#klassje too but not by much

[geezmarty]

disco elysium sketches...this game has taken over my brain

[unoisveimved-un-proffesional]

(Warning: Disco Elysium spoilers) One of the greatest twists in all of fiction is learning that René is a fucking tsundere, and it, it really recontextualizes his interactions with Gaston, because he's not just a little gay on the side, they never say that, they say "It's him." The source is Gaston. And that is like, holy shit. It's so sad to, because Gaston never finds out. You notice after René is gone Gaston is not happy anymore, in fact he's really kind of depressed now that his buddy is gone, his super secret admirer, who threw nothing but insults at him, up until the day he went and passed away. Tragic old man yaoi real in Disco Elysium.

(gawking over this story under cut)

By the way, does anyone else notice the duo theme? Like, René and Gaston, Steban and Ulixes, Harry and Kim, what other ones, but they've all got an orange thing going on? Ruby and Klassje? The character dynamics kinda make me sick to think about actually, sick like when you're eating really rich cheese cake with several deep and intricate flavors, it's almost too much, it's so dense! UUUGH! Also like, Joyce, Kim, Dros, and René are all kind of equivalent to their respective ideologies right? Ultraliberal, Moralist, Communist, and Fascist. They're disillusioned soldiers of their ideology, and their respective power shows the state of that ideology, Kim is a cop who enforces the law, Joyce is very rich and influential, René is an old decaying symbol, and Dros is utterly defeated and has no hope, nearly forgotten, and they all hold some feelings and important perspectives on the revolution and the Moralintern's actions. I so badly want to write on the character dynamics, parallels, equivalents, and do deep dives on all of them and how they relate to different themes. I have some basic outlines made of scripts and stuff but like, I want to do something deeper, like a full video series even! That's what it deserves, I need to do it justice.

Like speaking of gay characters, Ruby and Klassje's relationship, and its tragic Yuri, I need to look into that. I mean she threw her under the bus! To the pigs! That is just sad! But she didn't feel like she had a choice and it's just agh! You know? Ugh. I need to schedule some time to write on this...

[sydmarch]

time for round 2 of the disco sexyman bracket!

matchups for round 2:

harry vs dolores

idiot doom spiral vs soona

smoker on the balcony vs ruby

judit vs garte vs tiago

kim vs acele

elizabeth vs novelty dicemaker

joyce vs klassje

titus vs manana

just like last time this post will be the only one to go into any main tags so as not to spam & all of the polls will be tagged just "disco sexyman bracket"

results from round 1 below the cut along w my silly little commentary

it was always gonna end this way, sorry steban

did NOT expect this one to be as hotly debated as it was. cmon roy is like a cool old hippie who gives you free weed & we let a moralist war criminal beat him out? ok :(

i was surprised to see doom spiral get such a lead so fast but once you think about it it just makes sense

sorry egg head but soona has undeniable sex appeal

the BIGGEST sweep out of them all but is anyone surprised?

this one was also obvious. sorry trant but even in universe everyone acknowledges ruby gets mad pussy

THEE most hotly debated and campaigned for of the bunch. even tho garte could technically get the win (and i would love to give it yo my special princess) since they both show as 50% i'm gonna call it a tie both to stay fair and for the drama of it all

#crabsweep was obvious i mean a flexible cryptid man with a sexy accent vs a cop (granted one in a mesh shirt but still)

i'm SORRY lilienne i figured it anyone had a chance against kim it would be a hot milf with a sword. all things considered she didn't lose that badly

even tho i voted for acele i was still kinda shocked by these results

it was never even a question. sorry chester

#NEHASWEEP love that for her

another one that was much more hotly debated than i expected. evrart i'm so sorry you lost. if it's any consolation i'd still rock your shit so hard your lazy eye starts seeing straight.

i'll admit i paired these two up just to cause problems on purpose >:3

THIS WAS ONE OF THE FUNNIEST ONES jean is like, designed in a lab to be a tumblr sexyman and yet he lost on round 1. that is so like him.

this one also shocked me don't get me wrong i'm a huge manana fan too but noid is soooo tumblrina i really thought this one would be closer.

[peanuts-envy]

I’m looking up all the times your reputation can go up with Kim so you can imagine my mental state (clinical homosexual frenzy) here are some of my faves

Goofing off in front of the body:

Kim Kitsuragi - "Daba-doop-doop-dead," he says without a hint of melody. Not one muscle in his face moves.

If you tell him you want to wrestle a bear (the book you find in Evrart's office mentions it)

If you drop a sweet verse on Tommy

If you say you want to have a funeral for your car

If you go on a date with Lillienne and bring him along (??? ?? ???) She says she won’t date Harry until he’s one year sober but I think it’s because he brought another man to their date maybe???

CALLING KIM COOL IN FROM OF JEAN OMG

KEEPING BOTH HIS PENS HAHAHA:

You -  "Kim, do you have a pen?"

Kim Kitsuragi - The lieutenant looks at his blue notebook. *Two* fat, shiny pens hang from the binder, like large calibre bullets on an ammo belt.

Suggestion -  It's downright *incriminating*. He has little choice but to give you one, although he really does not want to.

Kim Kitsuragi - He is not really saying anything. Just standing there -- looking at them.

You - "Fine, I'll just use this crappy pencil..."

Kim Kitsuragi - Absolutely motionless at first, then animated slowly, imperceptibly even, the lieutenant begins to browse his notes again. Leaving you to the case files.

Empathy -  The threat has passed. He is thankful it has passed, and that he's gotten to keep both pens.

Asking Klassje about The Return:

You -  "Miss. What are you waiting for?"

Klaasje (Miss Oranje Disco Dancer) - "You mean here--in Martinaise?" She takes a drag, slow and long...

You -  Nod.

Klaasje (Miss Oranje Disco Dancer) - "I'm waiting for the miracle to happen. It'll take one to get me out of the mess I'm in."

Kim Kitsuragi - "And what would that miracle be?"

Klaasje (Miss Oranje Disco Dancer) - "The Return, of course." She smiles.

If you are mechanically inclined (lots n lots of these No Surprise)

Kim Kitsuragi - "Hang on, you're telling me you remember all these little mechanical details, but you have trouble remembering your name?"

You - "I might not know much, but I *do* know I like motor carriages -- must be a subconscious thing."

Kim Kitsuragi - "Strange... but plausible, I guess." He gives you a quick side-glance and turns to go. "I guess you're a bit of a... torque dork too."

Empathy - He seems to like the idea.

If you critically analyze Dick Mullen at the reading group:

You - "... but in the end Mullen is a reflection of a politico-legal institution that's irreconcilably divided between protecting 'the people' and defending the material interests of capital."

Kim Kitsuragi - The lieutenant doesn't speak, but you believe you detect a slight widening of his eyes, as though he never expected such a cogent thought to emerge from your mouth.

Not even sure how to categorize this one except it calls into question the Pissing Competition motives a little bit because......what would you call this??

You - "Hold on, Kim. I did not know this was a competition."

Kim Kitsuragi - "It isn't. Police work is a *cooperative* sport."

Physical Instrument - There is no challenge without competition. There must be an opponent.

Hand/Eye Coordination - This is clearly a sport for him. Something like archery -- or darts?

You - "It's still about getting hits, right? And not missing?"

Kim Kitsuragi - "That's too *pinball* for me. I just like to get autopsies right on the first try." He makes another note. "Where were we?"

Drama - He's lying.

[nwfairy]

I think the call is real, just old, (spoilers for my theories)

But a major piece thematic piece of Disco Elysium being “haunted by the narrative both literal and figurative” the phone call mirrors the “haunted” buzzer call at the Doomed Shopping District, one that if Kim is there will comment.

The reason that the dialing is so long, is that Harry is literally dialing into the past. Making a phone call across space and time.

So, this goes into my “Dora is dead” theory pile.

There are so many spouses and lovers that die or are dead in this game. Mostly women having lost husbands, and what their lives look like with the passage of grief. (This theory also has Pleisance’s husband as also most likely dead.)

The women, (the washer woman, the netpicker, the working class woman, klassje) have let the loves of their lives go. They grieve, but they go and continue moving forward.

Harry in his grief, can not let Dora go, and thusly deifies her as Dolores Dei. But then there is a clue there as well. As Dolores was murder by her Therrier, a shot to the heart (which is the first death you’ll experience).

In the Dream, she is leaving, taking a plane to somewhere else. She is beautiful and perfect and leaving him behind. Flying into the sky out of elysium.

Harry lies to himself a lot. He will trust the wrong instinct and chase it because it does eventually finds a way around. He wants to live so badly, but to do that means letting the past go— and he loves her too much to do that.

So it is actually my firm belief that Dora is dead, and Harry blames himself for that.

But his mind is too smart, too clever, and for him to function— he must lie to himself and others that she just left. Left him to be in a better place, let him to be with a better man; because she was too perfect to be gone any other way.

The game plays very heavy into portrayals of suicide. In a way that hurts, but is far more accurate than most: it asks the question “why do people hurt themselves?” With the various answers being “because they need to survive or they need a deeper pain alleviated”

The phone call him getting to hear her one more time.



Put me out of my misery. Is the phone call real?

(Disco Elysium spoilers and poll below the cut.)

This has been driving me mad.

I saw this really thought-provoking post on the DE subreddit: Was the phone call with the Ex-Something real, or was it just created by the Pale?

As the original poster says, there are explicit mentions of Dora in the Pale. Does that mean the long-distance call isn't real?

Evidence that it is not real:

The Pale can cause "'entroponetic crosstalk. The one you get in radios and long-distance calls.'"

It can also result in hearing "'the voice of your former lover.'"

We have heard fake calls before, as we do with Tricentennial Electrics in the Doomed Commercial Area.

The number is unusually long, even for a long-distance call.

It seems strange that she would give Harry her new number.

It's also strange that, no matter when you call, she has just woken up. It is always the same time.

Evidence that it is real:

She does not want to talk to us.

She is with someone else.

(Of course, this could be Harry's imagination.)

She responds to whatever we say. For better or for worse.

You can read more proof for/against it in the original post here. Credit to /u/dudu4789 and all the people who responded.

To be honest, it never even occurred to me that the call might not be real. I need to know now. What do you think?

[nonjuxtaposed]

I played through the fascist sidequest in Disco Elysium because I wanted steam achievements, because I wanted to analyze it, and because no one ever seems to do this quest

Since I played through the moralist quest in disco elysium and actually really enjoyed it, I thought it might also be interesting to play through the other ideological quests i disagree with: fascism and ultraliberalism. Only, I figured since that would get me close enough to completing all the steam achievements, I might as well aim for all of them, so I decided to throw in some more goals for myself to maximize the number of achievements I could cram into one run, especially the ones I was really not thrilled about, and oh shit I accidentally made disco elysium into an extremely difficult game. I also found some very interesting dialogue, and tried to do some amateur media analysis. Putting it behind a readmore because I basically wrote an entire article here.

Problems I Made For Myself:

For one thing, the achievements I picked as goals this playthrough were the worst possible combo I could have picked: Both hardcore achievements, both traditionalist achievements, leopard mindset, what body, baddest of the bad cops, and medal dispenser. Here are the problems with that:

-To make sure I got the fascist sidequest, I internalised the fascist thought. Which means every time I choose a fascist dialogue option I lose morale

-Since I lose morale, I need more healing items, but because I'm in hardcore mode everything is 2x the usual price

-To offset this, I decided to do a combined fascist/ultralib run, so sometimes I could choose ultralib options instead and get money

-Another effect of hardcore mode: all of the checks are harder and more likely to fail, so I need plenty of xp, but since I'm avoiding the cryptozoology sidequest to make sure gary is there and also never interacting with the dead body, xp is more limited. So that was a bad choice

-Since I was going for leopard mindset, I needed sky-high electrochemistry (which made the run extremely entertaining) so I was dumping huge amounts of my xp into that instead of something that would be strategically useful and help me not die all the time.

-And because I'm avoiding certain quests, I also get fewer bonuses on checks, which means they're even harder.

Now, I also wanted to test out how few fascist things you could say and still be labeled a fascist by the game and it's surprisingly few. I came up with a character idea for this version of Harry I could stick to: a middle aged white person who doesn't want to be offensive to anyone to their face, but has shitty thoughts and will say shitty things behind closed doors. Basically this unfortunately describes most of my older family members, so it's an easy archetype to keep an image of in my head as I play. So I would have Harry say sexist things if there were no women around, have whatever bigoted thoughts show up as options as long as they're only in his head, and mostly just stick to the more economic things or the stuff about wanting a king again or that foreign powers interfere too much in Revacholian politics (I do actually agree with that last one tbh, and I would argue it can be anti-colonialist, but the game labels it as traditionalist). Whenever I didn't go with a fascist option I picked an ultralib option. Now, since I was avoiding ever dealing with the body, and could never arrest Klassje, Kim was constantly by Harry's side, so he never ended up saying any racist things out loud - the closest options I picked to that were kind of half-agreeing with Measurehead's weird race analysis. To be honest that was a benefit of this combo of goals, because I think if I made Harry say something racist in front of Kim I'd get so sad I'd quit.

What actually happens in this quest though

I'm not like, the best at analysis, or the best at writing, but I did take notes and lots of screenshots to see if ZA/UM had anything particularly unique to say about fascism. I noticed two patterns:

1. The skills most associated with fascism seem to be Conceptualization, Endurance, and Half Light. Additionally, endurance is often associated with guts in this quest. So basically you have a combination of bad feelings and emotions, gut reactions, and imagination/the way you think about the world.

I also noticed that since traditionalism leads to low morale, you tend to have a debuff to Volition most of the time, unless you're constantly healing. Again, I'm more of an amateur at analyzing media but it seems like the connection between a lack of volition and far-right politics might be meaningful. If anyone has any insights on this please add on.

2. During the quest, Harry becomes obsessed with returning to the past and must speak to the traditionalists in town. A consistent theme is that Harry is asking them how to return to the past, but they all completely deny being obsessed with the past. Rene clearly is obsessed with the past, but he chastises Harry for wanting to go back to a better time. It seems like he's punishing himself for his regrets in some ways - if you have high Pain Threshold, it chimes in with an observation about the nature of his feelings for Gaston, that they're probably not platonic, but that Rene is definitely the one who crushed any chance of that. Throughout this conversation, he actually reminds me of the deserter: bitter, lonely, and unable to move on.

Measurehead is the interesting one, and the best part of this quest. He absolutely looks down on Harry's views, and also denies having any interest in going back to the past. He instead talks about the future. He admires how "Kojko" women (I think that's a slur? and I would love to replace it with a different word but I'm not sure which region it refers to) are down with casual sex and polyamory, which he thinks is incredibly innovative. He also refuses to share his sexual secrets with Harry, but does drop some hints. He belongs to the Semen Retention Society - he doesn't want to accidentally get one of his "babes" pregnant because that would be race-mixing, but he also believes that not ejaculating makes him more powerful. Basically he's into stuff that reminds me of redpill, mgtow, pick up artists, etc. He even namedrops this one specific guy who sounds like probably some kind of PUA teacher hack. It's actually pretty hilarious.

MEASUREHEAD - "The Semen Retention Society. It does not surprise me that you know nothing about it. Masturbators Anonymous is probably an organisation you're more familiar with."

"The S.R.S. is a closed group of strong-willed individuals who have dedicated themselves to building up strategic semen reserves. It takes iron will and razor-sharp focus. Far beyond your spiritual potential."

VOLITION [Medium: Success] - An enormous expenditure of willpower to build up strategic semen reserves? You had me at *willpower*. Let's do it!

ELECTROCHEMISTRY [Medium: Success] - Life is all about pleasure... why deny it?

YOU - "Hold on, did I get this right -- you never actually climax during sexual intercourse?!"

MEASUREHEAD - "This is an over-simplification. But yes."

What I found really interesting though, was his opinions on reproduction:

MEASUREHEAD - "We are life. Life is sexuality. Sexuality is *in competition* with sexuality - the sexuality of other organisms. The point of any competition is to win.:

YOU - "Win what exactly?"

MEASUREHEAD - "The future." He lets it set in for a while.

"In a biological sense, the man whose essence, whose genetic blueprint, is passed on to the most hosts, down to the most generations, fulfils his biological purpose to the greatest extent. This is the love victory."

YOU - "Wait, what about your Semen Club?"

MEASUREHEAD - "Semen Retention *Society*," he corrects you. "I told you, this is a simplification. Climax is not *required* for victory. In fact it is discouraged. A true man *retains* his essence."

"It is far more masculine to pass on a blueprint of your mind and your spirit than your flesh. Women give birth to flesh and men give birth to spirit. Spirit is immortal."

So, Measurehead believes that ideas are more important than genetics, which is interesting coming from someone who conceives of the world as a struggle between races. But I suppose if he views race as a set of immutable categories, then ideology could be seen as a way to spread beyond it. I think it also aligns with the right's active recruitment strategies - nazis, terfs, etc actively trying to spread their ideas to as many people as possible.

The best part is the advice he gives Harry, which I'll just let speak for itself:

RHETORIC [Medium: Success] - But isn't he a traditionalist?! Why does he keep talking about the future...

YOU - "Wait, I thought you were a traditionalist..."

MEASUREHEAD - "I am not a *traditional* traditionalist. Life on this planet does not move backwards. The ivy moves forward, covering the whole door. The flowers grow outward, covering the whole meadow. Nothing grows *against* time and space. Only along its laylines can nature progress."

YOU - "I'm still convinced the babes were more *faithful* in the past. They stuck with their men."

MEASUREHEAD - "It seems to me you are in need of a warning. Here it is: It is absolutely possible to return to the past. You just need to take a ticket to Sereglee Island, the southernmost of the Semenine Archipelago, also known as Ile du Fantôme, and walk into pale."

"Let it dither and rot your mind. Then you can marinate forever in your irreversable defeat. While race enefies laugh at your motionless, gap-mouthed corpse."

YOU - "Why do I have the feeling there's a catch..."

MEASUREHEAD - "There is no catch. You will get what you want. The ghoul is a cruel master, but it is not pale. Pale takes your mind and rejects the flesh. It is capricious and terrifying, like a virgin. You will lose your courage before her face."

"Go have a look," he gestures toward the intersection. "The white-haired protein mass at the intersection. A lorry driver. Impossible to miss her if you're even a half-decent cop."

YOU - "Paledriver? Yes, I've already talked to her."

MEASUREHEAD - "Go talk to her again. Ask her about pale. See what a relentless obsession with the past does to man."

Final Thoughts

So we wind up with less of a hopeful plot than usual, more of a plain cautionary tale about getting attached to the past. I have to wonder if this is intended as a message for players who are genuinely harboring right-wing ideas, because based on the reviews I've read a lot of them seem to really hate this game and would never make it this far. While playing this quest, I thought about whether or not I would recommend it to someone who I'm worried might be going down that path - what kind of experience would they have, would it impact their views? - and I never really came to a good conclusion.

I'm not going to get into the other plot points of this quest, as they're less interesting to me personally and I want to leave some things unspoiled in case people do want to play through it themselves. I'm also not technically done yet, since I finished this particular quest but didn't actually get to the end of the game yet. I'm not anticipating any major changes, but we'll see. Maybe I'll add onto this later.

[gaycrpg]

Omg I love your Ruby and Klassje art I saw some from the discord before too and I’m 🥺❤️ my wlw heart

ahhh thank you so much!! 💖💖💖💖💖

[unoisveimved-un-proffesional]

Absolute Brain raaaaawwwwwttttt

Klassje is like Harry's Virgil, his Shadow The Hedgehog, Jetstream Sam. In a gameplay sense, she's the rival character. The one always just a step ahead of you until your big confrontation. In that "Not really a villain" category of antagonist. Like there are certain characters that while morally complicated, still fill the villain role in terms of stories and games. Joyce, Evrart, Dros, The Krenel Mercenaries, they're the closest things DE has to traditional villains and do fill that role. Observing the story and characters from that lens, Klassje is the rival antagonist. Almost a villain but too much like you, too friendly with you and vulnerable to you. They're someone on your level, and a test of your skills, quite literally in fact.

Klassje as a character puts to the test what kind of cop you are by giving you the option to arrest her or let her go, arresting her may lead to her being caught and killed, and letting her go gives post-Tribunal changes that are beneficial. She's also a foil for Harry, like she's an attractive skinny young white blonde woman who smokes, like Dora right? But she's also a self described "Disco Holdover" and is using a fake name, getting pilled up to avoid her worries, she's like Harry. She knows it to, knows it better than Harry does just how similar they are even though they find themselves on such different sides. She's the rival character! The foil to the main character and mid-game test of your skills and priorities. She's also one third of the murder case. The other third is the hanged man, which I'd also say kind of fits the role of rival character in that, Harry obviously sees himself in the hanged man. Not in Lely, not in the person who was once alive, but the bloated corpse of that person, the victim, and it's also an early game obstacle you have to deal with, combat in a way.

Of course the writing is more complicated than "Here's our party with the Leader, Tank, Emotional Support, Lancer, and our Main Character Mirror Rival Character" it's much more in depth and complex than that, but also interwoven so no character is entirely really their own character, they're pieces of everyone else's life and everyone is caught up in their stories. They're all the main character because they're written like their own characters that their own story revolves around. Hell you can feel more of a side character in the lives of all these complicated people even as the player. The Working Class Woman, Billie Méjean, is a perfect example of that because she's like the archetypal video game NPC side-side-side-character who you harass with your main character shenanigans, and she gives you 2 quests, the Spirit Bird quest and the Missing Husband case, the Missing Husband case in particularly is incredibly humbling because it goes from making her a side-character/quest giver into just an average, complicated and living person. Puts you and Harry in a kind of awkward and very real position where you only have bad news to offer.

Disco Elysium isn't just an awesome game, it's a loving subversion of RPG tropes, of power fantasy and of players and non-player characters, and it uses the set up of a game and those expected tropes to constantly subvert you because it reminds you both simultaneously "This is practically a living breathing world" and also "This is a game and a written story" without compromising either, by making them part of each other. It does this by disguising video game elements in people and set pieces. Jean Luc is a wall you have multiple ways of getting around, Evrart Claire and his chair is a boss fight, the Insulindian Phasmid is the final boss, and the final boss is just talking to a bug but it is the final boss and Dros is its first phase.

Disco Elysium is several books, literally several books in a game, but it is also an incredible game because it uses the roots of RPG's and infuses them into something completely different from any RPG you may be deeply familiar with. The dragons and castles and princesses and knights that inspired the genre have been spun into abstract forms and then into grounded realistic depictions of people and concepts. It isn't just a book disguised as a game, it's gaming taken full circle. Books used to be games, and now the game is a book games inspired by gamebooks that inspired by books.

It kind of reminds me of Undertale but in a much less obvious way. Undertale is as the youtuber would title it "A Subversive Masterpiece" because it is. It's a subversive commentary on our relationships with games and the stories in them. We all know monster kind are the victims now, but did we expect that going in? Because it's presented in the prologue very apolitically, deceptively apolitically, and uses your biases set from other games to expect the monsters to be straightforward enemies, not genocide victims! It's subversions all the way, by ramping everything up to be super gamey and then twisting it around. It takes every chance to fuck with your expectations without breaking your investment. It's all about you to, you're the star of the show and that makes you kind of uncomfortable. Even though you're the star though, your player character is almost characterless, almost. Whereas in DE the world is almost painfully indifferent to you, every character is all fleshed out and has a lot going on with them and you don't even know your name. It slowly takes you out of your place as "The main character" and breaks down your main character syndrome by making the main character just a character and every other character just as complicated and interesting, not more or less so. It subverts you too, without even really trying just by being so unique, and when it really starts to feel like the world is cold and indifferent to you you realize you have a friend and you hear the very spirit of the world you're in say I love you and it's beautiful because you don't expect it, you don't expect such heart touching things from such an otherwise cold and gross experience. You're made not to expect it!

Disco Elysium and Undertale are Opposite But The Same games to me, they're games about games and games about life in opposite ways to each other. They're great games, story games, art games. The most a game can be, and still not even yet the pinnacle, proof of concepts! Disco Elysium may never get its Deltarune though...

All in all, Disco Elysium is a great game.