubt they bring back Ben Daniels... his vampire was relatively young, so not there at the theater when it was created.

And Armand's comment there of a 100 nights might actually be pushing it already, because the way he describes it is not how it happens... I mean, he totally omits Nicki's role in it all as well, reduces him to a mere "jealousy" angle (sound familiar?), instead of being one of the founders of the theater, and the main music wright.

I think of the little fanfic tale Armand told only the basics will hold (as it was in canon):

He saw Lestat after he was made by Magnus (and kinda imprinted on him)

Lestat has a lover called Nicolas

Armand kidnapped Nicolas so Lestat would come to him

Lestat destroyed (the remains of) Armand's cult with his words

Lestat turned Nicki

The theater was created as subterfuge and home at the same time

And Lestat left... a short time after

Lestat being legendary to the coven does not necessarily mean imho that he was an actual actor in it (after Armand took over) - I think THAT can be easily explained by Armand being so focused on him.

And we know Lestat returned to Paris... twice - and we know Nicki lived longer in the show than in the books.

The meetings on those occasions might have become quite legendary, too, because I'm sure they must have met then. But we'll likely get to see more about that in the upcoming seasons.

[lizardkingeliot]

Okay so we're all in agreement that it was Lestat who pulled Louis out of the wall in the theatre right? The episode doesn't make it explicitly clear and they only show us Lestat saving Louis during the trial. And in fact they have Louis say he knew the blood he tasted upon being freed was Armand's...

But in the context of everything else that... doesn't actually make much sense? Because here's what actually happened...

First, Louis woke up in the sewer alone...

Why would Armand just leave him there if he suddenly decided to choose Louis over the coven after Lestat saved him from imminent death? After listening to him screaming in agony as he starved in that coffin for... how long? The opportunity that presented itself wasn't Louis being saved from death at the trial on the stage and being locked in a vault. Armand could have taken him out at any time. He chose not to. He chose to listen to him screaming in agony for... days? Weeks????

Armand didn't care. He chose the coven. He discovered Louis was gone and only then did he reach out to him telepathically while he was in the crypt plotting his revenge. Louis asked Armand if he saved him at the trial AND if he pulled him out of the wall. Armand gave the same monotone "yes" as an answer to both. And I think we're meant to understand these are both equal lies in hindsight.

And when Armand told Louis to leave Paris it was clear his only aim was to save the coven. If Armand wanted to be with him he would have been. He only decided to choose Louis after the coven was gone and he had no other choice. Armand was at full strength the whole time. 500 years old. Powerful enough to walk in the sun. He could control the coven with a snap of his fingers.

But you know who wasn't at full strength at the time? Who couldn't have just gone to him right away even though he wanted to save Louis more than anything in the world?

Lestat only let Louis stay in that situation for as long as he did because he was so weakened by doing the mind trick that saved him in the first place. We all saw how rough he looked after Louis had been taken away in 2x07. The way he was standing there swaying on his feet...

He had to regain his strength to go back to the theatre, get Louis out, give him his blood at full strength so that it might heal him. And he only left him there because he believed he needed to let Louis go. Because he was not worthy of Louis' forgiveness etc...

This is probably a conclusion lots of you have already come to but I didn't pick up on it during my first watch because I was so emotionally compromised. I don't know why they had Louis say it was Armand's blood, but maybe we're meant to understand it as another misremembering. Louis trying to reason with himself that it had to have been Armand's blood. Because before Daniel gave him the final pieces of the puzzle, he very much believed Armand had been the one to save him at the trial. The one to pull him out of the wall...

[loumandaniel]

IIRC you also think DM happened in the past. Do you have a theory as to why Daniel's memory's were erased?

Are you ready for something insane???

I think it has to do with Marius de Romanus.

The epicenter of Armand is Marius. He is in every crack and corner of how Armand exists. His shadow falls over the dynamic of Louis and Armand in the show and Armand and Daniel in the QotD chapter. In the book, once Armand realizes Daniel truly loves him in Pompeii, what does he do? He resorts himself back into the role he knows, except he casts Daniel as Amadeo and himself as Marius. Daniel becomes fully dependent on Armand because isn't that what love is? Armand understands his love properly right when Daniel is dying so he turns him. Armand can't stomach turning Daniel (sounds like s2 finale babes) and Daniel loses his mind and ends up isolated in Marius' care.

1940s AMC Armand believes Marius dead. Does 2022 Armand? Timelines can change easily. He spent time with Lestat for the trial, it could have been revealed. Lestat would hold it over his head for making him do this. Or maybe, reveal it through a relationship with Daniel.

Armand makes sure the SF edit of memories allows him to flaunt he saved Daniel's life. This is important to him. Except, he didn't save Daniel's life at all in that apartment. Why is it important to Armand that Daniel (and Louis) believe this? Why is it important Armand can hold onto that? I think he really believes he saves Daniel's life, just not in SF.

In the books, Bianca, Daniel, Benji, Sybelle all become objects Marius takes from Armand. So if Marius did come to check up on Armand unseen (funnily enough he does so in Paris and it's in Paris that Daniel's memories start to form a coherent timeline again) and finds him in a relationship with a human boy? Oh no, Armand is Marius'.

Oh Amadeo, I've come to you again. You have a human companion? He is addicted to you, you hurt him, give him the Gift! Turn him or free him! You cannot love properly because that is your nature. Let me take care of this one for you, Amadeo.

There is a glaring neon sign stating the love has already happened because Armand turns Daniel in the show. He has no other reason to do so. Armand doesn't punish this way. Okay so past relationship, but Armand doesn't want Daniel in Dubai, except he is and he allows it. Why? The entire thing reeks of "I don't want this interview happening. I don't want you here, but I am weak and selfish and I wanted to see you again. I want you to remember me."

I think he believes he saved Daniel from a life of damnation and Armand by allowing Marius (or himself, but I don't think he is that strong in the Mind Gift) to remove the memories of their time. I free you from me and you can go onto live a life. I won't let you be cursed.

So yea, Marius. Show wise look at who is about to get the scoop on Armand and Marius through Lestat. You set up Armand as this false villain, Daniel starts realizing there is more memories missing, anger at Armand for taking more. Look at what you did to Nicki, look at what you did to Claudia and Louis, look at what you did to me. Drop the twist that Armand truly thought he was saving Daniel, start Armand's backstory/redemption arc, and you build them reuniting.

Devil's minion break up and reunite in the books, but that is never shown beyond a few lines. No way, this show wouldn't want a deep exploration of a human/vampire relationship. They're dramatists. Rolin Jones and co. have such a sandbox to play in with these two during the time Anne Rice doesn't write for them and that's why I think their timeline appears all over the place.

OH! Daniel sits by Marius' portrait in the dining room every time by the way. Also, crazy first name drop of a major character in a line from the episode titled "...after the phantoms of your former self" where only Armand is present in the scene.

Yea, I bet you never heard of him

[cottagecoreloreee]

The scene Louis never saw...

Louis was away in the coffin, unable to see this Lestat who is drained and possibly mind-controlled, unable to save their daughter. He remembers Lestat on his feet, as a participant, entrancing a crowd. How much did Armand have to do for Louis to believe it was Lestat's design? Very little, one could argue.

I don't believe that Armand had to edit Louis' memories for Louis to blame Lestat. Decades of resentment and abuse had already colored Louis' impression. Claudia had orchestrated Lestat's murder and Louis had slit his neck. He already believed Lestat would be vengeful.

And we can't ignore the trauma of the trial--dazed and helpless, how much could Louis remember? Would he have noticed these small lapses, when Lestat seemed weak? Or would he be the powerful beast Louis had always seen him as?

In the first scenes of season 2, it is clear that Louis had constructed a narrative that Lestat would hunt them down. His recollection of the trial is a self-fulfilling prophecy hinged on an imagined vendetta.

All Armand needed to do was play with the unknown and take credit for saving Louis. That is the frightening power of Armand--the cunning to know how easily he could manipulate Louis because then, during and after the trial, Louis very much loathed Lestat.

[cbrownjc]

#yep Sam is dead on the mark#that at this point in time Lestat wants zero to do with Armand

...and to me, with the way the show set it up, with Armand planning Claudia and Louis' death, Lestats feelings toward Armand are going to be even less forgiving than the book imo.

That is going to be sobering to a lot of fans who have this love story in their heads about Lestat and Armand. A begrudging friendship existed in the books... eventually.

I don't think even that will exist for awhile in the show world.

Hi!

Well, I actually don't think Armand really was planning for Louis to die as well during that trial. The idea that he was was really mainly Daniel's supposition about the situation. And the flashback we saw of the rehearsal of the trial-play was from Louis' POV, which means it's how Louis imagined it all happened, because Louis wasn't there at the rehearsals to actually know.

In truth, I actually do think Armand was planning to have Louis spared during the trial. Because he'd already chosen Louis over the coven, back during the tunnel scene in 2x03. And I think once Armand did that, he was never going to go back to choosing the coven over Louis.

Because for Armand, love is the ultimate trump card over everything else. Once Armand chooses to love you, does love you, then that's it.

And, IMO, Armand did not love the theater coven in any way on the same level as he loved Louis. Or the way he loved Lestat.

Armand wanted them, at one time or another, as his companions. And the show is making it very clear that that sort of bond between vampires is on a way different level of intimacy than the affection one might have for others, including a coven.

For me, Lestat saying "I gave you to Armand" to Louis when Louis asked why Lestat never told him that he saved him was a hint IMO. I think Armand was mind-manipulating and mind-spelling a weakened Lestat during that trial. And though Lestat was able to break that spell once or twice to say what he really thought, he was mostly still overpowered by Armand.

So I think, in order to save Louis, Lestat agreed to let Armand have him. And I think that deal was made just right after Claudia was given her sentence of death. Because I 100% do think Lestat would have saved Claudia, too, if he were capable. We know this from the hints we've gotten from Sam that Lestat was trying to talk to Madeleine telepathically, but couldn't because Santiago was fogging her mind.

And watching Claudia be sentenced first probably upped Lestat's desperation to save Louis. And agreeing to whatever Armand wanted, to do so.

But, IMO, Armand was never going to actually let Louis die. Because while Armand is truly capable of hurting and punishing those he loves, he'd never actually kill them, or allow them to be killed if he could prevent it.

And so I think he used the trial to punish Lestat (for never choosing him) by allowing Lestat to save Louis, but having to give Louis to him -- Armand -- in order for Armand to release his hold on him for the time to do so.

In the show, I think Armand had Lestat locked up in Magnus' tower for a few years, not just a few weeks or months as in the books. In the show, Louis and Claudia arrived in Paris in 1945. The trial took place in 1949, four years later. And I truly do suspect Lestat showed up in Paris a few months before Louis and Claudia did, not even looking for them, let alone expecting them to be there. I think, just like in the book, Lestat went to Paris to ask Armand for some of his blood to try and heal.

And that, just like in the book, the fact that Lestat came there only seeking Armand blood and not wanting to be with Armand himself pissed Armand off. (And, of course, up his curiosity when it came to Louis.)

But I think only Armand knew Lestat was in Paris. I don't think he told the coven until later.

But the coven did know that Lestat de Lioncourt was Louis and Claudia's Maker and what they did to him. I'm pretty sure Armand told them that much, especially given Delainey's recent interview where she reveals that yes, the coven was, "'slowly and sadistically' torturing Louis and Claudia the entire time."

The prominently hung portrait of Lestat was strategically done to f--k with them. (Especially if they had named Lestat as their Maker before they noticed it hanging up there.)

And the "My Baby Loves Windows" play was written and directed to try and get Claudia to go crazy and kill herself. Armand was clearly certain it was only a matter of time before Claudia did such a thing because of her young age when she was turned, as he told Louis in the tunnel, in Episode 2x03. He even brought that idea up again, Claudia taking her own life, to Madeleine in 2x06.

And Madeleine saying that maybe she was what was needed to prevent Claudia from doing that is probably what made Armand realize that Claudia wasn't going to take her own life, like he and the coven had been trying to get her to do.

And so then, hence the trial, in order to finally remove Claudia, as he and the coven had been trying to do the whole time.

Armand may be very desperate for love and acceptance when it comes to those he falls in love with, but he's not stupid. He's very cunning, strategic, and calculating.

And almost always effectively so.

Remember, Armand allowed Lestat to break up the Children of Satan cult because he was tired of it. In the show, Daniel immediately clocked that, but it was true in the book too.

I think in the show it all pretty much was as it was for him about Claudia in the books:

For Armand about Claudia, it all, IMO, pretty much came down to that.

Armand didn't love Claudia. It didn't matter that Louis and Lestat loved her; he didn't. So he was never going to save her. Because he and the coven were actively trying to get her to take her own life the whole time she was there, and that never changed.

And Armand sure as hell wasn't going to let Lestat try and save her.

But Louis was different. Because Armand did love Louis.

And that's why Louis was able to be saved, and Claudia wasn't. Armand allowed Lestat to save Louis as long as Lestat agreed to give him Louis, IMO.

But if Lestat hadn't given him Louis, I still think Armand would have saved him. (Probably in the same way Louis had supposed he had for all those years.) Armand just would have punished both Louis and Lestat more than he did, and then would have just found another angle that would have given him Louis anyway -- with Lestat having to give Louis over to him in the same way -- in the end.

Because no matter how angry and hurt Armand was with Lestat, Armand was never going to kill him either. Let him suffer, be weak and hurt, take Louis from him, yes. But ever actually want Lestat dead? No.

And I think, just like with the COS, Armand was ready for the theater coven to go away as well, once he decided that Louis was what/who he wanted.

But yeah, I agree that everything Armand has done, particularly the upped mind manipulation and gaslighting of Louis on the show, to keep them together, is going to make it harder for him to earn forgiveness for it all.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that begrudging friendship between Armand and Lestat doesn't happen until the final seasons of the show. Like, the very final one or two seasons.

And yes, it is going to be very sobering for those who just see the whole thing between Armand and Lestat as an unrequited pining thing, and don't see the horror within everything Armand did to try to get Lestat to be with him. (And then Louis later.)

Hell, I'm a fan of Armand's character (obviously), and it was sobering for me to realize the show not only didn't already have him fully past his crazy gremlin era yet, but was adding even darker elements to it.

But I will say that just kinda tells me that the show is also probably going to add to -- and be brutal with -- Armand's backstory when it finally starts getting revealed in Season 4. (And Armand's backstory was already dark as hell to begin with.) But even then, forgiveness for what he's done won't be given anytime soon, easily, or quickly.

Though I actually think Lestat will forgive him sooner than Louis will. Louis' forgiveness will take even longer to get than Lestat's IMO.

[eternalstateofoctober]

— 𝔞𝔩𝔩 𝔦 𝔴𝔞𝔫𝔫𝔞 𝔟𝔢 𝔦𝔰 𝖊𝖛𝖊𝖗𝖞𝖙𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖆𝖙 𝖔𝖓𝖈𝖊 | AMC’s IWTV

also known as ”local woman is roused to learn editing to deliver everyone this fandom classic” (the video's synced better on desktop)

transcription/video description under the cut:

[video description: a fan video/edit of amc’s ”interview with the vampire” by tumblr user @eternalstateofoctober (me!!) set to a shortened version of lenka’s ”everything at once”. the video clips are cut to the rhythm of the song and its changing lyrics. the song is catchy and upbeat with a light, bouncy rhythm and a whimsical but also slightly melancholic vibe at times. it has a steady beat with repeating piano notes and some xylophone. the video clips are muted so only the song is playing, save for a few voiceover lines and sound effects.

(instrumental intro, repeating piano notes)

the théâtre des vampires orchestra starts playing and another member checks the projector. a watermark with the username @eternalstateofoctober flashes on screen and disappears at the same time as a projector light flickers.

🎵 as sly as a fox 🎵

two clips of daniel after the trial script reveal. first he tosses the script to louis, then he pushes his glasses up and casts a hard look at an off-screen armand.

🎵 as strong as an ox 🎵

armand uses the mind gift to make the coven fall asleep at the dinner table in 2x04, voiceover of him yelling ”enough!” angrily and banging the table. table settings clattering. then lestat using the mind gift at the trial to manipulate louis’ sentence. his left ear starts bleeding. VO lestat: ”banishment...”

🎵 as fast as a hare 🎵

louis sprints at daniel in ’73, making him stumble back.

🎵 as brave as a bear 🎵

clips of young daniel being tortured by armand. first he lifts his gaze, then there’s two clips of him being slammed down by armands powers. last clip is him closing his eyes while armand holds his face. VO of daniel’s grunts and whimpers.

🎵 as free as a bird 🎵

claudia on stage as baby lu mimes opening a window made of projections happily.

🎵 as neat as a word 🎵

claudia writes in her diary in season 1, the clip has a double exposure effect with her pen moving on the page.

🎵 as quiet as a mouse 🎵

a wide shot of the sewers the children of darkness inhabit.

🎵 as big as a house 🎵

establishing shot of the théâtre des vampires building. suddenly the screen flashes black and there’s a quick flickering shot of the talamasca logo on daniel’s laptop screen and a glitching sound effect.

🎵 as mean as a wolf 🎵

close-up of santiago on stage in 2x02, he looks right at the audience seductively.

🎵 as sharp as a tooth 🎵

shots of the vamps baring their fangs. lestat ripping the priests throat out in 1x01, claudia in madeleine’s shop, louis in ’73 showing off to daniel, armand hissing at lestat in 2x03.

🎵 as deep as a bite 🎵

extreme close-up of lestat biting louis at the altar.

🎵 as dark as the night 🎵

madeleine lights a candle that illuminates her face during a power outage. she’s watched from outside her shop window by a curious claudia.

🎵 as sweet as a song 🎵

young daniel embraces armand after armand has manipulated him to accept death. armand strokes his hair and there’s armand’s calm whisper as a voiceover: ”i’ll hold you…”

🎵 as right as a wrong 🎵

claudia’s real turning. lestat looks up from an off-screen louis who’s begging on his knees. in the second clip he’s kneeling next to claudia on the floor and lifting her upper body while louis’ back is still turned to them.

🎵 as long as a road 🎵

louis’ finger taps a spot on a map in the warzone.

🎵 as ugly as a toad 🎵

the vampire bruce cocking his head.

🎵 as pretty as a picture, hanging from a fixture 🎵

lestat’s portrait hangs on the wall in the théâtre’s green room in 2x02, jumpcut to it in flames in 2x08.

🎵 strong like a family 🎵

the de pointe du lac and frenière families pose for a portrait at grace’s wedding. the clip changes to the next with the camera’s flash going off.

🎵 strong as i wanna be 🎵

VO Madeleine: ”mais j'ai survécu.” (”but i survived” in french). shots of madeleine’s past, the trial by mob. extreme close-up of her crying face, the angry crowd surrounding her, her screaming while her hair is shorn. the segment ends with her throwing an iron through her shop window where a group of locals has just painted a swastika. sound effect of glass shattering.

🎵 bright as day, as light as play 🎵

madeleine’s vision of claudia as she’s turned. claudia in a yellow dress in madeleine’s shop, smiling to the camera—at madeleine—and turning to the mirror. the whole scene basks in warm, bright afternoon light.

🎵 as hard as nails 🎵

grace looks up at a slightly off-screen louis in 1x05, a hard, difficult look. they are at louis’ fake grave at night and grace is holding a funeral bouquet.

🎵 as grand as a whale 🎵

two clips after one another. first is louis being buried alive in 2x07, a silent scream as the rocks rush to cover his face. second one is his feet stepping onto the rocks in the penthouse’s sundial room. VO old daniel: ”where’s your coffin?”

(the music quiets and slows down slightly for the next line.)

🎵 as warm as the sun 🎵

close-up of claudia burning in the sun at the trial. she is turning into ash but still looks at an off-screen lestat.

🎵 as silly as fun 🎵

several clips in rapid succession. murder family laughing at a movie theatre, them dancing together—holding hands, claudia cheering riding the sidecar of a motorcycle in paris during the théâtre’s group hunting, armand smirking wearing malek’s glasses, vamp daniel’s tv interview, him laughing at the host.

🎵 as cool as a tree 🎵

real rashid steps slightly forward, hands clasped behind his back with a neutral expression.

🎵 as scary as the sea 🎵

two clips of armand in ’73. first his eyes shake as he slams daniel down with his powers in the background, then him turning slowly—eyes wide—to face daniel that’s sitting in front of him.

🎵 as hot as fire 🎵

three clips showing fire in the show. first: daciana throwing herself into the flames, second: armand’s fire gift, him looking at a flame in his hand, third: the théâtre’s fire starting behind louis as he looks into claudia’s mirror backstage. the mirror reads ”tweedily deedily dead”.

🎵 cold as ice 🎵

louis cuts off santiago’s head, louis smirking, looking down. VO: louis’ satisfied chuckle.

🎵 sweet as sugar and everything nice 🎵

VO louis and old daniel: ”would you like a sample?” ”i’m a savory man most days.” with first a clip of armand-as-rashid’s blissful expression as louis drinks from him at the dinner table in 1x05, then three clips of sweet treats: the strawberry dessert from 1x02 being set in front of daniel, daniel taking a bite of it, then young daniel sipping his grasshopper at mary’s. the clip ends with old daniel’s hand pushing his coffee cup forward, requesting a refill.

🎵 as old as time 🎵

armand stares at a painting depicting him in the louvre, eyes wide, brows slightly furrowed, head slightly turned.

🎵 as straight as a line 🎵

the recording on daniel’s laptop flatlining, him looking at armand, armand smiling warmly at him.

🎵 as royal as a queen 🎵

lestat basks in all his king raj mardi gras costume glory, he smiles widely up at the camera positioned above his head.

🎵 as buzzed as a bee 🎵

lestat on stage in 2x03, wiggling his shoulders, smiling playfully, flipping his coat tails up and bending over for the audience.

🎵 as stealth as a tiger 🎵

estelle and celeste spying on louis and claudia in paris.

🎵 smooth as a glider 🎵

armand floats up the louvre floors as louis and dreamstat take the stairs.

🎵 pure as a melody, pure as i wanna be 🎵

first, a shot of louis and paul dancing at grace’s wedding, smiling at each other. then, a close-up of paul sitting of the roof, turning to look at an off-screen louis as the screen slowly fades to black and another watermark appears. the voiceover is paul and louis’: ”i love you, louis.” ”i love you too, baby brother.”

/end video description]

[murfpersonalblog]

IWTV Musings - "77 Years Based on A Seismic Lie!"

Imma need someone to explain to me how Armand's trauma from watching Marius burn made him "feel absolutely powerless" enough that it would be hubris for him to think he couldn't stop the Theatre des Vampires from killing Claudia & Louis. Powerless WHERE? WHEN? HOW? When according to the Talamasca, his prior coven in the 1700s died right after Lestat dumped him--which we know in the books was NOT a mass suicide like AMC!Armand claimed, but him actually destroying his own coven himself. But he's still the-boy-who-cried-Suicide!, even when he knows good & darn well that HE'S the one driving people to their deaths because of HIS failings--a pattern that repeats over & over.

From where I'm standing, Armand seemed pretty darn confident in his ability to kill any vampires he WANTED to kill--and equally capable of saving/sparing any vampires he WANTED to save/spare--as was his wont as the Coven Master/Maitre; the ONLY vampire in his whole effing coven with the Fire Gift & Time Gift, PLUS the Cloud Gift, AND mastery of the Mind Gift & Spell Gift.

Cuz although THE seismic lie AMC!Armand told was about "Banishment," that's AMC's show-only plot twist. In the books, the actual quote of contention about Armand's honesty/sincerity/trustworthiness was about him claiming "I could not prevent it--" the effing title of 2x7, when Claudia dies & Louis' buried alive. The pattern of Armand's behavior is that Lestat's fledglings keep ending up suicidal and/or dead under Armand's watch; while he points fingers at everyone else with his patented 🥺 👉 👈 face.

So make this make sense, y'all. What on earth does Armand's (in)actions during the Trial (and his 77 years of lies burying the truth about that night) have to do with him feeling powerless cuz of the trauma from watching Marius burn?

[isycamor]

i do kind of have mixed feelings about the armand reveal i will not lie. but at the same time, I think we forget that we still do not have all the information (lestat’s pov, and armand’s unfiltered pov of the trial, maybe even sam’s pov loool). also i don’t think this was particularly ooc nor do i think that it flattens armand’s character.

one,i think him doing this is completely in line with what we have seen from his character thus far. at this point (ep4/6 in paris) imo it is clear that he is feeling unloved/rejected on some level by louis [dreamstat haunting their relationship was the proverbial shoe waiting to drop; there was always a lingering feeling of inadequacy armand was feeling in his relationship with louis and considering his history (his trauma) we know how deeply this would affect him]. madeleine semi-confirms that there’s a sort of wall in the vulnerability of the loumand relationship when she asks louis why he doesn’t tell armand he loves him. armand is a character that desperately wants to be wanted, is desperately insecure, and on top of that, like assad said in an interview, very forward thinking. i think he really did not think his relationship with louis would survive — not with the burden of lestat, the burden of claudia/madeleine, and honestly i think it was coupled with a lot of self-hatred. the coven was a far more reliable decision for him. louis, throughout their relationship, was not a very consistent partner if we’re being honest (and i say this as a ldpdl apologist every tongue that rises against louis shall fall unless in defense of claudia). he refused to join the coven, he was constantly haunted by lestat in vital moments of loumand relationship development, he and armand were on verryyy different wavelengths about the labeling of their relationship, madeleine’s turning in itself i think also put a major strain in their relationship, etc. i don’t say this to excuse armand, but to contextualize his feeling of isolation within the relationship.

and thinking about his history, his trauma, i really do think that he would latch onto whatever seems to be the most consistent. he yearns for that commitment, and to feel wanted; and if he was not feeling that with louis, he would make the decision to stay with the coven. years upon years of abuse, and having that abuse be tied with a twisted sense of worship with marius, I believe has stunted armand significantly. armand is cunning, manipulative, whatever, but he really does not like being a leader. he leans into subservient positions constantly, and i think this is a pattern of learned helplessness that would explain why he perhaps may have felt as though he “could not prevent it” wrt the trial. i think him honestly believing he could not prevent it and also directing the whole thing are not really mutually exclusive here.

i don’t think this diminishes his love for louis at all either, he loved louis before during and after the trial, and the trial’s preparation. this was done in response to feeling unloved by him, not in response to not loving him. and i think, at least within the show’s presented narrative thus far, witnessing the actual trial along with lestat’s action versus his own inaction at its conclusion perhaps really put his guilt and regret into perspective which led to him saving louis from the wet room. and after finding a way to be with louis again (claiming to have saved him), and having louis speak to his commitment to him (even if it was done as a way to torture lestat), made armand solely focused on preserving his relationship with louis in any way possible - and unfortunately that meant also preserving this big lie. armand isn’t some supervillain that secretly wants louis dead - he did genuinely spend his life trying to make up for it. he is desperately desperately lonely and he has lived centuries feeling inadequate and unloved. this deep deep insecurity and attachment to preserve feeling loved/wanted drives his actions in paris, in san francisco, and in dubai.

so no! i don’t think it reverses any development of his character at all! honestly, apart from delainey’s claudia, armand was my shining star of season 2. assad played him brilliantly, and i don’t think this finale diminished the complexity assad (and the writers) gave to this character at all.

(i also think having this revealed and what this will do to armand’s psyche (as a character who i think is really really afraid to look inward) is such fun setup for season 3)

[ekcess]

I've heard many people say that during the trial, Madeline's courage is contrasted with Armand's cowardice. And I don't think it's fair. Because first we need to see how contrasted this:

and this:

Armand did not choose Louis not because he has trust issues, but because he is not blind. For the fuck sakes, Louis was laughing at the love confession. Well, not him, his imaginary fatherhusband, which only makes the situation worse. Armand had to risk everything for this?

Besides, he had saved him after all. Twice, if you count San Francisco. And all this could have been avoided if Louis had listened to Lestat (or Claudia, or Armand). He was told not to go to Paris, that European vampires are vicious. But nooo, these theater kids are suckers, what can they do?

[nalyra-dreaming]

Hi there!

Just saw one of your reblogs for lestats role in the trial and it reminded me of something I was thinking the other day that has actually more to do with louis.

Louis chose to stay with armand, is shown to forgive armand and even present him as his current love of his life despite armand fully knowing about the premeditated public executions of himself and his daughter.

From louis pov armand knew for months, could have prevented it for months and only at the last minute "changed his mind" (we know the reveal showed that was not the case but louis didn't know that). And he STILL chose to stay with him. For all his talk about avenging claudia he let armand go unpunished.

Why? Because he thought armand saved him.

That is shown to be louis' choise way before any mental influence from armand started taking place.

When the reveal about lestat happened the same parameters were shown but reversed to lestat instead of armand.

He is shown to rehearse, know about the trial and choose to save louis in the end. We don't know his actual state during that (and rolin loves to make all lestat injuries imaginary 🫠)

Book readers know what happened and what might get picked up in season 3... but then again they have changed a lot of aspects from the books especially where lestat is concerned. Changing this too would not be a stretch given their choices so far.

Also a lot of show watchers know nothing about the books and if you only watch the show coming to this type of conclusions is understandable imo.

I hope and pray rolin will choose to actually follow the books for this one but I can't know that he will and unless proven otherwise we kinda have to live with these takes for now 😅

Hey nonny,

ermmm.... I - forgive me - but no. We do not have to live with these takes, because actually the show gives us everything we need - you just have to pay attention.

This is what I meant in another post about what I would change on the show with the show being too subtle.

Because you obviously missed a few rather important clues.

Louis didn't choose to stay with Armand.

(Outside the initial spiteful decision, maybe. And even that I doubt, because the tower scene... is damned weird, and I doubt it happened as told.) Armand manipulated, lied, edited Louis' mind, and kept him in a literal golden cage. THIS is Louis' face when Armand chose to reveal himself at the end of 1x07:

That's trepidation.

You might want to read this post, as to "The Graduate", which Rolin Jones named for that scene, it is a direct reference, and has not much to do with why you take it for. Keep in mind that this analysis was written way before s2 though and does not contain its reveals.

In s2 it becomes clear over the episodes that Armand keeps Louis as the proverbial "Stepford Wife" in Dubai - edits his mind when he acts out, edits it when Louis asks questions, the diary request is not followed up on, Louis' mood changes are blatant.

He literally puts words into Louis' mind to say. 2x05. Daniel Hart accentuated it all beautifully with that single note.

Louis does not forgive Armand.

Louis literally does not forgive Armand, because IN THE VERY MOMENT when he gets the truth, in 2x08, he throws Armand into the wall for it and leaves him.

Like, these are Armand's words there, when he runs after Louis:

One night, 70 years ago. You are over this, Louis! The pain of it has left you. Don't let an insignificant detail, delivered from am insignificant mortal... You have forgiven me for what part I played in her death! And time has opened back up to us and we are once again teachers of one another.

And who knows, maybe Armand even believes it. (Though I doubt it because Assad says Armand sees Louis as a vessel for himself.)

But Louis throws Armand into the wall after this, and Jacob said it was to "make him stop lying".

That's not forgiving.

Louis thought Armand had been roped into the trial, had been made to think Armand was only a victim in it, like he was.

But Armand was the director, as is very much evident in the trial script. And when that becomes clear, his rage is quite clear as well. And he goes to Lestat immediately.

____

A lot of show watchers (only) seem to not pick up on a lot of clues, and I don't mean this in any ill will.

But this show needs you to think when you watch it, at least if you want to analyze it. It's okay if you don't - but if you want to understand it, or follow the twists, then you need to pick up the clues.

And pay a LOT of attention to the details.

Because the details are there. Hints to the truth are there.

For example Murder Night - that cannot have happened as shown either. The writers said they would revisit still, and Claudia's little diary with Lestat' blood does not match what Louis told. Or the train scene - neither the time tables nor the cities match, Lestat cannot have brought back Claudia as told. Or the twice given speech on the radio on different evenings that was actually only given once. The wound of Antoinette's taken off finger, which doesn't match. Louis and Claudia being not as afraid of Lestat as they claimed. Lestat's outburst at the chess game being about more than just a temper tantrum.

And so on.

You think these are coincidences?

On this show?

No.

But they are subtle.

Very subtle.

And I have a feeling they are too subtle for some.

Because people are used to be fed a story that they can believe, for a show to have an objective truth.

And that is very much not the case here.

And it doesn’t have anything to do with book reader‘s knowledge and all to do with attention to details. And the willingness to doubt what you’re told.

Because we were fed a tale - not the (whole) truth.

[best-iwtv-scene]

ROUND 1B, MATCH 4

Descriptions/Propaganda under the cut:

Armand betrayal reveal (2x08)

After Louis declares the end of his story halfway through the final episode, Daniel reveals an original copy of the trial's script, littered with notes from Armand in the margins. Barely containing his emotions, Louis flicks through the script, realising that the trial- and Claudia's subsequent murder- was led by his companion of seventy-seven years. Additionally, Daniel reveals that Lestat was the vampire who saved Louis from execution in the trial, rather than Armand, adding yet another lie to their relationship. Daniel is almost feverish from being able to unpick the mystery of the Dubai interview that has been haunting him since 1x01, Louis is enraged from realising the last seven decades of his life have been based on a lie, and Armand is desperately trying to hold onto the broken parts of their relationship, despite the fact that it has been in pieces from the very beginning. Louis throws Armand against a wall and thanks Daniel, a bond forged between the two, and burns his laptop, destroying it, but not erasing the interviews entirely. The scene is scored by 'Which Ever Way Your Nose Bends', composed by Simon David Rackham and performed by Piano Circus. This piece also features heavily in 2x05, the unique six-piano arrangement used to represent fragmented memories coming together and plays throughout the reveal in 2x08, building in intensity as it progresses. "Where does the bullshit start, Armand, Amadeo, Arun? You were supposed to die with Claudia. He didn't save you, Lestat did!"

Propaganda:

No propaganda was submitted for this scene.

"Rest" (2x05)

After five days trapped in the San Francisco apartment, Armand finally goes to drain Daniel completely. Armand tempts Daniel into an "easeful death" in a similar way to how Santiago is seen to seduce his victims into death during the theatre's performances. An exhausted Daniel tries to resist, quietly saying that he is "a bright young reporter with a point of view", in an attempt to refute Armand's claims of a mediocre and disappointing future ahead of him. Eventually, Daniel gives in, holding onto Armand as he leans in to bite his exposed neck. For a few moments, the pair embrace while Armand drinks from Daniel, until he is interrupted by Louis stumbling into the room, saving Daniel's life. The scene is oddly loving despite its dark nature, particularly due to the high tension of the episode so far, and it shows the strength of Daniel, able to resist Armand's seduction even for just a moment. This scene is scored by an unreleased track, incorporating the piano motifs of Armand's theme, with a string melody over the top, drowning out the piano as Armand zeroes in on Daniel's neck. "An easeful death [...] It'll feel like a bath. Rest. Like honey on your tongue. It is the comfort we all long for... the end." "... Rest." "Rest. Come, come. I'll hold you. You rest now."

Propaganda:

No propaganda was submitted for this scene.

[avelera]

What if Louis/Armand in AMC IWTV is meant to be torture... for Lestat?

Basically... what if the whole relationship between Louis and Armand, going back to when Armand first encountered him, is a deliberate "fuck you" to Lestat by Armand, and that is his chief motive for having the relationship at all? For keeping Louis in a gilded prison, for making Louis his love at all, for allowing the interview, and for little things like telling Lestat that Louis was injured, but not telling him where or how to help or passing on the "I love you" to Louis, and perhaps effectively keeping Louis away from Lestat ever since in a game of keep-away, as the most effective way to torture Lestat that Armand has in his possession.

I want to preface this theory by saying it's probably a bridge too far. That's a lot of premeditated malice to ascribe to Armand. I do think there was and is love there between Armand and Louis as seen in the show.

But at the same time... this might surprise some show watchers, but book Armand is an ancient creature of malice who uses his boyish looks to appear soft and gentle when he is anything but. He's over 500 years old and he spent 200 of those years running the Paris Children of Darkness, a Satanic organization that gave his life meaning and purpose during those years.

And even with show Armand, we've seen him capable of playing the long game, pretending to be someone else in Season 1 as he played Fake Rashid, with motives for doing so that are still inscrutable.

We've already seen as of ep 2.6 that Lestat broke up Armand's Paris Coven, the Children of Darkness. But I want to get into why Armand might have been lying about how he was fine with it, that he saw it coming for years, that Lestat was just the instrument of his own desire to move on from that squalid situation.

What if he wasn't fine with it? What if he still isn't fine with it? What if the long game, ever since, is to take everything away from Lestat that Armand can get his hands on, including Claudia, but especially Louis?

Well, to give my evidence for this I'll have to delve into the books a bit, so proceed at your own risk for spoilers.

Here's an excerpt from The Vampire Lestat, with Armand speaking to Lestat after the events in Paris, when he forced Lestat to testify in the trial against Louis and Claudia, because it was always Armand's plan to put Claudia on trial so he could get rid of her and have Louis for himself. For Louis to be buried alive in punishment so that Armand could save him and they could depart together:

"[Armand] leaned forward, and his face transformed itself as it had done years and years ago, as if his rage were melting it from within. 

“You, who destroyed all of us, you who took everything. Whatever made you think that I would help you!” He came closer, the face all but collapsed upon itself. “You who put us on the lurid posters in the boulevard du Temple, you who made us the subject of cheap stories and drawing room talk!” ...

...“We had our Eden under that ancient cemetery,” he hissed. “We had our faith and our purpose. And it was you who drove us out of it with a flaming sword. What do we have now! Answer me! Nothing but the love of each other and what can that mean to creatures like us!”"

Armand plays the long game. Armand is a creature of spite and malice, at least through Lestat's eyes in his own autobiography.

Armand was not fine with the Paris Coven being dispelled. He was not fine with Lestat's generosity or the new purpose given to him by Lestat by establishing the Theatre des Vampires. He loathed it.

And after this above exchange with Lestat, Armand picked up Lestat and flew him up high above Paris and dropped him. Armand did that to Lestat in the books, it wasn't Lestat to Louis (though that could simply be a change for the show, or perhaps even reinvented as a deliberate act of revenge on Louis' behalf for what Lestat did to him, and not some sort of mind alteration by Armand but... we'll see.)

It would be a hell of a twist to end the season on. Arguably, a twist akin to the reveal of Rashid-is-actually-Armand at the end of the first season. That this has all, all of it, since the 1940s been one long revenge play against Lestat.

Again, I think it's probably a bridge too far, too cartoonishly evil, but...man, there is that but lingering in my mind. Because this is the sort of thing Armand would do. He's done it before in the books with the trial of Louis and Claudia being one elaborate pantomime to punish Lestat and Claudia and get Louis to himself.

And it's been bothering me ever since the reveal at the end of S1 that we're in an AU where Louis/Armand stayed together instead of breaking up right after Paris like they did in the book. And if I was writing this canon divergence AU, it would be a hell of a thing to make the pivot point be, "No, Louis and Armand didn't break up because Armand wouldn't let Louis go because all of this has been one long elaborate fuck you to Lestat for destroying the Children of Darkness and robbing Armand of the purpose he'd had in life for over 200 years." 70 years of revenge by comparison? That's nothing.

[nightcolorz]

let your thoughts on the finale run WILD god knows i want to hear them 🙏🙏

OOOO YES OK!!! I’m going to start with my Armand twist thoughts bcus ik that is a point of contention among my fellow Armand apologists and ik y’all have been waiting to hear how I feel about it haha. Then I’m gonna yap about Daniels turning for similar reasons, and cuz I have theories!!!

I can’t say I’m surprised that Lestat saved Louis instead of Armand, I honestly thought when I was first watching ep7 that it was Lestat saving Louis until it cut to Armand doing the mass mind control and I was like oh ok, that makes sense ig. But I was very much willing to accept that Armand was planning to let Louis die, and so I’m def not having much trouble accepting it now lol.

I think amc made Armand just the right amount of devious when it comes to his involvement in the trial without bordering into out of character territory. I imagine directing the trial was elating for him after his panic about loosing his place in the coven. It makes perfect sense to me why he would want Louis dead 😭‼️. He basically explains it himself lol, when he says to Louis that his choice was between his coven of 200 years or his boyfriend who is actively putting him in danger and severing his sense of security. As Armand says lol, he couldn’t rely on Louis’s devotion to him to last as long as his coven has, and his priority is always going to be preserving that safety rather then being loyal to ppl he loves. Armand sees love as extremely transactional and entirely based in how secure he feels in it, how long it lasts, how much it does for him, etc (bcus hes Never been actually loved b4 oops). So once he realizes that Louis is doing nothing but putting him in jeopardy, and is actually pretty uncaring towards him, and he is given that choice, then of course he chooses the coven so thoroughly that he’s willing to let Louis die.He’s not wrong about Louis being an unreliable person to bet all his cards on💀 Louis only stayed with Armand for so long out of spite against Lestat, not out of any real love for him. And for Armand love is only worthwhile if it’s also protection and security, and Louis is not gonna give him that.

what I find interesting is how despite Armand’s plan being to kill Louis, he made the choice to stay with him even tho he wanted him dead. And I think Armand decided to stay with Louis purely because Louis burned down the theater, and without Louis Armand had nothing else. He always needs that security, that thing to devote himself to so he isn’t alone or aimless, bcus Armand doesn’t know how to live if he is not given a purpose. The learned helplessness was rlly getting me, the way he knows Louis is going to destroy the thing he just put sm effort into preserving and he doesn’t do anything to stop him. He doesn’t even act to try and preserve his relationship with Louis, he sits there limply with his head down and blankly admits that Louis will never forgive him and their relationship is ruined 💀. I think he only makes the choice to attach himself to Louis when Louis tells Lestat (and Armand) that he is going to stay with Armand. The way he’s staring at him like a wide eyed dog waiting for master to pull his leash during the scene in Magnus’s chambers, his needy little glances after he kisses him, he’s waiting for commands 😭😭 he’s waiting for Louis to give him a purpose after he destroyed the thing he was desperately clinging to

With all this being said tho, I don’t think that Armand doesn’t love Louis. As I said he has a very warped view of how love works, and even tho I’m sure it would hurt Armand to see Louis die, he both considers loosing Louis an inevitability that will be less painful if he has control of the circumstances, and he considers the loss of loved ones who are not safe/secure/useful a necessity. Armand is very used to loosing the ppl he loves in cold and painful ways 😭 for him this is the way life for a vampire is, and it doesn’t matter how he feels about it, it has to be done. When Armand says “i could not prevent it” it’s goofy asf cuz, um yes you could have sweetie ❤️🙏. But I think part of him means that, he rlly does feel like the cruelty he puts ppl through is all he can do, it’s not a choice it’s an inevitability, it’s just how he is.

i stand by with all my heart my analysis that Armand is not a manipulative or calculated person. He is clearly not so good at being manipulative lol, and his lies r only rlly affective bcus of Louis’s willingness to believe them. He lies out of fumbling desperation and fear, not out of any sort of deviousness or evil spite, lmao. He’s lived a life where he has to fight to survive, and he’s willing to do anything it takes to ensure his own safety. Armand is out for himself basically, lol. And if Louis has to die for Armand’s well-being, welp, sucks to suck 💀. If Armand has to lie to Louis so that Louis will stay with him, oop! Well he’s gonna try his best 🙏 lmaoo

When it comes to daniels turning, ahhhh!!! Omg ok, was very excited about this. My theory: cuz I’ve seen a lot of ppl upset about this and confused now that “devils minion can’t happen”. Babes I am so certain devils minion did happen ‼️ especially after this.

So after the reveal Armand is begging Louis to forgive him and trying to desperately convince him that they can still be together after this, the way he’s stuttering honestly broke my heart 😭 he may be a devious little bitch but he is my little princess and I love him. But anyways, Armand is coming to terms with (when he’s thrown out of the house, and then thrown into the wall) that the person he has been betting everything on for 77 yrs, the person he has been depending on for his purpose and his security, is gone and he has nothing else. “Without Louis I am nothing.” ‼️‼️ so as he’s lying in that rubble Armand’s thinking, I’m nothing. And knowing him, probably trying to desperately find smth else to fill the black hole.

and daniels there, and knowing Daniel, he’s not leaving. He’s getting sos messages from Raglan telling him to get the fuck out of there 😭 but raglan was the person who told Daniel that Louis is the dangerous one, not Armand, and well Louis’s left. And Daniel isn’t going to leave a fascinating story in the rubble just to go back to his shitty old man home, no sir.

So here we have it, Armand is more desperate and alone than he’s been in 77 years, and Daniel is staying with him. I imagine he helps him leave Louis’s house while he’s injured, probably drops him at a hotel or smth. And Armand has just lost his life line, and is looking for a new one, and here’s Daniel, helping him back on his feet, not leaving. I think that Daniel ends up fascinated by Armand and by some pull unable to leave him, and he stays with Armand for a while while he’s recovering from the divorce. And in my mind devils minion in the past still happened, and Armand knows this, maybe Daniel does, maybe not. Either way Daniel feels the connection. And through the power of desperation and nurse maid style rebounding, Armand turns Daniel bcus he can’t stand to be alone. And oh boy, the Armand apparently fucks all the way off right after, probably out of guilt for breaking his ultimate rule to not ever make another vampire, which aligns with book canon, where Armand and Daniel separate partly bcus of Armand’s guilt. And so here we r

I am completely certain that Louis’s claim that Armand turned Daniel out of spite is wrong, and based in Louis’s bitter post divorce bias. Especially considering how Daniel does nottt have the attitude of a man who was just turned into a vampire against his will out of anger 💀 that is youthful gay boy silly Billy lusting for life 70s Daniel in the flesh right there, that is the face of a man who’s minion has been deviled, yknow yknow. And Armand would never do that, turn someone (let alone Daniel), out of spite. If that was the case that would be an unforgivable character assassination, which I don’t think is likely to be true based on everything they get right about Armand. Armand turned Daniel out of desperation, bcus he needs Someone so that he won’t “be nothing”, not spite.

thank u sm for the ask beloved mutual ❤️❤️ I hope u enjoy this!!! I am going to be posting and answering a lot of asks today lol, and I have a lot more thoughts so stay tuned!!

[pynkhues]

How do you think Lestat conceptualizes what Louis feels for him? Watching s1, especially with the context of s2, it really looks like Lestat genuinely thought Louis never really loved. I find the contrast between 1x1 and the latter half of s1 so interesting. It seem to me that without being able to read Louis' thoughts and with Louis' refusal to verbally affirm his feelings, he genuinely started to believe that Louis was interested in him physically at most, and then not even that (which must've stang especially, seeing how it can be argued that Lestat has a tendency to objectify himself and tie his self-worth to his desirability as a trauma response). We're really just speculating for now, obviously, but I'm wondering about your thoughts on modern day Lestat especially!

That's an interesting question, anon! Mm, I'd say that he must have known Louis had feelings for him at the very least before he turned him - he could still read his mind at that point after all, and they were courting for a year - but I tend to think that would probably have been a combination of deep affection and attraction more than anything else, given - - y'know. Louis didn't even know they were courting, haha. During their relationship - - I don't know, I suspect he probably pendulumed between knowing that Louis loved him, and having genuine doubt too.

Lestat's raised by Gabrielle to understand that love is something that's generally withheld, and depending on your reading of his relationship with Nicki, I do think that perhaps further entrenched parts of that. While Nicki can be generous, loving and affectionate, the way they break up with Nicki swearing he actually hated him all along and wanted them to die together in Paris would fuck anyone up, especially given Louis and Nicki have some similarities (although I don't think they have as many as parts of the fandom do, really, same with Louis and Gabrielle - I think all three of them are pretty unique characters).

Lestat's a chronic romantisier of his own history as a means of emotional survival, but I don't think he forgets much, and I imagine that the memory of his and Nicki's break-up probably coloured a lot of his and Louis' fights, particularly the one where Louis technically broke up with him before returning with Claudia (Louis, the disaster you are, ily), so in those moments - - yeah. I think he probably thought Louis had never actually loved him, but I think in the moments when they were good, when they were happy, he probably was unwavering in his belief that Louis did.

(It's kind of interesting to think about too that Louis did tell Lestat he hated him too, only where Nicki said it while breaking up with Lestat, Louis said it while getting back together with him, and I'm genuinely looking forward to those parallel gifsets in s3, haha).

I do think he took Louis saving his life as an act of love though, and I think in the long aftermath of that, both before the Trial and after it, when Louis chose Armand, it's probably the thing he clung to the most as reflective of that. There's so much that he feels - the cord between them, their hearts beating in time, the memories of the best of it all - but Lestat's also a character with just so much baggage (totally agree about Lestat objectifying himself as both a trauma response and a manifestation of insecurity, and that Louis no longer wanting to have sex [which is absolutely his right, and normal] was something Lestat took as a much deeper rejection than Louis realised), that I think can outweigh that sometimes.

So yeah, I'd say it probably varies based on his mood and maybe even the minute. A part of him knows, a part of him doubts, the only thing he can be sure of is that he himself loves Louis, and Lestat might withhold his history, but he rarely withholds his emotions.

[cbrownjc]

Thoughts and Speculation after 2x07 (Spoilers):

A lot of people have said that this moment from the Season 2 trailers might actually be caused by a fight between Louis and Armand in the penthouse:

gif credit: @hermit-frog

And I have to say, after watching episode 2x07? I think they might be right.

Because if you know the book, you know that it is at the very end of it, like literally the last few pages, where it's revealed that Louis knew the whole time about Armand's role in what happened to Claudia. And they break up.

And so I think the same thing is coming next week on the show. Only in the show's regard, Louis knew of Armand's role, as we saw here -- but then was made to forget the actual full context of just how involved Armand was.

Because, as I pointed out on Twitter, this image from the trial --

-- is quite something. You have both the writer and director for the Théâtre des Vampires not on stage for this whole thing. Very much underlying the fact that this is a theatrical play that is being put on. As we saw, there was even a real, actual SCRIPT for this whole thing!

Like, how much more could the show have been pointing to what was really going on here? Trust a writing staff of playwrights to be meta about all of this. 🙃

Because the ending of this trial was written and locked in long ago. And who is the one that usually says when a play or film is locked in and finished?

The Director. (And yes I know producers and studios do too, but Armand is very much all of that wrt his role for their little theater as well).

BTW, Santiago and the coven did NOT expect Armand to do that to the audience. Saving Louis was very much off-script. And if Armand really had no power here, the coven could have just taken Louis off stage and killed him another way. The only reason they didn't was because Armand was very much not powerless in all of this.

Like, I love Armand's character, I really do -- now. But that is something that only came about after I read the books from Queen of the Damned forward. For the first two books, I very much did not like him. And, particularly when it comes to the Paris part of this story, that is where we are with his character right now. I know why he's doing what he's doing, I understand it. But I can't defend it.

Louis probably figured things out before San Francisco in 1973. He probably knew Armand's full role in what went down, same as in the book, after it all happened. But it was his suicide attempt that had Armand redact that knowledge from Louis' mind. The clues for that being the case are all there after episode 2x05.

Because, at the end of the day, even knowing Armand's full role in Claudia's death, Louis still mostly blamed himself for it all.

As we see, things are slowly starting to come back to Louis, but he's not fully there yet. And I think this whole memory thing is a more literal interpretation of the veil that descended over Louis' mind after Paris in the books.

A veil that only began to lift once Armand revealed to Louis that Lestat was alive. As we've seen, Louis knew Lestat was alive back in 1973. I'm not sure if he does so now. But maybe this isn't about knowing if Lestat is alive or not. Maybe it's just Louis thinking he needed to be punished because of his own role in failing Claudia -- and staying away from Lestat was part of that self-punishment. Because that view is a feeling I got when watching episode 2x05 and Louis not wanting to speak to Lestat. His refusal to speak wasn't out of anger IMO, but more fear and even sorrow.

The show is very much sticking to the beats of the book with all of this, and not revealing things about what happened that were revealed in later books. So I don't think Louis fully knows what was going on with Lestat during that trial. I wouldn't be surprised if we learn he still doesn't, since he never learned it in the first book.

But as I said here, it was clear as day that Lestat wasn't himself during that trial. Physically and especially mentally. I didn't even guess that the show would be that obvious about it, but they were. All very much hinting about what was really going on with his appearance here.

And Louis himself might, just might figure that out for himself. Especially if Dreamstat might appear to be back in his mind again. Because Dreamstat is very much Louis' subconscious. And I think Louis' subconscious knows something important is missing wrt all of this.

It was nice that, at least in the end, someone chose Claudia. Madeleine could have escaped this but chose to die with Claudia instead when she didn't have to. Her little middle finger to the crowd gave me a smile.

They did not do the full reveal of Claudia's diaries and what was in them on stage, which I seriously thought they would. They gave a hint about it, but more so in episode 2x05 than in here. Which means that, in a later season, we're still looking at that reveal from Merrick happening it seems. But then again . . . there were some things I suspect got left out on purpose because the actual (attempted) murder of Lestat was very much glossed over for us, the audience, during that trial sequence. We are very much set to revisit that whole thing during The Vampire Lestat adaptation in Season 3, of course. But I think even more will be revealed about that there then I originally thought.

And finally, Claudia. They said in the Inside The Episode they wanted her to go out with as much strength and defiance as she could and yeah, she did. But in the end, I still think she was angry, sad, and hurt by it all, which she had every right to be. Because at the end of the day, she never should have been made and was made for all the wrong reasons. But being turned so young made her a fierce and pure vampire though and though because she never had enough time to have lived a human life to have those types of morals and outlooks fully imprinted on her. That was always one of Claudia's core traits wrt her being turned so young, and she still had it here. And yes girl, you will haunt things after this -- particularly your parents.

In fact, it probably very much was your voice Louis heard calling him back in 2x05, wasn't it?

So, for a penultimate episode, this was very, very good. And things are very much going to explode next week. I knew Louis going Carrie/Firestarter on the coven would happen in 2x08. That moment always screamed "season finale" to me. Santiago picking up Claudia's yellow dress is also significant, as I think we'll see Louis' POV of that moment with Lestat about it.

And the break up between Louis and Armand might just be much more violent than it was in the book as well.

[kutputli]

It's been two days since I finished watching Interview with the Vampire, and the show has been consuming all my brain space. I didn't have the energy to live blog each episode of season 2, but I want to get my reactions down, before I go in search of reading other people's. This will be a haphazard collection of thoughts, so I think what I will do is start talking character by character and see if that helps me organise things any.

Louis

This one is the beating heart of the show, and I don't see how it would have worked if they had not made him a Black man. Everything stems from what he learned during his life of how to survive and thrive and yet remain kind and compassionate, and watching him be fragile and loving and grieving is soul stirring. Perhaps other people might still have found the show engaging with the role played by a white character (given fandom's embrace of the slave owning pirates in Our Flag Means Death, I am sure a slave owning Louis would not have been an insurmountable problem).

But this story belongs to the Black Louis, and to what Jacob Anderson made of him. Just impeccable acting choices, all down the line. I am mesmerised by him.

Praise for the character aside, he is the moral heart of the show. (I know there is a case to be made for Claudia, but I will get to her after this.) I don't actually much enjoy villains presented as anti-heroes, and Louis engenders so much empathy in a show filled with rather awful people.

Of course, he loves Claudia. And I do see him putting her first to the best of his ability. Claudia may be entitled to her resentment, but that doesn't make it rational fact. Louis encouraging her to leave the first time, knowing that Lestat would follow him if he left, that's a valid choice. And then choosing not to burn Lestat... I am reminded of how few victims of domestic abuse actually murder their abusers. The main desire is always to get away. I don't condemn Louis for choosing to not kill his lover.

Claudia had no roots laid down in New Orleans, but Louis did, and he gave all of that up to support her really rather nonsensical search for mystical vampires who were not as awful as Lestat. He helped her join the coven even if he could see it was a cult. And when she introduced him to Madeline, he listened to her. He turned her for Claudia. I don't ever see a moment where he stopped actively caring for her and doing the labour to prove it. I took the line about her being a burden as fully just transparent bait for Armand.

And when Lestat shows up at the trial, its Claudia that Louis is focussed on. He Always. Puts. Her. First.

The way that Louis finds his way into a relationship with Armand is so heartbreakingly soft. We never see them in their intimate moments as dom and sub, but I get the sense that he would be a tender lover -what he wants is to be respected, to have control.

And then we come to the post-trial choices.

I can somewhat buy him sparing Armand's life during his vengeance murder spree, because it wasn't just that Armand said he had saved him during the trial - if you remember, Armand was only encouraging him to leave Paris. Louis was the one who asked. But also, Armand was the one who let him out of the coffin. He did save Louis, and Louis would have tasted the blood of the person who saved him and known it was him.

I think maybe Louis was able to get over Armand facilitating Claudia's murder, because he saw him as a victim paralysed in the same way that he himself had been. Louis knows about having to keep his head down and be complicit with an oppressive system, and I think he offered the benefit of the doubt to Armand because of that. Perhaps also - Louis forgave Claudia for attempting to murder Lestat because he could see her desparation and why she needed to do it. Maybe Louis created a story for himself where Armand was similarly trapped. I don't know. To me, his choice of staying with Armand is the one I am the most questioning of.

(All of this is presupposing that what we saw was what actually happened. There are indications that there is yet another layer to the trial that we don't know about, and because Louis wasn't there as primary witness for the end, maybe some new facts will emerge to make Armand either more sympathetic, or more manipulative.)

Louis's relationship with Daniel is endearing and charming and all things adorable. I hope they whatsapp each other often and have some uncomplicated relaxing stress-relieving sex.

As for Louis and Lestat... see, I was ok with what I saw on the screen. I saw an abuse survivor leave his second marriage the instant he found out he had been lied to, and I saw him visit the parent of his child for closure. Taking on the burden of Claudia's death is nonsense, of course, but it was believeable nonsense. In that I accept that Louis, after having learned that Lestat did lift a finger to partially save his life, spilled out from all his generosity and love, what he thought might help the wretched ex he saw eating on rats and playing on a plank.

But what I am not ok with, what repulses me to the core, is the apparent conviction of the show producers that Louis and Lestat are destined to return to each other, as the great love of each other's lives. It is true that some domestic abuse survivors never manage to completely free themselves from their abuser, and some spouses continue to stay with the abuser of their child (Alice Munro, looking at you). But that storyline is a horror story. Nothing in the framing of the show indicates that horror. And I do not wish for a season 3 that walks down that road.