#kishinev
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beenasarwar · 2 months ago
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Thirty years after 1984 Sikh carnage, 'Kultar's Mime' underscores truths about victimhood and violence
“Rano” – painting by Evanleigh Davis “Innocent victims are the same, regardless of how they worship God and what tongues they speak” – Sarbpreet Singh  A dramatic production of Sarbpreet Singh’s poem ‘Kultar’s Mime’ is being performed to acclaim in the USA and Canada, and will be in India at the end of the month. Here’s the link to my article in Scroll.in; text below with photos, links and dates…
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aviarama · 10 months ago
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argrigory · 1 year ago
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Chisinau 20.08.2023
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deborahdeshoftim5779 · 5 months ago
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Theodor Herzl's achievement of encouraging the Jews to reconstitute and revive the Jewish homeland of Israel has to rank as one of the greatest acts of emancipation in history.
Having observed the acceleration of antisemitism in Europe, from the false imprisonment and scapegoating of Alfred Dreyfus, to the Kishinev Pogrom of 1903, Herzl determined that tolerance of the Jews was only temporary, but that the Jews could overcome it if they coalesced as a nation again.
Herzl's understanding of the problem of antisemitism would be borne out decades after his death, culminating in the Nazi extermination of six million Jews between 1933 and 1945. Three years after this dark scar upon history, the State of Israel declared independence on May 15, 1948. Weeping Holocaust survivors were included in the audience of those who listened to Israeli Prime Minister David ben Gurion announce the birth of Israel.
Herzl's ideas contradict the many slanders against Zionism popular among the supposedly "enlightened" liberal class. Far from seizing land, Herzl proposed the establishment of a Jewish State with consent from the international community. That consent was duly provided as early as 1920 at San Remo, where the international powers acknowledged Jewish rights of settlement as being based upon historic presence in and ownership of the then British Mandate of Palestine. That right was further recognised in 1947, when the British Mandate expired and was handed over to the League of Nations.
And while the "enlightened" (predominantly) left-wing circles keep claiming that American Zionists in particular are right-wing, the truth is rather different. Unfortunately for the left-wing anti-Zionists, Herzl and other early Zionists were avowed socialists. The kibbutz system in Israel consists of multiple families sharing and cultivating the same land, with profits distributed equally. It wasn't until the late 1970's that right-wing parties came to power in Israel, and it wasn't until even later that Israel established its reputation as a start-up nation and achieved its now famous economic boom.
And while "enlightened" left-wing academic and social circles disgustingly claim that Zionism is equivalent to white supremacy (a claim they repeat verbatim from the Soviet-Palestinian terrorist alliance of the 1960s and 1970s), Herzl himself was a staunch opponent of persecution and discrimination against black people.
Said Herzl:
There is still one other question arising out of the disaster of nations which remains unsolved to this day, and whose profound tragedy, only a Jew can comprehend. This is the African question. Just call to mind all those terrible episodes of the slave trade, of human beings who, merely because they were black, were stolen like cattle, taken prisoner, captured and sold. Their children grew up in strange lands, the objects of contempt and hostility because their complexions were different. I am not ashamed to say, though I may expose myself to ridicule for saying so, that once I have witnessed the redemption of the Jews, my people, I wish also to assist in the redemption of the Africans.
Notice how Herzl applied his Zionist beliefs in emancipating the Jews to handling the problem of racial discrimination. This directly contradicts fashionable claims pushed by the Soviets and the Arab block at the UN in 1975, with their shameful 'Zionism is racism' Resolution. Yet this fact is ignored by the anti-Zionist propaganda factories, and not even promoted widely by Zionists.
(Similarly, Chaim Weizmann, the first President of Israel, stressed that the Jews had not come to displace the Arabs, but to cultivate the land alongside them. He notably made a symbolic pact with the Arab leader, Emir Feisal (of the Arab Revolt against the Turks). Notably-- and this is devastating to modern anti-Zionist rhetoric- Feisal was sympathetic to the Zionist cause, noting that the Jews had also suffered imperialist oppression and were right in claiming their emancipation through Zionism. In his 1919 letter to Chaim Weizmann, he said, "We will wish the Jews a hearty welcome home.' (Emphasis mine.) You will almost never hear this discussed in anti-Zionist "intellectual" circles, because it destroys claims that Jewish immigrants to Palestine were foreign interlopers and merely white European colonisers like those who carved up Africa and Asia.)
The anti-Zionists enjoy pointing out that Herzl's ideas weren't popular with many Jews in the late 19th century. But then anti-Zionists often anachronistically shove their own slanderous view of Zionism into the mouths of those very Jews.
For example, religious Jews believed the homeland should be rebuilt, but only on the return of the Jewish Messiah. Other Jews believed that plans to rebuild the Jewish homeland would lead to a reduction of Jewish rights in other nations. Still other Jews believed that the homeland should be built, but it should have a religious character. Herzl and other Zionists, like ben Yehudah and Jabotinsky, were avowed secularists and atheists.
Note that being critical of Zionism in the 19th century was not synonymous with believing that the Jews had no right to rebuild a homeland there under any circumstances (which is what modern anti-Zionists believe). And note also that these criticisms provided by Jews of the time did not include any reference to any country of Palestinian Arabs. There was no such country.
There was a territory that was under Ottoman Turk authority during this time, which probably explains Herzl's belief that the Jews should appeal to the great powers for permission to build a state. It was a largely barren territory, often neglected by the Arabs because of its desolation, and ridden with malaria.
T.E. Lawrence, whose sympathies lay entirely with the Arabs, was amazed that the Jews were farming this land and said, "The sooner the Jews farm it all the better: their colonies are bright spots in a desert." (Korda, M., 2010)
The al-Aqsa mosque, currently used as a propaganda tool by the Palestinian Arabs against Israel, as well as fuelling Islamic terrorism by the PLO and Hamas in particular, was largely abandoned and surrounded by junk in the late 19th century.
The Arabs at the time were, by their own repeated public declarations, Syrians. They had fought the Turks during World War I for the right to built an Arab state with its capital in Damascus, a plan that was obviously scuppered by the Sykes-Picot Agreement. (So you can see how the Balfour Declaration became a convenient scapegoat for pre-existing Arab anger with the British.)
Furthermore, Jews were also Palestinians in the early 20th century. For example, the future Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir was issued with a Palestinian passport prior to 1948. The flag of Palestine in 1917 was a Star of David, and organisations with the word 'Palestine' were often Jewish, The Palestine Post being one such example.
So it's time for anti-Zionists to stop hijacking the opinions of Jews in the late 19th century and early 20th century, especially since the acceleration of antisemitism and the Holocaust turned those objections to widespread agreement that rebuilding the Jewish homeland was necessary.
While there are Jews who are anti-Zionists, including fanatics like the pro-terrorist Jews of the Neturei Karta, the ideas of anti-Zionism, which paint Israel as an inherently racist, colonial enterprise, do not reflect the diversity and complexity of Jewish opinion on the Zionist question in the late 19th century. And anti-Zionists aren't interested in Jewish opinion, anyway, else they would have reverted to fair criticism of Israel, rather than demanding that the Jews be made stateless while the Arabs receive yet another country.
The more anti-Zionists fuel an unprecedented surge in antisemitism worldwide, the more Herzl's prophetic warnings about Europe's tolerance towards the Jews are borne out. This is the unanswerable point for anti-Zionists, who have never lifted a finger to help Jews living in other nations. For example, the Houthi terrorists that pro-Palestinian mobs and left-wing journalists are whitewashing and praising expelled almost all Jews from Yemen. In fact, one of the first things the Houthis did after seizing power was to visit the Jewish quarters and issue threats.
Where were the anti-Zionists, who insist that Jews were perfectly living fine in other nations and had no need to move to Israel? Yemen's Jewish population had a history stretching back at least 1500 years, probably closer to 2000 years, and contrary to anti-Zionists' mendaciously claiming that Israel's Jews are all "white European colonisers" with no connection to the "indigenous" Palestinian Arabs, Israel's culture has been heavily influenced by the Yemenite Jews, from Hebrew pronunciation to cuisine.
Why didn't the anti-Zionists call on the Houthis to stop ethnically cleansing Yemen of its Jews? Instead, they are out in the streets, cheering for the ethnic cleansers while accusing Israel, the only country to bend over backwards to give Yemenite Jews sanctuary, of ethnic cleansing. When Ethiopia began persecuting its Jews, the anti-Zionists were again silent. Israel, on the other hand, successfully conducted a heroic rescue of Ethiopia's Jews in secret. Yet anti-Zionists are silent about Ethiopia's antisemitic repressions and loud about accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing.
Classic Soviet-style projection.
The fruit of Zionism as envisioned by Theodor Herzl and others is clear: the emancipation of the Jews from oppression, the restoration of Jewish national rights, and the establishment of a free and prosperous nation worthy of being compared to Western civilisation.
The fruit of anti-Zionism is also clear: the desire to make the Jews stateless-- but nobody else; the support of terrorist enemies who desire the extermination of the Jews, and the intellectual legitimisation of antisemitism worldwide in order to guilt trip and blackmail the Jews into agreeing to permanent statelessness.
You decide which you will support.
I know where I stand.
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Y'all I can't believe I missed Theodor Herzl's Birthday (May 2, 1860). Happy belated birthday to Chozeh HaMedinah
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screamingfromuz · 1 year ago
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I have been hearing people saying that Hamas attack, and any attack by Palestinians toward Israeli civilians is justified because of the fact that Israel stool their land and is oppressing them. and I always think it is so fucking stupid, because by that logic, The Jewish people will be justified in murdering half of the planet. because we have over 2000 years of abuse we suffered from the world, including but not restricted to: Murder, rape, humiliation, mass murder, forced deportation, stealing of property, imprisonment, harassment...
you don't see Jewish people calling for mass destruction of Europe and Arab countries on the regular do you?
So, when I hear people using the suffering of civilians to justify more suffering of civilians (and yes, I am talking to both sides here), I feel like calling bullshit, because that is what put us here in the fucking first place!
Palestinians were angry that the Jews were moving in and getting more land, so they attacked, and the Jews retaliated, so they retaliated, and then British left and the Jewish community declared itself as Israel, and the Arab world saw that as an attack, so they attacked and Israel retaliated causing the Nakba, so hundreds of thousand of Arab Jews were expelled from there home and fled to Israel as refugees making Israel bigger and more protective, so the Arab world attacked, and Israel fought back and won again, this time taking over a mass of land not knowing what to do with the people, The Palestinians still angry at what they see as land theft attacked and sent terrorist into Israel, so Israel retaliated, so Palestinians retaliated, so Israel tightened security in retaliation, so the Palestinians attacked more, so Israel attacked back...
and now after we did enough eye for an eye we are stuck in this situation where both sides are saying it was self defense (and they are both right because life is fun like that), but looking on it it was just more violent response each time. and maybe using your hurt to justify hurting others is the problem? and maybe you should stop encouraging it?
And maybe, we should just fucking admit that those actions are fucking wrong? Can we? and dear world, can you stop fanning the fucking flames?
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anthropologistfromentropy · 4 months ago
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My swordfighter OC. Her girlfriend is a professor of chemistry and a socialist revolutionary, making bombs to fight the Black Hundreds (who were anti-Ukraine as well as antisemitic and anti-communist)
Women with swords. You agree. Reblog.
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vaspider · 4 months ago
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Hey, you reblogged something a little while ago from a blog called jewishlivesmatter which seems to equate advocating for Palestine with antisemitism and regularly posts misleading images of protests to paint pro-Palestinian people in a bad light, and I mean…. The name alone is enough to be suspicious of, since it’s appropriating the Black Lives Matter movement. Just wanted to let you know in case you weren’t aware.
If you're going to follow Jewish bloggers, you're going to have to get used to the idea that interacting with someone doesn't mean that we agree with everything that person says. Interaction does not imply endorsement of everything someone's ever said.
Jewish tradition encompasses and indeed makes essential the concept of disagreeing fervently with people on extremely vital issues and remaining in community with them. I know that this is extremely at odds with the online leftist position that you have to dig through someone's entire archive and remain "mentally pure," but yeah. We do that. Again: interaction does not imply endorsement of everything someone's ever said.
The rabbi who oversaw my conversion, with whom I am very good friends, is an ardent Zionist. I have a lot of Israeli friends. A lot of my local Jewish friends are deeply non-Zionist or anti-Zionist. I don't agree with any of them 100% about anything. We argue about a lot of things pretty much all the time. Interaction does not imply endorsement of everything someone's ever said.
But I'm wondering which of the two things of theirs I've reblogged that you find objectionable:
Is it this one talking about blatant antisemitism and pogrom language on the left?
Or is it this one documenting exterminationist graffiti in our nation's capital?
Because, uh. ... yeah.
Plus, that blog is a group blog run by multiple Jewish women per its header. On any given subject, I guarantee the runners of that blog have at least five different opinions. You aren't going to get Tumblr-leftist-approved levels of orthodoxy (in its literal meaning of "right thought") out of any group of Jews.
At the point when we're talking about posts dealing directly with documenting extremely antisemitic language at protests and graffiti saying, "Hitler had a point," this ask comes off as concern-trolling, and if that's not what you intended, well, I guess that's something for you to think about, but this is the end of this conversation.
[Note to the hate-stalking weirdos out there: there are no hidden meanings in this post about what my "real" feelings about I/P are. I'm still not telling you, and if you think you know, no, you don't.]
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girlactionfigure · 6 months ago
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What Happens When You Can’t Simply Arrest the Jews For Defending Themselves?
by Seth Mandel
The morning after Easter Sunday in 1903, Yehiel Pesker went to his shop at the Kishinev market to inspect for damage. The previous day, the early rumblings of a pogrom had unsettled the city. On his way back home, he saw about 200 Jews armed with clubs and even a few guns—the second wave of one of history’s most notorious pogroms would come that day and Jews wanted to be prepared. When the pogromists came there was a standoff, until the police intervened against the Jews and the deadly violence continued.
Although these Jews merely presented a desire to defend themselves should they be attacked, and although this was one brief moment on the second day of a three-day blood-riot that would shock the world, “local antisemites and their sympathizers,” according to historian Steven J. Zipperstein, tried to argue that this was an escalation by the Jews and therefore the victims were really to blame for the pogrom. Elsewhere in town, a nearly 60-year-old Jewish man fought off four attackers, who then spread the rumor that a Jew had murdered Christians. For some, then, a literal blood libel in the middle of an extended massacre was transformed into the origin story of the whole riot.
“In arguments made by defense attorneys at the trials of pogrom-related crimes, Sunday’s rioting was dismissed as a ruckus that would quickly have come to an end… had Jews not overreacted,” writes Zipperstein. “In this version it was the all-but-unprovoked aggression of Jews and subsequent rumors of attacks on a church and the killing of a priest that set in motion the unfortunate but, under the circumstances, understandable violence.”
That all may sound ridiculous, because few pogroms are better known than Kishinev and because it had such a profound effect on history: It shaped the perspectives of important Zionist figures and it alarmed the world, even becoming an element of the civil-rights fight in America as an example of why racial and ethnic minorities needed protection from the state enshrined in law.
But leave out the names of people and places, and you’d be describing the response to Hamas’s October 7 massacre. The Jews had it coming; the attacks were essentially an act of self-defense; it would’ve been a minor event had the Jews not escalated by defending themselves.
The Russian police director tried to argue at least for moral equivalence, based on these lies, between the Kishinev Jews and their murderers. You can hear a direct echo of this in Karim Khan, prosecutor at the International Criminal Court, filing applications for arrest warrants for both Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas terrorist leader Yahya Sinwar: “if we do not demonstrate our willingness to apply the law equally, if it is seen as being applied selectively, we will be creating the conditions for its collapse.” That echo is arguably even louder in the New York Times, which describes the reactions to Khan’s stunt this way: “Mr. Khan’s decision to simultaneously pursue Israeli and Palestinian leaders was criticized by Israeli government ministers and Hamas alike. Both sides questioned why their allies had been targeted instead of their enemies alone.”
Ah yes, both sides. A month after the Hamas attacks, the author Sam Harris denounced this way of thinking on his podcast in a soliloquy that will stand the test of time. The key part:
Of course, the boundary between Anti-Semitism and generic moral stupidity is a little hard to discern—and I’m not sure that it is always important to find it. I’m not sure it matters why a person can’t distinguish between collateral damage in a necessary war and conscious acts of genocidal sadism that are celebrated as a religious sacrament by a death cult. Our streets have been filled with people, literally tripping over themselves in their eagerness to demonstrate that they cannot distinguish between those who intentionally kill babies, and those who inadvertently kill them, having taken great pains to avoid killing them, while defending themselves against the very people who have just intentionally tortured and killed innocent men, women, and yes… babies… If you have landed, proudly and sanctimoniously, on the wrong side of this asymmetry—this vast gulf between savagery and civilization—while marching through the quad of an Ivy League institution wearing yoga pants, I’m not sure it matters that your moral confusion is due to the fact that you just happen to hate Jews. Whether you’re an anti-Semite or just an apologist for atrocity is probably immaterial. The crucial point is that you are dangerously confused about the moral norms and political sympathies that make life in this world worth living.
And in Khan’s case, if you can’t or won’t differentiate between Hamas’s war and Israel’s, you possess a moral deficit that disqualifies you from any position of authority or responsibility over others.
More important, however, is the core idea behind this trend. For most of history you could simply punish Jews for defending themselves, for staying alive. A pathetic puffed-up prosecutor could watch in silence as Jews were murdered and then file charges against “both sides��� as soon as a Jew picked up a club in self-defense. Because the law, you see, must be applied evenly. The world wasn’t going to do anything about Hamas, even after its demonic acts on October 7. A fair prosecutor must wait until there is a Jew to be put in the dock as well. That’s balance. That’s justice.
Karim Khan may be a feeble clown, but he makes an airtight case for the existence of the State of Israel.
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raisans-art · 2 years ago
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The Human Illusion | Interlude 2 (Part 1)
Masterpost / First / Prev / Next
Oh thank god we got a translator. (Or fuckin hell if you’re me, trying to compose these panels)
Romanization under the cut
Enjoy!
Panel 2: (I) hash ahí e, rafentēn-skasheī
Panel 3: (I) ar hisu ī garerkoshu e ahi. (L) u aireta-oshokisu asumi osfarfa au noeh gashurī-no eket u īgīno-ne
Panel 5: (I) a-aio!
Panel 6: (I) noeh gē sork amatō! Noeh gē usoiga shuofa!! U osfarūga sīnno pasaīg, u noeh to ar soroārkna ugh-fu un noeh apashi Kishinev noeh hikūra—
Panel 7: (I) noeh asumi.
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newnitz · 1 month ago
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I live for ex-Soviet Jews giving tankies the Anakin on Mustafar treatment
the Soviet Union was the safest country in the world for Jews and you've internalized zionism and anti communism. they've gotten you on the side of the fascists this easily.
Talking about the safest country for Jews in the 1940s is like talking about the safest state for black people in the 1770s. Again, I was literally born in the Soviet Union, and before I was born many of my great aunts and uncles were murdered in the Soviet Union. My parents were barred from many jobs because discrimination was commonplace. Jews were more tolerated there as a racial group than some other countries sure, but only insofar as we completely assimilated. Imagine saying Canada is a safe place for First Nations people. You gotta understand that just because you like communism it doesn't mean that every country that's ever tried it has been morally pure. Oh and communism is a monetary system while fascism is a governmental one. They aren't actually mutually exclusive.
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deutschland-im-krieg · 4 months ago
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Luftwaffe Ritterkreuz mit Eichenlaub (Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves) award ceremony at the Berghof, 4 April 1944. L-R: 68 victory ace (67 at night) Oberst Werner Streib, 301 victory ace Major Gerhard Gerd Barkhorn, Generalmajor Erich Walther (he and his Fallschirmjäger regiment defended Monte Cassino), 112 victory ace (including 14 four engined bombers) Oberstleutnant Kurt Bühligen, 50 victory ace (31 at night) Oberstleutnant Hans-Joachim Jabs, Oberstleutnant Bernhard Jope (a medium and heavy bomber pilot who took part in sinking the Italian battleship Roma using Fritz X radio controlled guided bombs on 9 September 1943), 109 victory ace (9 with the Legion Condor) Major Reinhard Seiler, Adolf Hitler, 352 victory ace Major Erich Hartmann (blocked by Hitler), 166 victory ace Major Horst Ademeit (MIA 7 August 1944), 133 victory ace Major Johannes Wiese (including 50 IL-2 ground attack aircraft), Wachtmeister Fritz Petersen (air defense commander/flak), Major Doktor Maximilian Otte (a Junkers Ju 87 Stuka pilot with 1,179 combat missions who was KIA 20 May 1944 by Soviet flak during the First Jassy-Kishinev Offensive), 197 victory ace Hauptmann Walter Krupinski. Krupinski was one of the first to fly the Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighter into combat, claiming 2 kills in April 1945 as a member of JV 44 led by 104 victory ace Generalleutnant Adolf Galland
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nameinconcept-blog · 4 months ago
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Photos of Soviet Moldavia from the Soviet Ukrainian photo book "Song of Our Native Land" a book dedicated to the 60-year anniversary of the USSR. 1982
"Kishinev, the capital city of the Moldavian SSR"
"The grape - pride of Moldavia"
"A workshop at the Tiraspol Cotton Combine"
"On the Dnestr"
"Before a wedding"
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eretzyisrael · 1 year ago
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by Avi Lewis
I don’t care that you see us as a criminal state, a terror state, usurpers, baby killers, Christ killers, Khaybar Jews or any other depravity that exists in your mind
Your libels lay the groundwork for our dehumanization. Rings a bell. We will fight it
I don’t care that you’ve inverted the truth by accusing us of genocide
If positions were reversed and Hamas held the power we do now, you’d see what a genocide looks like
I don’t care that you’re angry, boiling and outraged
I don’t care that you’re glued to your TV screens and Telegram channels
I don’t care that you’re mad
I don’t care if you’re out on the street, waving your flag and chanting your slogans
We won’t die silently the way you want us to
For the first time in 2,000 years we are organized, we are motivated and we will defend ourselves
We fight for light over darkness
Morality over evil
Not that it matters to you – but we will stick to the rules and hold the high moral ground not because you expect it from us, but because they are a value for us
We will do so ethically and thoughtfully, for we are the People of the Book
Our power and strength are our necessity, because the alternative for us is:
Be’eri, Kfar Aza, Pittsburgh, Toulouse, Farhud, Hebron, Birkenau, Belzec, Babi Yar, Kristalnacht, Kielce and Kishinev
Do you think for a moment that we would return to that reality just to make you feel a little better?
You are deeply mistaken…
Read it all.
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glassisland · 2 years ago
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"Have you ever retired a human by mistake?"
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Rachael by Ilya Kishinev
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who-canceled-roger-rabbit · 4 months ago
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Russia was in the Soviet Union Now it's Russia, not the Soviet Union Been a long time gone, the Soviet Union Now there's oligarchs in Gorky Park
Everybody in Byelorussia Lives in Belarus and not Byelorussia And if you've got buddies in Kishinev They'll be waiting in Chisinau
Even Leningrad Is Petersburg again Why they changed it, I can't say People just liked it better that way
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pargolettasworld · 2 months ago
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6aRc_XN-EE
Here’s Yossele Rosenblatt, possibly the greatest cantor who ever lived, not singing a liturgical piece.  He’s singing a Yiddish song about a political cause that was probably still fresh and urgent when this recording was made.
The song, composed by Simon Frug and Abraham Bernstein, describes the Kishinev Pogrom of 1903.  In 1903, Easter coincided with the last day of Pesach.  The local antisemitic rag, the most popular newspaper in the area (Kishinev, in what is now Moldova), had been publishing headlines like “Death to the Jews!” for quite some time, and two local children had died in the weeks leading up to Easter.  This of course led the newspaper to spread blood libel.
When Easter Sunday services ended, the people of Kishinev streamed out of the churches and commenced to murdering Jews over two full days of riots.  The news of this spread around the Jewish world like lightning, and Jewish communities in relatively safer areas like the US and the UK started running collection drives for money to help either rebuild the Jewish community of Kishinev or help the Jews emigrate.  
This song was part of the advertising around that financial drive.  It describes the blood running through the streets, mothers crying for murdered children, and the immediate need for shrouds for the dead and food for the living.  It’s very likely that Rosenblatt made this record as part of this fundraising drive.  The great publicity helped bring awareness to the danger threatening the Jews in the Russian Empire at the time -- this pogrom happened roughly two years before my grandfather was born, and around the same time that Fiddler on the Roof is set.
The 1903 Kishinev pogrom was hardly an isolated event.  There was a second pogrom in Kishinev two and a half years later, in 1905, that was part of an organized series of them that lasted for many years and inspired many families, including mine, to nope out of Europe and go to safer places like the US, the UK, the Levant, Argentina, and other countries.
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