#less common autistic traits

[my-autism-adhd-blog]

Less Common Autism Traits at School

Neurodivergent_lou

[04tenno]

Listen to me.

Funny little yuppie

Considered very handsome and "moderate"; capacity for violence is underestimated, as such

Psychological issues, erratic behavior, at least semi-unprompted extreme emotional reactions

Has a secretary who is implied to have feelings for him

Has no interest in his female partners

Hates nearly all of his colleagues

Kills one of said colleagues

Specific murder method of beheading

Shares many of the same interests (baseball, American whiskey, working out, dining at expensive restaurants, acts of torture, etc.)

Sound familiar?

Either way, I'll let you in on a little secret: making comparisons between Patrick Bateman and Yoshitaka Mine shouldn't be about making either of them out to be Cool or Scary or Intriguing. It should be about the bit.

It should be about being able to say Mine WOULD have a routine that can only be explained by him having an excess of executive function. It should be about being able to say Mine WOULD seethe over minor (some would say imperceptible) differences in color and font choices between everyone's business cards. And it should be about being able to say Mine WOULD pop a boner at a U2 concert.

[blissocean]

can we talk abt the autistic swag zora radiates more often. like, actually

[n-arts-hideaway]

The newest dunmesh episode really hit.

The fact that Shuro ridicules Laios for the very same traits he loves Falin for. This is a very common phenomenon with male vs female autistics.

Let me explain.

I am an autistic woman. My best friend is an autistic man. People are generally drawn to me at first because they are romanticizing my autistic traits into the “manic pixie dream girl” trope. To them, I’m quirky, funny, free spirited, “not like other girls”. It usually doesn’t last long though, because when they get to know me it becomes less charming. But I still have the advantage in first-time social interaction.

My male best friend on the other hand, is constantly targeted for his autistic traits. Traits that are IDENTICAL to mine. Let me be clear, we are EXTREMELY similar. He is the male version of me. People think he’s off-putting and weird (even though he’s wonderful).

Shuro is clearly in love with the IDEA of Falin. He’s in love with the romanticized version of her, but he doesn’t really KNOW her.

[flimsy-roost]

I realized the other day that the reason I didn't watch much TV as a teenager (and why I'm only now catching up on late aughts/early teens media that I missed), is because I literally didn't understand how to use our TV. My parents got a new system, and it had three remotes with a Venn diagram of functions. If someone left the TV on an unfamiliar mode, I didn't know how to get back to where I wanted to be, so I just stopped watching TV on my own altogether.

I explained all this to my therapist, because I didn't know if this was more related to my then-unnoticed autism, or to my relationship with my parents at the time (we had issues less/unrelated to neurodivergency). She told me something interesting.

In children's autism assessments, a common test is to give them a straightforward task that they cannot reasonably perform, like opening an overtight jar. The "real" test is to see, when they realize that they cannot do it on their own, if they approach a caregiver for help. Children that do not seek help are more likely to be autistic than those that do.

This aligns with the compulsory independence I've noticed to be common in autistic adults, particularly articulated by those with lower support needs and/or who were evaluated later in life. It just genuinely does not occur to us to ask for help, to the point that we abandon many tasks that we could easily perform with minor assistance. I had assumed it was due to a shared common social trauma (ie bad experiences with asking for help in the past), but the fact that this trait is a childhood test metric hints at something deeper.

My therapist told me that the extremely pathologizing main theory is that this has something to do with theory of mind, that is doesn't occur to us that other people may have skills that we do not. I can't speak for my early childhood self, or for all autistic people, but I don't buy this. Even if I'm aware that someone else has knowledge that I do not (as with my parents understanding of our TV), asking for help still doesn't present itself as an option. Why?

My best guess, using only myself as a model, is due to the static wall of a communication barrier. I struggle a lot to make myself understood, to articulate the thing in my brain well enough that it will appear identically (or at least close enough) in somebody else's brain. I need to be actively aware of myself and my audience. I need to know the correct words, the correct sentence structure, and a close-enough tone, cadence, and body language. I need draft scripts to react to possible responses, because if I get caught too off guard, I may need several minutes to construct an appropriate response. In simple day-to-day interactions, I can get by okay. In a few very specific situations, I can excel. When given the opportunity, I can write more clearly than I am ever capable of speaking.

When I'm in a situation where I need help, I don't have many of my components of communication. I don't always know what my audience knows. I don't have sufficient vocabulary to explain what I need. I don't know what information is relevant to convey, and the order in which I should convey it. I don't often understand the degree of help I need, so I can come across inappropriately urgent or overly relaxed. I have no ability to preplan scripts because I don't even know the basic plot of the situation.

I can stumble though with one or two deficiencies, but if I'm missing too much, me and the potential helper become mutually unintelligible. I have learned the limits of what I can expect from myself, and it is conceptualized as a real and physical barrier. I am not a runner, so running a 5k tomorrow does not present itself as an option to me. In the same way, if I have subconscious knowledge that an interaction is beyond my capability, it does not present itself as an option to me. It's the minimum communication requirements that prevent me from asking for help, not anything to do with the concept of help itself.

Maybe. This is the theory of one person. I'm curious if anyone else vibes with this at all.

[mushroom-punk]

being neurodivergent, especially autistic, is a uniquely isolating experience. it is no surprise that someone socially ostracized and bullied by his peers from a young age (and raised in an abusive household no less) would find such comfort in the other, even if that other is monstrous. when we eat, we are acknowledging our food as a piece of our lives. our food has the privilege of nurturing, of healing, and the other living things we consume are not gone to waste. by refusing to eat monsters, due to some socially constructed law, we are eliminating them from normality. we are labeling them as strange, as other. when laios's interest in monsters leads him to want to eat them (and perhaps, be one himself), that isn't because he simply thinks they would taste good. he desire is to bring them into his life, accept them and acknowledge them as part of his world, and let them nurture him. because then, if these creatures, deemed unacceptable by others, can in fact be accepted, maybe he can too. dungeon meshi asks that you think about human nature. is it in our nature to other and belittle those we can't understand? as a social species, is it in our genes to attempt to remove our flaws? what does it mean for a trait to be in our nature? the answer of course, is no. there is only one thing we all share in common, and that is hunger (and, well, death. which the manga has much to say about too). hunger for both something we desire, whether that's power, love, or a wish we could never see realized. and, obviously, hunger in the literal sense. the hunger that ties us to all living things, that reminds us that we are animals as well. to eat or to be eaten. both these hungers can be destructive. hunger, or desire, too much? let what we desire destroy us, consume us in turn? or starve, become numb, nothing without any desires at all? humans are ultimately connected by a shared web of experiences which draw us together. the easiest way, of course, being over a shared meal.

[cuntess-carmilla]

My biggest concern with the autistic community is the intense efforts by the most privileged autistics to limit the public's perception of us to only the most absurdly acceptable autistics:

White + gentile.

Skinny and "cute".

Verbal (yes, including those of us with selective mutism who're still verbal a large part of the time).

Not physically disabled (big special fuck you to those of us whose physical disabilities are visible at all, such as through needing mobility aids, being bedridden, etc).

Not intellectually disabled (despite how many autistic people are ID!!!!).

Not sensory disabled (blind, deaf/HoH, etc).

Low support needs (which doesn't mean NO needs).

As close to the "ex-gifted kid" stereotype as possible.

Able to work (yes, even if it's really excruciating).

Not prone to public meltdowns or other more "embarrassing" behaviors, traits or symptoms.

Can usually mask.

No other psychiatrized condition that's heavily stigmatized.

Those of us who fail to fit that extremely narrow model of autism, get just. Plain pushed back into the attic by the very few autistics who do fit that model.

It's Literally THE least vulnerable autistics pushing the rest of us out of all visibility, space and voice, because we're inconvenient and honestly, because they don't want to think they're like us too, in the same way allistics freak out when they find out that Oh No, Autistics Are Human Enough For Me To Have Things In Common With Them.

Autistic liberation will never come from using the exact same methods and strategies of ostracism and respectability that allistics already use on us, especially since they're still based on the same type of disgust and discomfort with people who fit the ideal of "human" less than yourselves.

[chronicbitchsyndrome]

the thing that allistics talking about social skills never seem to grasp is that i do not SEE body language or facial expressions. i am not some innocent adorably stupid little darling who's never been taught what a frown means and so now i feel like everyone is hostile to me because i'm not participating in the Necessary And Unbiased social ritual that lets everyone know i'm Safe and a Real Person.

no, i spent 10 years regularly attending social skills courses. as in, weekly at minimum, for a lot of it daily. i still cannot read body language or facial expressions because i LITERALLY CANNOT SEE THEM. i am partially faceblind. my visual processing is ganked to the point that even though i am not blind i need to use IDs to understand images. these are VERY common traits in autism, this isn't a special "just me" thing. if someone makes a face at me, i can't SEE it. sometimes i can tell that some of their facial muscles are moving, but i have no idea what they're doing and very little ability to piece together what the end result looks like as a whole picture. sometimes i can see when someone is leaning away from me, or if their whole body is shaking or something, but anything less whole-body and cartoonish than that is literally invisible to me.

allistic social norms are built around treating me as scary and unsafe for not participating in them, and i LITERALLY CANNOT SEE a good portion of what they're based on. the less physical bits--implications and social context, etc--are 10x harder when you essentially can't speak half the language, and that's not even touching on how those parts can be near impossible on their own if you have a slow processing speed--which i also do. it takes me 30-60 seconds minimum to fully process a spoken sentence and understand what the unspoken and nuanced implications of it could be, and by then i have already been slotted into "unsafe creep" territory by being entirely silent for 45 seconds. and i am considered socially adept and to have very fast processing among my autistic peers. my barriers here are MINOR compared to someone very severely socially impaired.

this is why explaining to autistics the purposes of allistic social rules and nuances and giving us tips on how to navigate them is condescending and cruel as hell. you're dangling in our faces how important and necessary and integral it is to do something we literally CAN'T do and implicitly justifying us being seen as dangerous and socially undesirable for not doing it. and you're framing it as helping because you're "teaching" us. but it's like teaching a colorblind person color theory; maybe once in a while someone will be interested, but it'll always be significantly harder for them to learn than someone who isn't colorblind, and their experience with it will always be profoundly qualitatively different and produce different results, even subtly. and their existence doesn't mean that the REST of colorblind people who don't have that energy and time and investment should just put up with literally every road sign being written in red on green when you could just make signs that are black on white to begin with.

[icethinggigachad]

Stan and Ford and the Different Flavors of Autistic-ness

Ford has that Former Gifted Child thing where his inflated arrogance comes from a place of having to prove himself, but also yeas hes neurodivergent.

(Bugs under a rock. They are so so squishy.)

The way Ford thinks reminds me of Aspie Supremacy in a way.

[Aspie supremacy describes a phenomenon where people who were dx/still identify with the term "aspergers" see themselves as being superior to non-autistics (as well as "other" autistics) where people who have (visibly) lower support needs are "acceptable" enough vs other autistic people who need more support. Of course this is complicated!]

(More thoughts under this cut)

In a less extreme way, you could compare Ford-whose autism doesnt give him the learning disabilities his brother probably does. Autism can be comorbid with many learning disabilities.

They are both autistic but when it comes to school one of them needs more than the other.

Even as Ford doesn't have academic struggles, he clearly struggles socially. He struggles caring for himself, doing basic self care, etc.

Theres a reason we are moving away from "aspergers" and "low and high functioning" because the reality of being autistic is theres lots of areas where someone can need little or no support whereas in another they may have Very high support needs.

Being a nerd might have actually saved him socially in that way since when you are dismissed as a nerdy type, you are kind of expected to be "weird or eccentric" because Thats Just How Smart People Are, and it saved him from having to mask so hard. His natural way of being jibed with a stereotype.

But Stan didnt have that so he had to mask a lot more heavily. A likely reason he was actually less popular than Ford was among their peers. Because Ford met stereotypes and he didnt.

That specific terminology didnt exist yet but I think it could apply to him.

He would see traits he has and think they are Abilities and ways of thinking and that might make him feel a sense of superiority over others. Because thats how he built up his Worth after being ostracized.

They likely didnt have the words for these things: first of all special education didnt exist, awareness about autism and disabilities wasnt so common.

Ford and stan 100% have no idea they are autistic but they feel the experience without the words to describe it.

But i think like. You know, labels like "aspie supremacy" and "former gifted kid syndrome" and also "autism" in general exist they describe the phenomenon that was already There. We just have a term describing it now.

Even now there is a divide between autistic experiences where some autistic people are praised and seen as "gifted" and "good" autistics (Ford in this case) while others are the "bad" autistics (Stan in this example) who are seen as "defiant" and are punished. And also you can be in both situations at different times (I was.)

[cripplecharacters]

im thinking about making a character who is born autistic and Deaf, would she struggle with learning ASL/[sign language proxy in story universe] because of how important expressions/facial grammar is in ASL? im autistic and hearing but im learning asl in school and it's been very difficult for me to both maintain eye contact and also know when to do the right expressions, would that be something she'd be able to learn easier from birth? thank you!

Hi!

This really depends on the person and their specific autism traits and communication difficulties.

I am autistic and I don't have a lot of trouble following facial grammar in ASL, although I do often struggle with recognizing and interpreting emotion and expression generally, as well as making my own expressions.

ASL grammar has rules of what to do when. Eyebrow movements, pufffing out cheeks, and leaning/angling shoulders are all parts of certain signs and concepts. These rules are something I personally was able to pick up on.

I do sometimes forget, or do the wrong motion! I also rock back and forth a lot, and stim with my hands while I'm signing, which may get in the way of other people understanding. I haven't had too much of a problem though--people generally have understood that it's not part of my signing, just a part of me :) [smile face]

I haven't talked with many autistic people who learned ASL as a first language. However, language delays and difficulty learning language are common among autistic people, so I think it's likely that there are autistic Deaf people who struggle with ASL grammar because they struggle with language or with facial expressions, or who have motor control difficulties that make parts of signing and/or facial grammar physically hard.

Eye contact is important in Deaf culture to show listening, but there are other ways to do that too. There are lots of signs and gestures that are genetic reactions, like how someone might say "mhm" to show they are still paying attention.

Eye contact isn't necessary 100% of the time either! Face and body are important to ASL grammar, so you definitely need to pay attention to a signer's face and body as well as their hands, but this doesn't require making eye contact. Facing the person, along with reaction signs, is usually enough.

I will add--facial grammar greatly enhances understanding, but signs alone still have meaning. A change in the "size" of expression can change the meaning of a sign by changing its intensity, or specific mouth shapes can indicate the use of a synonym, as examples. ASL is still understandable without perfect facial grammar. It may look choppy at first to native signers, but people who spend a lot of time with your character will get to understand their signing specifically.

Some other sign languages that are not ASL rely less on facial grammar. They may rely on size of the sign itself or other cues. An autistic character may still struggle with these, and have trouble replicating them.

This is really all to say: it depends greatly on the person. I don't think an autistic Deaf character's signing, if they signed with less facial expression or variation in signing size, would be significantly different to the "flat" or "unusual" affect that people often refer to autistic people's speaking voices with. However, an autistic person may still struggle with learning and conceptualizing sign language, or have physical difficulty reproducing signs.

Autism encompasses a huge spectrum of communication abilities, so you will need to decide what specifically your character struggles with before you can determine how they will sign.

Please feel free to ask more questions for specifics once you've decided more about your character!

Mod Rock

[my-autism-adhd-blog]

6 Less Common Autistic Traits

Neurodivergent_lou

Autism

[badaziraphaletakes]

We've got a wriggly one

Love a good "Ooh I'm probably going to make myself unpopular here" at the opening of an offensive post. We're off to a very good start.

If you have to preface your take with four paragraphs of disclaimers explaining how not-ableist you are, then I Have Got Some News For You

"Before you accuse me of being ableist"... I have literally never heard this phrase not followed immediately by a giant ableism, and this is no exception

"I'm not." That's not how this works. It's something we all have to fight against every day. No one is just "not ableist". We all have ableist biases that we need to work hard to be aware of and keep in check. If you think you're just "not ableist", period, end of story, that's concerning in itself.

Disabled people can literally still be ableist (and saying otherwise is in itself ableist). We’re all products of an ableist society, so we all have structural internalized ableism inside us. Just because you are not aware that you’re doing it doesn’t mean it’s not happening. It can be unconscious. It very often is.

"I've been a disability advocate for years, so I'm entitled to tell other Disabled people how to feel about their own representation" quit weaponizing your Disabled identity to oppress other Disabled people, also, I can already tell I literally never want this person as my advocate, ever

7. The Autistics never, ever need or want alltistics to speak on our behalf, so if you're not Autistic then you are most welcome to shut absolutely and completely up at your earliest convenience

8. “This is as close as I can come to being gentle"... I have an alternative theory, which is that OP could, in fact, manage to be gentle if they really tried. For example, I do not have to be scathing right now in this reply. I am doing it because that is a choice I have actively made.

9. "I say things that people misunderstand" is never a defense. Most of the time, it's victim-blaming. And by the way, if this isn't a defense for Autistic people (spoiler alert: it's definitely not), then it sure as hell isn't a defense for alltistics.

10. "This isn't meant to invalidate people's opinions" *Spends the whole post invalidating people's opinions*

11. "Unless the book specifically says x, y, or z, you're not allowed to... say that something is ableist" umm wow

12. If Autistic people say a character (a character written by an Autistic author, no less) is Autistic-coded, then yelling "no they're not" at us is a very concerning thing for someone to be doing. To anyone doing this, just think about a. Why you feel the need to talk over Autistic people about that and b. why it bothers you to have people say that character is Autistic. Seriously, take some time and think about it. And also - if you can't see how Aziraphale is Autistic-coded - how did you miss that lol? Also also - how is thinking a character isn't Autistic your "personal experience" of that character that you feel the need to cling to? ...That gives me the ick.

13. Calling someone out for doing something ableist is not "name-calling".

14. "If someone read one of my [books?]..." I'm assuming this sentence ends "I wouldn't want people deciding one of my characters was x, y, or z". Well, guess what? - If it's a book you're finished with, then it's out of your hands what people do with it now. And if everyone from the autism community is saying your character is Autistic-coded, then guess what? Congratulations, you inadvertently (or, I suspect, advertently in NG's case ^^) wrote an Autistic-coded character! Seriously, take some time to read about what "coded" means and how characters are coded as Autistic. We're not saying Azi and the Starmaker are literally, conically Autistic. We're saying they're Autistic coded. And we’re saying he has autistic traits that autistic people identify with, and calling him selfish or cruel or lacking empathy or emotionally unintelligent (just a few of the common autism stereotypes that people have flung at Aziraphale) or things like that BECAUSE OF THOSE TRAITS is ableist.

When Aziraphale struggles socially and people call him selfish or stupid because of it, how am I (someonewho struggles socially every damn day) supposed to take that?

IN CONCLUSION: In trying to tell marginalized communities why we're wrong to think certain takes are offensive, people invariably end up just saying a bunch more offensive things - and in doing so, prove exactly the point we were trying to make in the first place.

[correctproseka]

An essay on autistic Mafuyu

Coming from a very autistic person.

Mafuyu has a bunch of autism symptoms, but a lot of them can also be explained by other reasons, such as her upbring and trauma, but not all of them, so I'm going to start speaking about the explainable by other things traits and move up to "boy you're tism". (Notw that the trauma explanation can also have a pre-disposition to happen due to tism)

In the biggest "can be explained by her trauma" category, we actually have the biggest reason people headcanon her as autistic. Her Alexithymia. Which is just a fancy word for "can't recognize her own feelings". No i did not have to copy paste that name to not write it wrong. Yes, many autistic people are bad at recognizing their own feelings, me included. But we also have to note that Mafuyu absolutely hid away those feelings for a mask and because they were needs not being met, a "good girl" like her doesnt get sad or angry right? Thats what made her push down those feelings so much she just ended up.. numb. Its extremely common in depression as well as autism which made me personally not realize i was depressed until someone made me put it into words, it was similar to my normal.

Theres also her.. exquisite vocabulary, Mafuyu uses lots of fancy terms sometimes, which is very stereotypical white boy autism. But also, she was pushed books down her throat by her mom since she was a child, she was expected to be this "fancy" and "smart-sounding". So she is.

Observant. Mafuyu doesn't talk a lot, she observes. She can recognize things on others sometimes, but mostly about the environment, which can be an autism noticing a bird singing 5 blocks away or a trauma "i need to notice this or i get fucked" reaction.

Mafuyu as mentioned, tends to listen more than speak, I am personally not this kind of autism, but it exists, Mafuyu is quiet, listening and only speaking when she feels her input is needed. This can be simply a mixture of autism and trauma. She doesn't feel the need to speak, so she doesn't, why would she waste her energy like that? Smh.. but also her good girl mask is supposed to be a good listener, not much of a yapper.

Now we are starting to move onto the things she does that are less explained by trauma and more explained by tism. Which is my favorite part to analyze.

Parallel play: Mafuyu seeks comfort with being with niigo and working alongside them, she doesn't even need to be talking, as seen by the kitty event where she kept just listening to them on earphones, she just wants to be near her people and gets calmed down by being with them.

Bluntness. As an autistic person i am extremely blunt in wrong situations, and can easily not recognize its the wrong situation. Per example Mafuyu's "why dont you imagine you're gonna get killed if you dont do it in half an hour" or all the times she points something out to Ena and gets a scream back because it was the wrong time? Mafuyu says what she thinks and when out of the mask she really. Really. Lacks a filter, because she doesn't know when or what she's supposed to speak or not

She.. kind of needs people to say the obvious? Sometimes she doesnt realize whats going on, why she's reacting in a way, so and so. One of the reasons Mizuki had to tell her it's ok to run away. Mafuyu never considered it. It wasn't obvious for her like it would be for a lot of people, she's kind of very oblivious in emotional matters like that, and needs someone (coughs usually Mizuki) to explain something to her

There's probably more but im doing this in like 15 minutes.

Plus, all in all, she makes autistic people like me really relate to her, even if they can be mostly explained by trauma doesnt mean she doesn't show those signs or that they're only because of that, even the mask she uses is a known neurodivergent thing.

[lit3rally-m1ke-whlr]

guys I accidentally deleted the essay I wrote in my drafts bc I’m an idiot (I’m crying) so I’m just gonna summarize in less words bc whatever I’m not typing several more paragraphs on this. Anyway I just had to say that I feel like there’s an ableism problem in the Stranger Things fandom. Either that or this fandom just doesn’t like when characters show obvious neurodivergent traits. We see this with El being either infantilized or deemed annoying by fans when she’s clearly developmentally impaired and autistic because she struggles with understanding social cues and just wants to be normal and fit in like everyone else. She was raised in a lab, obviously she’s going to be immature and not have a strong handle on her emotional responses to things, and you don’t have to like her but it kinda sucks that she’s being hated for these things when I can relate to her so much. We also see this with Mike, and I feel like the people calling him the worst character are forgetting he’s literally just a teenage boy dealing with trauma. Like it’s as if they were never a teenager before because trust me I was just like Mike at that age if not worse. I’ll admit I used to hate him too but maturing is realizing the reasons people dislike Mike can easily be explained by either internalized homophobia or neurodivergence. He’s a bad friend? It’s because he’s trying so hard to appear straight and struggles to balance his relationships in a healthy manner, and he often speaks before thinking about how what he’s saying comes across to others, which is something many autistics/ people with ADHD do, not because we mean to hurt others but we can often be blunt or brutally honest and come across as rude (or even just lash out when we feel attacked or hurt as a way to defend ourselves but it often comes out harsher than we want it to) in my experience. He’s a bad boyfriend? He’s actually not and even then it’s because he’s gay and not in love with El but just doesn’t want to lose her. Besides he doesn’t have a great model for what a loving relationship looks like because of his parents so he may not be able to differentiate between romantic and platonic love and stays in a relationship that he’s clearly not happy in because of societal pressure to appear straight and it would be suspicious (in his mind) if they broke up because a) El literally is the coolest girl on the planet, how could he not love her and b) he loses his cover and people might start to notice and question his lack of attraction to girls. But not only that, he clearly struggles with describing and expressing his emotions or recognizing those of others (aka alexythemia) which is common in autistic people. So if he didn’t notice El’s obvious discomfort at the skating rink that’s probably why, and it’s also why he couldn’t tell her he loved her (bc it was a lie but I digress).

But perhaps the best example and the reason I decided to make this rant post is Robin’s character in s4. I remember seeing so many people saying that once the writers decided to make her lesbian they realized they didn’t know what to do with her character, some even going as far as to say they made her ditzy and stripped her of her coolness, which basically proves my point about y’all (as in the fandom in general) not liking ND people because god forbid we unmask around you, it’s no wonder so many of us feel afraid to be our true selves in front of other people. It’s almost as if she was hiding behind a persona to seem more normal and not draw unwanted attention to herself because she’s a lesbian, and once she came out to Steve and was accepted she… didn’t have to do that anymore? She felt more comfortable and safe around him to show her true personality? I don’t know but there’s something off about the way people are acting like she’s suddenly dumb or just there for comedic effect in s4 when she’s literally been so useful like she’s the one who realized music could save victims from being possessed by vecna. She’s literally the same except now she’s out to someone and she gets nervous when it comes to girls she likes, big fucking deal. Not only is this mischaracterization ludicrous and flat out wrong but it’s quite upsetting to see as someone who can relate to Robin in season 4 and is also autistic. Yes, not everyone with autism is like that but some are and to say she’s no longer cool because of it just enforces the perception of autistics as weird and unlikeable just for simply being themselves and makes us feel like we can only be liked or taken seriously if we keep the mask on.

look at me I said I would keep it brief this time but I still ended up writing an entire wall of text on this anyway lol thanks for coming to my Ted talk ig

[ask-an-epidemiologist]

So how do you change an anti-vaxxer's mind, anyway?

First, understand that sometimes, the answer is simply: you can't. Some people are very firmly entrenched in anti-vax narratives, and will become extremely aggressive in response to challenges.

Second, understand that in this case, saying nothing is better than saying the wrong thing. Becoming hostile, or expressing judgment (no matter how well-deserved) is likely to entrench them more into these conspiracies than it is to make them see reason, making them less likely to be receptive to even gentle challenges in future.

Third, understand that change isn't something that happens after a single conversation. It takes repeated discussions, and a lot of building up trust, to start making people change their minds.

So, then, how do you change an anti-vaxxer's mind?

First step: understand why anti-vaxxers feel this way. This can be summed up in one word: fear. Irrational fear, but fear nonetheless. There are a lot of reasons they may have gotten to this point. They may be deeply distrustful of physicians due to past experiences. People of color in the United States are very prone to vaccine hesitancy and refusal, not because of conservative views, but because of the racist history of the medical institution- in particular, the atrocity known as the Tuskegee experiments. Some, particularly those in the United States, are very prone to distrusting the medical-industrial complex, and extend that skepticism to vaccinations as well. Some may have encountered misinformation, such as the infamous Wakefield farce, which convinced them that children were in danger of being autistic (which is still heavily stigmatized) if they became vaccinated. There are also other reasons, but these are the most common.

And how do we deal with other fears people have? Empathy.

How to have an empathetic conversation about this issue:

First, you need to do just that: have a conversation. Ask open-ended questions, and listen to the answers no matter how much they anger or upset you. The most important and most simple: "what are your reasons for not trusting vaccines?" Other good questions are, "why do you feel this way?" "Are you interested in receiving information about vaccines from me?" "How can I help you work through these difficult feelings?" You need to then tailor your conversation according to how they respond.

You need to build trust with the person you are talking to. If you are in a position of privilege over them, particular if you are white and they are black, you cannot attempt to speak over their concerns about bias in the medical community. This also includes disabled people who no longer trust doctors to have their best interests at heart. Empathize with their concerns, don't erase them, and then segue into the facts. "This is an unfortunate reality, and should never have happened to you. May I share a counterpoint about (specific issue), with the understanding that this does not erase the systemic biases in the medical community?" It is worth noting that breakdowns in trust in the doctor-patient relationship are a key factor that leads to the development of antivax attitudes. This person already feels they can't trust their doctors or the government, and they have, in desperation, turned to a community of other afraid people to be heard. If you remember this, you will have a chance here to gain their trust and be an ambassador for vaccination.

Another way of building trust is to emphasize to them that your goals are aligned. They want what is best for them and their kids, even if they are misguided, and so do you. One rhetorical strategy (that is, incidentally, also used by lawyers in jury trials) is to ascribe positive traits to this person, and then challenge them to live up to it. "I know you love little Tommy very much, and want him to be healthy. I want him to be, too. I am sure, since you care for him deeply, you will look into this issue thoroughly."

That last point is also key. You need to start small, as counterintuitive as it might seem. Don't come right out and say for them and their children to get vaccinated; they need to make that decision by themself. Instead, say that you have information about vaccines that you would like to share with them. It is especially good if you have something saved for a particular claim they made. If, for example, they believed the Wakefield study, there are many refutations out there you can show them. If they are concerned about mercury, you can explain that the kind of mercury in vaccines isn't the "bad" mercury that we find in tuna- and even if it was, there is less mercury in the vaccines than there is in tunafish. Keep it focused, and keep it neutral; one claim at a time.

It is very likely that they will respond to you with a study of their own. Read it carefully before responding. "I noticed that the Wakefield paper has since been retracted. Here is a peer-reviewed study that reaches a different conclusion; it seems worth examining."

You need to show that you are actively listening to what they have to say, and that you appreciate them talking to you. "Thank you for trusting me to talk about this." "Thank you for showing open-mindedness." No vague-posting about anti-vaxxers, no eye-rolling, and no distractions while talking to them.

Another key for showing empathy is to make sure you acknowledge the root of each claim. You don't need to repeat it like a parrot- but for example, using the mercury example above, "it is understandable that you fear mercury! Normally, it is a dangerous substance. Thankfully, there are different kinds of mercury, and the one that can make you sick, methylmercury isn't the same as ethylmercury, which is the one found in vaccines."

Don't start right with debunking myths; always begin with an affirming statement ("that must be scary" or "I know there is a lot of information out there; you must be overwhelmed trying to sort through everything!") before pivoting to correcting misinformation.

Keeping your tone positive in nature is also very helpful. You don't have to be shooting rainbows from your mouth/keyboard, but positive statements help build trust and make people more receptive.

Remember that debunking myths is only one part of what you are seeking to do here. If the person you are talking to starts to feel like you only want to hear their thoughts so you can correct them, they will stop sharing them. No one likes to talk with someone who only wants to be right, even if they ARE right!

Unfortunately, these steps may not work. Sometimes, despite your best efforts, the person won't be receptive. That's okay. Simply tell them again that you are here if they have questions, and you wish for the best for them and their children. Let them come to you if they change their mind.

And please remember, above all else: while these are important conversations, you are never obligated to accept verbal abuse. You have a right to have your boundaries respected just as much as they do. If the person you are talking to name-calls, uses bigoted language, mocks you, wishes bad things on you, etc, it is okay to walk away. Maybe they'll be ready to hear it one day, maybe not, but you don't need to set yourself on fire to keep anyone warm here.

I hope that this guide helps you if you are interested in discussing vaccine hesitancy and refusal! Please let me know if you need anything clarified.

[heartbeatbookclub]

I was looking at a few posts about autism (as one does) and it just suddenly clicked into place a fundamental thing about Yuri's character that I'd been grasping at, but hadn't really been able to adequately identify. I still have a much longer and more thorough analysis going through a whole lot of my thoughts on Yuri's character and her experience of autism that i'm working on (of which this will likely be a component), but I thought I'd share this separately just to emphasize.

Post I saw which made this click for me was making fun of the fact that most media depicting impaired empathy in autistic characters explicitly depicts them with this unflappable confidence of never having been rejected by people they love. The crux of this is that in actual reality, autistic people almost always have that experience at some point, for some behavior, for reasons they don't really understand. "There is an invisible line where people will get sick of you, and you have no warning of when you're about to cross it." So frequently, autistic people attempt to ride a razor thin edge, walking on constant eggshells to desperately attempt to avoid crossing that line.

Very often autistic people will attempt to avoid doing anything at all which could be considered weird, or off-putting, and will try their absolute hardest to do things in a way that is acceptable to other people, sometimes to the point of outright suppressing their emotions, because they are afraid that they'll say something just wrong enough that the people they care about will push them away, and they don't understand WHY it happened, but they know it's THEIR fault. Sometimes masking is fighting to appear aloof all the time because you can't regulate your emotions in a way that is acceptable to other people.

And holy fucking Jesus, that fits the exact mold of what I've been trying to talk about with the particular way Yuri's anxieties manifest.

It really feels to me like Yuri has this constant fear of breaking the "rules" of socializing, despite not really understanding what those rules even are. She's constantly afraid of saying something wrong, when she doesn't even know what wrong would be, she's just sure everyone ELSE will know it when they hear it. I think a huge part of her social anxiety comes from her own understanding of herself as a very weird person who doesn't really get a lot of how to socialize, and it seems to me like she's probably dealt with her fair share of social rejection and isolation based on those traits. She then felt she had to take responsibility for those traits, probably because it's the one thing she can change, and she is the one common denominator in all of these bad situations (This is something which is pretty common, actually! "Everyone else can socialize just fine, and I have so much difficulty with it! I must just be broken in some way. I have to try super hard to be normal to make friends!")

I think a big part of why it's so apparent in the Literature Club is because she really thinks she's found a place where she can make friends in spite of all of her issues, so when she starts...being herself, and receives even the smallest HINT of pushback, she overcorrects and tries to rein all of herself in to fix her "mistake", because she really wants to make friends here, and doesn't want them to reject her as well.

She's had this experience of others pushing her away for being weird so often that, coupled with her acknowledged trouble for reading situations, when anybody responds poorly to something and she recognizes it, she immediately overcorrects out of fear of being an annoying burden to everyone around her, and that "correction" consists of suppressing herself into being "normal" (or at least "less weird"), because she believes nobody could actually like her just for being who she is. There's something wrong with her fundamentally, and to make friends, for people to like her and want to be around her, she has to "fix" herself.

it's just, like...

it's really hard for me to interpret Yuri's character that doesn't involve her being somewhere on the spectrum, bros. she's written with such delicately constructed autistic coding, despite the appearance of just being a hackneyed weird girl visual novel trope. she deserves the world.......